The Athletic Hockey Show - Matthew Tkachuk weighs-in on Brady Tkachuk’s contract situation, Jack Eichel expected to take Buffalo Sabres pre-camp physical, the Winnipeg Jets as Canada’s best team, and much more with Eric Duhatschek

Episode Date: September 20, 2021

First, Ian and Hailey are joined by The Athletic’s own Eric Duhatschek to discuss a variety of topics heading into the opening of NHL training camps this week including Matthew Tkachuk speaking out about his brother Brady’s contract situation with the Ottawa Senators, Jack Eichel reportedly heading to Buffalo to take his Sabres pre-camp physical, Zdeno Chara signing with the New York Islanders twenty-five years after he was originally drafted by the franchise, Artemi Panarin’s comments about shying away from the captaincy of the New York Rangers, the Winnipeg Jets as potentially the best Canadian team this season, and much more.Plus, to close things out, Ian and Hailey run through a series of Multiple Choice Madness questions including which NHL veteran should return to their original team for one more season, who should be this frontrunner for this year’s Calder Trophy, and which Original Six team will be the most interesting to watch this season.And, right now, you can save 50% on an annual subscription to The Athletic when you visit http://theathletic.com/hockeyshow Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hey everybody, we're back to kick off another week of the athletic hockey show. Ian Mendez-Haley-Salvian with you, as always, on a Monday episode of the show. We're going to be joined by our senior writer at the athletic, Eric DeHochick, and we're going to talk about the biggest stories around the National Hockey League here, heading into training camp for all 32 teams. Jack Eichel, reportedly heading to Buffalo to take his pre-camp physical. We'll chat about that. Matthew Kachuk fanning the flames, pun intended, of the Kachuk negotiations in Ottawa.

is Adano Chara's career comes full circle. He's back on the island. Artemi Panarin says thanks, but no thanks to being the captain of the Rangers and a whole bunch of other stories that we'd love to get into. But as we kick this off, Haley, like I said, Eric DeHocchik is going to join us.

And right off the top, we've got Eric. And I think this is a really interesting conversation, Haley, because Eric just told us in the corner, we'll call it the green room, right? Like the prep room and Zoom, that Eric, first of all, welcome to the athletic hockey show. It's great to have you.

Thank you. Haley and I are blown away by the fact that you have had the same landline with the same number since 1987. Well, I think that's probably as a function of my age because back in the, like I started covering hockey full time in 1980 when the flames moved from Atlanta. So this is my 42nd full-time year covering the NHL, 44 full-time years in the industry. And I still consider myself a newspaper, then, which is another one of those terms that has gone by the board. And if you factor in all of the freelance stuff I did as a student or whatever, it's approaching half a century. So it's getting a little bit to, I've been around a long time. But no, I've kept the same landline, you know, professionally for the longest time because a lot of the people that I've known a long time in the industry have it.

But there's only one reason why I keep it now. And that's because of my mother, who was turning 90. in a couple of months. And while she's quite robust, she has a difficult time typing in 10 digits, but she has my number memorized. And so other than the telemarketers who I can live without,

the only person I really want to talk to on the landline anymore is my mom. And it doesn't cost me that much to keep it because almost no one has a landline anymore. So I'm hanging on to it. I'm hanging on to it. Yeah, see when we were about to have you on, when Ian and I were in the green room for context for listeners, I said, you know what?

I have called Eric on his cell phone before and he's told me, no, no, no, call me on the landline. So I was very excited to see if you were going to dial in to the Zoom call via landline or if you were going to zoom in. But he's here. We can see Eric and no landline today. And Ian, I have had a landline before just for the record. Yes, because I know I like to call you old. I would never call Eric old. I'll call you old.

Okay. And you like to make fun of my youth. So I've had a landline. You know what? I've paid for a landline. I've never actually had one. You know, when you get the bundle with your internet and TV, and they're like, get a home phone.

It'll make it all cheaper. I'm like, sure. And I never actually get the actual phone. So I've kind of had a handline. Yes. So you have had a landline. I've had a landline via my parents. And, you know, Ian, I don't know, both of you, I don't know if you do this with

your kids, but I remember being really young and you'd like practice to like answer the home phone because your parents answer a certain way or whatever, like, Salvean residence, this is Haley. I don't know if your kids do that. But I remember like gassing myself up to answer the home phone. Got to be professional. No? Salvian residence.

This is Haley? It sounds like you're living in a mansion or something. No, I don't know. I was being polite, polite little kid. What happened to me? I don't know. I'll make you fun of my elders. Okay, here's what I want to know from both of you.

I'll start with you. First of all, Haley, have you ever used a pay phone in your life? Yeah. Yeah. It's too long of a pause there. I don't think you have. I was thinking about it. No.

I don't think you've used a pay phone. But more importantly, Eric. We used to file from pay phones. Yeah. I mean, when, yeah, when computer. first started to come in. So when I started, you know, Calgary Alberta in 1978, I worked on an Underwood typewriter. It wasn't even electric typewriter. It was if you, if you saw the front page with Jack Lemon and Walter Mathau and they had the Codora, that was what the newsroom of

the Calgary, Alberta looked like in 1978. So I've gone through eight to ten generations of computer technology. And I particularly remember the first year the flames were in the Stanley Cup final in 1986. We were in St. Louis, a very, very loud barn. And in those days, you used an acoustic coupler, and you had to take a telephone and connect it to these these, these couplers. And if there was too much crowd noise, the crowd noise would interfere with the transmission. So sometimes you'd have to go to the concourse of an arena and call on a pay phone and connect the acoustic couplers and file that way. I mean, it's, you know, the things that we used to have to, the hoops, we used to have to jump through to file at different times as the technologies. evolved were really challenging. It was often more challenging than the actual gathering of the

information and writing of the story. You know, trying to get it down the line to your newspaper at the time could sometimes be a night. I mean, we could spend the whole half hour talking about trying to file from Russia in 1987 when you had to book your landline phone call two days ahead of time to call your office because he couldn't just pick up your phone in your hotel and put a call through. You had to go through an operator and they schedule calls. And a lot of times it would be if it was Tuesday morning at 8 a.m. They would slot you in at Thursday morning at 3.30 a.m. You have to get up in the middle of the night to make your call.

Anyway, that's probably more information that you need. But yeah, I have used a pay phone in life. Oh, yeah. No, but see, I love those stories because I think it, I don't think we as current, like in the current media landscape, I don't think we have enough of an appreciation of the red tape and the hoops that reporters had to jump through in, you know, in the previous decade. So it's remarkable.

Now, last question on this before we jump into what is, I think, a very newsy week in hockey. Eric, did you ever have to run to a pay phone with breaking news and, like, phone a newsroom and say, like, oh, my gosh, Wayne Gretzky got traded or, like, did you ever have the run to a payphone moment for breaking news? I don't think so. No, I don't think so. I mean, there have been, there were times early, early on in my career when I would have to go to a pay phone and dictate a story. And a lot of times what you would do is you would have your, you would have your, you would have your, no way. from the game. I particularly remember doing this

on a tour with the Canadian Olympic team in 1979 where you'd be in a press box without an actual phone. And so, you know, you'd be on deadline and you would go to a pay phone in the lobby of the arena and you would have your notes and you would be making it up as you went along. So it was a version of what you're talking about, but it wasn't because it was breaking news

because you were doing your game story from the Canadian Olympic team versus the American Olympic team. And I remember particularly Kathy Motherwell, who I worked with a long time, you got the Globe and Mail. She was fantastic because she was a terrific typist. So if you got somebody that was a hunt and peck typist, and that sometimes happened too when you were calling in a story,

you would lose your train of thought because they were typing so slowly. So I remember Kathy, you know, whenever I called in, it was like, is Kathy there? And she was. And then you could make up your story as you go along. she typed the thing. I mean, the process of typesetting it and then putting it up on a stone and then printing the actual paper anyway.

Like I said, we could talk about that forever. But no, not for breaking news, but I have had to dictate stories. And you do have to kind of make them up that you go along, which is challenging. You feel it in your head. But if you lose your train of thought, you're in trouble. Well, I'll tell you, for the storytelling and journalism nerds, I think they love that type of thing. I think next off season, next summer, Haley, we should have Eric come back.

And all we do is, you know, in the off season, just tell some of these great stories. Because I think they're really fascinating. I think it's really cool to hear those types of stories. Yeah, I think so too. And I think Eric touched on it a little bit in his last mailbag, too. And we won't get into it now because then we'll just spend the whole podcast doing it. But I do think it is really interesting that, you know, Eric spoke about it in the mailbag. just, I don't know how beat writers are beat writers anymore with the way that the league and

teams and locker rooms have gone. You don't just get to go up and chat with, you know, Brady or Matthew could chuck at the, you know, while you're waiting for your luggage, you've got to go through all these different PR and everything. The access is different. The players might not yell at you as much, you know, as they probably would have back then if you wrote something crappy about them. But that relationship between reporter and players different. And I think that's all just so interesting to get into. But we do have lots of hockey things to talk about today. So, Ian, you can go ahead first because I know we have a ton of stuff that we want to pick your

brain about, Eric. Yeah. And you know what? The perfect segue right there, Haley, you mentioned Matthew, Brady Kachuk. Boy, full credit to our colleagues, Elliot Friedman and Jeff Merrick, who got this information on the weekend. And that was Matthew Kachuk speaking to them at Sportsnet all about Brady Kach's contract situation.

And basically Matthew says, look, they're not close. My brother's not close to signing a deal in Ottawa. And, you know, we're trying to teach Brady to be a little bit more like us, like me and my dad. We held out and we're trying to teach him to be a little bit more cutthroat. And, you know, he's learning how to be a kachuk. And that certainly added some kerosene to the fire in Ottawa. And let's talk about this here for a second, Eric and Haley. Like, first of all, on any level, should some people,

be thinking, this is tampering. That guy with the Calgary Flames shouldn't be giving information about the contractual status of a player for another team in Ottawa. Or do we just look past it because, hey, players should be allowed to talk about other players. Well, I mean, how, I guess it is different

because he's putting his face and his name behind it and he's saying something very specific like that. But I don't know how that's any different than, you know, where we can assume some of these leaks from the front office are getting out to media, right? I mean, all Matthew's doing compared to whatever source some Ottawa media members have is just giving a little bit more information versus, yeah, it's close. Or, you know, eight year deal. It's going to be, he was offered eight times eight. You know, somebody said that Matthew Kachuk is just putting his face behind it and

saying, no, it's not close at all. Everything that you're hearing right now is a lie. And I think he had a brash way of going about it. It was a very like, I don't care. I'm going to just like light a match and walk away kind of energy from Matthew, but which I think we've grown to either appreciate or despise depending on, you know, who you are and what hockey team you cheer for. But I don't have a problem with him saying that. I know Sends fans are probably kind of upset to hear like actually, no, it's not close at all. And we're going to make Brady be even harder about this and we're going to make Brady, you know, tackle this like a Kachuk. Keith and Matthew both held out in contract negotiations. Or if you don't want to call it a holdout, just say you're negotiating long, whatever.

Some people are particular about that definition. But I don't have a problem with it. I think it was probably if you talked to Elliott or Jeff, that was probably the best little piece of, you know, conversation they had at the entire media day. And that's what Matthew Kachuk does. You know, I thought it was interesting. I thought the fact that he was being honest. honest about it, you know, you don't want to just keep stringing these Sends fans along and saying, like, something's going to get done soon. It's probably going to be an eight-year contract extension. So, yeah, he was super brash about it, but I don't hate it. And I don't think it's tampering. It's his brother. It doesn't matter. It's family business for them, at least.

Yeah, well, you know, a few things to touch on there. First of all, I have no issue at all with an actual hockey player saying something that's actually interesting because, again, you know, that you get so much bland hockey talk, you know, boilerplate speak that it drives me absolutely crazy. And so, you know, like the hardest thing to do, I think in the modern era to sort of filter through all of the crap that you have to listen to and actually get to something tangible and meaningful. So when a player like Matthew Kachuk says something interesting, like, you know, even something like he said, you know, average isn't fun. I'm reading his interview from the player media tour. And that just left out at.

Those three words just say everything. Average isn't fun, right? So he's talking about the plane specifically. So there's that. I have no issue with that. Secondly, I think the hardest thing right now, and one of the reasons that it isn't just Brady could check the fun sign, but it's also freeze off and the two guys out in Vancouver.

It's very difficult for players that have that elite pedigree coming out of those entry-level contracts into a landscape where, you know, the cap continues to be flat, where revenue. have been, you know, so minimal for NHL teams for so long to find what the actual number is. So, you know, at least when Matthew Kuchuk was negotiating his contract with the Flames, it was like a normal world. You know, the Flames had a sold-out building. The expectation was the cap would continue to rise. And so you're negotiating in a known landscape.

And so now, you know, the players that find themselves unhappily in this situation right now are negotiating in an unknown landscape. And the teams are just digging in. You know, whereas in the past, you know, sometimes, you know, it would inevitably be the team that caves because it's like we just can't afford not to have Brady construct. We just can't afford not to have Capesop. We just can't afford not to have Quinn Hughes and Ilius Pedersen under contract.

Now they're saying, look, you know, the landscape, we don't know where it's going. And so, so, you know, how do we commit to, you know, to X number of dollars over X number of years without really anticipating what the future is going to be. I mean, to me, the solution is going to be, for the most part, if you're not sure, hedge and you hedge by signing bridge contract. So, and the other thing that I would say is based on watching these negotiations over the years, even in a known landscape, is that nothing creates a resolution better than the approach of the regular season. because eventually, you know, Brady Kachuk's DNA is going to surface and he's going to want to play it.

It would be very difficult. It's easy enough to miss the start of training camp. It's easy enough to miss parts of the exhibition season. But when the season is about to begin, the players that like Kachuk that have that sort of, I want to go, I want to go. It's going to get harder and harder and harder and harder. I just remember something that Johnny Goddrow said when he was unsigned in 2016. You know, even he basically after the fact said, you know, I, you know, I want to go. I told my agent, I don't want to miss any game.

So negotiate as hard as you want, you know, but at the end of the day, I want to be in the lineup when things get going. So, you know, I think that whilst things may seem insurmountable right now, I have a hard time believing that in what day is puck drop, October 12th, that by the time we get to that point that some accommodation hasn't happened. It may not be the kind of long-term extension that probably fans in Ottawa want to see. but I have a hard time believing that a month into the season that these players are still, you know, lingering on the outside looking at. I just, you know, that hasn't happened very often in the past. And I don't think it's going to happen this fall either. And I think we saw what happened with William Nylander when he held out the way that he did.

And I think it's kind of a cautionary tale for both sides because I think a lot of people saw that the Leafs waited, waited, waited, waited, waited, waited, just to, essentially give William Nealander what he always wanted, or at least in the ballpark of what William Nealander wanted. And then Nealander waited, waited, waited, and had a pretty tough season because he missed camp. He missed, you know, the amount of games. I think he didn't sign until the end of October. Is that right? I think he missed like, no, no, no, November 30th. November 30th. Yeah, right before December deadline. I don't even know what a regular season can. It was like December, November, like. It's right before December deadline. I don't even know what a regular season and calendar looks like anymore.

I'm all messed up. And he didn't have a great year and it took him a long time to really get back into it. So I think that situation is kind of a cautionary tale for both sides. You know, hold out. But if you're going to hold out and just give him essentially what he wanted and you're going to hold out and you're going to be, you know, pretty terrible for the first year, I don't know. Yeah.

But I think Eric was 100% bang on that the real pressure point, it's not the opening of training camp. It's the opening of the regular season. And I looked into this. I wrote a piece last week because, look, tensions run high in any hockey mad market when one of your favorite young stars is unsigned and training camp is on the horizon, people get nervous. And my point is, if you look at the last two years and you look at Braden Point and Matthew Kachuk and Kyle Connor and Patrick Line and Matthew Barzell and you look at some of these high-end RFAs, on average, folks, they have missed 11 days of training camp to get their deals done. So go into it with that mentality. Remember Johnny Gudra when he signed that,

if I'm not mistaken, it was like 48 hours before the season opener, right? They were playing the Oilers and it was like, hey, let's get this done. So the aberration is Willie Neelander. It's a cautionary tale, but it very, I think Jake Troop is the only other guy of consequence in the last six, seven years, who's actually missed regular season game. So I don't think that the opening of training camp should be the be-all and end-all of getting these guys signed.

But again, it's a fascinating situation. I want to flip the seat of it here and ask you a question, Ian, and forgive me, Eric, that we brought you into chat, but I'm going to grill Ian now. It's a softball. I don't know. Do you see the relationship with fans and Brady changing the longer this holds out? Because he is a fan favorite. We've seen him floss. We see the way he plays on the ice.

Everybody loves Brady Kachuk. Do you think that changes if he continues to wait? and if, you know, it's true that he turned down eight times eight and he doesn't want to lock in full time here and he wants to sign a bridge deal so he can, you know, have more control over his future and see what the senators actually do in terms of their commitment to winning.

I don't think, look, you're never going to get a unanimous opinion from a fan base, right? So you're always going to have the extreme. Some will love him, some will hate him. I still think that given the exodus of star players from Ottawa in the last five years, that most of the leverage will still be in the Kachuk camp. And I know that I think Matthew's comments probably made some Ottawa fans irate

because they feel like, oh, this guy's just in it for the money. I'm always a believer of, as an athlete, you have a finite window to cash in. You don't have 30 years. You don't have 40 years. You have seven or eight years sometimes. So I'm a believer. You go ahead.

You make your money while you can. And not all fans believe that. but I think that because Ottawa has lost Stone and Carlson and Alfredson and Spetsa and Heatley and however far back you want to draw the line, I think most fans will say, listen, I'm going to side with Brady Kachuk on this one. And so the longer it goes on, I still think the pressure will be on the team to get this done. But like Eric said, I think it's going to end up being a bridge deal. And I don't think you're going to see that kind of eight year deal.

But that's just me. And maybe I'm wrong. And hopefully I'm wrong for the sake of Ottawa fans. But I do want to ask Eric about what I think, listen, as much as the Kachuk situation is interesting, I think what's about to happen in Buffalo is super interesting because the Associated Press, I believe it was the first to report this on the weekend. Jack Eichl's headed to Buffalo. Eric, and he's going to take his physicals, and maybe this is just merely something that has to be done

just to cement his status. But this is going to be an interesting week, isn't it, with Jack Eichael going back to Buffalo? I agree. And what I would say is that, yeah, contractually is obliged to report and show up for his physical. And I think the expectation is that he is going to fail that physical because of this neck injury that's been lingering for a long period of time, although we don't know that. And so the whole Eichael thing to me is completely shrouded in mystery. And I think that it'll be like any great pot boiler, you know, you'll be getting like clues as you go along. But you have to wait till page 232 to, aha, that's how it returned it out.

And but, but, but I think a lot of teams right now, there's a lot of teams that are interested in Jack Eichel. But the uncertainty over his health, you know, I think, you know, there's, there's so much misinformation about Eichael. The managers I talk to have no issue at all with, with Jack Eichael and his commitment to play and who he is and what his skill set is. I mean, there isn't anybody that I've ever talked to about Jack Eichol. that doesn't love what he brings to the table. So the hockey side, they're fine with that. The contract, not great, you know, 10 million per year, but basically you're almost halfway through that deal.

And if numbers continue to escalate it, it might not seem like that bad a deal in the end. But if you are a team that has significant assets in order to surrender, you want more certainty. You just want more certainty. You don't know. like general managers get fired by trading for a player that has a medical issue and then it turns out he can't play or he can't play at the same level that he was that. So I just think that the reason GMs are being cautious, they're normally cautious and conservative anyway if you want to generalize. But in this particular case, there's just so much uncertainty about his health that having medical records is one thing, but actually, you know, waiting for this thing to play itself out.

is he going to have the surgery? Is he not going to have the surgery? Is he going to be playing in 10 games, 20 games, 40 games? They want to see him play. They want to see him play. So this is, to me, the first step, you know, find out where he's at medically. And then it could go, the path diverges, right? I mean, what if he passes this physical?

You know, now all of a sudden, you know, you're a member of the savers. And if you're not on the ice, you're in breach of your contract. And a whole bunch of, you know, bad things can happen. So you're right. I mean, you know, I wish I had an answer for you, but I think we're all sitting on the sidelines right now waiting to get answers. And I think the first answer comes, you know, a couple of days when he takes his medical. Can you imagine being a fly on the wall for the, you know, moment that Jack Eichel goes into the training room where the gym where he walks into that rink after everything that's happened over the last couple months after everything since, you know, those exit meetings and everything that's happened this summer? Ooh, might be a little awkward.

It's an uncomfortable situation, but the reality is, I mean, you're a professional, you have a contract, you're obliged to, you know, to meet the contract in a certain way. And so, you know, I just think, you know, like, you could almost tie everything we've talked about so far together in a bowl by saying that every athlete today understands that he's a little mini corporation. It's Jack Eichael, Inc. It's Brady Cachuk, Inc. It's Carol Capesoff, Inc. So they understand that, you know, that what they have is human capital and a talent that NHL teams are willing to pay for. And they have to look after the main asset in Jack Eichael, Inc., which is Jack Eichel,

the physical person. And so every decision that he's made or is in the process of making has to do with preserving that physical asset. I mean, you know, there was a time 30 years ago. you just don't see it as often anymore where, you know, where players would play, they always make the distinction between playing hurt and playing injured, you know, and people can play hurt because everybody's hurt a little bit, but you should never play injured.

That was always the rule of thumb, but players did play injured because they would just ignore what their body was telling them and they play and play and play and sometimes it would be to their long-term detriment. So I think that the prevailing attitude in professional sport right now is, you know, don't play injured and take care of their body. because, as you referenced earlier in the conversation, you have a finite number of years to do this, and you can only do it well when you're healthy.

And so that's really when you distill everything down to one thing, he needs to get healthy. And once he gets healthy, then lots of options occur, because if he's healthy and playing, the lineup outside the door of general manager Kevin Adams to bid for Jack Eichael will be very high. The teams want to, they want to know, and you want to know,

And probably, you know, Jack Eichol wants to know what, you know, what's next in terms of the physical state of his health. You know, and I thought you answered it really well in your mailbag when somebody asked you, like, do these players like Carilla Caprizov or maybe Kachuk or Eichel, do they risk alienating their teammates or their status in the locker room because of the contractual situation? I thought you put it well when you said, listen, they're all in, everyone knows the deal. deal. And they're professional athletes and everyone knows you have to take care of yourself first because you're treated like an asset and quite frankly, there's nobody in the, unless you hold out with a contract, I think that's the only time when players might take offense to that. But when you don't have a contract, you're holding out for something that you think is right or you're not 100% healthy and you're holding out, I think most, I think most athletes have each other's, have each other's

facts. I want to talk a little bit about Zadano Chara Incorporated because this is a, this is an entity that just keeps going here, gang. And here's what I want to know. Do you get the sense that remember Yarmir Yager at the end of his career, Yarmir became like this, almost this like this hockey mercenary. And he would just bounce around. He'd be like Dallas and Philly and Calgary and Florida. Like, you know, he just bounced around. And now you look at Zadena O'Hara. And when he left Boston, we were shocked and he went to Washington. Now he's going back to the island. Eric,

is Zedino-Chara like to do Yager? He's just going to bounce around a year-to-year deal, and we're all just going to enjoy the ride as long as we can be on it. Sure, yeah. And I think you're going to add Joe Thornton's name to that mix, too, because, you know, Joe went from San Jose where I didn't think he would ever go play to year in Toronto.

I had a lot of fun, and now it was in Florida, trying to win a championship. And so, no, I mean, I have a bias towards veteran players. And it's probably because I've been active as long time too. I've never been one of those writers that is telling a player, retire, because your current level doesn't reflect the greatness of where you were previously in your career and you're embarrassing yourself because that is a narrative that you hear out there sometimes. Actually, you hear it quite a bit.

And what I would say is that if you're Zedain O'Chara or if you're Joe Thorne or Yager at the end and still have this brain tired of play, you should be allowed to. If someone is prepared to pay you whatever, that's usually the NHL minimum, like these guys aren't playing from the money anymore. They've all made as much money as they'll ever need. So what's their motivation?

They either want to win a championship or they just still love the game so much that they want to continue. And so I think there's an awful lot of teams that understand the value of that. You know, when I look at the Islanders, I mean, you know, they're a team that just has a whole bunch of veteran guys that play and a coach that knows how to utilize them.

And I think he's going to be an effective player for them. I look at Florida, a team that's trying to build a culture there that did a fabulous job of turning it around in one season under the new general manager there, Bill Zito, and of course, Joel Quenvo's been there a couple of years right now. And I think that they just understand the bringing Bill Thornton with his personality and his use of this and his love of the game, that just, that rubs off on players. You know, when you look at Sam Bennett and you look at Sam Reinhart, you know, two young guys that, you know, both are looking for fresh starts in Florida, having someone like Joe Thornton there just to be around, just to be around an hour before before practice starts and in the way.

To see the example that he sets, there's value to that. And so I'm pleased that these guys are still in the league. I love watching them. And eventually you'll get to the point where Yager did, where you just couldn't do it anymore. And that was the end. But the end hasn't come for either of these guys yet. And I'll be very interested in seeing how much they have left

and what they contribute to their current team. Haley, I got to ask you, who do you think ends up playing longer? Zedano Chara or Tom Brady? Because, look, they were both fixed years on the Boston sports scene for so-so-long. they're the exact same age. Who plays longer in their respective sports?

Zadano Chara or Tom Brady? It's so funny. I was talking to my dad about this the other day because, you know, I think Tom Brady, like he's said or joked, maybe he's half serious. Like he wants to, this guy wants to play until he's 50. He's 44 right now and he still looks really good. And it's funny to see other quarterbacks who are like 39.

And you're like, oh, man, like he is done. he is old and then Tom Brady's like 44 years old and he looks, you know, very good. So I don't know. It's hard to, like Tom Brady just feels like this ageless wonder and he's still the starting quarterback and he's still the guy wherever he plays. So I don't know. I feel like it's hard to bet against Tom Brady, but I guess what Chara has in his favor is that he doesn't always have to be the guy to keep playing.

You know, he could just end up being like a third pair. penalty killing defensemen go in there. I don't know, he can minimize his role, whereas Tom Brady is probably always going to want to be the starting QB. So it's a good question. But I find it, you never bet against Tom Brady. I think a lot of people have lost a lot of money over the years doing that. So I'm going to say Tom Brady. Eric, who do you think plays longer? Big Z or Tom Brady? Yeah, Tom Brady. I mean, I'm a big NFL fan. It's the only sport that I ever watch is a fan. I've never had to cover it. And so I like to spend Sundays in front of the television set watching the NFL. And I look at the way he's played the first two weeks. What is it? Nine touchdown passes.

Yeah. Two games. I mean, fantastic. The level that he is at still is phenomenal. It reminds he reminds me a little bit of Chris Chelyos because Chelyos was another player that was freakishly talented on the physical side of things. He was just, he was an amazing physical specimen. And Chris Chelyos, you know, I mean, Joe Thornton isn't the player that he was, Charis isn't the player that he was, but Chris Chalios, it didn't fall off for him until well into his 40s. I mean, he was he was a dominant player, a really, like, top NHL defensement in his early 40s. In fact, you know, when, you know, when I hear Kenny Hall and talking in Edmonton about Mike Smith and his confidence and in having Mike Smith come in and play a major role at his age, she cites Chris Chelios as an. an example. If you are one of those freakishly athletic slash fit guys, you know, the age

doesn't matter. I mean, it catches up with everybody eventually, but Smith had an excellent year last year. I think they have a lot of confidence that he's going to be good again. And it's because, you know, once in a while these guys come along that are just specimens and they defy logic and age and everything else. And so it's just, it's just a pleasure watching them play. Eric DeHatchik is just like us. He sits on the couch all day on Sundays. Nine hours now with the Sunday night game. So I try to take a walk between the games just to get some exercise, but I have way too much time.

That is a good couch shift. That is I made the argument on Twitter yesterday that, and Ian and I talked about this last week, Mountain Time is the superior time zone for football watching. Absolutely. No, it's Pacific time. It's specific. No, because mountain time, you get a little bit more of the morning to act like a real human being before you imprint the shape of your body onto your couch for the rest of the day.

It's the best. I didn't move yesterday and it was glorious and that's my Sunday move every week. Back to hockey. Yeah, back to hockey. Okay. I think this is a really fascinating story because I think being a captain of an NHL team, is one of the highest honors you can get. And I think you could probably even make the argument

that being the captain of an original six team even carries an extra layer of uniqueness and whatnot. And so I want to talk a little bit about some comments Artemey Panarin made on the weekend to an outlet called Hockey in the Know. And he conducted this interview basically on social media with hockey in the know.

And he was asked, Artemi Panarin was asked, would you like to be captain of the New York Rangers? So I'm just going to read a couple of quotes here from Panarin. And then we're going to talk about the idea that somebody doesn't want to be the captain of an NHL team. Here's what Panarin was quoted as saying. Quote, I think we have more deserving candidates for that role right now. Would I want it? I'd rather say no, actually.

It's not just putting a letter on the sweater and walking around and taking pictures. It's a lot of rough work in the locker room. And it's not about just playing good hockey. You also have to give your energy between periods, motivate guys, give interviews, being the face of the franchise. Overall, it's a lot of work off the ice. And I think I'm afraid I would not be an effective captain. I don't even speak English. How can I motivate?

I can only influence with my own game and they will listen to me without any letters. So, Eric, I'll start with you on this because, again, it's rather jarring to hear a superstar player would like to defer on. the option of being the captain. What's your read into Artemey Panarin basically saying thanks, but no thanks to wearing the sea on Broadway. Well, I mean, I commend him for saying that because he's clearly

someone that knows himself and also understands that, and a lot of people maybe don't understand this, that the role of a captain is a lot more than just, you know, collecting, you know, $100 from every player to tip the trainers, you know, monthly or something along those lines. It is

a, an important important role on an NHL team. And I think you need a certain type of personality to do that role effectively. It becomes a distraction. And so if you're someone like Panera, where, you know, like what he does on the ice, I mean, if you look at his numbers over the last three years, I mean, there's, there's seven players that have averaged more than 1.25 points per game over the last three years. He is one of those seven. He's been phenomenal. So why tamper with something that is working Like he is so effective doing what he's doing in New York right now. And I think what he's saying is that, you know, if I were to change that and devote 20% of my energy being a captain and assuming a leadership role that, you know, that I don't feel that I need, you know, because of laundry on the sweater, it could unduly and negatively impact his performance.

So I think it's fantastic that he is willing to do that because you're a, It's easy to say, oh, you know, it's so great to be the captain of a team. And, you know, captains get a lot of plaudits and respect. And, you know, knowing that they, ultimately, what he's saying is this is the best solution for the New York range as the team I'm employed before. And he's right. You know, there are players on that team that have been around longer. Like, you know, Jacob Trubu would be a real good example of someone that has been in the game for a long period of time. you know, that can say the, you know, the hard things that need to be said in the dressing room when things go off, off the rail,

he's a, you know, a hard-nosed young man. And someone else should shoulder that burden that has the personality that can handle it. And in the end, that will make the range as a better team. Well, you know, we've really appreciated the insight and we've kept you for a while. So I just have one more question for you, Eric, and it's hard to narrow it down. You know, in your last two mailbags, you had a couple of little nuggets just about your thoughts on some of the Canadian teams. We do have a rivalry with Sean John Tilly and Craig Custin's on the American show. So we're going to talk about Canada here for a second. In one answer, you said that you believed that Edmonton was not a championship squad.

And another, you said that the Jets were the top team in Canada. So I'm just curious, you know, why is Edmonton not a Stanley Cup winning team yet? and what makes the Jets better than the Oilers and the Leafs specifically, since I'm sure that's what a lot of people want to know, why are the Leafs not the top team in Canada? Yeah, well, I think Winnipeg has the best one to 19 depth in the NHL because if there's a question mark for me in Winnipeg, it's how will Eric Comrie be as a backup goaltender to Connor Hellebeck?

And even assuming that Connor Hellebuck plays three quarters of the game, this year, you know, they, I think they do have a little bit of uncertainty at the backup bully position, but they have a former Vesendipofi as the winner as the starter. So I think that they feel fine there. No, I think that, you know, they understand in Winnipeg that it's one of the best-run franchise in the National Hockey League, and that you only get a finite number of years within that window to compete for a Stanley Cup. And so the moves that they made this year were specifically made to address personnel issues. And I think you're going to see a sort of a lot of a shift almost in the way they play because they brought in two extremely experienced,

quality, versatile, deep defenseman in Nate Schmidt and Brendan Dillon that will solidify the one part of the team that wasn't very good. I mean, they have their one to six forwards are fantastic. They can put two terrific scoring lines out there. I think Dubois is going to have an excellent bounce back year. He's just too good a player to play at the level that he played at last year. no one has a better third line in the game now that Tampas had to dismantle their third line than, you know, then, then cop, Bowery, and whoever ends up filling the Mason-Appleton role there.

So I don't see a lot of, I don't see a lot of weakness there or question marks, I guess, is a better way of putting it. So Edmonton, I mean, I'm bullish on Edmonton. I think also in my mailbag, I predicted that they would win the division ahead of Vegas. I think upset some people, but I think they're on their way. I just don't think they're there yet. I think they're a year away. And I think that some of the, I want to see Evan Bouchard in the lineup. I want to see him as a contributing member of that team.

I think that they need a little bit more of that, that those, that the young players that they have in the pipeline need to, but not just get to the NHL, but they're going to need sometime the contributors at the NHL level. So, so they're, they're closing in. I think they're going to have a better regular season. But, you know, to win a champion. you have to win four playoff rounds,

and I'm not sure that they necessarily are built to do that. And as much as I like Mike Smith as a goaltender, I think it's reasonable to ask, will their goaltending hold up for the full season? So, you know, in Toronto, I mean, they're a fun team to watch. I think that at one point, you know, they've, you know, I think they've had a lot of bad luck when it comes to playoffs. I think a lot of people are questioning the character of some of those players.

I disagree. I look at the way Martyr plays, the way Matthew plays, the way Tavares plays, the way New York. But these guys care. They care and they're fun to watch. But, you know, the model that Toronto is employing, and I'm not saying anything that you don't already know, is it's difficult to win when you've got so much high-end talent earning as much money as they are. If all those $11 million guys were making $9 million, it would just give so much more flexibility to Kyle Dubas to supplement. what they're doing with, you know, lesser players in the lineup. And having said that, you know, if Andre Kasha can stay healthy, he's a terrific talent.

And Nick Ritchie will give them a little bit of a physical presence lower down in the lineup. So I like their team, too. I actually, I'm quite bullish on the teams in Canada. I think that, you know, you can make a case for every single one of them to be a little bit better than, than they were a year ago. I like Vancouver. I like, you know, once they get everybody on the, on the ice, I think they're fine. Haley, you and I have talked about Calgary. I think that there's a certain islander dynamic going on there

in terms of what they are trying to do with Darrell Sutter as the coach, similar to what Barry Trots is doing there. And, you know, in Montreal, I mean, they have a lot to live up to. Obviously, by getting the Stanley Cup final last year, can't imagine they're going to get lightning in a bottle twice, but they have good pieces too. So I think, I don't think that this is one of those years where in eight months time,

we're going to be writing stories that all begin with the woes Canada headline. I think this is a year where the Canadian teams are going to show well and do well. Listen, Eric, this was a ton of fun having you dropped by the podcast. And I was serious. I think next season, we'll get to the off season and things are a little bit more quiet. We have more time for kind of just these sort of fun trips down memory lane and feature stuff. We would love to have you back for just some great storytelling. because I do think there's so much value in storytelling, journalism, and the way that it was,

and some of the lessons that I think we've forgotten because of technology, that I think sometimes we need a refresher on. And they're just great stories for people to, you know, open up a beer and listen to. So listen, thanks for doing this. We're looking forward to all your coverage around this hockey season, and we'll talk to you again real soon. All right. Thank you. All right.

That was a really fun conversation that we had with Eric DeHawchick. And I just want to point out one thing, Haley. as he says, as Eric says, you know, I'm bullish on all the teams in Canada and then he goes through them all. What's the one team he left out? Ottawa. Well, he said they're all going to be better. He's not bullish on the Sends. And he didn't mention Ottawa.

No. He thinks all the teams in Canada are going to be better than last year. But he's bullish on all of them except for the senators. Exactly. That should be the headline for this. We'll put that out. Eric DeHashik hates the Sends. Yeah.

Yeah. All right. Here we go. It is a little multiple choice madness to wrap up the Monday podcast because we like to do this. We got a couple of questions here. Hey, we're talking earlier with Eric about Zdeno Chara's going back to the islanders. Haley, I'm going to toss out some names here. Okay.

Which of these NHL veterans would you like to see return to their original team for one season before they call it quits? Is it A, maybe you'd like to see Joe Thornton go back to Boston? B, Jason Spetz are going back to Ottawa, C, Ryan Suter, back to the Music City, back to Nashville, or D, some people forget about this, but Brent Burns back to Minnesota, Haley, and you can also go off the board. Maybe you want to see Phil Kessel back in Boston.

I don't know. I don't know what you're thinking. Who would you like to see go back and kind of pull Zedano Chara where you surprise everybody and you land back with your original team? Yeah, this is a tough one for me because I feel like the best way answer this is to go with the player who would probably have like the best emotional attachment to a market or team or city, whatever that may be. And I don't know if it is the Canadian bias. Maybe it's because I've read your stories about it. And because I worked in Ottawa, but my

gut reaction is Jason Spetsa in Ottawa. I know for you, you got yourself into hot water last playoffs because you said, like, I would like to see Jason Spetsza win a Stanley Cup because I know that guy from Ottawa, he's a great dude, great player, et cetera, et cetera. People got very mad at you because you said that with the Leafs, but I don't know. I think that there is that feeling with fans about Jason Spetsa. I don't know if I'm way off here, but I think that could be something that would, you know, be potentially really special for the fan base and Spetsa himself. Yeah. You know what? And it would be, but I would love to see Joe Thornton back in Boston. I really would. And I think Like you go back and think about that trade and how unbelievable it was.

He goes to San Jose basically for nothing. And one of the, it's a Hall of Fame career, but most of it has spent in San Jose. I, like, I, there's a lot of people that don't even remember Joe Thornton's time in Boston because it was really free lockout of 0506 for the most part. So I'd like to see him go back. It would be really cool to see his, I love the Chara thing. I love Chara thing. I love Chara going back to Long Island.

because I think in the same way that once Zadano left, it's when he really kind of elevated into like a Hall of Fame defenseman. I think for Thornton, he was a really good player, but then he elevated into kind of a Hall of Fame player in San Jose. So I always think to myself that would be super fun. Okay, next question. Haley, multiple choice badness. If you opened up the print edition of the athletic today on your smartphone or your tablet,

computer, you would have seen our pal Scott Wheeler has put out his list for the top 20 candidates for the Calder Trophy as rookie of the year. So Haley, I'm going to ask you this. Based on Wheeler's column today, if you had to pick right now, who's going to win the Calder Trophy as the league's top rookie? Is it A, Cole Cawfield of the Montreal Canadiens, B, Trevor Zegris of the Anaheim D. Spencer Knight, the fantastic young goalie with Florida, D. Quentin Byfield with the L.A. Kings or E, you can go with somebody else that Wheeler mentioned.

Haley, who do you have your eye on for potentially for the Calder Trophy? I mean, I feel like it, for me right now, it's Cole Cawfield. And because, you know, we have this bigger sample size of what he looks like in the NHL. And it's a sample size that would typically preclude him from actually being able to be in the Calder race. Because he played 30 NHL games last year, but most of them were in the playoffs. So we only had like nine or 10 regular season games. So he's still technically eligible for the Calder. And we saw, like, when the game gets harder and faster, it's not easy to play in the

playoffs. And all the way to the Stanley Cup final, we saw this kid, you know, once he started shooting the puck and making plays. Like, he was among the Canadians top forwards. And, you know, he hasn't even had a full NHL season under his belt. He could be a candidate for somebody who disappoints next season to play devil's advocate here, for sure, especially what we saw in the playoffs. but from what we saw in that pretty big sample size from Cole Coughfield leads me to believe

that this guy will probably win the Calder next year if he can recreate some of the plays and the goal scoring that we saw in the playoffs from him with the Canadians. Haley, I'm going to have to ask you to return your Florida Panthers bandwagon fan card that you and I printed and I thought we had laminated because how are you not taking Spencer Knight here? It's our team, the Panthers. And they have, not only do they have playoff aspirations, I think they got Stanley Cup aspirations. And remember last year, when the Florida Panthers were in a kind of win or go home situation, who they turned to?

Wasn't Bobrovsky, wasn't Drieger. It was Spencer Knight. And I have a feeling if Sergey Bobrovsky gets off to a slow start or a flat start, this kid is going to be waiting in the wings. And I think, like, if that happens, he's got the potential to win 25 or 30 games. and playing behind, you know, one of the best, if Aaron Eckblatt comes back and he's healthy, like that's one of the best teams in the Eastern Conference

and maybe the NHL. And he's going to be in a great position to be a number one goalie. So I'm taking Spencer Knight, Haley. And I'm going to ask you to return your Florida Panthers bandwagon card, please. Well, that's not fair. I won't be doing that. I'm still on the bandwagon. Okay, but you're on thin ice.

All right. Last question in multiple choice madness here. Okay. who's going to be the most interesting or fascinating original six team to watch this season? And not surprisingly, there's six options for you. Is it A, Chicago, B, Boston, C, the New York Rangers, D, Toronto, E, Montreal, or F, the Detroit Red Wings, Haley. Which are these original six teams? And I think all of them have some really interesting storylines and where they could end up.

Who's the one team? You're like, wow, I can't wait to see what happens with them this year. Yeah, I think you could go down the list and I could probably convince myself of each one. Like, I'm personally really interested to see, you know, what Detroit does, especially if they can have some of their young up-and-coming players crack the lineup this year. I'm big into prospect. So I'm always interested in the Detroit Red Wings. I think Montreal has a good case, you know, Boston, et cetera. but I feel like I want to go with the Rangers.

You know, they have Panera and who we already discussed and, you know, the conversation around him turning down the sea. So there's that storyline of who's going to be the captain of the Rangers. But you've got Mika Zabana Jed. You've got Adam Fox. I just think you go down the list, Alexei Lafranier. Is he going to take a step? You know, I think there was a point in time where he was, you know, a little underwhelming for

fans. After all the fanfare around him, you've got Capo. Kako, Conjee Miller, Jacob Truba. Like, you go down the list and there's, there's good players, there's interesting players, there's storylines with the New York Rangers and obviously everything that happened with coach and ownership. And there was a lot that happened with the New York Rangers last season. So I think that's a team where I look at everything that happened last year and I look

at the players that they have in place, a new coach, et cetera. And I just think, you know, what is what is this? season going to look like for the Rangers? How do they respond to everything that happened? Do they take the next step? And what does this team actually look like? So I've got to go with the Rangers on this one. Yeah.

You know what's funny is I look at this list and I think the only team that I'm not interested in is Toronto because I feel like I can't learn anything about the Leafs until the Stanley Cup playoffs. Like they could no matter what they do, we can't really judge this team until April, May and June of next year, right? So I'm not, I don't find them interesting, but I do find Chicago interesting. And I think if you look at Chicago and think that they added the reigning Vezna trophy winner in Mark Andre Fleury.

And they're adding their captain back, Jonathan Taves, who, you know, has missed the last season. And I thought Mark Lazarus did a great job in kind of chronicling his, um, his kind of last eight to 10 months. And I think we're going to see a new Jonathan Taves, uh, coming back. Uh, they added a top six forward. Now, whether you think he's overpaid or not, but Tyler Johnson, I think he's overpaid or not, but Tyler Johnson, I think, could be pretty effective there.

Seth Jones comes into the mix. Like, if you're talking about teams that underwent the biggest sort of facelifts in the offseason, Chicago's near the top of list. And you have Patrick Kane, who's kind of always on the surface as an Art Ross slash Hart Trophy nominee, I think if they all stay healthy, Haley, I think not only could they be a playoff team, but if everything goes right for Chicago, you could talk me into them being back into the contender conversation. A bunch of things have to happen for that to occur,

but I think they're really interesting. Like I think that they could go one of two ways. They could be past their prime and Kane and Taves and some of those guys have, you know, hit the wrong side of 30 and maybe they start to regress. Or they've been surrounded with some good talent in Tyler Johnson and Seth Jones and Mark Andre Fleury and then you get the kids like Kirby Doc and DeBrin Cat coming in. Maybe it all lines up. I'm really fascinated with what happens with Chicago.

That is a spicy hot take for your Monday morning. Yeah. Monday afternoon once this comes out. But I'm awake now. There we go. It's a spicy take. All right. We're going to leave it there.

Listen, this is a lot of fun. Maybe at some point we need to collaborate on a Kachuk Brothers story, you know? Why haven't we done that yet? What are we doing? I don't know. Slacking. Dropping the ball. But listen, this was a lot of fun.

What does the week look like? for you. I know the teams are opening up training camps on Wednesday, at least with physical. So what does the week look like for you as NHL training camps kick off here again? Yeah, it's kind of crazy. Just, you know, I'm, this might surprise you, but I'm very type A person. So I have like a color coordinated calendar for myself. And I was looking at it for the week. And we've got, you know, the final rookie game, the final prospect game against Edmonton today. and then, you know, main camps on Wednesday. And then the first preseason game is on Saturday.

So this week we've kind of got like prospect stuff, development stuff. We've got the opening of main camp and we've got preseason hockey already here in Calgary. So this week I think is going to be, it's going to get pretty crazy and into it pretty quickly. So it's nice to like start my week with this. We talk about league-wide stuff before everything just kind of goes a little bit. nutty. So I'll just be at the rank and it's actually really, um, that's a fun thing to say to just go back to the rank and find a little bit of normalcy. I said to you, um, before we started, you know, this is my second season here in Calgary. But I haven't actually been here for like

nine months yet. I moved here last January and this is already my second hockey season with the flames and I haven't even been here a year. So it's, it's been a weird time. And I'm just looking forward to starting, you know, season two with, you know, a little bit of a return to normal time. It's not fully back yet, but it's nice to just say going back to the rank for a regular ish hockey season to cover the flames again. So it's going to, I'm going to get really tired really quickly soon, I think, though. Okay.

The color coordinated calendar will help. You need to tweet out your color coordinated calendar so we get an idea of what. I don't need people to judge me any more than they already do from the stupid stuff I post on my Twitter account. Haley, 430 Tuesday, cancel landline. That should be in there. All right. Hey, listen, we're going to have to leave it there. We had a lot of fun with Eric DeHachick as well. And thanks everybody for hanging out with us here for last hour or so for this latest edition of The Athletic Hockey Show.

Follow us on your favorite podcast platform. Leave us a rating. Leave us a review. You know, we appreciate that. You can also subscribe to the Athletic Audio Plus on Apple podcast. Get all the bonus content that we produce across our entire platform. Start with a 30-day free trial. That's just 99 cents a month after that. And Haley was talking about starting coverage of the Flames camp. I've got Ottawa stuff, and guess what?

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