The Athletic Hockey Show - NHL goal scoring per game the highest in 25 years, NHL GM Meetings recap and Rob Lehner quits twitter

Episode Date: March 30, 2022

Julian McKenzie pinch hits for Rob Pizzo who is celebrating the birth of his daughter Charlotte and Jesse Granger returns to the roundtable with Sara Civian on assignment.  The boys discuss NHL goal scoring at a 25 year high this season, and why we are seeing more goals scored this year. We tap our stick for the job rookie coach Martin St. Louis is doing in Montreal, the struggles of the forever playoff bound Vegas Golden Knights and Robin Lehner deciding to quit twitter.Julian and Jesse welcome Michael Russo and Pierre Lebrun from Florida for a recap on the General Manager meetings, including their thoughts on LTIR, a possible playoff salary cap, the return of the World Cup and more transparency when it comes to no trade lists.Plus, Julian and Jesse ask for your favorite NHL player product endorsements in another edition of the roundtable twitter segment. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

My name is Julian McKenzie, and I am filling in for Rob Pizzo this week on the athletic hockey show, the Wednesday Roundtable Edition. Jesse Granger, who's normally in Vegas, is in Seattle right now, but he's also on Zoom with me for the podcast. Sarah Sivian is normally here, but as I understand, she is in Tampa Bay doing some fun journalism activities interviewing Mikhail Sirkichov. So for now, because we're expecting to see Sivvy at some point later. on. Jesse, it is you and I to start off the Wednesday roundtable. How are you doing my man? I'm doing great. First time in Seattle. It's the Golden Knights first time in Seattle. They've got two games here, so I kind of get to settle in. I'm here for four or five days in Seattle, enjoying it so far, get to see the new arena tonight. I'm in a good mood. That's awesome.

So yeah, you mentioned the first time for the Golden Knights in Seattle, the battle of the two most recent expansion teams in the NHL, both of them in some really interesting situations. this year, obviously the Cracken, they're not going to make the playoffs. The Vegas Golden Nights, could they miss out on the playoffs? That's something I definitely want to ask you about on top of some other tidbits we've heard from the GM meetings in Florida, which I should also mention later on in the show. We're going to hear from Pierre LeBron and Michael Russo, who are in Florida, kind of jealous of them because they're in a much warmer place than I am right now and maybe a bit in Seattle

as well. I imagine it's a bit more jury and rainy over there. But they're going to give us what they've heard. from the GMs in Florida, and we'll discuss some of the topics that they've mentioned as well. But also, I want to get to some other topics like the fact that goals per game, Jesse, the highest it's ever been in the NHL since 95, 1996. And again, with the Vegas Golden Knights. And when we get Sivvy in here, I'll ask her about the Cains and Bolt's game and a few other topics we'll try to get to on the Wednesday edition. I'd like to start if we can with that goals per game stat.

So I was looking at hockey reference before we got on air today. In the NHL, in every game so far, if you average it down, 3.11 goals per game. That is the most we have seen in the NHL since 95, 96, where it was just a little bit higher. And it seems as if almost every year over the last few years in the salary cap era, we have seen more goals go in. I was watching Florida, Montreal on Tuesday night. And that game ended 7 to 4, Jesse. Seven to four for the Florida Panthers. Remember, they're up against a team that's supposed to be, you know,

not saying, not amounting to much, but they still scored four times. They came back from a 4-1 deficit. Jesse, help me understand why everyone's scoring all these goals all of a sudden. Yeah, it's crazy. And the Panthers, I was looking at it the other day. They're the highest scoring team, like individually, since I think 94-95, it was the penguins. It was the penguins with Lemieux and everybody. And that was the last time a team has scored, has averaged more than four goals a game.

And Florida is obviously averaging that this season. It's pretty impressive. Colorado's up there too, I think one of the highest scoring teams in the last like 20 years. It's, it's interesting. I mean, I think the, the goaltending has gotten so good over the past, like, decade. And the goalies, I mean, when when goalies started going to the butterfly, and then perfected it. It just shut down goals. Like these, you just can't score unless it's a high danger chance

and you're picking the corners. And I think maybe it's a case of these players are getting better at score. Like the goalies were ahead of the players. We're like ahead of the curve. And now the players are starting to catch up and find out how to beat these goalies. It's interesting. I honestly,

I don't have a reason for it. It's not like there was a major rule change recently that, like, I mean, back when they took away the two-line pass, it's like, okay, that would be easy to point to say, okay, that's why they're scoring now when they moved the blue lines in and then opened up a little more room to work in the offensive zone. That was a reason. I don't see a reason to point two directly, but I would say that I think the forwards are, the scorers in this league are getting more creative. Obviously, you point to Zegris and stuff like that, but I think not quite, it doesn't have to be that, that innovative. It can just be small little differences that these forwards are now getting, like I said, they're catching up to the goalies and then finding ways to score on them more often.

What do you think? Is it just the forwards? I was looking at yesterday, like, the top three goals scores on defense. And you see, like, Caleb McCar, obviously, flirting with 25 goals. Victor Hedman scored and he's got 19. Roman Yossi, who may have the most underrated season of anyone in the national hockey league. I'm talking for the Norris. I'm talking even for the Hart Trophy, has 18.

And he leads all defensemen in points. Like, these guys are flirting with 20 goal seasons. as defensemen. Like, I think the fact that forwards are in, like, I mean, I think teams as a whole are starting to embrace their guys,

having more skill and letting them use it to their advantage. But we're starting to see defensemen as well, also embrace that as well. Like if you have your offense coming from some of your best defensive players, that's usually a good thing if you're a successful hockey club. And I think that also has to play a role into this as well. Like, this is,

this is insane to see a guy like Keal McCar, Like, he could end the season with like 30 goals. We were talking about him possibly hitting 40 goals at some point this year. Like, it's, it's, I think it has something to do with the fact that teams now realize that, you know, skill is the way to go. It sells the product. And not to mention, it helps put put pucks in the back of opposing teams nets. Like, that has to be a huge reason because I can't think of any other significant rule change that has taken place that has allowed this. So this is really just cool to see as just like a hockey fan.

I completely agree. And I think you're definitely on the right track in terms of the defensemen are more offensive than they have ever been in the history of the league. And the bottom line players. Like if I forgot, man, I wish I could remember who tweeted out so I could give them credit. But someone tweeted out a graph the other day showing dump ins versus carrying the puck into the zone. And it's like as the league as a whole has shifted more towards carrying it in. And this person said that the reasoning for that is fourth line guys, not that long ago, where you're going to dump it in and you're going to hit somebody.

And then if you want to fight, fight them. And now you're seeing more and more that these fourth line, third line players are not that. They are, they're just less talented versions of the first line players. Like they're not as good as the first line guys, but their games are similar. They're offensive-minded. They're skilled offensively. They're going out there trying to score. And I think you're right.

I think that has a big, it's not so much the upper echelon players are scoring more. It's the bottom players are more offensive. And the defensemen, there are more and more offensive guys. I think you're definitely on the right track with that. Yeah, I think if you're an NHL coach now and you are able to put together a roster where fine, you can still have your bottom line guys be, you know, good checkers and be able to hem in opposing teams in their own zone if you need to. But they're able to chip in with a goal every other night.

Like I think of a guy like Arturie Lekinen who is having him, himself a pretty good year. He was in Montreal against trades of Colorado. That's a guy I think of who is able to do all the little things and he's able to contribute with secondary scoring. The league needs, like teams need more players like that as opposed to just putting a plug on the fourth line who he's probably getting in the season with like two, three goals and he's really just there to fight. I mean, there was a time where fighting was needed in the NHL. Now, why put a guy like that in when that four-flying player, whether it's an HL tweener or someone else who may be a little older in their NHL career and is playing in a reduced role, could still contribute to

score. At the end of the day, like, you don't win a game by how many more fights or how many more checks you get. It's how many goals you score. So, again, a pleasant surprise to see that goals have gone up in terms of goals per game over the last few years. It is to our benefit. How will that change in the play?

playoffs, though. That is a very interesting question, which I'm not sure we have the time for or have enough foresight to see because we know the game completely changes in the playoffs. I just want to give a shout out, though, because in that Florida-Montreal game, the Montreal Canadiens try to do as well as they can, even though they're going to be last place. I know Kent Hughes of the Montreal Canadians, the GM in Florida for the meetings. I think he acknowledged he wants to remove that interim tag off of Martin Saint-Louis, who's the interim head coach of Montreal Canadian's right now. Being in Montreal, obviously, I obviously get to see Martin-San-Loy I've asked them questions before. A lot of people are still kind of like, oh, wow, like Martin-S-Louis

like head coach. What's the perception outside of Montreal? In your vantage point, and I know you're in the Western Conference, but like, how, for what you've seen just in terms of talking to other people, like, how do people feel about the fact that Martin St. Louis, who is literally coaching like Pee-Wee Kids, is now an NHL head coach. even if it's with the interim tag for now. Yeah, I mean, I think, I don't think people hold that against him as much. I think, like, we've seen in all sports, like, sometimes guys are just good leaders. And, like, I think of basketball, like, Steve Kerr didn't come up through the rankings.

He just, they just kind of threw him in, like, coach the Golden State Warriors. Like, you were a good player. You were good on TV. We'll just, and some people just have that ability to lead guys. And I think there are plenty of players. that have the ability to coach, that understand that side of things. And maybe they don't need to go up through the ranks.

I do think that there are going to be situations. Like, I'll say this. I think his staff needs to be super experienced. You can't have, like, his assistant coaches have to have tons of coaching experience, maybe even a former head coach on his staff just to, because there are going to be situations that he just doesn't under, like he's never been in that situation. He doesn't know how a coach handles that.

So I think, I think an experienced staff would be important. Yeah, the perception, I think he can handle it. And I think the outside perception is he's going to be judged on how this team performs and not so much his resume prior to getting the job. Okay. So I had to give that quick little tidbit out there to Martin Saint-Louis and the Canadians. Me being the Montreal guy, I did not want to inundate the podcast with nothing but Montreal stuff. I get it. I'm just filling in for Rob.

I don't want to just take over the show completely. I do, however, want to spend some time on the Vegas Golden Knights. This is a team at the beginning of the year. I thought, all right, they're going to the playoffs again. Maybe they have a run in them to the Stanley Cup final. Then they eventually find a way to get Jack Eichol. And everyone's like, wow, they have the team that they have and they get Jack Eichol. Like, there's no way they don't make a deep run to the Stanley Cup final.

They've been battling injuries since. Well, pretty much throughout the year anyway. I think I remember when you were in Montreal, we were watching Vegas. Vegas in Montreal. You were saying like one of those games, either that game or another game, it was one of the few times they didn't have to deal with some injured player coming up for a game. Like, it's insane what they've had to go through to this point. And now they find themselves, as we're recording this, on the outside looking in when it comes to a wildcard spot in the Western conference. And it's very possible that for the first time in their young existence, they could miss the playoffs.

Jesse, if you can, can he take the temperature of what's going on in Vegas with the Golden Knights? Tell us all we need to know about what's going on. Why are they in this position? Yeah, I mean, it's easy to point to the injuries. And the players and Pete DeBore say every day, oh, we're not going to use the injuries an excuse. But like, they've missed pretty much everyone all season long. Like Max Patch Ready has barely been on the ice. He's been their leading goal score for the last two, three years.

Mark Stone's the best player on the team, he's barely played. he's been missing for quite some time. During this stretch, obviously they brought Eichol off LTIR. Stone went on LTIR with his back injury that has been bothering him since before this season, even in the playoffs against Montreal last year, like his back has been bothering him. He just happened to get a fix.

So this team, not only does Mark, not only is Stone the best player on the team, he is this team. Like he's the captain and he is the, he is the engine that makes them run. He's the heartbeat of the team. All those cliches you want to say, that is Mark Stone, and I think they're really missing that in the locker room.

And I think they're also missing Robin Lennar. Like early in the year, the Golden Knights had a bunch of injuries. Stone and Patch Ready and William Carlson was out. But Robin Lennar was playing some excellent hockey at that time, and he was holding the team in games that they didn't deserve to be in. That Montreal game is a perfect example. Like Montreal was killing the Golden Knights in that game. But Lennar held him in it, held them in it.

And then they finally got some goals, and they came back and got some points in that game. And that's kind of how they survived early in the season. Now, Robin Lenners out. Lorenzois, the backup goalie, is also out. So they're down to their third string goalie. Logan Thompson, he's actually been very good, but the scoring has really dried up. I think their depth players were able to fill in that scoring early in the year.

They were getting major contributions from guys like Nick Waugh that maybe weren't expected to score a lot of goals. He has a career high in goals this season. And I think they were able to survive it for a certain, extent and then eventually like you can't that doesn't work for 82 games and I think the injuries are finally catching up to him and I

also think aside from the injuries the injuries have also created a separate issue in that this team just has no chemistry there's no cohesion on the ice and the reason is because whenever they get a guy back another guy goes out the lines change their defensive pairs change and it's been happening every single

night for 69 games so my God they don't have cohesion they play against a team like Calgary a team like LA, the teams in the Pacific that they're competing for a playoff spot with. And I see a team in the Kings or in the flames that they're in mid-season form. They are clicking. Everyone knows where everyone on the ice is. Their team game is in such a good place. And they're ramping up for the playoffs. Well, and then you look at the Golden Knights

and it's like, all right, Jack Eichel is playing with Nick Waugh and Evgeny Doddanov tonight. He's never played a minute of hockey with these two in his life. And then the next game, he's got two new linemates. And then the next game, it's like, The injuries themselves have hurt this team, but I think the side effect and this team just not being able to build chemistry and cohesion is really what's killing them right now. They're playing against teams that are playing their best hockey and the Golden Knights are playing far from it. So it's going to take a big run here. They've won a couple in a row now. They're trying to get on a roll.

They're probably going to have to win 10 or 11 of their last 15 games, which is going to be, that's a lot better than the pace they've been on recently. So right now it's looking like if I had to guess, I would guess the Golden Knights don't make the playoffs. But they do have one of the easier schedules down the stretch. And the teams they're chasing, the Oilers and Kings have two of the more difficult schedules down the stretch. So I wouldn't, it's not out of the realm of possibility they make the playoffs, but it's going to take quite the run. Absolutely. With Jack, I'm still shocked at the fact that this team was able to acquire Jack Eichel. He goes through the surgery in not to say no time at all, but in a much shorter time than what's normally expected for a next surgery.

He makes himself available to practice and is able to play with this team. And the fact that he's in a situation now where he's essentially on an island on his own trying to make this work, a bit of a tough situation. And just cruel and ironic for Jeff. Yeah. Do you know how cruel and ironic it is? Jack Eichol, you know, yes, there's the whole misstreatment of how the next surgery went down. Dude wanted to be on a winning team. He wanted to compete and he wanted to be on a team that wasn't going to miss the playoff every year.

and the first TV gets to join post Buffalo might miss the playoffs because they were just so banged up. There is a cruel irony in how this Vegas Golden Knight situation is playing out. You mentioned Robin Lennar, not to kind of switch gears in terms of on-ice stuff to off-eye stuff, but we know Robin Lennar as one of the more outspoken personalities in the National Hockey League. But just before we started recording, his Twitter page seems too much. be gone. And maybe for any other NHL player, we don't focus on this. Maybe we'd be barely bad in eyelash if like Chris Wyden had a Twitter page and that page was gone. But because of the things that have been said from Robin Lennar using his platform to be a mental health advocate and also

just being a straight shooter and just calling things how it is. Like Robin Lennar's Twitter account is something that a lot of NHL median fans kind of point to. And as of, as of a short shooter, you know, this recording, maybe something changed or not, but it's not active. I'm wondering, Jesse, if there's anything to this? Like, why would Robin Lennar step away? We don't know why at this point, but maybe you know something. Yeah, it's like you said, I'll kind of echo that in that. Twitter is a better place with Robin Lennar on it. Not only like the awesome mental health advocacy that he does on there and he helps a lot of people. I wrote a story. I reached out to a bunch of of people that told me, they poured their guts out to me and told me his impact on their life

is, is massive. Not just, and these aren't all people that have met Robin Leonard in person. These are people that just see his Twitter account. They see the comments he makes in postgame, and he has helped people understand that they're not alone and the things that they're struggling with. I think he's done so much good on Twitter. And then, like you said, there's the other aspect of it. The guy's hilarious on there.

He's posting gifts of pandas rolling down the hill. And like, like Robin Leonard is great. on Twitter. NHL needs more personalities, and Robin Lennar is one of the better ones on Twitter. I don't know why he deleted it. I do know that Robin Lennar is having a rough go right now. I mean, the guy, this is his first year,

the Golden Knights moved on for Mark Andre Fleury. That was obviously a huge moment in this team's history, and Robin Lennar was finally going to be the guy to take a team on his back. Let's go to the Stanley, to a playoff run. And it just hasn't gone that way. He's been injured all year. He keeps like,

It seems like every time he comes back, something else happens. And then he had a serious shoulder injury that he's been playing through. He was playing through it, though. He was still playing. Then he injures. Then he has a lower body injury. Now he's trying to come back from that. Yesterday, he was on the ice for the first time in a while with the team.

And he takes a shot off the shoulder by Eichel and looked like he was in some pain, had to leave the ice. And Pete DeBore said they don't know what the update is. I'm not even sure if he traveled here to Seattle. We'll all have to find out here. a little bit when I go to morning skate. But I would say maybe Lennar is is not in the mood to see what people on Twitter are saying right now because he's just had a rough go of it.

That would be my guess as to why the Twitter is deleted. I honestly don't know. I had a bunch of people posting at me and messaging me just right before we went on saying, wow, Leonard's Twitter is gone. And I searched. And yeah, it is currently deleted. So not sure, but I hope whatever it is, I hope he's back on there soon. Yeah.

I think you have it right when you say Twitter is a better place with Robin Lennar. However, Twitter is a, not going to say a bad place. It's a very complicated and complex place to be. And sometimes your messages get lost in a whole bunch of other stuff. And I think if you're on it a little too long or if you see enough crap come your way, especially if you're a front facing person, it can affect your mental health. So I think I will mention this. Maybe it is, maybe it's something where just for his focus, it's just the best thing for him to just kind of step away and not do.

You're right. He's not having the greatest of seasons. We just talked about how Vegas could be in a position where they missed the playoffs. Like, maybe it's for the best for him right now to be off of Twitter. But it is still jarring as someone who followed his Twitter and thought, hey, you know, this is one of the more outspoken guys. and considering where the NHL is at with bigging up their personalities, it is very, I think it's newsworthy to bring up that one of the guys who was good at Twitter from the NHL seems to be taking a moment away from it.

There's one more thing I want to mention before we queue up Pierre LeBrun and Mike Russo in the report from Florida at the general manager's meetings. It is a sad time for the Ottawa Senators organization, owner Eugene Melnick, unfortunately, passed away earlier this week after battling a long illness. I encourage everyone, if you haven't already done so, to read Ian Mendez's article on Eugene Melnick, which describes him pretty, like, it's a pretty layered personification of him. Yes, he has done a lot of good for the franchise in terms of keeping them in Ottawa, doing things around the community as well, but he did find ways to alienate players, media, and fans as well.

So I've noticed this for Ian and other people as well. It's a complicated legacy when it comes to Eugene Melnick. Jesse, what are your general thoughts on Eugene and how he went about his business in the NHL for as long as he was with us? Yeah, I kind of agree with that, that it's layered. It's obviously the initial reaction is it's really sad I mean I think he was 63 that's not very old at all 62 actually

62 yeah that's that's brutal it's really sad to see and I think like you said there there are lots of different ways to look at it there's definitely some negatives but I think the guy is the like I think it was Ian who said it he's the reason there's a hockey team in Ottawa right now and I think the NHL like

when I go to Canada I freaking love how much people like there like hockey in Canada. I absolutely love it. I'm going to Vancouver here from Seattle and I am pumped. One of my favorite road cities to go to. And I just, I think more Canadian,

like the more hockey teams there are in Canada, the better. I love the just the whole vibe in Canada around the hockey teams. I can't imagine Ottawa. I know the arenas way the hell out there and people, like the attendance isn't great in Ottawa compared to some of the other teams,

but still, I think the NHL belongs in Ottawa. So if there's one thing I'll take from Eugene Melnick, If he's the reason there's a hockey team in Ottawa, that's a pretty good thing. Yeah, I think that's a good way to put it. But again, I think, again, for people who haven't read it, read Ian Mendez's article on Eugene Melnick, I think it is the best way to kind of play on the tightrope of how to describe Eugene Melnick as a personality in the National Hockey League. And with that, we're going to conclude this part of the show here. I think it was a good start for both of us.

I know I kind of mentioned Sarah Sivian might be on the show this week. That might be a little tricky. It looks as if some stuff in Tampa Bay might be taking up a bit more for time. So after this, we are going to hear from Russo and LeBron with more from the GM meetings in Florida. Maybe we'll try to find a way to see if there's some topics from that. We can touch on a little bit. And of course, a Twitter question of the day. I'll just kind of tease that out there for everyone now.

What is your favorite NHL celebrity endorsement? We'll read some of your responses on the show later on. All right. So we're going to get to Michael Russo and Pierre LeBron from the NHL general manager meetings in Florida.

And they'll give us their info, the latest on what's been going on there, some of the different talks that have been going on amongst all 32 NHLGMs. I mean, it's Michael Russo and Pierre LeBron. I always feel informed whenever I read from them or hear from them, Jesse. I'm sure they're going to give us some great stuff in between whatever pinocaladas they're drinking before the beach. It's okay.

I'm just kidding. They wouldn't do that. They wouldn't do that. Maybe they'd be on a beach or something. But yeah, they're going to let us know what's up from the GM meetings in Florida. Take it away, boys. Well, Michael Russo and Pierre LeBron coming from Palm Beach, literally the beach here at the GM's meeting. We're not sitting in the same.

I know. Air conditioning. When you live in Minnesota, it's almost too hot. But obviously down here at the GM's meetings, it was a tough assignment up here. Not a ton of news that came out of here, but interesting stuff. Let's start with LTIR. Yeah. So this is the so-called playoff cap discussion, the idea of whether or not there should be a cap in the playoffs and whether or not you call the Kuchar-Off rule from last year. but there was discussion of it and most notably the couple things that came out of today we've identified Ken Holland as the GM

that really spearheaded this discussion in terms of wanting it discussed and in terms of having potential ideas he's got the support of several GMs and while Gary Bettman and Bill Daly came out and said they don't think it's that big of an issue everyone involved in that meeting agrees that the dialogue will however continue

that the next GM's meeting is at the draft of Montreal in July and that they're going to further discuss this, but whether or not they should tweak the LTIR system and find a better way to, you know, to handle how injured players are accounted for and the fact that, you know, Tampa had a $98 million payroll last year in the playoffs. Again, Tampa didn't do anything wrong. That's within the rules right now. So, again, that's the key takeaway is that there's no apparent change right now,

and it may never be changed, but they are going to discuss it again in July, And number two, Bill Daly said that he's already had a few chats with the NHLPA about it, about LTIR. So to be continued, but it certainly could have not been continued, I guess is my point. So we'll see where it goes. And obviously, Bill Daly said that they do try to investigate this, you know, pretty thoroughly, especially around the trade deadline. And if you're a team that tells them, yeah, we're expecting back at game one of the playoffs, that's when they really dig into it.

And I think it's important to note because I asked Gary Batman point blank, you know, how does the league feel about Vegas? And I think we should sort of move on from this Vegas. Because this year, Vegas is the last year it's Tampa, and now this year it's Vegas, you know. And the commissioner was pretty direct that they believe Vegas is absolutely transparent, that they are absolutely satisfied with the way Vegas is handling their LTIR and that, you know, there are no issues there, regardless of what it may look perception-wise for those of us on the outside.

Obviously, the data-and-off issue is something that they addressed. here. Clearly, Bill Daly and the PA, this was not a vote. This was Bill Delley and the PA behind the scenes. Drafting language. Then it looks like that these no trade lists now are going to be submitted to the central registry. Definitely with new contracts and they're going to probably look at old contracts as well. Yeah. In fact, Bill Daly saying you had another call with the NHLPA today to firm that up. But essentially, because the PA has to sign off on that, essentially a CBA issue. Yeah. In fact, there's Bill Dellet right there. Actually having that conference call. right now. But yeah, so again, for those who maybe didn't follow last week's drama,

when Central Registry had the trade call for Dodon Offco and Anaheim, they did not have access to as no trade list. And as we subsequently found out, much to my surprise, I know, I know about you, Mike, but, you know, Central Registry and the NHLPA actually do not have access to the list of teams on no trade list. It's a private matter between agents and clubs, which astonished me, to be honest, but no longer. Once the PA and the league sign this off, that's going to be part of a big central database. Well, it's going to be part of the contract when you click on it.

I was amazed at the fact that this happened because it just obviously, I mean, this stuff doesn't happen a lot, but it, to me, you know, you watch those videos on NHL.com on how a trade call goes through at the trade deadline, and it's almost archaic. I mean, they were literally saying, is he allowed to go there? and the GM say yes he is. But they don't have the list. You're just trusting that they know what they're talking about.

You had a great nugget in the athletic on Monday about two Kyle's. Kyle and Kyle Davidson and Kyle Dubus and Kyle Davidson. Obviously, Kyle Dubus wasn't happy with trade conversations leaking out into the public. I think Darren Dregor was the first to report that. And basically said, well, go ask Chicago when asked about it. And Kyle Davidson felt the need to stand up in the meeting and essentially apologize and he's going to button up things. Yeah, I mean, I think, you know,

and I should point out that rookie GMs at their first ever GMs meeting are usually kind of hinted at saying, just do a lot of listening, don't do a lot of talking, but good on Kyle Davidson. I think it took a lot of gumption to, and I talked to him about it Monday after the meeting, to stand up in that group and talk about the fact that, hey, the Chicago Blackhawks take the process seriously,

that, you know, these conversations should be confidential. and that, you know, he's going to make sure of that. And I just think I'm impressed that he did that because you're at your first ever GMs being, not only that, this happened within seven or eight minutes of the meeting starting Monday morning. And, you know, and he addressed the group. And, you know, I've talked to some GMs about it,

and they were impressed by that. So also, Kyle Davidson and Caldubis both confirming to me that they also patched things up, that they had a conversation last week. And I think are ready to move past. A couple years ago, when Bill Garron, of all players, people are, is a rookie GM and doesn't want to say a word, you know that rookie GMs aren't saying a word. When Bill Garren, who's as hard as they come, just a couple more for the caps going up a million bucks. And then some World Cup updates as well today.

Yeah, so I was expected the cap's going up a million to $82.5, which will be, you know, I know a lot of people listening to say, well, what's a million? A million is a lot. When you're Minnesota Wild. Yeah, 16 teams in LTIR this year with no cap rooms. There are millions, a million. after it being at 81.5 for three straight years, it's finally going to go up. And yeah, World Cup hockey is still not finalized, but Bill Daley is saying that it's going in the right direction. We're going to have a World Cup in 2024.

All countries, no young stars. Right. I asked Bill Daley in front of, you know, at the news conference about the format, and he confirmed what we thought was coming, which is that no more team North America, no more team Europe, going to go back to a traditional, you know, Olympic-type field. Yeah. But officiating was a big issue, or maybe not a big issue. According to Gary, Gary is like, oh, there's no pushback officiating's perfect. I mean, listen, and I wrote about this Monday, it's not that I don't think it was contentious inside the room, but it's just that it's an forever, evergreen issue of what is the standard going to become playoff time?

And, you know, Stephen Walker talked to GMs about it yesterday, about officiating. Bottom line is no one's ever going to be happy. Let's just be honest, because the standard does change in the playoffs. No doubt about it. Last one for yesterday, Sheldon Kennedy and Kim Davis had a presentation that they gave the GMs. They were going to have, they sort of guinea pig, the Winnipeg Jets. This is going to be training that's going to go through all 32 teams starting next season. And Sheldon Kennedy came out and really, you know, was up front with us about, you know, that he went in there with a preconceived notion that this might not be easy, but he was amazed at this, the reception of the GM. It sounded like a really, from GMs I talked to, a really heavy discussion and a lot of GMs opening themselves up to being willing to, you know, as I said, getting more comfortable with the uncomfortable, right, about some of these very serious issues. You know, harassment, bullying, abuse, discriminating, all these things are, you know, creating a more healthy environment for every NHL team. The league is, I mean, I can't tell you how I'm. President of Sheldon Kennedy is, right?

I mean, he's done this work and this space for nearly 30 years with his company, respect group based in Calgary. And the fact that he's on board helping the league with this is, it's going to have, I think, a huge impact. And I've got to tell you that had he not been on board, I'd be a little more cynical maybe. You know, are they just saying things and just to, but because Sheldon Kennedy, who doesn't have to toll the line with the NHL is part of this. And right now feels it's headed in the right direction.

And then that gives me, that's good enough for me because Helen Kennedy says it. One more for you. I asked Gary just about, you know, Eugene Melnick passing away today. Obviously, a very sad story yesterday. He passed away. But now, you know, there's been a lot of, you know, potential people circling the Ottawa Centers for a while to try to buy that team. Right now it sounds like control goes to his daughters.

Gary said that he's been in touch with his estate for the last little while, knowing that this was coming. What do you think happens now with the Ottawa Centers? I mean, it's hard to tell. And again, you kind of feel not really the day to dive into that too much. I mean, obviously, Pierre Doreen was very emotional when he addressed the media today talking about Eugene Mellick's impact in his life and on the senators. And, you know, I think those questions will be more clear in time here.

But the key is that the league knew, you know, that this was a possibility and has been in touch with the family. and, you know, I think it's going to be, I don't think people have to worry about what's going to happen for the rest of the year, but I think at some point, obviously, you'll want to know what it means for the franchise. Yeah. Cool. Well, Pierre, thanks. A couple of little housekeeping items. They talked about the Russians in this upcoming draft.

And right now, Bill Delly, obviously it's an ever-changing world, but he basically said that they don't foresee any restrictions on drafting Russians. And the NHL Awards will be between games three and four in the host city, which will be. of course be Minnesota. Pierre are going to let you go get some brains here in Palm Beach. All right, Michael. All right. To everybody back there. Jesse, I don't care what they say.

They're definitely on a beach. Both of those men were on a beach and both of those men were trying to enjoy themselves in between whatever talks they were trying to keep their ears to the streets with from those NHLGM meetings, Jesse. Yeah, I do. But the air conditioning part, like Rousseau's, it's quite. And Pierre too up in Toronto. Like those guys, they're trying to thaw out.

You got to kind of slow yourself into that. I don't know if they can go straight from Toronto and St. Paul, straight into the beach in Florida. You got to kind of ease your way in. Yeah, I feel like if you're too used to the winter and the cold over there, you need like a grace period. Some people, I don't need it as much. But I think people like Michael and Pierre might need a bit of a grace period before they jump in. but hey, you know what? Maybe they've traveled enough for that grace period lessons. Was there any big takeaway from their conversation that stood out to you the most?

Yeah, I mean, as a Golden Knights writer, I guess what stands out to me is, man, this team is like a pain in the ass, right? It seems like every year at the GM meetings, there are rules being changed because of the Golden Knights, whether it was the reviewing five-minute majors after their debacle in San Jose in game seven a couple years ago, or the Evgeny Dadanov rule is what I'm calling it. They are now, obviously, they're revamping the entire way they do. To me, the takeaway from that is, why wasn't that already the case? It's strange to me that that even needed to be revamped. They were doing it in a archaic way, it seemed.

So I guess that's good. And then also the LTIR rule that they're looking at, to me, that is. of all the potential, like, this GM meeting didn't really, doesn't seem like it's going to resolve anything. It just seems like it's kind of they're pushing towards the right direction. But I think of all the things that could potentially come of this, the biggest one is the changing of the LTIR rules to the playoffs or however they're going to do it to where teams can't do what Tampa Bay did with Nikita Kutrov and what the Golden Knights may do if they make the playoffs, which as we talked about may not happen. but if they do, to me, that's the biggest change. What do you think? Yeah, like the LTIR discussion, it's very peculiar to me.

I mean, at this point with the way the salary cap is and the fact that it's only going to go up by like another million into next year, it's the most that a lot of teams can do. It's there and it's the best they can really do unless they somehow say, you know what, to nuts with this, we're bringing in a luxury tax. and the big teams that can spend can spend, go over it, we'll figure that out later. But at this point, if this is what the best that some teams can do in order to stay, cap compliant as they can. But in terms of trying to bring it in for the playoffs, like, I'm really not in favor of that,

really. I don't know if that's something that teams really need to be doing. I'm not crazy about that idea. I say just keep it as it is. But, you know, Vegas, of course. So you have no problem with the teams going way over the cap. like if Vegas were to make the playoffs this year and everyone were to be healthy, which again, unlikely.

But if it were to happen, they'd be 15 million over the cap, I think. You don't care? I don't care. Because every team, if they were in a position where they could do it, they would do it. I'm telling you. I say this all the damn time. If the Toronto Maple Leafs added some other big salary player, I know it would be difficult for them to do, they have to put Austin Matthews on LTIR.

A lot of people would not be saying, a word about that. They'd be like, all right, like, Austin Matthews is on LTIR, we'll bring him in for the playoffs. Who cares if they're 10 million or 50 million over the cap? Like, if you're able to build the team that's there and that's a loophole, you're able to exploit, everyone is able to exploit that loophole. So I don't understand why people are someone up in arms about it. That's my feel. I completely agree that like any, any fan would want their team to expose the loophole. I'm just, I'm not so sold on like they shouldn't close the loophole. Like, why not close the loophole so that that doesn't happen.

I don't know. I think that there are other ways to do it. Like, if you're not healthy on the last game of the regular season, you can't, like, you have to be, or not healthy, but if your salary cap can't fit, if your cap hit can't fit in the salary cap on the last day of the regular season, you're ineligible for the playoffs. Like, I think there are other ways to fix it. But I think they should at least, especially if it were to happen again, like Tampa

Bay used it last year. won the Stanley Cup with that rule. If the Golden Knights were to do it again and use that and go 15 million over the cap and then win the Stanley Cup, I think it's like, okay, two years in a row, the team that has exploited this loophole has won at all. Like, maybe we should close that loophole. I don't know because then I'd look at it and be like, hey, the Montreal Canadians are, I don't remember how many million they are above this.

In fact, they're the highest spending team of anyone in terms of who the guys they've had on injured reserve as long. They're not touching the Stanley Cup playoffs at all. So it doesn't necessarily mean that every team that does it is going to be there. But if your team is well constructed enough or has enough skilled players and you have to do it, it is entirely possible that it could happen. That just be just spend. Just get the good players at the end of the day.

Like it's not just like one team just does it and they find a way to win. Like every team uses LTIR. Every team finds a way to do it. I don't know. I think if it's something that everyone can exploit, it's hard for me to feel bad. about if another team's all like, well, is like crying foul about it. Because if they're in that same situation, they would do the same thing. So I hope they don't try to like close that loophole for the playoffs.

It doesn't even seem like they're really going to do it that way either. Then the no trade clause thing, the Dadaanov rule, which I'll say this, off the games he was able to score goals with, it looks like Vegas is probably a little happy that they're able to keep him. I still think it's really weird. It's really funny seeing people be like, well, I saw it cap-friendly or puck people. this guy had a no trade clause and it's out there. I always just wonder, like, why not have like some kind of internal database where any GM could just like open it up and be like, okay, this guy has this trade clause, this one should be there.

And maybe some agents are worried about like, oh, all the teams are going to be out there and it's going to be public for people and all that. But like, there's no reason why a GM should be in a situation where they don't know that a player one has a no trade clause or the teams that are on said no trade clause. It's all about information at this point. There's no reason why they should be left in the dark. I totally see why they don't want the specific teams on the no trade to be like central registry. As we know because of deadline day, the insiders. Like if central registry knows it, Twitter knows it. And the whole world knows it because LeBron or Friedman or Chris Johnston or Seravali, one of these guys is going to get the information.

Kevin Weeks, too. Don't forget about Kevin Weeks. He might break it from the barbershop. I know. Yeah. He'll have a trash can over his head. Kevin Weeks is so amazing. But anyways, if the information is held by the league, the world is going to know eventually.

That's just how it works. So I totally get an agent saying, look, there's no reason. I don't need 10 cities out there hating my player because they're on his no trade list for no reason. Like, I think there's got to be a way to have all of the trade, no trade clauses. in Central Registry to where a GM can go and see, okay, this guy's got a 10-team, no trade, this guy's got whatever. But then the agents and the teams are still in control of the actual teams that are on the list. Because to me, that's the way to do it, because I get why they don't want the entire list to be held by Central Registry. There's plenty of players out there that are like,

absolutely not. I do not want these teams to be made public. But you can't have teams not knowing if the guy has a no trade like the Golden Knights just did. And now they're in a really precarious situation because of it. So I think that was a no-brainer that that had to be revamped. I learned earlier this week on the Chris Johnston show, which I co-host with Chris Johnston. And if you are subscribed to the athletic, you can listen to on the athletic app ad free. That essentially with waivers, because it's not like publicized, you basically have insiders like texting people in the know being like, hey, give me the list. You're absolutely right. If no trade lists are going to be in the hands of the Central Registry,

Chris Johnston is hollering at his boy in Central Registry. If he has one or not, I don't know. Right. And it's just like, hey, can you tell me where these three teams and the three team no trade clause are? And a lot, I bet a lot of Canadian fans are going to get pissed off at players because a lot of times you hear like, oh, this guy probably has this Canadian team on his no trade, no trade list.

these Canadian markets are there. Anyway, it's definitely going to be a point of contention among people. But again, good job on Michael and Pierre for their reporting from the general manager meetings in Florida. When we come back, Jesse, I'd like to know what you're working on. And also we'll take the answers from the Twitter question. What is your favorite NHL celebrity endorsement? Back at it here on the...

Wednesday Roundtable edition, myself and Jesse Granger here. Just want to get to the Twitter question I threw out earlier this afternoon. What is your favorite NHL celebrity endorsement? And I thought of that question in light of John Tavares and Brad Marcha, both coming out with their own line of cereal in the last few weeks. I just want to read out a few here. Shana Goldman, shout out Shana Goldman, who does a great job for us. She says, Henrik Lunkwist with head and shoulders.

Hair products make total sense. But in what economy would he let that on his hair? I don't know. I figured it just would be a smart idea for him to do. Tommy Hudds, Doug Gilmore milk commercials where he had Callex. Also, the Sonnet insurance ones have been good. There's some ones in Ontario. There's ones in Quebec, too, where they use guys to each of their respective provinces.

Those ones have been good. Another one from Steff Fu. It's literally Steph and then Fu. pasta, I'm guessing for David Pasternak in Boston, his Dunkin' Donuts commercials were pretty hilarious, I concur. And the OV and Backstrom duo commercials were also great. Jesse, do you have one? This photo, I can't pronounce this name, D-Y-L-L-Y bar, tweeted at us, it's Yager's peanut butter, and it's not close. This photo, if anyone who is not on Twitter, literally download the Twitter app and go to this tweet, just it's worth it. This

photo of Yomir Yon. He's got the mullet. He's got the tan button-up shirt with stripes. He's got it tucked in to his black, tight, skinny jeans. And he's holding a piece, a jar of peanut butter. It's like a pyramid of peanut butter. It is amazing. It's a great photo. I had no idea he had his own peanut butter. It looks like his face is on those peanut butter jars. Phenomenal, absolutely phenomenal. That would be my vote. I didn't know that that existed until just now, but that's definitely my vote for my favorite NHL endorsement. That is hilarious. Also, someone below that, I think KUCIV won.

I think they sent a Photoshop of an ad that was actually a real thing in Montreal. You know, the brand Weber for grills and stuff. I think after the Suban Shea Weber trade, there were signs across parts of Montreal where P.K. is holding like a spatula. And it says, like, gemont Weber. Like I love my Weber grill, obviously a shot at the trade. But this Photoshop here, because I don't remember this going around at all. It's actually of former Munchrock & Ains general manager, Parker, Berger holding the spatula

saying he loves his Shea Weber, which, I mean, he did. He did love Shea Weber a lot when he was general manager, and that's why he traded for him. Yeah, we love the answers to this Twitter question. Before we let you go, Jesse, tell the people what you're working on. Yeah, I've got some exciting stuff. Obviously, here in Seattle, there's going to be some expansion versus expansion stories coming out of this. I'm pretty excited to look at the numbers, look at what they're doing out here in Seattle. It's pretty exciting.

It reminds me a lot of a couple years ago in Vegas. So I'm kind of having nostalgia seeing all these ice rinks pop up and everyone getting excited about hockey. I can remember that those couple years in Vegas. So, yeah, lots of expansion stuff while I'm here in Seattle. And then from that, it's to the playoff push. team has not had a playoff push in team history. They have coasted into the playoffs four years in a row. They finally have to win games. There are regular season games that have absolute consequences if they lose. So I'm excited for that. It should be a fun couple weeks. Jesse,

looking forward to your coverage as always and looking forward to seeing how the Vegas Golden Knights find a way to make it to the playoffs and keep their their intact streak of making the postseason since they joined the league alive. Dude, this was really fun. to kick it with you, even if it was just you and I. We miss Sivie, of course, but a big fan of yours. So I was really happy I got to kick it with you for the Wednesday roundtable edition of the show. We also have to shout out, Rob, who could not be here because he is now a father, his wife. Pretty awesome. Pretty awesome for them. Their child was born, and everything seems to be good. The child seems to be

healthy. So I'm really happy that the family is doing really well. We miss you, Pizzar. We know you'll be back soon. And, you know, I felt pretty good. sitting in his chair for this Wednesday edition. I think I handled myself okay. Thanks, buddy. Yeah, you did. I thought you nailed it. Anyway, look, it helps when you're rolling with people who also know what they're talking about.

So thank you, Jesse, for making it easy. And thank you to everyone who listened to the Wednesday edition of the show. Be sure to check out some of the other shows throughout the week for the Athletic Hockey Show, including Craig Custin and Sean Gentile, who do the Athletic Hockey Show USA on Tuesdays. They had Matthew Kachuk on their Tuesday edition and Joe Smith on this week's edition for them. So be sure to check that out. Follow us on your favorite podcast platform. Don't forget to leave a rating and review.

Subscribe to the Athletic Audio Plus on Apple Podcasts to get all the bonus content from our entire network. You can start with a 30-day free trial than just 99 cents a month after that. And right now, get an annual subscription to The Athletic for just $1 a month for six months when you visit theathletic. dot com slash hockey show will be back tomorrow ian mendez and sean mackindoo will be back with that and who knows what they'll talk about they'll find stuff to talk about you just have to tune in on the thursday show for jesse and for sarah and for rob i'm julian thank you so much for tuning in to the athletic hockey show wednesday roundtable edition