The Athletic Hockey Show - Montreal Canadiens extend Stanley Cup final vs Tampa Bay Lightning. Grading the job NBC Sports did in covering the NHL and Joe Smith's report card on the Bolts game four performance.

Episode Date: July 6, 2021

On the Tuesday edition of the Athletic Hockey Show, Craig Custance and Sean Gentille look back on game four of the Stanley Cup Final between Tampa Bay and Montreal, with Joe Smith.Plus the guys look at the value of Ryan McDonagh, and if he should be protected by Tampa for the expansion draft, and if he should be named to team USA at the 2022 Winter Olympics.The guys grade the job of NBC Sports, covering the NHL, as the contract with the network and the league is coming to an end at the conclusion of the Cup final.Custance and Gentille dissect Corey Pronman's latest column, on what 20 NHL scouts and executives really think of the top prospects leading up to the draft later this month.Finally, Craig and Sean pay tribute to Columbus Blue Jackets goalie Matīss Kivlenieks who tragically lost his life in an unfortunate accident on the July 4th weekend, and the boys tap their sticks for Stephen Johns who recently wrapped up his rollerblading across the United States to raise awareness for mental health. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hey, this is Craig Custin's of the Athletic joined, as always, on Tuesday morning, the same time for us. I don't know when this will post. This is on time of Tuesday by my good friend Sean Gentilly, who was manning our live blog last night, a fantastic game for between, I had to figure out which game it was, Montreal and Tampa. And Sean, how are you, first of all? Tired a little bit, or are you good? I'm good. You're pumping out the content.

I moved most of last week, so that's always, that's always fun. Yeah, right. But, no, I'm good, man. I was psyched to do the intro last week with Ryan Clark. Oh, that's, how'd that go? Should you do the intro? I have no, I'm not married to the intro. No, that's fine.

You can, you know, skate right back in and steal it from me. It's fine. I'm not mad at all. Is it fine? You've seen that. Geez, gosh, we just got started. I haven't talked to you in two weeks. 100, 100% not mad.

You're doing the intro from now. Congratulations. Please put in the newspaper that I was not mad. How was the intro? I didn't listen. It was good. Does that make me a bad teammate? No, Clarkie called you Captain America.

And for obvious reasons, yeah, for obvious reasons, he compared the two of us to Falcon and Winter Soldier, so. Oh, wow. Well, that's good. I like that. That's great. So what I, first of all, I had this, like, so last night was fun for me because it was, it was, you know, the cups in the building, et cetera, all the, all the cliche. But once that game got into overtime, like my family, I guess ironically, or whatever the word is, is not a hockey family. Like, I'm watching these games by myself, 95% of the time.

I think that actually is, I think that actually is irony. It's rare that, it's rare that, you know, the concept of irony is deployed correctly. I'm pretty sure that qualifies. Is that what qualify? I'm always scared to, like, get called out for, you know, by the irony police. Fusing the Alanis more set definition of irony. No, I think that counts. It's very similar to rain in a wedding day.

And so, yeah, so I'm in, Cormec, who's a trooper was like doing Legos or something next to me all game. So that was good. But it gets to overtime. And the whole family comes in. And now everyone's invested because one goal and the Stanley Cup is won. And that's exciting. And when Josh Anderson scored that goal, everybody went nuts. And like went from no dog in the hunt to barely paying attention doing Ninjago Legos.

And then it was awesome. And it was really one of the first sports moments for me in a long time. Like shared not working sports moments. And I got that vibe. Like so many people were into that game last night. Maybe I'm imagining it, but it had that shared sports moment feel last night. I mean, you can look at the way me and Scotty were talking about it. When we were, me and Scott Burnside were talking about it when we were doing the live blog.

I mean, early on, we're like, this is a slog. You know, the first half of the first period, haves looked dead on their feet for the most part. They came out flat and blah, blah. And we're just like, all right, start the clock, time to kill time until this ends. but something happened like midway through the second where, you know, it could have just been, could have been the fact that it was a tight game or whatever, but that it felt like a, it felt like a flip switched, or a switch flipped, rather. Or a flip switch.

Whatever. I guess both kind of work, right? But I, you know what, I'm just, I'm glad we got a memorable game. I felt like that was the first. Yeah. That felt, you know, and we've said it here. We say it, you know. in other forms all over the place.

Like the finals are about, the finals about moments, you know, if you come out of these series with, uh, a handful of things that you can, you can carry with you. That means, that means things worked out.

And I think in a lot of ways, this was the first, this was the first time that happened last, last night, you know? And, uh, the, man, the, the,

the, the game winning goal is, was great. It's, you know, you love, you love seeing hustle like that from Anderson. You love seeing Cole Cofield, planning as, you know, tiny little body in front, not moving. It was, it was a blast and I was not anticipating it.

Like I said, me and, me and Scott, he kind of had to be convinced that that game was, was, was worth, was worth, was worth, live blogging. Which is, which is pathetic, pathetic. But, but I think that's also, you know, kind of a testament to what Duds, the first, the first three games of it really had been, is we were, we were. We were just sort of, you know, trying to run out the clock. And thankfully for us and, you know, again, the latest example of us not really knowing anything, you know, we get, we get a quasi classic there.

It was a lot of fun. It was awesome. And it was fun. Like, so as, you know, as, you know, Calvin joins room and cast and people are piling in, they're like, okay, so who did, who be, who in, in Cal was asking, you know, that Tampa's path? And I'm like, I couldn't even. I'm like, who was first strong?

Oh, yeah, Florida. And I'm like, hey, that was a great. Remember Florida, Tampa? Yeah, you remember. I'm like nostalgic for the first round from years ago. Yeah, you remember Florida versus Tampa 18, 18 months ago. That was fantastic. What a great series that was.

It was good. So we're going to have Joe Smith on. He's joining us in a few minutes. And we're going to talk about just how much to blame the mayor of Tampa, who really is the, I think, is the problem here. Gotta be, got to be, got to be mid-90%. I'm saying like 94, 96%. At least.

So we're going to get into that. Before we do, a couple of things. I have one quick thought. Because that Doc Emrick bit ran during one of the intermissions. And it did have the feel. If you're watching in the U.S., it had the feel of a NBC saying goodbye to, like, just in case this was Zid,

definitely had this like vibe of goodbye, everybody. You know, what a run it was. Do you have any close? closing thoughts for NBC in case we don't, you know, on the legacy of this stretch of time. Because didn't it have that feel to you as you're watching? It was like, okay, we're all saying goodbye. So they hedge their bets a little bit. They ran the first doc voiceover after the first period or whatever it was. And they were like, okay, whenever it's actually clinched, we're going to give, we're going to give you more of this. Yeah, you know what? It did. It pushed, it pushed the

button for me a little bit more than I thought it would because, you know, I don't, it's easy to criticize NBC. They make it easy. We've had 15 years or 16 years of ammo to kind of to kind of go on. And it's not that I'm glad that the switch is happening. I think it was time for a new approach. I think it was time for, you know, a lot of a lot of new stuff across the board. But that's doesn't change the fact that this has been the delivery method for for hockey in the United States for the last decade and a half right so say what you will about you know the studio team or Pierre McGuire or whatever we spent a lot of time with these people and I mean like and you know you think about like I was I was barely in college whenever whenever all this started right so I've

gone from, I've gone from being a, like, a straight up fan watching these games to having to think about it professionally and really turning it into my job. And they've been, you know, for better or worse, they've been the, they've been the, you know, the, the Sherpa throughout that, right? They've been, they've been kind of the signpost. So, yeah, I do, you know, I'm glad to see a lot of those people, uh, get work and, and kind of move on to, to other networks. That's a case for, I thought you were going to say go. I thought you were going the opposite around. Glad to see some of those people go. You never have to listen.

Yeah, that's also true. I could go the rest of my life without hearing certain people that are associated with that. But, you know, that's not true for everybody. I'm trying to be magnanimous here, man. You're really. Sure. No, no, no. I'm sorry.

I just was surprised you with nice. Yeah, you got to switch it off every now and then. But no, it is, it is true. There's no, you can't not be nostalgic about it. Because you see, you know, the 2009 Stanley Cup, right? where it's, I mean, personally, that, that one held a lot of weight for me. And you see, you know, all these moments, whether it's Alex Olveskin holding the cup or whatever. And, yeah, you, how can you not feel kind of nostalgic about it?

It's more about the games that we watched. Yeah, that's what it was to me. It was like, here's these moments in time that we were either at or covering or just were a big part of our lives. Or watching or whatever. And, you know, NBC was there for it. I don't know how much credit they deserve or whatever. But the fact remains that, you know, these were big moments. And they were there for them for better or worse.

So yeah, it did. It kind of had, it had the feel of a goodbye wave there. Do you have a final grade for NBC's, what was it, 15 years of? C plus. Oh, all right. I mean, like, that feels about right. It was, you know, bland by design. and, you know, pretty workmanlike and, you know, competent for the most part.

Nobody, we weren't ever really wowed by anything, but, you know, there's something to be said for, for showing up every day and doing it and doing a professional job. Yeah. I think, I think a C plus is almost spot on. You're right. They were there. They were definitely there. And I like Doc. I know you, I feel like you don't, maybe.

I like Doc. I feel like having the voice of the big game and the big moments is, I missed that. It was fun to hear him. Totally. And maybe he's the greatest human being in the history of humans. Yeah, he's a fantastic person. And again, he used the soundtrack for a lot of important stuff for me. So I'll respect in the world of Doc.

I was actually, you know, it's funny, whenever everybody thought that they were going to re-up with NBC or that there was going to be some NBC. presence moving forward, you know, with him and his, in his, uh, pseudo retirement. I was excited for, for video essays like that from him. I was like, okay, we're going to, we're going to get a few more years of doc, you know, doing stuff like that. And so, so it is. On some level, it's a, it's a bummer that we're, they were, they were not going to get that. But I'm also excited for new perspectives and in new approaches and really a larger reach. Like, it's a, it's a good, moving to ESPN and TNT is good for the game. And that's, and that's, and that's, and that's, and that's, And that's good for us selfishly, professionally.

But also, I'm just excited as a fan and a consumer to see what they have up their slave. Okay. Two things I want to hit on before we get Joe to talk about the mayor, of course, is one of my favorite stories around the draft dropped by Corey Promin two hours ago. And I like stealing his content and his bit before they go on and do their show, which is really good. Like, this is really good podcasting. Very, very slick move. Just pulling the rug right out from under Corey and Max. We are going to cherry pick.

Yes, yes. The best of the best of his stuff. Don't have a show on Friday, baby. That's... Take it off. Yeah. I mean, because they're doing really well. That show, if you don't listen to the Friday episode of the Athletic Hockey show,

it's Max Baltman and Corey Prongman talking prospects. And they are, in terms of sheer numbers are arch rivals. I think I haven't looked lately because I was off. But... So if we can steal a little bit of the shine and take all their best work and talk about it in our show, perhaps that'll hurt their ratings. That's something that I do with prospect stuff more than anything else because I don't know, I don't know anything, right? Like, I don't watch these guys.

I don't know what I'm talking about. So whenever I get asked, I'm just like, yeah, just got to default on the, on the Corey and Scott Wheeler and Max Bolton and talking points of the world. I'm like, Ken Johnson, he's this and he's that and whatever. I totally know what I'm talking about. Well, even, especially now, you don't even, we don't even like stats and stuff. Right. Like, wow, you know, you had 58 goals and 52.0.H. Yeah, you got to, you got to recalibrate for that too.

It's tough. It's been a challenging, it's been a challenging run for them. For the guys who, you know, have made their bones off a prospect evaluation, like, where, where have you been able to see these guys? So it is, it is cool to see some good work coming out of that. I'm glad to see pieces like the one we're about to talk about. You know, drop, drop because otherwise, like, what the hell would I know about any of these guys? It's good for us.

It's good homework. So, Corey's piece. So what he does, he talks to 20 scouts and executives and gets their thoughts on some of the top prospects. And this is great because it's unfiltered. It's called, I should read it to so you can find it on our site, NHL draft confidential, inside what scouts and executives really think about the top prospects. And, and, you know, it's enlightening. And so there was two people I want to talk, I mean, stay at the top of the draft, not just because I don't know anybody outside the top 10, possibly.

But because, you know, there's so much writing on these picks. And you have Owen Power, who's going to go to the Buffalo Sabres number one, most likely. And you get, you get, some of these quotes are interesting to me because you're not blown away by it, right? it's just a lot of guys that feel like they have to defend Owen power by saying things that aren't even that like, hey, he's really good. He's a really good player. He's definitely, for sure, a top pair. Defensivement, isn't he? You know, could he be more physical? Sure. And I'm like, I don't know. Does this make you feel that excited about it? Like, I don't know. No, but when you have a defenseman who's the projected number one pick in whatever, Rasmus,

I mean, maybe there was some, there was some, there was some excitement about Dahlin, I suppose. But, you know, it's tough to get that excited about a six foot six defenseman who's, you know, who can skate really well and these positionally sound and blah, blah. I mean, like, those are, those are cornerstone players. You need, you need guys like that to, to compete at a high level, but it just doesn't pop from a, from an entertainment standpoint. That's not, that's just. That's the nature of the beast. It's tough. Like, oh, 6.6, he gets compared to Victor Headman and he's a great skater. And, you know, maybe a little, maybe a little, you know, not the most physical guy in the world and blah, blah. That's just a recipe to, you know, come in kind of, kind of lukewarm.

It's not, it's not his fault. It's just the nature of the position. And it's, I don't believe you, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You're, no, you are. You're personally blaming. You're personally blaming Owen Power.

he has. So here's what he's really I want to read this. This is the one that jumped out to me. And I want to know, figure out, okay, if this is the case, what do you do if you did the Buffalo Sabers? I feel like we talk a lot about Buffalo Sabers on this episode. We love the Sabres. The quote here says, again, anonymous scout slash executive. He's the safe guy for everyone in this draft. He's going to play. That's a positive. He's going to be top four. No question in my mind. That's not great. Thank you. I hope. He's the number one of well pick. this is the one that jumped up to me. I would be surprised if in 10 years you told me he ended up being the best player. And presumably in this draft. So that to me was really interesting because...

That's the nerve-wracking bit if you're the sabers. Are you going safe, number one overall, if you're the Buffalo Sabres? Yeah, I guess it's a philosophical question. Yeah. It's a talent evaluator who's like, yeah, maybe he'll be the third best player in the draft. Maybe. I don't know. And that's not something you want to see necessarily about a number one pick.

Yeah. Natty Baneers is projected to go number two in a lot of mocks. And again, really concerning thoughts from these evaluators. A couple highlights. I don't see a first line center. He lacks that type of offensive creativity. Another one, I would be surprised if you look back in 10 years and he was the first or second best player in the draft. I think that sounds like the same guy.

I would have my concerns using a very high pick on him. I worry he becomes a middle six forward who PKs for you. If you're the Seattle Cracking and you're picking it too, can you take Maddie Baneers knowing that that's a pretty legitimate evaluation of him? Like, yeah, he's going to be a Beauhorvette. He's a whatever. He's Boerbett, maybe. Or maybe like, maybe it's because he's a Michigan guy.

like a Dylan Larkin was kind of like he projected his two number two center maybe he's a one but he's a two and in you know on a Stanley Cup winning team like these are good players bohoer vats good player I don't know it doesn't get you really fired up with these top two picks if that's one two maybe top four top seconds I think I think the guy that benefits from from all this stuff is Kent Johnson like he there's something about him there's something about him based on the stuff I've read where it might be a boom or bus pick. I think there's certain. It seems like there's,

it seems like there's concerns, you know, about, about maybe the consistency level. I'm pulling up, pulling up the quotes. Right here that Corey got a lot of skill and creativity in his game with good instincts. His projection would worry me due to his skating and the fact that he is a perimeter player. So he's not, he's not a great screen. I've heard,

I've heard that from a couple, in a couple of different spots about him. Looks flashy. He doesn't always accomplish a lot. So it's like, you know, he's got, he's got this skill, he pops on video, whatever to some extent. But is this, is the substance there? Like, I'm not, I'm not sure. Pure skill is right at the top of the draft, right?

That's what, that's what, that's what, that's what everyone says about him. And he's the one who, if you're looking for a higher upside pick, I think, potentially, where it's like maybe some boom or bust potential. But, you know, he's got the skill level that that we typically see out of, out of forwards at the top of drafts. Also, unfortunately, another, another Michigan man. That's a shame. But, well, I was just a highlight.

I mean, he's the guy that is, you know, the projection for you. The William Eklund, who came right after that in the piece is, is the one for me where he is, like, people talking about how dynamic he is. He has the it factor. All these things. He's got, like, I just wonder. He's got the skating. Like, he's, he's small, but he can.

move. Yeah, that's not a good call. Aren't that, isn't that what you're doing? Like, trying to get the superstar at the top of the draft? Not the guy that maybe plays on your PK? And I love Maddie Baneers. I've seen, I've been following it. Like, this is not, I'm just talking straight philosophy. Maybe Ecklin is the guy that makes sense for Seattle. You know, I think, I think if you're the cracking, just coming in as an expansion team,

like, take a little bit of a swing. Like, I don't know if I want someone who's like, yeah, he'll be a good second line center, right? Like, go, go for, go for skill. Go for, go for talent. All right, we're joined by Tampa Bay Lightning Beat writer for the athletic Joe Smith, who has been grinding it out now for two straight summers. I saw that tweet from Mark Lazarus and I was mad A, that I didn't write it, but B, I'm glad somebody did because, Joe, your coverage has been remarkable and more than that, your stamina. How are you holding up? I'm hanging in there. You know, sleep has been on the short supply and our AC went out last night. So it's just part of the whole process. Are you staying safe down

there? Yeah. I get nervous this time here. Yeah, like, you know, it looks beautiful outside now. I think it's the calm or the storm, but it's supposed to tropical storm today. So, and then maybe tomorrow. But so hopefully everybody is safe and their travels down here. A lot of writers coming down back down to Tampa for game five. But yeah, it's been a, it's been one of the most unique challenges for all of us in our jobs the last couple years. And I never thought I'd be, you know, covering a cup puncher of my dad's couch last year in September and then covering, you know, last night it was like at the watch party

a thousand miles away, watching fans and community game. You know, I think we're all trying to find different ways to get through these challenges. But it's been, it's been awesome to try to come up with the best stuff, you know, in the circumstances and you know, Mark's comments is really, really awesome, but it's also shared with all the rest of our teammates too. You know, Arpin and Mark Antoine doing great with the Montreal stuff.

But it's, you know, it's the most fun time of year for all of us. Usually it's more fun when you're on the road and traveling and being part of that rhythm of a series. So you kind of missed that. Like I had at 15 when they went to the cup final against Chicago and some games have been losses they had along the way. Those were the most fun memories you have as a writer and you feel like you're actually part of it.

You feel like you feel like you feel the, the vibe of the room and you have those side conversations and you can get that thing where now it's mostly over Zoom or phone calls or whatever you can do. So Joe, that all that said about how good your coverage has been, I disagree with this story you wrote yesterday where you blamed the power play and not the mayor, Jane Castor for the lightning loss who said who during an interview said that they should try to win in five at home, which I get the sentiment. But that's, I mean, I mean, I feel like you're, the hockey gods still like that, Jane, Mayor Jane. But, you know, maybe you feel like it was a power play, but I don't know, defend your position.

How many minutes did Jay Castro play last night? I was, I was just about to say, I was about to say, Mayor Castor did a terrible job clearing the net front there on the, on the, yeah. So why did she not cover Josh Anderson that last, the last play here, you know, it wasn't Yon Rootsett there. It was the Jay Castor, you know. Maybe she hit the post, too, on that Kutraub. She would have buried that. I get the whole idea of the hockey gods, and I get the whole idea of the karma and the jinx or whatever.

I don't get the sentence to Montreal Canadiens down to the last game of their season and we're fighting a bit of lives. We're like, well, listen, the mayor of Tampa said, you know what? Let them win one. We're going to get one tonight and we'll go to Tampa up with game five. But I understand the storyline in the sense. And I just, you know, I've never talked to Jane Castro before my life, so I don't have any. Yeah, sounds like you're pretty defensive over Joe.

I don't know. You said you on the campaign trail. Yeah, we got to, we got to look up the campaign donation records for Joe. I'm going to. Where's that link? Oh, my gosh. Yeah, no, it's, I'm sure, like, maybe she probably was, was she bitter tongue last day after they lost that game.

But, you know, I think the whole idea is that the, like, fans haven't got the chance to see any of the playoff games last year and the cup run haven't seen them you know had that success and and so i think that there was just a noticeable like you know buzz and energy of the thought of having the chance to do it outside of a bubble situation where their families could be there too yeah well i saw the video that you posted on twitter of you know the fans and like it was it's such an awesome scene and i get like i i actually said that i'm like i I hope they'd win at home. It's a risky thing.

Like, I don't think you try to throw a game or, I mean, clearly they were trying to win the game. But, I mean, you, like, these are going to be, if they win another Stanley Cup, like, this is the moment in time for these players, they're going to remember the rest of their lives. And, you know, I think we've all been on the ice in that moment where they're passing around the cup. And, you know, I was telling my kids about that. Like, there's just something so special about not just the players raising the cup, but the family right next to them. you know we've seen you know T.J. Oshy's dad and those clips I like it's so cool to see that

and the lightning you know like everybody has it's been different and like I you know if they can win in five and have that I just think it's that's almost like the cherry on top and it's risky you don't want this going back to Montreal I'm not saying don't win that game but I get the sentiment

I was actually I said the same thing so lightning fans can blame me to it So, yeah, it comes a problem if they lose game five and then the mayor asks for game for game seven, right? She just doubles down. She just goes to be a little bit more on them in game six. We like to have that game seven here. What's better than game seven at home? You told me before the season, I'd have one game to win the Stanley Cup and it'd be at home.

Like, I would take that in a minute. Yeah, she's in any coach and every, ever. She's in the locker. She's in the locker room, like, unscrewing part of Vasilevsky skate or whatever. She graduates and, like, actual trying to, like, sabotage them. She might lose a powerful ally, Jeff Vick, then. He's a pretty powerful guy in this area. I've heard.

I'm sure she wouldn't want to do that. So, after that game, Dom dropped his cup probabilities, like, the wet blanket that Dom is. And it was, like, monster. You know, everybody's, like, jumping up and down. Great win for the Canadians. It was awesome. It was exciting.

It was a great game. Like, Sean and I were talking Joe before you hopped on. Like, it was just one of those, like, shared moments. Like, everybody seemed to be tuning in to see a cup be awarded. And Montreal does what they, like, they always, they do seem to fight back. And, you know, but then Dom drops his probabilities. I think it was like, they now went from 4% to win the Stanley Cup to 6%. And it's like, congratulations.

All right. Yeah, good work. And, like, what, I mean, we've seen Vaseliski's numbers. after a playoff loss. Like, is there any concern level? I don't get a concern level, like with the players and team themselves. You know, Cooper said that, A, like, they were in the meal room last night after the game at the Bell Center and they already turned the page.

They were already kind of moving forward. And, you know, they're 13 after losses left about post seasons. And that's a pretty big sample size of the course of a playoff run. You know, Vassel has been tremendous in those games. And it's not going to guarantee they're going to win game five, but they have the kind of the resolve and the mindset and where they almost like hate losing one than they like winning. And I think that they're a good self-correcting and, look, they don't need to reinvent the wheel up for last night's game. They played it well enough, I thought, to,

to win, uh, the game for the most part. Like, they had so many chances in the beginning of the game could have been three nothing in the first 10 minutes. Uh, had you carry price not played the way he did. So I don't think there's a little bit of concern. I think, you know, if you're Montreal, you have a little reason to feel better about yourselves, considering the line of changes, the way that they played. Carrie Price, probably like Carrie Price that we've known for a number of years as opposed to the forestry games where he was pretty pedestrian. So I think that if you're watching at all, you feel a little bit better. Like now you've got in the first one, you saw some of the recipe to do it. And you've been able to stop a power play. It's been pretty down to this postseason.

But I don't think the lightning are going back to Tampa or fighting back today other than worried about the storm and hopefully concerned about their plot in the situation. I saw a tweet from Emily Kaplan last night that blew my mind. mind. This made the rounds. I'm sure you guys, I'm sure you guys saw it. It's that in the final, the lightning have scored 11 goals within 10 seconds of a of a turnover by the Canadians, which is mind-boggling to me. I mean, you've watched all of all of their games, certainly more than any of us. Is that been like a home? Like, have they been that opportunistic all season long? Like, is that, is that been a thing for them? Because I can't say one or the other.

it's part of their game. I don't know if it's been that quite of it, a clip of percentage-wise. Like, I think you're seeing a lot of times in this final or most of the mistakes that Montreal's made has gone into their net. And, you know, it takes amazing execution. Like the Yanni Gorton line turns back over to the blue line. All of a sudden goes down, shot, shot, tip, goal. Like, you know, a lot of things have to go right for that to happen.

But they're a really good counterattacking teams. So that's not out of the element for them. But that just shows like Montreal played really well. I thought in the game two and they could have won that game, but make a couple of mistakes and all of a sudden, you know, the lightning is just too good of a team that they can make so many skilled guys from the, you know, Tyler Johnson's in their fourth line center. Right. You know, Matthews would be a heck of a play last night at Pat Maroon's goal.

Like, you know, there's just not really a way where you can say, okay, this is a, we can get a break at this line or let's, you know, find a way to take a breath here. Like, they have guys all the way through that can score. That, that maroon goal, you know, on the faith from Joseph, I thought that was. is it? Like that, I, when that happened, I was like, okay, we're, we're done here. Like, the narrative lines up. You get Pat Maroons scoring a big goal because of course. So to see that, so to see the game, you know, play out the way that it did, I was, I was shocked, honestly. I think that's part of the reason that, you know, the game ended up, it defied expectations,

especially after that. Yeah, I mean, I think a lot of us are getting, you know, writing a cup waiting story, ready to go. Like, you know, just because once you saw there on the power play for four minutes going into overtime. They're like, okay, well, someone's probably going to gore here, like a very good chance with the way that they were, the talent they have on, you know, on their power play. So I think it did, as it was a bit of surprise in overtime and give Montreal credit, they killed it off.

And it didn't make Shea Weber be in the box of shame during the last, put on the whole of the season. And then, you know, Joel Anderson made a heck of a play, individual effort to win that game. Do you have, if Tampa wins in game five, Do you have your consmite vote figured out? Well, I had to you as of last time in the time in the third period. Oh, that's right.

That's right. Did you get the email, the Delapina email? Yeah, like, I did last year, too. I was like covered. I was trying to write this, the game, the story, did they order to win the cup. And I was like, you know, it turns like, you even proxmite. I'm like, oh, crap. I forgot this, you know?

And so you ended up being a deciding vote for probably Victor Hedman then, which I thought was deserving. But, but, but yeah, last night I had, I was so tough between the top two choices, um, between Vaselowski and Kuturov to me. and that John Cooper mentioned this morning that Ryan McGowan should get some votes for Kahnline which I wouldn't disagree with in a normal year. I mean, he's been

their best defense, but he's been unbelievable. The play made last night especially, but I think it's right now it's between Veslovsky and Future off and I voted for one last night with a caveat on the other one. Mine was like a janga puzzle when I would turn it. I'd be like, if this guy gets an assist before it in the last five minutes,

swap it with this guy. brutal, which is ridiculous because we're talking you on a three-month playoff run. You're deciding it on the last 10 minutes of a game. Like, Jesus. Well, I asked like three different, you know, like Hall of Famer yesterday or people. I was just texting them. Like, hey, like, who thinks who was going to be 88 or 86?

And they got different answers from each of them. Yeah. One said this. And so I think it legitimately could go either way. I don't think either of those guys would be upset if the other person got it, if they won the Stanley Cup. You know, you wanted to go to the guy that's most deserving. You don't want to just have recancy bias of he had a great game five and later this.

You know, you don't want to put a lot. forget the first early rounds. And I think it's easy to forget. Or that late assist. That's what I was like to be. That's it. And tipped it. You know, point is like a third person in this thing.

But he was, even he was a huge part of why they got to the final. Like, you know, game one against Florida, that's a turning point for them in that series. Like, he scores the minute left. They win five four.

And all of a sudden they, you know, get some mojo going. Oh, man. It was so funny. It was funny to watch the, the, the,

the, the McDonough sequence that led to that goal. It was like, that's what reminded everybody. like, oh yeah, he's pretty, he's pretty good. Did we, did we kind of forget? There was a lot of those tweets last. Everybody was like, seriously.

Hey, Ryan McDonough is still really good. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I forgot about Ryan McDonough, which is so, it's wild. He's had a bizarre career because he comes in, comes in with the Rangers. He's 20 or however old he was at, at that point. And now, Montreal death deck too. Right. Exactly.

Exactly. Terrible, terrible, terrible, terrible trade. And he's about to be a two-time cup winner playing major, major, major. major minutes and having a major role and everyone's like, oh, yeah, yeah, McDonough. He plays for Tampa. He's still pretty good. Old man, Ryan McDonough. He's played a thousand playoff games, I think, in his career.

I guess up to a thousand out of time. That was his thousand. Did he get a stick or anything for that? Or jet ski? I'm pretty sure. I'm pretty sure I covered 800 of them, by the way. For sure. It's amazing how many people even hear the expansion draft come and they're like, you know,

fans are like, oh, just expose McDonough and get that. $6.7, $5 million. I'm like, he's their best, he's been there, you know, he plays lockdown, shut down minutes. Like, you're not going to, you know, expose that guy. Like, you know, so I think, you know, fans want to put the money-making thing like, oh, it's where that contract. Well, Seattle will take and make them their captain and a top-paring defense minute.

And that's, if I were. And then you have to replace Ryan McDonough. That's always, that's always. It's 6.75. It's not like he's making 10. No, no. Market-wise, he's like, he might be underpaid at this point. Like, for God.

So I was like, no, they think it'll keep their four defense spin and try to go for another cup next year. I think that's what they'll probably do. And then, you know, you have to lose a forward there. You have to lose one. But, but yeah, that's just one of the things where you're like, people don't realize or appreciate it until you watch them in the playoff run of like, okay, you can play in the most important minutes. Richard Heaven's, you know, best in the world. And, you know, yeah, was on a Norris ballot.

But, like, he's one of those guys that, I mean, never was a Norris though, true, but he's a, he plays with the guy who does. Right. Yeah. Part of the team. So I think to lose him would be. you know, a big blow and you need to find somebody else to play shut down minutes, right? And that wouldn't free up a headman or a certain.

We're not exposing Ryan, McDonald. We're just, we can, we can, the, the trio of us can make that decision on behalf of Julian Bree's. I want to hear, I want to hear from the contingent of lightning fans that think that that's a viable, a viable idea. To get rid of six million dollars? Let's, hey, we need that six million to, I don't do what? To go, to go, to go find right. He's Ryan McDonough. You're not going to find him on the open market for less than six point, you know. What's Douggy Hamilton going to get?

You know, like, what are these guys going to get? Yeah. Who do you want? Dougie Hamilton at 9 or Ryan McDonough at 675? Yeah. How old, Sean, real quick. How old is Ryan McDonough? Oh, my God.

Ryan McDonough is probably 29. Oh, no, he's 32. He's 32. I don't know. right I've every time is collapsing on itself I've lost I've lost I've lost two years here so yeah that makes sense it makes sense that I was off by two years is he an Olympian you guys is he a lock US Olympian if the rosters are named today because I mean stand on moments watching these games presumably I don't know the rest of the USA roster I would I would imagine him and again

Blake Coleman could be a new team USA I think potentially if you're I mean looking for like a Bottom six guy who can play penalty kill all situations. But I think, I mean, I think Ryan McDonough is a former Olympian. I think he still is playing at a really high level. And if you want a guy with experience and leadership, and I think, you know, he could still, you know, I don't want him up against, in some of the Canada's top lines. Totally.

Yeah. Blake Coleman, too. He's just the classic example. On how many other teams, is he a second line winger? at 20. I don't, and you just go down the lineup. They have so many guys like that that are, you know, playing down a level just because of how deep they are. Like, you have Matthew Joseph come in. He's their 13 forward. He's only playing because Kallorns out. And he makes a pass that you, yesterday, that like you see, you see once every few weeks, right? Like he's that, it's cliche to say at this point because that's Tampa's one of their defining traits is that forward depth. But I think, I think we saw that in actually. last night with Joseph, at least. Well, I look at that. That whole third line was in the penalty box for like six minutes at the time, right?

They couldn't get the gourd line out of the penalty back, no stoppage just to play. So they were stuck in there. And so that's where the fourth line got some more shifts, you know, Maroon and Joseph of that. And so then all of a sudden that great play, Joseph in the middle of the ice, and then setting up Maroon. And I think for me, what makes lighting special too is the way that they're all, you know, feel like they're connected one to 23 and that there were a guy that didn't play

for two rounds and all of a sudden he comes in and has that comfortable confidence to step up and make a play like that, you know. Alex Volkov didn't play for 64 days in the bubble last year, was putting for game six to the cup final and drew a penalty on his first shift and they, you know, won the game, you know, like so. I think finding ways to get the most out of guys, even if they're not, you know, Tyler Johnson playing eight minutes a night when you used to carry this team to the cup final and buying in and then playing his best hockey.

Like, you don't win without everybody else kind of doing that. And obviously, they were winning because of the star players are being their star players in Vasilevsky and Petrov and wanting to be MVP. But getting those other guys to be able to contribute is kind of one of their defining traits in my opinion. All right. Let's wrap up with this because I am obsessed with Olympic roster building. I found our projections. I know. I know you are. I can project an Olympic roster 20 years out if I have to.

It's my skill. And I may. Now that we mentioned it. All right. I found our last time we did this. It was, I don't know, like February. We projected the 2022 Olympic U.S. rosters. You have to remove one of these defensemen to put Ryan McDone on.

This is from my projection. All right. Quinn Hughes, Seth Jones, John Carlson, Jacob Slavin, Ryan Souter, Charlie McAvoy. Seth Jones. Do any of those? Oh, Seth Jones. Yep. Yep.

I can't believe I didn't have Zach Wrenski. I thought I, by law, had to have Zacharancy on my own. Your son, Zach Rensky? Yeah. My son, Zacharanz, I'm stunned. I didn't have money. What's the last pair there? We said it was the...

It was Suter and McAvoy. McAvoy's on. That's not even... That's low for him. What do you... I mean, I know Suter has a bunch of experience, too. What do you replace... Yeah, maybe you're only taking one of those two, maybe, theory.

Yeah, I think... Yeah. I think, yeah. I think, yeah. I think, yeah, I think it's hard to take McAvoy off there. It's hard to take... Slavement off of there. It's hard to take.

Obviously, accuses the future right there. It's cool not to like Seth Jones, though. I don't know if you heard, Joe. I just like Ryan McDonough more than Seth Jones. That's fine. I mean, when you watch a guy play all the time,

you probably appreciate what they do more. I mean, I don't watch Seth Jones. I know. I think he's getting a lot of, you know, as a criticism or slack. But I also find it hard to hit a guy too much after a pandemic year or at least last season. Some guys handle it better than others.

Some guys were able to. So I find it hard to put a lot of stock in the last year and a half because of what's been going on. That being said, I don't know. I'd rush to give him $10 million a year. But I think I don't think sometimes that there's a reason for some of these things. But I still think McDonovie would fit on that blue line. You know, I'm not Sam Bowman.

But I think that he'd be a guy that if you want to win and go up against Canada's top lines and their power play, which would be like McDavid Crosby. I don't know. Good luck. Bickening. Suter's probably the answer. It's probably Ryan Suter. And, you know, the winning argument, like, as much as Ryan Suter has been a good soldier for the Americans and done everything.

But he's not getting any younger and doesn't have that resume that Ryan McDonough has. I would probably swap that out right now if I was doing that. Ryan Suter was a tough call. I just, I wanted a veteran there. And Ryan McDonough fills that, that boy. Yeah, definitely, that'd be my call. But I'm also arrogant. So I guess I got to.

Oh, my gosh. So arrogant. Oh, my gosh, the worst. I know everything. And so I, I was surprised you to say, I'm better than Stan Bowman when you said, I'm not Stan Bowman. Oh, me, my sweet. With your Michigan pedigree.

Probably, yeah. You probably are in some ways. But probably, maybe. Uh, Joe, thanks for doing this. Hey, no problem. Thanks for having me. And maybe we'll do it again later this week or the summertime or before the expansion draft when the lightning doesn't expose Ryan McDonough.

We can do it again. Oh, my gosh. If the mayor doesn't blow it. We'll see you guys for game seven. Oh, all right. Perfect. Thank you much for having me. I'm sorry for interrupting the first part of it.

It was great. Anytime. Thanks, Joe. Take care. All right. That was great, Sean. Joe has been, I don't know how he even has the energy to do that. That's, I think on some level probably, I know he wants to be in the building and wants to

traveling because that's great. But like, he does, that that does help, I think, with the grind a little bit maybe. That's exhausting all that flying back and forth and all that. I mean, you mentioned Laz's tweet yesterday. The work he's done with the access that he's given and just the sheer tonnage of stuff he's had right over the last year's, yeah, it's a machine. here's what I would say if you're like a journalism student and you're curious and how to to cover a team I like read Joe's work and I'm not just saying that because he's you know it works for the athletic but what Joe is really good at is finding people outside of the spotlight to tell the story right it's calling the junior coach and finding out Steve Eisenman called him right before trading for one of his players and it's it's finding little nuggets like that that make for a great lead and because I've you know I've heard from a lot of reporters that say oh it's

been so hard with just Zooms and and it has been and and that's a really hard way to cover a professional sports league but um joe has just continued to find on earth great stories because he's relentless and his reporting he's a really good lead writer and we've talked we've talked about that too i i think here if if you start off if you start off strong the rest of the rest of it doesn't matter baby you can get it you can get as shitty as you want to find me like kick a quote in the middle the middle's a mess Start strong, finish strong. Who cares?

So as I sit right now, I am probably a half hour away from Novi, Michigan, which was the site of the party where Matisse Kivlennox died. And it was such crushing news to wake up to or to find out early yesterday morning and kind of a holiday here in the States or observed holiday. And what's always, especially heartbreaking with something like this, what really stood out to me, Sean, was the such genuine outpouring of somebody who, you know, who was on the verge of making it, who had worked so hard to get to where he was at the age of 24 as a goalie was going to get an opportunity. You know, everyone believes Columbus is going to trade one of their goalies was on the verge. And what I found so, it was heartbreaking, but also, I don't know, like every single person that talked about him talked about the smile on his face. It just seemed like such a genuine, like it was tragic no matter what. But, you know, Aaron Portsline mentioned it in an initial tweet. Like, the incredible kitty was.

And what really got me was a tweet from Gordon Miller who was talking about. TSN, of course, always covers the world championships. And he said that the most recent world championships, his mom dropped off pastries and treats every day for the Latvian broadcasters and invited the Canadian broadcasters to sample some. And he, you know, that's just the reminder of, you know, this goes well beyond a hockey story. This is a family that is heartbroken right now. And I just, I wanted to not go to this whole podcast without recognizing that crushing story. And not only that, just highlighting the family, it seemed like he was such a great kid, Sean. And you hear something simple like that, like waking up and making pastries or getting pastries and distributing them to people covering, you know, a game in your area.

Like, that says all you need to know about his mom, his family and the kind of kid he was. And, you know, we're thinking of the Columbus Blue Jackets. We're thinking of his friends and family. And I just wanted to acknowledge, you know, the kid he, he, he, he's. He was and just, you know, hang on to your, hang on to your loved ones. I think it was Yomalkeleine who tweeted that out and it's so true in moments like that. Absolutely. You know, you see, you see the, whatever, the anecdotes about, about his mom and how close she,

she was to his career and how close she was to her son. And she was, you know, because of that tweet by Gord, that she's the one I'm thinking, I'm thinking of today more than, more than anybody else. Yeah, it's sad news, man. And it's always, it's always hard. But when you see someone who's, who's that young and, you know, and is, is, is, is, is, is it's, it makes it even worse. Yeah. But there is, you know, and if you, if you, if you want to counterbalance for that, I, I think, I think, and I know that's not how life works necessarily, but it, but I read, I read Sean Shapiro's latest story about Stephen Johns on the 4th of July.

And Sean's covered John's, you know, battles with concussion syndrome and depression, whatever. Shapiro's been there since the start of it. He's written a lot of really good stuff. And he's written a few things about John's, you know, rollerblade mental miles journey to kind of cap off his career where he went across the United States. And he hooked up with Bobby Ryan in Idaho last week. And Sean caught up with both those guys. those are two great dudes who've been through a lot. And I thought that, you know, it was, It's a, it's a, it's a great story. It's an uplifting story. And, you know, it's, it's good to see that

those two have each other's back, really. And again, Shapiro's just kind of documented every, every bit of this along the way. So that, so that, that made me feel good. And it's, it's a story that's, that's worth your time, not just because of John's's's journey and, and, in, what comes next for him, but, you know, really kind of in tandem with Bobby Ryan, who's overcome so, so, so much over the last, over the last 20, 20 years of a, of his life. So that brought some, that brought some, some sunshine to a, to kind of a, kind of a tough, a tough couple days in the hockey world. It made me feel better.

Hope, hope it, hope it's true for you too. Yeah. No, I'm glad. Thanks for highlighting that. We got to get Stephen Johns on here. That would be, he's on my very short list right now. Western PA legend, baby. Elwood City's finest.

Got to, got to, got to make it happen. Here's one thing. And so I want to highlight if, if you are subscribed to the athletic, and you have the app on your phone, you can comment on our podcast. Sean and I read all the comments. Good and bad and mostly good, except for when people misunderstand my thoughts on the worlds,

which is, we actually clarified it. And then somebody said, oh, thank you for clarifying it. Tragic. I just assume that everybody, everybody automatically knows what a freak you are about that tournament. Oh, my gosh. And so, you know, as we get into the off season, it's easy to lean on guests like Joe Smith

and people covering what's happening in the moment. but we want to have unique guests on here. And Stephen Johns is an obvious one for he's been in the news and he's great. You guys had Nate Thompson, one of the commentsers off your episode last week, I highlighted how great an interview that was. He was awesome. And that he was, that's great. Like somebody who's insightful.

So if you listening right now and you're like, hey, I think this person would be really good, hopefully American, because that's what we're doing here. Put them in the comments. We will, him or her, we've got, and we will, definitely get them on. Jeff DeMette is our producer. It is the best in the business of getting people lined up and on the podcast. We got also, since we've last talks, Sean, we got Don Granado a job. Yes. I think it was his appearance on this podcast. Not we. Me. Oh, you? I thought I did a good job campaigning. But all right. You.

Yes. Terry and Kim saw the way he saw the way he coached me up to clean up my room and close my dressers and we're like, we're like, this is, this is the guy we need. This is, this is the guy to shepherd rebuild number four or whatever there. Yes, not Casey Middle Stats growth. No, no, no, no, no, no. It was Sean Gentile's growth under Don Granato. And here I am in a new apartment with closed dresser drawers. That's because, that's because, uh, you look like you're in a dining room or something now. I don't even know you. I'm in a third bedroom, yeah. So, uh, third bedroom. All right, uh, Vanderbilt got making, making that athletic money, baby. I'm rich.

Another comment I wanted to highlight as we go through them because I was out last week, and I don't know if we talked about this. We have banned a few phrases. Galaxy brain has been banned. I think we'd banned yeah and the no is a very Midwestern tick. And Jonathan N writes, Craig Bands, yeah, no, and avoids breaking it two seconds later by saying yes, no on a technicality. Is that true?

I said yes, no. You know that. Yeah, that's, that's all part of your plan. That's you, man. Finding loopholes and exploiting them. You are the, you are the Julian. What's the technicality on Galaxy Brain? I'm,

are you going to take a Julian Breezwine shot at the end? Yeah, you're the Julian Breezebois of this, of this podcast, yeah. Can't, can't knock it. Can't knock the hustle, baby. It's different. Is gentlemen sweep something we have to ban if that becomes a thing if the temporary lightning went in five? Well, we had the big debate somewhere over, over what actually constitutes a

gentleman sweep. like what what game it is if it's the if it's the fourth if it's the third game or the fourth game but yeah I think we need to be we need to be cognizant in that one for sure oh my goodness and a couple a couple of other things highly Adam Fox Norris trophy winner joined Scott Burnside and Pierre LeBron they do they get good guests over there on Wednesdays the two man advantage edition it's almost like Pierre's got a roll the decks I've I've heard that about those guys they make some they make some calls they got some numbers Judd Brackett meanwhile, we just leave it up to poor Jeff.

We're like, hey, Jeff, you know who we need? Stephen Johns. Best of luck. Good luck. Well, see you later. Judd Brackett is joining Mike Russo on straight from the source and Mark Lazarus, join Ian Mendez and Haley Salvin. A lot going on in the Chicago Blackhawks beat.

Laz has been on top of it. Good and bet. but Lazz has just put on a clinic in Scott Powers, who was on parental leave, by the way, or was. I didn't even know. I didn't even know that. Nobody knew because he was covering that team so well. Because he may as well not have been on it.

I know. And I'm not encouraging that. Take your time, everybody. But there's just been so much news coming out on the Blackhawks. And Las joined the Monday episode of Ian and Haley. the one that's way too Canadian. And I think they are trying to tap into the... I didn't love it.

In fact, Lazz was on the guest, I'm like, hey, can we get Lazz? Because clearly, you know, they'll probably get, you know, Arpin or some Canadian on there. And they went to the U.S. They crossed the border to bring them in, which I didn't love. But unfair. Stay out of our territory, Burnside. Stay out of our territory, Burnside. All right, that's...

That is a wrap. I want to thank Joe Smith for coming in and giving a great analysis. this, thanks Joe for doing it. I know it's so, you've got so much going on when you're covering a final, and there's a hurricane barreling in and all of the things that he's dealing with right now. So thanks, Joe, for that. Sean, good work out of you. Thanks.

Thanks, coach. Thanks for not having Ryan Clark replace me permanently. I appreciate it. I was a little nervous. We'll see, we'll see, man. It's only, it's only, it's only been a week. You go another Vegas trip. It might be curtains for you, my boy.

Ah, my guess. All right, Johnny. We'll talk to you. You know.