The Athletic Hockey Show - NHL trade deadline 2023 recap (recorded LIVE!)

Episode Date: March 3, 2023

Cohosts Ian Mendes and Hailey Salvian are joined by The Athletic NHL’s Fluto Shinzawa, Mark Lazerus, Sean Gentille, and James Mirtle, to recap all the deals from this year's NHL trade deadline and discuss how they'll impact the stretch drive into the playoffs.Please note: this episode was recorded live on Friday, March 3, 2023.Watch a replay of the show on YouTube and subscribe while you’re there: http://youtube.com/@theathletichockeyshowGet a 1-year subscription to The Athletic for $2 a month when you visit http://theathletic.com/hockeyshowTry Peloton risk-free with a 30-Day Home Trial, New Members only. Not available in remote locations. See additional terms at http://onepeloton.ca/home-trial Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the Athletic Hockey Show. Here we go. We're up and running and welcome to a live trade deadline day edition of the Athletic Hockey Show, Dean Mendez-Haley Salvia. Hey, we're reunited again. And they said it was never out. Yeah. They said it with live. Coming at you live, the athletic hockey show on YouTube.

I want to encourage all of our viewers and listeners to subscribe at YouTube.com slash at the on a hockey show. We're on Twitter. We're coming out you live. It is just after 2.30 Eastern time. I am inside the Canadian Tire Center, home of the Ottawa Senators. Haley Salvin is in a hotel room in parts unknown. Yeah.

An undisclosed U.S. location. Yeah. Oh, U.S. location. And now you may have to leave at some point in the early part of this because you may have room service. You've timed this out impeccably. I ordered a coffee a half an hour ago from downstairs because, Because this is one of those nice hotels where you can get like the full craft of coffee sent upstairs.

Not just a cup of coffee. Like I could have gone down to a Starbucks and did that, but I could get like a jug with an IV drip actually. Yeah. And it's taking a little bit of time to. Yeah. How's that working out for you? Not so well right now. I'm still exhausted.

Yeah. Exactly. So if Haley dips out for a second because there's a knock of the door off to pick up the caraph of coffee. Anybody watching us right now, like I said, we're live. And if you've got any questions for us, you can drop them into the chat there. We'll absolutely handle some of your questions as we go.

Just to set up the show for the viewers and the listeners. Coming up in about just under 10 minutes from now, Fluto Shenzawa covers the Boston Bruins is going to be with us. I got to tell you, Haley, if you had to pick your team right now, a lot of people think that that's a definitive team to beat, right? The Boston Bruins. Everything that they've done

around the deadline. So Fluto, I 240. And then we're going to go to the opposite side of the spectrum. Then there's the Chicago Blackhawks. They're not winning the Stanley Cup. In fact, they might be in the running for Connor Baudard, but Mark Lazarus does a great job covering Chicago, also a national writer for the athletic. Laz at 250. Sean Gentilly. The snark factor will be up to considerably when Sean Gentile joins the show just after 3 o'clock.

Sean has been doing a ton of work along with the other Sean McAdoo. You were part of this too, were you not today? The live blog, yeah. the live blog. So, Sean Gentile at 3 o'clock, James Myrtle, senior managing editor with us at the Athletic. Also, of course, does a great job covering the Toronto Maple Leafs. James Myrtle comes by at about 315 to kind of put a bow on this.

But this has been a real quiet day. And part of that, Haley, I know people are like, oh, this day is really boring and it's dull. But it's worth the tradeoff, isn't it, for what the frenetic pace and the excitement and all the drama and all the trades we've seen in the last 10 days, right? This is worth it. I think so. I mean, it makes the actual day itself really boring, like you said, Ian. Like,

you know, we think of deadline day and all the moves start coming through and you got eight hours of TV to fill on, you know, whatever network it is that has a show on from 8 a.m. until 4 or 5 o'clock at night. So it makes that a little bit less entertaining. But like we can't say that there hasn't been any action because that is just completely not true. When I was looking at cat friendly earlier today, they had a really great statistic because everyone keeps saying like, it feels like it's been really busy leading into the deadline. Yeah, that is quantifiable. It is busier than it has ever been in the last decade in the two weeks leading into the trade deadline. So the previous high for deals in the two weeks leading up to the deadline over the last decade is 20.

There has been 43. And there were 43 trades in the two weeks leading up to deadline day, according to cat friendly. Yeah. And it's not just quantity. It's quality, right? We're talking the Ryan O'Reilly's and the Bo Horvats and the Patrick Cain's and the Jacob Chikrin's. And these are elite kind of game-changing players that have all kind of shifted around.

So like I said, we'll take your comments. Coming in live here, if you're following along here, drop them in. Corey has written in, look at this, Corey. We really appreciate this. Corey says, two of my favorite people at the athletic. Thanks, Corey.

We assume Corey's talking about us, but maybe he just, Corey just threw that in there, didn't know who is, it's a very generic compliment. However, this is Julia helps us out a little bit here. Julia says, Ad Sean Gentilly and Shana.

This would be my, the Mount Rushmore of my favorite athletic writers. Okay. So there you go. We'll take it. How about Shana with some, what are we calling these Shay bombs?

Sheaemakers maybe? Sheemakers. I don't like that. It's like a haymaker. I don't like that. No? She's just breaking some trades. So this one's puzzling.

Dryden Hunt looks to be on the move again this time to Calgary. Of all the things that I thought maybe the flames would do today, it wasn't that. Yeah. Why? You know, Calgary, there's a handful of teams that are, that are in a bit of an odd spot. Calgary is one of them.

Lars has a question for us actually here. Hayley. Lars says, greetings from Sweden. Awesome job today. Any new talk about the Red Wings moves. Sunquist to the wild was interesting. Is there any truth to JVR to the Red Wing?

So I just saw this within the last couple of minutes. And obviously, Lars, you appreciate. We're kind of trying to follow along as we host this show, that Seattle and Detroit, were said to be upping the ante to try to get James Van Remstike, JVR here. And that to be is interesting because Detroit, they came into Ottawa, they came into this building, what, five days ago, Haley, two teams that were on kind of parallel tracks.

And Ottawa beats them 6-2-6-1. And all of a sudden Detroit starts selling goodbye Bertuzi. And, you know, they make a series of trades. And Ottawa is a buyer. but would you be confused if JVR went to the Red Wings? Okay, so actually this Justin from Elliott Freeman hearing JVR to Detroit's. So great timing. So what do you think of that?

I was surprised. Yeah. I should have said my big answer about why he's a perfect fit. Yeah, exactly. Before I read the news, so I sounded really smart, but I'm trying to be really open and honest with everybody. Yeah, looks like JVR is going to Detroit. I think that makes sense. I think obviously they move out Bertuzi, they move out Philip Roanick, and Jacob Vrana,

going to move a body in. I wonder if there's going to be salary retention involved. I wonder what they're going to be sending back. If it's another roster piece that's going the other way to Philadelphia, I think it's difficult to fully evaluate the deal without knowing what happens. but I do find it really interesting that it's the Red Wings making that move. Mostly because we haven't seen the Seattle Cracken do anything yet. And this is a team that is in playoff position.

They're a third in the Pacific right now. And they haven't been buying. And the West is up for grabs. The Cracken have been good. It's odd to me that Seattle's been really quiet. But I'll need a second. and I want to see what this return is for Detroit because I'm very curious. They've been selling and now they're buying.

The biggest name that's been left on the board. Why? What's going on? Well, I think the message probably from Steve Eiserman is we legitimately have a chance at the playoffs. Like don't count us out because we lost a couple of games in a row here. And, you know, those were definitive losses. Why would you start selling people? I mean, I think they got a great return for Philip, Ronic, right?

Those were strategic selling you. I don't think you can say no to that deal. Yeah. They got a good deal on Bertuzi. But maybe JVR is a little, kind of, I guess, a little sweetener to the Dylan Larkins of the world that are, hey, guys, you know what? As we sit here today, Detroit, I'm just looking at double checking here. They're at 65 points. And they got some games in hand.

Like the Islanders are holding down the final playoff spot. if Detroit wins their games in hand, they're ahead of the Islanders. Now, again, a lot of things have to happen. But from a points percentage standpoint, Detroit's right there with the Islanders, with the Sabres, with Ottawa. So maybe this is a little bit of a message from Steve Eisenman

that, hey, we're not putting up the white flag as much as you think. We're a buyer and a seller, if that makes sense. It just doesn't make a whole, it doesn't make sense to me. Because, yes, those moves were strategic in the sense that, like, you take a look and you see what Tanner-Jenau is bringing.

back to Tampa Bay. And you understand that, hey, let's get in on this sell high market. But when they were actually firmly in playoff position, like they were in the second wildcard spot. They're in the hunt. They're in the playoffs. All the reporting out there was everyone's saying pat. We're not moving Bertuzi.

He's off the board. And then they lose those games to Ottawa. They drop back. And now everyone's for sale. So part of me wonders about this JVR move. Like, is there going to be a deal in the? drawer. Like maybe this isn't a rental for James Van Ramesdike. It just doesn't make a whole lot of sense for me that they are selling off all these assets just to send some back to Philly to

bring in a rental player when the East is just a powerhouse. Yeah. Well, I'll be a lot. My coffee's here. Oh, yeah, this is perfect. You dip out for your coffee and I'll bring in Flutro Shinsawa. You're talking about Eastern powerhouses. Hey, Detroit, of course, sending Tyler Bertuzi to Boston earlier this week. Flutter Shinsawa does a great job covering the Boston Bruins who have lost eight, count them eight times in regulation so far this season. So legitimate Stanley Cup contender, Fluto. First of all, thanks for joining this live edition of the Athletic Hockey Show.

Hope your deadline day has been going well for you. Quiet, so pretty good. Yeah. Bruins have made all their moves. Exactly. The Bruins have made a bunch of moves, the Orlov move. They've done a lot of things that I think have solidified their position

into where they are. Now, when they made the trade for Bertuzi, there's a lot of people that were like ready to call the shenanigans on Taylor Hall. And this feels like capser convention. And is it convenient timing that Felino and Hall are banged up? Could you give our viewers and listeners a little bit of an update just from an injury standpoint on Taylor Hall and how that factored into Don Sweeney at the deadline? Yes, Ian.

The Bertuzi deal was not really on the front burner for the Bruins. They were monitoring the marketplace. But six days ago in Vancouver, Taylor Hall goes off the ice. Three days later in Calgary, Nick Felino gets checked into the boards by Nikita Zedorov. He limps off. So there's two left wings out. And Don Sweeney said yesterday that they might not be back in time for the end of the regular season. So that's, okay, we don't know the severity of either injury at this point.

And maybe the boots don't know either. But they know enough to put Taylor Hall on long term. 10 games, 24 days. So two left wings. And then Brad Marshan, he gets a skate. cut in Edmonton right above the ankle. And then he hurts his knee last night and leaves the game in the second period. So all this goes to show that it's just so dangerous, right, the NHL?

And that things can turn so quickly in terms of injuries. So they can put Taylor Hall on long term, which frees up $6 million in cap space, which allows them to get Tyler Pertuzzi from Detroit. Tyler practiced today for the first time. He's probably going to play tomorrow against the Rangers on the Bruins' third line with Charlie Coyle and Trent Frederick. So that's a nice, complimentary wing that can play power play, can play penalty kill.

And who knows if Taylor Hall and Nicklinara are out for the rest of the regular season, maybe into the playoffs, then what do we always say that depth matters? And this is another depth piece for the Bruins, just like they added Orlov and Halfway before. Yeah. And speaking of Orlov, coming in, what is it, eight points in four games. I love the nickname Bobby Orlov. Can you give us a sense of how well is Dimitri Orlov

just fit in there to Boston. It just feels like a perfect match right now. Sensation. He's been absolutely terrific through four games, playing left side, playing right side, power play. The second power play, he has a real nice one-timer on the power play. He scored one-five goal in Calgary right off of the face-off. So he's, okay, he's got some offense there, but he's got some bite. He plays with some edge. he's a good skater very smart and some real nice vision made a really really high in play in Edmonton against Connor McDade of all people

McDavid's coming in off the rush Orloff stands him up at the blue line gets the puck sends it right up to Felino Felino and Coil go the other way and they score on non-man rush so he gives them a whole lot of options look somebody is going to get hurt either at the end of the regular season or in the playoffs when it comes to defense and that's why they brought them in

that they have eight legitimate NHL defensemen now. And they've always had an injury history in the playoffs, like a lot of these teams have done in the playoffs on defense. So he's insurance, but right now he's been second best defenseman after Linholm after four games. Outstanding pickup. And hi, Fluto.

I'm here now. I don't know if Ian tuned you in, but I was waiting for a coffee. Priorities, Haley. Yeah, sorry about that. But I heard everything you guys were talking. about. I know that Orlov has been a great fit. And, you know, Tyler Bertuzi almost became a necessity for them due to injury. It sounds like the Bruins are still waiting for an update

on Nick Felino. I guess the question is, is, are the Bruins done? Like, if they hear something today where maybe both guys are going to be on LTIR and that will open up even more caps. space. Could you see the Bruins doing anything else? Or do you think Don Sweeney's done for the day? He said yesterday, Haley, Don Swinney said that he's probably done. They have enough. And that, yes, depending on what kind of clarity they receive on Folino and Hall, Polino is still on regular IR. So yes, I guess there is that possibility. He's making 3.8 AAV. So you could shift that over the long term and possibly make another deal. But Don said pretty much yesterday that he's done. So I think maybe if there's a depth acquisition out there that makes

sense for the Bruins, perhaps they would be listening here in the last few minutes, but I think all business, including David Posternach, has been, all family business has been Southern for the Bruins. You know what? I think it's great that you bring up Posternuck because of all the things that Don Sweeney did at the deadline, let's be honest, locking up arguably the best right winger in the game, certainly in the conversation of the best right ring in the game. A long-term deal was the the best move that I think he made. Can you walk us through how that all kind of came together? And why now and why not earlier, you know, earlier in the season?

Like, did the Pasternach camp just wait and kind of get to this point, get a little bit more leverage? Absolutely. And this was, this was stress out a lot of players, right? To be going into your contract year and not have the deal done. I'm sure there'd be a lot of players come July 1st of that year. Where's my contract?

Where's my pen? Can I sign right now? David is not like that. If you know him at all, he's very confident in himself. He doesn't take things too seriously. He's kind of a free spirit. And I think that helped him this year in terms of his preparation for this fall. And then once he got started, it's just the momentum kept on going for him.

And he, yes, he said when he went home at night, he'd be thinking about his deal. But overall, he wasn't stressed about the situation. He knows how good of a player he is, how unique of a goal score he is. and how critical he is to the franchise, because, let's face it, it could be as soon as next year that Patrice Bergeron and David Cracher, are gone. Brad Marchand is soon to go after that. He's 34 years old. So David, Charlie McAvoy, they are the two foundational pillars of this team.

So Bruins had no choice but to sign and to meet David's price. David was always in control of the negotiations. And Kenney only said yesterday, the Bruins wish they could have gotten this done a lot sooner. It saved them a lot of stress in terms of. of knowing what that number would be for David and then having a better idea of what their budget will be like for not just next year but for the next eight years.

But yeah, this was always going to get done. This is going to be a big number. It could have been an even bigger number for David, considering how well he's played and how there is probably slow growth left in his game. I've got one more for you, Fluto. And before I do ask that question, before you came on, Ian and I were discussing a report from Elliott Friedman

about JVR to Detroit. It sounds like there's some conflicting reports. Sounds like there's no trade in place at this exact moment in time for James Van Reimsdyke. It looks like the Red Winker in the process of moving another player to make that happen. So lots of, I think there's maybe a couple of technicalities. The trade is not done yet. They're not waiting a trade call. So just wanted to get that out there for everyone listening live as we were talking about the JVR.

Detroit conversation before Fluto came on. But back to the Bruins and you, Fluto. I think for myself, I've been looking at this Bruins team as the team to beat in the postseason. I think the way I've described them a few times now is they're giving me extreme, you know, 2016-17, I believe that's the right year, Golden State Warriors vibes, just like wire-to-wire dominance, you know, brushing, you know, with like historical numbers. they're going to win the championship, just call it now.

But I guess my question for you, Fluto, is what is the biggest roadblock for this team, whether it's a team like Carolina or Tampa, Toronto, New Jersey, or their health and maybe the age of some of these players, like, is there a concern that some of these guys that you were just talking about as they're going to be aging next season? Is that a concern heading into the postseason for Boston? Or do you think they're just going to be full-steen? ahead until they win a Stanley Cup here.

No, these are all terrific points Haley in terms of A, the health, right? If three guys go down, then it's a whole different story. And this is a good reminder. Hall and Felino, this was within three days, four days, that those guys go down with long-term injuries. And then Brad gets banged up twice. So it just shows how quickly things can turn. And yes, this has been discussed in terms of managing their older players,

that this is going to be a grind toward the end. And Bruins don't care about results at this point. They're so far ahead of Toronto second place in the division that points don't matter. So yes, they will be resting, especially on back-to-backs with travel, Patrice Burj, Don't David Crach. You may have Brad Marchand. So they'll get their breeders. That's probably the biggest concern in terms of just health, overall injuries,

well-being in terms of some of these older players. Let's face it, they just don't bounce back like they used to before. But in terms of opponents, I think there's just one team that's given this team, the Bruins hiccups, and that's been Carolina. Not just this year, but there's a team that beat them last year in the playoffs. So for whatever reason, speed, physicality, tenaciousness, they've been all over the Bruins dating back to last year too. So maybe that's the team that scares them, but overall,

that's just one team that I've seen that can legitimately say, okay, maybe this keeps the Bruins up in night because they've been, They've been such a machine, just so deep. Like what team has two goalies like Hallmark and Swamen? What team has two number one defensemen like Ringholm and McAvoy? What team has Bergeron and Creachy making 3.5 million total on their cap it? It's just amazing what this team has done, how the GM has rebuilt this team on the fly,

how first year coach and Jim Montgomery has come in and expressed even more than what Bruce Cassidy has done. So I don't see any team being able to contend with the Bruins. Obviously, the East is going to be a grind for anybody. But, yeah, Bruins are the team to be. Well, listen, Fluto, it's been great having you on this live edition of the Athletic Hockey Show, trade deadline special. I know today was quiet for you, but last few days certainly haven't. We've loved your coverage, and we look forward to all your coverage down the stretch of the Bruins as they try and chase down maybe 120, 125 points, something like that.

Thanks for this. And, yeah, we'll talk to you again real soon. Okay, guys. See you. Thanks, Ludo. There goes Fluto Shenzawa. Yeah, the Boston Bruins. Golden State vibes may be, Haley, but they lost, right?

The year that they won 73 regular season games. That's why I said 2016-17. So I'm talking about the year where they didn't, they weren't historic, they just won the championship. So it was the year after they had the seven-loss season or whatever it was. And then they went and won a championship the next year. So they weren't quite record-breaking, but they still dominated. wired to wire. It's interesting that

Fluto brought up Carolina as the team that could kind of flirt with them. They give the Bruins a lot of trouble. I've been waiting for the Carolina Hurricanes to maybe do something a little bit more at this deadline and we're seven minutes away from the deadline. I'm still waiting. Oh and by the way

JVR to Detroit, not happening. Wow. We just took people on a needless needless roller coaster. It's a good thing I said it didn't make any sense. maybe. Well, yeah. I mean.

He was watching. And he was like, you're right. He's not a restrictive free agent. He's like, anyways, I think Glad is great point. Yeah. Well,

hey, listen, there's a lot of people who thought the Boston Bruins in the off season should have underdone a rebuild, right? Like they were at the end. It felt like a lot of people thought they were going to make the playoffs. Go back. And they changed the coach.

Bergeron was a question mark to come back. Everybody thought that they, Boston, Pittsburgh, Washington. Go back. I can read it. Everyone thought that they were at the end of their competitive cycles.

They obviously didn't, and that was the wise move. Chicago, though, they did. They decided it's time to blow it up. They said goodbye to Alex to Brinkat in the off season. And then obviously goodbye to Patrick Kane. And let's bring in Mark Lazarus. Does a great job covering Chicago for us. And live from the playroom.

Live from the playroom. Sorry, there's nothing happening. I was listening to you guys with Fluto. And the last two teams that were as good as the Bruins are, right, were the, what, the Lightning that won like 60 games and lost in the first round. And the 2013 Blackhawks, who started out 210 and 3. They won the Cup, but they almost lost in the second round. They were down 3-1 to a mediocre Detroit team had to win an overtime of game seven.

This is the Stanley Cup playoffs. Like, the Bruins have, like, a 20% chance at best of winning the Stanley Cup because hockey's just so stupid like that. So let's all pump the brakes a little bit on the Bruins. This has been a humbling week for me and my Bruins are going to go, wire to wire take them. I mean, they're awesome. They should. And getting hurt. I was like, in a just world, the Bruins would go wire to wire. They're clearly the best team. And Carolina is awesome and there's always like it's not even close. But that's just not how this

sport works. No. We don't get fun things. What's it been like Las dealing with, you know, obviously this wasn't the biggest deal of the deadline in terms of the return, which is kind of wild to see Patrick Cain not bring in a hall. I understand that he's been heard. I understand that he hasn't had the stat line this season, but I feel like there wasn't a player with a better resume available at the deadline this season. What's the whole Patrick Cain saga been like for you, Las, and then watching him obviously debut on Broadway last night against Ascent. Well, it's been excruciating because we've been talking about it for like a year and a half now. So in some respects, I'm just glad it's over with.

But yeah, I mean, I mean, it's kind of weird how the Blackhawks traded the greatest player in team history. And I do believe he's the greatest player in team history. And they got, you know, a second rounder, a conditional second rounder and a fourth rounder for him. And that's actually pretty good, considering that they had no leverage whatsoever that Kane only wanted to go to New York and that Chris Drury knew he only wanted to go to New York. I mean, Kyle Davidson did a decent job of getting what he got. But what he got was awful. I mean, Patrick Kane was supposed to be the piece that really kickstarted this whole rebuild, right? He's going to bring it a first round pick, a high-end prospect.

Jonathan Taze was going to get you a second rounder at least something like that because who wouldn't want Jonathan Taves is their third-line center. And now Taves is off the table because, you know, he's dealing with long COVID. We don't know when he's going to play again, if he's going to play again. And Kane got to a middling return. I mean, we've seen like, what, eight, nine, ten first round picks handed out this year for mediocre defensemen. And Patrick freaking Kane can't get you more than a second round. I mean, that's the power of the no movement clause. And, you know, Kyle Davidson's done a good job.

He's got a first rounder and four second rounders, I think, so far this deadline. But it's hard to look at this as anything but a failure because you traded Patrick Kane and you got very little for it. But it's kind of like Giroux last year. He was, Claude Drew was like, I'm only going here, what, Florida, Colorado, maybe. That was it. And it's tough. But overall, did Kyle Davidson do what he wanted to do with this roster last? because obviously Max Domi went as well,

but they're stripping it down. They've made no bones about it. We all knew that it was going to happen. Did he kind of shed everything that you thought he would shed? I know we're almost at 3 o'clock, so maybe there's something else to come, but how would you grade Davidson at the deadline in clearly in a seller's mode? And I add one thing too, sorry?

Yes. Code Jaroo at least got the flyers a first round pick. Yeah. Yeah. No, I mean, if Kyle Davidson's goal was to make the worst team, in the history of the NHL for these last 21 games, and it kind of was his goal, he succeeded. I mean, in the last, what, 10 months,

he's traded Alex De Brinket, Kirby Doc, he let Dylan Stromwalk, he let Dominic Kubalik walk, he traded Patrick Kane, he traded Jake McCabe, he traded Sam Lafferty, he traded Jack, I mean, everybody on the roster. Like, it's Connor Murphy and Seth Jones looking around the room like, dude, what happened where everybody go?

I mean, this is going to be an absolutely, and even their best prospects are going to spend the next month in Rockford because getting them playoff experience in the AHL is more important than winning in the NHL. Obviously, they want to lose. They're trying to get Connor Bidard. They're trying to be as bad as humanly possible. And they still have to, quote unquote, catch up to the Blue Jackets, right? They're not even the worst team in the league right now by points or points percentage. So they got some room to go because they won too many games this year with this lineup. But there's a quarter of the season left. And oh, my God, the roster they had at practice today,

It's hard to imagine any team losing to this team, frankly. And it's hockey, again, it's a dumb sport. Things will happen. There's Peter Morazic or Alex Daylock or competent goalies who will steal a game here or there. But with 21 games left, it wouldn't shock me to see the Hawks win two or three of them. I guess last one from me, Las, is why is Chicago the ideal destination for Connor Bedard? Because it seems like we're heading in that direction. So let's just get the good vibes going in that.

Get the tinfoil hat on that they're going to chill the ping pong balls and all that, Patrick Ewing style. I mean, obviously the league would love for him to be in Chicago. Chicago, you know, for 12 years there, whatever it was, was a huge moneymaker, the biggest moneymaker in the States for the league. The league is better off when Chicago is good. When Chicago is bad, it's bad for the league. So obviously, Bidar coming to Chicago and re-energizing the hockey city and selling,

I mean, they've done a good job selling tickets this year and selling jerseys and stuff, but, you know, people were still buying Kane and Dave's jerseys. Nobody's buying a Seth Jones jersey. Nobody's buying an Andreas Fannasio jersey. So if they get Baderd, that's great. I mean, you can make an argument that Columbus, it would be great to have Baderd with Gidreau and build that up as a market. It would be great to have them in Southern California in Anaheim. It'd be great to have him in Arizona with the new arena coming in a few years. But I think if the league had its druthers, Chicago is clearly the number one choice where they would want to place Connor Bader because when Chicago,

Chicago was, I mean, how many, how many freaking NBC sports games did Chicago have over those years where they were on top? Every single Wednesday night, they were Wednesday night rivalry against some random Easter conference team that they couldn't care about because they just wanted Chicago on TV. The league likes Chicago to be good. The league wants Chicago to be good. So if you got your tinfoil hat on, that's a good one. There we go. All right, Laz, we'll leave it there. Appreciate you dropping by this live show.

Thanks for this man. And I'm sure we'll get you again real soon. All right, good luck making this interesting for another hour. There we go. Only a few more minutes. Yes. Well, I can tell you, we've got some minor deals that have come through here. All of them my questions are why.

Ottawa has just acquired Patrick Brown from the Flyers for a sixth round pick. He's a centerman. There's a couple of other little deals here that are starting to, he's a guy. Troy Stetcher to Calgary from Arizona appears to be a done deal. So look, these are some minor deals. And we'll try to get to the bottom of the team. Choice Genscher is an NHL defender. That's a statement.

That's an accurate and a valid statement. Anyway, I'll tell you what, Sean Gentile is standing by on the other side. We're going to take a little break. We've got a bunch of comments we're going to get to from our viewers and listeners too. So we'd love it if you hopped in, fire away. Any questions you have for myself, Haley, Sean Gentile, James Murdo, coming up at about a quarter past the hour.

So just fire them in there. We'll take a break. We'll be back on the other side with Sean Jenner. All right. So we're officially now passing. 3 o'clock Eastern time. Now, we do want to caution our viewers and listeners that at times, these deals can trickle it. So maybe in 20 minutes, 40 minutes, there might be a few more things happening. But is there an update here on the JVR saga? He was, looked like he was going

on the move and he wasn't. Is there any clarity on that here, Bailey? So it looks like he's just not getting dealt by the deadline. Whatever was possible did not end up getting finalized or consummated with the Detroit Red Wings. I hate when people use that terminology. I just read it from Elliot Friedman. There has to be a better way to say that. Engineer, engineer the trade. Yeah.

Trade wasn't engineer. Whatever. Anyways, JVR not being moved at the deadline, which is really great stuff from the flyers. Yeah. Well, I'll tell you what. I promised I said the snark factor would have to rise significantly with our next

guest. So let's bring him in. Sean Gentile does a lot of, boy, he's like the jack of all trades. Anytime there's a column to be written, kind of looking at an issue in the league, or it's time to take a sharp knife to the Pittsburgh Penguins, he's our guy. Actually, there's no shortage of people at the Athletic

taking a sharp knife to the pitiful. I'm part of a four-man Ron Hextall assassin squad at this point. It's unbelievable. All I tweeted earlier was the penguins confuse me in that. that flew up. People were like,

me too. It's the Ron Hectorke stall pylon, baby. You know, he did, made a couple minor moves today that would have looked a little bit better had it not been for the Grandland catastrophe a couple days ago. Yeah.

Still digging out from that here. I mean, let's start there because we did get a question from Corey, I don't know, about 10 minutes ago, 50 minutes ago. Corey had asked us, has anybody had a worst deadline so far to the Pittsburgh penguin?

So now that we've gotten to 3 o'clock, what's the answer? Is anybody had a worse deadline than Ron Hextall and the Pittsburgh Pittsburgh Penguins? No. They're at the bottom of the list. The ironic part I think about the stuff that they did today, which is adding Nick Benino and moving out Brock McGinn's contract for which they took Demetri Kulikov, who's, you know, spare part at this point. Those are reasonable, functional moves where they cleared cap space, right? Brock McGinn, signed by Ron Hextall, by the way, first free agency signing when he took over the job.

He was going to make $2.75 million a year for the next two years. Huge, huge issue, huge wrench in the works. Part of the part of the cap problems that they've had over the last couple weeks. So he's out, he's off the books. That's a good move. Nick Benino, beloved teammate. Mike Sullivan loves him, loves him more than he's at the top of Mike Sullivan's pet list for sure. So all these, these are all positive things.

right but it's all just nuked by the fact that um their big ad their big five million dollar ad was it you know one of the worst defensive players in the league and a guy who doesn't really fix any any issues and also makes that much money for the next two years so yeah tech sales at the bottom of the list number 32 out of 32 it seems like they did so well to move all that money off the books just to do all of that with it like they did the hardest part like somebody took us barry capp an it how many times did we talk about on our show like the penguins don't have assets that other teams want. And somehow they found a way to move money out.

They found a way to open up space to just do this. This frenzied couple days, right, where they wave cap and then everybody rolled their eyes at that because it was like, who would, who would want them? And now that was mainly people who watched them here over the last couple years. You can't imagine, you know, any other team taking a flyer on them. So it goes, blues do. They bail out, heckstall. In that regard, so, you know, good for him.

but then after that it turns into, you know, waving McGinn and waving Mark Friedman and trading Teddy Blugher out of nowhere a couple days ago to Vegas, which is when it seemed like they were in on Jacob Checker, and I think that's probably a fair set of dots to connect, that they wanted to have at least the available space, and result there, again, is, you know, subtracting another piece from their bottom six.

They lost three out of their six every day, bottom six forward. in a matter of 24 hours, that is part of this crazy, you know, cap clearing spree that they went on. And the end result is a team that I don't think is, is meaningfully better in any way at all. Okay. We're talking about which,

you know, some teams that have had poor deadlines or whatever. And it's funny because at one point, J.T. Miller's name was linked with Pittsburgh. And that was, everyone was like, wow, like, unbelievable if Pittsburgh and Vancouver could get together.

I think the Twitter would melt down. What do we think of Vancouver? Like how do we really truly view the Canucks right now, Sean? Like midway through talking about Hexel and the Penguins and kind of putting them at the bottom of the list, I thought maybe that was my, like, whatever the reverse of a hometown bias is, I feel like that was maybe in play there because what the Canucks have done. I mean, they've, you know, they're, have they lost the plot? Was there a plot for them to lose?

I think adding a player like Heronuk, who's a good player. He's a second pair of defenseman. He's in the midst of one of his best seasons, you know, at least when he wasn't paired with Ben Chirot. He's been good. And on a lot of other teams, he'd be a meaningful ad. But, you know, this is just more proof, I think, that they can't do a rebuild. They won't do a rebuild. Where that comes from, whether it's the owner doesn't matter at this point. But yeah, their time frames out of whack, right? And I think the reason that people responded as badly as they did, especially in Vancouver, is that with the Bo Horvett trade, getting that first

round pick back. Some of the stuff that went on before the last week, it seemed like maybe they realized what their time frame was, right? That they realized that going out and getting 25, 26, 27-year-olds wasn't going to help. And then they go and completely do a 180 from that mindset and the Heronic deal. So yeah, if they're not, if they're not 31st in the league in terms of what they've done at the deadline, they're tied with Pittsburgh for sure. What do you think about one of the other deals that, I mean, one of the other, one of the few deals that went down today. It was Jordan Greenway to the Buffalo Sabres for a second and a third. Seems like a lot for a guy who, at least in the last year or so, hasn't brought a whole lot to the table offensively.

He is a good defensive player. He can take on tough minutes. I'm sure that's something that the Sabres are coveting if they're giving up that much. for Jordan Greenway, but what do you think about that deal today? He's an interesting player because there aren't a lot of guys who are 6-6 in the league at this point, right? So you can add that check next to his name. Okay, cool, physically really impressive. Had some production last year on that Marcus Flino, Joel Eric's neckline.

He was the third guy, though. It should be said, right? Those other two guys did it did a little bit more on the grief line, as Riesel called him. than Greenway did. But, man, he's of a type. We know what kind of guys the Sabres like. And we know that they can make it work. I'm not going to compare him to Tage Thompson, right?

Because Tage Thompson was, he's a little younger. He certainly showed a little bit more production, I think, than Greenway has offensively to this point in his NHL career. But it's also impossible not to see some shared DNA there. He's 6'6. he's a U.S. National Development Team alum. He's a Don Granado guy. I'm not saying that he's going to turn into, you know,

human highlight real rocket Richard potential winner, Tage Thompson. But, you know, I don't know. I get it. It's a major price to pay, but the guy is the physical traits that Buffalo looks for. So maybe I'm a little higher on that than other people. And look, we were wondering, too,

like is Buffalo going to do anything because they're on the cusp of that play? picture. As you look at that, and it's kind of a six team, arguably seven, but certainly six teams are in the mix there, Sean, for two wild card spots. You got Pittsburgh at 71, the Islanders at 70, Buffalo 66, Ottawa 66, Florida is 66, Detroit and Washington, or Washington 66, Detroit, 65, they're all there. If I had to ask you right now on trade deadline day, you have to pick two of them that are making the playoffs. Who do you got? I still like the penguins are sneak in and get stomped in the first round by whoever they played. Like that's that's where I've been at with them all season.

So I'll go there. And I'm just not ready to write. I don't know if I don't know if the Panthers are going to make it, but I'm not ready to write them off either. I think they've got they've still got pieces, but Brovsky has played well. There's a level of urgency with that team because of the fact that, you know,

they dumped their first round pick in the Bidar draft for, for Ben Chirot. So I'll go out. off the board. I'll say them. They don't like, it's not an islander situation where the islanders, you know, yes, they're, they're in that spot for now, but they have a ton of games and they, every team has games in hand on on them rather. And, uh, in Matt Barzell is, you know, hurt for the next however long. So I'll go, I'll go Pittsburgh and I'll go Florida. And I'll say both those teams get, get stomped by whoever they play in the first round. A little bit of news here,

guys. Sorry to, to, to change the subject. But it looks like the full Calgary, Arizona trade. is Troy Stetcher and Nick Ritchie for Connor Mackey and Brett Ritchie. That's super fun. And then the big one, obviously, I'm bearing the lead here. It looks like John Klingberg has been traded to the Minnesota Wild. Ducks got the deal in just under the wire. I guess that's why Minnesota is getting, like they opened up cap space with Greenway and now they can get John Klingberg in the books.

Do we like that fit for the Minnesota Wild? Is that what they really needed to do at the deadline? No. They still need a center. Oscar Sunquist is, you know, he's fine. He's a guy. He can contribute on a fourth line. But the Wild's problems for as fun as they've been to watch,

for as well as Billy Garrens, you know, maneuvered here, their minuses are still their minuses, right? They haven't added where they've needed to add. And that's, you know, down the middle. So we'll see what happens down the stretch. Can Marco Rossi work his way back in the lineup and whatever? Same question we've been asking about them for the last however long. But no, they just still don't have enough down the middle.

And until they fix that, you know, I can't take them all that seriously. Yeah. I mean, and they kind of soured on Matt Dumbah, it feels like, right? But if you're Anaheim, if you go back to the start of the season. We can talk about that guy getting traded for years. Yeah. Matt Dumpa is like, he's going to be the new Jake Chikrin, right? Or it's like, okay, we're tired.

Although he's on. I'm just, I'm glad that Dumba saga with. Minnesota is finally going to end. Like his, like they, it's been years. It has. They held on to him. He's a UFA after all this.

And, you know, good, because we can all move on and take him off the tradeboards, wherever he ends up because it's, it's been, it's been a long time coming. Do you guys think the Klingberg situation is going to be a cautionary tale for free agents moving for? I think a lot of us thought, you know, John Klingberg didn't get the long term.

Hey, I'm going to send a one-year deal. I'm going to take, you know, whatever, got $7 million, but I'm going to kind of better myself. I'm going to have a big year and then I'm going to get moved. And Anaheim was probably thinking, you know, maybe we can get a good asset for John Stinkberg at the deadline. Do you think that other teams will now look at this and players as free agents be like, I don't want to sign a one-year deal?

You would have Matt. I mean, I don't know if it's going to, it is a cautionary tale. I don't, it's tough to tell people not to bet on themselves though, right? Like if they have that mindset, if they're like, I'm going into year one, into this last year, signing a one-year dealer or whatever, if they're that focused on the, on the, on the, on the rise and grind mindset. I don't think you're going to talk them out of it. But man, for a team, I think that's a, that's a cautionary tale.

Not that the ducks had all that much wrapped up in it, but they clearly thought they were going to be able to sign him, gas him up, play him on a power play, give him a bunch of five on five time with Zegaris and whoever else, and then flip him at the deadline for something meaningful. And it just hasn't, it just hasn't worked out that way. You know what? We're actually going to, we're going to do a quick trade here. I know he's not here yet, but I,

I got to step out. So just again, this is a live show. Since General Manager Pierre Doriann is going to speak in about 10 minutes, so I got to leave my perch in the press box. And I'm going to leave this show in the very capable hands of the two of you. Great. Okay. So we're waiting on Mertil.

He isn't quite here yet. But I would like to say that in honor of the Toronto Maple Leaf's big last hour move, Maple Leafs had a guy 666, 67 redeems Horna in a trade with, in a trade with Calgary. We are adding our own 6 foot 6, 6 foot 7 player here in James Myrtle. In James Myrtle. That's unbelievable tall. Yeah.

He is. He's like 6.5, whatever he is, right? He's a tall guy. 7.2. That's going to be... That's going to be the trades. All right. So we want to see some Friday chemistry here, okay?

Friday vides. Oh, I'm so tired, though. My God. I've been typing all day, Ian. This is unreasonable. All right. Listen, I'm going to get out of here. Thank you so much for hanging out with us, both of you.

This was great. even though this trade deadline was a little bit flat, this was a lot of fun. So thanks for doing this. Totally. Thanks for having me. Goodbye. Goodbye, Ian. I hope someone sends me the script I have to say later.

Danielle. You should probably talk in your microphone. Can you not hear me? I think that'll be a great idea. Yeah, there you are. Things are going swimmingly since Ian has left the show. Looking at the Klingberg conversation, though, we did. get a comment in here.

As we wait for Myrtle, there's lots of comments in coming in live here on the stream. But with Klingberg, you know, Klingberg didn't really bet on himself. Like his agent just kind of tumbled the bag. Like that's, I think that's the, he fired his agent. He got a new agent.

So that's the cautionary tale. It's like, don't wait that long and play your hand the way that you did. because he still made $7 million this year. So I don't think John Klingberg's a cautionary tale for anyone. Maybe he left some money on the table because he's not, he wasn't very good this year. So he's probably leaving money on the table long term because his next deal

probably won't be for $7 million. If you're a player who bets on yourself, just make sure you're trending in the right direction. And that just hasn't been true for John Klingberg for the last however many years, right? Like he hasn't, wasn't playing the same role in Dallas for a reason. And I get, I get why maybe he, he or his, or his agent thought that, thought that this would work out.

Like, you want players that have confidence in themselves. But, man, you look at the way he was trending as an individual. We knew that the ducks were going to be terrible, maybe not quite as bad as they have been. You got to be careful. If you're going to bet on yourself, you got to, you got to make sure that the situation is right. And you certainly got to make sure you're getting good advice from representation. Clearly, John Klingberg didn't think so. He's moved on, you know, he moved on really after that disaster.

of a of a free agency tour over the summer, right? A couple more comments we got in here, and this was something that I brought up in the live blog. It was something that I brought up on the show already. The Seattle Cracken were one of the teams that were rumored to be poking around on John Klingberg. The Cracken come to the deadline, and now, of course, things could sneak under the wire.

They don't get announced yet. Like, that always happens, but it's 319 Eastern. and the Seattle Cracken didn't really buy. And they also didn't sell off some of the pending free agents that they have on the board right now. Cracken just didn't do anything. And I'm kind of okay with that. I think obviously the West is open to win and the Cracken are in a playoff position.

But I also think that this is a team and Ron Francis is a GM. We know he values his assets and his cap space. and I don't think that Ron Francis was going to do anything to sacrifice everything that they built coming through the expansion draft, right? Yeah, they're very good this year, but it's still only year two of the organization. And they do not want to be getting rid of all of the assets that they did all that work at the expansion draft to get just for what? To try to have a good plan. I think there's, I think there probably is a middle ground. I think there was probably a middle ground for them,

Like you don't have you're not talking about trading Shane Wright or you know and anything crazy like that. They are where I was interested in seeing if JVR would be an option, right? A team like them, a team like Colorado, we do have a comment from Graham who is the Aves fan. He's asking why they didn't add a middle six winger. I think you can lump them into the JVR mix. That's a place where he would have made a lot of sense. It seemed like both weren't or where we're in on him in some capacity. is what Philly's asking price was. It clearly was something that no team was willing to meet

on a player who, yes, his statistics this year are brutal, a lot of that has to do with the environment he's playing in. I think he's a guy, even though he's 34, and I say this is a 37-year-old man who's talking about JVR, like he's, you know, a mummy or something, which is, which is, which is ridiculous. But I think you could have added him to a lineup and kind of seemed kind of, he seemed like a prime rejuvenation candidate, right, for a playoff run. So I was interested in seeing him end up with Colorado and Seattle in particular, but clearly that didn't come to pass. So yeah, I think there is, there is a middle ground where, you know, second round pick, third round pick, whatever, where you could have nodded towards the playoff run that you're on, or the playoff push

that you're trying to make if you're Seattle or whoever else. And then without like actually trying to sell the farm. And I think JVR would have been a great keynote there. And now here we are, 32. It doesn't seem like the one anywhere. And we do have James Myrtle standing by. Finally, he is here. Wow. It's time. Finally. Finally. Is this the end? For 315 Eastern.

James, you have a six minutes and 40 seconds to talk about whatever you're going to talk about here. So make it come. I'm here to talk about whatever you guys want me to talk about. I'm ready. We've been left, so we've got no notes. I'm just kidding That's not true I'm just joking

Well I think the leaves are done If that's your first question It sounds like today was a nothing burger for them So Well they got a lot of their heavy lifting done already Right like today was it okay to be a bit of a dud Like did you think that they left something unchecked James because they get the top six forward

They get a bottom six forward They check a box On their blue line like what else were you maybe thinking the Leafs could get up to today? I mean, what a lot of people were looking at is that first round pick they got from Washington for Sandy. And where are they going to do something with that? Where are they going to flip that for? I don't know.

I mean, the thing is like the Leafs brought in six players. Like how many more players can you can even integrate six players properly in 20 games? That's going to be the real test for Sheldon Keefe to get them ready for the playoffs. As you got all these guys who have never played together, you know, basically most of their lines. are new. Most of their D pairings are brand new, and you're getting ready to face Tampa Bay in, you know, six weeks. I said that to, I said that to Dom yesterday, right? Like, how many more guys do you want to incorporate in the lineup there? I know that they have that first round pick from Washington. I know that they have more defense men now than they certainly did a week ago. So,

it seemed like they were adding assets to maybe add to the, to the third line or whatever the plan was there. But at some point, you got to be done, right? And I think, you know, it made sense for them to find themselves in that spot today. Yeah, I mean, I think the only thing that I might quibble with is like maybe get another depth goaltender because you don't know what's going on with Matt Murray and Samson's young and inexperienced. But I don't know. Like I thought maybe they could get like a Thomas Grice or like some sort of number three option

because Murray's played 19 games this year. Like I don't even know he's on this trip here and he's probably going to, he's supposed to be back at some point, but, you know, he's, he's one, you know, sprained ankle away from not being available in the playoffs. And then all of a sudden you've got Joseph Wool, who's, you know, barely played in the NHL is going to be your backup. So that would be the only thing that I think they could have done differently. And he looked okay yesterday, but I feel like... He's had a great year. Yeah. He's had a great, he's at a great season. So it seemed like Dubus has kind of made the choice on who the goalie tandem is going to be and they're going to stick with that.

Yeah, I mean, I think they're still high on Mad Marie, despite the fact that he's barely played the last two years. I still think that they think he's going to come in and play really well over the last month of the season, win back the starting role and start on the first game of the playoffs. But, you know, we've been waiting for that. We've been waiting for that all year. And I mean, the thing, too, is that Samsonov's out played him when he has played. So I don't know how they could go back to Murray, but they still seem pretty high on him. So we'll see what happens. I mean, it's, if they end up going out in the first round again,

the goal tending is going to be something that everyone's going to be talking about because they didn't have very much cap space last summer, and they spent what little they had $4.7 million on Matt Murray, and he's barely been able to play. So that limited, like, how much more dramatically they could make over the roster. Like, I just, you know, you get Ryan O'Reilly on the double retention and you get Jake McCabe on half retention for more than two years. I think those are both great moves and then everything else is depth.

And I don't, the Sandine thing doesn't surprise me either because I don't think he didn't want to be here. You know, he certainly didn't want to be here as a number seven. He was, he wasn't going to be happy. And he wasn't going to be the kind of guy if someone got hurt and you put him in the lineup that was going to be ready to go. So we saw all six of the new faces in the lineup last night against the Calgary Flames. Luke Shannon, Eric Gustafson made their debuts. But that was the first time we saw all six. And obviously now we know that.

the deadline's over and the Leafs haven't done anything else. This is their roster. This is what they're working with. There's going to be some changes like who's in the lineup, who's out and who slots and where, but this is what the Leafs are going to look like down the stretch and into the playoffs, James. I think one of the biggest questions, at least for me, is where do you see the right fit for Ryan O'Reilly? I am still personally torn. I wrote about it in the Leas Report cards last night. I don't know where he fits best. Like, I guess it just depends. do you want Ryan O'Reilly to be part of like a productive top six or do you want him to be the center for a really good matchup line against the Tampa Bay Lightning in the postseason?

I suspect they're probably going to put him on third line center and use them in a shutdown role. But the issue is that if you put him there, whoever he's playing with, they're probably not going to be a line that can generate offense. So, you know, personally, I was at the game in Seattle and they looked fantastic. and then they go into Edmonton and they look brutal. So, you know, there's still a learning curve there for what they're going to do with the lines. But in Seattle watching them play, it was like the Leafs had two first lines, basically, with the magic that Marner and Matthews were creating. And then you roll out Tavares and Nylander and O'Reilly.

And it's like, wow, like, this is really impressive. So I think that they have something there. And I wonder, you know, in the playoffs, it could be you see a little bit of both. You know, maybe they go back and forth. Maybe they have one look at home and one look on the road. That could be something that they attempt to do. But you put O'Reilly in the top six, and then all of a sudden you got David Kempf in your third line, probably not getting a lot of offense there, probably not getting

a lot of offense from your fourth line. And that's been a problem. Last year against Tampa in the first round, Tampa's bottom six greatly outplayed Tronnos, especially offensively. And it was one of the differences in the series. John, you're still there? Oh, yeah, we're all still here. I'm focused on the news of.

We got the, we got the Klingberg return. Joe Smith, Joe Smith reporting this. The ducks are getting a fourth in 2025, Andre Schuster, who I forgot was still in the league, and the rights to Nikita Nestarenko, who Corey Promen texted me,

he says, Nestorenko is a very just okay prospect. That's how Corey turned it. And apparently they weren't going to sign him anyways. And the ducks get to retain half on Klingberg. So this. Not much. No.

No much. They thought they were going to get a first round and they retained for basically a fourth round pick and some roster flotsam and jetsam. So, yeah. Didn't work out. Klingberg, like a lot of ducks, had a terrible season. And it's amazing. It is amazing how bad every duck's numbers are. Like we went into that when we were looking at Kulikov.

Because Kulikov is a guy who you knew was going to move in some capacity. He was, you know, an effective player for the last couple years. ends up in Anaheim playing on a terrible team playing big boy minutes you know against top lines he got caved in and that's true for shoot that's true that's true that's true for clinkberg and it's true for a lot of other guys in that roster so it's amazing your clingberg and you know he's negotiating with Dallas for that long contract and they they come to an impasse and then all of a sudden you know like how much money did he leave on the table like he's never going to get back to where the numbers were when he would like it's it's incredible so and if what happened in anaheim is

really his value then Dallas dodged a huge bullet with that one I think that's kind of what I was getting at earlier when we were talking about, was he wrong to bet on himself, whatever. That's almost beside the point. The guy who he was for the last couple years in Dallas combined with what we've seen from him in Anaheim, like this is just who he is now. There's not a lot of meat left on that bone. So yeah, he should have fired his agent because he lost tens of millions of dollars that it doesn't seem like he's going to be able to recoup. Yeah. And it's in this like flat cap environment guys have to be really careful about.

going to the wall and negotiations over not that much money, comparatively speaking, when there's a big long-term deal on the table because you can end up in a situation like this. So pretty incredible. Is there a team that kind of disappointed you at the deadline, James, in terms of like making bad moves or not doing anything at all? I didn't like what Vancouver did. I mean, I know that that's not really like a hot take, but, you know,

I just don't understand. And there was a report, I think Darren Dregor reported that they had a J.T. Miller, I don't know if it was a conversation or a trade that was going to, and they turned it down because they wanted like a roster player, not picks back. I mean, I think the situation that Vancouver's in, they should disappear that J.T. Miller contract for futures as quickly as they can. But it seems like whether it's the new management or its ownership or whatever, they're not living in the reality of what's happening there where they're not going to be. competitive. They're not going to be a quick turn team, but they keep acting like one. So, you know, and I would be really wary of being any general manager and going into a trade negotiation with Steve Eiserman, you know, and he's trying to, he's trying to, he's trying to give you a young defenseman having a great season. I'd be like, what's the catch? So we're probably, we're probably going to see what the catch is here and like, you know, maybe you throw up the end of the season. But, you know, Heronics got a big qualifying offer, 5.3. And he's going to need a new

contract, which is going to be huge. And whether or not he can move up to that deal, I guess we'll see. And we'll see if, like, he gives them anything in the window when the Kucks are going to be competitive, which who the hell knows when that's going to be? An even best case scenario, that guy, you said, 5.3 QO, you sign him long term. He's making almost four and a half this year alone. Like, he's past the point of being a cost of effective player. Like, you're not, even if he's good, you're not going to be saving any money on,

on whatever you pay him. It's crazy. I've been here for a couple of days in Vancouver and it's a mess here. And everyone you talk to here is like, this is a disaster. You know, and they're going to have a hard time selling tickets. There's going to be, I remember back, I think it was 98 or 99 when everything was a complete mess here and they were getting 13,000 going to games. Like, we might see a repeat of that at some point. I mean, it seemed like there was caught.

We said this before you came on, but it seemed like there was cautious optimism over the direction and stuff with, even though the Horvett return isn't great, but at least suggested because there was. wasn't some other, that the main piece wasn't another 27 or 28 year old guy. There was some kind of cautious optimism. It seemed like from what I've seen at least from people on Twitter and whatever else. Maybe, maybe, maybe this was going to be the pivot point. Clearly that hasn't happened. They've overcorrected in a big way. I feel like we would not be surprised by what Vancouver is doing, though.

Like Jim Rutherford came out and said like we, like, we're going to be competitive. Like he said three years was generous. Like they think they're going to be good in two. So they're making moves based on a management ownership group, whatever it may be that thinks that they're going to be able to ice a really good roster in two years. So they're, I don't know what's funnier is, what's funnier,

signing J.T. Miller to that contract originally or then turning down the chance to maybe get out from under it because you want to one draft picks. Like what is the more ridiculous decision? Because they're both bad. Yeah. Yeah. Good luck. Good luck out there, everybody. Finding him that deal when his value was so damn high at the deadline.

I sat on national television last year and said, why did the Vancouver conducts not move J.T. Miller? And people in Vancouver were like, because he's great. He was great last year. You signed guys at your absolute peak value. And then, yeah. I mean, look at and look at the, they got Ekman-Larson that, you know, people are talking about potentially a buyout for him.

And you look at the bio number and it's like, oh, my. Like, I think it's, I think they're going to be like a 7 million cap hit just on the buyout. Like, it's incredible. They need to just, they need to just eat it. They need to, they need to just keep him playing. Like I, I, a bio that, that high for that long. He can't play, though. He can't play. His body's done. I guess that's, that's door number two. You send up the HL and you get your $1.1 million in very cap space. And like, it's, it's incredible here what's happened. And I, the, the big thing is that they're trying to do this quick turn is I don't know if the star guys are going to want to be here.

I don't know that Demco or Pedersen are going to want to be here. So then what do you do? If they move Brock Besser, I think. think that's going to have that's going to be a problem just continually something that people forget in that room who are very close with Brock Besser people forget players have players have agency they have they have that you know they have some some amount of the agency of over their future they can they can they can they can on some level decide whether they want to be a part of it or not people people forget it all the time oh god do I wish I was I wish I was to fly on the wall for the for the J.T. Miller conversations between Vancouver and Pittsburgh because

they certainly happened and I wish I could have seen how they went. I've been well hopefully more of that comes out I mean like Pittsburgh's the other team that's taken a lot of heat right now so can you imagine if they would have pulled that trade like what would that trade have even looked like do you think Sean like what would Pittsburgh have been trying to throw in some some so I think I think the day before yesterday when they that would be a huge mistake that was I think that was the fear of a lot of people around here today was that Pedersen was going to end up going to going out because it seemed like they were trying to do something big they'd already use all the cap space that they had on on Granland. I think that that was at least part of their plan on on on

Wednesday was adding the cap space necessary to be able to accommodate chikrin or accommodate you know maybe Miller a little bit more more easily fell apart and then you know what happens. someone panics and Michael Granlin gets added to the roster. But yeah, it's pretty gross mismanagement. Honestly, that's the other end of the conversation when we're talking about Dregor's report that, you know, that there was a conversation that was had and Patrick Alvin was like, no, whatever, we need a roster player coming back. Like, there was another guy on the phone, right?

Somebody was rescued. Someone was bailed out by Patrick Alvin in the Vancouver Canucks. And I think all signs point, all signs point east. I'll say that much. Right. One more Leafs question for you, James. And actually one little bit of news here from Pierre LeBron, our colleague at the athletic. He says, Flames GM, Chuck Fletcher says he, quote, did not receive a firm offer from any team on James Van Riemsdike.

Says they spoke with one team about a trade concept, but it was conditional on that team making another move. And that move didn't happen. work the market hard past few weeks, but no fit. How about you make the hard offer, Chuck? When did you go to the flames, Haley? I don't remember that. Did I say flames? Oh, no, sorry, I had to call you out.

Did I say flames? I meant red wings. She totally did, right? Sean's not backing me up here. I'm really, I didn't sleep out. I wasn't paying attention. I was, fine. I was reading Pierre's tweet myself.

I don't. Everyone knew what you meant. I don't. that's too bad for Van Reeves' because I think Sean was saying earlier it would have been nice to see him go somewhere and he's had a pretty good season in Philly but not that anyone's been watching

but he's a very good guy on the power boy even at his mummified age. He was that, yeah, he's, he's so brave. I'm just trying to pull this last tweet up from Chris Johnson that I saw James. It was about Leaf's not doing anything else. Matt Murray, they have enough cap space to be able to get him off,

LTIR and they have enough cap space to not just activate Matt Murray, but also sign Matthew Nyes to his entry level contract once the NCAA season slash playoffs are complete. This goes perfectly with the question that we had in the comment section here was how does Matthew Nyes fit into the Leafs playoff plans this season after he's done in college? And that'll be the final question for you. Yeah, I was talking to cat friendly. actually just before I came on about how much space they're actually going to have. I think they're going to have kept friendly thought it was going to be around 850

is what the leaves you're going to have to work with. So that's probably close to exactly what Nyes will get on the contract. The question is when is his season over in college and when can he come in and how many games can he play? He might only get a couple of games depending on how deep they go. So Kyle Jubis was recently in Minnesota, met with Nyes, watched him play. I'm sure they worked out whatever the contract details were. And I'm sure it's going to get done.

And then it's going to depend on how. how he plays. You know, they're going to give him a shot in a regular season. And if he does really well, then he'll play in the playoffs. But, you know,

it's interesting. Like, they're so tight to the cap. Like, if they spend almost all that 850 on Nyes, they can't even, unless there's injuries, they can't even recall some players that they've got in the H.L because they don't have a,

like, they can't bring up Wayne Simmons. And, like, they're, they're really, really tight. So it's, so the,

the hope in terms of, like, bringing up people to fill in it forward is, it's really Matthew Nyes, like he's going to play an important role for them here. I feel like league-wide, this is where we're really seeing that. Look, we've seen a ton of trades over the last week more than we typically do. Everyone said that because the flat cap, it was going to be a boring deadline.

The flat cap is what happens now because a lot of these teams are going to have major trouble managing the bottoms of their rosters for the next however many weeks. Like, yeah, we saw deals, deadline day, kind of a bust. But the last week, there was a lot of action. And now, and now we're, we're going to watch, you know, teams pay the price, I think. Well, look at the Rangers is a perfect example, right? Like, yeah, there's going to definitely be more of that. Pittsburgh.

I mean, like, they don't have a full roster right now. And it doesn't, it doesn't seem like they're, they're going to for the next little bit. The leaves are carrying nine defensemen. They don't have any cap space for the, like, it's, it's bizarre. So, you know, like, if, like, if two forwards get hurt, then, they're going to play, what are they going to play 8D? Like, it was, Morgan Riley left wing.

Morgan Riley. All the fans have been asking for. Oh my God, they've been begging for years. Play them up, baby. It might actually happen thanks to the cap. Oh, God. That would be the worst thing that would, that could happen for like the Morgan Riley critics

because they would just feel so vindicated in hating his guts and saying he's a bad defender. Anyways, thanks, James. Yeah, good show, guys. That's fun. Oh, great. Mendez tagged me in. I didn't realize I was going to be doing this. That's fine. Glad he's, glad he's taken care of his business. I didn't know that I was going to be stuck doing this with Sean and you for a half an hour.

Oh, good. I didn't drink enough coffee for this. All right. Well, good luck, guys. Don't fire me. Thanks, buddy. Okay. Thanks, everyone for joining the special live. live stream edition of the athletic hockey show.

Thank you to Sean for being tagged in and doing that on zero notice. I know you have a ton of stuff left to write today. So these days are always super, super long. And you took a bunch of time to come and do this. Fluto, Laz, Myrtle, and Mendez, obviously, was in here too. Thanks to everybody for listening, for watching live on YouTube, and for making comments and asking us questions. This was a lot of fun for me to do.

do as well. And I just want to remind everyone that this show is going to be going up as a podcast in a little while. So please make sure you follow the athletic hockey show in your favorite podcast platform. And right now you can get a one year subscription to The Athletic for $2 a month when you visit Theathletic.com slash hockey show. Thanks again, everyone for listening. Enjoy the rest of your week. Deadline is, uh, looks like it's officially over. Thanks, everyone.