The Athletic Hockey Show - NHL Pipeline Rankings Teams 1 through to 8

Episode Date: August 24, 2023

On the Thursday the Athletic Hockey Show, Max Bultman and Corey Pronman conclude Corey's Prospect Series Pipeline rankings. On the final episode of this four part series the guys present the pipeline rankings for team 1 through to 8. The pipeline rankings comprise all players under 23 years of old before September 15th in an organization.Save on a subscription to The Athletic: theathletic.com/hockeyshowThis episode is sponsored by/brought to you by BetterHelp. Give online therapy a try at betterhelp.com/nhlshow and get on your way to being your best self.Sign up for Chime today, and make this summer the best one yet - for yourself and your wallet. Get started at chime.com/nhlshow. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the Athletic Hockey Show Prospect Series. Hey, everybody, Max Bolton here alongside Corey Pranman for another episode of the Athletic Hockey Show's prospect series. We are at the finish line, Corey. It's the last day of our breakdown of your pipeline rankings. We are into the top eight. It's been a long road here, and we're into some of the real premium territory here of the under 23. Just a quick reminder. These are not just prospects, and especially at this point,

of the list. A lot of the ways that these teams get this high on the list is because some of their high players have already arrived in the NHL and have kind of separated themselves from the pack. And so that certainly is the case of the first team we're going to talk about today, the Detroit Red Wings with Moritz-Sider and Lucas Raymond headlining their list. Obviously, I think there'll be a little bit of pushback on where a couple of these guys go on your list. Maybe the step sophomore slumps kind of kick them back a spot or two, but you still think really highly at both of them. And there are certainly the headliners of the Red Wing system. Yeah.

And to your first point, Max, that the teams that tend to be the highest ranked in the pipeline rankings tend to be NHO organizations that have had successful young players in the NHL. The way I typically rate these players is, you know, when I tend to be more conservative when they are in the amateur levels. But then once they do initially show success in the NHL, I get much more aggressive in projecting them just because that is such a significant indicator that they will actually hit in the NHL. Obviously, because they've now had success in the NHL seems maybe a little bit basic in terms of the analysis.

But when you're 18-year-old and the OHL, there's a lot of uncertainty. But when you pass that test, at least at some point, it gives you a lot more confidence that you will have a long and productive NHL career. going to Detroit for a second. This is an organization you and I also have a lot of conversations about when even when I was making the Detroit section for the pipeline rankings was discussing particularly the play of Mord Cider and Lucas Raymond this past season. I still think with Cider, especially, you're still very happy with this player. He looks like he's going to be a star NHL defenseman for a very long time, you know, this huge, very mobile, very physical, intelligent two-way defensemen. maybe the offense this year looked a little bit more in line with what you kind of thought he was coming up, not the guy he was in his Calder Trophy season, but still an excellent player.

But I think Lucas Raymond is really the big one in this organization. I saw in an article you did recently at the Athletic and a roundtable with a couple of the writers. You talked about him being kind of the X factor of Detroit because the guy we saw in his rookie year wasn't really the guy we saw this past season, at least consistently. and as a guy who is not an elite skating small winger, he needs to be this outstanding scorer to really help this Detroit rebuild and give him, you know, an ideal world, he does become the consistent 70-point guy that can really be a true force offensively.

And I didn't watch him this season and think, yeah, he's for sure going to be that. No, I think he certainly had the prototypical sophomore sloth. lump and that is a concern. I mean, he's the highest pick this organization's had, and I believe over 30 years. And so they haven't gotten into that top three. They haven't won a lottery. They need him to be that kind of player. Fair or not, that might not be fair expectations to put on the player. But I do think that, you know, his rookie year flash that that was in there, and he is the biggest difference maker, I think for them both probably this year and for the near future. Their most recent first round pick, though, Nate Danielson, I want to talk about his play

here for the Redmond's. I think you've got him as their number one prospect once he get past cider and Raymond, above a Simon Edfinson, above a Marco Casper. Obviously, we talked about him a lot in the run up to the draft, but what gives you that kind of faith in him and that kind of projection in Nate Danielson? And I have him and Evanston really close overall in terms of how I rate him as players. But I think with Danielson, he just checks every box. I think you're excited about the skating, you're excited about the compete, the size. I think the skill is excellent. I know the production this year wasn't excellent in the WHL, but I think there is legitimate offensive

top six skills there to go with that premium position down the middle, to go with the skating, to go with the compete, to where I think there's going to be a very nice NHL player in a couple of years. But I could see the argument for him or Evanson. I think Evanson also, you know, ticks every box, competes well, big, really mobile,

has good, I don't think the offense is as good as Danielson's, but I think there is good offense and puck moving in his game. You know, those are really important players to build on. And I do really like the way Detroit is building right now. I think there is a path here for them to become a playoff team with this group of players. I mean, you talk about the young guys on the Ross or the guys they've added in the off season,

I think whether it's Brinker or Comfer, to go with Sider, to go with Raymond, you know, when I think Danielson will be there in a few years. Evanston should be there shortly. I mean, I do think this is a group. I don't know if it's a contending group, but I think this is a playoff group. And that is a distinction that is very important to make. And I think it's one that the Redmings are going to be faced with sooner than fans maybe want to realize. What may end up being the difference maker is whether they can get a guy from the later rounds to pop.

And one guy who I thought I might see a little higher on your list here was Carter Mazur, who since his draft year has just kind of trended up and up and up and had a pretty good debut in the pros in the H.L. What do you want to see from Carter Mazur next year for him to move up this list? although I think he'll be ineligible in a year, but nevertheless. I mean, I do think, I still think really highly at him. This was a guy I thought was a fringy prospect a few years ago. Now he's a guy, I think, potentially be a middle six winger in the NHL. The skating is strong.

His compete is really good. He has good skill. He can shoot the puck well. Obviously, he had a fantastic year at Denver this year, you know, has good experience there with Team USA at multiple events. He's very nice all-round player. I don't know if there's any, if there's enough high. end trace, as in like maybe an average size, good, not great skating winger to maybe be a true premium guy in the NHL.

But I think, you know, so if he goes to the American League next year or maybe even the NHL, but if he goes to the American League next year and scores at a really significant rate, that could maybe change my mind a little bit on that front. But I do think this is a very nice player. I think he's got a chance to be that. I think William Wallinger's got a chance to be that. I think, you know, he looked really good in Sweden last year, maybe not the mid-round guy, you know, it's a high second.

But still, you want to see guys like that if he hits becomes what I think he could be, which maybe he could even be a second pair of defenseman. I think that's a really nice piece to get. You have a Madias Lombardi in this system, who I think I looked really good in the OHL. Sorry, last season could be potentially a bottom six four in the NHL. You know, those are all the things you kind of need to happen to create some depth in this organization to go around those premium guys. And then the big one, obviously, is in goal. And I think they draft Trey Augustine this past year, but really all eyes are still on Sebastian Kosa.

They traded up for him a couple years ago. The tools are really impressive there, but he still hasn't, I mean, he was in the East Coast League all of last year, ended up having a pretty solid season after a little bit of a slower start. Where are you out on Kosa? And I know he's not in this tier for you with the Walsstets and the Ascarovs and the Spencer Nights yet. Right. And I think you can make that connection. you know, you had Walsett and Kosa in the same draft year.

Walsett was a very solid American League goalie this past season, and Kosa was a solid East Coast goalie this past season. Now there's an athletic traits part of it where you have Kosa who's bigger and moves better than Walsett. But I think there's a distinction there. And I think it's fair to have Kosa. I still like Kosa. I think he's going to be an NHL goalie.

But I have one tier below Walsett, I think it's reasonable, given what they've shown over the last couple of years. And at Kosa just needs to become more consistent. His hockey sense concerns me at times. But I think when you're that big and move as well as he does, I think he will find a way to become a regular NHL goaltender. One thing that people are going to realize over the course of this episode is that four of the top eight, Corey, are in the Atlantic Division.

And that includes the team at number seven. That's the Ottawa Senators. We talked about these kind of players who have already arrived at the NHL in the other 23 rankings. Tim Stutzel is that. Jake Sanderson is that. Shane Pinto is that. Right. And obviously, Shane Pinto looks like such a great NHL player right now, a great young NHL player. But he's probably going to be the third line center in Ottawa, presuming Josh Norris is healthy, which hasn't always been the case. But I mean, I think Pinto is a really nice player. And it goes to what Ottawa is building there right now. And it's why I think the East is going to be so competitive going forward. Because

you know, Detroit wasn't a playoff team. Ottawa wasn't a playoff team. But I think these organizations that are pushing in the right direction. And obviously, you mentioned Tim Stutzlow. He's one of the very, very best young players in the NHL, you know, an absolute gamebreaker with everything you want to see in a top NHL forward. Jake Sanderson is one of the better young defensemen in the NHL right now. This is actually an organization that hasn't had many high picks in the last, I think, two years. but because of how good those young players have looked,

this looks like an organization that has the potential to keep pushing up the standings. Sanderson, I think, is an interesting one here because everyone has a rookie year in the NHL and you never know how it's going to go. But I thought his was really strong, Corey. And I think when you now look at what Ottawa has on defense, when you have Shabbat and you have Sanderson, you have Chick-Rid, I think Artem Zub is a really nice player. This blue line is really starting to come. them together. Right. And I think Tyler Cleven's going to slot in very nicely in that group where

I think Cleven is going to be a career in HL player. But if he can just be like a four, five, six type who kills penalties, takes D zone draws, and you have all these other puck movers and strong skaters around him, I think Cleven can really excel in that environment. I'm not as high on kind of the depth of Ottawa system as maybe I would have been a year ago or so. But Ridley, Greg, a nice player. And you really like Mad Sogard. You've got him in a potential starting goalie tier, I think, down my line. Yeah. And his numbers haven't been that amazing over the last year or so.

But I just think he kind of has a lot of similarities to COSA with the size and the quickness. And he's when I've watched him as a pro in the American League in the NHL, even though the numbers haven't been there. I've seen him impact enough games to where I think he, this guy has a real chance to be a starting goal in the NHL. Tyler Boucher obviously is one that I think we're going to talk about for the next couple years, at least until we see what he becomes. Where are you at on Tyler Boucher? Obviously, that was a very controversial pick at the time.

Controversial pick at the time. But if he had gone in the 20s, I think people are still saying, you know, oh, he looks like a guy who should have gone in the 20s, which is probably where he should have gone at the time. It's been unfortunate for him and how often he's been injured over the last few years. Because what he was healthy, the reviews from scouts in the OHL was very, very positive. if he looked quite good at the World Trainers, I thought, again, when he was healthy, you know, given that he's very physical, he skates well, he's got good skills.

Yeah, there is a little bit of natural scoring ability, but it's not high end. He's a good player, a guy who I think would be a really nice middle six forward who can play that really physical brand of hockey that's hard to find at times. But he may never be like this big time offensive producer. All right. On to the number six team in your top eight. And surprise, surprise. It's another Atlantic Division team.

It's the Montreal Canadiens. We're going to talk about Cole Cofield and Ureslovsky. But one of the things that jumped out to me right away looking at this list is the defenseman, which, you know, Lane Hudson is one of the most exciting young prospects, I think, in the NHL. And I think he is your fourth D here listed for Montreal. That has to be really exciting for Montreal fantasy here. Right. And, you know, I think David Reinhbacher, the fifth overall pick is an outstanding young player.

I still think Justin Barron could be an NHL player. I think Caden Gully is an outstanding young defenseman. You mentioned Elaine Hudson, who is going to be a much talked about prospect over the coming years because of how good his offense is, but also because he's a tiny defenseman without elite skating ability. We'll see how that projects out. We'll see how his success might impact where his brother Cole Hudson gets drafted this upcoming season and whether teams believe in him or not. Interesting conversation

in having people about how does Lane Hudson compare to Aaron Kibaharayu in this upcoming draft. Does that change perception of Kiva Haru or does Kiva Haru also draw precipitously come June? We'll see what time. But I also think you'd like the play of Arbor Jackai

in the NHL last season. He looks like he's an NHL defenseman. And obviously there's a major asterisk on Logan Mayu who had a really nice year in the OHL last year but given about the event that happened in his draft season. It currently has an asterisk next to his name because the NHL has explicitly stated that he needs to undergo some sort of review before he can be allowed to play in the NHL.

But if he was allowed to play in the NHL, I think this is a guy who has potential to be like a second pair of defenseman. He's big, mobile, physical, good skill, big point shot. Like there's stuff to like there about his game. In general, it's a very promising, you know, blue line. Yeah, and I especially love when we talk about Hudson and kind of the, still the uncertainty around with the size, almost no matter what, with the rest of the names you just mentioned, we're surrounding him with 6-2, 6-3, 6-4 guys. I think it's a perfect environment.

I agree that I think with the way they're building right now, you can bring Lane Hudson into a position where he can succeed. Because if he's on the same blue line that has David Reimbacker and Caden Gully and either Arbor Jack High, Justin Barron, Mike Matheson, then you can kind of plug him in there on that third pair. You know, don't ask him to play 20 minutes and night. He can play 18, but then also run your first power play. And I think he can have success in that role. One of the really impressive things about this system is there's 11 guys here

who are at least projected to the middle of the lineup or better, which I think is really strong for an under 23 list. But I can't make you wait anymore to talk about Cole Cofield and Ureslovsky, who are, of course, the more top of the lineup, All-Star-type projections here for Right, and Caulfield got hurt and missed the second half of the year, but he scored 26 goals and 46 games this season. And obviously played really well towards the second half of the previous year after Montreal made that coaching change. And just looks, you know, as he has throughout his career. He's a dynamic goal score.

The skill level is outstanding. His shot is outstanding. He will be the flank guy on a first power play for a very long time. I think with Caulfield, he can't be just the only guy on your team who you're building around out for because, because of the frame, because it's not incredible skating ability. But obviously he has shown throughout his amateur and now pro careers that he can be a difference maker offensively. And in a sport where you've got to score about three goals typically to win a game, you know he's probably going to give you maybe 0.5 to 1 a game on average.

So he makes for a very exciting and important part of an NHL team. I want to talk about the two guys who I guess we can call them reclamation projects. They still feel a little young to call them that. Kirby Doc, obviously, you're one of that process, was extremely successful for him in Montreal. And now the Canadian seem to be trying to do the exact same thing with Alex New Hook. Yeah, and I think that's kind of part of them trying to build a center depth. Kirby Doc Accenter is Alex New Hook a center. We'll see when I was reading our Arpin Basso, he seems to think they're going to try DACA

center first and see how that goes. They did that times last season, and then they moved into the wing. So I guess you get different options and see how they work out. I like both players. Doc more than new hook, obviously, because Doc just has that incredible toolkit, even if the consistency isn't always there. I mean, you're that big and skate as well as he does and he has that kind of skill. You think he should be a top six forward.

We'll see how all these pieces come together. We didn't even mention Slavkovsky much yet. Also, his first year in the NHL went just okay. Obviously got injured and missed the second half of the season. But I think with time, this is going to become a really good, top six four to a guy, you know, we've talked about him before. Maybe it wasn't the best draft class, not the way you think of what a one-one should look like.

I think in a lot of draft, he goes one-three, one-two, one-four. Like, this is still an exceptional young player with a lot to offer. And I think this could be, you know, 30-plus goal score in the NHL. I was just going to ask you, I mean, we know that sometimes the bigger forwards take a little bit longer in the NHL to really hit their stride. And you talked about a one-three, whatever, one-forks. two, how similar do you think his trajectory could be like a Capo caco, for example? Better skater than Caco is maybe the one thing I think about it.

In terms of timeline to impact, though, right? Chuck Caco, two, three years till we really saw it come through in the NHL. Yeah, I think that's fair. I think because there's a skating difference there, I think you're hoping this year it takes a jump, and if not, then it's definitely in year three. You're hoping that he becomes an important NHL player. Yeah. All right, onto the Columbus Blue Jackets, and they've made a bunch of high picks in these

recent years. And they get the big Wright-Shuff D. last year and David Yurecheck this year, they get Adam Fantilli to, quote-unquote, fall to number three. Some really nice depth, though, developing here. Kent Johnson, Cole Sillinger, Denton, Matechuk. I know you like Gavin Brinley, too. So really, Columbus has infused a ton into their system these last two years. And I think there's a couple of guys here who are later picks that have protected really well. Stanislofts, Spohzil, third round pick in 21. It developed very well as one of the best defensemen. And then the C. at the World Juniors.

He looked decent as a pro in a couple of games at the end of the year there too. So he's trending in a good direction. He ages out because of just, he was an older KHL player. But I think I've always been a big Dmitzsche Voronkov fan. He should come in next year and be a top nine four for them. You have Kriel Marchenko, who just recently graduated, who looked really nice for them at the end of the season. So I do like a lot of what Columbus is building.

I think this is a group where you consider what's on the NHL roster right now. I think you like to see a little bit more at the goal to team position personally, but I think the group in general, their skater group, I think, is a group that you could win with in a couple of years. The one thing I do wonder, given how aggressive they were in the offseason, is does the current coaching and management group get to stay around long enough to see the success they have? I mean, it's definitely as possible. I think this is, the roster is solid. They made some really good veteran additions there in Prova-Rawson.

And I think Fantilli, you know, you, we all love that at Fantili. Even the, I think some of the people who would have had, you know, Leal Carlson overall Fantili would still say Fantagli is an exceptional young player. The question is going to be how fast does the impact come? Because some people say, you know, we'll see maybe a tough first year, but some of the bigger Anna Fantili fans in the league think, oh, this guy could be like a 30-30 guy right away. And if that's the case, then, you know, Wool's, you know, it could change that, that playoff discussion for Columbus.

Yeah, certainly. And I think, you know, we saw with Cole Cillinger, you know, good year one, a little bit of maybe a, I don't know if it's a step back, but just kind of hasn't hit that next up. I would call it a step back. He was in the American Way last year. Yeah, yeah, okay. So we've seen that it can take a little bit longer,

even for the more, I think, physically willing and ready centers. And Cole Cillinger was certainly that. You don't want to put too much pressure on him. But if those two guys can be legit middle-six centers, let's say, for Columbus this year, let alone what you're talking about, the first line center. This team, I think, has a lot of potential to take a step forward. Yeah, I agree.

And this just goes into the discussion we've been having with the Eastern Conference, is that only eight teams can make it. But, man, there's so many teams in the East that have a lot of up-and-coming young talent or are currently talented, and there's still two more Eastern Conference teams to name here. There are. And we're going to get to them after this break. Okay, Corey, we are back, and we are down to the time.

Top four. These are obviously the best position young teams in the HL for various reasons. And it will be no surprise what that reason is for the number 14, the New Jersey Devils. The envy of the league with two number one pick top centers. Jack Hughes, a superstar. I think we can officially say that now. And Nico Hesha continues to really develop. He is no longer eligible for this list, of course. But Jack Hughes alone and his brother Luke really put this Devils team into this.

very elite strapped sphere. Right. And I'm sure some will see how that Jack Hughes is still eligible and wonder if that maybe doesn't make this ranking credible because it's like, well, this is a superstar NHL player. And I understand that. But there's a lot of young NHL players, guys who people think are promising prospects that are in the American League that are the same age as Jack Hughes.

Jack Hughes still has a lot of development ahead of him. And maybe I know if the offense will ever get much more better, but I think maybe he can have a more well-rounded. two-way player. And yeah, I mean, he's, like he said, he's one of the

superstars the NHL, a guy who got heart votes this year and likely we'll get hard votes again in the future. And you mentioned

his brother, Luke, who comes in towards the end of the year after a very good collegiate career and shows well in his limited NHL time,

particularly towards the end of that playoff there where I think in that last playoff game, I think he was, I think, second on the team at ice time

there in that final game. And we'll see how he does over a full year of the NHL, but I think with his truly outstanding, skating ability to go with the big frame and legit offensive skills, I think this is a guy who has potential to be a star offense in the NHL. And certainly to the point about Jack, he's also going to be around for a long time, right? And we've talked about kind of the intention of these rankings is to capture, you know,

who's in the best position for the next several years. And Jack Hughes certainly puts the devils in that conversation. But back to Luke, he's a guy that I really want to have wanted to pick your brain about on this podcast for a while. Because the talent is so obvious. He is, you know, for his size, a remarkable skater, as you would expect of anyone from his family, tons of skill. But there is some risk in his game. And I'm really curious to see how long it takes or whether that risk can get ironed out. Do you think it should get ironed out? Or do you think it's just so central to him doing what he does? Yeah, there are some distinctions between him and his brothers. I mean, his brothers, he is bigger than both Quinn and Jack. And while he is very, very skilled, I don't think he has the exceptional puck games that they do, particularly the exceptional hockey sense that both Jack and especially Quinn have.

I think Quinn would be the smartest of the three players if I had to do a ranking. And so that is a concern. But I think just because of his length and how he is still that elite a skater with that length, you kind of saw it in college. He would try and be too cute, get aggressive and make mistakes of the puck. but when you skate that well with that kind of reach, he kind of compensates with it a little bit. And he can get back and cover up. Now, in the NHL, it won't be as easy as it was in college.

But I think just if it was just good skating ability and good offensive skills at that size, you're not as excited. But I think it's just off the chart skating to go with pretty good, not elite puck moving in offensive skills and creativity. that I think even though he does make some bad mistakes with the pocket and tries to do too much at times, I think over time he will be a very impactful NHL player. Also still so young. I forget this about Luke almost every year, but he was a week from being eligible in the following draft class. So he has not even turned 20 yet. So that is always an important thing to remember here.

Next on the devil's list is Dawson Mercer. And he's a player who is obviously a top 20. So you expect good things. But I think it's fair to say he's exceeded the draft slot by a decent margin already. Yeah, I mean, he was a top six forward on a top offensive team last season. His compete is excellent. He gets the hard areas. He wins a ton of battles.

He's smart. He's skilled. His skating isn't amazing. And I don't even think the puck game is exceptional, although I think it's really good. I think it's better than a lot of scouts. Even though I always really like Verser, the pure offense he's shown in the NHL was probably even better than I thought. he would show right away.

And the way he plays and hears himself to coaches. He's a guy who can play penalty kill or power play in the NHL. There's a lot of things that like there about this guy. And this is still a guy who could play center. If they ever get too many wingers, this could be an absolutely outstanding third line center if they really wanted him to be. Yeah. Alexander Holtz was a top 10 pick for them a few years back.

And I don't know that he's lived up to that quite so much yet. Do you still have hope for Holtz, though, to kind of be that top six or maybe good top nine winger? I think he can be. Obviously, when a team like New Jersey, who keep adding talent, add Timo Meyer at the deadline, then extend him, they're starting to run out of roster spots for those guys in the top nine,

especially those guys who can play power play. So you have holes trying to push for a spot. You have Nolan foot trying to push for a spot. I'm guessing one of those two will find a way onto the roster this year. then the other one is probably trade bait. So we'll see with time. I do think both of those guys play in the NHL, but I can't say with confidence.

I then will play in the NHL with New Jersey. And of course, the second overall pick from last year's draft, Simon Nemitz, you've got him, I think it's a bubble top line of the middle. So that's a top 4D. How long you think it'd take him to get there?

And is there still hope that he can kind of rise? I think you hope for maybe a little higher than that with the second overall pick. Is that fair? Yeah. And I think his first half in the, American League this year didn't really go so well, but he was really good in the second half of the season, you know, especially after the World Junior's where I thought he was just fine, not great. You know, he really showed very well in the second half of the season, kind of

like how he did at the end of his draft season. So there is still some promises that I can elevate his rating. I do, I think he's super smart. He competes well. He's got very good skill. I think you do wonder at like a six O'D man. Is there enough elite traits here to be like a really impactful player? At that size, his offense needs to be. Exceptional, and I'm not sure it is exceptional. You compare them to say David Eierchek. I think the offense is analogous, but one guy is much more bigger and more physical. So there's a distinction there for me between those two players, for example.

But I think Nemmich could be a top four Dman. But that blue line in New Jersey is really good, especially with Hughes coming in. So I don't think there's any rush to bring Nemich in. You can let him play another full year in the American League. And maybe the year after is where you maybe hope he becomes a full-time player. although I could see him get some games and points during this upcoming season. And the two mid to late rounders, I just wanted to get a quick thought on from you that have risen up into at least your kind of middle of the lineup tier. Arsony Gritsch and Josh Filman, you know, for a team that's had as high picks as New Jersey has, I don't know that they actually did need breakthroughs here, but it seems like they're getting them.

Yeah, and Gritzik is still a big will seat up because I don't think he's a very good player. I do because he just got, went to ska for a couple of years, which I understand from his perspective. If you look at New Jersey's lineup, you look at the guys they're coming. They still mention Holtz and foot, and they can't guarantee this guy any legitimate ice time. So I understand why he goes to ska instead of New Jersey. But I do think he could still be a devil in a couple of years. And then Philman was one of the better forwards in the WHL last season. You know, in his drafter, you saw good skating. You saw a decent enough size, a good work level.

And then the offense kind of exploded this past season, the goal scoring especially. And I think this is a guy who has the trend. traits to be, you know, middle six winger, maybe more of a third-line wing. But I think this, I think he looks like a very exciting player for a mid-round pick. Into the medals here. The number three team with the bronze. It was your number one team last year. But that fall does happen when you graduate Rasmus Dahlin and the good news for Buffalo and Matthias Samuelson. The good news for Buffalo is this system is so crazy deep. And I'm looking at it here. And it is just first rounders and early second rounders for days.

Dylan Cousins and Owen Power, obviously, at the very top of that list. Yeah, and Buffalo last year was my number one ranked pipeline by a pretty large margin. It was a pretty significant drop off from them to number two. So it goes to show that even though you graduated a Norris contender, you still stay in the top three because there is still so much talent left here. I mean, Dylan Cousins especially took significant steps to this season as a player. to one of the premier young forwards in the NHL, gets the big contract extension as a result. Owen Power is one of the best rookies in the NHL last season.

Jack Quinn looked really impressive in the NHL last season following up on that great year he had in the American League the year prior. Played on the same line as JJ Peturka, who also has a second round pick, looked very impressive and looks like a lot of time, top six forward in the NHL. So a lot of promise that comes here from Buffalo. And you mentioned how deep a system it is.

And, you know, it gives you room for some guys to maybe underperform. You know, Payton Krebs hasn't really had the year in the NHL that you'd be hoping for. Matt Savoy, their top 10 pick from a year ago, didn't really have the year in the W. L. W.P.L. you were hoping for. But then you compare the eight years of their other first round picks, Yuri Kulich in the American League, outstanding season. And you see Noah Ocelain, who started off slow in the Al Spence game, and they had a really good second half, particularly a great play.

off there in the Ossfenskin. And it's just, you know, a murderer's row of talent. Not all of them will hit, particularly a Ford. I mean, you look at what they have currently afford in the NHL with Tage Thompson, Alex Tuck, Casey Middlestadt, Dylan Cousins, JJ Peturca right now. And you look at all the forward prospects that they'll have to come. Not all that are going to be Buffalo Sabres, but you're just hoping one of them becomes a really impactful player and then the others could probably be trade bait.

Yeah, I've been calling them the next New Jersey for the last little bit here. There is a part of me, Corey, that wonders if they're the next Colorado. And I know that might be a little overambitious. Like, I don't know that there's a Nathan McKinnon here yet. But Tage Thompson is really, really good. And Dylan Cousins is really, really good. This is a terrifying team. The one question, I think, that you still have, is in goal.

And you talked earlier in this series when we were talking about Dustin Wolf and Calgary about Devin Levi and how as excited as we in the public might be, still maybe a little skepticism in the NHL world for Devin Levi. And that might be the last big piece for this team. Right. So I think if they've got average goaltending numbers last season, they're in the playoffs. If they get average goaltending numbers this upcoming season, I think they could be not just in the playoffs. I think they could be well into the playoffs with the talent, presuming they stay healthy, of course, and play like they did last year. Devin Levi is a really nice young goaltender. I think he's going to be the NHL goaltender.

But I think when you are 5-11 or 6-0, you know, whatever he officially measures it at this fall, and you're a good athlete, but you're not exceptionally fast, like, say, you say, Sauros is, like, say, Igor Shisterkin is, there are some questions about whether you could be that legit number one. And I think Levi still has to prove that. So I think there were even some NHL scouts who were watching him at the end of the last season where he played quite well for a young goalie, but they were still watching like, oh, that shot, that concerns me, how that, how we looked on that.

place concerns me. So I still think, while he's a really nice young goalie, I still think he needs to prove it over a full season before we say he is definitively the answer for them in goal. We've seen Jack Quinn and JJ Paterka in the NHL now. Zach Benson, obviously the 2023 first rounder, he'll be on the way. We'll see how long it takes him to get there. Among those groups, Quinn has some size to him. So maybe I shouldn't group him with those other two. But what do you see is kind of the potential for the support players that are on the way here. How soon can they join the fold here? Well, you know, the point of that size is relevant, even though Quinn's average size, he's not big and he's not that fast either. So it's a very small and highly

skilled group of forwards outside of Dylan Cousins. But even when you consider, you know, they have Alpsych, they have Taf Thompson. So they have some big guys and with cousins on the big club. But the next wave of young talent is definitely more on the small, skilled side. You know, I think you're hoping to recently sign Ryan Johnson come in and play some games for you this season. We mentioned Levi already. I think those are the more immediate ones that can come. Maybe Yuri Kulich plays games for them this season.

I mean, he was so good in the American League last year. I don't think it's outside of their own possibilities. He plays games this upcoming season. Maybe not in a full-time capacity, but I could see him get games. Yep. All right. On to number two. And I have to admit, when I first saw the ranking,

I kind of wanted to roll my eyes a little bit at Chicago being number two, thinking, okay, could Connor Bedard really be that much on his own? And maybe the answer to that is yes. I know you kind of have him in a point tier of his own. I think bubble generational is what I saw in the tier there. But there actually really is a little more to the system than that. And you look at Oliver Moore, Frank Naser, Kevin Kornchinsky, Lucas Reichel. This is quietly shaping up pretty well for Chicago.

Maybe not even quietly. Maybe it's just my own. Right. It's not, I think with them, it's just that there's not like, it's not like Buffalo where it's, and I, I thought those three systems, both Buffalo, Chicago, and obviously we have, you know, by process of the nation, people can conclude that Anaheim is one. I think you can, could have put any one of those three at one for different reasons. I think Buffalo was just the murderer's row of quality depth. Chicago is badd and is an okay supporting cast. And then Anaheim is just those five, six, just outside. standing names at the top. So whatever your philosophy is, you could have gone any direction, I think, with those top three names.

But I think, yeah, with Badar, you have the superstar. You have the potential Nathan McKinnon type talent there at the top that you can build around. I think Kevin Kortinski looked outstanding this past season. It looks like the potential top pair of demon, Lucas Reichel, Frank Nazar, Oliver Moore, our guys, I think, could be top six forwards in the NHL. And then after that, it drops off a little bit, but I still think it's a lot of really good depth there for Chicago.

A lot of guys who I think. to be bottom six forwards, third pair defensemen. And if just one of those guys I miss on and miss up on, maybe even two of them, now all of a sudden you're talking about building a real depth around this team. But even with that being said, I still think Chicago, because of the fact that it isn't exceptional quality depth after Bardard and Kortinski, they still need a few more years here to lose. Just because I think they have a very bright future, does not mean that future is imminent.

But I think they're going to be very bad at this upcoming season, not really a hot take. But I think, you know, one, two, maybe three, let's say two more years of being really bad and getting a lot of high picks and quality young assets. I think then you will see, especially since you have the hardest piece now to get in Bardard, I think you can really start to build a foundation there to kind of turn around, especially if they get a really good young defenseman in one of these upcoming two drafts. How important you think it is for them to add a little more muscle, I guess, at forward and maybe specifically at center? Because I look at right now, the potential center line here is Bidar, Oliver Moore, Frank Nazar. The speed's incredible. They are going to track race you every time. All those guys are under six foot, though.

Right. And there's some guys a little bit lower in the pipeline who I do. Like, I do think Colton Dock's a really good player. The younger brother of Kirby Dock, he's big and can skate like his brother. I think Ilyos Sifonov with Kazan has shown him very well, and he's got some size. Gavin Hayes is an average size, but he plays hard. Ryan Green's a good player. So there's a little bit more coming, but yeah, they're not.

not like the premium talents in this organization. You know, we'll see with time where all those guys sort out. But, yes, I agree. I think ideally you'd like to add a little bit more size into yours top six at some point, whether through the draft or through trade. What's your projection here? I guess maybe I should let you wait until we see some preseason games. But what's the fun in that?

What's your projection for Bedard year one, rookie year? I say 50 points. 50 points. Okay. And that's more and long lines of what we saw with Jack Hughes, right? And it's certainly, there are going to be some people who are shocked in the bad way by that and not going to be too thrilled with it. But we saw Jack Hughes take two or was it even three years. I just think it's the supporting castoratim is just so bad.

It's going to be tough, I think, to even if he gets fed all the power play's first line, maybe I can say 55 if you want to get aggressive. But I think 50 is just, for me, just give it this what he's going to be playing with. I think it's going to be very difficult to. to score more unless he just, and then he's caught up a dart, I've seen him defy expectations before, but that's just my hunch from,

and obviously I love the player. There's a reason why Chicago's the second rank, right, pipeline with this, trying to project him to that first year. Actually, as a smaller guy without a really developed frame. I think there could be some bumps along the way. All right, and then you already teased it. Number one team here is Anaheim,

and you talked about that big six, that, of course, Trevor Ziegress, Leo Carlson, Mason McTavish, the three centers, and then you got 3D, Jamie Driesdale, Olin Zellwiger, Pavel Minchikov. Maybe you could talk Nathan Gosey under that bubble. I do agree there's a separation there, though. It's a really exciting young group at the two most premium positions. Yeah, I mean, when you're talking about trying, how you build a contender, premium centers, premium young defensemen, and they have that.

And now you have those players. Trevor Zegris has shown problems in the NHL, Mason McTavish has shown promise in the NHL. We'll see how Drysdale looks when he comes back, but he was looking good as a pro. In his brief time as a pro, you know, and again, we'll see how Carlson does and Minchikov and Zell Weger, but I think you look at even this organization,

you mention Goshae also Center. The next two best prospects are guys like Tristan Lunoz and Noah Warren, also defensemen. They've developed a lot and drafted a lot at the premium positions and gotten guys who I think are very talented in various different ways to where I, I think this can be a group that can win. Maybe not next year or the year after.

But I think this is a foundation of a team that they can build a winner with. The only question I really have is in goal. Maybe it's Lucas Dostel. Maybe it's Damien and Clara. I'm not 100% confident in either of them, but we'll see with time. But I think this is a very exciting young group of talent in Anaheim. And I'll be very curious to see, especially at center, how McTavish, Carlson, Ziegress are deployed.

Do all are all of them centers? do something at the wing and how, and especially given you have Gosey, is Gosey at third line center? Is he a fourth line center on this team? It's nice to have those options. If it were me, I think I would want to flex Zegris to the wing.

But I think an interesting question is... But they still have Isaac Lundersstrom. And Isaac Lundersh, that's true. When you have Leo, let's say Leo Carlson makes the ducks this year. Do you rather play the rookie on the wing, which I think is something we see NHL teams do pretty often, something Leo Carlson did in the SHL last year?

or do you want to put him at center where he was quite good, I thought, in the world championships, and just start that process now. How would you approach that with Zegris and with Carl's? I think we can agree McTavish is sticking at center. I agree. Yeah, I agree. I think long term, I tend to agree with you that I think Zegris is the wing, Carlson is the center. So I would say to start that process now.

And Anaheim isn't going to be good next season. I think everyone really knows that. If it doesn't go well, then flip it and see how that one works. You know, I think that you have these young players. you're trying to develop them, you know, there's room for experimentation. Yeah. Andy, if you're going to nitpick the ducks, the nitpick is Drysdale and Zellwiger, both on the smaller side.

Now, I think we agree. Drysdale is more well-rounded than your typical sub-six-foot defenseman. If you're going to nitpick it, that's where it comes in. Do you have any kind of concern there with this defense score? A little bit for the reasons you just said, but, and, you know, I like Jackson-Lacobal lock, but again, more offensively tilted. I like Tristan and Luno a lot, but also more offensively tilted. So you would like maybe at some point to get your Jake Sanders in,

which is obviously easier said than done. But I do really like this blue line. I think Drysdale, Minchikov, Zellweger, Luno, Warren, Lacombe, can all be part of a successful NHL blue line. Maybe you have to, you might run out of powerplay spots at one point. Like I'm guessing this upcoming season, Minchikov and Zellweger are fighting for the same. for the same job. And maybe at some point you figure out, okay, we don't need all of these guys.

Maybe we have to move one of them. But I do think, and I do think this is a, still a very exciting young blue line, even if they do lack that true premium premium type that you talk about with their centers. I know, I know we all hate the two defensemen power play in 2023, but is it, could you not, you could play Mitchiecombe on the flank with his shot. I think that's, that's an easy solution there, right? Yeah, I can, and I don't, I don't think, they are at that spot with their defense step where they need to start moving guys. I'm just talking hypothetically. But I think you can have a blue line with Mitchikov and Drysdale and Zellweger on it,

frankly. I don't think that's unreasonable. Yeah. That would be an interesting one. Somebody played 3D on a power play last year. I'm trying to remember. Well, I didn't mean all three on the power play. I just meant like I think those three guys can coexist on the same six-man unit.

Right. Yeah, yeah, for sure. Any depth pieces here. I know it is really all about these top six here, but you've talked about, you know, Lacom, Gose, Luno, a little bit. Any depth pieces here? Again, we want him a big defenseman. Tyson Hines looks like a really nice big defenseman.

He's big, he's physical, he moves the puck well, the skating's just okay, but he was played significant minutes on Canada's World Junior team. I mean, it looks like a really nice, I think he was a third round pick by Anaheim, so I think that's a guy that's worth calling out. Yep, absolutely. Certainly a bright future ahead in Anaheim, even if it may be not as soon as a couple of the teams, you know, Buffalo, New Jersey that we've talked about, maybe Ottawa. in there too.

But they are the number one team, and that is going to do it for us today. Thanks for listen to this episode of the athletic hockey show's prospect series. You can follow us on YouTube at YouTube.com slash at the athletic hockey show. And right now, you can get a one-year subscription to The Athletic for $2 a month when you visit theathletic.com slash hockey show. I'll talk to you soon.