The Athletic Hockey Show - NHL quarter mark shocks and surprises

Episode Date: November 20, 2025

At the quarter mark of the NHL season, Sean Gentille and Jesse Granger take a look at some of the shocks and surprising teams and players, including the Anaheim Ducks, Chicago Blackhawks, Detroit Red Wings and players like Shane Pinto, Jakob Chychrun, Cutter Gautheir, Morgan Geekie and Spencer Knight. Plus Hailey Salvian joins us from Vancouver on the eve of the PWHL's third season to rank the eight teams, including the two new expansion franchises in Seattle and Vancouver.Hosts: Sean Gentille and Jesse GrangerWith: Hailey SalvianExecutive Producer: Chris FlanneryProducer: Jeff DometWatch full episodes on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@theathletichockeyshowJoin our Discord Server: https://discord.gg/VTm9VjkFSubscribe to The Athletic: https://theathletic.com/hockeyshow Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the Athletic Hockey Show. What up, what up? It's the Athletic Hockey Show, November 20th. It's a Thursday. I'm Sean Jensilly. I am joined today. I always love a Jesse Day. I always love doing the show with you, brother.

Jesse Granger, how we doing? You had a late night last night, I heard. I'm doing good. I love coming on with you. Yes, I did. I had a late night. Anyone out there listening that plays Beer League knows how late those games can get. So yes, it was a late night.

but it was playing hockey, so no complaints. We're going to talk about, it's crazy, we're at the quartermark of the season already, officially hitting it tonight. I love those early morning emails from the NHL, from the NHL where they sum all this stuff up. 328 games will have been played at some point this evening, which means they will officially be at the quartermark for the league. We thought that would be a good time to take stock of some surprising teams. teams and surprising players. We're going to do that in segment three. Also, HALb,

is here to talk PWHL. Obviously, she's typically steering the ship here. Does a much more capable job than I. She is in Vancouver, I think, right now doing preseason work for the PWHL, just doing some, you know, bopping around place to place, checking in with those teams. We're going to check in with her. She's going to get you up to speed on the PWHL stuff in segment three. But to start things off, we want to talk about a couple games last night. We're going to start with caps oilers. It's a seven four caps win.

Jess, that was a weird game. We'll talk about the caps in a second. But I think we need to start with, since you're here and he's your boy, we got to start with what we saw from Stuart Skinner last night because it wasn't very good. it hasn't been very good this season. And it hasn't been very good in front of him either to a little bit of his like defense, I guess. The Oilers are a weird team. I see people on social media calling them the October Oilers because we get this at the beginning of the year every season for some reason. They, they can't get off to that good start. There's something about this team that they have to be chasing in the standings and they're already doing it this season. Luckily for them, the standings are like separated. by two points from first place to last at this point in the NHL. But it hasn't looked good. And they've been giving up lots of early goals to go back to Stuart Skinner.

It happened again last night. I think it was six minutes in. They were down two nothing to the Capitals. And it just feels like this team. I've watched a lot of Oilers games recently. And it always seems like they're chasing the score. And they've got the players, obviously, to do it. But it's not a recipe for to win a lot of games regularly in the NHL.

Like you're going to be able to overcome some deficits every once in a while, but that can't be the way you win every night. Yeah, and when you're chasing the score, like they were early in that, your margin for errors next to nothing. Because, like, they beat Washington at five on five in a lot of respects last night. They outchanced them 34 to 21. They won the high danger battle significantly expected goals easily in their favor, but it comes with a big asterisk, right,

that you give up to two early ones and certainly ones you'd rather, you'd rather have back. I thought that was a big game for the caps, too. I think they needed that. I think we saw some degree of frustration start to seep in there over the last little bit. Now you see Ryan Leonard scores twice. He'd been banging on the door.

They win a game, which is funny for Washington. They win a game despite not having that five-on-five advantage that we talked about, which is kind of the reverse of what we've seen from them at various points so far this season. They're a good five-on-five team, but they've struggled to finish and they've struggled at special teams. I think last night was, you know, in a lot of ways, the kind of game that we need to see from them. And we have somebody on their roster that we're going to talk about as a nice first, a nice first quarter surprise in a couple minutes. The other game we wanted to mention Wild Hurricanes, 4-3. Minnesota wins that one, but the story,

of it was Jesper Walsett, 42 saves, tied a rookie record for goaltenders. And again, we thank the NHL, as we so often do. We love them. We love the league. They do everything right. Longest shot out sequence by a rookie goaltender in nearly 10 years. He went almost three hours of game time going back to November 7th. That streak obviously ends last night. Minnesota ends up pulling it out for three over Carolina. But Jess Wollstett's a guy who we've heard about in some capacity over the last couple years. Certainly was a prime prospect. Some of the bloom came off the rose last season.

What are your thoughts on him? What have you seen from him? And what do you think about the wilds goaltending situation in general? Because obviously, he's in a bit of a timeshare with Philip Gustafson. Yeah, it's been fun to watch him. And it's nice to see him finally living up to. And I say finally, I mean, he's still a very young goalie, like especially for goalie terms. It's not like he's behind, but last year it certainly felt like he was getting behind in terms of his development.

It took him a little longer in the HL than you'd want for, for an, like, I wouldn't say he spent a ton of time there, but for an elite prospect, the way he was seen coming in. It took a little bit longer there. You end up, I mean, he stuck behind Mark Andre Fleury, so it wasn't like there was a ton of room for him to move upward. But he wasn't playing great in the HL. Like, he wasn't forcing their hand. You want a goalie that good to be just dominating down. down there and like forcing your hand like, okay, this kid's ready. Like we need to bring him up. He wasn't doing that. And some were wondering, like, is he ever going to live up to the,

the talent level that we know he has? And obviously, it's still early and this is only a few games, but it's nice to see it with your own eyes at the highest level. He's a huge Swedish blocking goalie. Most of these Swedish goleys play the similar style. They use their angles. They are, they're not super active, but they just get into blocking positions and use their big frame. And he's got a big one. and man, he reads the play so well. When he's on, it just feels like there's nothing to shoot at. He's, and he's been on lately. Yeah, it's fun to see.

It's fun to see a young goalie. And like, if you're the wild long term, Philip Gustafson, probably still the starter this year. I expect him to hang on to that. He's a very good goalie. And now you've got an even younger goalie who's finally showing the promise that you'd hoped. If you're the wild, you've got to feel really good in net for the foreseeable future. 879% percent in the HL last year. And that's brutal.

In 27 games, too. That's not a small sample size. That's a stinky season across the board. I know we've talked about this before, you and I, about how the AHL can be challenging for, for goaltenders in some respect. I know, I know you mentioned it in the,

I think we're maybe talking about Carter Hart and stuff he could potentially see in the HAL. Is Wellstett a guy, you know, based on his playing style and his pedigree and all that? Is he a guy who you can, can imagine is maybe more apt to struggle in the HL and then have some kind of light bulb go off in the NHL?

Yes, actually. I think he's like the prototypical goalie that is like better suited for the NHL. Yes, I know goaltenders. I knew it. See, I knew it. Yeah, nailed it. No, he is. It's because the plays are more predictable in the NHL.

Like for cerebral goalies who aren't overly athletic, like I'm not saying Walsett isn't an acrobatic guy. He can be, but that's not his bread and butter. His bread and butter is reading the play and getting into position. And when you get to a higher level in the NHL where these plays are like, these guys are actually doing what they're trying to do and the plays develop. And if you can predict it and stay ahead of the passes, you're going to look really good. In the AHL, to me, like if you told me what type of goalie succeeds in the HAL,

I think it's more the athletic, kind of responsive goalie who's not like reading the play, but he's just reacting to it. Ascarov in San Jose is a great example. Like Yesper Walsdet and Ascarov are both kind of in the same class. they're sort of the same age. Ascarov was just tearing it up in the HL. And that's because he's so athletic that like in the HL, you get broken plays, you get chips in front of the net. There's, it's, it's not quite as predictable. And you just have to react and use your athleticism and Ascarov. Like to me, those two are just opposites on the spectrum of style. And you

saw it with Ascarov dominating in the HAL. Now, Ascarov's also playing really well in the NHL. They're just really good goalies. But yeah, I do. I see a world where Walsstead just isn't built to play as well in that league. And now we're seeing him kind of living up to his potential with the big league. The other game I wanted to mention, this is, and this is it before we go into our quartermark discussion, I don't, I don't care about the Calgary flames. Like, we're not, we're not going to focus on them, on them necessarily here in this case, all due respect to Calgary.

He scored four times in the third period against Buffalo last night, four times. I want to say it's early for people to lose their minds over what we've seen from the Sabres, but it's not because it's of a type with so much of what we've seen from them over the last however many years. That's a, that is a humiliating loss, drives them down to the bottom of the Eastern Conference, which, you know, we've said it before. There's minimal separation between, you know, the second wild card and then and then the bottom of the league it's it's four points but for the savers to wake up again today at the bottom of stuff after that particular loss against that particular

team man that is that is incredible uh we got tage thompson he's he's he seems fed up we think we're better than we are we got too a little too high on ourselves after a couple wins we think we're better than we are instead of remembering what God has those ones, blah, blah, blah. So, man, stuff is, stuff is ugly in Buffalo already. Is it, are you, and should we be surprised by this? I feel like the answer is resounding, no. It's Buffalo. Yeah.

I mean, yeah. I mean, I didn't think it would get this bad this quickly. It felt like it would be longer. Like, it felt like we, it was going to be further into the season when they let us down. Like the way Alex Lyon was playing early and obviously he's not even playing really anymore. Now it's been Ellis lately and, and UPL who came back. and the things have just fallen apart for this team. And like you said, to lose that game in that fashion to a Flames team that we all view

as like one of the worst in the league, it feels bad. Feels bad. And I don't know, they've lost a ton of the, I think they did get one win in there to snap the losing streak. But yeah, it's just every night keeps getting worse for Buffalo. Oh, man. And it's the fans, I know we always got to be careful of using Twitter as any kind of true,

uh, true measuring stick for the fan base, but I think in this case, it's, it's about right. Like, if, if you just sift through the replies of anybody

who covers that team, whether it's, whether it's Matthew Fairburn, our, our guy in Buffalo or anybody else, man, people are just, people are just losing their minds.

There, it's, it's a broken record, man. This is the same conversation we've had about this deal. And then it turns into how much can the fan base take? And are they, like, are fans going to truly stuff?

stop going to games and then you start talking about the arena and all this. And in ownership, it's just that is a, that is a toxic situation. And again, it's November 20th and it feels like, even though there are four points out of the wild card, it feels like, it feels like they're done like dinner, man. In terms, yeah, in terms of the psyche of it, like from the fans perspective, do you think it's, do you think all these other teams that have kind of been in the same boat as the Sabres lately taking that step is making it worse for the Sabres fans. Like when it was like every year, it was like Ottawa and Detroit and Buffalo and Montreal and now like Ottawa made the playoffs last

year. Montreal made the playoffs last year. Looks awesome this year. Detroit is leading the division. All these teams that Buffalo's kind of been lumped in with have taken that step. And if you're the Sabres, you're still just sitting there. You're the only one that didn't of the group. Do you think that like makes it even worse for Sabres fans? A hundred percent. There was that defined second. class, let's say, in the Atlantic division. The question for how many years is like, who's going to step up? Is it Ottawa? Is it Detroit? Is it Buffalo? And two seasons ago or whatever it was, we thought it was Buffalo, like with evidence, with reason. And it's just one thing after another, man. They just keep, they keep tripping over themselves. And I think the thing

that makes that situation even worse is just, you know, there's 62 games left. And it feels like they're done. And a lot of that has to do with just psycho it really does. It feels like psychological wounds. It feels like psychological scars where it doesn't take much to completely knock the train off the tracks. Again, this is a team that's four points out of a out of a playoff spot today, right? They're right there. It feels like they're done. Incredible. It's the opposite to why I see here in Vegas. The Golden Knights have had a horrible start to the season. But because it's the. the opposite. Like because they always succeed, there's no, like, the players are like,

eh, it's not that big a deal. Like, we're, we're still going to be fine. Like, there's the, the fans, there's no panic. It's like, it's the exact opposite. And Vegas is just one example. There are plenty of teams that can get through bad stretches because they've had so much success that it, like, feels like it's going to be all right. Because Vegas is a team that maximizes its players. It maximizes that, like, a guy like Dorofaea is like a great example, right? Like, he's, he's been a difference maker for them. And it was, it was, like he appeared out of thin air to someone who doesn't pay a ton of attention to that team, whereas the Sabres, they have these name brand dudes in one way or another, and they,

and they don't hit the level that they're supposed to. And that starts with Tage Thompson, frankly. Like, he's back to playing center again and everyone, oh, in power, there's something not right there. You can just go down the list of all these guys that they've had that just can't, can't quite, I can't quite is is fair that don't come close to reaching their ceilings, right? So you just have this this culture where it's just multi-level failure, whether it's players, whether it's roster construction, whether it's ownership.

Like there's just, there's so many reasons to feel horrible about that situation. And, you know, again, November 20th, four points out of the wild card, it somehow couldn't feel worse. Pretty crazy. Anyways, apologies to all the. the Sabres fans who just had to listen to that. We're going to talk about good teams. We're going to talk about good players.

We're going to talk about players in teams who aren't disappointments coming up after the break. That's our plan at least. Stick around. All right. We're back. We're talking quarter point shocks, quarter point surprises. I think most of these are pleasant, I would say, between teams and players.

Right. We're not going to. And we went on the positive side. We're not going to focus on the negative here, except for one team. that just is burning me yet again. We'll save them. We'll save them for later. Jess, let's talk about the Anaheim Ducks.

They went again last night, four three. I feel like in some capacity, we've talked about this before, about, you know, the Ducks being a pleasant surprise and making that lead, but it bears repeating because they've been, they've been good in a lot of different ways, haven't they? Yeah. And I think at this point, I know Thanksgiving is like United States Thanksgiving is like one of those points where it's like if you're in the playoffs. Real Thanksgiving.

Right, right. When I have to remember my audience. But no, no, no. I feel like I'm already ready. Like that's like you're in the playoffs at that point. I know that's still a week away. I've been ready for, I think over a week at this point. The Ducks are a playoff team to me.

I would be surprised if Anaheim doesn't make the playoffs. I'll put it that way. They are one of the eight best teams in the West. I think in a Pacific division that's ripe for like Edmonton's off to a bad start. Vegas hasn't had the best start. L.A. doesn't look nearly as good. That is the division that leaves you the opening to take the step and the ducks have absolutely taken the step.

They've done it partially how we expected, which is with like young skilled players, Leo Carlson, Mason McTavish. Those guys are playing exactly. They're taking the step you expected them. But then they also, I feel like the bite that this team has been made. missing for the last few years because there have been points where the offense looks good, but then they go up against an old veteran, like good hockey team and they just get pushed around. But now they've got Kreider, they've got Goudis in there, they've got Granlin has

looked good lately. That team, the goals they scored last night are all screens and tips and like the type of goals that a young, talented team like usually doesn't score, the ducks look like a legitimate playoff team to me. And I think that they're like, they can beat anyone right now. I was talking to someone who's around that organization a lot recently. And the way they put it, they prefaced it by saying like, yes, of course, Joel Quinville was always going to add a bunch to the, to the group. But also like, oh my God, has Joel Quinville added a lot? Like, he is, he's the right guy to coach that team at the right, at the right point in time. Like, we saw it. And it's somewhat predictable.

right? Like I know when Dom and I were going through their season, their season previews stuff, we had to account for what Quinnville's done in the past and the kind of stuff he's added, he's added to the points that he's added to the end result for a lot of these teams. But man, for it to happen this quickly, I mean, they're already, they're already projected in Dom's model to hit 90 points, which is, that's playoff stuff, right? And that takes into account, you know, an outlook that wasn't particularly rosy, right? They've out kicked their coverage significantly enough to bank, you know, that many points and push themselves that far up, that far up the standings. It's, it's wild. A lot of it starts with Cutter Goce, by the way. We, we've talked about Leo Carlson plenty. I'm working on,

I'm working on a piece on him and Celebrini and, um, on him and Celebrini and Bedard that's, that's going to drop soon. You can't say enough about Leo Carlson, but I did want to single out Cutter Goce. Because I think, you know, and put him under the pleasant surprise banner. 12 goals, 11 assists. He leads the league in shots. I always love, I always love seeing a young player step up and kind of enter that discussion immediately.

He leads the league in shots, leads to league and shot rate. Like, this is a dude who's playing with confidence in producing in a very real way. And he's a fun watch, isn't he? Yeah, he is. He's confidence. like you said, green light all day. He's never seen a light that wasn't green to shoot the puck. And when you've got a shot like him, that's what you want.

It's fascinating because we were kind of talking to off air, and I mentioned like the Zegris trade and the Gautier trade were obviously totally separate, unrelated trades. But it did feel like a swap of young players. And it's cool that it's worked out for both. We're seeing Trevor Zegris in Philadelphia. Like he's still making goals. Lollies look like fools in the shootout, which it's like a cheat code. He almost shouldn't be

allowed to be in the shootout. He's so good at it. Like, it doesn't feel like it's possible to stop him. And but I've been watching that for however many years now. And I'm like, when is that going to show up in the real hockey? Like, and finally we're seeing it for Zegras. He's been awesome for Philadelphia. And then you see Gautier in, in Anaheim succeeding. I think, I think we all expected him to succeed. It's maybe not as surprising as the step Zegras has taken. But I didn't expect it this quickly. I thought it was still another year or two away. That's what the, that's what the, well, I obviously shouldn't say immediately. He was, he was in the NHL last year. But for him to level up like this in the second, in his second season, I wasn't, I wasn't ready for that. Zegra's two, man,

like you, you said it, but I just want to reinforce it, man. The substance that he's added to his game at five on five this year is, is kind of wild. Like, they're, they're winning his minutes across the board. And it's not just because he's a productive and talented and gifted offensive player, either. Like he's he's given them some good defensive results with him on the ice, which is, which is wild. He leads him in net rating. He leads him in game score. Like, he's been their best player in a lot of, in a lot of respects. And given what they paid to acquire him, you know, God bless Ryan Paling, he's a, he's a useful player. But just, you know, the package that they sent back for that level of talent, you know, and that level of potential, it was a risk they had to take.

and it's paying off in a pretty serious way here. I think what I like most about this season so far, honestly, is that Penguins fans hate him already. Like, that was when I knew. There was a moment at the end of a Penguins Flyers game a couple weeks ago where Zegra's, God bless him in, he did some ratty stuff in a scrum as the game was ending. And fans in Pittsburgh, which of course,

I'm based on base here. I speak to far, far too many of them on a regular basis. They were like F. Trevor Zegra's. Like the Flyers, the Flyers, Penguins' rivalry got like a shot in the arm from him alone. So I appreciate it, man. He's bringing a lot to the table. Let's go. He's made it.

We're talking about Chicago, too. And we don't need to hammer the Bidad point. We talked about him at length yesterday, Frank. and Sean and I, we're going to talk about him at some point again. Soon, there's no way to avoid the Connor Bedard discussion. Like, he's been that good. But, Jess, Spencer Knight, like, he's a huge, huge part of that, too. And I think he's a surprising player, and they're a surprising team.

Tell me more about what they've gotten from him and tell me more about, you know, what you've seen from his game this year versus last and in years past. Yeah, he's been awesome. he leads the league in goals, say it's above expected. And if he maintains that, then I think we've got, like, by the end of the season, we're going to be having the conversation, like, is he amongst the elite goalies in the league? Because he's so young, this is his first year that he's really been given the reins of a team. And we just talked about, like I said, it wasn't a trade one for one.

It was two separate trades. But we just talked about how that kind of worked out for both the Flyers and Anaheim. I can't think of a trade that worked out better for both teams than Seth Jones for Spencer Knight because Seth Jones goes to Florida. gives the Panthers a couple game winning goals. They win the cup. And the Blackhawks have their franchise goalie. I mean, I think at this point, Spencer Knight has, they gave him the contract this

offseason. He's come in. He's been awesome. And in terms of what he's shown this year, what I love from his game is, so he's obviously had super high pedigree the whole way. He is a very perfect technical goalie. Like he is the goalie coach's goalie. Like he, you could film Spencer Knight and make training videos, like how you want every

goalie to play each situation. The hesitation, like the goalie coaches that I talk to, the scouts that I talked to that had concerns about Spencer Knight, it's all about the, okay, but what about when the play breaks down? Can you, can you get out of that structure and can you make the save you're not supposed to make? He's a little too robotic at times. He doesn't, like, maybe he doesn't get over somewhere because he just doesn't like to break that structure and he's just so technical. This year, I've seen so much of that in terms of, like, the Blackhawks haven't been great defensively. They haven't been bad, as bad as they've been the last couple years, but they still have been kind of loose back there. And he is making the saves that you don't expect him to make. He's making

those sprawling, diving saves. He's made a couple glove stops, like, from his butt after a chaotic play. He is, he has looked awesome. And he's doing all the things that you wondered if he could do. He's checking a lot of boxes. The belief in Spencer Knight is, is super high right now. Almost 20 goals saved above I've expected. And you said, for a guy, who, man, that's a striking observation to make, honestly. Like, he's a guy who can he make the save he's not supposed to make? Can he deal in chaos? Like, what speaks better to that than 20 goals saved above expected, right? Like, that's, that says something that says something significant. And, yeah, and like, if the Blackhawks can

continue this, awesome, even if they don't between Bedard and these guys, at least you're seeing, at least you're seeing the future flash, like with Knight and with Bard. Like whether this fizzles down the stretch or not, at least if you're a Blackhawks fan, like the last couple of years have been like, you got to wonder like, is this thing, are we ever going to turn this thing around? And so at least there's some signs that these young players can be elite. Yeah, there's six two and two in their last two points in their last six. You got Scotty Powers publishing something this morning asking hypothetically if they should

be buyers at the trade deadline. I mean, Scott's a very rational and smart man. So he said, probably not. But the fact that we can even ask that question about this team is just it represents two steps up, four steps up. Like it was very, very necessary. Because if they had another season where they circled the bowl, there was going to be some tough questions that they're going to need to be asked about the players on the team, about the construction of the roster, whatever else. And they've been, they've been good. I wanted to talk about the Bruins too.

I thought they were going to be terrible, honestly. And here we are. They're in the mix. They lose Anaheim last night. But, you know, so be it. That's the way it goes. 12, 10 and no. Like, that's, I didn't think they would be over 500 at any point in the season, let alone, let alone after 22 games. A lot of that's because of Morgan Geeky, who is somehow morphed into David Posernock part two on that team. He's tied for the league leading goals with Nathan McKinnon and Leon Dreisle after two more last night, which is wild. A big part of it's Jeremy Swamman, too. I think we've seen a bounce back from him, haven't we? Yeah, he's been awesome.

And it's nice to see after the way the first season went. He obviously was facing a lot of pressure last year between losing his kind of safety blanket and Linus Olmark. All of a sudden, you're the guy. Then he has the holdout, which was, we don't have, like, ugly holdouts in the NHL very often, the way they do in, like, the NFL, for example. But Swayman's was about as ugly as I can remember from a

especially from a goalie recently. And then he comes out and has just a really bad season. It, like he just was, he didn't look himself. And then you start to wonder if you're Boston, it's like, man, did we how big of a wrong horse? Yeah. Right, right. And then he goes into the off season.

He had a phenomenal summer. I was talking to him when he was out here in Vegas. He obviously wins the world championship for the U.S. with a shutout in the gold medal game. Talk about a way to get your confidence back. And like, you don't win very much. as your first year as a starter, it's a guy who's been used to winning everywhere he goes his whole life. You win that gold medal with Team USA. You feel good about your game. He comes back and, man, he's looked good this year.

His numbers are excellent. I think he's top five in the league and goals saved above expected. And when I watch him, the eye test is even more impressive than the numbers have been. He is so, I mean, it's all these American goalies. They're all kind of the same. Connor Hellebuck, Jake Ottinger, Jeremy Swamon. They are so technical. Their positioning is phenomenal. they read the play incredibly well and he checks all those boxes he's been really good for the Bruins and that's kind of a sigh of relief

if you're a Bruins fan that like okay maybe this this super extension that we just signed him to isn't a total disaster this is the goalie that we needed. The franchise goalie looks like a franchise goalie. I think that whatever happens the rest of the year

if they fall off or whatever at least they're going to have that box checked again because yeah it was it was getting squeaky. there for a bit. We got to mention Detroit too. 625 points percentage. They're first in the Atlantic division. They're there because of their stars. They're there because they're best players. We're seeing a lot from Dylan Larkin. Max Bolton said that he's maybe having a career season. Certainly seems like that could be the case. Lucas Raymond's heating up. Moritz Ciders,

putting it all together after really two years of just finding his way in, in insane, like worst in the league minutes. Like, they threw him to the wolves two years ago in particular. Eased up a little bit, a little bit on him last year, but that's still been a little bit of a process for him, and he's putting it together. He's a number one defenseman. I think that's pretty clear.

They're getting good minutes from DeBringit also. I think he's second to Gotee in goal rate, which is big. And they've got young contributors, too. You know, there's actual standing pelica. and plenty of guys in that regard. Emmett Finney. Like, found money. What a story he's been. Yes. Seventh round pick. And like, we see, we see these late picks like turn into players, but not when they're 20. Like not doing what he's doing right now at 20 years old when he was basically an afterthought in the draft. It's been pretty cool to watch.

He's been awesome. They needed someone like that to pop too because they, everyone liked their prospects. Everyone likes Marco Casper and guys like that. But I think for, it to really work in any real way, they needed to get it from from outside of the prospect group that we've heard about for the last however many years, whether it came from a trade, whether it came from free agency or whatever, they needed some other element added to that mix just to kind of shake it up. And it seems like Finney might be that guy. I love it, man. Seventh round pick as a 20-year-old. It's good. And yeah, the team looks good. They're not doing it. Like some of these surprise teams that you expect to fall off, like,

it's because the goalie is hot and it's maybe not like the best goalie that you expect it i mean gibson and talbot have been fine they haven't been great so it's it's like it's not like this is a team that's running hot that like is due for a letdown in net um if anything i think they could maybe even get a little better from what they've played between gibson and talbot so yeah they're playing good hockey i think this team is i don't i don't know if they're going to end i mean that division is so competitive and it's like who knows what the panthers are ever going to be um but Yeah, they've looked good so far. I always love mentioning good players who maybe turn into great players.

I think that's something that's kind of overlooked. We like talking about the out-of-nowar guys who level up and show that they belong in the league. That's nice. But I also think there's something to be said for guys who go from a B-minus to an A-minus over the course of a season. I think that's what we're seeing from Shane Pinto in Ottawa. He's got nine goals, which is nice. He's doing it in absolutely hellacious minutes. He's been one of the best defensive centers in the league, like, unquestionably over the first quarter.

Like, if he keeps this up, he's going to get, he's going to get Selkevotes. And not a few either, because he's got the offensive chops to back it up and he's got the defensive results to really make it pop. 60% expected goal share. Top 10 in centers in net rating. He's top five in defense. the defensive net rating, which is serious, serious stuff. And Ottawa needed someone like him to kind of step up and add elite support potentially for the Stutzlis and the Brady Kachucks and the Jake Sandshenson's of the world.

They needed someone to pop on that next level and I think it's him. He's looked great. And I didn't know that he had that gear in him defensively, like without the puck. And I think it's kind of slowed down for a while there. He was leading the leading goals and then it kind of cooled off. but that part didn't really surprise me. Like, looking every night, he's got a goal or two. That part's not surprising.

But the fact that he's taking over games the way he has is, to me, almost like, I have to shift my idea of what type of player Shane Pinto is, not just how good he is, like what level he's at, but just what the arc type of player that he is is kind of changing from what I expected. Totally. Players are allowed to get better, you know, like they're allowed to change. And we have to adjust to that. I think as people who talk about the game and write about the game, you know,

and have to pay attention to a whole bunch of different teams. Like, it's easy to get a career arc or an archetype or however you want to put it. It's easy to pen someone in. And I think I was there on Pinto, honestly. I don't know that I took him as seriously as I should have. I certainly wasn't expecting him to make like a late Olympic push here. If you want, if you want like a bottom six player like him. I mean, and he's doing it.

He's going to fall short, sure, but, you know, the fact that he's in the discussion is, uh, is wild. I also wanted to mention Jacob Checkering. Um, I think he's a guy who fits the mold that we talked about before is a, is a good player who gets even better. And I think that's what, what we've seen from him so far. Um, I was talking to Frankie Carado about the caps last night because he had to, he had to watch them for, for work purposes at TSM. He was like, what's wrong with them, you know? My answer was, you know, basically a bunch of guys had career years last year and they haven't been able to duplicate it and Dubois hurt and Ovechkin was cold and blah. Like there's a bunch of different reasons why the capitals have been just blah for most of the season so far.

Jacob Checker isn't one of them. I think what we've seen from him is a player whose on-ice performance is starting to meet his reputation. Like, he was great last year, but he did it in easy minutes. And the question was always going to be, you know, what it looked like for him playing true first pair of minutes. And he's crushing them. He's playing with, he's played with Matt Roy for most of the last little chunk. 63 expected goals percentage with him.

Washington overall is outscoring opponents 21-9 with him on the ice at five-on-five. Like he's turned into a full-fledged, you know, multi-dimensional, reliable first-pair defenseman. And I think it was fair to wonder, good as he was last season, if that was ever going to happen with him. Yeah, for sure. And it couldn't have happened at a better time for the capitals in terms of, like, John Carlson is starting to get up there in age. He's 36 now. He's still playing heavy minutes. Like, it's not like he's taking a backseat. Like, he's still playing a ton for them, and he's still a very good defenseman. But he's probably reaching the point where maybe you don't

want him to be your, your clear cut number one. And the fact that Chikrin can step in and be that. And now, Carl, like, as a number two, as your second best defenseman, like, you're, you're pumped to have Carlson. So, yeah, I think the timing for the Capitals has worked out incredibly well with a player who's, who's filled that role for so long for this team, now finally being able to maybe take a little, maybe a half step back and let Chikrin kind of take control of the, like you said, the harder minutes, the, the tougher matchups. Yeah, I wasn't sure he could do it. He's doing it. He's doing it now. Jesse, are you playing hockey in the middle of the night tonight? Do you have a, do you have a, a, a, a, a.m. start or something. Great.

I think it's an 1120 start, but it'll be, we'll still be out there on the, on the ice when, when it's, when it's Friday. So, yeah, that should be fun. Scary. Good luck out there. Get some sleep. Thank you. We're all, we're all counting on you. Haley's, HAL is up with P-dub stuff in the next segment. Stay tuned. All right, we're back. Season three of the PWHL's start. on Friday checking in with a very sleepy

Haley Salvean from a hotel room in Vancouver where you've they rolled out the red carpet for you? Sure.

Expansion teams in Vancouver in Seattle. That's a big part of the storylines for the season. It's certainly

a big part of what you're doing with your preseason work. Is it not? Yeah. It's been a lot. So I made

this ambitious and stupid decision to write eight season previews this year. because expansion, right? I was like, well, if I do one preview story, I have to fit stuff on all eight teams in there.

I'm just not going to give people enough. It's going to be one sentence about every team, and that's just mean. So instead I decided to write eight specific previews. On top of preview content. I've made that. I've made similar mistakes over the course of my career. You do 32 of them, but at least you get to work with Dom and Shana.

I've been sitting in this. nondescript residents in for days. What's the address there, by the way? It's 1-2-3 Boogie Wookie Avenue. 1-1-2-2-Buggy Avenue is the address. This is my address, not Craig Custon's address. He's next door. He's at the courtyard next door.

That's where he lives, actually. It's crazy. It's a big secret. That's where he's bed? The courtyard in Vancouver? Yeah, exactly. Dad said he was stepping off for a pack of cigarettes and he'd be right back. He's got the Vancouver courtyard.

Yeah, he's been there the whole time. Yeah, I definitely, I should have gotten my intern, Mike Russo, to help me. He was great at rivalry series. Been riding solo here for the start of the PWHL season. Making coffee, carrying laptop bags, things of that nature. Totally, totally. I could have used a Starbucks yesterday and there was no intern to get me one. It was awful.

So not really rolling out the red carpet here. I'm just to be serious, though, it's been very cool. I've been in Vancouver for a couple of days, and I did a tour of the Pacific Coliseum, which is like this old iconic building here in Vancouver, and they've put $6 million worth of work to get this barn ready for the start of the PWHL season. When I say they, it's the P&E company has put a ton of money into it, new scoreboard, new lighting. We'll have a video kind of breaking down all that in a story that I'm working on as well, that'll have some video components, which I'm super excited about.

But like, it's just been so cool to see, like, this is truly a women's pro hockey arena in Vancouver. It's really a first of its kind. I think even the best women's hockey markets or women's hockey programs in the NCAA, like they don't even really have their own arenas because they typically share it with them. I mean, LaBahn Arena exists in the NCAA at Wisconsin. and University of Minnesota, they have their own rank. But, like, this feels different. It's bigger.

It's a pro building. It's going to be packed. There's full-sized Sarah Nurse, like, big stickers on all the podiums. Like, everything is decked out. Vancouver Old and I. It's, like, the copper piping. Yeah. The cop, you know, the pipework, like, on a ceiling in an old house.

They painted it, the, like, earthy bronze from the jerseys. So much detail to make this the Vancouver Golden Eyes Arena. It's been it's been super cool. It's the benefit from being the primary tenant, isn't it? That's cool that they're that they're doing stuff up the right way. Seattle, of course, Seattle is playing. Yeah, they had to play in Climate Pledge, which is not bad either. Stunning, yeah.

All right, I think the best way to get people ready and boned up on on what's going on in the P-dub is just go through a little mini power rankings here. of the now eight teams. So are you down? Can we do this? Sure. I typically hate doing this because now everyone's going to come back and tell me that I was wrong,

but I will do this. To do it every week, actually. With Dom. No, thank you. Number eight, please, and thank you. It's Ottawa. It's not hard. This is the bottom,

the top are quite easy. There's a mushy middle that's going to be difficult for me. I might freak out a la Kit Kat of 2024. For the OG Thursday listeners, that was for you. You know, you know. But it's the Ottawa charge. They just were decimated by expansion. I don't think there's any team feeling the pain of it more than the Ottawa charge. Like every team, they lose four players in the expansion draft, but it was star goalie emmerence Mashmire, top board defenders Ashton, Yeda Tera Lova, their second overall pick Danielle Sardakene. And then when free agency opened, Teresa Venetheva, who led the team and scoring and the only person who had more goals than her was Mary Philippe Poulin last season league-wide. She signs in Vancouver. Senor Cheyenne d'Arcangelo,

who was the second best goal scorer on the team, she signs in Montreal, which just blew massive holes into the forward group. And then Zoe Boyden, Ginsey Rose also walked, opening up more holes on the blue line. So the other than that, other than that, it was a pretty uneventful off season for them, yes. They have like, they have a goaltender who like really just dragged them through the PWHL finals. Starr turn, star turn from Gwen Phillips, wasn't it? Totally. Gwen Phillips is great.

they probably wouldn't have made it as far into the postseason as they did without her. They played in eight one-goal games. Like every game they played in the postseason was a one-goal game. Phillips was playing on her head. I think she's one of the best goalies in the world. And so I think Ottawa will be in the fight every night because of it. But I think they're going to play a lot of grind it out like 1-0, 2-0, 3-2-hockey games, which is kind of where they already were last.

year and this is where my big concern comes from, they were already playing in a ton of one goal games last season and now they just lost like almost half of their offense. If we put together just the goal scoring from Venetiava and Archangelo alone, it's something like 22 goals lost by them. And then between all of the departures, that's 34 goals no longer accounted for, which is nearly half of the team's total offense from last season. So it's easier to win 3-2-2-1 when you have Benicia, again, who's scoring at a pace that's better than everyone except for the greatest player on the planet.

And Cheyandar-Kangelo, who's just behind her. Those are significant losses, and I don't know how they're going to match or improve on last season. So they're eighth pretty clearly for me. sound logic there. That sounds like the team. It's seven. We have a team that has

second best forward on the planet maybe. New York has a lot to like, a lot of young talent. That's who I have at number seven. It's Sarah Filier. They have Christina Kelton-Cove, the first overall pick. They have Casey O'Brien,

who was the best college hockey player over the last two seasons for the Wisconsin Badgers. There's things that I like about the New York Sirens, but I think we need to remember that they are a retooling organization at this point. And retools don't always work in year one. They lost a lot of top talent in expansion. They wanted to retool the roster, and that meant losing Alex Carpenter, losing Jesse Eldridge. Gabby Rosenthal was a really useful middle six or bottom six center.

They lost their number one goalie in Corrine Schroeder. Pascal Deu traded Abbey Rock to Montreal. He traded Ella Shelton to Toronto. These are original roster superstar players that are on their way out. And now Pascal Deu, the general manager, is really handing the keys to Sarah Filier, who, like, is the second or third best player on the planet right now behind Poulin. And for my money, most of the first of the first. time it's Carpenter at two, but I think Sarah Filier can really challenge Carpenter with a big season this year. So there's a lot of young talent. They have a solid blue line, but I just think that this is going to be a

team that misses the postseason for a third straight year. I think they'll be more competitive. I think it'll be like New York. And so I kind of have my ranking in some tiers here. Like Ottawa is in a tier of its own at number eight. These next two teams are probably in their own tier. And then I've got like a mushy middle, like I said. I just, New York has some pretty clearly defined strengths and weaknesses. Their biggest strength is that they have seraphilié. And as great as cult he is, as great as Casey is, like these are rookies who sometimes take time to adjust to the PWHL. Not every rookie is going to come in and tie Hillary Knight for the league lead in scoring like Sarah Filier did last year. And I think it's unfair to expect Casey and Culty to come in and do that in year one as well. So I don't know.

It's tough. They lost a ton. Is Casey O'Brien the Philly linemate? For sure. I... That's going to happen, right? That seems like it should. I think it should. And I think my... Not bias, but I made my opinion. on Casey O'Brien pretty clear in the lead up to the draft. I thought that she should have been taken first overall. I think she was the best college player in the world. Over the last two seasons at Wisconsin, she won the Patty Kazmire last year. No player had more points than her last season.

She had 88 points in college last season. Won the Patty Kaz, won a national championship, just a historic final season. She's an excellent playmaker. She's shown easy chemistry over her career with elite winger of the Sarah Filier type. Carson Sims at Wisconsin. Daryl Watts at Wisconsin. Daryl Watts is one of the most productive PWHL players in the short history of this league. So I think she's a pretty perfect fit besides Sarah Filier.

And I think she is, look, I think Kyle Tonkova's got pro size. She's got a pro shot. I think she's going to have a very good rookie season. but if I was a better I think smart easy money would be on a Casey O'Brien rookie of the year award because she's just going to eat beside Philly A all season. But there's still seven. Yeah, right. They're great.

They're just the second worst team in the league. It's like the whatever. It's like the Macwin-Sellebrini is awesome and fun, but the sharks aren't good. It's fine. Maybe they're good. I don't know. Maybe they're good. the Hillary Knightless Boston Fleet

coming in at number six Yeah interesting How much of that placement is due to her not being in the mix anymore She's obviously in Seattle As part of the expansion process Yeah I think that's a huge part of it Because I don't really know Who's going to consistently score goals

For the Boston fleet this season They were in middle of the pack offensive team last year and a really top heavy one. Hillary Knight had 15 goals. That was like 20% of the team's offense. So with Knight in Seattle, there was only one forward left on this group that scored in double digits.

And that's Susanna Tappany with 11. Alina Mueller had seven. So you take Hillary Knight out and there's going to be a lot asked of Tappany and Alina Mueller. I think Susanna Tappany is super underrated still. I think she's going to come back and have another great season.

Like she, there's some days where I watch the Boston fleet and I'm like, Susanna Tappany is the best player on the planet. Like she's big. She skates hard. She can compete in all three zones. Like she's such a fun player to watch and she doesn't get enough credit. So like she's going to be fine. She's going to lead that group.

Boston's going to need a lot from Alina Mueller. They protected her not just over Hillary Knight, but over Hannah Bilka too, like super star winger for Teen USA. They have high-end pieces at every position, don't they? I mean, like, you have a good center and then you have Tappany, and then you obviously have stars at the top of the lineup defensively and a net. That seems like a reason to like them.

Sure. Like, I think Mueller and Tappany and Megan Keller and Haley win will pace the offense. But is that enough when we're talking about the teams that are above them? And that's the differentiation point for Boston, is after the superstars, I have a lot of questions. Will Jamie Lee Ratre have a productive season? You would hope so. She's awesome.

Like, as a human, love her. But she hasn't been the most consistently productive player in the PWHL. Sophie Shirley didn't score a goal last year. Teresa Schaftel. Like, there's all these question marks at Forward who haven't really been productive PWHL players. But yeah, to your point, Sean, like, I think Megan Keller is the second best defender in the world behind Renata Fass. Like, that counts for something.

Aaron Frankel, arguably the best goaltender, I would say, and Renee DeBien still needs to be dethroned in that regard. And it's not just because I'm Canadian. It's just because she's been there, done that for longer. Because you're Canadian. No, DeBien has better stats. Look it up. Her career numbers are better. So, Frankl is too good for them to be too bad, but I just have too many questions about who's going to score outside of their top players.

And even those top players didn't really carry the offense last year either. So you're going to need a bit more from Mueller, a bit more from Tappany, more offense from Keller, and then hope the bottom rises up to. Like, that's just a lot to ask. So we'll see. So we're into your second tier now. there's a dividing line between the teams we've already talked about and the team we're about to talk about. But you have Minnesota at number five, two-time defending champs.

You have them out of the playoff picture right now. I think that's going to surprise some people. So this is where it's tough, like when I was ranking them and then I realized like, oh, I've run out of space. Yeah. I was like, wait, I thought they were going to make the playoffs, but there's so many teams now. I have, I will just spoil it. I have Seattle, Toronto, and Minnesota in one tier.

middle here. Do I think Minnesota can get in? Yes. In the preseason, I am saying no, just because I like Toronto and I like Seattle just a little bit better. The thing with Minnesota, like, their forward group still looks unbelievable. They had the most potent offense in the PWHL last year, and they are going to pick up right where they left off. Losing Michaela Kaba stings, losing Brooke McQuig stings, but you still have Taylor Heise, who's healthy and confident. You have Grace Dunwinkle who's healthy and playing with her bestie in Taylor Hisey. You throw rookie Abby Hustler up there who's also big, who's also hard on pucks, can also score Abby Hustle.

Yeah, isn't that great? You throw her up there and she's going to be great. Kendall Coinscofield was the most productive five-on-five player in the league last year. She doesn't look like she's lost a step at all. They've got firepower at the forward position. Defense is a bit of a concern, which is probably why. I have them five below a Toronto, which we can talk about later, but like Toronto has probably the deepest or at least the best top ND. So that's the, that's the tie break for me between

Toronto and Minnesota who gets in. Toronto gets in over Minnesota because they have Renata Fast and Ella Shelton, whereas Minnesota just has Lee Steckline. Steckline is unbelievable, like still one of the best defensive sticks in the world. But they, They lost Claire Thompson. They lost Sophie Jakes. They lose Melissa Chana Watkins. Like the defense is a little bit of a concern. You lose your entire second pair.

You lose two or three defender of the year finalists. So Minnesota's on the outside to me because you look at Toronto again and Bernada Fast is still there. And they add Ella Shelton. Savannah Harbin's still there. Their second pair moves down to the third pair. There's way more D depth than Toronto, which is what gets them in over Minnesota for me. And their number four for you. Yeah.

Toronto. What are the Sarah Nurse exiting the scepter? She's leading the way in Vancouver. Like you said, she's got big posters and whatever else at the arena. What is Toronto going to miss with her playing elsewhere? I think it's the totality of what Toronto's going to miss. Like Sarah Nurse is going to hurt, I think. She had a great start to the season last year.

She was almost a point per game player before getting injured. So you're going to miss not just like one of the most marketable stars in the world, but just a really smart and versatile player. You know, like she can play up the middle. She can kick out to the wing if you want. She can be on your top power play. She can penalty kill. She's good in the face off dot.

Like Sarah Nurse is an all around elite player. And now the Toronto Scepters are, I think losing Nurse and losing Hannah Miller is pretty tough for their forward group. So now you're going to see a lot of play. players kind of moving up the lineup from depth roles. Like Emma Maltay is the number one center this year now, which she is someone who's been playing like a gritty forecheck position for the Sector. So you're immediately tapping. You're like gritty, annoying, fun player.

Like I've been doing a player poll. I can hint that here. Emma Maltay is a star of the poll. She talks a lot. People, like she's tough to play against. But we haven't seen her have this big offensive star turn in the PWHL yet. Could be in her wheelhouse. We've seen her play that way in college, but college was also a long time ago.

So right now it's looking like Watts, Malte, and Spooner are Toronto's top line, which is obviously very different than what we saw last year when we saw Watts, Nurse and Miller together a lot before Sarah got injured. So yeah, you're going to miss top line production and like a consistent. presence as a top six center. I think the Scepters look fine. Like their blue line is unbelievable. They move on from Kristen Campbell, who had a really big back and forth season last year. They're going to have a platoon with Elaine Chulie and Reagan Kirk instead. We'll see how that works out. But I just think the star of the show is having two of the top five defenders in the world on two different D pairs. Now your reliable second pair from year one and two is now your third. So the

the depth there is just unbelievable. Third place, we got the first expansion team. Expansion team number one. Seattle Torrent. I still don't like saying that. Not crazy about the name, let's say. I was doing a podcast with my pal, Chris Adonkin from CBC,

and she said something about how that just makes her think about illegally downloading music. And then she went like beat red and was like, Not that I ever downloaded music. You can tell, you can tell Chris, we're outside of the statute of limitations for that. It's like a year five. Don't worry. If they didn't, if they didn't get me, they're not going to get anybody.

It's okay. You're fine. It's everything's okay. Yeah, I think Seattle is an interesting one because they have a superstar core. Their top line is going to be unbelievable. It's Hillary Knight, Hannah Bilka, and Alex Carpenter. those three are on the top power play for Team USA at the Olympics. Like that that's a trio that could win gold in Milan if Sean gets his way.

And their second line is Julia Gosling, Danielle Sardakni and Jesse Eldridge, all players who are five, nine or above, who can all score, who are all tough to play again. So the top six is going to come in waves, have questions about their depth. They have a lot of players who were fourth-liners in the mix. Either fourth-liners or brand-new. rookies to the league kind of mixed throughout their bottom six, which... Unproven. Yeah.

Like, Lexi Agea was traded from Ottawa to Boston in year one. And I know there's a lot of devastation there because she was productive, but like two of her three goals or two of her four goals were on an empty net. So, or you have Natalie Snodgrass who scored one goal last season. So that's kind of their bottom six, which is what has them in the tier with Toronto and Minnesota, like There's a world in which Seattle doesn't make it, I think, if they end up being super top-heavy or their bet on youth doesn't really work. Like, I think Gosling, Sardakny, and Bilk are all great young players, but they haven't really shown their full, they haven't reached their potential yet. I think Megan Turner made those, those are savvy picks to me because I believe all three of those players will be top-line caliber PWHL players.

but if they still take some time and they don't get there as sophomores, then you're looking at Hillary Knight and Alex Carpenter really carrying the load in Seattle. So big bet. Not a bad couple players have. Sure, but also like those, but they just, they missed the playoffs last year. Like the teams that they led last year did not make it. So that's where the question comes in.

Obviously, they're great. They're all-timers. I put them both in the Hall of Fame immediately, including Carpenter. even though she got inexplicably left off an Olympic roster in 2018, whatever awful year that was. Yeah, it was 2018. She should have been there. But I still put her in the Hall of Fame.

I think they've got a great top pair. But yeah, like there was a couple bets on upside that will probably work out. But if they don't, the team's not as deep, which is why they're not in the top two and they're in a tier that could see them miss the postseason. Number two, you have a Montreal Victoire team led by a little known under the radar star by the name of Marie Philly Poin. Have you heard of her?

Vaguely. Vaguely. It's because you're nasty American. Yeah, I think Montreal looks great. This is probably the best that they've looked on paper heading into a season. I think they addressed a lot of things. that haven't worked for them in the playoffs.

They haven't always scored when it matters most, which is bizarre because they have the most clutch player on a planet on their roster. I don't think Poulin will be denied a third straight season. But Daniel Sobejo went out and did a ton of work this off season. I think it's important to acknowledge that she was able to do that because Poulin, Stacey, and Davien all took pay cuts. They signed extensions and shuffled some money around, so their cap hits are lower this year,

which gave Sobejo some money to go out and go to work. And with that money, she traded for Abby Rock, who is like by hyper fixation in the preseason. Like, there is nothing I'm more excited about than seeing Abby Rock in Montreal. Harry Rock on a line with Marie-Philippe Poulin and Laris Stacey's. It's the coolest thing that's ever, it's the most important thing that's happened to me in the last couple weeks, you know? Like, let's just be real. I've been in the preseason trenches.

I'm all in on the Abbey Rock experience. It's a very sad state of my life. But she trades for Abbey Rock. She signs Haley Skamara, who's like a really gritty two-way forward, someone who will thrive in the postseason. Chey and Archangelo, as we mentioned, one of Ottawa's best scoring players. But she can also be good on the defensive side of the puck.

She can P-K. She's a leader. like Chey and Archangelo is going to add a lot to the Montreal Victoire. J. Donny Landry, another gritty player. They have more depth. They have more versatility. They still have the best player on the planet. So I think Montreal looks awesome, even though they lost a ton.

And I think there's a world in which they're the top team in the regular season again. I just don't know. Like, it's probably easier to bet on Montreal being first because we know that they've been there, done that, whereas Vancouver, we're still looking at them on paper. But on paper, Vancouver looks unbelievable. They're your number one? Yeah. I feel like that shouldn't be spicy.

I think that was the point of the expansion rules is so these teams could come out and be really good. And Kara Gardner-Mory hit it out of the park. I loved what she did. When she was building this team, I think it was like second or third pick of the draft. She kind of went, quote unquote, off board and grabbed a Gabby Rosenthal. Or she grabbed a Denisea Krizhva who got traded back to Minnesota yesterday. But she started, she went for like depth and like middle six players.

And I was like, oh my God, she's saving money. What is she going to do? So not only does she sign Sarah Nurse in the initial period, she signs Claire Thompson. She signs Sophie Jakes. Like she gets the superstars in the first signing window. And then she leaves herself a ton of cap space to go out and sign Hannah Miller and Teresa Vinishava and Melissa Channel Watkins. Like she, I thought Kara did such a great job building this roster. They checked just about every box.

They have depthed all three positions. There is no major holes in the lineup. Like to me, this is the only team where I'm like, I don't love their fourth line. That's it. Like when I was doing my strengths and weaknesses, I was like, I don't have any. Yeah, they look great. You don't need to invent them. Like some teams are just built really well.

So you end up spending a little bit of time talking about something minor that potentially could be better and then you give them their due elsewhere. It seems like that's the case with them. That's an incredible group of players to just, you know, not pluck out of thin air because like there was intentionality to it. There was a plan on on Caramore's part. And there was also, you know, the rules that she was working with in. But still, just to see all those names on the roster is something else.

It's unreal. Like, I have Abby Boreen on their fourth line right now. And she was taking runs with Poulin on the first line in Montreal. She played with Taylor Hisey on the first line in Minnesota. Will Abby Boreen be able to be as productive in a bottom six role? I'm not sure. But, like, their top line is Sarah Nurse, who's the, Olympic record holder in points.

First line right winger is Michaela Kava, who has won six straight championships in whatever league she's been playing in. Like, if you just follow the Kava Cup, Vancouver's probably going to win because she hasn't lost in half a decade. And then the top line left winger is Michelle Carvinan, who's the best most productive Finnish national team player of all time, like hockey hall of famer on the top line left wing 35 years old, that's a win now move by Carrickartner-Mory. Like took her in the first round.

I was like, yep, thank you. We'll take the best finish player of all time. Yep. So Vancouver has all those players. They have one of the best logos, I think, to come out of professional sports in the last however many years. The golden eyes is a cool name. The color scheme's fantastic.

They're at the primary tenant in their building. That's going to be a destination. Yeah. If I'm a free agent next summer, I'm like, yeah, I'll go. Yeah, sure. Sign to play pro hockey in Vancouver. And like, it's such a great, when you walk out of the building, there's one gate if you walk out and then you go down the stairs. It's just mountain view.

It's like, I don't, can you see, I feel like you can maybe see mountains at Climate Pledge in Seattle? I don't remember. I haven't been there in years. But there isn't that experience anywhere. else in the PWHL, like the Pacific Northwest. And if the fans rally around these teams the way that we expect, these teams are going to be a destination for everyone. Seattle and Vancouver.

Those are two great sports cities. This is poor women's sports. It's hard to see it not working. How much longer are you in Vancouver? When do you leave? Saturday? I'll be here for the game. I'll be for the game.

And then I'm going home. I've been here for days. You're a Vancouver resident now. Enjoy your next 36 hours. I think your video just dropped out. So that was appropriate timing, I suppose. Haley Salvin, thank you. And thank you to Jesse Granger.

And thank you to you, fun folks, for listening to another episode of the Athletic Hockey Show. Prospect Boys are next on Friday. We're off for the only Thanksgiving to be celebrated in North America. Next week, Haley and I are back on December 4th. See you then.