The Athletic Hockey Show - NHLPA asks for strict protocols in Vegas for all-star weekend ahead of the 2022 Winter Olympics in Beijing, Stanley Cup contender NY Islanders nightmare season continues and who will be the next NHL coach to lose his job?

Episode Date: November 24, 2021

On the Wednesday roundtable with Rob Pizzo of CBC Sports and Jesse Granger and Sara Civian from the Athletic, we discuss the NHL players Associations desire to tighten COVID-19 protocols in Vegas during all-star weekend, ahead of many of the all-star players then moving on to Beijing to compete in the Winter Olympics. Our panel also discusses the Islanders struggles on the ice and in the medical room, plus the unstoppable Carolina Hurricanes, and if Connor McDavid can begin another lengthy point streak, with his 17 game streak being snapped Monday night vs Dallas.Dom Luszczyszyn - our analytics expert at the Athletic stops by to discuss NHL third jerseys, gambling and his awesome 'What If' column, answering hypothetical things that will never happen in the NHL.This week in our twitter segment, we offer our analysis on Team USA and Team Canada's Olympic jerseys and who we think the next head coach will be to lose his job, in the NHL. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

What's going on, everybody? Welcome to the Athletic Hockey Show, the Wednesday Roundtable Edition. I am Rob Beasel from CBC Sports, joined as always by Sarah Sivion, covers the Hurricanes for the Athletic, and Jesse Granger, who covers the Golden Knights for the Athletic, but we really talk about everything here. Don't you guys. How are you?

Still on the road. I'm still trucking along. It's been like 14 days, and I'm in Seattle, and it's beautiful, and the arena is incredible. How are you, Jesse? I'm doing pretty good here in Vegas. This is my first road trip of the season that I am not on with the team. So it's been a nice little kind of break for me.

We got a lot of stuff to talk about and a lot of it deals with, well, let's call them COVID protocols and possibilities and Olympics and everything else. We're going to hit that. We're going to talk about the islanders who are struggling in every way, shape and form right now. We're going to talk streaks. There's some streaks that came to an end, some streaks that are still going and teams are riding streaks. And later on, Domus Schishen from the Athletic is going to join us. And we're going to talk about giant ducks, ugly-ass third jerseys, and some gambling, too. And Jesse, I know you are in the heart of the gambling world, but the heart of the gambling

world isn't the only place where people are gambling on sports anymore. It's kind of weird to think about gambling just now being so open and out there as opposed to just, you know, Sin City. That's where you make your bets. I can remember just like a few years ago when I would see a sports abetting line on the broadcast, whether it's UFC or football or wherever you'd see like minus 115. And in Vegas, we would like cheer. Like, oh my gosh, look at that.

It's so cool. And now it's everywhere. That's the way us Canadians deal with any time we get mentioned on some sitcom. It's like, yay, look at us. Let's get right into it. Pierre LeBrun's piece on The Athletic this morning talked about the NHLPA's desire to kind of Titan protocols at the All-Star break in Vegas because right after that is when a lot of players are scheduled to head to Beijing for the Olympics.

I bring this up for a couple of reasons. We know, and it's been pretty well documented, it was negotiated in the CBA. Players wanted to go to the Olympics. NHL said, we'll do our best. They came up with an agreement with the IIHF, but there was an out clause that said If something goes wrong with COVID, if we feel our players are in danger, we can pull out. And they have until January 10th to do so. We've already seen the Ottawa senators lose some games.

Well, lose some games postponed. The islanders are possibly on the verge of that again. Guys, are we legitimately looking at a possibility where the NHL pulls the shoot, Jesse? Yeah, I mean, and the Golden Knights were close themselves. I heard from a couple sources that they've had so many injuries and then they had three guys go on COVID protocol this week. And they were like a test or two away from possibly having games to postpone. It seems like it's an inevitability that eventually another team will have a postponement. So you wonder how much like how much the NHL is hoping to get these guys out of the Olympics.

That's really what it comes down to. It's does the NHL, like obviously the NHL doesn't prefer that they go to the Olympics. Are they willing to rip away the one thing that they gave the players in that negotiation? It's going to be interesting to see. Yeah. Interesting is the right word. I feel like there needs to be so many contingency plans. And then even then, something might happen where something goes awry.

And I think if we're still in a pandemic, COVID is still floating around. And we're going to test people who are vaccinated. then there's a high chance that people who get vaccinated are still going to get a breakthrough case. And we're seeing that all around the league with basically 100% vaccination rate. And it's like a lot of these guys aren't having side effects, but if they're going to still test,

then they're going to show positive sometime, you know? Here's the thing, though, guys, we're in November. Late November. The Olympics are early February. I spoke to Doug, I'm strong for CBC Sports this past week, and I flat out asked them, are there two team Canada is being built right now? The one, you know, comprised of NHL players and the one comprised of people who are not in the national hockey league.

He said, absolutely. He said, but hockey Canada is doing the other team. He said, I'm only worrying about NHL players. And if all of a sudden the NHL decides before January 10th to pull the shoot and say, we're not going, he kind of cleanses, washes his hands and says, it's been nice working with you guys, but I'm going back to just being the St. Louis Blues GM. And hockey Canada will take care of that. January 10th is less than a month from the opening ceremonies of the games.

I mean, then what happens? And here's my question. What happens with the NHL schedule? Are they making up games? What happens then? Right. That's kind of what I was wondering the most is, okay, so they had this schedule before the season. Remember, they had two schedules.

They sent out two different schedules to the GMs and said, here's the one with players going to the Olympics. Here's the one without players going to the Olympics. The problem is, if you were going to go. to the schedule without the players going to the Olympics, they were going to spread these games out so that they weren't so condensed. Not quite as condensed as last year during the 56th game, but this season is definitely a more condensed schedule because of that month off. You can't suddenly then just say, okay, well, we've played half of them. Let's go back to the old schedule because that's not how it works.

Some of those games have already been played. I'm wondering if they're just going to push up those games in March and April. Are they just going to push them up a month and just move them up? And then the question becomes, what about all these fans? Like, in Vegas, I, like, we get so many road fans here. I guess maybe that's why it's top of mind for me. But people plan vacations around these games. And people buy plane tickets, hotel tickets, game tickets.

And you can't just suddenly tell them, hey, that vacation you had planned for March 3rd. It's now February 2nd. Good luck. That for me is the number one reason. I feel like, unfortunately, this just isn't going to happen. Yeah. And, you know, Rinks aren't. just sitting idle when a hockey team's not playing there. You know what I mean? There are concerts,

there are events. There are a lot of things that are going on that you just can't switch it around and say, okay, we're now going to go to option B of the schedule. I just wonder, because the out clause has always been the one thing that kind of got me, they said they are going to try their best. The NHL will try their best. That's so subjective, guys. Right. What does that mean? You could say I see people go to the gym and say they tried their best. Trust me, they ain't trying their best. I mean, is the NHL. And the other thing is, if you have multiple postponements,

that's going to lead to the NHL possibly exercising this option. Who does those postponements? The NHL. So are we not seeing like the NHL going, okay, let's get three or four more teams postponed here. And then we can not go. Sarah, what do you think? Yeah, no, I think you make good.

I totally agree. I just, I feel like I just have a bad feeling about it because there's so much that could happen. And I'm not going to say the NHL is looking for a way out, but it's not not looking for a way out. Yeah. And you got to wonder where the IOC, too, where the IOC stands on this thing. Right. But Sarah, you mentioned that like, okay, so you have a bad feeling about them making it to the Olympics and them allowing these players. But then also there's the scheduling conflicts. So what happens? So let's say just for argument's sake, the players aren't going to the Olympics. What do you do with the schedule? Hang out.

Everybody's just off for a month. That seems like horrible for the NHL. Or is that makeup two weeks where the games that were postponed all get chubbed into that two or three week period? I don't know. Just nothing but Ottawa senators hockey for a month. Senators, Islanders, possibly the Vegas, Golden Knights. Yeah, I mean, logistically, it seems crazy to think. And also, you got to think about even TV ratings. everything else. If on January 9th, the day before the NHL says, we ain't going, I covered the

Pyong Chang games in South Korea. Look, hockey's hockey. We love watching hockey. It was exciting. I did my best to come up with as many interesting stories for our viewers as you could. It ain't Connor McDavid, and it's not Sidney Crosby. You did your best, as they said. Well, look, I'll tell you personally, as a reporter, it was a hell of a lot easier to do. I mean, I would walk around like I followed the team for a couple weeks even before in Latvia and in Helsinki and I would just see them in the hotel lobby and you'd chat up with them and you'd say hey what's going on that's not going to happen. I'm not just going to be able to sit in a lounge chair and pick Connor McDavid's brain like it's just not going to happen. They're much more controlled. But it's just the spotlight is just not that that big. Right. And this is like the smallest of the issues. But yeah, I mean if you're if you're if you're you're the broadcaster. Connor McDavid versus Team USA is your number one. That's your prime time slot.

That's going over all the sports. Whereas if it's the amateurs, it's the non-NHLers, it's probably not beating out like half-pipe snowboarding or whatever. Like, you know what I mean? The totem pole completely changes. Now,

let's not forget, the miracle on ice was taped delayed as well. So you never know when it comes to the Olympics, which kind of brings us to the Islanders. I mean, A lot of people had the islanders very high on their, let's call them Stanley Cup contender list. But nothing going right right now.

They've lost six in a row. They're in the basement of the Metropolitan. And they're kind of on the verge of possibly having postponements as well. Zedano Char, the seventh Islander, to test positive in the last week for COVID. Can either one of you explain what the heck is going on on Long Island right now? You play on the road for a month. You come back to a new arena and you have the most wonky. schedule of all time, and I genuinely feel that's going to mess you up.

Yeah, I completely agree. I don't think it's any coincidence that a Stanley Cup contender has struggled immensely starting on the road and Seattle. And they didn't have as long as the Islanders did, but I mean, they look like a horrible expansion team like expansion teams are supposed to, and that's just not what we expected out of Seattle. Like, I don't think anyone expected them to do what Vegas did in year one. Like, that's not fair. But I think everyone thought that's a like mid-level team that has been basically one of the worst teams in hockey. And I think both of them playing on the road, I think that plays a mass. And like people are going to point to, well, they're 0 and 2 at home.

So they wouldn't have been doing any better home. But you can't it's not the same. You can't just play your first 12 games, whatever it was on the road and then expect things to just go back to normal. The thing with a Barry Trott style team to is, look, you're going to keep the puck out of the net. That's what he preaches. That's what every Barry Trots team is. But when you can't at least score enough to win, and right now only the coyotes score less than the New York Islanders,

it's a recipe for disaster. And you've got guys logging big minutes, Dan O'Chara, almost 19 minutes a game. You've got Andy Green, almost 18 minutes per game. These are not spring chickens. These are older guys. And it's just not working. understand the road the road schedule was just weird and it is going to mess with you. But how much more

time can we give this team to write the ship? Because like I said, it's November 24th. Yeah. And they're in the last place right now in that division. It's definitely concerning. And I wonder how much, like, do, have they leaned on Trots too much? Like, I feel like when Barry Trots is your coach, he's so good that you can almost say like, ah, that player is like probably not like, this line is not good enough. But when Barry Trots is coaching him, they are good enough. Um, Do you think they're leaning too much on him, like not improving the team enough and just saying, that Barry Trots is so good, it won't matter? Definitely.

A coach can only do so much, you know? And a defensive tactician like him, too. You know what I mean? I think everyone's still looking at them as. And the funny thing is, let's face it, the last three years, the Islanders have still been that team that everyone thinks is really boring to watch when they're really not. They're actually a pretty fun hockey team to watch. They're not just to shut them down defensive team.

That being said, they still are a shut up. them down defensive team. But they're not scoring right now. And that's, you're not going to win hockey games unless you score more than the other team. Breaking news, guys, have been falling hockey a long time. Last I checked, that's how you win hockey games. I think they'll get it together. I do.

I think so. But I don't know. That's my contribution. Expert analysis from Sarah Sivian. I think they'll get it together, guys. But I don't know. Maybe they will. Maybe they will.

Maybe they will. Thanks for listening to the athletic Wednesday roundtable. The hottest of takes. Streaks. Connor McDavid's Point Street came to an end at 17 games. Troy Terry's came to an end at 16 games, but you got the Panthers. They've won 10 straight at home, speaking of home and away. The abs have kind of turned things around with five straight wins.

And the flames, seven game point streak, they're sitting atop the West. And Sarah still wants to talk about the Carolina Hurricanes. I feel like you don't talk about them enough on this podcast, and fans are going going to start saying something to me. Here is your time, Sarah. Ready? The clock has started. Okay.

Why are the Carolina hurricanes sitting in first place in the entire NHL? Because they're finding ways to win when they aren't playing well. They haven't played well on this road trip and they know that. And it's like, it doesn't matter. Like somebody, NACIS will score an amazing goal. Seth Jarvis came out of nowhere. Keeps putting up points. And Freddie Anderson gets the job done.

Like, they've had a few defensive lapses. And now it's concerning with bear on the COVID protocol, but nobody else has tested positive so far. So I think they're out of the woods with that, but you never want to speak to soon. But they are just winning in all these different ways and having fun. Like they had their first loss in San Jose on the road, and it was an overtime loss, so they still get a point. And the next day I practice, they're betting on the practice. And they're all screaming and having the best time of their life at practice. And I just feel like they might do something special this year.

That team is so fast and so skilled. But to me, like seeing them live last week when the hurricanes came to Vegas, what stood out to me is they're so creative. I watch a lot of hockey. And no, like the hurricanes make passes that you don't see from any other team. And they're not like, these aren't insanely like detailed or like crazy trick plays. I don't want this to sound like the hurricanes are like reinventing how you play hockey. They just make small little plays like, I don't know, redirect passes off the boards in the neutral zone.

I just noticed little things where it's like, oh, that that was different than like in certain scenarios, there's the play that 99.9% of hockey players make. They always rimmed around the boards when they're in this situation. They always make this pass. And I feel like the hurricanes, just small little things, they do creative things on the ice that are different from most hockey teams. And to me, it was like, it throws the defense. structure off. And like, you obviously have to have the talent and the skill to do that and they're so fast. But to me, that was what stood out about the hurricanes is they are creative and they do things differently. There's like 14 guys on the wing that also play center. I think that has

something to do with it. Sarah, you mentioned Seth Jarvis. How great was it even not hearing what Rod Brindamore was saying when he gets, you know, it's announced at practice that he's played his 10th game. He is now a member of this team. You know, sometimes I think we forget that when it comes to professionals because they're getting paid so much money and their superstars and their celebrities and everything else. But I love seeing someone make the team. You know what I mean? That's something we've all done at some point in our lives. If you play sports at all, you're trying to make the team. He wanted to make, you get that 10 game mark, you know, you've made the team. And to see all these other, you know, that's happy for them. It's one of those like, is it dusty in

here? Like, I love that kind of stuff. It warms my heart. I love these kinds of stories. And I love talking to the families. I've been talking to his brother, Kaden, who's a skills coach in Winnipeg. And he's just so over the moon for his brother. Like, he was getting COVID tested every other day so he could maybe go watch him in Raleigh from Winnipeg. And it's like this whole journey to see him. And like, it just, it matters, you know? Like, I do think we gloss over things like this sometimes. And I'm glad he's getting his moment. And he's just been sick. Like, there's been two disallowed goals he scored and four other goals in 10 games. And it's just, he's on the line with Aho and he's so fast and skilled.

And Aho loves playing with him. And I think guys like this sometimes add maybe something special to a team's cup run where you kind of want to, it's like an invigorating, you know. We started this by talking about streaks. The McDavid streak came to a net. You know, Detroit Terry streak was fun. I kind of, you know, we talked about last week on what end. I really wanted to see McDavid go on a streak that really made everybody raise their eyebrows because not only was it a cool streak at 17 games,

but it was a streak to start the beginning of the season. Unfortunately, he plays on a team that had another legend there who every time he does anything, it's like, you know, me of my friends laugh at some of the stats that come out. It's like, that's the best since Wayne Gretzky, who did, and whatever that number is, is about five times bigger than what McDavid did. Like a 17-game boy streak to start the season is great.

51 by Gretzky is even more impressive. But when you look at that, David, Terry, the Panthers, 10 straight wins at home, the Avalanche 5 straight wins, and the Flames. Which one really stands out is the most impressive so far this season? Jesse. Rob, what's more likely? Connor McDavid's pointless streak gets to three. So he's at one right now. Or he reels off another 17-point streak starting with his next game. Oh, that's actually tough. It actually is like a three-game. How many three-game

pointless streaks has he had in his career. I'll have to look it up. Would you rather fight three McDavid pointless streaks? Dom's not until next segment, Sarah. You're getting out of yourself. But no, I mean, I love watching, I love seeing streaks. I love watching a game just waiting to see somebody kind of, you know, look to extend something that has absolutely nothing really to do with the wins or loss of the game. That, that to me is a lot of fun. I mean, the 51 game point streak by Gretzky was interesting for two reasons for me. One, he scored in the previous nine games the season before.

So the streak's actually 60, but for some reason, the NHL doesn't recognize it. And two, he was injured during that streak. He had an injured shoulder. The second the streak ended, he missed the next six games. So when athletes tell you, no, no, I'm not thinking about the streak. I'm not thinking. Can I say bullshit on this? Bullshit.

They're thinking about the streak. Streaks come to an end. Streaks continuing, and we're going to continue after the break with Dom Lus Chishin, who wrote one of the funniest pieces I've seen on the athletic in a while. And we're also going to talk about third jerseys because, man, that New Jersey, third jersey. Yeah, that's the New Jersey and New Jersey. Hey, that, that's so much better. I mean, you could have thrown Tony Suprano on that jersey and would have got less attention than what this jersey got online. We're going to talk about that and gambling too. If you like to gamble, you know, you got to read Dom stuff. So,

Don't go anywhere, Don Lus Chishin, right after the break. Guys, I always say our producer, Jeff, has a phone number for any situation that could arise when it comes to the NHL. We put them to the test this week because just to let some of the listeners know, we said we wanted to talk about gambling, third jerseys and a team comprised of 23 William Nielanders. And he's like, I got the number. Dom Lus Chishin, joining us now on the podcast. You were just a man of infinite wisdom, aren't you, Dom? I don't know if I would say that. That was definitely a weird collection of things I've recently written about, I think.

The 23 William Neelanders was probably the most fun I've had, though, this week for sure. Okay, well, let's start there because it was a what-if piece. And from someone who's so analytical like yourself, it was, I read this thing and I was dying, laughing. You just kind of, just to let people know if they haven't read it on The Athletic, you kind of opened it up to crazy questions. and they ranged from serious questions that probably wouldn't happen. Like if you combine the best players from Arizona and Buffalo, where does your model project this team to be? And then the one that made me laugh out loud,

would you rather fight an Alex Ovechkin-sized duck or a hundred duck-sized Alexander Ovechkins? And I read it to my wife and she said, well, what did he pick? And I said what you picked. She said, yep, that's the right answer. Was it fun to just got to do something? Like, how fun was writing this article for someone who spent, his life just surrounded by math and numbers.

I mean, the premise of the article was like math and number based in general. I just know I get a lot of questions from people regarding the model and they have weird questions, such as what would a team of Buffalo and Arizona and their best players look like? So I wanted to answer that, but obviously when you're on Twitter and you open up the floor, some people send some weird questions and you get a question like, would you rather find Alex Ovechkin-sized duck or 100 duck-sized Alex Ovechkins. And I chose 100 duck-sized Ovechkins. I don't even know if that's the right answer.

I didn't, I have a model to tell me, but watch the game, nerd. I mean, you're an explanation, too. That was the best part of this whole thing was you were giving such legit explanations. Like, I think if I had a stick, I could beat off a hundred different duck-sized of Etkinskins, but a one big Ovechkin-sized duck would just be terrified. I am so afraid of birds and the large like I there used to be this flock of geese beside my parents house and I'd walk my dog and I don't know if it was like mating season or something but they'd get very aggressive for some reason especially around like the baby geese and would just like gawk at me I don't know what sound like a goose makes but I they're treacherous and one of my biggest fears in life and I've never met an ostrich but I can imagine it's just like the same energy. energy. Probably meaner. Probably, yeah. I've seen TikToks. They, they seem like jerks.

So dumb. How many questions? How many questions do you get a day about your model? Per day? I don't know. I try to ignore as many things as possible now because it's just very draining, but definitely at least like one or two. And then if I say, hey, I'm taking questions, then it's like 100. So one of the ones that wasn't as funny as the Alex of Etchen-Sides duck that I found interesting from a Vegas perspective, because it's something I've pondered, was what if the Golden Knights had operated like a normal team and not traded away every single prospect and every pick for Jack Eichol, Max Patchretti, Mark Stone, and all these guys? And you said they'd be a 93 point team, like a decent team that barely makes – so my question to you basically is, do you think that this is

something that GMs around the league should – like, it's a copycat league? Like, do you think this can become a model where suddenly GMs aren't afraid to trade all their first round picks because it seems like you can get more value back in getting star players at their peaks. I do. I think this might be like a market efficiency that no one has really exploited. I mean, the fact they got Mark Stone for Eric Brandstrom, who even at the time did not project to be as good as Mark Stone, number one, number two, there was a chance he projected to be nothing because there's so much uncertainty in prospect still. And I think if a GM calls and says we're willing to trade our top prospect, you should be skeptical. But I think the way Vegas has played it obviously has been strong in the sense that they've made these prospects coveted and traded them at just the right time before the rest of the league catches on that they might not be as good as they were initially touted.

Obviously, Nick Suzuki is the exception. But if you keep making those big swings, I think you'll come out ahead in the long run. It's fascinating. Like, I feel like we, we as a hockey world have been overvaluing first round picks and prospects. Oh, yeah. Like way too much. And maybe not even just hockey, just sports in general. Mm-hmm.

Yeah, it's, it's wild because in hockey, I think it's just the top five picks where you'd expect like a top line or top pair defenseman. But a lot of people treat a 20th overall pick in the same vein when it's not even close to the same. Meanwhile, you have an actual player who is actually good right there. in front of you. Yeah, exactly. He's already in NHL talent, sometimes like an actual star player. So it is odd, but then you get trades like Rastmasters-Lyinen for the moon. And then it goes the complete opposite direction. Here's another one of those crazy what-ifs for the moon. That does not exist, Dom, but you can record next week. You can just use McPhee for the example too, ERA for Forsberg. That's one that, like, at the time, looked, like, was similar to these and then ended up being a disaster.

And then people remember that for sure. But I mean, Forsberg was, what was he like 11th overall pick? Yeah. And ERAT was not Mark Stone. Right. A little different, but I, people do remember those more than they remember the ones where it goes. Well, I think Vegas doing it a few times might be helpful towards that, the tide shifting there. Let's talk third jerseys.

I know you did a piece with Sarah this morning and, you know, a lot. Sarah Sivian. Dom, Dom, Sarah. You know, last week, both Jesse and Sarah were making fun of me because I got way too heated about the Hall of Fame and the way the Hall of Fame has gone. And Sarah said your Canadian is showing.

I'm always baffled at how heated people get about Jersey changes and third jerseys. They will argue on Twitter about one extra row of piping or whatever. But New Jersey's third jersey certainly made Twitter explode a little bit. And you guys did a whole thing about third jerseys. First off, what did you think of the jersey, which is exactly what it said on the jersey and just third jerseys in general. I cannot believe they let a former goalie design it.

Like he didn't go to design school. He didn't go to fashion school. He's Molly Broder. What is he, and you got the result you'd expect out of giving a goalie free reign over. Oh, Jesse's not going to stop the goalie slander. I think we can refer to him as a former hockey. player who has no back. I don't see how goalie specific has any of doing. You're not wrong. Goalies are weirdos, but I can't imagine that Patrick Elias designs a better jersey, probably. I don't know.

It's weird. Like, all the Devils had to do was tweet out, what should our third jersey be? And then get some, like, sick, like, 18 year old who's into graphic design. And he'd probably design a better jersey in like a day. Well, what Sean, sorry, what Sean Shapiro was saying was that um, Dallas tried to do that with the skyline or like, everybody wants. wanted like a Dallas Skyline jersey and they gave them something else. It's like they never want to do what fans want to do. Like just listen to your fans and make something that is clean rather than something that is strange for the sake of being strange.

Like they had to think it says jersey on the jersey. They not want to be like, is that weird? I did like the devil's tweet saying they would sell a hat with the word hat on it. That completes the look. so much better. It's one of those things that you wonder, like Sarah said, in the meeting, and I know maybe it's because it was Broder. Did nobody put their hand up and kind of go like, it's a jersey and it says jersey on it.

Yeah, that, or is Marty Burger going, that's the funny part? And you're going, no, that's not the funny part. I don't know. Third jerseys have always kind of either they're somewhat, you know, nostalgic, let's call it. They try to kind of take a page from the past or they're completely the ugliest thing. on planet earth. I mean, who could forget the Burger King one for the LA Kings?

That's the one that always pops in my head. I wonder if, like, in like 20 years, it goes the other way where we look back at those Burger King jerseys, the trumpet jerseys, the Wild Wing breaking through the ice jerseys, and be like, these rule now because they were so ironically bad that they're now ironically good. And I wonder if the jersey jersey will have a similar effect in the future. Because right now, obviously, people hate it. But maybe when we do a new third jersey, Jersey draft, Sarah takes the Jersey jersey in the top 10.

Like the athletic reunion in 30 years when we do that. But it's not like ironically funny. They're trying to be serious. Meanwhile, obviously the Burger King was not serious. We don't know that. They might have been serious. I think they were being serious. I think so.

I think that's the issue is that they like the Wild Wing breaking through the ice. I think that was like obviously like funny and hilarious. Um, but the Burger King and the trumpets. I think those were. Those are serious. It's all about the money though, right? I mean, that's why they switched. Like, when I was growing up watching hockey,

the home team was the white, the dark team was the away. They made the switch so everyone would buy the jerseys. And now the third jersey is the way to, it's like the NFT of making money in the NHL. Yeah. I'm older than you are, Sarah. I guarantee you that.

But yeah, that's, it's, it was terrible. It was a complete failure. but I wonder, like you said, I wonder if these sort of things will become the pieces of memorabilia that are worth something 30 years from out. Like, look at the ugly jersey jersey that I got hanging up behind me. Let's talk gambling, though. Because I mentioned the three things you're here to talk about, one of them gambling. The NHL, along with every other sport, and we kind of touched on this earlier, finally embracing that gambling is not this big evil thing that's only run by the mafia and someone's going to break your legs if you lose. your daily

NHL betting guide I read it every single day and I was talking to our mutual friend Steve and I said you know Dom reminds me of in casino when Joe Pesci says

about De Niro's character Ace Rossi and he's like he doesn't bet and have fun like me or you he bets like a brain surgeon and that's like I always think now when you think about the NHL embracing gambling the way they are they're always making these deals

with online sports books what percentage of people do you think are like you that really break down line movements, have about 15 different books so they get the best line. They're, you know, they've got a model. They're trying to do this like a brain surgeon and what people are more like me where they're like, you know what, what three team parley gives me the biggest payout so I can

watch hockey and have a little bit of fun gambling tonight? It is definitely a very low percentage for the brain surgeon type. Like I have to think it's like 1%, maybe pushing 5. I don't know. I can't imagine it's big because gambling is going to be. be huge and there's a lot of sports fans and not a lot of brain surgeon sports fans crossing over in the bend diagram of life. I do worry about betting becoming this big thing and people who don't know what they're talking about becoming, not becoming being pushed to talk about

betting and being betting experts when the people reading expect them to win and they don't know if they can win long term and it is a tough business and while it's fun to have a three team parlay and cheer for hockey and watch those games it's not fun losing money either and it's I do wonder where where things go with all these different media companies pushing really hard to enter that space like even my own daily betting guide like I know I've been profitable for years I don't know if that'll continue going forward I feel like the market is getting sharper and for every year, I wake up every morning and the lines are almost exactly what I have, which is annoying. And it means I have fewer plays. And then on a day like today where I have a bet

on almost every game, I'm almost concerned about why I have this many bets compared to usual, whether something is wrong. So it is, it depends how much you're betting, obviously. And if it's just recreational and you are smart and know how much to bet and play it safe, then, yeah, it could be fun if you lose 100 bucks, you lose 100 bucks. But there's other people where they might be looking at a serious money-making opportunity and might be trusting the wrong people, which is my concern. You kind of led me down the path that I was looking at, and that was that hockey in general, hockey betting has become a lot more popular since the, since sports betting has spread past Vegas. When it was kind of just Vegas and then obviously some small areas here and there,

but when it was mostly just Vegas, hockey was almost not bet on at all to the point where I feel like those lines didn't have to be sharp. There are only a few guys taking advantage of it. Whereas now, if the line is off, it's going to cost those sports books a lot more money. Is that what you've seen? Do you think they're putting more emphasis on it? I really think so because the other sports are so sharp that if you're not betting as early as possible and don't have an edge with what you're doing, then you're going to get crushed.

And hockey wasn't like that for the longest time. It was decent. It was improving. But for the long time, there were these massive edges that you can exploit and have a profitable season. And now that edge is getting smaller and smaller every year. And this is one of the strangest years in that regard for hockey where I think the market is as sharp as it's ever been.

And it's going to be legitimately hard to win money long term. What do you stand on in-gay betting? That is a vibes play for sure. If a team is just absolutely crushing the other team and they're down, I might throw a bet on it if it's like plus money. I think it was, I don't know if it was yesterday or two days ago where Colorado was playing Ottawa, and they were down five, four, and the third and just dominating them,

and I went to make a live bet, and it wasn't even up. So I couldn't get it. And then Colorado scored literally a minute later to tie it. So I was a little salty about that. But I watched the game. I feel the vibes out. I check MoneyPuck to see what the old deserve to winometer is. And if they really are dominating as much as I think they are, then I will usually throw a little bit down, but not too much.

Because I'm not sure what I'm doing when it comes to live betting. It's just more of a feel thing. Look at that. Not know what you're doing. You started this by saying there's people out there who are going to pretend to be experts. And I like that you just kind of said, you know what? I don't know what I'm doing. More people should say that.

Yeah. No, you know what? I agree because I've been in that situation where I, And I will fully admit, I've wagered on sports my whole life, but I am much more the recreational gambler. I enjoy having a lot of action because it's fun. I'm not looking at how many units I'm up at the end of the year. I'm just not. It's the same as a night out for me.

But then you do see people making predictions or pawning themselves off as experts. I go to the experts. I look at yourself. Like I said, I read your your betting guide every day. And I look at your advice. but again, I don't, I don't bet like you. So it's one of those situations where you have to find your happy medium and where you're going to have fun.

And you're right now, it almost feels like we're being forced upon with people who are claiming to be experts because that's the in thing right now. Yeah, yeah. And I think I found the happy medium last year in terms of betting on the Minnesota Wild and becoming their biggest fan.

That was my happy place when I came to betting. But it was mostly a place of they kept winning me money and there was no reason not to love them as much as I did. Seattle has not been as nice to you this year. No, no, no, they have not. But maybe they'll beat the Carolina Hurricanes tonight and make things up. I seriously doubt it. Just the way the canes are rolling right now, it's insane.

Mm-hmm. We can do a friendly wager right now, Sarah, if you want. I feel like that's not professional on my part. That's fair. Fair enough. I once lost a professional wager on a sporting event online, on a, sorry, on air, where I had to refer to myself in the third person for 24 hours. Doesn't need to be money, guys. So for 24 hours, so good.

It's brutal. And I also lost a bet once where I couldn't sit down for 24 hours. Oh, my God. So it doesn't need to be money, guys. How did you do so many things? The only thing I was a lot when I was allowed to go to sleep, like they said. He said, okay. But yeah, I stood up all day.

It sucks. It absolutely sucks. But the third person one is great because you follow that person around and you just laugh your ass off all day. So Rob Piso is going to end this segment. Thanks, Tom, for coming on and hitting everything, gambling third jerseys and duck-sized ovechkins, which was just awesome. Go read on the athletic. Thanks, Tom. Thanks for having me.

After the break, we'll get to your Twitter questions. Keep sounding them. We'll keep reading them. Okay, time now for your Twitter questions. And Sarah, I love the picture of your cat, just sprawling on a couch. And that's the way you get people's attention to ask what you want us to talk about on the podcast. Now, ordinarily, I pick like a few of them and read them specifically, but they all seem to have the same theme. And this is great because we've been talking so much about jerseys in this episode.

people want to know our thoughts on the Canadian and the American jerseys for the upcoming Olympics. So let's start with the American seeing as you guys outnumber me on this show. Your thoughts on the American jerseys. Jesse. Those jerseys do not represent me. Start with that. They are awful. I think they are horrendous.

I think the worst part about the USA jerseys is they said, okay, we've got three jerseys. There are three colors on the American flag, right? Red, white, blue? Okay. Let's not do that. Let's do one that's white, one that's blue, and then another one that's blue. But a different blue, an uglier blue that has nothing to do with the flag. Finland's blue.

It's literally like, it's so bad. And I saw a tweet that's like, why are these kids on Twitter better at designing jerseys than these jersey designers? Like, why? I don't like it. I don't like the USA. I don't know. I just, oh, it's bad. I really hope one of these days you guys have come out of your shell and say what you really think.

Wow, that was just, that was. The blue is so bad. Yeah. I didn't mind the Canadian ones. I'll be honest with you. I don't know what you guys think of them. I know a lot of people get so up in arms when a Canadian jersey is black. I don't mind it.

There's got to obviously be some red in there or some white in there. But if it's black, it looks tougher to me. It looks angrier. It looks meaner, which I think you need a little bit in a hockey jersey. but I know a lot of people are not happy just at the look of the Maple Leaf. I think it's great. You guys, do you hate it as much as you hate the USA jerseys? No, I think the Canadian jersey is much better.

What I like about it is the, you mentioned people don't like the Maple Leaf. I like that. I like that it's clean looking. I don't know, something about the hockey player like silhouette in the Maple Leaf, which is the normal like hockey Canada logo. It doesn't look as clean to me. It looks too cluttered. I like what the Canadian flag looks like.

Would it look better if it was just the same leaf that's on the flag? I think it probably would look better. But I do like just the clean. It's also very symmetrical. I don't know. I like the look of the jersey. What do you think, Sarah? Yeah, someone said on Twitter, because that's all I do.

Look at what people say on Twitter is it kind of looks like they're representing a dispensary with that leaf a little bit. Yeah. It looks a little weedish, actually. Yeah. I didn't think that when I saw it. Yeah. Now I can't unsee it.

Yeah. Now I just feel like I need a bag of chips. Yeah, no, I mean, I see what you're saying, Jesse, with the actual Maple Leaf that's on the flag. But that's so basic. I kind of think, like, let's expand. I mean, there are a lot of jerseys in the past that people say they like better. 87-karon-a-cup to me is still the one that's the benchmark.

It's my favorite Canadian jersey of all time. but I don't mind it at all. Let's go back to Twitter here. Def Joe Met wants to know, says Thanksgiving time means we could see coaches falling once again. Who will be next to join Jeremy Colleton? So basically, coaches on the hot seat, guys. A couple names of pop up. I didn't think Dominic Dusharm would be on this list, seeing as they just signed them to that extension.

But Dominic Dusharms got to be on this list. Maybe Rick Bonas. Travis Green, we've talked about at nauseam. Sarah likes to say, Travis Green's always on the hot seat. And I'm not going to say Barry Trots, but the Islanders are struggling. But who would you guys say is on the biggest hot seat? Sarah, we'll start with you. I wish.

I mean, I don't wish it was Travis Green, but it's like, can they do something? I just, I feel like I've seen tweets for five years. That's like the tensions are rising in Vancouver and there's going to be a move made. And nothing ever happens. I want to see something happen. Like, it's absolutely ridiculous. If anybody see that thing where it was like, Friedman reported, they're starting to have alliances, like, within, like, it's a Love Island or survivor or something that they're like, who's safe, who's not? Like, it's ridiculous.

Along those lines, though, you got to wonder if that's a Jim Benning final card that he can play to save his job. You know what I mean? Like, if what else can he do? Like, if he does that, that's his like, okay, unless we change things here, he's conceding his job at the end of the year, right? To be honest, I thought we were going to, I thought Travis Green was getting fired in Vegas. They got blown out by the avalanche like seven to nothing or something the night before. I remember the exact score. And then they came into Vegas and gave up seven goals to the Henderson Silver Knights,

AHL team because that's who the Golden Knights put on the ice that night. And I thought for sure it was happening. It was like everyone was comparing it to Babcock getting fired in Vegas two years ago. I thought it was going to happen then. I'm with you guys. I thought he was the guy on the hot seat. The ones that I wouldn't say. Like, I feel uncomfortable calling for people's jobs or even, like, this is an uncomfortable thing for me.

But I will say that two teams that maybe didn't have the highest expectations but are still underperforming. Like the senators, DJ Smith, I'm not like saying this guy needs to be fired. He's only been there a couple years. They're building there. But they're also not building at the speed that they probably. And like, I think a lot of people thought they may take a little step forward this year. Well, Pierre Dorian said the rebuild is over before the season start. They're currently, they're currently below.

Seattle in the rankings. And like they, I mean, I'm sorry, below Arizona. And Arizona has a couple games, extra games played. But if you're below Arizona and they're intentionally trying to lose, like this team is doing everything they can to lose and you're below them in the standings. That's, it's not a good sign. And then the other one that I would throw out there is Sarah's mentioned Twitter and what you see on Twitter.

And I have seen more than any coach being called for, being criticized on Twitter. I'm seeing Ron Francis. And the people in Seattle are not happy. with what he has done and just the product that they've put on the ice. So I would say two coaches on teams that don't have high expectations and those usually aren't the guys that go, but just two ones that I'll throw out there. Haxtall is making some bizarre decisions.

I'm on team free, Hating, Clayton. Sorry, Haxstall. Yeah. Well, you said, Ron, I don't know we're on a Zoom call. My eyes lit up. I'm like, wait a minute. You're firing a GM like this. Sorry.

Haxstall, not Ron Francis. He's going on it. But Haxstall, you're right. He's made some bizarre decisions. I think he might be just trying a little too hard, it seems. It's the vibe I get here. I don't know. And you wonder if that's coming from Ron Francis.

Like, is Ron Francis telling him, like, we don't need to win, go ahead and like try these things? Or is he just coaching poorly? Yeah, there's levels there. And along with Jesse said, we're not hoping these people get fired. This isn't like, this isn't a pool or drafting someone to get fired. But a coach's hot seat does exist. And there are coaches right now who know. I think Travis Green is number one in the list who know that they're coaching right now for their job.

So as we always say with when it comes to coaches hot seat, we're going to have to wait and see. That wraps up another show. As always, guys, before we go, let me know what you're working on this week. Jesse? I just came out with a story projecting the Golden Knights all the way to 2025. I'm telling you right now. This team, I don't know who they're going to trade in the next month. So trying to project them three years in the future is difficult.

but it was a lot of fun to do, so that's up on the athletic right now. Shee! 2000-25! You've seen a lot of those lately. The sports almanac from back to the future. Sarah, go ahead. This morning I published, I went out to dinner with John Foresland, an old friend, and we reflected on his career with the hurricanes and looked ahead to Seattle.

It's so great to see him doing well. That's on the site today. Be sure to go and read those pieces if you want to know what's going on in 2025. That's it. Thanks for listening to The Athletic Hockey Show. Give us a follow on your favorite podcast platform. Don't forget, leave a rating and a review. You could subscribe to the Athletic Plus on Apple Podcasts,

get all the bonus content, including crazy stories from on the road of people having really loud sex in hotel rooms that actually happened for our entire network. Start a 30-day trial. Then it's just 99 cents a month after that. And you could also get the athletics best deal of the year. $1 a month for 12 months.

when you visit theathletic.com slash hockey show. So go ahead and get that sports coverage. You know you deserve because it won't get any better than this. The athletic hockey show continues Thursday with Ian Mendez and down goes brown. For Sarah, for Jesse, I'm Rob. Happy Thanksgiving to our American listeners. We'll talk to you next week.