The Athletic Hockey Show - NHL Draft 2025: a way-too-early outlook, U18 and U20 Five Nations tournaments notebook, listener questions, and more

Episode Date: November 17, 2023

On this week’s Prospect Series episode of The Athletic Hockey Show, Max and Corey take a way-too-early look at the 2025 NHL Draft’s top prospects, discuss the play of guys like James Hagens and Cole Eiserman and other prospects at recent U18 and U20 Five Nations tournaments in Finland and Czechia respectively, and the guys close things out with a bunch of listener questions in the mailbag.Subscribe to The Athletic Hockey Show on YouTube: http://youtube.com/@theathletichockeyshow Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the Athletic Hockey Show Prospect Series. Hey, everybody. Max Boltman here alongside Corey Prondman for another episode of the Athletic Hockey Show Prospect Series. Got a fun show today on tap. We're going to talk about the 2025 NHL draft. We're going to talk about the U-18 and U25 nations tournaments, which includes, obviously, some big names for the 2024 NHL draft. And we got some mailbag questions to get to.

It's been a while since our last mailbag. So it was good to hear from everybody, and we'll get to answering your questions here soon. Before we get to all that, I did want to ask a quick favor. If you're enjoying the show, please leave us a five-star rating and a review. We would greatly appreciate it. It helps us a ton. So just my little humble plea before we dive into things here today. Corey, how you doing?

I'm doing well. How's Sweden? Sweden's great. Yeah, this is an international episode of the Prospect Series today. I'm in Stockholm for the Global Series. First time I've come to Sweden that I haven't been here specifically, two-see prospects. So that's been a little bit of a difference. I was going to say, you're not going at like J20 games right now? Like you're doing the prospect series bad right now. I know. I know it.

And yeah, I actually had hoped when I first, you know, thought this might be a possibility that there would be some SHL games I could go see. Maybe Sandine Pelica would be somewhere close enough to Stockholm. But a couple issues. One, they were on a week off up until today, Thursday, when the games are starting. And number two, your garden is, which is Stockholm's team. is not in the SHL right now. They were relegated recently. So the stars did not align for me here, although I know Joe Smith did go the extra mile

and went to Carlstad. So maybe I just got to get on his level. Could be mistaken. I don't even think they're doing that great in the Al-Svenskine right now, to be quite honest, but that's a whole other issue. And actually, it's actually quite an eventful last few days for Max,

who is in Sweden right now, and he basically got married, and right after the wedding party was over, hopped on a plane to Sweden. Yeah, it was a chaotic weekend. I won't lie about that. You can probably hear my voice a little bit, still recovering from all that adrenaline. But it was such a blast.

We had an unbelievable time. So it was great. And right away, we jump on a plane and get back to work. So we'll take a honeymoon at some point. But it's got to wait for the hockey schedule to align, right? Honeymoon in Europe can work. I'm not sure about in like November in Sweden. It's cold.

It's cold for sure. But it works. But it's not up to Max. and I'm sure all of our listeners are very happy for you and for Allison. And, uh, and, uh, I mean, Max is the one getting the, uh, the most out of that combination anyways. No doubt. No doubt about that.

Uh, all right. Let's dive in here today, Corey. We got some good stuff here. Uh, the 2025 draft. I know some people are going to say 2025. It's not a real year. But it is actually coming closer than, uh, we think it is. And I want to start where we always can start with the 2025 or two year out drafts.

because we already know who the U.S. national team program is for that year, fortunately. So we can start with the Americans. Yeah, and the Americans, I just saw with the recent Under-17 challenge. I did an article on the 2025 draft, focusing on the top 07s that I saw at the U-17 challenge and the late 06s that I've seen along the way. U.S. finished silver at that tournament. And it was a really good gold medal game with Canada White, going right down to the very end there at that game.

And that U.S. team, for what I could see, who actually haven't been a great start in the U.S.HL play, mind you. But I thought it looked very good at the tournament, led the tournament in scoring. They are a very deep group of players. That's why you see a lot of names kind of splash throughout the article. They have a group that can roll lines, role defensemen. I didn't see a whole lot of names.

liabilities on that team. But I don't think this U.S. group has like the elite player. There's no James Hagan's in this group. There's no Logan Cooley. There's no Jack Hughes or somebody along those lines that I can identify as like, hey, you have a chance to be a 1-1, a 1-2, a 1-3 in your respective draft year. But I saw a lot of players who have a lot of NHL traits. Cole McKinney is a very good two-way player. has a, you know, a lot of projectible traits to be an NHL centerman.

They have some really good defensemen. Charlie Tretchenway was one of the leading scores in the tournament as a defenseman. Good skaters, super smart. Drew Schock looked like a very dynamic, albeit small defenseman, Conrad Fondrick and Colin Potter looked like very dynamic, albeit again, smaller players. You'll see how this group develops over the coming years. years, but it looked like a deep, talented, but again, lacking the high, high end talent.

And it's always interesting to see how that develops here, but it is, you know, the case. Usually, I think it's a little easier to tell with the Americans who's going to pop because they concentrate them with the national team development program. We're not so much waiting for guys across Canada and the different leagues to really show through. You start to kind of see it level out a little bit earlier. You said there's no coolly. That's true.

There is his, I believe, though, his cousin, right? LJ Mooney is on that U-17 team. Really an interesting prospect because he's talented, he is 5'6. Yeah, and that's the issue. I saw Mooney play live a few years ago. It was some sort of bantam tournament or something along there,

and he looked really good. Then, you know, you saw the skating, the skill, it popped. You're like, okay, and this is where it's the danger comes when scouting kids who are that young. It's like, okay, well, you know, he's probably going to grow a couple inches, and then we'll see how his game looks when he does that in a few years,

and then a few years pass, and he doesn't grow a couple of inches. He's pretty much the same size. I saw him at three years ago, and, you know, he doesn't, he looks like a mediocre NHL prospect right now because of the size, super dynamic junior player.

And we're probably going to get to this conversation when we get to Adam Binak on the check team, but it's just really hard to make the NHL a 5 foot six unless you're special. Yeah, absolutely. You mentioned Treadaway. I mean, it does seem like between the two classes that are at the NCDP right now, the defense has been kind of a real strength of that group, which is funny.

It's a little different than what we're going to talk about when we talk about the World Juniors a little bit, you know, in a week or two, I'm sure. Yeah, because, yeah, this NTDP group right now, though the not the ones for 2025, the 06s, they got, basically, that was kind of the conversation coming out of the recent U-18 Five Nations. It's like, man, James Higgins is really good, and Cole Eisenman can score, but it's a, massive fall off there. And then with this group, there's still good forwards, but it's, yeah, I would say that there isn't an elite forward. And if there's going to be an elite player on that U.S. group, I'm guessing it'll come

from one of the blue liners. Yeah. It does tend to work in cycles, though. And then we find that year after year. And on that note, is it fair to say that we may be in for by the time we get to the 2025 draft, a QMJHL Renaissance, potentially? Possibly. And I'm not saying these guys are all going to be super high picks,

but I think on Canada, why the team that won, the U.S.S. team challenge, Caleb Denauea and Emil Gite both played big roles. They were the number one, number two picked respectively in their QMJHL drafts. Both played, you know, a lot of minutes, scored a lot. Gite, I think, led the tournament in goals. His skating is an issue while he didn't make that top 20 list I did. But he's a guy to know, obviously, because of his skill and scoring ability. Danoia, on the other hand, has the skating, the size, the skill, playing a big role in a top QMJL team right now in Monkden.

So he's really intriguing. Not among the 07s, he's the late 06, but Gabriel O'Degla has a chance to be the first goal he picked next year. It's been kind of inconsistent since he's in his junior play, but he's a talented goalie. And we'll see how these players progress over the coming year. But it looks like a better year for the queue because we're not usually talking about two to three. Q players a year ahead. You know, you had to squint the last couple of years at the queue to find NHL prospects. So it might be a better year for them next year.

How about for Team Sweden? Team Sweden, I thought, was very good. This is not a great Swedish age group, the 06s. The 07s look a lot better. Anton Frundel, Jacob is Wozniak or point-per-game guys in the J-20s right now. Wouldn't surprise me if Frundell, who, you know, checks on the boxes. he's got, you know, good skating, really good skill in hockey sense, competes well enough, average size.

Would not surprise me if he plays pro games this year's for Girgaarden in the Ausfanskin. You know, he's been very promising. The guy who's actually, I think, even the most promising suite, is actually playing in the United States. That's Sasha Bumudian playing in Youngstown, nearly a point per game of the U.S.HL. Great skater, moves the puck well. You know, I think, you know, all the big schools are chasing him right now. And between those guys, and there's a couple other good suede on that team, too, eligible either in 25 or in 26. Looks like a much better age group for next season.

You teased a bit earlier, Adam Beenak from the Czech Republic, and he's going to be an interesting one for the same reasons, I think, probably a little higher end ability here that we're talking about than when we talked about LJ. Mooney here. But it is a similar frame. I mean, we're talking about a 5'7 centerman right now. usually that means that they'll be a five foot seven winger as they continue to progress. I didn't put Beaneck on my first 25 list. He was the guy I thought about the most in that process because I saw him at the Holinka with the checks in the summer and that check team nearly beat Canada the gold medal game.

And they were, you know, had a very impressive tournament. And Vinnak was very good in that tournament, very dynamic with his skating and skill his playmaking, played a big role on that team, and you saw him there, and you were like, wow, this guy's a really talented player. Sure, he's small, but he looks like, you know, he has the traits to be the next special small guy. And then I see with the U-17 challenge, and it was kind of the opposite. It was, yeah, you skate well, and you've got some aesthetic skill, but you're not really jumping out at me at all here. You, you know, just look like a nice, you know, a second, third round picks.

And so it was like, which one of those two guys that I saw was real? Was it the guy I saw at the Hulinker or the one I saw at the 17 challenge? And I'm guessing it's somewhere in the middle, but I just didn't, again, to be a top 20 pick. And that's, I only ranked about 20 players in that article. You have to be special at that size. And I did not see enough yet to say that he rises to that level. But he very well could be. Like I said, I'll see him again probably in February.

in April live and I'll kind of, you know, by the next time I'm doing my next 25 list in the summer, I'll have a better assessment, I think, of where Binoc stands. Yeah. All right. Speaking of that list, I think one of the things that they caught my eye looking at it right away is for a while now. You know, I think James Hagan's always been right in that mix, and he's your number one player, no surprise. But right there with him that we've expected to talk about at the top of the 2025 draft is Michael

Mice. And he is in your top ten. I think he's at number six. but that's not quite in the territory that maybe we've discussed him in the past. He is off to a little quieter statistical start to this season than in his exceptional status year last year. Where are you at on Misa? What are you seeing and what are you not seeing right now?

Yeah, he's a tough one. Obviously, just because of the hype machine, I think you want to be just careful to not always to be sure you're assessing what you see and not just based on hype. And Mesa obviously, very good exceptional status season. And it is a 15-year-old in the OHL, put up a ton of points, was very good at these scored the U-17 challenge too, where I saw him a bunch there. I just saw him live a couple of days ago, actually. And, you know, I saw him at the Holy Kut, too.

So, I mean, I feel like I'm fairly familiar with this player. And with Mesa, I see talent. Like, he obviously is a very talented player. You know, I'm an exceptional status player to score as he has so far in the OHA without having legit skill in playmaking ability. He's a very good skater, too. I just, like, when I've watched him over the last year, year and a half, I don't see like the special traits. Like I would, if someone told me he deserves

to be in that one, two conversation, I would ask for like us, you know, six oh,ish barely player, you know, what are the special traits he has that project him to the NHL? And people will say, oh, he's smart and he's detailed and he works hard and yada yada. And I'd be like, well, this sounds a lot like a conversation we had two years ago. Basically. And it's like, I need to see a little bit more out of Mesa. Whereas, yeah, I look at, say, his OHL counterpart, Porter Martone in the OHL, at least he's six three and he skaked well, and he's got a ton of skill. You're like, okay, I see that projecting out a little bit better.

He's also off to a similar start as Mesa statistically. I'd argue even a little bit better so far this season because MISA has been winning more games and he's been playing a big part in that. So I got a lot of pushback from that, not among NHL scouts, really, mostly more among the readers about Mesa being at 6. But honestly, I think I was nice to him because the assessments I've gotten from some scouts who've seen him this year have not been as kind. Well, it's one of the kind of burdens, I think, of the exceptional status dynamic here is that to anyone else, like if you're ranking the top 10 of your draft class, two years out, like it's, it's exceptional praise, you know, but we set these kids up with the exceptional status. And I don't necessarily disagree that it should exist. I think a lot of people

can benefit from it. But it does set this expectation that you're going to be McDavid-ish, right? And sometimes you're just going to be Shane Wright-ish. And I don't know that it did Shane Wright all that greatest service, you know, in the big picture when you think about it. Joe Valeno's another one I think about it too in that regard. And yeah, like, I think it definitely messed with, you know, with expectations with him significantly. Yeah. I don't know what this solution to it is. I guess I'm not really trying to just on a whim advocate to shake up this entire system.

But I do think, go ahead. Yeah, I'm not sitting here saying Mesa isn't an excellent hockey player. And that's like where I think these things could get lost. I think when I think just people have heard his name now for a year and a half and they expect him to be a superstar. And he still might well be. I haven't right as a sixth overall prospect in his age group. Like he,

you know, he could be two. He could be three this time next year. If he really, if his game picks up, you know, it's very realistic. It's just not what I've seen so far this season.

No, my point is just that like, you know, even with the exceptional status thing, it's not just like they're picking the best player in an age group. Sometimes it can work out that way. But my understanding is a big part of the process

is about just like your maturity, your ability to handle. the junior lifestyle and all that. I almost wonder if it might be a better situation, if they would just kind of open it up and say, hey, if you can make this team and if you seem like you can pass these, you know, maturity bars,

then you can do it. We don't need to winnow it down. So there's only, I don't know, I don't know what it is at now, seven or eight guys. And half of them are like the best players in the NHL. And half of them are players who, I think get judged unfairly critically because of it.

Would it be better maybe? I think what might be better is just to make the bar a little bit higher. is so that it has to be McDavid, it has to be Tavares, it has to be badarred, has to be like this talent that just blows you away, that there's no debate

that he's an impact player right away. And Misa was, frankly, impact, like that he scored. That's what I mean. So it's tough, but like, I'd rather put that bar too high than put it too low

and, you know, like have guys like poor, like Sean Day, go what he went through. and stuff like that. Well, I think to me, though, what I'm saying is you just eliminate the distinction. You eliminate exceptional status as a distinction. And you just say, hey, 15-year-olds can play in the OHL if they can, you know, make this team, right?

And if they seem to their coaches and their GMs, like, they're ready, then they can make the team. And you eliminate this tag that we put on guys is kind of what I'm saying from it. But I get your point, too. I just think it's so hard to figure out. And it has been pretty rare. It's like one guy a year. I just think it's so hard to know who's McDavid that far out. And that is ultimately, whether they intended or not, that is what these guys are being tagged with when they get this exceptional status label.

I tend to agree with you, although I watched a little bit of McDavid at that age. Fair enough. He looked a little obvious. No, there was no doubt about Bedard either. I don't know. Yeah, but like, no, I mean, like, you didn't know what he's going to do in the NHL, but you watched McDavid like for a couple of clips at that age. You're like, okay, you know, something different about this guy. But I get what you're saying.

On that note, I guess, we're going to do another kid of disservice here because I'm going to pivot you and talk to you about the 2026 draft because there is one more name here that I think we want to talk about. It does just so happen to be Connor Bedard's cousin, Gavin McKenna, and he's off to a really nice start here. Yeah, really nice start. I didn't think his U-17s were as good as I saw him in the WHL. Like he had some good games, some good moments, and he had some, you know, off games. his team wasn't great around him. But McKenna, who is several drafts away, he's a late birth date at this level.

So I think that's, he's a 26 eligible, not a 25 eligible. And, you know, he's not the biggest guy. He thinks he's around 5 foot 11. He's a good skater. He's not an elite skater. But for what I've seen of him in the WHL and watching the U17 Challenge,

he does have some of those special traits you're looking for in a high pick. And the kind of guys should talk. talking about it, like he could be, you know, a star potentially one day. Like his skill, his hockey sense, and it jumps off the page at you. Like he makes some really creative plays. He sees the ice at a very unique level, very dangerous around the puck. And when you look at him, watching a medicine hat right now, I mean, he, like, you know,

I'm watching those games to watch the draft eligible is there. Like, Kevin Lindstrom could be a really high pick this year. Andrew Bashak could be, could be a reasonably, you know, high pick this year. and a medicine hat off to a really hot start. And when you go on to watch those guys, McKenna catches your eye. It's hard. Like, he has that kind of skill.

We'll see how his game develops over the coming years. But he looks like a guy with a chance to be a really, really good pro one day. Yeah. All right. We're going to take a quick break right there. We're going to come back. We're going to talk about the U-18 and U-25 Nation sit-night. All right.

We are back, Corey. And there was one name about the 2025 draft class. so we didn't really get to in that segment, and it may be very well the first pick in the 2025 draft. But I think it fits here because we're going to talk about the U-18 and the U-25 Nations tournaments. And of course, we talk about the United States U-18 team, James Hagen's, who is the favorite to kind of be that top pick in 2025 right now, at least in my opinion. And I know in yours because it's on your list. You got to start with James Hagen's. Yep.

He led the U18 to Five Nations in scoring. It looked very impactful throughout the couple of games USA played. And, you know, with his skating, his skill, he was working hard. You know, killing penalties even at times. Just, you know, really good all around centermen. The skating is very dynamic. We got one question for the mailback that I didn't put in there. Somebody asked me whether, you know, the Hagan said Jack Hughes comparisons

are fair. And I'm not sure I would go all the way there yet I say as much in the article. But I think the skating, there's some rhymes there with just how well those feet and work and how good his edges are. Whether he has Hughes's pure skill in hockey sets, I think he needs to prove that a little bit more over the coming two years. It's not unreasonable to suggest it though. I mean, this guy is dynamic. He's an exceptional playmaker. And he looks like he's got a chance to be a really impactful NHL Center. How do you kind of, when I've seen him, to me, my natural comparison is Logan Cooley, and I thought it was kind of funny to see him a little bit in the Cooley role on his kind of

typical line with GoChi and Stugger Root at the World Junior Camps. But there is kind of that continuum of USA centers, and we've seen enough of them not too dissimilar from that mold over the years. Where do you kind of have him at this stage in his career, at least? He would be closer to Hughes than he would be to Cooley at the same point. Yeah, like he is. Kuli was really, really good. But there was, like when he was coming up,

he had to, you know, the scoring kind of developed as time went along and to him becoming what he was. Hagen's from the get-go here has been a dynamic, impactful scoring centerman. And so I think that's a distinction there. Again, not saying he is huge, but if you had to put him on that continuum, like whereas he's closer to,

I would say he's closer to Hughes than he is to Cooley and definitely ahead of like a Clayton Keller at the same age. Yeah, absolutely. That's very exciting stuff. Can't really talk about Higgins without talking about his typical running mate,

which is Cole Iserman. Iserman will be in the 2024 draft and we've heard him discussed as high as really at some points, the top two or three. How's that tracking so far as we get early into the season here? What's been interesting is

after using them on the same, line for a large portion of their use 17th season, USA has not used them on the same line at all this season. They play together on the power play. Hagen's on the left flank, Isamond on the right flank, but they haven't really been playing together that much. So that's been interesting to follow. In terms of Eisenman's play at the tournament, the U18 Five Nations, yeah, he's been off to

a fantastic start. You can just, you know, look at his stats. He's scoring a ton of goals, historic start to this. season in terms of the pace of the goals he's scoring right now. At the tournament, though, with a lot of NHLIs on him, and it was, frankly, of not Eiserman's best week. He actually still scored a lot. I think he had like the three goals and six points in four games, so like that.

So it looks like fine numbers, but that was, I think, fifth among all USA players in scoring, I think tied for seven to the tournament in scoring, which for any other player would be a good week for a guy who you think is supposed to be a, you know, an elite score and a second overall pick, third overall pick wasn't a great tournament. He did not look good. He wasn't making many plays. He was forcing a lot of shots. The scouts who were there were pretty critical of his play. And, you know, the way I would kind of phrase it out with Isamon is I would not like write it in stone that he's going to be a top three pick in this draft, like, or a top five pick. You know, you probably put it in pencil.

Like, he's a great, great player, really talented, great history of scoring. But there are some concerns in his game that are shared among NHL personnel. And, you know, I would not definitively say he's going ahead of Celaya. I would not definitively say he's going ahead of Shunov or Demadov. Or, you know, so you can probably make one or two other players in that argument. So I think he's got to play. better in the other international terms, the one in February and April, to establish himself in that area.

Yeah. We kind of teased in the last segment talking about the defense crop that's at both levels of the U.S. national team program right now. But another name that is in your top five for the 2025 draft is Logan Hensler. And he kind of headlines what's a really strong group for this team. You think about E.J. Emory, Will, Schahan, obviously, Quinn Hudson.

It's quite the group that they have. have there right now. Cole Hudson, Quinn Hudson, his oldest brother. Oh, I'm sorry, sorry. It's okay. There's just so many Hudson's.

I want there to be more and more Hudson's. That's fine. Yeah, and Hansler's a very talented player. We talked about this podcast, 4-6-2, good skater, really good puck mover. It's interesting that the guys

I like most for next year's draft, the 25 draft, they seem to all be late birthdays. I think the top four players I had ranked, which were Hagen's Martone, Roger McQueen from Brandon, and Hensler, I think we're all late birthday, so it's kind of interesting coincidence in that regard.

But yeah, he's a good player. I thought Hudson had a good week there at the 18s. He had a slow start to the season, but I thought he played really good lately. The game of sob against Cornell, I thought he was really good, and then at that term I thought he was good. Skaghan and Emory are still guys I had to get comfortable with

because I don't know what they're going to be. be in the NHL. They're both big. They both skate well. Skahan's got some meanness in him. He was better at this tournament than Emory was. I think there are questions for me and shared by NHL people about whether there's any offense in either of their games. And, you know, I think we started the season, like saying, like, all these are really promising pro prospects.

Could they even make the U.S. World Junior team? I would say no. Like Skahan and Emory are not on the U.S. World Junior team. I'm not even sure Hansler. I know we kind of talked about that. I don't know how good he was at N.

DSHL Fall Classic, he's not been good enough, I think, to rise to that level, to be on the World Junior team. Even though they're all, you know, very nice pro-prospects, I think the World Junior team will come from, the only draft eligible defenseman that I think will be on the world junior team is Zev Boyam, who's been actually outstanding this year at Denver. It's made for a very good college crop among draft eligibles with him and left shoot off and, of course, A Macklin Celebrating. All right.

Moving to kind of the rest of these tournaments here, I want to talk about the USA typically dominates this tournament. And it's a natural fact. They play together all year. It's why they're always the favorite at the U-A-Team World Championships. Obviously, they're still good there. But they did lose a game, did they not? They did. They were up, I think, 5-0 or 6-1 at some point to Sweden.

And they choked it away, more or less. It was really bad goaltending on the part of Parsons. for U.S., by the Swedish age group, which has not looked great in international tournaments historically, with a huge victory, you know, several, you know, players in this team who you were like, I don't know where these guys going to fit. You're seeing some guys who have some second round potential now, maybe even some late first potential on this age group. So it's nice to see some developing talent from the Swedes, whether it is Leo Shaldeen Walanis,

whether it's Alphonse Frey, whether it's Lucas Pedersen, they've got some guys that are developing well. How about a couple of the bigger names that we've come around to in this age group, Constellaneus, Adam Yurechek. They played at this event, I believe, yes? They played at the 20s. And they were good. You know, like Heleneas played a big role.

Finless team got kind of banged up and he had to basically be a guy they leaned on and he was a top performer for them. And he ever checked two. I don't think he stood out, but he's six three and he skates well, and he was able to move the puck well enough. And he looks like a guy who's going to, both of those guys, I think, are going to play big roles on their World Junior teams this winter. How about Team Sweden for the U-20s? I think this was kind of a preview team, really, of what they will bring, it seems, to the World Gen. You get guys like Sandine Pelican there, even the high picks that are skating with the 20s at this event.

Yeah, there's a couple of injuries. and, you know, to the team like Lius Pedersen and Lius Salaminson on the blue line, that probably will be there when the real team forms, but this looked like their World Junior team, the one they brought to the 20s. You know, like you had guys like Noah Ocelain and Lekra Makki

who were scoring a lot. I presume when Liam Ogren gets healthy, he'll be on their wing. He wasn't at this tournament, but that's a presumption I think it's fair to make. You know, they were scoring. Then you had guys like Axel Santin Pelka, like you said, he was showing some offense. He

led their team in minutes. Looks like he's going to play a big role on the world junior team. I thought David Edstrom, Philip Bstad, you know, big sediments who can skate. They played a lot of minutes. Edstrom, I think,

led their team a nice time. It looked like a really nice two-way player, even though the offense wasn't really there for him in the tournament. I think they've got some tough decisions to make, particularly on their blue line. Like that, we got excellent and Pellica.

Matias Havlet, which is the coach's nephew, and obviously, he's a very good player and accomplished with his age group. I think both of them are for sure on the team. You have a lot of guys who won gold with this team and played well doing so. You have Elias Pedersen who I mentioned in Salaminson. You have Calli O'Dalias, the Islander's pick, who played well or well enough at this tournament to be in consideration. And then you have a guy like Anton Johansson, who wasn't always a top prospect, mid-round pick by Detroit a few years ago.

But he's played really well. He's big. He skates well. He's shown he can make a good first pass. Scouts were kind of raving about him coming out of this tournament. So I think they've got some tough decisions to make on this blue line. And don't forget, of course, Tom Blander, 11th overall picked by Vancouver, who I think will be firmly in that discussion.

You got Theo Lindstein, the first round pick by the Blues. So I think they're going to have to leave some good defensemen at home. I mean, this team looks like it's going to be quite strong. It's actually shaping up to be a few really strong world junior teams this year between the U.S. team, obviously the defense question, but such a strong forward group. Canada, always so good, but especially, we'll see who they're able to bring, which is I guess kind of always the question.

But Sweden's right in that mix. Like, they're going to challenge for a gold medal. I agree. Yeah, they are definitely a medal contender. I think the question with them relative to U.S. and Canada is who's the elite player on your team, like who can, who's going to hit the All-Star ballot on this team? Who can, like, you know, who can you lean on and play 23 minutes in a tough game and they'll tilt the ice?

I'm not sure I see that player yet, but they have a very, deep team of really good players. Yeah. And Finland has had this recipe, though, right? Like, you get these, like, big centers and this deep, you know, defense core. Like, we've seen this from less talented teams. And I know if this is kind of a Finland thing, they show up to tournaments and they break shit. But I could see Sweden being a higher talent version of that, right? Right.

I think, again, they have a lot of talent. All they need to do is win the goalie battle in the game against Canada or USA. That's all they really need to do. That's kind of what the Czech model was last year. They didn't have a more talented team than Canada did last year. But they got some good goaltending and it carried them right to within an inch of a gold medal. Yeah, absolutely. All right.

Let's take another break right there and we will come back and get to our first mailbag in a while. It'll be good to dive back in there. All right, Corey. Let's get to this mailbag here. We got some good ones so far. And this is obviously one that I think this transcends the prospect show, really. Dr. Allo wants to know your thoughts on Yerislovsky and kind of the early career difficulties he's had. We've talked at length about, you know, kind of the slower starts that certain number one

overall picks have had over the last five years or so. Do you chalk that up more to that and no worries or is there something deeper in play? And I actually think the last few games, he's actually looked a lot better. Like the points aren't coming yet, but he's being, he's creating offense and at least showing a little bit more positive signs. but it's been a slow start to the season and to his career. There's no doubt about that. I think you could have some real, you know, hard conversations about whether Montreal

should have actually put him in the NHL to start. I think even when we talked about this last year, I wasn't completely sold. He was NHL ready. Even though I love the player and I think he's going to have a promising NHL career, I think you can definitely make the argument he was rushed. Didn't have a, you know, didn't light it up even in Europe with his club team, but he was playing full-time in the NHL right away. it begs some questions on that.

But I still think, you know, with all the tools he has, I still think he's going to be a very good player. And I think I would be patient with these kind of players and not quick to rush to judgment on whether other guys, we hate to use the word bust or disappointment, because he's just so young. And it wasn't a good draft class. We've had this conversation before about, you know,

there wasn't a consensus one. It was kind of like a couple of guys you could pick from. He wasn't what you think of what a real legit number one overall is. So I don't know if it's fair to hold him to that expectation. But even if he was a legit number one, you have guys who have started slow. Nico Hesier wasn't always great to start his career. Jack Hughes wasn't always great to start his career. Alexi Lefranier, who all of a sudden is kind of putting up some goals and some points with the Rangers

and helping them win games, definitely wasn't always great to start his career. Slavkovsky, you could argue, had the worst start of those four. And I'm not saying he will reach the level of Heeshire Hughes, definitely. But he's a teenager. Like, it's like so many guys from that draft are not even in the NHL yet. I'm not talking about the draft of all. I'm talking about the super high picks. Like, I can't look at that draft.

And, yeah, Kulis having a really promising start to his career. There's no doubt about that. Korski's looked very good in the NHL. with Chicago. But I can't look at five guys other than Slavkovsky in that draft and be like, yeah, he's definitely going to be better than Slavkovsky. And I don't know if anybody could reasonably make that argument. Well, we also just see the power style winger takes maybe the longest to really hit their stride

in the NHL. And that's in normal circumstances, right? So to me, I'm not worried about it with Slavkovsky yet. I think, you know, people should probably adjust what they're. overall, this isn't just specific to it Slavkovsky, expectations of a top five pick are. I think they want every single one of those guys to be like a 90-point star. But I think it's totally possible that your Svkovsky is a 60-plus point power winger, and you're, you'll take that all day, even at number one, right?

Well, we had that conversation about Lefreniere for a long time when it didn't come right away. And I've kind of always maintained with Alexi, like, he's a really good player. And it may not come right away. and yeah, you're concerned with the skating and maybe the offense isn't as elite as you were hoping for but I've always continued to rate him

pretty highly in terms of my projections when I do my list of young players in the NHL and just say well he might just be a first line wing he might not be a star but you might be a 50 the 60 point winger which again is maybe not what you were hoping for

where you picked him at number one but that player still goes top 10 top seven top five sometimes like you know like that's still an extremely valuable player and one that is not easy to find in the draft, even if it is a winger. Yeah. I'm not technically sure if I can read this next one on air, but I'm just going to do it, and I apologize if I'm not supposed to.

How toaster bath season is it for us devil fans? Stephen O'Keefe wants to know. It's a very obviously harsh way of phrasing it, but I guess what he's asking is how worried should devil fans be right now? it's not been the start. I think a lot of people expected, a lot of myself included, expecting them to kind of challenge for the president's trophies. It's been a 500 start effectively, 7, 6 and 1. There's 6th in the Metro, but it is still so early. And the underlying numbers, I guess, still do tell a more favorable story. Where are you at on this one?

What I think has been really interesting to me this season is seeing how many teams have come into this year as, you know, playoff contenders, maybe in Stanley Cup contenders, and have gotten just abhorrent goal tending to start the year. I think it was, I think, you know, there's always been like a long time train of thought when it comes to goalies that you could find a goalie. They're replaceable.

There's a bunch of good goleys you can find. It's only but the elite ones. And as I look around the NHL, I'm not so convinced that's the case anymore. Like, I'm not sure it's that easy to find a decent goalie, a guy that you can play for 40 to 50 games and feel confident about. Because I think a lot of these teams would go out and get that guy right now if it was that easy. It's not just New Jersey, which aren't getting good goaltending. It's, you know, Minnesota isn't getting good goaltending.

Carolina isn't getting good goaltending. Edmonton famously hasn't been getting good goaltending. Buffalo, Seattle, Toronto, Tampa, obviously, with a very. Masolevsky injury. It's been a lot of talented teams that are not getting a save right now in New Jersey is among them. And I don't know how to solve that problem because if there was an obvious goalie out there, all of those teams would be going after it right now. No, it's true. You can think of any number of explanations here. Is it just that the offense has, you know, the league is obviously wanted to increase offense. I don't think that's unfair to say.

There's expansion, which thins out the pool, how many goalies are out there. if you believe there's a fixed number of, you know, NHL caliber goalies at one time, you add two more teams. It takes four of those goalies out. That affects everyone at some level, but it is interesting. But I do agree with you, Corey.

Goaltending is in a tough spot right now. And you do look at some teams like the Red Wings who are carrying three right now. And I don't know that any of them are the answer to like a team like New Jersey or Edmonton or Buffalo's problems. You don't usually see a lot of goalie trades. But I do wonder some of these teams, and New Jersey would probably fall into this bucket.

to try to make a play for somebody. You know, you can even look to Anaheim, like John Gibson. I don't know if Anaheim is so married to chasing the playoffs this year that they wouldn't have that talk. But some of these teams are going to have to try. Again, how many teams need goalies. I just wondered what the market would be if there's a legit goalie on the market for the trade deadline.

It would probably be a pretty significant price. Right. And to me, if you're going to do it, you do it quick. I don't think you want to wait and try to integrate a goalie in those last six weeks of the season. you're trying to do this thing before Christmas if you're going to do it. I know they got them signed. Imagine if Hell of Buck was available right now.

I know. And I was kind of counting on that as the big story to drive traffic to our website for half of the, half of the winter here. But they got that one done. And then they started winning games again. And it's just taking that whole story away from us. That's right. I know.

How cruel of the Winnipeg Jets. All right. Let's get on to the next question here. Kyle Hammaker wants to know. has Baderd been below met or exceeded expectations so far? This is a fascinating one because it's going to depend so much on who you're talking to. He's exceeded mine, but I don't know that like there were some really high expectations out there. Yeah, he's slightly exceeded mine, at least early on.

Like, I thought he'd be really good. A 55, 60 point guy right away might be a little bit higher than that. The goals might could touch. I thought he could be 30. Maybe he'll touch 35. Maybe it could even be 40 this year. you know, it's above expectations. If your expectations was, like,

what was that ridiculous thing ESPN did on the first night, like, where they, like, put that graphic of like Gretzky or something like that or something? Yeah, right. When you're comparing him to, like, the greatest of all time players, okay, he hasn't been that. Like, he's not, he hasn't been Sidney Crosby's rookie season or even like, I wouldn't say Matthews was a little bit more impressive at all the gate as a rookie or something. So he's not there, but I mean, he's Chicago's best player right now.

I mean, he's impacting games with his scoring and his skill. Obviously, there's going to be an adjustment there physically for him as an 18-year-old going up against much bigger players. And he's, you know, still got a kid's body. But, you know, he's creating a lot of offense consistently. And I would say slightly above expectations. Yeah, I mean, to me, the whole way I've kind of been describing him as like, Like if you invert the goal scoring and the playmaking from Patrick Kane, that's Connor

Badard, right? And that's what he can be here. And I think he's on track, maybe you'll leave it a little head of that. I'd rather take the goals than the playmaking, too. Right. And so, like, that's a little bit better player than Patrick Kane, right? And that's an outstanding expectation, if that's your expectation. He's got similar, like, stats this year to, like, Cole Caulfield and he's, like, four

years younger and a center. So I would- He's got, like, nine goals and 13 games. He's off to a tremendous start. I expected like a 30-30 season from him this year. And he's on pace to, you know, beat that by a good margin. Yep, that's fair. All right.

On to the next one. Mason Richie, drafts are always hyped up, but I never really see them compared much to each other. If 2023 is an A plus draft, wow, Mason, first of all, I'll finish reading this question. You could find that one, I promise. If you look for that one, you can find them compared to each other. If 20203 is an A plus draft as far as high in talent and depth, how would you grade 2024 and 2025. How about 2022 and 2021?

Cori, you're the king of comparing drafts to each other, so no one better to ask the question to. Right, and I think we got to wait at least a second before we call it 23A plus. I know it looked like that early on. Yeah. darn, obviously, yeah, Fantili is an excellent prospect. Leo Carlson is excellent prospect.

Mishkov's an excellent prospect. It could be that, but we'll have to see how time plays out, at least in terms of the depth part of it, definitely. But the high end, you definitely could argue was A plus. comparing it to the other draft. We'll start with the two that have just happened. So we'll say 2022. That would be, you know, that one, I think, is below average.

We just talked about that with Slavkovsky. Like even if Kuli was your one, one, are you, like, like, jumping up and down? Or you're like, he looks like an okay, decent one. I think he's a par one. But he's not thrilled with the top five overall, I don't think. Yeah, he looks like an Echblad, like a Nikohishi. your like really important player but I'm not sure it's too early to say he's Jack Hughes or or that kind of player um so I say that one's below average uh 21 would be interesting 21

gives me like um 2019 vibes in terms of how that draft looks because the first four guys in terms of how I would rank them in terms of how they actually have went in the draft you know, whichever order you put them in. Owen Power, Matt Baneers, Mason, Metavish, Luke Hughes. They're all elite young talents. And again, you can put those guys in whatever order you want. And I think it's, they're, you know, they're absolutely fantastic prospects. McTavre's off to a great start this year.

Baneer is kind of a slow start, strangely. But, you know, Calder winner, him, he's a great player. What's interesting about this draft, why compared 2019? Because 2019 has a ton of stars in the. that draft, you know, four or five six legit stars. And then it's a massive drop off. And then I think this draft, there's kind of of a, from those

four to the next group, it's like, how big is the next group? Is it Kent Johnson who's in the American League? Is it Simon Evanston? He's in that group. It's like, okay, how many other guys are in this next group? It might be only a couple extra guys, and then the drop is pretty massive after that. It's so, like, that's kind of how I feel

about that draft class right now. So I would lean to it being because there's those four really good players, I want to say slightly above average, but I don't know. It kind of looks average to me right now. Yeah. And this is a, you know,

I'll kind of borrow something that you, a drum that you beat regular. You should just consider most drafts are going to work out average. That's why average exists, right? Because that's the baseline. And so that when he talks about in the question, you know, draft's being so hyped.

This is why Corey always is the Grinch and tells people maybe temperate. back a little bit because it things will work out a little differently than we expect and these drafts that are supposed to be 15 20 deep usually you're going to revert within one or two of the baseline average of being these kind of upper line of players and that's kind of what i think with 2021 looks like right now it's like maybe the depth isn't there and then it ended up being one or two extra high end guys uh but well again we're only a couple years out so we'll see for 2024 kind of the same drum i think it's an average class um i think

think it really, and we're so early in the draft process right now, it's hard to, like, be definitive. We need to see how, let's shootoff season. We need to, I just talk about Eisenman early in the segment. Yeah. You know, is he legit? Is he not legit? We got to kind of figure out how his year goes and kind of figure out what, what tier he falls into,

you know, where does you Kempchuk fall? Where does Sam Dickinson fall? I think those are all things we've got to figure out. Right now, it looks like there's one legit, legit guy in Macklin-Sellibrini, maybe two, if you're a big Anton Zelaya fan. And then it kind of drops off to a little, you know, five, six names in the next group. That to me is more of an average group. And then for 25, which the questioner asked, I mean, I don't know.

Like, I mean, I can't. Too soon. I can't even tell you. You know, there's a couple of guys really excited about, like I said, like Hagen's, like Roger McQueen, like Porter-Martone, like Hensler, how I can fit them in where they project in the tiers and whatnot. Like, it's too early for me to say. I wouldn't say early on that there's anything alarming in either direction. I'm not looking at that draft being like, whoa, where's the players or like, holy heck, we got some really good players coming.

Yeah. 2020-draft give you any 09 vibes at all that the Tavaris Headman kind of top and then maybe, you know, it's a Duchayne, Kane, Shen, Ekman-Larsen kind of like good, not superstars. I like that comparison, actually. Yeah. Yeah. All right. All right.

Under the next one here, Swash Buckler wants to know, what does Yuri Kulich have left to improve at the HL level? And is he a center at the NHL level? I'm not sure on a center because he's like 5-11-6-0 and he's like a good, not an elite skater. But I entertain the idea at least because he competes well

and he has the offense. To answer his first question, I think they've got to try him out now. I mean, they're getting hurt now in Buffalo. And they're not winning games. So, I mean, he's been so good. American League, and I try it. Like, he's a really good prospect, and he showed he can score versus men consistently,

so I don't see what it's going to hurt. I think we've talked about this with Buffalo before. It's going to be really interesting as the years go on here with this group of forwards they have. How many more, like, 5-11, 6-0 wings can they really plug into this lineup? Like, where's Noah O'Slin going to fit in this lineup? Where's Benson going to fit? Where's Matt Savoy going to fit?

Is this going to be, like, a lineup of, like, 5-1? 10, 5, 11 guys? Is that how you're going to win and then just kind of have Dylan Cousins and Tage Thompson and Alex tuck around them? So I think that'll be really interesting to see how it all comes together. I've been banning the drum for Buffalo to start trading some of these guys. I know that maybe doesn't win me too many points with Sabres fans, but I think they're at a point right now with the guys that they have in place there

that if they wanted to build a package around one or two of these guys, even the first round picks, I'm not saying necessarily Kulich specifically, but you just listed off like four guys who I think have real trade value who could be a centerpiece of a trade to bring them back, someone that can help them accelerate right now and help their pursuit right on, maybe even just that goalie. Right. I mean, I'm not even going to go into that whole their goaltending thing. People will think I'm a hater, but it's interesting because I tend to agree with you,

but they can't right now because those big guys are hurt. You know, tuck is hurt, Tufts and is hurt. So they need those guys right now. Yeah, no, they got to fill gaps. But I think big picture, I thought, you know, I don't know if it was ever a real even possibility that Hellebuck would have been traded last summer now that he's obviously had the deal worked out. But that was one that I thought would have made a ton of sense. And I think there's going to be more options like that for Buffalo. And that's what I'd love to see them do.

Last one here. Yeah. Package to Adaheim for Gibson would be interesting. But do all those small forwards feel like Pat for Beek type of guys? Maybe not. And I don't know that like, I don't know that I would want to trade Zach Benner. for John Gibson necessarily, right? I think you probably lose that trade.

Benson would be the one who I think you could make, most make the case because of the compete. And maybe you could make that case with Savoy. Would you do Savoy for Gibson? I probably would. I'm not sure. I don't know if Anaheim would. Because, again, I think they would have to ask a question as like this is the kind of player we are missing in our, in our system. And I don't know if that is the type of player that if you look at what they've been drafting, they draft, you know,

bigger players traditionally. I think Savoy on McTavish's wing would work. I think that that's actually a pretty ideal setup for Savoy, I think. Right. I think it would be interesting. But Savoy's stock isn't really high right now. Yeah, no, I know. So I think he would need to have like a really good second half of Good World Junior

before you start talking about that at the trade deadline. Yeah. All right. Just us trying to solve the Buffalo Sabres in five minutes or less. Last one here is going to be from Rob Turin. Could we ever see NHL teams in Europe and if yes, how would it work?

That one just seems too tough. You're the one in Europe right now. You're the one seeing the logistics of it all. Like what would be your thoughts? Yeah, I just, you know, someone here, another writer here made the comment to me this week that they would love to see NHL teams in the Champions League. That feels a little more attainable and yet still too hard to pull off.

I think an NHL team, in Europe travel-wise, with the jet lag, it's just entirely too hard to pull off. You'd almost have to have an entire division out here that played each other and then came over for the playoffs or something, which I'm not saying is like impossible, but it just seems like a logistical headache to me. You know, even the Champions League idea, which I kind of love, you're still asking teams to take time out of there. You'd almost have to tell every Champions League team you're going to have to go do this.

If you're playing an NHL team, it has to be. in North America to make it work schedule-wise for them. And I don't know if that's something that even works out either. So I think the logistics are just too tough. I feel like we're going towards this direction right now, like as a society. I don't know when it happens, but I feel like there's momentum in this direction. I think particularly in the NFL, I think it's going to happen at some point. And the big difference with the NFL, the NHL is remember games.

You got 17 games there, not 82. So I can see like a path where like, The NFL has like these games in England and Germany they've been doing right now. And you could kind of send two teams over there to play that game and then have them stay an extra week and play the team in Europe. And then you've got the team in Europe come over come over for like three to four weeks in a row or something like that. And you could kind of make those logistics works to where it's fair and makes for a representative

quality in terms of the games and the standings. The NHL will be different because I think I agree with you. I don't think you can just have teams pop over for. a one-off in Sweden or something like that. They would need to be, to make it fair, to make it make sense, I think financially, they would need to come over and be here for two weeks. And the NHL already has the one-week buffer on either side of a game, right? Like the Red Wings, the Wild, the Senators, the Leafs are all doing that.

They've got like four or five-day buffers on either side of the game. And it's going to compress the rest of their schedule so much just in the buffer time to adjust to the jet lag that it's going to be a hardship. That's something that's in my story today with Peter. The Aves talked about that from last year and how that affects. them. So unless I think you were going to make a whole division over here and teams were going to come for like, like you said, kind of like a two week road trip, you'd almost have to have six if you're going to do any, I think. I mean, the NHLPA loves this idea, six new teams.

Like, oh, about 150 new jobs. This sounds great. Yeah, that's right. And we can't find goalies on any of these 32 teams right now. Imagine if there was 36 teams. Yeah, exactly. Think about who you're starting goalie would be in that situation. Yeah, no, I, it's, I mean, I love the idea, though, because I do think the hockey culture here is so great. And, you know, you've been to European games, Corey, like the atmospheres, honestly kind of blow the NHL atmosphere out of the water with some of the crowds. And all due respect to our listeners who are the NHL fans, but it's amazing. I would love to see that on a regular basis. And I can't wait to see it in two hours tonight.

So it's going to be, I just think logistically it's going to be too hard to pull off. But I hope I'm wrong. I just, you know, I don't see it. I don't know about like a full-time team there, but could you do something where like you have like a block of your schedule that's purely divisional so that there's no disadvantages in terms of times and stuff like that and just take a block of those divisional teams and to send them over for a couple of weeks? Maybe. You'd have to make sure that those teams were okay with living out of hotels for that amount of time, I guess. But in that way, that's not like what you're kind of describing isn't too dissimilar to just like the baseball concept of homestands and road trips. Right.

Like they are kind of a week on, a week off, and it's just the way of life. Right. The teams would need to be compensated for the lost home games and stuff like that. But that's the way I think it would have to work outside of, like you said, adding five teams essentially across Europe, which is, you know, basically would know that was like kind of the KHL's vision at one point was to be like a cross continental like uh they wanted to have teamed before the war stuff like that they were trying to get teams you know they had the team in in Helsinki yoker yeah and they had visions of going to other countries too there was a china team yes you know and they that was their vision um

obviously that vision is no longer a thing but you know that would be how it has to be implemented is you we need to have a team in the Czech Republic, team in Sweden, team in Finland. And I just don't know if that's really, if that scenario was realistic in the NHL. But I think if football, it's coming. Yeah. All right, that is going to do it for us.

Thanks for listening to this episode of the athletic hockey show prospect series. You can follow us on YouTube at YouTube.com slash at the athletic hockey show. Lots of good stuff posting there every day. So do that, and we'll talk to you soon.