The Athletic Hockey Show - NHL agent Dan Milstein on Russian players safety, Maple Leaf goaltending woes, Chicago Blackhawks hire within with Kyle Davidson named GM & NHL's puck and player tracking

Episode Date: March 2, 2022

Rob Pizzo from CBC Sports and Jesse Granger and Sara Civian from the Athletic welcome NHL agent Dan Milstein from the Gold Star Management group to discuss the effects the Russian invasion of the Ukraine is having on the Russian born players that he represents who play in the NHL. The roundtable discusses the IIHF and the NHL's decision to suspend association and involvement with Russia due to the invasion of Ukraine, the backlash that Alexander Ovechkin has felt because of his support for Vladimir Putin and what that might do to the great 8's legacy.We discuss the struggles of Jack Campbell in Toronto and what the Maple Leafs should do in net moving forward, Kyle Davidson being named the General Manager in Chicago and if the Martin St. Louis 'bump' in Montreal will hurt the Habs draft position and rebuild.Plus, we tackle the NHL's puck and player tracking, with broadcasts adding "face-off win probability" graphics, and we ask Twitter, what is the next NHL stat that you want to see on your TV screen. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Everybody, welcome to another edition of the Athletic Hockey Show, the Wednesday Roundtable Edition. I am Rob Pizzo from CBC Sports, alongside, as always, Sarah Sibian and Jesse Granger. How are we guys? Doing great. Sarah doesn't want to answer. I don't know if that means she's not doing great or she just didn't want to answer or... I'm back on the road for the first time in a while and you forget how little you sleep. So I'm just like rolling with the punches here.

But I'm grateful to be back. and now we can do more in-person interviews and everything's great. Yeah, and you're in Detroit, right? I saw your tweet about love in Detroit. I haven't been there in a while, but it's always just a fun city to go to. One of my favorites, a true hockey town, you know? Don't know how to transition into this, but I'm just going to just go right into it. Obviously, the big story this week.

It was quite literally hours after we posted our show last week that what pretty much the entire world feared was going to happen, happened. And Russia invaded Ukraine. And it's been a crazy week, guys, as you know. And I think stories like this force everyone to do kind of two things. One, everyone just stops and sports kind of become a little bit, I don't want to say trivial, but, you know, they seem secondary. But the other thing when it gets this big is it forces the sporting world to not only kind of stop and take notice, but to take action. And we've seen. seen everybody sort of do that sort of thing, the IOC, UEFA, FIFA, and then the NHL. We'll go through a little bit of what everybody did, but let me just ask you guys,

just as you're like me, you cover this sport for a living, everything's hockey, hockey, hockey, but how much does this kind of make you step back and go, man, this is what we do. We're pretty lucky to do what we do, but it seemed quite secondary. Yeah, I feel like you, the one thing I'm trying to be wary of is I don't have to have a take about everything I'm not an expert on, you know, so I can acknowledge the pain and the suffering Ukrainians are going through right now and how grateful, like you said it best, how grateful I am to be doing what I'm doing and just kind of reflect on there's bigger things in life, you know. Yeah, for sure. I think social media has allowed us to see a lot more of what's going on than

we have in other conflicts throughout history. So it was like an immediate like, oh my gosh, like this, like, I don't know. To me, it really hit home, like, seeing videos and seeing the stories of people in real time and it happening. I agree with you, Rob. It was like, it was a big time, uh, wake up call, I guess in terms of like, yeah, we've got it pretty good here. I'll, I'll even, I'll even admit last night during the national anthem, I'm standing there. And like, it felt different to me watching the national anthem just like, I feel like it's something that I'm usually like, all right, this is like, come on, let's get over with this. And watching what has happened over there makes me a little more grateful, I guess, of like, how easy we have things and how easy our lives are.

And yeah, I want to mention a little later on in the show, we're going to be speaking to NHL player agent Dan Milstein, who not only represents a huge chunk of Russian players in the NHL, but was born in Ukraine and, you know, had to escape the Soviet regime right at the end before, you know, communism fell. And he's got some interesting takes. And he's been talking a lot about what some of his clients are going to. through because we've had other major events like this before, guys, but I don't really know one that affected sports this much where organizations were forced to act, like I said earlier. I mean, there are many players from Russia in the National Hockey League. And we saw all these organizations take actions, and then it started to trickle into hockey. The IAAHF suspended both Russia and Belarus pretty much until further notice, withdrew Russia's hosting for the

2023 World Junior Hockey Championship. The NHL announced they're suspending all their relationships and business partners in Russia. And then you bring in Alexander Ovetkin in that whole aspect. Again, as Sarah mentioned, we're far from experts on this sort of thing.

But we are quote unquote experts. I'm putting quotes on there for myself, not you guys. On hockey and how this league is to be run, and that's our job. And Alexander Ovechkin kind of came out and said, I'm a hockey player. I'm not a politician. You know, hopefully everything will be resolved soon. I'm just a hockey player. I'm just a hockey player. And it's been a while since I've

seen the hockey world divided on something like this. I saw a lot of people saying, yeah, he's just a hockey player. He's got family in Russia. He's got to worry about their safety. And then I saw other people saying, well, he wasn't just a hockey player when he was standing on stage, lifting up Vladimir Putin's hand and endorsing him and saying everything he does is great. I wanted to get your reaction on what you thought this week for Alexander Ovechkin, I guess is what I'm asking. Sarah? Yeah, I've actually done way more research into how Ovechkin has kind of supported Putin in the past, and he's done kind of a lot of supporting of him. So at first I was kind of like, I don't know, he has family there, like, let's cut him some slack.

but now looking into kind of everything he's done and he stood against Ukraine at some point, too. It's kind of like, okay, I get why people would want to cut ties with him right now. I do take issue to all Russians, like cutting ties with all Russian players because Andrei Svetnikov has been here since he was a kid. He doesn't, he's not a politician, but he hasn't ever spoken out in support of Putin or anything like that. And then you have Panarin going against Putin. And so I feel like at the end of the day, it's just a, like, nuanced subject that we just can't look at it black and white.

Yeah, I completely agree with Sarah. My thoughts are 99% of the Russian players shouldn't, like, I was, there were people tweeting me. Like, should you ask, like, there are people tweeting me, don't ask the Russian players this. Like, I've gained into Don't have to. And then there are people saying, oh, you have to. There's people saying you shouldn't. My thoughts are 99% of the Russian players don't need to be asked this. It's, they're hockey players.

This has nothing to do with, like, they had no decision making in this. They just happened to be from that country. But Alex Ovechkin is different. And you can't, you can't take all the good and be Putin's buddy and do all this promoting and all that. And then all of a sudden, the second something like this happens, you can't just say, oh, no, I'm a hockey player. Like, I'm not a politician.

I do think you can't, you can't play both sides of that. So I completely agree with Sarah that. Now, if Ovechkin wants to wait a few weeks and, like, make sure his. his family is safe. I'm totally okay with that. And like these people that are wondering, oh, how come these Russian players aren't making statements? Well, their family safety should be first before anything else. So like, I totally understand Ovechkin saying like, hey, give me a, I'm going to talk about it, but give me a minute. But I do think eventually he needs to address this. Unlike the other guys who I think have no business being asked this, it's, we, we wouldn't go

around asking all the American players if, if the U.S. invaded somebody. Like, just because you're from a country, doesn't mean you have to give your thoughts on that country invading another country. Or you get a vote on, you know, invade or don't invade. I get it. I, I, everything you just said I'm on board with. I mean, this is Alexander Ovechkin, who all you have to do is Google Ovechkin, Putin, and click images.

And you'll see a whole bunch of different instances where he is endorsing them. He's been very pro-Putin and Sarah, I'm looking forward to seeing what you do with this because, you know, all of these things are slowly coming to light things. maybe weren't in headlines in the past in regards to what he's done to support Vladimir Putin. And then you see now, you know, companies are starting to try to distance themselves. CCM has said they're not going to use Alexander Ovechkin or any Russian players in any of their global marketing for now. It's never really affected sports like this.

Like, you know, I don't know why, but I thought about 9-11 during this whole week. And that's just a matter of, okay, everyone's going to band together. And the only thing that was really affecting sports was, do they cancel games? And when do they come back? This is different. And I'm really looking forward to speaking to Dan Milstein because I know he has mentioned publicly that some of his players are getting death threats. And as you mentioned, Jesse, they're not in that room.

They're not with Vladimir Putin saying, yeah, let's go in. And yet now they're getting death threats. So it's just something else that kind of divides everybody. And then, you know, you wonder about the KHL. The KHL sending out that tweet, kind of promoting their playoffs. They got roasted online for, you know, doing that. But it goes the other way, too. You're hearing about North American players saying,

get me out of this contract. I want out of Russia. I just don't. Can you guys think of a story that really affected sports this much where people are asking to leave teams? People are being banned. Countries being banned. It's pretty crazy.

Right. It has major implications in the sports world. And I can kind of see the perspective. of CCM and people like that kind of just you never know if down the line you're going to find a player that had ties to Putin. So it's all very nuanced and I'm trying to keep an open mind listening to things that I like I hear now because it is it is something we do have to report on right because it's affecting hockey. Yeah. I mean you say is there anything that's affected hockey like or that's affected sports like the pandemic but that was everyone. That's not one specific

country. I can't other than that I can't think of anything that has had. this sort of impact. And it was like instantly, like the moment it happened, it was all right. Like, Ovechkin's name was immediately being put out there. Like, I don't know. It's, yeah, I can't remember anything that was remotely close to this other than like I said, the pandemic, which was. And the pandemic wasn't punishing anyone. I mean, we're seeing people get punished. And you could be on either side of the fence on this one, but even things like not going to the world juniors or not playing international tournaments. Well, sometimes a 16 year old at the World Juniors raises the attention of NHL scouts, should that player be punished because of what

their country is doing? This is far from over. Obviously, that's almost a silly statement, but I mean, as far as the implications on sport goes far from over, so I'm looking forward to speaking to Dan Milstein a little later on. But we do want to slip some hockey talk in here before we get to that. We were quickly chatting off the air about how this kind of feels like it's 1985 again with all these goals being scored. And for me, that really hit the pinnacle of that last Saturday. I've got a group of buddies that we text with all the time. And of course, I'm in the Toronto area. So a lot of this is about the Leafs. And my friend texted God, could you imagine if I told you that the Leafs were going to score 10 goals and just

eke out a win, I guess, the Detroit Red Wings? 10, 7. And we've seen a lot of that. And that brought up a lot of issues with the Toronto Maple Leafs and number one being goal tending. Jack Campbell, Peter Marazik just found out before we started taping this show that Peter Marazick is going to get

his first back-to-back start of the season and this is what Sheldon Keefe said when he made the announcement. Well, he's earned it I think is the first thing.

It's no secret to Jack stumbled here a bit of late and we have been talking about getting Peter more time in the net. We think the timing everything just really makes sense.

Is goal-tending the number one concern if you're a Lee fan going into yet another playoffs where they're trying to get through the first round, Jesse? See, I'm of the belief, and maybe this is just me being the goalie union guide, but I hate it when people overreact when a goalie has a bad stretch. We saw it here in Vegas. Mark Andre Fleury was a stud, and then he had a bad month, and they were like, we got to get Robin Lennar, and then it created a mess over the next three years. I think it's strange that just the mentality of

a shooter goes on an 11-game scoreless streak. And it's like, well, yeah, but he still scores. Like, he's just going through a bad drought right now. Like, let him play through it. He's going to start scoring. And then he does. And then everyone's like, see. But with a goalie, Jack Campbell's been a stud all season long.

He's been so good for this team. And then, yes, he has had a bad stretch. But I don't understand why you can trust other positional guys to find it out, to figure it out, to find their way through a tough stretch. But then with goalies, we just think like, oh, he lost it. He's terrible now. It's because you guys are such weirdos. If I'm Kyle Dubus, if I'm Kyle Dubus, it's like, yes, Campbell has absolutely not been good enough. But this guy has shown through over more time than this rough stretch that he's been very, very good.

I would, before I would panic and trade for Mark Andre Fleury or or Verlamov or whoever's going to be available to trade deadline, I would let Jack Campbell. Like, I don't like just playing Marazic and like, like, I would let Jack Campbell try to work his way. through this. Well, I think you're absolutely right about the goaltending and I go further to say, look at the scoring history in round one for the league because the scorers are not scoring as they should. So I think it's a little bit of everything with getting out of the first round. But I can speak on Marazic because I covered him for a while in Carolina. I know the guy. I love the guy. I think he's a very, very passionate person and he'll put 110% into everything. But that goes the other way too. So when he's not playing well, it's like, he's going to be cold for a streak.

But when you want him to be striking in the playoffs and then he's giving it as all, it's like, he's the best goal you've ever seen in your life. So I'll take that honestly. It's interesting. I'm looking at, I'm looking at Jack Campbell's goals allowed over the last like 12 games. Oh my God, it's worse than I thought. That doesn't help too. And I know we're in the age of analytics, but it's more the stink level. If there's a number we can have for some of Jack Campbell's goals allowed. It's not the fact that he's allowing a lot. It's the fact that some of them are just really, really bad. And all you can hear Leaf fans say is, you do that in the playoffs, and it's another early exit. It's interesting, too, him being a UFA. You got Marazic on that three-year

deal. But the Leafs have a lot of issues they've got to worry about right now. You know, muzzins out long term. What's that due? They need another defenseman, in my opinion. Then you've got John Tavaris, who hasn't scored in, I got to hear my 13 games. If you're a Lee fan right now. See, there it is. There isn't. We're too much on the goal pending. John Tavaris is done.

He's done. They have to find a new center. That's what I'm saying. They're going to move with the Islanders fans. Hold on, though, Jesse. There's only two of you per team. That's why all that focus goes on to the goaltender. I get what you're saying.

I get it. But when praise happens and everyone talks about the most important position at all of sports, it goes to the goaltender. And that's why the problem you have here, and yes, Peter Morazick, as Sarah mentioned, when he's playing well, he can play well. The problem is in this new age NHL that we are in, let's say over the last 10 or 15 years, let's call it, the days of a starting goaltender and then a bona fide backup are gone. You need two guys who can jump in any time.

And what if you're a Leaf fan and you're looking at Jack Campbell and Peter Marazic are those the guys that are going to take you to the quote unquote promise land. That's what's what I bring up. Don't count out Marzic. A month and a half ago, wasn't Jack Campbell like in the Vezna conversation? Welcome to Toronto. Oh, hold on. He was here in Vegas. It was December where he started to definitely slide early on in the season for two months.

So two months ago. Yeah. Yeah. And he was in the All-Star game. Like he was here in Vegas. I talked to him. Like, I don't know. I feel like we just go.

We jump off the deep end on goalie so much faster than anyone else. And I agree with you. They do get more praise than they deserve when things are good and they get more discrutiny than they should when things are bad. That's just kind of how it goes. But yeah, I believe in Jack Campbell a little bit more than Leafs fans. And I'm telling you, looking at these stats, it's harder to believe in him because, man, he's giving up five goals.

It seems like every other night. But let him work through it. He was playing really good hockey early in the season. Sarah, correct me if I'm wrong. we've got just a goaltender who's been blamed for too many goals in his men's league that it's like, I'm standing up for the guys in the past. Every time I bring up a goal setting conversation, I know it's a podcast so people can't see this.

Jesse's face just changes. He's like, oh, all right, you want to go against me? There we go. Let's go. Anyways, we'll have to see with this leap team because, you know what? The other thing is they're in for an interesting opponent in round one wherever the hell they finish. You know, if you got Tampa or Florida, that's going to be tough.

We've talked a lot about the Blackhawks this season and everything that went down with the scandal which led to the team saying, we're going to change the culture, we're going to clean house, we're going to get everybody in. And they go out and hire Kyle Davidson as their new GM. And I got this question, if they wanted to change the culture, if they wanted to, you know, look on the outside, if they wanted to, you know, not look to the past as Rocky Worth so eloquently put in that in that ridiculous. what do they call, town hall meeting. Why do they hire internally? It just, it's mind-boggling to me.

They had a great candidate and Eric Tulski too, and they didn't give it to him. I mean, I would give a GM position to him today. He's a progressive guy, and he has analytics background. I feel like that,

why not just go for the gold there? But I don't know. What do you think, Jesse? Yeah, I agree with Rob's just overall. Like, it should have been someone from the outside. Like, even like take away everything else. Anywhere.

I don't care where. Anywhere else. Especially when, like you said, the message was like, we need to change. Like, we need to do that. And it's right. Like, they do need to change. They need some new fresh eyes in there. Like, you need outside perspective and hiring with it.

Like, I am, I think Kyle Davidson can do a good job. Like, I don't think there's any reason why he can't do a good job. But I also think the optics of the situation and just from big pictures, take a back like you probably should have hired from outside. Yeah, Mark Lazars and Scott Powers had a great piece where they talked with the five things to fix the Blackhawks. And it starts with a perfect line where they say he's not going to get the benefit of the doubt.

He just absolutely is not. So not only isn't a weird hire in my opinion, are you setting this guy up to fail? This young GM. I know he's been with the team for a while. I mean, he started in the video department as an intern when he was 22 and now he's the general manager of the team. but it's my eyebrows got raised for sure because I thought we'd see the most on Chicago Black Hawk higher ever and it's basically the exact same Chicago Black Hawk higher.

I want to bring this up. We've been hearing about player tracking for a while and chips and pucks and everything else and we've kind of been waiting to really see the effects of it. We're going to start seeing on broadcasts face off win probabilities right before a face off. And I for one love this stuff. I mean, I'm not even necessarily saying it's super vital. And if I don't get to see it, I'm going to be confused. But man, what a world we now live in where two guys are about to take a face off with 30 seconds left in the goalie pulled in an offensive zone.

And we could see that Jesse Granger is 65% to beat Sarasivian. I mean, that's just, that's awesome. What did you guys think of this? Yeah, I like it. I like more information the better. As long as it's not like while the play is going. on. This is what I've been saying from like when they've been trying these little things. I love the information. When live play is happening, I do not want little bubbles above the players on the

screen. Like, look at this guy. This is how fast he's going. Like on replays after the play, give me as much information as they can humanly pack into a broadcast. I love it. Not while it's live. Yeah. Agreed. And yeah, right before is a huge thing there. And also just kind of making sure it's it's aesthetically pleasing and is not distracting me is huge. But I think bring up the pulled goalie. Like I'd love to see, like I just love to see face-up stats before a pulled goalie. Like you're in the offensive zone. Like, good for betting.

Maybe. I don't know. Like live bets. I don't know. I want to bet on each individual face-off. No. I want to bet on each individual face-off. All right.

I got five bucks on Colorado right here. You guys, you guys laugh. There's a reason they're doing this. There's a reason they've decided to do this player tracking. alongside signing deals with 4 trillion sports books, guys. Live betting is where it's at. Live betting is everything now. And maybe not every single face-off,

but I'm telling you that things like this are, you know, like the number one thing I keep looking towards is power plays. Because when a team goes on a power play, live betting whether they're going to score or not is going to be huge. And if all of a sudden you've got, you know, probability of scoring and when these, These five guys are on PP1. They've got an 82% chance of scoring.

That's all for people who want to wage. To your point, last, it's been two seasons now. We've been talking about this player tracking for so long. It feels like it's never going to get here. But I remember, like I was lucky enough to, they were testing it. The first regular season NHL game that ever was played with Pucks, with Chips in the Pucks and in the jerseys was in Vegas. They played, the Golden Knights played the Sharks.

And Gary Bettman was here. and I got to sit in their suite and like they had almost like a convention while the game was going on. And we had all these screens where we could see it all happening. And there were like virtual reality. And like it was almost like they had stands. And to your point, I'd say 60% of the people in this suite and the stands were gambling related. It was all live betting gambling related. And like none of it was in none of it and even two years later, none of it has come to fruition. But that was from the very beginning. Like when the gambling has been connected to. the player in puck tracking from the very, very moment they started doing it. And what a long way we've come. You guys might be a little too young to remember this. When the permanent scorebug with the time got put on the broadcast, the permanent one, the outcry guys, people are like, no, that's distracting.

I don't want to see the score and the time. And, you know, there's a lot of times where I do, you know, video features on old games and I get taken back to like 1985 and I'm watching a game and I'm going, what's the score? how much time's left in the pier it's crazy and every sport did it like I always look back at old basketball videos I'm like how do you keep track of a basketball game that the score is changing every

24 seconds at least and not know what the score is and people were so angry it was like petitions don't let the score bug be up there and now we've got everything including who's going to win a faceoff which is just

crazy. Habs are doing pretty well in Marty St. Louis behind the bench. Obviously, this is kind of a job interview for him, so he wants to win. You've got Hab fans saying, what the hell you do when we want to increase our probability of a number one overall pick? Did you guys see this coming with Marty St. Louis, who's never coached really a day in his life? There's always a little bump after there's a new coach, no matter who it is. I think part of it's just like the relief after pressure of like whatever they were going through before. But, yeah, Yeah, it's like a funny, weird spot where obviously the guys don't want to try to actively lose and they probably like him and want him to do well too. But like, come on.

Like you've dug yourself into a hole that you're not going to get out of. Yeah, I agree. It's like it's and you always get the bump. And when it's like a former player who's as liked as Marty Samuel, like the bump is even bigger. Like it's so easy to like get excited to play for that guy. It reminds me of the story that came out like in the NFL world. I don't know. It's been a few weeks, a few months.

that the owner was telling Brian Flores of the Dolphins, like we will pay you X,000 dollars every time you lose a game because we want a better draft pick. I wonder at what point does management go to Marty San Luis? They're like, all right, listen, I know you're trying to get the job. You got it. Like, it's yours. Now stop winning so we can actually do this rebuild like we're supposed to.

Well, it's funny with tanking. The anti-performance bonus. Yeah. Right. Can you please suck for, we'll give you money to suck. But I mean, they tried getting rid of it with the lottery. We've seen some egregious attempts to finish last.

The most famous, I think, was the Mario Lemieux year between New Jersey and Pittsburgh. If you haven't seen, I know there have been a couple documentaries made about it, where Pittsburgh pretty much sent their entire team down to the American Hockey League and brought up, you know, a whole bunch of players just to be like, oh, we'd love to see these young players. He's like, no, you want to lose to get Mario. Goalie goes 3 and 0, they'd send them back to the American Hockey League. But it's not going to guarantee you the first overall pick.

And, you know, with all due respect to the Shane rights of the world, there's no Mary Louieue this year. So I just think it's you got to sympathize with St. Louis. He wants the job. He wants to show he could make a change. And he kind of is. Speaking of the next year, where the hell is the Arizona Coyote is going to play hockey? Anybody knows? Do you got a backyard rink?

Maybe we can flood for them and play because now we're hearing, you know, the PA and the Coyote is going to meet to discuss their arena issues. the next three years possibly playing in a 5,000 seat arena, which is just comical. How hard do you guys roll your eyes when you hear anything regarding the Arizona Coyotes right now? Just sad. It's pretty bad. If they're playing in a 5,000-seat arena, all I can say is I am rooting for the Coyotes to make the Stanley Cup final because I want them to have to host a Stanley Cup final in that 5,000-seat arena. That's just rooting for chaos. That's the hope for me.

See, that would be electric, but I'm wondering if it's going to be like very diehard fans or if it's going to be a million dollars and it's just rich people. Are there that many millionaires that are like coyotes fans, though? Like if it was the Maple Leafs holding it in a 5,000-seat arena? I don't know. I do not know the answer. Johnny Mansell. And one question that for sure is going to need to be answered is hockey-reli-

revenue going down, just a tad when you've got a 5,000 seat arena if this team starts winning. Anyways, we'll have to wait and see, but I'll flood the backyard ring for them. After the break, we're going to speak to NHL player agent Dan Milstein, so don't go anywhere. And we are very pleased to be joined now by NHL player agent Dan Milstein. Thanks so much for doing this, Dan Milstein. Thanks so. Before we dive into what has had to have been a very difficult week and obviously months even leading up to this, for some people.

people, some of our listeners who follow hockey and follow, you know, contracts and everything else, they've heard your name as an NHL player agent. But can you maybe just paint a picture of just how you got to this point and, and really how this week has kind of affected you? Well, I am a political refugee from the former Soviet Union. I was 16 years old when I came to America with one suitcase and 17 cents from Kiev, Ukraine. When I was 10 years old, the Chernobyl blew up. And so I was evacuated four months later. I came back to Kiev and I lived there until 1991, boarded the plane on last day of the Soviet Union's existence and landed in Detroit when the Soviet Union was no longer on a map. And you just started from there. And I mean, how did you

get from what you just said, which is, there's an incredible story in itself, but to representing hockey players of the NHL? So I went to a high school in Arbor, Michigan, and about six months later, going through food stamps projects, I was fortunate, and I say fortunate, to get a job at McDonald's. For most, working at McDonald's is beneath their dignity, but for me, it was a lifeline, an opportunity to be somebody someday. About a year later, there was a McDonald's whole American competition. The deal was whoever won the competition got into the management program before graduating high school. I was a manager at McDonald's. I have done landscaping.

I've delivered newspapers. I've changed transmissions, engines, and tires. I've done it all in when I was 19, second year of college. I was taking a connecting bus in downtown of Ann Arbor every day, and there was a big, beautiful building with well-dressed men and woman going in and out. So one day, I walked in and asked for an application. We're in a T-shirt, flip-clubs and shorts. So to this day, I have no idea why they gave me a chance.

It was a bank. So I went to the Salvation Army, and two dollars later, I was a proud owner of a suit in a tie, and I was a banker at last. Fast forward, before I turned 21, I was the general manager at the bank. I worked at three banks, and I started this tiny little mortgage company where I was going to do loans. And I rented a space that was used as a closet by its previous tenant. Well, fast forward, Gold Star has 49 offices from Florida to Hawaii. obviously I own the company. Along the way, I became number one loan officer in the United States out of 550,000 people,

and I was fortunate to build a company. I've taken it to Inc. 500, on numerous occasions, as one of the fastest growing companies. I've made the Russian Five film amongst many projects. I'm the executive producer of that, which is unfortunately under attack right now due to its name. we're in all kinds of businesses and now you'd ask me but all of that, why the hell would you be in an agent? So there was one kid who was told no

657 times. He was not selected in the first years of draft eligibility. He was not selected in the second year of draft eligibility. He went all the way and at the end of the sixth round, 171st at the last year of his draft eligibility. He didn't even know for about a week or so that he was even drafted.

until a friend of his comes in the locker room, goes like, oh, you were selected. He was drafted, and he goes, like, I don't believe you. So the next day, the friend brings a newspaper and the kid looks at it and sees his name. Three years later, the sketch shows up to a training camp. The team had 13 future Hall of Famers on the team. Very little to no chance to ever make the team. Shortly thereafter, they pull him aside and I told him, hey, you're on a lot. you're going to, you're going to stay here.

And somebody, at the time, I was ranked number, I was number 10, 12 or so in the country out of 550,000 bankers. And they gave him a business card that said, hey, call this guy, he speaks to language. He can take care of you. And so this kid gave me a call. Do you know who I'm talking about? My father, that took, my very first client. And until 2015, he was my only client.

because as I was building other companies and doing other things, at first I helped Pavel with banking stuff. We became friends. We became the best friends. And we've been there for each other for all the surgeries issues, problems, awards and stuff like that throughout his entire career. I built the business around one guy. So from the littlest things to the major things.

I mean, I'll never forget him rehearsing, standing in the middle of his hotel room and now that we're rehearsing his acceptance speeches right before the All-Star. awards to, you know, obviously, getting a, being in a surgery room, being next to him. And so I was fortunate that I was thrown in the fire and I was next to Pavel for many years. And eventually, I became obviously his agent. And then in 2015, when he decided to go back to Russia, I was faced with the idea, do I continue on and open up the floodgates to everybody else?

or do I just shut down and go back to being the banker and being everything else that I do? Wow, what a story there. Which brings us to this past week, Dan. Obviously, you're clearly following everything that's going on like the rest of the world is. And I'm just wondering just that balancing act of being someone who's from Ukraine and watching the country get invaded and also being, you know, the agent that has a whole bunch of Russian players on your roster. and having to deal with some of the hardships that go back and forth with that balancing act. So, you know, certainly at very difficult times, but I want to be very clear that none of my clients want,

my clients won the world peace. Nobody wants the war. It is heartbreaking to see, to watch the footage and see what's happening in Ukraine and what's happening around the world. But I want to be extremely clear. my clients won the world peace and my clients don't support the war or what is happening right now. What have your conversations been like with your players over the last couple days? Well, you know, we have had numerous conversations.

And of course, you know, the biggest thing is obviously we are getting some serious life threats. And while most of my clients can obviously protect and support the themselves and the NHL has done a great job with the teams, the local police departments and the NHL by providing access to security level. But you know, you step on the ice to play the game or you're on the road and then naturally you're thinking about what's happening to my wife and the kid is my child safe at home. You know, we have received numerous threats. One of them is actually, you know what?

I posted on my Instagram in the story, it's D. Mills thing 75. I mean, you should, you should see the hatred that we're getting. Since the ESPN story broke out yesterday, I have received 50 or 60 very, very nasty messages because people either don't understand or they don't want to understand. But I mean, this is the hockey guys. First of all, they look, we feel bad and horrible for the children of Ukraine, for people of Ukraine. I'm Ukrainian.

I'm talking to my friends at home as my childhood house is being bombed. So I know or I'd like to think that I know what they're going through right now, but we're talking about hockey players. We're talking about the guys that are here in North America. They pay taxes. They support all kinds of charities, both here in the United States and Canada and also at home. They are good people. Also, I'd like to bring up another very important point.

Currently, as we speak right now, there is a talk that USHL, United States Hockey League, and CHL Canadian Hockey League. League is not going, potentially not going to draft or allow Russian kids be drafted. Now, these are the junior leagues. You have to play between, you play in that league between the age of 16 and 20. So, you know, I hear the big slogans hockey is for everyone. Guys, you are denying a 16-year-old, an opportunity to play junior hockey. How is that hockey is for everyone when you're saying no to a kid only because he was born in Russia?

What are some of the things you can do as an agent to try to combat that? Well, unfortunately, I'm very, very few of the people who is qualified to speak. A Ukrainian political refugee found a refuge in the United States, a U.S. citizen, a proud U.S. citizen, somebody who speaks fluent Russian and who represents many Russian hockey players. I would like for the world to know that there are good people. They're not here to harm anybody. There are normal people in local communities. The problem that I have right now is that, you know, I'm concerned for the safety of my players and their families both here in the United States and also in Russia.

Also, keep in mind that the history of the Soviet Union and prior Ukrainians, Belarusians, and Russians have lived as one family for thousands and thousands of years. and for and what's happening right now, I don't approve and I feel very bad and sorry for what's happening in the world. But at the same time, hockey players, guys that have basically given joy to people for, you know, over the years, as an executive of the Russian Five, I mean, enemies became a family and helped the Detroit Red Wings bring the Stanley Cup home 42 years. years later. I have, you know, now we're seeing people, my clients that have been winning Stanley Cups every single year. And unfortunately for me, I've been, I've been able to witness that.

You know, the fence or some people were sending messages saying, hey, I want, you know, I'm going to name my child after you. And in some cases, some of those people are sending very nasty messages, you know, literally, you know, a few years later. Dan, I remember when Russians started playing the NHL. And there was an exciting time because it was a new style of hockey and there was an air of mystery to it. But I'd be lying if I'm saying that the hockey community welcome them with open arms. There was still that whole there, the Russians, this is our way of hockey, blah, blah, blah, but that slowly started to fade away. And I'm feeling that again now. And I'm wondering what your thoughts are on how this war, which we don't know when it's going to end, how it's going to

end what's going to happen, how this is going to affect just the public perception of Russian players going forward. And what advice you could give as an agent? Because I know Alexander Ovechkin is not your client, but his comments, you know, made huge news and the hockey world seemed very divided. What do you say that Nikita Kutrovs of the world when you say, you're feeling this hate? You may be feeling it for a while, but hopefully that will fade. You know, certainly very difficult times. And we're being set 30 years and I think I've made that very clear in my ESPN piece yesterday. We are being set 30 years backwards.

I hope that this blows over and people understand that Russians aren't bad people, especially here in North America. They're contributing members to our society, not only by paying taxes and supporting their local economy, but also they're in the communities. They're doing things. So my clients, they, the charity and they do. They just don't like to publicize. I mean, you know, going back to Pavel.

that's going to all the guys that are in the league right now, they do things quietly. We don't make big announcements, so-and-so donated a bunch of, you know, a bunch of stuff, right? But rest assured that what Mike, some of my clients do for the local communities is unprecedented.

And I don't believe that some of the other guys are doing a fraction of what my guys are doing. Some of them are, well, all of them are extremely, appreciative that they are, that they, that they have an opportunity to play in the best hockey league in the world. But going back, I mean, we're talking about hockey diversity, hockey is for everybody. Guys, what are you talking about? You know, based on, based on the recent mood, I, you know, I, I personally feel threatened. And I'm the U.S. citizen who's lived here for 30 years out of my 46 years existence. And I'm from Ukraine. And I'm a political refugee. well Dan

what do you what are you feeling right now not as a hockey agent but as a former you know someone who's from Ukraine just what's what's this week been like for you personally I have you know certainly you know I don't like to you know I don't want to put myself on a pedestal but I will adopt and support number of families immigrants that would come to North America

in addition to that I would support support the government of Ukraine and most importantly people in Ukraine. I don't want the war. I want the world peace. And I hope that we can get through this. And normal people, regular citizens can survive and we can move as one forward. I think we'll leave it right at that. Thanks so much for coming on, Dan, and talking about this.

because obviously there are just so many angles to this story. And I know a lot of people think it's black or white and it clearly isn't. Thank you so much for doing this. We appreciate it. Thanks for having me on. All right, time for my favorite part of the show and yours, the Twitter segment. And we wanted to ask you guys, we talked earlier about the new stats that are popping up on the screen. You know, we've got face off probability, everything else, which we all agree is pretty cool. but we wanted to hear from you, what stat do you want to see on the screen?

Right now, obviously, you've got the score, you've got the time, you've got power play, and face-off probability. So we asked on Twitter, what stat do you want to see on the screen and take advantage of this, you know, puck tracking system we've been hearing about for the last couple of years? Sarah, you put it on your Twitter account. What are some of the stats people want to see? Speaking of stat boys, our favorite stat boy, Dom Lushin responded tongue-in-cheek. Personally, don't think we see and hear enough about face-offs,

because obviously the face-off stats we're getting. So I think he's saying he wants more plus-minus. I'm just kidding. I don't know what he wants. Face-offs and plus-minus. The two best indicators for wins are face-off and plus-m minus. I know plus-minus is the old-man's stat, but I still like look at a plus-minus.

But go ahead. That's probably because I'm an old man. Continue. It can be useful. But, okay, there's a few, like, somebody, Puck underscore Silver, who says speed of shot. What do we think about that one? I like it.

I think that one would be good, not necessarily for a goal. Like, oh, that one was 103 miles per hour. I would like to know, you know, the Shane Webbers of the world. I know that maybe that's a bad example, but I'm just thinking of hard shots. Averages a slap shot of 98 miles per hour. You know what I mean? Like, I think that would come into play. What do you think, Jesse?

I think it'd be cool. And maybe I'm making this up in my head or maybe I saw it, but I swear they, like, I saw a game where they had it like just superimposed. on the back glass behind the goal, just directly behind the net. And like, even just like a little circle there that every shot, you just can look over there and see it. Like, kind of like in baseball, you're looking at every pitch. I think it'd be cool. I'd be more interested in the shots that get blocked than the goals. When a dude lays in front of one and like has to limp over to the bench, it's like, this guy just took a 103 mile an hour slap shot to the chest. Yeah. And I think

it's not distracting. Like we like we don't want these, we talked earlier. Like we don't want these graphics like over saturating the like broadcast. And I think that's one that you could just have over like in a tiny little spot that everyone can just kind of check when they want. I think if they could go situational it might work, but that would take a lot of effort. And I don't know if that's good for live vetting, but just like random people like Ian Cole blocking a shot or Chara taking a shot.

You know, like people that have those like insane stats when it comes to certain things. But I don't know if that would be. I just like for me again, sometimes if a number is just a one time number, I'm not as intrigued. but I like hearing that, again, something stupid like this guy averages 100 mile an hour slap shot or this person averages this many block shots per game.

I like where you can kind of go, oh, who's the league leader in this situation? Who's got the best faceoff percentage in the last minute of a hockey game? Because you know what? You can win a draw in the first period with seven minutes left, but if you're winning that draw where it's the most crucial, those are the stats I like that you need to build up a little bit of a library of numbers,

but eventually they start to tell a story. There's no point in stats without context. All right. We'll do one more. Here's my favorite one from RB underscore Kaniak. Visualizations of danger on shots and passes would be a good use of the tech. Totally agree. Like, okay, this was a high danger chance.

Did it go in? Did it not? Because I feel like people get confused about that terminology. A high danger chance doesn't mean it's going to go in automatically. It means there's a high percentage of shots that will tend to go in from that area, you know? Oh, I love it. The thing I would like to see is like a player heat map. Like just now that we've known where the players are,

I want just the track where, like we see it with shots, right? Like, oh, look, this is where the most shots are coming from? I want to see where did this player spend his game? Like,

was this guy stuck in his own end all game and like the dudes just red in the, in the defensive zone? Or is this guy living in the other team's offensive zone? I feel like if there was one stat I could personally choose to get out of puck tracking, player tracking. It's, I want a map of where each player is spending his game. You've got Ovechkin in the circle. Yeah. Ovechkin in the circle. McDavid everywhere. Yeah. I think when I hear you say that, that is exactly what this was designed for. That stat just does not exist without player tracking.

And we try to, we try to like, Corsi, we like we take stats like shot attempts and we use Corsi as a possession stat, right? Like, because that's the best we've got. Like, what we have to work with. And I think we, we kind of use those like, oh, this team's controlling the puck a lot. Look at their shot attempts. Look at their coursey. But if we could actually have like how often each player is spending. And then you can look at guys and be like, look at this guy.

He's never in the defensive zone. He may not have the goals and the assist. But when this guy's on the ice, the puck is in good spots. Exactly. Anyways, thanks for all the tweets on cool stats, which I think is just, I feel like over the next little while we're going to see more and more popping up on the screen. It wraps up another show, guys. Great show.

I think we hit a lot of different topics here. And obviously the big one was dominated the show so far. But what do you guys got working on this week? Jesse, start with you. Yeah, I'm getting ready. I'm prepping for this next road trip. I've got a couple features that are in the early stages. But I haven't been on the road in a while.

Things were on Zoom, but we are back to in person. I am pumped. I've got Philly and then we're going to Buffalo for Jack Eichols return to Buffalo. I am excited for that. to go to a Sabres game in Buffalo. Yeah, yeah, Jack. I mean, it's the return. Do they?

Let me hear my throat. Okay, yeah, yeah, I like that. Sarah, what do you got going on? Yeah, back on the road. First in-person road trip in a while. Feels good, Jesse. You'll enjoy it. Just kind of trying to do more game, post-game pieces because, like,

you're in the moment here and it's special again. So that's good. So these two. Getting kicked out of my hotel as we speak. Hotel living. And we'll talk to you guys next week. And I want to let everyone else know what we got going on as far as coverage on the Athletic Hockey Show. Check out Arthur Staples' new Rangers podcast.

The Garden Faithful. His guest this week is Neil Smith. Kurt Flyers assistant, John Torchetti, the former Wild Head coach, joins Mike Russo this week on Straight from the Source. At JT. Comfer, who apparently looks like Connor McDavid, according to our producer, Jeff, is going to be joining Sean Gentilly and Sean Shapiro on the athletic hockey show. U.S.A. You can follow us on your favorite podcast platform. Don't forget to leave a rating and a review. Subscribe to The Athletic Plus on Apple Podcasts,

and you get all of your bonus content from the entire network. Mendez and Down Goes Brown provide bonus content this week. And if you want it, you start with a 30-day free trial, then just 99 cents a month after that. And right now you get an annual subscription to The Athletic for just $1 a month for six months. When you visit Theathletic.com slash hockey show.

The athletic hockey show returns Thursday with Ian Mendez and down goes brown. For Sarah and Jesse, I'm Rob. We'll talk to you next week.