The Athletic Hockey Show - Matthew Tkachuk traded to the Florida Panthers, Johnathan Huberdeau and MacKenzie Weegar to the Calgary Flames in summer blockbuster, Hockey Canada’s “Action Plan” to address systemic issues in hockey, 2022-23 NHL season predictions, and more

Episode Date: July 25, 2022

First, Ian and guest cohost Sean Gentille make Hailey feel great about celebrating her “birthday week” this week and then they discuss Matthew Tkachuk getting traded from the Calgary Flames to the Florida Panthers for Johnathan Huberdeau, MacKenzie Weegar, a prospect, and a pick, the Huberdeau-Weegar media availability in Calgary this morning, Flames GM Brad Treliving turning a bad situation into a homerun, and more.Then, shifting gears to a much more serious topic, the group talks about Hockey Canada releasing its “Action Plan to address systemic issues in hockey and ensure greater safety and inclusiveness in and around Canada's game” in the wake of two separate sexual assault investigations currently underway allegedly involving Canadian national team and national junior team players, respectively.Plus, to close things out, Hailey and Sean discuss some of the Matthew Tkachuk trade proposals they received on Twitter before he was traded to the Panthers and they go over the most interesting points from The Athletic NHL’s early predictions for the 2022-23 season.And, right now, you can get a 6 month subscription to The Athletic for just $1 a month when you visit http://theathletic.com/hockeyshow Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome back. It is your Monday edition of the Athletic Hockey Show. It is Ian Mendez with you, as always in this scene. We're going to have kind of a blended show with our buddies from the Tuesday podcast, right? There's no rivalry anymore. Sean Gentilly with us. Haley Salvian is going to be by, but at the time of this recording, Haley's actually kind of covering the Jonathan Huberdo-McKenzie-Weeger introductory presser in Calgary. So she'll jump on here. We'll talk about obviously that seismic trade that went down late Friday. night. The Hockey Canada story

continues to have different tentacles to it. We'll get to that. So a lot to get to on this Monday. But yeah, listen, Sean Gentile joining me to kick this off on a Monday. I got to tell you, where were you Friday night at like, was it like 11 o'clock Eastern time when that trade broke the Calgary, Florida?

Somewhere in that neighborhood, right? I was on the couch. Can you believe that? Yeah. Shocking. I was, honestly, I think for my own sake and for the sake of the copy that I had to produce that And I think everyone was lucky that I wasn't somewhere else. It was a Friday night.

It was the summer. Like, it's a miracle. I wasn't at a bar somewhere or whatever. So the timing, the timing worked out well. Yeah. Speaking of good timing, I think I teed up the fact that Haley was going to join us later in the show.

And it turns out Haley's here to kick off the show. So this is great. This is great. And we're going to talk to it. Because obviously Haley has been front and center with this story involving the Calgary Flames. But, you know, as we bring her in here, Sean, I think we need to talk about this is Haley's birthday week. And she's been very clear to those of us at the athletic, this is her birthday week. And first of all, what's your take on people that don't just celebrate a birthday?

They have a birthday week. Birthday weeks are rough. You know what I heard? I heard someone used the term birthday month not long ago, which is... Birthday month. Insane. That's one 12th of the year that you spend forcing... people to, you know, take you out, take you out for dinner or whatever.

Birthday week is understandable, but it's like Christmas creep or whatever. Like when you start seeing Christmas stuff in stores in like October now, I think that's what's happening with birthdays. And I blame, I personally, as an, as an old millennial, I blame the zoomers for all of this. Yeah, like the birthday, like, yeah. Also on the same part as birthday. Hold on a second. If you're, if you're older than 21, you got to cut.

You got to cut it out. Yeah. That's what we, what's the day, the age. I was thinking, once you turn like 12 years old, maybe, maybe pump the brakes on the big birthday parties. But yeah, I mean, I can, I can be with. I can, I can understand the big one. You know, you, you learn, you learn to drive.

You turn 18. So you can, you know, in Canada, you can drink in the United States. You can join the army. Uh, 21, you get to go to bars. 25. You get cheaper rates on rental cars. Like, I understand the, I understand the big ones. After that, it's like, you get a day.

Yeah. And here she is, by the way. Yeah, but here she is. Her birthday week. Is this thing on? Yeah. Birthday week. That's going to sound really horrible on the other end, me tapping the microphone.

Hey, hey, how much of that? How much of that did you hear? Were you? I've been here the whole time. I've just been trying to get my recording to work. Yeah, I don't really have a comment. But anyways, you know what? Birthday weeks last until you're 28.

You get a birthday week when you're 28, but then after that after that all changes. I just turned 25. I'm a young phenom. Sure. Yeah. Birthday week. Hey, by the way, Haley, so your birthday week, your birthday falls on a Tuesday. Do you celebrate?

Do you have the parties and stuff the weekend before or the weekend after? I mean, I'm not like a big, I've never been a big birthday party person to begin with, but my mom's birthday is actually on the 31st. So usually we will just do like a family dinner or we'll have a barbecue or something on that weekend. Because usually my birthday is during the week and my mom's on the weekend. And then we'll just do something together. My mom and I, my dad, my grandpa will come up. You got the biggest gift of all.

I think the offseason actually, I think the Flames off season actually started. It's over. Matthew Chuk got traded. Happy birthday, Haley. I'm convinced. Well, you know, I don't. I don't want to, you know, brag about how powerful I am in this market. But I tweeted that my vacation was supposed to start.

And two hours later, Matthew Kachuk got traded. So I don't know if it was Bradtree Living or Matthew himself who saw that and said, you know what, let's get this over the finish line. It was Bill Zito. Bill Zito. Yes. He's got a burner account. Yeah.

Yeah, Bill Zito is actually a huge fan. Yeah. It's why he knew Matthew Kach was so good. and worth $9.5 billion because he's a loyal subscriber. Bill Zito heard that Haley's birthday was coming on, or that she was going to start a vacation,

and immediately rejected that completely bogus offer from the St. Louis Blues, which was Terris... Brad to be living, you mean not Bill Zito. Oh, yeah, right. He bested it. Haley would not like this. He bested it.

He was like, she needs the... We got to do something about this vacation. I need to find a way to put together an offer that's better than... Teresenko and Markle's kids, Helena pick. And a first round pick. And I'm pretty sure it was lottery protected also, which is hilarious. Joke.

Oh, man. But yeah, what a week. I feel, I feel ready to relax. Yeah. Good timing for vacation. What a way to kick off your vacation by joining the pod. Yeah, super relaxing. And this is Monday that we're recording this.

You just got off, if I'm not mistaken, the introductory kind of press conference, media availability for McKenzie Weeger. and Jonathan Hubert. So hey, give us some quick hits from that. Any highlights out of that availability? You know what? I think that, and, you know, I don't know if anybody read the story this morning,

but I think they kind of would confirm some of the things that people I spoke to around them told me, you know, that they had, you know, it was a shock. You know, it was 11 o'clock on a Friday night. They get a call from Bill Zito. And it's like, well, well, what the hell just happened?

So I think both of them were pretty shocked by what happened. One thing that I had kind of heard, you know, there was some preliminary discussions with Zito at the draft with both of their agents, you know, about extensions or future in Florida. And it seemed clear in those conversations that the Panthers worked, they'd be able to sign both of them. And I think once Matthew Kuch was, you know, became available to the Florida Panthers,

the landscape changed completely. And it was like if I can't get, and again, this wasn't from the introductory press conference. This is just some of the stuff that I gathered before this press conference. So sorry for the weird roadmap here. Jonathan Huberto did not say all this. But like, that landscape kind of changed. And it was like, okay, well, if I can't get, I can only get one of these guys. Well, maybe I'll just go and get this one who's younger and I can probably get cheaper, 9.5 on an eight-year deal. So the landscape changed pretty quickly, I think, for the Panthers. So that's kind of how you had this like huge shock for Huberto and McKenzie Weeger who, you know, their, their agents were having conversations about keeping those guys in Florida or

how they could keep them, those preliminary discussions. So that was one of the first things was just, you know, how surprised they were by what happened. It was a shock. It's, you know, the only team, those guys have ever played in the NHL, they were both drafted by the Panthers. Huberto was a top three pick. So I think it was, you know, upsetting for them. But throughout the weekend, they start getting texts and calls from whoever, Sean Monaghan, Elias, Lynn, home, Michael Backland, Chris Tann of Jacob Marks from guys on the team. They start talking to guys in the team. They talk to Bradshire living. They talk to their agents. You know, they kind of let it all sink in through the weekend. And now they're, you know, they're just excited to be somewhere where they're really

wanted. The flames made the trade to bring them in for a huge player. So I think they feel wanted. I think they're, you know, one of the great quotes from that was McKenzie Weaker being like, you know, this isn't a rebuild. You don't bring Johnny and I, this is the new Johnny Hockey in Calgary, I guess. You don't bring Johnny and I in to rebuild. We're here to win, and we're very excited to start winning with this team. So I think that was a big one. It's really early. And, you know, they were just, look, I don't, I think it's great that they said this, but I don't think you can really read too much into that. They said, you know, we're open to staying in Calgary. They haven't even stepped foot in Calgary yet. You know, I think there have been some talks that have, you know,

preliminary talks with tree living and the age instead of begun. But again, that was one of the things that I wrote this morning before this press conference is, you know, with Weaker specifically, he's, you know, very open to exploring a long-term extension in Calgary. And both them are very excited to play back in Canada. It's something they never thought they, they do, you know, they thought they were going to be in Florida forever. And now they're really excited to be in Canada. I think they're both, you know, both of these guys have seen the Daryl Sutter clips on social media and on TV. And so they're like, you see it from the outside, but like, you know, we're excited to play for him.

You know, he's the coach of the year. You know, I think McKenzie Weger specifically is going to fit really well into Daryl's system. He's such an elite defenseman, especially in transition, which is, you know, something that the flames really needed last summer in the last summer Jesus last season in the playoffs. So he's going to fit perfectly. And I think the best quote, it was my question. I asked Jonathan Hubertoe.

I can't believe it. I'm playing the hits here, guys. I asked Jonathan Huberto, you know, you're going to have the opportunity to play with Elias Lindholm, who not just scored 40 goals, but was a Selkie finalist last season. Like, what do you think of the potential to do that if that's the way that the lineup shakes out?

And he just kind of like smirked and said, I hope he scores 50 with me. And I think that just, it's just like, ooh. The Euberdo, the Euberdo Lendom thing is the most interesting part. And what if you put like to Foley on that other wing too? Like the flames now have an opportunity to continue to have an incredibly like talented goal scoring first line. Like, you know, because I mean, Huberto is one of the best passes in the game. I think there's a really interesting debate here.

If you just take Jonathan Huberto, Matthew Kachuk, Johnny Goddrow, who's going to have the best season? next year. I think it's going to be Jonathan Huberto. Well, I mean, okay, so the way I worked in Florida is when they needed, when they needed forwards to get kick started, at least from a point production standpoint, because we know that Euberdo is not a perfect defensive player and his five-on-five impacts aren't great, whatever. But when they needed to get guys started, they would plan with him. They wouldn't plan it. They wouldn't play him with Barkov. So Euberdo is the guy who- Look at Sam Bennett. Sorry to cut you off.

Sam Bennett, Anthony, Anthony Duclair, Carter-Varhegey was on that line. Like, there have been guys who've played with Euberdo and watched their production, you know, skyrocket. The flip, the flip side of that. And I think the biggest reason I think that this is going to be a big, a big boon for Euberdo is that he didn't play with Barkov all that much. So for, you know, for as limited as it seems like he might be defensively and for as bad as the numbers are, it always comes with the asterisk that that guy was not playing with the super elite two-way center on that team.

And that is going to be different now. going to play with Elias Lindelm who, yeah, maybe Elias Lindelm does score 50 goals because he's got the shot and he's got the release and all that. The flip side might be that Elias Lindelm's defensive capabilities. Like he's going to be hands down the best defensive line mate that Jonathan Euberto ever had. So maybe he frees him up to have an actual MVP caliber season. That's that's the dream, right? Is that Uberdo, Uberto's not like he's not on the peripheral. He's not like he doesn't have this asterisk next to him because it's like he gets caved in at times at five on five. in whatever. Like the complete season that people have been looking for, it seems like it honestly could be on the way with him. And like we just have to look at Matthew Kachuk and Johnny Goddrow last season. And the things that they said, you know, the best,

the reason why Johnny Goddrault was such a good defensive forward last season was because he was never in the defensive zone. And that's part of the Daryl Sutter system. You know, look, Johnny did did a lot of things. well to improve his two-way game. I think that was the most complete version of Johnny Goddrault that we saw. But, you know, even Matthew Kachuk was saying, like, it's really easy to play defense when we're just cooking in the offensive zone the whole time.

And it's really easy to play defense when Elias Lindholm's back there doing everything to free us up to just cook in the offensive zone. And I think it's a really good point, Sean. Like Huberto is going to just get to hang out in other team zones with Elias Linholm and either a new forward the flames acquire because they need to get. one more, or Tyler Tofoli, who has a, he is the most naturally gifted goal scorer on the Calgary Flames. And last season, they had a real issue trying to find him linemates to just get him the puck. We saw it in Montreal. When, when players are threading like, quote unquote,

high danger passes or slot passes to Tyler Toffoli, he is one of the best in the league at scoring on those opportunities because he is a naturally gifted goal scorer. And just the thought of Huberto threading passes to Tyler Tofoli or Elias Lenholm next season is something to be really excited about. Again, they have a lot more to do. But I just think it's really interesting. Again, I think maybe this should have been a multiple choice madness question. But I think, like, which one is going to have the best season next year? Is it Huberto, Kachuk, or Goddrow?

And I kind of think it's Hubert. Hey, let's do that right now. Let's do that as a multiple choice question because I do think it's great because Goodrow is going to go to Columbus and he's going to have an opportunity to be the guy. Cichuk is going to go to Florida and join as we talked about a very talented lineup. But man, it's a great, it's a great debate amongst those three players because I think each of them was coming off a hundred point season last year, right? And there's an argument to be made that, you know, all of them could be a hundred point guys

again. I think I agree with you, Haley. I think it might be Jonathan Huminole that ends up with, um, with, you know, the most points amongst those three players next season because he's going to have a he's going to have a great opportunity to go to Calgary and he's going to be super motivated as a pending UFA right like super motivated and who's been underpaid who's been underpaid for the last few years by the way yeah he only makes like johnson jubra's been at five nine yeah i was talking my dad about this yesterday i was like talking him about everything he's like that's all

that jonathan he wrote he was like that is unbelievable so what happens when you sign long-term deals when you're, you know, 23 or whatever it is. Yeah, that's the break of the game. Oh, my God. Same type of thing, right? By the way, last three seasons, okay, last three seasons, here's the point totals for those three guys. Jonathan Hubertoe 254, Johnny Guadro 222, Matthew Kuchuk, 208.

So Huberto has the most points amongst those three players by a fairly healthy margin, too. So I think Uberda is now we can get we can get into specifics and split hairs in terms of like what does the quote unquote best season look like, right? But I think in terms of points, I can't I'm I wouldn't put money on either of those other guys. That's for sure. Because it's because Uberdo like you said, Ian, he just gave the numbers. Like he's got he's got the track record and he's got the line mates still. And we don't know.

I mean, I think it's safe to say that whoever Johnny Godro ends up playing with is not going to be on. par with Elias Lindholm or Tyler. You don't think Patrick Lines on that tier? I think he could be. In spurts throughout the season. In spurts. For 82 games. Not over, not in a, over the course of a seven-month season. And who's the center going to be? Is Johnny, is Johnny, is Johnny, is Johnny Goodgerow going to put up 115 points playing with Boone Jenner or Cole Cillinger or one of those guys? It's not to knock those players, especially Cilinger. With a really good year as an 18-year-old rookie, like... Boone Jenner is fine, but he's not Elias Lindholm. He's on Elias Lindel.

So I think smart money has to be on Eubrido putting up the points. Now, in terms of, you know, across the board numbers, I guess that's where, you know, maybe you wait and see. And by the end of it, we're saying maybe one of those other guys, one of the other two had had a quote-unquote better season. But points, man, it's Eubredo in a walk. Yeah. And you know what?

I got to ask both of you this question because I, I, I think a lot of us figured Brad Trill Living was in a tough spot. Like, there's no way he's going to hit a home run out of this. And it's the classic, okay, you're getting four, if somebody told you you're getting four pieces back for Matthew Kachuk, you would think it's the classic. You'd trade a dollar and get four quarters. Absolutely.

I know both of you, you know, I've weighed in on trade grades and whatnot. Like, I mean, how much credit do we have to give Brad Trilliving here for coming, pulling this rabbit out of his hat? I think the wildest part of all of this, of the way stuff went down on Friday night, is it theoretically or intellectually or whatever you want to say, we knew that Florida could have been a landing spot because it ticked a bunch of boxes for Matthew Kachuk, right? It's an American market. Everybody loves playing in Florida because there's no state income tax,

which can save you a million dollars over the course of, you know, a year, basically, if you're Matthew Kachuk, you know, big market seems like you like South Florida, blah, blah, blah. There were reasons to believe that Matthew Kachuk, if he had his way, if he took out the cap, if he took out all those other factors, that South Florida would be a potential destination. And we also reported that. It was a bit of time. Yes, absolutely. It was in you and you and you and Jeremy Rutherford reported that they're on the short list. Now, for me, when you're going through that sort of stuff and going through the reporting that you guys did, and you're trying to find out how to get Matthew Kachuk to all these various destinations, right?

okay, he would like to go to Florida. How do we get him to Florida? It was a tough, it was a tough. We did this exercise, right? We left Florida off. We did the seven trade destinations and we're like, well, how do we make that work? What are they going to get? Even still, even still, when we're going to trade them for.

When we're going through that, we knew on some level, because this was a thing in Montreal, like, at the draft, that like, maybe, is Florida going to trade McKenzie Weeger? Are they going to be able to pay him? Their cap situation was a disaster? at that point, couldn't buy out Hornquist, couldn't move him, all that stuff. So you knew these pieces of it, right, where you knew that Uberdow was a UFA, and you knew that Uighur seemed like he could potentially be a trade casualty, and you knew that Matthew Kachuk, like, certainly wouldn't have minded landing in South Florida. And even still, it was that much of a shock on Friday night for that to happen.

And I think that speaks to Ian, like you said, like how good a job true living did. This was not a four quarters for a dollar deal. You know, yes, maybe Matthew Kuchuk is the best player going back. But, man, that was given the circumstances, I don't think you can do anything other than give him major, major props for it. Yeah, I think it was a, I think Tree Living got himself a win. I think that if it was just McKenzie, if it was just one year of McKenzie Weeger plus a prospect plus a pick, then you're like, I don't know.

but it's McKenzie Weeger and Jonathan Huberto and a first round pick and a prospect whom Weiger and Hubertow spoke pretty highly of. I think this guy sounds like he'll be, you know, a really good. He's an NHL player in the bottom six-year lineup. He's a big center. He can P-K. He's not a flashy going to be your top-line guy, but you need players like that too. You flesh us out in your piece a little bit this morning.

Like, it's worth the risk. And even if it's six months from now or whatever in your Bradtree living and you have the sense that Uberdo and we are going to walk or it's not going to work or they don't want to be there, you flip them at the deadline, you move them for other assets if you have to. So yeah, I don't know. I loved everything about it for Calgary. I think the real test, and I put this in my story, the real test of this deal is going to be, does this open their window of contention for three years plus?

You know, I think one year of McKenzie Weger and Jonathan Hubertow is great. I think the flames needed a win. I think the fans needed a win. Weager even said he's like, you know, somebody asked him about, you know, Bradtree Living said that, you know, people have been taking body shots at Calgary and it's been a really hard time, et cetera. And, you know, Weiger said, hopefully we can come in and win and be a playoff contender. And we can limit some of those blows that the city and fans have been taking.

So I think these guys, you know, I think, because I think the. problem with saying they're going to flip them at the deadline is the Pacific Division is not going to be good. The Western Conference is probably not going to be all that good. I think it's going to be the same five, six teams jostling at the top, trying to compete with Colorado and with, and if we're in Hubertow work the way we think they are, I think the flames are going to be competitive, especially if they go out and get one more piece. So the issue is, is Calgary just going to be in the same spot with Johnny Goddrow where they said, okay, well, we don't have them signed. We think they want a sign, but we're really good.

We can't do this. And that's the fear, if you're a fan, that it's going to be groundhog day. I think there's so many ways that this could potentially go wrong. I do think this is a win. I think this is a really positive step. I think it's good that they're already having discussions about long-term extensions. The flames have so much caps base next offseason and no other big players assigned. The only two guys who need extensions next summer are Yuso Valamaki, who is not

cracked into the NHL yet in Connor Mackie, who was a third pair defenseman. And then they have $36 million. So Bradtree Living needs to go to these guys early, like this offseason and sign them to long-term deals with the massive amount of cap space that they have. And then he needs to go and get another piece to contend. I think that's the test of this deal. Because if it's next July and Hubert-O and Uyghur and Uyghur and Uyghur and you've only gotten a couple things, well, okay, fine, like you've got a couple assets in return. But if this doesn't kick the window open for more than just one year, it doesn't, it doesn't matter because then you're just right back to where you would have been. I think it's great. It's a win. It's a, it's a home run for Bradtree Living right now.

But it's something that we're going to have to reassess next summer when we see what the Calgary Flames look like. It's like a home run, but there's like a video review. Like I don't know, might be a foul. Like a really late one, you know, like an hour later. It's like wait. You know, It's whatever VAR and soccer, it just pisses everyone off. Did it hit the paint? Did it hit the yellow paint at the soft of the wall? Yeah. It's going to be something that, you know, it's that, what was it, a nine-minute review

and a Panthers game, wasn't it? It's that nine-minute review that pisses everyone off. And you're like, hello, can we get going here? I think this is, I think it's a great move. I think Tree Living pulled a rabbit out of a hat when everyone, like, look at some of the trade proposals, Sean and I were getting on Twitter. They were horrific. Everyone was like, well, he has no leverage.

He has no leverage. It's like, sure, but this is still Matthew Guch we're talking about. And you look at St. Louis's deal. I think, I just think that this was just such a win because of what we were all preparing ourselves to assume they were going to get back, which was, you know, one of the things that we are saying, you know, if you can get Jordan Cairo a first round pick and, you know, maybe Jake Neighbors or Zach, Zachary Bulldock, or like, you get. Kairu, a pick and a prospect, and you're good, you're fine. Nobody assumed that they were getting two elite players at return. Nobody. I mean, I think there was some guy on a YouTube channel that said that this was going to happen,

and I would love to talk to this man. I don't know how he did it. I think there was some, I saw a video. This guy predicted it. When was it posted? I don't know. I don't remember, but somebody posted being like, holy shit, this guy basically said this was going to happen. And I was like, who is this man?

And what powers do you have? Florida Panthers insider. Can you give me some lottery numbers? No, it wasn't an insider. I don't know. Maybe it was. I just saw it on Twitter and was like, holy crap. Let me ask you this.

I got another surprise, multiple choice question for you, Haley. Actually, for both of you. You tell me, Haley probably has a better better read on this than the two of us, but I'm curious to hear what your answer is. Who gets booed louder when they return to Calgary next season?

Johnny Goodro or Matthew Kachukh? Johnny. God. I think it's Johnny because of the way he did it. I think just read between the lines of everything that like Tree Living and Matthew even yeah even Matthew have said like like he made a point to say all this stuff. Tree Living thanked Matthew. Yeah. Like yeah we were put in a really difficult situation but I want to thank Matthew could chuck for being open and honest with us through this whole situation because that's what he did. And look, anybody and this is the thing, all you had to do that we knew this was happening for years and this was

the thing that bothered me this season is I kept trying, I'm like the, whatever, the sky is falling chicken or whatever. Like, Matthew could, the sky is a little little chicken dude. That's actually, no, no, that's actually his full name is the sky is falling chicken. His friend's calm, chicken little. Whatever, that little chicken man who's yelling that the sky is falling. Like, Matthew with Chuck's agency, like in Newport sports, like they are all about giving the best leverage, the most control, the most flexibility and money possible to their clients. You know, we saw this even with Brady. We saw this with Mark Stone, Ian.

Josh Norris just signed a big ticket. They hit every time. And Matthew's three-year bridge deal was a tour to force in leverage and power for your player. Like they signed a three-year deal with the base salary being $9 million in year three, which would guarantee that when Matthew Kachuk turns 25 years old, he can either cash in a massive ticket or say, I'm out of here, I'm going where I want. It was specifically engineered to give him this control. I think everybody who was paying attention knew that. And Matthew, once he got to the

end of this point, he said it to JR, Jeremy Rutherford. You know, Matthew even said, I signed that deal for a reason. And then when the summer came, I sat down and thought about it. And I told Bradham right when I knew that I wanted something different. You know, like he at least went to Bradtree Living and said, yeah, I need something new. And it was a really hard choice. He didn't, you know, but he told him early. And he, Matthew could have said, trade me to St. Louis. I want to go home.

But he said, I will give you a list instead. Instead of just saying, I'm going here, trade me. And then the flames would have been in a terrible situation where they're getting Teresanko Scandelle in a first round pick. You know, I think Matthew. Scandale is a terrible. It's easily the point. Like take one year of Teresanko who wanted out last year.

I think he rescinded that request and he had a great season last year. It's like take one year of Teresanko, a lottery protected pick and a cap dump. I don't know if I take that for free, given the cap stuff. But anyways, my whole roundabout thing here is that I think, like, Matthew was transparent about the process and what he wanted early. and they worked together to get the best deal for Matthew and the best deal for Bradtree living in the flames. And I think that, you know, the way he handled that put the flames in a better situation. Look, I heard that this was a really hard choice for Johnny Godreau.

I think he agonized over what to do. I think he, I don't think Johnny had his mind made early in the offseason and lied. But I do think that if, you know, we read some of the quotes from John Johnny's press conference in Columbus saying that right when Columbus came came into play, I said, that's where we want to be. Like, if Johnny was at the point of doing that much due diligence on the Columbus Blue Jackets in the off season that he knew right away that he wanted to sign there, I think if he was doing that much, he probably could have told the flames, hey, I think I want to sign somewhere

else. Or he wasn't telling the truth about the moment of blue jackets. Right. And I think for, if you're Bradtree living, like, what was he supposed to do? assume that Johnny was lying and say like, never mind, we're going to just move on. He said he's like, we believed that there was a very good chance from last summer to now that Johnny was going to stay. And then he didn't.

Like, they thought they were negotiating in good faith. If Brad didn't think they were doing that, he would have just moved on. So anyways, I think, I don't think either of them get booed, but if someone's going to get booed worse, it's probably going to be Johnny. Yeah. I talk a lot. Sorry about that. Listen, I do think that.

me to wrap up? Was I rambling? Enough. Haley rambling? No, never. Shots fired. Hey, I do want to talk about... No, wait, what's really important is we just keep the structure here, baby. Let's have A, B, and C blocks. Let's get moving. Come on.

I do want to get to, I think what is arguably the biggest story in hockey right now, it's an uncomfortable topic, but one that I think needs to be addressed. and I should point out that as we're recording this, Hockey Canada has just released what they're calling an action plan to, quote, shatter the code of silence and eliminate toxic behavior in and around Canada's game. They have come up with a comprehensive plan that they say will have a tracking and reporting system

for all complaints of maltreatment abuse or harassment. They're going to, they're vowing to publish these annually in a public forum to hold hockey Canada accountable. They're demanding that we're going to see an increased training for players, coaches, employees, and volunteers with an additional focus on masculinity, consent, toxic behaviors, and to drive a culture in hockey that encourages all participants to speak up. These are some of the things that they're bringing up. I just simply think that this is a horrific story that is not going to be solved with a press release. I think a lot of people are waiting for some action here and not words. I think we need to tip our hat to TSN's request head for once again being a leader in this story and uncovering more horrific acts that allegedly occurred in 2003.

But I am very curious what the two of you think this week is going to hold because we've got more hearings with Parliament in Canada, which I'm going to attend on behalf of the athletic here in Ottawa. We've got obviously this stuff brewing here with Hockey Canada is saying we're going to be taking actions. Like I'd like to see a full house cleaning here and a complete tear it down to the studs. But I don't know what to expect. But I'm just curious what,

what if anything, the two of you think will come in the week ahead? I don't know. I don't know what's going to come in the week ahead. I just, I just listen to what you're saying and I flip through this and it's just like, why? It's so reactionary. It shouldn't take a horrific, you know, set of circumstances for this to be important to governing bodies in this sport and just in life in general.

It should not take investigations like this and scenarios like this to say we are going to commit to not allowing this to happen. This should not happen. And you should have had a commitment to make it not happen years ago. Like this, like, that's great. I'm glad that Hockey Canada is going to do something. Perfect. Like, at least you're doing it now. No, no. Like, that just feels gross to say at all. Like, this, this is reactionary. Glad you're doing this, but it should have happened sooner. Like, there should have been commitment to not let this happen way before. I know. I know. that these statements are worded very carefully and they're worded

in such a way to not open organizations like Hockey Canada up to further litigation and whatever. Like this is run through legal and it's run through PR and the wording on Ian, the statement that you just read, it's tortured in spots, right? Because there's just so many different levels where you have

to filter it through. But this is that, we've seen this from them a couple times over the last few weeks where it's like, yes, the culture of silence and hockey needs to end, as if they had nothing to do with creating it in the first place. That is the craziest part of this. Yeah.

Where it's like, we're like, yeah, this. Yeah, like, boy, boy, this really sucks. I wish there was something we could have done about this beforehand. And we're definitely not the major propagator of it. Like this, like, what, huh? If they wanted, and I think, Haley, you say in its reactionary is, is, that's, that's as good a word as any as you can choose. there's also just there's a lack of

there's a lack of responsibility being taken and I think there's a level of delusion in these kind of statements that goes beyond just insulating yourself legally and insulating yourself from a from a PR standpoint. Like they are responsible for creating this. It's not

just something that they're fixing in preventing out of the goodness of their hearts. It's not something they're investing and that they're interested in stopping and they're coming in as a third party who's who's trying to help end this. They created it. The silence of the culture of silence in hockey and the toxic masculinity that's on display and all these, all these horrible, horrible, you know, this endless stream of examples because God knows there's going to be more.

It's their fault. They're responsible for it. So congratulations on trying to combat a problem that you create it. That's basically what they're saying here. And I hate to fall back on like the guy in the hot dog suit meme like there's no way like who who did this. There's there's there's we're all trying to find the guy who did this. That is hockey Canada. That's what they're saying. We're all trying

to find the people who created this this culture of silence and this culture of misogyny and all this like it's them. It's not just them but but it's them in a major major part. So I hear these statements. The big one like the big one that you read is

gross. The stuff we heard last week is gross. There's a total lack of, you know, a lack of a lack of perspective and a kind of disconnect with reality in their own role in the creation of all of this. And I just want to say Ian has talked about this so much over the, like how many times have we had to have this conversation about shit like this that happens? And Ian, every single time you say, these young men need to be put in, like, they do social media training. They do. They training on how to not tweet something stupid. They train to skate and they train to do all this stuff and they're not taught how to just like not, like just, I don't even know the right word.

They're not taught to not do shit like this. And you've said before, Ian, like they need in those seminars and in those like preseason things, there should be something where somebody comes in about diversity, inclusion. Like they need that that stuff needs to start at the grassroots level because there's just something missing with, and it's not all of them. I know that. Don't yell at me. Not every person who plays hockey is doing this, but we are talking about a very bad situation.

And Ian, like they basically are saying they're going to do the thing that you've been talking about every single time for, we've done this podcast for over two years now. This, what is it? The enhancing training for players, coaches to include a focus on masculinity, consent, and toxic behaviors. Ian, you've been saying that, but I also just think the fact that, they need to have like a lesson plan on how on consent it's just wild to me it's wild let's teach everyone what consent means like holy shit these guys are coming in and we got to get

to these young men earlier than 16 17 18 we got to get to them when they're 12 and 13 and 13 and you know it's you know I also wonder what the two of you think like what's the role of the media and how much blame do we take as media for enabling this culture of silence. Let's be honest here. In the in the sport of hockey, there have been two reporters, Rick Westhead and Katie Strang, who have knocked down the doors and tried to use their flashlight to shine a light on this. And the rest of us kind of sit back and we're like, well, that's a Rick Westhead story. That's a Katie Strang story.

I think it's a story for all of us. And I think it's a story specifically for NHL insiders. I don't thought like I'm all of us yeah yeah but but but also the people who are tapped into the league in hockey Canada at the highest levels which like can could I have could I have done more over the last couple years with this like absolutely like everybody everybody needs to take a part but if you were talking specifically about rooting out bad actors in reporting and doing Rick Westhead and Katie Strang caliber stuff that should be a lot easier for all the people who are who are tight with folks at hockey Canada and tight with GMs. and tight with power brokers in the league. And guess what? That ain't me. So, like, I'll take whatever. Like, I totally agree.

Everybody needs to play their part. Yeah. But as a citizen, what, not just a media person, what gets me mad is, is, is that it is just Rick and Katie. When we know for sure. They can't be the only ones who've ever heard of this before. Uh-huh. No. Right.

And I'm not trying to, like, name any name specifically, right? Like there's a, there's a lot of people that are very, very tapped in who have not said word A about any of this stuff. And it shouldn't fall on, and it shouldn't fall on Katie, and it shouldn't fall on Rick. And it shouldn't fall on anybody in particular. But like, when you have, when you have all the connections and you're not using them to hold people accountable, like, those are the questions that I'm asking. And yeah, some of it needs to be inward, inward facing, right?

Where we need to ask ourselves what we can do individually. But there is. There's a level of anger on my part, at least, when you look at the fact that it really is. At the highest level, it's only two people who are doing the groundwork. And we know for sure that Rick and Katie aren't the only people with the Rolodex and the ability to get these people to talk. That is a guarantee. Well, I think it's not the Rolodex, though. It's asking the right questions, right? You can have all the same contacts. but if you're not poking around on that kind of stuff, you're not going to uncover it. And I think that's a big part of it is asking the right questions and holding people accountable. Like, look, like I cover women's hockey at the international level. That is a hockey Canada thing. I've never heard this before.

I've never covered World Juniors before. I don't cover the men's side for hockey Canada. But at the same time for me, I look at this and go, like, Jesus, like all the people I talk to, Like, am I, what am I doing wrong? Am I not asking the right questions? Am I not poking in the right spots? I just think that it's, it's so easy even for me to sit back and say, like, Katie Strang does it again. Like, she's so amazing.

But Katie Strang didn't become Katie String by, like, ignoring and turning a blind eye to stuff that's difficult and hard and might make people hate her. You know, that's a thing I think a lot of people in this industry combat is, you know, and it's even on like the smaller level of like a, I know the ex-player sign. finding here, oh, well, I know this is going to happen, but I'm not going to say that this is going to happen because I don't want to piss off why. And I think so much of this sport becomes so transactional of like, well, if I keep this secret, what am I going to get? And that's on a smaller scale. That's on the like signings and trade scale. I just, I think that again, like Katie didn't become Katie, Rick didn't become Rick by being afraid of pissing off people in power. They want to hold people in power accountable.

But I think we need to also rip a little bit on the league and the executives. Like think about there's a great piece of footage. Rick Westhead goes after Gary Bettman about concussions. And Bettman just shoots him down, like, as if he's like this, you know, one of those, you know, gotcha reporters. Katie Strang will tell you that when she shows up sometimes at NHL events, people will scatter from her because it's like, She's like a bowling ball. I've seen that. Literally watch it happen in Montreal.

Yeah. We were walking somewhere. It was like, it was the Red Seas parted. And so ask yourself that. Ask yourself. Why are they so afraid? Why are you so afraid of Katie Strang?

Why are you so afraid of Rick Westhead? And the answer is because you probably know that they're coming after. But they're painted as the bad people in our industry. Like in the hockey world, Rick Westhead and Katie Strang will never. Let me put it this way. They will never get into the Hockey Hall of Fame as reporters, and yet they should be at the top of the list.

Like, think about... Rick Westhead should be inducted right now for what he's done in the last 12 months in this sport. Think about the Blackhawks Presser, which we were all on. They thought that they could get away. Betman and Bill Daly thought they could get away with not letting Rick ask a question.

Like the level of... And LeBron's like, hey, Rick Westhead's had his hand for a while. Credit to Pierre. And like, all right, he spoke up on Rick's behalf. Holy hell. Yeah. And you know what? And again, we did this last summer.

Mark Lazarus and Scott Powers did not shy away from really important work. It would have been very easy for them to say, well, I've got to go in that room and talk to them about the power play tomorrow. So I don't want to put the feet to the fire because I've got to go in there. They didn't do that. They worked with Katie on this. They pushed the story forward. they weren't the ones that broke it open, but they were a part of it once it came up,

came up. And I think that's, that's not easy to do based on what we've seen in this sport. Not a lot of people will do that. They'll leave it to Katie because she's national and she can take it on the teeth. And they're like, screw it. I'm going to do this too. This is important.

And I think that took a lot. I think that was a real, that was something that I think really impressed me with, with Laz and Scotty. They did not shy away from this, even though they need to be there every day. And Ian, I have a lot, I have a lot of respect for you because as you've stepped in in the last, whether it's the Melnick report, I mean, we know that that was a long time coming, but the story that you and Romston and Katie did last week, like one night, one night in London.

Like, I have a lot of respect for you for stepping up and becoming a voice, you know, in a force in that space. I think the problem here, and this goes for any of us, this goes for the three of us, this goes for any media. person that's, you know, that's in the game, really. You run the risk of looking at people like Katie and Rick and saying like, nope, they're good. They got it handled. Like, we don't have to worry. Like, that's their, that's their lane. We can stay in our lane. Any sort of misconduct, culture, toxicity thing. Like, that's their beat. They can handle that. Thank you so much for doing the dirty work for all of us. Like, we're all lucky to have Katie and Rick. And that is not the right way to approach this. Like, it needs to be a holistic top down thing.

Or anybody, whether it's me doing the power rankings in podcasts every week or local beat reporters or the top tip-tip-ty-top of the industry, like everybody needs to do their part. It cannot just fall on Katie Strang and in Rick Wested in this small group of people who are dedicated to rooting the shit out. It needs to come from everybody. And it needs to start at the top and go all the way down to people who are covering junior hockey in the minor leagues and whatever else. Like it needs to go all the way down. It can't just be those two people. And for as good as they are, you know, that's not, it's not, it's not, it is such a deep rooted thing that it's not possible for Katie and Rick to handle every act of malfeasance and misconduct that happens across this entire sport. It's a, it's a, it's a cultural change and it's got to continue happening.

All right. So Ian had to run. We've been talking for a while. I think we covered Matthew Kachuk and Jonathan Huberto and McKenzie Weger. I don't think you have anything else to say about that. I think it's a win now. We'll see how it ends up being. We're good on that. We got to get like a final count of the number of words that have been written about Matthew,

about whatever. Well, I know I've done. betrayed. A ton. How long is that thing we wrote that was supposed to run on Saturday? We had a whole thing. Another three-th out, like a 3,500 word story that we were supposed to have out. The two of us wrote, 350 hundred words with like all these different scenarios.

It was supposed to run on Saturday at six in the morning or whatever. And then it got thrown in the trash at 11 p.m. on Friday. It's the biz, bro. But you know what? Actually, let's, so part of that story was we were evaluating trade scenarios that we got on Twitter. And Sean and I should discuss our favorite one. My favorite one was, what was it? It was Marco Rossi, a first round pick, and Ryan Souter's.

Dead cap. It was Suter, I believe it was Suter and Prizes. No, it was Suter slash Preezy, so like one or the other, I think. So for the one I just said, you know, let's just take one and it was Suter who was owed six and a half a year or something, over like 13.6 million in dead cat money over the next two years at least. And then there's some on the back end too. Like the next two years are the big ones. I think he's at like. There's a six, a seven of seven and then eight. 800,000, 800,000, 800,000. And, and, like, the cost of giving that dead cap to somebody would be, like, a first-round pick in Marco Rossi because of how much that is. Yeah, but like... Not the return for Matthew Kachuk. And I thought the funniest part was just like, imagine the conversation with Bill Garan being like, yeah, okay, we'll take the dead cap, but like throw in Matt Boldy, too, who

was like their great young prospect. And you could just know that Bill Garum would be like, Bill Garum would just like swear at, swear at you and hang out the phone. I've seen it happen. I don't know shit to do. Yeah, right? But like how, I mean, we're making fun of that. Making fun it's, it's Rossian.

I'm not making fun of that. Ross is a good player. It's just the dead cat that makes me. No, I am. I am making fun of it because that's just, that's a goofball deal that came from somebody on Twitter who's a wild fan and just wanted to land Matthew Kachuk on their team. So that's fine. It's understandable.

Is that deal better than the actual deal that St. Louis came up with? Because it was Teres. It's Teresanko. It's Marco Scandella who is... Cap-dump. Pure cap-dump for two more seasons. And then a lottery protected pick. I think if I were the flames, I would have rather had Marco Rossi.

in the suitor capstone. Right? That's better. Bill, why didn't you make the call? Who knows? It might have happened. Oh my God.

Yeah. The other funny thing that happened. But Tarasanko's good. I know there were some blues fans who were like mad at me for saying this deal is sucks. Like, okay. I mean, it does. Like, and that's what I said before.

Like, if it was just McKenzie Weeger and a pick, like that deal would suck. Because it's one guy for one. year and a pick. Teresenko's been on the trade block for a year. You could have gotten him for a scratch-off ticket last year. Like, yeah, but then he had a really good season. He's probably rescinded that trade request. It doesn't matter. He's a, he's a, uh, all right. Anyways, anyways, we've talked in. Anyways, how about this? Wait, wait, wait, don't. Okay. Don't shush me. Shut, shut up. Shut up. I have a very, I have a very professional segue. coming into the

what we originally planned on talking about in this segment. So we talked about a story of ours that was scrapped for Saturday morning. Another story that was scrapped for Saturday morning because of the Matthew Kuchukchuk trade is our staff predictions for the 2020-23 season where everybody voted on the cup

and the heart winners and the dark course and teams that are going to take a step back. We had to redo it because so many of the votes were contingent on Calgary getting rinsed in the Kachuk trade. So that changed the calculus for a bunch of stuff. So this story is now running on Monday, Monday morning. And this is what we're going to talk about now. I feel like you didn't have to shush me to get to that point.

I was going to say that. That's why I said anyways. Let's say anyways, let's talk about our predictions and you told me to shut up. I'm going to unplug your microphone. In front of thousands of people. Okay, so the aves, the abs are the winner. The abs are our staff. Okay, but I want to talk about that.

Do you think that Colorado is the shoe in to win again? Like I know, like, they might lose cadre. Like, is Georgiev, you know, better than Kemper? I don't see them taking a step back. Certainly not. But I'm just wondering, you know, are the, are the abs going to be maybe a little bit more vulnerable than they were last year. They don't have a lot of money. They signed a Chushkin, who was a great player. They lost Berkovsky. They still have McKinnon, Landisg

and Kael McCar, but their goaltending's different. Devon Taves is still there. I just wonder if the abs, I think there's still the front runner, but I do wonder if there's going to be a little bit of a, not even, I don't even want to call it a step back. I just wonder if they're less dominant than they were this year. I think there is, because it seems to me different. Yeah, there's clearly a desire, even if you just look at our vote breakdown, because this is whatever, 50 people or how many voted on it, 60. I forgot to vote on it, so don't. I had nothing to do with this. Didn't need to say that here. It's fine. The abs, the abs, the one with 38.6% of the vote.

I think that sounds about right. The surprising part of that from me is that Carolina is number two and they are at 31.8%. The drop from them to third place, which is Florida, it goes from 32 to 7%. That is the wild. That is the wild. That is the wild part to me because people clearly, I think this is more, I think this has less to do with whatever, with actual predictions and what ends up happening than it does with, it's almost like a behavioral exercise with the people who have to, who have to predict stuff like this. Because I think a lot of us were like, okay, I can't. I don't think you can pick the abs to repeat just because it's tough to do and it doesn't, you know, whatever. And the beneficiary of that, because the West is so weak.

Ended up being Carolina. You're like, all right, who can they, who are they going to play in the, in the cup final? Who is, who is the best team in Eastern Conference? Who is a team that made, that got a lot better over the last month? Oh, Carolina. So the end result is you have, you have 32% of the staff picking them to win to win the Cup. It's crazy. I think it's interesting. too because like they are a team who's been knocking on the door and part of their problem in the postseason this year and even last year has just been like their goal scoring drying up when they need it the most i think max patcheretti went healthy you know he's a prime not like a prime time goal score that should help i think their top six looks really strong the one question i have for you

and obviously we're going in a couple different directions here now but is brent burns at his age in the mileage, an upgrade on Tony DeAngelo? Yes. Why? I'm not saying I'm like, I don't, I don't have an opinion. I'm asking. I think it's interesting. The offensive production is pretty, is on par.

And he's a much better defensive player at this point in his career. He's bigger. He's bigger. He's good. He's good in front. Yeah. I know we say that that's like a hockey man thing, but like a big body on the blue line to like box out and block shots is huge.

Guess when that, does that count in December or February? Like, maybe not so much. I'll tell you when it does count. Yep. Yep, yep, yep. And Brent Burns has experience going deep in the postseason too. And he's a workout freak. Like I think, I can't matter if it was Sod or Shapiro.

One of the Dallas, you know, kind of centric guys wrote about, about, or no, it was Corey. It was actually Corey Madasek. Corey wrote about him with the sharks, like his workout regimen and just what it, what a maniac is. So yeah, Burns is 37 or however old he is now, but I don't know. I bet on him,

I bet on him getting more bang for your buck than Tony, than Tony DeAngelo. I think he's an upgrade and then you throw in what they got for DeAngelo and that flyers trade. It's a total, a total no-brainer. Yeah. I think I'm kind of interested in this,

like if you look at some of the best defensemen, like the best D additions or status, quo, is it not Chris LaTang and Brent Burns this summer? Like the Penguins retaining Chris LaTang and the Cain's trading for Brent Burns were those two of the best blue line moves this season. Like I think it's really interesting that it's a 36 and 37 year old that people are maybe not acknowledging are still incredibly good defensemen. Because like who even, who's the competition?

One's John Klingberg who, you know, who knows who knows where he is right now. Yeah. in Jeff Petrie. Like those are, those are the two guys who were, who started the off season on top of the list of, you know, potentially available,

available demon, right? Or I guess, I guess you have to throw a tag in there because he was, he was on the verge of, of hitting the market. But no, those guys are, those guys are hands down.

I don't care that they're 35 and 36 and 37, or however old they are. I'll take them, I'll take them a hundred times. What, what, what's even the alternative? Well, for the Penguins,

losing. losing Crystal Tang, like take out the fact that he's a franchise icon. Losing Crystal Tang would have made their blue line worse. There's not a lot of players. There's not a lot of pieces you could, you know, upgrade Crystal Tang with. Anyways. I'm just glad you said that, so I didn't have to say it again for the 500. No, I, one of the things that I, like, bang on the table about is, like, prime

Crystal Tang should have had at least one Norris trophy. And he's someone who should still be on ballots now. He's very, very good still. It doesn't matter how old he. is he's another workout maniac. You're preaching to the choir. Yes. Um, driving, driving the Chrysletang bus for many, many years now. Yeah, I'm that little, I'm not that kid who just wants to talk to the bus driver who sits like right behind, even though no one ever sits there. Hey, how's your day? Um, anyways, wait a second, that's always, that's always the kid that does

have many friends. Wait a second. Wait a second. I wasn't going to say that. That's mean. Um, Because I think I sat there sometimes. Anyways, let's move through. I don't really care about the runner up. The dark horses are interesting. Everyone's back on the Vegas bandwagon somehow. I don't know how the Vegas Golden Knights are in dark course. Okay, so I think, hold on.

I think the phrasing here is what. A team that missed the playoffs and could be a real contender. It almost has to be Vegas. I didn't want to vote. I didn't want to vote for him. I don't even, you know what? I don't even want to talk. about it.

Biggest drop off. Minnesota Wild. This is, this is Sends disrespect from you. That's why. No, I just don't want to talk about the wild.

Sends are interesting. I think the Senate, and Ian and I have spoken about this, the Ottawa top six on paper looks very good. I'm curious about what's going to happen in Nett, Foresburg and in Talbot. I think Talbot's been brought

into like insulate Foresburg. They can have like a 1A1B split, whatever DJ Smith decides. I still think they need to find a proper D partner for Thomas Shabbat. Like, sure, it could be Zube. Like, every fans love Artem Zub, and he's fine. But, like, the Sends need to fix that blue line.

Like, you've got to build from the back end out. Their top six looks great, but that blue line still needs some work. But I'm really curious to see what they end up looking like and what the combos end up being if it's Stutzla and Jeru and DeBrinke. And then you have, you know, Kachuk and Batherson and Norris, or you have Drew with Kachuk and Norris. I don't know how they're going to end up mixing those lines, but I think that that top six looks pretty solid.

I'm really curious to see how the Sends end up looking. The Red Wings got so love here, too. They're just going to wait for McKenzie Wigger to hit the market. That'll be that. I was dodging, dodging Chris Latang trade proposals from Sends fans all weekend. When everyone was like, well, the flames are going to blow it up. So what do you want for Chris Tandiv? I was like, nothing.

Wait, so you were dodging. dodging Christanav. Yes. Tristanev. You said Chris Latang. That'd be fun. Chris Latang in Calgary? Oh, in Ottawa?

Wherever. Biggest drop off. Even though we went back and changed it, Calgary's still up there. But Minnesota's number one. I think everyone's just looking for a team to move down in the West. I think that's, again, I don't look at this as being. I don't know why people aren't looking at Boston more. Yeah.

I think the way it works, the way. way it works on this one is you have the tops, you have Minnesota getting 20%, you have Calgary getting almost 17%. You have 37 of the votes split between two Western Conference teams. I think people are saying like, all right, Vegas has to make it, regardless of how, you know, funky things have gotten there, Vegas has to make it so who falls out? And you start like backfilling there and saying, well, the wild, the wild had to took a hit because of the, because of the suitor and preasy buyouts and blah, blah, blah. Flames. you know, even though they did well to replace, those guys are still short one Johnny Godreau.

So I think that's more what that is. People are just, people have internalized the idea that Vegas is going to be back in the playoffs and need to find a way to justify it. All right. Last one that we should talk about before we sign off, because my computer's dying. We've been talking for a while. First, coach fired. I would love to speak to the person who voted for Mike Sullivan. We need to find out who that is. Who, whomst? Whomst among us.

I know who wasn't. Who did that? It wasn't me. Really? Like what? Like just because, I don't even know. I would love to talk to someone who was just like, ah, penguins. Fenway Sports Group loves Mike Sullivan.

Can you believe it? Can you believe that the Fenway Sports Group loves the most Boston dude to ever. exist. I mean, he's also a good coach. And I think DJ Smith is up here. So Lindy Ruff got 31.8%. Dave Haxdall got 18.2%. Lindy Ruff is the layup vote here because if they don't turn the corner early, like maybe they'll blame the coach. Sheldon Keith. But also, but also, but also in Andrew Brunette, like he hears the footsteps because they clearly hired the guy who, you want to talk about Mike Sullivan. That's like when Jim Rutherford hired Mike Sullivan to coach the age. team. Right. Whenever,

whenever Mike Johnson was like, who was around. Yeah, that was it. Like, you might as well just, he might as well have just fired him then. That was the, like, Jeremy, Jeremy. Hmm? Keep going.

Go find it. I almost said, Jeremy Rutherford. Jim Rutherford. Yeah. Jeremy, did you guys know this? Listeners, listeners, I don't know where of this. Jeremy Rutherford is Jim Rutherford's son. Yeah. And Beavis's butthead's dad.

It's my vacation. I'm very tired. I'm sorry, everybody. What do you think? Anyway, whatever. You know what? I wanted to do. No, I was getting to something.

This is a serious question. Serious question. What do you think of DJ Smith at 11.4? That's what I was trying to get to. That's what I was trying to run down the list to get to DJ Smith. I think that it's unfair personally to say that DJ Smith has the hot seat. What coach could have done well with the Ottawa senators over the last three years? Not DJ Smith.

Well, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I think that it put, I think, I think Pierre Dorian going at the start of the season last year saying the rebuilds over made everyone's expectation for the team way higher than it should have been. And DJ Smith was never going to match that. Never. Not with that blue line. Look at who the Sends started the season with. And Matt Murray, who couldn't play more than five games in a row.

Well, he had that one pocket in the season where he was a 940 goalie. And then everything else was a disaster. Brady Kachuk missed the start of the season. Shane Pinto got hurt. Josh Norris got hurt. Drake Batherson got concussed by Aaron Dell. And he didn't get suspended for long enough for that. The Sends last year were a shit show.

And then they had the COVID. The Sends got hit by. COVID probably worse than any team did before the NHL started shutting it down. Who, what coach was going to do that? It's unfair to expect DJ Smith to do some Mike Sullivan type shit to keep the team competitive without Sidney Crosby, but because Mike Sullivan has Jake Gensel and Brian Rust and all these guys they can plug and play the lineup. DJ Smith had Michael Delzado, you know, like look at what he had.

I think it's unfair. I think he took it on the teeth, and I think that he was set up poorly for that. And I think that's a shame. I covered the sentence for a couple years. DJ is a defense first coach. I'm sure there's some players that the team is brought in or signed probably because of his preferences that did not work out, like the big defenseman. Like Erica Branson didn't work out great. You know, who else, who they have last year that wasn't great.

I don't even remember. But I just, I don't think that it's DJ Smith's fault. the team didn't turn the corner sooner. I think that here, Dorian finally made the moves to make them competitive. And now we will see what they can do with DJ. And he might not be the coach. He might not be it. But I think it's unfair to say that if the Sends aren't like second in the division by

November that he should be fired, I think you get, this is the year where you see what DJ Smith can do behind the bench. I totally agree. He's just, he's there because we're following the, what kind of coach gets fired. handbook or playbook, right? You're like, all right. Devils expectations up, sends expectations up. Yeah, we'll go with those guys.

Seattle sucked out loud last year. I'm sure Dave Hacksaw should get a lot of votes and Sheldon Keith is the coach of the Toronto, I believe. So there's always, even though that's totally, like, I don't think there's a lot of next level thought that goes into it. Like, people aren't saying. And I don't like calling for people's heads either.

It makes me feel uncomfortable. We'll just wrap up the rest here. Owen Power runaway Calder winner. Igor Shisterkin ran away Vezna winner because nobody knows how goaltending works. It's fine. Kiel McCar, 73% of the vote, says that he's going to win another Norris and 75% San Conner McDavid wins the heart. Also, everybody thinks that Patrick Kane and J.T. Miller and Vladimir Tarasenko are going to get traded. Okay, Kane is interesting, and I know we don't have a ton of time, but I think it'll be really interesting to see if he does end up getting traded.

Because the problem with trading Patrick Kane is like, why would he want to get traded to another rebuilding team. Like, he may as well just stay in Chicago. So how are you going to find a team that can contend who has the money to take on 50% of Patrick Kane? I mean, $5 million is easy to fit in than 10. And Blackhawks will need to retain salary. But I'm really curious. Everyone keeps doing the cane to Buffalo thing, but is now really the time to go home to Buffalo? No, it's probably not going to happen. Patrick Kane really likes Chicago and he really likes living in Chicago. Well, that's what I mean. I don't think he's in any rush. Like, I think he would rather just, if he's going to be on a rebuilding team, may as well just stay in Chicago.

We've played your whole career. Anyways, interesting. The West playoff field is interesting. Somebody has the Kings being better than the flames next season. Same with the Predators, which I think is kind of funny. There's a bunch of, we don't need to go through all the stuff. There's a bunch of, we get pretty granular, and there's write-ups from me and Shana and and Jesse Granger in there.

So if that interests you, that's on the site, like a lot of other stuff. we are about to enter the deep dark heart of the NHL offseason here. Like there's not going to be a lot going on for the next. The flames have been keeping us afloat, which is why we've talked about the flame so much this summer. Thank you, Matthew Kachuk. I'm not sure what I would have done for the last couple weeks without you, buddy. I mean, I would have just taken my vacation sooner, but that's just me. Anyways.

Good on you for being able to take a vacation. Some of us haven't booked PTO yet. I mean, you should do that. It's July 25th. Okay. Anyways, thanks everyone for listening to this episode of The Athletic Hockey Show. I don't know what Ian usually says at this point. Subscribe everywhere you listen on, on, wherever you listen to a podcast, Spotify, Apple Podcasts.

Listen to the rest of the show is in the week except for Tuesday because me and Cussons are not doing the show for a while. Yeah, they get an offseason, but Ian and down goes Brownshaw, MacKee. two will be back. The Wednesday roundtable, I think, has a show. Theathletic.com, sign to talk to show. Subscribe if you don't. Enjoy your week.