The Athletic Hockey Show - Max Bultman on Jakub Vrana and the direction of the Red Wings, Trevor Zegras: stick thief, and predicting NHL All-Star fan votes

Episode Date: January 6, 2023

Hailey and Sean discuss Max Pacioretty's return to the Hurricanes, Jake DeBrusk going on LTIR, and Hailey's favorite hockey moment of the week- Trevor Zegras stealing an opponent's stick. Then, friend of the show Max Bultman jumps on to give a big picture of the World Juniors, dive into Jakub Vrana and the Red Wings, and what route the team could take at the trade deadline. To wrap up, the NHL has expanded fan power in the All-Star voting this year, and the duo try to predict moves fanbases could make.Save on a subscription to The Athletic: http://theathletic.com/hockeyshowSubscribe to The Athletic Hockey Show on YouTube: http://youtube.com/@theathletichockeyshowCancel unwanted subscriptions – and manage your expenses the easy way – by going to http://RocketMoney.com/HOCKEYSHOW Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the athletic hockey show. All right, everybody, it's Friday. That means it's time for another edition of the athletic hockey show on Friday. It's a weird. That's a high energy. High energy opening there already. Wow.

All right. Everybody ready. It's Friday. I was trying to hype myself up, and I should have just started by singing. No, I think it's fine that you didn't. Friday. What did I say about this bouncing? What did I tell you about yappers?

Well, welcome, everyone. It's Haley Salvi in here with Sean Chintilly. It's another edition of the athletic hockey show on Friday. I already said that. We're just so excited to be back. We have Max Boltman on the show. We're going to talk a bit about the Detroit Red Wings and the Jacob Vrana situation. he was waived and then he cleared waivers.

So dig into that with Max. And we're going to talk a bit about the World Juniors. Yeah, maybe he did a fauxpaw. He was getting prepped for Pranman Fest. Well, so this is the peak behind the curtain. I texted Max and said, you go to just, you know, go into Red Wings, a bit of World Juniors. He was like, maybe not World Juniors because I've got a full prospect show on World Juniors. And I said, okay, sure.

And then what did you do? And then I was like, I'm going to ask him about World Juniors anyways. I'm going to ask them 10 minutes of questions about World Juniors. Okay, well, they were like broader questions. Look, I think that they're going to dig into some of that on the show on Friday. And they're also going to talk about the gold medal game, which is starting in about three minutes while we're recording the show. Who cares? So by the time the game's done, you know, whatever.

I thought it was interesting. It was. it was because I've said this plenty of times on it's me and Craig or me and you I need other people to tell me about prospects that is one of the things that I outsource I'm like I pay attention to enough

that is that but that is the the vertical that I'm just like I need to be I need to be told what's what right so it that entails trusting Max and Corey in Wheeler and Chris Peter and guys like that who are 99.9 more tapped into that world than I am. Right.

And there's a lot of people like that to maybe want generalized info on these guys without maybe getting as granular as those four dorks are definitely going to get tonight. That was me. I say it with them. They're wonderful dudes. I've had Wheeler on my radio show on Sportsnet like five times. in the last three weeks. Yeah.

It's like, hey, you're good to come on again? Yeah, you're taking advantage of his friendship in mining him for information. Unpaid labor in the form of Scott Wheeler. He's getting paid in exposure. And that,

my friends, is as good as cash. That's right. So Scott hasn't been around long enough. He needs my radio show. To grow his platform and his brand. That was a joke. Don't yell at me. Anyways, we've got a couple things, a couple newsy bits that we want to get into before we talk to Max.

And then we're going to have a little bit of fun in the third segment. We're going to talk a bit about the All-Star game. So by the time the show is out, we will know who the first eight players are on the divisional rosters for the All-Star game. That's in Florida. But there's a big fan vote element to it. Sean and I are going to have some fun with that in the third segment of this show. No draft this week.

We're stopping the draft because I won last week and that's good. We're going to end on a high note. I won in the eyes and the hearts of our fans, not in Danielle. Daniel's eyes. I get the tastemakers. That's all that matters. Danielle is a free thinker. She's not trapped under the thumb of Big McDavid.

That's what it is. You got the first pick. You took Connor. Not even sure if he's good. Do we really know, I guess, is the question. Yeah. Scott Wheeler, for example. Amelia was just like, disrespect him.

Whatever. On Twitter, when he saw the roster, said you wanted to walk or whatever it is. That's the exact kind of person I'm talking about. Big McDavid has him right where he wants them. Stay woke, friends. Pay attention. Vote for the old guy who chooses other. old guys with his trap.

Is Char is still around? Can I pick him? Yeah. That was the, that was actually Sean's first overall selection and then we told him that Char retired and then we had to, you know, pause for a few minutes. And then he and Danielle edited the show to make it look like I panicked and couldn't decide. That didn't happen.

I mean, my editing is pretty good. I'm not sure it's that good. That's just what they want you to believe, guys. Those crickets were real. Ponti McDavid, by the way, is 33 goals and 73 points in 39 games. Is he actually going to hit 150 points? Are we sick of talking about that? He's not making it fun for anybody.

Like I, okay, so two days ago, Tate H. Thompson has a hat trick. It got him to 30 goals on the season, I believe. Yes. This is a few days after you and a, and Jesse Granger had, you know, added our little blurbs about our all staff revised predictions 3.0, I believe. And I picked Tage to win the Rocket Richard just because, like, why not if it happens? Did you actually? Yes.

Oh, that's great. When I said in the write-up, thanks for reading, as always, I said in the write-up. I was focused on my own part. That's fun. that it was just a pure attempt at manifestation. Like I just wanted, I wanted to put that into the universe and make it so. And then the next day or two days later,

Big Strong, Tage Thompson has a hat trick. And I tweet about it and I make the joke and I'm like, let's go. It's happening. And I think like at the moment that I tweeted it, McDavid scored. Like he can't even,

he can't even let me have like one night's, worth the joke. A minute of peace. And I do think, I think that's like instructive in a way. He still needs three goals back though. Like the dream's not over. It's not over,

but it shows how hard it is though because even, even if you're Tage Thompson who, who scores goals and punches, right? Like he just, it seems like he has these, these mega games. How demoralizing must it be to know that basically every night

it's going to be something from McDavid? So you have a hatcher. and the end result is only a net gain of two. And that's always the way it's going to work. On any given night, if you have a hat trick, you can just pencil in, you know, McDavid kind of tacking back on. And frankly, I'm sick of it.

I'm sick of it. I'm sick of the fan boys. I'm sick of the Connor McDavid fan boys. Who, I'm kidding. He's... Where are you going with this one? I don't know. He's great.

He's great. I just want more opportunity to make jokes, and he's snuffing it out because he's too good. He's better than everybody. It's not fair. It's almost hard to continue to find things to talk about when it comes to Connor McDavid.

It's almost like, so he's had five games this season where he hasn't had a point. Like we don't even get the opportunity to be like, oh, oh, Oilers lost, no McDavid's score. What happened? It's like it's just, it's just, it's demoralizing. It's got to be demoralizing if you, if you were trying to catch this guy

in any meaningful way, because the slumps just aren't there. always, and that's the difference. That's always the difference between a guy like McDavid and a guy like Crosby and everybody else is that they don't have stretches where they go in the tank production-wise. They're always going to scratch and claw and figure out some way, even when they're not playing well, to end up with five points in four games or snapping a scoreless streak at two or whatever. They're going to grind it out and find something because that's what superlative talent does. So thoughts in prayers, in warm wishes to Tage Thompson and everybody else is trying to catch that dude in anything this year because I don't think it's happening.

Yeah, McDavid, by the way, is on pace for 153 points over an 82 game season. Is that good? But can you win in the playoffs with him? I don't know. I mean, no, probably not because he hasn't yet. I think this was the one thing that we didn't. Do you think you made the Elster roster? Yeah.

We'll talk about that in segment three. I know we did this conversation last week and this is the last thing because we had newsy bits to talk about before we segued and ran off the tracks with the McDavid conversation. The whole thing with like, can you win with McDavid in the playoffs? Like if I'm building a roster from scratch, I'm not taking McDavid first overall because I think you can win with somebody else. That is dinging McDavid.

for the oiler's inability to build the other pieces around him. Right? Yeah. I don't have pity for Connor McDavid, though, because he willing to sign up for fraud. I'm not pitying Conner McDavid. I'm talking about the discussion that people have of, like, can you win with Connor McDavid? It's not Connor McDavid's fault that the Oilers haven't won in the postseason.

It's not, but I think that also kind of he's got more juice than I think even he realizes. with that roster. I think it is his fault. He's the general manager. Coach and general manager. Yeah. Anything that goes wrong with that organization is his fault. No, I'm just, look, I'm just looking for, I'm looking for, I'm looking for awards here.

Okay. Max Pataretti's back. He's expected to play for the Carolina Hurricanes tonight. So by the time you listen to the show in the morning, we will have seen Patchretti in the lineup for the Carolina Hurricanes. Rod Brindamore said in a local radio show in Raleigh today that Patrady's going to bounce around the lineup, quote, he may play with a combination of a lot of people. It's a big ad for a Carolina team that's one of the best in the league already.

Like how much better are they about to get with Max Petruetti in the lineup? I think he's going to add what they wanted him to add when they brought him in over the summer, right? We talked to Rod about it. We talked to Rod Brindamore in October or November or whenever that was. He was even at that point. Yeah. Even at that point, he was just, he was excited about the prospect of being able to add

Max Patcher Ready at some point because that's what Carolina is lacked. I know I got like, I know Hurricanes fans in particular, like they got mad at me for saying it so often in the, in the power rankings and wherever else last year. but it was born out to be true. They need another guy. They need a guy who is a pretty legit top end finisher, who's done in the playoffs, who you can look at in the third period of game three

when the series is tied 1-1 and say, like, do something, make it happen. Is it oomph per 60? I don't know. It's zip. We've talked about this. This is a dip. He had some zip, some zip-a.

They need goal scores, whether it's secondary, whether it's primary. They need people who can put the puck in the net, because that's the difference between them being very good and them being a legitimate, high-end, top-of-the-table threat to win the Stanley Cup, is having a guy like Max Patcheretti in the lineup, contributing, looking like himself, in clicking with all those wonderful pieces who play that wonderful brand of hockey that we've come to expect from Rod Brindamore

and the Carolina Hurricanes. They need top end pep. And that's patchy ready. And it's Brent Burns. Is he said, pep? Yeah, the peas pop too.

Isn't that great? But I'm psyched. I'm psyched to see it. I think that's a fun little early January treat for us because games can get boring around this time, right? Where you're like,

trade deadline isn't quite here. The shine of the early season is certainly off. We're looking for storylines. We're looking to cement kind of our opinions of teams. We're looking for anything that gives us reason to differentiate from that is welcome. So throwing Max Patcherady at the top of the Carolina lineup is example A of that.

I'm glad to. see it. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, we talked about this before and again with Rod Brindamore, like this is Carolina's baked in boost from the trade deadline, right? Like, this is their mid-season acquisition, but it's just coming internally for a guy that they essentially got for nothing. For free. From the Vegas Golden Knights. And this is a great player. He had 19 goals and 37 points in 39 games last season with the Vegas goldenites. The hope is obviously you already missed a chunk of time, but the hope is that he can have some consistent games put together with Carolina

and continue to produce in such a way. So that's a big addition. The other subtraction, we can just go over quickly. We don't really need to get into it too much because we want to get to my personal favorite thing that happened in the league this week. But Jake DeBrusk on LTIR, hand slash and lower body injury suffered in the winter classic. He's expected to miss four weeks. Boston Bruins, this isn't the first injury they've gone through.

I mean, Jim Montgomery's got the Jack Adams in the bag already. I don't see this being something that torpedoes the Boston Bruins. They're number one in the league. They've had worse players out for a longer period of time. but that's just another wrinkle for the Bruins this season. Okay, my favorite thing that happened. Trevor Zegris. You were hell-bent on talking about this on the podcast.

It's great. It's fun. This is why I am such a big fan about Trevor Zegris. He just provides the content, even though the ducks aren't very good. Actually, they beat the Dallas Stars last night, too, nothing. Okay, so Trevor Zegris, he's a big fan. in the corner, he's in a board battle with UL Kiva-ir-a-Ranta, breaks a stick. And what does he do? He just grabs the stick from Kiva-Varanta. Like, this is mine now. And then he just fades to the

net front and waits. And then obviously the refs blow the whistle. And he's just like, what? He gets called for, what was it? Like, I don't have the exact word in front of me. It's like stealing a stick. And sportsman like contact or conduct or something? No. Fept. Fetty theft. Petty theft.

Of stick. Five minutes for petty theft. A five minute major. That's one of those things that I didn't know. I don't think I realize until last night that that was illegal. Right. And so we heard from Trevor Zegress after the game. Let's play the clip.

My stick broke and I pinned them up against the glass and I was like, well, I was going to steal a stick and everyone knew it was a penalty about me, I guess. And the only thing I could remember was Bobby Ryan scoring with a right-handed stick. And that's the first thing that came to mind when I broke mine was, I'm going to steal this guy's stick. And they teed me up pretty quickly. So I tried to claim that I found it on the ice, which nobody was buying. So I think it's great. I think it's hilarious because this happened with Corey Perry and Bobby Ryan. And we will retweet.

When we post the show, we'll kind of add the tweet to the link because the Ducks did post with the Trevor Zegris comment. You know, the two other instances where this happened. It's just like the Ducks love stealing other people's sticks and scoring goals with it. And Trevor Zegris is like, well, Bobby Ryan did it. So so can I. I think it's hilarious. They have a long, illustrious franchise history of behavior such as this. You know, it reminded me of, oh, my gosh, I don't even want to.

look at how long ago this was. It had to be 10 years ago. Scott Hartnell, when he was on the flyers, they were playing the the lightning. He was Ryan Malone had a break away. And Hartnell threw his glove at Malone, like,

took off his own glove and threw it at Malone as Malone was like making a move and tight on the goaltender. Not allowed, frowned upon. A penalizable play. And that's what it reminded me of last night. I think if you went in doubt, just hope it's legal.

That's my stance. It's my stance in life. It's my stance in hockey, doing my taxes, whatever. Just cross your fingers and pray. Maybe you'll get away with it. I think my favorite part was like in the moment, Zegra's doing the like, what? What? And then in the clip that we just had, he's just like, yeah,

nobody was buying that. I thought this was mine. I just picked up the stick. I thought it was mine. I didn't know my stick broke. It's like you yanked it right out of his hands. And he was like, yeah. Nobody was buying it.

I thought it was on the ground. It was standing in such a way where the end was... Yeah, he tried to claim that he found it on the ice, which nobody was buying. He basically had a timeout for stealing someone else's toy. I think the funny. So it was 2010 when this happened with Bobby Ryan. He scored a goal using Miko Koivu's stick after Koivu had stolen Bobby Ryan's stick. So that one's whatever.

It's just like, okay, I'm just going to go and steal with your stick. And I believe it was the other shot, too. So we scored with a right-handed stick. That's funny. Which is great. And then a couple years after Corey Perry did it. But the Perry ones even kind of the best of all of these, because he just, took the stick off the bench.

Like, it was skating by Carolina's bench and, like, grabbed, grabbed the stick straight out of a guy's hands. Cory Perry, baby. The one and only. I love Cory Perry. Anyways, we're going to go talk to Max Bolton. Now, I think the whole point of this conversation is Trevor Zegris is fun, and that should be legal.

I think if you can be crafty enough to take another guy's stick and score with it, it should count. Guard your stuff. It's fun. Guard your things. Grip your stick a little tighter, you all. That's all I'm saying. Let's talk to Max Bolman.

All right. I'm not sure how to introduce our next guest. Is he a friend of the show? Do we kind of hate him? It's Max Boltman. Sean, what do we do with this one? Because he's the hated Max Bolton on him. Tuesdays, but on Thursdays we like Max.

We dropped that. Oh. He's just Max. It's my buddy Max. Okay. It's friend of the show, Max Walton. Max, hello. Sean and I should have figured that out before we brought you on.

I just, I think this is the second time that Haley has tried to turn Sean against me on some, some version of a podcast episode. Personalized, professional lives. I just want you to spend more time with me. He's been resolute. He's a ride or die. He's out to get you, brother. No. No, I like Max. I want more time with Max. For myself. Max is, yeah, Max is, trying to say that very carefully. Taking, taking time for us away from time spent with Corey Prondman and the prospects, guys.

Yes. We're recording this at a quarter to six on Eastern time on Thursday. So there's a game of some importance, I guess, taking place tonight in the world of, prospect evaluation. You guys are going to be, who is, who is, who is, who is showing up on the, on the Thursday night prospect extravagance other than you and Corey? You, Corey, Scott, is that it? I don't know if Scott's going to be on it or Chris Peters or if it's just me and Corey. I think there's a slack conversation that I'm semi ignoring happening to that effect right now. So I'm kind of looking forward to being surprised at that.

Yeah, for sure. Well, we know that you're going to have a podcast, regardless of who's on it after the gold medal game. You guys will talk about everything that happened in that game. It's Canada versus Czechia in the gold medal game, Sweden, USA, in the bronze medal game. Because I don't want these things to be stale by the time our listener friends are listening to the show. I'll just stick more generally on the world juniors with you, Max. Is there, you know, from the start of the tournament to now, a major takeaway from the games that you've watched? Or is it a just like the tournament of Connor Bredard. I think that is it. And honestly, whether that can get

stale or whether it's already been stale or whatever, like he's just been unreal. And I think that that has to be the first, second, and third story of this tournament. Because it wasn't just that he was really good. It's that he's, you know, putting together a historic tournament for an under 18 player. And, you know, it's kind of funny. Like the first couple games of the tournament, in my opinion, And I know, I think technically the tournament is counting it this way, which I think is ridiculous, double counting the canceled tournament last winter and the summer one. Yeah. I thought people were kind of like, okay, you can buy into that, I guess, if you want. But what's funny now is he might pass that 31 number for a Canadian player just anyway, like without having to double count that, which speaks in two tournaments.

I mean, it's just ridiculous, especially two tournaments for an under 18 player. I don't know, you know, I mean, he scores that golden goal in the quarter. final game, like, which is obviously a signature moment for someone who doesn't need one, doesn't need another one, I should say. Yeah. But he's been unreal. I mean, it's got to start there, right? Yeah, and Canada going for back-to-back gold medals at the World Juniors again against

Chequia. The bronze medal game, I did watch all of it. Oh, my God. The U.S. win, eight, seven, and overtime. It's Chas Lucius with the game winner. I think the one other big topic that I've seen. And maybe it's just because I'm on Twitter too much and I see too much online. Was Luke Hughes really that bad or people just like to jump in on that conversation?

I didn't think he had a horrible tournament, but what's your take on this? One of their three top players of the tournament. So that tells you that the coaches didn't feel that way, obviously. I mean, like, Luke Hughes' game, I think, can sometimes be ripe for nitpicking because for as dynamic of a skater at offensive players. He can, as he is, you know, you can see the defensive warts creep in a little bit at times. And I think this team, honestly, was put together in a way that was always going to make that

vulnerable. Like, he's one of the few defensemen with any size that they have. He's been asked to take on all these super tough, you know, matchups kind of as a result of that. They didn't have a shutdown deep pair that could take any strain off of him. And I just think it made it right for that kind of conversation. But like, if you're a New Jersey devil's, fan. Are you discouraged by this tournament from Luke Hughes? I don't think so. Do you?

No, I don't think so. I don't think so. Just like generally, though, like conceptually, are you, where do you stand? Okay with dumping on 18-year-olds. I'm just kidding. Are you okay with, or do you reject the idea that players can dig themselves a whole in like a five-game sample size at this, at this, tournament. Like is it because again, I know a fraction of, you know, about the about these guys is, as you guys do. But it's, it's hard for me to stomach. Like, I know it's best on best and that counts for a lot. But to me, this, this feels like it should be extra credit. Like, you would have to be, you out, you'd have to be really, really bad and look really out of place

in my book to truly meaningfully, functionally change the evaluation of a, of a, of yourself as a prospect, right? And just to hop in before you go, Max, sorry, I think, like, the other player other than League Cues in this conversation is Adam Fantilli, who didn't have a great start, but he's putting up, like, historic numbers, potentially historic if we're going off pace in the NCAA right now, like, how do you evaluate that kind of thing? Yeah, I think John makes a good, it's a good way of putting it as kind of extra credit, right? Like, I mean, in the end of the day, you're probably going to judge Luke Hughes a little tougher

than you would judge Adam Fintilly, who is younger and playing at his first one of these. But to me, it doesn't change what your evaluation of the player necessarily is. But if you have these kind of concerns or questions about a guy's game and you see him in this environment, right? Like, you could make a reasonable argument is the NCAA where Luke Hughes plays regularly a tougher environment than the world juniors. and for this kind of question, like I guess it would be kind of defensively or whatever.

Like, if you take a step down, I guess maybe you would expect to have that be a non-issue or whatever, but I don't know. Like, he's still very close to a point per game in this tournament. Like, Fantilli is very close to a point per game in this tournament. And he's in his first one. You got a really self-dust.

I guess that's kind of what I was getting on. You have to really self-destruct, I feel like, to, to, to, subtract all that many points from the overall deal. These guys are also being compared to Connor Bedard right now. Totally. Like it's not, it's not, it's not fair. You're not going to go and do what he's doing at this tournament.

Wait, so is he going to pass the Forsberg record for points? Like, because of this combination thing that's happening from last year? No, because that one, that's 31 in one tournament. Right. So the Lindross one was 31, like, by a Canadian at the world juniors. I got you. Right. Yeah.

Okay. It's like career. I knew that. I just wasn't sure if that was. I mean, he could have a crazy game tonight and do it. But I don't. Oh, my God.

I'm going to have to rewrite something for the NHL 99 that's going to air that's, that's going to run tomorrow morning if so. So let's keep, let's keep a little buddy in single ditches tonight, please. That's a very fair request. So this is my final world junior request before we move on. Please let it be so, by the way. I've had enough of this.

Okay. You're just a sore loser because. the U.S. lost in the semifinals. Uh, correct. Enjoy the bronze medal. Um,

I think that it's only fair that you guys have to sing the Canadian national anthem to me and Danielle. No. We know how that went. Canada has a national anthem? Yes, it's beautiful. Oh,

wow. Hmm. I've never heard the Canadian national anthem. I've never had to sing as part of a bet on this. I just think it'd be really fun. Do not. Do not. We'll get the,

we'll get the moose. you know, though, the video that Jerome did for you and Craig. Yeah. You can't make a retroactive bet after your team has already won this tournament. It was just a request.

Won the game. I wasn't betting. It was just, I just think it would be really nice. All right. It's fine. Never mind. Let's talk about the Red Wings. No more hockey playing teenagers.

We're done with that. We brought you here to talk about the Red Wings. They were... The Jacob Verona situation is not ending anytime soon. I think whether he's in the HL or not, there's still some left to shake out there. And for anybody who doesn't know, Verona returned from the player assistance program

was back on the job for a bit, and then the Red Wings waived him. He cleared waivers. He's now playing with their HL affiliate in Grand Rapids. Really gifted goal score makes more than $5 million a year, signed through next season. And he was available for everybody and nobody bit. So where do you stand on that?

I know it's a touchy situation. For sure. When that happened, how surprised were you? and like kind of have how the last 72 hours played out on your end. The whole thing has been kind of weird for a couple of reasons. Like you mentioned, he says it comes out of the player assistance program. He practices with them for a while. And, you know, they make the completely logical expected move,

which is to send him for a brief conditioning loan to Grand Rapids, right? So they say when they do that, they're going to do it for three games. Three games go by, you know, with the chance that he was going to make his return, yesterday, Wednesday against the Devils. The three games don't go great for him. Like he's a minus five, he has no points. But up at that point, there was no indication other than maybe what they said they were going to do a couple of days before they waived him, which was extend the conditioning loan to the full two weeks.

You ought to take 14 days maximum on a stint like that. The Reddings had a roster crunch, and they've been carrying three goalies. And so I think almost everyone was expecting that the solution. to this problem was going to just be of having needing a roster spot to activate Robbie Fabry who's coming back from an ACL was going to be to just waive a goalie but they also could have sent down a waiver exempt forward they have three of those on the roster they could have waived someone that they're scratching I think right now they're scratching Adam Ernie you know I think Adam Ernie would have had a chance to get claimed because he can contribute

to someone but but it's nonetheless that there were options available for them here and so I don't think anyone thought it was going to be Jacob Vrana like this is a guy who's been one of the, in terms of, he hasn't played a lot, but he's in terms of when he's on the ice, very few people score goals at the rate that Jacob Verona does. And I, I don't know what to make of it other than maybe they just felt like for how little he's played $5.25 million. Like, you know, I know they didn't want to take any of these rookies out of their lineup, Soder Blum, Bergen, you know, Valena's not a rookie, but he's played really well, his waiver exempt. They didn't want to take those guys out. But it surprises me that they were willing to expose him.

to the whole league, granted only the portion of the league that could have afforded the cap, which is small. And it's surprised with me even a little more. No one took him. So I don't know what to make of it. Do you think they wanted someone to take him? How about that? Because sometimes, you know, you see.

It's a good question. Did they have their fingers crossed and hope he snuck through? Like, was this the outcome they wanted? Or if you, in their heart of hearts, were they hoping that somebody would take them off their hands? I don't know what they wanted. But if you're putting someone on waivers, you're at least okay with that. Like anyone that you're going to cross your fingers and hope for when you have that many alternatives available to you, you're probably just not putting in that position.

And I know there's people out there who think this is like a 3D chess. Eisenman crunched the numbers and knew that nobody could do it or maybe took a straw poll and knew nobody could do it. Maybe. But I don't think you take that risk if it's that important. And I mean, it has to color what we think the Red Wings think of Jacob Verona. And we'll never know. Steve Eisenman is not going to talk about something like this. Yeah, right, maybe.

You might catch him in the right moment. 2023 new Steve Eiserman. Maybe. Maybe that's his new businessman. He's nice now. Yeah. I mean, moving on from the brand of conversation, because it is tough, right? And I know that Derek Lalonde didn't really want to get into the conversations that he and Steve

Eiserman had about this, about why, because there is. a privacy element here because Jacob Vrana is coming out of the player assistance program. So we don't want to- But he is playing. Like he should like he played last night in Green Rapids. He's with Grand Rapids. He played those three games. To anything we know, a new development on that song. Yes, of course.

Yeah. It's just we don't nobody ever. I think that's just what Lal said like there's privacy. We're not going to get into it. He is playing though. Like he's not. To make it very clear, he's not in the program. He's out.

He's out of the hockey right now. Just not with the Detroit Red Wings. In your assessment, though, like, what's the argument against him as a hockey player? Right? Because I think people on the outside are like, well, this is, okay, this is a team that's ostensibly in a playoff fight here. You could probably use a guy who, you know, is capable of putting the puck in the net like him. And I fall more to that camp. Like, if I look at the Red Wings roster right now, I think they've done a pretty good job of building a little bit of an identity that really cares about, you know, playing the right way and defense and all this stuff.

I think that is probably very important, not probably, that is very important for a team in their position. But if I look at what they lack, it's high-end offense and scoring ability. That is what Jacob Verona is. I probably would fall into the camp that it's okay to have somebody who deviates a little bit from that. But if I were to look at this and just say, well, with his game, what hockey-wise could this be, I think it's probably would have something to do with him being a little bit one-dimensional, like for as good as that release is. if he doesn't have the puck, you tend to not notice him. He tends to not be involved in battles.

And could I see an argument that he doesn't fit with what you're trying to do? And you know, you're not going to take someone out who has shown that they do, especially some of these young guys who also have some offense, obviously not maybe to the degree that Jacob Verona does. Then you make that argument. I think you can make an argument that how much time he's missed. And if someone wants to take that salary, okay. but hockey-wise, like, I think my feeling on it is the same as what public opinion was.

Surprise me, it won't take that risk. But if I'm looking for a hockey reason for why, it probably would come down to that. Just not much off-puck impact on a team that has tried to make that a priority. And he hasn't really played that much with the Red Wings since he was acquired in the the Manta deal, right? Because he comes in at the deadline and then he has the off-season surgery. He's out for four, I mean, training camp surgery, not even. an off-season surgery.

Because he misses the four months. Yes. Misses four months. Looks really good in the 26 games, I think, 26 games he played last season. But, you know, it's been a really small sample size for him in the Detroit Red Wings. Absolutely. Looking at the team as a whole now, zooming out and exiting the Verona conversation. What do we make in the Red Wings, Max?

Like, do we know what this team is at this point? season. They're almost the halfway point. They're 36 games in. There's been points of the season where they've looked like they could be, you know, the top of the bubble team. Like they're in it. They're in and around it. There's been points where their season's been teetering after losing streaks. There's been some highs and lows. And I think there's a lot of people still deciding what to make of the 2022-23 Detroit Wedwings. Red Wings, excuse me. Detroit. Clip that. That. Going to have to clip that. The Detroit Weddings

Daniel, cut that out I'm just kidding I sound like such a brat Every time I yell at Danielle out on the mic And I think that's It's funny I don't speak to Danielle like this I swear it's just a bit

What do we make of this team? That one time that I was trying to get Allison's attention She sits on the couch Like there's like a line of sight That I can see her from And I needed to get her attention Because like something was going to like

Fall off a table I just snap out her Yeah I just was like Snap your fingers And everyone was like Oh my God Is that all you do to your fiance.

Miss that. Hey, Allison. And there's absolutely no correlation between Haley yelling at me and me never picking her draft picks ever. Ooh, baby. We can talk about Ellen later.

Well, guess what? I didn't win that last poll. Have they put the wheels back on the truck, though? Like, they've got six points out of ten here. Like, they were on... Wait, just let him answer my question. No, it is. We're restating the question

because we just sit there and do shit. Old shot. for 30 seconds. I think, I think De Haley's phrasing, like, do we know what they are? I think yes. I think they're exactly what they've been, which is a team that is improved and on more nice than not going to give their opponent a really good game and more often than previous years going to win that game.

But in the end, still not as talented as you need to be to be a playoff team in the Eastern Conference and still not as consistent as you need to be to get there just on grit. Like if, you know, if you want to play that New York Islanders game, you can get in over more talented teams, but you have to be at like 75 out of 82 nights. And I think right now the Red Wings are that team on like 55 out of 82 nights kind of thing. And they're not going to win all those anyway. So that's what I think they are. I don't know if that's too harsh, but I just think they're still, you know, one to two rungs short of where they'll also need to be.

Yeah, they're a bubble team instead of a basement dweller. That's improvement. Yeah. And a wrong side of the bubble team, right? Yes. But it is improvement. And I think I was having this conversation with someone the other day. Like, should the Red Wings, like, do you think they regret getting better?

Because because they got better of their own volition, like they signed Dip, Chirot. They didn't have to do those things. They could have still been one of these teams that's in the bottom. Seven, eight, had this really good chance at Connor Bedard. But I really do think the longer that you went without taking a step forward, it was really getting. into kind of the Buffalo zone for them where you can't be that bad forever without it having lasting effects. I think it's interesting with the Red Wings because like they're improved.

They're not quite there yet. So what lane do we think they take at the trade deadline? We're just under two months away. We're starting to talk about this stuff more legitimately now. The Red Wings have some unrestricted free agents like Dill and Larkin. They could take a cup. They could take a step back post. if they wanted to get more into the lottery.

And maybe there's some good juju that happens for the Red Wings because of how many times they just completely drop back in the lottery odds. But what lane do you think the Red Wing? Yeah, I'm sorry. I think they're sellers, though. I think they're sellers. Like in the question is just like to what degree? Because they're going to have pending unrestricted free agents. And when you're not a playoff team, those guys usually go.

They have a couple guys like Ole Amato would be a guy. I think he's shown enough this year that you could really make an argument to keep him and play him with like Simon Edvinson next year potentially, even though he would be on his offhand. You know, Oscar Sunfist would not be a bad guy

for them to keep around. Like he's a good locker room guy. He brings some elements that they don't have. But playoff teams probably are calling about both of those guys. And if they call with the right offer, like that's kind of the reality of the league. The interesting one is going to be Tyler Bertusie.

And I know people are going to also want to talk about Dylan Larkin. I still think that they will not deal Larkin, that they will find a way to get something done, whether it gets done before the deadline or not. But Pertuzi is a guy that if you don't have the deal done yet, you have to see what the league thinks there. And he doesn't have the no trade clause that Larkin has. I mean, that's going to be the interesting one to watch for me. And, you know, I could not probably call it one way or the other. I put in my 2023 predictions.

I think he does get traded. But it's going to be interesting. You swiped it. I was going to ask him about Bertuzzi or Larkin and let you go. It's what happened to be known each other a long time. Max, I look forward to bringing you back in like three weeks for another episode of Oli Mata Talk. There's like a minute.

We have to mention Oli, I feel like every time we're in a pot together. So it's always fun. It is. How's you doing? I mean, he's doing good. He had pneumonia recently, but he's come back from that. Of course he did. It was actually, honestly, do you remember Lalone came on with us?

And he was talking about, like, they've been so lucky to not have any of their deemus any time. And like four days later, he got pneumonia. So, but you said three weeks. Like, do you really think Craig's not taking a week off in the next three weeks? Bolsonaro, Craig Bolsonaro. He's going to get sick. What does he even do? He's getting, he's getting COVID again.

He's due. Oh. Who knows? Well, don't joke about that. Don't know his job. Don't know his life. Get the hell out of here. Max is going to replace him.

Very, very, very soon. Thanks, buddy. Enjoy the, enjoy the, enjoy the promen fest in a couple hours there. And, and whatever, whatever watching of the game, did you have planned? Thanks, guys.

Thanks for having me. Thanks again, do our frenemy, Max Boltman? Do people still use that term? I don't know. I think so. He's got a big trip coming up, by the way. I'm not going to spill it,

but pay attention to the datelines on his, on his work over the, over the next few months, because he's got a fun. once he unchackles himself from Corey Pranman. Good luck.

And as I said, Godspeed. Our third segment today is about the, we touched on this in the, off the top. You all know who the first batch

of NHL All-Stars are this year. Right, Haley? It was they were releasing. By the time, by the time they're listening, yes. One, the one locked in player per team

will have been announced by the time you're listening to this. That's like all well and good. Who cares about that, really? Right? We know who they're going to be. There's certain things about All Star Weekend that we can just take as fact.

Sidney Crosby, for example, we'll probably find some way to get out of it. That's what he does. Et cetera, et cetera. But the big change this year is added power for the fans. They're giving, they're turning over the fan vote

for an even larger chunk of, of, of, of, of the roster spots. Haley, how many is it? It's,

so it's three per team. Yeah. So the, the, the rosters that you know, as you're listening, is one player per team, making up the initial eight-man rosters

for each division. And then the remaining three players, per division, two skaters, one goalie, will be selected as part of a fan vote, which would have began on Thursday night. So a few hours after we're recording this and we'll run until January 17th. So three players per team are going to be voted by the fans. Instead of just the last men. I mean, it's kind of, it's not really last men. It's a bit more than just that now. Well, it's like you look at, I mean, I know we're years and years and years

pass it now, but it's like, what if we made the whole roster out of John Scott's? That's basically it, right? Where you're just leaning all the way into meme voting. I don't think it'll be all meme voting. I think there's obviously going to be players because it's like one per team. Think of like, obviously there's going to be fans who vote in guys like dry siddle. Right. Assuming that McDavid is the Edmonds and All-Star.

You're going to seriously have to vote in. But I think it's going to be a fun. Ifgeny Malkin or Or Timinan or whoever. There's going to be great, great players left there. I think there's going to be a space for some fun. And that's what this should be. Like, I'm sorry, but these guys don't go hard. We talked to Poulin about this.

Mary Philly Poulin when she came on. Like everyone was shocked when they're like back checking and stuff. And they're just like, why are you guys playing so hard? It's like, because we have to. I think it's fun to get an injection of something a little bit different. Then, you know, what, what, even, I don't even know what the scores were last year. I didn't watch the three on three. Honestly, I don't really care about the All-Star game.

I like the skills competition days. But I think, you know, get us a, get us a Ryan Reeves in there. Yeah, I'll watch. The only reason All-Star Games exist is for the fans. That's it. Sure. Every decision, like, and you want to, you don't want to make a total chaos. you do want to reward the best players in the sport, you know, in some capacity.

But beyond the top line stuff, every single decision needs to be made with like, this goes, this goes in every sport, by the way. This is, you're talking about baseball hoops, whatever. The question should be, will an 11-year-old think this is fun? Sure. That's who all-star games are for. So, yeah, three fan votes per roster, five, like, I don't go for it. But the fun thing is, is trying to guess now, you know, that, and I'm sure the campaigns

have already begun in earnest, especially if you're listening to this on, you know, Friday or Saturday or whatever else, we're going to have some funny ones. It's going to happen. Yeah. Ryan Reeves is a really great pick. Absolutely. Right? Because he plays for the wild, huge, huge fan base.

He's got a national profile generally from playing in New York, from playing in Vegas. A well-like dude, a charismatic dude. One of the best, you know, acknowledged, like, is one of the best teammates in the league. On and on, on. People are drawn to this guy. People love that guy. And he's a ham. He'll welcome it, right?

He's like, he's on Twitter. He'll kill the media day. He's active and all that stuff. Yeah. In people of Minnesota, as we see it every single day on the site, the Russo Army, the Joe Smith Army now as well. Russo Army Joe Smith Battalion. These people love voting for stuff like that.

They're going to put Reeves in the All-Star game. That's going to happen. And I don't have a problem with it. No. Do we have other choices, though? That's the question. Who are the other... You brought this up.

Yeah. And it's perfect. The Sends Sickos, they are going to do whatever they can to get our Tim Zubb in the All-Star game. They might not have to do it because he might just be their representative as chosen by... Sean, it's going to be Brady Kachuk or Tim Stitzla or Drake Batherson. Disrespectful to Zub. It's...

Disrespecting Zabat. But like this is the Sends, though. They've got a bunch of really, they've got Alex De Brinket, Claude Jureau. Who are the Sends going to rally around? It's Zub. 100%.

It's Zub! Clod Drew, thanks so much. Move aside. We got to get Zubb to the All-Star game. I just know it. Zubb, period. Zub. Moving on.

Anyone else? Arbor Shekai. I think it's happening. Really? I think Havs fans are going to put in yeah like not like Cole Coughfield and Nick Suzuki one of those guys who's one of those guys

right but not both of them are going to make it you think they're going to go for you know what that's an interesting thought I think I think you probably are thinking right there where but the duo with together the fan base needs the fan base needs to coalesce around around one person

and it's easy to imagine people you know Habs fans maybe splitting between say Coffield and because who almost deserves being on merit. And Shackai, who's good of a, you know, he's a good young player, but he's also become kind of a, he's also an early folk hero, basically.

But yeah, I think you made a point. I think that's a good point, is that. I think it should be Cole Coughfield who makes it. If you're like the NHL hockey operations people who are picking the All-Star game, do you go for Coffield or Suzuki? That's a good question. Obviously, well, no. shortly.

It's almost... We should have done the athletic hockey show after dark just to find out who's in the All-Star game. People hate that. I don't think we did. We're never doing it again.

So who are the fan bases to watch, though? Gotta watch the Sends. Gotta watch the Wild. Who else is capable of like forcing on... I mean, obviously the Leafs fans are going to have a lot of sway. Why? Because there's so many of them.

I don't think that's true. If William Nealander is the selection, you don't think that Austin Matthews is going to get voted in? There aren't that many Leaves fans. I don't know if they really have the, I don't know if they have this way. No, not really. All right. I think the thing that's more interesting to me about the All-Star game is the Skills Competition. And I hope that they kind of do what we saw last year, that just because you don't make the All-Star game,

doesn't mean you can't be in one of the skills competitions. Because Zegris wasn't in the All-Star game last year was Troy Terry, but Zegris did the breakaway competition, which he should have won. Yeah, but that was just sort of, that was like a Trevor Zegris, like specific modification. Sure, but I think that they should open that up more this year

to allow more people to just do the skills. I think they should open it up, all the way every year to players who... That's what I'm saying. Yeah, not just that old. I mean, they're not, though. Like, it'll be... But I'm saying they should.

Someone will miss out and they'll bend the rules for one specific person. Yeah, and I'm seeing it, that's not, it should... It shouldn't, it shouldn't stop there. I know, I'm saying they... I know, I'm saying they should allow anyone to do the skills. Like, I want to see Michael Stone in the hardest shot.

It really is. He's not going to make the All-Star game, but I think he should. It really is funny watching people realize for the first time that he's got just the canon from the point. Yeah, put him in the All-Star Skills Competition. It is a disgrace that we made it through the entire Carl Hagelin era without him getting to compete in fastest skater. It's bullshit. It's unfair.

I mean, the NBA got that right. Absolutely. They've got guys who throw whatever the hell dunks you want to see in the dunk contest. who aren't even close to being on an all-star team because that's fun. Like you should be having skills-specific guys in these competitions. Yeah, I mean, the dunk contest for years and years and years

has been populated by guys who couldn't, like you said, couldn't sniff, couldn't sniff it themselves for the most part. I mean, Donovan Mitchell won in 2018, sure. But like, Zach Levine was not an all-star caliber player when he was, when he went back-to-back to back on contest, right? Derek Jones Jr. won for the heat in 2020. Like, these are relevant players, but they're a tier

or two or three below being like legit all-stars. But they're the ones that are providing like the best, the best moments from the weekend. So yeah, absolutely. Figure out a way to balance it between, you know, the guys who have some superlative skill and then the all-stars who want to get involved too. But open it up.

Let's go. I'm with you. And I think it's going to be really funny to see if Zubb makes the All-Star game. I think you can almost write that in pen at this point. You think so? I think that's going to happen, yeah. Because they, because he's, he's already, he's a, he's a good player. Yeah.

He's been, you know, a mean, he's a cult hero. Yeah, a mean cult hero in the sense fan base for, for years now. in the sickos or as online as anybody. Like they have terminal brain rot from being at the computer. Sean. For too long. It's true. So do I.

I made a career out of it. Whatever. Don't knock it. It's true. They're going to put that, they're going to put that dude in the All-Star game. It's happening. I love sense fans.

Every. The best. I, even though they got really mad at you about the Stisla thing. It is what it is, man. People, like, I've been doing this for long enough where it takes a lot to to ruffle my feathers.

There's a sense fan I want to give a shout out to. Who's that? It's Matt. Ryan Reynolds? No, it's Ryan Reynolds. No, it's Matt Bosty. He found a, I guess I was on a podcast or radio or something talking about how sense fans are a bunch of sickos. And it's his Twitter bio.

his Twitter bio is sense fans they're fun they're weird they're definitely a bunch of sickos like Matt bossy always asking if you want to go eat rotisserie chicken that was one of my first experiences when I started covering Ottawa I just like get this like someone's like tweeting at me like do you want to go eat rotissory chicken and I was like what the hell is happening I love Ottawa shoot your shot brother I don't even think I don't even think he was it's just his thing Okay. Anyways, shout out to Sons fans. Zub's going to the All-Star game.

You can mark it. All-Star Zub. All-Star Zub. Yes, yes. Ha-ha-ha-ha. Anyways, that's all the time we have today. Do we have anything to promo? I don't believe so.

We are on the bonus app this week. The Friday's. The Friday crew is doing the Apple Podcast Plus subscribers only super secret. episode this week. What are we going to talk about? I don't know yet. None of your business. None of your business if you don't subscribe.

And funny enough, if you aren't an athletic subscriber, you can join us at theathletic.com slash hockey show to get an annual subscription for $2 a month for 12 months. You can now also subscribe to the athletic hockey show's YouTube channel. You can subscribe to that at YouTube.com slash at sign at the athletic hockey show.

Thanks, everyone. We will see you. next week. Bye Sean. Goodbye.