The Athletic Hockey Show - NHL training camps open, Nathan MacKinnon's team friendly deal and Bill Daly on the salary cap, world cup and the Hockey Canada scandal

Episode Date: September 21, 2022

Jesse Granger, Michael Russo and Joe Smith look back on the massive deal signed by Nathan MacKinnon which somehow is still a team friendly deal for Colorado. The guys stick tap the careers of Zdeno Chara, P.K. Subban and Keith Yandle, they discus the Jets decision to strip Blake Wheeler of his Captaincy and take a look at some of the more surprising PTO's offered to established NHL'ers this fall.Bill Daly, the deputy commissioner of the NHL joins Russo and Sean Gentille from NHL media week to discuss a number of topics including the salary cap, the world cup, advertising on jerseys and the NHL's view on the recent sexual assault scandals involving Hockey Canada.  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the Athletic Hockey Show. Welcome to another athletic hockey show Wednesday edition Roundtable. I'm Jesse Granger filling in for Rob Pizzo, who is currently, I believe, in a hurricane in the Dominican right now. Hopefully Rob's doing all right on the beach that he's on with a tropical drink. I am joined this week by Mike Russo in Minnesota. How's it going, Mike? Good. It shows you how we get into our own little worlds. I didn't even put two and two together that he's down there during their first.

hurricane. Wow, that's brutal. Yeah, hopefully he's all right. And Mike and I are joined by Joe Smith, who's still in Tampa Bay at the moment. How's it going, Joe? Doing well. How are you guys? You guys, uh, tear it up in Vegas a couple weeks ago or how to go? I did. Yeah, Michael did. I'm under the weather and I'm, I let those guys tear it up here. I'm here all the time. But you guys are going to be able to tear it up in Minnesota here pretty soon, right? Yeah, Joe comes here in three days to look for a home with his lovely wife. Uh, they're actually going to be staying in, so I'm in my office right now. The extra bedroom is right next to my office. And there's a couple winter coats, Jesse, laying on their bed that I got them as,

as like compensation for Joe actually accepting this transfer year to Minnesota. It was a part of the recruiting package. It really was. I think that was the final straw, Jesse. I said, I literally said to Joe, if you take the job, I'll get you guys winter coats. So no reason to even own a winter coat in Tampa Bay, right? Well, except for when I take the trip of Winnipeg during Buffalo. in December, January, and the lighting trip. So you have to have some sort of warm weather to gear to survive a hockey season, right? So even a Vegas writer knows that.

By the way, Jesse, that was another prerequisite for Joe taking the job is that he still takes that Winnipeg Buffalo trip. Yeah. They can't possibly be the same trip, are they? The two rules were the two things that Joe has to deal with is one, he's got to do the Winnipeg Buffalo trips,

but the other one is any Canadian radio station that calls me for an interview gets immediately forwarded to Joe. So TSN 1290 in Edmonton or something like that. Yep, exactly. That's yours. Regina Saskatchewan or something. Got the numbers program to automatically redirect.

Speaking of getting on the road, I mean, we're getting pretty close, right? Training camps opening today all across North America. I know the Golden Knights, I mean, they're not on the ice today, but they are doing off-ice testing. Obviously, Joe looks like he's kind of in the middle of stuff right now with the lightning. How excited are you guys to be back in the same? season and it looks like we're going to be kind of back to normal pre-pandemic in the locker rooms it looks like we're finally back to kind of a normal world they'll definitely be exciting

you know so another short summer from this side of the side of the country but yeah i think um just being able to be in the room after a practice and just having that type of conversations and relationship building that you you couldn't had in like the scrums and having covered a cup run on a zoom for 2020 it's not nearly the same thing so uh back on the road and you know also traveling and the season starting up. And so I think it's a lot of excitement. Both in Tampa and I've been looking forward to going to Minnesota too and experiencing that life too.

Yeah, me as well. I mean, Joe just alluded to it, but my biggest excitement level is just getting back in the locker rooms and talking to these guys face to face. I mean, I will say, and Joe will learn this here in Minnesota. And actually, I should say, Joe has a really good PR staff down in Tampa. And I learned this covering the Eastern Final and the Stanley Cup final is that the Wild. I've always been incredibly compromising or accommodating when it comes to getting guys one-on-one, even throughout the pandemic. They were just absolutely unbelievable.

So even though we weren't in the locker rooms, if I needed a player, I'd just say something in their PR department and I'd get that player. But now to be in the locker room and just, you know, kind of, you know, go the old, you know, notebook in the back pocket, go from stall to stall and talk to guys. I just think, like, I don't know about you guys, but, like, I think of, like, I really am proud of all the work that we've done at the athletic, throughout the last two and a half years of not being around these guys face to face all the time. But I also think all the time about how many really cool stories that we probably have no idea happened that we could have written about. And now we're going to get that opportunity to really tell those stories. And, you know, when you work at the athletic, we have that avenue with just an limited amount of space and the ability to tell these type of stories. And I just think

it's going to be a really cool experience having, you know, us back in the room. And I think the players are excited about it too. When I was in in, uh, in Vegas the other day with the NHL media tour, like you could tell it was actually refreshing for these guys to sit there face to face with with writers again and talk. And they all talked about how they can't wait to actually not have to go in front of a phone or a computer and do interviews from now on after games. Even Austin Matthew said it, which was, you know, surprising too. Bring the Toronto media. Bring the Toronto media in. Please. Let's do it. You know, you know, but what I also was fascinated by is And you forget this is how many of these young guys, these next generation of players have come

into the league in this pandemic time and didn't even realize that this was a thing that players, that writers actually go in the locker. And, you know, Zegris is like, I had no idea that that was, you know, that that was actually something to happen. So, you know, I think that they're excited as well. We'll give them a couple weeks where they won't be excited. Right. Right. Yeah. Let's see. Yeah, see how many, how many questions we get to ask before they're, they want us back out of the locker rooms. But looking back on the week, obviously some big news. As we get closer to the season, we're actually getting some hockey news. And I thought the biggest news was Nathan McKinnon, eight-year deal, $100.3 million, $12.6 million. Just edged out Connor McDavid for the highest paid

player in the NHL. When I look at this deal, I think it's hard to say that the highest paid player in the NHL is underpaid, but with the assumed ad revenue, I mean, the assumed league revenue going up and the cap going up in the next few years. This really does feel like a steel for the Colorado Avalanche. For the second time in a row, they're going to have Nathan McKinnon, one of the best players in the league on a very team-friendly deal. What did you think when you saw this deal? What was your first reaction, Michael? Um, 100%. And I got to tell you, this came in exactly where I thought it would be. I thought it would be a little above McDavid set a new price now for Austin Matthews. But, but I think Nathan McKinnon, when we got him the other day, and I asked

him point blank for his status. He was on such a role guys the other day. He was so, affable and just almost put on a show for the national writers. And so I took advantage of that. I'm like, hey, what's a status report on your extension talks? And he was as forthcoming as can be. But the one thing he did say is that, look, you could ask from his standpoint very easily for 20% of the cap, the maximum. But he made it very clear it's not going to come close to that.

But look, he felt like he was one of the most underpaid players in the league the last several years. I think his cap hit this year was like a hundred and third in the league, which is just absurd. and I think this made up for it, but I think he still gave a hometown discount, so to speak, to the avalanche, because he wants this core to continue and he wants to be part of that team for life. And there's no doubt Paterson could have gotten more. But I think that they did a really good job. The avalanche paid him up.

And he gets a little above McDavid, which reminded me, by the way, of when Bill Guerin signed Jared Spurgeon to extension here, he gave him like about a $20,000 or $30,000 highest paid over Parisian suitor. and that was well designed there. And I think that's what happened here as well is making the highest paid player in the league, but not blow the avalanche out of the salary structure that they need to be in.

It's like when I asked the athletic for $100 more than Rousseau annually, just to make sure just for a little bragging rights at the Starbucks line there. But what I thought about this deal, obviously there's only a few franchise caliber centers that are out there that, you know, he's well deserved for that money. And with the cap will go up in a couple of years,

it'll be a really good deal. you think about, though, is all the lightning deals that are here, like Braden Point at 9.5 million, Kusrop at 9.5 million, and how those are in age pretty well the next six, seven years. And I've just been, what struck me guys, I don't know what you think is all the eight-year deals have been signed recently, right, the last one. And you wonder, like, obviously, never passed up your first fortune. Something Evan Longoria was told when he was a kid and he signed his first deal with he came into the rookie season. But, like, why not wait for a little bit? You know the cap's going to be. You know what the cap number is going to be. You know what's going to go up.

So, when it's time for that percentage of the cap versus the percentage of the cap now where, you know, it's getting easily locked in. But the player's perspective is kind of curious. I'm right. You guys thought. Yeah. Well, it's projected that the cap's going to really take that big jump up in the summer of 2024, which just happens to be the summer that Austin Matthews is a UFA. So I don't know if he's going to get it done. Obviously, you can get it done earlier.

I don't know if he'll get it done earlier and if they can project that. But it is great timing. I mean, it seems like kind of the highest paid player in the league is. the next star who's up as a UFA and Austin Matthews just happens to be the next one right when that cap is going up. I mean, what do you guys expect out of that? I mean, you know, obviously different agents and different circumstances there, but if he has another 60 goal season or whatever, I mean, you know, he could be looking at 13, 14, 15. The only difference was, you know, here is that McKinnon wanted to make sure that that he fit in and they could keep, you know,

everybody in there and still build a team that could be a perennial Stanley Cup champion, well, Austin do the same thing. You know, Marner's contracts coming up and things like that. And can, you know, is he willing to make that compromise and say, I don't need to blow this completely out of the water here. But as you said, I mean, you know, we have Bill Daley, the deputy commissioner of Lee coming up. And that's, that is one of the questions that I asked him regarding the salary cap and what he expects here in the next two or three years in terms of, you know, when the owners are

essentially paid back here and when we could see this thing really skyrocket. Rocket. Definitely. So you guys mentioned how well these contracts are aging. Speaking of aging, Zadano Chara, P.K.K. Suban, Keith Yandel, all retire in the same week. It was almost, it seemed like it all happened within an hour of each other. It was crazy. All the retirements this year or this week. Zadano Chara set 45. P.K. Suban's only 33. I was a little surprised. I know he's, he's been trying to find a team. Maybe that was, it was kind of a not his choice thing. I don't know. exactly the circumstances of the P.K. Subban, but I guess what was your initial thought? We'll start with Joe when you saw these three Chara, Suban, and Yandall

retire this, which one stands out to you? Well, I mean, obviously, I mean, I never felt so small as I went to the Zanairo for an interview. I ever felt, and I'm six foot tall, and I felt like I was incredibly tiny, a midget, but, like, I, Charra just an incredible career, just one of the toughest players to be around, like, professionally. The reason why, like, I think Pierre Rode was a great piece on him today talking to Chero. and Julian about that 2011 Bruins seemed to won the cup and how instrumental he was into that thing.

I should ask Pat Maroon today, if he always fights the char every game and seems like they play each other. So there's some certain guys that take that on. But for me, I think P.K. Suvines is a fast-ed-ed-in-case. So he could have a really awesome second career, too. Like, this guy is still young. He's so charismatic. And it brings a much-needed personality to the sport

that I hope that I think a lot of players, some younger players, is egresses and the Matthews are bringing to the game. So I think he'll have no shortage of offers, maybe not as any shell side as far as on a blue line, but maybe in TV or stuff like that, because he'd be terrific for that. Yeah, I half expected ESPN to announce him today or something. Yeah. Because the other thing is like, you know, P.K. was the third retirement yesterday. And I thought when he saw that char and Yandel was like almost overshadowing and he'd be like, you know, I think I'll hold off for a day. So I was wondering if the timing was due to something that another announcement coming down the pike here.

but yeah, PK, I think, still has a very long career if he wants it in the NHL in some capacity because he's such an entertaining figure. And I could see him absolutely on one of these panels here in the next little bit. NHL network, if they'll pay them. And obviously ESPN and TNT have those opportunities as well. The TNT entire panel, I believe, is coming back. You know, ESPN clearly could add him. And he's done some work for them before. Charra, you know, you just felt it was coming.

and, you know, he's going to be missed in this game. I mean, what a figure, such a leader, such a classy person to off the ice to talk to. You know, I know I've heard so many stories about him on and off the ice of things that he's done that has been just incredible. That just, I think, shows his true heart and, and, you know, stature as a human. And so I think that's really cool. And obviously, Yandel had an unbelievable career. And at least temporarily is the Iron Man streak. that'll change probably in about eight games, Jesse.

Yeah, I was going to ask you guys about that. So Yandel breaks a streak that's been there for more than 30 years. He broke, obviously, Doug Jarvis's record that was set back in like 1986. It's such a, like to break a streak that had been there for so long, it's like there's so much prestige to that. And then it then gets broken like a couple months later, assuming Phil Castle can get through eight games here in Vegas, we have no reason to believe he won't. I guess does it diminish the streak at all?

all, does it diminish his record? The fact that, I mean, he broke a 30-year record and then it just gets broken right after him. I don't think it diminishes it. I still think in today's day and age, it's an incredible, incredible record. And especially as a defenseman, you know, I mean, you're taking, you know, in today's league where you can't obstruct at all, you are taking hard hits all the time going back to that puck. And I just think it's really, really impressive that he did it. You know, to me, the, the Kessel, is a little bit interesting just because he played that one game last year where he essentially played one shift and left. I think because his wife might have been due if I remember correctly.

But still, to me, I thought that was a little cheesy. To go out there, play one shift just to get the game. I don't know. That one sort of, to me, that more almost diminishes the record of anything. Did Cal Rip can never do that? Did Cal Rip can never go and play one inning and then a couple innings and then pick that second half the game off? I don't know if you did or not. I will say Kessel already has the record if you count playoff games.

And I don't know why we don't count playoff. I feel like playoff games should count more, if anything. Why are we not counting playoff games? Kessel would already have the record if you count all his playoff games in Pittsburgh. By the way, those pictures of Kessel on the golf courts the other day, he looks like he is motivated to play. I mean, he is a lean,

me, and chiseled machine right now. He looks like he's had a great offseason. I'm sure the fact that he had to sign a one-year deal so late, motivated him. This guy loves the game. And I just, it would not shock me if he has a big year and tries to get himself at least a two or three year deal here in the offseason coming up. Yeah, when I was talking to him after he signed, it was very, very clear that he thinks, in Phil Kessel's mind, he's still the Kessel that was lighting up the playoffs in Pittsburgh. And he's like, you know what, being in Arizona, the hockey world kind of forgot about me. And I'm going to prove to

them that like now that I'm back on a team that's in the spotlight, whether Vegas is good or not, we're going to see, but they're definitely in the spotlight. He's ready to show that he's still that same player. It's going to be fun to see. In other news this week, Winnipeg stripped Blake Wheeler of his captaincy. I'd like to ask you guys maybe about that specific situation and more so just have you guys, you guys have covered hockey a lot longer than I have. Have you guys covered a situation where a captaincy was was kind of taken away and not given to somebody else? It was just sort of stripped. And do you think that that can have a negative impact on Winnipeg this year?

I don't think it'll have a negative impact. I mean, they have a lot of issues inside that room, clearly. And, you know, it is very awkward. You know, we talked to Mark Sheifley the other day right after the announcement, and he handled it well. And I think that he is somebody that really feels for Blake in this situation. I covered a situation here in Minnesota where fans want a Miko Kovu's C stripped for about 10 years.

but it never actually happened. The organization never would have done that to him. And it is, I mean, it's such a prideful thing. And now to put Blake in this position as well as, as brave of faces he put it on it the other day with Brick Bonas, it is a really, really interesting situation. And, you know, when Joe Thornton had the captaincy taken away from him in San Jose, did they name Couture right away?

I can't remember. Yeah, I can't remember either. Yeah, I, you know, but, but this. one to, you know, very, very, very odd. And I think that, you know, we've all been hearing rumblings of issues in that room for a while now. And clearly something manifested itself here this summer. Obviously, a really bold move. I have a bonus off the bat, too. I guess if you want to take control of something or, if there is, like there are people thought some problems in that room, maybe a shake up, I mean, it couldn't get any worse, I guess, right? Like, you want to be

sure this will allow other guys who maybe were not as assertive as a leadership role come in and be a bigger part of that group. And I think I've learned covering the game. I know Mike has too. Like, not just the captain who's a leader in the room, right? There's so many teams that are the best teams, the championship teams, are led by committee. And the guy who wears the C is, like the Stamcoises, but the McDonnas and those guys of the

world are really kind of the glue that I go between the coaching staff and the team. So, yeah, I think that could be a way to kind of get more depth in that leadership group. and guys stepped up to me didn't think about before. Yep. And we have that here in Minnesota. I mean, you know, Spurgeon is the captain, but Flino and Dumbah are right there joined at the hip and the wild have so many other leaders in that room with guys like Gologoski and Zuccarello and players like that. You know, Hartman, Ericksonek.

And, you know, even though they have a captain, there is a really defined leadership group on this team. And I'm sure that is clearly what Rick Bonas is trying to do. They're there in Winnipeg. And, you know, we heard it. We talked about it last week, Jesse, what John Tortorello was doing with Philadelphia and making it very clear that there's some leadership issues there that need to be addressed. And, you know, he's going to go in there and tear some pain off the wall as well. Yeah, I joke in Vegas, they actually collect captains like they're like Pokemon cards.

They trade a patch ready way, but they still have Stone, Eichel and Petrangelo on the roster. Speaking of Vegas, we're going to get to your conversation, Michael, with Bill Daly. I want to get your thoughts, just kind of your biggest takeaways from Media Day. You got to talk to a lot of the league star players. Just a quick recap, what stood out to you overall? Yeah, I think from my perspective, too, because it's, you know, look, when you're, when you get tunnel vision and cover one team, you really, you know, you really cover one team.

And especially during the pandemic where you didn't get the ability to go into visitors' locker room. And so this was really a learning lesson for me on some players in the lead that I didn't know either were as charismatic as they were or incredible quotes. It's like Max Dolmy is one where, you know, Max has been, it's not somebody, you know, he was in Arizona for a long time. Actually, the Wild tried to trade for him once, him and Christian DeVorec. They tried to trade a needer writer and Zucker there, and it actually fell apart. Probably a good thing for the Wild at that point.

But, you know, Max was unbelievable to talk to. He was one of my favorite quotes. Thomas Hurdle, oh my goodness, is that kid just like a bubbly, fun interview? I mean, just the nicest guy in the world. That was hilarious. McKinnon put on a show. You know who did a really, it was really fun to talk to. It was Mark Stone there, Jesse. He was outstanding. I thought Vasilevsky was great. Joe and I were working on a goalie tier story. He was, he was tremendous. But then like, you know, some of the young kids, I mean, obviously,

I've talked to Trevor Zegrois on the phone before and he's been outstanding, but like Nick Suzuki, you know, tremendous. There were a lot of really cool quote shifely put on a show. So from my perspective, it was just, it was fun to be there and be in that perspective and be able to throw a bunch of topics at these players and see them handle it with such, such ease and plum and, you know, as nice as can be. Guys like Matthews were awesome. You know who's really shocked me was Morgan Riley. He's one of the most thoughtful players that I've ever interviewed. Like every single thing he said is just well thought out, well said, and it was really cool. That's awesome. It's cool to get back to normal. I'm hearing all these stories from everybody. I mean, I,

it's, we almost forgot what it's like. But glad to be back there. Getting ready for camp. All right. So we're going to go to break. And when we come back, we're going to get to Michael Rousseau and Sean Jantili's conversation with NHL deputy commissioner, Bill Daly. So don't go anywhere. Welcome back to the athletic hockey show, Sean Jantilly and Michael Rousseau,

coming to you with the deputy commissioner of the National Hockey League, Bill Daly. Bill, the last time I talked to you in Florida at the GM's meetings, we talked a lot about your Miami Dolphins. And a huge start to their season. We're doing this, I should say, before they play game too, but want to know that. this season against the New England Patriots. Yeah, it was a good day in South Florida. I actually was down at the game, so it was fun to watch the dolphins perform.

I think their offense will get better. Are we like cautious optimism about Tua? Always cautious optimism. I'm a glass half full guy, not a glass half empty. From all appearances, he had a really strong training camp. So we'll see how the full season plays out. Yeah, Bill, it really short offseason, it feels like, right? I mean, you know, when you have free agency on July 13th in the draft just a couple of days before that,

it sure feels like we're just right around the corner for the season. And what has this offseason been like for you and the rest of the people at the league office? So a little bit shorter, you know, but we've been dealing with that now for three years, really, shortened off seasons. And it was only two weeks shorter than it normally is. And, you know, the good news is we're kind of back on track with training camp start. starting next week for veterans next week. You know, we'll start the season in early October and ended it mid-June and we'll get back on

cycle where free agency starts on July 1st. Was there, was there ever any point during the regular season where you were worried about getting back on the normal schedule? Was there? Well, I was, there were points during this past regular season where I was worried about finishing the season. You know, certainly December, January time period with the Omicron. variant, you know, had most of our teams decimated. You know, we had a, you had to shut down some

teams. We had to take a longer Christmas break than we typically take. It wiped out any possibility being able to participate in the Olympics, which obviously was disappointing to the players. So it was a tough season to get through, but we got through it. And I think by the playoffs, I had the first real sense that things were back to normal. I mean, we had full buildings, you know, 100% capacity, 100% plus of capacity. Fans excited about being in the buildings again and not concerned health and safety-wise, which I think for a little while there was some trepidation last year and coming to buildings

and being with crowds. I think that all had dissipated by the time we got to the playoffs and we had a spectacular playoff tournament on the ice. And I think it's a great jumping off point for this season. We're coming to you from Vegas, the gambling capital of the world. And it does feel like the league in the last. couple years, start to embrace that. I mean, having betting partners and things like that, where do you see that going? And I know it's always the age-old question, especially from

beat writers, is when do we get some actual injury specifics from the NHL? So, I mean, obviously it's a brave new world for all sports leagues. We're all dealing with the realities of sports betting and it being prevalent. You know, not universal, but prevalent. And, you know, we've viewed it as an opportunity to try to create engagement with fans, more fans and, you know, different fans, maybe people who haven't necessarily watched the game religiously in the past. And, you know, we're using it as a vehicle for that, I think, with some success. You know, but it's, it's a reality that's going to continue to grow, and we're going to have to be able to be nimble and adjust with it as it grows. You know, get asked the end.

injury disclosure question a lot. I can't tell you that any of our sports betting partners have come to us and said this is something that we want you to do. So at this point, I think the concern for player health and safety kind of trumps any kind of of sports betting connection on that issue. So I don't see it changing in the near term. We'll see how it continues to play out over time. obviously ad revenue has been the big thing that has been the big topic lately uh you know right there on the right side of the crest um i do find it funny that fans go nuts about this stuff when there's giant ads everywhere around a rank around arena and and they don't seem to have problems

with that but i mean obviously this is another way to to you know continue to grow this game grow hr which uh goes right into the players pocketbooks as well yeah for sure um we think it's a very valuable opportunities obviously one that we had been resistant to taking the step for a long time. I think the pandemic and ways of driving revenue and retaining revenue became paramount when we otherwise didn't have fans in the building and weren't generating any revenues. So it became a much more viable option at that point in time and something our owners embraced when we opened that door.

And I think it's obviously going to be a significant driver of revenue. Do you, like, how many teams would you say are not going to have ads on their jerseys? And when you say that, and if there are a number of teams, is it more that they just right now, it's a competitive market with baseball selling theirs, that they just can't sell it? It's nobody really taking a stand? Well, I don't think it's a case of teams not being able to sell it. I think they can sell it. I think the question is, are they getting fair value for the real estate they're giving up on the jerseys?

So I think a lot of our clubs will be a lot, probably a majority of our clubs. will be cautious in terms of agreeing to that first deal because they know it kind of sets a market. And so they value that opportunity one way and you wait until the market delivers somebody who values it the same way. Is it just setting that number just as simple as allowing the market set it? Or are there other considerations that are coming up with a number that works for everybody when it comes to that real estate? I mean, obviously at the end of the day, the clubs make their own decisions and they will do. a deal if they think it's it's worth doing that deal. Having said that, I mean, there is a market out there, right? I think, you know, the terms, the general terms and financial terms of those deals are kind of

out there in a matter of public record to a certain extent. So clubs know or have an idea, certainly, of what that should generate. And, you know, it's probably market specific too. So they've got that expertise. They factor that in. And so I'm sure they all go into the market with a number of, this is, you know, we're not going to sell it for below X, whatever X is. We have another jersey question. This is the Jersey talk portion of the, of the podcast. We're seeing teams release the reverse retro jerseys. The designs are starting to trickle out whether, whether officially or not. Not designed. Uh-huh. Are you, are you happy with how that process has unfold?

it in general with, you know, as we're a month off from the season, we're still some meat left on the bone in terms of the rollout? So I haven't familiarized myself of what exactly our announcement plan is. I know this week there was some activity. I don't like leaks, certainly, and that's concerning on some level and trying to understand and manage how those happen are, you know, something we have to do, right? Our clubs get a little annoyed when, when their jerseys are out in the public market with before they've even launched them. So, you know, it's something that every sports league has issues and to deal with and has to deal with this issue. It's unfortunate, but it's the reality of, you know, what we do.

Let's turn our attention to the Hockey Canada investigation. I know earlier this summer you were hoping that you would have some sort of resolution going into training camp. Obviously, training camp, the day this podcast comes out is the day that training camp opens. I take it that timeline is a little bit off. Where are you with the investigation and where it's Hockey Canada? Yeah, I don't expect that the investigation will be complete or that we'll have a report by the time training camp's open. So, you know, we want to make sure we do this right. and we get, you know, all the information we need.

I will say that we've had full cooperation from the players and the process is ongoing. But I don't anticipate there'll be any resolutions or reports or things to talk about prior to the start of training camp. I know you just had the rookie orientation, you know, I believe in Washington, right? Yes. You know, what is the message maybe to today's NHL player and person coming in in terms of the culture, and trying to maybe change some issues that have been maybe underlying for some time in hockey and in society. I mean, I would say typically at our rookie orientation program, we talk about the importance of thinking through things before acting. That obviously was a recurring theme at this year's event.

We had a couple of new presenters who presented some new materials. I did get a sense, I have to tell you, that the, the, class as a whole. I think there was more than 100 players there were very engaged. They looked like they were interested in what they were hearing and processing it, whereas I can tell you, in some rookie orientations in the past, it looks like they're checking the box and waiting to get out of there. I didn't get that sense this year, and I think a lot of that probably has to do with everything that's kind of happened off the ice and things that are in the news. And I think there's a newfound seriousness of, you know, players understanding that their careers depend on their good behavior.

Yeah. You know, I remember when I sat down with you in March, one of the big topics that I had with you was the Russia situation and what could happen potentially if players went back there. And I know a lot of NHL teams cautioned their players not to go back there. And then coincidentally, Karel Kepresov wound up in, you know, basically a political ping pong game. First of all, how involved were you in helping the wild, you know, come to some sort of resolution to help them get out? And are you concerned that players after this season are going to now go back or should they use Carrel situation as a bit of a learning lesson? So, I mean, knock on wood, what I'd say the positive part of this is other than the one Flyers goaltender, I don't think we encountered major issues in getting our Russian players back to North America. So that's a good thing.

In terms of the league's involvement, you know, other than being briefed fully and kind of knowing status, there was really no direct involvement in any way. You know, I don't really know how to handicap how that issue evolves going forward because, you know, the world's an uncertain place and I don't know what's going to happen in the conflict and I don't know what's going to happen in the conflict and I don't know what's going to happen. overall, you know, international relations between us and Russia. So it's more of a, in some respects, making sure you're plugged in, you know what's going on and reacting appropriately as events transpire. Final couple of minutes with you, Bill, you know, World Cup, what's the latest with that? And on the similar subject, you know, right now, like, when do you have to make a decision if Russia is going to be involved? Obviously right now, I would assume they're not. When do you have to make that. First, I got to think you make the decision on the World Cup, but then in terms of

Russia. Yeah, I think, I think you're ordering is correct. We probably, we're working on a regular basis on World Cup issues with the Players Association and with the international hockey community, whether it be the individual federations or the double IHF. And so we're working through those issues. We're also out in the market with respect to some of the commercial aspects of the World Cup. So progress is being made. I would imagine at some point in the relatively near future will have to be in a position where we announce some decisions as to kind of what's been finalized and what needs to be done, continue to be done. And Russia participation or not is probably one of those decisions we need to make. I don't feel any

like necessary time pressure currently on that issue. But obviously something has to be resolved in the relative near term. By the way, last I looked at the critical date calendar wasn't out. Is that coming out on the horizon in terms of everything? Yeah, yeah, it is. There are a couple of open issues that we still needed input from the Players Association on. I expect, obviously it'll be out before the start of the regular season. I had promised one of your colleagues that I thought it was coming out this week,

but I don't think on reflection it is. I'm guessing I know who the colleague is. Did he just come back from the cottage after like two months away? But you have a lot of colleagues who do that. Yeah, that's true. Yeah. So I haven't gotten back to him yet. I hope an answer.

By the way, 2025 is still the estimation of when this cap could really start to take a big jump? So I would say, obviously we exceeded our expectations this year on revenue and even our forecast, which is done fairly late in the season, we exceeded pretty dramatically. So a lot of the escrow balance actually got paid back this year, certainly more of it than we had originally projected. I think the most likely answer is we're tying the cap to revenues again in the summer of 24. which would mean one more year of a million dollar increase in the summer of 23, and then a tide cap starting in 24. So I think that's the most likely scenario.

Interesting. Just by the way, you know, Sean and I have had the pleasure all morning in this weekend talking to a lot of your great young players in this game. I mean, you know, talking to guys like Zagris and the Hughes and the Chucks and all these kids. I mean, how just excited are you right now about where the game's not just the product on the ice, but the personalities are coming down the pike here. I think both. And we were just having a similar conversation about, you know, how impressed I am with the players who are here and my conversations I've had with them.

They're, you know, really good young men and obviously great, talented athletes. I do think we are starting to see players be more sure. more personality, be more of themselves, be open with being themselves, and less of a regimented mentality of kind of team only, nothing outside the dressing room kind of mentality. So I think it's actually been refreshing to see and exciting to see. And I think it broadens the appeal in our sport when players have personalities. No doubt about that. And it makes it easier for us to write about. So we appreciate that. Thank you, everybody. Yeah.

By the way, what's your game of choice in Vegas? Do you have a game of choice? You got to. I'm not a big Vegas game player. I was saying when I do, I usually am on the roulette table. But I come to Vegas. I love the atmosphere here. I love the restaurants. I love the shows. My wife and I both do that. So I don't actually do much gambling. Yeah, but still a lot of fun in this awesome place. It is a lot of fun. Every major league event should be in Vegas. That's the rule from now. Actually, one of the questions I got today, have you thought about? putting the All-Star game every year in Vegas. He said, actually, we haven't, but it's not a bad suggestion.

No, absolutely. Hey, Bill, as always, I appreciate it. And, you know, lots of luck getting through the season fully in a perfect time. No pandemic-related issues or anything like that. That'd be the goals. We no longer have to, like, email you and ask you, like, double-check on, like, protocols and things like that, all that just, oh, man, it doesn't feel like the last two and a half years.

Yeah, the last two and a half years, Total nightmare. So, hey, thanks a lot, Bill. Thank you, Michael. Thank you, Sean. That is Bill Daly, and we'll go back to the athletic hockey show now. All right. So that was Bill Daly with Michael and Sean. Mike, I guess what's, what stood out to you most about that conversation? You guys obviously covered a lot of topics and Daly was pretty open with most of them. Yeah, besides him being a huge Miami Dolphins fan, and we recorded that at 1 and 0, now they are 2 and had an unbelievable comeback the other day. So at like seven touchdowns. Yeah, I immediately sent him a text after that.

Yeah, you know, there were, there were, you know, myriad topics that Sean and I talked to, to Bill Daly about. And, you know, one of the big ones for me was this Hockey Canada story. You know, this scandal is, is just disgusting. But there's an underlying thing there that there just seems to be some sort of culture going on, not probably just in hockey Canada, but in all these type of teams that they just, you know, that need to be addressed. And one of the big things that Bill talked about was that, rookie orientation that they just had in Arlington, Virginia, and how he a lot of times will look at

these players that come in there. They bring 100, you know, entry level type players in there every single year. And he says a lot of times during these seminars, he'll see that they're all looking at the clock or staring at the wall or playing with their phones and sort of want to get out of there. And he said that he really felt this time that they were absolutely focused on listening to the speakers that were there. And he thinks that it's not, that it, that it is not. a coincidence that it has to do with a lot of the stories that have been out in the public here the last year or so. And so I think that is, um, that was one of the most interesting things he talked about. Obviously, as you all heard, we talked about ad revenues. You know, I, and as I said to

Bill during the thing, I always find it funny. Like, you know, the, we all put out, um, on Twitter pictures of the teams that we cover their jerseys and the, the crests that they have on the right side. And, and I get that, you know, there's something really special about hockey jerseys. Um, and people don't want them unclean, so to speak, especially the original six markets. But I always find it funny when fans go crazy about this stuff. Like one, it's only going to help your team get potential players because, you know, that's part of hockey relay revenue. It's going to raise the cap eventually, obviously minimal when you're getting $4 million

or so per ad. But to me, this is just part of the maturation process. And we all go to these games and we see ads here and there and all over the ice and superimposed on glass and around the boards. And we all just accept that as common. And here they finally put an ad on it and people are going nuts that this is like the worst thing in the history of hockey. And I thought that was interesting that he talked about the teams right now. There are teams that haven't sold these ads and it is a competitive market right now and they've set a price and they're not going to go lower than that price.

National is one of those teams, I believe, that haven't sold a team because they just can't get it sold at the price that they want to get it at right now. So that was the other one. People are crying over spilled milk. Yeah, exactly. And then, you know, the World Cup to me is really, fascinating. We talked a lot about Russia on this, and obviously, you know, Joe will be involved in this soon when he gets here to Minnesota. But, you know, I dealt with the Karel Kaprisoff scary incident this year where the wild really were frightened about one, his safety back in Russia, but two, how they were going to get him back to North America. And right now, Russia is not part of any international competition. The NHL would like to have a World Cup in 2024 right now. If there is a World Cup, clearly Russia is not going to be a part of it. And we get a status update from that on Bill Daly, from Bill Daly as well. one of the one of the things that stood out to me aside from the ones you already mentioned was and and we kind of touched on it earlier in the podcast was the fact that the NHL made more revenue than they expected and and when I heard bill say we already paid off a lot of the escrow to me that was like I mean it's I obviously it's not my money it's I'm not worried about the financials I cover the hockey hockey the sport but that just felt so good to hear him say that that they're paying off the escrow because the last couple years it's felt so doom and gloom. for this league. Like, we never thought this league was going under, but man, it didn't look good there

for a little while. When you hear the numbers of the amount of money that had to be paid back to the owners, and it's like, man, are these guys ever going to, are the salary cap ever going to go up? And we've obviously seen the ramifications it's had on the league. I mean, half the teams in the league are in salary cap trouble, even teams that aren't like, usually it's the couple contenders that are really going for it. I mean, you see teams that aren't even going for it, don't even have a chance to contend and they're in salary cap trouble. So when I, when I hear him say they paid off a lot more escrow than they thought they were going to. It sounds like the league, the ESPN deal, the TV deals, everything seems to be going in the right direction. It just seemed like after this

conversation, I feel a lot more optimistic about the NHL's immediate financial future than I did prior to listening to Bill. Yeah. And then though, you get a reality check of the look, you look at the structure of Nathan McKinnon's contract. And you're like, all right, why is you getting signing bonuses all of these years? But in year four, it's mostly salary. Why? Because the team wanted lockout protection. So like there's always that business angle, right, that eventually is coming down the pike. And hopefully we never have to deal with that. But you're absolutely right.

I mean, that was the one thing that Bill Daly talked about on here is that the hope is that the cap could actually maybe go a little up, go up, you know, appreciably well before the original estimation, which was, I think, 2025. And so we'll see where that goes. But you're right. For a league that had to close its doors at one point, play in bubbles, play in front of minimal fans in many, many markets, especially north of the border, for them to start. to now get back to a healthy circumstance is great for the entire product on the ice and off. It's perfect for the way where we are in the game now.

All the set of young stars are out here. This is one at the golden age of hockey, I don't think. But I don't think the last four or five years, you're seeing some of these stars on elevates themselves in the playoffs have been so amazing to cover the last number of years. So I think the state of the game as far as on ice product is as good as it's been in a while. So to have that match up with what you're seeing on TV

and the money-wise. And that makes it for a perfect storm of what they hope that I can grow. So even more next couple of years. Definitely, definitely. Very good news. Awesome. And that was a great interview, Michael. All right.

When we come back from break, we're going to talk PTOs. You've got some interesting names that signed PTOs. Going to be playing in camps this week. We're going to touch on those when we come back. So don't go anywhere. All right, guys. So we saw three big names signed PTOs across the league. Eric Stahl signed in Florida, Sunny Milano in Calgary,

and Jake Frattanan in Edmonton. And we'll start with Eric Stahl. You know him well, Michael. Obviously, a guy who has been a very productive player in this league. He took a big step back in terms of production last year. But now he's going to a team that's got plenty of offensive firepower. They put the puck in the net. What do you expect from him in Florida?

Yeah, I mean, he definitely took a step back in firepower last year because he didn't play. So he played in Iowa and the Olympics. And that, I think, is what the biggest thing, Jesse, is like, he is motivated. I think he is really, you know, I was talking to Jordan Stahl when we were in Vegas. the other day. And I think they were all miffed that he could not get a job last year. You know, he played on the fourth line in Montreal that went to the Stanley Cup final against the Lightning. And, you know, Joe, that lion, you know, Corey Perry and Erstal actually did really well for the Canadians at that playoff run. And then all of a sudden he just can't even

get a job in the league, even a PTO last year. And so he had to go to Iowa to prepare for the Olympics. He played in the Olympics. Obviously, that didn't go well for Team Canada. And now he's back and he's trying to get back on. Jordan was actually on the 18th, pole at Pele Beach when Mark Stahl signed a one-year deal with Florida and that and Eric agreed to the PTO. And so I hope it works out for Eric. That's a great place for him. That team, you know, we, we saw last year Joe Thornton went down there and made an impact in that room at least. And maybe Eric could do the same thing. And so I hope it works out for Eric Stahl because this game is greater with Eric Stahl in it. Joe, you've seen in Tampa, you've seen what a veteran player can

just little pieces, small. I feel like Florida is kind of where Tampa Bay was in terms of the talents there. This team is obviously good enough to win a Stanley Cup in terms of just the guys on the ice. What do you think a guy like that? You've seen it in Tampa. What can a guy like that do for a team that just needs a little help to get over the top? Well, they can do a tremendous amount. I mean, I think in Tampa here, I don't know if they win the Cups of Paderoon

doesn't get signed in a contract. And he's not the start player on the team, but he helped change the culture and the dynamic in the personality of the room. You know, Luke Shen came in. And he wasn't a big name player, but he had that. that personality is like that too. You know, so I think Chatt and Kirk was the same way. Like, they kind of helped Tampa Bay stop living in the past

and what happened, you know, getting swept in the first round and got them over that mental hurdle. And a lot of what these playoff teams that win championships are is because they're so close and they sacrifice for each other, they play for each other. And they have a, and then basically the players run the shell. Like the coaches are really important. And John Cooper is a terrific coach.

But he always says that the best teams are kind of like player driven or, you know, if there's a problem in the room, the players squash it. So I think having a, I mean, I'm saying, saying that Eric Stoller had in the room, but having those kind of character guys that can have that cachet and have the track record to be able to say something and people listen can help. But I think last year, you know, obviously mentally there was a big difference in the Lightning and

Panther series. You know, the Will was more there for Tampa. They had the experience. They had the guile. And, you know, Florida just wasn't ready for it. And so maybe add in a little bit more of that will help them. Definitely. Mike, you mentioned shocking that Stahl couldn't get a job last year.

I was shocked that Sunny Milano couldn't get a real contract this year. He's still a relatively young player. I think he's 25 or 26. He had 14 goals, 20 assists last year. I thought he was a big part of Trevor Zegro. We obviously watched Trevor Zegro. He was must watch TV. And every time I watched Ducks game,

Sonny Milano stood out to me. I was surprised he only ended up with a PTO, were you? Very surprised. Although, you know, when I talked to GMs about him all summer long, a lot of them just sort of scoffed at him. And I really never got a sense of why for a young guy that's skilled. I don't know if there's just this belief out there from the old school jams that he's his hot dog on the ice you know he's the one that that made the play to

zeggris on the one play i mean when i talked to zeggris and asked him out milano in in in uh Vegas last week that was obviously before he agreed to the to the pto um north of the border but but like zegris was shocked and you know and he said the one thing he'll say is that he worked out a lot with milano this off season malano was really you know trying to pick his spot and and handling it pretty well but i'm sure deep down he had to be very mystified that he couldn't get a job. And, you know, the wild, at least, they went out and they gave a flyer to a guy like Sam Steele on a one-year deal, similar situation.

And I don't know why Milano just couldn't get a guaranteed contract somewhere. Maybe there was a situation where he was offered a one-year deal somewhere, and he said, you know what, this would be a better opportunity. Maybe that team didn't make sense to him. But very, very surprising to me that Milano didn't get a job. And lastly, Vertan, we'll start with you, Joe. What were your thoughts when you see Vertan and Edmonton? I don't know if it's overblowing it, the fact that Evander Cain gets his contract and then they signed Vertan in the very next year.

Are they collecting potential problem players in Edmonton? Or I guess what was your initial thought when you see the Vortan and PTO in Edmonton? Yeah. It was a little bit of a surprise. And like, obviously, I don't know the guy. Don't know him, but you can only hear from the stories and what's been written and what's been out there. So I'd have to imagine that that had to have been a conversation that they had as a staff there of like, what do we bring him in? do we go after him?

And obviously they must have done their vetting. But I can tell you for a lot of different teams, like when Evander King was open and available, like for example, him, like he would help any team, any team's top six, right? But a lot of teams are like, I don't know if the other parts of that, what he brings would affect our room.

So obviously he did well there and had success. But yeah, I was a little surprised at that point. Mike, your thoughts? Yeah, and the difference here is like, Evander Kane can help. I don't even know if her 10 and can help. You know, but hey, I mean, they're giving them obviously a tryout, we'll see. You know, they have too many players as is have to, you know, we all think at some point

Pili Arvi is going to get traded. But very, you know, I just, sometimes I just don't know, you know, what goes on in front offices when they talk about, you know, players. And just sometimes the potential problem, the black eye that you put on an organization by even bringing in a guy on a PTO is just not worth it. And again, I know. he was found not guilty, you know, in the Supreme Court in BC, but the reality is, is that there's a lot of, there's a lot of blotches there on this kid's record and to bring him in and, you know, put this,

you know, bad publicity, essentially on an organization right before training camp on a year that you want to take a next step. I just don't know what the worth is there, you know, you can't tell me that there isn't a player that could help you better out there or eventually that you could acquire than just putting this, you know, in an organization. I'm not, I'm not saying that guys don't deserve new chances and, and things like that, but I can tell you a lot of teams in this league had the chance to go even bring for Tannen in on a PTO and didn't even give it a second thought. And for Evanston to do it, um, I just think is pretty surprising and just I don't know why it's worth, uh, just the horrendous press that they've given, they've put on their organization the last couple

days. Yeah, yeah, no, definitely. Well, it's been great chatting with you guys. Uh, it's fun to see this duo that's going to be a Minnesota. I said it on Twitter. It's a good time to be a Minnesota wild fan. They've got the dream team, Joe Smith and Michael Russo in Minnesota. Jesse, don't you think, I know this is only my second time on the athletic show, but I feel like since I'm on here and Joe's the rookie, that we need to do something to just integrate them, initiate them into it. And I think one way would be to have him sing some karaoke right now, don't you think we should, Jeff, can we play a little Jesse's girl or something to have Joe play us out? I don't know.

God, what's wrong over to see, guys? Gangster Paradise. That's what you sung in Vancouver, right? In Montreal. Yeah, Montreal. Sorry. And was it a run around suit too?

I can't remember what I did too. It was a lot of singing like that. We'll have to do karaoke this weekend in Minneapolis. And then we'll fly the recording that we dove into. It's more of a natural feel when music's playing and you're in the vibe, right? Yeah. I knew that Joe was special in karaoke. We're at the Eastern Conference Final, the height of stress in the Eastern Conference Final.

And John Cooper in his press conference starts cracking jokes about Joe and karaoke. That's when I knew that the Lightning were just going to be fine. And John didn't come out all uptight. He's already just cracking jokes after a loss and all that type of thing. He saw me singing Nashville as Wanda Be, so also been a member of a show. Yeah. Putting on a show. Awesome.

Well, that'll do it for us. another edition of the Wednesday Roundtable. You can follow us on your favorite podcast platform, and don't forget to leave a rating and a review. Get an annual subscription to The Athletic for just $1 for six months when you visit Theathletic.com slash hockey show. The Athletic Hockey Show returns Thursday with Ian Mendez and Down Goes Brown, and Friday, Sean Gentilly and Haley-Salvian debut

a new athletic hockey show with their guest, Jack Campbell, of the Edmonton Oilers. For Russo and Smith, I'm Jesse Granger. The Roundtable returns next week. Thank you.