The Athletic Hockey Show - NHL All-Star Weekend gets bad reviews, Gary Bettman media availability takeaways, Bo Horvat signs 8-year New York Islanders extension, Multiple Choice Madness, and more

Episode Date: February 6, 2023

On this week’s Monday edition of The Athletic Hockey Show, Ian and Julian are joined by The Athletic’s own Mark Lazerus, fresh off a trip to NHL All-Star weekend in Sunrise, Florida, to discuss where the All-Star Game went awry yet again, Gary Bettman addressing Pride Night controversies and playoff play-in games during his media availability, how the Chicago Blackhawks should handle the passing of Bobby Hull, Sidney Crosby saying he prefers the 1 vs. 8 playoff format, Bo Horvat signing an 8-year extension with the New York Islanders, and the guys close things out with a little Multiple Choice Madness. Subscribe to The Athletic Hockey Show on YouTube: http://youtube.com/@theathletichockeyshowGet a 1-year subscription to The Athletic for $2 a month when you visit http://theathletic.com/hockeyshowLinkedIn Jobs helps you find the qualified candidates you want to talk to, faster. Post your job for free at http://LinkedIn.com/nhlshowGet a FREE 1-year supply of immune-supporting Vitamin D AND 5 FREE travel packs with your first purchase at http://athleticgreens.com/NHLTry Peloton risk-free with a 30-Day Home Trial, New Members only. Not available in remote locations. See additional terms at http://onepeloton.ca/home-trial Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the Athletic Hockey Show. We are back to kick out your week in hockey with the Monday edition. The Athletic Hockey Show, as always, Ian Med is Julian McKenzie with you, and it's a three-person roundtable here. We're going to have Mark Lazarus with us, Julian, for the entire show, because Laz won the lottery ticket to be in South Florida for the All-Star Game Pacivities.

We're going to find out, Julian, do you think, are we going to be, by the end of this conversation, we're going to be envious of Las or not? do you think? He was in Florida. He got to be here by the beach. He probably didn't have to wear any winter clothes. It's relatively cold in the markets that we happen to be in right now, but also the All-Star Skills competition sucked. I will say this much. Everybody else got a weekend off. I'm not complaining. I enjoy going to the All-Star game. I've been almost every year. I like it. It's fun. Yeah. But I'd rather be cold and not working than warm and working, right?

you know what's funny like I mean I was cold for a good chunk of this weekend but it's funny because I saw that you were there Sean Juntilly was there uh some of my other friends from other outlets were there and like some of my friends were like texting me the day like the day of the competition and they're all like man like why aren't you there like you should be there and I had like a brief moment where I was just like yeah like I should be there and then I started watching some of the competitions and I'm like man I'm not glad I'm not there like it just like completely went away and it's it's why I how that kind of transpired, but it, yeah. Well, I always say this, like, the outdoor games, they're not that fun to watch on TV, right? Like, it's cool. You got a few days before the event,

someone tweets out a picture of the rink in the middle of a field, you're like, oh, that looks so cool. And then you're just kind of done with it. And then once the game starts, it's like, oh, the camera angles are a little weird. I don't want to watch this. Two teams I don't care about. Those events are for the people there.

If you've ever actually been to an outdoor game, they're awesome. They are so fun. You can't see crap, but nobody cares because it's just a cool environment. it's just a fun place to be. The All-Star game is the exact same thing. I know it's on TV and everyone talks about it and watches about it and bitches about it,

but it is for the people at the event. It's for all the sponsors who, you know, get the promise of a weekend of rubbing shoulders with the players and the GMs and all that. It's for, you know, Russo and Jesse Granger and I snuck into a VIP party after the skills competition because we just flashed a badge at night and they couldn't tell what kind of badge it was. And they had like alligator that people were eating. There was a giant roast pig with a puck in its mouth. There was an open bar.

I mean, that's what this event is for. This event is for sponsors and rich people. And for the fans, yeah, the skills competition was terribly paced. But the whole weekend is really fun when you're there. And I think that's what people lose sight of with some of these, you know, signature events, is they're not really made for TV. They're for the home market. Toronto will learn that next year.

It's fun. It's fun to be. around the All-Star game, even if the All-Star game itself isn't that inspiring. You know, that, by the way, that that VIP event you went to, that gives a whole new meeting to the term Puck-hog. Hi. Hey, here we go, Zing. All right.

Okay. It's one of those shows. Yeah, it's one of those shows. But I, look, I didn't watch it on Friday night, the skills, because I've gotten to the point where I, I just didn't want to join it. It becomes an echo chamber. on Twitter, right? Like, oh, this is stupid, this is lame.

I'm like, I'm out. But I want, like, when you're watching this, Lazz, in the arena and you're watching the skills and you're watching the Happy Gilmore Pasternak thing and you're what, does it land in the arena? Or is it just kind of like a wamp-womp? Like, what's happening inside the arena as you're watching this stuff?

It's a little, it's a bit of a wampoom, look, I love the skills competition. One of my favorite things since I was a kid, you know, watching Ray Bork go four-for-four on the actor she's shooting all the time. And Al McGinnis and Al-Machry, blast and slap shots. I'm old is what I'm saying.

I love the skills competition. But the problem was it's two hours of skills competition stretched out into a three-hour show. This is ESPN's fault. There's no other way of putting it. ESPN wanted to sell more ads. They stretched this out. The league, people I talked to in the league were like, yes, we know. This should have been 90 minutes.

It should have been two hours. But hey, this is a, it's a made-for-TV event, right? So, yeah, have you ever been to an NFL game live? Yep. It's horrible. I've never been able. It's awful. It's just, it's guys standing around for like an hour and a half between each play

because they're showing 64 replays on the TV, on the TV feed. It's terrible. And this is what the skills come. There's all these, where there were these pre-tapes with the knocking down the surfboards and the golf thing. There's all these interviews that we can't hear what P.K. Suban saying. We can't hear what Pat Maroon is saying. It's just guys literally sitting there.

There was a 24-minute span when the only thing that happened on the ice was one breakaway challenge thing. And yes, the breakaway challenge is terrible. The breakaway challenge should be about what Trevor Zegris did last year. It should be about trick shots. It should be about, you know, just behind the back stuff. What was, Erasmus Dahlene had a penalty shot in the actual All-Star game. And he went around his leg, not between the legs, but behind the back and around the legs.

That's what the, it should be a, it should be the slam dunk contest, right? Nobody wants these skips. Nobody cares if you're wearing a Miami Vice outfit. Nobody cares. Look, David Paschnack did the Happy Gilmore Stride Great. Yay, happy for you. Nobody wants to see that. Nobody.

It does not land. Do trick shots. Bring in players that aren't all-stars if they have some kind of trick they can do. Bring me trick shots, the viral stuff that actually plays with the young crowd these days. Give me something cool, not a reference to a 45-year-old movie. That's about to say, like, if you were one of those people who are like, well, this is an event that should be about the kids. So why is everyone so mad?

Nothing screams being about the kids than doing references to happy Gilmore and Miami Vice. You know what I'm saying? But yeah, you bring up a really good point. And like the breakaway challenge, I've been saying this for a while, it should be the closest thing the NHL has

to a slam dunk competition, like what we see in the NBA. And it's like everyone this year just like looked at like, you know, the costumes are like, yeah, I want to show off and do something cool but not actually do like a cool trick. And like I get some people are going to be like,

oh, but the moment with Sidney and Ovechkin and Ovi's kid was really cute and I get it, that's fine, that's cool. They do that every year though now. Every year, the stupid kid goes out there and scores a goal on an empty net. It's a nice moment. But like I would have loved if like,

like Connor McDavid, I would have loved if Connor McDavid would have like gone down, done no frills and just did some kind of lacrosse spinorama move and scored. Like that would have gotten such a reaction compared to like Mitch Marner doing the Miami Vice thing and then just completely failing on the goal or whatever he tried to do with Roberto Luanga. That was awful.

Like that, in the past, you're not feeling like, all right, whatever. I don't ever, yeah, right, Matthew and Chuck and Brady did something together too. Like, they just focused too hard on the skits and not enough on scoring. They were in Vegas, so Alex DeBringit did the hangover and he dressed as Alan. And it's funny for like a split second, but like that's not what we're here to see. Not what anybody wants. Even in the NBA when they do that stuff. Like there's a really cool dunk that happens.

And more often than not, like, I think of when Zach Levine competed in the contest a couple of years ago, and like he, he like wears like a tune squad like jersey. Like you don't have to do that much. It's just like, oh, okay, there's like a subtle nod. You remember. And then you do like a cool move. I think the first year they did this or one of the first years, Patrick Kane did it. And Marian Hosa comes out and he puts on Clark Kent Glass. He puts Clark Kent classes on Kane and a cape around his neck.

And then Kane did a pretty cool move. he like dove and like flung the stick and he and he shot like from his belly like do something that's fine that's fine that's fine piqui suband dressed up as yarmier yager small supper move does it like like what we just saw there was just a lot of flash for no reason and like it just kind of fizzled out by the end of it yeah the breakweight challenge is probably the worst one that i've ever had but do you guys also feel like and it's all it's fitting that the all-star game always happens first week of february right around groundhog day it's groundhog day because it feels like we have this debate every year.

I bet you if you went back every year, the last 15 years, like, what should we do about the All-Star game? And it's like, you know what, nothing? Like, let's just leave it. Like Laz says, it's for the sponsors, it's for whatever. And we can just leave it alone. We don't have to critically look at this, maybe. I don't know that there's ever any coming back.

There's ways to easily improve it. And again, part of it is just speeding things up, right? Making it move along quicker. You know, the whole thing about ESPN wanted to have the, all the finals at the end of the thing so people had to stick around to see who's the past or skaters. No, don't do that. Do the fastest skater. Do the hardest shot.

Do the accuracy shooting. There were some good ideas. The accuracy shooting going side by side for the final? That was awesome. I love that. Let's do that, but let's not wait an hour and a half in between the semifinals and the finals there, right? Absolutely. The only way to quote unquote fix, I'm with you, Ian. It's fine. It is what it is.

The only way to quote unquote fix it is to incentivize effort. and I really don't know how you get these guys to care about it. Money is the only thing I can think of. If you watch the third period of all these three-on-three tournaments with about 10 minutes to go, all of a sudden the guys start trying a little harder when a million dollars is closer to them, right? I don't know how you can incentivize them to do that.

Is that $50,000 prize for the accuracy shooting going to make a guy try harder? I don't know. Maybe it does. But most of these guys just don't want to embarrass themselves, and that's hard to overcome. But Mark, but Mark, like, come on, like a year's worth of Chipotle for a player who lives in a market that doesn't have Chipotle, isn't not enough for you?

Yeah, these guys can afford, these guys can afford Chipotle. Yeah. But I think it's hilarious, like, there's no Chipotle in Montreal. And it's like, here you go, Chipotle for a year. And it's like, couldn't have been better. Was there no Chick-fil-A available? Like, we don't have food restaurants. Chick-fil-A is worse.

Like, there's no Chick-fil-A in Quebec either. No, exactly. That's what I'm saying. Like, it's, it's, well. Okay, let me ask you this question before we move on to some other things that kind of came out of All-Star weekend. What do you find more cringe? All-Star game skills competition or the award show?

Oh, God. The award. What's the awards? The awards? Come on. It's not even close. At least the skills competition, there's some, there are some cool things that happen.

It's fun to watch these guys skate real fast. And, you know, Connor McDavid going eight for eight in the accuracy shooting is awesome. Like, there's nothing. The awards. Oh, my God. It's so bad. There's a, the magic trick that goes wrong.

I mean, oh, my God. God, come on. Yeah, Keene and Thompson's at the host of at least a few of those, and I bet it must be an arduous time to try to get those players to do anything. Yeah, the skills at the very least, you can at least be like, oh, hey, hey, this player did this cool thing. Like, Sarah Nurse had the coolest moment of the entire

skills competition. Like, that's at least something we can hang out on. Not according to my Twitter mentioned she didn't. Oh, my God. Oh, really? Oh, God. Just Turkey wasn't even trying. Why are there women out there?

You know, she wouldn't be able to score a 13-year-old male goalie. just Turkey just didn't want to embarrass her. Oh my God, just my mentions have been an absolute men's rights activist campaign for like four days now. These are the same guys if you if you look up their Twitter history and like put in like Serena Williams. These are the guys that are like, you know, I could probably beat Serena Williams. You know. They're all selfies in their car with sunglasses on, of course. That's their avatar.

That's the standard avatar. Those people. Go be sorry, sorry. Go ahead, go ahead. I'm going to lose my mind. I'm going to lose my mind. Those people just piss me the hell off. It's just men's rights activists

yelling at other men's rights activists in my mentions on just how much they hate Sarah Nurseford even trying to show up a man. Oh my God. Yeah, how dare you do that? Anyways, we should probably stop that before we lose the madness who listen to this show. I hope we do.

So that's the perfect segue for us to talk about Gary Bettman's press conference. Listen, Les, I think a lot of fans really appreciated the fact you and some other reporters took the time during Gary Bettman's media availability to push the commissioner on the recent Pride Night events that unfolded in Philadelphia and the Rangers that certainly, I think, became a touchpoint for debate on this podcast, other podcasts. And first of all, I appreciate having colleagues that are willing to ask those questions in press conferences. You don't just let it slide. You asked tough questions. What was your take? You were in the room.

You asked Gary Bettman about the Pride Night stuff. You saw the follow-up questions. What was your takeaway? Body language, the way the commissioner answered. Like, where do you come away from this conversation? Well, it was revealing because he said, referring to the Rangers, a couple of players, right? Now, the entire team didn't participate in that. But after he said that, I went around, I started asking some people.

And from what I understand, obviously I wasn't covering that game. there were a couple of Rangers who were going to do the Ivan Proverov route and not wear the pride jerseys. And then the team, the players, decided as a group, well, we don't want anyone to be singled out. We don't want to have a Proverov situation. We're just all not going to wear it,

which is a terrible decision, by the way. That is some cowardly shit from teammates to protect their teammates over a cause like that. I don't like that at all. But, you know, when Bettman originally said that, I wanted to come back with, no, the entire team didn't. But he's not, he wasn't really lying there. He was actually revealing.

something that wasn't really, I'm not sure how deeply reported that's been yet by anybody. There were a couple of Rangers who didn't want to do it. And that's disappointing. But what really disappointed is he didn't even address. I asked about the job fare too, the DEI, the diversity job fair. Yes. That got Ron DeSantis, where DeSantis and Fox News and Tucker Carlson took it to the NHL. And the NHL completely caved, you know, so fast.

Like within like a nanosecond, they canceled this job fair that was supposed to encourage applicants from outside the traditional hockey community, which is, let's face it, white men, and Rhonda Santos went nuts, Tucker Carlson went nuts, and the NHL completely caved. Look, I truly believe that the NHL as an organization has its heart in the right place here. They do want hockey to be for everyone. It's good, it's good business if hockey is for everyone. What they don't have is the courage, the spine, the willingness to fight back against the mouth breathers out there. You know, if, The second they get any pushback, oh, you got to tolerate the intolerant.

Oh, I don't want to ruffle any feathers. And that's what's so disappointing about this is, you know, they just outright canceled the job fair because Ron DeSantis was mad. Ron DeSantis, who does nothing but political stunts. They caved to a political stunt. And it was disappointing to me to see that. You know, this happened in the NFL or the NBA. They're moving the, they're moving the All-Star game.

We saw that when they moved the All-Stra game out of Atlanta and moved it to, in baseball. Baseball! Baseball had a backbone in this situation. NHL sort of said, if we can't have this job fair, we're moving. And I know that's a huge thing to ask of the NHL. But that's when you show you really give a crap about a cause, is by being willing to sacrifice money and business for it. And the NHL is not.

The NHL was more concerned about just having its event be controversy-free, so they completely folded like a cheap suit. And that was really disappointing for me. can I say something and you could tell me if I'm out of bounds or not but is the reason why the NHL is so unwilling maybe not maybe an unwilling isn't the right word but when you say that they need to grow a spine for these types of stuff like that is it is does that that I swear to say cowardliness but maybe that applies in the situation here does that apply because their fan base for general fan base is just to kind of like those people

Like people who would are all like, you know, stick to sports and, and we don't want to hear about all the political stuff. And the spits and, sorry I didn't invoke this podcast name, but the Spit and Chicklets fans of the world, the barstoolies of the world. Is it just because the fan base is too ingrain that way for them to really make a move and they don't want to alienate those people because there's too much of them were fans in the game for them to do anything? Is that the reason? You can tell me if I'm out of bounds for that question. I don't know. I think that's part of it. I think the, you know, but every fan base has that, right?

I mean, you know, the NBA isn't just all woke fans, right? Let's be honest here. There's plenty of meathead older fans in the NBA, too, just like in every sport. I think, you know, I tweeted something about that where I said, like, I think the NHL's heart and mind is in the right place, but the courage isn't. And someone in the league, I won't say who, obviously, but said, you know, I don't think that's really true. You know, there are people up at the top that do.

I think Gary Bettman wants to expand the league's footprint. and make the league more welcoming. It's good business. But this is hockey. This is the most conservative of the four major sports. Ownership. We saw it with the, you know,

Ian, with your piece on Eugene Melnick. We've seen how a lot of people in this league really feel about the LGBTQ community, how they really feel about hockey being for everyone. This is a very insular sport. And the people that run it, not all of them are as progressive as some of us would like. So even if Gary Bettman and Bill Daly want to make things

better, you know, not everybody in the league does. So I think that hurts. If you're not unified to make a huge statement like basically giving the entire state of Florida, the middle finger and leaving a week and a half, two weeks before your All-Star game, which is a very difficult thing to do. I acknowledge that. It would take total unity, unity of purpose. And the NHL does not have that. This is a very conservative sport. It's mostly rich white people, right? and it's it's really hard to push back that vehemently when most of your league is like, yeah, whatever, I don't really care.

Like at best, they're just like, sure, yeah, do your pride thing, I don't care. You know, and, you know, Liz, Julian and I had this conversation last week, and we got, I got a lot of emails from this. Like, I mean a lot of emails from listeners who, some of them agreed with what I said, some of them vehemently disagreed with what I said.

I had a couple of emails, one from a, a woman named Julia, another one from Sarah, who were really disappointed with my take on this, which is that, look, and I agree with everything you said there. Like, I'm really disappointed with what the Rangers and the Flyers did. I can't stress that enough. But I've reached some, and the Rangers is a good example, because you just said, look, they had at least two guys,

a couple of guys that didn't want to wear the Pride jerseys. Here's what I think, Las. I think, this is what I said last week. Let the players come out wearing the jersey that they want for one. warm up. I want to know who are the real allies in a situation. I took a lot of blowback for that. A lot of people said, Ian, you're, and I, I just want to know what you think. And I, I'm always open. And Julian and I had lunch in, uh, Montreal last week. It was great. We had, we kind of talked about this. And I'm always willing to admit if I'm wrong or if I'm, you know, I just feel like

this Rangers thing's a great example. What a loss now. Like, now nobody wears the jersey because you guys didn't want to wear the jersey. I'd rather have seven. guys wearing a pride jersey who it means a lot to them. Yeah. You know what I mean? But I don't know what the answer is. I did a story last year on on homophobic language in the NHL and how it's getting better, but it's really difficult to eradicate because it's almost more sinister now that it's not

overt, right? And I talked to Brock McGillis, who is obviously an LGBTQ advocate, a former hockey player. He's a very important voice in this space. And he said, he's like, I want to know. It was almost easier when people were just calling you the F word because you knew, okay, that guy's homophobic and you didn't have to guess, right? And he kind of made a joke about how, you know, Americans are a little more in your face about their hatred and Canadians kind of keep it to themselves and he almost prefers the American way because you know where you stand, right? So I think you're absolutely right. You know, if you gave these guys the option of wearing it or not wearing, which I guess technically they have.

Like, there's no reason they couldn't have done that with the Rangers. But the problem is the hockey world is so obsessed with not standing out. Yes. You decide as a team, we're all going to do it because two of our guys don't. And in their heads, they're being good teammates, right? They're being protective of their teammates. They're doing the right thing. But the message it sends to the outside world, outside of that locker room, is horrible.

And you're right. I would love to just, you know, let's find out. you know, if you really are this against the idea of other people having basic human rights, tell me, tell me so I know, tell me so I know that, you know, not to buy your jersey, not to, not to, you know, seek your autograph or whatever if I'm a fan. I think that's better. You know, if anything has come out of the last five or six years in our political discourse, especially in America, it's people have come out of the woodwork, right?

Like we know now. Like you say things, you know, anti-Semites are just anti-Semitic publicly now. Racists are just racist publicly now. Homophobes are just homophobic, you know, regularly now. And it's jarring the sea and it's demoralizing. But hey, least I know. Don't hang out with that guy. Yeah, just, man, like I get it.

But it's just like, I obviously I hate that. My whole thing with that too, and I made that, tried to make the point last week, It's just we have to kind of try to change the way that these Pride Knights or any similar types of nights are just kind of viewed. Instead of it just thing where we're trying to single out, like, who's not wearing a jersey. Like, if we can get to a point where fine, if we go Ian's route where the guys who really care about it wear it, we highlight those players and highlight those who do those initiatives behind the scenes. Like, lost in everything with regards to the Philadelphia Flyers and what happened with that in Proverall is the fact that Scott Lotton and James Van Riemstike. came together and welcomed non-binary fans.

Like that is a, that is, that is, like, that is a whole other world for, for the NH. We talk about them being not progressive. There are so many good people in hockey. There really are. We need to highlight them more. Yeah. And they should be highlighted for the fact that they're willing to, to go that extra step to

be welcoming of someone in the LGBTQ landscape. Like, that should be a cool thing. That should be highlighted, right? So, hopefully, if it gets, forgets that point. Like, that's a good step in the right direction. But yeah, I think just the lack of progressive culture in hockey just kind of hurts it in that way for us to highlight those stories. And it's honestly, it's disappointing to know that with the Rangers that, you know, it was a couple of guys who really didn't want to do it. It turned to a whole thing where nobody on the team

wanted to do it. And you bring up a good point with the fact that, like, because of the way the sport is set where you don't want everyone to stand out, it's about the crest on the front and not the name on the back. Like, that feeds into stuff like that. Last, I'm curious, like, How do you handle, because I know either in looking at your Twitter feed or sometimes, sadly, in the comment section of the articles that you write, how do you handle when you get the, uh, the label of, you know, woke police or cancel culture? People are like, oh, Laz, Laz hates hockey. And what I want to do is I just give you a platform. So people understand how much you actually like, you do this because you love the game. Like, you know what I mean?

Like, you love the game so much. And I just want to know, like, how do you like, how do you like, How do you handle that? Because we may also have some younger reporters and journalists or aspiring journalists that are listening to this that feel like, you know, I'd like to carve out his space to highlight this type of poor behavior in sports. But I'm worried about doing it because when I put myself out there, I'm going to get a lot of criticism. What are some tips for, you know, trying to stand up? Like, how do you handle it?

I'd like to know how you handle it. I seem to have an abnormally thick skin. I don't know. It just, it's, I used to fight back a lot. And that's like fighting through quicksand, like you're just going to get deeper and deeper and deeper. If someone is just egregiously stupid, I'll sometimes quote tweet him, crack a snarky joke and just let the mob go get them because that's funny to me. I should be above that. I am not.

I don't do it as often as I used to. But if anyone ever calls me a, I have buzzwords that get me. A cuck, a beta, a soy boy. I will quote tweet that every single time because it's so funny to me that they think it's somehow, unmanly to want other people to like the thing that you like. Like these people have their priorities. Like, I don't know what they're, what is it, what is it they're protecting? What's going to happen if a gay man is at a hockey game?

What's going to happen if a non-binary person is at a hockey? Does hockey somehow not, do you not like hockey anymore because someone who's not you like? I don't understand it. I don't know where they're coming from. It doesn't make any sense to me why you would have such hatred for another person who is nothing to do with your life, who has zero impact on what you do and what you enjoy. And that's the problem with hockey in a lot of ways is this goes beyond just, you know,

the bigots out there. There's this weird thing about hockey fans is they don't want other people to become hockey fans. Hockey's my thing. You're not, you don't understand. You're not cool enough to understand it. I don't want you nerds with your math to understand it because you don't get what it really

means to have heart and grit and a motor. You know, this dates back to far beyond social justice warriors, as people like to say, coming out about hockey. There's something very hockey about that. And when you compound it with just outright bigotry and hatred, it becomes just this evil, awful place. And that's my Twitter mentions most of the time. Write a column about Bobby Hall, see what happens. And it's just, I don't know how to describe it because it used to bother me a little bit.

It bothers me when the comment section of a story devolves into a 2017 Yahoo Answers commentary thread. Like it's just, that's not where I want that to be. I used to like going in the comments and, you know, I've been with the company for four and a half years now. Used to be this quaint little place. But the bigger your tent gets, the more assholes get in. I mean, that's just, that's inevitable, right? That's going to happen. Twitter, I've started me, I've only blocked one person ever in my life.

And it's really funny. It's like nine years ago, this really annoying Blackhawks fan. And I blocked him. And it's funny to me that he's the only person I've ever blocked. So I'll never block anyone else. But I started muting people. If you're just outright racist, I just, I don't want to, I'm done with it. Like, I know it's there.

And there's always going to be more coming in. Like, I feel like it's important to know that they're there. I don't want to be in a bubble. It's important to be reminded that these people are out there because that's what we're all fighting against. If we're fighting against these people, so you don't want to pretend they're not there. But if you're just getting belligerent and just arguing with every one of my mentions, I've started muting them. The mute feature is a great feature. They can still see what I'm writing.

And I don't have to see what they're writing. That's a step in the right direction. But yeah, if you're a young writer who wants to be, you know, I didn't get into this business to be a social justice warrior, right? I was a hockey guy. I wanted to write about hockey. It's just kind of naturally evolved that way. You have to be willing to just see that shit all the time every day, whether it's about

Sarah Nurse or about Bobby Hall or about Ivan Provorov. There's always something, right? And you just have to be able to accept that. Otherwise, you don't have to do this. You can do this job without talking about these issues. You don't have to. Yeah. And you know what?

There's plenty of, I'm not going to know. name them obviously, but there's plenty of colleagues in our industry that cover the game without touching these topics. And that's a choice. If you want that coverage, you can follow them and you would never see us in your mentions. You would never hear us in your podcast. All that. It's very easy in the year, 23, you can tailor your coverage. It's crazy, but you can tailor your coverage to how you want the game to be covered. If you don't want to hear about these types of things, you simply just follow other mainstream media people and you'll be fine. I don't And they stick to sports people.

They never seem to get upset when I'm tweeting about movies or Futurama or other sports or whatever. It's like to hockey, but just about the things I don't want to hear about. That's the thing. The one thing I'll say, too, is for people who want to get into this and they're afraid of the blowback. I mean, I thought about it. I used to think when I would get comments like that, you know, it's just good to ignore them. But I learned a lot from a good friend of mine would do a podcast with Samantha Chang. who also does the broadcast who spends a lot of time kind of dunking on a lot of these fools online.

And like, sometimes shame is good. And the cool thing is that especially I think for my feed too, I have a lot of support and a lot of people who don't want to see that insidious nature of crappy comments and racism and sexism kind of fester on. So a lot of people will like to pile on and we'll be like, hey, like we don't want that or they'll be like, hey, we're sorry that happened. And so I think for people who want to get into this game and they want to tailor their coverage, you know, not just about covering games, but they want to focus on that side as well. I think those people, especially those who don't know, I think they'll be very surprised to know that there is a pretty large community of people, whether notable media people or people who just live on hockey Twitter, who are also still notable there, who are willing to support and are totally in favor of people stepping up and saying something. And hopefully, hopefully people don't listen to this and think that, like, you know, hey, we're just pan around. ourselves on the back because that's what we do. There's a lot of work that needs to be done with regards to covering architecture and making the sport a better place. And we are nowhere near

what we would want it to be. So I hope people don't get that sense that we're just basically in a circle just like, you know, be like, hey, we did great. Yeah. And I don't want people, like, I don't want it to come across like I'm like some kind of victim here. I'm a white dude on Twitter. I'm doing just fine. Like you guys have to face a lot more than I have to face. And women on Twitter, good God. I don't even know how you even lock in every day. You know, there was one time. I could tell you one time and we're getting off topic here. But like, I don't even remember what it was. It was during the Kyle Beach stuff and I was tweeting stuff.

And I got re-twe, I got quote tweeted by a prominent, I didn't know there were such things, a prominent white supremacist with about 40,000 followers. And for the next three or four days, it was just people tweeting pictures of my very large nose at me, like hundreds a day and using these just like anti-Semitic tropes and stuff like that. And that was the only time that Twitter ever got to me. Like I was snapping at my kids. I was snapping at my wife. Like I had to unplug from Twitter.

I was in such a bad headspace. And it was one time in the 11 years I've been on Twitter. And there are people who deal with that literally every single day. So I don't want to make it seem like I'm in some hellscape. I like Twitter. I have fun on Twitter. There's just assholes to swat away every now and then. Like there are people that have it so much worse that are still out there fighting the good fight.

And there's real courage and heroism that goes into that. You know, and I think one of the thing you brought up here in, in your answer was, and Julian and I hit on this last week, Bobby Hall passed away on Monday. So it's been a week. And, you know, I think you dealt with the way that you wrote about Bobby Hall, which was, look, this man had a very mixed legacy. Don't just, you know, was very much what I dealt with with Eugene Melnick,

which is when the die. And people would say don't speak ill of the dead and it's disrespectful. And here's where I come down on this. It's twofold. first of all, I think if you're a public figure, when you die, your obituary, I think should be an accurate reflection of your time on this earth. I do believe that if you're a public figure in particular, okay? There's no such thing as too soon. No. And the other part of this is, I think if you don't want people to speak ill of you when you're, when you're dead, don't be an asshole in life.

Ding, ding, ding. And it's, I hate saying it that way, but, but you don't, you know, um, some of the way that you acted on this earth, there are people that still carry around this baggage after you've gone into the next, the afterlife, right? There's other people that carry that weight and understand that. Just because somebody dies, it doesn't absolve their sins. It doesn't absolve the wrongdoings. And I think as journalists, our job is to accurately portray when it comes to obituaries of, you know, people with public platforms. Given accurate, don't just write this flowery prose because somebody passed away within 48 hours.

That's where I come down on it. I don't want to keep going down on the political angle, but I remember the week after Ronald Reagan died, you would have thought he was Mother Teresa. And that's just not an accurate representation of a person's life. And that's always bothered me. With this one, with Hull, I remember at the Sun Times, you know, in newspapers, you pre-write obits, right? I mean, the obit that ran in the Chicago Tribune was written by Chris Cook, who hasn't worked

to the Tribune in years. Like, that was written like 12 years ago. That's what you do in newspapers. That's how it works. And I remember my boss asked me to write Stan McKita and Bobby Hull obit. And I wrote the McKita one. I told them, I'm not going to write the Hull one because what I write, you won't publish. I truly believe, like, this was a different time.

This was like, you know, seven, eight, nine years ago, and we weren't quite so upfront about a lot of these things. And I'm like, I don't think you'd write what I would publish what I would write. So when Hull died this time, like, all right, I'll do the headline, but I didn't want to write a column because I knew what I was going to say. And I didn't want to just be a screed about what a terrible human being. And he was a terrible human being. But the more I thought about it, the more I'm like, what do you do if you're the Blackhawks right now, right? Like, what a horrible position for them to be in. And of all teams, it's the Blackhawks, right? Of all teams in the last couple years. They have the most scrutiny, the brightest spotlight on them on how they handle

things like this. This is a nightmare scenario just from like a logistical PR standpoint. And so I tried to write it that way where that way it wasn't just me railing against Bobby Hull. It was, this is a really awkward and difficult position to be in if you're the Blackhawks. How do you handle this and get away Scott Free here? And I'm not, we'll find out tomorrow night. Tomorrow's their first home game since. The NHL did not acknowledge. knowledge Bobby Hull at the All-Star game. It's highly unusual for a superstar Hall of Famer who died the week of the game

for the NHL not to even do a moment of silence. I don't think the Blackhawks can do that, but they shouldn't lionize him. You can't make a hero out of this guy because he was not a hero. So they're in a difficult position. I don't envy this spot they're in. So what do you do? Do you, like, is a moment of silence enough?

Is just acknowledging? Is just acknowledging is passing enough? Like, how do you handle that? Well, like when Tony Esposito died, they put a 35 on the ice for the rest of the season and the guys wore patches. When Stan McKita died, same thing. They put the 21 on the ice and guys were patches. Do you want to wear a Bobby Hole patch? I don't know if I would.

Nobody's going to say it, but the players will wear it because this is hockey, but you should not force anyone to wear that nine. You should not put a nine on the ice. You should do a moment of silence because a man died who was very important to a lot of Chicago fans, the older generation. Just acknowledge it and move on. Do not make more out of it. Do not do it. The Blackhawks love ceremony. They're good at ceremony.

But this is one that they should keep their hands off of. Yeah. And now we're back to whether or not you should force players to wear something. Right, right, yeah. Yeah, that's kind of wild how we kind of went back on that. Yeah. Hey, there were a couple of, again, we didn't have games per se on the weekend outside of the All-Star game. But we did have a little bit of news.

And I thought also, another thing that came out lies from Gary Betman's availability, Sidney Crosby also weighed in on this, the playoff format. You know, and it's funny because people are like, Sidney Crosby speaks out. And it's like, well, he was asked. He was asked. And Sid says, look, I think I'd like to go back to one V8. I think a lot of fans feel that way.

I think this is funny, though. You see Maple Leafs fans saying, yeah, this is ridiculous. Well, I ran the numbers in the Eastern Conference. If you went one through eight based on points percentage, your first round matchup is Toronto and Tampa. It's four against five. So it's the same thing. It's hilarious.

It's the same thing. How about Gary Bettman quoting our poll in the athletic, confirmed athletic subscriber Gary Bettman, and he had the numbers right that it was 14 to 2 against a play in tournament, NBA style. But what he left out was that almost everyone unprompted during this question said, But I think we should go to 1-8.

I don't like the divisional format. Nobody likes the divisional format. Absolutely nobody likes the divisional format. Do you guys think if Gary is a straight-up subscriber to the athletic that, like, it's under his name? Like, if he went into the comment section, would it be Gary B? No, it would be Bill D because he's just sharing Bill's password. Oh, yeah. Do you think they share a password?

I think so, yeah. They share an account? Yeah, if anything and if everyone's all like, hey, you seem like with that commissioner, No, I'm Bill D. I want to know who he follows. You know, which teams does he follow? Is he just got an NHL tag? Is he big into baseball?

I want to know what his feed looks like. Maybe the NBA, because he had to start in the NBA. Yeah, it was 30 years ago now. It's a different league. 30 years ago. But for you guys, what's your preferred, you know, playoff format here? Like if they gave you free reign, they're like, hey, because I'm a big fan of the play-in. That's me personally.

I would love to see a play-in. But I was surprised to read the appetite from the players was like, no, we're not, we're not in for a play in, which disappointed me, but hey, it's their league, they know. Where do you guys come down either on play-in or the way that things should be kind of slotted in the playoff race, Julian? Like the 1-8 thing, I like it. I mean, I associate a lot of my earlier hockey memories with the playout format

being as it is. I understand that they drive the divisional side thing to, try to get more of those divisional rivalries to play against each other. I don't think it matters all that much. It should be 1-8. In all honesty, I would be cool if we did 1 through 16. Yes. Regardless of conference, you really made things crazy.

I have wild ideas. That and in-season tournaments and stuff. But, like, one and eight, like, I'm cool with that. Like, I think that would be a really cool thing to bring back, especially since the players themselves are in a position now where, I mean, Sidney Crosby was asked about, and he's saying something. Nathan McKinnon also feels as if that should be changed as well.

Like we're in a position where prominent players in the National Hockey League feel this needs to be changed. And if this doesn't get changed or if the league just continues to turn a blind eye to what they're saying, doesn't that highlight how little of a voice the players really have in the grand scheme of things of the National Hockey League? Like this is an opportunity for the NHL to realize, hey, you know what, we should change things and listen to our players. This is a pretty golden opportunity for them to respect that. I'm a big 116 guy. I think that would be great. I know the reasoning behind it is the travel.

You could have like a Vancouver Tampa theoretically, first round matchup, which is a logistical nightmare. But these guys are flying private jets. I don't feel that bad for them. It would be hard for us in the media. But it would be great for fans. You'd have non-conventional matchups. But it feels like we're going almost in the other direction, right?

They're talking about bulking up the divisional schedule. So you're playing your divisional opponents even more in the regular season now. And if you're going to do that, then, you know, one through eight, and 116 gets even skewed more because if you're in a really good division, you're going to have fewer points than if you're in a really bad division, right? Because you're going to be playing good teams over and over it. If you're in that division and you've got Boston and Carolina and all these great teams in there, you're going to probably not have as many points even if you're a better team.

I'd like to see a more balanced schedule. I know everybody wants to see more Islanders, Rangers games, more Blackhawks Blues games, more Kings, Ducks games. But, you know, if it means less time against, I want to see other teams, right? I want to see Connor McDavid more. I want to see Sidney Crosby more. So I don't think going to more divisional games is the answer here. It's good for selling tickets because rivalries sell tickets.

But man, it feels like we're going in the wrong direction here. We're going even farther away from getting back to a 1-8. Okay. Yeah. Also, I just want to say, too, I'm team playing as well. And I was very surprised to know that players aren't in for that. I'm torn on that. I'm torn on that because I'm a big baseball fan, right?

And they keep excited. spanning it, but like, you know, when you had a 162 game season come down to one wildcard game or a three game series in three days, like, it's, it's kind of a letdown to have these short series early on. So I'm kind of torn. I like the idea of it. The NBA ones are fun. I don't know how fair they are, but then you come down to it, well, if you're seventh, eighth, ninth, 10 plays, who cares? You haven't earned much more than that. So I'd be fine with it. I'm not like a huge advocate for it, but I wouldn't resist it either. One thing I want to say,

I agree with you guys on 116, okay? And I always hear people saying, oh, the travel would be, it would be impossible with the travel, right? Logistically, you can't do this. I want to take our listeners back to the 1981 NHL playoffs when they used to do 1V-16.

19801. Oh, this is we're going to learn something. Here are your matchups. Round one, New York Rangers, versus Los Angeles Kings. Ooh. Buffalo Sabers versus Vancouver Canucks. Man, that's cross country.

Montreal Canadians against the Edmonton Oilers. Well, the conference back in the Wales and Camber days, they weren't really geographical. So that's 1V16, okay? In 1981, where I'm pretty sure they were smoking on airplanes at the time. They were flying commercial back then. They were flying commercial.

So you're telling me, like, Gie Lafleur and, And, you know, all these guys are cramming into a commercial plane. People are, well, the players are probably smoking back then too, but whatever. And they're flying. And now you're telling me in 2023, we can't do Vancouver, Tampa when 40 years ago they were doing this? Get out of here. I'll tell you, I, because of weather emergencies, I've been on a charter three times, an NHL charter. It is awesome.

Every seat is first class. The meals are better than most restaurant meals you get. It's not that horrible flying cross country. On a private jet. Let me just say that. The only thing, the only thing, the only thing, the only problem I can see, or quote unquote problem, I could see if we're getting to a port where we have to account for cross country or cross-continent travel, maybe you add an extra day in between games.

And maybe fans get restless and you're like, oh, I don't like the fact there's two days of break before between game one and game two or game three or whatever. Like that I can see people complaining about that. I like your angry fan voice. You should do that more often. Yeah. The other piece of news I wanted to hit on two, Bo Horvatt signs an eight-year deal at $8.5 million per.

Now, the Islanders didn't confirm that in their team-issued press release. They left the terms out. In fact, Lou Lamarillo simply was quoted as saying it was, quote, too long and it's too much money. But you got to love. what do you guys think like Vancouver

couldn't get to terms on Bo Horvat they did with J.T. Miller. Which one of those deals do you think might age better? You know, five years from now are, you know, the Canucks regretting J.T. Miller, are the Islanders

regretting Bo Harvat? Are they both regretting it? Like, what do you guys think of eight times 8.5 on both? Man, that is tough. I mean, just the Canucks, I remember just all last season or last off season. We're wondering, okay, they're going to rebuild, right?

They're going to rebuild. They're not going to keep J.T. Miller. Then they keep J.T. Miller. You're like, well, what the hell are you doing? But if you're the islanders and you're a team that's not that far off from having those years where you're going to the conference final and you're trying to compete, I don't know how it's going to look for them this year. But I guess I guess I'd have to look at Dom's projections for where these two players

are supposed to be at. Because J.T. Miller, I mean, especially on the defensive side, not looking too great for him. But Horvatt, obviously, in the midst of a career year. So you have to be a little bit wary about how the rest of his career is going to play out with the New York Islanders in that contract. It might be a tie, almost considering what those players are with their careers and considering where their franchises are at with their players and where they really are in the world in the world of contention.

Bo Horvatt, I mean, he's never been even a point-to-game guy in the NHL. And even this year, he's having a career and he's barely a point-to-game guy in the highest scoring season we've seen in a long time. It's a lot of money to give to a guy who had, what, like 50-something points last year? Yeah. He's a nice player. He's a good player. but he's been in the league a long time.

It's un, you know, is he suddenly becoming a superstar at age 27, 28 years old? I don't know. The Islanders are, they're such a strange organization, right? Nobody thinks they're contenders this year, except for Lou Lamarillo, apparently. They have virtually nothing in the farm system now after trading Atu, Ratu. And now you've got this incredible center debt. You got Matt Barzel, Brock Nelson, old Horvatt down the middle. That's insane.

Like, that's like all world stuff. But you have nothing coming in the. pipe you have you're you're a goal tending dependent team with sorokin like they they needed goals they couldn't score they so they hired it they went out and signed a goal score i get that good move in theory but like is this a team that was a beau horvad away from contention in a in a conference with boston and carolina in it i just i i think that it's it's i'm never against a team adding talent and signing guys to contracts you always want to see that right go get better players but i'm not sure the islanders are built for the long term here yeah

And Kevin Kurz has written about this in the last week, right? Since the last couple days, since the Horvad deal went down. Okay, now what? Because they're not. They weren't just the Beau Horvat away from getting into the playoff race. When do you guys think that that deal was, like, do you think that they had kind of a deal in place before that deal was made? Like, is Lou Lamarillo giving up those types of assets for a pure rental? And I guess, Julian, I mean, Jonathan Huberto kind of did this too, right?

where I'm always, when a guy is willing to sign a long-term, hasn't played one game in this city. What if he gets in there and he's like, I don't like the lighting in this building or I don't, you know, guys are weird. He's all in. It's interesting, right, that a guy would sign without playing a single game, but I guess it's like a free agent, right?

Such a hockey player thing, right? Yeah. Yeah. It's kind of one of those weird things where like you go where you're wanted. Like with Huberto, I think with him it was a question of being blindsided by a trade when you think you're going to get extended in the home that you're in. And then all of a sudden you get a phone call saying like, hey, nah, you've been moved. And then you're meeting with your new GM and you're like, you know what, man, I don't want

to go through this whole thing where I'm trying to figure out, you know, if I want to move or not. And then you end up signing. I guess I could, I think that situation might be just a little bit more nuanced than the Bo Horvatt situation, which is kind of funny because when the move happened, a couple people are wondering, well, hey, if the Islanders are not in a playoff contention, or not in playoff position, could they just. just move could they just flip Bo Horvath again and get more pieces out of it which that would have we would have just been like oh well that's just Lou being Lou or for whatever reason but like yeah I'm

intrigued about how maybe for Bo Horvad in the situation he's probably thinking well you know what uh in this situation you've already put together some pretty great numbers in Vancouver even if you haven't played a game with the New York Islanders yet what if he plays games and he falls off in terms of reduction and then he hurts his future contract value and maybe even a future trade value At that point, you're just like, you know what? The bag is coming. Let me secure the bag. And then I'll figure out my playing after all of that.

That's exactly what I was thinking. He was selling high on himself. Oh, yeah. His value is never going to be higher than in the wake of this trade. He was never going to be more than an $8.5 million players. So why wouldn't you take it if you can? But this is like, you know, we go back to the discussion about other sports. And the NBA, guys are betting on themselves all the time, right?

I'm going to take a two-year deal with a one-year opt-out because salaries only go up and I'm just going to be awesome and I'm just going more money and more money and have control over my career. If I don't like it here, if this team's going south, you don't get boxed in. Look at Seth Jones right now in Chicago.

He is signed through like 2090 on a team that's not going to be good until 2091. And he's just stuck there. And it's because NHL. Right, yes. He's doing fine for himself. But he could have, you know, bet on himself and given himself more flexibility in his career.

He's locked into this rebuild now, whether he wants to or not. And it's because NHL players are always seeking the eight-year max contract. They want the stability. They're not looking to maximize their value. They're looking to not have to move every two years. And it's just, it's a very hockey player thing. Yeah.

And it's fascinating to consider that when Bo Horvats contract ends, Lou Lamarillo will be 88 years old, right? Like, it's wild. And maybe that's why he's like, ah, it's too long and it's too much money. He's like, I know that in all likelihood, I'm not going to be running the islanders. Every GM that gives out an eight-year contract

is like, I'm not going to be here at the end of it. It's fine. Somebody else's problem. Yeah. Anyway, it's, I think the island, this, but this, can we agree on this? Yeah. The islanders had been super vanilla and super boring

all season long, even last. This at least spices them up a little bit and you're like, okay, like what's going to happen with this? Oh, yeah. Right? It's fascinating. It's, where does, how do you have three centers like this? all playing together where you have three star centers

and do they start scoring goals? Ilya Sorokin's the best goalie in the league this year. Is that enough? If they get into the playoffs, do you want to face Ilya Sorokin? There's certainly some intrigue now behind that team. It's just, it's a question of the long-term makeup of this franchise. It's hard to imagine them,

or it's easy to see them ending up like Chicago did, where they had too many old guys that weren't worth what they were being paid because of the natural aging curve. And it feels like, but the Hawks had three Stanley. cups to sit back on and be like, well, it was worth it. Islander's don't. So it's going to be interesting to watch them for years to come now. Yeah, that's going to be fun. Look, and I think the Islanders here as we wrap up the pod, the Islanders are a great team to watch that. Eastern Conference playoff race,

the Wild Card Spot anyway, is going to be compelling because it kind of feels like Carolina and the Bruins, I think, have wrapped up their division. Certainly Boston has. Carolina is getting into that territory. I'm going to ask you guys this question. Here's a little multiple choice question to wrap up the Monday pod. Okay, so we got about 30 games left for most teams. What's the most compelling race down this stretch? I'm going to give you guys four options here. Is it, A, the Pacific Division race, which is completely wide open,

like basically four points separating the top four teams there with Seattle and L.A. and Vegas and Edmonton all. In the mix, Calgary still alive and kicking. Is it that, is it the Central Division race where, you know, I don't know, know what's going to happen here. There's a bunch of teams that could get. Minnesota's compelling. Colorado's kind of kicking around.

Is it that Eastern Conference wild card race? The penguins and caps, can they hold on one more time? The Islanders or, you know, I think a lot of people are hoping for Buffalo. Or the last option I'm going to give you is this. The Boston Bruins are within shouting distance of the all-time record for wins in a regular season, which is 62. Is that the most compelling race? Laz, I'll start with you.

What's the most compelling race? down the stretch out of those four options. Well, for me, it's who's going to finish in 32nd place and get the best odds of Drenbos. Yeah, you know, there you go. Being a Chicago guy, it is a very front and center of every time the Blackhawks take a lead, everyone in Chicago is having a panic attack. So it might be that.

But really, to me, it's the Pacific because whoever comes out in fourth place in that race might not even make the playoffs. They might be just a few points out of first place, and they might not make the playoffs if Colorado gets hot. You know, Calgary is sitting there trying to get in. Like a team that's going to be within striking distance of first place could very well miss the playoffs. So that race is more important to me. And the stakes are higher in that race. So I'm going to go with the Pacific. Yeah, I like the Pacific just because of the quality of teams that are getting involved in that. You can sort of lump in the Western Conference wildcard too because remember Colorado and Calgary right now as we're doing this are tied in points.

and Colorado has maybe a bit of work to do in order to ensure that they're firmly in that central division spot, but they're a really good team and they could find themselves there. So if you take them out of the equation, you're looking at Seattle, Los Angeles, Vegas, and Calgary and Edmonton as well. So like that's a lot of good teams.

And you're saying that like one, maybe two of them are probably going to miss the playoffs maybe. Like that is going to be a really interesting situation. Also Seattle, they start off really well. They're tied on points with L.A. Can those two, can Seattle hang on? Like they're the surprise team in all of this. Vegas is dealing with injuries.

Are they going to be in another situation where they fall off again? Los Angeles, I think of all the teams in that division, I probably had the least amount of faith in them with their goaltending, but maybe they do something to prop themselves up. And think about it, Edmonton and Calgary. Like people were wondering, hey, man, we got a Battle of Alberta playoffs last year. We might be seeing a Battle of Alberta for a playoff spot this year.

I think there's so many different storylines to follow in that division that are so much more higher quality compared to other divisions. So it's really that division. You know what? For me, it is, can Pittsburgh? and Washington kind of have one more shot of this,

but more importantly, and I think this is me speaking, who's not pulling for the Buffalo Sabres, given what that fan base? America's team. They should be America's team. They should be Canada.

North America's team. North America's team should be the Buffalo Sabres. You should look at them and feel nothing but sympathy for the fan base. They're a young, fun, upstart team.

Ross Mastalin is putting himself into the upper team. of defensemen in this league. They're just a fun team. I just, and wouldn't you love to see them if they sneak in Buffalo, Boston in the first round and the sabers will play with house money. Like that, I want that. I really want to see that kind of come to fruition.

So that would be, that would be my pick, would be that Atlantic, or sorry, that Eastern Conference playoff race. Yeah. Let's go Buffalo. Absolutely. We've seen it with the bills. It's just a fun fan base in football and hockey. you want to see good things happen to them because they put up with a lot of bad stuff for a long,

long time. They're on a rebuild of their rebuild. Like they need something positive out of everything they've suffered the last decade. So I would love if the Sabres made the playoffs. Yeah, 2011, last time they made the Stanley Cup playoffs. Yeah, that was Luchitch flipping Ryan Miller, right? Like, they've been that long. Okay.

I want to remind our listeners, a little programming note, the Tuesday edition of the Athletic Hockey Show with Custin and Gentilly. they're going to be recapping our exhaustive and expansive NHL-99 project that we've undertaken with The Athletic, discussing some of the most controversial rankings on the Tuesday episode. Dom, Shana, Eric DeHachuk will join them. I want to tell our listeners this. If you have any questions or queries

or anything about the NHL-99 project, send us an email, the athletic hockey show at gmail.com, put NHL-99 in the subject line and have at it. you can also leave them a voicemail, 845-4-4-5-8449, and, you know, voice your concerns. As we wrap this up, let me ask you guys, as those, as that team does the NHL-99 project on the Tuesday pod, what do you think is going to be the most controversial talking point out of that whole series? Is there one that you're like, oh, boy, this one's going to be spicy? Well, based on the comment section, it's Sean Gentilly, Sergei Federoff story.

The skates. Which I thought was great, by the way. I love that. That's what we should be doing with these stories. It was writing about something completely different. I think, you know, the Bork-Lidstrom debate has been interesting. Like, who was really, like, I think, you know, Lydstrom was just the perfect defenseman. But people sleep on just how great Ray Bork was, too.

So I think that's been an interesting because that's, they were right around the same area and Lidstrom got the nod. And is that a recency bias thing or what? that's if you're arguing the difference between like 27th and 34th in the list, you know, whatever. But when you get into that top 10 or so, that's when things get heated. Yeah. Julian, what do you think it's going to be? At a back and forth with somebody who couldn't understand why we had Raymond Bork over Patrick Waugh in our list.

So I imagine that maybe Raymond Bork will be a big topic of debate. I mean, yeah, that's probably where we're going to be right with that. I don't know if there's anyone who wonders if we've crossed. be a Neveschkin the way that debate has been going as well. If they feel away as well, I think that's probably going to be closer to where Raymond Bork is placed in that top 10 or Hua and Breder and hashtag in that place. Burders are 21. I mean, a lot of people feel Berdur is the greatest ever to do it.

So I know I'm pretty sure Devils fans are probably not that happy with the placement. There was a lot of debate over like, you know, Sackick and Izerman versus like a Mike Bossy type. Like, you know, it's always impossible to compare guys from different generations. and hockey that generally, you know, every 10 years, the league changes so dramatically. It's hard to compare a guy from the 80s to a guy with the 90s to a guy from the 2000s. So there's always, that's the whole point of this list, right, is to have these fun debates. Yeah. There was a story from, I think it was D&B, Daniel Nugent Bowman, who wrote about Leon Drib's on

the ride style not being on the list. And I imagine there's got to be somebody who's going to be in the comments or in the emails being like, where to slot Connor McDavid was almost impossible, right? because he's the greatest tucky player that ever lived, but you can't put him number one or number two. I think he was in the 20s somewhere, you know. It's like 16 or something, yeah, like that's it. But like you put him in,

but you don't put Leon Dryside to him. Yeah, like it's almost like excluding of getting Malcolm from the NHL 100. They would never do a thing like that. No, gosh, who would be that? Yeah, you never. Yeah. Why were the NHL even, you know what?

I shouldn't have even brought that up because the NHL, all the decisions make sense. You know, I lied and said that was my last. One more question for you, because today, on Monday, number three on the list came in. It was Bobby Orr. And now we know that there's two names left. And we know likely the order will be number two,

Mario Lemieux, right? And number one's got to be Gretsky, right? You're thinking there's two guys left on the list, right? So we know what's Lemieux and Gretsky. Where do you guys come down on, okay, if we all agree that Gretsky is number one, where do you guys come down on Orr versus Mario? Who should be number two?

Mario should be number two. Mario. If you make an idea, and I'm the guy that says that if Mario plays I mean, if infant butts were cookies and nuts, we'd all have a Merry Christmas, but if Mary Lemieux had a healthier, clean, you know, clean bill of health, he'd be number one over Gretzky. Yeah, I'm on that camp.

I tend to agree. I mean, he wasn't, so he didn't, so he was, so he's not. But, yeah, I think, LeMew had more to his game than Gretti did, but he had all the skill and vision and everything else. He was huge, he was strong, you couldn't take him off the puck. Mario could do it all. I was fortunate to cover him at the very end of his crew when he came back in 2001 and it was just your jaw dropped every night and this was a guy who was a shell of his

old self at that point and he was still a point to game guy. I mean, Mario was, he was pretty singular. Yeah. It's funny though because, you know, we talk about the what if with Mario and if he wasn't injured and he would have, right? Maybe he gets to the 2000 points and all those things. But what about like Bobby Orr, if you think about this, Bobby Orr's last season that he played full year in the NHL was he was 26 years old. He had 89 assists and 135 points. Bobby Hore is Sandy Kofax. His career wasn't long enough to,

but he might have been the best of all time, but his career wasn't long enough to fall in. Yeah, that's good. Sandy Kovacs is a great comparison. Or Mike Bosphi for that matter. Five year period of any player baseball history taking Sandy Kofax, right? Yeah.

60s there. And maybe, yeah, you're right, five years, Bobby Orr might, boy, it's, but anyway, I think it's a great debate. And it depends on the age. Like, I'm with you, Las, Like I grew up watching Mario, Mario Lemieux, because I missed the early, like when Gretzky was getting the 92 goals, I was like four years old. Yeah, me too.

I didn't know, okay? Mario Lemieux is the greatest hockey player I've ever seen in my life. He's the greatest hockey player I've ever seen in my life. McDavid is the next best one to me, but Mario was the best I've ever seen. Like for people in my generation, they would say McDavid. Like I think for everything that he's able to, oh, him or Crosby, those two players are probably. the greatest players I've ever seen in my life. But Big David, because of the speed and the way he's been able to score,

I mean, then again, the way Cindy Crosby's been able to score some of those goals, and even his assists. Like, his assists, Sidney Crosby's assists are, like, some of the coolest things you've seen over the last, like, decade plus. Like, I still love the, the odd man rush against New Jersey, where he's taking the puck in between his skate and he kicks it to a stick. I think before feeding Chris Cunas, that's still one of the coolest assists.

That one and the one where he rings around Jason Spets behind the net. Those are some of the coolest highlights I've ever seen. But then you have Connor McDavid, like, just powering his way to the net and just using his speed and making a fool out of Patrick Nemeth every now and again. Like, those are two of the coolest players I've ever seen. I mean, if you're in the conversation of the best in the history of the game, you're going to be pretty good. I mean, we're splitting hairs here, right? It's Babe Ruth and Hank Aaron and, you know, Willie Mays. Willie Mays, exactly.

Mike Trout, it's the same discussion you have all the time. It's kind of what makes sports fun is having these impossible discussions with no real answer. Yeah, exactly. And that's a good way to end it. Again, tee that up. The Tuesday edition,

we'll look at the NHL 99 project, the great debates, all of that. So get your thoughts and comments in on that. Laz, listen, man, thanks for dropping by. I loved your insight on all things, All-Star, Pride Night, et cetera, et cetera. It's always great to have you hang out for the hour. So thanks for dropping.

Bye. Anytime, boys. It's always fun. All right. All right. That does it for Julian and I for this Monday edition of The Athletic Hockey Show. You can get a one-year subscription to The Athletic for just $2 a month when you visit Theathletic.com slash hockey show.