The Athletic Hockey Show - Maple Leafs push Lightning to brink of elimination, Cale Makar's hit on Jared McCann, and David Quinn on his first season with the San Jose Sharks, Team USA, and more

Episode Date: April 25, 2023

Craig and Sean breakdown a shocking turn of events in Tampa Bay last night which has Toronto, inexplicably one game from eliminating the Lightning, Jack Hughes highlight reel goal which sees the Devils tie their series with the Rangers and Cale Makar's date with player safety after his hit on Jared McCann.David Quinn, the Head Coach of the San Jose Sharks, and the bench boss for Team USA's squad at the upcoming World Hockey Championships joins Craig and Sean to discuss a challenging first season in San Jose, his solid relationship and belief in General Manager Mike Grier, the Sharks struggles with defensive hockey and holding the lead this past season, the out of world effort from star defender Erik Karelsson and EK65's future in silicone valley and the Sharks chances of winning the NHL Draft Lottery. Plus, coach Quinn talks about the US roster for the 2023 World Hockey Championships, which is ever evolving with Alex Tuch, Jake Guentzle, Conor Garland, Nick Bonino and Casey DeSmith already committed to joining the roster and helping lead USA to their first gold since 1933!Subscribe to The Athletic Hockey Show on YouTube: http://youtube.com/@theathletichockeyshowGet a 1-year subscription to The Athletic for just $1 a month when you visit http://theathletic.com/hockeyshowStart making your financial dreams a reality with Chime. Get started at http://chime.com/nhlshow Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hey everybody. This is Craig Custance, your friendly Tuesday American edition co-host of the Athletic Hockey Show, joined by Sean Gentile. And if I sound rushed, it's because I feel like we have so much to talk about today, Sean. Yeah, you sound like you're in a real hurry here, man. Yeah. Do I? This is like, this is me panicked. This is my panic voice. The house is on fire. Great show. We're joined by, last week we had the women's world championships coach John Robleski. Go back and listen to that if you haven't. He was great. This week we have the men's Team USA World Championships coach David Quinn. Also, on the side occasionally coaches the San Jose Sharks as a bit of a side hustle, but we know his priority is to lead the U.S. men to World Championship victory.

I lost track of how many times he's coached the national team over the last few years. Six? I know the answer. He coached the world's last year, and then he coached the Olympics a year before. Three, right? It's seriously because he was the head coach of the Olympic team and then did worlds and now is doing worlds again. Yeah. And it's good.

As he mentioned with players, you put in your time with USA hockey, you tend to get rewarded down the past. Like John Robleski's a great example. Came up through the program, has put in a ton of time and got this great opportunity on the women's side. That's how it is. Sean, you keep working hard at the athletic, a New York Times company. Someday your dreams too will come.

You'll be coaching the Americans. Oh, I thought you were going to be working for the New York Times. You're going to open up a door there, baby. I was just beating you to it. But first, let's talk playoffs because what a night last night was, just Americans all over the board. We don't talk a lot of leaves because it's covered pretty well in the other days of the week. Uh-huh.

Yeah. But there is an American side of that. And Austin Matthews, just two massive goals and a comeback victory for the Leafs. I've got thoughts on both of those teams. But Sean, you were watching that. There's messages being exchanged about what, you know, what's Mac and Doe going to write about? Like, what was going to, what do you think all that? What a win.

I don't, okay, so I didn't see what Sean wrote for this morning. I haven't read it yet. I can guess that this will. Yeah, I'm sure. I can guess that something that will be mentioned in that is the fact that in our little Slack channel, in our national coverage Slack channel, at 8.23 p.m. Sean McIndale.

You're just going to, you're going to put them on blast? It's fine. No, I mean, of course, this is his, of course he thought this. I thought these were private messages. I didn't know these were public. I didn't know these were for public podcasting discussions, but go ahead. I have a whole message board where I just post.

internal athletic. It's on a Discord. I just post all our internal communications there. Wow. Macandu, 8.23 p.m. If there's any story emerging from Toronto, Tampa Bay so far, it's maybe the lightning are just better. 823.

You know what, Sean? By the way, he's probably right. I don't know about that. What? Maybe Tampa's a better team. Better at certain things. You know where they're not better? You can't say this.

What you're about to say? I'm not going to say. But Fatsaleski has not been good. I know one of those goals came on a tip, like whatever. There's three straight. Multiple goals. Three straight, three straight duds for him. He's not, he's not a world beater right now.

He hasn't stolen, he certainly hasn't stolen any of him. His goal saves above expected that have been negative in all three. Like, yes, some are happening on tips, but he's not, he's not bailing that team out. And the leaves are better. than they have ever been before. That's a better group of skaters. In Tampa's, you know, they're missing.

They miss Headman for a little bit. Eric Chernak. Other guys are getting older. The bottom six isn't as much of a factor. All these things, all these little factors where it's like Vasselowski hasn't been good. And the leaves are a little bit,

are a little bit deeper and a little bit better. And Samsonov hasn't self-destructed. And all these like little, like mini boxes that are getting checked. night after night after night it adds up and that's how if you're the Toronto Maple Leafs you get to 3-1 in the series like there's no one smoking gun you need a bunch of stuff to go right and it's at the same time and it's finally happening it's wild but it's also to Sean's so congratulations of the Toronto Maple Leafs from moving on to the next round of the playoffs way to go yeah

Ryan O'Reilly's got to score late the Leafs that that lightning would the better team in that game. And really, whatever happened last night, you could argue, though, I mean, the Leafs did what they did. I'm just, what I'm saying is it's not, this can be one of those series where the Leafs advance, which they should, and I believe they will because they've been in this position before. There's no chance at this point they're letting their foot off the gas. Like all that experience, all the things we talk about, the things that you have to do to get to this point, this is where it pays off for the Leafs, I believe.

So I do believe they'll advance. But it could also be one of those series where you go, well, Lightning might have been the better team. They probably should have won that serious. Who gives a shit? I know. You go. You advance. That's how hockey works.

I get it. It's not the deserved to win a meter should be disabled for the playoffs. As I say this, as I look up, the deserve a win a meter for, deserve to win a meter for these, for these games. But can you imagine how hard the least are going to play at the start of, at the start of game five? They're going to come out. They're going to be shot out of a can. And the concern, I think, is that there is some as, as it, as it always is. is that there's some early, some early, you know, fork in the road where there's a

whatever, bad goal, whatever happens, or if it turns out that it's going to be the Samsonov game where he steps on a rake, because that's, that's going to happen at some point. I'd like to say that I'm not surprised by it, but I still could be, because of how good that roster is and how well-built, how well-built it is, in the work that they did at the trade deadline, and how much those, how much everything is paying off. Logically, you're like,

Jake McCabe, he's been, he's been really good. They've gotten good minutes from Luke Shin, on and on down the list, you know, everything they've done from the team.

Oh, like he's been, whatever, it points the best player in the series, right? Like, all these moves that they've done

have paid off. So I'd like to say, on some level, as someone who tries to approach this stuff more logically than not, I'd like to say that I'm not surprised,

but I am because you just were conditioned to expect it. Disappointed by it, too. Well, here's the thing. I would agree with you. Even like, I think they come out house of fire in this next game because they're like, hey, we've been in the spot. We've learned. But I also, like, I'm not even worried about the lightning scoring in that early

goal because the leaves have shown us in this series, like, they're still coming. They're just going to keep coming. Like, that's, I don't know if we've seen that version of this team before. I don't know. They've shown you something that. again, not to sit here and talk about the leaves. The goal tending should still scare people. It should.

Samsonov, Samsonov, he's been, and there is no safety net. There's none. Joseph Hall is break in case of emergency, right? Like, whatever. It's Samsonov or bust. Yeah. And that should be terrifying. Say what you want about Vasilevsky, and I'm sure all these stats have or will be trotted out,

but, you know, when the lightning can be eliminated. you generally you get a different. He just stunk for three games in a row. It's true. Like, like, it doesn't change. It doesn't change what he's done. I'm not slagging his body of work, but like. What do you want him to do on the game winner last night?

Tip post in. Yeah. I'm not, I'm not, I'm not clowning him for that goal specifically. Like, dude, he got seven hung on him in game, in game two. Like, come on. It's okay to say that this guy hasn't been good in this series.

And it's a big part of the narrative, you know, if and when this happens, it's going to be because Andre Vasselowski was not good enough to beat this team. First time for everything, but it's happening. And it's happening right in front of us. I think people are afraid to say it, too, partially, because there's so... And this goes back to the whole Toronto media complex thing, too. I think people are afraid to like poke the bear on this one and say, like, you're going to you're going to jinx yourselves if you talk about how Andrea Vasilevsky has basically stunk for the first

four games here. He has. It doesn't mean, it doesn't, that means nearly nothing moving forward, right? I'm not, I don't think he's probably not a good bet to be awful in game five because it's Andre Vasilevsky. But part of the reason we're here is because he hasn't been good enough. It's crazy. He's also maybe more better known for the games when the lightning can eliminate teams. It's the opposite. I mean, he's good when they can be eliminated, but I'm not hedging. I wonder. That's why you're laughing. Someone to dig up Andre Vasselowski's record after he loses three straight games.

I'm sure he's really good in those. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry to the Vasilowski family. Whatever. He hasn't been good. It's okay. It's okay to say.

That's fine. And nobody has the courage except for me. Okay. This is big Vasselowski. Everybody's caltowing to Big Vasselowski. I hope you're remembered for the guy that slagged the best goalie of his generation. Ever! He hasn't been good. It's fine.

On multiple tipped shots. I will defer to my placement of him on the NHL 99 for how I feel about him in general. I think he's fantastic. But this has not been his best work. And the reason the Leafs have a chance to clincher is in no small part due to the way that he's played. It's okay to point it out. Okay. Jack Hughes, friend of the show, so for to say, three goals and four games.

He's family. I don't know of Jack specifically. Family friends. Family friends. Three goals, like Jack's, Jack, it's so fun to see somebody arrive on the stage and do exactly what you wanted them to do. Mm-hmm. And here we are, Devils, Rangers, tied up.

It's rude. I think we all sat there and said, we got the brackets out and we're like, hey, Islanders Rangers would sure be fun in round two, wouldn't it? And I'm not sure if either team's going to hold their end of the bargain on that one. I don't think so. You know what? I felt stupid for picking the devils at the start of this, right? Because my thought, I was like, I'm going to go with them because the whole experience

versus inexperience. That's true in a lot of cases, but rules are made to be broken. Like there are times where stuff like that doesn't, you know, doesn't hold up. And I thought maybe this was one of those cases. First two games, I'm like, whoops, screwed that one up. But everything that Jack's done from the on-ice stuff, which has been great, he had a quote in-between games. I saw this that I can't find it now specifically, like exactly, but I saw it ahead of last night. where he was like,

everybody's talking about experience versus lack of experience and how like we haven't been here before and blah, blah, he was like, that's not what's going, we just haven't, we haven't played well. That's it. Yeah.

Which is, I think that's an important distinction to make. And I think that's an important way for these teams to feel individually. Like, it's one thing for us to sit here and talk about the devil don't have experience and it's going to come back and bite them in the ass and blah, blah, blah. And that might, that may well be true. I think I believe that to be true in a lot of cases, but they can't believe

that. They can't believe like, oh, word, that there's like predestination of play here and that we're doomed because we haven't done it. Like, that is, that mindset that he talked about is the exact one that they have to have, which is like, look, this is in our control or a good team. We weren't at our best for the first, however many games of the season, and now it can change. Right. And that's what he said before last night and then he comes out and he's the best player on the ice last night. Like I think that means something. Good goalie story in New Jersey too. That's always fun. Love it. He was, Schmead was one of the seven guys that they rolled out there last year. And I feel like everybody kind of lumped them together because their goalie situation was such a catastrophe. Right. It's

it's McKenzie Blackwood and it's Jonathan Bernier and it's Nigel Dawes and it's all these, all these guys like going on and on down the list. And he was in there and that was a lot of people's first exposure. Is it really one of them? That can't be right. I don't know if he got. actually a good question. I can't remember if you got hurt at the start of the season or in between. I'm not checking your math.

Whatever. They had seven. No, they played seven dudes. And they had sub-900 goal tending for the entire season. Like, that's what destroyed them last year. And Schmead was in the, was kind of in the,

was in the mix, right? He was one of those guys. So I think, I think people saw him resurfaced and we're like, oh. Yes. This is his one.

One of those guys. Part of the sub-900 parade from last year. And it turns out he's pretty young and pretty good. I said this yesterday in a thing that I wrote. Like, he's got that level of randomness to him that we see from like playoff legends, right? Where you're like, I don't, I don't know, this guy's got a funky name. I don't know where he came from. I don't know.

I don't know. I don't know anything about him. But all of a sudden, he's out here thrown up 935s in a couple straight games. like, oh, no, might have something here. That's pretty fun. It is. It rules. Yeah.

Before we get to David Quinn, I, you know, I did want to ask you about the K.L. McCar, honorary American, Kail Makar, who I thought was American for the first couple years of his life. Because he definitely should be. His hit on Jared McCann. They walked it back to a minor. Just crazy. I know. I feel like what Kail said after the game.

was he didn't know where the puck was, right? On this play. Yeah. Yeah. And I believe him personally. Well, then we're all set here. No, that doesn't. I mean, you suspend the outcome. It's insane. He like, he, like, he, like, waved off a penalty earlier in the season. You remember, remember that? I mean, he's just, you know, doesn't have a history of, he's not trying to cheat anything.

But it was a, it was a late bullshit hit. I, like, I, here was my reaction when I saw the play. I was like, where the hell did the puck go? And then you look, is that, did it go in the stands? Like, did it come down off the netting? It was a bizarre bounce. I don't think you realize what had happened. But that doesn't matter. It's Jared McCain, 40 goal scorer, by the way, as everybody loves to point out.

He's out for game five. He's out probably longer term, you know? Whatever. This goes back to the whole thing and it's been the debate around hits for as long as we've been doing it, right? it's like, do you suspend the outcome or do you suspend the intent? Like, what should the blend be? I don't care that Cal McCart didn't mean to do it. He did it.

Yeah. If McCann's concussed or whatever and is out for the series, that's part of the equation, whether or not you, like, I've used this before, but when I asked a GM about this, he's like, here's an easy way to do it. If you, if you're driving recklessly and you hit a tree, it's on you or whatever. If you clip somebody walking by. as you hit the tree, there's a result that you will be punished for. There's a result here.

Totally. We can sit here and say, like, McCar is not that kind of player and he's never done that kind of thing before. And you can look at it and say, you know, I think it's pretty clear that he didn't realize that the puck was out of bounds, but like tough shit. He demolished Jared McKean, who had completely let up,

was not prepared to be hit. I did not realize that, like, Jared McKin knew it. And that's part of the reason. The outcome of that hit was so horrendous because McKin was not braced for it. Right.

So you say like, you know, whatever. Okay, like, we believe your explanation, but take a seat. It still happened. It's still happening. It happened. I didn't mean to as a defense. Yeah.

Like, when is that ever... As somebody who has kids, I know that that's not a defense. It's a nice try. I didn't mean to. That's fine. Okay. Okay. Go sit in your room.

The craziest part was I'm taking it down from a major to a minor. I think that's the more, to me, that's the more, yeah, it has. You saw it, you saw it happen because you were, you were at a, you were at a game, right? You saw it happen in Carolina. I don't just have it with a jack jury, yeah. It's like, why? Why is this happening? Like what?

You know why. You know why? Yeah, because they're scared. I'm asking you. I was trying to tee you. It's because they're scared. They don't want to impact the game in a way. They don't want to impact the game.

I'm assuming. They don't want to be the guy that sends. that sends Kail McCart out or puts him in a penalty box for five minutes or sets the table for him to be suspended. They're not, they clearly don't want that smoke. And that's insane. That's insane. There's no other better explanation.

That is the most logical explanation when, like, when you're, when you're watching this. He got, he, he just demolished Jared McCann and injured him well, several beats. after the whistle. Like, on what earth is that not a major penalty? But it's a star player. It's a crucial game. And it would have been a kind of a pivot point, you know, in the action there. So of course, of course they don't do. It's a joke. With all due respect. And when you say all due respect, as we all know, you can say anything you want after that. Eric DeHatchik, friend of the show, Hall of Fame or wrote, you know, let's stop the whining about the referee. Like credited Todd McClellan for not going down that path.

I just, I would disagree with that and say, like, it's been bad at times, the refereeing, some of these calls. It's okay to call people out. I think teams should, you know, I'm okay with that. We laughed. You know, we talked with David Quinn, who got fined 25K during the regular season, so he was going to go down that path. Which one of us clearly was unaware of, by the way.

I just forgotten. What do you think, David? Yeah, he's going to jump in. on this conversation, probably not. I'll take it again. 25 grand wasn't enough. Yeah, let me go on Craig and Sean's little podcast and ring up

another bill. Cost myself another couple vacations or whatever. Okay. I actually like the gamesmanship that happens sometimes. I'm fine with all that. We don't have to take the high road. Nobody needs to take the high road. I appreciate what Eric's saying. Like, let's... I get it. Like, maybe you ran it in, but the

best way to to dial, to decrease the amount of complaints here is to have better officiating. Yeah. Or implement video review in a more equitable, reasonable way. That's a big part of it too. And I think that's a very important. I think Eric did a great job of like weaving that into it too is a lot of this,

a lot of this has to do with with video replay culture, which is, which is true. Yep. I think an important part of what Todd McClellan did. And this is what you get. He's a veteran coach. very successful coach. That's like a, I'm not saying, I'm just saying sort of thing

coming for him. Like, no, no, no, no, no. I'm not going to whine about. I'm not going to wind up. There's a lot to complain about here. Lord knows I would be in the right. It'd be really easy for me to whine about how shitty the officiating is, but I'm not going to do it. I'm not that guy. Listen, these guys are working hard.

You might complain about how bad it was because you're seeing what I'm seeing, but I'm not going to. Let me tell you something. There's a lot of soft player. and a lot of soft players and a lot of soft coaches in this league who if they had to put up with the shit that we put up with today would complain about it. But not me. Not me. Not me. Because guys are working hard. We got to play through it. All right. Coming up next, David Quinn, great conversation. We caught him on the way to the airport. We got Rex in the

backseat who could be a twin for Burlington. Fun fact, Sean. My dog, Burlington, same dog is what David had. His name when we bought him. we don't adopt. We're not rescuing anybody. We're getting designed dogs. Yeah, you get, you're getting bougie dogs. When we,

spare no expense. He was a Rex until we changed him to Burlington. I love it. He looks like a Burley. He looks like a RECS. I think you guys landed on the right names for these dogs. Yeah. We're now thrilled to be joined by head coach

of the San Jose Sharks, David Quinn, who is traveling Florida right now with the family, the family dogs. I love it, David, thank you for joining us. How are you? Well, I'm good to be with you guys. There's a lot to get out with you. And we got you on specifically to talk about Team USA and the World Championships.

But I think Sharks fans, and NHL fans that maybe weren't watching every game of the Sharks, and maybe they were, we don't know. I think there's a lot of compelling things to talk about in the season that just ended. And you're coming out of exit interviews. And, you know, we talk a little bit about the balance that you have of trying to turn the page versus correct mistakes. What was your message to your team and your players specifically? Did you have like a through line when you were talking to the players coming out of the exits?

You know, it's funny, Craig, because, you know, the word that just jumps out to all of us, whether it be players, coaches, or management is frustration because, you know, through the course of the season, people that did follow us and watch us, we found ways to lose hockey games that I don't think you could really duplicate. And it was, it wasn't just one way. It was a different way every night. a different player and, you know, the level of frustration that kept building throughout the first half of the season was getting difficult to overcome. And, you know, we felt like we were playing

pretty good hockey and I record certainly wasn't indicative we thought of the way we were playing. And so, you know, obviously when it became clear, we weren't going to make the playoffs. Obviously, Mike made the moves that were beneficial to our organization long term. And obviously the end of the season was certainly didn't mirror what we felt the beginning of the season or the first 50, 60 games were. So it was really a tale of two seasons in a lot of ways, but you certainly have to learn from, you know, the season, understand the things that you did well and the things you got to improve on. And that's our job as a staff and to kind of alter some of the things that we were doing to put ourselves in a position to win more hockey games.

I mean, there was definitely, you know, this point of demarcation for you as, as, you know, you talk about finding ways to lose, a lot of like overtime, a lot of, you know, close games. for the first half of the season and then the GM does what the GM has to do there. Is your pitch to Mike like, hey, can we take another run at it next year? Or is, you know, I mean, he's got these long-term plans. And I mean, Eric Carlson is top of mind, like what he has to do there versus you saying, hey, we want to improve off of last season. Like, how do you balance that with Mike?

Well, there's a balancing act for every organization, right? Every organization is looking short to a man long term. That's the job of the general manager. And, you know, unfortunately for us over the last four years, years, we've been paying the price for chasing Stanley Cups for 20 years. That's just the evolution of a franchise and the way things go in pro sports, right? You can constantly trading away assets, you're trading away draft picks, and eventually it's going to catch up to you. And that's kind of what's happened here in San Jose. That being said, we've got a core of, you know, guys in their early

30s that are really good players. So I don't want to say we're in between, but it's not as clear cut with us as what the next step is. And that's something that, you know, is probably going to take care of itself and unfold here in the next two months. I mean, you don't have to look far. Like, look at the Kings. Like, they're, they're probably a good comparable for you all where they're sitting here as we sit and talk. They're giving the Oilers all they can handle with this combination of young players and the same guys that they were winning Stanley Cups with. Well, it's funny, you know, when I took over the Rangers, you know, we were in similar situations. the Kings and the Rangers.

We were ahead of the game a little bit when I got to New York. And here both organizations are, the Rangers and the Kings, you know, legitimate chances to win Stanley Cups, you know, right there fighting for it. So, you know, there are different ways to do it. It can happen, especially when you have, like you said, you know, I think L.A. is a pretty good comparable to where the situation we're in. And I've got all the faith in the world in Mike that, you know, we're going to get out of this quickly.

but also in a timely, responsible way. Sorry, Mike. Or Sean, I was really hogging the mic here. Go ahead. I mean, we talked about this. We talked about this once already, but like, how is, when you do go through the exit meeting process and, you know, you kind of assess, you know,

the way the last chunk of games went, is there, is there like a magic bullet? Is there one thing you can look at with your team? and say like this is this is what did us in from an on-eye standpoint over the last over the last you know six weeks or eight weeks there is anything that changed well the last six or eight weeks were we're almost an outlier in a lot of ways because we make so many changes we had so many new faces so many call-ups so you know it's all you got to be you also going to be you know realistic to what you're evaluating and we're probably more

focusing on the first 60 games and we are the last 20 to get a real feel of what we need to continue to do to be better. And, you know, we did a deep dive about, you know, why are we giving up so many goals? Why are we defensively one of the worst teams in the league? Because if you look at high danger chances and, you know, giving up chances in general, we were in the middle of the pack, even creeping to the top 10 in some of the defensive analytics. And it just didn't match up. And the number one thing was offensive zone turnovers. I mean, I think it was almost 38% of our chances against were because of offensive zone turnovers, you know, high risk decisions, you know, not responsible decisions. And that's something that we're going to have to clean up

for sure next year. And, you know, there's some things we can do from a coaching standpoint to put us in a better position that way. Absolutely. And we're in the process of doing that now to figure out, you know, what can we do? What can we tweak from a coaching standpoint? To put us in a better position. And we're in a coaching standpoint to put our players in a better position to not turn the puck over as much as we did in the offensive zone. How do you figure out a level of risk that you can live

with when it comes to coaching on an offensive team? Because you don't, I'm sure you don't want to coach the creativity and you don't want to coach the offensive chance taking out of these guys, but at the same time, it was a clear problem for you guys. So how do you how do you get to that even watermark where you're like, this is this is like, this is

like this is the sweet spot for us in terms of risk-taking? Well, I think we had players that probably weren't highly skilled, offensive players, trying to be highly skilled offensive players. There are acceptable turnovers in hockey. You're going to turn the puck over when you're going to be, A, when you have high talent, and B, when you're trying to create offense. But there are also players that have to understand what their abilities are, what they're capable of doing, and what they're not.

And I think sometimes what can happen is, you know, in our situation where we were not a high-scoring team the last two or three years, and we want to score more goals, everybody thinks, okay, I'm going to do more, I'm going to do more, I'm going to do more, and all of a sudden, you may be doing more offensively, but you're doing a lot less defensively. And it's that balancing act of players understanding, you know, what their abilities are and what their limitations are, and that's part of being in NHL. I was just in New York watching, I was at the Islander's Hurricanes game and it was funny. I was thinking of watching Brent Burns make this huge impact on this game and you can see what happens when a guy like that goes into a playoff kind of mindset. And it's like, oh yeah, this guy's great. We all remember how good Brent Burns is. And so I know there's probably people watching that going, boy, it would be awesome to see Eric

Carlson in that scenario. I don't know what those discussions with him are like, but do you get the sense from him? like, I want to be part of this or I want to be part of winning or like what are those conversations with Eric like in terms of his future? Honestly, Greg, I think he's torn because I think he really enjoys San Jose. I think he likes the direction of our franchise. But he's also going to be 33 years old and he wants to win Stanley Cup. Right.

So, you know, he and I have had many conversations about this. I think he's in a little bit of a holding pattern trying to see what our next move is. And I think he'll make that decision here over the. the next few months in his conversations with Mike and seeing what's what's going to happen here in the next leading up to the draft. And obviously the first piece of the puzzle is going to be May 8th when that those ball start bumps in all over the place. That's true.

Like that might, he might be like, yeah, I'd love to stick around. Connor Vardard or whatever. Yeah, exactly. I mean, one more. I guess one more on Carlson, though. He's in the, I mean, he's obviously, if not the front runner for the Norris. He's certainly one of them. You've talked about his candid.

He, you know, several times over the course of the last month. But I thought something you said about it that was interesting was you're talking about his offensive ability. You said his elite ability is like extra, he's got that extra gear, right? His elite is super elite. And I know there's a lot of people out there with Norris ballots or a lot of people that track this sort of stuff. The defensive numbers are always going to come.

They're going to be, they're an obstacle for people. We can be fair about that. But what is it about Carlson, you know, maybe a little bit more specifically? that makes him a worthy vote and a guy who should be the top of a whole hell of a lot of ballots here. Listen, I get the defensive numbers and why that may get people hesitation to vote for him from the Norristrophy. But I think also people have to realize the team he was on in particular during the last half of the season. For the guy to get 100 points and be second last time I checked, it five on five points to the National Hockey League.

on a team that was an highly gifted and offensive to me guys i i'm not saying you can't you don't weigh the defensive side of it i mean defenseman defense is actually part of your job description i get it but this is such a unique year for any defenseman in the history of the national hockey league i don't see how he doesn't win the norse trophy i mean what he did was incredible and to watch it every day and to watch you know you hear all the stories and when i do the job. He and I had many conversations. I mean, I, I, he was so enjoyable to coach, so coachable. Talk to anybody that's been there. I mean, it was a special season in so many ways, so many ways. And, you know, I'm not saying he can't be better defensively. He and I certainly have

had that conversation. We had it at the end of the year. But our circumstances didn't help him. That's for sure. And, you know, you sit together as a staff at the end of the year. You talk about player strength and leasing his is and all of a sudden he comes up we're talking about eric carls well the weakness well defensively he's got this guy can defend with the best he's got great hornery rangy hockey strength he's got a great stick he's ultra competitive and you know there was such a burden on him offensively that he suffered defensively for it that was just the circumstances of our situation all right let's talk team USA so we bring this stat up every year when the Americans go to the world. It's been since

1933, David, since they've won gold. We, I can say we. I'm an American citizen. I'm not on that. You got the passport of you. I'm not on the coaching staff or anything. 1933. So, come you know what you got to do here. It's going to add someday, hopefully it's this year.

We've been knocking on the door. We've been knocking on the door. And we, you know, our roster is slowly forming. I like the direction of it. You know, it's, it's going to have. happen. Like I said, we've won some bronzes. Last year, we were playing for the bronze again. We had an incredible game against Finland in the semifinals. I don't want to get in that, but we lost five defensemen in the tournament. The last semi-final game against Finland, we were playing with three defensemen. And then Riley Barber and Sam Lafferty were our fourth and fifth defensemen because we lost five B. Everyone, everyone loves Sam.

Hey, no excuses, David. Come on the position he would want to be in. My point is we're going to do it. And I'm banking on this year. That's for sure. Can you, what's the roster building like? I mean, I know there's always this recruiting that, you know, the key is to get a couple players into it and have them do a lot of the recruiting. What is that process like right now?

And I could predict every, every way a conversation is going to go when I call the player. Yeah. Yeah. You know, hey, how you doing? You want to come to where else? Well, who's going. You're going. That's what going.

And now when you go, we can get a lot of it. other guys to go, right? That's the number one questions guys ask. Listen, it's a big commitment. It's a lot of time, but rarely do you get to play for your country. And, you know, the great part of American hockey is the depth is increasing every single year. And before they switched over, the NHL guys decided that they weren't going to go to the Olympics last year, I was going to be an assistant coach with the NHL players. And I'll tell you, sitting in those meetings, trying to pick an Olympic team. team, it is incredible, the amount of names that we're leaving off that would be saying

himself, how is that guy not Olympian? And it's getting the point with American hockey where, you know, if a guy doesn't have a legit reason or a good reason not to come, part of the decision-making process is going to be, okay, you know, Quinn told us no three times because you wanted to go on three vacations to the world championships. But when it comes time to make a choice, that's going to be part of the decision-making process. And that's where we're at as in a country, which I think is going to help us get players to come play in the tournament. So when you say Quinn, you mean Quinn Hughes, right? That was a clear shot to Quinn Hughes to play this year in the world.

He's been, he's paid. I think Quinn was, he's played in at least one that I remember. He's played. He's played. Do you have that for, do you have a couple dominoes that you're like, we're pretty sure we're getting this guy that and that help. It always helps to have like Patrick, and not in this case.

But, you know, I remember when your Patrick Kane was in or Dylan Larkin or whatever. Yeah, we got Gensel. We got Benino. We got Tuck. So that's a good start. We got Garland. We got Garland. We're making strides.

We're a bunch of guys that are, we had three or four guys that were coming that, unfortunately, were injuries. They couldn't come. Matia Samuison, Jordan Greenway were coming. And after their accident interviews and physicals, unfortunately, they're not able to come, which is unfortunate. And so we've got some good building blocks. We're Casey DeSmith and that, who's a legit NHL goalie.

So we're going in the right direction. What are the calls like whenever you have to track down guys who may have just been eliminated from the playoffs? And I know those are calls you've had to make before, but is that a difficult, like how do you finesse that? Like, is it a case-by-case thing? Like, what do you do?

Sorry what that game said at loss. Hey, sorry about last night. Do you want to go to Finland in a couple days? That is not easy. That's a lot of Dr. Phil and trying to handle around the obvious of, you know, playing in front of 20,000 people. and the intensity of Stanley Cup hockey and, you know, to be able to kind of reset yourself

and come on over and play. And, you know, you've got to be realistic, too. You give a guy a few days and you want people who want to be there too. So as much as you want to try to recruit somebody, you don't want to talk someone in the coming over. You want people that are all in when they're there. You know, we had Bulldy and Hartman and Swamen and Join us last year after their exits.

And they were outstanding. We could pass for more from those guys when they came over. How about some of the young guys? Like the draft eligible, like a Will Smith or some of these, you know, I know sometimes it's hard. It's all of a sudden you go from playing kids to men. Is there a pool of guys this year that you're looking at for those kind of opportunities? Yeah, definitely a pool of guys that you're looking at, the college guys. But again, you're, you know, from an NHO, but you want to bring the best players.

And, you know, that's what we're focusing on right now. All right. Well, I know you got a plane to catch dogs to kennel, whatever. whatever else. A house to build. You're building a house. Aren't you, David? Somewhere in Rhode Island right now? You've got to oversee some construction. Building a house in West Daly, Rhode Island. We saw in our apartment in New York.

We fly JSX Airlines, which allows us to take dogs on the plane. So it's been a precarious route back to New York. I was wondering if the golden dude will lead in his own seat. That's what I was curious about. He gets a lot of attention and he lays in the aisle. He knows it. See, he knows it. That's always, that's always the way it goes.

Rex is a ham. We love it. Oh, my gosh. Rex is a ham. He's a hit. Every airline he walks on. That's amazing. Well, David, best of luck.

Safe travels. Thanks for joining us. And we'll have you back on with that. After we win gold, we'll be back on. Sounds like a plan. That's right. All right. All right.

Travel safe. Thanks a lot. All right, guys. Sean, I know I bring it up to these coaches every year. The Americans haven't won since 19. 133. Honestly, nobody in the United States cares, but me and you might, you might care a little bit. But it would be really fun to get David Quinn. I think David Quinn cares. I mean, outside of the people that like, you know, are, pride is online and they're trying to do this. It would be really fun to have him back on here with a gold medal around his name. Oh my God. You imagine? I think we've already said that. He said something similar going in the Olympics, but that's okay. Let's let's come on. Let's do this. If you're, if you're on the fence, NHL, I'm. American player about going over there.

Just let's all agree to go over there one year and win a gold. Just decide to do it. Decide to do it. Patrick Kane, if you're listening and you're like, you know, the devils are giving us a push and we're going to get knocked out. Patrick Kane is, he's always seems up for it. But let's go over there and get a gold because if it's been fun to have. I think we might have a broke some news on the podcast, maybe.

I don't, I think all the stuff about the rosters. I don't remember hearing that anywhere. Jack Gensel? Yeah. good for Jake Get it done Yeah So get it over there

Let's get a goal Let's have the men and women's gold On this side of the border It would be I mean This podcast Bring it home boys That's what I say

Coming up next is What did Jeff pop The only important The only segment that matters The only segment that matters With all due respect To the previous guest We'll be right back

This is the only good segment on the show It's the comment section you guys know how to find it. Tap listen in the app. Right? Then what? Oh, you had to look down. I see you looking down to see what's next.

I've got to memorize. Hey, all you've got to do is open up the athletic app on your phone. Tap, listen. It just kind of pops up there, actually. The athletic cocky show. It's actually gotten easier, maybe. Then you go to the Discover tab in the listen and then discover. And then NHL, listen, stop interrupting.

This is important. People need to know. Listen, discover NHL, the athletic hockey show. You scroll down. You look for our episodes. Our being mine and yours specifically. These comments are on our interview with John O'Blessky. He's the coach of the women's national team for the United States.

Great talk with John last week. I hope everyone enjoyed it but that's what these comments are are under the heading and I would like to reiterate for anybody who maybe missed

missed out last week the comment section is fixed there had been issues I believe with iPhone commenters you're welcome Craig and Craig bang the table

probably fired a couple people honestly three three good luck to them by the way whatever comes next can't comment on it but we're looking forward

to seeing what comes next They're all three of them. Not at the athletic. And got it taken care of. So here we go. Here's the comments on the John episode, which again, you should go and listen to because he was great on a lot of different stuff.

One of our big talking points last week was the ESPN studio show, intermission pregame. It's brutal. It's brutal. I think Sean was a little hard on it. In retrospect. Do you get a call from Messier?

here's what I want to say I think Chelyos and Mark Nessier are doing a great job and P.K. is talking the right amount. It's good actually. Never mind. They actually

They called those guys don't care about us. They don't care of shit. Yesterday actually they had the really confusing thing about the ESPN broadcast is it's tough to figure out who was going where because everybody is working a different series. Like game

crews have been different. Last night, Butchagrass in Weeks, and John Butchagrash, Kevin Weeks, and Ryan Callahan, we're working we're working in our missions, which was, I was confused by that. But this is after calling Vegas game, like, they're just like all over the place. I think that's part of the problem is that, like, nobody's finding their given flows in games. I'll say this about Turner. Again, this is definitely a U.S.-centric conversation. But I think the X factor, the difference for me is Paul Bissonet. Like, I like when Bizz jumps

He, like, he adds an energy to that intermission that's, it's just fun. And, like, you know, they're giving him a hard time about rooting for the Leafs. And then, you know, they're getting texts from Charles Barkley. Like, that's what I want for my. And then, then they take a second to really break it down. They were talking about blocking shots the other day. Like, in a way that's, oh, it's really good. Colby Armstrong's talking about breaking both of his feet when you're blocking shots because

he didn't put a skate guard on. And Colby's good. You get, like, this moment. Colby's good. You get a little bit of insight, but it's wrapped in fun. And that's what I'm looking for. Yeah. I like that group.

Liam's a good ringleader. I thought by that biz had it. So Steve Levy. I'm not going to take any Steve Levy. It's fine. He's a former. He's a friend of yours. Not mine though.

Liam's my friend. Are you guys friends? I'm friendly. It's a very important distinction. No, those guys, those guys are good. I think, yeah, right. I think,

um, like Biz is pretty, Biz is, when it comes to breaking down stuff, he's, I think people don't give him enough credit there because he played, he played defense in forward professionally. Like, I know he was a, he was a,

he was a fighter, but dude, it takes something to play both of those positions on the professional level. And he was doing, and he used that experience, I think, well yesterday when he was breaking down,

he was breaking down some, some, some breakout stuff by, by Tampa. And then, you know, Obviously, the counterbalance would have been the forecheck by Toronto. It was great.

I enjoyed the TNT, the TNT Studio show. But like I said, we ragged on the ESPN experience last week pretty good. And it's, whatever, be better. It's TV. I like having people that are pretty fairly removed, like in the game. Like, you know, I mean, P.K. obviously is. But I do like Colby Armstrong can sit there and talk about, if you're talking about the leaves or you're talking about whatever. he's got firsthand knowledge of the people he's, I don't know.

You got to have a couple of those. Yeah. It's a fine line, right? Where you want to have people whose experience isn't so far in the past that they were playing like a kind of a, maybe not a different game, but we'll say it, like maybe a fundamentally different game. But you also don't want, you also don't want it to be so close. You don't want to have a bunch of people that are still so close to the game that they're

afraid to criticize anybody. Yeah. Which, you know, you know, who's good at that? I know I've seen BX obviously a lot, a lot on Sportsnet, but Yandel, Keith Yandle really, really good at, you know, on TNT with, you know, the guy was playing 15 minutes ago, right? But he's still, he's still capable of being critical. And also the blend, because you have Colby who's been out of it for a few years and Bid's been out of it for a few years. And Anton Carter, like, those guys can weave in and maybe talk about guys who Keith Yandel was playing with last year. Like, it doesn't have to all be from one. one person or another. I think the balance is right there. But that brings us to the comment from Maxie in our original complaint about the ESPN studio show. He said that Messier and Chaliel has talked too much and P.K. never shuts up. Which is true. Maxi, two guys who hate talking and one guy who talks too much sounds like the opposite of a Tuesday boys interview. Am I right?

That's really good. It's really good. I will say this about us. Let's go to the ESPN or whatever. When the Athletic gets game broadcasts in 10 years. Studio show, Greg Custin, Sean Gentilly, and Quinn Hughes. That's what it would be. It would be like, Quinn, what do you think? All right. Back to you, Sean.

Then we laugh in the mics for 45 seconds. I know Sean and I are talking over each other right now as we speak. I think we've gotten better about almost, I think it's going to on the other direction because there's been, I don't know if Jeff is editing these out or not, but there's been multiple times where I'm waiting on shot, like, or he's waiting on me where we pause and there's like a 40 second pause where we're like, because I think we're trying not to speak over each other. We're trying not to speak over each other and we also realize that that stuff is easy to edit out. So if there's like five seconds of dead air at the start of a question,

yeah, like Jeff just goes in and fixes it. It's great. You all never know. Super comfortable for the guest, I'm sure, to sit there while Sean and I are staring at each other and assuming going, do you want to go? Do you want to go? No, no, no, no, no, you go. You go. I'll go. You take this one. Okay, that's fine. No, I'll go. You want me to go. Canada L says talk college hockey with Quinn too while you have them. I should have read, we should have probably read that comment before just now. We recorded David Quinn already, but that would have been a good idea. I like college hockey. It's Florence McCansy Tuesday boys Hashtack Tuesday boys Tuesday boys Giving away the Mario card Shortcut

No one knows about To the comments By email Which like Did we check The emails at The athletic hockey show Atgmy.com

Or whatever No But someone else does Jeff Did we get any emails? Hey that was a good email I remember that now I'm going to read this one

from Mike. Nothing this week, Jeff says, by the way. Hey, listener. Gives us send them some really long emails with charts. Like the listener last week, that was really good. If you want to email, it's, who knows, it could be anything. What's our email? It's a Gmail.

Just email me. W.W. At the Athletic. Happy New Year's guys. Thanks, Mike. I've noticed. You know, you guys can actually just text me. My phone number is 412.

Come on. go ahead wait a minute wait a second Rick gonna go get Craig's Craig's phone over don't give out

please Rick Petino was caught on camera yesterday according to a tweet he tweeted out

uh giving his cell to somebody and everyone watching the broadcast picked up and picked up what he was saying

and he said he got 300 calls from people mostly positive so Sean I think if you gave out your cell people would uh people would react well to that the world will never know god god bless rick patina glad he's back in a in a power five in a power five situation he's also changed his

cell it's the athletic hockey show at gmail dot com if you would like to send us uh something a little lengthier than the comment section might provide anyways mike m says um Craig seems to genuinely laugh hard at Sean's jokes even the bad ones There are battles. Okay, that's a backhanded compliment. It's hard to say. Does Craig do this for everyone? Could he offer this as a service?

I'm emceeing my sister's wedding this summer and I want some good laughter sprinkled in the crowd. Yes, as we know, if you listen to the ads, I am looking for more wedding invites. So, thanks for that laugh, Sean. See, Sean, because Sean does a super-tationality. I'm a tougher. I'm a tougher sell, though. I mean, he will leave me out. hanging. So yeah, Mike,

send an email with the invite to the aforementioned email, and I will go and I'll cackle in the back row, like really loud. Like Ed McMahon style. Good one, Mike. This is the best wedding I've ever been to. I find Sean genuinely funny.

I know, I don't know where I land on the spectrum. with our audience. It's a genuine laugh. I don't know if I would be good at faking a laugh. I think Sean's a funny thing. We enjoy each other's company. I think that's the main reason the show works. That's why it's literally the only reason into the psychology here. Yeah. What do you got? Which one you want to read next, Sean? We'll go Shana. Shana. I know we've butchered her name many times over the years. Well, you should say it with that Midwestern A. Yama.

Yeah. It's a real seismic. seismic situation there's no I correct myself recently by the way doing that what was the city Lancaster Lancaster

that's correct Seismic and seismic is just me Leinchester Lester Lester Shana says talking about how the ladies

have to hustle is a pretty stark picture of what it's like to be a woman in a male world which is I mean it's true I think that's something that needs to be said pretty often

when you're talking about the women's game is the amount of you know, work that's expected to them, you know, whether it's selling, selling the game or just business concerns maybe that, that just don't exist for the men. Like it's, it's having to teach a class at the college at your coaching. You don't even like random like side jobs. And like other jobs, not being able to play hockey profession, not being, needing to have other jobs outside of professional hockey for the most part. It's, it's one of those things where you got to,

you don't want it you don't want that to be the focus because you want to talk about these women as elite hockey players right like that's that's important you don't want it to you don't want every conversation about this to dovetail into like oh you're doing this and you're doing that and isn't doesn't it suck to have to work that hard but it but you also you also need to acknowledge it it's a fine it's a fine line I think I like not to patterns like I don't I don't like to do that with the players because I feel like like like not only do this to put up with that they have to put up like with dope's like I like I don't like I don't like I us that want to talk about like, do you play on your brother's team? Tell us to me,

you know. I've, I've been, I've been schooled in that, in, in, in, in that regard. People, people don't, people don't hear that. They don't want to hear that. No, they want to talk about, like, what they did against Canada. Yeah. You know, not going to ask. Jesse Comfer about, about, about the season, J.T. Comfer's having, having with the abs or whatever. No, no, no. That's, right. That's, that's, that, that should be frowned upon and it is. So, I, So I'm done with that. And I think that's a cousin of it. Even, I think the like, man, and I, and I'm sure we have.

I'm sure you can find clips of me, like, asking these questions. So that's fine. But, like, that's the cousin of it. Like, oh, you have to work at, you know, GNC or whatever. Yeah. And, you know, it's one of this thing. Golly for a professional hockey. Yeah.

And I hope people, especially with me, because I end up having these discussions a little bit more because we talk about it. We talk about the women. I had two podcasts a week. and we talk about the women's game a lot more with, you know, with me and Haley. Like, I hope, I'm asking people a lot of times for, like, patience, basically when it comes to me talking about this stuff, because it's not something that I, that I'm, I'm an NHL writer, right?

Like, like, it's just, I've had to pick up stuff on the, on the fly and kind of learn as I go. So I do appreciate the grace, I think, that people have generally given me there, because I'm sure, sure, sure that I do still sound like a jackass talking about it sometimes and certainly have sounded like more of a jackass in the past. But you just try to get better because it is. It's a great, you know, it's a big part of the sport. And it's going to be a bigger one moving forward. And it's, and it's a fun thing to talk about. But there are nuances, I think, that everyone's, you know, especially if you're a man in your 37 or whatever that you're still figuring out. I'm old. I'm there, 37.

Hey, Michael Kay, this would be a good time for me to let you know. I won't be doing two out of four shows. Schedule keeper. Schedule keeper. So I just wanted to clear that with you. I wanted to get my time in now. So Max probably, hey, shout out to Max. Filled in for me.

I was out of town this weekend. I coach a flag football team. Maxwell stepped up and subbed for me. Because a lot of people don't know this about Max, I have them sub for me for whatever I do. Dude, I seriously. I seriously thought you were saying that you were going to be out of town to coach a flag football team. And that's why you, like, that's why you weren't going to be able to do the show on May 3rd or, or whatever.

Okay. No, I was in New York at the Hurricanes Islanders. I know. So I needed some of this, the team I coach. And I was like trying to find a replacement in Max. And Cody Stavenhagen was the defensive coordinator, a Tigers writer. I love that. And just a workman-like 28-6 win.

for the Detroit Broncos. Detroit. The Detroit Broncos. Max is doing all three shows while you're out, honestly. Believe that the plan. Don't hold me to it, though. Nice little one. The kids actually want him to coach instead of me now,

shockingly. Not a surprise. Also, Shana says, I really find the videos of the company in Canada that makes resin tables very calling, which I don't know why those came up, but I do too. I love watching.

Oh, that was our... Why were we talking about? We're talking about ASMR. Okay. Someone claimed that the last four minutes of our pod was maybe the best in podcast history. How about this? Do you have any... That's a comment in here.

That's an actual comment. That could be a compliment. That could be a vicious roast. I have no idea what we talked about. Hold on. I'm going to read... Sincerely. I have no clue what it was.

The last... Where's this comment? Oh, it's from Jesse W. I feel like Jesse W. He's a regular... He is. Jesse Jesse is a regular here So I'm going to assume

The last four minutes of this podcast episode Is some of the best podcasting I've ever heard And then someone liked it It got a thumbs up after that I'm going to like it too Now it's got two thumbs up You know what I think it was Like you and I ended up talking

Did we end up tacking on all the conversation We had at the end Because it was that like Was that when we were talking about Was that when we were talking about DSPN stuff? No, I think you and I then went sideways into like three or four other conversations that we weren't sure whether or not we're on. You know why? Because that shit's a lot more interesting than hockey.

I'm really interested in hockey right now. It is. Yeah. I feel like the last, I definitely feel like the last few nights to have been fun. Like there's always that like little, do you, do you feel this way that there's like a little bit of a lull in series like around like game two or game three? Yep. And then it's like it. And then you start getting into the end game on these various series. and I'm like all in, definitely. Yeah, it's, we've got, like, we're going to have some game sevens coming up by the time. I think that's it. It is it.

For comments. That's it. Someone wants you to get a TikTok account. I do have a TikTok account. I have a lurking account. Is it private? She's the, you know what, that's a good question. I don't actually post anything on it.

I think it's, I think it's private. What do we like tonight? Man, we can, the can't eliminate the Oilers, right? The Oilers? The Oilers, the Islanders. That would be in the Stanley, in the 2006 or whatever it was. Dwayne Rollinson. That's right.

Are you starting Jack Campbell? We didn't really talk about that if you're the Oilers at any point. I'm not. I can't, I can't bring myself to it. He's an American, so that's why I ask. I understand, you know, I understand the logic and we'll see what, we'll see what Woodcroft does, but I just can't, I can't get over. I can't get over how bad he was for the first.

for 85% of the seasons, this season or whatever. So yeah, Carolina is trying to eliminate the Islanders in Minnesota, Dallas. Love that. That's been my favorite series. Yeah. Somehow I haven't.

Joe Pavelsky's back on ice. He might be playing. Who? That series. Joe Pavowski? Yeah. Place for the stars. Good, good American player.

Jeremy Rutherford is going to join Rob Pizzo and Jesse Granger on the podcast tomorrow. JR, I would like to get his thoughts on Ryan O'Reilly. He knows these guys so well. I don't know what they're going to talk about, but... Yeah, he'll be worth talking. I'd love to hear what you say about O'Reilly because I know that they have a relationship. I know they've worked together. Covered that team.

Jeremy Rutherford watched Ryan and Ryan to play a lot of hockey over the years. So it'll be interesting to see what he has to say about this. Make sure you subscribe to follow The Athletic Show on YouTube at YouTube.com forward slash at sign the athletic hockey show. Funny every time. Every time, every single time. I think the Robleski's interviews up there. If you want to watch that on video, I want to talk off air,

but I think there's a better way to package that. I would get right to the, anyways, nobody wants to say to the whole thing, but there was some really good stuff he said that I thought we could break out on those. That's a separate conversation. You need to just leave our faces out of it as much as possible too. That's very important. I feel,

I really feel that. I might start wearing sunglasses for interviews. I was thinking that. You think that'll be a bad move? I can't, my, my, my,

my, my, my, my, I can't get over it. Like, I'm just, I'm, it's like there's a,

it's like there's a, it's like there's a, in my, in my, in my, in my apartment. It's like, I'm like,

every time I talk to these people. It's terrible. I need to figure this out if we're going to keep putting this shit on video. I just don't think we have a wide enough box to work with. I have a stiff neck after these interviews because I'm trying not to move. Because we have the skinniest little sliver. Just like wherever I look, it ends up being like kind of, I'm like looking through the camera, like through the, through the camera or off camera or something.

I'm bad at this. I don't know what I'm doing. Anyways. Anyways, YouTube. That was, if you really, we're really, maybe we're underselling it even, you can say. We're coming up next week, maybe possibly the recently retired Justin Braun, it was to stick with Shark Week. And, but we've got some good, good guests in the hopper that JD's working on.

And also just want to thank one last time, David Quinn for joining the show. Best of luck in Finland to the Americans. We'll have them back on with a gold medal. and when he loads up with American talent for that run. That's it, Sean. Good show, buddy. You really crushed it.

I think this was a good show. Most of the other ones, hmm. This one, hmm, passable. Great. Thanks for listening, everybody. Happy new year. Bye.