The Athletic Hockey Show - NHL trade deadline: which prospects could be on the move?

Episode Date: February 16, 2024

On today’s Prospect Series edition of The Athletic Hockey Show, Max, Corey, and FloHockey’s Chris Peters give their thoughts on the standouts from last week’s U18 Five Nations Tournament, prospects that could be on the move with just three weeks to go until the NHL trade deadline, and the guys close things out answering some listener questions in the mailbag. Get a 1-year subscription to The Athletic for $2 a month when you visit http://theathletic.com/hockeyshow Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the Athletic Hockey Show Prospect Series. Hey everybody. Max Goldman here alongside Corey Prondman and Flohockey's Chris Peters for another episode of the Athletic Hockey Show Prospect Series. Really good show on tap today. We just wrapped up the U-18 Five Nations tournament here in Metro Detroit. A lot of good takeaways coming out of that one. And I want to start, Corey, with the championship game, which I know you were really fired up about between USA and Sweet.

Yeah, it was a great game. I mean, those were clearly. I thought the two best teams at the tournament and there's no actual championship game quote unquote at these you know these four nations, five nations tournaments. I believe when we do the

NHL version of the four nations next year there's actually going to be a championship game but usually they just have all the teams just play each other once and they tip they look at the rosters and they guesstimate what the two best teams are and they were right that it was USA and Sweden so USA and Sweden just so happen to be playing the final game with the tournament with the chance to win the tournament.

And it was a great game went down right to the wire. Sweden scores a dramatic last second goal in regulation to win the game after USA was winning, going into the final minutes of the third period. And following that dramatic end where Anton Frundel scores of a design face-off play, there ends up being quite a large fight, I guess, if you would call it, or maybe more mayhem with multiple fights breaking out between the U.S. and Swedish players and what's developing into a new sort of rivalry in international hockey. We usually think of USA and the Russians, USA and the Canadians.

We usually don't think as USA and Sweden as prime international rivals. but with how many good players both countries have been developing lately and how they keep seeming to meet an extremely important international games at various levels over the last few years. It's turned into that. And I think this is now the second time, a Swedish team, which frankly, we would probably agree universally is not the most talent as we've ever seen in both the November and the February tournament,

they were outshot badly by Team USA. but in both games, they end up winning. In November, it was, I think, a five-goal comeback or something like that. And then here it's a late comeback and a dagger right at the end of regulation. I think in November was an overtime win. So I think, you know, looking towards the April tournament, USA's, who is not the same group as them, would be hoping to maybe get some revenge. And you talked about, you know, the age group for Sweden,

but the big reason they won this tournament was not necessarily the 06 birth. year. It was the contributions they were getting from some of their 07s, especially as you alluded to Anton Frundell. Right. And like someone like Jacob is Wozniak was on their top six and played on Frontel's wing as very good. Big winger who skates well has skill. You know, there's some late birth dates like William Mecklin's brother, Victor Ecklin, was quite good. You know, there's, you know, the underage goalie for them was, you know, really good when they needed him to be in the game against the U.S. But it was really the play of Anton Frundel that stood out there.

He was their first line center. This is an 18. This is a lot of team that looks at other players to be the top line center like, say, Lucas Pedersen, like Linus Eriksson in past tournaments. But it was really Frontel in his first games with the U18 team that really stood out. This guy has exceptional skill in hockey sense. He's competitive. He skates well.

He seemed to always be around the puck when he was on the ice, driving the plate, even strength, and making really difficult plays on the power play. Two power play markers ended up being the difference there in the game against the U.S. by Frontel. And this looks like a guy who has every indication he's going to be a very high pick next year. Honestly, in the same tournament with James Higgins, I think he's skated right with Higgins. And if you asked me to evaluate them as prospects just based on that one tournament,

I would say it's real close. Some scouts that might have honestly picked Frontel, to be quite honest, you know what we'll see there's a long way between now and next june and we'll see you know there's other names we can throw out there porter mark code even a fellow sweet like sasha boomo dean who is i think been exceptional player in the ushachl this season and and roger McQueen several others but frondell is definitely one of the premier names for the 2025 draft chris i want to go to you for some of the americans here and we can we can start with haggins if you on or we can go to the guy who i think was maybe the bigger story, his linemate, Cole Iserman. What did you see out of the kind of the two headline names out of Team USA at this tournament?

Yeah, you know, I mean, I think that there were a lot of, you know, what we've seen before, a lot of the same kind of games. I think when, you know, when Cole Iserman plays, you pretty much know what you're going to get out of them at this point. And, you know, it's typically going to be a goal. It's going to be, you know, some, some high end play, some dangerous play, some good scoring chances. You know, did he necessarily impact every game, you know, as, as, consistently as I was hoping he would at this level, I would say no. You know, and I wasn't at the final games.

I was there for the first three days of the tournament, so I got to see each team twice. And, you know, I thought in the games that I saw from him, you know, he was fine. And it was just your typical Kohl-Eisman game. And the fact that he can score with such regularity is obviously a huge benefit to his game. As far as Hagen's goes, you know, I thought it was a little quieter. You know, he definitely is certainly still driving play. and able to make plays. And, you know, I thought that that he was, you know, I feel like we've seen fewer

wow games from him in the last few weeks, you know, where as far as what I've been watching. And so that was it kind of interesting to see. And to Corey's point, you know, if you, if you were just to evaluate Frontell versus Higgins on this, on this particular tournament, you know, I, I would have probably put frontella head, you know, the bigger, stronger, fast, not faster, but bigger and stronger player that was, you know, that impacted more games in more ways, I felt and was around the puck a bit more than Hagen's was. That's not to say that I'm down on James Hagen's at all because I'm not, I've seen enough of a body of work to have such tremendous respect for the player.

But yeah, it was just one of those games. And really, I think in the end, you know, those two guys got overshadowed by the line that played right behind him in the game. I know we're going to get into that, but I'll let you tee that one up, Max. But, I mean, it really was one of those things where there was such focus paid to them that it allowed other things to kind of work out. And I thought that their USA's second line was their best line consistently throughout the tournament. I thought's interesting. You don't seem to be super high on Eisenman's tournament.

I don't think statistically he had a great tournament, you know, in terms of, you know, elite scorer. Do you think of when these junior hockey tournaments? happens, you know, guys put up 10 points in four games, and something like that. He didn't have that kind of week. But I thought, from what I've seen this season, this was some of Eisenman's better hockey, personally.

I think compared to the November tournament, you look at those two weeks, and I thought Eisenman was way better at this tournament. He was making plays. He was throwing his body around. He was competing for pucks. He was, I thought, really creating a lot, even strength. And yes, he was getting his goals and, you know, dangerous on the power play.

But I thought a lot of the bad habits that I've seen at times this year were not as present. And, you know, we'll see how he does going forward in the April tournament, the weight team, which championships will be a big test for him. But I think if you, you know, we've criticized, I haven't a lot on this podcast and in my articles, even though I still have, but are extremely highly rated for a few key reasons that I think has contributed to his mild slide-down draft board. but I think if he had played like he did this week all season, I don't think we're having this kind of chatter as much about him. Yeah, you know, I think that's absolutely fair.

And, you know, one of the things that I did feel about this term is I just felt like he played a much more energetic game in general, where he was on pucks more. He still forces things a bit too much for my liking just in terms of the shots that aren't there and, you know, the different angles that he's willing to shoot from that might not be the high percentage plays that I think he can make just with, you know, a little bit more stick-to-itiveness on getting to the middle. But, you know, I do think that in general, you know, the things that I haven't loved about

Eiserman's game, I did feel were a little bit less evident in this tournament. And then also the energy and pace that he played with. Like, that's another thing that I feel like his pace has improved throughout the season. I feel like he's at least, you know, it's not going to blow you away in that category. but I do think that he played, you know, with with with with some real purpose in the in the tournament. So I think that's absolutely fair. You know, it's just it's just one of those things where I think we feel like we're, you know, for me, it just feels like something's not quite clicking the way that I felt like I saw at various

points last season. But still, I mean, he's still on pace to, you know, at least challenge Cole Cawfield for his goals total. It's going to take some work for him to do it. But I did talk to Cole at the, at the tournament. and he's like, you know, I asked him, do you think you can do it? And he's like, why not? So, you know, like, I love that attitude.

I think he, you know, he certainly has this huge desire, you know, to score and to play, you play the way that he did. So I think that's a good call out, Corey, that, you know, he definitely, in terms of how he's played the rest of the season, that was some of his better hockey. I do want to hit that second line that Chris was alluding to. And the two big players on it for me, Brody Zemer and Teddy Stiga, both, I think, surpassed my expectations for them at this event. And you look at them and neither of them has kind of the natural physical tools that

you're looking for in a big time prospect. But I'm wondering when you see two guys do what they did at this event, how, if at all, does it change kind of how you view them as prospects, Corey? Well, I think that line centered by Camille Bitt and Eric, they all kind of have a lot of similar traits in their game. They're all good skaters. They compete hard. There's good skill there.

I don't think any of those three players between Beneric, Stiga, and Zemer, you're looking at it and saying, wow, that player is dynamic. He has high-end skill. He has high-end hockey sense. I don't think that's the case, but they were, you know, they outworked opponents. They grind them away to even strengthen, and they created chances. But I think the success of that line was interesting because I don't think that's been the case all season. I think it's been more of late that they've been standing out because there have been quite a few games where you've got to watch this NTP team. just Hagen's and Eisenman that draws your attention from a forward perspective.

And so I think now, you know, with the February term, it over, as always with Team USA, we look forward to the April tournament and we wonder what changes might be on the horizon here. Where are they strong and where do they need help? And I think you've always looked at this forward group all season and say there's death issues here. Maybe actually the February term of the thinking, hey, our depth issues aren't as critical as you one thought. We may not need to add three forwards here or something along those lines. It may not be a situation where we've got to call multiple players from the 17 team. But there's a chance.

You know, maybe you've got to bring up one guy. There is a chance you can, I might have to add Trevor Connolly from Tri-City at some point. But I think the success of that line makes you think, hey, we've got two lines who can play at this level. But what changes do we need to make to maybe. make our team three lines deep. Yeah, and it's important to know, too, Christian Humphreys did not play in this tournament. I think he's a depth guy that does help them in April, so he'll be available going forward. But also, you know, Max, you mentioned Stiga and Zemer.

I really thought that Benerick had a really nice tournament overall. I thought two-way game, he creates a lot of space for those guys. You know, he's the bigger player. He's the center. I like the way that he gets, you know, pretty aggressive in all zones and is able to get puck's moving. And then the thing about, you know, Teddy Stiga at various points of this season has had like these large pops of production, um, that have kind of come, come and gone. But the one thing that is kind of constant in his game that I think really does give him a

chance and makes him a bit more of a notable prospect is the motor that he plays with, the energy that he plays with. He's, he's all over the puck. And he's, you know, I thought that there were a couple games there where, you know, he really stood out in, in just because of his compete level more than his skill, which then he was able to finish plays off of that too. So, you know, I think that that is impressive. I think, you know, you add Humphreys, as Corey mentioned, maybe you add a Trevor Connolly, maybe you add another USHL forward into the mix. You know, well, you have to kind of see, I don't think there are a ton of guys in that

U-17 team that make a huge difference for them at this level, at least at the U-18 level, because that's when everything ramps up and we're expecting Canada to have a very strong team at that event. And, you know, we're expecting Finland to have some of their big guys. back. We're expecting Sweden to probably be better, you know, and playing with some confidence coming off of these international wins. But, you know, I think that there is probably a lot more comfort in that group that they have. And I think all three of those guys improve their status, you know, as prospects. And I've liked Zemer a lot throughout the season. I think that there are

flashes of dynamic elements in his game. At times, it's not consistent enough to say, as Corey said, it's not consistent enough to say he is a truly dynamic player. But you see little glimpses of that. And I think he does have pretty good hockey sense. And certainly, you know, he was able to get to the net an awful lot in this tournament, which I thought was a very important thing for this team. They scored a lot of goals right near the net, you know, and that's something that you're going to have to do in the international games as well. But really impressive performance from those three. And I think, you know, with the number of scouts, GMs, executives in the building, it was a great time for those guys to really push it. Yeah, the thing I found myself kind of going

back and forth on because really by the second period, I had noticed that I had found myself noticing Stiga a lot. And I was just thinking, okay, well, you know, the motor, the, like the skate, like, there's going to be guys with more enticing physical packages who can bring that. On the other hand, whenever we talk about undersized guys, what we say that they'll need to be able to make it are a motor and good skating. And so I couldn't decide, like, where to fall on that after, after watching him for, at that tournament.

My guess is all three of those guys are probably going to be either. second or third round picks when it's all set and done. Yeah, yeah. And I think that's a fair range. One more thing on the U.S. four, we hit a break here. I want to talk about the blue line. And I think it's a really interesting USA Blue Line because you talk about

physical toolkits, they are not short on that at all. But when I left, I felt like I thought Will Scahan was the guy who had impressed me the most of that group of Schahan, Emery and Logan Hensler that we talked about, Hensler, I think a little more offense. Where do you guys fall on on kind of what you took away from the USA Blue Line this turn? Chris, you want to start? Sure. You know, I mean, I think that in the games that I was able to see of them, you know,

there, there were certainly some good and some bad. You know, I think that we saw defensively, you know, E.J. Emery, he really can close. He was physical. He was, you know, making good plays along the wall. He was jumping into the offense a little bit. He's still looking for his first goal of the season. You know, that's a guy that, that I think has a little bit more offense than he's shown this year. Not a lot.

I'm just, you know, I'm not saying he's going to be an offensive defenseman. but, you know, I think that there's more than his numbers suggest at this point. And I think he's got a high upside. You know, same thing with Skahan. He's good at closing down gaps. He's good at, you know, forcing guys wide. You know, he has the footwork to keep up with him. You know, Handler's one of those guys that's been a little bit tricky for me this season

because I think he came out of the fall classic. You know, Corey and I were talking about this when we were out there. Huge fall classic. Like, holy smokes, is this guy going to be a top five pick next year? the skating and everything else. And I think he's kind of come back to Earth a little bit. You know, the offense is fine. He's second power play.

You know, he does a lot of good things with the puck on his stick. I think defensively there's still some improvement that needs to be made. But, you know, we always, I always kind of leave him until last in terms of the guys that we talk about. But Cole Hudson, you know, I think showed a couple of things in this tournament in the games that I watched. The compete level that he has, I think, is really, you know, a standout trait for him.

It's not necessarily, you know, he doesn't have the physical tools to always make good on that, you know, but he does have the ability to, you know, the willingness to defend, the willingness to, you know, to go, you know, be challenged and to challenge opposing forwards and to get in there regardless of the size of the opponent. And then also just, you know, I think we saw very, very good flashes of how crafty he is, had his ability to move pucks. And, you know, he's another one of those guys where I think, you know, not necessarily the dynamic element there.

I mean, there's dynamic traits that he has. You know, I like to skating. I like to, I like the way that he was moving pucks. I think his hockey sense and vision are outstanding. But yeah, I mean, I think that a lot of those guys, it's going to be interesting to see where they fall. There's a lot of debate. You've got big guys like Emery and Skahan who are going to have their fans and

going to have their detractors. you know, Hudson's going to have detractors solely because of his size. And then I think Hensler, as time goes on, it's just going to be, you know, is he putting it all together? Is the hockey sense there? Is there things that he can do beyond the physical tools that he so clearly has? I wish I could add more, but I think Chris summarized anything I could say there pretty succinctly. Well, thank you for not trampling over my smart comment.

I appreciate it. Well, because with that time saved, I'm going to stick a couple more in here because I think we do want to hit some of the underagers outside of Team Sweden. And I think especially really unchecky, Corey, Adam Beenak and Reddy Merca. Yeah, Beanak was a top player at the Link of Gretzky, so it's no surprise that he would excel again at the U-18 event. Really dynamic forward, one of the most skilled forwards at the event to go with great skating ability. I mean, he's extremely talented, with Beaneck, the debate going forward is going to be, while extremely talented, he's also extremely small. He's 5'9 on a good day might be closer to 5'8.

And so I think, you know, where that fits in a draft class is something we're going to have to figure out as the, not, well, he's not for this season, but in the following draft season. It looks like a very strong prospect, but because of that size, he's going to need to be just outstanding next season from an offense perspective to be considered a first round pick. And then Mertak is a guy who I really liked at the U-17 challenge. And then with Adam Yerichek's injury and Thomas Galvaz playing pro hockey, they bring him up to this U18 level where he stands out. He was their best offenseman, I thought.

Huge defenseman who moves pucks well, competes well, good shot. Skating isn't great, but he's huge. So you kind of look at the, other traits there and think that could translate to an NHL defenseman. And I expect, again, especially with Eurcheck out, that he's going to play a very big role for them at the World Championships. And I guess we do have a famous name we should address from this tournament, Chris, and that would be Atos Kovu.

Yes, that Kovu, Saku Kovu's son. Yeah, you know, I think this is a guy that has come kind of out of nowhere to really put himself on the map as a potential draft pick, you know, and, you know, I think it's, he's more than a potential draft pick now. I think he will be picked. And, you know, the thing that that stuck out to me is that here's a guy that, you know, was not part of the Holinkogretzky team, you know, was, was a, you know, Corey asked him point blank, you know, what were you, were you hurt or, you know, where you cut? And he was, you know, very honestly said, yeah, I was, I was not part of that. I was not picked for that team.

And as a result, you know, he, he kind of fell a little bit behind in terms of how you know, the draft industry would look at him. But over the course of the season, he's been a better than a point per game player at the U20 level. He's made his league a debut already, which is something that he said even surprised him. And then he goes and he's basically a top six forward on this finish team. Now, yes, they're missing some of their top players,

but he steps in and he makes an impact in the game. Now, he only had two points in the tournament. So we're not going to say like, oh, this is an amazing, you know, event for him. But he did have a significant impact in their game. game against Sweden at the very beginning of the tournament. And, and, you know, kind of, you know, showed that there are some traits there. He's a pretty solid skater. He's competitive.

You know, he got to the good areas. And, you know, I think that there's going to be a lot more to be learned about him as, you know, we go forward. But this is one of those players where sometimes it's a guy like him that, you know, hey, I wasn't really thinking about him too hard about, you know, as a potential draft pick. But now you say, okay, well, now I need to go back. I'm going to watch some more video of them.

I'm going to watch. I'm going to see exactly what he's doing. And certainly the name doesn't hurt. I think that NHL teams love the sons of former players because there's a certain level of professionalism that tends to come with those players. And I think you talk to Atos for five seconds, and you see that shine through.

I mean, just a very personable young man, honest, direct. And clearly, you know, a guy that's just still figuring things out. And I was just, I came away, you know, excited to learn more about the player. and obviously that's going to require more homework. But I think for me, that's a guy where I come out of that tournament and say, okay, I got to keep a closer eye on him. Good bloodlines, what they call that in the baseball world. We're going to take a quick break.

That's right, on that note, and we will get back and we're going to talk about some of the prospects of note as we approach the NHL trade deadline. All right, we're back. And gentlemen, I don't know if you've noticed. We are only three weeks, I think in exactly three weeks from the NHL trade deadline. And we've already had a couple, obviously, big names on the move, of course, Sean Monaghan and Leas Lindholm. But I wanted to gauge kind of where you're at on some of the prospects who we should be monitoring. I think some of the names out

there, there are a couple big ones. I think, you know, recent top 10 picks, Capo Kako, who I don't know if we're calling a prospect anymore, and Philip Broberg would probably be the two that I want to start with. And let's start with Kako, Corey. Like, where do you think things stand with where Kako's game is at? Is this a player if you were the New York Rangers, you'd be willing to move. I would be willing to move him, but I also think he's a good hockey player, and I know his career has been up and down. Definitely his season has been more of the down variety this year, whereas I thought the

previous season it was trending in a good direction, frankly, for Capocaco. But the Rangers, I think, could be open to doing this because he's not producing right now, because they're trying to win right now because wingers is a position of strength for them both on their current roster and in their organization coming up like they might have to be happy with the progress

of Will Cooley and you got to imagine at some point in the next few years you can't always bank on somebody picking the 20s to be on your roster but you got to imagine just how goodies look Gabe Perra is going to be part of their team at some point in the next few years and and for all those reasons you know what you know left for a year

is progressing well you figure he's going to get paid at some point. You don't know whether you want to really pay Kako. I think you have to be open to moving it. All that being said, I still think this is a, you know, a good size, powerful winger. He's got very good skill. I think there is more offense in his game than he's shown so far. And, you know, we've had this discussion with Lepernier and Kako over quite a few years now already that in a different team, on a different power play. Maybe their numbers would look different. I don't think Cock was going to be anything special. I think that dream has probably faded.

But if you told me he could become a legit second-line winger in another organization, I'd buy that. I'm not saying he's going to make it be a difference maker, but I think he could be a good at HL player still. And I think I wouldn't sell him for nothing if I was the Rangers. And I don't think that's the kind of trade we're talking about. Obviously, you know, that there's the names, some of the names linked to the Rangers are of that kind.

You know, you're talking about guys who can potentially replace Philip Heedol or something in their lineup. So I agree. It's probably something that the Rangers need a really strong incentive to do. What about Philip Broberg, Chris? Because this is another guy, you know, maybe even in terms of Edmonton, more urgent need to probably go for it, even though I do think the Rangers can win it. But when you look at where the Oilers are at, it does seem like this is the time to leave everything on the table. Yeah, I mean, you know, I'd be very intrigued to know what kind of, you know, what kind of overall value he has to two other teams out there.

You know, I think what we've seen from him at the NHL level has been underwhelming, you know, to say the least. And then, you know, he's been a solid HL guy. You know, he's a good skater. He's got size. He can defend. You know, I think that there's plenty, you know, of tools there. And he's still, you know, he's still a young guy. I mean, you know, all things considered 22 years old. I mean, you certainly would want to have seen some more progression with the amount of time that he spent in North America here and haven't really necessarily seen it. But, you know, I think that is a guy that, you know, not only should you be willing to move, but, you know, I think that there's, there should be teams out there that can see the project in him and the possibility that there's still potential to potentially, or still potential to mine out of him, you know, and maybe given the right opportunity, more ice time, different role, things could potentially work.

out for him in another organization. But, you know, I just don't think it's, you know, it's never really particularly looked like it's, it's, you know, worked out perfectly. In Edmonton, I thought that, you know, at the time of the pick, I thought it was a good pick. I thought he was a guy that had had potential to be, you know, a top four guy. I think there's always been concerned about his hockey sense and about, you know, whether or not he's, he's truly, you know, thinks it at the NHL level. And that's, that's going to continue to be, you know, part of his story as teams try to develop them. But the physical tools have always, you know, been notable.

So, yeah, so I'll be interested to see where exactly what the value looks like for him. I'm not a big fan of like throwing out data. He would be able to make those arguments of like, hey, if this guy had been in this league, if he didn't come up at this age, whatever, because you can't change the past and you can't, shouldn't throw out data. So like the fact that he has been in the NHL and various stints and hasn't played well in those stints is relevant and important data when considering Broberg. But if I had just told you, you know, in a bubble, let's just say this is some guy who had

played in Europe for his entire career. And he just came over this season. And in this season, he is a 6-3, 6-4 defenseman who skates really well. And he has 19 points in 29 American League games. I feel like if those were the only facts you knew, I feel like people would be really excited about that prospect and be like, wow, he has a lot of potential. This could be a good NHL player. And I guess you have to consider, I've watched him in the NHL of this season.

I've seen that he's throwing pucks away and the play looks fast for him at times but there's sometimes when he's going back on pucks with those feet and he's pulling away from four checkers and you're like man he just does one thing different on that play like that that's an NHL play all day and this guy who could be a top or NHL defenseman and he's only 22 years old still

so he's really interesting one for me I think there is a market on this player I think that if the Oilers tried to trade him, I think he can get a decent return back. Because for the player type, the position, if you hit on this guy, I think you'll be very happy, even though I know it hasn't gone that way so far in the NHL. I don't want to take us too down the speculative road here. But one of the names that you've heard linked to the Oilers so far as Jordan Eberley, who's obviously in Seattle.

And that is one that makes me think Seattle does not have. have a ton of young defensemen with upside in their system. Yeah, they're just such a young franchise. And that is one that like immediately, you know, they have Riker Evans and they've got Vince Dunn, obviously, and they've got a couple veteran D signed. It's not an urgent need or anything. I'm not saying that.

But that is one that I thought that could be kind of interesting. And that's a team that I think, to Corey's point, would see the value in that, right? Yeah. I mean, I think I think that's a good match in terms of the, the organization and, you know, they're in a position that potentially take. a chance on a guy and give him the opportunity that, you know, maybe hasn't been there.

Because that's what he needs. He's going to need opportunity. You're not just grafting him to keep him stashed. Right, right. Right. And maybe like the other thing, just style of style of play. He might fit better with, you know, a Dave Haxstall kind of style, you know, in this, in this time.

And, you know, like, like Corey said, I just think that the game moved too fast for him in Edmonton. And then, you know, is that because they, they have team speed? is it because they have, you know, the elite players that they have. You know, that's, that's one thing. But, yeah, I mean, quite frankly, I think that that's, that's going to be the thing that is going to be the hardest for me to overcome in terms of viewing his value is just, I've long been concerned about his hockey sense, but I think at the NHL level, it gets exposed.

So, you know, that's the thing. Like, Everly, I feel like Everly is a player that Seattle, you know, should want to potentially resign. Yeah. Um, you know, so that's the other thing is like, what's the value versus keeping Jordan Eberley? And I think the value of keeping Jordan Eberley far surpasses the hope of a, um, of a broberg. Yeah, that's fair. All right. I want to talk about a couple of the teams that we think could be interesting here. And the first one that comes to mind for me is Dallas. They have picks. They can trade picks. But if there's a prospect that they're going to move, Corey, I don't think it's

Logan Stank of it. I don't think it's Leon Bischel. Anyone come to mind? I feel like you're leading me. to a very particular name, and that name would be Maverick Bork, who has been one of the top scores in the American League this season. And I think the conundrum here for Dallas is quite interesting. They have a really good team. They have a very good group of forwards, and thus why despite Stancoven and Bork having such fantastic years

in the American League this year, there's been no opportunity for them to come up and play in the NHL this season. Frankly, even the former high-picked title, Andrea is basically a fourth line forward for them. at this point. And I look at Stancoven and Bork, and I think they're both great prospects. I would lean Stankovin just because I think there's a skating differential there in an extremely high compete level in Stancovin's case.

But I have a hard to imagine them next season promoting two undersized forwards at the same time, probably who are both going to be wingers in the NHL for them right away. So I look at Bork in particular, I wonder, is this somebody who could be put on the block? and I would have only imagined that would happen with Dallas, given how good a year he's having, if there's a major deal to be had. If they would have been on it, say, Elias Lindholm,

that would have made sense. Lyons Lindholm gets traded to Vancouver. Who else is out there that could make that kind of intrigue? Well, it probably would be if Noah Hanifan came on the block, and now you're thinking of a blue line that has Thomas Harley, who's mind you having a great year. I feel like we'll talk here. A whole other issue.

Miroa skinhead and now you add Noah Hannafin to that blue line and now all of a sudden I think you know you're cooking in Dallas with that strong forward group as well and Jake Odinger and Nett so I think if they can get a hanafin

then I think Bork makes some sense otherwise I think there's no you have this guy for for another year and a bit till he has to hit waivers and you have time to make a decision on where you're going to go with those two small forwards yeah how about Vancouver I mean they've done Lynn

home. Are they, in your eyes, is that closed the door and anything that they do? You still monitoring? Because they are the league leading team. Like, there's nothing that says they can't make another trade here. It would be rare, though, for a team to make two big trades, right? Like, they might make a small trade. And that's where I think, like, you look at the big prospect pieces they had,

which would have been, obviously put Coles in the American League's former 10th overall pick. And I know Neal's Hoglanders have been playing better lately, but there was a time where he felt like he might be on the trade block there for a minute. You know, both of them, not amazing skating. but both have, you know, legit scoring traits at high compete levels. I don't, I think unless they somehow decided to make yet another big move, seems very unlikely. They would be trading one of their prime young pieces right now. Yeah.

As we were kind of prepping the show today, we were talking about some of the teams that we might want to talk about. And one of those teams was Carolina, who obviously, as they are every year, is a contender, one of the best teams in the East, one of the best teams in the league. They're also a team that has gotten a lot of, plot it's on draft day, I think, over the past several years, team that likes to stockpile picks. They get a lot of the guys that maybe, you know, fans perceive to have fallen or maybe are kind of fan favorite types.

I wonder when you look at their system today, do you see anyone that you feel like is, you know, kind of bay tier? Sometimes that can lead to a lot of kind of overstocking of your reserve list, so to speak, and you can't sign everybody or where are you at on kind of Woodson Carolina system and anything you think they could do. Well, I think there's a couple of names that are really intriguing.

Like I think like Bradley, NATO, their most recent first round picks having a heck of a freshman year at Maine, almost to the point where I don't know if Carolina would be willing to trade him. You know, I have some minor issues with NATO's pro projection. But, I mean,

if you like that player, then he goes in and has the year he has. I can't imagine they like him less. So I think that would be a hard guy to imagine getting traded. I think you look at someone more recent. drafts. And like said, there's some stuff in there, you know, like I don't think like the 2022 draft, I don't think Leptrikazov or Alexander Paravala have value right now on the trade block. Cruz Luce's might have a little bit of trade value. I think Scott Morrow could be a guy that'd

be interesting. Interesting to teams. And the fact that he hasn't signed yet, I think is an interesting indicator to teams right now about where he is in terms of his relationship with Carolina. I think you have saying some similar questions with Jackson Blake. I think Carolina is in a very interesting predicament because they don't have an American League team. So when you have these college players, it's like, what do we do with these guys exactly? Where are we telling them they're going to play? How do their advisors feel about where they're going to play? I feel like those good college profits like Blake, like Moore are interesting to follow. I think those are the main ones that stand out to me. Some of their

most recent high picks like Noel Gunderer, Ryan Suzuki didn't really age quite well, Jameson and Reese. But I think like those college play. in particular would be interesting. Maybe, you know, I think if they made a big trade, you're talking about their recent high picks like Nato or Ungersorum, but I feel like the college players seem more likely to be included in any Carolina trade. Yeah, and you know, there's an interesting dynamic here. The players, Corey's talking about, and I think, you know,

Carolina does get a lot of plotts from the public, you know, when they, when they draft well, because they are typically a team. team that does not shy away from smaller players. They're a team that does not shy away from, you know, the Russian skill players, you know, that some teams are a little bit leery of. And so those tend to be the flashy players that a lot of people in the public really like. And I've definitely felt like they've picked a lot of guys that I've liked a lot. Guys, you know, guys like, you know, some of the, some of the Russian players they have picked, like even the Silly Panamara, who's, you know, had a decent.

run in the in the in the hl um but you know there there have been plenty of guys like that the the thing is is that those are very specific to carolina and how they draft it is not in concert with how nhl teams typically are drafting now they are going with size they are going with bigger players and so when you look at their list i mean i think one of the guys that has the highest value is probably nekishan is their best prospect will he ever come you know will he ever come over and that's that's the guy where it's like, hey, that guy looks like an NHL defenseman all day, every day, and has not, you know, made the jump over here. And that looks like a tremendous pick.

And that's the guy that's more fits with that team. And I'll go ahead, Corey. I know you want to jump. Yeah, I can't see him being traded unless it's like a Trevor Zek or something like that, right? Right, exactly. They shouldn't move them. They shouldn't move them. But, I mean, the other thing is they have to sign him at some point.

And if he doesn't sign, then there's no value to them for him just sitting there. So, but yeah, that's the other thing is that I, agree. It would have to be a massive piece in order to move a player like Nikishi, who's probably the best defenseman, not currently in the NHL. But to get back to that point of, you know, when you draft a certain way and when you draft to your team's identity, which you should do, because, you know, you have a philosophy and that's how you want to go. The thing is that I don't think it's necessarily getting the kind of players that Rod Brindamore is going to want to put on his roster at this point. You know, that's the other thing is that you have, they are a team that often will trade back and get multiple picks. And so they've built up this prospect system that has a lot of numbers. And some of those guys could hit.

But I do think that there is something there where they're not getting the same players that are going to be coveted by other teams, which makes it more difficult to trade those players. And then all of a sudden you're in this position where, oh, I have to trade draft picks now because those have more value than the guys that have been in our system. and so that's interesting. The tradeback thing is interesting because I think that's kind of like the two different parts of their draft strategy. It's both, you know, targeting skill and trading back to acquire picks, which I don't necessarily disagree with.

I think there's a certain point in a draft where players become indistinguishable, sorry, from each other. And it makes sense to get two more picks in the early to mid third than to pick in the mid-second or something like that. I know it's not as simple as that typically, but that's what the analysis usually is. But after you get past a certain point in the draft, it's really hard to find players.

After the top 20, it's extremely difficult to find a full-time NHL player. So you look at all those picks. I think since 2019, they must have made, I don't know, like 40 picks, 45 picks already. I think you look at their non-first-round draft picks. And it's really just like Niketian. and maybe Blake makes it, maybe Moro makes it,

they're still in the conversation, but it's really only one guy there who you're looking at, you know, other than NATO and being like, he looks like a real player. But that's what the numbers are. And I wonder if you went to Carolina and been like, hey,

you're going to make whatever it is 40 picks after the first round in a five-year span. That's a lot of picks. And that's a lot of trading around and moving down on the first round, moving out of the first round, which in the case of the Scott Morrow year and doing all of that. And I said, if you did all of that,

and I only think there's going to be one player from those 40 picks, so I think it's going to make it. But I think he has a chance to be an impact player. I think they take that all day. Interesting. I think, I mean, it's especially when you're not picking that high. Like they had Jarvis, I think, in that same span too, that, you know, and that I think maybe even tips the scales even more toward what you're saying.

But it is a problem, obviously. Yeah. Was that? Oh, yeah, yeah, you're right. Yeah. that's in that range. But I do think Chris's point is interesting because what he's kind of saying, I think, is when you draft a certain way that's maybe against the grain of the league,

those aren't players you can then trade to the same league that passed on them later. You're really betting it's us or it's nobody, right? Yeah, I don't, when I've been asking around the league, I don't get a center of a ton of interest in some of the top prospects. Like I do, I do think, like there are some, like I said, I think NATO, Morrow, Blake. and obviously Nikitian's a whole other conversation. Vili Kovin in it all?

Yeah, he's a maybe, Uggarsorms and maybe. I think there's, you know, like I said, that's the player type. They're not great skaters, but they're both highly, highly skilled. So you need, if you're going to get that guy, you need to feel confident

he's going to be on your power play. And like those are, those are, you know, those are the conversations you would need to have about those players. All right, one more guy I want to ask you guys about before we hit a break here. Maybe not as big a name as some of the ones

we talked about at the beginning. It's Seamus Casey, who was not a top. 10 pick. It wasn't actually a first round pick. He went, I think, in the mid-40s, a couple years back to the Devils. But he's producing at a level at Michigan that does surpass kind of that draft slot. And usually, I think that's the kind of player you're talking about is, oh, maybe this is a little bit of a find. In New Jersey, I wonder if that's even possible with the kind of powerplay quarterbacks that they have with Luke Hughes and now with Simon Nemitz and obviously

Dougie Hamilton is still signed for several years there. It's really hard for me to see a world where Seamus Casey is ever a New Jersey devil given all that, and yet he's producing in a way that tells me we should be more excited about him. And usually that is the conditions that I see for a, okay, this prospect obviously looks like trade bait to me. Am I way over my skis there? What do you read on Seamus Casey, Chris? I, you know, I don't think you're, I don't think you're over your skis,

but I do, I mean, I do think that there are certainly, you know, other factors at play. I mean, you know, he still is an undersized defenseman. I think he's a really good skater. I like the way that he defends. I mean, I like the way that he played it at the world juniors and certainly have how he's played here. And you look at the production and the historic comparables. And, you know, it's guys like Adam Fox and there's like that in recent memory that have put up those kind of points.

I mean, the other thing that's kind of interesting is that Michigan has like five of the top scores in college hockey right now and are one of the worst at giving goals up. They are bleeding goals like you wouldn't believe. And so defensively, I do have some concerns about, you know, exactly what kind of value that creates for Seamus Casey. There's no doubt that he's skilled. He's highly intelligent. I think that he's a competitive player. I like him a lot.

And I do think that there are teams that will see that. But I don't think the market is gigantic for a player that kind of fits his physical profile. And then also, you know, just kind of the situation that he's in right now where we're really, that's a team that just really can't defund. and they're not getting goal tending. So that makes it a little bit more interesting. But I do, you know, I think clearly, you know, New Jersey's in a situation where they have a surplus in that particular area and it makes it much easier to deal a player like that,

you know, at least to make the decision that that player is available via trade. I think it's going to be, you know, the market might not be as strong in my opinion. But I'd be interested to hear what Corey thinks on that as well. Well, it's a similar situation to why they traded Shakir Mikhail Mekamadoulin this time last year, right? The same thing, too many defense prospects. He's a good player. We think he might play for us, but probably not in a position where it maximizes his value. That's probably the same case with Casey this year.

I'd argue Casey's value is lower at this time than McComadulins. I agree. But not significantly lower, but definitely lower. The other angle, too, is that we talk about, well, New Jersey looks at their team and thinks, well, where does he fit? Maybe he's a trade asset for us. The other angle is what if Casey looks at their team and says, where do I fit? Yes.

Do I want to sign here? And that's often what happens with college players. We talked about this with Carolina earlier, like, where are they going to play in the American League? A lot of college players who are top prospect will look at teams and be like, do I fit in this depth chart or not? You know, do I want to play here? You know, do I want to, no, James Casey is probably looking at the scene and being like, if I sign at the end of the year, I'm probably going to the American League for the next two to three years. So I think that's all relevant factors to consider. Yeah.

I mean, even if it, okay, so just to use another kind of guy of the same height offensive profile, like Scott Perunovich had a pretty successful college career, hasn't yet really broken through in the NHL. I guess to Chris's point, Brunovich wasn't going to be a centerpiece of a major trade. But if you worry to Corey's, like if you worry, you're not going to be able to sign this guy anyway. And you can use him to get a piece for a team that I think can still make the playoffs this year and even win a round or two. I don't know. It just, it strikes me as something that's worth monitoring personally, for sure.

And if the blues had Trayette Peronovich after his, you know, his big final season there, I think he would have been able to fetch them at least a reasonable return. Yeah. Yeah. And a, Max, real quick,

just to put some, just to context to your, what we were talking about with Seamus Casey, U-20 defenseman over the last 20 years, fifth highest points per game average this season for Seamus Casey. The other guys ahead of them are, Lane Hudson twice, Z. William, this year, and Luke Hughes, and then Adam Fox is just behind him. Jake Sanderson just behind him. Yeah, Jack Johnson just behind him. So those are, those are the players that, you know, what he's doing this year, there is no question. It is special. I just want to make that clear as well.

Is it special if the four better seasons have all happened in the last 18 months? Well, I mean, historically it's special. There is, there, it's fair. Like, there is a, like, there is a, trend. Like this is something that we're going to keep seeing, you know, trend this direction. Here's, here's a thing. Like, I think that defense, defensemen and the offensive defensemen are, are, we're turning back the clocks more to the Paul coffee, Ray Bork era in terms of the kind of style of, of offensive defense that we're seeing. Now, these are all those guys I listed, undersized defensemen with high end skill. You know, so that's, that's, that's an interesting thing. And the thing is, is that none of those guys have played an NHL game yet. So we don't know if

it's going to work. But we see what we see Quinn Hughes. We see Cal McCar. We see Ed and Fox. We see these players. And they're coming from that same same pipeline. But this is, I think they have opened the door for players that play like these guys. So yeah. I always find it fascinating when I've been talking to people this year about like Z-Boy and then already the shoot-off. And they'll say, oh, I don't know if you defend well enough this year. I saw something. This guy had a bad game against, you know, this top college team or whatever. And I'm like, do you, like, go look at their numbers compared to like the last top prospects in college. Look at what Quinn Hughes was like.

Look at what like Rowensky was like. It's they, they are just completely off the charge relative to what we're used to seeing from draft eligible in college. Even like own power. Yes. That's exactly. Lev Shunov's already ahead of his point total.

It's insane. Well ahead, I think, right? Well ahead. Yes. Well ahead. Yeah. I mean, wasn't like Zeev Boy,

I'm going to pass like what Baneers and Kent Johnson did in there? draft season. It's, it's, it's trending that way. It's still on, it's still very, he is ahead of them on points per game. So, yes. Fun stuff. All right. Let's take a quick break. We're going to come back with a good mailbag. All right. Let's hit a mailbag to close things out today. And Chris, we'll start with you here. Habs draft nut wants to know, can you compare the games of recent top NTP goals scores like Cole Caulfield, Oliver Wallstrom, and Cole Iserman? How did they look at the same age? any important rhyme between their games or anything about Isermans that make you think he's more like one than the other? Yeah, I think they're all pretty different in terms of how they score.

Like the thing that Cole Caulfield always did so well, better than anybody. And, you know, better than any prospect I've seen is how he pops into space and was able to, you'll find the scoring areas and, you know, had that accurate shot and everything else like that. I think, you know, I do think that, you know, Eiserman is a better skater, has, you know, better, you know, bigger, he's stronger, good size. And so he can, he can score in a few more ways than Cole could at the same age. You know, and I think in that way, he's, he's a little bit similar to Wallstrom. I just think that Wallstrom, you were always kind of wanting more from the effort level and different things. And, you know, his game, similar to, similar to Wallstrom, I felt like his game needs a little bit more of a driver like a James Higgins. Like, you know, I thought Walshrom when he got with Jack Hughes, it really opened up a lot

of scoring avenues for him when Hughes played up as an underager. You know, but I always thought that, you know, I think that Cole is one of the, you know, Cole, Cole Iserman, you know, is, is really a higher, a higher end score, you know, with his, I think his shot is outstanding. I think, you know, the thing that, it's hard for me to say that he's better than a better goal score than Cole because I think Cole thought the game a little bit better. And so I think that that's part of it. But the physical tools are the advantage. So I think they're all different.

You know, Wallstrom was certainly a score from distance style kind of guy. They all kind of are. But, you know, that was, yeah, I just, it's, it's, they're definitely similarities in terms of, you know, shooting, deceptiveness of the shot, the ability to score from distance, those types of things. but I do think that they, the separating factor for me was always that I thought that Cole Coughfield of those three players had the highest level of hockey sense. I think Eisenman falls somewhere in between

Cossield and those other players. Like I think, man, there's other goal scores you can talk about, but because they're all programmed cases that's why this question comes. And I've heard of mention many times the season already. Like I think Eisenman's going to play. I think he's going to be a good top six winger in the NHL.

I don't know if he's a legit, star in the NHL a guy who you think is going to be like a massive part of your team and somebody who you know you think you're going to give like a big money deal to and you know be really happy to have around for 15 years he might end up being that like he could be like a

oh antipat type um but I think like comparing him I think he's definitely closer to Caulfield than he is to the other two although kind of like Chris said I don't think you know he has quite has maybe just quite as much pure skill as Cawfield had like you look at some of the hands plays

cocked up things with a puck. Like, those are pretty distinct. I think, you know, he would make a few more plays than Eisenman does. But probably Eisenman's a better skater. Yep. All right. This is from Ryan, who wants to know, can Rutger McGority be a difference maker in the playoffs for the Jets if he turns

pro this year? Corey, we'll start with you on this one. Interestingly enough, I was at a Michigan game last weekend. And who did I spot there in the crowd? But Winnipeg Jets general manager, Kevin Shavadeoff, who I'm sure was just there on a coincidence. But obviously with five nations in town, so he was there to see that

and talk to McRority too as well as part of the recruiting process. I would say no this season, not for the playoffs. I think that's a year away from McRourty with his skating. I think he's been really, really impressive in college. You love to compete. You love his hockey sense.

I'm not sure what Chris thinks. I think he's not ready to help the Jets do what they need to get done here in the spring. I would lean against that right now. Yeah, I would agree. And I think, you know, they're just, it's a big jump. It's a big jump. And I think, you know, you look at some of the players that have made the jump.

And I feel like they are players that were, you know, physic, like had some more of the physical tools like the skating ability. You know, the side. Like if you think about Chris Kreider jumping into the playoffs years ago, we had size skating ability. Kail McCar, elite skater, high, you know, super high in hockey sense. I think that, you know, Rucker has, has a lot. a lot of tools, but I just don't think that he would make a big enough difference at this stage

of his career to warrant a playoff roster spot. Okay. I actually would love to get both of your takes on this one, but we'll start with Chris. Adam wants to know what was the most dominant CHL slash NCAA team you've ever seen relative to the competition? And what was the most stacked CHL NCAA team you've ever seen if it's a different answer from the first question, which it very well could be? Wow.

Yeah, that's something certainly certainly, certainly. think about because there are you know i think um i'm thinking back to one of one of the best and most dominant teams that that i saw was that michigan team with um jt com for tyler mott and andrew cop at the top of their lineup that was pretty good one um same north dakota you know north dakota when they had bessor schmaltz and kejula as their top line the cbs line yes same year um those two teams and then North Dakota was the one that won the national championship that year in Tampa. So I think that's, that one is certainly up there as well in terms of the best NCAA teams. You know, I think back to the London team that had Mitch Marner, Matthew

Chuck and Christian Dvorak. It usually comes down to having like that superstar line, that super, you know, and they had other players, of course, but you know, those, those singular lines that dominate so much and drive the bus for a team. You know, so I would say that at least this is, I'm talking more in recent memory. You know, I think the most historic team, I was a kid, but I did watch Maine when they were, you know, the one lost team that won the national championship with Paul Korea and Jim Montgomery. So, you know, but yeah, but I think in recent memory, those are some of the teams that instantly come to my mind. Yeah, I wish he would have answered the question that was given

won because that's what the question said. Can't do it. Because I was going to name the 2016 London night with Matthew Cuck, with Mitch Marta, with Christian DeVorea on them who won an OHSL championship and a Memorial Cup championship. That was an absolutely loaded team. Some other good names in that team, Victor Mette, great junior player.

Robert Thomas with a 16-year-old on that team. There were several other I think the ULAVie was on that team at one point. That was an excellent junior team. Some of the other you know, the great junior teams I could think of if it wasn't the London team, I would have gone to think of the, you know, the Halifax Mooseheads from 10 years ago,

you know, with, you know, with Jonathan Jewett and Nathan McKinn on, on that team, for example. The Portland Winterhawks around that same time had some absolutely fantastic junior teams as well. So those would be the main names for me that would come to mind. So those are the most dominant, right? Oh, yeah, for sure. I would say the, in terms of even just Michigan teams, there was the one with, Power, Baneers, Johnson, Luke Hughes, that's probably more stacked, right, than even the... Well, yeah, they're more stacked, but they didn't, you know, neither of those Michigan teams.

But I think you look, even though they were stacked in town, I think you look relative to their competition, how they scored, how they played. I don't think they dominated their opposition routinely, whereas I think I was just, I was looking at up while I was getting ready to answer the question before Chris jumped in. The London Knights that year, in 68 games played, had 319. team goals for you know in their conference the next best team had 269 you know it's just just a different level of dominance you know that that could chuck devorak marner group was special yeah i think the best or kajl is schmaltz in terms of you know what what they actually

did in winning the championship college wise i think you'd have to give them the night not yeah they get the edge they get the edge for sure yeah all right good stuff uh j j gab wants to know corey what is it that Sam Dickinson in the top 10 and Liam Green Tree out of it. Obviously, two different positions, too. So they're not really a head-to-head com. But I guess you could touch on both of these two guys. Well, Green Tree is definitely trending up. I had him around 30 on my last list.

And I know I made a comment with Scott Wheeler on the last podcast. I don't think it's going to age well because just talking to people around the league right now. I get the sense he's really trending up. You made a bat with him, right? I did it. Oh, yes. It's not going to go well. And but.

Let's hope wheels collects on that one. I think he's going, I don't think he's going top 10, but I think top 20 is probably the range. He may not, though. A good conversation about Green Tree was having on somebody. It was like, how would he compare Twinton Mustie at the same age? And I think he really can connect the dots there a little bit. And Musti goes, what, like 25 in his draft class?

I'm not sure he goes much higher if we do that draft. I know that's a future question in this mailback is about Mustie. But the big difference as to why Dickens is the top 10 prospects, despite not having as good numbers as Green Tree is a skating ability. Dickinson is one of the best skaters in the draft and Gritry among top prospects would be among the lower end of the top prospects in terms of skating ability

and that's the big differentiator. Green Tree has more skill than Dickinson and definitely better hockey sense but Dickinson is far, far better athlete and absolutely looks like an age premium position. I think you look at Dickinson

and you think if he hits if the offense translates and he hits this guy could be Jake Sanders And I think with Green Tree, the path is much more narrow to becoming an impact NHL player. Yeah. All right. Chris, we'll go to you with this one. Michael wants to know, did Leon Bischel make the right choice to go to the SHL this year,

has it pushed back his NHL readiness at all by not playing on North American ice? Oh, no, no, I wouldn't think so. I mean, it's not like, you know, if this was some uncharted path that we hadn't seen before, you know, I don't think that, you know, the decision necessary was wrong. I mean, you look back at, you know, basically more at Sider went to the H.L had to return to Rogla. You know, I think that that's, that, that him going back to Europe isn't really going to change that. I mean, I think the questions I have is, you know, ultimately, you know, we're still trying to figure out exactly what kind of player he's going to be. You know, I think that there are certainly, you know, great potential, great ceiling on him, you know, teams that,

that would love a player of his size and athletic ability. But, you know, I don't think going there clearly hasn't opened up any new avenues in his game. I don't think that there's anything that has materially changed one way or the other. I do think, you know, defending on North American ice is a different animal. You know, it's certainly more to the walls and more, you know, you're still playing between the dots and internationally, but there's just all that extra space gives it, you know, makes it a little bit, you know, different, different in terms of closing gaps and things like that. But I think in general, I don't think it pushes anything back for him, you know, if nothing else,

it gives him an idea of what else he still needs to work on. I mean, you know, I haven't watched a ton of his games in Rogla. So, you know, I couldn't really say definitively, you know, in terms of where he's at right now in terms of, you know, NHL timeline. but, you know, I don't think going to Europe was going to materially change his, his developmental trajectory. All right. And then Corey will close with you here.

You alluded to it a moment ago. Charlie Douglas wants to know about Quentin Musty says it seems like he's dominating the OHL this year. But given his age, he's still not able to go to the AHL next year. What's the best developmental path for him to take given that? Yeah, obviously, so Sudbury's been having a great season. this year, ever since Dalboor, Dvorski came to Sudbury, that power play's been on fire, that team's been on fire.

Whether Dvorsky will be back next year is something that's not clear. Unlike Mustie, he does have the option to go to the American League. I do wonder if St. Louis would exercise that option to bring him up to the American League next year. So now he goes, if Musti goes back, he doesn't have quite the supporting death. Goethe's probably going to be gone. Dvorsky's going to be gone. It'll be a more difficult environment for him to secure. succeed in. And I think that is the path. I don't think you bring them up to the sharks next year.

I mean, it really depends on what happens. I mean, if you're bringing in a bunch of kids, like if Will Smith's coming in and whoever they pick high comes in this season, maybe it's different because you're trying to build around some kids. But if it's just going to be a lot of losing again, let's say Smith goes back. Let's say they pick whoever in this draft with Shunov and he goes back, for example. It may not make a whole lot of sense to bring in musty to maybe maybe for a couple of games and you send him back. if he has a good camp. But I think you look at a similar style player,

like say, like a Dylan Strome, for example, like that guy took years for him to be ready for the NHL. Like, I think when you are at a super good skater like Marcia's, who isn't extremely competitive, I think that's going to be a really tough transition to the NHL as a teenager. Let him go back, let him dominate the OHL, go to another contender, go on the World Junior team and play well at the World Juniors.

That is the better path for him, I think. All right, and that is going to do it for us today. Thanks for listening to this episode of the Athletic Hockey Show Prospects series. You can catch more of Chris, of course, over at Flow Hockey and on his podcast, Talkin Hockey Sense. And right now, get a one-year subscription to The Athletic for $2 a month when you visit theathletic.com slash hockey show. We'll talk to you soon.