The Athletic Hockey Show - Matthew Tkachuk's days numbered with Calgary Flames, 24 players file for arbitration and Nazem Kadri could return to Colorado Avalanche

Episode Date: July 20, 2022

This week on the roundtable, Rob Pizzo, Sara Civian and Jesse Granger discuss the fluid situation in Calgary involving Matthew Tkachuk who is rumoured to be on the trade block after news leaked that he is not willing to sign a long term deal with the Flames.The crew tackles NHL arbitration and the sometimes awkward negotiation that comes from it, with Andrew Mangiapane, Jesper Bratt and Kasperi Kapenen leading the way with 24 players filing. we dissect Sara's final style's rankings with Boston's 'Pasta', David Pasternak taking the title and Jesse's ranking the goalie carousel with Washington winning the Darcy Kuemper sweepstakes. Plus, with free agents like John Klingberg, Phil Kessel, Nino Niederreiter and Paul Stastny still out there, we wonder where they might end up.Peter Baugh checks in from Denver to provide an update on the Stanley Cup tour this summer, the front office changes with the Avalanche, Erik Johnson's future with the Avs and the possibility of Nazem Kadri returning to Colorado, not dead yet. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

What's going on, everybody? Welcome to another fine edition of the Athletic Hockey Show, the Wednesday Roundtable Edition. I am Rob Pizzo from CBCSports, and the crew, the band, is back together. Jesse Granger is in Vegas. How are you, Jesse? Doing excellent.

How are you, Rob? I'm doing good, and Sarah Sivian's back. Where the hell are you? I'm in Boston right now. Is the accent coming back? Vaguely, yes. I've been talking to my brother who has a thick accent, and now I'm... Really?

Yeah. My whole family sounds like Goodwill Hunting except me. Does you not sound like Goodwell Hunting because you left and you did before? No, I never did. I think it was like, I don't even know. Who knows? I was destined for working in the NHL. I don't know.

I've got friends who are from out east in Canada and they've lost their accent, but two, three beers in, and it slowly starts coming back. And you're like, oh, I wish you talked like that all the time. But yeah, no, Sarah, I know you were busy last week. It was a free agent, you know, frenzy, whatever you want to call it, was a lot of fun. And it's so funny, we were trying to figure out when we were going to record the show because we wanted everything done. And I remember our text message talking about like, well, you know, we want to know where Gudro is going and we want to know where Cadre is going. That should happen soon.

Well, it didn't happen for showtime with Gudro. It didn't happen with Audrey still. We're going to talk all about that. later on the show with Peter Bah who of course covers the Colorado Avalanche for the athletic. But let's get into it, guys, because I feel like this show should be the athletic Calgary Flames show, because I feel like that's all we've been talking about is the Calgary Flames over the last couple of shows, especially with Goodrow or somebody referred to him to me as Johnny Shockey, shocks the world by going to Columbus.

Yeah, I thought it was pretty funny too. But now we're shifting gears to Matthew Kachuk, the Flames, filed for club elected salary arbitration, which does a couple of things. Of course, he's an RFA. So it removes the possibility of him getting an offer sheet from another team. And he can't sign that $9 million qualifying offer. What it does is it buys a little bit of time. If you ask the Calgary Flames in their Twitter account, they say it's for them to come up with, you know, a contract extension, a long-term contract extension. You pretty much ask anybody else. They say it's probably because they're trying to work on a deal and Matthew Kachuk is done as a Calgary claim.

Would you guys think when you saw this news, it's got to be a pretty shitty time to be a Calgary Flames fan right now. Your 200 points scores are on their way out. Jesse, what do you think? Yeah, I mean, it feels like I can't remember a team changing this drastically, if they do end up trading Kachuk. I can't remember a team that was, I mean, they were a really, really good team. They were, I would say aside from Colorado, the best team in the West last year, and they

did what they've done consistently since I've been old enough to watch hockey, which is losing the playoffs. But they were still a very talented team that looked like, I mean, they finally got a goalie. Jacob Markstrom is spectacular back there. They have basically everything. I mean, they had good players at every level. And to go from that to you lose these two guys. And it, to me, at least, feels like there's absolutely no hope to contend at least immediately. Maybe they'll get some draft picks for this for for for Kachuk if that ends up happening. But yeah, I mean, that was my thought is I can't remember an NHL team going from being a what looks like a contender to losing its two best players in one off season. And throw Jordano in there too. Don't forget that with

the extension, you know, a Norris trophy defenseman. Like, it's just got to suck right now. Sarah, what you think? Yeah, I think absolutely no hope but me a little too much. But I do think that like it stinks so bad because they were good and they had potential and these are young stars that are getting better. And now just like that, they might be gone. I don't know if it was the writing on the wall with Goudreau and Cichuk, though. Like, I don't know. Maybe they are working on an extension, but I mean, it doesn't look great. It doesn't look great no matter what. You're losing, I don't know. I just feel like Goudreau's about to explode now that like he is doing things on his own terms. And that's the beauty of free agency too. Nobody has to explain anything to you. And I read

who drove player Tribune this morning. I don't know if anybody saw that. And he was just talking about how when his dad had a heart attack that was really hard for him being away. And you got to do what you got to do, right? Like it doesn't have to make sense to anybody else.

Yeah. And we talked about it on last week's show that, you know, up until your free agent year, the NHL is so geared towards being anti-player as far as, you know, your contracts and where you play. You're drafted here, you play here.

This is where you're going to sign your first two contracts. This is where you go. So, yeah, I don't think anybody is going to shit on anybody for choosing where they want to play. So the Goodro thing really was shocking, but again, he doesn't need to explain it. This Kachuk thing, to me, feels a little bit like a power struggle

because he doesn't have that qualifying offer. But if he signs that qualifying offer, he can be a UFA next summit, which you can see the flames not wanting that because it's just the exact same thing they went through with Johnny Gutrow. You know, are we going to sign them to an extension and you lose him for nothing? and they want to block that offer sheet because if they, out of the blue, somebody does give him an offer sheet and they match it, they can't trade him for one year.

So it's the exact same situation. So are you guys of the opinion? Because I'm starting to feel this, that if an extension was going to happen with Kachuk, it would have happened by them. Like, this to me seems like a turn that could get him out of calendar. I don't know. I don't know if I agree with that. Like, I'm sure you're probably right. but I am not that sure.

I'm usually not, Sarah, so you're probably right. I just think about the nature situation with the canes. I feel like they're probably going to sign him. But with the RFAs, it takes a while, especially with the salary cap, like, in a few years, slated to go up by a lot. It's like, are you going to sign someone to a long-term extension or a bridge deal? I think a lot of agents and teams are working that out internally right now. So that's why you might not be seeing a lot of RFAs signs right away.

But the situation is obviously different. So who knows? Yeah, I mean, I kind of, I guess I agree with Rob, but I'm sort of in the middle. I think it's pretty obvious that the reasons for getting team, the team asking for arbitration, it's pretty clear that they believe Kachuk wants out as soon as possible. Like that, the only reason to do this is, well, we don't want him to be a UFA next year, which means you think he's going to leave. We don't want him to sign an offer sheet, which again would be him.

Like, to me, they're protecting themselves against all these things. It's the smart thing to do if you're the flames. But the reason they're having to do this is because they're afraid Kachuk wants out. So to me, it just looks like he's heading out because it appears that's what he wants. The interesting thing, though, is I know you want to protect against an offer sheet, but a guy with his caliber of play on what he will get paid, you would get an absolute boatload of picks coming back, right? Maybe that's not something that interests them. Maybe it's, and that goes back to what we were just talking about, what this team is going to do if you lose your two best players.

Are they going to, in some way, shape, or form rebuild? Or are they going to tinker? And maybe we see Nazim Qadry, he's a Goddry claim. Who knows? But, yeah, this is an interesting situation. And with arbitration going July 27th, it does kind of put a deadline on this. It's not going to drag on. I will say to any flames fans watching this, hopeless, listening to this, rather,

I saw my hometown friend, Kevin Rooney, who just signed a two-year deal with the flames at the grocery store yesterday. And he's very excited to go to Calgary. running into NHL players at the grocery store. In Massachusetts, baby. Stinking with arbitration, 24 players filed for it leading the way. Andrew Munjupani, who had 35 goals this year. But you got Jesper Brown from New Jersey, Yamamoto in Edmonton, Caspari Capitan with Pittsburgh.

Like I said, July 27th to August 11th is when the arbitration hearings are. Any names out there that really kind of jumped out to you guys? or, I mean, last year there were only a couple that actually went to the arbitration hearing. I'm wondering if this is, again, now we're just going to see extensions being signed. Ethan Bear with the Cains, obviously, because I cover the Cains. I just feel like that's been weird because he dropped off in the second half of the season because he might have had long COVID. It just he wasn't himself and couldn't get up to speed after having COVID.

So I wonder what that's going to be like, right? Like, do they run tests on his health and figure out, like, for arbitration, like, that's an extra twist. That'll be, I'm looking out for that. And then the cane's sign in the trade with Apache Ready, they had depth from Dylan Coughlin. Coglin? Coglin.

And that kind of takes care of that. And you got Jake Gardner. So I don't know. I think he wants to like see what else is out there. But at the same time, if the Cain sign him, they sign him. Yeah, I guess Monjiupani kind of sticks out to me. Like Sarah, I'll draw it back to a personal experience here in Vegas. it kind of reminds me of William Carlson that first year when he scored 43 goals and then he was going to arbitration.

Now, the difference is with Carlson, it was like, oh my gosh, is this guy going to get paid? Like, is arbitration going to award him a contract like a 43 goal score when he literally had scored like eight was his career high prior to that? The Golden Knights actually ended up signing a deal with him outside the doors of the arbitration room. Like we're talking in the hallway before they went in. Mangi Apani situation is a little different because it wasn't like a fourth line guy who just suddenly scored four. 40 goals. He scored 35 goals last year, but it was kind of building. He was like when he was 23, he scored 17, then he scored like 19. So to me, I'm curious, he scored 35 goals last year. What kind of number is that going to come into? If I'm a team, I'm always worried about a guy who doubles his career

high and then suddenly we have arbitration and you have some person who, they're usually not even a hockey person. They're like a lawyer that just looks at the numbers. I would be concerned going to arbitration with a guy who just had double his career high in goals. So if I was Calgary, again, I'm so sorry for all the flames fans listening to this. I would want to work out a deal with him that we think is reasonable before going to arbitration, just because of that specific situation. I should have started the show with, welcome to the athletic hockey show, and if you're a flames fan, this is going to suck for you.

No, you guys got Kevin Rudy. You've been the best fourth line center you've ever seen. Listen to Sarah trying to sell it. The best fourth line center who shops where I do, he gets his apples where I get my. I can't mask Wegman. Real quick on what you said there, Jesse, about the arbitration. I think arbitration is hilarious because you basically have to go in there. The players people are like, this is why he's awesome.

Then the team has to be like, no, this is why he doesn't deserve this much money. And at the end of the day, they're supposed to just walk out and go, all right, I'll see a practice. You know what I'm like? Tell me that's got to be such an awkward situation. It's something I've always wondered is, are there lasting effects of arbitration where a general manager literally goes into a room and argues you're terrible. And like most of the time, they don't even believe you're terrible. They think you're great. They want to keep you.

But in this room, we have to argue that you are terrible so that we can pay you as little as possible. It's a very, very odd situation. As they say in the business, it's business. I feel like everybody, if you're a good GM, you have to. have a conversation after maybe that's like, hey, buddy, obviously trying to make the team better as a whole. Yeah, but man, like, I mean, this is of the most basic. We imagine just going in there and hearing this guy doesn't back check. He's terrible in his own end. He's this. He's that. And I thought I really improved my defensive. And it's, it's got to be weird. But I think there's

got to be some lasting. They show video. They show video of certain things that the player's done good and bad. Imagine like you completely whiff on a... Well, look what Rob did here. I mean, and you want $9 million? You want $9 million? That's just... I think it'd be hilarious.

Real quick, UFAs that still haven't signed. Let's save Nazim Koggi for segment two because we're going to speak in a Peter, but John Klingbird still hasn't signed, P.K. Suban, Patrice Bergeron, if he signs, we know where he's, you know, signing with Paul Stastney, Phil Kessel. What name jumps out to you on that list of

I can't believe a week after Free Agency. kicked off, we're still seeing this guy without a team to play hockey. Sarah? It's interesting you say that because I don't think there's a name that sticks out to me. I feel like people are really negotiating differently with the cap situation looming in a few years. I think this is taking more of a toll than people, but like we need to take that more into consideration than people have. I will say, you know, needer-rider with the cane, says everything has been totally silent on

that front. And now the canes are trying to circle back and get a deal done with him. So it's kind of like, did he not get what he was seeking? I think the term is what we need to watch out for, because I think players are trying to get like really long-term contract. You saw that with Vincent Trocheck, too. He signed a seven-year contract. It's like that's kind of extreme. I think everybody's trying to get long-term. Yeah, I agree with Sarah, that none of them, I mean, Cadry to me was, and we're going to talk about that later. Cadry to me is, one that's like, I cannot believe. I thought he'd be a first hour signing, first day signing for sure. Aside from that, I kind of, like, I see these veteran guys that have been paid quite a bit,

like P.K. Suban, Paul Stasney, they've made their money, and I think they're trying to find the right situation. Yeah, Phil Castle. I think they're trying to find the right situation. And I think sometimes you can wait to get a little closer to camp and see if you're Paul Stazney, like the guy scored 21 goals in Winnipeg last year. He was on their top line for a big part of the year. I think Paul Stasney still has a lot to give. I think he's looking for the right situation. I wouldn't be surprised if he somehow ends up here in Vegas. I've written about this a couple times.

I mean, he, I don't know if he lives here, but he's here all the time. Every time I'm at the rink, I see Paul Stasney with his kids out on the ice here in Vegas. The Golden Knights, the Golden Knights just traded Max Patch Ready. They could use a top nine forward. I think he fits what Bruce Cassidy likes in defensive-minded, responsible, high- IQ forwards. I think he's a guy. Stasney, to me, is a guy that is going to go under the radar. He's going to sign for like $2 million or maybe even less.

And whoever gets him, whether it's Vegas or some other team hoping to contend, I think Paul Stasney can make a real impact, especially for what his cap hits going to be. For me, it's a bit of John Klingberg because he's been on the verge of either being traded or signing somewhere for like a full year now. Like I feel like I'm the same way. I'm like, how is this guy still a member of this technically? I guess a UFO, you're not a member of the team anymore. Still, a couple more things before we go to break.

I'm going to ask Jesse about goaltending in a shocking tournament events. It really enjoyed your piece where you ranked the goalie carousel. We kind of touched on this last week, but now that the dust has settled, nine teams that made changes between the pipes. You've got Washington at number one. Darcy Kemper's in, Samsonoff, and Vanichek out, and you've got the Blackhawks at number nine, Peter Marazit, going in. How'd you break this thing down?

There's a little synopsis of this because I can't believe how different the blue paint's going to look come up. Yeah, it was fun watching all these goalies. It's going to be fun to watch, I think, the first couple months of the season just to see how these pan out. The Blackhawks got nine because they intentionally got worse. I'm convinced the Blackhawks went out of their way to get worse this off season. So, of course, they were going to be last. So the ranking that really stirred the pot, if you read the comments of that section that are not, the people are not happy about, is I put, Washington number one for getting Darcy Kemper. Darcy Kemper has the best save percentage of any

goal in the league over the last four years with at least 100 starts. One percentage point higher than Andre Vasilevsky. Kemper's been spectacular. He's the number one signing. Where people got upset with me is, how can you give Washington the number one ranking for getting Kemper? And then you give Colorado the number two ranking, and they lost Kemper and brought in a backup in Giorgett. Hear me out. This is my argument for why Colorado's number two. I love this move by the abs because I think it's low risk, high reward. I think they didn't give up a lot to bring Giorgiv in. I think two years ago, he was, Yorgiv was 1A, 1B with Shisterkin. And we weren't positive which one was going to be the goal of the future. I think most people lean Shisterkin, but there was some real belief in

Giorgian. I think he lost his confidence and he needs, he's, he's an athletic goalie who needs more confidence. I can't think of something giving you more confidence than the defending cup champ trading for you and then naming you their number one goalie right away. To me, if this works out for the aves, they've got great goaltending for basically nothing. Like, they're not paying their goalies any money between Franus and Giorgiv. If it doesn't work, they haven't invested much in Giorgiv. They're not paying them a lot. They didn't give up picks for him. Trade for a goalie at the deadline. So to me, the abs have a chance to get really cheap good goaltending. And if they don't, they still have plenty of time to add another goalie at the end. So even though they lost Kemper,

and to me, he's the best goalie. That was kind of how I reasoned. I thought the abs made a really low risk move that could end up working. And if it does, they're not in a terrible spot. Just when you thought the athletic writers didn't read the comments, Jesse, just comment out blazing. And speaking of comments, Sarah, drum roll please, your style of power rankings. I remember the show where we started talking about this. We were laughing our ass off because we liked seeing personality.

And you came out finally with your fashion king. And you guys put more analytics into this than Dom does on his. But who is, again, drum roll, the fashion king for the 2021-22 season? Give it up for David Posternot. Everybody, boo, in the comment. It combined everybody's in the comments favorite thing, analytics and fashion and taking things not seriously at all. Everybody was commenting, who cares?

And this is the worst. I'm unsubscribing. I'm like, I didn't put you at gunpoint and said, read my fashion rankings about Toss's flower suit. Like, that there was some, like, we get caught up in the bad comments that we forget. 95% of those comments where like, this is really cool and fun. Thanks for, not that I'm like living and dying by the comment. It's just like, why would you wake up at 7 in the morning and post a comment so upset about

somebody's flower suit or the article existing? You know what the article is going to be by the headline. Don't read it if you're going to get that upset. Or do you just want to be mad? You're welcome. helping you be mad. I'm shocked at how big the blowout was, though. Like, it was, no one was even remotely close to Poster Night. Well, we did it based on, and thank you, Shana Goldman, for helping us with the data here, but we did it based on, like, 10 points for a number one ranking, and then

nine points for number two and so on, so you get to the top 10. And Pasta had like three or four number one. He was always in the top five. So that really set him apart. It was very consistent and had a lot number one, whereas somebody like Linae had a few hits and several misses. So he was like number four or five. Line A, streaky scorer, streaky dresser. And we need teams to get on board because as you mentioned, the one downfall is we don't see everybody. Yeah, Austin Matthews.

Yeah, Austin Matthews is known for his style and we don't see him. So we got to get teams on board with this. And even if they're sending them directly to you, Sarah, next season, that's our goal. is to get teams on board. Our goal for the next segment to get Peter Bad to tell us where the hell Nazan Khadry is going. I don't know if you'll have an answer or not,

but we'll ask them. Don't go anywhere. So during the weekend of the NHL draft, I was not sent to Montreal. I had to sit and watch the three people I'm about to talk to have an absolute blast. Sarah was there, Jesse was there,

Peter Ball was there, and he's now joining us on the show. you guys looked like you had so much fun and it just made me so angry welcome to welcome to the show peter and how much fun did you have with these two oh i had a i had a lovely time um sarah got to see me do karaoke i don't jesse i don't think was was there that night sadly yes i was there i did not sing though i was not on the stage did you see me sing or were you there for me singing or did you come later yes yeah i was i was expecting german and then it ended yeah well i got i got i got completely screwed over by that place because the English lyrics are much worse to 99 loose balloons than the German ones.

Jesse, I'm sorry I did not recall you being there. I was having a good night. Yes. You either don't remember someone's there or you remember the three of them were there when you're having that kind of good night. Yeah. 99 red balloons. It's so much. You have to listen to it in German. so much better, infinitely better. 99 Luft balloons, right? Luffed balloons, yes. I had the German lyrics up and was practicing,

and then I get up there, and it's all an American. I'm like, what is this? You did rehearsal and everything with Mark Lazarus. Yes, yes, I was getting hyped up. After my dirty, my double dirty Shirley. Oh, my God, the drink of the summer. Yes. I don't know, how the hell I was supposed to transition

from 909 left balloons to some hockey talk, but I'm going to get a try. Peter, this is some hard-hitting reporting we need you to do for us. Is that big silver trophy that the Colorado Avalanche got? Is it in one piece? Because it didn't get off to a good start, thanks to Obico Bell. Yeah, it is still good. To my knowledge, it was in South Carolina yesterday with Jared Bednar.

And it looked in the pictures. It looked just fine. unless something happened last night, to my knowledge, it is all good. It made it through Nicholas Obay Cabell's Cup Day. So it's off to a good start. It got fixed at the NFL or at the NHL draft in Montreal, the keeper of the cup. They took it to the wherever they fixed dense in the Stanley Cup. So it's thriving.

It's doing okay. I've done a little digging on that. And it's so funny how many different teams claim they are the reason that the keepers of the cup have a job. I mean, Wayne Gretzky and the Oilers say, It was them. In 88, because they destroyed, there's a picture of the cup that's in like five different pieces. Oh, no.

And they had to take it to a metal shop to get put back together. Glenn Healy told me that, no, they snapped the top of it and tried soldering it back together. So they're the reason there's a keeper of a cup. But either way, that had to be the fastest I've ever seen the cup get damaged in Stanley Cup history. It is. I think the keeper of the cups said it was,

which is funny because it wasn't like it was while they were out partying. It was just that, like, Nicholas Obay Cabell's skate hit, like, a weird part of the ice. There was, like, a, I mean, that's what he said. He might have just tripped. Right. But, and then it dented. Well, they sent them to a place. They sent them to a place.

They don't need to worry too much. But he doesn't want to get Stanley Cup for he signed somewhere. Peter, what's going on with Godry? Why are we a week after free agency and he's still unsigned? So I think you're looking at a situation where there are a lot of, teams that are trying to move cap space to make room to give a good offer to Nalcadro. And I think what we're learning and what we're seeing this deadline or this this free agency period is that it's it's not easy to move contracts right now. I mean, you saw in Vegas,

Vegas pretty much had to give away a good defenseman to get Max Patruetti off the books. And he's like a really good player. So teams I think are trying to figure out how to how to clear room so they make a good offer, which is not always easy at this point. So I think that's why you're seeing this drag out a little bit is because there are a lot of teams that are interested. There are a lot of teams who are prepared to give them a good offer. But there's a lot of moving parts that have caused this to slow down a little bit. Do you think the avalanche are one of those teams that are maybe looking to move apart

to clear space for Nazim Kadri? Yeah. I mean, I think the abs are looking at different options. but it's it's kind of one of those tricky things too of like when you move one contract that like opens up another hole and it's it's tough so i think the abs have some some contracts that are movable um but some of those lead to more questions than they answer especially because nathan mckinin um assuming at some point they get an extension worked out that'll kick in next summer um and that'll that definitely will have huge ramifications on the salary cap. So you've got guys like Samuel Gerard who you could move to maybe make some room, but he's also a really good defenseman on a team-friendly deal. And that's kind of hard to move.

Or hard for the avalanche to, I don't know if they don't want to move that. And then you have Eric Johnson, but that comes with like he obviously has given so much to the organization. that would be a very tough decision to make. And he also has a no-mootment or a no-trade clause. I believe that he waived his no-movement clause in the expansion draft. So now it is a modified no-trade clause. But I need to get a little bit more clarity on that.

But that's kind of what I'm under the impression of at this point. And then you have like JT. Comfer, who you could maybe move to create some space. But it's all those guys create more questions. So are the Aves trying? I believe that they are open to the possibility of working to keep Nazan Khadri. I don't know if they want to pay him necessarily what he was hoping going into free agency, just looking at their past history of the fact that it took until the 11th hour to get a deal done with Gabriel Landiskeh because they were worried about paying a forward who is going to be over 30 for most of the contract.

So I'm curious about what the number, if they're able to reach one gets to, and then obviously they'll have to clear space. So there's, to answer your question, yes, I think that's, are interested in bringing back some cadre, but it's just, it's difficult with the cap situation. That was, you kind of alluded to my next question. Like, just how high on the priority list is it? Because this isn't a matter of, okay, we've got the space. Let's come up with a number. Like you said, there's just so many moving parts to make it happen. So either, I kind of feel like it would be a situation where either we're in or we're out, you can't kind of be on the fence with this, right? Yes and no. I mean, I think the avalanche front office has shown.

they're very willing to be patient, even when people sometimes want things to move quickly. I think the main example of that is the Matt Duchesne trade, where they, it dragged out, and the abs were perfectly content sitting back and waiting until they got an offer that they felt was good enough. So I think that the avalanche are comfortable, from what the GM, Chris McFarlane has said, they're comfortable with this roster or this roster with a little more filling out. they're comfortable with that going into training camp. And I think that if that's like, if they need to wait to see like where Caddry's at money-wise, like they, they're not in a place where they have to make a move right now.

I think that they, obviously, if they get to a point where Cadry and then kind of like figure out a money term that would make sense and then they have to move a contract or two, then you've got to get things going. but I don't, to my knowledge, that's not the point that they're at. We talked goaltending in the previous segment. Jesse was big on what Colorado did. Kemper out, Guillaume, Gioz, kind of seems like he's just where he was last year. Your thoughts on what's going on in the blue ice? Yeah, I think it's an interesting kind of approach from Colorado, where it's, I mean, you kind of hear about how you need to have elite goaltending to win the Stanley Cup.

in Colorado is, it seems like the path they're taking is like, we're going to have as good of a team in front of the goal tenders as possible and kind of figure that out later. Like they have, I think, $5.5 million committed to goaltending next season on the salary cap, which is not all that much. And that's allowed them to keep guys like Falunichita and extend our Trey Lacken to make those moots that they wanted to make to have the team in front of them. I think there is some inherent risk. You have Georgiev, who was pretty subpar last year. But I think the avalanche really believe he can, when he's starting, he's going to be able to get into more of a groove. He's going to be playing in front of a much, much better defense.

I think his confidence will probably be higher. I mean, who wouldn't gain some confidence by getting, but if you found out that like the Stanley Cup champions wanted to trade for you. So I think that they think that there's upside there and that it maybe he, perhaps isn't as good as Kemper, but the, however, two plus million dollars that they saved in cap space, I think they deemed that more valuable. I was reading your ranking the top 15 playoff goals piece. And I love stuff like that and stuff like that's obviously a lot easier when the team ends up

winning the Stanley Cup right afterwards. But how fun was something like that, you know, ranking the, you know, the path all the way there. And obviously, I think a lot of people were kind of with the cadre goal not being number one. We were talking about comments earlier. I'm sure you got a few people saying Codry should have won, right? Yeah, I got some, but I think the Darren Helm goal in the second round against St. Louis was such a big goal for that team. And I think that just talking to even players, like the way they talk about that game and getting through that series, that St. Louis series was not an easy series. Like St. Louis gave them everything they had. And that was a good

blues team. And that Darren Helmgoal kind of, in one, like, instant, it eliminated the whole like second round question. It eliminated the blues essentially. And it kind of got the avalanche over that. They have this really, this game five where you have Nathan McKinnon make like maybe the most, the one of the most incredible goals in franchise history. And it gets kind of ruined because they can't hold on in the last two minutes. And that school kind of took that away.

Like it made it made everything okay and sent them, sent them on to a round they hadn't been to since 2002. So that was kind of the thinking that I had there and the adist radio guy, Connor McGahey, who did the, he kind of, I had him, I called him and he waited on some of this. He was on the same page with that. So I think that was the rationale behind that. And you asked about how much fun like doing a story like that is. My mind, like I love making lists. Like one of my friends and I, his girlfriend told him, I think she had a quote the other day that was like, she's like, you guys, if someone

asked you your favorite hobbies, you should say making lists because we'll just like go on the phone and we'll be like, who are the like 20 best NBA players since 2003 or something random like that? That reminds me of that tweet that like dudes will literally sit there and just name random athletes all day. It is,

I kid you not, one of my favorite things to do. And maybe that is sad, but it's kind of great. Who doesn't want to talk about Aaron Rowan from the 2005 White Sox? Peter, speaking of other sports, you're fairly new to the NHL beat, right? So what was that like covering a full cup run? Like, what did you learn? What did you love? Yeah, I think it's funny because I grew up in St. Louis.

and it's such a huge baseball town, and that's where, like, I was definitely a big baseball person growing up. I came in the athletic. I was covering University of Missouri football before coming here, and maybe I was doing a little bit of blues stuff to help Jeremy out here there when he was, like, out of town. But it not much at all. So it was definitely a, it was definitely like a transition. I think it was nice having the 20, 21 season under my belt, the, like, 56 game season to kind of get my feet wet and figure things. out. But the cup run was, I mean, it was a lot of fun. It was really tiring. That's a lot of hockey. Like, you kind of don't realize until you're in it just how long the playoffs are. Like,

those, they go on for, it's two full months. And so I think that maybe was a little eye-opening, living that rather than just like watching at home. And like, maybe you, you don't watch every game at home. You're, you know, like if you're a fan of a team or whatever, maybe you miss game three, because you're out with friends or something like that. So, like, going through that, I think I definitely learned a lot. And it was really cool. It was fun to experience. And I'm grateful for that.

To kind of bring it, I guess, back to on the ice. I'm curious, like, you mentioned the second round thing. And that that help goal kind of ended that. And I felt like that was such a cloud hanging over this team. And I'm wondering, like, do you think, like, how much better, like, do you think this team can be better? They're obviously losing. They lost their goalie, who is a clear, it's clearly a downgrade to Giorgi. I mean, we think, and I think he can play really well in there, but it's clearly a downgrade. They might lose Cadre. This is what happens when you win Stanley Cups. I'm curious, do you think this team can be just as good or better? And how much of that is because they've done it now. They have that belief. To me, this feels like a different team than it did at the beginning of last season. yeah i mean i think that now it's like the avalanche this whole last season had the question or had they were when people talked about it was like this is a really good hockey team

but and there was the big but of like are are they going to be able to get through the second round like can they have playoff success like this was a core that had had a good team for a little while but just hadn't gotten to the the heights that maybe they should have and i think some of the second round narrative. Some of it was like the first time they made the second round, they were completely like San Jose was a better team back year. The fact that that team got to game seven was an accomplishment in itself. The next year, everyone was hurt against Dallas. So that was kind of a weird one. The Vegas series in 2021, that's the one. I think that when you talk to the players and to the coaching staff, it's like that's the one that really bugs them because they really felt

that like they had the team that year and they just didn't do it. They didn't show up. And now they have showed up. Like you said, they know they can do it. And I think that you kind of get that championship swagger after you win and that can carry them. I don't know if they're going to be better necessarily because they tied a record for like the most wins. Or they set a record for the most wins in a salary cap era if you take postseason plus regular season.

So it's it's a really, really. this past season was in a pretty incredible run. But I think that even with the pieces they're losing, they definitely are going to be, they have this core intact that's so good. And Cal McCar is only 23 and who knows what he's capable of. So I think that they could at least be close to his good going forward if things go well and if they don't have the Stanley Cup hangover and all that stuff.

So we'll see. You mentioned people saying the Colorado Avalanche are good, but the three of us have discussed quite a few times this year what it would take for Jared Bednar to keep his job. They need to make it to X to keep his job. I think actually I might have asked you that question, but last time you were on, now that just goes through the roof and out the window and everything, right?

I mean, it's always been that little bit of a, you've got to be able to take this team, at least to a Stanley Cup final and hopefully make him a Stanley Cup champion, which he's done. his job is very, very secure for a long time, I would assume now, right? Yeah, I would think so. I mean, you look at Joe Sackick.

I don't think Joe Sackick is someone who likes making moves or firing coaches or things like that. Like, he's inherently a patient person. And like I'd mentioned with the Matt D'S Shane trade. So maybe some GMs would have fired Bedenar after 3-3 second round losses. Jesse, do you think he would have gotten fired in Vegas if he? I think they would have fired him in the middle of the Vegas soon. No, if you're fun for yourself. The deal's already cut.

Yeah, exactly. So I think Sackick is a pretty patient person, and this definitely gives Bednar plenty of rope. I mean, this was, he did. Jesse and I talked in Montreal about the different, like, the growth that seemed like he had between last year and this year as a coach in the playoffs was pretty notable. And I think he did a really good job with this team.

outcoached some good coaches along the way. Obviously, having a super talented roster helps with that, but you got to put it together and he held it together. He helped it together better than the team held the Stanley Cup together, damaging it mere minutes after being awarded it. Pete, as always, thanks so much for coming on. Enjoy the rest, man, because you mentioned it is a two-month grind. So get some rest before next season.

Well, yeah, we need non-comadry to sign so I get some last month. Never. He's doing this to spite you. He knows you want some time off, and he's like, no, to hell with it? I've got my team, I'm ready to go. He's got a side of the dotted line. Lou Lamarrella is keeping it secret just to... Yeah, he's good at it.

He's good at it. Pete, thanks so much. Yeah, thank you so much. I appreciate it. Peter Baugh, who of course covers the announced the Hintley Cup champion Colorado Avalanche. After the break, we'll find out what Jesse and Sarah up to in the next week. So don't go anywhere.

All right, guys, now that the Montreal Hangover has officially gone away, you guys have to actually get back to work. What do you got on top coming up in the next week? Good question. Maybe still reeling from the hangover. I'll be doing some free agency stuff. I'm on Nino-neiderWatch, so I'm sure something will happen this week with that. Jesse?

So I do have some Golden Knights prospect stories coming out just because it was development camp here in Vegas. but I'm also working on a piece. This was really fun. We actually worked on it yesterday, and it's me, Sean McIndoo and Ian Mendez, who are on the Thursday show. And we did.

McIndoo always comes up with these crazy ideas of lists, of drafts, of some kind of hypothetical situation. And this one, to me, is awesome. He, so Sean combined the draft classes from both expansions. From 2017 in Vegas, we took all those lists.

We combined them with all the lists. that Seattle had to choose from this past summer. And then we held an actual expansion draft. So like when Columbus and multiple teams came in, they had to, like when Vegas and Seattle drafted, it wasn't actually a draft. It was just, here's our list. Those are the players we want. So Ian took control of Seattle and I took control of Vegas and we went back and forth

alternating picks. And it's interesting to see because when they picked these expansion lists, you don't know who were their top priority picks. So we actually had to prioritize the picks. And it's fascinating to see the results. I thought that the Vegas draft was going to be like all the picks were going to be from 2017 because the Golden Knights made out so well in that. And it actually wasn't the case.

It was pretty split down the middle between the 2017 class and the 2020 class. So we have that one coming out tomorrow on the athletic and we'll also have a reader poll that readers can vote who drafted better me or Ian Mendez. you know, sometimes I tell some of my friends and family what I do every day, and they say, you get paid money to do that? Yeah. John McInckis's career. Both of you, in this show, I felt like saying, Sarah, you get paid money just to analyze player suits. Jesse, you get paid money to make these hypothetical drafts, but I'm so glad you do because I love reading all of it.

Guys, good show. See you next week. Well. I was seeing you next week. I was like, see you next week. Like, is that a question? And like, yeah, all right. We hopefully will see those two next week.

And hopefully you'll be back to listen as well. And remember, follow us on your favorite podcast platform. Leave a rating, leave a review. It helps us out a lot. Subscribe to the Athletic Audio Plus on Apple Podcasts to get all the bonus content from your entire network. Start with a 30-day free trial, just 99 cents a month after that.

And right now you get an annual subscription to The Athletic for just a dollar a month for six months when you visit Theathletic.com slash hockey show. The athletic hockey show returns next week, hopefully with Jesse and Sarah. They didn't want to answer the question. Maybe they're going to take next week off. I'll be back.

I promise. All these guys, we'll be back. So will I. We'll see you next week.