The Athletic Hockey Show - NHL Draft 2024: Pronman and Wheeler break down their two round mock

Episode Date: May 24, 2024

On today’s episode of The Athletic Hockey Show Prospect Series, Max leads Corey and Scott through their first two round mock draft of the season, the guys deep dive on the goalie prospects in this year’s draft class, and then answer some great listener questions in a loaded mailbag to close the show. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the Athletic Hockey Show Prospect Series. Hey, everybody, Max Bolton here alongside Corey Pranman and Scott Wheeler for another episode of the Athletic Hockey Show Prospect Series. Chris Peter has abandoned us this week. But we still got a very good show on tap. Scott and Corey are going to talk about their two-round mock draft. We're going to dive into the goalie class of 2024 and then yet another really, really good mailbag with some really good questions from our listeners. Before we get to all that, though, it is an exciting week for the athletic podcast. network. Nobody covers women's soccer like Meg Linnehan, and her podcast full-time is now back.

Meg and new co-host Tamara Griffin are breaking down new women's national team head coach Emma Hayes first roster as the team prepares for the Olympics this summer. They're also going to be joined by Brazilian forward Debian forward Debian who plays for the Casey Current to discuss Brazil being named the 27 World Cup hosts. Some really good stuff you're not going to want to miss. And with that said, let's get into the hockey show guys. Scott and Corey, how are we doing? No, doing well, Max. Great to be here. Obviously, this is crunch time for Scott and I right now.

I'm looking forward to coming your way in a couple of weeks. Actually, not even a couple of weeks, a week from today for the beautiful Memorial Cup in Saginaw, Michigan, Max. Yeah, you're going to be right near the Christmas capital of Michigan up there near Frankenmuth. So that should be a good time. And some draft eligible is on tap at the Memorial Cup. It should be really fun to see Sam Dickinson, Zane Perak. I'm sure we're going to talk about those guys and more as we can. get into kind of your guys's two-round mock draft. I'm always really excited when the two-round

mock start coming out because that's where I think it gets real juicy in there. I think we get a little we get a little tunnel vision sometimes on the top 10, and that's not going to be an exception today on the show, but I do love seeing when you guys stretch it really to 64 and eventually when Corey goes to the seven round. So with that said, let's get right into it, guys. The dueling mock draft, we'll start with Corey. When you kind of look at this exercise, what I see is the value in it is you get the factor of the competing lists, whereas when you have your own mock draft, you're kind of just going on what you're hearing and kind of how you rank the guys. But when you get multiple people involved, it does start to simulate a little closer to what the

real draft is like where you have different lists and how that can shake up kind of the presumptive order. Yeah, I agree with that. And when we get to the, we're going to do another mock in a few weeks where the three of us are going participated in more just being it if it was our opinions. And when you have different opinions, I think. happen that you don't expect. You know, I think based on the comments that you and Scott sent to me shortly after,

I think both of you were frankly a little surprise when I picked Stein Solberg for the sharks at 14th overall. And obviously, maybe I'm guessing you guys didn't see it that way, but I think he's a guy who could quite frankly go in the teams. So you're right. When you have different perspectives, it couldn't create things that you think are unexpected. Let's start there, because Solberg's a good jumping off point. We do get a big run on defensemen. Eight of the top 16 in this mock are defensemen, Scott. How close do you think that

kind of scenario is to happening on a real draft day? It's feeling increasingly like that. I think the emergence of Solberg to sort of add to that that big group of six at the top. We know that the top 60 are going to go early, potentially even in the top 10, top 11. You could see all of those name's gone. You could see four or five of them gone within the first seven or eight picks. After that, Ken Solberg sort of joined that group. It's trending that way with the way that he's played at men's worlds for Norway. And then the big question mark in terms of making it going from seven to potentially eight is your check. And just the feel that teams have on him, despite the fact that he hasn't played since Boxing Day. So I think it's possible. Those eight

do feel like they've sort of emerged. It does feel like Solberg, has sort of joined, if not joined that group of six, then is the next in line to get picked in that sort of wider range in the teens. So I think there's a real opportunity that we see in the front half of the first round, that we see half of the kids take and be defensemen. And it's really, you've got to go back to 2012, which is crazy to think about 12 years ago, but you really have to go back to 2012 to find a D with that many D,

or a draft with that many D taking at the top. Corey, you've compared kind of the parallels between Solberg and more at cider in his draft year with the league and kind of the rise out of the international events. I know it's not a one-for-one with the players, but can you just talk a little more about kind of Solberg's rise and why it reminds you so much of cider? Yeah, and I think the major distinction, too, would be the size, you know, cider's, you know, just bigger, six, six, four, very physically imposing Solberg's closer to six-two. And the, the trajectories in terms of, you know, not playing in the league with a, with a rich

history of producing NHL players as draft eligibles, where their best play was on the international stage, where they are big mobile athletic defensemen who are very physical, who are at times having their pure offensive touch question. I think there are similarities in that regard. I think the projection for Solberg, like the names that I think of when I watch him is not cider particularly because of that size variable. I think it's more like, could he be Kate and Gully. Could he be Brayden Schneider? I think those are the type of recent draft prospects that I can more connect the dots to. When we look at the top four of this class, just sticking with the D for a second here, you guys have three of them now in the top four. And I know that there is some debate around

Demadov. That's probably the swing factor in this case here is Demadov going at five instead of at two. The strength of this class, and how do you kind of parse who's going to go where when you have such a cluster right at the top of the draft. You mentioned the 2012 draft. I have thought about the 2008 draft, too, when thinking about this draft class. In the 2008 draft, you had the no doubt number one, centerman and Stephen Stamcoast. And then you had that run on defensemen, you know, Drew Dowdy, Zach Bogian, Luke Shen, and Alex Petrangelo.

And then you had this really skilled Russian winger who had laid up the junior league and Nikita Philotov go at six. you know, and that, you know, and I think there is a chance that plays out just because teams play such a premium on defensemen. And I'm not saying there is definitely a chance Demodov can go as high as two, quite frankly. But I think if, you know, I definitely would not have a rule out of scenario where teams just value those big, talented defensemen and think about what they can mean in terms of building an initial organization. One of the products, Scott, of all these D going so early is that it does force some forwards who we've, talked about in the top 10 to 12 all year long, getting pushed down a little bit. And I think in this mock, the best example, that's Consta Heleneas. This has actually happened the exact same way

in our staff mock. Consta Heleneus was still around at number 15 for Detroit. And you took him there for the Red Wings. Heleneus is a guy we talked about really high in this class, though. Like how likely do you think it is that something like this could happen? And why has Heleneas kind of been seemingly kind of the odd man out when you do this? I think it's a fact. of just sort of that recency bias and that last sort of viewing. A lot of these players are done playing. A lot of them finish strongly. And if they didn't finish strongly, they finished injured, whether it was Kaden Lindstrom,

et cetera. In Hellenius's case, excellent league of playoffs. If that league of playoffs and even the first couple of games that he played in exhibition with the Finnish national team against Latvia before he went off to U18s where he was centering their second line and he was excellent in both of those games. And he had three points in the two games that he played, his first two games as an 18-year-old with the men's national team. If that had been his finishing point, I think we're still probably having a 10-11 conversation.

Is he a top-10 pick debate? I think increasingly that feels like that's slipping. I think part of that is the defenseman that you mentioned. I think part of it is the play of Beckett Seneke, who during this window of play at U-18 worlds and at men's worlds where Heleneas has underwhelmed, Seneca went on a run with Oshawa in the playoffs before he got injured and was tremendous. and T. Jiginla sort of continued to build momentum as the season went on. And it just feels like that group at the top of the draft as a result has widened a little bit.

And Pelanius could be a bit of an odd man out. And it's crazy to think about that, considering his track record. We're talking about a player who's played pro hockey the last two years extremely successfully. His coach Oly Okina told me he thinks he can play in the NHL next year potentially and challenge for a job with whatever team drafts him. I think that's a bit of a long shot. but that's the kind of conversation that just a couple of months ago people were having about Heleneas and it just feels like if there is a guy whose stock has maybe cooled a little bit from U18 worlds where he was good but not great and now men's worlds where he's been in and out of the lineup

it feels like he could be a sort of he could suffer that fate a little bit one pick I wanted to get your thoughts on Scott was nine I like tijiginla a lot I think he fits in that range I've seen a lot of talk on like higher in the draft and I've heard that buzz like oh maybe he can go as high as five or whatever and I believe it I just not what I personally see when I watch the player

I think he's closer to 10 as a hockey player but you gave him the Calgary and I'd be curious for your thought process there because just like me as and I have no idea who they like or what they're going to do with this one I just think I can't take that kick come on like

If he was like the third best player on their list, maybe or something like, I can't take him. Like you're like it's going to be a shit show if they take him. I think there was a little bit of that thought for me, but it honestly wasn't, it wasn't a, me drawing a line between, between Jerome and Teage and making the pick that way. I think it more had to do with, they, they've drafted players of a similar profile. Matt Coronado comes to mind. Teage has, is maybe even a little bit better skater than Coronado is. and Coronado was a great skater, but competitive score types.

It's a profile that they've liked in that range, the way that our draft played out, I think ideally they would have liked to get sort of one of the top D. They could really use a premium D prospect in that organization. But I don't think that the kids that they've taken, whether it's Zeri or Coronado, mean that they don't have to go after a forward. So I was thinking long and hard about both Berkeley Cat and Antiggenla there. Berkeley was obviously available and went a couple of picks later in our mock. Carter Yakimchuk obviously played in their backyard for the team.

I mean, the Calgary Hitman and the Calgary Flames are jointly owned, which I think is not nothing. We saw the Dallas Stars who own the Camloops Blazers have taken actually two players from the Camloops Blazers in the last couple of years. So I don't know. I think there was a lot to kick. There was a lot that I kicked around there, but I do think that they could use that sort of, that, one punch score, the finishing ability, the offensive upside that isn't really available in a Constellaneous there, for example. So I thought about Katten, I thought about Seneca, I thought about Teage, Teage felt like a good fit as in terms of the profile of the player that they've

targeted. I will, I think there's a 50-50 chance this is going to happen, but I'm just going to be so intrigued if a Ginnla goes over Katten on draft day. Like, yeah, like, I don't. Like, Katten had like you know again was the goal this great goal score and like I think catten had like five to ten more goals than him this year and like 30 more points but again was bigger he's like an inch and a half bigger plays a less premium position and not as dynamic a skater I will be really intrigued just where this guy's going to end up going so it feels like this hype machine has gotten a little out of control and I maybe I'm wrong on this one but that's just how I've I felt that I just think if he goes to Calgary, I don't know.

I feel like the hype will just like just implode on itself essentially. Yeah. I have I have cat in four or five spots higher than a game less. So I'm with you there. But yeah, it'll be interesting to see how the two of them, especially as WHL guys, et cetera, et cetera, see how that shakes out. Corey, a couple of your picks I wanted to ask you about are two guys

who seem to rise out of the U-18s. that was at 18 and 22, Jet Lucenko and Colbo Duan. How much did they improve their stock with that tournament? And is this even the highest they could go? I think they were going in that direction prior to that tournament. I think they were being really well liked by teams prior to that tournament. And then not only were they just good in that tournament, they were essential to Team Canada by the tournament.

Team Canada felt they needed those guys on the ice at any given moment in that gold medal game against the U.S. and I think given the degree of NHL talent that was on that U.S. team, I think that was really appealing to all the decision makers that were there at that tournament when they see the competitiveness that both of those players have, the great skating that Lachenko has. And I think the people who are watching that tournament can see the projectability for both of those guys into the NHL game, a way where, you know, I don't know if either of them are going to have

a ton of offense in the NHL, but you can see in a different. draft where there really isn't a pun of premium center talent. I think these are two of the few players in the draft who I look at, I say, I think they have a really good chance to become an NHL center, a legit top nine NHL center. And that's the range of the draft where those type of players tend to go. Lucenko goes earlier of the two in this mock for you, Corey. Is that because of the skating? Is it because of a little more off? Yeah. Yeah, skating. He's a great skater. Bo Dwen is just an average skater even though he's about three inches taller. Really good stuff in this one.

We'd definitely encourage everybody to go read this two-round mock from Scott and Corey on the athletic. We're going to take a quick break. Corey and I are going to come back and talk goalies and then Scott will jump back in with us for the mailback. Okay, we are back. And Corey, we've talked pretty much in depth at every position in the draft so far of this class, except for one, and that's in net. And part of that I think is obvious reason. There is not a Yaroslav Ascarov.

there is not a Yesper Walsett, Sebastian Kosa or a Spencer Knight in this class that would have us talking potentially in the top 20s, but in the first round. But as the year has gone on, it does seem like there's been a little bit more of a goaltender picture developing. And that's kind of reflected in the mock draft where a couple of goalies go off the board in the second round between you and Scott. Can you just tell us a little bit about this goalie class and what you're seeing from it? Yeah, I tend to agree.

I think at the beginning of the year, I did not see an obvious top goalie prospect. And by top goalie prospect, I meant even someone who I thought would be appealing in the second round. But as the year went on, I don't think we have that quote unquote top goalie prospect. But I think there are names that have appealed to NHL teams as the year progressed. My number one ranked goalie prospect right now is Marcus Gidloff, who plays in Lexans in Sweden. The guy is 6'4.6. He moves very well for a big man. I think he's technically sound.

He put up very good numbers in Sweden's Junior League this year. I think he is going to be a second or a third round draft pick. I don't think his next player's numbers is as appealing in Mikhail Yegorov, who played in Omaha in the USHL. I think he's like an 890-something same percentage this year. But Omaha was really bad. And I think there are some scouts who are willing to forgive his numbers a little bit because he is 6'5 and he is very, I think.

athletic. And quite frankly, if I was just like looking at the player from what I saw this year and like just judging the traits, I would say he looks like a top 40 to 50 player in this drag class. I didn't put him there on my eventual list just because of the statistics. Like it's hard to look past an 898 percentage and give that guy a major stamp. But I could see him become a really good pro goalie because he has a ton of upside and the traits you look for and project. and NHL goaltender. And in talking to people around the league, there's other goalies that appeal to teams, but I'm gaining the sense it's either going to be Gidloff or Yeagerov, who will be the first goalie picked and probably in the second round, maybe third round, but I think probably the second round. One of the names that stood out to me in this class, and he's a triple overager, so I have no idea what that means for his range.

But Ilya Nabokov in the KHL is 21 years old already, but he put up a huge postseason there. in Medalard. Yeah, he was the MVP of the KHL playoffs. And Medellarge had a really good overall team. But Nabokov was the biggest reason why they won a championship this season. And he had a really good regular season too. It wasn't like he just got hot for a couple of weeks.

You know, a very impressive overall year for Nabokov. But yes, he is a fourth year eligible. He is not that big. He's about 6'0. So then the question just becomes exactly, you know, what does he look like in the NHL? I talk to scouts who are quite skeptical of his pro projection into the NHL just because of that side.

And I think while he's pretty athletic, when I watch him, I don't see it's like elite small man athleticism, but he is really intelligent. He does move well. He is, you know, technically a smooth goalie.

So I think you're kind of like talking about this like Dustin Wolf, Devon Levi type of prospect. And, you know, those guys, I think maybe they hit, maybe they don't, they worry some teams to have to a degree. I don't know if Nabokov's going to be a really high pick. But I remember when the Oilers took Ilya Kalyanov in the third round, it was kind of similar skill set and trajectory.

Obviously, Konavalov didn't hit. Not everybody hits, but I can see Nabokov being a third or a fourth round pick. And then another Russian, I think also another overager, is the Skagoli, Moisevich? Yeah, I actually watched Moisevich briefly last year. liked him and I think he actually put up decent numbers in the brief. And I think it was like he played like 10 games in his first draft eligible season. It's like, oh, he's six five. Like he seems pretty smart. Like he's making some tough saves. I thought it was interesting. I didn't have, I just didn't think the sample was was big enough for me to put him on my list. And ultimately he

wasn't drafted. And then this year comes, plays really well in the VHL, comes up to the KHL, plays well for Scott and more of a backup rule. I think he even got into a playoff game or two for Scott there in the postseason. I don't think it's elite side to side quickness, but I think It's good enough for 6'5 to where I think you could see a path to where he could become an NHL goaltender. And I think it's going to be really interesting that, you know, just I think, you know, whether it's Nabokov, whether it's Moisev, whether it's Krials of Rubin. I think quite a few. And Yeager, obviously, though he's in North America, I think quite a few of the top goalie prospects this year are Russians. How much do you think?

I mean, even when you look at the landscape of the NH, so much of the top kind of tier of goalies is made up of Russians. Is that something that NHL teams are going to put any stock into in terms of how they're developed? Does it make you kind of more inclined to look at those Russian goalies? Or is that just finding a commonality that doesn't actually mean anything? I think there's also kind of a cultural thing. I think in North America, especially with how many options our best athletes have, you know, if I was a parent, quite frankly, of a great athlete and all the options play sports in North America, I probably wouldn't want them to pick goalie.

It's a very specialized position that you need, a particular equipment and training and takes a long time to return on investment. But I think, you know, in Russia, like it almost feels like defensemen is like kind of like the ugly position there for, you know, their best athletes tend to pick hockey forward and a lot of them tend to become goaltenders. You see a lot of big athletic goaltenders in Russia that you don't often see coming up in the CHL ranks or the USHL ranks. So I just think that's part of the variable. But yes, I mean, yes, there's been a lot of really good Russian goalies lately. And I think Ascarov is coming.

He's going to be the next grade Russian goalie in the NHL. And it definitely seems to be a bit of a trend. One more name that I think may be a little more familiar to our listeners is the player who is in net for Canada at the U-18s. And that's Carter George. What do you see is kind of his projection and his range in this draft class? He's been a really tough one for me this year because I respect the year he had. He's been a really good junior goalie. He was the best goalie that you 18 had.

I thought I had some really impressive games, making a lot of tough saves. It looked very good when I watched when Owen Sound in the OHL, put up respectable numbers. It's just the size. Like he is barely 6'1. And the same issues with the Bacoff, quite frankly. Like when you're barely 6'1, the questions I start asking is, okay, well, You're talented clearly, but is it special talent? Like, I remember watching you say Saros when he was 17 years old, and his talent jumped out at you.

He looked like an athletic freak at that age. And that made me think, okay, this guy has a real chance to make it, to become an important goalie for his NHL organization because he is freaky athletic. And when I watch the Bacca up, when I watch George, I can't get there with them. I might be wrong, but, you know, just like I might be wrong that maybe Hudson Wolf is going to become this legit number one top 10 goal in the NHL. But a lot of teams tend to bet the other way when it comes to the guys of those profiles. But I think I know enough teams like George to where I think he could be like a third or fourth round draft pick. I just, at least at Nabokov, he saw it versus men at a really high level. Like with George, he'd make me nervous with where, you know, I think he's the number

one ranked North American goalie by Central. Like, I think his profile would make me a little nervous. Is goalie the position where scouts are least likely to be worried about a guy being an overage? Like when we talk about Nabokov in particular, I guess here, like, you know, for him to be 21, that doesn't seem like as big of a variable as it would be if we were talking about a four. No, I don't think teams are as concerned with the overreaching.

age goalies, I think in part because goalies do take a while for them to come into the league. I think you look around the NHL and you look at, say, the top 15 to 20 goalies in the league right now, and you look at when was the first time they ever played 30 or 40 games in a season. And the number is quite high. It's not 22. It's not 23. That average age is in the mid-20s. And I think it's part because of the position.

I also think it's just part because of job scarcity. There's only 64 jobs in the NHL, and those guys don't like giving up those jobs. So it does take some time for these guys to get their foothold in the league. So yes, I don't think teams are as afraid of picking an older goalie, especially if they're Russian or European or go out of college where they can really be patient and wait on those players. If I gave you an over under of like two and a half goalies by pick 70, what would you take this year? Ooh. I would probably take the under, but I think if you probably, that close to like 80 to 85, I might take the over.

Okay. So we're right in that range there. So late second, early third is where you can see if there's going to be a run on goalies. And there kind of was at the start of the second last year. Maybe we're talking about the two, three turn or into the early third there of this year. Yeah, I think that's about right. But I think, you know, it's probably the run on goalies is probably going to happen about maybe 10 to 15 picks later than. it did last season. All right. Let's get back to it. And another really good mailbag. So shout out to the listeners. You guys have been bringing the heat the last few weeks on these mailbag questions.

Really good stuff. We're going to start with you, Corey, on this one. J.B. wants to know, are you an eye test or an analytics type of evaluator? He says, I see the benefits of both and see many teams are involving more analytics, which in your experience has been more accurate at predicting NHL talent. So I guess it's a two-parter there. How do you see yourself and how do you see kind of NHAs? HL teams, the accuracy and how they lean.

I don't think anybody I know in the league likes to ignore information or things that they think will help predict players' success. I think everybody who is in this business will try to use any type of information they can get that they think is reliable and predictive. And so in that sense, like I think it's not like a direct answer to that question, but I don't view myself as someone who just focuses on numbers or just focuses on what the player looks like. You know, I try to use everything.

I can't. I will say that when I was starting doing this, I definitely, I think was someone who was much more statistically inclined. And as time has gone on, and I've gone through the trials of seeing draft classes graduate, seeing, frankly, players I scouted when they were 17 or 18, retire and seeing many age group progress, I have trended more towards trusting what I'm watching on the ice.

Whether that's right or wrong, I don't know. I don't have the math to know what's the best way to do things. It's just in the way my brain has trended towards over the years. And I actually think the numbers can in some way inform your trait evaluation. What do I mean by that? Well, I tend to think generally the guys who score a lot are guys who you will give the highest grades to when it comes to skill and hockey sense and scoring abilities. And the guys who don't score that much at a given level adjusted for context tend to not get the higher grades you get on their puck play and their hockey sense. But I've learned as well that those are not the only traits that matter.

You have to take you account the athlete and the pro projection. You have to understand their skating. You have to understand their work ethic. I have to understand how their frames are going to hold up at the higher levels and incorporate that into your skill analysis. It doesn't mean that I just think points are the only thing I look for. I obviously do watch the player to understand whether I think they are a skilled player or not. But I think it's all part of the process.

And it's something that I learned to try and combine at the best I can, but I still get a lot of things wrong. We talked before about maybe not on this podcast. People talk in general about the way hockey's a little bit behind like a sport like baseball in terms of what their analytics can capture. And I feel like doing that with prospects even takes it to another level because the information that we have on NHL players in terms of underlying numbers, there's even a gap between what we have in the NHL and what you have. If you're scout in like the Western League, you've got to really dig if you want to find advanced numbers on some of those guys. Yeah, I tend to agree. I mean, I think teams have access to more data than what we have here in the public.

that sense. They are able to get, you know, a little bit more of those advanced metrics for players at those levels, whether it's predictive or not as a whole other issue. But yes, I mean, we are, you know, baseball. I have a couple of friends of mine who are baseball scouts and they get like, you know, advanced, like tracking data on high school and college players. It's just a completely different world for them. Next one is from Sunil. What to make of Dvorski season? How much should we read into his struggles in Sweden and his eventual success playing much of the year with a great line in the OHL? I do like Dvorsky because he has a really high skill level. He is a really natural goal score.

He can make plays. He's competitive enough. I do think that, you know, I think I've read whether from Jeremy Rutherford or others that I think the Blues think there's a chance that he can make their team next year. given his struggles in the SHL this year, given I didn't even think his world juniors were that amazing. It would surprise me a little bit

to see him in the NHL next year. Maybe he gets a couple of games, but I would be a little surprised if he was a full-time NHL player next season. I liked his year. It was a very good year, particularly at the end in the OHL,

but I still think he has some things to prove, particularly on the pace front before I start thinking of where he would slot potentially in a top six in the NHL. We touched on this one a little bit with the goalies, Corey, but Red Wings Prospects wants to know who your top 10, you don't have to do that many. But let's just say some of your top re-entry players in this draft are

and who will go the highest in around where. Yeah, like I said, I think Moisevich is going to be potentially a top three-round draft pick. I think that would qualify as relatively high. I think he's got a good, just given how big he is and how good he was versus man, pretty high. I think Jesse Palkinen, 6-6 defensemen in Finland, moves pretty well. He's got some physicality. He could go in a second or third round. I think maybe more towards a second. I think

the puck game with him is a minor question, but there's a lot of traits that make you think he could be at least a third-payer defenseman in the NHL. Owen Allard, who played on Canada's World Junior team, has some offense questions too, but he can absolutely fly. He's one of the best skaters in the draft. He is six-two. I think he will be really appealing to teams. I think those are the main ones that jump out to me. I'm probably skimming over an obvious one or two. I mean, that's how, you know, with with re-entries, sometimes it's just based on who your favorites are, but those are the main ones that jump to mind for me. And of course, Nabokov, like we mentioned earlier. Since you mentioned kind of the speed, is my guy Tommy

Manisto have a shot of getting drafted this year? I think he has a shot, but I don't think he'd be like a top re-entry. Not for me anyway. Maybe maybe someone, I'll see him as like a Jackson Hallam type who went to the third round based on just how good a skater he was, but I couldn't get there with ministo this season. Yeah, okay. All right. So Jeff Schoff says, the nature of scouting means you'll see some kids more than others. How do you avoid undervaluing or overvaluing players that you see more often?

He says as a fan, I know when I look back on my history, I tend to rate players higher if I've seen them more. It's a great question. And I think, listen, I can try and tell you, I have I try to have this point. process of this process to try and take out biases, but I'm human. I have biases. It's impossible to not count for that. For players you might see more. For some players, you meet some players, you don't meet. And it definitely can weigh on you to some degree. I think the way you try the best to try to account for this. And it's the way I think, quite frankly, some teams try to do this, is you want to make sure your evaluation process is systematic. What does that mean? It means that

try to make sure that you're treating every player in a way that is the same for every other player that you have your your tool grades or whatever other evaluation system you might use and no matter what happens when you get to the end of that process you just you stick to it even if you're like oh man but i know this guy really well why but why is he at 70 i like him so much but it's like not just the way your process played out maybe your process needs to be changed but you want to make sure you're always sticking to some sort of system. Otherwise, given just how subjective our job is to begin with,

if you start subjectfully moving guys around just based on favoritism, I don't think that's the best process. And I hate using the word process so much. It's just a buzzword that annoys me, but there I went and did it. It's starting to sound like an HL coach, Corey. Casey wants to know how many teams are kicking themselves that they let Wyatt Johnson slip in the 2021.

draft of the mid-20s. And as a draft analyst, could you talk about what caused him to be lower on draft day than most? Yeah. I mean, I had Johnston, I think right around there on my list that year. I think he was around 20 on my list. And I think, you know, obviously the biggest issue with Johnston's evaluation is he didn't play that season. He didn't. He didn't.

Like, the only games he got were at the U18 World Championships for Canada, where he was a third-line center. He didn't get power play time. He was a penalty killer, essentially. And the only thing, new information teams had about him that they didn't, from where he was 16 in the OHL, was that he grew about three to four inches. But otherwise, that was the only games they got of him and new information they got of him from a 16-year-old season. I liked Johnston going into his draft year, but it wasn't based on what he did at the U-18 Worlds. I liked the growth spurt, but I remember actually scouting him at the U-17 challenge, you know, a year and a half prior to that tournament.

and I thought in there he got to run a power play and he showed like the high-end skill in hockey sense that you're seeing on display now often in Dallas and I like that he was a competitive player I was worried about his skating and I think that's what other teams were worried about too they're like okay he's big and he's competitive he clearly has good hockey sense but it's not the prettiest skater

and now we're wondering if the offense is going to be high high end I liked the offense and I didn't think it was going to be this good I don't think if anybody knew was going to be this good he would have gone top five I mean, a guy who might win the con smite when it's all said and done. But I think those were the variables that led to him going where he went. Do you think there's any part of it where obviously, you know, in that draft class, the story at that tournament was kind of more McTavish.

But having Bedard and Shane Wright as the underager is stealing so much attention at that tournament, too, does that affect, you know, people aren't walking home talking about Wyatt Johnson quite as much because what they just saw Bedard and I think Mitchcove was at that tournament too being really special as a double underage. Yeah, but he didn't. play big minutes. He didn't play. He had a nice little perfect. I don't think he was great though at that tournament. You were like, wow, what a great player. He was good, I thought. And I thought his role kept increasing. I'd even strength as the tournament went along. I don't think he

blew you away. I think the question with Johnston is, what would he have done in his draft year if he had played all year? So I think, you know, he came in and they kind of put him into that third line center, no power play role right away. But what if he had played his whole draftor in the OHL and it scored 100 points. And it really developed and shown the offensive skills that we now know he has in spades. I think that's the ultimate question with Johnston. All right, Scott, let's go to you with this one from NHL and Atlanta. If the Flyers make a trade to move up and take their 1C of the future, do you think it's

likely that A, that 1C exists, or A, do you think it's likely that 1C exists, I should say? And B, do you think that the cost to move up would be 1C? worth it to get that kind of player. Well, the way we've mocked it at the athletic, they've landed Berkeley Caton, who's one of the premium centers in this draft class as is. Now, there's no guarantee that Berkeley Caton is still there at 12. But it's worth considering. That's the kind of decision that they're best to make sort of late in the game.

Like I'm talking, watch it, watch 8, 9, 10 happen or 6, 7, 8, 8, happen and make your decision then if there's a dance partner in terms of moving up a few spots in terms of how the de go and how many of those centers are still available you got to do your do diligence on kaden lindstrom's health and his back and find out where that's at and if that's a move that you're comfortable in making so there's there's a lot of layers there but those those trades almost never happen i'm always partial to just staying put we get a lot of these questions and my My default answer, and it's not a fun one, but my default answer is that the most likely scenario is that no trade happens and that they draft it 12. And you got to hope if you're drafting at 12 and you want that high end center, you look at Caton, you look at Consta Heleneas.

I think Heleneas's stock is cooling a little bit. So he's quite likely going to be there and may be there after that pick. But is it Katten? How far does Lindstrom linger? What does Lindstrom's back look like? all of those questions are things that the flyers have to consider. And this is really isn't a great draft for centers. And like we all see, we love Macklin Celebrini.

And I think he's going to be a first line center in the NHL for quite some time. But but after you get past Celebrini, there's there's forwards I like. And there's guys who have the C next to their name and their prospect profile who I like a lot. But I can't sit here and tell you definitively, I think Berkeley Caton is going to be. a top two line center in the NHL. I think it's top of the line four. I'm not sure about center. Same thing for Kandin, the Strz. Same thing for Consta Heleneas.

I can see a path for all of them to accomplish that, but I don't know if I can sit here and tell you the 510 or the 511 guy is for sure without a doubt going to be a top two line center or the guy with questionable hockey sense at times is going to be a top two

line center in the NHL. I think those are all things they have to prove. And so in terms of, never mind, whether you're trying to draft a top two last, I don't mind trading up to try and get one. I don't think, I just don't see that player in this draft right now. T. Tej is listed as a center by NHL Central Scouting as well, but he's a winger all day. I think he only took like 100 draws for Kelowna this year.

That was late in the year when they needed him to play there. He played predominantly in the wing there and should be in a long term likely. And anything could happen. Like I could see a way that Kaden Lindstrom becomes the next Dylan, Larkin or Rupert Hintz or something like that. I could see a way that Berkeley Caden becomes the next, you know, whatever Logan Cooley or Consta Heleneas becomes the next Vincent Trocheque. All those things could happen.

I just don't think it's extremely likely. There is some risk that you are drafting a winger. And to Scott's point, I will add, there was not a single trade anywhere in the first round last year's draft, not just within the top 10, which is usually where we say, yeah, I don't even bother. Last year it wasn't any in the entire first round. We'll see what the trade landscape looks like this time around. I'm going to come back to you here with this one, Scott, from Patrick McConnell,

who says two guys who have documented hockey sense issues have been Carter, Yakumchuk, and Sam Dickinson. Who has the better hockey sense between the two? I want to start out by not assuming that premise. Do you think that there are hockey sense issues with Yakum Chuck and Dickinson? And regardless, who do you think has a better sense between the two of them? I think I like Dickinson's sense more. I've actually heard it more about Dickinson.

then Yakimchuk, the bigger concern about Yakimchuk has commonly been his feet and just sort of mobility and pivots and that kind of a thing. With Dickinson, it's something that I've heard a lot. And yet I've also gotten a lot of pushback when I did my feature on him and asked a few people who worked, worked sort of with and around him, whether it was coaches in London, staff in London, or even sort of peripheral people in the OHL, rival GMs, that kind of a thing. There was a fair amount of pushback on the sort of Dickinson IQ piece. I think people saw him a year ago and had concerns that way,

but I think he made a lot of progress there. He was a very intelligent for my money player on that blue line for London, really all season this year, and especially in the middle part of the season when they lost guys like Easton Cowan, et cetera, to Oliver Bonk to the world juniors, and he really had to step up and play 30 minutes instead of 20 minutes. Yakum check, I think there's a little bit of that. I think part of that is people reading into the penalty.

multi-minutes and all the minor penalties he takes. I think part of the reason he takes so many penalties more because of the feat than because of the decision-making in terms of stepping up or being undisciplined or that kind of thing. Certainly, he'll cross-check a guy every once in a while and that piece of it. But that feels more like a temperament thing to me than an IQ thing. I think both of those guys read the game fine. I don't think they're going to get exposed because of the way that they think the game at the next level.

I think, if anything, they'll have other issues. and with Yakimchuk, it could be more the skating and the sort of temperament more than the IQ piece. They're not the smartest players in the world, but it's not a concern with me really for either of them. Maybe a little bit more for Yakum Chuck than Dickinson, but I don't think it's a huge red flag in either case. I have it the other way around. I have it where I think Yakimchuk is a little bit smarter personally. The skating piece of that's interesting too, Corey. You and I have talked about this.

When I've walked Yakumchuk, I've kind of gotten different opinions based on the game that I've watched. And you had a point in one of your rankings. I don't know if it's in the most recent board or not. But I think you said that kind of his stride can kind of break down at the end of shifts when he's tired. And I think that kind of resonated with me. It is kind of squaring with what I had watched and why I could have some watches where I think, yeah, this skating is an asset and other times where I think it's a limitation. Yeah, it's not the prettiest stride. Like you kind of see that the feet start flailing at times when he's skating out there.

I think most people I talk to in my opinion is the same, but I think his forward skating is really good. Like he pulls away from guys constantly. He transports pucks up ice like an NHL defenseman. No issues there. I think there is some technical stuff needs to work on. Like I said, I think his backward skating isn't the prettiest.

I think that worries some people a little bit, the pivots, etc. But I don't think it's a major deficiency. I think he'll be a fine NHL skater, particularly for 6-3. I'm not, it's not Dickinson or feet. Dickinson's a pre-

premium skater. But I think given how skill this guy is and the length, I don't have an issue with defeat. I did a feature on Yakumtchuk. When I spoke to Doug Crashly, who's his strength and condition guy and trains, really all of the Calgary-based NHLers, he said, look, from an athletic standpoint,

it's still a work in progress. He's never moved well in the gym. He's never been a natural in the gym. He lifts a lot of weight, but he's not a natural in terms of the movement stuff that they do in the gym. He thinks part of that was just, he had a weight growth spur.

even though he's an older kid in this draft class. He had a growth spurt right before the draft. Both of his brothers are really tall. And he's just sort of one of those classic stories of kid who's still sort of coming into his body, if you will. Good stuff. All right. Next one, Scott, is from Andrew Mayo, who wants to know if there's any chance Montreal takes Saliav at five. We can probably combine this one with another one in the mailbag from Jonathan Morris.

What do you think the ceiling on Salive is? He says he'd love to see Anaheim take him at three. obviously acknowledges the Lev Shunov and Dickinson as bets. But once, so I guess we'll do the two-parter here. Any chance the Habs takes saliva at five. And what do you think the ceiling is on Celaya? I think if saliva's there, they have to consider him. I know there's a lot of talk about center, center, center,

and the need for a second center behind Nick Suzuki or in front of Nick Suzuki, whatever the case may be. And of course, the sort of depth with the four big young D that they have, either in the NHL in Caden Gulley's case or coming with Mayhew Reimbacher and Hudson. But I don't think that means that if Anton Selya, the player who many believe is the second or third best prospect in the draft, is available at fifth overall that you have to sort of ignore him in favor of those sort of weaker group of centers that we alluded to.

So as far as sealing, he's a pretty unique player. So it's hard to really pinpoint a ceiling. I think he's got an opportunity if things really come together to be a first-parent guy. Maybe he's not a number one. Maybe he's the number two. But the kind of player who can play at six foot seven can skate, can chip in on offense, can maybe help out on your second power play unit, can certainly penalty kill. If he develops a real meanness and physicality to his game, that could really elevate

the projection defensively. He still, we've talked about it before, but he led torpedo and hits this year. And yet you still talk to scouts who want to see him sort of take charge and impose himself out there more than he more than he did this year so there's that's not the scouts i talk to say for what it's worth just my yeah just the people i've talked to you when i did my slyev piece there's a few quotes in there from whether it's scout amateur scouts or directors for my slyov piece earlier in the year who said we want to see him sort of be more physical and step up and he could use a little bit more even more bite to his game kind of thing that wasn't

like october though right yeah that was november Yeah, I think that piece came out in November. Yeah, I mean, the upside is high. Like, we're talking about first pairing potential. And you can skate and the defensive ceiling is certainly there. He showed some offense, especially in the front half of this season, is comfortable with the puck, made some nice plays off the rush, jumped off the line here and there.

I still think there's a lot of growth there for him offensively. He tends to just put a lot of pucks through from the point. That's kind of his default. I don't think he actually sort of processes it or thinks it all that way. well. But certainly he'll put a lot of pucks on that and that kind of a thing. And it's it's the upside is is legit. Like the upside is exciting. When I was talking to our Montreal writer Arpin, he kind of said to me that he thinks like that organization's belief, I haven't watched all their press conferences and whatnot. He said the organization's belief is that they feel really good

with where their young defense are right now and the future of their defense. And it's why many think they are going to pick a four at five. And I look at the situation and I say, like, I get why they think that, but I don't think their young defense situation is so good that I would preclude taking a defenseman in the straff. I get they took David Reimbacker at five last year and a lot of Havs fans, one take a forward. And I get that, you know, Caden Gou is a really nice young player and Matheson had a good season.

And although he's a veteran. And, you know, they have, you know, Lane Hudson coming up who they really like a lot, and they have Logan Mayu, looks like a nice prospect, and Justin Barron's a nice little prospect. They have like really nice young NHL defense prospects coming. But other than Goatley, like they don't have guys who have done it in the NHL and done it at a high level to where you feel like, oh, this is going to be a 10-year guy who's going to help our team in a significant way. And I feel until you get that answer, you can't take anything off the table. Like even though you have Lane Hudson,

organization. You can't take, in my opinion, Zeev Boy and Mersaint Perrek off the table. It may not be the best decision to make, but I mean, Lane Hudson's played two NHL games. You can't, like, that can't influence your decisions, what to do with the fifth overall pick. So I just think it's an interesting situation for them. And I definitely would strongly consider Salaya if he was there at five. I think this guy has a chance to be a number one defenseman if he really hits. Interesting, big picture one here from Brett Sodorik. If guys were hired as the Columbus GM, what would be the first moves you would make to get this team to the next step? We'll start with Scott. I think you have to reset with some of the veterans

that they've acquired. It's a very, very complicated thing to do to go backwards when they've constantly been trying to push that team forward. But I don't think guys like Proverov and even Severson, who they signed to a huge ticket last year, those guys don't feel like they're in the right window for that team and where they're headed. They need to continue to invest in Ken Johnson, in Adam Van Tilly, in David Eurecheck, in Denton Matechuk. They need to build around that window and whatever that window looks like for those guys. So I think you've got to strongly consider taking another step back with some of those

veterans, whether that's, as I mentioned, a Proverrova, a Severson. Maybe that means that's a tricky move to make when he just signed a whatever it was, six or seven year contract. But they need to give those guys run. They've spent, I think last year, I think they messed around a little bit too much with Kent. And I know he didn't have a good camp there and they wanted to send a bit of a message to Kent. And I've talked to people from that organization about that decision.

And I understand why they made the decision to send him to the H.L and all of that. But they need guys like that. They need Kent Johnson to be a big part of that team. They need David Yercheck, who I know was disillusioned for parts of last season at his lack of opportunity to be a big part of that team. So I think it's time for them to put those guys, even if it comes at the expense of winning, put those guys in prominent roles and really see what you have with that young core. I think I can say it's about half the league, but they also need a goalie. Yeah.

Very steep, steep contrast there in length of answer. I like it. We'll move on to the next one from Yusuke. Corey, we'll go to you here. Is Nikita Kuturov the best Russian to ever play the game? And he added another ever. Not for me. No. I love Kucherov.

But, I mean, I don't know. Like, I know he has, he hasn't always, he's played behind 87 for his whole career, but I don't know. Even in the NHL, like, I fuck, Malkins. It's been, you know, I think a better player in his best years for me. Like, never mind, Ovechkin and in the league currently right now. And I think Kuturov's hockey sense is incredible. He is a dynamic player who is among the best forwards of his generation.

But, I mean, there's not to be, wait a start. talking about guys like Pavel Burry or anything like that. Like, no, not the best Russian ever. Fedorov, Datzuk. It's an interesting conversation. I mean, the two 30-point playoffs, I think, have kind of flown under the radar for a lot of people with Kutrov because he didn't win the Kahn Smyth in either. I believe he's the only person, the only player to ever put up 30 points and not win the

cons might win the Kahn Smyth in the playoffs and he did it twice. There's probably a case to be made. Vaselowski and Hedman should have finished second in voting in both of those scenarios. and we might view Kutrov a little bit differently if he'd want to Kahn-Smyth or two on top of all of the regular season stuff. Like he's been a killer in the playoffs for them and the 120, 130-point seasons and all of that.

It's at least, I think, an interesting debate. But Ovechkin, I mean, Ovechken, Federov, Dadsook, it's tough. Covalchuk. It would be up there for me. It is tough to overcome a guy who we think is going to be the all-time goals leader in the NHL when it's all said and done. That's a tough bar to clear.

Next one is from Gannon Barnes, Scott. He says, where would Easton Cowan go in a 2023 redraft? Do you think he can become a top six winger in the NHL? It's interesting. I was actually asked this question. So it's been top of mind. I was asked this question in a recent mailbag and sort of answered it in depth a little bit. And I just went back and did a quick browse of it for that mailbag a couple of weeks ago and kind of settled on late teens.

Certainly still have the top seven or eight guys from that draft class, be the top seven or eight guys from that draft class. you've probably got more of a debate to be had about Nate Danielsons and Dahlobor Dvorskis and Axel Sandian Pelica and Colby Barlow and Braden Yeager and some of the guys that went sort of in that second tier. I still think he's probably just on pedigree and reputation, even after obviously as good a season as you can have in the OHL, he's probably still viewed below those guys. I think those guys are still viewed as sort of more premium assets. But he's right there in the mix and is certainly left. or weep-frogged a number of flares who were drafted in front of him.

I mean, you look at Charlie Stramel was drafted there. Edward Chalais was drafted there. There's a number of flares that people, that folks have soured on. Now, Gabe Perrault was also drafted in the late 20s and probably would move up. So it gets tricky in that range, but aren't you taking an Easton Cowan over in Otto Stenberg or an Edward Schaulay or Charlie Stramel today? Absolutely. Easton Cowan had a star-like season in the OHL.

He was as dominant a player in the CHL this year across all three leagues as there was. He can play center. He can play the wing. He's going to be a penalty killer at the next level. He looks like he has power play upside at the next level now. He looks like he's going to sort of produce more points now, I think, at the NHL level than people maybe expected a year ago. So he's helped himself a lot.

But I don't think you're talking about a leap from the late 20s into the top 10 kind of thing, which I know Leafs fans are asking that question for that reason. But certainly, is he moving up from 29 to 19, probably? Yeah, I think more like early 20s, I think, like right around 20, I think would be for me. I think the competitiveness is exceptional. He's a good skater. You know, God has some offense. I think, again, just put up monster numbers in the OHL,

recognize he's in the playoffs. I do wonder a little bit when he actually gets to the NHL. plays against men if that offense is going to be there in a massive way. I see a top nine wing, maybe at times of the top six, like a chance. I think on a good team, he's probably like a third line winger.

I think maybe on a more of an average team, he could be a second line winger, but that's kind of what my projection would be right now, like a really hard to play against, you know, coach's favorite type of type of middle six wing. All right. Next one,

we're going to go rapid fire with these next few because we're running up on time. a little bit here. But the gargoyle wants to know, Scott, who are some names that are very high in the public sphere that seem lower on NHL Scouts list? He suggests Justin Poirier. Yeah, I mean, Poirier is a tricky one.

You score almost 70 goals and 100 plus points combined between the regular season and the playoffs. He led the queue in regular season goals and led the queue in playoff goals with 18 and 17 games. Guys like that, the smaller guys that score always tend to get higher grades in the public sphere. I think you could probably say the same about a number of other players, whether it's Max Swanson in the USHL and what he did scoring, I think, 76, 77 points this year, that kind of a thing. Those guys always get favorable sort of views from the public sphere,

I think in part because now there's public analytics and people like Byron Bader and Will's couch who are doing tracking that always looks favorably on the point producers. I don't know whether there's not really a spicy debate about players at the top of this group like there was a year ago, though. Last year, there were real conversations being had about some of the, I mean, other than Cole Eiserman, obviously, in this draft. Last year, there were a lot of conversations had about Zach Benson and some of those sort of more productive players that didn't maybe fit the profile in years past. We've had guys like Jordan Dume, last year, Andrew Crystal was another one that sort of people kicked around a lot in terms of where he fits. There isn't,

I mean, Tarrick Parasak had 100 plus points this year and isn't going to be. a front half of the first round pick, which is typical of a player who produces that much. So maybe Parasak's an interesting case study that way. But I also don't, I have got to be honest, I don't pay attention to the public lists as much as I think our readers do. So it's tricky. But I think those guys are always, the complicated ones are the guys who produce that get a lot of shine and typically don't always go as high as people expect them to. And I think in this draft, there's just not a lot of guys like that other than maybe

Eisenman and Iserman and Parasak. I think we need to educate Scott on what Rapid Fire means. But it turns up the two names that I would nominate. I think I see where like a lot of lists have Alphonse Frey, the defenseman from Vacchio, way too high for me. OckySense was a concern. He can move and he's got some offense, but not a first rounder, not even close for me, quite frankly.

I'd be surprised if he was a first rounder on draft day. I also would be quite, I see where Andrew Bash is in a lot of lists. I'd be a little surprised if he was a first round pick too. Very talented forward, put up big numbers in the WHL, but 511 wing. I don't think the competitiveness is like off the charts good, a little perimeter at times. I think that profile is going to worry teams, at least in the first round. Those are two that will come to mind right away. Corey, we'll go right back to you with this one, JJ Gap.

Are there any concerns about the style of Ivan Demadov's game? He cuts inside off and an NHL teams will be looking to punish him if he does this. Is there any projectability concern for playoff style hockey there? Yeah, that's a funny, interesting question because I could think of like, I've seen that argument both sides for guys who play that way, who are like the small players who love to play on the inside. Like, you know, when small guys play on the outside, people get mad at like, why don't they attack the inside?

That game's not projectable. That's not where you score in the NHL. And then I remember I would see, remember when like Nick Robbins. Robertson was coming up. Guys, I'm talking to scouts and they'd be saying he cuts to the inside too much. You know, he's reckless. He's too small. He's going to get hurt.

And, I mean, he did get hurt a lot. That's a whole other issue. But I, so it's kind of, you know, interesting when you talk about that. I like that he cuts to the inside. I think it is projectable. I think, like, for me, it's, you know, kind of a similar to Robertson where it's like a little bit of a wonky skating style. He does, you know, like to do, like, those, you know, the toe to toe stuff.

stuff. When he cuts inside a lot, you know, you don't see a ton of NHL players do that, but he's bigger than Robertson was, and he plays really hard. And I'm not worried about that in terms of, I think he's going to be a really good NHL player. So it's not really that. I do think with Demadov, the question is just going to be, given I don't think he's an elite skater and he's 5-11, is the offense going to be like really good, or is it special? Are we talking, you know, I think Max and I were talking about this off camera. Are we talking about Lucas Raymond or are we talking about, you know, Carrelle Caperself?

I think that's where the debate lines are really going to be for Demadoff. Worth noting that those guys with hands like that tend to just keep making players miss, even high-end NHL defensemen, even up levels. I know it was the MHL and all that, but Will Smith, people said the same thing about Will Smith entering college this year and he had 71 points at Boston College. Like those guys with hands of that level, and their ability to get to the inside,

I think they'll continue to make guys miss even the best players in the world. All right, we got to wrap with this one here because we're running up against time, but I did love this question from Kyle Hamaker. What was the greatest individual game performance that you've ever seen from a draft eligible player? We'll start with Corey.

I just mentioned the name. The one that would come to mind for me was the gold medal game in Orchalzvik, where Lucas Raymond as a 16-year-old, scored a hat trick, including the Golden Gras. goal. And one of those three goals was one of the most spectacular highlight real goals I've

ever seen in my life in person. The moment doing it in front of the home crowd with the building rocking, it was just one of the biggest, absolutely what a gamer moment I can remember from a player. But Darin, Halifax against Slovakia was insanity as well. Corey, were you there with me that the night Cole Cawfield and Jack Hughes went crazy at the program and both set the records. They had to cut the puck in half. That was against Green Bay.

Yeah, I was there. Yeah, so it doesn't have the stakes of the two you guys mentioned. But I think Coughfield had six or seven goals on that game. I think that's number one for me. The stakes of that one was really high. One of my favorite moments was I think the World Championships were Grandland, did the Michigan. And he was a really young player at the time. And it was a metal round game, tight game.

And he pulled that off. That was what of like the craziest, like just moments. I remember from a young player. I think he was a teenager when he did that. So just, for me, the stakes always matter when you talk about stuff like this. Pod Colson's Holinka, where he went end-to-end three or four times in the same tournament, comes to mind for me as well. Awesome.

Great stuff, guys. Thanks for listening to this episode of the Athletic Hockey Show Prospect Series. You can obviously catch more of Scott and Corey's work on the athletic, and we'll talk to you soon. Thank you.