The Athletic Hockey Show - Mike Sullivan on building Team USA, Kirill Kaprizov contract negotiations, Brady Tkachuk ready to cash in

Episode Date: September 14, 2021

Sean Gentille and guest co-host Max Bultman welcome Pittsburgh Penguins head coach Mike Sullivan, the bench boss for Team USA at the 2022 Winter Olympics. Sullivan discusses the plethora of talent available to Team USA, and the challenges ahead in finding the right mix to go for Gold in Beijing China.Sean and Max also discuss the negotiations between the Minnesota Wild and star winger Kirill Kaprizov which have stalled, the 8 year 64 million deal which has reportedly been offered to Brady Tkachuk by the Ottawa Senators, and the guys look back on the career of Ryan Kesler who says he has played his last game in the NHL. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Good afternoon. Welcome to a Craig Custin's List episode of the Athletic Hockey Show. This is the Americans. I think all told this is an upgrade. We have a certain number of Michigan area men. Not Michigan men because Craig's a Spartan, a Spartan weirdo. But we have a we have a certain amount of Michigan dudes we need to have on this podcast. So filling in is the Red Wings Beat Rider. my close personal friend, Max Bolton. What's up, dude? Not a lot, Sean. I'm very glad to be here.

I'm also just glad you didn't introduce me as your nephew. So, like, that's really a win already for me. I get the friend upgrade here. Yeah, it's two-time, two-time Sean Jintilly, intern, extraordinaire, Max Bolton. And we've known each other for, I think, 25 years at this point. I knew when you were three, whatever it is. What's going on in your neck of the woods, man?

What's up? Is there anything new about the Red Wings? Do we have anything we need to get out of the way there with them right now? Nothing new. I mean, they start their prospect tournament this week. So that's what's dominating the airwaves right now. Thursday, things will kick off. I mean, that's a five-team tournament.

So there's a good chunk of players that'll be up there at Center Ace Arena. It's a very fun event. So I'm looking forward to that. I do always get a cold at it. So we'll see how that goes over. This would be a bad year to get a cold. But I'm stoked for that. it's kind of the unofficial start of

hockey season to be up there. And they're going to have Lucas Raymond will be up there and Jonathan Berger, one of their prospects in Sweden. And there'll be a whole host of teams up there, St. Louis, Dallas. It'll be a good time up there in Traverse City. I blew it not going to it this year,

man. It's been, it's been a while. It's still just, it's still so bizarre getting back into the swing of things on a work. On the work end of things, on the personal end of things. Like travel is just Travel is just so, so bizarre. I got off a plane for the first time in, you know, 18 months or whatever it was a few days ago.

It was just a completely, a completely foreign experience. Have you flown anywhere yet? Yeah. So Alice and I, my girlfriend, we flew to San Diego a few weeks ago for a quick little vacation, tried to get him before the season started. And yeah, I mean, it is a very different flying experience. I had forgotten somehow how, what? brutal what flying is like and I think I don't think it got to be easier in the last two years so

I don't have TSA anymore so it's like I'm taking the pre-check dude I'm like taking off my shoes I don't have it either whatever our guest today is I mean we'll just come out I should have come out and said this at the top but whatever it's Mike Sullivan we got a we got we got we got the U.S. Men's Olympic team official coach head coach of the Pittsburgh Penguins my neighbor, I think, I think 20 miles or so to the north. Max, he was, he was, he was, he was really good. That was, that was, he gave us, he gave us more than I expected. That was, that was really, really good stuff from Sullivan on the process, what has been like so far.

And, you know, kind of the, the prep work he's already doing. I think you could really tell, too, through the interview, like how much it means to him, how excited he is to be in that role. and you can kind of get a little bit of enthusiasm. You'll see when we do the interview. But, you know, I think he's given quite a bit of thought to it. Maybe more thought than maybe you usually get a coach to admit, I guess, at this early stage about it. I mean, that was like, that was like the challenge, right?

Like, like just flat out asking them like, all right, who's going to be on the lines? Let's talk some lines, coach. Let's roll. Who's in the flank on the power play? I know you know. Is Jack Hughes going to be? be on this team, yes or no. Right now, Mike, go, go. But now he was really good, though. He was fun. And obviously, talking about some of the older guy, he talked about the generation that he

considers to kind of be the standard bearers of USA hockey. And I think, you know, also acknowledge that this group that's going to go to these Olympics in 2022, at least has the potential to someday push that and try to rise to that level. And I thought that was, you know, I think that's what a lot of people in the U.S. want to see from this, this era of USA hockey. And that's been the great hope that, you know, if the NHL did get back into the Olympics, like the USA has a team that, you know, nobody's saying they're Canada, but I'm not saying they couldn't beat them in one elimination game either. And one of those guys we talked about, I mean, I feel like any time we talk about national team stuff, we have some digression on the on the kichucks because it's,

because it's inevitable at this point there, you know, in a lot of ways, I think it's a, it's a neck and neck battle with them and the Hughes to kind of be the, whatever, the first family of American hockey at this point. And Mike, Mike had some great bits about, about, you know, Keith Kachuk and what their experience like was together. They, they, they almost overlapped at BU, which was, which was, which would have been, one year. Which would have been, which would have been, which would have been wild. But yeah, we do have, we do have, we got, we got, we got, we got Brady Kachuk, looking at an eight-year, $64 million offer from the Sends, we need to kind of recalibrate how we think about contracts, right? I mean, $8 million for Brady Kachuk on,

you know, out of a quasi-bridge deal is that's a, that's a big, big number. And it's, it's not a knock on Brady either, right? Like, go, go get it if you can. But an $8 million dollar A-A-V for Brady-Cochuk potentially here is a, is a wild thing to kind of process. And it's even, it's out of the ELC, isn't it? Or did he? Yeah. He didn't. That's what I'm saying.

Like, just completely, completely bypassing any, any sort of bridge deal and not, not buying up all that much, just being like, all right, here we go. You've got X amount of years left in our, but we're still going to hit, we're still going hit 80 year. That's, that's wild. Yeah. I mean, so here's my initial reaction to the conjecting is it's obviously a high salary number for a guy who has yet to kind of break the 50 point threshold in the NHL. And I'm sure that's what a lot of people are going to point to here.

And I think that's fair. Like, you never want to get yourself into a spot where you're not getting kind of the production you need for that high dollar hit. But I also do think one of the huge advantages they have here is giving him this deal at such a young age at 21, 22 years old. Like this thing's only going to age until he is 2930. He is still going to be very much in his prime there. No risk of a drop off. And he's going to give you so much else in terms. I mean,

I assume this guy's going to be the captain of the Ottawa senators at some point, not very long here. And obviously he gives you so much in the way of physicality and in the way of his compete level on the ice. I don't actually, I would not have a problem with this number for Brady Kachuk. Now, that's something we talked about last week with Donne Waddell, actually. I mean, do you want to be paying?

Just Barry Kotkinemi $6 million a year for one year? No, not necessarily. But, you know, if that sets him up to get a big deal next year, you're so much better off signing, signing those guys to that number now rather than waiting until they hit 29 or 30 or whatever it is and then giving them their seven, eight, eight and a half million dollar deal, right? Like, it's, you're, I, it's fascinating to me that, like, I think that's been a big part of this offseason is GMs being more open to getting guys on the come-up and in signing younger players to big number deals that allow them to, A, get to 28 or 29 before their next contract and B, sort of play out their prime. Maybe not at some super duper value number, but also it's something that still, that still kind of makes sense for both sides. Well, you look at his brother, right? Matthew signed a bridge.

I think it was three times seven. Yeah. And they're going to, they're going to get, they're going to take a bath on it. Yeah. They're going to blow past eight on Matthew's next deal. And so if you can lock Brady in at eight and it's going to go for eight years,

you know, I guess it costs you a little more in, in years one through three of it than maybe you could have gotten on a bridge. But it probably will save you some money on the back end there, right? I mean, the bummer here is that if Brady's in Ottawa long term, then we're not. How do we get them together?

How do we get Brady? Brady and Matt together, not just in Ottawa or Calgary or anywhere else. We need those dudes in an American city badly. We need them to play together and it needs to be in the U.S. And man, it's tough to turn down $64 million. But I don't know. I think Brady should think about the good of the squad here and try to get south at some point, right? You think Mike Sullivan just tries to bring him back with him in the car from the Olympics?

I can't, he, he, he's going to come out of, out of that, out of that tournament in love with both of these guys. Oh yeah. If he is, if he isn't already. Like, those guys check so many boxes for him. And I think he brought them up, you know, unprompted, right? Where, where he's, he's, he's talking about what, what maniacs, Matt and Brady are out on the, are out on, out on the ice. I mean, those dudes are, those dudes are Mike Sullivan players. I know we're, I know like we're, you're loathe to pencil in anybody, even though, even though we're doing these roster building, these roster building exercises or whatever.

I'm not. I'm not. I mean, yeah, we're, we're, we're, I think we're going to do like, try weekly, triweekly U.S. roster projections, right? But like, he came about as close just being like, yeah, Brady Chuck. Brady could chuck's on the team is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, he clearly loves them. And, you know, that's, that's kind of, that's kind of, that's kind of, that's kind of. That's kind of. to be expected. The other bit of news to pop up, you know, as it relates to American teams, I think, over the last couple days is this is, this is Mike Russo reporting naturally, of course. The Caprizov situation is not resolved. And we've been, we've been waiting for it for weeks and weeks and weeks and once and months and months. And, you know, here we are September 14th. And there's no, there's no resolution. And Bill Garin is telling Russo that things aren't going as planned. Well, and this is such a tough one because, you know, you've seen now the saga play out for, in Artemi Panarin, you've seen the saga play out for help me out here with some other guys who have kind of gone short out of these international deals and then they're not around as long as you like a community. And that's the, that's the way it's the way it works. You know, you're not, you're not going to get guys signed to the seven, eight, nine, nine year deal. That's just, that's just the way. But you feel for it because and, and I, and I tend to be.

here like I sympathize with the players a lot here because you don't have any choice of the organization you drafted into and so you know how long are you kind of owe that to them and that's obviously something that's been established in the CBA and and that's the players right um but I also think minis I feel so much for the fans in minnesota here because they waited so long for this guy he was everything they hoped for honestly probably a little more than they even could have hoped for and and now there's already kind of this tension and that doesn't mean it's not going to get results I mean, not someone who's writing this office. It's not, it can't have a happy ending for, for all parties here.

But it's, I've got family in Minnesota and like, you know, like one of them texted me the, when the, the first, you know, Russian team interest was coming out. And I feel for those guys, man. Well, it's not just that they've waited along for, waited along for Capriza, even though they did. Like that, yeah, he was, he was in the incubator for a while there and then shows up as is as good as, as good as expected. But like this is, my God,

they've been waiting for a player like that since peak, peak Marion Gabbrick, right? Like, like, you don't remember, I like, I don't know.

Like, you, you, you weren't around for, for him. It is, it is, it is,

it is best. But, I mean, we need, we need elite talent on the, on the, on the Minnesota wild. That makes our jobs easier.

It makes, it makes, it makes, it makes, it makes, it makes, it makes, it's,

what do you think, how about this? What do you, Because people have asked me nice in mailbags and stuff. Like, what do you think that deal should look like? Do you have like a, do you have like a, you know, sort of mind's eye, you know, vision of something that would look like they would be equitable for both sides? Because I feel like I kind of do. Assuming neither side is going to get fully what they want.

And for Minnesota that being obviously like seven or eight years and for Caprizov being a huge number on short years. Like something five or six times. Yeah, right. Five times eight. Yes, that seems perfectly reasonable. That seems like the magic number to me. Five times eight seems like the number that we're going to land on. And it's felt that way for a while.

And yet here we are, you know, it's September 14th. And Bill Garan's like, yeah, this hasn't gone the way I wanted it till. Now, if there's an issue from Minnesota, how many of those years in that five are you even without the buyout hit from Paris A and Souter at that point? Is it only, it's like one, right? Yeah. Yeah, because there's what, you stretch it out over. Yeah, you stretch the buyout over double. Yeah.

I mean that's that's that's that's that's removed i wonder i wonder if garen if he could go back and do it again like do you still do you still buy out ryan suiter i don't know like like maybe maybe you leave one of those guys on the books and don't and don't have that specter stretching over the body of a of a caprice of contract that was the weird one i mean from from the minute it happened now that was the that was the that was the weird one for Ryan Souter too. He was expecting, he was expecting, he was expecting that about as much as anybody else was. We knew, we knew, we knew Preezy was going to go down. Do you think Souter was for sure playing out that contract? I think he, he seems like a guy who would, who would certainly, who would certainly

like, look, the logic of that makes sense, right? Like, it was, there was that initial wave whenever it happened on Twitter where everybody was like, holy shit, like look, like, look at what they did. Look at how long these buyouts are, you know, whatever. But, I think it's a reasonable price to pay to avoid any, any potential for recapture. That's insane. Like the fact that that rule was on the books then and now is just, it's just, it's just wild to me.

Like retroactively punishing those contracts is just one of the, one of the craziest things that the league, that the league's ever pulled off. And like, Garen was, Garen was like rightfully terrified of it, clearly because Souter A is a, is a better player than,

than Preezy at this point in his career. And B, you know, seems like a best. better bet to play out this string. So yeah, I don't know though, man. Like it, it, it, it, it, it, it was never going to be a great situation. But, you know, again, here we are. We're, we're about to open training camp. And there's still, there's still, there's still no resolution on the, on the biggest, on the biggest moment of, of, of their off season. It's, uh, something. They're on a tough

spot. And, and if they do get it resolved with Caprizo, we know it's going to be a big number, no matter what the term is. And at that point, like, you're leaning, you're leaning really heavy on some of your prospects hitting and i really like matt boldie i think he's going to be really good marco rossi like you know hopefully he's he's back to what he um you know looked like as a draft eligible yeah you're better you're better you're better equipped than almost anybody to to talk about those guys i mean like those those those are the guys who whenever we were talking about jack ickel to minnesota which feels like it was you know five years ago those are the guys the boldies and the rossies that we were talking about as a you know as as as the bones

as the bones of a deal as the main elements that would be headed back to Buffalo. So what do you, what do you think of those two specifically? Well, you know, I didn't get to see Boldie a lot last year, but, you know,

I remember in his year at the program. He was, he was very much in that conversation with the Cole Coffields. And, and, you know, kind of beyond that Jack Hughes tier, you know,

but like Boldy, Zegris, Turcott, Caulfield, like, you know, I think most people by the end settled on, on Turcott and Zegris kind of ahead of the other two.

But like, when you're watching those guys in that year, you know, those guys were all absolute studs for the NTP. And Boldt has really done nothing to disprove that in his time since, like, in terms of his production at BC, in terms of, he was a pretty successful player in year one in the American hockey league. He's got a lot of what you're looking for, you know, at six foot two, you know, this is not a guy who you're going to worry about,

like, oh, is he going to be able to hang in the NHL? And he was already a point, more, better than a point per game player last year in the American League and was really good. at BC. So I don't know that Matt Boldy's in the NHL right away this year, but I don't think he's that far away. And as always, the question of Minnesota comes back to center. And that's where you really have to hope Marco Rossi can get back to what a lot of people thought he was going to be in his draft year. Obviously, he hardly played last year. And so you never know. But yeah, I mean, if he can be an answer to them, then suddenly for them, I should say, then suddenly

you start to get pretty interesting. You got Joel Ericksonac up front. If Rossi can be a goal scoring center for you, a playmaking center for you, then I think you're in business. If not, then the search for a center continues. And that's a real big, that's a real big search to have when you're in compete mode. And the Jack, the Jack Eichael update is, there is no update. Nothing's going to happen. We're going to keep having the same conversation. Do you think this is a Carlson, Eva training camp deal?

Or do you think that they're actually going to go into the season without resolution? I just hope. I hope it happens. I feel like we may have, we may have just spoken to the next man to be Jack Eichael's head coach. Is that possible? We just, we do, the Olympics. The next, the next game Jack Eichael plays will be, will be for Mike Sullivan. I didn't, like, you know, it's one of those things, you know, in our, in our talk with Mike there. Like, you don't, you don't want to get into specifics on on on on on on on on on on guys you know on roster building or whatever because that's going to make them clam up quicker quicker than anything but yeah I don't know I feel like I feel like there's a there's a non-zero chance that the next time we see

jack Eichael on on the ice he'll be he'll be playing for our he'll be playing for our guest here who again is uh Mike Sullivan head coach head coach of the u.s. Olympic team uh and that's that's coming up next it was it was a great interview. you and I think it's worth your time. We are joined by the head coach of the U.S. men's Olympic hockey team, Mike Sullivan. He's been on the job for all of. Mike, it's like three weeks now.

So you're well into your time is head coach. And I'm sure doing, I'm sure doing a ton of work. What's the, what's the process been like? And I don't know, how's this last few weeks gone since the announcement? It's been great. It's been real exciting. It's, you know, it's the honor of a lifetime, as I've said on more than one occasion, you know, when I got the call to be asked to be the head coach of the team. And so anytime I've had an opportunity to represent the United States and international competition, it's been such an honor and such a thrill, whether it be as a player or as a coach. And, you know, I've had the privilege of dueling both. over the years. But to be the head coach of the Olympic team on on on a world stage like that, um, for me is, uh, it's hard to articulate in words what it means to me. It's just, it's just such a great honor to, uh, to, to share in that experience with everyone. I mean, when did the work

start on your end officially? Like after after after after, after hearing the news? I mean, you, you, you have a staff now. That's, we, we couldn't, we've been at it for a little. We've been at it for a little while. behind the scenes and, you know, we put a coach and staff together that we all feel real comfortable with. These guys are all really smart guys. They're great hockey guys. They're passionate guys. They're guys that, I think, bring certain strengths to the table in different capacities. But the common denominator for me is these guys are just great people. They're smart guys and they're willing to work. You know, they're ready and eager to roll up their sleeves and go to work to try to help this team be successful.

So I'm excited to work with the group that we put together. You know, that's been in the works for a while now. We met as a coach and staff for about four days here in Pittsburgh. And we talked a lot of hockey and put a game playing together that we think is going to give us a chance to be successful. We talked about prioritizing how we're going to communicate, you know, with the eventual team. when it is picked and put together. And it's hard right now because we don't have a lot of logistical details. And so we're talking a lot of if-then scenarios and just trying to prepare ourselves for whatever

comes our way. But these guys are great guys. They're fun to work with. They're really smart hockey guys. I'm looking forward to going through the process with them. But we've been added here for a little while. We spent a great three or four days together and looking at a lot of video and talking a lot of hockey and putting the game plan together that hopefully will help this team be successful.

Yeah, I wanted to talk about those guys. Honestly, well, first off, they're three head coaches. You know, I know Todd's with you again now, but those are three guys with real, with real legitimate head coaching experience in the NHL between David Quinn, John Hines, Todd Reardon. I wanted to talk about them more, honestly. You said all three of those guys bring stuff to the table. what what do you David Quinn's a guy

who you've I mean we all know about your relationship with him but what does he what does he bring because I think you know he's a relatively I mean still relatively new head coach what kind of in the NHL what kind of what kind of stuff does he bring does he bring with the plate so Quinty's a guy as you know him and I

we're college teammates we go back a long way we've got a great relationship you know what I like about Quinney is is he has has head coaching experience. He has international experience. He knows the challenges of putting together a team for a short tournament like this and what the potential challenges are and how to overcome them. So he brings a lot of experience from that standpoint. I think Quinti brings a certain personality to our coaching staff that I think will be that will be really beneficial for our

group. As you guys know, I'm not the most warm and fuzzy guy in the world. And I think when he's a guy that I think is going to bring a real human element to our coaching staff. You know, he's a personable guy. I think his personality will resonate with the players. And he's just a smart hockey guy. He's got a good command of the strategy and the tactics of the game. He knows some of the players that are in play that potentially are going to be on this roster. So I think he brings a lot to the table for this group. Wait, so are we going to get Quinny Good Cop? Is that what happening? Is that what's happening running David? David Quinn Good cop? Yeah, that would be my guess. I don't know that any of us are going to be a bad cop in a two-week

tournament. That's for sure. But he's certainly a guy that I think is a personal guy. I think he relates with with players really well. I think in other words, I don't think it's going to take 20 long time to build relationships with these guys. And, and give these guys an opportunity to interact with our coaching staff. So I think that's an important aspect of our whole staff in general. And I mean, I think all these guys are, they're very personal guys, but we're all different, not personalities, right? And so I think Quinty brings a real human element to our staff that I think is going to help us.

Hey, Mike, just a quick one about Ryan Miller, fresh out of the NHL. I mean, what do you expect out of a coach, Ryan Miller? and what does he kind of bring to the equation here? Well, I think Ryan is a great addition to our staff. He's, you know, we talked about him extensively. And, you know, he doesn't have a lot of coaching experience in a two-week tournament, you know, how much real X's and O's coaching is going to take place, you know, as it relates to the goaltending position.

I shouldn't say X's nose. Maybe I should say technicalities. But obviously, Ryan is well-schooled in that stuff as well. But I think he can bring a certain perspective to our whole team, not to mention just our goaltenders. You know, having gone through with himself as a player, he's just removed as a player. I think he's going to bring a perspective to our coaches' meetings. When, you know, I can only speak on how I think. And I'm always asking myself the question, you know, I'm trying to put myself in the player's shoes all the time.

What's the players think? How are they going to react? you know, how should we approach a certain day or a certain challenge? And so we're always trying to put ourselves in the player's shoes and the player's perspective. Although we've all played, it seems like it was a million years ago that some of us were on the other side and, you know, in the dressing room as a player. And Ryan's a guy that was just there. And so he's going to bring that perspective to our coaching staff.

I think he's going to bring such great wisdom and experience to the goaltenders because he lived in himself and he can share those experiences. He can share what he went through and some of his challenges and what helped him have success. So I was really excited to add Ryan to our staff. He's a really good guy. I didn't know him very well. I got to meet him when we met as a staff a few weeks ago, but I'm really excited that he's part of our staff. Yeah, how much that was just about getting him in the fold? You're like, okay, Ryan Miller's available. Let's find something for him to do, honestly. You just want him around. Yeah, he's, he's a real good person. He's had such an accomplished career. You know, he was a tremendous goalie himself. And, and, and, you know,

if I'm, if I'm not mistaken, you know, I think Ryan reached out to John Van Bsbrook in, in looking to help in any way, shape, or form. You know, he's a passionate guy. He loves the game, wants to be around it. And it just kind of evolved from there. So it's, we're, we're, We're fortunate to have a guy like that, you know, that is just removed from playing and that can bring that certain perspective than his experiences to the table. Yeah, he said that does, honestly, like right after, you know, the retirement announcement. Like, he was like, yeah, I'm going to try to get into something. Like, he was, he was definitely, he was definitely interested straight off the bat. So I wasn't, wasn't surprised at him be a part of the group there.

I mean, you, you talked about him being so, so close to the game still and whatever. he's six months removed from being on a roster. I mean, you have, you have experience with that yourself. You transitioned quickly from being a player to the coaching and the things. And not for nothing with a really good, with like a great generation of American players. So what was that experience like for you as a young coach who,

you know, kind of like Ryan's doing right now, right? Where he went from, he's going from guys that he played against a few months ago to now, to now kind of leading them on that. And what was that experience like for you? And I mean, because you're, you know, you said it was a while ago, but it wasn't that long. Yeah, it was, it was a great experience.

You know, I was, as you mentioned, I was a young coach at the time. I was learning on the job, so to speak. You know, it's, it's interesting because, you know, I think there's an assumption that just, you know, just because a player played the game, that it's just a natural evolution to become a coach. And although I think it certainly is a huge benefit to have played the game, you know, the coaching skill set or the coaching craft is a whole different ballgame. And it takes a lot of work to be good at it. And so there are so many good coaches in the game.

Some of them are former players. Some of them aren't. They're just, they're great students of the game. And they have an ability to communicate. thoughts and concepts and, and they have great analytical minds and, and they're, they're good leaders. They, they, they can motivate and inspire people. And so I was, I was, I was, I was learning the coaching craft at that particular time and then to have the opportunity to, you know, to be an assistant coach at the Olympics in Torino and now and behind the bench with players that, that,

that I looked up to in my generation that were, that were way better than I ever was as a player, you know, and I coached, I handled the defense. Labby was running the forwards at the time. And I'm coaching guys like Chris Chelyos and Dary and Hatcher, these guys that I looked up to as, you know, these are the best players of my generation. And I was so impressed with their professionalism, you know, because I wasn't sure how they were going to react to a young coach like myself.

But I walked away from that experience with so. much respect, even more respect than I had for those guys because I didn't really know them personally until I went over there and spent a few weeks with them at the Olympics in Torino. But I walked away from that experience with so much respect for those guys and just their professionalism and their competitiveness and their, you know, their drive to be the best and want to win. And Chelyos was a guy for me that I really didn't know it all. And I was just blown away by his competitiveness and his professionalism throughout that experience.

He was like an extension of our coaching staff when I was there. And so that's how that experience went for me. It was an unbelievable experience. I was a young coach at the time. You know, this experience, you know, I anticipate to be a whole lot different because now I've got, you know, I don't know how many years now of coaching experience under my best. and I'm surrounded with some really good coaches as well. So, but, but I can't say enough about those guys in the experience that I went through with him.

Are you ready for the Chelly on ESPN experience? You ready for him to do TV? It sounds like he's going to be doing a lot. Yeah, I think he'll be great, you know. I don't think he's going to mince words, you know. I think that's, and I think, I think that's going to resonate with people, which, which always makes for entertainment, right? So Keith Kach was one of the guys who was on that O6 Olympic team that you coached.

and obviously teammates with him back in Phoenix. What do you think will be a stranger experience? Coaching Keith, who you played with or coaching his sons potentially at these Olympics? Yeah, that's a great question. You know, Walt and I go back a long way. You know, we spent a bunch of years together in Phoenix, and he was such a great player himself. His kids are terrific players as well.

You know, they're big personalities. Like my father always said, they don't grow up like the neighbors. You know, I think his kids are a chip off the old block. You know, they're big personalities and as was Walt as well. They certainly bring a certain swagger to the table. They make everybody on the bench about six inches taller, that's for sure. You got to deal with them again this year. You got to avoid them because the schedule last year.

You got to deal with Matt and Brady out there running around. I get the odd phone call from Walt when I'm when I'm, when I'm traveling. I got a call from in Calgary a few years ago. We were playing there. And he was scouting at the time, you know, and he called me after the game. It was like midnight. I was in my hotel room breaking the game film down, you know.

And he wanted him to meet me and have a beer and catch up and talk. But he's just a terrific family. You know, they're great people. They're just a great hockey family. They're passionate. And so it will be interesting, that's for sure. You know, we have so many great players. You know, one of the things that's really excited, our coaching staff is we started to look at the player pool and the talent pool that's available to make this team.

And it's deep. It's really deep. I think it speaks volumes for how far hockey has come in the United States. And once again, I tip my head. I think it starts at the grassroots level and all the volunteers across the country and the environment that these people are trying to create for these kids to participate and grow up in the sport. And, you know, when you look at some of the kids that are, have come out of that,

and that's the makeup of this player pool. And some of them are from, you know, the non-traditional markets, you know, they're not necessarily the hockey hotbeds like Massachusetts and Minnesota that, that, that I guess was my generation. You know, they're coming from all across the country now. I think the NHL and the expansion has a lot to do with that and just the impact. But the volunteers that I think that put their time in all the time for USA hockey to help these kids grow and develop along the way. You know, we're fortunate enough and privileged to get the finished product at the end of it.

But I think it's important that we mention these guys and the importance. of that aspect of it. You brought it up. Are you doing back a napkin lineup work here? Like, can we, can we go through? Who's the, who's the third center on this team? Let's, let's break some news. Well, you guys, I knew you guys would go there.

It wasn't us. You brought it up. We were ready to just let it slide. I brought up the, I brought up the, how impressive the group is and how deep it is. And the challenge is, what I will tell you. There's some very tough decisions, yes. Yes, that's what I'll, that's what I will tell you is that there's going to be some really difficult decisions. And I think that's, you know, from our standpoint, that that's a good thing that we have,

the talent pool is that deep. And there are a lot of players to choose from. There are a lot of really good American players that have built a body of work in the NHL and are deserving to be in the conversation. And we have so much respect for all of them. Obviously, not all of them are going to make the team, but we're excited about the group that we have. And we're looking forward to those conversations. Some of the guys, I mean, there's no way around it. Some of the guys in that discussion are on your roster. So how's that something you're going to have to balance the decisions on the Jake Gensel's

and the Brian Rusts and the Brian Dumlins of the. of the world. Yeah, you know, I've got a good relationship with those guys. And for me, it'll be, you know, I'll be transparent with them like I always say. You know, and, you know, these guys are are real good players and, and they've been great players for us here in Pittsburgh. They're, their Stanley Cup champions. They know how to win. And so, you know, you can never have enough of those types on your team, right? And, and so they're three players that have really built an impressive body of work and their time here in Pittsburgh. But, you know, I'm excited for them that they're in the conversation.

And but I will communicate with those guys and have an honest conversation with them and, you know, as it goes along the way. But, you know, we're excited about those players. They're certainly really good players for us here in Pittsburgh. I think one of the reasons people in the U.S. are so excited for this tournament is because of what the overall collection of talent is going to look like, like you were just talking about. I mean, when you start looking at how everything could set up, even if we're not going to say exactly how it'll set up today, is there a group for you that stands out as the bar, as the best collection of U.S. talent ever?

And what is the potential of this group? Yeah, I think when you look back at the cellioses, you know, the Ciches, the Darien Hatcher, Brian Leach, Doug Waite, Mike McDonnell, Billy Garon, you know, that generation, Brett Howl was part of that. I'm trying to think, I, you know, I don't want to leave anybody else because I don't want to be disrespectful to those guys. But that era, that era in my mind was so good. And those guys, they carried the torch for a long time. And they were such an accomplished group of players so driven, so competitive. and for me, they're the standard bearers.

I think they just represented our nation, you know, in so many different tournaments. And we're just so ultra-competitive. And so for me, they're the standard bears. I think this group has the potential to live up to that. You know, there's a lot of young, exciting players here that are evolving. and I think there's a lot of potential there. So I'm excited about the conversations that we're going to have here moving forward, and I'm excited about potentially what this team might look like.

What's kind of the biggest strength as you look at it right now? Like, is there an area of the team that you're saying this can be kind of our, what we lean on here when things get tough, whether it's the forwards or some of those young D and anything in net, obviously? Well, that's a good question. You know, you guys, I'm sure have had that conversation as well. You know, it's, I'm not sure what the biggest strength is. You know, I think we've got some dynamic forwards.

You know, I think the goaltending position is really strong and deep. You know, look at the group of defensemen that's there. You know, there's probably 14 deep of, you know, 12 deep. You know, if you start to go through the group of defensemen that potentially could make this team. could be even more. There's a lot of real good players at all the positions. And so that's going to be our challenge. We're going to, it's going to be a lot of fun, I think, trying to put the best possible team together.

And I say that because I think that's going to be the biggest challenge is to figure out how to become a team in short order. And because, you know, I'm fairly confident that there's a few countries that are going to have. a lot of talent on their roster and talent doesn't win gold medals, right? Great team. So I think something that fascinates me about your job is getting, is getting guys to play roles that deviate from their typical NHL roles, you know? You're going to be maybe asking a top six winger to drop down and kill penalties or, you know, kind of change, change the role that he's gotten accustomed to.

Is that something, is that something you're ready for? Because I know that's such a big thing for you on a day. day basis, right, is having guys do their job and fulfill the kind of duties that you expect from them. But that's easier over the course of an 82 game schedule rather than having, you know, a star player drop in and do something that he's maybe a little bit less accustomed to doing. Like, is that part of the thought process? Sure it is. You know, we have that conversation as a coach and staff when we met as a group. And, you know, I think it's one of the most important jobs as a head coach.

you know, regardless of what team you're coaching is to steer the identity of the group, shape the identity of the group. In other words, what's our competitive advantage? What are we good at? How do we play to our strengths? And then implement a game plan that allows us to do that. And then cast players in certain roles that help them understand what the expectation is so that they know what they can hang their hat on.

is my contribution to helping this team win. And that's not to say we're going to pigeonhole guys in certain spots and they can't grow into something bigger or better, right? But it is important that players understand why they're on the roster and what their strength is, what they're bringing to the table, what their contribution is to helping the team win. And we talk about that in Pittsburgh all the time. I have those conversations with our players, you know, daily. And sometimes players need to be reminded.

of those, you know, of those, of those core competencies and why they're on the roster. And so I really think that's one of my most important jobs as the head coach. And so, and then, then it's, there's a player's responsibility to embrace that, right? They need to embrace that challenge. They need to be accepting of roles and they need to embrace that role. They need to get excited about. You know, not everybody's going to play in the power play. And when you look at, when you look at this, this group of players that, that, that,

will inevitably be assembled to make up, you know, the Olympic team, there's a fair amount of them. I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that they're playing on their power plays and their respective L-Tel teams, right? But not everybody's going to play in the power play in the Olympics. And they need to be okay with that. I think that's going to be a huge part of becoming the team that we need to become. And so that's a conversation that we'll have, I think, fairly often with the group. Fairly often and fairly early, I would imagine, right?

That's got to be a day one thing where you set the expectations and kind of go from there. For sure. I think it's one of my most important job. Mike, that was great. Yeah, I mean, if there's Max, I don't know if there's anything you want to finish up on, but yeah. No, that's all good for me. That's great. I really appreciate it, Mike.

Sure, my pleasure, guys. Maxie. That was great stuff from Mike Sullivan. I love hearing I love hearing Kachuk stories. I feel like we could have just gotten them rolling and gotten, you know, a half hour more of Chris Chelyos

and Keith Kachuk stories. I think the move is we now have a double guest thing we need to book with Mike and Keith Kachuk for a future episode. Maybe that's in August next year when they're a little less busy and we just have, maybe maybe this is an 11 p.m. deal

and we just get it rolling and see what happens. Yeah. great stuff as expected from Mike Sullivan. All right, we're back. Big news on Monday was that Steve McCarthy has replaced Sylvan Lefebvre as an assistant on the Columbus Blue Jackets. Lefebvre is out because he elected not to receive the COVID-19 vaccine. So, Maxie, we're seeing, we're seeing repercussions already for, for, for

organizations, for players, for coaches that aren't in on the protocol. And it was still, I, you know, I kind of mentioned this whenever we talked to, whenever we talked to Mike a couple, a couple minutes ago. Don Waddell was really great last week. Obviously, he's, he's the president of hockey ops with the, with the hurricanes, runs a lot of their business stuff. And he volunteered just straight away, like, yeah, we expect to be at 100% on, on vaccination among the teams. And also among the players. And also specifically, he saw a major uptick after the NHL COVID-19 protocol dropped, right, where we see these, you know, serious deserving penalties for guys who aren't vaccinated and test positive and whatever. The upshot of it is, you know, they're making, they're making

life as complicated as possible for people who aren't vaccinated, which is, which is fine. That's the, that's that's the way it should be from you know a societal a societal standpoint on on one hand and also as a as a as a you know from a from a team building you know NHL franchise standpoint too you just you you can't have that risk out there and I think sylvin lafave you know he's he's the first but I would I don't think he's going to be the last like we're we're about to see another split kind of happen as camps open up and we're about to see, you know, teams really put their money where their mouth is when it comes to, you know, taking this stuff as seriously as possible and also eliminating any possibility for outbreaks and or suspensions and or anything else. So I

thought that was, I thought that was wild to see on Monday. It was. And stories like that are going to get the headline. It's going to be the guy who is not in the 100% right, because that's, That's the news story here. But I also think kind of the subhead here is that there's not going to be nearly as many headlines or nearly as many numbers of that as there are at the rest of society. I think it really speaks to NHL players and coaches. And this point was made a lot with the NFL as their season got up and running. Like it's a great way to be a good teammate to have this stuff and get it taken care of. And I think that that kind of speaks the language of pro athletes.

And it certainly applies the rest of society too. Like we are in, you know, a lot of ways. We don't have affiliations to each other quite so formally. All right. But we are very much all teammates there, right? I mean, think about the Hurricanes roster. Like, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to go down the list. And you're like, oh, okay.

They're at 100% or they're going to be there. They're going to be there very soon. That says a lot, you know, to how seriously teams are taking this. Between that and the fact that we just saw a coach get dumped on the eve of training camp. Like this is this is this a is no joke and B teams are teams aren't treating it as a joke. So honestly, it's it's nice to see. Yeah, good on them. For me, I, you know, one of the things that jumps out to me this week is, is Ryan Kessler and story

in NHL.com. Kessler basically says he understands and is aware that his NHL career is over. He actually, there's a quote in there where he says, my body age is like 80, which is, you know, it's a reminder of of the pounding that these guys take and the grind that it's, takes it. Yes, it is a game. It is probably one of the most fun jobs I can conceive of, but they pay a physical price to do it. And so Kessler is going to be a volunteer coach at the NTDP. And I think that's a great move for him. He's obviously from Livonia, from not quite my neck of the woods, but only about 20 minutes. It's close enough. Yeah, 20 minutes west of me.

Pete Kessler, he was, he was something else. The, the injury started to stack for him so early too, right? Like he had major, major hip stuff. I think we're, look, nobody in Vancouver is ever going to forget how good those teams were at the start at the start of the 2010s, right? Like, that's always going to be a discussion point. But I think if you're, you know, a U.S.-based fan maybe and someone who isn't in the, isn't in the NHL media, you know, ecosystem, those are some unbelievable teams that are, you know, they've aged out. We've, We've seen those guys over the last years, whether it's, whether it's Luongo, whether it's Kessler, whether it's BXO, whether it's, you know, Alex Edler or Alex Burroughs.

Like the guys who were the bones of those teams, they're on their way out, right? And that was an unbelievable group, you know, of talent that, you know, just whatever. 2011 was the peak against the Bruns. It didn't work out. But, man, they were, they were a blast to watch. And he was specifically. So yeah, happy shows to him. You're going to see, you're going to see him around, right?

Like, he'll be, he'll be kicking, kicking around various spots in Plymouth, yeah. Yep. And obviously, working with a lot of the players who are going to be pretty prominent in these next two drafts, I would imagine, you know, the talent, the NTT right now is pretty amazing, as it often is. But, you know, I don't, it's obviously, there's probably never going to be another year quite like 2019 again. but there's some really, really interesting kids at the NTP this year. If you're in a position to watch them, I would recommend that. What's up for you this week, man? And we're back in the swing of things.

This is my first day back from vacation. I'm operating in like 75% capacity, but you have a full week, right? Is Traverse City, when is it? Yeah, Thursday. So I go up there Thursday, and that's a long weekend tournament. So I'll go up Wednesday night, actually, is when I'll get there. and then back Monday and then back up the Traverse City again on Wednesday night to get ready for actual Red Wing Strain in camp. So, yeah, the grind is very much about to hit in full gear out here.

Wait, so do we have a remote taping location for the Friday episode with you and Corey Promen? Corey's going to be there. Oh, that would be, I don't know if I was supposed to say, announce ahead of time that we were going to be actually on site together. There you go, buddy. We won't. There it is. It's a freaking news. You guys can sit at some weird table in a side room and talk about this stuff in person.

Yeah, no, I'm fired up for it. It'll be really fun. And obviously, I will watch hockey with Corey any chance I get because then it's like I actually like retain about four times as much as I do when I watch it by myself. He makes everybody a lot smarter as much as it's so smart as much as it pains me to say. It's a good time to subscribe. It's a good time to subscribe to the athletic. It's a good time to subscribe to the show. We're ramping up into regular season mode very, very quickly here at the Athletic Hockey Show.

Always got Mendez and Down Goes Brown on Thursdays. We've got Max and Corey on Friday. We, of course, have Ian and Haley on Monday. So, ramping up on the pod, ramping up on the site. There's no better time than now. We're glad to have you all here with us. We appreciate you listen to the Athletic Hockey Show. You can follow us on your favorite podcast platform.

Leave us a nice rating and review. but he always appreciates that. Me and Craig, Craig specifically, we're always in the comments on the show, taking stuff way too seriously to heart. We got our list of ban phrases. I think we need to update that before the start of the season. All that fun stuff.

You can subscribe to the Athletic Audio Plus on Apple Podcasts, specifically that gets you some bonus content from our whole network. It's not just hockey. It's for the NFL show and for college football. It's a great time, great time to be a sports fan. Great time to be a hot. hockey fan. It's a great time to subscribe to all our stuff here at The Athletic Audio. You can start with a 30-day free trial, and that's for Audio Plus and Apple Podcast. This is 99 cents a month

after that. Also, if you're not a subscriber to the site, annual subscriptions are 50% off still. I don't know how long that's going to last, but it's still rolling. You can get that off when you visit theathletic.com slash hockey show. Max, my boy. This was wonderful. Thank you for doing it. This was great. Thanks for having me. It's good to see it.

Good to see the state of the hair right now. The state of the hair is electric. I had to get a cut. It was well down past my shoulders. It was repulsive. Important people in my life were telling me to get it together. Craig was certainly very upset by it. Also, for the record, Custin supposedly will be back next week, but I wouldn't.

I wouldn't hold my breath. Thank you guys for listening. And we'll see you next week.