The Athletic Hockey Show - Mock Draft Season is officially underway, 2023 NHL Draft Lottery recap, Scott Powers talks Connor Bedard and the Chicago Blackhawks, and more

Episode Date: May 12, 2023

On this week’s loaded Prospect Series episode of The Athletic Hockey Show, Max, Corey, and FloHockey’s Chris Peters break down the results of the 2023 NHL Draft Lottery, including the Chicago Blackhawks securing the No. 1 pick and the chance to draft Connor Bedard, the Anaheim Ducks likely taking Adam Fantilli with the No. 2 pick, and the Columbus Blue Jackets with a number of options at No. 3, and the guys compare Corey’s and Chris’s first mock drafts since the ping pong balls were chosen.Plus, The Athletic’s own Scott Powers joins the guys to talk about what Connor Bedard will mean to the Chicago Blackhawks in the near future, how his arrival will change the timeline on their rebuild, potential linemates for No. 98, and more.Subscribe to The Athletic Hockey Show on YouTube: http://youtube.com/@theathletichockeyshowGet a 1-year subscription to The Athletic for just $1 a month when you visit http://theathletic.com/hockeyshowRight now, Nuts.com is offering new customers a free gift with purchase and free shipping on orders of $29 or more at http://Nuts.com/hockey23 Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the Athletic Hockey Show Prospect Series. Hey, everybody. Max Pullman here alongside Corey Pranman and Chris Peters of Flow Hockey for another episode of the Athletic Hockey Show's Prospect Series. And gentlemen, we have a draft order. Chicago Blackhawks are going to pick number one in the Connor Bedard draft. Very likely, we think almost shurdily we'll pick Connor Bedard. Anaheim wins the second pick, and they're going to have a decision to make Hulumbus falls to three. Everything else, pretty much, as expected. But, you know, the people have gotten Corey and I's live reaction to this, Chris.

Let's start with you here. What were your first thoughts when you saw that card flip over, those cards flip over in Chicago and Anaheim on top? Yeah, stunned, really. I mean, you know, I think that the Blackhawks, I didn't anticipate them moving up, you know, but that's the way the lottery goes. It's not supposed to be predictable. It's not supposed to be locked, anything locked into place. But, you know, to see that and certainly, you know, the crazy,

of moving on the same year they move on from Patrick Kane is the year they get the next number one pick and the fact that Connor Bedard might end up have, you know, could be better than Patrick Kane if he hits on all of his projections is pretty insane. You know, and obviously I think you looked at the reaction throughout. If there was one team that no one else wanted to have the number one pick, it was basically the entire NHL said, I'm fine, you know, if Columbus gets it, that's awesome. If Anaheim gets it, great. just not Chicago. And then they get it.

And so that was, that was interesting to kind of watch that all play, play out. Obviously, we had the little flub on the TV broadcast that made things a little weird there, which kind of heightened the tension in some weird way, even though we kind of spoiled,

it spoiled it. But then at the same time, it's like, oh, it's Anaheim or Chicago. And now we're down to the last two. We know, go through a whole commercial break. Was that a mistake that actually happened?

And then they flipped the cards. and Chicago gets it. So pretty insane. And, you know, obviously now you get Conor Bidard in an American market and one of the largest media markets in the country. You know, people certainly say, oh, well, it's rigged, but it's not. And that's, to me, I think, you know, potentially it's, you know, nobody's happy that it's the Blackhawks, but it's probably a net positive for the NHL that you've got Conor Bidard in a large American market. I thought Laz did an interesting article a couple days ago, like kind of trying to tamper. down the Badaard hype a little bit. I think it's,

I think it's always a fair thing to write about a kid who has yet to play one NHL game. You know, we're talking here, you know, Chris is saying things like, and I don't think it's unfair, like if he hits,

he could be better than Patrick Kane, but Patrick Cade has had a hell of a career. Yeah. So far, three Stanley Cups. And, you know, I see the arguments that,

you know, maybe you compare, say they're world juniors to one another. It would be, you know, in terms of, you know, obviously, Pidharth, nearly a full year younger at the same point as Patrick Kane, and they're still putting up the same level incredible offense in the CHL. I get that argument, too. But I think there's also fair to look at number ones we thought would be high impact guys,

whether it was Alexei Lefrenier, whether it was Nail Yakupov or others over the years and maybe not, you know, say this guy is for sure going to win in a hard. Art Trophy or an Art Ross trophy. It's, it's, uh, because I think sometimes we can get a little bit ahead of ourselves with this stuff. I, I agree. I think that was a great point. And I think an important one for people here is, I was getting texts from, from friends,

like, hey, you know, should I get back in on the Blackhawks here now? And, you know, I think if you go into this Connor Boudard era, expecting him to be one of the five or ten best players of all time, I think you can make an argument. Patrick Kane is, uh, the best American player of all. time. It's hard to live up to that. And so I think, I thought it was a pretty responsible column by Laz. I like that he did it. Yeah. I mean, I think if he's, I think if he's as good as Jack Hughes, you have to be thrilled, I think. This is a, this is a heart trophy candidate right now. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, if he's putting up 100-point seasons. Yeah, yeah. I mean,

and you've, right now, we're, we're throwing on the brakes here pretty hard. I think we're throwing them on too hard, honestly. I mean, like, you know, let's let's let's let's put let's break it down. I mean, this is one of the best junior hockey seasons we've ever seen, not saying that that automatically translates to the NHL. I mean, we're talking about a 71 goal score as a, as a 17 year old player, a guy that had 50 at 16. We have a record setting world junior championship. Yes, there are absolutely reasons that things can go wrong. Injuries happen. You, you, up in the wrong situation. Chicago doesn't build around him properly. He doesn't, you know, he has a terrible experience his first year. Anything can happen in between now and then. But I think in terms

of overall projection and looking at what we're, you know, if we're talking about guys that we've been tracking, I mean, Corey, where does he rank among the guys since the McDavid draft? It's got to be right next to McDavid, does it not? Yeah, well, we did an article on that last week where we actually pulled NHL scouts about that and they, he was the second number one pick in that conversation behind McDavid. Most of the scouts I talked to felt it was a debate between him and Austin Matthews at the same age. True, true. Some thought it was, one thought it was close between him and Jack Hughes.

One thought it actually was close between him and McDavid. But most felt he was the second or the third best number one pick of the last 10 years. And that was ahead of Jack Hughes. head of rest of Dosteldian guys who have become legit stars in the NHL. But, but, and we think, yeah, I think the dart is going to become a star in the NHL. I think he's going to become an impact player, a guy who can change, uh, the timeline of a rebuild in Chicago, but he's also hasn't played one NHL game yet.

So there are risks that come with that. And I don't think Corey and I are saying, like, you know, if he hits, if he's better than Jack Hughes, like that's like what, you know, the, the potential is. It's that, you know, if he's, good as Jack Hughes, like that's a success, very successful number one overall pick, right? Absolutely. Yeah, I would say that's totally fair. I mean, and I think it just, yeah, absolutely.

That, that to me is where, you know, he probably, he's probably going to be somewhere between there and Connor McDavid, right? You know, like, I don't, we, I don't know, they had a video package at the beginning of that draft that said skates like McDavid, scores like or shoots like Matthews and I, my head almost. But do you think he skates like McDavid? Like I, no, he doesn't. Yeah, he doesn't.

Like that, that was the thing that bothers me is that we're saying that he is the hybrid of the two best players, two of the best players in the NHL. You put him together and that's him. No, that's, so that's clearly off, you know, off the reservation. But yeah. My only issue with the bad darn hype isn't, like, if you want to say he's one of the two to three best prospects in the last 10 years, like, go ahead. That's absolutely a reasonable conversation to have comparing the math, compared to Ikel, Dahlene, Jack Hughes. You can put them ahead of all those guys, frankly. I think it's perfectly reasonable.

When I, when I, kind of my eye twitches when I hear the generational tag sometimes because like that to me means Sidney Crosby. That to me means Eric Lindross. That to me means Carter McDavid. And I don't, I have not seen that. I'm not saying it's not far off, but I have not seen that personally. Like I, Connor McDavid was a freak of nature. He was a perfect hockey player at the age of 17.

there was and I just I I I'm not saying that to like kind of like be a party pooper when it comes to badard I just when I see all this generation I'll talk I worry he's going to have just a 50 or a 60 point season next year and and people are going to be underwhelmed by that yeah and honestly his first year I think is going to be really difficult because let's face it Chicago has nothing like I mean there is not a lot there to help him out right now sure there's There's a trade off to that, though, right? Because every power play the puck's going to be on his stick. For sure, for sure.

Like, he's going to get plenty of opportunities. He's going to play big minutes. You know, he's going to have to be the guy. They're going to have to find ways to insulate him a little bit so that he doesn't have to be the guy and the team, the guy that the guy that everybody's keying on when they're playing the Blackhawks. But, you know, that's going to be something for the off season. And now it really, you know, when we talk about it later, something that Kyle Davidson and his group has to figure out. because you have one job now, and that is to make sure that Connor Bedard hits on all these lofty projections. You have to make sure that this is a cannot miss, cannot fail, guy that's going to be the centerpiece of your team.

And it starts next year. And it's going to be hard because I think of all the teams that were available to Bedard in the lottery range, I feel like Chicago has the furthest to go of all of them based on what they did last off season and into this season, moving on from Kane and Taylor. So when you talk about that, I've got the free agent class pulled up in front of me here. And ironically, the two top names on it because it's sorted by Caput or Patrick Kane and Jonathan Taves. But when I look down the list, there's a couple of names that I think stand out to me. The first one is Jason Zucker because this is a guy who's coming out of playing with

Sidney Crosby and Evgeny Malkin. And I think if you're going to go looking for people to surround Connor Bedard with, that is not a bad perspective to potentially, you know, have around and in terms of to have who can talk to him, who can play with him, who's used to, you know, playing with guys who see the game like that. I wonder if that's not a really, you know, appealing target potentially. And I like the way he would play, too, kind of the hardness in his game, going to the course, get the pucks out, be a guy, could maybe be a net front guy in the power play. Yeah, so I think that.

I see Ryan O'Reilly. I mean, Chris, what do you think of these? Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think you have to, if you're Chicago, you have to be looking at overpaying for certain guys and you have the cap space to do it. You have the timeline to do it because you are not, let's face it, the Chicago Blackhawks are not going to make the playoffs next year. You know, they very well could be in the lottery again next year and talking, you know, shooting for Macklin-Cellabrini for the two-for here, which would really upset people.

But, you know, I think that for them absolutely, guys like that, Ryan O'Reilly, guys that you can have that are going to just provide some cushion and allow. And guys like, especially like O'Reilly, that's a, that's a, player and Zooker is I think that's such a great call guys like that that that heaviness in their game they can show him you know he's never going to be that that heaviness you know he but he is going to he's going to benefit from seeing how those guys operate he's not heavy but he has a bit of an edge in his game like he does pushed over he could retrieve for badard no doubt yeah yeah well yeah and connor Connor is a really good like he he's got a little bit

of fire as corey said like in his lower body he's really put a lot of emphasis on and he's hard to knock off pucks and he's so you know but he's going to be able to you know have guys that can help him you know just protect him a little bit not and i'm not meaning like fighting or hitting or anything it's more just he just needs to have that cushion because there is so there is such a dearth of talent right now on that roster with all due respect you know there are going to be some young guys that are coming and there's guys like seth jones and connor murphy who i think are very effective veteran players um but there's just just not a lot of that. And so, yeah, so it's going to be interesting to see what they do. And I think

that this, you have to be looking kind of in your short term plan and your long term plan. I think a lot of these guys that we're talking about, you want to have short term contracts. Maybe it's a little bit more expensive than you would normally pay, but it's something just to make sure that Connor Bidar is not on an island here. Yeah, and it's a good point. I mean, this is a guy who's barely 5 foot 10, 1885 pounds. He's going to have a target on his back every single night. Yep. We're going to have Scott Powers on in just a second.

We're going to pick up on this conversation on the Blackhawks. But let's move to the team that gets the number two pick here. Anaheim gets Adam Fantilli. Corey, we talked in the live stream about the options this gives them. Potentially, you're deciding between do you want to run your top three-line centers as Zegris Fantilli-Mittavish, which is absolutely menacing? Or do you want to potentially flex, you know, Zegress out to the wing at some point? And I think that's a dynamic top line, potentially, for Anaheim, really sets

them up into just one of the most desirable situations in the NHL, I think. Right. It's not just those forwards and those three forwards. And I'll touch on Fantillion a second. Let's presume it is Fantilli for a second. Those three forwards would be absolutely exceptional prospects. But, you know, they didn't have Jamie Drysdale all season because of an injury. You know, I'd be really curious to see what their team looks like when we have a year older, healthier Jamie Drysdale. Pavl Minchikov, maybe a year or two away. They have with Mitchikov two other defensemen of the year.

They're in the Q of the JHL leagues, all in Zellweger and Tristan Luno. You can have reasonable debates on how high caliber those two prospects are. Luno is skating, Zellweger's size being the deficiencies there, but they're both very good prospects. So I think there is an exciting group of players coming up in Anaheim. And then a smaller NHL market, this is the way they need to build, which is through the draft and developing their own core.

That's how they did it with their previous Stanley Cup champion. And I think you're seeing a foundation here with this number two pick that could be that next core. But let's touch on maybe who that number two pick is going to be. Because, well, I think the likely to the very likely scenario is that it's Adam Fantilli. I don't think it's a 100% lock that's the pick. I think you can talk to people in the league that think Will Smith is in that conversation. that frankly, I think, and more frankly, who think Leo Carlson is in that conversation. And I think you're going to have now over the next couple of weeks, both Adam Fantilli and

Leo Carlson playing at the men's world championships. And I think that would be a very interesting measuring stick. One that we really haven't seen at the men's world championships that high in the draft since the Austin Matthews Patrick Linae World Championships, 2016, where they were both absolutely incredible. Yeah. And that did shift the debate after that a little bit more. You know, there was a lot. There was like, there was some doubt. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So, so there was all of a sudden some doubt about, you know, is Austin Matthews the luck to go number one. I mean, Linae was just unbelievable in the playoffs and then the tournament. Just incredible. And to Corey's point, too, you know, as you look at what the ducks have built and the young core that they have and the guys that they have. And it allows them that flexibility. to, you know, kind of look and take, take all angles. Who is the player that's going to best fit what they do? I personally still think it's Fantilli.

I think he's got the speed, the physicality. You know, he can kind of take some of the brunt of the offensive weight off of guys like Zegris and Terry. You know, you also have him plus McTavish. That's just a handful for years to come. Guys that can play play playoff brand hockey because they have that physical edge. They have, you know, the, the, the, the, the, the, power in their games as well.

And then on top of that, they have the offensive potential. But I think that the thing, you know, you look at guys like Leo Carlson, you look at Will Smith and you say, you know, they think the game at a pretty high level. They think it at a high level. The other thing that I also was thinking about, and I don't think this would happen with Anaheim, but at the same time is like because of all that young talent, is it completely out of the question to consider Matt Veimichkov at that point and say, hey, we've got our young core.

Can we wait? I don't know. I mean, it's, it's not. not out of the realm of possibility. I mean, I still think that Mitchkov is one of the best players in this draft. And, you know, if you're a team like that, that you start to have your young foundation, you can add a potential superstar winger to that group. I mean, it's not out of the, to me, it's not out of the question, but I think they're going to go center.

I think it will most likely be Fantilli. And that's, you know, that's probably the best path forward for that franchise. For me, with the World Championships thing, it would. I think have to take a distinct difference in terms of how the two players look there. If Carlson's just a little bit better, I think you still look at the track record, the toolkit. All those things are in Fantilli's favor and you go that way. But if Carlson is notably better over the next couple of weeks, I think that makes the debate a little bit more interesting.

To me, who the GM here is comes into this because Pat Verbeek was famously the little ball of hate. He comes from these Steve Eisenman front offices where compete is. highly valuable. I'm not saying Leo Carlson is not a competitor, but I think when you see the edge that Adam Fantilli plays with, I have a hard time seeing Pat Verbeek seeing that and saying, no, thanks, I'll go a different direction. That's fair. But the fact that there could be a debate is actually very good news for the team in the three spot, which is Columbus. Whether it is, as Chris says, could be Mavimichkov, who has an argument on talent as the guy there, whether it's Leo Carlson or maybe Adam Fantilli or whether it's Will Smith.

I know Blue Jackets fans are probably extremely disappointed right now, and I think they have every right to be. But they're going to get a really good player, albeit not the maybe quite franchise changer that they might have hoped, but it's still a really good situation here, Corey, for Columbus. Right. And I think there is hope that this team is a lot better than they were last season. There was a lot of significant injuries on this team last season.

they did sign Johnny Goodrow. I think they're hoping maybe you make some changes in off season. They can be a lot better. You add a premium talent, whether that premium talent, whether it's Smith, Carlson, maybe Fantilli, maybe Mitch Cove, who knows that maybe they don't help you next season, but then a year or two. And I think you're hoping Kent Johnson grows to a little bit more.

I think you're praying that Cole Cylinder is better next season. Obviously, he had a tough year. Second year probe is still a 19-year-old. not really rent alarms in any regard. But I think what's interesting with Columbus is the timeline for this management group. I think there's a lot of pieces long-term to this organization to be in good shape. I think they have some really good young players and guys like Rowensky signed for the long term. Can this management group, you think, build this team, though, in time?

And is Yarmel-Kek-Kalayan still there by the time this team's in the playoffs again? So far, I mean, it's a tough. That's a tough one. I think he's gotten a long time, more time than you tend to see General Manager's get. Now, part of that is they kind of had that stretch where they were seemingly coming out of this rebuild. And then for a number of reasons, Pierloch Dubois, Seth Jones, etc., they kind of are forced to go backward. I don't know how much you do or don't blame the management group for that.

That's probably the core of ownership's decision there is did they fail at that first rebuild? and, you know, I think that colors how you would look at how much time you're going to give them on a second, or was it more out of their control? I think that's kind of the first question if you're the ownership group you're trying to answer. Yeah, you know, I, it's tough. I think Columbus is in such a tough situation. Johnny Boudreau has changed the narrative a bit that you can't get top end free agents to sign there, but that could be a one-off. I mean, the stars aligned there and everything worked out. The thing is, I think this draft is really, you know, the decision that is the decision that they make it number three is the most critical decision they have left. And to Corey's point,

does the, if the clock really is ticking on Yarmou Kekaline, and I think that we're going to see that reflected in who is taken third overall, you know, Yarmo in his post lottery availability, said that, you know, they're going to be good centers there. This has been a team that has really struggled to find a number one center, to keep a number one center, to have somebody that can be that long-term pivot for them. And there's a chance. that it could be Will Smith or Leo Carlson in that range that is still available. If Adam Fantilli is there, you run to the podium. You just go right up there as quickly as you possibly can.

But that's the thing. And in my mock draft, which I know we're going to talk about later, but, you know, the thing about one, Corey's point is one that I didn't necessarily consider when I made mine is that, you know, they've also often have their idea of who the next best player is. And could Matt Veemichkov be the transformational player that the Blue Jackets need to get to the next level? He's not a center. But he is, you know, Corey and I have talked about it a lot. You know, what's the difference between Matt Veemichkhov and Will Smith?

I think it's fairly significant, honestly. But maybe not as much as we used to think, but I think it's pretty big. And so that's another discussion to have. So do you go for the positional need or do you go for the guy that you have to wait for, knowing that you have veteran talent, knowing that you have some guys on the way, knowing that David Eurocheck is coming, knowing that you have some areas that you're going to need to probably address either by trade or free agency.

But do you make that thing? And I think because of the timeline that they're on and because of the fact that you need to maximize Johnny Dutero, maybe that's why they wouldn't go in that direction and focus more on the center and hope that, you know, the question that I have is, is Leo Carlson, does Leo Carlson have the pace to be a number one center? Does Will Smith have the all-around game to be a number one center? Those are legitimate questions that I think, you know, there are actually some teams that haven't believed that Will Smith is going to be a center. You know, so that's the other thing you have to kind of take into account.

I personally think he is and he's a play driving center. But, you know, that's, those are the questions they have to answer at number three. When I read the comments to our staff mock the other night, I think it was a Blue Jackets fan who commented some of the effect of like, can Columbus really afford to go with, we took Will Smith for them in the staff mok or Scott did. Can they really afford to go for another smaller forward here? Do they need some power at the time? They have Cole Cillinger, but you don't think of power for when you think of Kent Johnson. I think, you know, maybe you can argue you don't think of true power for it when you think of Leo Carlson.

But I think there's an argument for that, too. He is big, yeah. And I think he can play on the inside. And he's not going to run people over, but he gets to the net really well. And it's a good argument. And the center search is interesting because you look at Ken Johnson and he's played center at times as an amateur and a pro. But, you know, is he for sure a number one center? Yeah, I can't sit and tell you that.

Same thing with a Cole Cilinger. He's played a lot of center as a pro. Is he going to be a number one center? You can't sit here and tell you that. And you can't really sit here and tell you that for either Smith or Carlson. I think what's really interesting with Carlson, though, is in the lead-up to the World Championships for Sweden, he has been playing center, which he hasn't played all year between the world juniors and in the SHL. And if he plays center effectively at that higher level of this age, that is a really persuasive.

waste of argument, I think. Corey, you hinted at it a minute ago when we were talking about Mitchkov, but the other day on the show you said, you know, it could very well be that we're actually talking about Mitchcov in the six to ten range here. If he doesn't go here at three, I think that that's maybe is an indication that, you know, yeah, it could be about Columbus's individual situation, but maybe that the league isn't just looking at this, the way that we might ranking true talent. Yeah, I think there is, and it's, hard to say. We're recording this in early

May right now. I think a lot's going to change between now and late June. I think all the hockey people agree he's a great player. Not like every single person, I think hasn't rated maybe as highly as Chris and myself do, but most hockey people think he's a hell of a hockey player. I don't think that's the debate

right now. I think the debate is really on the risk factors, the patience, and and not, and taking him in lieu of taking guys like a Will Smith or Leo Carlson, who are extremely good hockey players, maybe not as highly rated, but still extremely good prospects that you feel highly confident are going to be in your lineup

in the next year or two. But I don't think we'll really know, and I don't think teams are really going to know where they stand on this question until we get really close to the draft. But that's just been the general sentiment I've gotten early on is I just have a hard time. If the draft happened tomorrow, seeing Mitchkov go ahead of Smith, seeing him go ahead of Leo Carlson for the reasons I just discussed. But it will be really interesting. I think everybody that I talked to in the league agrees,

it's the biggest question in the draft this season is who takes that swing? And, you know, you kind of see the comments early on from management groups about it. You know, I think you've seen, for example, Mike Greer and San Jose kind of say publicly that, you know, they want to try and get this team rebate. I don't think they use the word rebuild. I think they've actually, Massesac, our shark writer, has noted they've intentionally avoided using that word. But they're trying to get this done in a quicker manner.

You know, quicker does not, to me, invoke the name Montefi Michikov, for example. You know, so it's, I think patience is a big part of this. And it's interesting when I talk about patience too, with Mitchcoff, I think a lot of people in the league, whether or frankly readers too always make the comments about like, oh, it's going to be three years minimum, insinuating that he might sign an extension, which he could. But in my time covering top Russian prospects,

it's pretty rare, I find. If the guy is a truly exceptional player, that he signs an extension. He pretty soft, did it? Yeah, but he was not that kind of prospect when he was 17, 18 years old. He was a fifth round pick. Like that kind of player typically does. not signed long extensions, especially when he's already signed a long deal to start with.

Again, things could happen. There are risks. There are uncertainties both with the player, the contract, the organization, and frankly, the war of Ukraine. There's a whole lot of uncertainties, and I get it. But I would say not, I can't see here and give you any guarantees, but I would say there's a strong probability at the end of that KHL contract. He's coming to the National Hockey League, presuming, you know, he can with everything going on in the world. Yeah. Yeah, the thing about top Russian players, just like Corey said, they have the same feeling as any other player that they want to be the best. And they know if they want to be the best, they have to come to the NHL. And so, you know, Mitch Kov has been talked about since he was, you know, 15, 15, 16 years old. You know, we've watched him. We've seen him dominate international competitions. We haven't seen him do that lately because of Russia being banned. But the thing is, is that, you know, coming into this year,

some people would have the conversation about, you know, Mitchcock being Connor Bedard's biggest competition for number one. And I think a lot of us felt that going in. We've seen them head to head at the under 18 worlds a couple of years ago. But, you know, things have changed and we're judging a KHL season versus a WHL season, all these different things. And I do think Bedard is the better of the two players by a more significant margin than I ever, than previously, you know, coming into this year. But that's the thing that the interesting thing is, you know, if you're waiting, think about, you know, it's we see 25, 26 on his contract and it's, you know, but it's, it's, that season's 23, 24, next season 24, 25, 25, 26. Okay. So you've got three seasons essentially where you're just waiting. And in the, in the end, you're getting that player, he's, he's developing at a high level. He's playing in one of the best leagues in the world. He is, he is getting an opportunity to, to build. and gain confidence, probably back with Skaa very soon, and in one of the best franchises.

He could have a chance to win championships, all these different things. You're getting free development out of that time. He's only going to get better. I have a lot of faith in the player in terms of projecting the player out. And so now, but the risk assessment is there. I think the reward potential for Matt Vaymichkov is exceptionally high. And there's a lot of variables there, but I think the reward is exceptionally high and that you could have a superstar offensive talent.

If he's one of the smartest hockey players in this draft, I love the way that he scores goals. He just finds ways to create offense. That's what you have to decide. Not necessarily, and, you know, GMs don't make those decisions in a vacuum. There's a lot of timelines and different things. How does he fit into our timeline? But can we afford to pass on potentially one of the best players in this draft?

One final point in terms of the timeline. I think you look at the teams, what I would kind of think is like as the Mitch called alleyway kind of thing. We're not including Chicago, I'm including, let's say even Anaheim, that's, you know, Columbus, San Jose, Montreal, Arizona, Philadelphia, I would say is kind of the prime alleyway there in terms of where he should fit in terms of talent.

None of those organizations, I think you can realistically look for their rosters and their farm systems and you say they should be a contender within the next two to three years. Columbus has like the one little asterisk on them because I think they expected to be better. but I think these are all organizations that should be realistically looking at their rosters and saying themselves like

what is in the best long-term interest of an organization? The draft's not about trying to make your team better in two years or now. It's about trying to draft the guy who's going to have the best career. We just talked about Chicago earlier. Chicago didn't draft Patrick Kane and Jonathan Tays for what they were going to do in year two

or year three of their draft after their draft. They were looking for what they were going to do for the 15 years of their career with Chicago. It went pretty well in year two or three after the draft for Chicago. Yes. Certainly, this will not be the last time we talk about landing spots and outlook for Mavimitchcock. We're going to take a quick break.

We'll be right back with Scott Powers. We're talking about Connor Bedard and how he fits with the Blackhawks, what he means for the short-term future of the Blackhawks. All right, joining us now is one of our favorite people at the company, one of our favorite kind of guests, the kind who drops what they're doing to get on with you 30 seconds after you call them. That is Scott Powers, Blackhawks beat writer here at The Athletic. Scott, we'll start with this. What of the last 48 hours been like there in Chicago with some seismic news, obviously?

Yeah, no, it certainly has changed the conversation around the Blackhawks where I think a lot of people were down. You know, as tough as this season was, people thought there was going to be, you know, a golden prize at the end. and as good as this draft is, and you guys all are well, where there's a difference between Bardard and Will Smith, right? So I think, you know, fourth or fifth, it's, you know, I think even Kyle Davidson kind of come to terms with that. And, you know, he, you know, I know there are times this year he was really stressed out about them winning games

and just, you know, how Anheim was doing or Columbus. And, you know, kind of came to terms with that at this point, you know, like everything's out of the control. He hired the coach he did. the other teams, you know, were worse than the Blackhawks than they were. And, you know, regardless, they felt like they were going to get a good player. And, you know, depending on how, you know, who they got, they probably would have to build their team a little bit differently. So I think he came resigned that, you know, they were going to get the fourth or fifth best player in this draft.

And, yeah, for things to change like they did, yeah, it was a shock to, I think, from, you know, from the organization on down. And, you know, the season ticket sales have been, you know, reportedly just. you know, just booming and certainly has changed, you know, the coverage, or, you know, I think Les and I thought we were going to kind of step away after the lottery for a little bit, and certainly there's a little bit more to write, and the fans are excited, and yeah, it changes, it changes the future. I mean, no one's going to say that Blackhawks deserve this, especially, you know, walking away from Canaan Taves, but this is the perfect scenario for them, you know, they just stepped away from two franchise pieces, and, you know, and they're handed another

one. So it's, yeah, it's definitely changed everything that you thought maybe was going to happen to the Blackhawks, at least in the near future. It is kind of that big break that you need whenever you go into a rebuild and they get it right away. But I think one of the immediate questions is like, what does this mean for their timeline? Because Conor Baddard's not walking into a ready made playoff situation here necessarily either. Like how does this affect what Chicago is going to do this summer? And what do you think this means for their timeline overall? I think it has to alter a bit. you know, like I think if they had looked at, you know, Will Smith or even Carlson, I think you're looking at someone who's, you know, a year or two away, and you're probably not worried about who

you're putting on this year's roster, and probably in some ways, you're probably shooting for McLeodney next year or another top high pick, and they potentially might be getting another, you know, high traffic next year. But I think they want to put some, you know, some veteran players around, you know, it's not just, you know, it won't be just, um, Connor Bredar coming in, but it'll be Lucas Reichel at 21 still, you know, playing his first NFL season. You know, potentially Kevin Krogynski making the jump. And, you know, they also have young guys like, you know, White Kaiser and Alex Velasics. You have a lot of young players coming in.

And you've surrounded them with some, you know, some veterans. There's Connor Murphy coming back and Seth Jones and Tyler Johnson. But I think they want some higher-end players who have played with guys of this level. And so, you know, I think a guy like Tyler Bertuzzi is in the mix or, you know, Com for, you know, it's not the greatest UFA class, so there's some limitation. So I think, you know, I think the Blackhawks will end up overpaying for some players because, one, they needed to get to the cap floor still like that. It's going to be a challenge based on who they got rid of.

And two, they want someone to kind of probably be the, you know, the stop gap until they can figure out which of their other prospects. I mean, they have another first rounder this year. They have four second rounders, you know, two first rounders again next year. So, I mean, there's other pieces that could be complementing. you know, a player like Badaard that's not immediately in an organization. So I think they want to bring veterans on now that could, you know, help them along and make things a little bit easier for them, but also probably not be permanent pieces.

But I think it certainly accelerates who they're looking at. And even from, you know, I wrote about it today a little bit, just from a cap perspective, you know, like it's in three years, you know, you're probably paying 10, you know, 10 to 12, whatever the cap's at, you know, $13, 14 million if you're looking for a long-term deal for kind of of that stuff kind of comes in and a play too.

So it certainly accelerates a lot of those conversations. So I, you know, I'd be shocked if they didn't go out and get a veteran or two

this summer. I mean, there was talk of Max Domi and Anders had not to see you coming back and those are possibilities. But I also think that there's some other guys

that maybe they weren't thinking about as much that may be more of our possibilities now too. Two questions I had for you, Scott. One, like you said,

I think we agree that maybe with the addition of Bedard, it changes the plans for this offseason. But presuming it's just the roster as it stands right now, who are potential linemates for Bedard going into next season to kind of frame what the first stage of this conversation might look like. And the second question is, I think in some NHL circles, there have been at least debates about whether long-term Connor Bedard's going to be a center or a wing in the NHL.

I think you look at Chicago's death chart, and especially in a post-Johnathan Tay's era, and frankly, the lack of centers. And have you heard any discussions about where they think he could fit on the depth chart in year one? Like Jack Hughes, I remember played Wing in the first year, but different set of players on the Chicago roster right now. Yeah, I don't know about, I guess short term, long term, I'm pretty sure they see him as a center. And maybe some of that's dictated by who they can get this summer. Maybe, you know, if it max Domi's coming in, maybe Domi's his center, you know, but I, yeah, from the conversation I had with sources, at least even before the draft, you know, leading up to it, they thought Bernard was definitely a center for them and considering who they have lost and their pipeline. And right now, it's, you know, Frank Nazar is there and Paul Lewinsky.

And they drafted a bunch of centers that are, you know, some of them too, you know, guys that probably, you know, move to the wing as they go on. but I think they were drafting Badard as a number one center. And whether that's in the short term, I think something may be based on who they get this summer. As for the current roster, I mean, there aren't a lot of top six possibilities. I think Reichel's the one that jumps out from just potential and skill set. But whether you want to put two guys like that, two young guys together,

maybe depends on that third guy. You know, Tyler Johnson, Taylor Radish, Philip Kirsch have other guys who play top six roles. none of them probably kind of pop in that same way. You know, I think that Blackhawks were happy with Domani, Anthos, you know, two guys that they, you know, that they potentially could bring back. And there aren't a lot of guys, and, you know, even in Rockford and the American League that are probably ready for that jump. You know, Colton Docks about to enter the system.

He's going to turn pro. But, yeah, there's not a lot of, I mean, it was such a, yeah, it was definitely a void there of forward prospect. and guys who just who didn't click and then obviously trading away some of their top young talent like you know to brinket and a doc and that too so it there aren't a lot of guys there so i think that yeah i i think they're going to have to go out and get a couple top six forwards if they want to compliment rickle and badard but i think rickle and badar could make sense whether it's it's from the beginning or not we'll see and then i i think they'll sprinkle some of those veterans like you know radish who has a pretty good shot and

tyler johnson's obviously played with some high-end players and you know Philip Kerfshed kind of bounced around and he's probably, you know, destined to be a bottom six player, but he can, you know, he can play up top a little bit and he's had that experience. So I think there's a few players that can potentially fit with them, but I think most off they, I mean, most likely they want to go out, go out and get a couple of those guys too. What are your biggest curiosities, I guess, at this point with what this means for the franchise? I mean, as you're coming out of this, I'm sure there's a million, million kind of questions as to what comes next.

Yeah, I think the biggest one is how they start assembling the team, because, it's, yeah, this UFA class isn't great. So what does this mean for next summer? You know, I, and knowing the type of player that Bedard is. So, you know, if it had been Carlson, then, you know, I think maybe different types of wingerers would have made more sense. But, you know, I knew the Blackhawks hadn't thrown, you know, like they hadn't, you know, pushed on the idea of bringing Alex to bring it back.

You know, if he's a UFA next summer and, you know, depending on what happens with him in Ottawa and it doesn't, you know, it doesn't look like a long-term extension is happening there. So would they bring to Brinkett back? You know, where does, um, I think at this point they can kind of start game planning a little bit more than they could have, you know, like with whomever they else they drafted, that you probably have an idea, but now you have a definitive number one player. And I know there have been even talk of, you know, if they didn't get the number one to pick that, you know, maybe we need to start building a team a little bit differently because it's as good as Reichel is. And, you know, maybe Will Smith would have been that maybe you build it like Carolina or something like that where you don't have that definitive superstar.

And I think that changes that conversation too. So I think, you know, having conversations with, you know, team sources leading up to this, you know, kind of their thought process and then seeing how that's evolved, you know, with one pick and just how the whole makeup of a team can look. I think that's, you know, it's really interesting. And, you know, I think even, you know, what you had done sort of with projecting where the team is in 25, 26, that sort of story. Yeah, it just, it changes the landscape where a week ago it looked one way and now it's another. So I think for me it's just it's a roster construction and what's this means for, you know, like when you put Kevin Kaczynski and Lucas Reichel on a poster, it's one thing if you put Connor Bredd between them, like it, it, the whole, you know, the whole picture looks a lot different. So I think the Blackhawks were excited about their youth, and they certainly have a lot more draft picks, but it's, yeah, it looks a little bit shinier when Connor Bredard's there. A lot to get into in the coming week, Scott, I know you're going to be all over it, but really appreciate to jumping on with this.

for short notice here and make sure you're reading Scott stuffed, everybody out there listening. I appreciate you. Thanks for having. All right, we are back. Great stuff from Scott Powers. And now we officially commence mock draft season. Both of you fine gentlemen have released your initial mock drafts here out of the lottery. We did a staff mock at the athletic as well. Scott Wheeler's got his mock out. So no shortage of mocks out there of people who want to read them. We're going to focus on you two guys' mock drafts today. And no surprise. is really at the top here. Corey, you've got Mitch Kov at 8 to Washington. I think that's the first

one that really maybe shocks people. And I think probably worth talking about here, a couple of the guys that you have going right ahead of him, two guys who I believe Chris also has in his top eight or so, Ryan Leonard and Delabor Divorsky, both really good World U-18 tournaments here. What puts these two guys in this kind of air, though, Corey, in your first mock? Yeah, I mean, as we talked about it in the earlier segment, I think trying to figure out where Mitchcoff goes is the ultimate question in this draft. Why not I do not pretend to have the answers to right now, even though that's what the whole point of the FMLf draft exercise is. And I think it's part that I think the sentiment I'm getting from people in the league, people with influence in the decision making processes in the league is if there's a guy that they consider a highly valuable play, or a guy who might be a true premium prospect,

that guy probably goes ahead of Mitchcoff right now. And I think we kind of knew who those four guys were for a while, kind of Prada, Antointhinil, Will Smith, Leo Carlson. But the more I talk to people in the league, I think there's some people who would put David Reinbacher into that bucket. And post-U18s with how good Dalbo Orte d'Avorsky was there, I think you're starting to at least hear that sentiment that he could be in that bucket.

And I don't have this player rated that high, but there's a lot of people in the league who have Ryan Leonard rated that highly. And who, frankly, as I think Chris aforementioned, you know, which maybe have him in the same discussion as Will Smith, frankly, on that same U.S. team. There's some people who absolutely adore Ryan Leonard. And so I'm just, based on the information I have, I think there's a decent chance both of could go ahead and Mitch Kov, not based on their player rating.

It's just a risk balancing of guys that people in the, league really, really love and are really confident will be in their lineup within the next couple of seasons. You know, I'm looking at the draft order and just based on what I know about the players, what I think the league thinks about the players is that I think six to ten becomes a realistic range from Mitchcoff, whether that is Arizona, whether it is Philadelphia, Washington, Detroit, St. Louis. I think that one of those organizations I feel is his landing spot.

I just can't confidently tell you where that is yet. Yeah. You know, and that's a, it's a good point, too, about these, the designation of the premium players. And I think, you know, to Corey's point, both Leonard and Dvorsook have kind of landed in that, in that range. And I think they should, you know, like, you know, I have Leonard higher than Corey does just personally. My final rankings come out at the end of the month. But, you know, he's, to me, I think the. He plays a style that speaks to so many NHL teams.

We both mocked him to Philly. You know, I think he fits there stylistically. He fits into kind of with what they're building. He has goal scoring ability. They've already got Cutter-Gocier in there, you know, as a guy that they view as a potential center here. And, you know, I think that Leonard and him would play off each other quite well. You know, I think that there's also an opportunity there for, you know, for a team that, you know, could potentially, you know, move into that range, you know, as well.

I wonder what, we don't know what Daniel Breyer is really going to do yet. I think that's another thing that's kind of interesting. And, you know, do they go defense? Do they go somewhere else? You know, because as, as Corey mentioned, David Reinbacher, in addition to Mitchcove, I feel like where that first defenseman is going to go is another big discussion. And another thing that's going to kind of change the way we look at the top six, seven, eight, nine, ten, you know, because we don't exactly know where those guys are going to

end up. But really fascinating to see just kind of the way things jumble up after, you know, when Mitchcov goes, when the first eventsman goes. I mean, there's going to be a lot of different variables in the first 10 picks that can really change the whole complexion of the draft as it always does. But, you know, this year in particular, it seems like there's there could be some real shakeups. Well, those defensemen, I think that's the natural place to go here, right? Because your next defenseman after Reinhacher, Chris, goes at 15, Axel Sandin Pelica. Corey, you got Tom Vlander to St. Louis at 10. I think you also have Sandy Pelica at 15 to Nashville.

But where that second D goes, I do think, is a real pivot point. Yeah, no, it is. And I think the St. Louis conversation is going to be really interesting. One thing in Ryan Leonard's defense, too, that I think we've talked about Will Smith and Gayne Perrault's record breaking seasons a lot. Ryan Leonard had one of the most productive seasons ever by a program player, too, in terms of both points and goals. But going to St. Louis for a second. I think they are a really fascinating team to watch in this year's draft. They have a lot of high picks.

This is a team that if you look at the recent draft history have really stocked up on wingers or guys who maybe in case of maybe Zach Bullduke, they think could potentially play center, but frankly, he's been a full-time wing in the queue. We presume Jake Neighbors is going to be a full-time wing in the NHL. We presume Jimmy Snuggaroos going to be a full-time wing in the NHL, all good to very good prospects. Snuggrood, especially head-up.

an incredible freshman season of Minnesota. But I think you look at this organization right now, and there isn't a whole lot of young depth at defense. There isn't a whole lot of young depth at center. And with several high picks, if you're the same Louis Blues, I think you're really hoping you leave this draft with some reinforcements coming at those positions.

So, yeah, and I think getting the center for them is important, and you have Charlie Stramel to them at 25 after Tom Villander at 10. you also have them coming out of this with Oliver Bonk, another kind of maybe like a high floor type of D. So really, that's three premium positions. I know there are, maybe you have some question on is St. St. Ramel, like a true center is a true top half of the line of piece? But you are getting these premium positions, these really, honestly, St. Louis type of players, too, at least in how your first mock shakes out. Right.

And we'll see how they ultimately end up with those three picks. But I think this is such an important draft. and I do you look at this organization you look at their draft history I think you were looking this earlier max like what was that time they took off defense been in the first round it's felt like forever I think it was Jordan Schmaltz was their first first round their last first round D and that we're back a decade already by that point right and and that one it didn't even hit so I think there there is I think a critical need I think to address that position in this organization yeah absolutely they're one of a few teams that have an opportunity like that in this draft

Chris, go ahead. Yeah, yeah. I mean, like, you know, and I think to Corey's point, it's going to be a very interesting decision at that 10 spot because there are probably going to be a couple of good centers there too. And so it's, you know, but there are so few premium defensemen that, you know, you might want to take that, use that pick as a bit of a re-zone. So I have, I mocked Nate Danielson to St. Louis, which is a guy that I think is kind

of fits a lot of the things that they're looking for. But I also can totally see Corey's side of it too, especially with Vlander who has been a guy that's risen, a guy that plays a real strong defensive game that skates very well. I think he plays the modern defense very well in terms of just that mobility factor that he has. And so it's going to be very, I too am very fascinated about St. Louis, especially with those other picks. They're probably going to be able to come out with a couple of guys. but the fact that they haven't picked a defenseman in 10 years or over 10 years is is amazing to me, considering, you know, that they were able to kind of get some of those core guys that they had through the draft. Guys like Alex Petrangelo with a high pick, Colton Perrako in later rounds, you know, so they've been able to do it.

But yeah, I mean, I think this is one of those drafts where, you know, having multiple picks is going to give you so much flexibility because I do think there's depth in a lot of various positions, just not defense. So maybe you do have to reach a little bit if you want to get the best value. I think in our staff mock, Jeremy Rutherford took Oliver Moore for them, another center. And that's another player I want to talk about with you too here because, Chris, you've got more right in that same right. I think you've got him 11 to Vancouver, the very next pick. Corey, you've got him slipping a little in yours around 19, I think, to Winnipeg. That's kind of a pretty big range for a guy who, you know, I think we had been talking about certainly around the top 10 for a lot of this run up to the draft. Yeah, that's just based on the information I've gotten in the last month or two,

you know, following maybe his USHL games that the 18s played, and especially after the U18 world is, I think in the industry more is the fourth of the four NTP guys in terms of the order he's going to go in. I think there's a lot of love for Gabe Perrault right now. I didn't really know where to confidently project Perrault in the mock. I think I had, I think at 14 to Pittsburgh, but there are people in the league that I'm talking to who think he's going to go

not only higher, potentially much higher. It's always about finding the right spot for guys. You know, you have really good players in Ryan Leonard and Albao Dvorsky, Mufé Michkoffi. So there's a lot of good players to go around. So you've got to find a place in the right organization where you think makes them fit. The mock draft exercises are never an exact science.

But, you know, so, but I think in terms of more, I think he will be the fourth of the four to go. I think there are some mild concerns on the offense in terms of whether it's high, high-end offense to go with a 511 frame. It does remind me a little bit of the discourse on Alex Newhook where I think publicly there was a lot of love for him going into his draft and then and Hating Krebs too as well in that year. And then when the drafts actually rolled around, they went a little bit lower in terms of the projection. So I'm not saying he goes all the way to 19. Maybe that's too harsh. Maybe it's closer to 15, 16, 17. But I do think of those four big NTDP fours, he'll be the fourth taken. You made the point previously, I think, too.

too, right? Like, Gabe Perot did not just break Austin Matthews' single season record. He broke it by quite a bit. And so when you start talking about potentially it could go much higher than even we think that, I have to imagine that's the driving force behind that is at some point, the magnitude of that sentence he smashed Austin Matthews' record does have to carry a lot of weight. Right. I think the issue with Perrault is just calibrating the skill and the hockey sense. It's like, what degree is it? Are we talking Colperfetti? Are we talking Lucas Raymond? Are we talking something higher, lower? Is it, you know, maybe something that we're just like Sonny Milano?

Is it Trevor Zegris? These are all kind of the calibrations and the discussions that need to be had in organizations. And depending who you ask, that he will get a different answer. Yeah. Yeah. One of the very strange, I mean, even watching him a ton this year still have a hard time projecting exactly where we want.

And I also had him at 14 to the Penguins. And, you know, I think that there is a good chance that he does go a bit higher. I mean, to me, the amazing thing about Gabe Perrault is, you know, and I don't know, Corey, maybe you feel differently. But you watch him and yes, he's absolutely skilled. He makes incredible plays. He doesn't necessarily have any one dynamic element. Like, it doesn't just, like, I don't think his hands are, are so, you know, like one-on-one skill-wise going to beat everybody. Like, you know, I think that in some cases, like Leonard might actually be, you know, in terms of one-on-one skill might have,

better hands in that regard. But the thing that Perot does better maybe than anybody is just his his ability to read and react to plays, his ability to find guys. I mean, certainly there's chemistry with his two linemates, but the kind of the kind of hockey sense that Perot has, it's the kind of guy that will probably develop chemistry with anybody. And I think that's one of the key factors that's going to allow him to rise up the draft because he makes guys around him better. And he's kind of does it in an unassuming way. And I'm fascinated by by him. But just to quickly get back to Oliver Moore, too, I think that the other thing that's going to kind of happen here in this draft, and the reason that I mocked more higher is because of the Senate, you know, just once you get past that, you start seeing a lot more wings pile up. You start seeing more of the defensemen and different things. You know, I think Vancouver very well could go, you know, defense in the draft in that range. There's going to be some options potentially available to them. I don't know if David Reinhbacher will be one of them. But, you know, I think that that's long gone by then.

Yeah, I agree. I had him at six in mine. And that still could be, you know, a bit high. But I think that for Oliver Moore, the center factor as well is, is there. I think that the speed factor is there. You know, if you're a Vancouver, you're a team that has your long-term number one center. You've got to get him under his new contract, of course. But, you know, you've got this guy.

And can he be that complimentary piece? Can he be a bit more of a matchup's guy? Can he be? And to Corey's point, too, the offensive capabilities I don't think have have grown in a way that I thought they would this season. You know, I'm not really concerned about the points as much. It's more just, you know, his ability to finish plays because he has the feet. The hands and the brain are still trying to catch up to the feet, I think, a little bit. I like the player an awful lot. I think that despite the fact that he does have that 5-11 frame, I think he's very sturdy. He's got some good strength. got explosiveness to him as well. And so that's why I think there's still a good chance that he's in that top 15 range. But I agree, you know, like you start talking to more people and say, you know, all the sudden, you know, Gabe Perot was fourth for a real long time this year for a lot of people.

And then it's flipped and Moore is now more consistently fourth, although in my particular mock draft, he ended up going third of the fourth. One more guy I want to ask you about here, guys, Samuel Hans at court. He goes nine to Detroit and yours. He didn't make the top 16 for Chris's Your's cut off there, our staff mock cut off there at the end of the lottery Because we don't quite know the exact order yet But I thought that's an interesting one

He's a name who I think, Corey, you've talked about Maybe flying a little bit under the radar publicly compared to Maybe what you're hearing. Yeah, I just, this might be a little aggressive We'll see where I am with my next mock draft Turns out of what I'm hearing people in the league But what I have, at least from my understanding of watching the player And talking to people in the NHL,

I think this is a really highly thought-off player. I think there's a lot of reasons of love him. He's huge. He skates well. He has, you know, very good skill. I mean, you look at the scoring rates this season, and they were still pretty good. They weren't off the charts compared to the other Western kids, but I think it was comparable to Brayne Yeager's scoring while also being five inches taller than him.

And he kills penalties, and he's a two-way player who competes well. I think there's a lot of reasons to be excited about this player. I think there were some hopes that he was going to go to the men's worlds. There was kind of those rumors buzzing a couple of weeks ago and ended up not happening. That would have been a really interesting thing to see him at that level. But I think there's a lot of pro-projection in this player. It's funny, I use the comparison into him to Pavel Zaka, and I get a lot of people who roll their eyes at that one.

I think Pavel Zaka's seen as a boring player or as a guy who didn't live up to his draft stock, which is reasonable. But Pavel Zaka, what did he get 50 points this season? He was a consistent top six forward on one of the very best teams in the National Hockey League. In recent NHL memory. Yes, you know, so I think you, well, the playoffs maybe change that narrative a little bit. Sure. But I think you can do a lot worse than that kind of player.

And I think you're looking at the playoffs right now. We're recording this before, you know, before Florida, Toronto plays game four. And we'll see what the results of a lot of the playoffs are still to come. But I think you're looking at the teams that could potentially emerge until in the Final Four. There's a lot of guys on those forward and defensive. defense units that are big guys who can skate and compete hard. And there aren't a whole lot of guys who don't look like Samuel Hansick in those lineups. I thought it was interesting. There was an article in the province a while back in April. The lead of that article was that, you know,

Steve Eisenman was spotted at a couple of Vancouver Giants games. And the obvious guess there is that Samuel Hansick is, I mean, breaking news, GM scouts players. But I did think that was an interesting little nugget, right? Yeah. I mean, that, yeah, I mean, it doesn't mean, you know, anything in particular. Iserman's been in a ton of games recently scouting the top guys. Plenty of other GMs I've seen at top games. Sorry, I game scouting the top guys. It can't piece things together too much.

There's one every now and then we're like, really, you're here kind of thing. Like, you know, like this is not really a guy who's, you know, a consensus, you know, top five, top 10 name kind of thing. So sometimes those are little clues, but usually it's not, especially for guys like Iserman who doesn't hold on your life scouting. A hundred percent. I saw him. I've seen him at Live scot a lot of games from top prospects.

He doesn't draft. Yeah, for sure. All right. I think that's going to do it for us today, guys. We're going to have a lot more on all this stuff in the weeks to come. Thanks for listening to this episode of the Athletic Hockey Show prospect series. You can follow us on YouTube at YouTube.com slash at the athletic hockey show. You can also catch more of Chris over at Flow Hockey.

You can listen to his podcast, Talk, and Hockey Sense. In fact, I'd recommend that you do. And right now, you can do. a one-year subscription to the Athletic for just a dollar a month. When you visit theathletic.com slash hockey show. I'll talk to you soon.