The Athletic Hockey Show - Midseason Draft Rankings, 2024 Prospect Game and Boston College dominates Boston University

Episode Date: January 31, 2024

On this special Wednesday edition of the prospect series, Max Bultman, Corey Pronman and Scott Wheeler dive into Wheeler's mid season draft rankings, they recap the 2024 Top Prospects game and Max and Corey look back on the BU-BC games from this past week, which were loaded with prospects, including presumptive first round pick Macklin Celebrini. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the Athletic Hockey Show Prospect Series. Hey, everybody, Max Boltman here alongside Corey Prondman and Scott Wheeler for another episode of the Athletic Hockey Show's Prospect Series. Got a fun show on tap today. We're going to recap the CHL Top Prospects game. We're going to get into some stuff from the BCBU matchup. But we're going to start, Scott, with your newest draft rankings, your mid-season draft rankings, I guess we're going to call them here. usually on the show we like to you and i and chris when he's on gang up on cori's rankings and grill and today we're going to put you in the hot seat a little bit um but just as kind of of a broad overview here i want to just start with a you know as you're putting this together

what's your feel on the strength of this draft class right now because you know you've got tiers that really go seems like till maybe 11 or 12 pretty uh pretty high thought of players here yeah yeah i think that's ultimately sort of more or less where i'm that on this group is that there's a group of 11, 12, if you include my number 12, and I sort of hinted at that in the list that the sort of top three tiers ended at 11, but that number 12, which is Carter Yakumchuk, is sort of right, was right, right, right there for me. So it's really a dozen players that I like, a dozen players that I'm, that I'm really confident in. After that, it did start to get a little bit trickier. This group doesn't run as deep as last year. Last year,

when I sat down to do my list. I knew there were 20 names right away. They were going to sit somewhere near the top of it. I think most scouts in talking to the way that the sort of teams talked about their list last year, it was sort of a deeper conversation into the first round than is typical. This year, I don't have that feeling, at least not yet, about that group. There are a couple of other players that have sort of started to solidify themselves. Like I knew that Liam Green Tree was going to be in that sort of next echelon in the early teens there.

but deciding on sort of 13, 14, 15 right through to the early 20s, those were players that sort of side by side one another I wasn't bullish on. I wasn't certain about the sort of ranking in a way that I'd like to be at this point in the season. So some of that's just going to come down to the home stretch. Obviously, the home stretch is longer in some cases than it is for others. They're almost in some of the European seasons in sort of across the pond. They're almost done like playoffs or around the corner.

right? So there's not actually a lot of time to get a sort of stronger grasp on those guys. Obviously, we've got U18 worlds in Finland around the corner and all of that. Five Nations is coming up in Plymouth. But it's sort of a little later in the process for me to be unsure about as many players, or at least not excited about as many players as I'd like to be. And I think that speaks to this draft class, maybe the role of pandemic played in this draft class. But there is a group at the top, especially on D, that I really like. This is right going back to probably 2012 when we saw Hampus Lindholm and Morgan Riley and that excellent group on D

in a draft that was obviously in hindsight with Neil Yakubov and Alex Galcena, pretty weak at forward. This draft feels like that. Obviously, Celebrini's a much different level than Neil Yakupov was. But, yeah, it's going to be a draft that's remembered for its D. And I think that's reflective in the six of 12 players in that group of 12 that we talked about, our defenseman. And that's not normally the case in almost any draft. And certainly in last year's draft, there were only two, three players that were really in that range for most teams

rather than half a dozen. And five in your top eight, the only thing I think that might surprise people is some of the sequencing here, because there's a name in Sam Dickinson, who I think we've gotten used to talking about in the top five. You don't have him far beyond that, obviously, I think number eight. But a couple of guys ahead of him who may surprise a couple people, Zane Perrick, Zeev Bouillon and we've talked a lot about Zeev obviously with the World Juniors on the show but what went into the ordering there I know we're talking fine margins

within a tier but how did you settle on this order of Perrick Boullum and then Dickinson Yeah that was the trickiest one And it was one that I moved around Really right through the CHL top prospects game I was sitting a couple of seats down from Corey looking at my list and sort of pulling my hair out kind of thing

Sam was better than Zane there as well So there's it was tough, very different players. In Zane, you've got a truly talented dynamic offensive defenseman who's doing very special things offensively on a team that allows him to do very special things offensively. I think there's always a conversation with Saginaw kids in the way that Chris Lazary and Dave Drinkle run that team about the way that they play. We saw the same conversations play out with Cole Perfetti. We saw the same conversations play out with Pavel Minta Yukov. Certainly in Mintiukov's case, we're now seeing some pretty positive results at both ends.

in terms of him not just being all offense. He's had some nice progression that way, and has actually handled himself quite well this season in the NHL. In PerX case, I think we're going to see a special enough talent offensively, a special enough power play one quarterback, a special enough sort of shooter and shot creator, a very fluid and mobile creative player at the offensive zone, blue line, all of those qualities are so high end that even if he's not the most

competitive kid, even if he doesn't win a ton of battles, if he can just be good enough as a stick on puck defender and I actually think he's a pretty all right defender with his stick, if he can be good enough that way, he's probably going to have enough quality above and beyond offensively that he's such a difference maker in that regard that it's tough to deny. Obviously, we had similar conversations about players like Quinn Hughes. Quinn was in his draft year, wasn't viewed as sort of a player who was going to project to be as as strong a defender as he has become. Ultimately, Quinn's a much better skater than Porek is. And that has made him a capable defender at the NHL level. So we'll see whether

Perak can get there, maybe doing it a little bit differently than that. But ultimately, I'm just really, really a firm believer that this is one of the most talented young junior level defensemen that I've scouted, including, I mean, it wasn't that long ago. We were watching Brandt Clark scored a hundred point pace in the OHL either, including last season. when he returned and was lights out offensively. And I think even above and beyond a Brandt Clark, you've got a player like Perek that's pretty singular quality. Now, in saying that, Sam is,

Sam's a legit two-way stud who I think everybody believes is going to be a top four very, very high-end NHL defensemen. And if you drafted Sam Dickinson tomorrow in front of Zane Perak, I would not, I wouldn't blink. So it's really close for me. Yeah, I mean, but Porettes, But correct statistical output, in terms of the OHL draft eligible defensemen, you have to go back to Ryan Ellis to find something that's close to this.

And Ryan Ellis went around 11. I think that's right around the range where this guy is probably going to go in the draft. Different players, Ellis is a little bit more competitive. This guy's a little bit bigger, probably even a little bit more dynamic with the puck than Ellis was at the same age, but both exceptional offensive players and Ellis was a dominant junior player and was a great. good NHL played up until injuries caught, basically took him out of commission. It turns of what Perrette projects as,

I think he's still going to go very high in the draft because of the special traits that Scott described. And you're basically, when I talk to NHL people, they're hoping that if you pick this guy, you're hoping you hit the next Quinn Hughes. And even if it's not the next Quinn Hughes, maybe even like the next Evan Bouchard,

who's an excellent NHL defenseman. But the downside is, you know, you could see some rhymes, quite frankly, between the way Perek looks and the way, say, Adam Bokefist looked at the same age. And, you know, the way even maybe a Tye Smith looked at the same age, I think his offense is of a higher degree than the two of them at the same age. But I think those are the risk calculus in picking Percet that teams are going to have to weigh. Well, to put that in context, too, I was looking at the Saginaw. You know, obviously Michael Mese is a year younger here.

But we're talking about a guy in Michael Mesa who has put himself in the conversation to be certainly a top five pick, potentially a year from now. Perak is dwarfing the production there. He's leading the team, I think, 12 over Mesa at this point. So the production is not just like good point per game what we're used to from a CHL defenseman in their draft year. It's at another level. How about with Boyham, Scott? I mean, obviously we all just saw him at the World Juniors and the production that he's able to put up at Denver. Do you see similar profile in terms of that kind of, you're just hoping the defense is good enough,

or do you see something different there? It's similar in some ways, but different in some really pronounced ones, I would say. Zeeve creates almost all of his offense through sort of a shake and bait game at the top of the offensive zone blue line. He likes to beat that first layer, a ton of shoulder fakes, hesitations. That's his game. That's his bread and butter offensively. I think in in per rec, it's a more direct game offensively in terms of attacking for a shot. And then a more creative game as a passer.

There isn't the same sort of manipulation across the line. And then defensively, I think most would argue that Zeeb's probably a little bit further along. He plays a little bit harder. Again, not his bread and butter. He's not blowing guys up. He's not closing out on a ton of plays super early and sort of finishing checks in the neutral zone. That's not his game. He's not muscling guys on boxouts in front of the net.

But he's, I would say, a more well-rounded defender at this stage at this stage than Zane is and has obviously done it at a college level that plays at a sort of higher level than the OHL does. So different players, but similar in terms of offensively inclined defense isn't probably going to be the strength, although he was a very good defender in the end in his second year at the program. And they counted upon him at U18 Worlds last year and all that. And he's obviously become a serviceable, if not an above average defender in terms of the defensive side at Denver as well. I mean, you just look at what he is asked to do in Denver. They're one of the very best teams in the country.

This guy plays a ton of minutes, including in defensive situations. I get defense isn't like as Scott that is not what he's going to be known for. It's not why you're drafting him in the top 15. But I think his defense will be fine for an NHL player. All right. So we talked about the defense class here. And one of the things that struck me right away about your list, Scott, and I think this is something Corey will want to jump in on too.

It is that cluster of D in the top A. We talk about five in the top A, but disrupting it right in the middle, you've got the two kind of pure scoring wingerers there in Cole Eisenman and Ivan Demadoff. And Iseman, we've talked on the show about maybe a trend down from where we were talking about earlier in the season, maybe a little bit questions on how many dimensions he really has. You still have him up there at number three. What do you see in?

And what was the process like to land with Iserman and Demadov there still in that tier two ahead of some of these defense, but we just talked about? I think in Iserman's case, it's just a belief that the goal scoring is going to be such a weapon, such an asset for him that even if the B game never really truly comes like, people hope it will be it will that you're still going to have a dynamic top of the line up power play one threat maybe even the very focal point of the power play in terms of get him the puck kind of thing uh and then at even strength if he can continue to make plays and get looks and play with a line mate who can facilitate for him you're going to have a dynamic goal score in the NHL there's premium on goal scoring in today's NHL even as goal pending and safe percentages and all that seemed to drop every year.

And I think ultimately, even if he's not the most competitive kid, and I do think there are, I have seen games where he's finishing his checks and he's getting after it on the four check. But certainly if, even if that B game isn't there in terms of play selection, decision making, cheating a little bit too much, the body language that people have concerns about, there's a, there's a bit of a list with Cole. I think the other stuff is so high end that you're going to be passing. If you don't sort of take him in the top five, top six, top seven range.

Like if he's a kid who suddenly wingeres around 10, I think we could be having a conversation a few years from now of people having overthought it a little bit when he's scoring a ton of goals in the NHL. What would be your NHL player comparable for both players? Demdav's an interesting one. And we haven't actually talked about him a lot on this show, but the individual skill level is obviously important.

incredibly high. He's on a heater of all heaters in the MHL right now. He toys with defensemen in terms of one-on-one stick play at that level. I think he's got a more well-rounded game than we saw in a player like Matt Bay-Michikov last year. I'm not sure whether there's a natural comparison for either of them, especially Eisman. There just aren't many player types like Eisman in terms of fit or natural fit. I mean, you go through the list of dynamic young goal scores, you end up with a pretty short list. And I don't like the Cole Coffield comp or any of that. Demadov, I think there's probably a natural comp for him somewhere in there.

A player like Kuznetsov in his prime kind of comes to mind, although Kuznetsov always had issues off the puck and defensively. And I know in talking to scouts and what I've seen from Demadov, he actually likes to work off the puck and has pretty well-rounded game. So I'm not sure whether Kuznetsov is maybe a natural fit, but he's sort of reminds me of that Kyle Connor, Nick Ellers, Kuznetsov, extremely talented one-on-one player, tons of skill level on the puck. Does he skate like any of those three guys?

I think his skating is actually skating is stronger than I thought it was at the start of the year. I actually had concerns about his skating at the start of the year, but in watching him, he actually, I think, is a faster kid than I realized. But no, he doesn't skate, certainly doesn't skate like Ellers. I don't think Kuznetsov's a fabulous skater or anything. But he's a lot bigger than. Yeah, Connors probably is a lot bigger.

He doesn't skate like Ellers, for sure. Yeah, I think, you know, I think his game is pure skill. What would you think of Owen Tippett for the comp for Iserman? I'm not sure Iserman has the skating that Owen Tippett has. Tippett always had the shot and the powerful sort of wrist or released and all that, but it's the skating that I think has made him the player that he is today. I do think there are some natural comparisons there in terms of the rest. I think Eisenman's had in terms of statistical profile as a clear cut above at this stage

in his career relative to where Owen Tippett was. Owen Tippett was a very good OHL score, but he wasn't like scoring 60, 70 goals in his draft year in the OHL. In terms of, yeah, I think there's some similarities there. There were questions about Tippett, which is surprising with the way that he played. he's getting on after it on the forecheck now for that Flyers team, how well-rounded he's become for John Tortorella. But I play beer league with his strength and conditioning coach.

And there was always, always questions about Owen's habits and sort of detail off the puck and competitiveness. And that's, that's come along. And I do think there is some of that in Cole. He just needs to show it more. Like, I do think he's actually a pretty competitive kid. When he does get into battles, he fights for his position and all of that.

he just needs to get involved more. And I think there was a lot of that with Tippett. So there's some of that there. I think ultimately, Cole Isman has a much higher ceiling than whatever Owen Tippett is or will become. And Owen Tippett's a very good player now. But I think Cole's got an opportunity to score 40 goals on a regular basis in the NHL. And I'm not sure Tippett's going to have that kind of a career.

It's kind of interesting last week, Corey made the comment. Like, has there ever been a scoring winger prospect in the draft that wasn't a little divisive that people didn't kind of have this reservation on. And what it actually made me think of was Patrick Lione and his draft year was kind of that, and not really that comparable to Izerman and, you know, size and profile all that. But like, he kind of had the dream start of what you would have wanted to see from a, you can, I don't know if you're going to call Lainey one dimensional, but I think you can make the case that, you know, scoring, scoring above all, certainly player, had the dream

start. And even after that, he gets traded for the big center. who was drafted right behind him and his team has to throw in another recent first round pick. It just kind of really, I think that was kind of a foundational way for the way I view wingers, but especially kind of like scoring wingers at the top of the draft. Probably like the most recent one that hasn't had that issue, would be like a Svetnikov more or less, right? And he's he's not what I would think of as a pure goal score.

I think when we think of pure goal scores, we think of guys who basically just shoot whenever there's an opportunity more or less that are very good at it. but guys like Svetkov and frankly guys like TIPPIT too have other dimensions in their game. But even with Svechnikov, and I know, Corey, you love him. Like, you'd have to think long and hard now about taking Svetnikov over Quinn Hughes and even maybe like a Noah Dobson, would you not? Big time. Very much. Yeah.

Big time. I will say, though, I always come back to same age profile. What did they look like they were going to be? And if you flip the script, what would Cole Eisenman have done playing for that Barry Colts team that Andre Svetchenkov played for? And I think the answer is probably 20 or 30 more points and 10 more goals, right? Like I think we're talking even compared, even next to Svetnikov, who was a top three pick himself, I still think there's a level in terms of the offense that Cole Eisenman is capable of getting to that is a very rare level in terms of a, goal scorer. And I'm not sure even as great as Andre's fetch to cop was that we were having similar conversations. So I think ultimately the conversation with with Isman is if you believe he can get to that

level and be a special goal score, then yeah, he's a top five pick. And ultimately, if you don't think his game will allow him to get there because he doesn't have that B game, then he's not a top five pick. And that that's going to be a question that winger is for him and that he's going to have to continue to answer over the next couple of years as he goes off to B you and right on through. All right. So those were those were the main things that stood out to me.

Corey, anything that hit you as you were scrolling through Scott's list? Just one or two other things I was thinking of. Henry Mews at 19, Scott. I was kind of a similar spot coming into the year. Six months ago, I had him right there. Not so sure on that one right now from what I've seen in a player this year.

Curious, you know, I'm not sure where you had him coming. into the year. But I'm curious what makes you still have him in the top 20 range, a range that kind of indicate you think he's going to have a full-time NHL career. Yeah, Henry's a tricky one. I think he's a tricky one for just about anyone you ask. You ask scouts about him and the words chaos and words that you don't like to hear about

players start to come up. I sort of had to mention that in my ranking that this is a kid who started in the sort of 14-15 range on my list. at the start of the year. He's now at 19. I believe I even mentioned in the ranking that there's a chance that he'll finish lower than this if he doesn't sort of put pieces together more consistently. Really tough start to his year. I think that's what caught most people off guard was. Here's this player who had been a captain for hockey Canada, had played well at Halinka, and at the U-17 World Hockey Challenge, had a really strong rookie season in the OHL last year.

And then to start this year, got exposed a few times in important games early on in the season. season made some, the reeds started to become a question. It kind of reminds me a little bit of Cam Allen a year ago and sort of the fall from graces that Cam had in Guelph, just with the decision making and the reads in particular. It's been a question as the year has gone on. I do think he's been much, much better in the last couple of months. It wasn't great, unfortunately, at the top prospects game.

I actually thought he was good in the third period, but first and second period, a couple of defensive zone shifts where he just looked like he didn't know where he needed to be. in his own zone kind of thing, which has been, that is the issue with his game. So Henry's a tricky one. Good skater, perform well in the testing in terms of the skating piece at the CHL top prospects game,

plays a very aggressive style, which inherently comes with some issues. We saw similar style, very different players, but similar style from a player like Thomas Harley when he was in the OHL in Mississauga, just a lot of give and take, mistakes, carrying pucks into tough spots, trying to do a little bit too much,

knew that he had skill and trying to make plays all the time. I think that's where Henry's at. He's got talent. I think he's actually a pretty competitive kid. He's active. He wants to be involved. He wants to make plays and jump off the line and close gaps. I think it's just the decision-making piece.

Is it ever going to be there? Is he going to make too many mistakes in a game to warrant being a sort of mid-to-late first-round pick? Or is he the kind of guy that you just sit on until day two and you take in the second round and you figure out from there kind of thing? I think he may end up there for me. He may end up at the back of the first round or sort of in the 30s or 40s for me when it's all said and done. But the statistical profile is still strong. There are certainly some tools there. He's been good for hockey Canada in sort of bigger stages.

And I like him in the second half here. If he continues to play like he has in the last couple of months, I like him to have a strong push here with Ottawa in the second half and sort of restamp himself, not as a front half of the first round, but sort of once you get into those sort of into that late teens, 20s range, I think he's got, he's got an opportunity to sort of strengthen that case still.

So what I like about him is the skill and the offensive sense. And like you said, like when I saw it at the Hohenka this summer, really impressive there, looked like a top prospect, a guy they leaned on and played more than, say, a Sam Dickens,

or Zane Perrick when the games got tight. But watching him in Ottawa this year, this is a guy who's been quite poor at times defensively. I think there's even been a game or two where they've had to play them up forward for those issues. And then, you know, he's not a, he's a fine athlete. It's like a 6-0 frames, good, not great skating, and just really good playmaking and an offense and could shoot it.

So I just wonder what this guy's role is in the NHO. He clearly is offensively tilted. And then the question becomes, is it high end enough offense? Zane Perrick is going to have a role in the NHL because the offense is so high end. Is he a one? Is he a two? Is he a three? Is he a sheltered five?

Like, you know, we'll find out in five years, but he's going to play in the NHL. This guy, I'm like, is the offense special enough given that he hasn't shown he can defend very well? So that's why I have my reservations on Henry. And then the other question I had for you was the top group of defensemen, why is, is why is there a distinction between Lev Shunov and Parak, Boyam, Dickinson, Selyev, Yakensh, like what, he's all the way up at two above Eisenman and Demadov. Why, what's the distinction there between him and the rest? I think the big thing with Lev Shunov for me is that the potential is just so high end with his

frame, with how strong he is, with how physically mature he is, with how ambitious he is offensively, how free-flowing he is offensively, and then also how hard he can defend, with his physicality and his ability to get right up on, on sort of attacking forwards and be disruptive and close out plays early and then get going with his skating. There aren't, I think he plays a little too, we've talked about it.

I think he plays a little, maybe a lot too loose at times. Like he's, the brain piece for Lev Shunov is going to have to get figured out and are going to be coaches that have to live with the give and take of just, he loves to just run around out there and make things happen, both offensively and defensively, sometimes at the expensive positioning.

The beauty with Lev Shunab is he's an excellent, excellent sort of length of the ice skater. So even when he's behind the offensive zone, goal line or jumping back door to finish a play, he's able to track back and recover. And then just the physical frame. It absolutely blew me away when I went to East Lansing earlier this year. Like I've never seen a defender at this age,

maybe outside of Aaron Ekblad, who was at that stage in terms of physical development, just that physically strong. So that is already there. There's not a lot of areas of his game where other than the sort of how Lucy plays, and I think that's just immaturity mostly and how boyish he is.

But outside of that, there's not a lot there that needs to come. Like he just has all of the physical tools of a top pairing defenseman. Certainly Sam Dickinson also has all of the two, as well, but I just think there's, there's less ambition, there's less creativity, there's less talent in Sam's game than there is in Web Shoot-Ov. So that's sort of where the distinction lies for me, ultimately, between those two players. I feel like a lot of those same things you just talked about were elements of Minchikov's game,

people criticized, too, in terms of the, he would take these risks at the defensive blue line stuff enough to try to try to hit somebody, or he would go coast to coast, and it was, Kenny, Kenny Rained it in, and the answer seems to be yes. You made the point in the article, Scott, about kind of the track being similar to Owen Powers, though. His production is actually way ahead of the pace that Owen Power was out at the same year and on a more talented Michigan team at that time. Both for them and for Boyham, I mean, they're way ahead of like Rowinsky, Power, Hughes. Like the seasons those two are having in college are really special. Yeah, it's really fun to watch.

All right. I actually got one more I want to ask Scott about, but it's going to dovetail with the CHL topic. So I'm going to hold it for that. And we are going to take a quick break. All right, we are back. And Scott, the one other name on your list that jumped out to me is a guy that you guys just saw, obviously, at the CHL Top Prospects game, who seems like he's really coming on the longer this year goes. And that's Tij Ginla, really compelling.

Obviously, everyone's going to want to start with the name and all that. But to me, what I see is a guy who's really young for his draft class, who is surging, producing. What have you seen the whole year out of a Ginla? And what did you see at the top prospects game? It's awesome. It's a great story. He played, he was often a healthy scratch on a very deep Seattle team last year. When he was in that lineup, he played almost exclusively on its fourth line. That's a tough place to be for a top 10 WHL pick as a 16 year old and a rare one that was kind of unique to that Seattle team and that Seattle team being one of the deepest teams we've seen in a long, long time at forward in junior hockey. Then he gets traded. He gets to play with players like Andrew Kristol and sort of really gets to play at the very top of the line. Power Play 1, offensive zone draws, scoring role, his shot starts to pop. He's got sort of a, I actually talked to him a little bit about it at the top prospects game, but he's got kind of a throwback snapshot.

It's not the curl and drag that we see so many players try to use now. He just leans into it and sort of really sort of lunges into the puck, kind of a lot like his dad and Joe Sackick and those sort of classic 1990s, early 2000 snapshots that we used to see when composite sticks got introduced. So really interesting player, great skater, attacks on angles, changes of directions, he's got hands. I think he's a little individualistic at times. Like he doesn't use his linemate super, super well, but just a really fun player with the puck on his stick, who as soon as he touches it in the offensive zone, he can take you on an angle and turn you and

create a good look to the slot and just a very, very dangerous, threatening player in the offensive zone. So really interesting one where now he's... I mean, I had him 21, but he's probably going to go in that 10 to 20 range in the teens there somewhere and may finish there on my list. I know Corey likes him higher than where I had him at 21. So it's a nice story because coming into this year, people just hadn't seen enough of him play. Like he just didn't play enough last year to get a real feel on him. And now he looks like a legit sort of front half of the first round or middle of the first round prospect. The guys who I know in the league who are very bullish on a Genwa would come to me and ask,

like, what's the big distinction there between him and Cole Iserman? And I'm sure most would say that Isamon shot is better, but this guy shoots it really well. He's really, really skilled like Iserman is. He's scoring a lot like Isamon is. They're both good skaters. They're both not a great playmakers. And I think it's an interesting argument. I would prefer Eisenman still, but I understand the argument.

And I think there's probably like less pure holes in a Gimla's game as well from a pro projection. But he's a really exciting player. I think he's got high in skill, you know, really talented score, makes things happen whenever he has the puck at even strength. I think if the draft happened today, he would go in the top 15. And, you know, I say that with a caveat that this is a week forward group at the top of the draft. So if somebody is looking to add scoring and skill to the organization, you know, I think in the first half of the first round, his name's going to come up. In this game, he was playing on a line with Berkeley Caton, who is another prospect who we think will go in the top 15, maybe top 10 of this draft.

And I know, Corey, that was a line that you left this game that really made an impression on you. I thought it was the only line in the game that actually got scoring chances of even strength consistently. It was a really dull top prospects game, quite frankly. I think there's a lot of creativity or skill out there. And in that line, I don't, I could be wrong. I don't think they actually even got a goal in the game. But they looked like the only line where you thought they could get a goal. And they needed to score at the end.

And you knew those two were the ones who were probably going to do. it. Terrick Parishchev was on that line too, but I thought it was Kattan and Ginnla, particularly Gindler, who were creating a lot of the puck possession and the chances for that line. Actually, didn't think Berkeley Cadden had his best game. I love Berkeley Cadet, and I thought that was his B game, not his A game, but even his B game made him one of the more noticeable forwards out there, I thought. But in general, this is a draft class that's going to be known for its defensemen. You know, we're talking about a draft class where we can see 10, 12, maybe even close to 15

defensemen taken in the first round. And the byproduct of that is this is not a great four group. I think it was team red, even though they won the game, when their forwards were out there and they had to make something happen with the puck. It was a lot of, you know, hardworking hockey to put it politely. and I didn't think there was a lot of high-end skill on the ice in this game. Not, though, a lot of goals in terms of the actual production. We don't end up with a very highlight-filled game at 2 to 1 here.

What does that say, if anything, about the crop of players? Is this about the goalies, the forwards? Where do you land on that, Corey? Well, I think there's a lot of really good defensemen in this draft. I mean, Sam Dickinson, Carrie Yack and Chuck are all, you know, or two guys, for example, they're going to go very high. Same thing with Parrick. Several other really good defense prospects in this game.

And I thought the goalies all played very well, whether it was the 06s and even the reentry, the O'HL, Lucas Metecha from Tri-City was arguably the best of the four of them. I don't know how good of pro prospects they are, you know, Carter George and Lenders in the OHL, for example, they're not the biggest guys. But they had, they're having very good years. and I said, all the goals were quite good in the game,

the defensemen were good, the forwards left so. I did like, I should say, I did like a couple of the forwards in terms of, I thought William Green Tree and Jet Lucchenko had good games. Beckett Seneca had some nice looks, but in each case, Beckett Seneca, Jet Luchamp, I mean, William Green Tree is going to be a very high pick on draft day, but in Seneca and Green Trees, or Seneca and Luchenko's case,

you're talking about sort of late first, early second rounder type. So if those guys are the guys who are making the skill plays in a game, it just sort of speaks to the larger point Corey made about the very top of this draft. And then obviously the absence of Caden Lindstrom, who's dealing with a bit of a hand injury. Friendly bet on a beer that Seneca goes ahead of Green Tree? Sure. Sure.

I just think this game differential there will make Seneca go ahead, even though Green Tree is scoring like twice as much as he is this season. Yeah, I think there's there's some real concerns about about Seneca's playoff the puck and sort of the one and done nature of his game as well. Oh, I have real concerns about him, but I just I just feel like, I feel that's going to be closer than what you said. I think they'll go with it a couple of picks of each other. Yeah, I guess.

We're talking about a Vegas draft guys. You might be able to pay this off, this bet off on the riser for all we know. very possible Scott I know you also felt like the goalies though had a hand in the game playing out the way it did yeah I mean all four of them were good it's pretty rare at this game to see all four of them play well we're only a year removed from I believe what was it a 6-5 finish

in last year's game something like that 6-4 so to see it play tight to see it play to 2-1 with an empty netter to see all four goalies play well and make I thought each of them made at least one or two big saves over the course of the game Wienders in particular made a couple of huge pad saves going left to right, sort of stretching out to make a big save. Yeah, I think it's pretty rare that all four goalies have a legit shot at getting drafted.

I'm not sure whether all four of them will get picked in the end, but I think there's a real opportunity that we see all four of those players drafted anywhere from round two, three, right through to sort of round six, seven kind of thing. So it speaks to the quality of those four, which is a nice, it's a night for, If you're the CHL, it's a nice story after years of pretty poor goaltening. It wasn't that long ago that we were talking about Reed Dick as sort of the guy in this game. And I think if you've watched Reed Dick play hockey, it's pretty chaotic in terms of him as a legit goalie prospect. So it's been a bit of a tough go.

And I think they were happy from a CHL perspective to see all four goalies play well. All right. Let's take another quick break. And we'll talk about BU and BC when we get back. All right, we are back. Scott Wheeler had to jump off. So it is just going to be Corey and I for this segment. We just wrapped up talking about the CHL Top Prospects game.

Corey, I can make a case that the real top prospects game, though, last week, was where you were in Boston. Actually, you were at both. But it was the second one, second and third ones you went to in Boston, where we had number one and number two, B, B, C for the first time in history. And Boston College ends up taking both of them. And not surprisingly now they're the number one ranked team. I mean, if you beat number one, you should become number one.

This might bring up some interesting topics on college football and Alabama and stuff like that. But in this context, it's perfectly reasonable. I don't think anyone was arguing against BC being the number one ranked college hockey team. And it was fantastic. So the first game was at Boston College and on the way into the game at Conte Forum. You saw, like, for the students, I think they were lined up halfway around the stadium. And this was two hours before the game. And like, second the gates opened, they all kind of like literally ran into the stadium to get the good seats.

And just jam-packed buildings both nights, you know, very good environment. The fans really into it. It was a fantastic environment. I went to go see Minnesota, Michigan play this time of year last season. And when you get that degree of talent together with real stakes, even if it's not a playoff game quite yet, it feels like a world junior game. It feels like a playoff game. And with the amount of talent on the ice that could make plays, it was really good hockey to watch.

And a show kind of stolen by one of the goaltenders and not the one that was in Net for Team USA's gold medal game, but maybe the more impressive goalie so far through this college season, Jacob Fowler. And there's a reason why leading into the world juniors, you know, Chris Peters and I kept saying over and Oregon, like he could be the goalie by the end of it. Trey Augustine, very good goalie prospect, and he played very well at the tournament and deserved to be in Ness for them at the end in that gold medal game where he did play well again. But Jacob Fowler is a heck of a goalie prospect. You know, I was talking to some scouts there while we were watching him, you know,

really frustrate Boston University, particularly in that first game. But I thought Boston University was really, frankly, the better team of the two teams between those two games from the net out. But he was the difference in that series. He, you know, just extremely

intelligent goalie who was just found a way to keep on squaring up pucks despite all the plays that guys like Macklin Sillabrini and Lane Hudson were making out there. And I was talking to a few scouts about about Fowler and maybe just because hockey east goalies,

but the name like Jeremy Swainman starts coming up. He's 6-1, 6-2. He's quick, but he's not super quick, but he's just such an elite-brain type of goalie and putting up huge numbers as a freshman. After he put up huge numbers in junior and leading Youngstown to a USHL title last spring. We'll see what the future holds for Fowler.

Not every 6-2 goal. except, you know, Montreal fans may remember, for example, all the hype coming out of college on Cady Primo, for example, who also killed it in college and then it didn't translate to the pros. So there's no guarantees until they're actually doing it. But foul trajectory right now looks positive. And you mentioned the way he's able to stifle B.U. I mean, Macklin Celebrini still comes out of this with a pair of points in two games,

so not going to hurt his pace too bad for the season. What did you see otherwise from Celebrity beyond the score sheet? I mean, I've seen celebrating now live three times in college and of course at the world juniors. And this is the kind of guy who you don't have to overthink it on this one. And it's really more like I got to say I saw him more or less. Like that's how I feel when I watch him play at the college level. He is so good. And the things he does out there for a guy who is 17.

and won't turn 18 for quite a few more months is really special. He's a great skater. He's so competitive. He's got a ton of skill, a ton of offensive hockey sense. I hear from some people sometimes who wonder whether this guy's going to be a really good score or not at the pro level. And I think,

like I said, I think that's overthinking it. Like this guy's going to score. He's going to drive play. He's going to be a great two-way player. This guy has everything. And against a elite college team, every time he was out there,

he was dangerous, I thought just a really, really special player and whichever team gets a chance to draft him is going to be quite fortunate. How about on the BC side of things? Obviously, we start here with the line that we've grown to know and love of Smith, Perrault, and Leonard, and they were really good again. Yeah, and, you know, in the first game, particularly, I thought they were consistently dangerous, you know, with the creativity that Smith and Perot have stands out constantly. Leonard's really skilled to, and he brought a lot of physicality. It was shifts. I scored a really big goal in the first game with a, you know,

he has shot, you know, his is really good. We think of his skill and his physicality at times with Leonard, but his shot's really good too. Scores a tough angle goal for them in the first game that, that builds some momentum for them to end up winning that first game. So he was really impressive. They weren't as good in the second game, even though they did get two goals.

I didn't think they had the puck that much, but that's kind of shows you, skill of a guy like Will Smith, for example, who was a factor on both of those goals, that you don't need to give them much opportunity and be used coach. A pandolfo said the same thing after the game as well. I do wonder watching them whether they will all need to go back to school for one more year, because I think there are some nights, even when I've watched them on video, some nights they're dominant, some nights they're not.

So I think it could benefit them to do, say, what their teammate Cutar Goce did, which is to come back for one more year. How about Carter Goethe, who, you know, obviously his name's been in headlines a lot, probably a little bit of unwanted attention after the trade. How is that, if at all, do you think affecting his play on the ice or what do you see in his play on the ice? It's hard to say whether it affected him or not, but I thought he was kind of quiet, honestly, in that weekend. He scored a really nice goal, and that's what he does. He scores goals.

My guess he's going to be a winger in the NHL. And when he has guys, like say, Leo Carlson again in the puck, he can be an outstanding goal-scoring winger. and there was one player who was coming down the right side, gets a bouncing puck and fires it between the five hole. And it's a really hard shot. That's the way Cutter Goce plays. He has a really good shot that he gets off quickly. But overall, I didn't think he made many plays.

I didn't think he had a lot of possession and even strength. And I think those are the concerns some scouts have on Goce. I mean, I think there was a kind of a buzz on this player after a Great World Juniors, where he was in the MVP discussion. and then after the trade that, you know, this is a one-sided deal. He's the top prospect, Drysdale isn't. And I think most evaluators would prefer Gochay to Drysdale, but Gochay has some holes in his game, too.

And I think there are some questions he'll need to answer at the pro level. How about on the defense pair for BU, where you got kind of an interesting pair that has now come together, probably the two biggest names that everyone wants to talk about, Lane Hudson and Tom Villander, the Canucks pick from last year. Well, Hudson did what he usually do. You know, he's dancing with the puck. trying to be creative, activating off the blue line, looking for scene passes,

uh, controlling the puck whenever, whenever he's on the ice. Uh, I didn't think the offensive play in this series was outstanding. And again, I don't think it was completely his fault. Jacob Fowler was just really good. Right. And they got plenty of chances. Like I said, I think, I think they had most of the possession, uh, in, in that series. Uh, but he wasn't, uh, the dominant offensive player that maybe you were expecting him

to be coming into the, into the series. Uh, but I thought. I came away from that weekend really impressed by Tom Willander. This is a guy who's role, you know, I saw a BU live beginning of the season, and now in the second half of the season, his role seems to have increased significantly playing big minutes in all situations. He made one miscue on one of the BC goals in the first game, but otherwise I thought his play all weekend was outstanding.

His skating stands out consistently. He brings a lot of physicality to his shifts. He was moving puck's well. you're getting up into attacks at times too. Like, I mean, he looks like he's going to be a tough for a fifth in the NHL. I don't know how high, high end the offense is going to be,

but he looks like he has traits to be a tough board. It's kind of interesting looking back because at the time of the draft, the real conversation about Willander was this interesting path he was choosing. He was leaving not just a good SHL team, but one that has a really strong track record recently developing prospects to go to the college route, not something you usually see.

Well, things at Rogel obviously took a turn here, that organization seen some change, and Willander thriving at BU, kind of interesting to look back even just six, seven months later. Extremely interesting, and I think Willander is a guy who had the unique makeup to do that. I don't know if it would be easy for every single European who doesn't speak English well, who isn't very acclimated to North American culture to do it. But this is a guy, you know, I think he, had prepared himself to do this for a while. He and I, you know, I think he transitioned into college pretty seamlessly and seems to be

excelling right now. Yeah. All right. That's going to do it for us. Good stuff today, Corey. Thank you all for listening to this episode of the Athletic Hockey Show prospect series. Thanks, of course, also to Scott Wheeler for joining us. You can follow us on YouTube at YouTube.com slash at the athletic hockey show.

And right now, get a one-year subscription to the athletic for $2 a month when you visit theathletic. We'll talk to you soon.