The Athletic Hockey Show - Maple Leafs choke in game seven. Justin Abdelkader and Team USA go for gold at the World Championships, Seth Jones to move on, MacKinnon's Avalanche the cream of the crop.

Episode Date: June 1, 2021

Craig and Sean look back on the game seven between Toronto and Montreal, and how the Maple Leafs star players failed to show up yet again, in an elimination game. The guys dissect how the NY Islanders were built by hall of fame member Lou Lamoriello, and the series they are in with the Boston Bruins. Craig and Sean take a deep dive into the Columbus Blue Jackets and why Seth Jones wants out, and what the franchise can do to save face with their passionate fan base and they marvel at the play of Nathan MacKinnon and the powerhouse Colorado Avalanche.Justin Abdelkader, the Captain of Team USA at the World Hockey Championships in Latvia, joins Craig and Sean to discuss his teams perfect record and their drive to win gold this season, plus Justin discusses his breakup with the Detroit Red Wings and his hope to return to the NHL next season, after spending this year in Europe.  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hey, this is Craig Custins with the Athletic. Joined, as always, on Tuesdays by my good friend, Sean Gentilly, and boy, do we have a jam-packed show. I hope we can get this. There's so much to talk about, Sean. And I don't even know where to start, but I do want to tease. We have an incredible interview. Justin Applicator joined us from Riga, Latvia.

He was the captain of Team USA's. World Championship team. Off to a great start, the Americans. Justin, news came out literally like 15 minutes before we recorded, or at least news came up to me. That's when I read the email from USA Hockey, that Justin has been ruled out for the tournament. I believe it's a knee.

Terrible news for Justin applicator. Brian Boyle is now the captain. But still a fun chat with Justin because just to get his perspective of a weird year at the Worlds. And just to talk how it all went down with Detroit. and it was an awesome conversation, Sean. But first, before we get to that, crazy happenings in the world of hockey.

I know this is an American show. I know we're focused on the American teams, but we have to break the rule to talk Toronto, Montreal, even if we just talk about the Americans in the team and Jack Campbell and Austin Matthews, because, holy smokes, what a collapse, hey, Sean? I was all psyched to only say, like to do like the one word review of game seven and then move on to the islanders ruins.

All right. Seth Jones news. Here we go. But yeah, I don't think there's any way we can avoid that. We're the Tuesday show. That game happened on Monday night. It would be a, what's the word I'm looking for? Professionally, I would say borderline unethical to not talk about it given given the importance of that game last night.

I'm not sure if any of you guys, if any of guys missed it, the Leafs lost. Oh, yeah, yeah. Do you have a score? We got the scores of the two and fours in traffic. I don't know what was the final. It was three one.

Come on. No, who knows? Were we supposed to watch that game? That's really embarrassing. It was, it was three one. So, so I mean, you know, the game is going to be, has been dissected by the time you're listening to

this. To me, the interesting debate is moving forward with the Toronto Maple Leafs because you look at the way that roster was constructed. I think given the restraints of everything, I thought Kyle Dubas put together a really good team. And we can talk about the old guy strategy and bringing in a bunch of guys like, you know, Thornton and Wayne Simmons and even Nick Folino as a strategy. That's certainly up for debate now. But there's also a that were Kyle Dubus are of its own making, right? Like, there's some high salaries on players that, you know, we can say perhaps aren't the best. Is what's, I know where I stand on this roster and we'll get to that in a second.

What are you doing moving forward, Sean, with this as when you looked at how this team played? I was surprised to see how many Leaves fans on my timeline last night were like, all right, that's it from Warner. They're done. See you see you later. But when you look at Martin's contract, I think the funny part of the way that that's structured is like,

yes, he's at a 10.9 hit. But from a cash standpoint, that was really front-loaded. He got paid a whole lot of real-world money in the first couple years of that deal, which helped, you know,

then it drops. That helps keep the cap hit manageable. But it also makes it a little bit more attractive to trade because the team that they were, you trade him too, doesn't have, doesn't have to spend quite as much like real world money on Marner. So that's, that's the, that's the interesting one to me. Um, but, oh my gosh, I know it's, it's, it's a tough time to talk about John Tavares, right? He's coming off, coming off an injury,

didn't play, didn't play the last, you know, six and two thirds game of that, of that, of that, of that series. But he's 30 years old. He makes $11 million against the cat. and he's on it for four more years. So I think the discussion, the contract discussion starts with him as well, right? I mean, yeah, it's all those contracts. And then the guy that I felt the worst for was after the fact Jack Campbell comes out and does his media availability.

During a week, not for nothing, where post-game media availability are under scrutiny or during a time. And Jack Campbell's a guy, and not to make this, not to overanalyze or psychoanalyze here, but, you know, a guy then has been open about, you know, his issues, mental health and struggles that he's had to come over. Biggest, you know, collapse, the biggest upset in years. And Jack, and this is just how it goes. He's a millionaire professional athlete. Has to talk about it.

And boy, was that it was hard. I was seeing the quotes come through Twitter and then watching it today. Like, he put it on his shoulders. And yeah, that first goal was bad. But Jack, it was not on Jack Campbell. No, he was their best player in terms of body of work over that seven games. Maybe you can argue Nylander. I think that it'd be fair.

But 934 save percentage in a seven game series, I really outplayed Kerry Price for huge chunks of it. I think that remains the craziest part. of this series is that they didn't get goalied. That's not what happened. This wasn't Carrie Price, you know, standing on his head for six and a half games. I mean, they had their chances. And if nothing else, they had a guy in the opposite net that was up to the task, right?

It's a great, it's a great, great stretch by Jack Campbell. So, yeah, it was. I thought, I did, I did feel bad for him because, uh, you know, in the list of blame to spread around, he is, he is towards, he is towards the very, very bottom. So here's, here's what I'm doing with this team. So if we're going to, if we're going to criticize Kyle Lewis for maybe some overpayments on the high end, and I'm never, if you're going to screw up, overpay your best players, that's

where I'm at. So I, like, I don't, I'm made a way less mad about overpaying Mitch Marner and Austin Matthews. And they're not overpaid. Totally. But anyways, then I am, you know, people that are filling out lines three and four. for five million dollar players. But if we're going to be critical of those contracts, you have to say, okay, Jack Campbell at 1.65 next year,

like trading for Jack, seeing, rolling the dice there and then, you know, getting them at a really good number. That sets, that sets up Toronto well with Freddie Anderson coming up the books. My solution to this is doing absolutely nothing with,

with the big players in Toronto. And I look at this a little bit like when Tampa lost to Columbus in the biggest upset and whatever. You know, everybody was was freaking out about the Tampa Bay Lightning. And they lose as the best team in the league. They get bounced in the first round. There were people that wanted to fire John Cooper. If Tampa had been in Toronto, people would have been going crazy about that roster. And I've talked to Julian Breezeball about this.

He's in he, you know, he's a guy that sits there. and he's a very analytical guy. He likes a deal in the gray and then make a bet. And he's just like, he's like, you know what? That all of that experience as a group, the way he put it was, it was up to that group to fix it. And if you start making a lot of changes, you're almost letting the players off the hook that screwed up.

And so if you, let's say you, you know, you trade Mitch Marner or you trade Nylander, whatever you do, not. Now, you fire the coach. Now you're saying to the rest of the team, hey, that was Mitch Mariner, you know, and you're letting him off the hook in some level. I love that. I'd never really heard a GM kind of phrase it that way. He's like, we weren't letting anybody off the hook. We were running this group back.

And I would say it worked out, okay, for Tampa. That's my strategy. Run it back. Maybe. Maybe Tampa is the best, is the best possible, the best possible, most charitable kind of comparison there. I mean, I think of the caps, too. I think of the early Ovechkin, Baxter, Mike Green,

Alexander Semen, that first wave of young gun caps that had some, had some ugly moments early on. I mean, it's crazy that those are the terms that we're talking about the Maple Leafs in, really, but you look at the amount of time that these guys have been in the league,

the amount of postseason failures they've had going back to 2017. I mean, starting to stack up and there is some kind of psychic baggage. So you do start looking back on those teams that, you know, did kind of have those, those, those, those choke jobs kind of, kind of stack up. We brought up Martin's contract, right? We're saying it's front load and, in this and that, like something's guaranteed to happen. I think it makes all the sense in the world to hold on to him for at least another year because the, the, the, the no trade doesn't

kick in until 2023 or 24. Like, you still have some, you still have some runway there. if you actually do, you do kind of want to run it back. And I, I think that, I think that does make sense, you know, the time for them to make decisions is certainly not now, you know, 12 hours. Yeah, 12 hours after, after it all ended. I know that there's, there's moves that I certainly wouldn't make if I were that I'm trading, trading, trading, you know, Neelander. He was good. He was, God Almighty. He was, he was, he was their best word. He was, he was great. he might be the player that certain people think Mitch Marner is. So I'm not I'm not trading Nealander anywhere.

But my God, my God, we're going to have six months of roster dissection here. So we'll all have more than enough opportunities to get into it. But it's tough. It's tough to avoid it because they're fascinating. So Fulmark's Montreal, great win for them. They keep going. Of course, we get Canadians jets in the next round, just like everyone predicted. just like just like everyone predicted.

And we have, you know, the Stanley Cup playoffs march on without Crosby and McDavid and Austin Matthews and Ovetkin and all the best players dry sidle because we've got to, we've got to eliminate stars in the postseason because those are the rules by the way the game's called it. So making you hope you guys, hope you guys enjoy Kyle Conner. Household name Kyle Connor. So no who knows how the game is played in the. postseason more than anybody, it's Lou Lamarillo. And, you know, there's a little bit of, I don't want to say salt in the wounds for Leafs fans,

but the fact you've got the Islanders with a big overtime win. And, you know, here we are saying, hey, pay the top players. Don't, don't put a bunch of money into the bottom lines. And it's Casey Sazicus. I remember when they signed like Clutterbuck and Sazicus to those contracts. And there was, like, people's, it was easy to make fun of. It was easy to make fun of. And people's eyes were rolling into the back of their heads because you had 12 million

into the fourth line. And meanwhile, you know, they just keep on trucking the Islanders. Their highest paid guy, Barzal, is $7 million that's playing right now. And Anders Lee, who's out is also at that number. This is the opposite, right? This is, we're going to put together a team and nobody can, you know, you got to do everything the right way and we're going to build it from top to bottom. and it's hard to argue against the results.

And I think there is a legit case to be made that, that, you know, this is the way to build a playoff team. I worry about the high end for the islanders, but, I mean, I don't know. They keep on going. Well, you'd feel so much better about them if they had one more high end forward, right? And I thought that was the craziest part about that Pittsburgh series, was it was at Barzal did knock out?

I know. I mean, he was, he was, he was a, he was a non-factor. They shut down, you know, certainly him and really, and really that entire line, which is crazy. Like, if you'd have told me that the Islanders would be on to the second round of the playoffs, you know, after getting whatever one secondary assist from Matt Barzal or whatever he had, whatever he had during that, you know, during that Pittsburgh series,

I'd have said, I'd have said you were crazy. But, yeah, there is, there's a lot. There's a lot to like. And I know everyone rightfully capped on the on the clutter buck in Sazicus in Sazicus contracts. But I don't know, man. That mix works in that in that particular place because of the players and because of the coach and because of the GM. Yeah. I mean, I've always felt there's a lot of ways to win in the NHL.

Like we all want to sit there in copycat, the lightning when they win or the, you know, whatever. When Pittsburgh wins, everyone's got to put together the fastest team possible. And it's like, you know what? There's, you can win multiple ways. I think it's just more important to have some sort of identity. And this is what you are. And the islanders clearly have that culture, that identity. They know what they are.

I feel like I've said that about the penguins a million times over the, over the last few years, whether it's, my God, conversations with my friends or conversations on the radio or whatever, people get upset whenever they see how small the Pittsburgh penguins are. They're the second, they're the second lightest team in the league, blah, blah, blah. how they won two Stanley Cups, Mike Sullivan, whether he's not flexible enough or two married to the philosophy or whatever, those are all completely valid conversations. But I get why Sullivan continued for so long to preach the speed and skill over everything else, because once you start grafting on random players just because to a system that doesn't support them,

If you're Pittsburgh and you go out and trade for Ryan Reeves, say, or whatever, get big, just get big for, you know, add size for sizes sake. That is where you run into problems. So, yeah, I don't think it's about being fast or just being tough or whatever. I think it's having a philosophy that works and doing actual team building with that in mind. you know so I and I felt like you know especially at times over the last year or two I felt like kind of a shill for Sullivan because I'm like well you know like what are you going to do yeah yeah it would be great if if it would be great for them if they added you know a six four two hundred and 15 pound dude who was skilled and could skate and whatever but that's what

that's what everybody wants and they're and they have to work within within the constraints that they've placed upon themselves so have an identity and stick with it and add players accordingly. I think that remains, you know, the North Star for a lot of this stuff. Absolutely. So maybe that's

the lesson, just to kind of put a bow on it. Maybe that's the lesson for the Leafs. It's like you have this identity. You were going to be fast, you know, the skilled, you're betting on skill and you're betting on your stars. And then you're kind of like hedge and you're like, oh, then we're going to add a bunch of old guys with character that people like.

Maybe it's just like, you know, we're going to double dot. We're just going to outskill you in lines three and four. And that's our identity here. And you know, by the way, if we're going to say, okay, how'd that been the strategy? What does that look like? It looks like Colorado probably. Like, holy cow. It's wild, man.

I know we're about to have a very unbearable few days worth of discourse on analytics versus versus whatever else. Are we? Yeah. Because that's an analytics team in Colorado. So who, like, that's one. That's, that's the, that's the irony. of all of it is that people are going to use the Leafs as the example that analytics doesn't

work, right? Like that's the team that the computer boys get you. And I don't. The irony of all of that. I thought we're, aren't we in the post-analytic era? Like Tampa won a cup with analytics. Colorado is just us going to steamroll teams. You would think so, man.

But every single loss becomes a referendum on analytics. still, it's 2021. Like, it was, it was, and this is a little bit of an aside, but whatever. It was infuriating yesterday. After that game, this is everything we want in hockey. It's game seven. It's two historic franchises. It's this insane storyline that everybody saw brewing over the course of two weeks

with drama and whatever else. It culminates on a game seven on a holiday weekend in the United States. Like, if you're not a Leafs fan, you know, and I realize that's a big, that's a big portion of, of the group that we're talking about here. If you just like hockey, yesterday was compelling and fascinating and probably fun. And within seconds of this game ending, it's like, oh, like, this is proof that analytics doesn't work. No, I don't even... I didn't see that. I didn't see any of that.

Oh, I did. I did. Like, this is what happens. It's will over skill and blah, blah, blah, blah, and all this stuff. That's a joke for a couple reasons. For a couple reasons. Mitch Morner, culprit number one with all of that, not an analytics player. The numbers don't particularly like him.

They never have. Number two is that the Colorado Avalanche are... The analytics darling and they are and they are steamrolling the league as we as as we record this. So the same people who whine about, you know, computer boys built like building teams. It's pick, it's pick and choose. It is. I didn't realize. I mean, I know, I know like every once in a while, you know, Pierre and NBC comes out and says something's ridiculous.

I wasn't. I wasn't even talking about him. It's just, it's just boring, it's just boring old snobes. knipes after any team with whether it's dubus or somebody else bites it. And like, what is I, I, it's, it's frustrating. It's frustrating to see. Like, whether, what, even if you don't believe in in the numbers or whatever, that even if that's, even if that's not your thing, if you're annoyed by all of it, like, so be it. But for the love of God, enjoy a great hockey game. Like, if, if your first, if your first reaction is, is the whatever, fire off some soft tweet after,

you know, 30 seconds after after the whistle, like, get a grip. What are you watching these games for? Good Lord. And speaking of it during the hockey game, I think the Bruins Islanders was the better game. Like, I didn't, you know, I watched game seven because you had to watch game seven.

Then you flipped over and it just, it would, they were flying. It was like, it was awesome. No, I, yeah. The most, the most of, it's, I was, I was mad at myself. The most I saw of, of that was honestly during the cut-ins during, during, during intermissions. You know, Brad and,

Sean doing what he does. Bad American hockey show. It was. It was. It was. All right. I do want to, and we're running a little long in our A segment,

but I do want to get into Seth Jones. Elliot Friedman reports over the weekend that Seth Jones has informed the Columbus Blue Jackets. He will not be back. He, you know, there's the litany of players who have now left Columbus. And,

you know, it's, it's star power. after star power. And this is, this is a tough blow because, you know, you got the sense

in Aaron Portslanders report, like that, you know, they were, he could have been the captain moving forward. This is, you build around a player like Seth Jones and you've got Zach Moransky

and Seth as, you know, anchoring your D. If you have those two, you can basically, you know, scrap together a roster and still be really good. And now you've got a guy who's not only not coming back,

according to Elliot, But now we all know. So Yarmo, any leverage Yarmal Kekleinen had is out the window, right? Like, it's like he's had to make the Pierre-Luc Dubois trade without leverage. Everyone knew he wanted out. Seth Jones wants out. It's, it's, what a mess for Columbus. You know, we were talking about this before the show.

And I think on some level, it could be worse for Columbus. Like, at least you know now, you, if you want to trade. Seth Jones now, you're moving them with a year left on the contract, A, and it's certainly better than getting taken to, you know, July 1st, 2020 and then losing them to the market, right? But, boy, it's, this is not something Yarmo could have, could have wanted to hit, uh, publicly over the last, of, over the last few days. I think that's reasonable to say that he, that he's not thrilled that this, that this happened. And it's another, It's another bad break.

He got held over the barrel with PLD earlier, like you said. And now it's, I mean, it also, by the way, Seth Jones is not coming off a good season. He was pretty, he was pretty rough. We're sure Seth Jones is good, right? I don't think so. Come on. I do, just for the record. But Dom and I, we did our player tears going into the season.

And boy, did we go in circles on Seth Jones. And now Dom looks like he's right. Dom's a pretty smart fellow. Who? I don't know. I don't know. Yeah, you guys do your week of power rankings. This is Dom.

That turned into like some, I don't know what happened last week. Me neither. I let that one get away from me. That's what happens. That's what happens when you let the 27-year-old run the show one week. You get, find out. Me, Dom and Sean's power ratings are always fun. You wake up and realize you're doing an album.

review, but yes. Yeah. Yes. So I, there was, it might have been, it might have been Seth Jones. There was a portion, if you go back and read our player tiers at the athletic as part of our season preview. We kept, we both kept reporting it out and it became an argument amongst our sources within the stories. That's great. I think this was Seth Jones.

So he, I like Seth Jones. I think he's a franchise defenseman. Dom doesn't think he is. He thinks he's overrated. All the underlying numbers suggest he's, he's overrated. And so I, you know, He wanted to put him in a certain tier. I want to put them in a certain tier.

And then I would call a source and they would say Seth Jones is great. And I'd plug that in according to an executive, Seth Jones is great. Then he would talk to an analyst who would say Seth Joe. I think it was like. Yeah. Even if it wasn't, whoever this argument might have been over it. And it might have been Dougie Hamilton. That's a whole other debate.

Okay. Here we go, by the way. Okay. So as much as we like Jack Hughes, we feel good about him in the spot. Not sure we can say that about Seth Jones. He sits in 3A, and if you ask those on the analytic side, they'll probably tell you to move them down. In fact, they did. I was going to say move Jones down, but I know that's a touchy subject with many.

I legitimately don't know what he does above a, quote, pretty good level, said one. And then a Western Conference exec, I can't imagine who he talked to. Said Seth Jones reminds me of a young Chris Pronger. I'd move up, I'd move up Jones. Seth Jones is a star. Eastern Conference Executive, again, I can't imagine which of you this guy talked to. He's a franchise D for me. I'm guessing the relatively lower productions will push him down, but he's a two-way horse.

But yeah, they're, I mean, they're worse with him on the ice and in a lot of, in a lot of metrics. And that's kind of the, that's kind of the upshot of all that. And that did not change this year. It was worse. Like, like, Dom, if, you know, Dom was probably right, ultimate. And I don't remember. It's a bad situation for the Blue Jackers of being because you don't want to have to trade another star, regardless of, you know, whether expected goals likes them or not.

For optics, it's tough. You know, for team building, it's tough. But I don't know that it's the worst thing in the world that could happen. It's bad because you're getting 50 cents in the dollar or not. Like, if you would have gotten some indication, and maybe they did from CAA at the trade deadline, imagine what Seth Jones is fetching from, you know, if Nick Falino got you what he got when you're talking to Kyle Dubus. If you're like, hey, you know,

the way Seth Jones is available, who knows what that package looks like. And so that's when you've already missed your opportunity to max out on the street. If you're the Columbus Blue Jackets. And now, now you're in triage a little bit. What about this? I saw someone put this on Twitter.

So this is not an original idea. If you're Toronto and you send Mariner and you get out of that contract and not that you want to get out of a great player's contract, but I'm just saying for Seth Jones and then you use that money on Seth. How do you feel about that? I think Columbus does it in a heartbeat. Now you have a great young star. Columbus, obviously for a week. Columbus definitely does it. If you're Toronto, do you want to trade for one one year of Seth Jones at his current deal and then the right to probably probably pretty pretty drastically overpaying him afterwards? I don't know, man. I don't know.

Do you want, do you want Seth Jones at eight and a half million dollars a year? You? Me? Personally, Craig Custins? Yeah. Yeah, I still think Seth Jones is a good player. I don't know. Maybe I'm wrong.

Look, if I'm wrong, so are people... I guess, I guess, here's what I'll say about that. Seth Jones on the Toronto Maple Leafs at $8.5 million a year. I think I'm trading Mitch Morner for somebody else if I'm trading Mitch Morner. I mean, I mean, Kyle has the same numbers that Dom has. You know what I mean? I'm sure. But, like, someone was circulating a quote of, like, Kyle Davis yesterday saying, like,

how are you going to get a guy like Seth Jones? Those guys don't hit the market or something. Like he specifically said Seth Jones. So you must. Like, I love what people put these quotes out of context. What else was going on yesterday in the hockey world or over the weekend in the hockey world other than Seth Jones's trade demand? Very interesting. Yeah.

So like, I don't know. Like there's regardless if the numbers like Seth or not, people in hockey love them. You know, I could make two phone calls to two executives and get Chris Pronger. comparisons and whatever. This guy's a superstar. And these are like, yeah, you could. You could. In fact, you did.

I did. I did. And like, these aren't dummies. Like, I can't, I got to give these people like, you know, anonymity because they're talking about other people on other teams. But like if, you know, I'm calling people, like I'm not calling, you know, the guy, whatever. I don't know. These are people that, that know what they're doing that have had success.

Totally agree. I'm just, I'm just passing on $9 million, Seth Jones. That's all. That's all that's all I'm saying. So it's really. not that big of a deal. You're almost fine. He'll trade. He got out of a bad contract. He'll trade a dollar for three dimes and just be grateful that he got out of a potentially bad contract. Well, if they, you know, the win for Columbus is to somehow spin this into a center.

And I don't, you know, and then you make Zach Wrenzky, your captain or you, or whatever, you give Zach whatever he wants. If you, you back up the brink struck. And again, that's not without risk. Like, Zach has had his. you know, ups and downs. Yeah. But you know where I stand on Zach Wrenski. I do. You stand it committing, uh, no, actually, no.

We got them, we got it, we got it for cheap in our longstanding fantasy draft where Craig plucked Zach Wrenski before his, uh, before his rookie year. Yeah. And then gave him away. So if, if they can somehow, like, spin Seth into a center. And I don't know how you, like, who's training a center for somebody coming. off the books. That's the challenge.

Like, that's the hardest thing there. How is that team supposed to be good? Columbus? Yeah. How? What, like, what does, what does a playoff level Columbus Blue Jackets team look like

in the next three years? I don't know. Who on that team is going to be part of a solution moving forward? I don't know. Like, you can't keep losing whether or not you like Seth Jones.

He's a good, he's still a really good player. Yeah, totally. You can't lose these players year after year. So then you either have to change your philosophy and just say, hey, we're going to constantly add draft picks and try to win with a young team before these guys can leave, maybe? Maybe that you have to, like, be your strategy? That's kind of what I'm saying, though, is like, if you trade Seth Jones,

like, I don't care if I get a 1B center for him. Like, I'm not taking a flyer on somebody on somebody who can, you know, be a, who would be a second line center on a, on a contending team or whatever. I'm taking, I'm taking futures, like, regardless, regardless of what, of what position they play or what form they come in. I'm trying to get picks. I'm trying to get prospects. Because you look at that roster, the highest paid player beyond Seth Jones.

And yes, we do have, we do have the, you know, we have the Werenski contract to worry about at some point. But Cam Atkinson, 31-year-old Cam Atkinson at 5.8. Max Domi 53 Lina disaster Oliver Borkstrand signed for

signed you know through 2026 at like what are what are we talking about here like what's the what's the end game and I know that's not

what they set out to do I know that the past two or three years has certainly not gone according to plan but if you move Seth Jones you blow it up you trade everything

and you do you do an honest to God rebuild because what because what else is on this roster beyond beyond, beyond, beyond Warransky. You get the goalies. They're going to trade one of the goalies

for Sikans probably. Yep. Maybe so you're just so I mean I can't go to that fan base and see we're rebuilding like it was just coming out of it and finally having some success. That's fine. Then you need to,

then you need to hit hit the free agent market and try to build that way. And we all and we all know how well that works, right? So you're, it's terrible. It's a tough, tough, tough deal. Who doggies? All right. Sean, we got to keep moving, but I can talk, you know me.

I could talk roster construction and all this all day long. You just cut the applicator interview. Just kidding. How dare you? All right. Let's throw it to a break and then we come back. It was a fun conversation with Justin. I hate that he got hurt because it's, you know, here's a guy that gets bought out.

And he, you know, he alludes to being surprised and it doesn't allude to. He was surprised, and I thought that was interesting. We are thrilled to be joined from Riga, Latvia, the captain of the American team, Team USA's World Championship men's team, Justin Ablicketer. Abby, how are you? Doing well. How are you guys? We're good.

We're good. So, first of all, things seem to be going really well. And I just want to touch just on playing in the world, especially now. I mean, it's a little bit different than normal. years. You guys can't, you know, the world sometimes has a reputation as a bit of a party and all that. It's a different, I imagine it's a different scene this year for you guys. Oh, it's, it's a lot different of a scene for sure. You know, we're pretty much bubbled to the hotel and to the rink and to the race to the game rink and we practice and have games and we come back here.

All of our meals are at the hotel. We have a little area outside where we can, get some fresh air, but for the most part, we're indoors. And, you know, it's, it kind of is what it is. We knew that coming in. And, you know, we're all here to play hockey and, you know, hopefully have a successful tournament. So we have a really good group of guys in the room. And we're excited about the opportunity in what lies ahead. So it's one of the things that's jumped out and you look at this roster and the success has been,

Trevor Moore has been ridiculous for you guys. And like just seems to be lighting it up. What have you seen in his game and why do you think he's had the success he's had so far? Yeah, you know, Trevor's, I didn't know much, you know, of Trevor as an occupier coming in. And, you know, I've been, I've been very impressed. He, you know, he can really do it all for you out there on the ice. you know, he can play power, play penalty kill, face-offs. He really just, really just works each and every shift.

And I think that's kind of the motto of our whole team. We all work extremely hard. But, you know, he's, I think he's formed a really good line with Robertson and Garland. They've gained some chemistry right away. You know, I think Morsey's scored a lot of his goals, right around that net. He goes to that net hard and, and,

you know, has good hands in tight. So he's been, obviously very, very happy. He's been a big part of this team and the team's offense in that line. So,

you know, hopefully he can continue doing what he's doing. You mentioned Jason Robertson. Great year in Dallas, you know, in the rookie of the year conversation. I know Dallas fans are going to want to know how he looks. And I know he's had some early success.

How much he's, you know about his game and what's impressed you the most about him? Again, I haven't, I didn't know too much about him as well. It's been fun to get to know him and he spends his time as his offseason in Detroit and talking to him about growing up and playing in Michigan and, you know, just a great kid. Works really hard. Just has really good instincts for the game. You know, he can skate really well.

You know, it's got a bunch of skill. You know, he's he's tenacious on the puck. And, you know, he's, like I said, that line's found success in chemistry, which is, which has been great. But I think Jason's got a very bright future in Dallas. They got a really good player and, you know, just as important, a really good person. I didn't realize he's a Northville guy. I just looked as you were saying that. I didn't know that.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. that's great crazy the last guy I want to ask you but not just

to run through the whole roster but I know there's a lot of draft curiosity around Maddie Bineers and you know he's

even though he's a Michigan kid he's he is I saw him at the U-18s in Sweden I think it was

a few years ago when he was really young playing with like Jack Hughes and that crew and he he stood out there

with his ability and I think the rankings came out last week and he I think was fifth amongst the forwards.

If a team drafts him, what are they getting? I think you're getting the guy that's going to work hard and compete each and every day, you know, a two-way forward that can play both ends of the ice. You can play center. He can play wing. We've kind of been bouncing him around a little bit. You know, I think, you know, his potential is huge. Obviously, he's still very young.

And I think that's what excites everyone. just with the skill set and the tool package that he has and he brings. He's just going to continue to build on that. And he's a guy that's, you know, he's like a rink ride. He just loves being at the rink, loves being around the guys and, you know, loves practicing, getting better. And it's kind of with a lot of these young kids, they're coming in, you know, at 18 years old and they're ready, ready to play.

They got all the skills, all the tools. And I think he's just going to continue to build on that. This is a great experience for him. I think he's going to come back to Michigan. I'm not sure. We'll see what he decides to do. But I think this will be, you know, this experience will really help him going into the next year.

That's great. All right. So, Sean, unless you had any other world's questions, I did want to ask about Abbey's over-sease adventure this year, You played in Switzerland. How did that come about and how did it go for you? You know, it was, I was kind of waiting around kind of seeing what was going to happen on the NHL side. And it got to a point where I was going to start looking.

I want to start looking in Europe and had an offer in the German League. And ultimately, I wanted to really try to get into the Swiss League. And I talked to a lot of guys that had played over there. And, you know, everyone just said so many great things. things about it. It's unbelievable. And the living and it's, yeah, it's, it's honestly the most beautiful country I've ever been to, hands down, but not even close.

And so I really wanted to get over there and actually had reached out to, I was talking to Jim Slater quite a bit. Oh, yeah. So Michigan State guy and was a NHL for a while and then played over in Geneva for, gosh, I think he was over there for three years. And he connected me

with Derek McCann, who is married to Julie Holland, Ken Allen's daughter. So it's Ken Holland's son-in-law. So he does a lot of work over in the Swiss League and has a lot of connections over there. And so he, you know, we had a few conversations, and he reached out to some teams. And ultimately, found me a spot on Zug.

He knew the GM well and thought I would bring an element to that team that, you know, maybe they were lacking a little bit over the last two, three years. And obviously, knew me as a player and as a person and sold me to the GM. And before you know what, I'm on a flight over there. So that was early February. And gosh, what an experience, though. What a great group of guys.

A lot of, I think we have five guys, five or six guys from our team that are playing for the national team. Yeah, some really good players and came into the team, you know, came into the team not knowing what to expect. Didn't really know anyone, but gosh, just left making some really good friends, relationships, bonds, you know, that you'll have forever. And obviously winning a championship was just, you know, the cherry on top. We set the all-time record for most points in the, regular season, which was pretty amazing.

And then went on to have a really good playoff, you know, beat Byrne in the first round, which was a tough series. And then went on to beat Rapi, which was, it was pretty cool playing against a couple of my former college teammates, Andrew Rowan, Daniel Bukovic. And it just, yeah, so that was fun. And then we went on to beat Geneva in the final. And it was, yeah, it was obviously I wanted to, you know, I wanted to give the NHL. I wanted to get back in the NHL.

That was, that was my ultimate goal. And then when things kind of moved slowly, I knew I needed to get playing. I couldn't take a year off of hockey and think I was just going to come back. So it's a great opportunity to go over there and play. You know, I had a good, good year in playoff personally. we were successful as a team and like I said just an unbelievable experience had my family brought my family over with me for the last two months I was over there three months so they came to the last two they had a great time and then it led me to you know get an opportunity to to play here at the

world championship which has been really cool that's awesome I'm glad to hear you brought your family I know some guys I don't know you know it's it can be a long gap away you know from from the kids. And, you know, and I look at your numbers. And it looked like it went really well for you. Like you were, you know, scoring a lot of penalty minutes, you know, just kind of exactly what you'd expect. And I was just, you know, how did you find the level of play in, like,

in terms of, you know, getting your game where you wanted it to be? Yeah. You know what? Surprisingly, you know, I was training for, you know, training all, you know, for the past year and skating. And I, you know, skated with the wings guys for a while. all the way up until December when they end up moving down to LCA. And then I ran some skates in Plymouth with the guys that were still around through December.

And then in January, I actually hooked up with Adam Nightingale and the U-17 team and started skating with them, which was great. So I was getting good practices in. It was actually a lot of fun for me, you know, skating with those young kids and trying to, you know, it's amazing, you know, the 16-year-olds. I mean, they're talking about good players. I mean, they are, they can, you know, they can skate.

They have the skill. Like, you see why these, these 18-year-olds can, can, are ready to play, you know, in NHL, some of them, you know, when they, when they get drafted. Because they're, I mean, they're just, I feel like they're just light years ahead of kind of where 16-year-olds were when I first came in, you know, with their skill and their development. I mean, they all have skating coaches. They all have skilled coaches.

and they're just really good players. But yeah, so that was a lot of fun for me. I think that really helped me to get me ready for, you know, stepping in and playing. Obviously, I still had to quarantine when I got over there. But, yeah, it was just, you know, playing that first game. It was almost a year off of hockey. It just, you know, really made me realize how much I missed it

and missed being around the guys and playing the sport and playing competitively. And so I just, yeah, it was exciting and so glad I went and had that experience because I could have, I could have sat around,

kind of like, you know, let's talk about Brian Boyle a little bit too. I could have sat around and waited and waited and then, you know, nothing really came of anything. And then, you know, you miss a year.

So, or, you know, end of the year. So it's glad I did it. It was a great experience. Like you said, I felt like I had a good year. And it was just, it was fun to get back playing. Do you watch, I'm just curious,

because I don't know how much you're able to do this, but do you watch the playoffs now? And I mean, this is the time of year where your game really thrives. You sit there and say, oh, man, I should be in there. Like, I need to be back doing that. Yeah, yeah. You know, with the seven-hour time changes, it's been tough, mostly just highlight.

mostly just highlights, but yeah, that's, I mean, that's where, you know, that's why I missed in Detroit the last number of years is just like that playoff hockey because it's just so different. And, you know, I bring that type of game that I think can thrive in a playoff type of setting. And so it's from the highlights, everything I've been watching, you know, the, I think that's everyone's favorite series or series that caught the most eyes was that Tampa, Florida series that It was physical and really good hockey and, you know, a lot of fun to watch. Obviously, all the series have been fun. But that one from me stuck out.

Florida had a good team. But obviously, Tampa's, they get coachback and stammer. And when they're healthy, they're pretty tough. So, yeah, it's been good. I'll continue to follow from afar, obviously. And, you know, look forward to see. in what happens. Is the hope, like, to get back in the league next year?

Is that the kind of the get some exposure in the world? I wouldn't, yeah. Yeah, yeah, for sure. I would like to come back. You know, right situation pops up for sure. I mean, I would also keep the door open to going back to Switzerland as well. Like I said, I really enjoyed it. Family really enjoyed it.

Gosh, you know, the travel was easier in your bed every night. Our furthest trip was three and a half hours. and you leave game days. It's just 52 games. It was different, but it was fun. It was good hockey. There's a lot of skill over there. You know, you do only have four in four spots.

So usually teams carry four or five guys. But, you know, Swiss players are really good, really skilled. And, you know, I just, you know, I guess I just really enjoyed the experience, as did the family. And I know you had to do the two-week quarantine over that. but you played nine regular season games and then 13 playoff games. Like that's, that's perfect, right? That's like,

that's like, that's like the ideal breakdown. You can get your, get your feet under you, not have to have some crazy, some crazy long regular season schedule. Yeah, yeah,

it was, I mean, that was fun, you know, getting over and being on such a good team and team that we knew we were going to be in the playoffs. I think we clinched with like six games left or whatever it was. clinch first place. And, you know, it was, it was a lot of fun, you know, going over to a team that

was good that you knew was going to be in the playoffs. So my focus was, you know, in those nine games, make sure I'm, I'm at tip top shape and ready to go on playoffs, playoffs start. And so it was, yeah, gosh, it was a lot of fun, a lot of fun to win again and getting in a playoff race. And, you know, in the playoffs, it's just, it's different hockey. And you got to, you know, you know, you know the opposition well and you know their tendencies. So it's more of you got to win that battle with that guy, you know, across from you. And that's what I've always really enjoyed. What was the conversation with Steve like when you guys kind of made the decision

to part ways in Detroit? It wasn't. I mean, it was just a quick phone call. I was, you know, I was kind of surprised by it. I didn't really see it coming. I mean, obviously, you always know it's a possibility. but, you know, you just obviously called and let me know and just thanked me for all my years in Detroit.

You know, I'm always welcome back. And, you know, this is, you know, it's a business decision. But, you know, just good luck in your future. And if you need anything, you know, don't hesitate to reach out. So it wasn't, it was pretty short. But it was, you know, it was, you know, it was, kind of one of those things, you know, is what it is. I would have loved to finish in Detroit,

finish my career in Detroit. You know, it's done just such an amazing, amazing time there. And I would like to see through this, this rebuild and, uh, back in,

you know, getting back in the playoffs. But, um, you know, it's, it's, uh,

it's a business and, you know, I, uh, gave me opportunity to, uh, go to another team in Zug where I got an opportunity to play a lot of minutes

and kind of get my confidence back as a player and that was huge. And I think that's helped even coming here to the world championships. I've been feeling really good on ice and get that confidence back. And yeah, it's been a lot of fun that way for sure. It's hard because your game is, like we're talking about,

your game is suited for the postseason. It's suited for those, you know, those tight physical series. So it's hard. It was just where Detroit is in its life cycle. Like it's not, you know what you mean? Like your value as a player isn't part of a team that's at the bottom of the standings, right? Like that's, it just is a tough match. Yeah, for sure.

And you know what? They had a lot of good young players. Yeah. You know, when you're in a rebuild, you're, you know, you want to see what your young players have as well. And I get that too. So, you know, I wanted to, you know, while I had my time there, obviously I was trying to do my best to help those guys along. And I've seen more excited here, talked with him a bit.

And, you know, he's going to be a really good player for the team. Hopefully, you know, hopefully makes the team next year. I wouldn't see why I would be shocked if he didn't, because I think he's ready, more than ready to step right in. He's going to be a good player, franchise defenseman. He's that good. I think he's really good. Yes. Yes, I do.

He's mature for his age. He can skate. He's been laying some big hits over here. I've seen some highlights of him in the Swedish league. He's been laying some big hits over there. It's great to see. I absolutely enjoy that and love that. Love to see that.

So, yeah, he's a right shot defenseman, which is great too. So I think he's, I think the sky's a limit for him, but I think he's going to be a cornerstone. on that blue line for a while. That draft moment is one of my favorites of all time, his reaction. Complete and utter shock. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I mean, a lot of people, you know, myself included, I hadn't really heard too much about it, you know, so it seemed like it was out of left field a little bit, but obviously for the right reason. Did you get, when you got drafted out of the state, were you, did you get, did Detroit give you an indication that you were the guy?

Did you have any? Honestly, out of all the teams, Detroit was the last team I thought was going to draft me. You know, I had a good meeting with them, but not like, I didn't leave that meeting. Like, oh, my gosh, like Detroit's won the teams. I had like three or four teams that I was kind of zeroing in that I thought were going to draft me. And, you know, when it was just a different draft because it was 05 during that lockout. So it was held in the hotel and it wasn't, they only invited like the top 15 prospects. And so I wasn't invited.

And so we just got a bunch of family and friends over at Buffalo Wildlings. And we're watching, they televised the first round. I wasn't drafted in the first round. And then the second round they did every five picks or so. And then so I was kind of getting antsy and I was just kind of like at a point where I was like, like, you know, maybe we should just get going. You know, like, it's kind of like everyone's just anxious, turning. you know, turn it off and then I got a call for my agent. And he still tells his story to this day when, you know, when I answer your phone.

And, you know, I asked, you know, who have I been drafted? Who I got drafted by? And that's when he said the Red Wings. And I said, what? You know, my parents are like, who, who? I probably had like 15 people there. And then I told them the Red Wings and the place. He says the place erupted.

Like there was 2,000 people there. He was so loud. Everyone's yelling. And my dad bought everyone. in the bar restaurant where we were sitting a drink, it was just so funny. Just so, so, yeah, so surreal, being a Redmings fan and having that moment, you know, it's just, I mean,

because obviously that can change the, completely change the course of your career. It's just such a, such a huge moment, and you kind of don't realize at the time, you're thinking, oh, yeah, I'll get drafted, but it just, it can really change your career path. And I was just so fortunate to get drafted into such a great organization.

And the organization at the time was winning a lot of games and winning Stanley Cups. And, you know, I think that really helped set the tone for the rest of my career coming in and learning from, you know, from some of the best. Surprise your dad didn't buy a 10-piece bone list for every table at the big. That's maybe what everyone would have liked instead. Like, I mean, and you show up and it's. It's the, you know, it's Lidscham Zetterberg. That's, like, that's the Rolfsky. Like, that's the, I mean, you might talk about Encelios.

Like, what was that like as a kid grew up growing up watching it to show up at that first camp or first game or whatever? It was crazy. I mean, those were all my role models, you know, walking in that locker with my Michigan State bag. And, you know, I knew where to go because I've been at the Joe so many times. And but just walking in and seeing all those guys and obviously being big fans of them. It was just like a little kid in the candy store, you know. You're just like looking around and you're so excited and, you know, everyone's introducing themselves, but you know them all. I love that.

Like, Lids strip coming up. Hi. Hi. Hi. I am. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It was, it was, uh, yeah, just, just really cool. And then, you know, going out on the ice for the first time, just going out with the Red Wings jersey.

It was just like, you know, you just have to pinch yourself. I was just not like I had to pinch myself like is this really happening. Is this real? You know, and just just a great experience. And like I said, it was just, you know, so fortunate to come into, you know, one of the best organizations. I mean, you show up in that culture and I know, you know, kind of being here and watching, you know, Ken Holland was really wanted that even during the rebuild to last and to still be a part of it. Now it seems, it just seems now like another lifetime almost. Do you, do you feel like that there's, were able to do that. Like, I mean, you're still, you're still, around the team, still around Dylan.

And are they able to kind of have that link or is it so far removed because of, you know, the down years? Do you still have that connection to that culture? I think they still, you know, I mean, I can't speak for this past year. Yeah. You know, when I was, when I was there, you know, we still, I mean, honestly, as tough as it was, we still showed up to, to work every day.

And, you know, it's, it's really. tough when you're when you're losing as much as much as we were. Yeah. To try to stay positive and, you know, and you can, you can, you can go down a dark place real quick if, if, if you let it. And I thought, I thought we did a really good job of sticking together and taking each other's backs and continue to work hard and continue to stay positive. And that's, you know, it's just so important during those times and it's important for

the young players in that room to see and, and, you know, to see how, you know, we got to, you know, you're going to go through your struggles, we've got to continue to work and show up each and every day, like a professional. And I felt like that part of the culture that, you know, Kenny sat with his group, Jimmy Nill and, you know, all the players that were there. I feel like that's all that's lasted. I hope it continues the last. Awesome.

Well, congrats on the success so far on that tournament. Go win a gold medal for the Americans. Let's do it. It's been, it's been, what, since the 50s? or something? 33. Come on. Is that right?

Yeah. Yeah. 1933. I'd say we're due as a country. We're due. We're due. I hope so. I think we got the makings of a special group.

We just got to continue to go out and work. And that's the model of our team. So it's see what happens. Anything can happen in these tournaments. But we just got to continue to go out and work. And we're having a lot of fun doing it. Awesome. Well, good luck.

Justin, thanks for doing this. Yeah, great talking to you guys. Thank you. Yeah, take care, man. I want to thank Justin again for joining the podcast. I hate that he's hurt. I feel so bad because, you know, not only is he trying to lead, as he said, it's been a minute since the Americans won a gold longer than I thought. He knew the exact date. They must. Yeah, that was, I was, I was, A, he knew the exact date. Yeah. I did not. And C, it was much farther in the past than I realized, honestly. Oh, it's, it would be good just so, you know, I know, it's, I know it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, you know, I know, a weird year in the world, but it would be good just to get that gold so we don't have to, you know, we can kind of reset the clock moving forward. The Americans take on, I don't

know what time this game. It may have already happened, but as I record this, they take on Italy, who currently is oh, oh, oh, and six, whatever that means. The Americans are 5-0-0-0-1 in Group D action. So they are cruising right along. So thanks, Justin. You know, they now Brian Boyle is now the captain, they've given the C, they've transferred it over to Brian, but I think Abby's going to stick around and kind of be there for the group, Chris Drury and Jack Capiano and the rest of the, Adam Nightingale, the rest of the staff there. So good luck to the Americans. It would be good to get a gold, as always. I can only imagine because I've only seen one in my life. And we're back, almost back, our abs and golden nights. They play game two of their series.

on Wednesday night. Not back as Ryan Reeves. Nope. He, Craig, how would you describe that sequence? It was comically dirty, I would say,

on, on Sunday night against, uh, against, uh, against the abs there. It's one of those, it's one of those things.

It's really easy to let that kind of dominate the discourse after it happens. Everyone hates dirty hits. Everyone hates, you know, whatever. Any, any sort of headhunting stuff that takes place late in a decided game like that.

I get it. I get why people were talking about Ryan Reeves the last couple days, but it's a bummer because it hides, I think, the result of the game to some extent. Like, it does obscure the fact that the abs were, man, they did something special in that game. And I think we all should kind of be unnoticed that that's going to continue. That's a juggernaut.

don't lose sight of it, regardless of what Ryan Reeves does or whatever anybody else does over the next, over the next couple of days. We could be watching something special here. I agree. Can I change my cup pick? I don't have to. I no longer have my bandwagon hitch to the Vegas Golden Knights. I am, holy cow. You don't want to overreact to one game, but my goodness.

I think Colorado, you're right. Something special is happening there. and we're witnessing it in real time. I want to make one last point here, and we haven't talked about it at all, but this week is the NHL draft lottery. It's on Wednesday, and I love the lottery.

I love debating how the lottery works. I love watching it. I love, like, Bill Daley standing there flipping cards and super awkward shots of GMs in the quiet room. And my only thing, My only thing is I wish guys would like react better when they win and like just start going crazy because it changes everything. Now, this is a really super weird draft like everything is right now. I don't think there's, you know, Owen Power.

The rankings have come out and he's consistently been number one. I don't, you know, you're not hearing maybe as much about this lottery because there's not a Connor McDavid sitting at the top. But I do want to say if I had to rank the three teams I want to win the lottery the most, this is where I. I would go. Number three is San Jose. They sit right now, they have a chance, a 6.7% chance of winning the lottery. I think there's maybe one, if they can hurry up and get young talent there, there maybe is another run left in the sharks. I just feel bad that they were so good for so long and have nothing to show for it. And I think Sean knows.

I've always had a soft spot for the sharks. It's true. It's true. That's a fact. And if they can, not that they need another defenseman, you know, I don't know if this is a perfectly perfect fit. Maybe they don't need to win the lottery. Or maybe they can trade down. Maybe this is year if someone finally trades the number one pick. I would like to see San Jose. Never mind if number three. Number two is Detroit. And maybe my Detroit bias and being in this market is impacting

it. But these poor fans in Detroit have had to go through years of rebuilding now. It's been bad for a while. And they like keep picking like sixth. Like they haven't had that one year where they're number one and they get to talk about who they're going to pick with the number one pick. In fact, they keep dropping. The lottery has been very bad to the Detroit Red Wing. They're six. They're six in the point standing, so I fully expect them to have the eighth overall pick. Continue.

Yeah, you're right. Like, if history is any indication, Detroit, with their 7.6% chance of picking number one overall, they're going to drop. And the fact that they were six, again, that's, they should be, they were, that was a bad, bad team. That's impressive that they were actually six. but my number one, do you want to take a guess? Number one, the Edmonton Oilers.

They defy, you wish that they defy time, space, in the, in the NHL's lottery rolls. The Rangers would be fun to. Win it, again, the Rangers, the Rangers at one percent. Like, people would lose their minds. Or the Blackhawks. I don't, it's not one of those two teams. I actually, and we talked a little bit about Columbus earlier,

I want the Columbus Blue Jackals. is to win the lottery. That's my number one team because... I thought you were going to say the ducks. That was going to be my honest, my honest guess for you. Yeah. Nope. Not the ducks. Just kind of just kind of a, just kind of a guess. I don't, I don't want New Jersey. Like they've had a bunch, you know, Buffalo, my goodness, it wouldn't go well, whatever happened. Like you, you, they've had enough cracks at the number one pick. Seattle, I, you could make a case for Seattle. It would be fun if, if the crack had had the number one overall pick. That's a fun one, but like, I'm a big, like, wait, your turn, Seattle.

Like, some of these teams have been, have been hanging out in the lottery for years and haven't had a crack at it. And no pun intended. Columbus, Columbus with a fourth best chance. Yeah, they're sitting at 8.5 percent. And that, again, I always feel for fan bases. It has nothing to do with, you know, whatever. I sit there and they've got to hear how nobody wants to live in their town and they can't keep a star. And as Sean and I discussed earlier, really the only path forward is to go young and try to win with a young team.

I think, probably. If you can't keep people around, you've got to draft and develop them. And so, you know, then you can replace, you can trade Seth Jones for whatever, replace them with a top defenseman in the draft. And again, I do think trading the number one overall pick this year is option.

Like, Yarmot will do anything. You know Yarmot's, he's he's gutsy so he may be so it would just it would give those fans something positive for once in their lives to talk about it would it would give us an interesting GM at the top of this draft I think it would be a lot of fun it's a lot of shade being thrown at Columbus there I think that might be the is that by me you think you're like we'll give them something to be happy about for for once in their lives what imagine being a blue jackets fan no that's from I'm saying it's it's it's it's big 10 it's big 10 fans

end of biases here. Yeah, maybe. Coming out. So, all I'm saying. I'm with you, though, man. Them, I want, I, I'd love for the wings to win a lottery. If not, if not for the fans and certainly for Max Bolton, because I want, I, I want him, I want only the best for, for, for, for, for, for, for, for, for, for, for, for, for, for,

for, for, for, for, for, for, for, for New Jersey. Who do I like to. That's, that matters. That's all that matters. Oh, my gosh. Buffalo, by the way, John Vogel. It asked for New Jersey. Corey Mazasack, you know what you did.

I don't want to. My favorite thing about the Sabres this year has been reading John Vogel. Like, I think it's, like, John is so fun to read when things are going terrible. Like, he just crushes. Like, it's so, I want them to, like, drop 10 spots. All right. We've again gone long. So thank you.

This is such a fun show, Sean. It was, thanks again to Justin Abligator for joining. That was really good. I do want to, before we go, I do want to give a plug to the other days of the week at the athletic hockey show. It's been fun to be part of the athletic hockey show family. Make sure on Monday you listen to Ian Mendez and Haley Salvin. And then we are followed up by, on Wednesdays, by a good friend Scott Burnside and Pierre LeBrun. Thursday is Ian Mendez and down goes brown. And Friday, I didn't know this was announced. We're doing this. Maybe it's already happened.

The Prospect series with our best friend, Max Baltman and Corey Pranman. Max, hosting a show. I was trying to set you up with the pro segue there, big boy. I was just reading it as I went for the first time I remember. I got the teleprompter in front of me like Ron Burgundy. Got it got to be on your toes. Oh, Max and Corey. By the way, the prospect series was part of the full 60. Max ripped it out of there and him and Corey have gone rogue,

complete. I just feel betrayed, but it's going to be great. And I look forward to listening to that. Lastly, I will say go if you are a subscriber to the athletic, drop a comment in the athletic app. We have gone in. We like to go and respond. It's good to get your feedback,

what you think. I like when people make jokes about Sean. That's that really, I really appreciate those. And we respond to them. I do. I don't know if Sean does. Sean,

he's not really a man of the people. I like, we're going to have it off my conversation about that, my boy. I will, we jump up and we, We will, we will, I love reading those comments. So go, go to the athletic app, leave a comment on the show. We want your feedback.

Also, if you can give a review at Apple Podcasts, that helps us a ton, especially if you specifically mentioned this episode, I want to make the other days of the week feel bad. So go to Apple Podcast. If you like this, if you've enjoyed this and say, you know, Sean and Craig, like, make sure you mention us by name when you do that. And if you're not a subscriber to the Athletic, go to theathletic. dot com slash hockey show and you can receive a subscription for just $3.99% per month. I mean, can't beat that. Theathletic.com slash hockey show and you're getting in at $3.99. That's awesome.

Sean, this was fun. I look forward to this now every Tuesday morning. Yeah, this is great. You're great. You're my best friend. Let's go. Max is my best friend, but thanks.