The Athletic Hockey Show - NHL Draft 2023 top prospects: Connor Bedard vs. Adam Fantilli, early Calder Trophy contenders, listener questions, and more

Episode Date: November 18, 2022

On a brand new episode of The Athletic Hockey Show Prospect Series, Max, Corey, and FloHockey’s Chris Peters dive into Corey’s NHL Draft 2023 top prospects list, discuss the early contenders in the Calder Trophy race, and close things out with a bunch of listener questions in the mailbag.Subscribe to The Athletic Hockey Show on YouTube: http://youtube.com/@theathletichockeyshowGet a 6 month subscription to The Athletic for just $1 a month when you visit http://theathletic.com/hockeyshow Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the Athletic Hockey Show Prospect Series. Hey, everybody. Max Boltman here alongside Corey Pronman and Chris Peters of Flow Hockey, back for another episode of the Athletic Hockey Show's Prospect Series. No longer elbow to elbow, guys, but I think we're still ready to see Chris and Corey go toe-to-to-to. Always love when we do the episode centered around somebody's rankings because we get to hear you guys spar a little bit over what you think. going to do a little bit of that today. We're going to talk about the Calder, and we got another mailbag with some good stuff in it today. Let's jump right in, though, with the 2023 draft list,

though, because Corey, your list came out this week. You still at the very top have Connor Bedard, but I was interested to see that in the story you talk about, obviously, a little bit of, maybe a little bit more of a conversation at the top than we would have expected at this time last year coming from Adam Fantilli. Right. And I think that is mostly due to the play of Adam Fantilli. It's a not due to the play of Connor Bedard, who was the leading WHL score at the moment. But, yeah, you look at the play of Adam Fantilli, who was roughly around two points per game right now in college hockey as a freshman, being a leading player on one of the top teams in the NCAA.

He's just outstanding. And there's some more pro elements in his game with the size and the physicality that maybe Bader doesn't quite have in his game, even though I would argue his pure offensive touches is notably higher than Fantilli's. And this is not just my opinion that I think there is a closing gap. I would say it's an opinion that I'm hearing more and more often from NHL people. I talked to right before this podcast started, I talked to a scout who said he would lean towards Ann Infantili if he had the number one pick. I would guess somewhere between a fifth to a quarter of the league would probably make that decision at the moment.

and we'll see where we are by draft day, and obviously who has the number one pick and how the rest of the season plays out. I think the world juniors will be a big measuring stick for both of them. I presume both will play prominent roles on Team Canada, and that will be a very important tournament to see where the two of them match up. I think that there's definitely a conversation, but I still think that to me, Baderd is still clearly ahead because of what Corey mentioned, the pure offensive puck touches, the fact that his number one tool is his goal-scoring

ability. You need goals in this league. And it's one of the hardest things to do. And he does it better than most other people. The physical elements of his game, it's a really important distinction to make because you have to ask yourself the question is, I was just thinking about this. If you're the Columbus Blue Jackets right now, you've got Johnny Guadro, you've got Patrick Lina, you've kind of got, you know, where you're heading for the next eight years, basically. And you've got an idea of where it is, how does Connor Bedard fit into that mix? with those players. That is a question that you have to ask and you say,

would I prefer to have the hard-nosed, fast, big center who might not score as much, but still is going to score a fair amount, like a number one center? Or do I take this goal-scoring talent who potentially has the ability to change the dynamic of our offense in a way that, you know, as good as Adam Fantili is, I don't think he does that for them? he does other things that that Connor Bedard can't do, which is, which is fair to say.

But I mean, the other thing to point out, too, Connor Bardard's playing on a, on a, not a very good team in the WHL. Regina is not a good team. He's scoring at 2.15 points per game. Now, it's early in the season. There's still a lot to go. We've got a long way to go. But that would be the fourth highest scoring season by a U18 player since then. And we're talking, that includes the 1980s when people were scoring, you know, basically 180 points a season in the WHL. So I think what he's doing is special. I don't want to lose sight of that, but I think to Corey's point, Adam Fantilli's play is the reason that he's put himself in the discussion.

It's the reason that he's, that scouts continue to want to watch him very closely. For me, if the decision came down between the two, it would still be badard for me. But I absolutely agree that Fantilli has closed the gap. think it's now become very evident that he's the clear number two and there's got to be another discussion about how far is the gap between him and mitchkov at this point or little carlson or carlson as well who's who's very much in that mix too yeah i think with this debate there's a couple extra variables that i would want to throw in there you mentioned one badard scoring for example and he is scoring an incredible rate i think there's like a 40 or 50 point gap between him and

the next best shot generator in the WHL. It's, it's, the offense is outstanding. The devil's advocate argument would be because his team is so bad. His time on ice is hilarious. The games I was at, I think he was on the ice every second shift. There are games as a Ford where he's playing 27, 28, 29 minutes a game. It's actually kind of hilarious the way they use him, given they don't really have many other, you know, legit scoring options on that team.

The other part of the debate that comes in is the positional aspect of it. Both play center, both are listed as centers, but not everyone in the National Hockey League is 100% convinced that Connor Bredard is actually going to play center in the National Hockey League, whereas though the ones who point to Fantilli would say this guy looks like a star number one center. He has all the tools, everything you traditionally look for in that position. I'm not sure I'm 100% the way there that the BADARD is non-NHL center. I see a path because I think with the offense, I think he's still a pretty good skater.

I think he competes well, very intelligent. So I can see a path where he does become a center in the NHL. I'll see an excellent NHL center given how talented a player he is. But when I ask one of the things I've started asking NHL people this season, season is, okay, well, who's his NHL comparable? Who is Connor Bedard's current NHL comparable? It's not Jack Hughes. I don't think.

I think Jack Hughes is a much better skater. Some people would argue Braden point, but I'm not 100% sure that one fits either. I would say points a little bit, maybe doesn't have that kind of puck game, maybe a little bit, you know, feisty or a little bit quicker, but that one could fit possibly. It's close. I'm not sure that gets you all. that excited. I know, points an amazing player.

You know, as the, for what we think, Bidar is, I think Badaard's offense will be, will be greater. But I've heard the comps I come back, come back to me, are often wingers. I've had scouts argue he could be Pasternak, for example. I have scouts argue he could be Patrick Kane. I've argued Nikita Kuturov, all three of which you would love to have on your NHL team, but all of them are wingers.

Well, it poses an interesting question there, because Kane was the one that was sitting in my head. If you hadn't mentioned him there. And obviously, I think Fantilly right now, I don't think he's a perfect like for like for this guy. But the player you're hearing him compared to statistically right now is Jack Eichl in what he did in his draft year. And I think it would be a really good debate. If you pulled the league right now, who would you rather have Patrick Kane or Jack Eichael? I think you could hear pretty good arguments for both of those.

My suspicion is in the end, Patrick Kane would come out ahead. Maybe it's just because he's won it and we haven't seen Jack Eichael do that. But it's at least a debate. I think that's where you can start to see the outline. of this conversation going. Yeah, no question about it. And I mean, it's, it's fun to have because they are so different. I think that's really the key thing here is that nobody's saying that that Connor Bedard is not an elite talent and great goal score and a guy that has done everything he possibly can do to be the number one pick.

It's just that all of a sudden, you know, Corey and I had this discussion, I don't know, I think maybe even on this podcast before is like, what would it take for Connor or for Adam Fantilli to overtake him? He said, well, he's going to have to have at least a season like Jack Eichael. And statistically, he's been ahead of where Jack Eichael was at the same age. And I think college hockey is actually better now than it was then. And even though that Michigan schedule hasn't been as tough as I think B Euse was at the time, it's still, you know, Jack Eichael also literally carried an entire college hockey team to a national championship final. I think it would. If you take away there are two like Lyndon Wood games, I feel like their schedules,

been like still comparable. Yeah, it's been tough. Competitive. Yeah. Yeah, it's been tough enough. Yeah. Yeah, it's not a week schedule by any means. It's just, you know, there were more conference games in Eichel's sample.

The winning aspect, you may argue, should or should not affect things. But I think at the end of the day, if Michigan does go deep in the postseason, that will be a variable. And it'll be a way to see what happens with Bard here in the second half. I think one of like the sneaky under the radar debates going on in Major Jr. right now, particularly in the Western League, is what does Regina do with Conrad? Because it's extremely unlikely they will have any postseason success this season, given the other, you know, the other teams in the Eastern Conference. So the question is going to become, does Connor Badard get traded at some point in the second half? Regina is going to have to grapple with what that

means financially for their team. They sell out every game with that player in their lineup. But realistically, they're not going to win a WHL championship this season. So, you know, Ken, does Bedar get traded to a contender? And does he turn that contender into a champion? I think it will be interesting second half storylines to follow. Another guy, another center on this list who I think is worth talking about. Not a huge separation from the two of you in your rankings. I don't know, Chris, yours are a little older than Corey's at this point.

Yeah, by a couple weeks. Yeah. But Delabor Dvorsky is a guy of Corey. I think you have him at number six. Chris, I think you've got him at number 10. this was a guy who coming into the year, I think, obviously very much on everyone's radar. As we've talked about the current spike in the Slovak pipeline playing in the All-Svenskine. But Corey, I thought it was interesting on your list for a player who you have at number six,

kind of the questions on the, is it the skating slash compete blend here? Is that what's keeping him from this top echelon of these top four horses? Yeah, that would be where it is for me. I think with Dvorsky, the skill and the offensive hockey sets are both pretty high-end. I mean, he can do pretty special things with the puck in the offensive zone. He can run a power play like a pro, both because of the skill and the vision, but he also has an excellent shot. It makes him a multi-thread weapon on the power play.

You see in the AIK in the Alpsvinsky this season that, you know, he is one of their guys who run their power play. and I think there's a lot of offense in his game. The skating is just okay. I don't think he's not competitive. I wouldn't describe him as a high-compete interior offense type of player. So for me, I look at this player, and I almost kind of think of the Strome brothers immediately, kind of, in terms of, you know, how they play the game,

particularly maybe more like a Ryan Strom just because of the size, a difference there between him and Dylan. And I look at Dvorzky, I think, can he be that kind of player as a pro who isn't, you know, a star, but is an excellent hockey player? Yeah, and I, I've just had enough viewings of Dvorsky in the last couple of years, you know, and this is to, I don't feel that he has progressed at the same level as some of the other players in this class. He's definitely better now than he was. He's developing fine. He's a good offensive player. But, you know, you look at a guy that Corey had high and I had, I thought I had aggressively,

high in Will Smith, there isn't a thing that I would trade Will Smith for for Delibor Dvorsky. I don't think they're close. And that's another interesting element when you start comparing and contrasting the players that you list. You know, I maybe, I do think that at some point, Dvorsky is a little bit of a victim of the expectations that were set for him, at least. And that's something that we have to constantly evaluate in our own processes. How much do we buy into that?

I know Corey, Corey can be a little bit more dispassionate about that than maybe I am. But I would say that that's something that certainly has been a factor. But I think that in the recent weeks and in how he's played in the Allsfenzhenskin this year, there's a lot of positives to take out of it. And a guy like, you know, we're both saying that he's a top 10 prospect in this class. So it's not like we're saying he's playing poorly. We're seeing, you know, this is a guy that maybe hasn't taken. to me at least hasn't taken the step that I've seen some other players take and why he was 10

on mine and I still don't think that I would I don't anticipate I would be moving him much higher at this point of the season right I'm not sure why you mentioned the Smith thing we both have Smith over him right I know but I mean but I'm just I'm mentioning that I mentioned Smith because it's like he was a guy that wasn't considered in the same classes divorcee coming into the season you don't think over like or not I think it's actually if you didn't have a point today I think he's exactly. You don't think half a point per game, you know, Spenskin is progression? I think, no, I did say that he is progression.

I don't think he's progressed to the level that, that some of the other players. I think other players have pushed their game further, and that's why there are people leapfrogging him when we talked about him as a potential top five pick this year. Where'd you have Yeager? Yeager was fourth for me, and I would, or I mean, sorry, fifth for me, and he would be moving down. He would be moving down, yeah. Okay, just curious. He's fine, though.

I'd still take him over Dvorisky, no, no question. I'm not sure about no question. No question. No question. He's like a point per game 511 forward and you're saying no question. Hey, nobody's more obsessed with size than you these days. I mean, just, you know, devil's advocate. I mean, why is Dvoriski not progressing at the rate you expected?

But Yeager, you don't hold that against him. Now that's a fair point to bring up because I like Yeager better. And I started liking him better before. Sure. And I still, yeah. Scanning's better. The competes better. Yes, exactly.

More pro-style offense. Yes, those elements. But I do think that's a fair, I think that's a fair point to bring up in the terms of, you know, how we judge different players. And I think, again, this comes back to, I think the expectation levels were different for the two players for me coming into the season. For what's Worth, Yeager's like 10th in the W.HL and shots on goal. So I'm still banking on that being a little bit of bad luck. Right. Him having some more puck luck in the second half of the season.

in, but he's going to need to score more, I think, to maintain his top 10 status. And just to be clear, these are both players you both have in the top 10s. Yeah, exactly. We are talking about shades of gray here. They are shades of gray, but they end up being pretty important in the end when we're talking about a class that we have, you know, we like as a whole. So, yeah, so those shades of gray and those, they can make a big difference in a class like this.

One thing I was very interested to see in Corey's rankings when they came out, because we had just talked about kind of the D last week. And I know we spent some time on David Reidenbacher. He's Corey's top defenseman at number nine here. But I am curious. Dimishov's a guy who you've got at 13, Corey. I believe in the same tier. I'm curious, what's a separation between those two for you?

And Chris, how are you seeing Simashev so far? I actually think on pure ability, a pure overall toolkit. I thought Simashev's tool kit is the most impressive one among all the rear guards. I see, you know, a defenseman who skates well. I think there's offensive skill. He moves the puck well. He's six-foot-four.

He's played up in the KHL, and they looked fine. When he's played in junior, I thought he's looked very good. If he wasn't in Russia currently, I think he could have made a push to be the number one ranked defenseman. I think with Rinebocker, though, I see a mobile defenseman who is producing significant offense versus men. I'll be it on a bad team, so somebody's going to put on the power play. But he is the offense he's producing versus men as a draft del. Well, in the NLA, which is a really good league, is significant. Everything is running a half point per game right now.

He just played at the Deutsche Leng Cup for Austria and looked good there as well. And again, he is a six to right shot defenseman with all those tools. So it makes it really intriguing. So you have a toolkit, you have production, and production at a high level versus men. So I think he in particular is kind of the guy we kind of were waiting to emerge a little bit this season of a defenseman that checks a lot of boxes and looks like a highly designed desirable pro prospect. And I would say in my discussions with NHL teams, both have their fans, but Ryan Bacher

in particular, I haven't talked to teams and discussed exactly where, you know, they haven't slotted, you know, first round, top 15, top 10, et cetera. But I know Ryan Bacher is a name that is trending with a lot of NHL clubs right now. Yeah, and I didn't rank either of them in a top 32. Ryan Bacher absolutely. I think that was one where I didn't feel strongly enough about the toolkit yet. The production is obviously there. And I think I need more, just more viewings on him. Obviously, I've only seen him live at the World Juniors and then, you know, just watching on video. And to Corey's point, his production, the NLA, highest points per game average since Roman Yossi in that league for a defenseman of his age. It's not a place where a lot of defensemen play young. so that's another big factor. Simashev is not even a consideration for me at this point for first round, and this is where we differ greatly.

He's big. He's mobile. He's fine. I think he handles the puck clumsily. I don't like his puck moving abilities very much. I think that the numbers are indicative of that as well at both the U20 and KHL level. I mean, obviously we have to kind of grade him with a grain of salt in the KHL because there are some games where he will pay like seven, six, seven minutes,

other games where he might not play much at all. So, you know, I don't really, I would never hold a defenseman's KHL production against them, but he still only has one point this season. And then, but like, and I see the tools absolutely. Like, I can understand, like, I think he's got a great frame. The skating looks fine. The six four size, I mean, absolutely. And especially in a class where we just don't have many defensemen that have raised

their hand to say, we're going to be a. top guy. But he's one guy for me, and it's not just because he's Russian. I was like, take him out of Russia. I'd love to see what he would look like, but I just don't see a player for me that checks enough of the boxes. And that was one of the ones, Corey, when I read your rankings, I was like, wow, you know, that I'm always interested. We have these differences quite a bit more, more frequently, I feel like now, particularly on defensemen, it feels like. But, you know, and I would say, like a lot of the defensemen on my list are trending backwards as well. So it's not like I feel like real strongly about the decor in general.

But Simashev is a guy that just he just doesn't do it for me aside from being a, you know, a big and mobile defenseman. Yeah, well, on both of them, I would say with Ryanbacker. I didn't really look. I thought he was like nice at the world juniors in the summer. Yeah, he was, you know, still a, you know, guy who would have been a, the age argument is weird because it was a summer. but theoretically he's a draft minus one in a tournament right at that point kind of thing

playing up what a couple of what's been like two or three years up from the from his age group um so i really didn't wasn't over the mood about in there so oh he's big and you can skate and some there's some intrigue i think there's always an offense question with him and then i think this season he's kind of answering it was offense questions a little bit we'll see whether he keeps his production or up or not long term but even if he doesn't i think he has shown there is offense in his game and to go with the size and this games and In regards to Simashev, yeah, the point production is highly concerning. The MHL numbers, to me, are always a little weird to work with, particularly those with the top teams, CSCA locomotive and Skaz teams,

always have a lot of really good 18, 19, 20-year-olds, all those teams and can skew things a little bit. They, like, facility with Coles and what was he, like a sub-point-per-game guy in his draft here or something on that, that league. Yeah, no, when I've watched him, I think there's offense, but I get a legitimate concern. and he's got to start scoring at some point. All right. One more guy here that I want to talk about from this list, which I would encourage both of you to go check out both Corey's list on the athletic and Chris's list on Flow Hockey.

One more guy. This one's, you know, again, shades of gray on the difference, but in this range, six spots can be significant. Chris, you've got Zach Benson at six. Corey, you've got him at 12. He came in, I think, pretty much at the start of the year. I think most people would have had him closer to that ranking that Chris would have. So let's start with Chris here just to say,

why you still have him at six? I know that the point production maybe hasn't come quite as explosively to start the year. Yeah, yeah. Well, you know, interestingly enough for him, you know, I just think I've got a lot of, just a lot of time watching him. And every time I've seen him, I see, you know, incredible vision, really good, you know, puck skills overall. I like the way that he plays.

I think that the one thing that kept him high for me is I think he's really. is I think he's really good off the puck. I think he's good in puck pursuit. He's got a really good stick that disrupts. And that's a thing that I think his compete level and his, his, his, his, his, his, his, his anticipation, I think his hockey sense is just, is one of the top tier qualities of his game is that he's able to make plays, but he's also able to use it to anticipate what the opponent is doing, getting a puck in the way, getting up passes, getting up passes, good on the back check, all those different things I think will be, be very, be very, beneficial. The issue is, you know, he's not a big guy. He's not a big guy. Is he, and as such is that the way that, you know, will he have that same effectiveness

defensively or with off the puck that he does now in junior? He's also part of a super team, essentially in junior, which is really hard to evaluate for or against. I don't think he's a passenger on that team. I think he can be a play driver. But I do think that, for me personally, I think his brain is at a high level. And then I just wonder, you know, I do have concerns. I would say, you know, if I were to do, Corey smartly did his draft ring. I criticized him for putting his rankings out after the Five Nations. And now I'm starting to wish that I did the same because there were some things there that,

you know, getting another live viewing of players and seeing like, you know, I would say, you know, Will Smith is a guy that has jumped ahead of both Yeager and Benson for me and more similar to the range that Corey has him. And so you're starting to see a lot of those skill players that are average-sized or below, you know, kind of start stacking up a little bit differently. So he would be moving back, but I still don't think he's outside of the top 10 for me because I think his brain is at that level. I appreciate Chris admitting that I did something right for once.

I, it was hard for me to do. I choked on it, but I got it out. I think with the Winnipeg point is really important because I, I don't, I think that team is loaded, and I don't think any of their, like, high-end NHL guys, be it Matthew Savoy, Conner Geeky, or Benson really have outstanding off-the-chart offensive numbers, but they're winning almost every game they play in. And when I've watched those games, they aren't, they're not all the same line. They don't always play on the same power play unit.

They have so many offensive weapons on that team that they kind of mix and match who's playing with who. And so the offensive numbers are a little bit interesting to evaluate in that context. That being said with Benson, I agree with Chris that the compete level makes him really interesting because he's not just this small skill guy. He plays hard and he plays hard every night. But when you are a small winger who doesn't skate incredibly well to have an NHL role, he's going to need to score and score on bunches so that he's not scoring. Giant numbers makes me a little concerned with the top five, top eight range.

We'll see how the rest of his season goes. It wouldn't surprise me if he starts, you know, lighting up the score sheet over the next few months. What I would ask with Benson is, who do you think his NHL comparable is, Chris? Like, who's a guy in the league that you think looks like him? That's a true high-in-the-line-up type. I mean, I haven't thought about it that deeply

in terms of comps for him. You know, yeah, I mean, I think the skating ability is certainly one of those things that is in the mix. I mean, I think he plays more like Braden Point than Connor Bedard does. personally. But that's just,

that's, you know, the skating is a separate, that's right, exactly. Like it's, I've had people argue to me his skating at the same point as Brayden Point was at the same age. That's a good point. But he was a third round pick,

not a top 10 pick. Right. So let's learn from those mistakes of the past and move that player up. Because I mean, obviously, Brayden Point now would go much higher. And I think that's the other thing, too, with players like,

like Benson, I feel like there have been lessons from the past, the player that competes, as well as he does that has the hockey sense that he does. It does have the hands and the vision that he does. I think those are high-end traits for him. Right, but just point and poop to skating just dramatically, though. You can't bank on that every time.

Exactly. That's true. But at the same time, I will always bet on a player that thinks the game and competes at the level that he does while still also being able to produce offensively. I haven't thought of a good comp for him yet either. I'm still struggling with one. The one that I keep going to is Marco Rossi. because of the skill and the in the compete variables.

Obviously not a center like Rossi is. And Rossi's career is still to be determined. I don't like using comps for guys who are still really young. Yeah. Because we don't, Rossi has 1.18 games right now. He obviously is not an offensive guy in the NHL yet, but we think he will be with time. All right, gentlemen.

Let's get into some NHL talk now, some Calder Trophy talk on the rookies. I think coming into the year, some of the candidates who we expected to be in the thick of the Calder race, Maddie Baneers, Owen Power, Jake Sanderson. I would say all those guys are very much in it right now. But there is a little bit of a dark horse as well. And that would be Matthias Machelli out in Arizona off to a really good start,

10 points in his first 15 games. He was a fourth round pick in 2019. Chris, I'll start with you here. Where is this coming from from Matthias Michele? Did you see this kind of start coming for him? I don't think I necessarily saw him transitioning to the NHL as easily, but I mean, this is kind of, this is a guy that's really advanced his game year over year, played it in Dubuque in the USHL, you know, so he kind of took a bit of an unnatural path, ended up going back to Finland,

playing pro, highly productive. You know, he had some success there. And I think that that allowed him to both gain the confidence and that kind of role where he could be that go-to score against men. So that's not necessarily surprising. Did I think you would be in the top of this class? No. Corey actually did a little trivia with me and a few friends about who's the leading, who's the leading rookie score? And I was so focused on the under 18 worlds. I hadn't even looked at the stats of this for a while. And then he's like, you know, would you be surprised to learn? It's Matthias Machelli. And I was like, yes, I would. I would very much so. But, you know, I think that he's, he's always had a tenacious style. I think there's always been like confusion about

Like, where does he fit? Where is a guy like him who looks like him, who plays like him? Where does he fit? And I think in Arizona, you know, like, look, it's not like they don't have options. They do have good options even beneath the NHL. You think about guys like Nathan Smith, who's played in the HL, who had some time in the NHL last year. You know, they have some young players.

But Machelli is, you know, continually in the HL and everywhere else, said, hey, I can produce. And now he's doing it at the NHL level. I didn't think that the transition would be easy, especially with the quality of the coyotes as a as a roster as a whole but i think you know in general the coyotes have overachieved and he's certainly a guy that is kind of on trend with what he's done even if i think it's a little bit sooner than i thought he'd be able to contribute to an nchal roster he wasn't as productive in the american he was very productive very productive yeah and the american last season and yeah the coyotes don't have an incredibly deep group up front this year so somebody's got to be on the power play

there was going to be some young guy who's going to get opportunity of that produced i thought it might have been dylan get there may become in baron hayton but But it's been Machelli who's been, you know, I think running the flanks there on the power play, looking like a big part of their offense. And when we discussed before, like in the context of, say, Benson, of, you know, who, you know, looking for small, slow guys and where the NHL comparable. We'll see how Matteli does it with the course of an 82 game season, whether he keeps this up or not. But he is not a great skater.

That's why he went in the fourth round. But he's always just been a guy with really good skill, better hockey sense. I think he competes well. Yes. And he just continued to show he can do things versus men. Yeah. One important note, too, about Machelli that I think is important to how he's playing now, he did get 23 games of NHL action last season.

And so you look at the guys that have had experience before their rookie seasons, even if it's just like a handful of games, their ability to transition to a more productive role, you know, if they're ready, has typically been kind of easier. So he's got a little bit of a head start, although you say the same thing about Maddie. Baneers last year as well. Shane Pinto and Shane Pinto, other guys that got got those opportunities. But I mean, Machelli had 23 games, which is like just barely, you know, he's barely a rookie at

this point based on the Calder eligibility rules. But he is a rookie. Try to keep him in the eligibility. Exactly. He's, now he's eligible. So he's in the mix. Well, let's go to Pinto, because that's a perfect point, Chris is to lead us in there. Because he started this season on an absolute tear. I think he scored at one point five goals in a row. or sorry, five goals and five games. I think each an individual game's there for him, and he hit the ground running. He's a guy who I think people have been onto for a little while, and Corey, he didn't waste any time this year getting right into it.

A little bit quieter since then, but he did have a couple of goal night the other night. Right, and obviously the Josh Norris injury has increased his role and made what was already an important player to that team even much more important. Yeah, I mean, so we've talked a lot about Pinto on this podcast and just how good a two-way players, how intelligent he is, how competitive he is. You know, the skating is not amazing, but everything else about it. His game is really positive, and he's become a really important player, and I think he is, I don't think there is a guy right now who is running away with this calder.

It could go in a number of directions, and I think he's very much in that conversation. Another guy who, I don't know if we, like, gave him enough credit for being in the conversation, is Jake Sanderson. You know, I think we thought, rightfully so, that, hey, Thomas Shabbat's going to be, you the power play guy here, he's not going to get the offense. And oh, hey, Thomas Shabbat's not in the lineup anymore. What do you know? And it's not even when Shabbat wasn't a lineup and taking those power play time.

I think you just look at how well Sanderson is playing right now. There is still offense coming to go with a lot of ice time and playing very well in those minutes. That I think, you know, even though him and say Owen Power are not getting the PP1 time, I think both of those offensemen are playing so well. they have to be in the conversation. Yeah, I agree completely with that. And I think that Sanderson, this is, you know, the question I had coming in is, how was he going to bounce back from the injuries that he sustained last year?

He had just a freak season last year. And then he ends up bouncing back even better than expected. You knew he could skate with NHL talent. You knew that he had the brain to be a solid defender and to put up good numbers and everything else. But as Corey said, you know, he's already got five power play points so far this season. You know, that's of his nine assists this year, five of them come on the power play. And, you know, he's getting the chance to produce a little bit more.

But, I mean, Jake Sanderson is just, he's one of those guys that everything about him suggests, this is a guy that's going to be on your blue line for years and years and years and years. And he's going to make you better every single time. And now seeing how well and how easily he transitioned from, you know, freak injuries last year in illness and, you know, the craziness of going to the Olympics and everything else that he had to go. through and World Juniors and all that jazz, he's turned that around and just basically, it just shows the character of Jake Sanderson as well that nothing really seems to bother him, and he's just always the same. And you know what you're going to get from him every single time.

Where does this game right for you in terms of the tools perspective to say either Jacob Slavin or Charlie McAvoy, like, they're trying to think of upper echelon guys in the NHL. Yeah, I mean, I think he's certainly in that in that, mix. I mean, I think that that's where he's trending towards, where he's going to be a long-term number one that plays in all situations for you. And on top of it all, he's an elite skater. I mean, his skating ability is just tremendous. And I think that that's a real separator for him, you know, that, you know, I think that that's where he might have a chance to, you know, ascend and go even past those two guys who have been among the best American

defensemen in the NHL for the last several years. Are we surprised that Mason McTavish hasn't been off to a harder start? Yes. Well, yeah, I just saw him a couple days ago, and he was great. So he scored and he should have had two in that game. So I'm very surprised that it hasn't come in more volume for him. Yeah, I mean, let's face it, the ducks just, you know, they're not the best. No.

You know, they're not a great team. And, you know, but still, I still had higher expectations for the production, but I still am a Mason McTavish believer. would I go back and do a do-over for my Calder pick this season? You bet you. You bet you I would. But really at this point, it's still anybody's Calder race. I mean, it's not like anybody's blown the barn doors off here. No.

Baneer's a second in scoring, and I'm not saying he's running away with it. I think he's up there with the favorites, but I don't think he's running away with it by any means. No, and I think the one thing about Baneers that, to me, is like he's basically the face of the franchise already. you know like that's the amazing thing about it i think that that that goes a long way in terms of your overall team impact when i'm when i'm voting on calder and stuff like that i'm thinking about specific team impact and there's no question the guys that we just mentioned have had a significant impact on their teams i just don't know if anybody's impacted their team as positively as maddie baneers has impacted the crackin even though i could make the playoffs it was going to be hard to not vote

for that guy exactly yeah i mean i think he his team his overall team impact and the fact that you know he's the ray of hope for this franchise more than a certain other recent draft pick, which isn't his fault. But Maddie Baneers has taken the step that we all kind of saw coming at the end of last season and into this season. Any dark horses before we kind of tie a bow on this? I mean, there's some guys who I think maybe would have been on the periphery. They would have been on the radar coming into the year.

I'm thinking like a J.J. Paturka off to a really good start. Any kind of dark horses getting into this mix for you guys. Obviously, we've already talked about Micelli. There's two that come to mind for me. I don't think he's going to figure that well into this mix, but every kind of pro scat I've talked to has really he prays on Wyatt Johnson and Dallas. I think, you know, for the role, he's playing as a 19-year-old, is really impressive because I don't know if he's going to score,

especially on that stronger team who have the offensive options they do to get really into the caller race. But could I see him getting some fourth or fifth place votes? I could for sure. And I was curious when we were in prep for this second. segment, I looked up on hockey reference, they have kind of like a war-type stat. And I looked up who was the leading rookie player in terms of Woodsabove replacement. And the name surprised me.

It was Nick Purbix from the Tampa Bay Lightning, who I think's got three goals and six points so far. And on a blue line that's had some injuries. And obviously, they're losing Ryan McDonough has been, you know, been solid, nothing special, but he's big. He can skate a little bit. It's got some secondary puck moving up ability. I'm not sure he's a Calder Tophie Canada type of player,

but intriguing start to this season for a guy who has a lot of pro tools. Yeah, I'm glad you brought up Nick Purbix because I think he's been one of the biggest surprises for me in this rookie class. And I've liked Nick Perbix. I've watched him a lot playing in college ranks, and he was one of the top defensemen in college hockey over the previous two seasons. And made the Olympic team was kind of one of those guys was like, really him? And then he played decently well. And I think he's definitely one of those guys. But yeah, I mean, based on his minutes played and different things like that, you know, I don't

think that he's going to have necessarily the impact. You know, the other guy that I just want to mention because I've liked the way that he's played throughout the season. And it's just on a bad team. I mean, Caden Gully has been incredible this year. Yeah, exactly. And, you know, over 20 minutes a game, he's producing. He just has to be. hasn't looked out of place. And to me, it looks like, you know, if I'm a Habs fan, I'm looking at the way that he's playing right now. And I'm saying, hey, once we get a little bit more on this roster, he's going to really just take off. And he's really made that smooth transition. So Caden Gouli is definitely in the mix for me as well. We'd be very out of character for Tampa

that dropped a good player in the seventh round. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Yeah, I know. I was just looking at their prospect system the other day. And I was like, well, Which, none of these guys look that great, except, you know, like, Isaac Howard's the first rounder, but I was like, somebody, there's a, there's a star in there somewhere. And he's off to a slow start, too. He is, yeah. So, so, yeah, you don't draft in the first round, Tampa. Just draft in, like, five through seven, you're good. They're actual, other than Vaseleski, they're drafting his between, like, the first and the non-first round.

It's actually kind of hilarious. It is. It should just trade out of it every year for four mid-to-late rounders and watch, watch Al-Murray cook. All right. We're going to take a break right here. We'll come back with the mailbag. All right, let's dive into the mailbag here. Good questions today.

First one is from Web Rister. Should we be worried about more at Cider? Or is it just a slow start asking for my fantasy team? Well, we can answer that for more than just Weep Rister's fantasy team. I'm sure Detroit fans and NHL fans in general are more interested in the Sider start. I mean, he's playing still a big miss for the team, but he only got the five points so far on the season. Might as well start with the guy who's watched every single one of his games.

Max, what have you seen? so far. Yeah, I think there is some reason for a little bit of worry here with Murat-Sider. I don't think big picture, it's major worry. I think ultimately you see the talent and you haven't stopped seeing that talent really since he was drafted. But what I'm seeing is a lot of rush decisions. He seems like he's trying to do a lot, shift to shift. I know, Corey, you came out to Detroit, watched the Red Wings game recently. I think there was a couple of examples of it in that game. That was one that really went wayward for the Red Wings against the Rangers. But that's what I'm seeing. I think the puck management has been a little rocky. Maybe it's adjustments to new defense

partner. Maybe it's just him trying to really live up to a high bar. But I think, you know, honestly, I know we're not talking about just fantasy here for your fantasy team. I do think there's a little bit of cause to be worried because the offense hasn't been coming as naturally. The Red Wings Power play has been a little better with Philip Heronik on it than with Moritz Sider. And I think big, even, you know, in this kind of medium term for Detroit, big picture, more at Sider is the franchise number one. There's no doubt about that. But I think even in the medium term, but the term of kind of the rest of the season, I think it is fair to be a little bit worried. Right. And it's interesting you go back maybe a couple of years when we think of

Orsider coming up through Germany, coming up through the American League in Sweden to an extent and thinking what the Sky are poor on this player was. It was always to me a big, really mobile defenseman who was very physical and there was offense there, but you were never sure if it's going to be at this really high, high-end puck mover. And then his rookie NHL season comes along. And I was just blown away by the stuff he was doing at the puck, the skisks. just looked so much better than what I'd seen before, that the offensive playmaking was really high-end, and it was, I mean, it went to 50-plus points

and ran their power play, and it was just so impactful offensively, almost every single night. And it's interesting to kind of see what happens in the second season. It's like, okay, well, which player is the real player here? Is he just like, is he this true all-around dynamo, or is he going to be this really good defender with good, not-great offense? I guess we'll see long-term what the answer to that question is.

But I would be less concerned if the problem with his game right now was that he was locked down rock solid defensively and just not producing. To me, the problem has more been, he's been a little erratic and trying to do these high-end puck. There's a play, and you guys will know because you've watched more at sight of a ton that he did so many times last season I can't even count. Where protecting the puck, he would kind of put it through his legs, spin around, and make this miraculous play. And it seemed at times like that was just unstoppable from him. This year, he has flubbed it a couple times. he's had plays where he's trying to cut back and it leads to these turnovers. Now he looks less like this safe defenseman.

You know that's there. Anything he adds is a bonus. And more at times like kind of this wild horse that you're trying to rain in. Yeah. And another thing I think that's happening too is the league has built a better book on him. I think they're better prepared for him as well. And, you know, the thing that you talk about making faster decisions, having to be under pressure more, that's a part of that is game planning. That is part of the way that teams are playing him is they are going after him.

They are attacking him. They are not allowing him to dictate the pace and dictate the shift and have much time to make those decisions. Because, you know, and that's not to say that it was easy last year. It just wasn't. That's not the case. You know, teams figure it out over time. But I think when you, you know, the game continues to get faster and you have to continue to adjust with it. And I agree with you completely.

I'm not worried about his long-term projection. But I think it is something that now you have to correct it before. gets worse. You definitely have to say, okay, let's simplify our game a little bit more. Let's make some of those smart plays because you can read the game just fine. Yeah. It's just don't let, let's pick the right play more often than we're trying to pick, you know, whatever, you know, if we're getting too casual or too cute with the puck, those are different things that he's just, you know, has to clean up. But I think the idea, his, to Corey's point, figuring out what your identity is as a player and and playing to that more is going to allow that consistency. And it's, are you the,

super puck mover? Or are you just a good puck mover that does a little bit of everything well? And can you just be that? So that's another thing. It's kind of like having one specific club in your golf bag that you know when you need it, it's there. But if you start trying to use it, you know, half of your shots on the course, you're probably going to start to have problems. And that's how I look at it for him. It's just knowing when to break some of that stuff out and when to keep it simple. We'll go on to the next one from David G. Owen Tippett seems to be doing well under John Tortorella compared to Frost. who is in is noticeable.

Is this a result of relationships with the coach, or is Frost simply not living up and delivering? Well, you know, Owen, I should say, Morgan Frost is a player that, you know, coming out of junior, I was like, you know what, maybe I didn't love him that much in his draft year, and maybe I was a little bit wrong about him. You know, maybe there's more there.

And I think what we've seen throughout his NHL career is a lot of the things that concerned us before, about him, skating ability, you know, some of these other kind of compete elements in his game aren't there. Like, they're just not, and he hasn't figured it out as an NHL player. You know, he hasn't taken that next step. And, you know, actually when John Tortorello was hired by Philly, I thought to myself, you know, this is not good for Morgan Frost. Not that you would, not that you would try to make a coaching decision for Morgan Frost's benefit, but I thought he does not play the style of hockey that is going to speak to John Porterella.

And that is, that, no, but he's got a little bit more jam to him compared to Morgan Frost, which is not a high bar to clear, but that's, you know. Yeah, I'm not sure it jams the first word comes to mind. No, it isn't. It isn't. But I, he's there's, he's got a little bit more, you know, you, you see the work ethic a little bit more at times between, again, we're not talking about a huge bar to clear, but I think that Tippett has, you know, maybe it's just because he's been around a little bit longer,

he's been through it a little bit more, has had to go through a couple different coaching staffs over the last couple of years. But yeah, I mean, it's, to me, it's not terribly surprising. I don't think either is, like, excelling to a certain high degree. He's playing pretty well. He's playing well, but it's, he's playing. It's a bad team, but he's playing like 17, 18, 19 minutes a night. Yeah, exactly.

He's get an opportunity, which is huge. I mean, like, you know, it's something that. that he's really never had in his career. But it's not like, you know, it's not like he's blowing, blown, blown everybody away with, with his play this season. Kind of building off a conversation

that we had made with Dvorsky and even to maybe a different extent of Chile in Benson. You know, Frost is not a good skater. He's not a two-way guy. Kind of like Chris, I probably under, I probably rate him correctly,

then I overrated him and now, and now back to Earth a little bit. But I think it shows that, you know, when you don't have size, when you don't have speed, when you don't have a high motor, all you have left is your offense. And if you're not creating offense, then you're not doing crap. And I think that's kind of what we're seeing in the case of Frost. It's like, okay, if you don't score, what do I play you?

Whereas to tip it, he's a little bit bigger, he's much faster. At least with that kind of player, there's some transition at value, even strength, where you provide, even if the puck's not going in the net for you all the time. and obviously he does have skill and scoring ability too in his game. So I just think there's, Timberch just always had more pro in his game. Consistency, going back to junior has always been the big knock with him. But he's always had all the tools to succeed as a pro.

Yeah, a little more dimension. It just gives you something to fall back, I think is kind of the key there. Next one is from Philip G. Is the Jordan Dume hype real? Dume, obviously, the third round pick of the Blue Jackets last. year. He was hugely productive already in his draft year. The 5-9 skater, obviously, I think that probably heard him. He is now up over two points per game, though, in the queue at age 18. Obviously, we could probably have a whole episode on what to make of scoring in various junior leagues here.

But let's make Jordan Dumea case study here. Is this for real? It's a good question, because obviously with a guy who scored 110 points in the QMJHL last. season. The people of the NHL I talked to who didn't really love the player last year, and the reason why they didn't love 110 points scoring on the queue last year is, obviously he has great hockey sense, great skill, but they're concerned about the size, not a great skater, and not like, say, like a Zach Benson, this super high motor type, either, just a really gifted offensive player. And they would look at that player and be like, yeah, we knew he had offense.

He had 110 points last season. We figured he was going to score a lot the season after in the QMJHL, what's really changed here. And I think it's a good argument. It's a reasonable argument. Where I would push back a little bit is, yeah, he's scoring a lot, but it's not just scoring a lot. Like his numbers are off the charts. Good. It's over two points a game.

It's not like one and a half, one in a quarter or something like that. And if you kind of look back through history, at least the last 10, 15 years, I mean, I don't think there's another season there that's comparable as you start getting into like the Huberdola-Frenier type of seasons. So you got to give it, it's due that the offense he's producing is quite significant, even though you still have the size and the skating concerns. I guess I don't know where the hype is exactly. If you were to ask me, oh, would he be like a lock first rounder if he readed that draft,

I would say no. He went in the third round. I think he's reasonable to suggest if he redid that draft right now. I think he's probably going in the second round. So I think at some point someone who's good to say, there's just too much offense there. Let's take our shot. I think there's just so much skill it'll work as a pro.

I think with Dume, I would be surprised if he didn't get invited to the World Junior Camp with the way he's playing this season. And I think depending on how he does in that environment, if he outplace some high picks, like a Zach Bullduke or Zach D or something like that. And maybe even forces his way on to a team Canada as an 18-year-old, that would be really interesting.

Yeah, I think that's actually a great point to see. When you narrow these players down, when you get them in that environment where they are playing against their peers that are of a similar caliber, it really does help create a little bit more of that visual separation. It's kind of like a cheat sheet when you're scouting and you're looking at these players

and you're saying, well, now I can see him on the same ice surface with a Zach Bouldoo. I mean, you can't in the queue, but I can see him with other players that are in the mix for the World Junior team and can see kind of how he compares. But, you know, too, that's the other thing, too, is like, you know, the hype is being created by his point production. It's not altogether a surprise that he's doing it. But I do think that, you know, to Corey's point, just looking it up, you know, in terms of U-19, scoring in the league, you know, 2.21 points per game, you know, there's three people ahead of him,

and it's Sidney Crosby twice and Jonathan Druen once, you know. So, I mean, that's, that's, and that also is to the point that, you know, Jonathan Duran once was a 2.2 point per game player in the, in the league as well. And, you know, he's, I wouldn't call that a comp, you know, like it's not, I don't think they're necessarily comparable players. But, but, yeah, but I mean, I just think that everything that George Dume does from here on out, I mean, that he went in the third round, it's all about the risk that was inherent in drafting a player like that. You know, and to Corey's point, I agree with him. I don't think that he would go in the first and last year's class.

But, you know, I think it's fair to say that, hey, maybe he would have gone, you know, 10, 20 spots higher if he was having this similar kind of production at a younger age. Here's a fun one from John D. Of the five major sports, I assume he means hockey, baseball, basketball, American football, and soccer. Who are the best athletes? And I feel like this is a very common debate, but I would want to almost dwindle it down to not by sport, but by like positions in a sport. Like I would want to say like NFL, tight ends and receivers, maybe running backs probably in there. like NBA wings and shooting guards, NBA guards and wings.

Like I feel like you could get really granular with this, but I don't know how John necessarily intends the question. Either you guys have a gut reaction here. I don't have a gut reaction. I think, wasn't it Brendan Shanahan that had the quote about how hockey, like, you know, basically you have to do all of this stuff. You have to have like the speed of a running back. You have to have blah, blah, blah.

You also have to do it on skates. Yes. While guys that are bigger than you are trying to kill you and the puck's flying at 100 miles an hour. I mean, it's tough to say. I mean, I think that, you know, certainly if you look at, I mean, to be an elite athlete in any sport, it takes a very similar mindset. It takes a similar physical makeup. It takes a similar level of strength and different things to be the best of the best.

You know, I mean, like you look at a LeBron James or somebody like that and you're just saying, how, you know, how does it work? And, and the way that athleticism translates to various sports is very different. There's sports where power is more important. There's sports where finesse is more important. So it's a tough question to answer. I don't really have a gut reaction. I mean, I think that, I will say that I think that hockey players in general, it's a tremendously difficult sport to excel in. You know, you're dealing with a smaller player pool to go against, but even being the one percent of the one percent. of that that player pool is incredibly difficult. So, yeah, I guess is that a non-answer?

I guess that's a non-answer. Yeah, pretty lame answer. See if you can do better. Right. I mean, you can pick out like kind of the outliers in other sports where it would be like, yeah, obviously like someone like LeBron and basketball or maybe like an iron judge and baseball. But for me, the most impressive athletes are in football.

I just think, and I just think it's because American culture where we send in our most premium athletes to that sport, the guys who are the biggest and fastest tend to become football players. And I think a lot of their sport translates to natural athleticism. I think it's why you see the NFL combine is so valuable a resource when it comes to the draft because those are exercises that test natural athleticism, whereas sports like hockey and in baseball, there's more of a technical skill component to those sports. But if in football, if you're big and you can run fast, you can be an elite player, at least

at some positions. I mean, I look at what some linebackers or defensive ends look like and how they move. And I don't see those guys in hockey or baseball or or soccer personally. I think what we can all agree is that it's just absolutely not baseball. And that's the standard. There we go. Nailed it. You didn't think David Ortiz was most naturally athletic superstar. David Wells was one of my favorites. Bartolo's. Yeah. Those guys made me feel like I could also do that. But then I realized I couldn't throw a ball 90 miles an hour. Here's how I know it's not baseball.

I covered baseball for one year. And on multiple occasions, I was mistaken for a player. Not just because I was like 23, but because people thought like I looked like and was built like one of the players. That's how I know it's not baseball. Jonathan P. says if Madveh Mischkov were playing in North America and did not have contract issues in the KHL, would you be in a more serious conversation for number one?

do you see with the team with the third pick, potentially moving out of it, if another team values a long play more than the team actually picking? We can just dwindle this down. I really think that the first half of this question is what's important here, Corey, is that if Madh van Michkov was playing in a U.S. college or in American juniors, or heck, even in one of the Swedish or Finnish pro leagues, is he in that conversation with Connor Bedard and Adam Fantilli, or is it still kind of, he's the third man? I mean, I think he would definitely be in the conversation. And I think with some clubs, he is still. in that conversation. I think with some club that talked to, they still, I mean, they know what

that they saw the last few years when they've got a chance to watch this player live and they they realize how unique and offensive player this is. So I think he is still much in the conversation, but I do think when push comes to the show, given all those other variables, and given not only the geopolitical issues going on and contract, but then you have the position too, we have two centers, We did the Conrobinart Center debate, but for now he's a center who are playing very well. I just think that they'll be the other way. But, yeah, if he was here playing Major Junior, yeah, doing what, like I say, Patrick Kane did in the O.HL or something like that, then I think he would very much be in that conversation. Yeah, I 100% agree with that.

I mean, and that's a thing. Like, if you put him in the CHL right now, I still feel the way that he thinks the game, he thinks it at a level that junior players do not think the game. at offensively. He just, he is at a different level. If you put him there, I think, and that was the same thing with Patrick Kane. Patrick Kane had two years of the national team program before he went to London, and then he was just an absolutely unstoppable force in junior hockey. And I think that Mitchcove absolutely could be that. I think the way that he thinks the game, I personally think he had offensively, offensive hockey sense specifically, there is nobody in this draft, not even Connor Bedard that compares to Maffa, Mitchcove for me.

You saw Yakopov's U-18s live, right? I did. Yeah, I mean, this guy wouldn't even be, it wouldn't even be close to them, I would say, at the same age. Yeah, no, not at all. I mean, like, but that,

I'm looking for a comp about a Russian who played in North America and went very high in the draft. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And, yeah, I mean, it's, he, he's off the charts compared to that. And, yeah, so, so, yeah, I, and I still, for me, he's still in that same. Like, I kind of clump the three together. I have Badard one, but then, you know, I think like, and now, now we're starting to say, hey, maybe Leo Carlson kind of creeps into that group as well for, but I still think that

those three players for all different reasons, too, are special in a special tier. And like, Corey, I don't know, do you, I feel like this is as a trio since I've been doing this, this might be one of the, like, let's say Mitchcov does go third. Has there been, has there been a better player that's, gone third overall in the last since you've been doing this right i mean you have to go i think back to that 2013 draft to kind of he didn't he went third but probably ended in the third pick in hindsight but i think at the time mckiton bark up drew in that would kind of be a similar type of discussion yeah yeah yeah and yeah if we're looking at it specifically for how we viewed that draft season

yeah right and then then then set dry side for yeah yeah yeah yeah so it's It's just, it's crazy. Yeah. All right. Next one's from Chris Roberts, who wants to know about Cutter-Gote's Torrid start and whether it's increased his stock at all or given a clear view of his upside. Gotee, obviously, fifth overall pick in last year's draft to Philadelphia. He's got six goals and nine points in his first eight games at Boston College.

So, Corey, we'll start with you here. Is Gote's stock on the rise, or is this just about what you expect from the fifth overall pick? I would say the latter, maybe even a little bit more than what you expected because you weren't sure as a guy who. who wasn't, you know, have incredible numbers in junior last year, how well he was going to transition, particularly to being a full-time center at Boston College as a freshman.

You know, I've watched some games, you know, I've watched some of his games. Some of them have been very impressive, some of them maybe not quite as impressive. But overall, the stats are very positive. And, yeah, I think his stock is more holding steady than going up or down in a significant way. Again, he was a fifth overall pick. I don't forget remember where Chris hadn't rated,

but I had him, I think, five or six on my list. I think Chris might have him around us. Yeah. I think I had him fifth. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, we both really like the player. We both saw a six two guy who could skate, had skills, scoring ability, two-way guy.

I think this is just what you kind of expect when you pick the guy fifth overall. He's going to be a really good player. Yeah, I'd agree with that. I mean, I think that the important thing is that he's transitioning comfortably to center, that he's doing things. Well, you know, the goal scoring hasn't curtailed. You know, that's a big thing. you, the question was is he's such an effective goal score as a wing.

Is he going to still be able to produce goals from the center position while also taking care of all the other responsibilities? And I think that as of right now, he has. Boston College has not been good this season. They're trending up lately. He missed some games at the beginning of the season for some personal reasons, was out of the lineup for a little bit. And now he's come back in and it's been like, you know, no problem.

So he's a, coming into this season. a lot of the guys that went high in the draft in the first round have had strong seasons to start. So, I mean, I think that he's, you know, he's doing what you want. And the other thing that was important about Cutter-Gotee in his draft year, and the reason that I've moved him up my board late in the process was that a lot of it is tied to his upside. We're not seeing him right now even close to, you know, scratching the surface of what we ultimately believe that he can be. That was the, he's, you know, we talk about great athletes. I thought he was one of the best pure athletes in the draft last year because of his size, his physical strength, his physical

strength and then also his ability to score and all those different things. So I think he is on track for where he should be. And if you are a Flyers fan, be very comfortable with where he's at right now. And also don't necessarily feel like he is absolutely coming out after this season, because I don't necessarily know if that would be the right move because we've seen a lot of guys spend that second year there. And I still think there's more development for him to do. And if he doesn't, don't freak out. It's probably a good thing. He'll arrive a little bit more prepared to make an impact. All right. We're going to close with another one from John D. who I think at this point is our official purveyor of silly questions to end the podcast on.

Two in one episode today. So shout out to John D for that. What was your worst or funniest experience on the road seeing prospects? Flea back hotel, awful food, a delay in flights that went dazed on hours. Chris, what's the first trip that comes to mind for you? And I have a lot. I actually, I did it too. We're not going to go through all of them, but I'd mark down like four or five of this. Instantly came to mind kind of thing. This actually, I have two that I'll share.

One is actually before I started in prospects, I was actually working for the national team development program at the time. I went home for Christmas ahead of, and at this point, the World Under 17 Challenge was at Christmas time. It was at the same time as the world juniors. And I went home for Christmas. Our flight left on Christmas night. And so I left my house in Chicago, my parents' house.

I was before I got married. It was at my parents' house going back to Michigan. Caught in an ice storm. Four-hour traffic jam. I was not going to get back to Ann Arbor in time for the flight that night. So I go home. I drive all the way back to my parents' house. Already in northwest Indiana, I drive back to my parents' house.

By the way, there was a UPS semi-truck that was across four lanes of traffic. That's why it was all slowed down. So I'm sliding around getting back to me an hour to get back to my parents' house. Then I go, I get to their house and I'm leaving. I'm about to leave. I fall. I've got the ice storm is still bad. I had my laptop bag in my one arm.

I fell on top of it. Smash my laptop. Completely smashed. Didn't realize that until I got on the plane in Chicago because I had to book a separate flight to meet the team in Seattle because we were going to Vancouver Island. And so I had to go to flew to Seattle. My bags did not make it to Seattle. I had to go to Vancouver Island.

Still didn't make it six days without clothes. I did manage to meet the team in Seattle. I got there before they did, oddly enough. Definitely was not happy. My boss was not happy they had to pay for two plane tickets for me. But that was by far the worst travel experience I've ever had. And the second one, Corey, teed me up for this. Germany last year, one of the best modes of transportation getting around Munich is a lime scooter.

Did not have a car there. And late one night after meeting with sources, I decided to take a lime scooter back to my hotel. It was going to be about a 20-minute scoot. On the way back, however, I went a little too fast and I tried to get around this couple that was walking. What I didn't see was a bike rack that was right there in front. miss the bike rack. However, I then swerved into a bunch of cafe tables, smashing my knee and I was very badly bloodied the rest of the night.

Definitely ruined a pair of jeans that night. But that was my own doing. That wasn't because I was watching players. That was because I was out and then I was trying to get back and then slammed into a bunch of, so personal injury. And then even last week, I mean, just going to the Five Nations. I got a flat tire 10 minutes away from the Detroit airport. So it's like, you know, well, and it was also 11 o'clock at night.

So these are traveling, you know, there are a lot of scouts that have way worse stories than mine. And there's certainly, it's actually can be a dangerous job in the winter. But those are probably two of my worst experiences travel-wise. I definitely have a few blizzard stories. He probably can throw in their close calls with the winter. So John mentioned Fleabag Hotel. So that triggered a memory for me there. Name names.

Well, so this was my first assignment ever, you know, traveling as a journalist. I was sent to cover the World Junior camps in Lake Placid. Chris, you've been there a couple of times, I presume. And you will know that it is not a cheap trip going to Lake Placid. It is not. That place, especially in the summer when the tournament was being held, is a prime tourist destination. and those are expensive hotels. ESPN, who I was working for on the assignment,

gave me a budget for the tournament of $500. So I had to stretch that out a little bit. And thus, I did not get into a Marriott or a Hilton. I had to find just like the lowest grade motel possible so that I can stay there for several nights. And the place I found, it was like a 45-ish minute drive away from the tournament site. It's like in the middle of the woods. It was like this motel where you can literally see the four rooms.

Like there was just a visible four-room motel, all one level. You get there. There's just one guy. It was just like a plain white t-shirt just smoking on a rocking chair outside of his room right now. you get i'm like in a suit i stand out a little bit in this environment coming from the camp uh the room smells something really funny uh if you really want to picture it think of any of your favorite horror movies you've ever watched or someone to get stabbed in a motel room and that's what this place looked like um uh and i had to stretch that out for a week uh and i think at one point

I transitioned to another like hotel motel type of thing where I had like a Christmas theme to it, which was interesting to go to in August. That was a unique experience, particularly for your first time on the road. And there's a couple other ones in there that are more funny or interesting and sometimes dangerous. I've had several car accidents while traveling for work. But one of which the other one will share is one that a long-time podcast listeners will be aware of, because we shared it with you as it was happening. It was when Chris and I were both at the U18 Worlds in Sweden. The context of which is it was a great tournament.

One of my most memorable tournaments I ever traveled to was U18 World in Omea and Orange Schultz speak, the Jack Hughes tournament, the Colophiel tournament. Lucas Raymond. Yaroslavaskarov. Just a great tournament overall with so many highlights and memorable moments. And not coincidentally, it ended with a memorable moment, not the Lucas Raymond hat trick in overtime winner in front of the home crowd. But we had learned in the final day of that tournament,

as we were staying in Orrin, so it speak, a lot of people are flying out of the Umea airport to get up to Stockholm and then from Stockholm going home is that the main airline that had flown us everybody from Stockholm to Omea was SAS

and right around the end of the tournament there was a pilot strike which was a very pleasant thing to hear and thus we all had to make it to Stockholm the next day somehow And of course, you know, it was the gold medal game. The gold medal game was overtime.

So we weren't out of that building, I think, until midnight. And thus the brilliant idea that both Chris, myself and then Craig Custins, who used to work in hockey, I don't know what he does anymore. Whatever happened to that guy? Yeah, he's around somewhere. Is we decided we were going to take an overnight drive from, so to speak, to Stockholm, which I believe was like a seven hour drive, five hour drive. Five. It felt like seven. Yeah. And yeah, we just drove right through the night.

Just having, it was an interesting experience. We recorded a podcast. Yes, that was a great podcast. I remember that episode. We didn't record a podcast. That's why I said that people might remember this in. I'm pretty sure Craig violated several traffic laws. Well, he definitely almost blew a red light.

That stayed in the show when I, I was like, red light, Craig, red light. I'm sure recording a podcast violates some sort of laws while driving. Yeah, I hope the statute of limitations is not going to catch up to us on that one. But I don't know Sweden's laws that well. But, yeah, though that was definitely a very memorable experience. And Craig and Chris made their flights with a decent amount of time. Although I think you had like an issue connecting through, I believe it was Poland.

Uh, yeah, yeah, that, that was a long journey. I had to, because SAS was out, there was no flights. So I had to get on, uh, I think it was Delta to, yeah, and then I had to go to Warsaw and then I had to go to Chicago and then I had to get home to Iowa. So it was, uh, it was, I think, I think all told that, you know, including the drive time, it was basically a 29 hour travel day straight through. So yeah, it was a lot of fun. It was a lot of fun. Memories were made. Memories were made podcast stories now told. Yes, lots of those. Awesome. All right, that is going to do it for us. Thanks for listening to this episode of the Athletic Hockey Show prospect series. You follow us on YouTube at YouTube.com slash at The Athletic Hockey Show. You can also catch more of Chris over at Flow Hockey and his podcast Talking Hockey Sense.

And right now, you can subscribe to The Athletic for $1 a month for six months when you visit Theathletic.com slash hockey show. We'll talk to you soon.