The Athletic Hockey Show - NHL Pipeline Rankings: Top 8

Episode Date: August 29, 2024

Max and Corey break down the top 8 teams in Corey’s 2024 NHL Pipeline Rankings including the New Jersey Devils, San Jose Sharks, and Chicago Blackhawks, and discuss the best U23 prospects for each franchise in the group, expectations, projections, and more.Hosts: Max Bultman and Corey PronmanExecutive Producer: Chris FlanneryProducer: Chris Flannery Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the Athletic Hockey Show Prospect Series. Hey, everybody. Max Bolbin here alongside Corey Pranman for another episode of the Athletic Hockey Show Prospect Series. We have reached the finish line on Corey's U-23 Pipeline Rankings. We're doing numbers eight through number one today. At the top of this list, sorry, not the top, at the number eight side of this list, top of the countdown is the New Jersey Devils at number eight.

And this is a team that we've talked about the skill they have for years and how run and gun they can be, how excited. their forward core is. Now, Corey, it is all about the blue line. Yes, and this is the organization that we was often at the top of the pipeline rankings back when Jack Hughes would often qualify for these lists. And they looked like they were trending in a really positive direction. It's going to be a consistent playoff team.

And I take a step back this past season. And that step back ends up with them being in the position to draft Anton Salaia with a 10th overall pick. And now you're looking at a blue line. that they can build around for the next decade. That will include Luke Hughes, Simon Nemich, and Anton Zelayaev. Not to mention, Dougie Hamilton still being part of that picture for the long term with that contract they gave him. Brett Pesci. And Brett Pesci.

And I think it's just a very exciting blue line to build around. Just thinking about the young guys for seconds, ignoring Pesci and Hamilton for a second. When you look at Salaev, who's six, seven, and it can skate and it's physical and it could move a puck. But it's maybe not what we would call an offensively tilted guy, a running gun type of defensemen, being able to pair him with a Luke Hughes or Simon Nemich potentially as a running mate is a very exciting idea for Devils fan. I can definitely see that kind of dynamic that Nashville had where they had Ryan Suter and Shay Weber played together for so long.

I'm not saying that both of those players are going to rise to that kind of level, but I think they have the potential to be really impact pro defensemen, especially given how good Luke Hughes looked at the NHL level this past year. I mean, he's a freak athlete, he's providing offense, running their first power, our play. It's a very exciting time for Devils fans right now, even if the success at the NHL level has not been consistent. Yeah, they've done a really good job of finding kind of those perfect balances at the most important positions on the ice at center. You kind of have that two-way responsible guy in Nico Heeshire and that, you know, flashy, like super, superstar and Jack Hughes.

On D, you have your Luke Hughes who can be that kind of, you know, dictating power play type. And I think Nemitz can do a little bit of that, too, frankly. But then you also have your killer and Salaya of it and you have veteran versions of all this stuff that we're talking about too here. So it is a team that sets up to really be able to play, in my opinion, any kind of game that they need to down the line. The only thing they really need is a goalie. And they got one for the short term. Yeah, I'll see whether that move works out for them or not. Yeah. All right. Another team that I thought had a really interesting offseason was Utah. And, you know, they're a team that I think we kind of know the top end of their forward group

headlined by Logan Cooley. But Dylan Genter, Corey is another guy who, you know, top 10 pick, we expect him to be very good and he looks like he is going to be. Yeah.

You know, his first full pro season, obviously he started in the NHL the prior year when went back down to junior. But he started off in the American League this year, played very well, then came out to the NHL and just looked as just as good if not better.

It was a big part of then Arizona, now Utah's offense. Just a big guy who can skate, you can make skilled plays, has a great shot. I think, you know, I don't know if he's ever going to be like this star scoring player in the NHL, a guy who can carry a line by himself. I think he's a really good all-around winger.

And, you know, when you look up compared with him, Logan Cooley, with Tisha Ginglingham now in the mix, you know, I think now you're starting to see a foundation building there up front, but also on the blue line, you know, we didn't even mention Daniel Bout, who I like a lot. But the blue line they're building there is really exciting. When you bring in Mikhail Cirquev to compliment. some of those young deep prospects that are coming. It's going to be a very big, imposing mobile blue line in Utah in a couple of years. And headlining that is Dmitri Simashev, the top 10 pick from 2023.

He's still over in Russia, obviously, but a player that I think you're pretty excited about. I am, yeah. I mean, I thought he was six foot four when he was going into the draft. But when Central Scouting measured him at the Gold Star camp during the summer, I think he measured it like a six, five and a half to go with the skating, the ability to move a puck, the physicality. He's a really exciting player. And it looks like I think he's going to play big men's in the NHL for a long time.

Maverick Lamarro is going to be a really interesting player to have to monitor in the coming years because he had a really big year in the queue. One of the better players for Canada, the World Junior, is he's 6'6. He can skate. He's really physical. But I've been fooled a lot by players playing well in the queue in recent years. Like I remember the Florida second round pick Evan Nouse. I liked him when I was watching in Quebec, who had a lot.

who are a top team in that league and he's big and he's mobile he gets has some decent production and then the following year he gets like five points in the East Coast League and it's and now it's like this past season so i don't want to be too ecstatic over offense coming from a player in the queue especially as a 19 year old and i don't think lamroo is going to be an offensive guy at the pro level but i think he's so big and mobile and he plays really hard that if he can just like not hot potato every single puck that gets onto his stick i think he can be a really successful NHL defensemen. At number six, it's Montreal.

And I know all the excitement in Montreal right now is over their 2024 fifth overall pick, Ivan Demadov. But Yerislevkovsky in his season that he had, really, I thought, you know, he's still your number one player here. And that's probably the biggest story in that organization still, because if he can live up to that first overall pick potential, there's not many players built like Yerislovsky in the NHL. And calling a spade of spade, that wasn't a good draft.

I don't think anybody who really looks at that draft in hindsight, I look at the top end of the draft, compares it to me, the draft before and after it will say, this was an average draft or even a strong draft. It was a below average draft class. And I don't think Slavkovsky is going one in most draft classes, but he's still a heck of a hockey player. You know, he is a guy who I think has a ton of potential in the NHL

because of his frame, is skating, his skill. You know, the second half of the year, odd words, when he was kind of running the flank there on that first power play in Montreal and was imposing himself at even strength. He looked like a really impressive player and a guy who I think can be a real foundational building block on a team that is winning. Beyond him, though, I mean, David Reimbacher kind of is the flip side to that where he did not have the year that you probably would have hoped coming off being the fifth overall pick in 2023. But you still have a pretty high grade on him here. You're not ready to give up on David Reimbacher.

No, especially because he played really well when he came over to the American League. It wasn't as much game action he's on Switzerland where he did not really look all that great over in the Swiss Pro League. as he did in his draft year. But he's still six, two. He can skate. He's a reliable puck mover. He's got some skill. I would have liked to see a little bit more of the competitive edge in him

throughout the course of the year. I saw that in his draft year. I thought he was a hard to play against, a highly competitive defenseman with the size and the skating. I didn't see that as consistently this past year when I watched him. That's the aspect. I like to see him grow on a little bit more because I loved Ryanbacker in his draft year.

I was a little disappointed when I watched him this year. But he's still a really strong defense prospect. They have a lot of really strong defense prospects in their system, whether it is Ryanbacker, whether it's Lane Hudson, whether it's Logan Mayu. I still like Justin Barron quite a bit. And obviously, Kate and Gully just got paid. I think when you look at this collection, though,

there's a lot of really nice players. Maybe the biggest of Lane Hudson stands would make the argument that he could be this kind of player. But I don't see that true premium young defensemen in the organization just quite yet. So the other position where you wonder if they have the true premium is at center. And I know they have Nick Suzuki in the NHL. He's a fantastic. And Kirby Dog.

and Kirby Doc, of course. But I don't know if I would call that true premium necessarily. Maybe Suzuki kind of gets you there. In fact, you look at their list and you allude to this, right? The cluster is like prospects number three through seven on their list are all defensemen before you get to the first center, which is Michael Hage at number eight. Is that more of a factor of how good the D can be? Like, I know it's not star level, but it's a lot of very good, or is that more speak to a real need at center?

And Kirby Doc just aged out. too. But I do think you look at that organization. You wonder, can Suzuki and Doc be the centers you build around when you're trying to win a championship? And I think they're both really good players, especially Suzuki, but I think you're looking at this upcoming draft where there's a lot of really good centers. And I think you wonder, is this a spot where we presume Montreal will be good again next year? Maybe I'm wrong, but that's my presumption at the current stage. Is this a draft here where they can try to add that center and maybe kind of put it, maybe not a finishing touch, but close to finishing touch?

on this foundation they're building in this rebuild. All right, let's move on now to Ottawa. And this is a team that has obviously been at this for a while. So you certainly do expect them to be in this range. But the thing that stands out right away, in addition to the obvious, you know, Tim Stutzler at the very top, you've got Carter Yakumchuk ahead of Jake Sanderson. They're both in a high tier.

So this is no Jake Sanderson slander. You've got them both in the NHL All-Star tier. Yakum-Chuk, already there and above Jake Sanderson. Yeah, I'm going to get crapped on for that. I know that. And listen, people are going to be able on their eyes saying that you're like obsessed with this player or whatever. Like you're way too high on Yakimchuk.

And maybe that's all true. We'll find out in five years. But I, and I think really highly above players, obviously Jake Sanders is just incredible skater, defender, has shown a lot of offense in the NHL. He's a great all-round player. But I don't know. Like I said, I mean, we've had this argument with Yakonchuck all year. I see the 6-3 defenseman who's mobile who has.

game-breaking skill who competes, who can score in big numbers. And I think he has the capabilities to be a star too in the NHL. And time will tell whether I'm out of my mind or not. But I'm really high on this player. And I think, you know, Sanerson was a fifth overall pick. Yaku Chuk was a seventh overall pick. I don't think it's unreasonable to talk about it in the same light, even if Yacchamchuk. Sorry, if Sanderson's had the pro success already, I just think that highly of Yacchumchuk.

And we'll see in time whether I'm right or not. I mentioned Tim Stutzel at the very top here. And I think it's fair to say that he took a step back a little bit, certainly with the production. You know, he didn't score 39 goals again. He scored less than half of that. He dropped by 20 points on his season there with Ottawa, which in what was really just a tough year for Ottawa all around. So I certainly don't think that that is fully indicative of Stutzler. But the way you have him ranked here, you certainly don't think it's indicative.

You've got him much more like the player who scored 90 last season. And maybe you've got him at even more than that. Yeah, I think that's kind of what he is. I think he's going to be an elite score in the NHL for a long time. I thought, you know, a little bit of his passion was just due to bad luck. Whenever I watched Ottawa, I still thought this was the most noticeable player on the ice. His skating's incredible. He's super skilled.

He imposes himself on the game with his skating, his playmaking, his competitiveness. I think it's the most natural finisher in the world. He's never really been met. But I think he just creates so many scoring chances. And I think those numbers will even out over time. And yeah, I still, I mean, you look at a guy. who's arbitrary turned 23 or just as he turned 23 has a 70-point year or 90-point year already in his NHL resume. It's pretty unusual.

And I think just with how talented he is, he's going to be a top score in the NHL for a long time. And I think if you look at that division, you know, we're always kind of wondering whether there's going to be Ottawa, Detroit, Buffalo, maybe Montreal, but probably unlikely, who's going to be that first team to take the next step to a playoff team? For me, I think it's probably Ottawa. I think if any of them are going to do it next year, I think it is probably Ottawa. We're in a territory now, too, where one elite player, and that is where you have Stutzla and really skew a team's ranking or really prop up a team's ranking. And I think you kind of see that a little bit at number four with Columbus.

Certainly, it is a good system. It's a very deep system. There's a lot of high picks in it. But Fantilli here, as the elite NHL projection, is really the carrying piece, along with a lot of guys who I think we're still waiting to kind of see it fully pan out from. That would be, you know, David Eurecheck, Kent Johnson, Cole Sillian, Linger, you know, obviously, Caden Lindstrom just got drafted. So, of course, we're waiting a little bit there.

But there is a little bit of quite a bit, I should say, of projection still with this ranking for Columbus. I would say a lot of projections still. You can even get into Mattajuck into that mix, too. We'll see what he is at the pro level at that size, but obviously a very talented and great skating defenseman. Fantilli, though, I just adore Fantilli. And I know maybe his numbers weren't incredible in his rookie season, but I actually thought

he looked really good. I thought he would have played the full year without getting hurt. I thought maybe some of those pucks would start bouncing in and the numbers would have started to increase there a little bit. I just think he's just so skilled, so competitive, so freaky athletic. And I just, I don't see any way he's not going to be an incredible NHL player. Like, will he hit the highest tiers of offensive production? I don't know on that front.

Will he be a better player than Leo Carlson long term? I don't know on that front. I'd say it's very close at this point, even though I would call you, lean Fantilli personally on my own preferences. But I, you know, those two guys, even though they didn't put up massive numbers this year, we're going to get to Carlson. We get to Anaheim, but I just think they're just so immensely talented that they're going to find a ways to be stars in the NHL.

Where are you at on Kent Johnson, I think, specifically? Because it seems like he's a guy where you could kind of waffle a little bit by this point on the projection for him. And I am kind of waffling a little bit on him because I think like his skill is just so good. and he is, you know, when he had to puck on his stick, he can really make a lot happen, but he's not a great skater, he's not that physical, not a natural finisher either. And I think his skill will get him to be a consistent top six forward, but I don't know if like the impact player projection is there,

particularly since he's probably going to be a winger long term too. Let's take a quick break right there. We'll come back with the top three. All right, we are back and I teased before the break that we were going into the top three here. And I should say, Corey, this is a clear cut top three. There's a, I have kind of access to your back end of the, of the file here as we're doing this, not just looking at the rankings. And there is a gap, a big gap between number three, Anaheim and number four Columbus. And really, there's even a little bit of a gap between number three Anaheim and Topter teams on the list who you can probably figure out by process of elimination at this point.

But the Anaheim ducks certainly do represent a tier demarcation loaded, loaded forward prospect group here. I think some would argue they have maybe the best young group of players in the league right now. It certainly is a rebuild. It being the most admirable position considering the depth of talent they have at various positions. You know, Trevor Zegrois, who obviously has been much debated but still is a very talented player, doesn't even qualify for this list anymore based on age. And then you look at, you know, just the talent up front. You have Leo Carlson.

You know, Beckett, Seneca, Mason McTavish, Cutter, Gochee. They go to defense. He is Pavel Minchikov. It's Olenzelweger. It's Tristan Lunoz. You know, it's a lot of really talented players and important positions. And it's a, you know, I think they are definitely building a group of players together that they can win with. You know, we're still waiting for some of the NHL dividends.

Like, you know, he said, you know, Mason McTavis have been very good. You know, but we're still waiting for maybe Leo Carlson to have that big year. He's only a rookie in the NHL last year. I think someone would say wait until year two, year three for him probably before he really takes that massive step into being a star. You know, we'll see how Cutter-Ga does in the NHL as a rookie. obviously Pavlvinchikov took big steps there that last year, but it's still going to take some time, maybe for him to become that true star level player in the NHL. So I don't think Anaheim's winning next year by any means, but I think they're putting together the pieces to where they could be a winner in the moderate term.

The great thing I think about Anaheim too is we talked before about how the kind of the easiest thing to find in the NHL is the small scoring wing. Yeah, they're very valuable, I guess, in the sense of they impact your team by putting up points. but you can kind of find them wherever, whenever. They're usually available in free agency. They're usually available at the trade deadline. They're usually available in the draft, even beyond the first four or five picks. Anaheim's put themselves in a position to capitalize on that. They have these like, and these are not players without big offense.

Leo Carlson, we expect to have huge offense. Beck at Seneca could have significant offense. Mason McTavish has shown he has offense, but they're not the, you know, they are the rarer profiles here, the two-way center, the big bodied wing or Cutter-Gotee, same deal, and he can play a little bit of center. they can now capitalize on kind of the market's valuation on the players that they're missing. I agree, but they're going to need to be patient. I think if you try to accelerate this too quickly,

they were still a terrible team last year. I mean, they were playing a lot of young kids. Like, they're not ready to win this year, probably not even the year after that. But I think when you start to turn the corner a little bit, that's when you could start maybe looking to lever some of those picks that you've used that maybe aren't going to play significant minutes for you or even future picks and try to add maybe those easier to acquire profiles that can supplement this core and maybe you're a little bit more on the veteran side.

And I think you could say the same on defense. Like usually at the start of a draft season, and I think we're at that point now, now that the Halenka's, you know, we had the Halenka. I like to kind of start to think of like what's like the perfect team player matchup in the next class. And if the ducks are to get like a top D like a Matthew Schaefer next year, look out. Because I do think they still need one more top D. But once they get that top D, I think they're going to be really a team player.

contend with. Yeah, but I think he could probably say about a couple of other organizations that are in this high range. Like, you know, what if San Jose gets Schaefer? What if Montreal gets Schaefer? You know, what if Seattle gets Schaefer? I think there's going to be a lot of jostling for that players. I think he's clearly the top defenseman in the next year's trap.

And I think he's going to go extremely early. All right. Number two is the San Jose Sharks who you just alluded to. And no surprise, the cream of the crop for them is with Macklin-Sellibrini. But as with Anaheim, and I think, you would agree with this. They are another team that really starting to get loaded up front. Maybe not quite to the same extent.

But when you talk about Celebrini, Smith, Eklund, Edstrom, Philip Eastet, they get Igor Chernoshov to follow to the second round this year. There's really a lot to work with in their forward pipeline. And depending where you think of guys like Quentin Musti and Casper Hal Tutin, too, who are excellent junior, though, not them are great skaters. They're definitely building something in San Jose. It's exciting. I think they're excited against Sam Dick is going to be 11th pick last year. So that helps supplement the D group. They'd only had Shakira McCommodoulin before.

But even though, while Stelabrini's, I think, could be a superstar in the NHL, and Smith has star upside, and Dickinson's a really exciting player, they were so bad last year. And to get from where they were to where they need to go is such a massive climb in the standings, whatever they got to add something like 30, 40 points to their team or whatever. it's going to take a lot of time. And so they will be back here next year. At the top of the pipeline rankings, at the top of the draft order,

and probably the year after that too, because even though this is an exciting young group, and I think as a group that you can start saying, oh, if we're building a contender, he fits in there, he fits in there, and they can plug in those pieces, you're still going to get to the end of that exercise and do like there's a lot of empty spaces in this depth chart still, particularly on defense and in goal.

You talk about Dickinson. I mean, how much work do they have to do to kind of surround him on the blue line going forward? I think he's going to be a really good top four defensemen in the NHL for a long time. You could be a shutdown guy against top players, but I don't know if he's going to run your first power play. I think that's the player type. And McCommodoulins kind of the same way, too.

I think they laugh the true offensive power play type still in their system. All right. Let's go to number one in that's Chicago. And this is a close, I believe, ranking between Chicago and San Jose. And really, if San Jose is the team. that gets it done with a massive volume of really good players. Chicago is really leaning pretty heavily on Connor Bedard here and as well, Artem Levinov and Kevin Kornitsky.

Yeah, I would agree with that. And I think when people get to this system, they'll get to like five or six and they're like, oh, you don't really have like the super high grades on, you know, Sasha Boyver, Oliver, or Oliver Moore, even though I think they're really good players who are going to have productive NHL careers can be really good two-way forwards in the NHL. But a lot of this does come down to the fit.

was a big believer in Artem-Lef Shunov. I know he wasn't the consensus second overall pick last year. That's where I personally had him rated. I think this guy had the potential to become a really impactful pro-defenseman. He has a chance to be a number one defenseman in the NHL. I think he has a lot of talent. And I think he could be a really good pro-defenseman right away. And obviously, Connor Bedard, the much-discussed, Connor Bedard, who won the Calder

trophy last year, very impressive all-round rookie season. you know, maybe it wasn't 80, 90 points we expected right away, but I think that's going to come very quickly, especially once they surround him with better players. And I, you know, Badaard is just so super skilled,

intelligent, the shot's incredible. I think I'll be interested to see how they build around him because I think there's still a lot of work with him in Chicago in terms of, you know, will they get him guys to play around him that have a little bit more size and bite in him because he's not that, big, even though he thinks he plays hard. He's not like a super fast skater either. So I would

ideally like to see them surround him with some bigger guys who can fly and go in and get pucks and maybe, you know, be a little bit more using those kind of two-way roles, which I which they have drafted in some part too. But obviously, Padard's upside's incredible. I mean, you look at the guys who are in this U-23 category. I mean, he's one of the only guys, maybe the only guy who you can realistically say, I think he can hit 100 points. I think he can hit 50 goals. And people don't look at you with side eyes. He has that kind of potential to hit those kind of scoring levels

and be a piece that is a leading member of a Stanley Cup champion if everything goes well with both his development and the rebuild. But the question is going to be, do they have kind of the running mates for him? And they've used the picks on the defenseman, which I frankly support. I agree with that. I think that it's their harder pieces to find.

are those top D. But it is true that when you look past Bader, okay, yeah, Lucas Reichel, like we expect to be a good player, Oliver Moore, we expect to be a good player. So I should be a good player. There's not that other star. And while I do know some in Chicago are worried that they've lost their chance to take that player, I do not.

I still think they're, you know, bottom three to bottom five team in the NHL next season. I'd be curious to hear your take on that, Corey. But that is really the thing that they need to focus on. Yeah, I would agree with that. I don't think they're, I mean, because anything's possible. You can get a hot goalie for a few months or something like that. And maybe Badaar does take that step this year. Maybe he's a 110 point guy.

He puts him on their back and they go with some crazy run in the season. But I expect them to be at the bottom of the standings again. I think other than Schaefer, this is a pretty forward, rich draft upcoming. And they will have a chance to pick a guy who can score and play alongside Bader in a significant role in their power play. We talked about matching player to team kind of thing. And if it's Chicago, I don't think, I mean, maybe James Hagan separates himself to the degree that you have to do it. But I almost wonder, like, is Porter Martone more of the, like, organic fit here just because of the size factor that they don't really have up front?

Yeah, I feel like Morton makes a lot of sense. I feel like if they take Roger McQueen, the Kirby Doc similarity to it might be a little tough. Yeah, he's a 6'4 center, right shots, skates well, really skilled, be inconsistent at times. plays in the Western Hockey League. I think like that might trigger some Black Hawk fans a little bit too much. But I think Fondell would be a really good fit there in Chicago too, potentially long term. You know,

he's an average side setter, but he's really good two-way. He's got a ton of skill, hockey sense. And obviously we were a long way from the finish line here in terms of figuring he's out. We'll see how Michael Misa's season goes, right? Maybe he can be a significant score at the high level.

Maybe they go with the Russian that they didn't get in Ivan Demetov. Maybe they go, I mean the re-abkin in next year's draft. We've got a long way to go before starting having those conversations. Yeah, but these pipelines are so good. I just can't stop myself from trying to add more to them. But that is going to do it for us. Thanks for listen to this episode of the Athletic Hockey Show Prospect series.

And this entire week of episodes, breaking down Corey Prondman's U-23 pipeline rankings, make sure you go read those on the athletic. They get way more in depth than we were able to get here just for time. But we promise Corey covered your team in much more depth than the two of us probably did this week. We'll talk to you soon.