The Athletic Hockey Show - NHL Final Four underdogs: talking New York Islanders with Arthur Staple, Montreal Canadiens with Arpon Basu, Dougie Hamilton’s Carolina Hurricanes future, Multiple Choice Madness, and more

Episode Date: June 14, 2021

First, on a jam-packed episode of The Athletic Hockey Show, Ian and Hailey discuss the Carolina Hurricanes giving Dougie Hamilton’s camp permission to speak with other teams about a possible sign-and-trade, Max Pacioretty facing his former team, the Montreal Canadiens, in the Final Four as a member of the Vegas Golden Knights, and more.Then, The Athletic’s Arthur Staple joins the show to talk about the New York Islanders’ clinical Game 1 win over the defending Stanley Cup champion Tampa Bay Lightning, the impact of successive trade deadline acquisitions JG Pageau and Kyle Palmieri, if the Islanders are boring and/or bad for hockey, and much more.Next, The Athletic’s Arpon Basu calls in to discuss how the last three weeks have been for the Montreal Canadiens, working their way back from a three-games-to-one series deficit against the Toronto Maple Leafs in round one to now finding themselves in the Final Four, the Canadiens embracing their role as an atypical underdog, Carey Price’s play in the playoffs, and much more.Plus, to wrap things up, Ian and Hailey run through a series of Multiple Choice Madness questions including whether you’d rather start a franchise with a $10 million player or a $5 million coach, which Boston Bruins UFA stays or goes, and if Sabres fans should be concerned about Owen Power’s likely NCAA return next season.And, don’t forget, you can sign up for an annual subscription to The Athletic for just $3.99 a month when you visit http://theathletic.com/hockeyshow Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

We're back. It's another brand new edition of the Athletic Hockey Show to kick off your week. Ian Mendez, Haley Salvean, with you ahead on this episode of the podcast, both Arthur Staple and Arpin Basu. We'll drop by chat about the underdogs in the final four. That would be the New York Islanders, the Montreal, Canadians. After the Islanders won, the opener in Tampa will examine what it means for the game.

If the defensive-minded islanders take out the offensively charged defending Stanley Cup champions, It's not bad for the game. We'll chat with Arthur Staple about that. We'll pick Arpin's brain about all this fuss over these national landmarks at the CN Tower and Niagara Falls being lit up in the colors of the Montreal Canadians. And some news from a non-playoff team, as well as the Carolina Hurricanes have reportedly given Dougie Hamilton's camp permission to speak to other teams.

So we got a lot to jam into this hour plus show. Haley Salvean, I know you're a huge soccer fan. So walk us through how many hours you spent on the weekend watching Euro 20. I guess it's still called Euro 2020, right? Am I right on that? Yes, Euro 2020. Okay. Yeah.

So how many hours did Haley Salvin spend on her couch watching soccer? Not too much because there was, I mean, probably like at least five. That's not that bad, right? That's not too bad. Five hours? It's not bad. My favorite team has not played yet, so I've been anxiously awaiting the France game on Tuesday, France, Germany. I am Italian as well, so I did catch the Italy game and was pleasantly surprised that they looked good against Turkey.

But, no, I love the Euro. I love the World Cup. It just reminds me of when I played soccer when I was in high school. and it's still one of my favorite sports. I don't understand people who say soccer is boring. I just think that's a weird take. I hope you don't think it's boring. You know what?

So I'm not a soccer fan. I did cover a World Cup though. I went to the, I went to Germany in 06 to cover the World Cup, which I think really agitated a lot of my Sportsnet colleagues because they were like, you're setting that guy? He doesn't even like soccer.

But I was the only available reporter. and off I went. And it was amazing. So you know what? I do get into, I will watch World Cup. I will, especially if Canada has a chance to qualify coming up here. I would certainly be into it. But I'm certainly not a soccer junkie. Yeah. I mean, I went to Spain two years ago and we did the whole Camnew experience with FC Barcelona. And it was so cool. I wasn't a huge Barcelona fan, but we were in the city and we did the whole tour and like they basically have Leonel Messi's trophy case and it's just incredible. I think soccer or football in Europe is just when you're over there and you're,

it's a completely different kind of experience when you're in Europe watching or doing anything involved with with the game. It's really cool. Yeah. And it's a lot like watching hockey in Canada, right? And a little later in this episode, I'm excited to get Arpin on here to talk about kind of if they can allow some more fans at the Bell Center because that's a great atmosphere. So look, we'll get into those playoff teams in a second. But I think one of the biggest stories that dropped early Monday, Haley, and we've got to get full credit to Elliot Friedman of Sportsnet, who I believe was the first to have this.

Elliot reporting that the Carolina Hurricanes have given Dougie Hamilton in his camp permission to talk to other teams. Hamilton, of course, Haley, set to become an unrestricted free agent this summer. And so what this really does is allows Dougie Hamilton to go out, seek another deal. And if there's an interested party, there's a sign and trade component here. So the hurricanes, I don't know if this is them admitting that they're not going to keep Hamilton, but this is certainly with about whatever five or six weeks to go until free agency opens. This is certainly an intriguing move by Carolina, right? Yeah, definitely.

I think, you know, we just saw some of the stuff from the exit meetings with the hurricanes and there's been a little bit of, you know, conversation around Dougie Hamilton even before this news came out. And I think some of the stuff that I had read, you know, over the weekend, again, before this came out was, you know, of course, when you have a player like this, you want to see them go out and see what they can get, you know, players have the right. That's what you do to get to the point of your career. But I think there was a lot of, lot of people saying, like, why would Dougie Hamilton leave Carolina? Because there's been such a great fit there. We've seen this kind of, I don't, maybe trope about him, quote unquote, overstaying his welcome in different places, maybe not being a fit in different places, and really seeming to fit well in Carolina. So I think it's interesting to see that this is a potential option here. And I really don't know what's going to happen. I think there's going to probably be a lot of teams who are interested in the guy like Dougie Hamilton, especially the way that he's, He's played in Carolina.

I think he's probably up to his, his value a lot, the way that he's looked. So I don't know. I don't know what's going to happen. But this certainly wasn't what I was expecting. You know, the offseason's kind of revving up here. I mean, we still just got the final four for the Stanley Cup. And usually we don't see stuff like this come about when we're still in the middle. We're not even at the Stanley Cup finals yet.

I mean, free agency is still probably about five, six weeks away now. now, July 28th is when it opens. So we're going to have weeks and weeks of Docky Hamilton talk, I would expect. Yeah, I also wonder, like, if more teams should be doing this, if more teams that are not sure that they're able to keep their player, like, it's very rare that you even get to this point. Like, if it's a superstar, you've got them locked up. But if I'm Edmonton right now, if I'm Ken Holland and Edmonton, I got Ryan Nugent Hopkins. Would you not think about just doing the same thing?

say, listen, Ryan, we're willing to offer you five years at whatever. Here's the offer. Go ahead. You want to shop it around? Shop it around. And if you find something better, can you do us a favor? And even if we just get a pick or something, it's a little easier of an extraction process. I wonder.

I'm genuinely curious if we see other free agents get offered the same thing that Dougie Hamilton's been offered. Well, I think the thing with the sign and trade is, I mean, how often do we actually see that happen? Like, talking about a sign and trade is a little bit like talking about offer sheets. Is it not? Like, when was the last time we actually saw this happen and work out? You know what? You know the one I can think of? And it involves the team that you cover.

It's the Calgary Flames got J. Beaumister from, yeah, it would have been Florida. And I think they got them like just before. free agency. They were like, like, and I'd have to go back and look, I want to say it was like

a third round pick and maybe a prospect, but they got something for having like an exclusive negotiating window with them. Yeah. But I, you're right.

Like, I can't think of too many other examples of a sign and trade in the NHL. Like, you're right. It is, it is pretty rare.

But I do think, like, reading between the lines with the insiders because Darren use similar language as well from TSN, I don't think that they would raise the idea of sign and trade if they weren't given a little, like it's the little Easter eggs, right? If Dougie Hamilton was going to test

the waters of free agency, that's what they would say. Dougie Hamilton's going to test the waters. They wouldn't raise this idea of a sign and trade if there maybe wasn't a legitimate thing happening here. So it'll be really interesting. I think it's a, it's kind of a unique maneuver by the team man the player because I think it's going to allow Dougie to test those waters and see if he can get something better and see what other teams are willing to offer him. And he could always go back to the table and just stay in Carolina if he doesn't like what's out there. Or there's a sign and trade. So I think there's a ton of options and obviously a ton of time before this all get sorted out. Yeah. Okay. So sign in trades usually don't happen in the NHL. Offer

sheets don't usually happen in the NHL. You know what else doesn't happen in the NHL? Star players, facing their old team in the Stanley Cup playoffs. Haley, that's what we have, though, starting on Monday night, game one, Vegas and Montreal, Max Patcheretti, former captain and arguably at the time, you know, one of the best players in the last 10, 15 years with the Habs is now a member of the Vegas Golden Knights. I thought this was an unbelievable set.

I think it was my pal Darren Millard, who had this, that the last time the Montreal Canadians played a playoff series against their old captain was against Doug Harvey in like the 1950s or something. So this doesn't happen very often. And I was thinking about this too. Okay, Patcher Ready is going to play the Habs. When is the last time a super superstar player?

And Patcheretti is a star. You can even argue he's not a superstar, but he's a star player. When's the last time we even saw anything of this magnitude where like a star player played his old team in a playoff series. Like I started to look up just active players in the NHL, games played points, who's at the top of the list. And like, you know,

Joe Thornton hasn't played Boston in a playoff series, right? And he hasn't played San Jose in a playoff series. Well, I guess Chara. Chara played Ottawa in 2017. But that wasn't like, but that was like 11 years after, like, That didn't matter. Phil Kessel played Boston. I looked this up in 2013. I don't know if you remember this series, but Toronto played Boston in 2013, Ailey.

What? What? We all love that series, don't we? It's news to me. Yeah, that was one series where like a guy that was kind of a big deal for one team, Kessel in Boston, played his old team. But really, since Wayne Gretzky played Edmonton way back in the day, I'm going to argue, I can't, And I'm having a hard time and I looked it up. Finding star players playing their old team. It just doesn't seem to happen.

Yeah. Well, I mean, Charra did just play against a Bruins with the caps. But I think that storyline. That's what you meant. No, I was talking about 2011. No, but it's fine. We're doing fine. It's Monday.

But that's, that storyline didn't really like materialize the same way. I think it was just like, yep, the Bruins won and move past it and they had a nice hug at the end. You actually just jogged my memory. Zadano Chara has played all of his former teams in the playoffs. When he was with Ottawa in 2003, they would have played the Islanders, his old team. When he was in Boston, they would have played Ottawa, his old team in 2017. And then he was in Washington in 2021, they played his old team.

So wherever, here's my only lock. wherever Zadano Chara plays next year, they got a they got a playoff date with the Washington Capitals. Probably. That's probably a good assumption yet. But I think with Chara, you know, I mean, he was with the Bruins for so long. So it's, it is significant. But I mean, the Pat Reddy situation was like a huge trade.

And the situation, I think, was a little bit different. I agree with you. I think it is really big. But it seems like it's something that we're not really talking about. And when people do talk about it, we're seeing, you know, Pataretti's camp, the HABs. I think everyone's kind of downplaying this. We saw Max Pataretti's agent tweets the other day. This is going to be a storyline that's going to be coming out for the next couple of weeks.

But it's something that both sides have graciously moved on from is, I believe, what his agent tweeted the other day. And that's all fair and cool that everyone's moved on, but it's still a significant story. line. And I think it's really interesting because this is a, and maybe it's maybe the reason why it's a little bit died down is because the way it's played out. I think both sides, I mean, the deal really worked out well for both sides. I mean, Paturetti has done great in Vegas. I think he has 27 points and 30 playoff games of the last three years, which is not insignificant at all. So he's been a really big piece for for Vegas. But then the habs, you know, they got Nick Suzuki. He's a,

he's a rising star for Montreal and Thomas Tatars played really well in his first couple of years in Montreal too. So I think it's probably helped everyone move on from the situation because of how well it's worked out for both sides. But I still think it's an interesting narrative. I think trying to, you know, dye it down a little bit. I mean, it's just because we're media people and we like looking for storylines, but I do think it is pretty significant because, like you said, like he's a star player. He was traded and now he's playing against his former team. It's very interesting.

Yeah. I was really disappointed. Alan Walsh didn't tweet out a picture of Patcheretti with this, with like a hab sword coming through him, knifing him in the back. Then we would have been, it would have been like, game on. Oh, God. I don't know if we're ever going to, like, forget about the sword moment. No, no, we won't. It's a Canadian heritage moment.

Yeah. And now we've got his client there in Mark Andre Fleury playing against the haps. And I think this is really interesting, too, Haley. You look at the four goalies, the four starting goalies that are left standing in the Stanley Cup playoffs. Mark Andre Fleury, Kerry Price, Andre Vazolevsky, Semi, and Varlamov. the one common denominator is they were all drafted in the first round. And I wonder if like, what do you think of that? Do you think like, oh, wow, like maybe that's something we should be paying more attention to.

Maybe teams should be a little bit more open to drafting goalies in the first round. Or do you think, you know what, this is an aberration. There's just as many first round goalies that have flamed out. We shouldn't read anything. This isn't a trend. This is an aberration. Well, I think it is something that you can look into, but I do think that trying to project goalies is so difficult.

You know, even once they've made it to the professional level, it's still really hard to project, you know, what a goalie is going to be in the future. So I think it is, it's, I mean, it's certainly notable that all four of them were first round picks and all four of them have been playing incredibly. I think you could make the argument for all of the teams that the goalie has been, you know, one of, if not the most valuable player on their team. And I think there's probably people who, you know, the goalie fans or the goalie media, the former goalies who are into media now, they're always going to talk about

how the goal attending position is the single most important position on a team. And I think there is a fair argument for that. So should teams be focusing more on drafting and developing goalies in the first round, maybe? But, you know, it's easy to take a snapshot. of this final four and say, look at these goaltenders, teams should be doing this. But like you said, there's probably, there's a lot of goalies who flamed out of the first round.

And I think it's so, again, it's difficult to project and know what a goalie is going to become that I don't know if we're going to have teams just flocking to the goaltenders in the first round just because of, you know, what we're looking at in the playoffs here because there's been some really good goalies picked in later rounds too. So, but maybe that's something to maybe ask around with some people in front offices, because this is a copycat league, like most leagues. So maybe teams will look at that and say, hmm, maybe we should take a closer look at the goaltending prospect here at the 2021 draft. All right, Haley, we're going to give some love to the underdogs on this show, right? Because I think everybody's rolling in and they're like, this is going to be a Vegas, Tampa Stanley Cup final, right?

Isn't that how the hockey world is kind of trending right now? Yep. Definitely. That's the best analysis you've ever had, by the way, Haley. Yep. Yes. Definitely. It's concise.

It's precise. Yeah. Not repetitive. Very good. Okay. Well, listen, let's bring in Arthur Staple. Does a terrific job covering the New York Islanders as we talk about the underdogs. Welcome into the athletic hockey show on this Monday.

Arthur, great to have you back. How are you doing? I'm good. How's everybody doing here? Fantastic. Good. I'm going to keep it. I was going to keep it the one word answers. Yeah. No, this should be a lesson in journalism. Don't ask yes or no questions, Ian. That's right. How are you feeling, Arthur? No. Okay. Okay. So let's start with this because I think for a lot of fans, Arthur, maybe game one of the Stanley Cup semi-final between the Islanders in Tampa,

might have been the first chance a lot of people have seen the Islanders this year, right? they're on the big stage, the national stage. And I'll tell you, I watched most of that game, and it felt like it was clinical. Like it was very methodical, clinical. And if the Islanders could play that game five more times, they're probably going to like where they end up. But is that exactly what we saw from the Islanders in game one?

Is that the Islanders team that you've seen all season long? I mean, it's not the team I've seen all season long. It's the team that they wanted to be all season long. And I don't even think they really got to that place until later in their series. against Pittsburgh and Boston because the teams are so familiar with each other. I think the penguins understood how to attack the Islanders. The Islanders structure wasn't quite as good early in that Pittsburgh series. And the same with Boston.

I think the way that the Bruins attacked them at times in that series throws them off a little bit. Power play was really effective against the Islanders penalty kill, which had been good all year. So I think the Islanders knew what they needed to do against Tampa. and maybe some of the unfamiliarity. I think some of the lightning players did talk about it. They played two playoff series against teams in Florida and Carolina that play a very different style in the Islanders. I don't think that there's a team that plays the way the Islanders do and does it as effectively as the Islanders do that Tampa saw all season. And I'm sure you have to get used to it.

So I think for the Islanders, they were well prepared with their regular season in the tough East Division, two tough playoff series. And I think coming off a really good game six against the Bruins where they did play that way and were really opportunistic. They were ready for this one. And it just looked like the lightning weren't. And you can't be unprepared against the Islanders. You have to have your details ready and be able to attack or else they're just going to take whatever they throw at you and throw it right back in your face. And they certainly did that a lot in the second and third periods. Now, the Islanders, I guess the rush chances were nine nothing for the Islanders last night.

seeing the lightning get shut down off the rush isn't something we typically see. So how is New York, is it weird to call the New York? How were the Islanders able to shut down Tampa's, you know, big guns? You know, I think it started with their forecheck, their forwards were really on top of the lightning defense. And I think, you know, the last time these two teams faced each other in the bubble semifinals last summer, you know, Victor Hedman was really kind of at the peak of his powers, Ryan McDonough, Mikhail Serg. They've got three guys that can eat up, you know, 90% of the game on defense for them. And I think this time around, you can see that Hedman is not 100%.

You know, there was a play in the second period where Matthew Barsall kind of gave him an inside-out move. You never see Hedman give that up. And he wasn't really ranging up in the rush as much. And whether that's due to his physical limitations or the Islanders limiting him, it was noticeable. And I think that's an element that the lightning need to get up on the rush, get that first pass out of the zone. Islanders had a lot of good sticks. They were breaking up outlet passes to create chances, especially Brock Nelson's line with Anthony Beauvillier and Josh Bailey. And I think when they're able to roll their four lines and everybody has an impact on the game,

the Islanders are tough to stop once they get that ball rolling with all their lines. Jean-Gabriel Pazzo's line was really good again. Casey Zizekis's line didn't generate a lot offensively, but was certainly in the offensive zone a lot. And Matthew Bardsal's line was on the ice for both their goals. So when they have that kind of impact, line one through line four, there's not many teams that can match that. You know, I think late in that game, obviously the Lightning got a goal late on the power play, but the goalie pulled. But if the islanders, I guess here's the question. Can the Islanders keep this a five-on-five series? Like, are they able to stay out of the box? Because to me, that's how I think they can win.

And I think they did a pretty effective job in killing the Lightning Power plays. Again, outside of that late goal that they got. Yeah, you know, I think six on four is obviously a different animal, but to have a two-goal lead there, obviously, you know, it was a huge hell. But the one power play, they did give up, you know, that bridge the end of the second into the third period. Islanders really were super effective there. They were standing up at the line, kind of what the lightning were doing to them on the

Islanders early power plays, where the founders looked like they were kind of skating in mud trying to get into the zone. You know, the Islanders penalty kill, like I said, hasn't been great in the playoffs, but they were the fifth rank penalty kill in the league this year. They know what to do on the penalty kill. They've got guys like Adam Pelick and Scott Mayfield, who aren't household names, but do a really good job on the penalty kill.

You know, they've got John Gabriel Pajos, they've got Casey Zizquez guys that can win faceoffs when needed. So, you know, I don't think that they look at any situation and say, we're afraid of this. We're afraid of the lightning power play. I think they, you know, part of their mantra is not too high, not too low. And it comes from the coach and spreads, on out, they don't want to get too hung up on

refs and calls and things like that. And after the whole Bruce Cassidy, New York Saints nonsense that happened in the last round, I think, you know, they feel like maybe the focus will be on that and they don't want to get distracted. And they've been really good at putting aside those kinds of distraction, just going out and playing. And, you know, I think, like you said, in the third period, outside of that late six on four, it looked a lot like how late in a lot of the wins they had against the Bruins looked where they just, they just

wear you down. And I think it, you know, having to go back and get the puck and go 200 feet through a tangle of sticks and bodies. It's hard to do when you're down a goal or two. And I think even a team as good as the lightning saw that you can't be in that position late in the third against them. The New York Saints business was, I mean, just watching from my position was pretty funny. I mean, I didn't quite understand everything he was saying, to be honest. Like, what was the New York Saint? Is that a team? Why was he calling them the Saints? just because that's what they're trying to project. I think he meant that, you know, they were so saintly that no one was going to call penalties on them because they're saintly ways.

There was, it was such an awkward chirp that. Yeah, I didn't get it. It really threw me off. And even the NASA Coliseum crowd, which has been amazing all the way through the playoff run here, I don't even know that they knew what to do with it. There was a guy dressed as the pope in the crowd in game six. to me was the best response, but the whole thing kind of had me scratch in my head that I think, you know, I felt like he was reaching. It was a weird tack to take. And ultimately, it didn't help

Boston very much. Well, this is good because I was just a little bit embarrassed for myself saying on a national podcast that I didn't understand it. But I'm glad that I'm not the only one who was a little bit confused. I thought there was maybe a team called the Saints who were like really nice. I don't know. There happened to be a. an indoor lacrosse team called the New York Saints that played at the Coliseum. So there was a neat little local tie on Long Island, but I doubt that Bruce Cassidy was aware of it. So nice little thing for inside lacrosse fans on the island, but no one else really. Yeah.

And I guess another one from me, and sorry, Ian, you know, the islanders gave up quite a bit to acquire Kyle Palmary this trade deadline, even the year before they gave up quite a bit to get J.G. Pajos. And you mentioned Pajot earlier. What kind of impact are both of these deadline acquisitions having on the Islanders this postseason? I mean, it's been enormous. Pajot, it's followed, they both kind of followed the same pattern too. Pajot right after the trade last year before the pandemic shutdown came, clearly looked like he was uncomfortable and kind of trying too hard to do a million different things. Islanders didn't win in any of their seven games in the regular season. had a break, came back, got the benefit of the return to play training camp, was able to settle himself, had eight goals in their playoff run, and was a real integral part of what they did,

and has now been an integral part of what they've been doing this season. And then Palmary and Travis Ajax, you know, Lou Limerlegg went out and got them. I think it combined three goals for them in 17 games in the regular season. People scratching their heads like, hey, maybe we should have gotten Taylor Hall, maybe we should have explored some other options. and then Palmeri goes out and scores twice in game one against Pittsburgh, including the overtime winner. Zajak didn't start the playoffs as an active player, but came in for Oliver Wallstrom. He has a goal.

He had a big goal in Game 6 against the Bruins and has been super effective in that line. I think it should be the deadline, right? Like those three guys are all their deadline pickups from the last two years, and they've been lights out. They did the job at home on Patrice Bergeron's line, which really torch the Islanders in that series. I'm sure when they're at home for game three against Tampa, you're going to see them a lot against Braden points line. And it's been, you know, Barry Trots and Lou Lamarillo, again, looking like geniuses.

Lou, you know, every time people want to say he's lost his fastball, he picks up a couple of guys or one guy, and they end up having a huge impact. And Palmary, leading them with seven goals and Zajek coming in and playing a big role. You know, they've done it again. You know, Arthur, this is one of the rare times where you actually get a rematch in the conference final, right? Like, this is actually pretty rare. And I'm wondering, like, how much of a motivating factor is that for this group of Islanders guys? I know, as Haley mentioned, Paul Mary

wasn't part of it. But, I mean, they got, if memory serves me, they were down O2 last year in the conference final to Tampa, kind of came back, stayed alive in game five with an overtime win. So they'd probably feel like, ah, you know what? Like, if we just had a better start to that series, maybe we would have been okay. How much of a motivating factor was last year's loss in kind of building this year's identity and then getting to this particular point? You know, I don't know that they look back that much. And I suppose whoever they'd play in the semifinals, they'd feel like it was, you know, just trying to make another step to get towards a Stanley Cup. But I do think the way the series, the last year's semifinals began, where the

Islanders went to a game seven with Philly, won that in Toronto in the bubble, packed up all their stuff after being there for a month, flew to Edmonton, where Tampa had already been for a days after they had won there, you know, beaten Boston in five, I think it was in the second round, you know, flew all day on a day and then went right out and played game one the next day and clearly weren't physically or mentally ready for all that had happened. And it was an eight two game. It was not, it was maybe not even been as close as that. And I think the Islanders felt like it was a little unfair to make them do all that. And the rest of the series was really, you know, a coin toss. They, you know, Tampa went up to two. Oh, like you said,

They won that game two. It was about eight seconds left in regulation to break a one-one tie. And then a couple of overtime games in game five and game six. Brock Nelson has a breakaway at the beginning of overtime in game six. If he converts that, we go to game seven. And I feel like the Islanders like their chances. So I think the only thing that they were trying to recall from last year is we're going to show people that on equal footing when we start this series, people may consider us the underdogs, but we don't feel that way.

And I think they showed it in game one that they kind of put the stink of that game one of last year behind them and reminded everybody that they're here for a reason. It's not a fluke to make the semifinals two years in a row. Maybe people felt like it was a fluke because of the result of that first game last year. But I think they put that to bed now. Okay, Arthur, the last question from me is the one that we see on social media all the time. It's the hot take that everybody loves to throw out with the Islanders. Are they boring? or bad for hockey.

I don't think so. I mean, I think they're leading the playoff teams and goals per game right now. So I don't know how that could be considered boring. And, you know, it is a funny debate. And I have plenty of friends that I've developed over my decade covering this team who are diehard Islander fans who get very upset by that kind of trope that comes out. And sometimes you see it from maybe, you know, some people who are in the day. data community where people do get excited by the Connor McDavid's and the Austin Matthews and the

things they can produce and they can do. But that's just not the nature of the sport. I think the islanders have kind of set a standard these last couple years. You look at a team like the Canadians. They're a younger team and I think their goaltender carries them a bit more. But the way that they try to play is very Islander style. You have to have structure and, you know, create offense from defense and be able to be hard on teams and physical and, you know, all those things that sound like they come from the 70s or 80s, you know, the era that I grew up watching hockey. But really, it's just sort of kind of like a timeless hockey, you know, sport team type of dynamic that if you're not all going in the same direction, you can't win four playoff rounds.

And you need other things. You need luck. You need guys to step forward at different times and all the other cliches. but I don't know how you can call a team boring that's had this level of success, and especially with a team that if anybody was really paying attention a few years ago, completely rode off. They weren't a successful team for a long time when they started to have some success. They went through some changes.

John Tavares leaves, everybody really, you know, including I think some guys on the team who had been teammates with Tavares said, like, okay, now we're just going to kind of rebuild and start from scratch. And Lou Amarillo and Barry Trotz came in and said, nope, we're good enough to compete right away. As long as we play better defense will be good. And I think the buy-in from guys that are longtime NHLers that people had kind of dismissed guys like Josh Bailey,

guys like Matt Martin, Casey Zazikis, you know, Casey Zizkis might be the most coveted free agent coming up on the market. It's not because he's a perennial 40-goal score. It's because he does what he does. So if it's boring, I think people better get used to the idea that a lot of other teams are going to want to get a piece of something boring if these guys actually win a Stanley Cup. Well, like you said, I don't know how a team can lead in goals and be boring. And I think, you know, everything you're saying, it reminds me so much of what I've heard a lot this year with Daryl Sutter coming into Coach to Calgary Flames. And even the other day, I had a conversation with Kirk Muller, who's the new associate coach for the Flames. And we spoke about his mindset and his kind of systems play. And he said it always makes him laugh when people say, like, you're an offensive coach, but you're very defensive minded. And he's like, no, I think that.

that you have to be good on defense so you can get the pucks, you can go and score goals. And, you know, everything you said, it mirrors a lot of the way that I think a team like Calgary wants to play and probably needs to play to be successful because we've seen the attempts to be a run-and-gun team and they can't keep up with the track meets and, you know, just look at what teams are left in the playoffs. The guys that you mentioned who people love to watch, they're not in the playoffs anymore. So I think there's something to be said for that style of play, especially when the postseason comes. Yeah, I mean, you know, I think even the Lightning understood that last year with the guys that they went out and got at the deadline.

They didn't get more scoring. They got guys to shore up their depth, you know, with Barkley Goodrow and Blake Coleman and played a big part in what they did winning the Stanley Cup last year and played a big part and allowing them to have the depth that they needed to get by without Nikita Kutra of in the regular season. And so, you know, it's a copycat league like a lot of pro sports are. And I think if the Islanders are able to win this year or at least continue on, maybe get to a final, I think you're going to see a lot of teams like the flames just if they're starting from scratch or starting over a little bit or trying to realize what they're missing, whether it's Toronto or a Colorado, it's going to be a lot about shoring up your depth, being tougher to play against. and making a lot of people unhappy online. Yeah, that's well said.

Boring. Hey, listen, Arthur, appreciate the visit. This was fantastic. Always great to catch up with you. Best of luck covering the rest of that conference final. And who knows, maybe if the Islanders get into that Stanley Cup final, we can reconnect with you later this month. All right, thanks, guys.

All right, Haley, underdog theme continues here. right we got the islanders we got arthur stapled to chat about them arpin bas who does a terrific job covering the montreal canadians uh for us at the athletic also does the uh the habs podcast uh as well we bring them into the show arpin my man how are you doing i i got to ask you like if i had said to you three weeks ago that we would have you on the athletic hockey show in june you probably would have been thinking it's talking about who's going to be the head coach of the team, yada, yada, yada. At what, like, come on, walk us through how this last three weeks has been from the point of 3-1 Toronto to where we are today.

Well, three weeks ago, if you had said I'd be on the athletic hockey show, I'd be like, finally, the love of God, what does it take to get an invite to this thing for crying out loud? But, yeah, you know what? I've been asked this a lot recently, how shocked are you, all this? I'm not shocked. I'm mildly surprised. I didn't think that they would roll over the Winnipeg Jets the way they did.

But I did think they had a legitimate shot at beating the Mapleys. That 3-1-down, admittedly, did not look very good, especially the way they played in games 3 and 4 at home. They did not look like a good team. So that turnaround to happen that quickly, yes, I was surprised. But going into the series, I think the one thing that a lot of people forgot about the Canadians is what they were thinking about them at the end of the last off-season. like entering the season, what everyone was saying about the Canadians was that this is a team

that's been built for the playoffs, that all the moves that they've made was made for playoff success. Now, the season was such a disaster, but there were tons of mitigating factors impacting that. And frankly, if the Canucks and the flames weren't more of a disaster, the Canadians probably wouldn't have even made the playoffs. So yes, that, you know, I think it's understandable that the way the regular season played out that people would start to doubt the Canadians, but people did forget that the primary focus when they were built in the off season was this time of year. And I think we started to see those elements play out, particularly against the Leafs in that series.

You know, after game four, Eric Stahl stood up and spoke to the team. Corey Perry stood up and spoke to the team. Shea Weber spoke to the team about how rare these opportunities are and it galvanized them. And Carrie Price obviously put them on their back in that series. And what's most interesting for the Canadians is that they didn't need carry price to put them on his back against the Jets. They just outplayed the Jets, period. Price was good, but he wasn't the only thing that was going for the Canadians.

So, you know, yeah, I'd be surprised three weeks ago at 3-1 down, but again, I think we're seeing a lot of the things that the Canadians envisioned when they went about their off-season last year playing out in real time in these playoffs. Well, I think it's interesting and at some point that was raised in your playoff notebook that went up this morning here on the athletics. was, you know, everyone loves the underdog story, but the Canadians are not a typical underdog, are they? No.

No, they're very hateable, actually. So that's the thing is that they, you know, they're the oldest franchise in the league. They have the most Stanley Cups, and they won't let you forget about it. Like, they won't let, they will remind you of that constantly, which is what makes them not an endearing underdog story. But they are the underdog. And I think the fact that no one has latched, well, not no one, but the bandwagon is not overflowing with non-Canadians fans, let's say.

And I think they revel in that, you know, and so I looked for some sort of like an academic slant on it. And I found this professor at the Wharton School at Penn, who's done tons of research on this subject and looked into the elements of how workplaces sort of embrace the underwaters. the underdog role and embrace external doubt in their ability to accomplish a task or to perform at a certain level. And the Canadians are, I think, a bunch of them. One of them being that challenging the credibility of the people who are having these doubts on them. And, you know, you hear Mark Virgin may go on a rant all of a sudden about how everyone was saying the North Division was the worst division.

And him stating the opposite and raised some valid points, I think. you know, the most travel in the league, superstar power. The fact that Ottawa, you know, halfway through the season, became a very difficult doubt and had a strong record over the second half. So there were no real easy games in the division, unlike the Pacific Division, where you did have, you know, the ducks and yet a few games where it wasn't as difficult as it normally would be. So, but I found it interesting that he made a point of doing that.

And then all on his own said, you know, Vegas is the best team in the league or one of the two best teams. They just knocked out the avalanche. We're the huge underdogs and we don't care. And no one even asked him about it. So it seems like they're embracing this role and they kind of like the fact that that no one's jumping on board with them. You know, Dominic Dusharme has the interim tag on him as head coach. Is that, is it safe to remove that now by getting to the final four Arpin or is there still a possibility if they go out against Vegas and it's a meek performance that maybe they'll reevaluate that in the offseason? No, I think it's pretty safe to say he'll be back.

And I think it was even safe to say he'd be back at 3-1 down against the least just because of the way that the players have responded to him. I mean, the way that the regular season went from the time Clodulin was fired to the time that the regular season ended was obviously terrible. There were a below 500 team. They squeaked into the playoffs on the second to last game of the season, basically, is when they clinched their spot. So it didn't seem, but when you listen to the players talk and listen, we've all spoken to enough hockey players, they don't necessarily go out of their way to praise the system unless they believe in it.

You know, it's not something that they're going to slam their coach. Players don't do that, not publicly at least, or on the record. But it's rare that you hear, you know, when you ask questions to players about what's going wrong and they say, well, if we just stick to the system, then I think we're going to have success because we're not really executing. what's being asked of us, and you hear that over and over and over again from various players, different players, it's a sign that the coach has some respect. And another sign I picked up recently is how often you hear Canadian players say, oh, as Dom says, and they'll repeat one of his sayings that he says to the team. And that's, again, unprovoked, all on their own, quoting their coach.

And you don't do that with a coach that you don't respect. So I think what complicated the Dominique Ducharm interim situation was Mark Bergerna's situation. And that remains to be seen what happens. He has one year left on his contract. Obviously, his offseason plan has worked to date. But we don't really know what's going to happen there. There's reason to believe that maybe at some point the two sides will decide, you know, it's been long enough. He's been here for nine years.

It'll be 10 if he finishes his contract. But I think what this has done is it's detached Dusham's future from Bergeriv's future. Whatever happens with Mark Bourgeois, I think Dominic Dusharmer is staying. And that's a result of this playoff run. And I would love to maybe just get into Carrie Price a little bit because I just think it's so interesting. And I saw, I think it was Paul Byron's quote, you know, there's not many players in the league who don't think that Carrie Price, you know, can win you a game at any given time. And, you know, we do these player polls all the time, the anonymous player polls. And usually, even if Carrie Price is playing poorly, like there's been seasons where Carrie Price,

Price has been in a really bad stretch or he hasn't looked very good. And then we do the player pull and it's game seven Stanley Cup final, who do you want? And Carrie Price always wins. So, you know, there was a real kind of reputation versus reality play going on for a little while. I think it was last season. He didn't have a great year.

But we're kind of seeing that reputation, you know, become the reality here in this playoff series. Is that kind of an accurate way to look at it? Well, I mean, the accurate way to look at it is that regular season carry price and playoff carry price are two different players. I mean, it's really striking. You look over the last 10 years, I haven't actually looked it up since they beat the Jets, but he has one of the top playoffs safe percentages in hockey over the last decade. So over 40 plus playoff games. But the problem is that over that same span, he hasn't played in the playoffs as often as he should have because he hasn't been that great in the regular season.

and he goes through stretches where he's flat out not good. And so, you know, that's not ideal. But it doesn't, it validates what the player pool says because if you want to win a game among the goalie pool that's out there right now, he's the guy. And, you know, last year when the return to play formula was released, the Pittsburgh Penguins were a legitimate Stanley Cup contender, they end up drawing the Canadians

and what bothers them about it is that they have to face Carrie Price in the preliminary round. And then what happens? Carey Price basically eliminates them. He had like a 945 save percentage in that series and they were out in four games. So you're right. There is a reputation reality thing going on. But the reality is that Carrie Price will not necessarily be a horse all season. But when it matters, he's a guy that you want in your net.

And that Leafs series, he got in the Leafs heads at a certain point. You saw how many times they missed the net, how many times they hit the post. It was all because they were trying to be too fine. And Carrie Price has a tendency to do that to shooters. My dad's a, sorry, and I keep doing this to you. I'll go ahead. You have some great story about your dad. This better be good.

This better be good. It's good. My dad is a big Leafs fan. I think I've said this on the podcast before. And when he saw that the leaves were playing the habs, he was like, oh, crap, Carrie Price is going to ruin this for me. He just knew game one. He was like, nope, we're not making it anywhere.

It's done. We're done. It's Carrie Price. So he got in my dad's head too. Oh, that's the story? Yeah. Your dad thinks Carrie Price is good. Wow, thanks for.

Put it on a headline. Put it on the headline. I think that's interesting. Hey, Haley, you raised the bar really high on that story. I love it. Look at her. Good story. I liked it, Haley.

as the first time visitor, I enjoyed it. Chris, we can just cut that out, okay? We'll just cut that out. It doesn't need to make the podcast. Okay, because I got a story about my dad. My dad and my mom are flying to Vegas for game two of this series. My dad is such a huge Habs fan. They live in the States.

They're flying to Vegas for game two. Oh, wow. So there you go. You just had to one at me. They got tickets? Yeah, they went stub hub. And yeah, they're going to game two. That's awesome.

Wow. I wish I could go to game two. I wish I could go to game one, but I cannot. I'm in Niagara, and there's a pedestrian bridge to the states, and I've like, want to run across it. Just stay there for a while. I think my passport expired, though, so. Okay.

Hey, speaking to Niagara, this is a great way to wrap this conversation up with you, Arpin, because this weekend Niagara Falls lit up in the red, white, and blue, the Montreal Canadians. This coming on the heels of the CN Tower in Toronto, also lighting up in the blue-blanc and rouge. So here's the question. Okay. How does Haley's dad feel about it?

Yeah. That's the real question. Exactly. How does he feel about it? No, in all honesty, what should the reaction be of, I guess Sabres fans are probably in that Niagara region. Toronto fans are there and obviously in Toronto.

Should fans in Ontario be offended that these national landmarks, are lighting up Arpit and the colors of the Montreal Canadians? Yes, I think they should. CN Tower is a national landmark of making little quotation marks with my fingers, but it is emblematic of Toronto. That is how the city of Toronto is defined around the world. Anyone looks at the CN Tower, they don't immediately say Canada.

They say Toronto. That's what it's attached to. Maybe some people would say Canada, actually. But still, the point being, the one symbol of, the city of Toronto that is the most recognized symbol of that city lighting up in Canadian's colors, if I were a least fan who lived in Toronto, I would find that offensive, especially on the heels of what happened. I would find Niagara Falls, whatever, you know, I mean, it's, yeah, it's, that's just kind of, that's kind of gravy on top of the sea and tower doing that.

But yeah, if I was the least fan in Toronto, I would look at that and I would, I would be quite disgusted by it. If it was reversed, would there be like a monument? in Montreal or Quebec, that would go Toronto colors? Never in a million years would that happen, ever. Like the only thing we have in Montreal, we don't have anything. The only thing we have is the stupid Olympic Tower, which we lighten, which we put in colors and stuff. And never would that be blue and white after a leaf swim, unless it was a bed attached,

like unless the mayor made a bet. Because that was also on top of the CN Tower was John Torrey putting the Canadians flag above City Hall. Then it was Niagara Falls. So it was just like, boom, boom, boom. Like, it was like, as if it wasn't bad enough, the leaves were eliminated. You have all these things happening all over Ontario. The most recognizable things with Ontario being lit up either with a flag or with lights.

But yeah, that never would happen in Montreal. The only thing that got lit up by the habs in Ontario was Jack Campbell. Ouch. Ann. Oh, man. Poor Jack. Rest. I thought he was pretty adult.

Yeah, he's still alive. He actually, he did survive the series, Haley. I'm sorry. All right. Hey. I stopped myself. Hey, what's the, as we do wrap this up, what's the fan capacity? I know they had about 2,500 for that last series against Winnipeg.

Bell Center, any chance, Arpin, that they might get some more fans in for this round against Vegas? Yeah, well, the public health department did release a statement saying the Canadians have made that request. They're looking into it right now. I don't see why they couldn't get 5,000 in the building. I mean, the protocols in place seemed to run pretty smoothly. They were very orderly in terms of how they left the building. And then on top of it, outside the building, there's like a super spreader event going on with like people jamming the streets and no masks and people like right next to each other. So if you're going to allow that, then I think lighting 5,000 in the building would probably be reasonable, especially the way they do it.

They stagger the way, you know, people have specific times when they're supposed to arrive. They stagger the arrival. They stagger the departure. No concessions. There's all sorts of protections in place. I don't see why they couldn't go to 5,000, but we're waiting on public health for their determination on that. Well, hey, listen, we know that you'll be in the building for games three and four of that series.

Appreciate the visit. This was great having you, and good luck covering the rest of that, or the start of that, Vegas. I don't like the 9 o'clock Eastern Time Start, by the way. Can I just have my old man rant here? I don't like the 9 o'clock start. Got to let people at Vegas leave work and get to the game, man. I mean, come on. It's a minimum.

I love it. All right. Well, listen, enjoy the series and thanks for doing this. All right. Thanks for having me, guys. I feel so honored. Thank you. All right.

Great to have back-to-back visits from Arthur Staple and Arpin Basu. And I guess, Haley, we got to clear the air here. Because I feel some tension over the dad part of the conversation with Arpin there. I feel like I owe you an apology. I think you're legitimately sour that I mocked to you there. Well, it was so uncalled for. It was a personal anecdote. You always dunk on me.

Every single episode. You talk about me wearing cargo shorts or whatever. And the one time, the only time that's made a joke, the one time I say, I mock you, you're like, wow, I can't believe you would go down that road. Oh, my stars. Yeah, like clutched my pearls. I'm very upset. I'm now in a fight with you and Sean McIndoo. It's Haley versus the athletic hockey show. I'm going to just start stirring up drama with Corey Pranman and Max Boltman now since they're also on the show. I'm not a huge fan of Sean John Tilly. Craig Custins is fine. This is going to turn into a reality show or something. like who's Haley fighting with this week and just stirring it up. And you know what? It's going to show who actually listens to our show because a lot of those people probably won't even know that I just called them out.

Right. Because they probably don't listen. So I'm just going to say whatever I want next week. I love it. I love it. All right. Hey, listen, as we always do, Haley, we're going to wrap up with a little multiple choice madness here to kick off the week.

So we've got three questions here for multiple choice madness. Let me start with this question. Haley, I've got to give you a choice. You're going to start a team and you get a choice. You can either have a $10 million a year superstar player on your roster or B, a $5 million a year head coach. What would you rather have? A $10 million a year superstar or basically the highest end coach you could get?

It's such a tough one because if you have a really high end coach but you don't have the players, can the coach actually get them to work? And if you have the superstar, but you don't have anything else and you don't have a good coach, like this is a, it's a really interesting conversation. It would be something that would be great to hash out, you know, in a big debate or just, you know, I think that would be a great story too if someone were to look at that. I'm just thinking, you know, with the Canadians and we talked to Arpin, I mean,

Carrie Price is showing how great it is to have, you know, really experienced. Superstar. And I don't know what Barry Trots' salary is, but, you know, with Arthur, we're seeing how great it is to have a really good coach and really good systems in the player buy-in. So this is a tough one for me. I might be going with the coach because you still have the salary cap. And if you have a really good coach, you can probably entice players to come and play for your coach who has the great reputation.

So I'm going to say the $5 million a year. head coach. I thought you were going to say, can I have both? Like, can I has both? Yeah. But it is fun. Like, it is true. Like, if you looked at it and you would say like, like, Barry Trots is in that neighborhood, right? You'd say like, like, wow, look at what Barry Trots is doing. And then look at the flip side would be like a guy like Jack Eichol, right? Where you're like, man, like that guy's making 10 million. And I think at this stage of the game, you would say for sure, you would take trots over Eichol to improve your team. I think, right? Wouldn't you? Like, if you, right now, if you just look at the success and the body's work.

I think you would. Yeah. Like that's how I feel. I feel like if you looked at this and we just changed the question and said, would you wrap next year, you need to improve your team. You could either have Jack Eichl or Barry Trots. Who would you take? I feel like most people would take Barry Trots, no?

Oh, I think it would probably depend, like, what team you're talking about, right? I think that answer would be very different if you were like whatever fan base you're rooting for. I think there's teams who probably think that they have a good coach, but they're a Jack Eichel away from winning. And there's probably teams who are like, we've got the players, we just need a coach. So I think it's a very situational kind of question. Yeah.

I mean, it's a really interesting one. I would, I lean towards Barry Trots, though. But I think, you know, if you're the Calgary Flames and you have Daryl Sutter behind the bench and you have all these, you know, you have some good pieces already. I'm sure a lot of Flames fans might say, give me Jack Eichel.

Yeah. Okay. On to question number two, and that is the Boston Bruins season ended last week, as we talked with Arthur Staple. It was with Bruce Cassidy in that press conference. But the season ended for Boston, and now they got some decisions, right? Like Tuka Rask is going to have hip surgery. He's going to miss the start next season. But Rask is a free agent, Haley, David Crachy's a free agent, Taylor Hall is a free agent?

Here's my question. Which one of these pending UFA is going to end up resigning with the Bruins this summer? is in A, David C. C. Tuka Rask. C. Taylor Hall. D, all of them. Or E, none of them. So listen, I'll go first. And, boy, I find it interesting, Haley.

I don't know what you think about the way that Tuka Rask is perceived in Boston. But for a guy with a pretty good resume who's been to a Stanley Cup final and has been a pretty good goalie in his time as a starter, he seems to take a lot of heat in that market. it. And I just feel like, man, I don't know. Dave Craachie's at an interesting point. I looked at his comments and I think that's a guy who wants to stay in Boston and would be willing to take a little less. And then Taylor Hall becomes the interesting conundrum too. Like, I'm looking at this and I'm, but I'm saying if I'm Boston, I feel like I need to change some things up in Boston. Like I don't

want to say it's getting stale. I just feel like maybe that core is getting old. So I think maybe you you focus on Taylor Hall and bringing them back. So I'm going to say if I'm Boston, I think I should prioritize bringing Taylor Hall back and then go from there. What about you? Yeah, I think I probably agree with you. I think that, and especially with Hall's comments saying

he wants to prioritize fit over money is very interesting because I think we saw that there was a good fit there. I think a lot of people were kind of playing the, I told you so game, the ones who said, like, I can't believe Taylor Hall went this cheap, and I can't believe people were saying he was washed. Look at how good he's been in Boston. So I think if you're the Bruins and I think if you're Taylor Hall, you saw what he was able to do after having a significantly down season with the Buffalo Sabres and what he did

after that trade. So I think Taylor Hall is probably the starting point. I do think it's kind of interesting. I saw some people like going at Toronto Maple Leafs or, oh, I wonder if the Leaf Stars would have done this. And it's like, Taylor Hall's coming off of an $8 million contract. Like, it's not like he's been signing for cheap for his whole life. Like, let's take it easy. He's saying fit over money after making it was seven times six million and then one times eight million. So he's still been able to cash some checks. But I think, you know, I'm not going to

say all of them because I just don't know if I see a situation where they're able to get David Krati, Tuka, Rask, and Taylor Hall all signed. And, I mean, people have been speculating about Jack Eichel to the Bruins because they could sneak that cap hit under. So I think if you lock all three of these UFAs in, you're taking a significant amount of the cap away from any potential other moves. So if I had to pick one, I would say Taylor Hall as well. Yeah, I think so too.

I think I tend to agree with everything you just said there. Okay, last question, multiple choice madness. We just talked about the Buffalo Sabres, and they're up first, Haley. They'll have the first pick overall. A lot of people think Owen Power is potentially the guy that could go first overall. But last week, Owen Power, basically strongly hinting he's going to go back and play another season in the NCAA. They want to stay in Michigan. So here's my question.

Should Sabres fans be worried that Owen Power wants to stay in college for another year? Your options are, A, yes, this is Owen Powers way of saying maybe he doesn't want to go to Buffalo or B, no, don't. This is being overblown. This is probably the smartest route for a young defenseman. What do you think, Haley? How should we read into Owen Powers saying he's going back to play even if he's the first pick overall? I think it's overblown. I think people are probably looking for storylines or ways to pile on to the Buffalo Sabres.

You know, it's not a unique thing for a young player to go back for another year. year of college, even if they are the number one pick or the number two pick wherever he may fall. I mean, he is the likely number one pick, but I think there's a ton of benefits for a young player going back to college. We've seen in recent years a lot of top defense prospects going back for an extra year to just dominate the college level, because power didn't really get to dominate. You know, he had, where is it here? Sorry, he had three goals and 16 points in 26 games. as a freshman. He had a three-point game in his debut. And he was a big 10 freshman team, all big 10 second team. So he didn't get to go in and just dominate as a freshman. And I think

there is benefits for a player being able to go in in his second year and just, again, really dominate in the NCAA. Kail McCar, Quinn Hughes, Zach Wrenski, and Charlie McAvoy all did that. So going and doing that for a second year, we'll probably be able to help them hit the ground run. at the NHL level. So I think if you're Sabres fan and you assume that they're going to take Owen power, I think this is something that you should be excited about because then you're going to be having a more mature and a more ready player. It'll just be a year after.

Yeah. You know what? I couldn't agree with you more. And I love your example of Kail McCarar, right? Because in McCar, when he came in that playoff run with the avalanche, like he hit the ground running and hasn't looked back, right? So why would you force feed a teenager in arguably the toughest position? Well, I guess goal.

Sorry, goalie is the toughest position to break into. But I think being a teenage defenseman is really hard. So hard. Like, why would you like shoehorn a guy in just to be like, here's our first overall pick? Like, let him go back. No one's expecting the Sabres to be good next year. So let him breathe, right? Like, that's what I think.

Because you're either going to be putting him on the first pair and he's going to get caved in. It's going to affect his confidence. Or you're going to try to hide him on the third pair. But then he's a third pair getting barely any minutes, probably no special. teams, which is also going to impact his confidence. So rushing him in is, you know, it could work. Maybe he's ready and he's incredible. And he's your top pair defenseman with whoever, I don't know, not your number one D, but maybe he's your number two. He's on the top pair and he's playing great. But why risk it? Just let him, let him be ready. Yeah. Couldn't agree more. All right, we'll leave it

there, Haley. Hopefully our awkward fight in the middle of this show has blown over. And you can, You can have a good week coming up and you're not going to be thinking about. You've been very agreeable for my last two answers. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Have you noticed me just pouring it on thick? Oh, Haley, I couldn't agree with you more. Incredible analysis.

Incredible. I just want to leave you on a high note. You're like, you know, that guy's nice instead of going, think it back to the middle of the show when I just carved you. Yeah. And also when you asked me the yes or no question, I said yes. And you were like, excellent analysis. Yeah.

What do you want me to say? Oh, exactly. All right. Well, listen, have a great week. Enjoy the final four. And we'll do this again next Monday. Thank you. It probably makes it even more awkward on the podcast because we can see each other and you can see the subtle moves or the facial expressions I make. But when you're listening, people listening are probably like, she's so cold and mean. I'm not. Thank you so much, Ian. I can't wait for next Monday. There you go. Well said. All right. And coming up all week, reminder, the athletic hockey show. It's five days a week. All the Haley's arch enemies have their own shows. That includes Craig Custin, Sean Jinn, Tilly.

They're back to call themselves teaming USA. They got a Tuesday edition on Tuesday. That's why it's the Tuesday edition of the Athletic Hockey show. They'll be able to break down game one of the Vegas Golden Knights and the Montreal Canadiens. Wednesday it's Burnside LeBrun, the two-man advantage edition of the show. I'll be back with Down Goes Brown. On Thursday, and as Haley mentioned earlier, Max Bolton, Corey Proudman, brand new prospect series of the show.

every Friday. Huge thanks for listening today. Please subscribe on your favorite podcast platform. Leave a rating review. We certainly appreciate that. And if you are not a subscriber with The Athletic, you can get a subscription

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