The Athletic Hockey Show - Midseason NHL awards, Corey Perry allowed to return to NHL and what Cutter Gauthier and Jamie Drysdale bring to the Ducks and Flyers

Episode Date: January 11, 2024

Hailey Salvian and Max Bultman discuss what newly acquired Cutter Gauthier brings to the up and coming Anaheim Ducks, and how young blueliner Jamie Drysdale will fit onto John Tortorella's team with the Philadelphia Flyers.Hailey and Max analyze the news that Corey Perry is free to sign with any NHL team, after his voluntary conversation with Gary Bettman, and with most teams having reached the midway point in the schedule, Hails and Maxy hand out their mid-season awards for Hart, Vezina, Norris, Selke, Calder and Adams and they take a few shots at their missing in action co-host Sean Gentille. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the Athletic Hockey Show. What's up, everybody? Welcome to the Athletic Hockey Show. It's Thursday. It's Haley Salvean, Max Boltman. No Sean Jintilly this week. He's too busy celebrating the Michigan football team's national championship. Oh, my gosh.

That's probably why he, like, didn't want to look at you, Max. Because he was too busy celebrating? No, because he's so upset. Like, he's pissed. I don't know if I've met somebody who like hates Michigan football more than that man. And I don't think I know why, but I think it's just like a Michigan football thing. Like people just hate you. Yeah.

So be it. That sucks. Congrats though. Thank you. What a day. Yeah. Obviously we've had some time off for the holidays, the Thursday show. And obviously, Sean's not here this week.

So it's not a full welcome back. It's not a full. We're back here on Thursdays. I was hectic with the start of the PWHL season. Sean hates Michigan and Max, but we're back for the most part this week. The big story to talk about Max, and it's a good thing that Sean's gone,

actually, because like you're better suited to talk about this. Sorry, Sean. It was the big prospect for prospect trade this week. Obviously, a lot of the conversation has been about the nature of the deal. Cutter Gautier is obviously who we're talking about, you know, not wanting to sign in Philadelphia. And if we believe what we've heard from the flyers, Gotea going so far as to not meet the team at World Juniors this year.

Flyers are saying they don't have an answer as to why this happened. Gotea is not talking about the why. There's been lots of drama, lots of speculation, but we've kind of been having that conversation since the deal happened. Cutter Gautier for Jamie Drysdale between the Anaheim Ducks and the Philadelphia Flyers, if you're listening to this and you're not aware of what deal we're talking about. So I kind of want to just dive in with you a little bit, Max, on the on ice implication. of this deal.

Yeah. Unless you want to talk about the drama. Well, I'm always down to talk drama. You know me, Haley. But I think with the on ice, like the most exciting thing about this

is we never really see trades of this magnitude prospect for prospect, not often, certainly. And part of that, these are both top six picks from the last four years. They're both guys who have

trended pretty well since their selections. And the reason that we don't see those is because they are, you know, two prospects who play, depending on how you feel about Gote, if he's a center of wing, premium positions. And obviously, if a team's going to spend this level of pick on you, they like you, you're trending well. Why would they ever trade you? And so the Gote's situation where he reportedly has refused to meet with the flyers, you could take that as kind of an implied

trade request. And I think that colors the deal significantly. But I think the ducks, my first reaction seeing this trade is wow what a stable of young forwards anaheim now has when you talk about mason mchtavish leo carlson they already had trevor zegris and now you bring in cutter gotier like these are not just high picks these are guys who can be high in your line up as centers potentially depending on what you think of of uh goate and zegris as centers and you don't even have to do that like you can now deploy them you know two of those guys i would say gottie and zegris as wings and have your kind of perfect one-two center punch that they already had in Carlson and McTavish, supported by like a high-end wingman on each of those top lines.

We'll see what they do with Zegras. I know there's some rumors out there about him now, and we'll see, but it's a great spot to be in for the Anaheim ducks. And I think there's a high-compete guys, and Goethe certainly answers the question of who's going to finish these pucks. He's got a deadly shot coming off of Great World Juniors. That's kind of my first reaction is, holy cow, Anaheim is going to have a stable of young forwards to be reckoned with.

I think when you consider the situation that the flyers were kind of put in with a really good young player who, as you said, kind of has this implied trade request, doesn't want to sign or play with the organization to end up with Jamie Drysdale in return. And for the ducks to get in on this action and bring in a guy like Cutter Gotiate, it seems like one of those deals. Obviously, we have to see what happens. We haven't seen any of these guys play with their respective teams at all. Um, but it's one of those things where it's like, you know, maybe this is a, a win-win for both sides,

especially if you're flyers and considering the situation they were in, um, seems pretty smart by the ducks as well. Um, but I want to talk a bit more about Jamie Driesdale to here, Max. Um, Anaheim loses Jamie Driesdale. Um, he didn't have, you know, he wasn't having a great season this year. Um, but I'm curious, like, what does adding him to the stable, for the Flyers do. Like what's your take on Drysdale heading to Philly? Yeah. So first of all, my reaction here, I think in the immediacy was that the ducks had won this

trade because I think Gochie is the better prospect, just my opinion. But I have to say, the more you think about it, and Corey made this point in our article that we did with Scott the other day is that Drysdale is pretty good, especially when you throw in the second rounder that they got for him. Yeah. Like that's pretty good value, especially for a player who wanted. it out. And I think when you look at where the flyers are right now, right at the fringe of a playoffs, but I think they're still technically in a playoff spot. They are the team that comes out

of this with the now player that can step right in and help them this season. And so I think that is very relevant as they chase a playoff spot is this is now basically an ad for them right now, whereas Gautier, you know, if he, even if he was going to sign, it wouldn't have been until very late in the season. This immediately puts a player into their line. I believe he's going to start in the top pair for them. And he's not had an amazing kind of season in Anaheim, but no one really has. I think that's kind of the fascinating thing here is it'll take him some time you expect to acclimate, but you're going to put him into a team that is in a better situation than he was in Anaheim,

and he's obviously only played 10 games this season too, but he is a guy who's been playing 20 minutes at night there. And so I think you throw him into a role on a team that seems to have a really good idea of what they are. maybe it takes in 10, 15 games to get on board with that. Right. But I think you're adding a top four defenseman for a young one. And so I think that's pretty good.

I think that will help Philadelphia right away. And of course, they get what will be a early second rounder, we would think in 2025 as well. And to maybe go back to the duck side of things here too. And maybe this is an oversimplification. I think you made this point too in the roundtable that you did with Corey and Scott Wheeler. but like Jamie Drysdale's a solid defender, but there's quite a few good D coming up in this kind of next year's draft. Like it's conceivable to me that Anaheim can kind of replace that young defensive prospect like as soon as this year by a draft, right?

That's what was so amazing to me about this for the Ducks is they were able to get Gautier and bulk up that forward core like we talked about. And I expect they're going to have a great chance to get a defenseman who I like even more. more than Drysdale in this class, whether that be Ardum Lovshuna, whether it be Anton Selya, whether it be Sam Dickinson from London. These are the kind of prospects that I think are solid bets to be future top four defensemen. All of them have a little bit more size than Jamie Drysdale. Drysdale is the now player. He's a really good player in his own right.

It's no knock against him. But I think there's a good chance when all is said and done. And they could have added a player like that regardless of trading him. But I think you got the forward that you wanted, and he's on a short track to the NHL. Now you're going to get a defenseman to kind of replace Dreisdale. I do see that as a pretty obvious kind of slam dunk. If you pick in the top five, you're going to come out of this with a defenseman that you love if you're in a time. So I just fired up my fave little tankathon draft simulator, draft lottery simulator.

And the ducks move up a spot. They got the second overall pick. So, yeah. What's fascinating to me is what happens if they get the first overall pick. Right. And all of a sudden you have this chance. The blues got first overall on this one. Oh, good for them.

That would be great for them. But if you get the chance to draft. If they go first, do you think like he's the, he's the consensus number one at this point? He is. He is the consensus number one at this point. But that's fascinating me because it's obviously super appealing to have the idea of like

Celebrini Carlson. Is McTavish become your third center? Do you bump him to the wing? That's not a bad spot to be in. What I would want to wonder about, and this never happens with the first overall pick, is that a situation where you could trade down to like two or three or four and get one of those defensemen that I talked about and get a haul? Or just draft the defender at number one.

No, I wouldn't do that. I would either take Celebrini and the high value player or get the extra assets to move down and get the defense. But this is where it's like, if that happens, that's where we get to really nerd out leading up to draft time. What do you do? Yeah. That was my own, like, stupid. just like just take them first like not even thinking of like the extra asset that would come with trading down but yeah yeah just go just take them first off wrong like who cares whatever i mean they're there they're

i don't cover the draft anymore what did i do last year at the drafts look at this walked around last year we knew it was badar but two years ago i think everyone thought it was shane right to lose and by the end of the process shane right's going forth so i'm not saying anything can can't shake that up. And certainly the way Selyev started the year, I think there was a ton of curiosity of how high could that guy go. But if it were me, if I'm Anaheim, if I win the lottery, that's a fascinating decision. Should I simulate the lottery one more time? Sure. Why not? Okay. I'm okay. Beepoo, boop, boop, boop, boop. That's the lottery. That's the lottery walls. Anaheim's fifth.

Montreal won the draft lottery. Congratulations. Montreal Canadians. And Anaheim went fifth. That was just irrelevant. I think I just wanted a draft lottery. You're going to get a really good defenseman. And I think their system calls for that.

So they're not bereft without. Minchikov's been amazing this year as a young rookie defenseman. You got Luno and Zellwiger on the way. So it's not like it's like desperation, but there's just such an opportunity to add what you've just traded away to get Gochier. And we don't know what's going to happen with these guys. It could be the drive still ends up the better pro than Goethe. I'm not proving that out.

Yeah. But you've gotten the piece that's this, you know, the big bodied score who can be a center if you need or a winger if you need. And you trade away a D to do it. But you can get another D and maybe a D with a little more physical toolkit in this draft. So anyways, long rambling answer. No, I mean, I was going to ask you like a little bit more about Cutter-Gotier's kind of prospect profile, but you did just hit a little bit of it there.

What's your sense on Jamie Driesdale and what he could become? Is he a top pair D? Is he a top four guy on a contender? What's your sense of kind of his development and his ceiling? I think number one, we just want to see Jamie Driesdale be healthy, right? He's only played between the last two seasons so far, which is out of 120 games, 18. So that's like the first and foremost thing, especially for a smaller defenseman. I don't think that's nothing. But, you know, the profile is as a player who's an elite skater and can handle the puck.

And if he can, you know, maybe can you develop into like a Jared Spurgeon type, right? And that could be your path to being the top four. You can maybe play on the power play. I'm not as qualified to do the exact kind of comps and profiling here as Scott and Corey would be. I did an article with Scott and Corey this week on kind of debating this trade. And I would encourage people to check that out. They've got the real heavy prospect insight. but I you know if if Jamie Driesdale can quarterback a power play for Anaheim and play 21 minutes a night like that's a slam dunk top 4D and I think he's already shown you to varying degrees that he can do that in the NHL so yeah I think he is a legit top four defenseman yeah if he can do that for the flyers that's right yeah um okay great well thank you max that was great it was prospect corner with max bullman and later in the show you're going to get a bend you're going to get I'm sorry Max is like so

stone face too that when I like say or do stupid things he just looks at me through the zoom I'm just like you're so stupid let me no I'm actually usually what you're probably seeing I'm probably reading something like something else to make sure that I didn't say the wrong thing like um prospect corner with max boltman later on the show you'll get a little bit of a bet mGM corner with max boltman he's an expert on the red wings on the uh prospects on the betting I don't know that I'm a I'm a an expert on betting or, you know, I try to dabble, he's sprinkled, sprinkled in a few bets here and there. The only bet that I've made in the last five years has been on Bobauchette to hit the over on two and a half hits, put 20 bucks on it. I won 60 and then I retired. That's great. I don't bet

on hockey actually, but I do cover it. So hopefully that gives some insight. Yeah, there you go. It'll be perfect. We're going to take a quick break. And when we come back, we're going to do a little bit of a mid-season awards outlook because the big trades, obviously a topic to dig into this week. But we're also at the mid-season mark for a lot of teams. We've got some awards to hand out. We'll do that when we come back. All right. We're back. Still no Sean. I don't know what, I actually don't know what he's doing. I don't know why he's not here, honestly. It just didn't show up this week. But it's fine. We don't need him. Max is breaking down the prospects. So now we're going to hand out some trophies. So we're at the halfway.

mark of the season. Some teams are officially there. Other teams are slowly getting there. It's kind of been the running joke of how many games the Ottawa Senators played this year. It's 36. Whereas the Tampa Bay Lightning, they played 42. So some teams are over the half, some are getting there. But we're going to call this the halfway mark of our podcast. And we've taken many weeks off. So we haven't played that many games as a Thursday show ourselves. The Ottawa Senator is a podcast rotation. Literally. But we're going to hand out some awards at the midseason mark. We're going to take a look at who we would give these awards to right now. So let's start with the Hart Trophy Max. I think we're both in agreement on this one. And like, by the way, there are going to be some that we both pick our own person. There'll be somewhere that that person is is the same. And I think we're on board. For me, it's Nathan McKinnon right now. Yeah, no, I'm with you. I mean, I think he's really willing the avalanche and you're seeing.

you know, peak McKinnon. I mean, he came close to one year, and I don't like to be a person who talks about it being people's turns. But I think when you have a player who's been as good in the league as Nathan McKinnon has since he came into the league and then he's having a season like this, it just kind of makes it feel like it's, you know, him going over the top. And this is kind of his time. And he's having a year befitting it.

Yeah, absolutely. He's absolutely the front runner for the Hart Trophy. and he's been, like, I think the best way to describe him sometimes is just a bull. Like, he's just, he's such a powerful player. When he's on, it's so hard to stop him. He's so strong on the puck. He's so dominant. That OT goal that he got last week, I think it was, was just such a great example of

Nathan McKinnon. And I, and I always, I sometimes hate using this. Like, I'm going to, like, when you talk about players, like, asserting their will on the game or saying, like, I'm going to decide that I'm going to win this. But, like, sometimes. it's true with McKinnon, like you can just see it. When he's like, you know what, I'm done. I'm just going to win this game and he goes and does it.

66 points through 41 games. The only person with more points than McKinnon is Nikita Kutrov. But I think we agree that the total package from McKinnon over Kutrov is more complete this year. So I think we're both, we're both on the McKinnon wagon. I think Kutrov can get as flowers if people want to give it to them. But I don't know if there's a huge debate over who's going to. who's the guy for the heart right now. It's interesting because one of the measures people will often use it.

With MVP, there's not kind of that slam dunk formula, right? Some people like to look at it as who's the best player in the league. Some like to look at it. And I historically have been this, who's the most valuable to their team? And one of the stats for the latter kind of interpretation people like to use is like how many points above the next highest score on your team are you? And in that regard, Kuturov, I think he's 25 up on Braden Point. as we sit here and record this,

which is kind of staggering. And I feel like with, you know, the Lightning and the Avalanche, they're both such talented teams that you don't really have to go that route for them. I think what it, what separates it for me,

though, is even though, you know, Rantan and McCar, tremendous players and superstar players in their own right, having really good seasons, I just feel like McKinnon is that important to an avalanche team that has so far been way better than the Lightning.

And to be that important for a team that is this good, one of the very top favorites for the Stanley Cup as we sit here at midseason. He's the driver. And so for me, it's him, I wouldn't call it that close. I don't know how close you feel it is between him and Kutrov, but I think it's McKinnon with a bullet. Yeah. And I think, you know, in terms of what happens in the second half of the season, a lot's

going to depend on McKinnon's sustaining and maintaining this level of play and what Connerick David can do. We've seen him surge in the past. What is he going to do individually? what will he do? How far will he take that Oilers team? So I think that will be a conversation and something we kind of continue to look at

because you can never forget about Connor McDavid in this league. You know, Dom Lus Chishin did his awards watch for the midseason and he kind of broke it down. And the one thing I will highlight about McKinnon as it relates to the conversation with Nikita Kutrov. It's that he's providing value without the puck, Nathan McKinnon is. And that's the big thing that's separating him from Kutrov in terms of the overall game, the positive impact he has on both sides of the puck. McKinnon's been on the ice for

57% of the actual and expected goals in Colorado this season, which are higher marks than Kutrov. So that's kind of why I think we're both on the Kutrov train is that total package from Nathan McKinnon. Let's go to the Norris. This is a hot button topic, I guess. I think if you would have talked to people a month ago, there would have been more of a debate between Kail McCar and Quinn Hughes. And McCar is obviously fabulous. He's going to win plenty of these awards. But for me, on January 10th, which is when we're recording this, 11th is when this is coming out, it's Quinn Hughes for the Norris for me right now. Like, I don't want to say McCar is like totally dropped off. But Hughes has been maintaining a very excellent level of play in production

through the first half of the season. And the role that he's playing for the Canucks is just really can't be overstated. He's being asked to do so much for them. I do agree that it's Hughes for me at this point. I have been really enjoying, and this was in Dom's Awards Watch piece, the rise of the rest of the class of 2018 defenseman with Evan Bouchard and Noah Dobson. I think they were all, I think they might have been one, two, three on the graphic that he had. I don't know if that's how he would necessarily vote it today, but still like really kind of a fun little treat for all those guys that went right around each other. But to me, it is Quinn Hughes. And I think he's just been everything to them.

Right now, I would have a hard time keeping Quinn Hughes off my heart ballot as well. And that doesn't always perfectly tell with the Norris. Okay. Yeah. But in this case, I think it does. what about Quinn Hughes makes him a heart trophy candidate for you? I think just how central he is to what they do. I know his defensive numbers maybe aren't like crazy,

crazy good, but they are still perfectly solid for, I think, a guy who offensively has been as dynamic as it gets in the league this season, he's so central to one of the league's best power plays to a resurgent team like that. I think some of those elements, when you start talking about like the heart, I do think you want to see a team that's doing something because of this player. And certainly, Kail McCar, like we just talked about, is really important to the avalanche, obviously, and so much of what they do. But I feel like Quinn Hughes's elevation has elevated the entire Vancouver Canucks team.

And so for me, he's the midseason Norris. And I think if I'm filling out a heart ballot today, he's somewhere on that ballot. I don't know that it's top two or necessary, but he could be his highest three, honestly, for me. Okay. Vancouver Canucks, by the way, lead the league as of Wednesday night before the slate of games in regulation wins with 26.

So that's kind of like an extra thing there too, right? They're the league's best team right now. I think if you go by points in the standings, Winnipeg is number one. But I am a big believer in the regulation win. And this is a PWHL thing now. Like now that the PWHL is a 321 point system. I'm like, thank you.

A regulation win is more valuable. than an OT winner, a win in a shootout, and I think that the points and the standings should reflect that. So sometimes I like to remind myself of the teams that are, like, dominant and winning games and regulation. It's been a recency bias, too, because the Canucks just, like, took a tear through the New York metropolitan area, you know, beating up on the Rangers, the Devils, and the Islanders over the last three days.

So I'm with you on the Quinn's love. Did you read Mendez's article, kind of like looking at what the standings would look like with the 321 system. I thought that was really good, really interesting. Yeah, I think it's, you know, something that the NHL should adopt to.

They should copy and follow the women because they're smarter. Simple as that. We just lost a lot of listeners. Sorry. Okay, let's move on to the next one here.

Let's go to the Vezna. We could give some more love to the Canucks. I think Thatcher Demko is absolutely in the conversation again. The Canucks have 27 regulation wins. He's a big reason for that. But I'm going Connor Hellebuck. He's only lost six games in regulation this season.

21 wins through his first 30 starts. 2.20 goals against average. If the season ended today, that would be Connor Hellebuck's lowest goals against average of his career. And this is a guy who's had like a ton of Fesna caliber seasons. But this year could end up being his best. He's got a 923 save percentage. That's the second highest of his career to date.

And he's on pace to win 40 games. That would be the second time he's done it in his career. The last time he won more than 40 games was he won 44 games in 2017, 18, and he lost the Vesnet of Peca Rene. And the Preds were the President's trophy winners that year. So I think this is a big year, like a big Vesna caliber year for Connor Hellebuck. And I don't necessarily, I don't want to jinx anything, but I don't necessarily see a drop off because this isn't one of those years for me where it's like, ooh, if Connor Hellebuck isn't a 920 goalie, the Jets are toast. Like the Jets actually look good in front of him, which I think is only going to make his numbers look better at the end of the day.

So I'm team Hullabuck for Vesna this year. I'm with you. And I think those two guys that you mentioned with Halebuck and Demko, they're two of the guys that are really kind of that throwback horse and goal for their team. And especially as we see the, it's not even so much the tandem because I don't know that you're really, although Linus Allmark did get it last year in a tandem. But you're looking for these guys that can be your 55, 60 plus game starters. Those are two of them.

And there are more out there. You know, UC Soros is certainly in that conversation. and Ilya Sorokin, Igor Shostirkin. But I like giving it to a horse like that. And I think especially if you start looking a little bit of the advanced numbers, Hellebuk, 21.46 goals saved above expected. It's actually not first. Jacob Markstrom is ahead of him.

I don't think you can give it to a Calgary Flames goalie, partly because they're just giving up so many expected goals. That's going to be. Yeah, why what happened? Right, exactly. I'm with Hellebuck, though. I think that's the way. And another guy who I think is just helping to elevate the entire

team around him. Boy, am I just going to put him on the MVP ballot too here? I don't know. I think there's a case for it. So when Hellebuck won the Vesna, I guess that was in 2020. Yes. I had him on my heart ballot because I just thought he was so critical to what he finished six.

Like you were not alone. He finished sixth in that voting. And I think that was legitimate. And I think the Jets are a team. they're probably the surprise team in the NHL to this point. And I have to give hell a bucket. He's not the only reason, but I have to give him a ton of the credit. So I'm with you on the Vesna.

We won't actually vote on that one. That's one of the awards that we can speak especially freely on. Yeah. Because we don't have any say on it. But that's who I would like to see. I wonder why that is. Do they just think like media are dumb when it comes to goalies? They wouldn't necessarily.

But we're smart about the most gentlemanly player. Like we're by the way, like, we're not doing that. I didn't put it on the list. Yeah. No, of course. Unless you have an idea for it. Like, I'm not doing the lady Bing. No, I, uh, sorry folks. My lady Bing ballot is, uh, not the most scientifically composed, I have to say. Um, look at who has the fewest Pims and the most points. There you go. It's part of it. But I also do, like, look for like captains and I look for guys who I feel like are, you know, I actually, one of the things I do for Lady Bing is I look at defensive defensemen and defensive centers with. And, like, it's part of it. And, how many penalties they take. Exactly. Yeah. But that's only part of it. Like, it's just not very scientific. And I have to say, you mentioned it aren't too dumb to grade goalies. I might be too dumb to grade goalies. I don't know anything about whole time. So honestly, I've been doing some of the broadcast for the PWHL. And I went into the pregame for a Montreal, the Montreal game on Saturday. And I was like so proud of

myself because I did all this research research and I had this like pack about Anne Renee Debian and she like led in three goals no two goals and one of them was a stinker I was like oh and then the other goal he got a shutout but like the other goal he got the shutout and day bien lost and I was like okay I guess I should have talked about Maddie Rooney some more on the pregame but I was like this is fine I'm still right yeah big in the long run yeah goalies are goalies are a voodoo. So I'm a big like they have the lady Bing be from the refs or something, you know, because we don't know what's going on down there. I don't know who's a gentleman. I don't know these people.

Anyways, I think we're both in agreement on Connor Hallibuck. I think people still give us to love to. I think we need some disagreements here. How about coach of the year? We need Sean. We need, we need Sean to just be like kind of rude. I know. We need Corey. Who do you got for the year? Kind of mean to me. Okay. I actually haven't been able to decide.

Okay. I've got a bunch of names here. And I feel now that I'm talking too much about the Canucks, I was going to give Rick Tocet some love. And I probably will. Like, I think if the Canucks finish with the most regulation wins of the year, you know what? Screw it. I'm going with Rick Tocke. They have the most regulation.

wins right now. I love the Canucks. I'm the anti-Dom. I love Vancouver. I think they've got the most regulation wins this season. I like what I've seen from that team in terms of the turnaround from certain players. I think you just look at J.T. Miller and not to give all of the credit to Rick Tockett. But J.T. Miller's had a much better season, especially when we're talking about his complete game. I think if you look at Dom's Awards watch, J.T. Miller is actually one of the, like, top candidates for the Selke. That is not something we were saying about J.T. Miller last season. And I think you can credit J.T. Miller for, you know, making changes and focusing in on his game and making adjustments after last season.

But I do also think you have to credit the coach and the system and, like, the vibe that he's, like, implemented in that room. And I feel like I've talked about this before, but I always go back to, um, there was a game against a Nashville Predators and the Canucks were not playing very well, but they still beat the Preds like 6-2 or something. You could call it a blowout. Elias Pedersen gets a hat trick, but he gets benched because he had some like poor DZone details. J.T. Miller has to sit down for four minutes in a certain game because like his details are lacking. And this is a game in which they're sticking it to the Preds and they're about to get the two points in regulation, but Talk, it's not like letting up on the details.

in the style of game that's important, right? It's like we're not going to be happy with this win because there are certain things that you're doing that is not going to fly. And that's something that that's just like one example and it's not the only thing, but I think that's something that I've really appreciated from Tocet and really appreciated watching that Canucks team this season.

I know it's shocking. I live in the Eastern time zone and I stay up late to watch the Canucks. But I think I would go with Tocket if I had to make a bet right now. my other option. And I don't know if this is what you're going with, but I do think Paul Marie should be in this conversation. We had this chat on the show before Max with Sean. How shocking it was.

We went from thinking like how are the Panthers going to sustain all those injuries to, oh my God, the Panthers defensive numbers have been even better than they were last season without at Blatt and Montour. And they're one of the top teams in terms of regulation wins in the NHL right now too. I believe they're second or third. It's Florida, the Jets, and the Canucks at number one with like 26, 25, 24, or something like that. So I think Paul Maurice gets a ton of flowers here too.

But who would you go with? Well, first of all, you talked about this my least favorite refrain, which is that East Coast voters do not stay up and watch Western games. I just got back from a week in California. And when I tell you that I had no concept for what happened in the East Coast. The league on the East Coast while I was there to such a more staggering degree than I've ever had that problem, the other direction. Because you're not going to be watching a game at like 5 p.m. While I'm on my way to the rink, no, no chance, right? So that was the most interesting thing to me is I wonder if that myth just happens because people on the West are actually completely unaware of anything happening to the east of them at all.

Yeah. Just give them starting at like 4 o'clock. Yeah, I know. When I was in Calgary, it was just like, I don't know what the Leafs are doing. Like I'm no chance. Took me so long to get. I'm still at the dome from morning skate or whatever, you know. I don't know what's going on.

That being said, this is maybe, I don't know if this is lazy or not. I think it's John Tortorella. And I don't know. I know people don't like this idea that coach of the year is just the coach that like overachieves the most. But if this Flyers team that had the seventh overall pick last year and no shortage by the way of tumult around them can actually get into the playoffs. I don't know how you don't give it to John Tortoril. I think Rick Tocke has done a tremendous job.

I think as you mentioned, Paul Maurice, and I'd had Jim Montgomery in there as someone who has guided a team losing Patrice Bergeron. I mean, when you talk about like the leadership vacuum that that could have left, Montgomery has, I think, get some consideration there, even though the Bruins are coming off such a great year and we'll almost, I mean, we'll certainly finish with a lower point total than a year ago. I think that really does speak to do a team's culture.

but I think a lot of that still goes to their leaders, right? And those guys didn't leave Brad Marchand and Pasternac-McCovew, all these guys that have been there. So I'm going with Tortorella. I just think the Flyers have so far surpassed my expectations. And it's honestly been in, obviously you expect a John Tortorella team to do it a certain way, and they are a top 10 defensive team in the NHL.

They're also a top half of the league offense underlying numbers-wise. And I think that is just such, so remarkable when I look at what they have to work with. the results that they're getting, it's John Tortorella for me. Totally. And I wonder how that changes, like, if the drop-off happens. But that team's super interesting because I think people are still holding on to the, like, they're going to regress eventually thing. And I'm sure, I'm sure they will.

Like, I don't know if the Flyers are going to be a playoff team. Underlying numbers say that they are underperforming right now. Right. And so that's the thing where it's like. At what point do we just say that the flyers are pretty good right now? Like it's January 10th. Like the whole regression happens within the season. We saw it with the Jets last year.

They had a complete second half drop off to the point where it was like, are they even going to make the playoffs? Like what's going on with the Jets? Like the Jets gave the flames an opportunity to make the playoffs. At the kind of last week, because they were so bad in the second half of the season. So it's possible, but we're far enough along into the season.

There's enough of a statistical, you know, I forgot the word. We have enough of like a sample size, thank you, to look and say, okay, the flyers have not just been pretty good, but actually underperforming based on some of their underlying numbers. Yeah, I mean, you look at the roster and you say they should regress, and then you look at what the data is through 40 games, and it says, nope, actually, they should be at least this good.

Like, they're doing okay. Bravo to them. Yeah, because it's not like they're not getting PDO, or whatever, you know, it's not from some kind of 98% safe percentage or a 20% shooting. So I think the flyers are super interesting. I think Kevin Kerr has made the point of like, are people going to stop? Are people going to start thinking like, okay, we're far enough along in that they're okay, maybe, but I doubt it. People are annoying.

Do you want to hit the Selke? Oh, and by the way, J.T. Miller is not in the Selkeye conversation on Tom's model. Was he in heart? No, he's not on the story at all. It was the ESPN Awards Watch that I was reading. J.T. Miller was a finalist. Yeah, I'm not totally dumb, but J.T. Miller was a finalist in the one that Greg Wyshinsky at ESPN did. It does add to you being anti-DOM, though.

You know what? You're right. The Competitors Awards Watch and not Dom's. Sorry. I will go to Salky. Yeah. Yes, do it. I don't know if I'm doubling.

down on my preseason prediction for who fills the Patrice Brouser Envoy. But I think Alexander Barkoff has legitimately been deserving of this kind of conversation, especially when you think about the players that they were missing to start the year. And I think he was a huge reason that they were able to stay afloat through that. So he's my kind of early pick. I think there's other good candidates out there. I think a lot of the usual suspects and that has kind of become the reputation of the Selke is that we just talk about the same guys over and over. But honestly, Isn't that kind of true of every award at this point? Yeah, pretty much.

It's not like Connor Hallibuck and the Vesna conversation is like a new and exciting thing. Right. So we can talk about Jordan Stahl, talk about Erickson, and I think they're both valid. And Barkov certainly fits that mold, but as of God, I think that's where I'd leave. I feel like Anzee Kopitar should like continue to get love in the Selki conversation. The fact that he still plays a ton of minutes in important situations, P.K. for the Kings. So I'm always like a big

Copa Tar gets some love person. What was really interesting and this was on Dom's Awards Watch is that Nick Suzuki actually is the best defensive rating by his model of any defensive forward who meets the criteria of over 16 minutes per game and 15% of their team short-handed minutes

and face above average forward competition. So if you look at Dom's model right now by the defensive rating, the best defensive forward in the NHB. Chal is Nick Suzuki. I don't hate that. I think it's kind of fun. It's kind of fun.

I think so. But I don't know if anybody without maybe looking at that, say, for Habs fans would be banging the table for Suzuki and the Selki conversation. It's just hard to get noticed when you're not on a playoff or near playoff. Like, Sean Coturi, it would be another guy who I think if the Flyers make the playoffs as a real case in this conversation. But I think it's really hard to give these awards to guys. I don't set that as a policy, but I just think it's hard to get the award when you're not on a playoff team.

Yeah, I think it's going to be interesting, too, because we see it with young players, like, the first time that they kind of like nudged their name into the conversation. They don't show up on a ton of ballots and they certainly don't win. And for years, it was because of the Patrice Bergeron element of like, okay, yeah, Anthony Sorrelli had an excellent season, but like he's still a kid and he's not better than Patrice Bergeron. so sorry, buddy. So it'll be interesting to see what new names potentially get into this conversation. Let's do one more before we head to a break. And that's the Calder. So most people would have assumed heading into the season that the Calder trophy was just going to go to Connor Bedard.

But there's been a wrinkle. Connor Bedard, very unfortunately, just had surgery for a fractured jaw. He's out six to eight weeks. So that's going to blow open the door for someone to steal. this award. He could come back and play great and still win it, but for context, Connor McDavid, who was the first overall picked by the Oilers, as we know in 2015. He had a great start to his rookie season, 12 points in 13 games, and then he broke his clavicle, missed 37, finished the season still more than a point per game player, 48 points,

and 45 games, but because that sample size, he finished third and Calder Trophy voting. So McDavid did not win Rookie of the Year in his rookie season. So maybe Badaard could still be the guy, but I don't think so. And I also think that there was a bit of a debate around maybe not. I think most people would still say it's Badaard,

but I do think there were people making the case for guys like Luke Hughes, Brock Faber, in that conversation, right? Yeah. I mean, is that where you're going with this? Are you going to lobby for one of the D-Men? I think that, like, I'm a big Brock Faber gal. 19 points in 39 games.

He's averaging just under 25 minutes of ice time, which leads the wild and all rookie defenders. I think Jared Spurgeon missing time over multiple stints here with the lower body injury has, you know, given somebody like Brock Faber even more opportunity on the blue line. and he's like stepped up and he looks totally comfortable. Like he doesn't look like a kid rookie D man. And he wore a PWHL Minnesota jersey to the game the other day. So love that for him.

But I honestly think that like I would have had to sit and think about even if maybe if Baderd had like a hundred points or whatever, then obviously like I'm just putting that out there. But I do think even if Baderd didn't get hurt, I probably would have had to sit and think for a second like what's more important. important here. Bard producing well on a bad team or Brock Faber coming out and being very impressive on the wild blue line. I know the wild aren't a great team, but they're not in the Blackhawks tier. What do you think? It's a complicated one because I think you make a lot of good points. And I think Faber has probably been the most important rookie to his team. He's probably made the best adjustment to the NHL. I think all of that is really valid. And I think it's, there's this temptation, I think.

You talked about McDavid not winning the Calder Trophy. And there's a part of me, I didn't vote in that year. I wasn't. Yeah, I was still at school. Yeah, exactly. But what do you think about that? Like, when you look back in hindsight, does that strike you as like, embarrassing would feel like the wrong word, but like silly?

I don't know, like, you know what I mean? I think because he only played that many games, it's fine. And I think if it, I think if he would have played like 60 games and he's still lost or something, then that would be a joke. It's like, okay, what are we doing here? You know, he only missed like 20. We're not asked to predict. We're not asked to predict like who's the best player going to be.

Yeah, totally. On the Calder trophy, right? You're asked who had the best season. And so. Artemi Panarin won that year. And I think that, yeah, like Panarin won that year. But I think that was like the complicated one. Panarin was 24 years old.

Old, right? It's like Caprizov. Right? Like that's the Caprizov conversation. But like he did have 77 points. He had 30 goals. Um, and he played the full season. McDavid, um, 48 points. Um, and he only played 45 games.

So he missed almost half the season. So I think because he missed that much time, I'm okay with it. But Dard might not get to 60 games, right? If this ends up being eight weeks, there's a, I mean, you get the all star break is going to help. Yeah. 60. that might be right at the cutoff for where he is, right?

So there's this part of me that's like he's having a great year. And I am worried about looking back in five years and being like, how did I not vote this guy rookie of the year? Right. At the same time, you know, Brock favor is having a tremendous impact on the Minnesota Wild. And if the Minnesota Wild make the playoffs leaning on Brock Faber to the degree that they have, he among defensemen with at least 200 minutes of five-on-five ice time is top 10 in the NHL and expected goals against, right?

Like, that's, you're not supposed to be able to do that in your first year in the NHL, especially in this kind of workload. His workload is crazy. I think he's played as many or more, more five on five minutes this year than Miro Hayskin. It was like an unquestioned number one defenseman in the Dallas. So I kind of want to side with you, but there's this but you're not. But you're not.

I don't know. I don't have to vote today. This isn't my, I guess I kind of, for the show. show, I kind of have to. I think, how about this? Padard's only missed a few games as it right now. If I'm casting my ballot based on what's happened at this point, I think I'm giving it to Padard.

Okay. But if he doesn't get to right around that 60 threshold, I think Faber becomes a very defensive vote. Yeah. I still, yeah, I'm with you. I think Luke Hughes is the other one in that conversation. He's had a very good rookie season with the New Jersey Devils. And I think one of the interesting things,

I saw this on TNT. he was talking about just the adjustment to the NHL. I think it was Paul Bissonette with the question and how at this point in the season, his college year probably would have been done by now. Like he's playing more hockey than he has in a long time, and he's playing more minutes. And with Dougie Hamilton out,

he's taking on more as a rookie D man typically would, and he's been playing very well too. So I think if Badaard's out for eight weeks, we're going to have a pretty interesting debate over these kind of top rookies. And it's kind of fun that we're talking about two defenders.

It is. No, I think that's a good development. I remember when in Moritz-Cider's rookie year, that was like a big storyline of like, oh, you know, defensemen don't win this award very often. And that feels silly to me

because I think especially the way the league is going, young defensemen are making massive, massive impacts on their teams. And I think obviously it's harder for young defensemen to like pile up points. And that happens to be a big fact. in this award historically, but I think if a young defenseman is playing like a 20 plus minute a night role on a team, especially a good team, that carries a ton of weight for me. And so I think

it's good that we're talking about these defensemen like this. Absolutely. Okay, I think that's it for our midseason awards. We will kind of follow up and see how we did at the end of the season. How stupid am I going to look? We'll take a quick break. And when we come back, we do have a bit of news that we can talk about. Corey Perry has been deemed eligible to sign with NHL teams. after a meeting with Gary Betman. That just came out a few minutes ago when you're listening to this. It'll be Thursday morning, so it won't be totally breaking news. But it is for us.

So we're going to take a quick break, check out what happened here, and we'll finish off the third segment. All right, we're back with a little bit of news here on this Wednesday night. Corey Perry is now eligible to sign with any national hockey league team as a free agent after having his contract terminated by the Chicago Blackhawks on November 30th. that's after a meeting with league commissioner Gary Bettman from our colleague Chris Johnston and this is just a bit of

it's not totally news here but this is just important context Corey Perry would need to sign by the March 8 trade deadline in order to be eligible for this year's playoffs I yeah I don't know this is like a weird one I'm not shocked I'm honestly not surprised by this Max

I was asked in the immediate aftermath of Corey Perry's contract being terminated. I was doing Sportsnet Radio and someone said, do you think a team takes a flyer on him this season? I was like, yeah, I do. Like, honestly, I'm not surprised by this and I will not be shocked if and when somebody signs him. Like, unfortunately, we don't totally know what happened. I think that's important to say. But what we do know is that the Blackhawk said an internal investigation determined Perry,

quote, engaged in conduct that is unacceptable and in violation of both the terms of a standard player's contract and the Blackhawks internal policies intended to promote professional and safe work environment. So I guess my big question is what exactly happened and what did Gary Betman find that made him think that he should be able to play after the Blackhawks deemed him not able to play for their organization. Yeah, one of the things that jumped to my mind, right, as we were here in this news, as we were recording, was, was, you know, right around the time of the termination of the contract, there was kind of this idea out there that, you know, the Blackhawks needed because of their recent history,

obviously involving the Kyle Beach situation, that they needed to have like the highest standard here. And I don't know whether that was a good argument or not for behavior that the Blackhawks deemed to be unacceptable. Yeah. But I guess we're going to find out if other teams do deem this, not to say they deem it acceptable, but they deem it, you know, eligible or a Perry, you know, able to move past it with him and to sign him. And I tend to agree with you, Haley, that some team is going to determine that they're willing to do that. I think about like the Evander Cain situation, which, you know, you never want to get into kind of comparing, you know, what's worse or whatever, right? But that was a situation where I saw the Edmonton Oilers say, okay, we know what's out there

and we're going to sign this player anyway. And honestly, they're the first team that jumped into my head for who might be interested in signing him because he does strike me as a player who has a lot of the things they're missing. And they demonstrated with pain that they're willing to overlook some of this other stuff in search of that. Right or wrong. I'm not defending that if that's what they do. But that would be the first team that comes to my mind. And like you, I'm not surprised at the NHL ultimately. decides they're going to leave this to the free market here.

Yeah, and I think, so this is according to Elliot Friedman from Sportsnet, that meeting with Commissioner Gary Betman happened on Tuesday, and now the news is breaking here on Wednesday night that, you know, they've deemed that he's eligible to sign with any team as a free agent, as you said, like I see a team looking at Corey Perry and what he provides. This is a guy who's made it all the way to the cup final multiple times. He's one of those guys that people, you know, right before this stuff happened,

there was a bunch of articles about how great Corey Perry was in the room and he's the best teammate. I don't, I think there's going to be teams who still think of that and they think of that guy. And they say, I think we could get him for a million because he's not going to be on a four million dollar contract anymore. So I won't be surprised if and when that happens. It's very NHL. I'd add to Haley is like the, when you talk about like, like, okay, they deemed him eligible to

signed. That is probably a line that the NHL feels I would guess if it were me. They need to have a pretty clear precedent on what crosses the line that you are not even eligible to play in their league. And I do understand that you don't want to set that bar.

Yeah, it'll be like a PA nightmare kind of thing. Yeah. Right. Sure. It always ends up being like a legal PA thing. Yes. So as to your original point, Max, it will be very interesting to see which teams deem that behavior from Corey Perry to be okay with their organization where it wasn't with the Blackhawks and this from something that they're willing to say as part of the paths.

Like I don't think if this were to happen in their organization. He apologized. It's okay because Corey Perry, of course, when that stuff happened, he released an apology admitting his behavior was inappropriate and wrong. But he also added that he would work with experts to discuss his struggles with alcohol. He apologized to the organization. teammates, employees, fans, etc. This was from Elliot Friedman's

quick story on SportsNet tonight as well, said, and this was to your point about their kind of internal standard. Kyle Davidson, the general manager of the Blackhawks, met with the team, and while he did not disclose the specific incident that happened that led to Corey Perry being terminated sources indicated to SportsNet, that he made

very clear the organization could not tolerate or afford any misbehavior in the aftermath of the Kyle Beach situation. So Corey Perry, he's a free agent and he is eligible to sign with an NHL team from now until March 8th. He could do it after, but if he does, he can't play in the playoffs. Just to clarify one thing on this, too, before we wrap up the Corey Perry conversation, and this is from our colleague here at the athletic Pierre LeBrun, Gary Bettman didn't actually need to officially clear Corey Perry to play because the commissioner hadn't barred him from playing to begin with. But Betman, according to LeBron, met with Perry at the player's request. That was Tuesday, Wednesday night. We get the kind of official word that he is, in fact, eligible to sign with

the team. Right. And so, and that goes, it's not so much a decision to clear. It's a decision to not ban and it wasn't a decision that was like a you must make this but it kind of reinforces that this idea of uh yeah it was a you know it was a black hawks decision to to terminate the contract but cori perry was not actually barred from playing in the nchl in the first place um so yeah he's he's allowed to sign before the trade deadline if he wants to play in the playoffs if a team wants to add them to their playoff team so that's the news from cori perry or on cori perry before we in the show, we wanted to take a look at the current Stanley Cup favorites at the midway point of the season. We did the midseason awards, but there's like a bigger trophy. That's my little.

Much bigger. I always have like a like a transition and then I like laugh at myself on it and it kind of ruins the smooth transition because I'm like laughing or I'm impressed with myself that I was able to do that. There's a bigger. There's a bigger award. It's called the Stanley Cup. Let's take a look at some of the odds from our friends and partners. And partners. at BetMGM. So BetMGM currently has the Colorado Avalanche with the best odds at winning the Stanley Cup with plus 750 right now. And their partner or their opponent, we should say, would be the New York Rangers.

That's per BetMGM right now. That's plus 850. What do we think about that? Do we think that's going to be the Stanley Cup final matchup? The first thing that jumps out of me looking at the lines is that the Rangers do have the best. best odds to win the Stanley Cup of the Eastern Conference teams. But there are actually five teams that BetMGM gives equal odds to come out of the Eastern Conference, that being the Rangers,

the Bruins, the Canes, the Leafs, and the Panthers. So Betmgm just saying, of those teams, the Rangers are the ones that it feels that we have the best chance to beat the avalanche or, you know, whoever comes out of the West, right? And so, yeah, it is. And I kind of get it, but I think what you're also seeing is, Bet MGM sees this as a pretty wide. open Eastern Conference. And I think they're exactly right about that. Yeah, absolutely, because as you said, it's the Panthers, Leaves, Rangers, Bruins and Cains,

all with the same odds at winning the Eastern Conference. The Aves are the favorite to win the West, and again, the favorite to win the Stanley Cup. I think there's a bit of a similar situation in the Western Conference. The Golden Knights just edging out the Oilers and Stars to make the Western Conference final. but those three teams are still pretty close on those lines. I think personally I would give a bit of the edge to the Dallas stars

over the Oilers of the Golden Knights, but I think it's fair to have the Golden Knights as that kind of second best team in the West right now. They just won the Stanley Cup. We've seen them do it before. But I just feel like, don't we just agree with them that it's going to be the Avs? They'd be my favorite. Yeah, I think, you know, you're looking for value. I think the stars are continue to be a team that I think certainly should be within the top three or four.

And they are not there by the odds. And so I think that's, you know, notable. I know you're. Yeah, what's the Jets line? I'm a Jets girlie now. Let's go. Jets are 1600. So, like, if you're looking for, you know, and I do see it.

Like, you're talking about the team that's in first place in the NHL and you can get the 16. One seven straight. We're talking about the Vesna, potential Vesna winning goals. What would scare me? Let's go. Sprinkle, a little sprinkle. Vegas knows, right? It is, but Vegas knows that standings.

And to me, in my limited betting experience, I don't really want to bet on a team at their high water mark. And if at their high watermark, they're 16 to 1, man, that tells me that, like, uh, might be over my skis on it, even though it's great odds to win it. So if I were someone who wanted to do, two bet on the Jets.

Yeah. Which I, you know. If I want to sprinkle, if I want to sprinkle a 10 or a 20 on the test, you're saying I should wait for like a three game losing streak. I'd wait for a losing streak. See if you can get those odds to go up a little bit. I don't know that I want to be placing that bet at their high watermark, especially if they're already giving you good value.

Maybe it gets even better. But it also would tell me I might want to stay away from that one person. Okay. Here we go. That's Bet MGM Corner with Max Boltman. Let's go. Thanks. I'm going to hold on to my $20 bill for just a little bit.

longer. We'll see. All right, and that brings us to the end of this episode of the athletic hockey show. Thanks everyone for listening. We just want to remind you, give us a rating. Hopefully a five-star rating, give us a review. We'd love to hear your feedback. Chat with us in the comment section, too. Give us some questions because sometimes we don't know what we're talking about in the third segment. And if you give us like good comments and questions, then it really helps us. provide a good product. And just a reminder that you can follow us on YouTube. That's YouTube.com slash at The Athletic Hockey Show.

And right now you can get a one-year subscription to The Athletic for $2 a month when you visit Theathletic.com slash hockey show. Ian and Julian have the next edition of The Athletic Hockey Show on Monday. Thanks everyone for listening. Bye, Max. Bye.