The Athletic Hockey Show - NHL Trade Deadline Edition (recorded LIVE!)

Episode Date: April 12, 2021

Ian and Hailey are joined by The Athletic’s Scott Burnside, Jonas Siegel, Kevin Kurz, Fluto Shinzawa, Josh Yohe, and Mark Lazerus before and after the NHL trade deadline, giving their respective insights and analysis.Please note: this episode was recorded from 2:00-3:30pm ET on Monday, April 12, 2021.Sign up for an annual subscription to The Athletic for just $3.99 a month when you visit http://theathletic.com/hockeyshow Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hey everybody and welcome to our athletic hockey show Trade Deadline live edition of the podcast. Ian Mendez, Haley Salvean with you. And yeah, we're live for this just past 2 o'clock Eastern time on this trade deadline Monday. We might be a little bit sleep deprived because the couple of teams that we cover happen to make some deals late last night. And Haley, before we get to that, I think we had a little bit of fun with the fact that Calgary and Ottawa made some deals. I got to tell you, this has actually been a little bit more of an exciting trade deadline period than I think I had anticipated. You know, going into this, all I heard was flat cap and nobody's got money and there's not going to be. It's a buyer's market.

But guess what? In the last 72 hours or so, we've seen the likes of David Savard and Nick Falino and Jeff Carter and Taylor Hall. Like some legitimately big names have been moved. And I would say, and maybe because we had the expectations a little bit lower, this hasn't been an understanding. an underwhelming trade deadline for me. I don't know how you felt about the last 72 hours or so. Well, I think the key term that you said is trade deadline period. I think if you were to look at this from a trade deadline day perspective,

for people who are maybe doing five hour long broadcast about the entire day, then maybe today specifically has been a little bit slow. We've seen a couple of deals, a few more minor ones. But obviously when you look at the whole body of what's happened at this trade deadline period, then yes, there has been a lot more movement. You know, we've seen the Taylor Hall trade. We saw Nick Felina. We saw David Riddick, Mike Riley.

There has been a lot more Jeff Carter. There's been a lot more happening than I think, as you said, we initially thought. But they haven't been on deadline day. I think I made the joke twice of, oh, was today the trade deadline? I did it like two days in a row because things had started happening before. actual deadline day. But, you know, I understand getting a little bit of a head start, you know, especially when there's quarantines. I mean, it's only a day or so for some of these teams. But definitely there's been more movement than I think we initially thought because initially, I think

we both thought, and a lot of people thought that this was going to be a very quiet trade deadline. And we're going to have our roster of athletic writers join us through the course of this show. We're going to get to about 90 minutes worth. We'll take it to about 3.30 Eastern time. And of course, if something significant or seismic happens, we'll be sure to kind of break that all down. Now, I know the way that your schedule works today, it just so happens that the general manager of the team that you cover, Brad Trilliving, is of speaking to the media at three Eastern time, one o'clock mountain. So the way we're going to do this just so our audience is aware and our listeners are aware, you are going to jump out just at the top of the hour here. and we're going to make a trade, the co-host of the two-man advantage edition

of the Athletic Hockey Show podcast, Scott Burnside is going to slide in. So we're going to have Scott Burnside come in for the last 30 minutes. But the team that you do cover, Haley, the Calgary Flames, made a trade yesterday. Do you expect them to be active at all?

Like, do you think Sam Bennett could be on the move here in the next hour or so? Well, yeah, I think that the Calgary Flames are probably trying to be active. But I think the one, you know, thing that a lot of us here in the market have discussed is, you know, when you look at maybe some of the, you know, at the draft, teams have their draft boards. They have their list of players that they really want. I think, unfortunately,

if you're the Calgary Flames, some of their unrestricted free agents are probably not at the top of their trade boards. So I think with the flames, they're kind of waiting to see, you know, who has interest in their players, who maybe falls through, what contenders are still looking to add pieces, is because what the flames continue to have to offer after David Riddick is, you know, a lot of depth pieces, players like Derek Ryan, Joachim Nordstrom, Josh Livo, Sam Bennett is an option as well. He is a restricted free agent this year. And he's somebody who did ask for a trade at the beginning of the season just a couple of weeks into, you know, this year with the Calgary Flames.

So, you know, we've been talking about a Sam Bennett trade for a while now. it feels like we've been talking about it all season because we have. And he's definitely an option. I think if there's a team who's looking for a player who can play really well in the playoffs, we've all heard and seen playoff Sam Bennett. That is very valuable. And the flames are in a position where they could retain salary. Sam Bennett doesn't have a huge cap hit.

It's about $2.25 million. I don't have it up in front of me right now. But it's under $3 million. So it's a fair salary. if he retained, then it's not going to be too, too much for a team acquiring Sam Bennett. And he's a guy who can be very versatile in your bottom six. He can play all three positions. He's done so with Daryl's played left wing, right wing, center.

He's been on the third line. He's been on the fourth line. You know, he had a really, really slow start to the season. He had, you know, three goals and six points in his first 32 games. But he now has, you know, six points in his last six games. And, you know, he's been put on the power play, put on the peak. He's been given more opportunity and he's been given more confidence from his coach. And we're starting to see that through his play.

So Sam Bennett's been a player that's been identified as somebody who maybe given a change of scenery, he could start being playoff Sam Bennett in the regular season and help a team in the postseason. So he's definitely an option for contenders looking to add something to their, you know, bottom six or middle six. Well, the Toronto Maple Leafs added to their bottom six, middle six by picking up Nick Folino over the week. and giving up a first round pick. Jonas Siegel, who covers the Maple Leafs, is going to be our first guest coming up here in about 10 minutes from now, a little later this hour.

We're going to go to Boston, and we're going to go to San Jose, and we're going to go to a couple of other hotspots around the National Hockey League using, as I mentioned, our roster of reporters with the Athletic, and it's a great opportunity for us to talk about where teams are at. Do we think anybody has improved themselves? And I'm really interested here, Haley,

to hear from general managers, When they speak to the media in the next hour or two hours, how much of an impact do you think the Seattle expansion draft has had on people's decision-making? Because I think that's the unseen hand in all of this. Well, it's huge. And I did a one-on-one with general manager Bradtree living here in Calgary a couple weeks ago. And I asked him, you know, with all of the considerations going into this trade deadline with the flat cap, with the quarantine, you know, how difficult is it to make moves this year?

And he even said, you know, Seattle is a big part of that. You know, we're not trying to make excuses. We're going to make some moves to improve our team, get some assets. But there's a lot of things that you have to take into consideration this year. And Seattle is front of mind. And Brad Tree Living has said, you know, there's been many, many conversations, you know, with Seattle, with everything. Because, you know, you don't want to go and make a trade for a player that you cannot protect. And then you just lose him to Seattle because then you're getting.

giving up an asset for a guy that you're going to lose for nothing. Or do you go and trade for a player and then you have to protect said player and then you lose somebody else that you didn't want to? You know, we all did those who says no stories here at the athletic and one of the ones that made sense in a way, in theory for the flames and the Minnesota Wild was, you know, a Sean Monaghan Matt Dumba type trade because when you look at the Minnesota Wilds, they have three defensemen with full no move clauses. And Matt Dunba is not one of them.

So there's been this belief that Dumbo could be on the move because he's probably going to get taken by Seattle because they cannot protect who is a very good defenseman. But if you're the Calgary Flames, do you go and trade for Matt Dunba? And then you cannot, and then you can't protect him or you can't protect Chris Tanev, Mark Giordano, Rasmus Anderson, or Noah Hanofin.

So it's, there's a lot of, lot of considerations and I think Seattle is a very big one. So I think there's probably been a lot of phone calls with with the management group in Seattle saying, hey, if I go and acquire this guy, can we make some kind of side deal that you do not take him or, you know, what can we work out together to make sure that I can make this deal and be fine in expansion? So I think, you know, if we go around the league and ask this question of general managers, I think Seattle has been probably a really, really big part of what's happening at this deadline. See, now I'm just picturing Seattle General Manager, Ron Francis, sitting in a big leather chair,

maybe with a cat on his lap. He's the evil genius. And people are phoning him and he's like, hello. And he's got all the power sitting there. I think general managers certainly learned, though, Haley, from what happened with the Vegas draft. What a difference a couple of years makes, right? I think a lot of general managers went into the Vegas draft in 2007.

and didn't quite realize the implications that were afoot and basically made Vegas a ready-made Stanley Cup contender. This time, I think general managers are going in with their eyes wide open. So that's a great point that you raised, that they might be looking over to Seattle already and thinking, how can I make some moves and protect myself? But I also love that when I hear people say, well, the general manager would like to make a hockey trade. Like, really? Because what were you trying to get Kauai Leonard? Like, of course you're making a hockey trade.

Come on. Like, you're making a hockey trade. I get it. But I don't know if this is the time to do it. If after the season is the time. And again, probably just before that Seattle draft, I think it's going to be, I almost think that the Seattle expansion draft is going,

we're going to see more activity around that than we might see on a day like today. But I'll still say today hasn't been underwhelming. the last 72 hours hasn't been overwhelming for me. Yeah, it's the last 72 hours. I mean, today has been interesting for me personally, and we discussed this before we started, but our colleague, Dom Lus Chishin, got locked out of his Twitter account on Trade Deadline Day. So I get a text this morning saying, hey, do you want to be chart girl for the day? Because I can't log into my Twitter account. So as we are doing the podcast, I am also, we, we can see for anyone watching you can the glare is terrible you can't actually see it for those listening

or watching uh dom has been sending me his charts with his witty banter to go along with it um he is very critical already you know he's a lot more harsh than i am so i've had to distill things down from the way that dom would say it um and you know he got mad at me for using capital letters because apparently when he does his charts he only does all lowercase so it's been a learning curve for me today. Busy day with the trade deadline. I'm doing charts. I'm doing the broadcast and the podcast and covering the flames. So, you know, there hasn't been that much happening in the league, but there's a lot happening here in my condo building today. We're wearing many hats today. Well, I'd like to know how our resident statistical guru, Dom, got locked out of his Twitter account.

Yeah. I think someone probably tried to hack into his account. I know some people were joking around and saying that his like overly aggressive hatred of the haul trade is probably what got him booted because he was not happy yesterday. You take a look through his timeline. He was pretty heated. So some people thought it was funny. It was like you were so angry that Twitter said we need to give this guy a break. But I think there was probably some kind of compromise to the account.

So just hopeful that, you know, he's able to get back in and everything's fine. but it is funny to think that it was his anger over the whole deal that got included off Twitter, of all things. Well, I think it's pretty interesting when you look at, like, his initial report card that he did of the deal was, you know, he didn't pull any punches and given Buffalo like an F, I think maybe F minus on the deal. And we do want to remind you that if you head on over to the Athletic, if you're one of our subscribers, you do get the opportunity to get those real-time report cards right away. The beatwriters are making assessments on the deals. and as well, Sean McIndoo, who's down goes brown, Sean Gentile.

They've got a live blog going all day. Kind of taking more of a humorous look, though, Haley, at some of the deals that have gone on. So it's a really active day for all of us, but it's a fun day. It feels good too because I think there's been so few days on the NHL calendar that have felt, quote, unquote, normal to us. Kind of being around the trade deadline feels pretty good.

Where do you stand on the idea, Haley? I've seen this thrown out by a number of people saying, you know what the n hl should not have any games on trade deadline day trade deadline day it's unfair to the players it's unfair to everybody you know what don't play games on trade deadline day have it a clear day on the schedule and allow players to not have to worry about the distractions of a game yeah i understand that um and i believe last year at the trade deadline we asked quite a few of the sense players about that too and i think it depends who you talk to i think you know you talk to you talk to some some coaches and some players about the trade deadline and they say, you know, it's just a business,

you know, we try to filter it out. Of course, there's going to be players in different situations who feel more anxiety about this day, you know, or it's a lot more personal for players. You know, I think everyone handles it differently. I think it's an emotional day for some players. You know, I think that you think back to, again, with Ottawa last year, you know, there's a lot of players who, it was a tough day seeing Jean-Gabriel Pajot leave, not just for the players, but for the equipment staff, the trainers, the coaches. Like, that was, I remember walking to the rank, like, it's just to see the way that the world has changed, too. I mean, the trade deadline last year was not only months ago, but I was in Columbus, like sprinting from my hotel room.

I'm passing Vladim Mastikov on the street who just got traded saying goodbye, saying, you know, good luck in Colorado. Then you're trying to get into the arena. You're seeing Pajos bags get packed up. And the equipment guys, like moving his bag onto the bus and finding a way to get him out, get them back to the hotel. Like, that's a tough day for everyone across the board, depending on who the player is. So I totally understand that. But I'm sure there's a lot of players and coaches who, if you would ask that question, they would say, no, it's just a business.

Like, we're going to play. Yeah. No, it's really interesting to see. So I'll tell you what, as we talk about the deals that have gone down, I think one of the biggest ones, the Toronto, Beliefs, kind of reaching back a little bit into their past because Mike Filino was a part of those great teams under Pat Burns in the early 1990s got to conference finals with him in 1993. They're hoping maybe this can be, you know, Felino 2.0, get them into the final four.

Jonas Siegel is one of our members who covers the Toronto Maple Leafs for the Athletic. I think Jonas is all set to join us here in this live edition of the Athletic Hockey Show podcast. There he is. Jonas, welcome to the show. the last 24 hours been for you as the Toronto Maple Leafs have been a pretty active player here? I think what's been good for us is like we've been kind of expecting a lot of the stuff that they've done. Like we talked about like this forward that they needed basically since the early days of the season, like someone that could play in their top nine, somebody could play on their top line,

play in their second line, kill penalties, playing the power play. And Nick Folino kind of checks a lot of those boxes. I think it's a really interesting kind of play for them in that he fits in. the mold of what they did in the off season, someone with experience, someone with some grit, someone who can maybe raise his temperature in the playoffs. The question is, is it enough? And obviously they're kind of boxed in a little bit by Frederick Anderson and his kind of uncertain status for the rest of the season. But I think Dick Folino's an upgrade on what they have. It's just, is he the right upgrade is going to be the question.

Was this something that was in your kind of ballpark? Park, was he somebody that you kind of highlighted as a player who could help the Toronto Maple Leafs? Or did this come out of left field a little bit for you? No, it's funny. Like James and I, James Myrtle and I did a list of targets for the Leafs. Like it might have been a month ago. And when we did it, we looked at Folino and we kind of came to the conclusion like Columbus is in it.

Like if they're going to be right around this mix, like they've been in past years, they're probably not going to trade their captain. And then obviously their season has changed. and he kind of became more of someone you could envision them going after. He just fits a lot of the stuff that they've been talking about. Like they went into the offseason guys after last year, after that playoff series with Columbus and said, like, we have to kind of change our element a little bit.

We kind of need to become more competitive. We need to be tougher to play against. And obviously guys like Zach Wigodian, Joe Thornton, Wayne Simmons, and now Nick Polino, they really fit that. It was just going to be whether he was available. And that was kind of the box that, you know, Kyle Dubus and a lot of the GMs across the league were in is how many teams were selling and how many teams were like clear sellers. And obviously Columbus with all the injuries that they've had and some of the struggles that they've had on the ice became a clear seller. You know, Jonas, one of the things I think I sent you and James Myrtle a note yesterday.

One of the memories I have at Nick Folino is him telling me years ago when he was about four years old, He has some of his earliest memories are going into Pat Burns's office at the old Maple Leaf Gardens. And Pat used to always have candy for him. And, you know, he would come and hang out because his dad Mike played for the Maple Leafs and Pat Burns. How much is that storyline and angle being played up in Toronto? And how cool is it that Nick Felino looks like he's going to wear his old, his dad's old number 71? Oh, it's going to be a huge story. Like, you know how these things go.

Like, this is great. They're going to be able to go on the broadcast and, like, take videos of his dad. and then they're going to be able to put the side by side with Nick. And like it helps, like you guys know this working in media. He's a fantastic quote and a fantastic talker. Like if this guy doesn't go into media after he's done, like it's a shame for media. But it's going to be a big story. And I think he's the right kind of personality for it.

Like it's interesting, like the 71 thing when they signed David Clarkson all those years ago, there was all this talk about like Wendell Clark. and like David Carson like leaned into it and he obviously took the number 71 and it was like almost creating too much of like this mythology about who he was and what he was going to contribute. It's not like that obviously with Nick Tolino like he's so secure and comfortable in the league and he's been around for so long and obviously he's grown up around the rank and the Leaves have a lot of guys like that like obviously William Nealder trying to think who else his dad has played in the NHL but it's not one. So they've kind of got that those hockey bloodlines running throughout the

room. Looking at, and you mentioned earlier about Freddie Anderson and, you know, is this going to be enough for the Toronto Maple Leafs? The Leafs go out and sign David Riddick from the Calgary, or trade, excuse me, for David Riddick from the Calgary Flames. Is there an expectation that Dave is going to be playing as a number two until Freddie can come back? I guess what does this mean for the Leafs' goaltending situation? I think you hit on it. I think he's going to be the number. or two until they get Frederick Anderson back. Like they keep saying he's going to be back and like all the whispers and such like from the team are that they're expecting him back at some point.

But the reality is, is he hasn't been on the ice in three plus weeks. And he was really struggling with an injury before that. He was struggling with his play. So I don't think they think they can really expect anything from him at this point. So they need insurance. They need someone who's better than Michael Hutchinson. and like you can debate whether David Rich is is better than Michael Hutchinson. I think he is.

I just think it's a little more experience just in case. Because the other thing is like Jack Campbell's gone on this crazy run. He goes for 12 and 0 tonight, which is nuts. But he's battled like his own injury issues. And that's like something that they're still managing. So just to have another guy who can play in the league and can play if they actually need him, I think is what they were after. Well, and I think, oh, sorry, Ian, I think the one thing I'll just jump in and say, I mean, it's, and I had this conversation with someone earlier today, it's very strikingly similar, the situation that the Leafs are in at, that the Colorado Avalanche were in last year. Yes.

You're two injuries away from having Mike Hutchinson. Very nice guy. I covered him with the Marley's, no disrespect, but you're two injuries away from having Hutch in game seven of the first or second round of the playoffs. And, you know, I don't think that the situation that leaves, after making so many moves, making so many big signings, they want to find themselves in. No, and you don't want to be looking at that situation, like, and we're coming out of whatever, game four against Edmonton. And Hutchinson has just had a rough night saying, man, too bad we didn't give up that third round pick just to have a little bit more security. Like, you just do it. You're trying to win a cup.

Jonas, before we let you go, Haley and I love to do a little segment called Multiple Choice Madness. on the athletic hockey show. So I'm going to fire a multiple choice question at you before we let you go. Jonas, what member of the Toronto Maple Leafs do you think will feel the most intense heat slash pressure slash scrutiny as the Stanley Cup playoffs start? Is it A, general manager Caldubus, B, head coach Sheldon Keefe, C, team captain John Tveris, or D, whoever's the goalie, either Jack Campbell or Freddie Anderson? I think it's the goalie.

Because either way, Jack Campbell has never started or appeared in an NHL playoff game. So if he's the guy, that's pressure. Frederick Anderson has had this rough year. He's really had his struggles in the playoffs, obviously. So if he's the guy, that's a lot of pressure. It's going to be the goalie. Obviously, there's pressure on Kyle Dubus for the team to perform. They need to get out of the first round.

They need to have some tangible progress. But, man, the goalies, until they can kind of show it in the play. postseason, they're going to be feeling the most heat for sure. Well, listen, Jonas, we appreciate you taking a few minutes to kind of walk us through Toronto's perspective here on trade deadline day. Appreciate the time. Enjoy that game tonight as Jack Campbell tries to go for 12 and 0 and we'll talk to again real soon.

Thanks, guys. I love the show. Yeah, there you go. Jonas Siegel, one of the best. And you know, Haley, that deal could not have happened if the San Jose Sharks did not get involved in the Nick Felino trade. When we come back on the other side, our man who covers the sharks, Kevin Curse, will join us, talk about how things are going in San Jose.

All right, Haley, as we close in on 3 o'clock Eastern time, about 35 minutes to go until the deadline, I guess technically we have to say good morning to our next guest because it hasn't quite hit 12 noon Pacific time. Kevin Kerr does a fantastic job covering the San Jose Sharks. And you know, Kevin, I wish we were just bringing you on to talk about your mascot story from a couple weeks ago. Oh, yeah. Sharky gets stuck in the rafters, man.

That was great. Yeah, thanks. That was a fun one. Yeah, that's way before I got here, but it's one of those things that it seems to resonate with the fan base and with people that were involved for whatever reason, I guess just because it was so weird. Well, hey, listen, it was a little bit weird to see the San Jose Sharks

get involved in the trade deadline stuff, but not really for a player, but more to take on some salary, kind of be a third party in that deal with Nick Folino, going from Columbus to Toronto. What was your sense of just that move in particular and San Jose taking on some salary to get a, to get a pick. Yeah, it's not all that surprising. They've sort of been telegraphing this, what they were going to try and do since really the beginning of the month. Joe Will,

the assistant general manager, said so. And then when we spoke to Doug Wilson, after the Devin Dubnick trade, he suggested it again. So, you know, they've left themselves this, they left themselves this cap space. And it was by design, you know, they could have maybe been a little bit more aggressive and free agency in the off season. But just based on where the team is right now in this, you know, transitional reset season, whatever you want to call it, that cap space was more valuable to gain assets. And then, you know, we'll see what they can do with some of these assets in the draft. And, you know, you go back to last draft, they had nine picks, I believe it was nine, but whatever it was, they used them all on forwards. And they didn't

trade any out. They still have the second round pick this year, still belongs to Ottawa Senators as the final piece of the year at Carlson trade. So, you know, know, they're in a mode right now where they're just trying to, I think, restock the system and integrate some young players into the NHL lineup while also, again, building up, collecting more assets and trying to build the system up. And Kevin, you mentioned, you know, that this has been a bit of a transitional season for the San Ozzy Sharks. What does this move and the Dubnick trade, you know, trading away their starter?

What does this signal to you about the direction of the San Jose Sharks? Yeah, it's a good question because Dubnick was really the only other NHL ready goalie they had in the system. And on the ice, he wasn't really lighting it up, I guess. You know, look at his numbers. They weren't exactly outstanding. But he was a guy they brought in. And they've talked so much about the culture in this dressing room. And it was off last season with the departure of Joe Pavelski. They lost so many games early, coaching change. No one was on the right page. So I think first and foremost, they wanted to reestablish the culture here. And they have taken some strides in that direction. And Dubnick was a.

guy that I think came in and helped. He's a good guy. He's well-liked by his teammates. They brought in some other guys like that, Matt Nietto, who had been here before. And so they have Dubnick. And I think part of the reason he was attractive to the sharks was because he only had one, he was only one-year deal. He's a pending UFA. I'm sure they had this in mind that they could maybe flip him for a draft pick or two at the trade deadline. And that's exactly what happened. So now they'll turn to some younger goalies. Yosef Coronar is one. Alexi Melanchuk is another.

Not everyday names that people know, but two young goalies in the system. And we're told they're both going to get a shot here down the stretch. So clearly making the playoffs is not at the top of the list for this team this season. No one's going to say that, but let's be honest. They're going to let these young goalies get in and play. And we'll see what they got. You know, Kevin, so much of San Jose's issues seem to be rooted in. having some long-term contracts.

They're almost handcuffed, right? They've got a whole bunch of guys on long-term deals. It's really going to be really difficult to get rid of any of that payroll here at the deadline. Haley and I were talking about this earlier that the expansion draft coming up is kind of the unseen hand here. Do you think that there's almost a hope in San Jose that they will end up with the expansion draft? Would they potentially expose one of these big-ticket guys, hope that Seattle bites, and that's a potential route that they could go for getting rid of a contract rather than trying to do something on deadline day?

Yeah, I've wondered that too. And Brent Burns, I think, would be at the top of the list as maybe that potential guy, just because he is older. He's 36 years old. He's three years left after this one at 8 million year. But he's still an effective player. And really, that's a credit to Burns, I think, that he might be attractive, I think, to some other teams.

Now, I think you could also say, well, if they're going to expose him, why would be? when they try to trade him and get something back for him. He has a three-team limited, no trade clause. I tried getting out of him the other day if he wants to retire a shark, and I did not have any luck trying to get that out of him. So no luck there, but I think that's possible because you look at all these expensive contracts and you look at the current core.

My opinion is they need to make some sort of changes to this core just because they are getting older. I mean, even Logan Gature is in his 30s now. Eric Carlson's 30. And while those guys could still be good, I do think at some point you have to shake it up a little bit. So we'll see. You know, Evander Cain's another guy that's having effective season. Could he be someone that maybe would be attractive to Seattle?

Because, you know, again, Evander Cain is in the prime of his career. Are the sharks going to compete to be a Stanley Cup contender while he's still in the prime of his career? I would argue probably not. I think they're still a couple years away from. from that conversation again. So I do think that's fair to wonder, yeah. And Kevin, you know, we're not too far away from the deadline right now. Is there anything else that we could potentially see the sharks do before the deadline

passes? Yeah, I don't know. It was suggested to me earlier this morning that the sharks might try to add some depth at a low cost. That hasn't happened yet. I know Curtis Gabriel is a guy that they've gotten some calls on, but, you know, what are you going to get back for him? Not much.

So might there be another minor move or two maybe, but in terms of a major sort of shakeup, like most everyone else, I don't see that happening here. Yeah, and as we wrap up with you, Kevin, just wondering, what's the sentiment of the fan base in San Jose? You kind of alluded to this, San Jose's three points out of a playoff spot, got a couple games in hand on Arizona.

Like, it's not out of the realm of possibility they make the playoffs. Are the fans in San Jose desperately hoping for a playoff berth? Are they thinking, you know what, it's time for a rebuild here, we'd rather miss the playoffs. What's the mindset of the typical San Jose Sharks fan right now? Yeah, it really is, I think, kind of 50-50 right now. You know, obviously making the playoffs would be an accomplishment just because I think this team coming off of a last place finish last season. Making the playoffs and even being in the conversation, I do think is a credit to Bob Booneer and the job he's done. They have reset that culture.

They have gotten better performances as a season. have moved along from Evander Cain, Eric Carlson, Martin Jones, all three of whom got off to terrible starts. They've been trending in the right direction. But at the same time, I do think they realize that this team isn't going to compete for a Stanley Cup. If they make the first round, they're probably just going to get smoked by Colorado or Vegas. So it's probably more beneficial if they miss the playoffs and take their chances in the lottery and come away with maybe a top 10 pick if they get lucky.

Well, we appreciate, we feel lucky that we had you with us here. Kevin, thanks so much for taking a few minutes with us and enjoy the rest of your trade deadline day. Okay, thanks guys. Take care. All right. Kevin Kerr is in San Jose. And, you know, anytime I think of, when I say San Jose Sharks trade, the only thing that comes to mind for me, Haley, Joe Thornton. One of the most lopsided trades of all time. No?

Why? When I say seven-way-shodian, I thought you were going to say something about Eric Carlson. No. Sends guy, Carlson. I just thought that was trying to segue naturally to our Boston Bruins beat reporter, Fluto Shenzawa, who covers the Bruins, and I was trying to tie in San Jose in Boston. But why don't we do that? We'll bring in Fluto right now from Boston, where Taylor Hall, we believe, is on route to your city. Fluto, first of all, thanks so much for doing this. How's your trade deadline day? shaking out so far today in that well yeah uh taylor is one of three players currently inbound somewhere on the road because we've got uh him and colonel sezart driving somewhere on the mass pike or on the throughway to boston and then at the same time we've got uh up in up in your area in myke riley

driving somewhere south from ottawa so the bruits have help inbound which they desperately need after they take an 8-1 kicking against Washington last night with pretty much a JV lineup. So, yes, reinforcements very much necessary here in Boston. Yeah, and about a seven-hour drive if there's no issues for Mike Riley to get from Ottawa to Boston. So let's talk about the Taylor Hall deal for a second here, Fluto, because I think a lot of people in the hockey world

were looking at this and saying, wow, the Boston Bruins got a former Hart Trophy winner without giving up a first-round pick. What's the feeling like in Boston and the fan base as they land Taylor Hall and only give up a second round pick. And maybe you can tell us a little bit about Anders Bjork as well and where he fit in Big Picture in Boston. He did not fit in.

Five healthy scratches for Anders going into the trade deadline. Has tons of speed, pretty good shot, but just a poor fit. They tried him on the fourth line, just not heavy enough, not defensively responsible enough. and then just skill in terms of making plays when he got his top nine chances, which were pretty numerous over his years here. And then you look at the other piece that they had to give up to get Taylor, second round pick, okay, that's going to be a pretty good NHL player, you would think.

So what does that mean for the return? Well, let's look at the numbers. One five-on-five goal for Taylor Hall, which shows, okay, this is not the Taylor Hall from the 2017-2018 year when he was an MVP, the first overall pick in 2010, which the Bruins fans are very familiar with having had the second pick after Taylor and Tyler Sagan. So, okay, ultimately, they have to answer the question, who is Taylor Hall? And I don't think he's the Taylor Hall that a lot of people know. But just given the price that they had to pay, which is not much, it's worth it to take a kick

at the care for these last six years. 16, 17 games, and considering the needs here in Boston, which are they can't score. So they need that. Plus Mike Raleigh to get guys like Taylor and like Jake DeBrosk and Patrice Berger on the puck, well, then you start giving them a chance to get into the conversation with the Washington, with the Islanders, with Pittsburgh, because right now it's just too much JV American League in this lineup to really content with those top guys. And I mean, you know, Like you said, it's worth taking a kick at the can, especially if what you're giving up, as again, you mentioned, is someone who just didn't work in Boston. So, you know, there's still the question of who is Taylor Hall or what version of Taylor Hall are the Boston Bruins getting.

But, you know, they're giving up someone who was scratched five times and didn't necessarily have a natural fit in the Bruins lineup. You know, I know that Taylor Hall is still en route to Boston, and it's probably way too early to ask you this question. but where do you see him fitting lineup-wise with the Boston Bruins? Second line left wing, most likely, Haley. This is a very good opportunity for Taylor, right? Just because he's always been the player that's had to be the guy, whether in New Jersey, obviously Edmonton, Arizona, even in Buffalo, they thought, okay, here's the perfect playmate for Jack Eichael on the first line. Well, he doesn't need to be that guy.

They've got the best 200-foot left wing in the game in Brad Marshall. on the first line. And really, maybe he even goes in on the third line, just because Nick Richie has been a pretty good number two left wing for these guys. Maybe even Taylor goes on the right side on the second line. The big thing is now Bruce Cassidy has options. It's not just, okay, let's try this. Let's try that. Well, now you can try Jake DeBrusk as your number two right wing. Now you can try Craig Smith as your number two right wing. Maybe even David Posnerach as your second line, right wing, as long as you know that you have three pretty decent left wings, and obviously an elite one on the first son with Brad, but then you follow that up with Taylor

Hall, Nick Ritchie, then you start making teams think, okay, we can't just load up on Bergeron, Pasternut, Martian, and then just let the other lines go. They've got some options here. And then you throw in Lazaro, and he said he's healthy. He's missed some time, but He'll be an okay plug-and-play kind of bottom six player, you would think. And then they just need guys to get healthy. Let's look at the blue line last night. No Charlie McAvoy. No Matt Grizzly.

No Brandon Carlo. No Kevin Miller. And then you have a kid goalie, Dan Vladard, just taking the L in terms of eight goals against Washington of all teams and not even Novetschkin scoring. So, yeah, to get some. adult, grown-up players in here very much needed for the Bruins. Well, speaking on that theme of injuries, let's talk a little bit about the goal-tending situation. Tuka Rask has been out for a while, Fluto.

Is there any way that the Bruins might need to in the next 20 minutes or so address some goaltending up? Do the Boston Bruins need some insurance in the blue paint for the stretch drive? That would be a nice luxury, I think, Ian. But yeah, just because, let's face it, Tuka's been out for pretty much a month with what we think is a back injury. So a 34-year-old goalie with a bad back, well, that's iffy. Now, he's been skating. There is a chance that he could play tomorrow against Buffalo. If not, maybe sometime later this week. Yarra Halak is on the COVID list. You would think that

he gets back at some point. They've been very pleased with the kid goalie Jeremy Swayman, who's come in and played three very good games. But we've all seen Carter Hart, Matt Murray, It's very risky to be asking these young guys to come in, especially in this kind of situation and play. So I don't think they want to mess around with that at all in terms of they have the Tuka and Yarro are out of contract after this year. So maybe Tuka comes back next year on a short-term deal. Maybe the Bruins go after a stopgap goalie. But Jeremy Swayman is very much their goalie of the future. So they don't want to mess around with him.

So yes, maybe they do go out for some depth if the price is right, which is minimal in terms of a pick, a low round pick or a prospect or just for some kind of insurance. You can never have enough, just given the importance of the position, what we've seen Tuka go through in terms of injury. We all remember what happened last year in Toronto, and they put HALOC in a very tough spot. So I don't know. We'll see. I wouldn't be surprised, but I think defense, a depth defenseman will be a little bit higher on their list in terms of priorities. I guess my final question for you, Fluto, and you did touch on this a little bit, but do these moves suggest to you that this is a Boston Bruins team who wants to continue to keep their window of contention open? This is a team that does not want to just sit on the

outside looking in? No question, Haley. because the window is closing every day. Patrice Berger on 35, David Creachie, 34 and unrestricted after this year. Same thing with Tuka. Brian Marchand, 32. So you'll only get so many opportunities with this group.

And we've seen at the start of the year, this was as hard a team to score against as any team in the league. Now they had their issues scoring, and that's been their issue for a little while here, even dating back to last year. But the Bruins think that if they can shore up the defense with Riley and you're going to get McAvoy and Grizzlick back at some point, perhaps Carlo in a few weeks, that as long as they can retrieve pucks and get it going the other way and get pucks through from the point, which they've really struggled to do this year, that that goes a very long way in initiating the five-on-five offense. And if, say, for example, Riley goes back for puck and gets it in transition up to Taylor Hall with speed, then that makes it so much easier for these guys to score.

And then you get back to the goalie once Tuka's right and he's healthy, and he's shown he can carry it in the playoffs. So, yes, this is very much a team that with these pieces in place, they can contend. But this year it's just been so goofy with injuries and illness and compressed schedule that the Bruins are dealing with, It's going to be a dog fight to the end just to get in. But if they do get in, and if they're relatively healthy and some of these pieces are at threshold level in terms of where Taylor Hall should be at,

then yes, they can contend with Washington and the islanders. And before we let you go, we look at that East Division, Fluto. It looks like if Boston is going to make it, it looks like they're going to be the four-seat in that division. Is there an opponent amongst Washington, the Islanders and the Pittsburgh Penguin, that you think matches up better for Boston,

meaning what team should Boston hope wins the division if they're the four seed? Well, just from what we've seen this year in terms of matchups, they do not match up well against the islanders for whatever reason. Maybe it's the, I think it's the forecheck, the way that the island is, and this was really when the Bruins were struggling on the back,

and they would just send it and get it below the goal line for the Bruins, and they really, really struggled there. And the goaltending Baralamov has been great. the defense is so hard to play against. So Islanders tough matchup. Washington has been kind of, they've been able to hang, regardless of the 8-1 thrashing. But I think Pittsburgh is probably the best matchup for the Bruins just because there's there's just a little bit more squishiness, if you will, in terms of Pittsburgh's lineup.

And who knows what kind of conditioning and health that Malcon is going to be in. So I think they can hang with Pittsburgh. not as physical as the Islanders, not as physical as the caps, perhaps more speed for Pittsburgh than those two teams. But I think just overall, it's a better batch up. Not that I would think that the Bruins are going to walk over the penguins,

but when you're picking against those three opponents, I think they would prefer to play Pittsburgh versus the other two. All right. Well, Fluto, appreciate your time and your insight. Enjoy the, we got about 15 minutes ago to the deadline. We'll look forward to your coverage in the athletic. Thanks for doing this, and we'll talk to again real soon. Pleasure, guys.

Have a good day. All right, you as well. And I think all hockey fans want to seize the Dana Chara up against the Boston Bruins in the playoffs. Washington, Boston, make it happen. Hey, speaking of making things happen, Haley, looks like we talked about this earlier in the show, that Sam Bennett might be on the move and multiple reports are now coming out, suggesting that it's a done deal. So what do we know about Sam Bennett and where could he be headed, Haley?

Yeah, well, it looks like from, you know, report, I said reporter Chris, Chris Johnston. He has a name. He is not his Twitter handle. He's called him. That's what I call him. No, Chris Johnston and Ryan Leslie as well. He's the local reporter here for Sportsnet. I think Ryan actually got the edge on him by a minute or so. So we'll give Ryan Leslie is due to Ryan Leslie, Chris Johnson and Elliot Friedman have all tweeted that it sounds like Sam Bennett. is a deal in the works to send Sam Bennett to the Florida Panthers. There's not many details around what the return will be, what this trade is going to look like. But it does seem like Sam Bennett is going to be on the move. As we mentioned off the top of the show, this is a player who requested a trade. He's been wanting a change of scenery. And I don't believe that this is the first time that this has been requested by Sam Bennett. I think, you know, in previous years there had been, you know,

tensions between the two sides, you know, Bennett's camp and the Calgary Flames on his role. You know, we're just getting right now from Pierre LeBron, Sam Bennett, being traded to Florida for a second round pick plus a prospect. That is more than I probably would have thought that the flames would have gotten for Sam Bennett, looking at what the market has been from different teams. Some people might call that an overpay. That's a great return for Bradtree living in the Calgary Flames. there was a lot of discourse around people saying that Brad Tree Living was valuing Sam Bennett too high.

Nobody could agree on a price and Tree kept it close to the chest. He held on to Sam Bennett. And that's a really good return for a guy who wanted a bigger role, who had requested a trade. He was the highest draft pick the flames have ever had. And he just never ended up, you know, producing to the pedigree of a fourth overall pick. he's getting his, his, you know, fresh start. Potentially, that could be something that kickstarts. The playoff Sam Bennett to happen in the regular season.

Florida is a very good team. They're right in it. So I'm really, I'm interested to see how this plays out for Sam Bennett and the Florida Panthers, but that's a great. And it sounds like Emil Heinenman is the prospect coming in. So I think that's a great return for the Calgary Flames. Yeah. And so we're starting to see some of these close to 3 p.m.

Eastern time deal start to trickle through. The Montreal Canadians have acquired left-hand shooting defenseman Eric Gustafson from the Philadelphia Flyers, according to multiple reports as well. So Eric Gustafson, defenseman left shot D goes from Philly to Montreal as the flyers obviously are starting to move some pieces. Hey, Haley, why don't we stay in that state of Pennsylvania and bring in Josh Yoey covers the Pittsburgh Penguins does a fantastic job doing it. And Josh, first of all, thanks for taking the time to join us here on this live edition

the Athletic Hockey Show podcast. I think, now, I don't know, Haley, do we have an audio issue with Josh, or is that just me? I don't know. No, I think so. I guess, Ian, we can, you know what, I will drive the bus for a second here. Do you expect in the next 12 minutes, the Ottawa senators, to do anything else? I know Ryan DeZingle was somebody who could be on the move. I mean, he seems to only score with the Ottawa senators, but is there much interest in a guy like

Ryan DeZingle or any of their other prospects? Yeah, it's, you know what, to be honest with you, when I found, it was Elliot Friedman, whose tweet I saw first, and he said Eric Gustafson has been traded. My initial thought was, I wonder if that's a typo from Elliot. Did he mean? Good Branson. That's what I thought, but it's not. You know, Good Branson's a guy, and Pierre LeBron is kind of hinted at this too. Eric Goodbranson is the type of guy, and I know he's a polarizing person in the analytics community and whatever.

But when you get to playoff time, like, that's the type of guy that would be able to get away with a few cross checks and different, you know, different things. And so anyway, that would be one player I would look at. Ryan DeZingle, absolutely. There's been some low level chatter around Christiani, but nothing, you know, I don't think there's going to be anything more significant. Let's try it one more time. Back to Pittsburgh we go. Let's see if we've got them good to go. Better connection this time. Josh Yoey, do we have you? No. No, all right. He tried two times with Joshua, but that's the beauty of doing live shows. I love it. I actually missed this element of doing television and radio, so I like that.

It's a thrill. But the peg was picked up Jeff Carter, which I thought was an interesting move because, you know, Carter can play a little bit of right wing, actually a little bit of left wing. He can play center. That's a, to me, an interesting deal. In fact, this is the question I wanted to ask to Josh Yoey. And this one, it came into us via Facebook from one of our viewers here. you're asking, what would you say was the idea behind Jeff Carter to Pittsburgh?

I'm a Kings fan. My brother-in-law is a penguins fan. Neither of us mind the deal, but neither of us really get it either. Well, I know that in kind of reading some of the stuff that Josh has been putting out in Pittsburgh and some of the stuff, the penguins have been looking for some depth. And a lot of this, too, is I think predicated on Evgeny Malkin. Is he going to be healthy? Is he going to come back? They need some help. And the penguins have, I think they're all almost like Boston. I look at Boston and Pittsburgh in the same way, Haley. They got one more kick at the can, so to speak,

with this group of guys. And they figure, you know what, Jeff Carter, two times Stanley Cup winner, been to the cup final three times, bring them in here. You know, you still got some tread left on the tire. We don't have to give up a first round pick, anything crazy like that.

I think that's the thought process behind the deal. And we'll see. I mean, I think obviously Ron Hextall is a big part of this too. You got to remember Ron Hextall would have had some time with Jeff Carter back in the day. And the Philadelphia connection is probably, you know, important to note there. But I don't mind the move for Pittsburgh, but I just, I don't know that it's going to be a, you know, a move that all of a sudden I'm looking at the penguins and saying, you know what? That's a, that's a Stanley Cup contender. I kind of feel like they are who they are right now.

Yeah, I think that's probably a fair assessment. And I wish that we had Josh on here or even someone like Lisa Dillman who could speak to, you know, what Jeff Carter brings to the table for the Pittsburgh Penguins. But, you know, I know I saw a lot online about the move. And I think a lot of people on the Kings, you know, we go back to our earlier discussion about the, you know, should there be games on these days? And, you know, forgive me, I don't know if the Kings are playing today. But I do know that this has been a difficult 24 hours for the L.A.

Kings organization. because, you know, you resign I follow and people are happy that he's going to be there. But then you're losing a guy in Jeff Carter. And I think there's probably a lot of people on the team who are, you know, feeling the sting of that. And I guess that probably speaks to what he brings to the table in that dressing room. I don't think the penguins are starving for leadership by any means with a guy like Sydney Crosby wearing the sea with the penguins. But, you know, I think it's going to be interesting to see what Jeff Carter brings to the table. you know, they're bringing in another veteran presence.

Again, we don't, you know, it depends on Gany Malcon. But, you know, I think this is going to be one where we have to wait and see, you know, what is the plan for Jeff Carter? And those are the kind of questions that I have, you know, what's the plan? What's his fit? What's his role going to be? And ultimately, how is this going to turn out for the Pittsburgh Penguins? And a lot of that is something that, you know, we're either getting from our beat riders

or we're getting from just watching how this plays out. Well, Haley, I know that you've got to run. because in a couple of minutes, Calgary Flame General Manager, Brad Trill Living, is going to be speaking to the media. 1 o'clock mountain time. 3 o'clock Eastern time. So why don't we do this? It's going to be a crossover episode of the athletic hockey show. You like crossover shows, Haley?

Here we go. Let's bring them in from the waiting room. Scott Burnside is the host of the Wednesday edition of the athletic hockey show. Two-man advantage edition of it. Scott Burnside is ready to hop in here. It's trade deadline day, so why not make the trade? It was one-for-one. Haley Salveon for Scott Burnside.

side. I think Haley got ripped off. There's got to be more of that deal than if it's just one for one. I can get my camera here. There we go. We got your ear there for a second. We can hear you though, which is great. No, I think it's good, it's good value. I think Ian is getting a very strong partner for the last 30 minutes. And I get to go talk about the Sam Bennett deal and talk to General Manager Broad Tree Living. So you guys can debate about who wins. But Ian, it's been fun. Scott, have fun.

I'm going to go add my other hat on. I'm going to do some graphs and some charts because I'm the new Dom today. I'm the chart girl and the Flames writer. So thanks a lot, Ian, and have a lot of fun with the rest of the show, guys. All right. Looking forward to your coverage of that Sam Bennett trade.

Always great to work with you. There goes Haley Salvean. So Scott Burnside, as we close in on three Eastern Time, What are you, I want to just kind of big picture, what have been your impressions of trade deadline day? And even if you want to draw the line back the last 48 hours or so, like how have you felt about this period leading into the deadline? Yeah. And thanks for having me aboard. And I just want you to know I'm going to give 100% now that I'm here. I know I've lost something, my lateral movement and I don't backtrack like I used to. But I am going to give 100%. But no, I thought your conversation was interesting about Jeff Carter.

and not to speak for Josh Joey, but I was talking to an NHL executive this afternoon. We were talking about Jeff Carter. And there's no question in my mind that Jeff Carter's connection to Ron Haxall, new GM in Pittsburgh had a lot to do with this deal. Because it was Lisa Domain and I had talked earlier at the beginning of the trade period. You know, who might go, right? I mean, what were the Kings going to do?

You know, Dustin Brown have been playing so well. Was there a place for Jonathan Quick, even though he did. another two years, I think, left on his deal. Alex Iiafalo, who signed an extension with the Kings today. But Jeff Carter's name never really came up. And in talking to Lisa, my sense was that he made it clear to the Kings, not really, didn't want to go anywhere. He's been in L.A. a long time.

And so my guess is that the strong connection with Ron Hextall, you know, having played with Sidney Crosby internationally, there had to have been something there that made sense for that deal to go through. And I talked to this NHL executive. He said, I love this ad because I know he's a natural center, but he has played quite a bit on the wing. That's sort of been his thing the last couple of years. And this executive said very few guys shoot the puck still like Jeff Carter. And again, I think in terms of depth, Rob Rossi and I were chatting earlier today,

He's sort of likened this to the 09 deadline ad of Bill Guerin. Now, the penguin locker room is in a much different place than they were in 09. But I think the idea that Jeff Carter is just going to come in two-time cup winner, as you mentioned, I think that's a nice ad for a penguin team that is right in the hunt, right? I mean, you know, I know you mentioned Boston. Boston's in a different space, you know, in terms of the standings. This penguin team has surprised a lot of people, I think. And they are really good.

I'm still, I don't know about the goaltending. Is it a four-round deep goal-tending duo there? I don't know that. But that penguin team is better than people think. And they got a lot of interesting moving parts. And I like the Jeff Carter out there. And you know what? I think it's since March the 5th through 6th, Scott.

Sidney Crosby's tied for the league lead in points. And it's one of the most remarkable stories. And at 33 in change, Sidney Crosby is as Dominant. Look, he's probably not going to get a ton of love for the Hart Trophy. That's going to go to McDavid and, you know, a couple of other names are going to get to more consideration. But what Sidney Crosby has done this year, this might be some of his most impressive work because, you know, Malkin's been sidelined.

The team's the goaltending, you know, at the beginning of the year, Casey DeSmith and Tristan Jari were giving them like 870, save percentage. It felt like they were surviving. And Sid has just been dynamite this season, Scott. Yeah, well, and you know what? This team reminds me a little bit. of 2017. You know, they're coming off the cup win in 16 and, you know,

Crystal Tang was hurt and they were like, who repeats? No one repeats. But it was Sydney Crosby, right? Who was, you know, just as he has really since day one, just driving that machinery. And I just, I, you know, even the turmoil with Jim Rutherford abruptly stepping away and Ron Hacksall coming in

and Brian Burke, I loved his comment, was to another Canadian network. And something about, you know, we're not kissing people's butts to have them come play here. And it goes back to what my sense is Jeff Carter would have really wanted to be there, that there wouldn't have been, you know, like if you don't want to go and play with Sid and Malkin, okay, they probably don't want you. And I just, I think this penguin team is going to be interesting.

That whole East Division, the Islanders, Washington, Pittsburgh, I assume Boston hangs on, although, boy, you watched them last night and it's not pretty there. But let's assume Boston hangs on. Whatever the final standings, those playoff matchups are going to be fascinating to watch unfold. And the penguins are right there. And as we close in on three Eastern time, why don't we take a break? And on the other side, we'll be on the other side of three Eastern time.

And we can kind of maybe start to digest some of the deals that have taken place here at the 2021 NHL trade deadline. And as we head back on the other side, as I said, of Three Eastern Time, technically the horn is sounded, but Scott Burnside, you've been around this game long enough to know sometimes well past three Eastern time. We find out about some deals. But have you been at least, I guess, satisfied with the amount of activity? Even if you think the last few days, get names like Nick Folino and David Savard and Jeff Carter and Taylor Hall moving. You know, a couple of weeks ago, there were some people suggesting you're not going to see anything at the deadline because of the flat cap of the pandemic. But I would say that this was a decent trade. deadline vis-a-vis the expectations we may have had going into it. Yeah, no, I think you're right on, Ian. And I was a little bit surprised that so many GMs decided to do middle of the night trades last night.

It was a little bit disconcerting. It should be a moratorium, right? At 10 o'clock Eastern or whatever, got to put the phones away till the next morning. In fact, I think I recall Aaron Portsline getting a text from Yarmou Kekalana, and I can't remember whether it was last year at the trade deadline. And Yarmel was like, I've opened a bottle of red. you can rest easy. See, that's a kind of,

you like that kind of communication with the GM, but no, I think your point's an excellent one. I don't think anyone really had a sense of what was going to happen because of all those factors. I mean, you throw in the Vancouver COVID outbreak situation and their uncertain schedule, all those kinds of things. The Seattle expansion draft looms large for, again, because all these things are interconnected,

but, you know, acquire a player, if he's got term left on his deal, now does it create an additional layer of problem for GM with the expansion draft? So I think that's why you saw a lot of players on expiring deals go. And in the past, you know, a year ago or last, you know, two years ago, GMs might have been more prone to seek out players with term, pay a little bit more for those players. This year, I think it was the opposite because of the expansion draft. and the flat cap.

So, no, I think there's lots of interest. And I think the major players, right, the big, you know, the, the high-end teams, the true Stanley Cup contenders. I was fascinated to watch Joe Sackick, you know, recently, you know, within the last 15 or 20 minutes, adding Carl Soderberg, another player that he knows well, on top of adding Patrick Nemeth, who I thought was absolutely terrific in his time, in Colorado, and I think he fits very nicely there.

I was a bit skeptical of Devin Dubnick as the backup goalie for Philip Grubauer, but I talked to a goalie, former NHL goaltender and analyst today, and he said, you know, really he's been pretty good the last little while and felt that he, with the experience that he had, that Dubnick was going to be a very nice fit in Colorado. So, you know, that's a team that most of us would have liked as a top three or four team in the NHL, they're even closer, I think, to being cupworthy than they were 24 hours ago or 30 hours ago.

You know, as we kind of scroll through the social media here and get past 3 o'clock, our colleague in Minnesota, Mike Russo, has reported the Wild have not done anything. They've stood Pat on deadline day. The Wild War is such a curious team for me, Scott, because I think at the start of the year, I don't think anybody thought, you know, you didn't know what they were going to be, but they've been one of the pleasant surprises. and I wonder, I wonder what the fan base is thinking in a year in which you're definitely making the playoffs. Like, there's no doubt about that.

You're making the playoffs that you didn't do anything at the deadline. I wonder how much heat will be on Bill Garonin Company in Minnesota or will people just be happy that they were kind of status quo. But I think it's interesting a team like Minnesota didn't do anything today. Yeah, no, it is interesting. But I'm not surprised. I think, and I think there are teams who are in this same kind of, you know, sort of where they are in their evolutionary arc. And I think of a team like the New York Rangers.

Now, they aren't where the Wild are, which is, and I agree with you in guaranteed playoff spot in the West. I thought they'd be scrambling for fourth. But I think what you, if I'm Bill Guerin and I look at this team and I see some of the young players who really stepped into the four for the Wild, a lot of their veteran players are transitioning to smaller roles, guys like especially Zach Perise. We know that Miguel Coybu, of course, left and then retired. But, and he does, at some point, he's going to have to deal with Matt Dunba.

And I think everyone expected after Jonas Brodine got the contract extension that at some point, you know, Bill Guerin would try and find a place for Matt Dunba. And he's a kind of defenseman that should yield a pretty good return. But at the deadline, maybe a little bit harder. And my sense of Bill Guerin is, listen, I'll deal. with that before the Expander dot. Right now, this is a team is going to have an unexpected playoff experience. I think it's a huge order for them to beat either Vegas or Colorado in the first round. I mean, let's be honest. But if I'm Del Guerin, I want to see how those kids perform.

I want to see what that room looks like when they have the opportunity to play in a playoff series against one of the top two or three teams in the NHL. And then you can sort of make some decisions after that. Who shows? How do they respond? And I think it's going to be a terrific learning experience for everyone in that lineup. I think it's going to be a great learning experience for Bill Guerin. And of course, Dean Eveson, who in my mind has to be in the top three or four in terms of Jack Adams' consideration. I just think he's done a great job there. So I'm not really surprised that MacDumbo was the obvious guy, I think. But I don't think you want to be making an ad and disrupting your plan for the future,

and especially if it means maybe pushing down one of those young players who's earned the spot, whether it's on a second power play unit or in the top nine position. So I'm not surprised, and I'm fascinated to see how the wild finish out the stretch run and how they fare in the first round of the playoffs. Well, we've got to some more deals coming in.

And Pierre LeBron, our colleague and your co-host on the Wednesday edition of the Athletic Hockey Show, Two Man Advantage podcast. The Ottawa Senators have made a deal. Scott, Eric Good Branson was an interesting name on his way to the Music City. So Eric Good Branson to Nashville in exchange for a seventh round pick in 2023. We've gotten to the point where we're now trading picks in 2023. And I think one of the interesting elements of all of this, Scott, is general managers being

so kind of unsure about the 2021 draft. I think a lot of them would rather punt down the road and say, you know what, I'd rather have a year where our scouts are in the building and these kids are playing full seasons. Give me a draft pick in 2022 or 2023 rather than 2021, right? Yeah, no question. I think there's a level of certainty or the expectation of more certainty when you look down that road. I heard you and Haley talking a little bit about Eric Goodbranson. And to me, he's an interesting guy, obviously a physically imposing player. and, you know, he's bounced around.

I thought, you know, for me, I thought the brief period of time he spent in Pittsburgh and the Penguins have a real history of reclamation projects on the back end, Jeff Schultz is one of them. I think they're doing it right now with Mike Matheson. But I thought Eric Good Brinson was really good there in the brief time he was there. And I'd like this ad because I think Nationals the number four team in the Central. and they certainly did pivot from being one of the top potential sellers at the trade deadline a month ago to, you know, here they are at the very end bolstering a blue line. Their injury list is unbelievable.

But Ryan Ellis just now back in the lineup, I like this idea because there's going to be some physicality. Let's assume they're going to play either Carolina or Tampa in the first round. That would be my guess with all due respect to Florida. and to me if you're going if you're in Nashville the way to affect an upset over those two very talented teams is to is to play a heavy game against them and um i think goodbrinson's a nice fit there and i think john hines is going to like that yeah you know what i'm sensing a theme here of defensemen getting traded after 3 p.m these are starting to trickle in uh ben hutton is now on the move and ben hutton also like erika branson played in van

Vancouver, played in Anaheim, just like Good Branson, and he's on the move. Ben Hutton, according to our man, Pierre Lebrun, going to Toronto for what Pierre Lebrun is saying is a mid-round draft pick. So the Toronto Maple Leafs only have three picks in the upcoming draft. Anyway, I think they were saying, you know what, we're going all in, if you're Calais, but there's another move. I don't mind the Toronto Maple Leafs kind of going all in. This is the year to do it, right?

Scott, like you know the history of this team. ever won a playoff round in 17 years. You know that this is their best chance to get to the final four. If you're Kyle Dubus, you're not thinking about the draft in June or July or in next year. You're thinking about the next 12 weeks. And Ben Hutton and David Riddick and Nick Folino, these are all moves to try and bolster a team that's been pretty good lately and put them over the hump. Yeah, no, I've got no problem with the all-in mentality.

And, you know, I mean, the problem is, if you're going to, to be all in. You just got to be prepared to take a kick in the shins if you, you know, like, let's say they play Montreal, and I think that's a likely first round scenario. I love the HAB's depth. I like what Mark Bergervan has done during this trade deadline period. I know the team's not playing very well right now. I think come playoff time, though, that depth is going to be fascinating to see how it matches up against a leaf team that is much deeper now than they were, you know, at the start of the weekend. And I like a lot of what, uh, Al-Dubis is done.

Sheldon Keefe has lots of options now, and especially if Alex Gell-Cheniac continues to play, as well as he's shown in a very sort of brief opportunity playing with the big club. So, yeah, no, I've got no problem with it. I mean, the issue is if you're won and done, you've spent a lot, you've sent a lot of assets out and have nothing to show for it. And, you know, that's what you hope a guy like Nick Folino. That's why you hope that Wayne Simmons and Joe Thornton and Jason Spetsa, that when when that bump in the road hits in that first round,

because let's say it happened, you know, you're down 2 1 in a series or down 3-2, that those are the guys that get you back in control of a series. And if it doesn't happen, then you have to, you know, then you have to suffer the consequences of public opinion or whatever happens.

But I like that. And there have been a couple, you know, Lou La Marello's, same thing with the New York Islanders, pushing the chips in, again Julian Breezebaugh on Tampa, second year in a row, making bold moves and saying, I'm paying a lot, but I believe that these pieces are critical to, well, in this case now,

potentially winning a second straight Stanley Cup. You know, I think it's interesting. The Dallas Stars are an interesting team, too. Went to the Stanley Cup final last year, Scott. Our colleague, Sean Shapiro, has just tweeted out that Jim Nill is going to speak to the media around just before 3.30 Eastern time, and it's his indication that by doing that, Dallas Stars probably haven't done anything of significance.

What a weird spot for the Stars, right? I mean, they've got games at hand on Nashville. Theoretically, they're in the playoff race, but they're kind of there, but they're not. What do you make of Jim Nill, apparently standing Pat at the deadline here? Yeah, interesting day, though, for the Stars in that they collect Sammy Vattenen off waivers from the New Jersey Devils. and I think a lot of people felt, well, that means now that the stars may be looking to move Jamie Alexiak, scored a highlight real goal last night.

And I know I watch the game and people were like, oh, this could be his last goal as a Dallas star. But I think Jim No would like to keep Jamie Alexiak. And, you know, stars are in such a tough spot. You mentioned not just with the schedule and they have games in hand. I just don't see how they, I mean, yes, they are still in the hunt. I think, though, that the hole that they've been put in, do in large part to their early outbreak and the compressed schedule, I believe Andres Cicero was injured, and so that might have led to the Sammy Vatin and ad. But you keep Jamie Olexiak in the full.

I'm more curious to see how Jim Neal handles this team moving forward. You've got Tyler Sagan, who has yet to play this season. Now he's back skating, but hasn't played this season. Jamie Ben, two of them combining for north of $19 million against the cap. John Klingberg has one more year left on his deal. And next year at this time, you have to pay John Klingberg and Miro Hayskin. You just, there's so much, there's so little wiggle room. And those, the Segan and Ben contracts are just, they make life very difficult for Jim Nell.

So it'll be interesting to see what they do moving forward. I think it's an uphill battle for them to make. the playoffs. But they're one of those teams that if somehow, if they're able to reel in Nashville, what about a Stanley Cup final rematch in the first round against Tampa? It could easily happen. It would be fascinating to see if they could get healthy and they can sneak into the playoffs. Yeah, definitely changes the dynamics. I just, I think it's too big an uphill, uphill road, I think. Yeah, you know what? And the team that is in between Nashville and Dallas is, is Chicago Blackhawks.

Mark Lazarus is going to join us here in a second just to talk about Chicago here at Deadline Day. They're kind of in that awkward spot. I also want to get your take here, Scott, if possible, on the St. Louis Blues, a team that I think a lot of us just went ahead and penciled in. Oh, they're going to be a playoff team, no problems there.

But they've kind of become unhinged, unglued in the last few weeks, but they don't do anything in and around the trade deadline. Does that surprise you at all? And the guy, you know, I was looking at Hoffman and he had been scratched and you had looked at some other pieces and you thought, you know what, they're going to do something. They didn't do anything today and looks like they're standing pat.

Well, and the interesting part with Doug Armstrong, the GM there, also GM of Team Canada for the Olympics in 2022 in Beijing. And he's not a guy who's been afraid to make moves, even though his team has been in and around the playoff picture. You know, traded Kevin Chattonkirk one year at the deadline. the next year traded Paul Stasney. I believe the year they traded Kevin Chattonkirk. They made the playoffs and beat Minnesota in the first round.

So I was a bit surprised that Doug Armstrong didn't make at least one move. But I think it may be one of those things that you mentioned, Mike Hoffman, you know what, it's not a huge exposure for that team, was one-year deal, started in the season on a PTO. So, but he hasn't been what I think people thought he was going to be. But maybe these moments are what will help to solidify him and the rest of that lineup down the stretch. With all due respect to Arizona, St. Louis should be that team. They should be the fourth team in that West Division. And, you know, as we were talking about Dallas, St. Louis is in the playoffs.

And we assume good health and maybe a little bit more swagger from Jordan Bennington. that's still a team very much built as they were in 2019 when they won their first Stanley Cup. They're a team that you can't take lightly. It'll be interesting to see maybe this is what gives Mike Hoffman a jolt down the stretch. So I still like the Blues as one of those teams that come playoff time, assuming they're there. You can't snooze on them because the way they're built. You know, one of the Blue's biggest historical rivals, not in the same division this year, but usually they are Chicago Blackhawks.

Mark Lazarus is all set to join us here on this trade deadline day. Mark, first of all, good afternoon. Thanks for doing this. Oh, no problem. Happy to. Hey, listen, first question for you is, what's the feeling in Chicago amongst the fans? Are they hoping that Chicago can somehow land that fourth playoff spot?

Or is the feeling like, you know what, Nashville's been too hot lately, that ship has sailed? How are Chicago fans feeling about the stretch drive with their team right now? Honestly, it's pretty mellow in Chicago right now. People feel like they're playing with House Money to a degree because nobody expected anything this year. You know, when Doc broke his wrist and then Jonathan Taze was out and they were going to be bad to begin with, they let Corey Crawford walk. People were expecting like Buffalo levels of disaster here. And it really hasn't been that.

It's been kind of a fun season if you're a Hawks fan. Lots of rookies in the lineup. Lots of guys scoring their first goals. Some excitement for the future. And here they are just, you know, four points behind Nashville for that four spot. I don't think anyone's expecting them to get it. I don't think anyone will be too broken up if they don't. But, you know, they are where they are.

They're in that mushy middle, which, you know, they're not going to get a top five pick probably. But that's okay because they've gotten enough out of this season that the pick is less important than the progress. So I think everyone's kind of mildly content, which is an unusual feeling in Chicago. You know, I notice you've been waving to Stan Bowman pom-poms. No, I'm being slightly facetious. But honestly, I think Stan Bowman had a pretty darn good trade deadline, period. I thought the return for Matthiasian, Mark, as you noted, I was looking at, myself and one what one goal in his last 14 i think and goal that's in his last 10 and you know not to

run down matias yanmark but really you know his his effectiveness was much earlier in this season um but a nice return from Vegas uh in that deal i thought the carl soderberg deal um worked out pretty well i love i like him going back to colorado but i think the stan bowman has done a nice job of sort of tinkering and really sort of capitalizing, as you point out, on a maybe unexpected season from this young team. Yeah, I mean, I think he's had a good deadline. He's had some bad years these last few years, but he's had a nice little run now. And, you know, you go back to last week or whatever it was where he got Vinnie Hinoistroza for basically nothing, comes in. He's got assists on his first two games. He's playing on the second line. He's got some chemistry with Dominic Kubalik early.

He picked up Brett Connolly because they can eat that contract. You know, if Connolly is the player he was in Florida and doesn't produce, well, you know, it's not that big a deal. They got more out of that deal with Henrik Borkstrom and Riley Stillman, but they think that Connolly can be a player. They need debt scoring. They just traded Yanmark. They just traded Yanmark. They just traded Yannberg. They took on a guy with a little bit of term. It's manageable term because they have so much cap space, which is such a commodity now. So they've made the most of what they got. And to get a second and a third for Matthias Yanmark, who, like you said, has fallen off the map. And even when he was scoring, I like the player a lot. The analytics say he's one of the worst players in the league, like statistically

disastrous. Yeah, it's really bad analytics. It was fun. Like every game, me and Scott Powers were like, well, here's the eye test. Looks great. Let's look at the numbers. Oh, my God, it was awful. So I don't know what to make exactly of Matias Yanmark, but I like him as a player. But, you know, you're going to hear this a lot over the next coming days. He got this pretty much the same as Taylor Hall. Yeah. Yeah. How could you be upset with that when, if you're the Black Ox of Mattias Yanmark got you what, you know, Taylor Hall got Buffalo. Yeah, it wasn't, it wasn't Taylor Hall spelled H-A-U-L, that's for sure. I'd love to know, pick your brain a little bit about Adam Goddette ends up in Chicago.

What's the fit like there and why they make that trade with Vancouver? Well, I mean, they didn't really give up much for him. Matthew Highmore is a nice player. He's a good guy in the room. He works his butt off, but he's never really been all that productive. And he's been a scratch for most of this year. So why not flipping into another place? See, Goddette's got a higher ceiling.

I mean, he's a Hobie Baker winner. He had a pretty productive year last year. I know his analytics aren't great either, but the change of scenery. Stan Bowman's a big believer in the change of scenery. It's when, you know, look at Alex Nealander and look at Dylan Strome before him. He likes picking up these guys that have a good pedigree but haven't exactly succeeded elsewhere. And Rick Borkstrom, another case of that. So it's taking a flyer on a guy.

I mean, if you could play that third or fourth line role for the Blackhawks, that's fine. They've got a lot of guys that can play that role. So if he doesn't work out, he's an RFA after the season and you can do what you want with him. It's a pretty low risk middle reward move, I would call it. There's nothing wrong with it. And Highmore had, you know, very little future in the organization. So, you know, why not take a chance? Well, Mark, hey, listen, I really appreciate you drop and buy.

Thanks so much for doing this. And enjoy the right. Well, trade deadline day is essentially coming gone. But we look forward to your coverage on the Hawks and the athletic coming up here in the next few hours. All right, thanks, guys. See you, Las. See ya.

All right, there goes Mark Lazarus. Cover in the Chicago Blackhawks State. Some more trades have just come in here as we wrap up our live show. And it looks like Pierre Lebrun reporting that. that looks like Hayden Flurry might be on the move out of Carolina. We're kind of waiting word there. And that kind of brings, that's an interesting point if Hayden Flurry gets moved.

As we look around the league, how much of a factor do you think, Scott, is the upcoming expansion draft where teams are kind of thinking, you know what, I'm not going to be able to protect this guy. I may as well try and get something for him. And particularly there seems like Colorado, Carolina, Shane Lewis, who people looked at in Minnesota too, I think to some extent, said, you know what?

they're going to have some defensemen that are available. Now might be the time to make a deal. Yeah, and I think you hit the nail on the head there with Hayden Flurry, who, you know, the hurricanes, when they're healthy, are, in my mind, as deep as any team along the blue line. Just they were my preseason Stanley Cup pick. I have no reason to, you know, to make a change there. But they, I think they were already reconciled.

They're going to lose a good player. to Seattle at the expansion draft, but you're right. If you have a player like a Hayden Flurry, a young player, pretty good upside. I don't know what their turn would be, but that's a move that makes sense to me. And it's a Carolina team that, you know, they got their shopping done early with Paquette coming from Ottawa, Stanley Cup winner, a guy with lots of sand and, you know, plays in that third, fourth line role there. So I wasn't surprised that Don Waddell wasn't overly busy and especially with Peter Marazic coming back from injury that might have changed their viewpoint on the goaltending. But I like the Keynes where they're at now.

And I'm frankly not surprised at this kind of deal because it does maybe make things a little bit easier for them come Seattle expansion draft. Yeah. And sure enough, here's the details from Pierre LeBron. It is Hayden Fleury to Anaheim in exchange for a sixth round draft pick and Yanni Hackenpa. So that's the deal there. Anaheim obviously moving out some pieces today. And they're clearly in like that kind of rebuild phase in Anaheim, right? Yeah, no question.

And actually, this Hackenpaws, he's a big fellow if my memory serves correctly. And I know having put together a shadow finish Olympic roster, he was sort of on the edge of my Finnish roster. I'm trying to remember who I spoke to. a Finnish executive who he humored me that he might be on the radar for the Finnish Olympic team. But a big fellow and yeah, no, it's interesting. And a guy again, I think if you're Carolina, you're probably, you know, it's a depth guy, but it's not really necessarily a playoff depth guy, but maybe next year down the road. So good for, good for them to make that kind of move in.

And you're right, Anaheim still, man, still not sure exactly. what, you know, what that team has and how close they might be. It's been a struggle the last few years in Anaheim, and maybe Hayden Flurry helps that team turn a corner. Yeah, it got some great young pieces. We'll read a comment from a viewer here to wrap up. But first, Jordi Ben has also been traded. So we talked about the Winnipeg Jets.

One of the things on Kevin Schelleldaoft's to do list was get a defenseman, get somebody to come in and bolster that blue line. because I think when we look back, the most significant trade of the year is what he did with Columbus in bringing Pierre-Luc Dubois there. So he did a lot of his work already. Sheffleda off did up front.

He needed to add something on the back end. He's done that's a sixth round pick. That goes to the Vancouver Canucks, Jordy Ben to the Winnipeg Jets. Where do you put Winnipeg as we kind of put a wrap on the show as well? Where do you put Winnipeg in terms of the North Division? and do you think they are neck and neck with the Toronto Maple Leafs? Yeah, it's a great question.

And I do like Jordy Ben as an ad there. You know, maybe someone a little bit younger, a little bit more mobile. If you had your druthers, if you were able to, you know, to land someone else. But good thing about Jordy Ben, lots of experience, great guy in the room, what should fit in. Right. I mean, you know, I think, listen, in a perfect world, the Jets are adding a top four defensemen, and that's not Jordie Ben. But you've added some defensive depth with lots of experience. I still think this team, and let's assume good health going into the playoffs, I know, you know, they've been missing, you know, various key parts of various times, like lots of teams.

But let's assume good health, which I think is reasonable to expect. And I think that you're going to see Pierre-Luc Dubois. If you get what we have seen from him, certainly last year in the playoffs against Toronto and Tampa, that forward group in Winnipeg is a beast. And I like them. I still think Toronto wins the North. I think Winnipeg settles into the second spot. So now you look at a Winnipeg, Edmonton first round series.

I think that's a great matchup for Winnipeg, as much as any matchup. up against Leon Dre Saddle and Connor McDavid is a good matchup. But I just think that Winnipeg's depth will put them in a great position in that kind of series. And if we see a Toronto Winnipeg second round series in the north, I don't know. I like, I just love the goal attending. I love Paul Maurice's coaching handle. I think that would be an epic second round series. So I like the Winnipeg Jets a lot. I'd like them from the start of the year. I know a lot of people imagine they might be sixth. I like them as a surefire top four team and they are going to be a handful. And Jordy Ben's going to help that, I think. Yeah. And as we wrap up the show, like I said,

we got a question here. We're going to tackle this one. Comes in from Jerry on Facebook, who wants to know, Scott. What about the teams that should have made a move today but didn't? I don't think the Minnesota Wild fall in that category. So is there any team that kind of stood pat to you or didn't do enough at the deadline that you're like, you know what? I think you needed to do something at the trade deadline. Yeah, I don't know that right off the top of my head, I'm not sure that there is one that fits that sort of bill. You know, I was curious about what Philadelphia was going to do,

and they're not really in it anymore, frankly. And again, I don't think the Rangers, even though the Rangers had still have a shot, that team is, you don't want to be tinkering with that. So I wasn't expecting anything from the Rangers on, on that front. Some of the teams like Montreal had done a fair amount of their work beforehand with Eric Stahl coming in. So I... Apologies there. I don't know if we've... Did we lose Scott Burnside right at the end? Or is it just me now solo? I'm not sure. We got a frozen Scott Burnside, at least I do.

Okay, tell you what, this is, I don't want everyone to look at Scott Burnside and have that be the lasting memory of Scott Burnside is just him with his face frozen there. But I appreciate Scott jumping on here. That pretty much puts a wrap on. this edition of the Athletic Hockey Show, the live edition that we were able to do for you on this trade deadline. As we start to tally up the numbers here, some of these might change, but a total of 16 trades were engineered today

involving 22 players, and it looks like 15 draft picks changed hands. So you know what? For all of the talk that this was going to be a quiet trade deadline day, I think this was pretty good, and especially if you draw the line back a few days and realize that the likes of David Savard and Jeff Carter and Nick Folino and Taylor Hall changed the team,

it was pretty interesting. We really appreciate all of you following along, alive with us here on Facebook, Twitter, YouTube, wherever you were on this trade deadline day. Thanks so much for taking the time to listen to us, or if you're doing this on the podcast. Please subscribe to us on your favorite podcast platform. Leave a rating and reviews, you know.

We would always appreciate that. The frozen Scott Burnside, he's going to be unfrozen. I promise in time for Wednesday when the two-man advantage edition, The Athletic Hockey Show comes away with Pierre LeBron. I'll be back in this chair on Thursday with Down Goes Brown, Sean McIndoo. And a reminder that annual subscriptions to the Athletic, you can get them for $3.99 a month when you visit theathlatic.com slash hockey show.