The Athletic Hockey Show - Maple Leafs acquire Scott Laughton from Flyers

Episode Date: March 7, 2025

Sean McIndoe and Scott Wheeler breakdown the trade between the Leafs and Flyers, with Toronto finally acquiring a 3rd line centre, with Scott Laughton and a pair of picks coming to the Leafs for prospect Nikita Grebenkin and a protected 2027 1st round pick with Philly retaining 50 percent of Laughton's salary over the next two seasons. Hosts: Sean McIndoe and Scott WheelerExecutive Producer: Chris FlanneryProducer: Jeff Domet Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the Athletic Hockey Show. Hey there, everyone. Welcome to another special trade deadline edition of the Athletic Hockey Show, presented by E-Trade for Morgan Stanley. I am Sean McIndoo. I am with Scott Wheeler, and we are reacting to the single biggest trade of the day because it involves the Toronto Maple Leafs.

As is always the case. We have to steer the conversation back to the Leafs. Shut it down. I mean, we're always asking, how does this affect the Leafs? It's an easy question on this one, because the Toronto Maple Leafs have traded Nikita Grebenken and a conditional 2006 first round pick. We do not know the condition.

We would assume it's top something protected or something like that. They've traded those two assets to the Flyers, and they're getting back Scott Lawton as well as a fourth and a sixth from the Flyers. And the Flyers will be retaining 50% on Lawton's salary. Scott, your initial thoughts on this. Well, my initial thoughts is that it always felt like it was going to come back around this way. We'd heard Luke Cunning and Brandon Tanev and they ran on Braden-Shend and they'd talked on Brock Nelson, but it always felt like Scott Lawton and the Leafs were a natural fit.

He's from here. He played his junior hockey here locally. He fits the sort of identity that they're trying to build under Bradtree living in terms of that scrappy go-getter, physical, competitive type. I think from a leadership standpoint, they probably like what he brings. Everything you hear about Scott Lawton is that he's a beloved teammate, et cetera, et cetera. And it just sort of swats Pontus Holmberg and David Camp lower in the Leafs lineup. And I think where the Leafs want those players in their lineup,

I think they weren't prepared or comfortable to go into the NHL playoffs with David Camp and Pontus Holmberg as their third and fourth line centers. I think that's the right position to, to take on those two players. No, Max Gomi hadn't worked. They flirted yet again with William Nielander for about five seconds or a millisecond. And they never got fully comfortable with any of those players. Calle Yarncrook can play center, but is at the end of the day a natural winger and

has played a lot more wing in his career than he has center. And who knows what Callie Yarncruck is capable of contributing to the Leafs and a playoff run after all of the missed time and the injury history, etc. So this just, I think it slots everybody where they need to be slotted. Lotton becomes the third line center. You move David Kemp down into a more limited role in the fourth line. And the leaps are better today. The precursor obviously was Ryan Reeves going on waivers about 24 hours ago as we record this.

And it was all sort of trending in this direction. Now, we'll see if this is it for the leaps. I would imagine that there's still maybe a move or two out there. Maybe they still consider a Luke Cunnan at a cheaper rate kind of thing. And they're not done. The price is steep, though. And a first round pick is no joke for a, what, a 30 point, 25, 30 point center who can penalty kill and is competitive. That speaks to where the market is at today.

But that's no joke. And Grebenkin, I mean, we can get into Grebenkin. Grabenkin's a great story played with Matt Veimichkov as a linemate at times with Matt Bay Michikov in the Kacheli year ago. So there's a connection there for the flyers in Mietchkov and Krebankin. And a great story, really, over the last three seasons. We've seen Nikita go from obscure prospect to legit KHL player to excellent KHL player, to a standout in training camp and working his way into being a call-up option to a strong start with the

Marleys. It's been a nice little run here for Kribenkine. And now they use what was formerly a late. late round pick and they've they've turned that late round pick into at least an asset that you can use in a trade that gets you some kind of value back the other way. So credit to the least for developing Gruben and credit to Grosgen for putting himself in the position where he's actually a trade commodity of some kind. Yeah, I don't know if this is quite the right way to look at it, but if you view it as sort of Lotton for the first and then Grubankin gets you a fourth and a six, that's, that half of

it is a nice return. Pierre LeBruin reporting that the condition on the first round pick is that it is top 10 protected. So unlikely to come into play, but at least some protection for the Leafs if everything falls apart. I guess here's where I'm at. As a Leafs fan, I have spent the last few days being terrified by some of the rumored asking prices for Brock Nelson, who we saw go to Colorado and got them a really nice return and then Braden Shen. And it sounds like maybe Braden Chen won't happen, period, because the blues are back in the race and he has some trade protection. So I was really kind of gritting my teeth when word leaked out that the Leafs were getting Scott a lot, but we didn't know for how much. given that I don't hate this

it feels very steep but not insanely steep especially for a guy we should point out Scott Lodge's got a year left on his deal that carries a $3 million cap hit but the flyers are going to be eating half of that so you've got a center for this year and next year at 1.5 which is dirt cheap for a guy who can be legitimate three

I guess here's here's my question when it comes to a guy in Scott Lotton that I'm not going to pretend I was super familiar with until suddenly he became one of those names that was everywhere at the deadline. We talked about, you know, camp is not good enough to be a third line center on a contending team. Hombard, not good enough to be a contending center. Max Domi, they tried. He's not good enough. Are we sure Scott Lotton's good enough to be a third line center on a contending team? Because I've heard lots of great stuff about the character and the leadership and all of this. But you look at this.

This guy's in his 30s. He's got 11 goals. He's maybe a 30 or 40 point guy. Is this good enough to get the Leafs where they need to be? Or did they just end up paying a high price to settle for not enough? I think when your first two centers are Austin Matthews and John Tavares and you're counting on those guys combined between them playing, what, 41, 42 minutes in the playoffs. probably 22, 23 for Matthews and 1920 for Tavares come playoff time. Then suddenly you only need 18, 19, 20 minutes between your other two centers.

So Ken Scott Lawton, I don't think he's, can he be a third line center for the Leafs? As the Leafs are constructed, I think the answer is yes. If you were asking Scott Lawton to play 15 minutes a night for a different team with lesser depth down the middle instead of 12 minutes a night, how does that change to calculus if you're a team not named the Leafs and you're acquiring Scott Lotton. I think that's the conversation that a lot of teams who are in the hunt for Lotton, we're probably asking themselves is if we don't have an Austin Matthews and a John Tavares down the middle, can he be a guy who makes a difference playing 15 minutes a night against

the other top centers in the league? And I think in Lottin's case, you start to look at what that third line might look like, whether it's he's playing with Bobby McMan or Nick Robertson or Kelly. yarn crock. I don't think that's a line that's going to be used a ton, but are they better with Scott Lotton than David Kamp in that role? I think the answer is yes. You probably only want Scott Lotton playing 12, 13, 14 minutes a night, though, come playoff time. I think I don't think you're comfortable with Scott Lotton being a go-to guy, say in the way that Ryan O'Reilly was when Ryan O'Reilly was the third line center for the Leeds. There's clearly a value gap between what Ryan O'Reilly provided

the Leafs in that playoff run and the usage that Ryan O'Reilly got and what they're going to ask of Scott Lotton and his linemates. And O'Reilly was another name that had been associated with the Leaves. And I think if it's O'Reilly or Nelson or Shen, we're saying not only is this a great third line center, but even, boy, if an Austin Matthews or John Tavares had to miss some time, you could move those guys up. They're fine. And we're not saying that here. I still think you're worried if John Tavares or Austin Matthews gets injured, you're worried about your depth down the middle. And that's, they probably came to the conclusion that they weren't comfortable moving an Easton Cowan or a Fraser Minton in order to make that play. I think part of the reason this

is a first round pick instead of those players, I think tells you something about what they think about, about Frasier Minton and Easton Callan, the fact that they're not on the way out as part of this transaction. So time will tell whether that's a worthwhile play. I'm not a huge believer in Fraser Minton becoming more than a fourth-line center. I'm not sure he's your third-line center of the future after Scott Lawton leaves. And Easton Cowan, can he be a top nine-winger? Yeah, probably. But I don't think these guys are difference makers.

So I've always sort of tended to be in the camp of if you can find an upgrade that you shouldn't be, shouldn't be gunshine moving either of those kids. But the Leafs are clearly high on both. And Ben Danford being the other one whose name was associated with, particularly the the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, particularly, uh, on, on, particularly those two guys, uh, let's say the three of them. Let's put Danford in there.

Where, where does Grebeckon rank among those, uh, those three guys? Grebenken coming at, coming out of my prospect pool rankings, which are only a month old now, uh, Grebenken was sixth amongst Leif's prospects on my, on my, on my sort of countdown. If Flyers fans are unfamiliar with the player, he's a six-foot-two winger who works his tail off. That's kind of his identity. He's scrappy. He finishes his checks. He's dropped the gloves a couple of times this year, both in the preseason and with the Marley's,

plays to the front of the net. I think you're hoping he becomes a identity guy in the same way that Scott Lutton was. You're hoping that sort of three years down the line that Nikita Grubankan can emerge as a legit third-line player. And if not a legit third-line player, then a legit, fourth line option for you. So I think that's that's the ceiling. He's not going to be a highly productive player. He's probably not going to play on an NHL power of play. But Grobenkin is a rangey, high effort, high motor type of player who gets after it, gets up and under sticks, wins battles, four checks, plays in the guts of the ice, dirty areas, all of those cliches that hockey

coaches throw around. So I think that's what that's what the flyers are getting is sort of a potential bottom six piece of the future. And if he's not that, he's at least, least at minimum, he's a call-up option for you, and he's a friend of Matt May Mewchkovs, and there are obviously layers to this in terms of why they wanted Nikita Grebenkin around. But it's, he's a guy. I don't think he's much more than a guy at the next level. You're hoping that Fraser Minton and Easton can become more than a guy, and I don't think Nikita Grubankin becomes more than that.

Okay. Well, they better be more than the guy because Leifes are not going to have a lot of picks. And on that subject, we should say that as we're recording this, some updated information, it's a 2007 first round or not 226, top 10 protected, that the Leafs are sending out, which at least, long way. It implies that maybe there could be still something ruined involving the 26. Is there a, I know it's a little ways out.

Is either one of those drafts significantly better than the other? Should we? I know almost nothing about. that I know almost nothing about that 09 age group for 2027 so definitely very very very early on 2027 now leaf fans don't need to know anything about them either because but on 20 on 26 is a legit draft obviously Gavin McKenna being at the top of it is a name that people are already familiar with I'll actually have my first 2026 list out this time about two weeks from now it's almost finished but yeah Gavin McKenna is the name

There are three excellent deep prospects out of the WHL, a bounce back year for the Swedes. They'll have three or four very highly picked players in next year's draft in 2026, but Gavin McKenna will be the crown jewel, undoubtedly. Okay. Good to know. Thanks, Scott. And thank you to you for listening.

Keep up to date all day in the NHL trade deadline deadline day at the Athletic. And by following our writers on social media, I have a feeling. we're going to have another big big trade to talk about very soon. Thank you for listening to The Athletic Hockey Show.