The Athletic Hockey Show - NHL Draft Combine: Rutger McGroarty, Cutter Gauthier, and Juraj Slafkovsky join the show, Corey’s top 127 prospects in this year’s draft, and more

Episode Date: June 3, 2022

Max and Corey are on the scene at the NHL Draft Combine in Buffalo, New York for this week’s episode and are joined by highly-rated prospects Rutger McGroarty, Cutter Gauthier, and Juraj Slafkovsky in separate conversations to kick off the show.Plus, the guys break down Corey’s latest 2022 NHL Draft ranking, featuring a switch at the top of the list with Juraj Slafkovsky jumping ahead of Shane Wright, and discuss why Slafkovsky is Corey’s new No. 1, Marco Kasper’s move into the top 10, other risers like Kevin Korchinski, Lian Bichsel, and Lane Hutson, news and notes from around the combine, and more.And, right now, you can get a 6 month subscription to The Athletic for just $1 a month when you visit http://theathletic.com/hockeyshow Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hey everybody, Max Boltman here alongside Corey Pranman, back with another episode of the Athletic Hockey Show's prospect series, this one live on site from the NHL Draft Combine. Really good show today with interviews with a few prospects who we think are going to go in the first round. Rucker McGorority, Cutter-Goti, and Yerislevkovsky, all really good kids, and I think you really enjoy the interviews. We're going to talk a little bit about Corey's newest rankings, his first full draft board, 127 players long, as well as maybe a little bit of buzz that we're picking up here in Buffalo this

week. So first of all, Corey, we went out for a team dinner last night at Gabriel's Gate, which to me is the best wings in Buffalo. What was your assessment? Yeah, I've been to Buffalo many times because there's just been so much amateur hockey here between these have all-American prospects game here all the time, and obviously the combine I've been here for several years, and I've had the draft here about one year. So we've been through the a lot in recent years and I would concur. There's some really good wing spots here, but Gates Gate has been my go-toe when I've been here in Buffalo.

I always tell people it's like it's one of the things that truly lives up to the hype. Like the whatever wings at any given moment in Buffalo are nearest to you, whatever bar is nearest to you, the wings on the menu there would be the best wings in whatever city that you're coming from, most likely in my experience. Yeah, and it is take really good. You can just tell if you go to the restaurants that they care. about the wings, that they want to be done right, they want the sauce to be good, they want you have a good experience. I appreciate the pride that a lot of these restaurants have in their wings

here. I also tried the beef on whack, the other buffalo staple. You know, it was good. I would say the wings were better, but I did appreciate it. Only fitting that we start this podcast, which is slowly morphing into a food podcast week by week with that little review. But we can now, we'll just get right into the interviews here and then we'll talk a little bit about our takeaways after that. So coming up here, you're going to hear from Rutger McGroherty, Cutter-Gotee, and your S. Levkovsky. All right, we are here now with Rucker McGority from the U.S. National Team Development Program through with, as we talk here today, 26 of your 27 interviews for the week. Yep, yep. How has it been for you? It's been busy. It's been a lot of fun. I mean,

it's a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity, so I'm cherishing every moment and I've enjoyed it. What's been the strangest or most unexpected question you got and so far? That's when I keep, like, that's a question that keeps popping up. But like, for me, there really hasn't been any, uh, any interesting or like in-depth, crazy questions. They prepped you well then. Yeah. Uh, coming from Nebraska, that's a unique thing about you.

I mean, how do you think it's kind of, how is that played into your hockey life? I know you, you played in Metro Detroit. Yeah. Obviously before the program, but how was that shaped you, I guess? Uh, for me, just being a little kid from Nebraska. It's a non-traditional hockey market. I feel like it was awesome with my dad having the key to the rink at the ice box. I feel like it's definitely a big part of who I am.

And I like showing kids in those non-traditional hockey markets. If you do work hard enough, they'll find you and just keep going. For the less there's no, the ice box referring to the Lincoln Stars. Yep, yep, the Lincoln Stars room. And your dad was coach NGM of that team, right? Yep, yeah, yeah, he was. Before you go to Michigan, what was your college football agents? It was the Corn Oscars for sure

Yeah Well you'll get to see Maybe I was easy to make a road game at that point For the Make a road game when they come to Michigan No when Michigan goes to Nebraska Oh when they goes Yeah yeah

If the hockey schedule doesn't That's true That's true Yeah But I'm more Marines all the way now What did you think you learned about The sport And whether it was

For you personally Or just watching the game From having a dad Who worked in hockey I think once you have a dad in hockey I think that you see the game more in depth from a younger age. And I feel like you also, you love the game. Like, you're born into the game.

I went to a hockey game when I was three days old. I feel like I've loved it ever since. And so my dad, but the main thing for my dad is just having a balance of the real world and then the hockey world. So I feel like the balance is definitely a big part that he's taught me. But besides the balance, I feel like he's. It's just the love for the game. Your dad, Jim, who runs the Muskegon-Lumberjack program right now, you know, you've gotten to play, because he's the Eastern Conference team, U.S. program is the Eastern Conference team of the U.S.HL. You've gotten to play them a lot over the last two years.

What's been the Thanksgiving and the Christmas trash talk like? For us, honestly, it's definitely a weird atmosphere at the breakfast on a game day versus the Muskegon Lumberjacks. But for us, honestly, it's still, like, I'm still his kid. He still cares about me, and obviously he wants me to win. But I feel like for us, it's just, it's a funny atmosphere, but I feel like it's still good. Like, there's some cherubs, like if we beat him and he'll come home a little pissed off. But I'll give him a shot. But I feel like I don't like to rub it in too much with him.

So I just kind of let him be, give him the 24-hour cool down, and then I'll talk to him a little bit. You talk about him having the key to the rink. I mean, is he letting you in on a Sunday morning to go skate on the big ice and all that stuff? Yeah, I was seven years old with my buddies going to skate on the USHL rank. We would take the Lincoln Stars players helmets with the visors. We used to think it was so cool where it would be hanging down past my eyes. I couldn't even see. But yeah, it was awesome.

I feel like that was definitely a really good experience for me and my buddies back in Nebraska. Anybody come through the stars that you raised, just connected with or look up to or anything like that? Yeah, Mike Daly-Huson. And that's why my whole life I've worn number two until I got to the program. Mike Delhuezen was definitely someone that really kind of, I think I was four or five years old when I was there. But I still stuck with number two. He was awesome. He treated me really well.

And then obviously, in Lincoln, Nebraska, they were known for their fighters. If it was Brandon Bullock, Michael Sadeo, Jimmy Sears, just a bunch of guys. I feel like a bunch of guys were really nice to me. Yeah, awesome. My favorite game I watched you in this year was Gold Medal. all game at the U-18s, and I know it didn't end the way you wanted, but in that third period, I felt like you were forced. Like, how did you kind of take me into your mindset during that part of that game and

that tournament, really? So for me, really, in that third period, I just, I knew that we needed to tie the game up and I kind of got into a mode, and I really wanted to do it for my teammates, honestly. Like, we were there for two years, and I feel like we were going through that tournament together. Like, no one was by themselves, and just for two years. is you're truly training for that game in that moment. And I felt like I didn't want to leave there with any regrets of maybe if I did this, if I did this a little bit better, like would I have a gold medal around my neck?

So I really was just doing it for my teammates and just giving it a role. When did you find out you were going to be the captain for that tournament? Well, I was, so actually it was our first international tournament in Switzerland. The one in November. The one in November. We had a team vote, and then I got voted captain, and I was captain the whole year. Oh, okay. I guess I just didn't notice the letters in the Plymouth games.

All right, that makes sense. Let's ask you about a couple of your teammates. We talked to Cutter-Gote earlier. What's your scouting report on him, and why do you think more people started to notice him as the year went on? Honestly, like, what isn't there to notice about Qatar? He's a powerful skater. Obviously, you guys know about his shot. He can absolutely fire the puck.

And I feel like he's got a good 200-foot game, and he's committed to playing defense. And I feel like overall, he just, he has a really consistent game. I feel like he comes to work every day. Like, you should see him in practice. Like, he's just an absolute dog. And he's definitely a guy that if you go one-on-one against that you know you're in it and you have to be locked in or else he's just going to dominate you. And then you guys obviously see the stuff on the ice.

But in the locker room, like, Cutter is truly like, he's, He was a part of that leadership group with me, and he's a really good guy that I feel like people just gravitate towards him and respect his opinion and just trust him. We're here now because it's the 22 NHL combine, but you played with Charlie Stramle a lot this season who was going to be a top guy in 2023. What can you tell people about Charlie as a player? Well, he's the big rig. He comes to work every day.

He's physically dominant. I feel like he just makes his linemates around him. better. I feel like he, he's a smart hockey player that just goes and goes through guys, takes the puck to the night. He's just a physical force. And I feel like he's another guy that just comes to work every day in the wait room. He's just, he's just a beast. How many guys have you played with in your career who have had the nickname Big Rig? He's the only one. He's the only one. I feel like there's one unlike every team, but almost he's like Maroon is that. Like people have Nick Hague, I think the Big Rig, right? He's the only one. But I think it really, it fits him well. He is the

I agree. He's really physical, too. Yeah. Yeah. He kills people. Yeah. You have a little bit of, you know, some big 10 rivalries. I know a lot of the guys go out of Michigan, you got Cooley going to Minnesota.

He's going to Wisconsin. So we'll have a little bit of competition there. Yeah, absolutely. It'll be fun. Awesome. Anything else? Just, you know, one, I think when, you know, there's a lot of obviously very positive things about your skills. But I think, you know, you've heard about your skating for a long time coming up.

you know what are your comments on those criticisms and that you see you know I think you whenever I talk to people who are you know fans of your game they point to Jason Robertson he wasn't a good skater and but he had all these other positive things and look at them now what are your thoughts on those criticisms of your game uh I feel like yeah like I don't feel like I am the best skater I feel like I've definitely taken strides this year and my my uh my my skating has gotten better over the past year and at some I'm going to have to work on through my entire career. I just started working with Byrub Underhill this past summer. And her and I have a really great relationship. And she sees a lot of potential in my skating. And we're really excited for the

next years to come and see the strides with my skating. And then also my strength coach is at DVN, Brian Gallivan and Will Morlock, we have like-minded goals for my skating. And if it's the plyometrics or the quick twitch muscles, the separation of the upper body and lower body, I feel like there's just a lot of things. And I feel like another thing is I really didn't start working out hard until last summer. And I feel like that's another thing. Like I look at myself as already really physically developed. But I feel like there's still really long ways to go with my quickness and my speed.

And that's some I'm really looking forward to work on. And I'm looking forward to improving it. What do you think your NHL comparable is? I would say Matthew Chuck. Okay. I love it. I've heard a scout copy of you to Brady before for what it's worth. Yeah.

They play very similar. I feel like I'm comparable to both of them. Always a good family to be compared to it. Yeah. Awesome. Thank you so much your time. Yeah. Thank you so much.

It means a lot. Thank you guys. Take care. Enjoy the rest of the week. Yeah, you as well. Enjoy it. All right. Now we got Cutter Gotee with us here from the U.S.

National Team Development Program. And we'll start off Cutter with. I understand you had some original buffalo wings here. this week. Yeah, yeah. You know, I had them a couple times over the course of the past days, and they live up to the expectations. They are, they are pretty good. What's the week been like so far for you? How many teams you met with and all that? Yeah, it's been a pretty easy week so far. I've met with 16 teams, and that's all I have so far. It's nice meeting with them and see them in person. What were your most interesting interviews? There's a couple of funky questions you haven't

heard before. I think Ottawa asked me if I have a betting app on my phone. Never heard that one before. No, I don't. I think that's a new one in general. Yeah, because I think hockey gambling in general is something that's changed a lot in the last couple of years. Yeah, yeah. So that was a funky question. I haven't been asked before. Other than that, it's been pretty basic so far, so it's been pretty good. For you seeing kind of, I feel like your profile has risen at least in the second half of this season. What has that been like from your perspective? Have you followed that? How much, how aware have you been of that rise?

Yeah, I'm not all over Twitter looking at every single thing that someone posts about me. You know, my brother's really big into it and he'll send me some things here and there. I'm not too worried about it. It's just all outside noise. And I just focus on what I can control and go from there. I'm sure you notice, though, it's more like a central scouting put you that second or third or North America or something like that. Yeah.

It's hard to block that up completely. Yeah, if I see that, it's something that's a pretty cool honor that I've had. the opportunity to have and it's pretty cool talking with family and friends and it's a great time overall. Did you feel like any part of your game changed significantly or gruesing and feeling over the second half that led to that? Do you think? Or even from your U-17 to your U-18 year? Yeah, I thought a lot more, I thought I was a lot more confident and comfortable with my game in the second half than my 18 year. I'm just going out making plays and being more comfortable with my game and my skills that I can go out and do every

single shift. Do you think that that coincided at all with you and like low and coolly kind of meshing and kind of seemed like the lines were kind of inconsistent a little bit in that first half and then it was like you coolly and snuggered over kind of stapled there a lot there and towards the end? Yeah, I think it was kind of my own thing. Just me realizing, hey, listen, this is going to be the future and this is a big year of hockey for me. So I think just buckling down the hatch, getting, making sure my mental side was all good and that confidence was there and kind of just growing up. from there. How'd you like playing center for the first half of the year? It was good. I feel more

dominant in the middle of the ice, controlling both sides of the puck, and I feel like I'm more responsible my defensive side. De-zone as a centerman opposed to a winger. Have you had a conversation with Boston College about whether you're going to be center or waiting for them next season? I have. Yeah, they're going to put me at center next year, so I'm looking forward to it. That sounds like that's the one you like playing. I do, yeah. I'm sure that goes to the one. I'm sure you've had that question with many NHL teams. Yeah, every single team's ask me what I prefer and what they see me as. I just feel that versatility. What are the, what do the teams see you as at a curiosity? They see me as a center. They like my big

powerful game in the middle of the ice. Interesting. What were you about to say like right before that? Yeah, the versatility standpoint, something I've been working on these past couple of years playing left, right, and center, just giving teams, you know, a lot of options down the down the line. What's your scouting report on Logan? Yeah, super skilled. He's got the finesse almost like a ziris. Uh, so he's really fun to play with. You know, a little while you in all three zones of the ice, and he's just really special and got some really good hands. Yeah.

When you are playing on a team like that where there is a ton of spotlight organically, but there's also like, I don't know if it's like competing for it, but in any given game, there's, you guys might have six or seven first round picks this year. Like, what is that dynamic like? Yeah, it's awesome. I think everyone on the team is building for the same goal as to play a national hockey league one day. I think we have such a competitive group.

I'd like to say that our practice are much harder than games. just the way each person competes in every single drill. It just makes the environment so much better and a fun place to be. How do you think Adam Nightingale will do at Michigan State? I think he'll do good. He played there and he coached there a little bit, but it's good to see him go back to the spot that he loved so much. So great through his career so far him.

Our boss is a Michigan State alum, so I had to plant that one. He's very much hoping that he brings him back. What are your thoughts? The coaching change of BC right now? Yeah, there's no worries at all. Jerry was a great guy and he recruited me a little bit and it was fun. It would have been cool to be coached by such a legend college hockey. But my dad is former teammates with Greg Brown and he knows a lot about him and they still keep in touch.

So I'm looking forward to play for a former teammate of my dad's. With we walked by Rutgers, we were coming in here, I think, or maybe he was in here a couple minutes ago. But obviously his performance at the 18s, I think got a lot of people's attention. I know he was the captain of that team. What's he like as a teammate? and what you see from him that time? Yeah, Rucker and I are really good friends. We were roommates all year this past year and last year,

and I think that relationship off the ice shows on the ice whenever we played together. We were always jelling and playing really good hockey. And I think at the 18 world, it showed, you know, his defensive side of the game has picked up with the course a couple of years, and I think it showed offensively how it plays a big role. And he's scoring some big goals for us in that tournament.

The other linemate Snuggler is also a guy getting a lot of attention. You know, what was your thoughts on playing with Snuggie? Yeah, I think he's a super underrated player. I think his 17-year didn't go as plan for him. Sure. I think he took that as a chip on his shoulder going into the summer, and I think he had a really productive summer. Going into his 18-year, he played some really good hockey.

He was a solid player, so he can trust. And it was really fun to play with him. He's always going to give me the puck, and if I'm going to give it to him, he's going to rip his heart shot. It's a good time to be. It was a part of the American. I felt like the first half of the year when I'd watch you, like, the thing I would key on is obviously your speed and your shot.

I wonder where do you see your kind of playmaking game? Did that evolve at all? Is that something that people just noticed more as the year went on? You had no assist, I think, in the first half in the U.S.HL. Yeah, yeah. And then it kind of really came on there in the second half of the season. Yeah, I think just using my shot as much as I can, I did a lot more during the U.S.HL, especially closer to the beginning of the year,

and then Pucks were going my way, and they're finding the back of the net. And I just think over the course of the year, my playmaking skills have gotten a lot better. and playing with guys like Kuling and Snug Group who make the game a little easier, giving Gold Pox with them, and they're finishing their opportunities. It's just a fun time. When you play the mixed schedule,

that's part USHL, obviously, I know you guys always have the international component, but then part college, how did you notice your game, the differences in your game in the USHL versus against college guys? Yeah, I think I play a lot better going against college guys.

You know, I have a chip on my shoulder playing those guys. They were probably looking at it like, all these just little Americans coming to playoffs, you know, it's not going to be a big deal. But, you know, playing those guys was awesome.

They're bigger, stronger. They have more experience than you, and I think it's always fun beating a couple of college guys that think they're a little too cocky. Who would be your NHL comparable? I think I play like Mark Schifley and Pierre de Beauvoir,

you know, both big, power force, lots of skill. We could change the game at any time. Dubois is also a guy who was drafted as a wing and Columbus and down some that's the center of the second that drafted him. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, so that versatility is something I really admire in my game. What about Frank Naser? How would you kind of scout him, size him up? Yeah, he's great. He's my roommate this week so far. Yeah, so he's always been a good friend of mine growing up playing with him. We were playing against him. He's awesome. He's got so much speed and he's got the tack on a bone type mentality. He's not going to let up no matter what. He's great. He was a great for our team and he helped his lot. When you, I mean, because McGarady played in the Metro Detroit leagues too, right? Coming up. Yeah.

How much are you guys aware of, I know you probably had ambitions to play for the program early enough to know, like, oh, I wonder if that guy with my team may. How much do you think about all that stuff as you're coming up? Yeah, as like coming up, yeah, it's something you obviously want to do. I think a little, I paid a little more attention to that. My last year of youth hockey where I thought it was actually a goal of mine and reachable. And after I made that, it was pretty cool to see all the guys that you played with that played against making the teams, old friendships,

that you rebond. It was just a great situation overall. Yeah, that's it for me. Yeah, that's it for me. Awesome, man. Thanks so much. Yeah. We're in Salkowski. I look, we can start with an easy one. We're just talking about a little bit. What's this last couple weeks been like the whirlwind of the world winds and coming right in here in the drama?

Yeah, it was fun, but it was everything like so quick, first world, and then didn't even get home and right away here, but I think finally after this I take some rest and go summer for holidays so I can wait. Right in the middle of the weekend, I'm sure you can have the time of the meeting's book, but how many of you already done, do you know? I already done all of them. All of them? Yeah, so I did 14 together.

You didn't have much about summer break, too, because you did world championships, and then was the Olympic qualifiers first, or was the HILCA first? HILCA first, then Olympic, and then TPS and then TPS and. 10 P&S. And then we'll junior as a lot. Yeah. That was a long time ago. How did you feel like that stretch affected?

Did you feel that you were feeling fatigued or didn't look like if you were? Yeah, well, I felt okay next of the season. I didn't feel tired at all. That's good for me, I think, that I felt good and nice. I had like over 90 games so I feel prepared for everything. It seems like at least from I was over obviously on the side of the world for it, but second half kind of started with the Olympics really starting to take off from you. I'm curious, you know, was there something that when you got back to the league after the Olympics?

Was it confidence? Was it just kind of a path to increased ice time? Why do you think that everything is kind of more well? Yeah, I think it was everything together like confident and more ice-ice. I think coach she's even trusted me more so everything together and it's much easier to play you already know what I was not because I was going to turn back together yeah I think since we were kid like you know together since we were 11 or 12 like eight seven eight years are you friends or just kind of more see each other and

you know we are friends and Actually, we're going for holidays together and we're always reunited, so we are very much. Why did you decide to go to Finland, but you think he decided to stay in Slovakia? I think he decided to stay because he got that opportunity to play in the men's team like three years ago, I think. And that was good for him. I didn't have that opportunity. I would play juniors, and I think juniors are still a little bit better in Finland. sure sure then into lackey so that's why thanks a lot what do you think you learn the most

about yourself you've been in the way that since you're not that's that I can go through everything but myself and that I'm ready for for everything what comes and like yeah it's much easier to go for example to play north america after after I was alone already Of course I will miss my family or that stuff, but I think it will do. Everything will be much easier now for me in the world. What do you view as the area of your game that's going to be so much more? I think it's basically everything like, I think skating that's got better and also like shooting and it's been activity and I think everything all.

I think everything overall. What's been the attitude been like in Slovakia, around the Slovakia Hockey Federation? Because this has been kind of a banner season for Slovak hockey. You guys get silver at the Hylindigrisky. You get the bronze at the Olympics. You know, it seems like, you know, between what you've been able to do this year,

between what Simon's been able to do this year, and just in general, your Slovak national team, it's been one of their best sequels I could recall the last couple decades. So what's kind of been the attitude around in Slovakia? around their hockey teams right now. Yeah, I think a lot of people are now watching hockey more and that's only good and that's what we like want.

We want a lot of people to come and play hockey and I think it's like good I'd say good ad or I'll say for hockey in Slovakia that we managed to win and a lot of people are watching and then new and new kids will come and play and For example, in 15, 20 years, we can have a lot more and better place. Anything else? Anything you want to ask? Sure. What have been your most interesting interviews so far?

What have been your most interesting interview so far? Actually, maybe with the Montreal. Why? Yeah. We had like, we had like long interview and then we went like yesterday night for another interview. So, it's been a lot of talking with them. They brought you back here for interview or they took it out for dinner? No, it was already late night.

So we just stayed in some conference room. So, yeah, we just stayed there. So that's interesting. So why would it, why they keep you? long you think? No. I don't know. They want to, I think when you like pick first overall you want to, of course you get to choose

what we want but I think they want to know like everything and everything best about like the players they are thinking that maybe they can choose and they want to know everything. I think they know everything as well as I heard. That is interesting. Any questions? Surprise. So that was Montreal. I think I am.

So that was Montreal. Who has been asking that question? Yeah. Okay. I said, well, everyone is saying why I'm like everyone. Yeah. I'm like everyone. All right.

Thank you so much. Thank you. All right. All right. So good stuff from all three of those guys. I do, you know, we should tell people we weren't able to record with Slavkovsky and the same location as the other two. So if you're picking up kind of a different audio background situation there, it's because we were in the restaurant. There's obviously people, you know,

going around glasses clinking. So apologies for that, if that was distracting at all. But hopefully people still got a good feel for your eye, who's a, it really seems really mature, polished kid. And obviously, in addition to how impressive he is on the ice, I was pretty impressed sitting down with him. Yeah, I've talked to him twice this season. And I, like, obviously his English isn't perfect, but I think he's been a very impressive individual whenever I've talked to him mature and I think he'll be a fan favorite,

especially when he develops his English a little bit. Let's kind of, you know, we'll get back to a couple of the other guys in a second, but we're going to talk about your rankings here anyway. Let's just go to them right now here because he is now your number one prospect. What went into that decision? I know you take a lot of care, especially,

you know, when you're at this very top of the draft, very high profile thing. It really, you know, it's a, I know they're in the same tier still, Slavkovsky and Shane Wright, but why I make the switch? Right. And as I talked by the intro, it was a, it's not an easy call for me. I was Jeff Gordon, Kent Hughes right out, I'd have to be having some sleepless knife because I do think it's a near coin flip for me at the number one spot between

your eyes, Slokovsky and Shane Wright. And it's kind of, the margin just kept shrinking as the season went on. I mean, here I was, I think, one of three, three, four. my preseason list and by February it was there in the same tier and then as as the world championship just kind of creep closer I said this is a near coin flip and now it is a coin flip and and when it was a coin flip I some might argue well it's a coin flip that take the center which is not an unreasonable argument but my position was it's it's a coin flip in part because he's a center and but I think the toolkit with some cost

is just so appealing. He has every NHL asset you want. He has six foot four. He can skate. He has tremendous skill. He can shoot the puck. He can make plays. He has a strong enough compete level that I think you can envision all the good things he can do. And with Slavkoski, people come back to, well, his production and think of it. It's a completely legitimate argument. I'm not going to sit here and say that either of them are perfect process. aspects in either their skill sets or their profiles. But with Slavkovsky, even if he didn't have the great production in Liga, it's not just he had one good tournament. It's the whole tournament.

It's the Holika. And then it was his World Junior Games. And then it was the Olympics. And it was the World Championships. And even going back to the last season, really impressive for a 16-year-old of the World Junior's. Really, really impressive for a 16-year-old of the World Championships. Even then many people forget. We're both at the World Championships.

just a 16-year-olds, not just this most recent one. And so I think it's that it's that body of work to go with the skills that. It was on perfect body of work that made me think that there's just a little bit more high side here, a little bit more star potential. But, you know, it's Shane Wright. It's hard to go against Shane Wright, too. Yes, he had a down season by his standards, still top 10 OHL scoring, still made Canada's U-20 team in a significant role, still had those, those are,

Unreal performances in that underage at various levels. Just, I've watched Shane Wright. Maybe you can argue I've overwatched him, but I've watched him now over the last three years between live on video at least 50 times, maybe more. And I just, there's just a lack of a wow factor there with him when I watch. And those are kind of the factors that I balance, even if I think the hockey centers are exceptional.

And there's a lot of really good positives in the players game. Like I said, it was a really tough decision. I don't feel comfortable about it, even though I've already published it. I won't feel comfortable about it going forward. But I think that kind of tells the story at the top of this year's draft. Well, and this is one of those kind of quintessential comparisons that you have to make in the draft, where you're comparing a guy who plays against men to a guy who's playing in juniors. And you can go back just a couple years to the 2020 draft.

And whether it was Lucas Raymond and Alexander Holtz or Tim Stutzson, versus Alexei Lefronier and Quentin Byfield. And I wonder if you put Yerislevkovsky in the OHL or the WHL this year, who's to say that his numbers aren't what Byfields were in his draft year? It's a great argument, but you could make all the hypotheticals you want. We have to deal with reality, though. And in reality, you have to compare, you know, you can't go to the podium and say, well, you know, I'm only going to take the junior guys or something like that.

We're going to rule out all the high school guys. and put him in another draft. No, you can't do that. You have to compare the U.S. high school kid to the guy playing versus men in Finland to the guy playing in the Western Hockey League. And you give whatever information you can and you balance it and you make the best educated guess you can because at the end of the day we're all just guessing.

None of us know who the best players are going to be. And to the point about the international tournaments, that is not everyone plays at every international tournament, but certainly the world championships, but that is one of the reasons that the world championships are so useful is they can be a little bit of an equalize international tournaments are so useful. You look at Slavkovsky, the second most productive world championships by a U18 player, I believe, ever after Patrick Lainey. Yeah, and I'm sure some people will, like, the argument is about Stavkovsky in the world to be so ridiculous.

But how he only gets his points against Kazakhstan or Italy is like, yeah, no, it's like, no shit. Everybody gets their points against the shitty beats. Good players do too. but there were NHL players at that tournament and he outscored them. He outscored Nico Yishir and several other good NHL players. And I

get it. I'm not saying it's a perfect tournament to evaluate somebody yet, but there's a reason why most 17-year-olds weren't there. You know, there's a reason why Logan Cooley and Cutter Goce weren't there for the USA. There's reason why Jo Kim Kamel wasn't there

for Finland or Jonathan Lekkaramaki wasn't for Sweden. That's a really tough tournament to make for any 17-year-old or 18-year-old. So it's, I get the whole play to well against week teams argument. It's legitimate in some regard, but, man, if you score nine points in the world championships as a kid, just get the guys to do. And to your point, Corey, like, you know, Tomash Tatar was Slavkovsky's team at first of Lakh.

He played the same schedule. He obviously had a 30-point season in the NHL this year and then has had much better than that in past years, and he did not score as many points as Lovkovsky did in that tournament. Right. Like I said, you don't want to just focus on just one tournament, but it's a really, historically, at least for me, the world championship has always been the second best level of hockey behind the NHL. And, you know, one of as many NHL is that this one, it might have been five years ago

for various reasons, but there were still quite a few NHL players that went to this event. So, I don't know, it's a really impressive tournament overall. and number one ranking isn't based just on that, but it's a considerable variable, and if you don't think that term, it should have considerable weight, I don't know what to tell you. So pivoting from your rankings

to the question that I'm sure people are going to have when we get back from this combine, you are waffling here at the top. How much do you believe the Montreal Canadians are wrestling with this decision? I do think it's a debate. I think you can need, I think there's people who are talking to run the league

who they believe it's a strong debate. I've talked to teams. I think they have Salkowski, a one. I've talked to teams. I think Kuli could even be in the mix out one. I think there's Logan Kooley from the program that is. It's a tough one.

I, you know, I honestly, if I was Montreal, I would struggle with this. Because I think I was having a conversation with this a couple of NHL people about who, like me,

don't have shade right over one on our list. And be like, well, if you were actually in, Jeff Gordon, she was right, I would you do? I might take right. You're at your home arena. You've got a Canadian-born exceptional status player who has been the presumptive number

one for years, and it's not like he had a bad year. No, he had a down year by his standard. Right, his high standards. It wasn't overall, still an excellent year. Top 10, OHL score. Yeah, it was the kind of year where if you had a top three, top five pick, very happy to pick that guy. Number one, Calvertere, probably not, but it wasn't that far off.

All right. So let's move on then to Cutter-Goti, who, you know, I think he's, we've already discussed, been one of the risers of these last couple months and certainly your last couple sets of rankings. But the interesting tidbit that I took away from that, and I know you posted about this right after it happened, is that when he's having meetings with teams, not only does he say that he likes to play center, prefers to play center. Teams are telling him they see him as a center. He's going to play center at Boston College next year.

Right. And that wasn't, I don't think, him just blowing smoke up or asses kind of thing, just trying to boost, you know, boost himself up that you can play center and teams think he can play center. Based on my discussions with teams,

a lot of teams think he is a center. Not everyone, mind you. Some worry about the hockey sense. Some don't think he's for sure going to be a center of the NHL. But the thing that's most interesting is that his next coach thinks he's a center, which I think is a, playing center in college hockey is not an easy thing if you're not actually a center.

So, you know, I think that he can play the middle. I think there's a reason why he's going to go, he won't last very long on draft day. And it's because he has all the attributes and he can play a premium position. Play a premium position. Can that get him up into potentially? I mean, you've got him at number six. Like, could it get him even higher than that? I think it's in the route possibility.

I think I wanted about Philly at 5. And Philly does not have a lot of great unc center options. Morgan Frost is a good player. Obviously, they moved on from Nolan Patrick. I think if they believe in the player who can play in the middle, I think Cutter Gochay to Philly is a guy that can make a lot of sense. All right. And then let's go to McGroarity here,

and then we'll circle back onto your rankings. I love doing that interview because you can really tell, number one, how passionate this kid is about hockey. grew up around it. I loved hearing the stories about, you know, his dad letting him and his friends into the rink in Lincoln. But you really can tell, no surprise he was a captain for Team USA. He really does have a passion for this. Yeah. He's really, I've talked to a couple of times, really well-spoken individual. Like, I don't know, I'm not going to say, I hate what he'll say he's for sure captain in the NHL because there's really good leaders and really good individuals

in the NHL, but he's got that potential to wear a letter for teams. higher up in the totem pole. I just because not only because he's well spoken and articulate because he's a great player too and he's highly competitive on the ice. Those are a lot of ingredients for a bright future.

I know there's people who aren't particularly interested around draft time and hearing about that side of things because, you know, ultimately you don't want your team drafting just for character, but I also think that the perspective here that probably... But I remember like on two, the draft

night when Keondre Miller would draft that was just in 18 yeah I remember I tweeted that I was like I know Keondre is a good player he also a hell of a guy he's be a fan favorite and I got some fans like oh who cares just want a good player and now he's a good player for the NHL in the NHL and the fans love him yeah it's like and coaches love him teammates love him and you know it's just that stuff is important well you hear the perspective like about how he went into that third period of that gold medal game and they're trailing and I I that's why I asked him that question is I wanted to know like what you know what you know what's

bird that. I thought that was an awesome period of hockey from him. And for a team, it's not just like, okay, can you show up in big moments, although that is certainly part of it. You're also, when you draft a kid, you're hoping that you're going to know them and have them be a big part of your organization for the next decade plus, right? And it certainly helps if there's someone who you think is going to, you know, give it their all and do it in a way that's going to be a positive thing for your whole organization. I think it does matter. Circling back to number one, what would you do. We can disconnect it.

Well, first we just ask who is your one right of player. I have Shane right at number one, but you know, I appreciate the difference here in the styles of players they are. Is that Kovsky 2 for you? Coolies 2 for me,

but, you know, I really do care about the center position a lot. And I think it's really close between all three of them. Like, for me, you have a tier of 2 and their tier one. For me, it would be all three in a single tier. Right, Cooley, self-Coste. I've heard people run the league that have different. Some have the Slavkovsky and Wright in a tier. So I have all three of those guys in a tier.

What I think is interesting to do is like, you know, Wright and Slavkowski seems like it's going to be the debate. Yeah. But I think there's just as interesting a debate to be had between right and Cooley on the two different styles of centermen that you have here. Right. Because Cooley is just, he's probably the most fun player. He's electric.

Absolutely. And I think, you know, the whole time you've seen him coming through the program, when he's on the ice, he has that quality that, You think anything can happen at any second. You don't want to take your eyes off him. Whereas Wright, I think it's really more you watch. And, you know, Arpin did the kind of report to this effect. And, you know, you kind of have to watch a lot and absorb the details to necessarily

appreciate the full completeness of this game. I've had a few scouts and arguments me over the course of the last two years when I've talked to him about Wright's game and how it's not very flashing. They say, you've got to keep watching it. But I remember I talked with a scout about a week ago. He made a great argument. He said, if you're picking a first, overall, don't you want to be obvious?

Do I need to watch this guy 20 times to get it? When you watch Nathan McKinn in this draft year, you didn't need to watch him 20 times to understand what you would get. And this guy's just, you know, his skating jumps out of you. The skill jumps out of you. I get that point too. But I think ultimately if, you know, if we're going to look back in 10 years and say, you know, okay, who was the best player in this draft and why didn't they go number one, you know,

it's quite possible to answer that question then would have been, well, he didn't pop like crazy. And so even though he had it, like, I'm thinking of a Bergeron when I see this. I don't know where you think Bergeron would go in a redraft. I'm not saying he is Bergeron, but that's a comp that gets used for him. Sure. Like, you know, Bergeron to Redsend, certainly go top three. And, you know, I'm not saying that they're identical players at the same age. I don't, you know, Burjohn obviously didn't have quite the offensive production that right. I guess I bring that up because if, you know, if we fast forward five years from now, and I told you Logan Cooley's been the best player in this draft class, I don't think you're going to blink an eye,

right? No, but I won't think I would blink an eye if you told me Shane Ray was either. Right. but it's just for different reasons, right? Like, you know, ultimately the comps that you have on these two guys, I think you're taking Braden Point over Mika's Abanajad, right? Point being the comp you have on Kulay's Abanajad. Yeah, the reason why we can get comparable to puts on the whole thing my first year doing these things too.

The issue with that is something we discussed with Kooley before is when you're on those extreme parts of the size scale, I dealt with that issue with what Salkiske's comp too. I have to use this comp for a guy who's not even the NHL anymore and Rick Nash is that there's a lot of the extreme parts of the size scale. is that there's only so many five, ten centers in the NHL. And I said, okay, he's not as good as Jet Q's. He's not as good as Gray and Point.

But he's better than Vincent Trochuk. I was like, okay, which one is he closer to? Point or Trochek. And I thought he's closer to points. Stylistically, more Hughes, though, right, than point? Stylistically. Like, I think a point I think of, like, he is standing there at the gold mouth and he is taking hits and all that stuff. Right.

It's, because there's just so few of them. These are the issues I dealt with with Levkovsky, too. Like, is he Anthony Mantha? Like, no, he's far more competitive. Yeah, sure. But is he Miko Ranton? No, he's a better skater. Yeah.

And he doesn't have, like, as much playmaking, pure, you know, Brandon is one of the most skilled, smartest players in the NHL. So, you know, I started going back in time, you know, someone says, you know, he's malking as a wingers. Like, no, that's ridiculous. Like, you know, like, you know, you can't, you can't do that. So you guys have to be somewhat. Realistics. I eventually went back

time and looking for other comparable and I landed on Rick Nash. Well, who was it? Was it McGority or Gautier? One of them talked about kind of him with like kind of a Zegra's quality to them. And I thought that was interesting because I... You're talking about Kuli now, right? Yes, correct, right. And they said Kulay had kind of a Zegrois quality to him. And I do get

I think what they're getting at there. But I think I see more Jack's style. Yeah. And more maybe Zegra's caliber. Yeah, just as a skating. Yeah. Zegers isn't a strong skater and he's, I would say, just he's more dynamic with the puck than Jackdiff, who is really skilled the puck, but Z is one of the most skilled, intelligent players in the NHL.

Right. The defining features, for me, of both Cooley and Hughes is... And what they do at pace, right? It's that they can create these plays while burning past you, and you're just turning around to catch up to them, and they've already slid it back across the slot. Yeah, I think that's all fair. Yeah, so I think that's interesting.

Anything else on any of these guys before we dive back to your list? No, it isn't. All right. Marco Casper goes to nine for you. I don't remember where you had him before. I want to say it was around 12. 12. Yeah.

So he's into the top 10. Is that more a product of kind of feedback from the previous list? You got to get this guy up to board a bit? Well, just more than the world. The world was a variable. Just how much for Sofsky doesn't change something substantially. But, you know, a nudge when you see how he's playing against pros,

how he plays against a team USA that has NHL players on them. And he's showing that he could be a useful. full player that is it's not the most skill in the world but it's good enough skill that I think he can be a score in the NHL I'll petition on the second line playing in the playing I think he'll play

in the middle too because he's got good skating he's really competitive he's strong on pox you know there's there's players around that slot that might excite you more from a pure skill highlight a real perspective but I think this guy's a really complete player and

I and I think from one shown the second half versus pros in the SHL and then here in the world championships, it's hard not to imagine having a successful in HL career. I'm not going to make every single one of these be about the player comps, but because they are in addition to this addition, different spelling there, I do want to know you comped him to Sam Bennett. I think that's an interesting one because it kind of forces the question, like, what do you see Sam Bennett as?

Is it kind of the guy that he was in Calgary or what he's become in Florida? Oh, so you could, I meant, yeah, like, that's why the cops was kind of a tricky one. Yeah. What do you mean by that? Rick Natch wasn't playing in the NHL. You're talking about, like, the retired Rick Natch. Yeah, right, the 50-year-old. 40-year-old.

40-year-old. By that, I mean, the Sandbin we see now where he's a very solid second-line center in the NHL right now, who brings speed, brings tenacity. He is not the main play driver off. That's a producer on that team, but he produces off. offense still. And it's in that hard area right at the front of the net. It's a high percentage here.

He's a guy that coaches, you know, and this coach particularly Brunette really likes, but he's not your go-to guy. Yeah. Yep. I think that's fair to say. I mean, to me, the stuff that pops about Casper is that he, high, high engagement level, motor is crazy. And he doesn't have a problem, you know, he gets, I wouldn't say he has, like, elite hands,

but he finishes. No, I think he has, like, when I watch him, I think they're skilled. Sure. It's not going to be the top three or top four on a team, but it can be, it's absolutely, you know, top two, top three line quality skills. Yeah, yeah. All right. A couple of the other guys who moved up, some of the defensemen here. Kevin Kortinski, is he up on this list for you?

I look, he was up a couple of spots. Leon Bischel. Leon Bishel was a guy I moved up quite substantially. I moved Hudson up quite substantially. I moved Ryan Chesley up quite substantially. Let's start on Kortinski for a second because. I have him at 16 and I still wonder if I'm too low on this guy because as we talk right now, Seattle just made it to the WHL finals. He's been a big part of their success this season and they're having a great playoffs.

6-2, mobile, really high skill level, really young 042, like June, July, 04. The defense has worried me less now, but it's still not the selling point, but I would say if I wanted to watch. watching the playoffs, it's not been a big concern for me. So that's the one I wonder if I'm too low. But I still, I've raised him still over the course of the last couple of months to a guy. And I, you know, I talk to teams that have higher picks than 16. That would be excited to get that player. So I think he's going to go higher than I list him.

Okay. What, Hudson, I think, is one of the ones who made the biggest leaps. I mean, what, fun. Hudson and Bishel. Yeah. What finally, well, okay, we'll start with Bishel, like, because he's higher on a list at 15. Something you're hearing, something that you had seen. Obviously, he hasn't really been playing much lately.

Yeah, it was a little bit, you know, a little bit of what I've seen before, a little bit of what I'm hearing, a little bit of teams advocating him to me and I had to go back and we'll go back and move him back and watch him more video. Obviously, he hasn't played a game at my last list if he jumps, and he jumps up. He actually was the first guy in the next tier. Yeah. So he did move up quite substantially, but it wasn't like, he was like massively off the list. Yeah, just going back and watch, particularly his SHL games. and even watching him with his junior games

so I can see him with the popcorn or see him with the power play a little bit and he's 6-5 he skates quite well for the size he's physical the question is always just how much offense is there and I don't think it's great

but can I think can I see a first pass defense in the NHL and I think so and if he could be a competent first pass advancement with the feet and the size and the physicality then you're talking about you know King of a general You're talking about Brandon Carlo, Eric Chironach, those kinds of players, and I think this guy could be next.

Hudson's guy, we were debating his height at dinner last night because, you know, obviously, no matter what it is, he's going to be an undersized defenseman in the NHL. You've got him up at number 22 on your list, which I think is a pretty significant jump for you. Yeah. We were debating where he lands. I think you said it was, what, five, eight and a half on yours? That's when Seths Central last measure to him ad. We'll see you at the actual combine when he comes in. I'm sure there'll be a lot of people watching that one closely.

Maybe we'll get the Cole Coughfield, a motive reaction when he goes up a half inch or whatever it was from a couple of years back. But, you know, this guy we've talked about in the show before. I like him. I know you like him. It's just always that question of how many of these guys, NHL coaches are willing to make space for. So here's what I did. I'm going to humble brag here a little bit. Yeah.

I had some people who really like it compared to Tori Crook. So, and I was like, oh, well, Tori Crue's a better skater than him. And I said, well, what I did out of curiosity was I went to go watch Torrey Krug shifts. I watched that at zero period of time. Like, how similar is this guy at Tori Krue, who was the comparable I used? There is some differences. I think Tori Crews a little bit more physical in general. But when I was watching Tori Krug, I thought the skating didn't pop for me.

Like, I thought it would. I misremembered it maybe. And, you know, it's good. Hudson's a good skater, but it's not an exceptional. five, eight, five, nine feet. Just like Hudson, I don't think is exceptional, five, eight, five, nine feet. They're just both really skilled, exceptionally smart puck movers. And it was from watching crew ships that I became more persuaded that I think that there's a,

there's a trajectory there that Hudson could hit. I haven't met Lane yet. Have you met him? No. Because one thing, you know, Jeff Blaschell was the, you know, obviously former coach of the Red Wings, was the junior coach for Tori Krug. kind of had the same launch year that they were both part of this team in their first years in the USHL and set them both onto NHL trajectories.

And so they've got a closely connected story. And the way Jeff Blashell talked about Tori Krugge, one of the things I think he always comes back to is kind of the swagger that Kruk has. And I think that's really even more important for those smaller defensemen, partly for the physicality reasons you said. Right. I don't know about that on terms of his personality, but you watch Hudson on the ice and he has, he has that. I mean, every time he has the puck. he's not thinking about, oh, how do I get up with my forwards or how do I make my D-D pass?

He's thinking scoring chance, where's the opportunity, and how can I make it happen? So definitely all the ice, I see that. And you never know. I mean, who knows whether he's going to be starting to fight in the Stanley Cup final quite the same way as Krug was. I probably wouldn't advise it for either of them. Yeah, fair enough.

But as he balks up, maybe he at least, you know, puts that tool in his bag. anybody else here before we before we wrap it up probably Chesley is probably one we should mention and I think in general I think that was kind of the feedback I kept getting on my list as defensemen in general I think only had like 600 defense men in the first round on my last list

I think now I got more close to eight or nine which would be more representative of how we think things will probably go on draft day and how things are already go on draft day and Chesley is one of just keeping some feedback on and like yeah he's not the sexiest player he's not that big he has offense, but it's not that great offense,

even though historically you go back, you know, Ys 17 here at offense, he's always been an offensive guy coming up. If he wasn't on the same team with, you know, Hudson, Casey, right? I mean, he's going to have, it's going to be the same situation next year with Lacombeau and Brock Weber and Johnson and yada yada,

but it's, but there's still, he'll think there's some skill there, he's got a hard point shot, he's very physical and competitive, he's a really strong skater. you know, there's, you're not jumping up and down because you just got this guy. He's not going to be a highlight real type player. But I think people, you know, people, I was persuaded that this guy could have a long

NHL career, even if he may not have the most offense when he gets there. So I think the follow-up question that people are going to have when you say, you know, you didn't have enough defensemen as are you basically based on, you know, historical knowledge of how many defensemen go in the first round. Are you moving guys up that? No, no, no, no. It's just, I just think I just, it's a coincidence that a lot of the guys that are underselling, uh, word, word offensemen, I think, on my previous list and just, because,

you know, obviously I'm talking to people throughout the season, but as I'm building up to my, my, my final list, and this meant to be the final final list, it might be some tweaks by the end, but this is finalish. And that's when I start really making calls and like start grilling down guys and And I asked for feedback, okay, who am I off on? Who do you think is way better than I have?

Where do you think is way worse than what I have? And there was just, it just so happened. It was a coincidence that the feedback I kept getting is I'm not underwriting a lot of these offensemen.

And I'm going back and watching Chezzi and what I'm watching Fishel. I'm going back, I'm doing the Hudson homework I just mentioned and just a coincidence in that regard.

One of the names that I had someone mentioned to me about Ryan Chesley was Ryan McDone. I think you would have people push back on my other. Oh, yeah. Not even close.

But you mentioned Ryan. Lindgren. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's a guy who I think a lot of New York Rangers fans would go to war for right about now. Yeah, absolutely. And that kind of thing. Like, yeah, Ryan Lindgren, not the biggest, not the flashes offensively, but he can skate

and he competes hard and he provides just enough puck movement that you don't hate him on the ice when he's there to go with all the stuff you love about. Which ultimately probably translates to what, at number five or so, number four, five? Yeah, that's kind of, where I have Cheszie on the list, but it's a 29th best place. in the draft. Yep. That's where you're probably hoping to get there. Yes.

All right. Well, that I think is going to do it for us today from the combine. We will obviously have much more. Obviously, there's more to come that we'll gather while you're listening to this episode, hopefully. And we'll talk to you again this week. But thanks for listening. You can subscribe to the athletic audio plus on Apple Podcasts to get all the bonus content

from our entire network. It starts with a 30-day free trial. And then it's just 99 cents a month after that. Right now you can. Subscribe to The Athletic for a dollar a month for six months when you visit theathletic.com slash hockey show. We'll talk to you soon.