The Athletic Hockey Show - NHL rescinds Pride tap ban, all 32 teams in action tonight and Todd McLellan's LA Kings aim to contend in the West

Episode Date: October 24, 2023

Ian and Julian discuss the NHL's announcement reversing the league decision on banning pride tape. They take a look at the Frozen Frenzy, which features all 32 teams in action tonight, a goalless Alex Ovechkin and what game they think will be the highest scoring on Tuesday night.Michael Russo joins to talk about if NHL game day skates should become a thing of the past or not, and LA Kings head coach Todd McLellan is Russo's guest and looks back on his 16 years in the NHL, the LA Kings trip to Australia before looking ahead to the Kings quest to be contenders in the West this season. Subscribe to The Athletic Hockey Show on YouTube: http://youtube.com/@theathletichockeyshowSigning up for Chime takes minutes. So join the millions of other Chime members and sign up today. Get started at http://chime.com/nhlshow. That’s http://chime.com/nhlshow. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the Athletic Hockey Show. Welcome to your Tuesday edition of the Athletic Hockey Show. It's Ian Mendez, Julian McKenzie. It's a jam-pack schedule, all 32 teams in action. We've got a jam-packed agenda for this show. We're going to talk about Frozen Frenzy. We're going to talk about Alex Ovechkin with no goals. We're going to talk about Mike Russo and a couple of stories.

Russo's been working on. We're going to hear an extended conversation. Russo, Todd McClellan. We got a lot to get to, but you know what we should have started the show out with today? Julian, I'm just thinking about this. As we're coming live,

I would love if we started with one of those big Uno reverse cards. Oh. Because that's the NHL has just done a reverse, right? It's a reverse. Oh, I know what you're talking about. On the Pride tape crackdown. It's been rescinded.

Reverse. Who would have thought that that would happen. Everybody. Yeah, duh, come on. Like, we knew this, the idea of them having some kind of ban on pride, but not just pride, because we've made that the big issue here, understandably, considering how this all came to be in the first place. But remember, there were other players who were very concerned about what that ban was going to mean for other causes and other specialty nights, right? Like, I think you do Claire went on record. and say, but what does that mean for Black History Month stuff?

Right? Like, this was a bad idea from the word go. And once Travis Dermit did what he did over the weekend, that basically kind of put the conundrum into the light here. The NHL was either going to have to discipline Travis and ultimately look foolish for doing so. Or they render their own law toothless by not doing anything. And they opted to just say, hey,

we're going to get rid of this. I know they're dressing this up as an opportunity for players to, you know, shout out whatever causes they feel are necessary, which I wonder, there's a part of me that wonders about that too. Like, I know we're thinking right now in the fact that they're just reversing the ban, but I'm very curious now if players are actually going to take that to the law and if they're going to, if that's going to bring light for them, like, hyping up some causes. Like, I'm really curious about how many players are going to actually take advantage of that change in the rule now and hype up some different things. I'm very curious about where that goes. Travis Dermott deserves a lot of credit here. And he spoke to Chris Johnston late Monday evening, walked everybody through his decision,

and it takes some courage, right? Because let's be honest here, if not for Travis Dermott doing it on the weekend in that Arizona Anaheim game, we're still in the same place, right? We're all thinking about how is this going to play out? What's going to happen? Who's going to be the first one to challenge it. And really, I bet you what I would have loved to see Julian is, you know, those times what's the phrase fly on the wall, wish I could be a fly on the wall. I'd love to be a fly on the wall to hear and see how the NHL reacted on Monday morning. Okay.

Okay, guys, what do we do? And they probably, and that's what you do in a good meeting, right? You do. You talk about all the possible outcomes and you say, well, what if we just stood firm? And whatever. I'd love to know how much was this debated or did they all just walk into the into the offices on Monday. It'd be like, yeah, you know what?

We got to do something here. I mean, the fact that we're at this point on a Tuesday morning, I have to think conversations have been had at least since they discovered the Travis Dermott thing. I mean, I still think that, you know, the NFL, the fact that they did this is asked backwards enough. But I think the fact that it had gotten all the negative press that it had gotten in mainstream media and then a player is openly defying it and you've opened the floodgates for other players to do it. Some conversation had to have been had between the Sunday and the Monday with the league. And who knows if everyone is in unison with it, but like, it's just a sign

that this league is just just the fact they didn't think this through. I know there's comments coming through right now as we're doing this. live they're suggesting the same thing. Like it's just, you have to give your head a shake here. The fact that like the league just put itself in that situation, it painted itself in the corner. It's really frustrating.

I can only imagine what it's like for, for fans of the LGBTQ community or other minority groups who felt that they were affected by this band too. Like, it's just stupid. It's just mind-numbingly stupid on the part of the league. And even if they're trying to make things right, by reversing things, they still have to take some licks here. That's, it's just really bad on their part.

Okay, and I agree. Josh wrote in here live and said, look, all it took was one player wearing pride tape. I'm supportive of the reversal, but how could you have a position so lightly held is what Josh is saying? Like, it's true. Like, it wasn't on the weekend, Connor McDavid and Nate McKinnon and Kale McCarr and Jack Hughes.

They all got together and said, no more. They capitulated on Travis Dermit doing it. And I mean, even if it was all those players you had just mentioned, the fact that any NHL player, if they put themselves in that position and that's all it took for them to bend, what was the point? There was no, there was no point in them instituting that rule. So I don't think it, I mean, the fact that Travis Germant did it, we have to give him his praise because again, there were players of higher statures and more security than him who said that, you know, as disappointed as they were, they weren't going to defy it. but the fact that it took any player for them to do this, for the NHL to be like, oh, crap, we have to reverse course here.

That doesn't make them look good either. You know, we have one other comment here from, I don't know if you pronounce this, Apresche, appresch. You're the French-speaking one of the two of us. Apres. I don't know how you, I don't know if that's even a French word.

Well, I don't even know. But the comment is they caved in the tape is back, time to keep pushing and bring back the jerseys. I got to say, I don't see that happening. I'd be shocked if they ran another Uno reverse card out and said they're going to go ahead and reverse that. I think what they tried to do was they went too far the other direction. Now if you allow players to show a little bit of individuality, show some support, maybe you find the middle ground.

I don't know. I don't see it coming back. That's just me. You, do you feel like there's any chance that jerseys are coming back? I don't think so. I think it makes them look even worse if it gets to a poor where they reverse everything back.

And then they're back to the initial problem that started all of this. What if you have players who say, hey, I'm not going to wear this jersey. What I think the league will end up doing, and I think they've sort of done this with this new ruling now is they're probably going to have it similar to what goes on in the NFL with the my cause by cleats thing where players, if they're able to support a cause that they feel

is worth supporting, then they have that option to do so. Just find a way to make it so it's down to the individuals and not so much as a team thing, which I don't necessarily have a problem with. It's just that this all started with teams doing this and hockey of all sports has been a sport about players kind of falling in line and being together as a team, doing everything as a team. And then the one time we see individuality from guys, it's for this. It's for guys saying, hey, we don't want to wear these jerseys that will make people from marginalized communities feel welcome.

And we just want to uphold our own beliefs, so to speak. Like, I'm not dumping on anybody's beliefs. I'm just saying, like, we're all at this point because. this is the individual hill that some of these players wanted to die on. And it's just, it's ridiculous. So I think if they got up to that point where they were a first course to go back to jerseys, that would just make it an even bigger mess than it is. And a presch says,

and by the way, we should, I always say we should be careful reading these names because you just punch it in the urban dictionary and you find out it means something else. I tried to look at it. It didn't seem like there's anything bad with that. Okay. Because a presch says it's not a French name.

but you don't want to know, L.O.L. And a press says also, I don't know if the jerseys will actually come back. All I'm saying is we should push for it whether it happens or not. Here's a question. We have 32 teams playing tonight. I'm going to set the over under at 2.5 players in the NHL who use Pride-themed tape tonight. Every team is in action. Wow.

2.5 over or under. Ooh. So it's like any player from those teams, two and a, two and a half is the line? Tell me, well, three players or more use Pride team tape tonight. I'm going to say under. I think it would have been more of a thing to have happened if the, if if nothing happened today, if we didn't see that under a reverse card, I would have picked the over. but now that we're at a situation where I mean the teams are playing but as far as I know there's no there's no Pride Night in place tonight

I could see every I could see more or less everybody just doing their own thing and not putting anything on their own sticks I'll tell you what if Travis Dermick got fined Imagine if he had gotten fined for what he did oh you smash the over on that too you smash the over really I almost go the other way in this sport I almost think, I don't know, I don't know what to think.

I love to hear from the viewers here. Got to remember at its core, right? Like the NHL, the NHL's players are still guys who don't want to create distractions for themselves. They don't want to rock the boat. There's still a healthy amount of players who will feel that way. You're not rocking anything now. You would have been rocking it on the weekend. I guess.

That's my point. Now you're not rocking anything. Try to the government rock the boat. You're absolutely right, but like, at that point, like people, it would still be some kind of talking point, I guess. I don't know. I, I, I, I'll tell say this. I'm picking the under, but I would be more than happy to be wrong. Like if everyone starts wearing it, like that would be really cool to see. But like I, I would be very happy to be wrong. But I would also be very surprised if that would be the case. Michael agrees with you. Says I agree with Julian. If it was in defiance, more would do it to support. other players and the cause. Okay, so 32 teams in action on Tuesday evening, starting with a 6 o'clock game, Alexander Ovechkin without a goal this season.

Wow. Oh, putting the O and OVey, taken on the Toronto Maple Leafs. Now, before we get to Ovechkin, I want to ask you this question. Sure. 6 o'clock local start time, Toronto, Washington. Why don't we have more games that start at 6 p.m?

And I know the answer is usually going to be television, but as a fan, as somebody attending to the games, attending the games and thinking about, would you, would you not think that a 6 o'clock local start time would actually make a lot more sense? Like, what would be the problem with a 6 o'clock start time?

Or is it too tight? It depends on what people get off work day. Is it too tight? Okay. That's my question. That would be my question, right? Totally fair. People get off work at 5.

You have to account for whatever traffic they have to deal with. Maybe they get home by six. How many people are going to go from work to a game? Some people like to go from work back home and then eventually make their way to a game. I mean, it's not impossible that people will just do that. And people work at different points of the day. So people end at 3 o'clock as an example. Then they have time to kill.

And then there's people who still show up at 6 anyway, right? Right. Like puck drops at 7. people are filing in at about 6 o'clock. So maybe it doesn't really matter that much. To your point, though, seems like the earlier, the better,

especially if you're bringing families to these games. Like, they're like, I'm just talking about with a colleague, uh, the other night about the 745 local start time in Calgary. And there's some other fact, and you're the opposite.

Yeah, there's actually some other factors to this too. So 745 start time. And there are a lot of people who would be like, okay, like I don't get why. And then you have to explain to them about the frozen frenzy thing. I don't know if you noticed.

It snowed yesterday in Calais. Yeah, in your in your city, it's snowed. It snowed. And like, this city is not that great with cleric roads. So could you imagine if you wanted, you're thinking of going to the Rangers game tonight, 745 start time, so you know it's going to end later than normal. Snow's on the ground. Maybe you switch your snow tires to this point.

Maybe you have not. There's already construction around this Coastal Bank Saddle Dome that has already made it a bit of a pain. to get around to get to the arena. Oh, by the way, the team is very mid. Nikita's a door off straight up said today, the team is playing like individuals. And look, I've only been around the team as long as I have. Fans are very frustrated.

I mean, ticket prices are still relatively affordable compared to other points of the league, but I can also understand if some fans might not want to pull up. And I realize I'm speaking for one city, but like, I can imagine there are other cities that might have other similar things as well, depending on that start time too. I don't know. It's just like I don't have a problem with it. It's just I'm willing to hear the other side with with some of those complaints about it.

But also in Canada specifically with Frozen Frenzy, like I'm kind of bummed that it wasn't made more of a thing. Like this was clearly directed towards U.S. audiences in order to get them into the game and you're roping them in with some kind of NFL Red Zone-esque product. And again, as we established yesterday, it will go head to head against two marquee NBA matchups in the Lakers and Nuggets and the sons and the Warriors, but I'm kind of bummed that it wasn't made a big thing in Canada where, you know, people across this country like watching hockey, even if it's just on a regional thing. But I think they would appreciate the fact that like they could watch Ovechkin versus the Toronto Maple Leafs. And if that game goes to an intermission, there's another game they could watch. And every team is playing. If you are in a fantasy league right now,

like you should be, you should have all these screens up. You know what I'm saying? Like, I don't know if you're in a fantasy league. I'm in a fantasy league. I'm, I'm loving. and the fact that like everyone's playing and I know there's going to be opportunities for me to play. I just wish that it wasn't just built as like a U.S. thing. I know I kind of went all over the place here, but like there's, there's a lot of thoughts I have about that start, about the start times. I think it's a good idea, but I just wish it was a bigger thing here. Yeah, we got a couple of people saying, uh, Joel says as a guy on the East Coast,

I'm all for six o'clock, Eastern start times. Our pal, uh, press is all over the comment section, uh, today. Trying to get the MSG via subway, uh, by six o'clock is a little bit tight. It is tight. I need time to eat before I go. I would love a 630 local time start. And then we've got one here from Michael Rousseau. It can't be the Mike Rousseau, can it? No way. He says 1 PM games for everybody. No. Is that our Mike Russo? He's not a fake Mike Russo. That's got to be our Mike Russo. Okay, if Mike, if that's our Mike Russo saying 1 p.m. for every game, we need to have a talking to with that man. I'd be all over that. I'd be all in for the 1 p.m. game. Yeah, you want to compete. I mean, then again, I mean, I don't know. I don't know if the NHO would like that. Ryan makes a good point here. You know, one of the easier things to do when you're playing fantasy hockey is when it's a quiet night, you don't have too many roster decisions, lineup decisions to make. You got a conundrum. Ryan's like, hey, counterpoint as a fantasy team owner,

I hate Tuesday night. Every player's playing. Got to make the bench decisions. It's too hard. That's fair. It's like an NFL. That's fair. NFL Sunday. You got to make the the right call. And like, hey, you could, you could bench Jonathan Drewa, and then he goes off for like a four point night, right? I mean, I ended up getting rid, discarding Jonathan Drone off my fantasy team, just as an example, right?

You like, I, my team is one in one. It's, I'm, I'm just happy with every win I could get. Let's, let's, tell you what, let's take a little break here. And we'll come back on the other side. We'll find out if it was the real, Rousseau or not, we'll take a break. Mike Rousseau joining us on the other side of the Tuesday edition of the App on a Concoachian.

Let's find out, Julian, real Mike Rousseau or fake Mike Rousseau? Well, first of all, that's the first ever comment I've ever made on YouTube. So you should have seen how hard it was for me to figure out how to do it. So I am a dinosaur. I've been, I'm like trying to like work that. I felt like I was a great. grandfather or something. Like it was absolutely like the old man trying to figure out an app type thing. But you should have known it was me because everything for me, you got to always know

it's always going to be selfish. You know, one game game, you're right, you're home by five. You can have a nice dinner. I don't care about the fans or what's good on TV. It's about what's good for the beat writer. So. Yeah. Counterpoint, counterpoint. You still want that in effect for Sunday when the NFL is on? No, I could point. All right, 7 p.m. games for Sunday. Actually, yeah, we have a 5 p.m. game in Jersey this week. I'm super excited for that, especially when Dean said today, no morning skate that day. So get an extra little time in New York City.

What do you stand on no morning skates, by the way? This was something we're talking about off air. I'm just curious off of those comments from Dean. Like, where do you stand as a morning skate journalist person? Well, I get, well, all right. So it's different again from a journalist standpoint to what the, again, Everything's selfish, right? For me, it's valuable because that's where we get the most access to players.

So I absolutely don't want them to get rid of it. But, you know, I get what all these coaches are saying. Like, I know it sounds probably dumb to the average fan, the exhaustion of having to go down to the rinko, boo-hoo, and put on their uniform and gear up and that whole mental thing. And I think that when, you know, Torts first brought this to everybody's attention when he was with Columbus, I think everybody kind of rolled their eyes. But I do get it. And I think that they think that it's a waste of time.

But there's certain players that just feel like they need touches in the morning, obviously to work on sticks and things like that. So since the wild or one of many teams now that does optionals pretty much every single day, they at least take advantage of the morning where they do video sessions and at least one of their special teams meetings before doing the second one before the game. But, you know, I personally don't want them to go away because that's when, And, you know, that's when you really get the ability to talk to players and work on, you know, work on stories that you're going to write in the future.

You know, you mentioned those are critical times for video meetings when the players go in. We've got a viewer here, listener, Joel, who wants to know, has a video-related question for Mike Russo. Ask Russo if he knows how to stop the VCR from flashing 12 o'clock. Actually, that's really funny because I have an automated timer light system and I cannot figure it out right now and it's just flashing and flashing flashing. So I need him to come over and teach me this stuff. I'm usually not this terrible, but, but yeah, figuring out how to comment on YouTube,

I just thought it would be a funny thing to throw at you. And it took me a good five minutes. I was like sitting there like, so. Who was the last time because I've seen a VCR? That's a good point. Great point. I found some VHS tapes the other day.

I found, all right, again, to date myself, I found Mark Parrish's rookie of the year promotion tape from the Florida Panthers the other day. So if anybody wants this, you know, five bucks. Just send it, you know, send me a Venmo or a chime. Send me a chime. And yeah, and then I'll send you this, this, I think, 9798 Florida Panthers, Mark Parrish tape. Oh, my God. That's funny.

You know what's scary about that? What? You know what's scary about that because I am as obviously old, but I actually remember every single facet of Mark Parrish's rookie season. I remember the two goals he scored opening night, the first ever game at National Car Rental Center or Florida Live Arena or whatever the heck they call it now. I remember the fight he got into Ricard Pearson that season, who's actually the Wilde's director of European scouting now, coincidentally. Yeah, I had a blast covering Parrish that rookie year documenting it. I thought he was going to be an absolute superstar. Still had a great, great career.

Yeah. I want to ask you this, Minnesota is playing Edmonton tonight, and that's a fascinating game, just given where Edmonton's at. I'll ask you guys, we had a busy night. All 32 teams are playing 16 games.

If you had to pick the high, what's the highest scoring game? What's going to be the game that has the most goals? You know, I'm going San Jose, Florida. That's my pick. San Jose, Florida is going to be a 6-5, type of game. If you guys had to pick the one game that you think is going to be

the most entertaining, high-scoring game on the docket tonight, where are you going? Well, honestly, it could be this one here. Both teams having trouble keeping pucks out of their net. The Wild right now have been absolutely abysmal defensively. And I'll tell you, I mean, Jay Woodcroft and Dean Everson echoed each other this morning in talking about how they both just feel that they're better than their record.

But just right now, just cannot, every single big moment of games, they just seem to be floundering. So honestly, it could be right here. As Julian was saying before about start times too, 8 p.m. here, not loving that one, you know, especially with, although I guess it's better than most wild start times in the playoffs, which is usually about 8.50. But, you know, with an early flight to Philadelphia this morning, again, it's about me. I would have rather the, you know, the different times, I would have rather the 6 p.m. tonight. I'll say this, this might be a bit obvious. to look at, but I see it on the schedule,

and I have to pick this out. Carolina and Tampa Bay are playing off against each other tonight. And I still can't believe this. Those two teams are one and two in goals allowed this year. It might be it obvious, but also a bit surprising. Maybe that's the game that's the highest score

because it seems like those two defenses or just the goal tend and just isn't there for that. Yeah, I think Carolina is going to figure it out. Tampa Bay, obviously, without Vasilevsky right now, it's a bit of a chore. but Carolina to me is the most shocking team in the league from that standpoint, maybe from a win standpoint, Detroit and how well they've been right now. But, you know, I always think, and I've felt this really the last four or five years.

I don't know what it is about early in the season, but it just feels like teams are super, super sloppy. And I don't remember this back of the day when I first started covering the league. It felt like it was much tighter back then to start seasons. And teams almost had to work their way into scoring. Now it's the opposite. The mistakes they play they make in their D-Zone are just unbelievable at times. And just stupid mental mistakes that they make.

I covered a game here in Minnesota where a defenseman dumped the pocket on three on three the other night in overtime. It just seems like right now Carolina is in that position where they just sort of can't figure it out. But with Brindamore there and their incredible blue line and as good a veteran team as that is, I think that once Freddie's back in that, things will settle down for them. I wonder, oh, sorry, you go ahead. No, go ahead. Oh, cool. I was just going to, I'm working on a story with Flourinzawa now about why teams are starting to bring in zone coverage as opposed to man to man marking on defense.

And like Edmonton and Calgary are two teams that are struggling to adjust to that now. Boston seems like they're having a much better time with their record. I'm also just curious if there are other teams or if that could be a reason why some teams are having some of that sloppiness. but I mean, I'd love to know your vantage point on that. Yeah, I mean, it wasn't at Colorado a couple years ago. I think they changed their blue line and they had a tough start at the very beginning of just getting adjustment. I mean, it's adjustment. It's when you're used to a certain de-zoned coverage and then somebody comes in and changes it up,

especially as drastic as man-to-man birth to a zone or something like that, it's very tough. And you see that all the time with new D-coaches as well or just a new head coach and a new system that comes in. So that could be part of the adjustment right now. I mean, obviously that's not Carolina's excuse or Tampa's. I mean, two of the most tenured coaches in the league. But it just seems like early in the year there's just been a lot of sloppiness out there. And as we know, teams will tighten up. The Wild, in particular, to talk about them specifically,

they were in this exact situation last year where they gave up 20-something goals in the first five games. And then, you know, Dean pulled back on the reins and they figured it out. And my guess is that they'll do it again at some point this year. The only difference is that their blue line right now is an absolute calamity with the injuries that they've got with Ghalagoski, especially Spurgeon out of lineup. It's just re-tavoc on their blue line, especially without Dumbah here. You know, Dumba here brought such a, you know, a consistency back there. Jonas Burdine and him were just, you know, they were joined at the hip.

And now I think Brodine's having trouble getting used to different guys. Middleton without Spurgeon, it's getting having trouble as well. So we'll see how they figured this out. And the wild, I think we kind of saw some of their defensive issues the other night, right? When L.A. came to town, it was 673 that L.A. paced them. And you had a chance to chat with Todd McClellan. And we're going to throw to that chat here in a second. But before we do, Mike, last week you got us Bill Zito, general manager of the Florida Panthers.

This week, it's the head coach of the L.A. Kings, Todd McClellan. Julian and I were saying if you're going to be contributing so regularly in this fashion, giving us conversations with some of the biggest names in hockey. We said we need a segment name for this. And I threw out the idea, what did I say, Mike check? Yeah, Mike. That's a good one. Yeah, Mike.

Yeah, I like that. With the biggest names in hockey, it's called Mike Check. I think that's actually perfect. So, yeah, I'm all for it. Okay. Well, why don't you say? I already got next week's planned doing it Thursday. Keith Jones, the president.

I'm going to call Mr. President of, of the Philadelphia flyers. So I'm sitting down with him before the game on Thursday. So I'll be sending that to you. Look at this. Yeah, it's perfect. So why don't you set up for the listeners this week's Mike Check? And give us a sense of Todd McClellan.

Interesting, right? He gets the contract extension. LA is an interesting team. I feel like they're close to being a Stanley Cup contender, but they're probably not a heavyweight, but they're right kind of in their window. So take us through what this conversation is going to be all about. Yeah, I think the big thing with the,

with the LA Kings that I find fascinating. And I'll be interested to see if it happens this year. Are they comfortable with their goaltending? Obviously, Phoenix Copley in the second half last year, and the playoffs was outstanding. But you know, you covered Ian Cam Talbot last year in Ottawa. He's on the back nine of his career. He certainly was here his last year in Minnesota.

And it just is that going to be good enough for a team that I actually think could be a true contender if they want to be. They're growing, you know, this is a time we taught and I talk about how this is no longer, you know, guys like Kaliev, Byfield, they're no longer kids. It's time for them to step up. You know, what I find really fascinating about Todd McClellan is that, you know, we joke about me being a dinosaur, and I've covered the league now 29 years. He's been a coach for 30 years. He worked with Mike Babcock. That's how he got to start,

really, in the National Hockey League. And here he's been a 16-year head coach. And for him to have to transition to the new school ways of being able to treat young kids, you know, really with esteem. Coach, really incredible players like Connor McDavid early in his career and Drys Eiddle to what he's, you know, personality is like Kevin Fiala, which I know really well. You have to adjust your thinking. And he seems to continue to do a really good job of it, got a contract extension going into the season to align him with Rob Blake. And I think he realizes that now is the time that the L.A. Kings have to figure out a way to get by Edmonton, but figure out a way to be a true

contender in the Western Conference. And that's a lot of what we talk about on this call. On the side. Nine years, man. Yeah. Isn't that crazy? That's great. I'm not going to. I just thought about, I just hearing 29 years and that just blows my mind.

You've been. I mean, look, you keep doing great work all these years. Just 29 years, man. Julian. Why are you surprised? Guy just talked about having a VHS copy of Mark Perches. I'm not surprised. I'm more just like, you know, just kind of amazed.

You feel sad for me? No, I don't feel sad at all. I'm just not going to tell you how old I am. trust me, I deal with it every time. Trust me. It's like a couple years ago, I didn't feel this old. Now it's just every day. I'm like, oh, my God, I've seen it all in the league, you know,

like even just the whole pride tape thing. Like, none of this surprised me. You know, it's just like, you've covered this league so long. You just know eventually they're going to have some missteps. Yeah. Yeah. By the way, if you ever feel a point where you're, with us and you have to like go on a really good like rant and really got a seer into somebody.

We have Mike check for the interviews. Yeah. I think we should call it Mike Drop if you have to do a rant. Yeah, yeah. Well, we call it here in Minnesota Russo's rants. And, uh, yeah, that works too. Yeah, no, trust me. I've, I've made a career out of just losing my mind on Twitter in columns.

Uh, yeah. So anytime you need me to just go off on something I can. Well, hey, listen, uh, thanks for, uh, for, this. We're excited to listen to this conversation with Tom McClellan. We look forward to for you and Keith Jones for next week. So safe travels to Philly after covering the Tuesday night game and we'll get you again next week. Yep. See you guys. Keep up the great work. Thanks so much. There he goes. Mike Russo, one of the best in the absolute best in the business. And we're looking forward to this. Here is a conversation runs just over 20 minutes between Mike

Rousseau and L.A. Kings head coach, Todd McClellan. National Hockey League season, you've been a coach for probably 30 years now, right? 93 is when you first started, Todd? Yeah, we were starting in North Battle for Saskatchewan, so we're 30, 31, 32 years somewhere in that range. I don't even know how many now, but a lot of miles. Yeah, and we're recording this in Minnesota where you got your professional start, left juniors and became the first the Cleveland coach here with the Expansion Wild and then the Houston Arrows. And it really did. I mean, your path started to hear.

And I was just listening to you talk to the media and you talked about those times with Jacques Lemaire and Doug Reisbrown really kind of getting to realize what it's like to be a professional coach. I was very fortunate that the expansion franchise, the Wilde and Columbus both came into the league at the same time. But Doug Reisbrough and I had created a relationship a couple years earlier. And I was a very young coach in the Western Hockey League. he approached me about taking the job in Cleveland.

And at the time, I didn't know how grateful I would be. I thought I was just getting an opportunity to go on. But as I have aged and I've thought back to those first few years and the mentorship I received from Doug primarily, Jacques was busy with his team. But from Doug and the lessons that he taught me, at times I thought he was crazy. I really did and didn't buy into everything. I can tell you that. But now when I look back, I have sent him a few texts and been able to thank him because my career was in his hands for a long time.

And he did a real good job, I think, of helping me out. It's so funny that you said it because I have the same, you know, a different hyper relationship from covering a dog. But I look back at all the times that I had with him and those, you still kind of almost want to thank him because there's those times where you realize like, yeah, we were quarreling over certain stuff, but it really taught me a lot about the game. Well, and I think he understood that. He was far enough into his career that he understood all the nooks and crannies and the ups and downs that go with it. And in some sense, he wanted you or I to experience them, but also he wanted us to guide, or he wanted to guide us through them. And when you're in the middle of it all, you don't always understand that. And you don't always agree with what he's doing.

But, you know, there's a saying about the wise old man. And I'm not calling Doug Old at that time. But he was much more experienced than I was. And he was willing to share his experiences in whatever way so that I could become better. And obviously, you could become better. Yep. You go on, you win a Calder Cup with this franchise in Houston in 2003. Then go to Detroit, win a Stanley Cup and his assistant there.

And then you begin your path here is a 16-year now, NHL head coach. How has everything changed? Because the biggest thing has got to be, this is a different type of hockey player. now. I mean, you got to almost coach very differently some of these young guys. Yeah, you do. And we're in a different world right now, too. It's not just hockey. It happens in households. It happens at schools. It happens in playgrounds. But the game has changed in a lot of different ways, the technology, the coaching tactics, the video analytics, all that type of stuff has entered in. And just basically, since I came into the league, the players are more skilled.

the composition of teams is put together significantly different than it was in the past. So there's a lot of changes that have happened, but what's common is everybody wants to win. And the difference between winning and losing is sometimes just a simple mistake that you train for over and over again. And you make the mistake or else you take advantage of the mistake at a certain moment in the game and you move on. And I often tell young coaches, you guys are dealing with the exact same thing as we are in the NHL. It's just that we have the best in the world and they make a lot of money doing it. Tell me about Australia. What was that whole experience like?

You're still wearing your hoodie from the Global Series in Melbourne. Watching it from afar, it looked like a blast. Have you ever been to Australia before, first of all? No, I haven't been. And I am glad that I got to go. I'm looking forward to going back as a retired individual with my wife later on in life and really seeing what we need to see. The trip for me happened basically in three different phases.

There was the, hey, we're going to Australia and I'm going, no, we're not. Training camp and the excess baggage that comes with it as far as travel, nights in the hotel, lack of practice time, fatigue, the casualness, because it is a different world and you want the players to experience the culture and everything else that goes with it. So that was the initial phase. Let's not do this. When we committed to doing it, it was, okay, how are we going to do it properly? Right.

And so it took a lot of planning. I thought our science department, if you want to call it, did a real good job of setting us up for some success there as well as the return. And then the best part was once we got there, it wasn't fun flying for 17 and a half hours and doing all those types of things. But once we got there, we got to see a beautiful city, great, unreal people, Midwest-type people. a very safe city, very clean city. You know, there's things that we could take just from their culture and the way they, they behave there. I think we could implement it in our world.

The fan base was really unique because you saw all 32 jerseys. You saw different players represented by fans wearing their jerseys. And when the game started, every seat was taken. And they appreciated good hockey, good plays. They enjoyed the atmosphere. They created a good environment, which often happens when you go to Europe, but not always. And I thought it was a real good experience that way. And the last thing was the footy that we went to, the Australian Football League.

Semi-final game was really neat. We get to be around Major League Baseball, the NFL, MLS, you talk about NBA. It's common to us. We can go watch games, but none of us had been to that type of game. and in that type of environment. So we quickly became fans for the first time, pure fans and not just players in another sport. And I thought it was tremendous for our group to go through that. Let's talk about the Kings here.

You're trying to make a big step this year. I think a lot of people are looking at you guys as a true Western conference contender. Right away, you start off the season, Calliyev is suspended. You have run into the same cap trouble that so many teams are facing it. You have to go with 11 and 6 before you put Arvinson on LTI. Like Dean Eveson was talking the other day about how as a coach, you just got to do your job. You can't worry about the cap, almost like the minorly coach. Whoever's in your roster that day, you just coach, is it hard to not get stressed over stuff like that?

Well, you know what? Coaches are, we're always wanting more. We want better players. We want more players. But more isn't always better. Sometimes having less is fine. And players are always better. begging for ice time, they're begging for more shifts, they're knocking on your door,

wondering why they don't get to go in certain situations. Well, when you have to go down to 11 and 6, everybody gets to play and there's no excuses. What I have felt with our team anyhow, with going into it is it's thrown off our rhythm a little bit. Practices when you're down, sometimes we've been down two players at practice. All of a sudden, you're down to three lines and six defensemen. You don't get what a typical practice would be. In the game, trying to piecemeal lines together. You don't often run with 11 and 6 or 11 and 7. That type of rhythm, especially early in the year, can be a little bit confusing.

But all of us, Dean, Todd and everybody else that's coaching in the league knows that there's a good chance our teams or their teams could end up in this situation. And we have no excuses. We've got to find a way to get it done. And I think Dean's approach is a real smart one. Whoever's wearing that uniform has to get the job done that night, no excuses. Right. You make the big trade for Pierre-Luc Dubois.

Last week in Winnipeg, he gets the big goal there. Would have been the winning goal almost. What was that whole experience like, do you think, for him? And what kind of impact has he already made for the Kings? Well, you know, first of all, his impact's been significant. He's been a real good student. He's picked things up real quick. He's fit our team real well.

It maybe didn't appreciate the amount of skill that he brought to the table. We knew he was big, heavy, and hard and that type of stuff, but his skill level is really high. So he's complimented our team really well. The experience of going back to Winnipeg for him was, I think, won a joy. He had some really good years there. He enjoyed there. Never once he's knocked on my door, have I heard him talk to any players about anything negative about his time in Winnipeg. But what he has done and what many players can do is earn the right to pick where he wants to go next.

And there's nothing wrong with that. That's called free agency. And that's what the players are working towards. We see it in so many other sports. I think we're just going to start seeing it more in our game. And he chose to go elsewhere. But the ability to go back there and see his old teammates embrace him. It means that they cared about him and he cared about them.

and to me that's a real good indication of what he meant to their team and now what he means to our team. Right. And who wouldn't want to go to L.A.? Another player that essentially picked his spot, even though it was via trade is Kevin Fiala. Rob Lake has a knack of finding those players that want to be in L.A. I think both teams, probably Minnesota and L.A. are happy with this trade right now. Brock Favors come to Minnesota. It's done a great job.

They got a first round pick that they think they hit on as well. What does Fiala made in terms of an impact with you? He's somebody that could really be so skilled, so competitive, add so much speed. And he does do all of those things. You know, Kevin is a very unique player. We're a very structured team. We're a team that has to rely on the sum of its parts. We're a team that has some predictability to it, especially from the checking side of things.

Kevin enters in and he's dynamic. He, he's the, we have a number of them, but he is the one individual that can really make something out of nothing. When you, when you're not sure what's going on in the game and pucks are bouncing all over the place, 22 has it, he's coming out of the pile, he's making a player, he's 10 and 2 with his skates and something's going on. So, you know, he provides that unpredictability for us offensively, that dynamic playmaking ability for us offensively. And this organization hasn't had that in a long time. So it just adds a brand new ingredient to the whole recipe. Yeah.

Is he tough for coach? Like, you know, Dean and him had their battles here in Minnesota, you know, with the penalties and things like that. Well, he's, you have to almost accept it. Well, I don't think you have to accept it because you've got to hold people accountable. And I can tell you when we hold, and we do hold Kevin accountable. When we do, he knows. He knows some of the situations that he's put himself in or the team in. he's willing to try and correct him.

He's an emotional player. And there's nothing wrong with that. We have to give him the freedom to be who he is. And if we're not prepared to do that, we shouldn't have brought him in. Within that, though, within his personality, he has to conform to the group as well. And we're working on that. I'm really happy we have him. I'm willing to sit with him and discuss things as I'm sure Dean had to.

But I've done it with a lot of other really good players. And he's not unique. And again, we're happy to have them. Yep. A couple more for Todd, you know, Dowdy and Copatar. I mean, they just seem ageless, especially Copa tar to have the year that he had last year. What's it been like for you that has coached a lot of legends in this game to get to work with these two future Hall of Famers? It's been an honor, really, outstanding to go up against Cope and Drew all those years in San Jose, even in Edmonton, and then be able to come and coach him.

I think I appreciate them even more now because I get to see them do it day after day after day. And their ability to still drive our team and play the game at such a high level after so many miles on their on their frames, if you will, is quite remarkable. Both of them have a tendency to stay very healthy. And what I appreciate the most about both of them is their ability to play on the defensive side of the pocket. And I know fans don't want to hear that, that coaches check the shit out of the game, if you will. But their commitment to playing the right way is infectious, and it makes it easier for us to work with some of the younger players

coming into the league and get them to buy into it. They see champions, they see winners, and they see them doing it day after day. And it's way easier for us to use them as mentors, if you will. than it is maybe with some other players. And you've said that about guys like Byfield and Kali of, right? I mean, you came into this year and made it extremely clear, these are no longer rookies, these aren't young players,

it's time for them to take that next step. Exactly. And a lot of these young players, as they enter the league, they've been able to produce at a remarkable level, major junior, sometimes college. They're very high draft picks. And they immediately enter the league. And in their minds, they're thinking stats to stay.

I need to produce personal stats so I can stay and that's how my career is going to evolve. And that's a huge mistake in my mind. You have to produce good results throughout 60 minutes to stay. And that can be on both sides of the puck. And eventually you're going to find ways to score. In my opinion, Connor McDavid, Austin Matthews, and in some sense, Jack Eichel screwed it all up for the future drafts because everybody wanted to finish product. And those three were as close to the finished product as there was entering. the league.

Quitting by field wasn't that. I'm sure Marco Rossi isn't that, but he's a hell of a player. I've watched them in the pre-scouts now. It takes time for them and they have to learn to value other aspects of the game so that the offense can come out. Right. Last one on your team, then I did want to ask about McDavid and a couple other things. But your goaltending is the one area where, you know, us great critics always question

whether, all right, are they that team that can go and win a cup? But you know Cam Talbot. We saw Phoenix play really well last year, but you know Cam Talbot really well, have a long history with them dating back to your days in Edmonton. I'm sure that you are not one that would buy into the naysayers. Well, we, no, we're not buying into that. Because I think goaltending is done by committee,

and I'm not just talking about the two players that put the funny looking pads on. It's done by the 18 guys in front of them. Now, there are moments when goaltenders let, goals in that we're just not happy about. They are part of the team and they have to make the big save. But generally speaking, when a goal scored, there's probably six, sometimes eight players involved, a bad line change or whatever it might be.

It's not just on the goaltender. And we believe that we can have enough structure in our team to make a lot of stuff predictable to help the goaltenders out. And I've been able to see Talb perform at a very high level in the past and watched Copley do it as well last year. Ridditch and the minors has that opportunity if we ever need it. So we feel like we have three goaltenders that can provide us with wins when needed. Your career path, I mean, you, to coach the players that you have, I mean, I think probably the first one on anybody's mind would be Connor

McDavid. You coached him as a young, young, young player, and he was a stud back then. Now he's just the greatest player in the game. Can you talk about just his maturation from what you saw when he first came into Edmonton to what you're now seeing on a nightly basis. Yeah, and I'm going to start off the ice because for as good as Connor is on the ice, he's even better off the ice. He's an unreal human being. He takes the time to promote the game and he accepted all of that pressure. I'm really proud of being around him and seeing that part of the game as well as his evolution

as a player, but he is dynamic. When I came into the league, I kept hearing about Sidney Crosby working on his game and and trying to build it and overcome face-off deficiencies and working on his backhand, Connor finds something every year to improve on. He's the best player in the world right now, and he's striving to become better day after, day after day. Study situations, discusses moments in the game. And as a result, he's been able to capitalize on certain situations.

He was always going to be good, but he's made himself great. What is it like, by the way, coaching in L.A.? I mean, every time I turn on a game, I see Will Ferrell or Snoop or, you know, even for you, it's just got to be like just a blast to look and see the celebrities in the crowd and the, and the people in the stands. It is a lot of fun. It's, it's a unique city. It's, you know, there's all the benefits that go with being in, in Los Angeles, living in the

South Bay. You're getting the life benefits away from the rink. It's warm. If you like the sunshine, it's great. If you like the downhill ski, well, you're in the wrong spot. But we can escape in L.A. We can get away. And I tell people my Sundays, you know, Sundays off or flying back from Boston, late Saturday night after game, maybe it hasn't gone so well.

I can get up. I can take two lawn chairs. My wife and I can walk down, maybe something cold to drink. And we can sit on the beach and we can get away from it. And players are in the right to do that. I think it's a really good atmosphere to do that. And for the most part, they're left alone. Yet we have everything else that goes with L.A.

We have the nightlife. We have the people that come and support us and watch us. Snoop dogs walking into our room and he's doing the starting line. Again, every city has something unique about it. And every city has those type of people that support their team and they get involved. And we're lucky in L.A. But a lot of other cities have it as well. Who's the biggest celebrity that you met that you were just like, wow,

I cannot believe I'm getting it. to chat with this person. Well, this moment would be Mike Russo, but you don't live in L.A. There's been a lot of different ones. I was lucky enough to go to the Grammys last year with my wife and my son and his fiance and just being around that whole massive group or industry, if you will, of superstars was, you know, I was a little bit in awe. It's probably like some of these young kids coming to watch the Wilder, the King's practice.

They're in awe. Yeah. So it's, it's the mass. instead of just one. Yeah. Last question for you. I did the story last week on coaches and the coaches meetings and how the league basically surprised you guys are the highlight video at the coaches meetings of some of you all making

going crazy. I don't know if you wound up on the highlight tape. I was told by Pete DeBoer that Paul Maurice was the star of the show, which he absolutely said that Pete was full of shit. But, you know, I guess it was the, you know, even though it felt like it was tongue and cheek from the league and lighthearted that the overall message was kind of what you were just saying with kids is that like look kids emulate the great hockey players and we don't really want to have a bunch of coaches screaming at refs because all of a sudden that also may give you know young

coaches or fans license to just you know especially in a world we're having trouble getting referees and officials right now um you know do you do you know was the message sent and do you think that it'll be, you know, I was watching opening night and Paul Maurice was seemed to seem to kind of calm down behind the bench. Do you think that will chase? The message was sent and it was received and appropriately from both sides. It was something that I think is really important. As one of the 32 coaches in the league, when you think about some of these superstars play so much, yet they're not always in the media every day. We have to stand in front of the microphone. We have to stand behind the bench every day.

And we represent our team. We represent our league. We represent our product. And when we take it a little bit too far and misbehave, we're not sending a real good message to the people that are watching us. Now, that's twofold. Sometimes coaches need to have emotion. It wakes their team up.

Yeah. And the good referees will understand that a little bit. They'll almost work with us. Yeah. And if we're emotionless behind the bench, our team is going to take those characteristics on. And we've got to stand up and defend the 20 players that are in front of us. of us when they need defense. So I don't think anybody's saying, hey, don't do that. It's just the fashion

that you do do it. Also, we're reviewed by people like Mike Russo and everybody else. We're evaluated on how well our team's prepared. And if we're standing behind the bench like a lump of coal all the time, we're going to hear about it. We have to be emotionally attached to the group into the team. So there's a, there's a fine balance. Um, but I think that we all get it. Uh, we all enjoy doing what we do. We choose to do it and we just have to be aware of how we, uh, we look and behave. Yep, totally makes sense. And I think everybody realizes the emotions, uh, that come with being in the heat of the moment. And, uh, and also the, the pressures that all coaches are under. I think that as you said, the good refs get it. So, uh, you know, Todd, really

looking forward to watching you guys play this year this year um you know i look at you guys and i think you have everything that it takes to be a true contender this year and uh looking forward to watching you get it done well thanks for having me appreciate it thanks that's top mcclund back to you ian and julian there we go it's a little segment we call mike chack mike russo that a great conversation with todd mcclellan i like the uh who's the biggest celebrity you've ever dealt with snoop will feral and todd mccl's like it's mike russo that was pretty good. 32 games tonight.

I mentioned this off the top. Alex Ovechkin, no goals this year. And I remember the first week of the season, it was the first time ever he had been held without a shot in consecutive games. He did get five shots on goal at the Bell Center on Saturday,

show a little bit of life. I mean, does this, for me, it doesn't affect, I hear people saying, oh my God, he's not going to break the Gretzky record. I mean, I'm not at that point. yet. But I am starting to wonder if if he's falling off a cliff and if maybe now we need to just, you know, reframe our expectations. And if he's a 25 goal guy, that's still effective. That's still good. But are you at the point where you think that, okay, the 40 goal days are done,

45 goal days are done? I'm not prepared to write them off yet. I still think Alexander Ovechkin, in terms of his goal scoring ability, one of the best we've seen. I don't know. He's shown in the past that when he goes on a drought, the goals just come back and they come in bunches. And all it takes is for him to get a goal against Toronto tonight as an example. And then maybe the next game doesn't get a goal with the game after he gets a goal. If he's still able to provide that, I don't know. I could still see him as a 35, 40 goal guy.

In terms of him breaking that record, I think at this point, I'm not going to count him out until it is absolutely necessary. to do so. I think it's way too soon. We have seen before that he has those moments where he's not going to be able to score a roll. He finds a way back.

I feel like just we have so many years of history to look back on. And I get that age and time will always be undefeated, but I'm really not ready to write off of Etchen on this on this course yet. Okay. Another matchup tonight that I think would have or should have had a ton of intrigue. And normally this wouldn't. I don't think. a lot of people normally would say, oh yeah, Columbus, Anaheim, it's go time, but it's intriguing

because you have the team that took Leo Carlson and passed on Adam Fantilli, that being Anaheim, they took Carlson, left Fantilly for Columbus. This could have or should have been their first matchup, but the Ducks confirming earlier on Tuesday, Julian, that once again using load management, I guess we'll call it, Leo Carlson's not going to play. And look, he's a teenager. And I thought Eric Stevens did a great job earlier in the season talking about this was the plan. This isn't like they didn't just come up with this now on the fly. The ducks have said, we're going to really ease Leo Carlson into the lineup, but not playing against Columbus. Like that, to me, that's the type of game I'd want to see him play. No, like, like Columbus,

this, this, would this not be a good game to put the kid in? I would think so too, but now I'm wondering, did the Ducks do this on purpose because they knew that after this game, we at least the people who would really want to care about those two teams, we would start doing a size up of the two players. And is this their way of protecting Leo Carlson from that? Because otherwise, he should be in the lineup. He should be playing. There's an opportunity for him to play with the Anaheimps and get his reps in.

And look, load management, it works. It doesn't work. I don't know what side of the debate I'm on anymore. but to take him out of a game like this, which otherwise should have been billed as this number two versus number three, a very head scratching decision from my vantage point here. But I wonder if it has more to do

with protecting it from expectations compared to just simple load management. Anyway, and I'm not saying this from a media fan standpoint of that would be a fun storyline, Carlson versus Fantilli. I'm just saying, if you don't play them against Columbus and it's not like you played last night

like again this is their plan with them and we'll see how this this plays out but it's it's certainly an interesting talking point I think if I'm an Anaheim fan I know that my team's not going to compete this year but what do I want to see? I want to see the kids play yeah do they even know if that like

if taking him out and putting him back in every now and again does that work like for when you have a player of that stature or drafted as highly as you do do they have something to go back on and say like, okay, we did it with these players and that seems to work? Like, that's the question I have. Yeah.

And that, I mean, that game is in Columbus. Like to me, I think the other night, he didn't play in a home game, which I'm like, you got to put that guy into every home game.

If you can. Ideally, see that kid. And not even just from a marketing standpoint, more from a, you know, the line matching, maybe you can manipulate it a little bit more,

give him some. Anyway, I'm curious. what what, what, what, what people think of Mike, um, uh, not Mike Carlson. Who's, I don't even know who Mike Carlson. Leo Carlson. Leo Carlson. I don't know if I had Mike on the brain.

Maybe because Columbus is there and it's, uh, I had Babcock on the brain. Maybe I guess. Would Anaheim have done this? The last thing I'll say about this, would Anaheim have done this if they took Adam Van Tilly second overall like everyone thought we were, everyone thought was going to happen. I don't know. But you think this is, is this a game fantilly has circled? If you're Adam Fantilly, are you going to go full, like, remember Randy

Moss in the NFL. It's like he took the notes. He's like everybody who passed on me, especially Dallas, I'm going to stick it to you. I don't know. I mean, I don't know him as intimately as maybe our friend Aaron Portsline would. I don't know if he strikes me as that guy who would do that. It'd be fun if he was because up until the opportunity came to draft him second overall, I just penciled in Adam Fantilli and I'm duck with that core of young players that they have. And then up and moments before, I remember, I think I was sitting next to Eric Stevens when this was all going down to it. I was just feeling pretty surprised at the fact that they opted for Leo Carlson, not that he's not going to be a stud of a player, but it just seemed like Adam Fantilli

made so much sense at number two, which again, brings me back to my initial quote unquote conspiracy theory that maybe Anaheim doesn't want to put Leo Carlson in a game against the Columbus Blue Jackets because they don't want people looking at both players and maybe. both players sizing them up and maybe they're just trying to protect Leo that way. I don't, I don't know. Maybe he'll go too far, but that's just,

that's bubble rapid. And I don't think you should be doing that with that player. The athletic hockey show at gmail.com is a way to get us. Elise in Philadelphia wrote to us yesterday on the Monday show, Julian lamenting the fact that Elise went to NHL, the NHL app, couldn't find the easy tab to listen to the games, the radio feeds of all the teams.

but Jennifer was nice enough to tweet at you and I earlier today, Julian, Jennifer. Hopefully with a solution for release, Jennifer says to the listener who wrote into your show, I get mad every year thinking that the NHL app remove the audio feed, but they just tinker with it unnecessarily. It's a super accessible function still. You just have to find it in the scores tab. So you go to the NHL app and underscores,

scores like the score thing, you click on that and then once you get into all the scores, there's the headphone, you'll see the headphone icon, click on that and that should take you to the games. So we think, Jennifer, we think, has the solution

for Elise. Yeah. Yeah, I'm glad that feature is still there. I'm glad that feature is still there. I'm glad that feature still there and I'm glad we were able to provide that PSA. Okay, and we had a great debate with Marks Lazarus yesterday. day chatting with Laz about what constitutes a dynasty.

Laz had a pretty hardline stance on this. Chris in Vegas says, I like the idea of calling teams with multiple non-successive cups, an empire, but to me they've always been a quasi-dynasty. Yes, I want the Red Wings of the late 90s to be considered a dynasty, but how do you factor in the devils and the avalanche

during that same era? How do you factor Chicago and L.A. in the early 2010s? Each have a compelling claim that they would be a dynasty at best, it's a kind of dynasty. That's a great point. When the Red Wings were dominant in the late 90s, Colorado won cups kind of bookmarking them, right, in 96 and 01,

and the devil's won in 95 and in 2000, 2003. So, I mean, can you have multiple, we'll bring Las back in and ask, can you have multiple dynasties all handing the baton of power to each other. I mean, I don't know if I would want to call it that. I certainly wouldn't call, if I was on any of those teams, I certainly wouldn't call my team a quasi-d dynasty.

That's, you want to be a dynasty. It's either you're that or you're not. Yeah. Little D, not capital D dynasty, little D. Yeah. Okay. Well, listen, we hope everybody enjoys the 32 teams all in action, 16 games, the Frozen Frenzy should be a lot of fun.

I'm stepping out the Wednesday pot. I'm traveling. Down goes Brown. Sean McAdoo. Going to bounce back in there tomorrow, though, with you, Julian. And an old friend, CART, Rick Carpinello, author of the New York Rangers book, The Franchise, a curated history of the blue shirts.

It is out. And you guys are going to have some fun chatting with carp about the history of New York Rangers. That's going to be fun to do, man. Looking forward to it. Yeah. Looking forward to that. Looking forward to all the games tonight.

I want to thank everybody for listening. To the Tuesday edition of the Athletic Hockey Show, Julian and I had an absolute blast hanging out with you for the last hour or show. So follow us on your favorite podcast platform. Leave us a rating and review. Certainly would appreciate that. You could follow us on YouTube at YouTube.com slash at the athletic hockey show. Enjoy the frozen frenzy.

Sean and Julian will be back to the on Wednesday. Peace.