The Athletic Hockey Show - NHL's Final Four is set: Dallas Stars vs. Vegas Golden Knights, Florida Panthers vs. Carolina Hurricanes, and new Philadelphia Flyers President of Hockey Operations Keith Jones joins the show

Episode Date: May 16, 2023

Sean Gentille and guest co-host Max Bultman welcome Keith Jones, the Philadelphia Flyers new President of Hockey Operations to discuss taking this leap with the Flyers, his time as one of the most respected analysts in hockey broadcasting, removing the interim tag for General Manager Daniel Briere, working with head coach John Tortorella and the task at hand to bring the Flyers back to respectability for the city of brotherly love.Sean and Max stick tap the second year Seattle Kraken who ultimately fell in game seven of the second round to the Dallas Stars, before looking ahead to the NHL's final four featuring the Vegas Golden Knights vs the Dallas Stars, and the Florida Panthers facing the Carolina Hurricanes, and what old guy without a cup we are rooting for in the third round. Subscribe to The Athletic Hockey Show on YouTube: http://youtube.com/@theathletichockeyshowGet a 1-year subscription to The Athletic for $2 a month when you visit http://theathletic.com/hockeyshow Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is The Athletic Hockey Show. Welcome, welcome, welcome. Hi, hello. How are you? The Athletic Hockey Show, Tuesday Boys Edition. Sean Jensili here with Max Boltman. He is once again taking the place of Deadbeat co-host Craig Custins, who is out for reasons undisclosed.

As always, I'm sure they're very appointment. Very appointment. It could be an appointment. I don't know. Whatever. I'm sure they're very important. Max. Hello.

How you doing, buddy? I'm good. I'm very good. Glad to be back. Glad to be back. I'm sure you're very psyched for our guest. It's a good one. It's Keith Jones.

Incoming presidents of the Philadelphia Flyers. It's going to be weird watching TV broadcast in the United States without him because he's been part of that for, oh, my goodness. When did OLN start? I really actually. Like, I think it's been my entire, like, conscious hockey watching. Can you remember watching hockey on TV without Keith Jones? I barely can. I'm 37.

Yeah. I'm 27. I don't think I can. So. I remember when he played, of course, because he, you know, there was some battles between the Flyers and the penguins back in the day. And then, of course, before that with the caps. So I remember Keith, Keith Jones was a player.

But pretty close to the line. I think we found out, and we found out where it is. If you're 30 or below, you don't remember watching hockey on TV in the States without Keith Jones being a part of it. So it's going to be wild. But I think that is a big part of what made him an attractive candidate for the Philadelphia Flyers. I think that's kind of the perspective that he's going to bring to that job. And we haven't talked to him yet. Here's a little peek behind the curtain. Typically, we record the interviews first and then record segments one and three. But we're talking to Keith in a little bit, and I can guarantee you that that's going to be a part of it, right?

just like his history, not just as a TV guy either. He was a, he hosted the morning show on WIP and Philly for years and years and years, on and years, on and on. Guys had an interesting life, and I think he makes a little bit more sense in that role than some people are willing to admit. So we're psych to talk to Keith. We do have relevant games to talk about Maxie. As of last night, the NHL Final Four is set. We saw the stars beat the Seattle Crack in game seven. It makes it Vegas, Dallas in the Western Conference finals.

Of course, in the East, we have Carolina, Florida. That was set a couple days ago. We'll get to that in a second. But let's start with the West because that was the most racing game. Max, you watched that one. I watched that one. Let's talk about the Seattle Cracken for a second because our season's over, year two. hell of an effort last night

unreal run in the postseason honestly that a lot of people myself included didn't well say didn't think was possible I think that's fair I don't know if a lot of people were picking them to beat Colorado in the in the first round at all what did you see from them over the last couple weeks and what do you like about them moving forward because I think there is I think there is a ton of good stuff happening in Seattle

Well, it was kind of the story of what the analytics community had expected in year one from them, right? Was that there would be this assembled team that, okay, yeah, they didn't have huge star power at the top, but you can build this pretty efficient team overall with all these, you know, good, maybe not super elite players. And from that, you know, you can build something. And in year one, that flopped completely. and in year two, they pretty much made happen what year one was always supposed to be. And I think it helped to obviously have Maddie Baneers at age 20 there step in, but you saw the complete team factor there.

And night in and night out, that's what they were. And I think that's what they were through the playoffs. And I think in the Dallas series, you kind of saw both extremes. Like there was not really until last night that this was kind of true in the second round as a whole, honestly. but that many close games or whatever. Like you would have nights where they would be right on top of you really good and win by two or three goals. That's where they couldn't hang with Dallas.

And in the end, I thought Dallas just kind of smothered them and took advantage of the fact that they didn't have that game breaker. But you know what? They are as deep, I think, a third and fourth line as you're going to see. And they found a way to push it that close against who I would now consider the cup favorite, the stars. Totally. So you know what?

You got to kind of tip your cap to them because it was a very good season. I think probably a gratifying one for that front office because I assume their vision was something more like this too. Oh, God, absolutely. And we've said it a million times because it's such a crazy stat. There's 13 players on that roster with at least 13 goals. It's Jared McAnnegan who's at the top of 40, 12 guys between 13 and 24, right? Benares. Benares has the 24.

Crazy deep lineup, clearly by design. a bunch of guys on that roster who are, you know, major, major contributors there are really savvy moves. You know, Ron Francis jumped in, traded for Oliver Bjorksren who scored 23 times with the blue jackets and was only on the block, which is hilarious to think about in hindsight, was the only reason that Columbus needed to move him

was because they kind of unexpectedly signed Johnny Goddrow and then extended Patrick Liner, right? So they needed to move out some money, Francis jumped on that. He jumps on Ellie Tolvinan, who was, you know, who had an elite skill set or an elite skill. That dude has a rocket, right? He's got a cannon. Never fit with the predators for whatever reason.

They make a savvy waiver edition. Dude ends up scoring 18 goals in 16 games, right? Daniel Sprung up and down the lineup. There's all these guys that fell out that roster that were savvy. I don't want to say data. but just like smart additions and the kind of players that smart teams add to fill out their lineup. We're talking about the lack of lead talent at the top. Again, I'm sure it's aggravating for cracking pins to hear, but, you know, it's true.

You need some game breakers. The good news for them moving forward is that Baneers is only going to get better. Jared McKeon's going to come back. I think the guy's a 40 goal score. I think he got way late a little bit in the playoffs. obviously by that by that kale macar hit he'll be back and ready to roll we're expecting big things from Shane Wright they're going to get a full season from Andre Bernekovsky so you are adding before you do anything before you make a single move in free agency or or whatever you are adding

that top level or you're at least projected to add that top level talent right 21 year old mattie Bennears is going to be better Shane Wright is going to be relevant Andre Berakowski is going to be healthy. Those three guys, account in, and then you throw in Jared McKean, who's a legit 40 goal score in the NHL, you're mixing those guys at the top of the lineup and you're cooking with gas.

You got something good going. So good stuff from Seattle. I do want one more player I want to mention. Max, we've talked about this before, I think, on the show, maybe just off mic. Every couple years, we see a third pair defenseman that analytics loves

and then just kind of a flat and it's like, okay, this guy is more to give, right? He should be in a first pair role, right? He should get big minutes, right? And a lot of times it doesn't work out because that guy is cast appropriately as a sheltered, you know, specialist on a third pair. There's nothing wrong with that, but that's the job that some guys are meant to have. And I thought coming in the last season that Vince Dunn was that dude. I would use him as the exact like example of that dude. I was skeptical. I was like, okay, this guy, you get him out of St. Louis,

you play him against different competition in different minutes. I don't want to say he's going to get exposed, but he's not going to be, you know, the world beater that maybe the analytics, above all else at all times, crew makes him out to beat. Because we've, again, we're not going to go into names or detail or whatever, but that is not worked out with defensemen specifically. in the past. Vince Dunn this year was unbelievable. It used to be, in my eyes, you would have all these guys that people would hope

were going to be the next McKenzie Uygar and would actually be what I would have literally probably said. I probably have said it on podcasts, actually just the next Vince Dunn. But now Vince Dunn moved himself in the exact opposite of that conversation. He's moved himself up. He's in the Uyghur class now. 64 points goals for like while on ice per 60 just

unbelievably elite in that in that category Seattle scored more than four per 60 with him on the ice I looked this up last night no defenseman who played more than 21 games with his team had a bigger number than that yeah

Matisse at home was wet was way up there because you know the the Oilers took off while he was in the lineup. And then other than that, it was a bunch of dudes who played six games, eight games, 11 games.

And then overall is Vince done at number five, period, not accounting for playing time or anything. Five, period. And he was number one among regular D-Men by a mile. Yeah.

Take all that together. Yeah, good, go ahead. Well, no, I'm just, like, if you want to,

I'm sure there are people listening who are like, oh, analytics player still has good analytics, even though goals per 60, gold, four, per six, not really an analytic.

That's just a team. scoring a shitload of goals while this dude is on the ice. It's a plus 28, Sean. Like, he's a plus 28 in 23 minutes a night. Like, I don't care about that step, but if you're someone who does, that is bananas. This dude helps his team score more goals than the opposition better than any player, better than any defenseman in the league. It's wild.

He's fantastic. And he's doing it also. I know we just sat there and said, like, oh, got to make sure, like, sheltered minutes, specialist, whatever. that is what's most impressive about all this. Vince Dunn is doing this from a first pair with Adam Warrison playing brutal minutes. He's a great player. And I was skeptical about him and maybe I shouldn't have been. I don't, you know, we stand by the original point, right? Which is that some guys are just in the role that they're that they're supposed to be in, right?

Vince Dunn was not one of those guys. He's fantastic. He's RFA coming off. He's in his last, He's in his last Arbier, made $4 million the last two years. His contract's going to be really interesting. But Seattle has enough money to keep him around, improve around the margins, and account for all this improvement that they've got coming elsewhere. So I love what they've done. I love how they're going to look moving forward. I love their placement in that division in the Pacific.

Everything about Seattle's looking fantastic here. So shout out to them. Shout out to Seattle, one of the great cities, one of the great support cities. North America because good shit's coming. Here's my question for you. I'm happy to see it. Yep. So we've talked about Benyerson right on the way.

That should be most of what they need, right? It's the two number one centers that we always talk about. You need to be a cup contender. Do you think they should be, Eric Duhatchik and Mike Russo just came out with athletic tradeboard one point of the other day. There's a ton of scoring wingers on there. How big of a player should Seattle be for those guys,

knowing that if they need, I think Berikovsky is a big part of the answer there, but how big in on those guys should they be knowing that if they need something, it's probably in that, in that vein, just like someone who can give you a goal seemingly out of nowhere. Yeah, they could use another one. Most teams could use another one, right? The thing about them is great is yes, Don's contract is going to be interesting. But they have $18 million in cab space, even accounting for him.

And they don't have a ton of guys, you know, I feel bad for Eunice Don's, boy, right? But he's, you know, he's probably their biggest UFA and he's, in his career is in jeopardy because of concussion stuff. So they have money to spend. They don't have a ton of guys outside of done to really worry themselves about. So if it does get to a point where, you know, the cap is, the cap is still relatively flat. There's going to be teams out there that are looking to shed maybe. So yeah, they should be in every single discussion for, for, for, for wingers on the market. Because this is a win-now team.

You know? Like this is like they're good. We can say that, you know, without reservation, we can look at what's coming down the pike for them and say that they're going to be better. You know, big question mark with Philip Grubauer still. But whatever. You eat what's on your plate. Yeah.

So they're in good shape. I think they should be in on everybody, right? Is there any name at the top of the of the Russo-Jahjik list that, you know, sticks out for you in them in them in particular? That's what I was trying to think. You know, I think it's the ones who are going to stick out for most teams, though, right? Like, it's like, it's the brinket. I'm sure, like, you know, every team's going to want a Nielander.

I actually don't know that that's the place I would throw Nielander in. But, you know, that's the kind of guy, though, right? Like, it is another kind of 40 goal score. Because as much as I believe in Jared McCann, I do think it's possible we just saw his best season. No, we saw it. We saw Pete Jared McCann. Yeah. And that's okay.

And if he goes down to 31 goals, no one's going to say all of a sudden he's not a good player. But then I do think you still need a foil to that. Another guy who can give you at least 30. Because I don't know if you're going to get 12 forward scoring double-digit goals every single year. As much as that's been the design, at some point you are going to need a little more at the top just to be a year-in, year-out.

Totally. And if it's not one of those super-duper top-end guys, you know, there's still some interesting names on that, on that list, right? Totally. Ross Colton would be a guy who would fit in perfectly with what they've done. Connor Garland. Yeah.

You know, he's not, he's not a game breaker, but he also plays a, he also plays in a way that fits what they're doing. You don't want to, you know, you don't want to take, I know this is like,

this is an outdated example, but you don't want to say like, hey, Mike Hoffman, like go play, go play for the show. That's not going to work. But a guy that Connor Garland,

who's certainly 20 or 25 goal capable, he's a really good five-on-five player. you add them to the mix and I think I think they could be I could be a like I said before cooking with gas I love what they're doing so anyways you can move on yeah we don't need we don't need to spend well let's go to the winners right 45 minutes we need it talking about a team that just lost the stars the Dallas stars we saw it again last night Dallas stars secondary scoring my goodness what a world we live in maxi they're the most complete team left You know, I mean, and.

Yep. There's some, it is going to be an interesting final four. As much as people are going to complain about it's not the big markets and maybe it's not the very pinnacle stars of the league, although I do think Jack Eichla and Matthew Kuch getting their first taste of the spotlight is good for the sport to broaden that spotlight. Yeah. But, you know, Dallas is so complete. They've got that.

You know, they have the Jason Robertson, the Miro Hayskin, who by the way, I think, I don't know if he hit 32 last night, but he was very close to 32 minutes. He did top his game four for sure. And budding star Rupa Hens, who, you know what, in these playoffs, if Dallas wins I think he's your Kahn Smythe favorite through two rounds. Brother, I just filled out a little prediction, updated prediction sheet for the athletic. And I'll let you guess who my, who my predicted Kahn Smyth winner was. Shout out to Haley Salvin, by the way, who had Rupa Hens as her Konsmithe

winner from the jump. Wow. Which, smarter than both of us, I guess. What do you think about the about the conference final matchups, just overall? Like, what do it? I think they're going to be good series. This is a leading question because, because I want to talk about the dialogue surrounding them for the last, for the last few days. But how excited are you personally for this? Very. I think they're going to be really good series. You know, I, of course, I would have liked to see Connor McDavid on this stage. But I think in terms of play style, in terms of construction, these are going to be such good series to watch.

I think they're going to, I think I almost see no way they end before six games, which now that I've jinks and they're going to be two sweeps. But they should be very. You're talking. You're talking to the guy, by the way, that said, I think the Edmondson Oilers are the, the cup favorite. And they went out and lost two straight. So this show is the jenks.

sorry, Dallas, I guess. They humiliated me. I don't even know if I said that on the show. I wrote it from Edmonton. I got suckered. I got suckered because I watched them. Pre-playoffs. I think I probably I probably picked him last round, too.

I watched, I picked them to win the conference at the start of it, and I picked him, picked him to win every series. And then after game four, where you saw them, you know, they turned it. I thought they turned in a good enough five-on-five to make that work. I was mistaken. But it's Ottinger is the best goal he left in the playoffs, right? 100%. And I think Heiskenen maybe, I mean, it's going to be, there's a good D on every team now, right?

Like an elite D on every team. No surprise, there always is. I think I'd argue for him as the best D left in the playoffs. I certainly would, you know, slave in Eckblad, Petrangelo, all awesome. But I think I'd argue him as the number one. And this kind of goes back. I think what we saw from them in the series goes back to what we talked about with a cracking. And part of the reason that people were skeptical of Seattle really from the jump

is that you have elite players being elite players, right? Like, they don't win that series without hints or Hayeskin in at the top of their game. But Dallas has done this without getting much in the way of production from Jason Robertson. Yeah. And that's crazy. If you would have said a year ago, Dallas is going to the conference finals despite, and oh, by the way, Jason Robertson didn't score a goal in the series that led up to that. People would have laughed at you because that's just the way they were last year and even the year before that, just a really top heavy team that relied way too much on the production from that line. And now, because you have hints going into, you know, S-tier freakazoid mode, he's been, he's obviously been fantastic. And you

You have guys like Wyatt Johnson in Evgeny Dodonov, in role player Jamie Ben, and all these guys that are providing meaningful minutes, even if it's not always in the way of goals, that's why they're here, right? That's why the stars are here. And it's been, it's really been fun to watch because it's always fun to watch a team that has very obvious weaknesses, right? Weaknesses that are clear enough for me or you or even Craig to sniff out and say, you're like, all right, this is where they need to get better.

With Dallas, it was always clear. And then they went out and did it. They went out and did it. They added the Donna. They added Max Domey, relevant pieces that came up big, and that's why they are where they are. You make the Jamie Ben role player line,

but it's so true. Okay, this is the true statement. Dallas is getting badly needed secondary scoring from their two highest paid players, right? Tyler Sagan looks as good as he's looked in years. He should have had two goals last night. he was outstanding. And in this new kind of 17-ish minute-a-night role,

these two guys are thriving. Ben's probably playing a little bit more than that, but it's not by much, right? And this is where they, this is the role they should be playing at this point in their career. They're allowed to, because of how good that first Dallas line is. And they're giving him exactly what the need.

You know, I think they're both not at point per game, but not too far below point per game, these playoffs. And if you're that and you're the two highest paid players, and you're the two best players, you got problems. But if you're that and you're the secondary, you got happy solutions.

I don't know. What's the opposite of problems? Happy solutions. No, just happy. Happy solutions. Beautiful loving solutions. I feel like Bob Ross, we've got happy solutions today. Let's put some happy little solutions on the page.

Some Arctic white. Yeah. I mean, Tyler is saying it needs to be said every time we talk about this guy. He had as serious history. injury as you could possibly have as a hockey player, right? And he's a year, he's removed from that. He's rehabbed that. All sort of kinetic chain stuff went bad with him, whereas his quad muscle was just wasted. Saad Yusuf has written about this extensively, like he's covered it really, really well. It wasn't going to happen overnight for him. If it ever was going to happen,

it sure shit wasn't going to be in the span of six months or nine months. Now we're seeing Seagan a couple Wears out from that injury, just looking, looking unbelievable. All right, let's do a quick, quick ranking, but before we get to Keith Jones? Who are the top, what team has the edge in old guys without a cup? I think it's clear. To me, it's clear. There's a certainly, certainly clear one and two. Well, Pavelsky at the top has to be, he's the number one seed.

Can he carry your whole team to it? I think you probably can, right? Souter without a cup, right, too? Yeah. Yeah, so it's Dallas. Jamie Ben? Oh, geez, of course. It's a no-brainer.

Yeah. Wow. Carolina isn't second. They've got relevant dudes for the conversation. Burns, Stasney. Um, I mean, there's, you know, there's a fair amount of, I mean, I know, I know we don't want to talk about, you know, Jacob Slavin. Like he's old. Yeah.

It's old or anything. But like, these guys, you start, you start, you start playing a bunch of years. You start getting him 30. into your 30s, like, stuff rolls up on you pretty quickly, as I can, as I can say. Number three is... It's got to be Florida, right? Vegas isn't old enough. I guess it's Florida.

Yeah. I guess it's Florida. But Brovsky, I guess, is the top old guy without a cup. Again, this is, this is stuff that just made... Mark Stahl's been around the block. I think he, you know, does... Yeah, he'll have a cup? Who cares if Marksod gets to go?

Well, okay, fair. Does Goudis have one? Goodus, uh, no. No, he's not, he's not that old.

Wait, wait a second. We, we got to, we got to check this because he's been, he's been so cup adjacent for most of his career, whether it's with the, with the,

with the, with the, with the, with the, producer Jeff says, no, he does not. No, he does not.

No, he does not. He was, boy, he was only in the caps in 1920. That wasn't, it was only one, and he's 32.

I think that's old enough, 11 year career. You get to be an, an, an Agwack for that, right? Vegas is short. Vegas is short here. It's Marcha So is their best bet, right?

He's the same deal. 32. He's been around. I can't sign off on that. It's stone. It's stone even though he's not as old as Marcheau because A, Mark Stone looks old. He's looked like he was 35 for the last 20 years.

And B, he's got the back injury. What is more like old, old dude caliber? and skating around there with a sore back. You're discriminating against March yourself for being too handsome here, Sean. That's what's happening here. I think that is it. Boy, he's a great quote, too. Yeah, that was a good interview.

I didn't really know that about him until the last week. He's a blast. All right. I think that does it for us here. I think that does it for us talking about actual hockey teams that are playing relevant games. It's time to move on to Philadelphia Flyers. It's time to move on to our discussion with Keith Jones. I'm sure he's going to be great because he always is. Enjoy.

We are psyched to bring in incoming Flyers president, also a proud alum of the Harvard of the Midwest, Western Michigan. Keith Jones, how you doing, man? I'm doing great, John, and really happy to be able to join you guys today. It's a beautiful sunny day here in Philadelphia. and yeah, just ready to continue to get things started here as we try to get back on track with the Philadelphia Flyers. So today seems like you mentioned when you jumped on, you just talked to WIP for a really long time, the big sports talk station there. I saw you jumped on with Sirius earlier. You're making the media rounds.

It's something that you're certainly got a lot of experience doing on both ends. Is this like the big day for that? Do you have interviews like blocked out for the next six hours here? Is that what today is? Today is a lot of that. I'm actually flying back down to Florida in a few. You know, we still have our home there. We're in the process of obviously moving back.

But we had just moved down about a year and a half ago. Our daughter's an equestrian. And my wife wanted to be closer to her. and I can kind of, with the previous jobs, I had jump all over the place. So we had just settled in there. So you can be sure that, you know, that was an emotional move going down there.

And now it's going to be a really happy, emotional move heading back as we get readjusted and head back to Philadelphia. So there's just a lot of other things to take care of, including finishing the playoffs with TNT. So I'm heading to Carolina tomorrow to meet up with Edzo and Kenny and the rest of the crew and get ready for what should be a great Eastern Conference final.

I was kidding to ask about that. I wasn't sure if you were still on the schedule for the rest of this. So you have more games coming up. Good God. Take a break. Come on. You have two jobs now. I know.

I know. But those guys have been so great to me. And it's always good to finish what you start. So I'm happy that, you know, both the Flyers and TNT or want me to do it. So I'm going to go do it, have fun with the guys that have been so instrumental and allowing me to gain the knowledge that I have to hopefully move on and do a nice job here in Philadelphia.

We were talking in the intro, you know, there's going to be people out there, Flyers fans out there who have only known you, their whole lives, you know, in their mid-20s now, who haven't known you as anything but the TV personality. I'm curious, like, when you were making this decision to make this jump, like, did you just have the itch to kind of have stake in the game again, or was it about the Flyers specifically? like what made you want to do this now? Yeah, it was only the flyers. This was the only team that I would ever considered it.

And when one of the guys on the team that was searching out, one of the search team members reached out and just asked if I had interest, I thought about it for literally about 10 seconds, and my answer was yes. But this is the only place that I would ever attempted to go through the interview process and eventually become the president of the, the team, nowhere else. This was it. I loved doing my job in television and radio and I've been so

fortunate to have opportunities after my career ended and took advantage of those opportunities. So I'm in a place in my life where I can take a chance and I'm going to do that. It's an educated opportunity. I think the team has potential to turn around. I was a little bit more concerned two years ago than I am after last season with John Tortarella. So I think time I mean, can be everything in life. And I think in this case, it certainly came into play. It is an interesting, like, you know, look window you get, you know, or had gotten at the league from your previous spot to now going in and, you know, have it a few days to kind of get the lay of the land. And like you said, observing, you know, life under torts here this last year.

But how do you feel differently about what the challenges are there and how equipped you guys are to handle them just a couple of days on to the job here? Yeah, I feel good about it. The more I dig into it and the more discussions I have with Danny Breyer, the more I'm impressed that I am with him. I'm really confident that he's got what it takes to be the general manager of the flyers. This is a unique city. We're in a unique position. We have a chance to build this thing back.

And I think Danny is perfect in that regard. I always appreciated the fact that he chose to come here as an unrestricted free agent. That's at a time where he could have gone pretty much. anywhere. He made my job easier doing television by being here. His style of play was not necessarily what the Flyers were known for. He's a really talented but smaller player that had the heart of a champion underneath all of that is boyish looks. There's no question that he was ultra competitive. The fact that he stayed here, studied to become a general manager, obviously made a ton of money. He didn't need to do this. But he put the work in because he has a passion

for it. And I think that's going to serve us well, moving forward. Really looking forward to seeing what he can do with this team as we all kind of embark on this unusual situation with three guys that are going to be really involved in getting this team back on the right track. I thought Daniel Hilford said something interesting a few days ago. He's the Comcast Spectre Corps chairman about Breyer. He said, you know, I mean, look, he'd been interim in the interim role for a little bit. So they knew what they were getting. But he also said that there was like no need for a search, right? Like that's how, uh, all in he is on Danny Breyer is the GM. We know he was a great player. We know like, I think he made a great point by saying

that he didn't need to come to Philly. He chose to come to Philly. I think, I think that's important. But also, like, what have you seen from him over the last couple months that makes him the guy from a GM standpoint, as it certainly seems like he is? Number one, he just has a very keen sense of what this organization needs moving forward. He knows where some changes need to be made because he's come up through the system. He's really watched everything. He's interacted with those in our organization that are making key decisions. We have, you know, a really big job in front of us and our amateur scouting is going to

be gigantic in this process, probably bigger than any other department that we have. He's very familiar with all of those guys, what they do, what they represent, what their strengths are, and maybe in some cases what their weaknesses are. I trust that he's been very thorough in his evaluation because of his inside look at what's going on here. That gives me great confidence that he's going to do an outstanding job. He has a good relationship with John Tortorella. They two gentlemen respect one another. I think that's really important.

They're open for dialogue between the two of them and myself. And the number one goal is to create an environment of accountability that really serves what we want to do here for the city of Philadelphia, our fans, and obviously the organization moving forward. He gets it. He knows what it is and what it takes and what we're looking for. And I have similar thoughts in that regard, but I also like the fact that he sees the game differently than I did as a player. And I think having multiple different ways to view players and teams and organizations, I think it's important to have a lot of different, not a lot of different viewpoints, but a few different viewpoints that can make this ultimately be what we're looking for. So obviously, you know, with your reputation, with your contact list that you're going to bring to this. I wonder how much do you see that as something you can bring to Danny in this job?

He's stepping into this and obviously he's been in the front office here, but you're going to have a list of connections in the franchise around the league. And how much of that do you think kind of you can help maybe bridge some of those divides for him and maybe make the process smoother, I think? Yeah, I think there's a big part of that to this. That's a big component of what I can in some ways help Danny with. and I'm going to do whatever I can to help him in any situation. I'm there for him.

I made that clear to him and at the press conference that when Danny needs something, I'm going to do my best to make sure that that happens and support him with his decisions. So I have some people I can introduce him to that I'm very much in tune with that I've known in a long time, some that I grew up with, and some that I played with, and some that I've met through doing my job in television on a national level. I think all of those relationships matter. I think we want to build on those relationships together. And I think we want to do it in an honest way where if we are making trades,

we want it to be trades that are good for both teams. And then therefore we'll be able to trade with that club again in the future. So we want to build relationships with the men that have worked so hard to build their own teams. I think it's really important. You guys do have some hires to make, right? You have a front office to build out. How involved do you expect to be in those kind of moves? The AGM moves specifically. And I'm just wondering, is there any specific, you know, skill set or personality type or whatever that you're that you're looking for in those roles specifically? Yeah. Danny will be, you know, the number of one person and building out his staff. he's going to have to, you know, build a staff that he trusts, that he recognizes are going to have big roles and helping us get to where we need to go. I'll have input, but I'm going to let him, for the most part, choose, you know, what direction he goes with and the type of people that he gets in those positions based upon his experience over the last, you know, half a dozen years or more of kind of the inner workings of an organization.

I think he has a very good feel for that. I trust that he's going to do a great job in hiring the right people. We want to get this right. And we want the right people to help us get there. And it's going to take hiring the right people from the outside or from within. And I think Danny's the right guy to kind of ultimately decide who, in fact, he's going to go with to make sure that we get this thing in the right place. What are the front offices kind of around the league that you've noticed over? the past decade and a half or so and kind of said, okay, these are the ones I'm kind of going to

draw inspiration on. I really liked how they ran from, you know, what interactions you were able to have kind of with him. Yeah, I'm a big David Poyle fan. I grew up under him in Washington. I've always loved the way he built his teams, was hoping he'd win the Cup in Nashville going back a few years ago when he had his, you know, best shot of doing that. He also did a great job in building the Washington Capitals. He has a formula. It has not brought him ultimate success, but it's made him very successful in the teams that he's been around have been very good teams. So I take a lot from what I learned from him, how he acted, the type of gentleman that he was, what it was like to play for him, how much you appreciated and did not want to let him down

because of the great things he did for you. Pierre Lecois took a lot from Pierre. And my time in Colorado, ultimately the way he treated as players, how he built championship teams, the talent that he brought together and managed, a lot of different personalities. Those are two of the guys that really jump off the page. And of course, Bobby Clark in my time here in Philadelphia, Paul Holmgren as well, those two gentlemen have done a lot in their careers as well. And I guess those would be some of the guys that I would be, you know, looking to as far as looking back on what they had accomplished and what they had done in my eyes firsthand in front of me.

I thought an interesting part last week when they introduced you guys, Torts and Hilfordi both kind of unprompted, honestly, sort of seemed like they were trying to address people who might have been looking for a fresh start, right? Involving people who maybe didn't have ties as strong ties to the organization is maybe you and you and Brier do. torts, I mean, torts said directly, like, why do people think that they're diseased was what was the quote, which is, of course, like, right? That's just like perfect, perfect torts right there. I don't, you know, I don't want, throwing that aside, I, there might be a middle ground here, right, where people who don't see like an inherent problem with, with, with, with, with, with, with, with, with, with, with, with, with, with, we're also maybe a little skeptical of the concept, you know, you know, the, the, the hard times that the franchise has fallen on. the last little bit. So what do you say to those people who are like not, they're not anti, they're not against, they're not against the concept, but they are, you know, their eyebrows raise a little bit when they do bring in, you know, the people who are as close to it is, is you and Danny have been? Yeah, I would say this is different. Different in multiple ways,

but number one, and the way the three of us are going to work as a triumphant. We are going to work together. John Tortorella is going to have a lot to say about player person. now, his opinion is going to be heard. I appreciate what he brings and his knowledge of the game and the way he holds his players accountable. I'm a fan. So I always have been. And I know him personally.

I know him away from the game. I know he's a good man. And that's important. So there is differences. You know, Danny did a lot of his, you know, playing in different cities. He wasn't just the Philadelphia Flyers. But like we've mentioned earlier, it's an important. important part of who he is. And one of the big things that I appreciate him most is he

knows the area. This is a unique city. This is not an easy place. This is a tough place. And you have to have thick skin and you have to have a willingness to try to do what's right at every turn. You're going to be held accountable. We recognize that. We welcome that. We want to prove to our fans that we're doing this for them. This is not us. This is not my team. This is our team. And that's the message that we're going to get across to them. Some of my best friends in hockey come from different places than here. You know, I'd mentioned David Poyle, my relationships with Dale Hunter from Washington,

Craig Barubi in Washington, Rick Tockech throughout the league, you know, players like Scott and Melanby that are in that same, you know, group of friends that we have. Colorado with Joe Sackick, who was one of the first people. people I talked about this particular position, being a president. Chris Jury was there with me in Colorado for a short time. Know him well. Tom Fitzgerald, Colorado. We played together there as well. There's a lot of avalanche connections that I was going to say I sense a theme developing here with a bunch of those names, right? Those are great guys to have around. Yes. They are. And they are great friends too. So we all want to see each other succeed,

except when we're playing one another, but I'm glad to be back in the picture of playing them again. I haven't won and lost in a long time, unless I said the wrong thing. It was the only loss I could get. And fortunately, I made it through that so far. So I'm going to try to win some games now and have some fun doing it,

but at the same time, live through the agony of defeat, go home and not sleep at night because of it and try to fix it. So that's the plan on my end. I got to think that's part of the appeal, right? like having some skin in the game there to have these games, you know, fire you up. Maybe not quite in the same, you know, visceral way you would as a player. But, you know, I'm sure there will be, you know, real stakes here for you.

There, yeah, there's no doubt about it. There is obviously risk to doing this because losing sucks. And I don't like it. Didn't like it when I play. But I want to make sure that we're in a position where we're winning a lot more at some point with patience. Hopefully the near future, but ultimately the players will decide that. But we want to build something where we're contending for a long time, like some of the

great franchises around the league, you know, including the Boston Bruins and the Tampa Bay Lightning, the Red Wings for a long time, the avalanche have done it. You know, you don't have to look far to understand which teams have been the most successful. And we're going to, you know, try to model ourselves after some of those elite teams that have done it the right way. And we want to make sure that we're doing all the research and hard work that we can to get this team in that place. I wanted to bring it back to Philly specifically.

Because it's a one-of-a-kind place. We know this. From the outside, it did feel like there was a need to almost reconnect the franchise with the fan base or the city because, I mean, we saw the anger, right? It was next level even for Philly, I think, in some regards. Is that something you saw? Is that something you felt that the team? there was that need to kind of reinforce, you know, maybe the city's,

the city's faith in the team or the franchise, because it seemed like it was on the way in there, honestly, for a bit. Yeah, it was, there was a lot of apathy. It was not a good situation. You know, it's not where you ever want to be in a sport like hockey in a major U.S. city where you can be forgotten about. And that's what was happening here. So there's a responsibility that we all have to make sure

that we keep this team interesting, that we share with our fans, the plan that we have moving forward. We're not trying to save our jobs this year. We're trying to make this team better. And I think that's something that if we're honest with our fans, that they will buy into, as long as we keep them informed

and visually show them that we're backing up our words. So that's kind of the way that I view it. but we have not been an important team in this city for a while. And we've got some good teams in this city. Now, the Sixers just disappointed again, unfortunately. The Eagles are the model. The Eagles do it right. They have a similar cap situation to what we have.

They have plenty of resources to work, you know, around their cap and make sure that their team is a desirable place for people to arrive at. They've drafted extremely well, used those resources to make. make sure they built up a very competent staff, whether through analytic studies or, you know, through their amateur scouting system, you know, they drafted Jalen Hertz in the second round. Has it ever been a better pick than that? We need to make some of those picks. We need a braiden point in the third round. We need that. So the Eagles are who we want to be. We will never share the spotlight with them, but we would much rather be in their shadow than forgotten about. And

that's what we're working to turn around here. So it sounds like, it sounds like you, I mean, you guys said this last week. You're saying it now. You're in it for the long haul, right? This seems like it's, you know, nobody wants to say rebuild. That's always, that's always a tough, that's always a tough, a tough word to utter. But it sounds like it's going to be a process, right? And is that, and it seems like it's something that the fans are willing to, or are willing and ready to accept.

Yeah, we, we have no choice. So we know that we know we have to build this thing back up. I mean, there's no doubt. And we have to have a direction. We have to stay with the plan. And we've got a plan. We know what we're looking for. We have an opportunity to make things right.

It's a great opportunity. I'm excited about it. I know that Danny and Torts are as well. I appreciate what Torts has done and getting this team started back in the right direction. And we're going to do our part to, you know, provide him with the tools necessary to allow him to guide us into that place. That's the plan. And, yeah, we're going to reiterate it and we're going to back it up and make sure that

we do our best to get this right. I think there's a lot of people out there that are really happy to hear stuff like this coming from someone in your position, for sure. Keith, thanks for the time. So, okay, so you're, what's your schedule for the, for the Eastern Conference final? How many times are we going to see on TV here? potentially. Yeah, so I'll be there in the Florida Carolina series until it's over, and then I'll be at the final. So, I'm looking forward to seeing everybody that I've worked with.

So, you know, for so many years, I didn't have a chance to, like, you know, enjoy some great hockey and, you know, make sure we bring it to the fans. They deserve it. And the players that are playing and have done a great job to get to the final four. It's great. It makes you one of the best. Thanks for the time, Keith. I appreciate it, guys. Thanks so much. Have a great day. You too. See you guys. Great stuff from Keith as advertised. Dude is a born communicator, I think. It's almost like he's worked in TV and radio for the last quarter of a century, right?

Yes. No, he was outstanding. I mean, you can really see why people like him and why the flyers like him. And I think he will be a really good blend with Danny Breyer. And I think, you know, ultimately it's as much as we think about building the team as building the literal locker room to bench, whatever. Building the team in the front office is every bit as important. You've got to have different voices. You've got to have different perspectives.

You've got to have different eras. It's all of it. I think it's really clear that this is the Danny Breyer show in Philly. He's going to, like, for better or worse, like this team is going to have his stamp, whether it's the, Keith told us he's responsible for hiring the AGMs. You know, they trust, they trust him. They like what he brings the table. And I think that makes sense as a mug.

You know, if you trust that guy, let him build it out, give him the keys. And a guy like Keith Jones can be the connected tissue between hockey ops and business ops. It makes sense. I know people seem skeptical at the start of it. And I don't blame them because not a lot has gone right in Philly over the last bunch of years. But, man, it sounds like the model is going to have a chance to work there. Also, he said rebuild. He was fine.

I don't know if he literally said rebuild. But that's coming. Like, he knows it. They're ready for it. And he has no ambiguity about what, you know, he wants to make Danny's job easier, right? That's what he's coming in as his vision. It sounds like he's fully on board with that. To me, you know, he said it was only Philly.

Like, I think these are the things that you want to hear. From a Philly guy. Exactly. And it shows you that it's his passion. He is doing this because he wants to, you know, he wants to make this work for the organization. He's pissed about the Sixers. What's more, what's more Philly than that? He's frustrated by them just like, just like anybody else.

Yep. Good stuff. No. Good stuff from Keith. And again, like, doing stuff like this, jump on with, with goofs with goofballs like us, doing TV with, you know, whatever. He's spending, like we talked, all day doing media appearances. That is why you hire Keith Jones. It's all stuff that readers have to do.

That's one thing. that Danny Brerer doesn't have to do. Let him figure out who he wants to hire for his AGMs. Let him scout players. Let him do whatever else. Let Keith be the front man for the organization. Talk to the media. He does it better than anybody.

Remains part of the media for the time being, by the way. Just let him cook. This makes sense. I'm sold. That's his job. That's his job to sell people like us. And he's good at it. Oh, we're suckers.

We're suckers. we just talked to Keith Jones for 15 minutes. We're like, okay, go flyers. We'll be back with the only good segment on the show. This is the only good segment on the show. It's when we dive into the comment section on the episodes as hidden in the depths of the athletic app. Max, you know how to do this.

You open the app. You click, listen. You click NHL. You find the show cover. Scroll around until you see. see whatever. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. This is them commenting.

I was about to start phrasing these questions. Like, they were commenting on an episode that featured me and Craig. But it didn't because this is your second straight week. So they're commenting on episodes now that feature the two of us. I think that's the way it should be. We talked to Will Smith last night or last week. This is what folks are reacting to. Max, we talked about

someone brought up how there should be like the Russo army in asking if there are any other any other writers that had like fandoms following them basically or fan armies.

E&S has an easy one here has an easy suggestion. I think Shane of Goldman has enough of a falling to be known as Shane as Goldman. And they are all reply guys. Like it is, it is perfect. Oh, we love reply guy.

Oh, baby. That's like, that's like one of the only good concepts that we've gotten out of Twitter generally is the overall idea of a reply guy who just, you know, kiss his ass and feels the need to weigh in and praise people at every possible turn.

I guess there could be negative and positive reply guys. Yeah, there's like the explain your own joke back to you reply guys. There's the, Like, Shana has a lot of the, like, negative ones, too, where they're, you know, she'll, you know, watch the games because she does so much data stuff. Yeah, because she's a woman who writes about hockey. Yeah, well, there's that, too, yeah. You know, and she has the podcast, so I think, I think her following certainly should have a name.

Is it the gold men? The gold men? That's the only question. I mean, that's Andy's suggestion. Max is Boltman? My Boltman, yeah. Bob M. I wish you wouldn't have edited out the part of the Will Smith interview where he yelled, keep Austin Matthew's name out your mother effing mouth and then slap Sean in the face.

Please release a subscriber only bonus content. Thanks and sorry. Yeah, I know. We don't want to get well in trouble. We were in the same way. That's the other funny thing about the interview. We were in the same room. It was crazy. I know it didn't sound like it. You're sitting across from me. It's cracked me. We love Will Smith jokes. We love Will Smith's name jokes in 2023. He still can't believe that happened. Shauna M. It's talking about, we spoke for a little bit about the Blackhawks winning the Badaard lottery. This seems like it happened like last month to me now.

Right? This seems like it happened a really long time ago. I don't know if it was just because I was working, because I was working that series in Edmonton and stuff. But that seems like something that happened sometime in the last six to eight weeks. Shauna says she hopes Badaard says I refuse to play for them. This is the one time I won't blame the player for saying, nope, not going to happen.

That's not going to happen. That's not going to happen. Not going to happen. We'll never happen again in hockey. No. Eric Lindrosse was one of a one. As someone who spoke in Eric Lindrosse at length, he remains one of a kind too.

I offended slurms by saying that people didn't know what getting mossed was. He says, Max is going to try to tell me Griffey isn't cool next episode. I would never try to tell you that. Griffey's very cool. I will try to tell you, unfortunately, don't ask your 11-year-old if they know who Griffey is. Can you, it's okay. So if you don't remember Keith Jones playing hockey, you definitely don't remember Pete Ken Griffey Jr.

No, but there's enough highlights of like Sports Center top 10 and like whatever, right? Okay, sure, but do you remember him playing on the Mariners or do you remember playing on the Reds? Reds, yes. Randis, okay. Oh, hi to Parrakeen, Griffey. shoes. Early Ichero is to me the Mariners. Like my childhood mariner's was like early Ichero. You know what's, you know what sucks about about conversations like this? It's not even that it's not even that you're young. Because you're, you're almost 30. Like you're been,

right? Like you're, you're there. I'm about as old as you were when we first met. You're getting old. You're getting old like the rest of us. It's that I am now like, I can't even hang. I can't even hang with the dudes who are getting old. That's how old I am. Like, there's nothing, there's nothing young about being like, oh, I remember Echiro on the Mariners. It happened 20 years ago. Do you remember, you weren't in the office that often at sporting news,

but Adi Joseph used to flame me because we were doing, we were having a conversation to some of this effect. And I guess I said something to the effect of like, I have like vague memories of 9-11. And he let me hear that one about every day for the rest of my injunction. That's where we're at. Not all of us were in high school and shit like that happened. I was in first grade.

Yuck. Robert S. As a proud member of the Gary Vettman Focus Group, I can report, we all agree that it's great. An original six team won the lottery, which is waited so they had no reason to tank. Many of us had tears in her eyes as a card flip that night. Yeah. I mean, there's, you know, one or two big reasons to be angry that the Chicago Blackhawks won the lottery. but there's a whole bunch of them that the league is psyched about,

whether they want to admit it or not. Probably it's got a lot of commas and there's a dollar sign. And there's a dollar sign that starts. Of course not. Cool because they, yeah, they don't have to. Didn't they,

aren't the blackhawks like kind of the main reason? The blackhawks, I guess in Montreal. Like, isn't that the reason that they went to that like 24 or whatever team bubble playoff the one year? It was just true. It was like,

we need the revenue. What do you want us to do? For sure. Like, it's all in the game. I do appreciate it. most of the time, I appreciate the league's total transparency in that in that regard, right? Like, they don't, they're not, they're not trying to pretend that they're anything other than what they are.

People were pissed at me, by the way, about, like, saying that about the Blackhawks last week, about being like, no, they should have, they should have taken, like, take a couple first round picks. I got major pushback from that. One dude in particular was, like, coming at me in the replies, and I was just ignoring them. And then he, and then he DMed me the same thing and was like, why. Why haven't you said this before? Like, this is like, John, I come lately. It's, I've said it. I've said it before.

I know. This dude wanted me to comb through all my million podcast appearances over the last two years and tell me, like, give me like a, give them like a timestamp moment where I was like, they should have taken multiple draft picks away from. Like, whatever. They should have. I said it before. And even if I wouldn't have said it before, like, people are, like, this isn't something

that came up regularly, right? We haven't been sitting here panicking over whether or freaking out over whether the Blackhawks would win the Bedard lottery. It just happened. It just happened for real. You don't have to have like priors on this. I don't know. I haven't. This guy truly wanted like evidence of me, you know, walking around with the sandwich board sign saying like doc the Blackhawks two or three first round picks.

I'm like, sorry that didn't happen, man. Like whatever. Yeah. No. My thing is I think it's not true for you, certainly. But I just mean there were plenty of people out there who I think were just looking for a way to, in their mind, say, this shouldn't have happened, right? And whether it was that or something. I'm not invalidating the anger. But I mean, there was a lot of revisionist like, you know, for sure. I think his point of like, where was this like about the punishment when the punishment came down is not totally unwarranted. Doesn't mean it's not true though, you know. Right. And also like nobody owes, you know, listeners. Like this dude was, this dude was just demanding that I like, the, the, the, that, the, the, he was just demanding that I like, the. The. I go back and I'm like, dude, it's not.

Not happening. Okay. Who's next here? I like Harrison G's. Harrison G. What team is most likely to blow things up when they should quote unquote run it back? Most likely to blow things up when they should run it back. Alternatively, what team do you see running it back when they should really just blow things up?

Oh, baby. Do you have an answer for this? all right so I'm thinking about this. Are we going to get through this without talking about the maple leaves is probably the better question. Well, it just comes down to whether you think they're going to run it back. Because if they do run it back, I think we can say that that's probably, they've done that too many times to do it again.

But I do think they're going to make a big change. So I don't think that that's going to be the answer. I think, just hold on, while we're talking about the leaves, the one problem with them. The one big problem with them is that there's no magic bullet. There's no like single person, especially out of the core four where you're like, this is the guy that needs to go. Like they all bring stuff to the table. They're all, you know, some are more flawed than others. But none of these guys are, you know, very obvious problems. The issue is they just have too much money devoted to the four of them by themselves. And that's what the problem is. That's what it was always going to be.

and that's the thing that they're probably going to try to remedy over the course of this over the course of this off season. I would trade John DeVarres if I could, if I were, if I were it's easier to say. If you could. And honestly, we're talking about Bajar and the Blackhawks. And last week we talked about, do they regret

showing Jonathan Taves the door, you know, so early? If Toronto wants, Traveris would have to accept this. He's got the full no move. I kind of don't think you would accept this. But if you're the Blackhawks, would you help Toronto out of that problem and just say, hey, John Tavares, like, you're coming to us. Connor Bedard, you live with John now. John's on your wing. You know, that's not a bad situation for the Blackhawks.

They got more cap space than they're even going to be able to spend. Did you just think that? Or have people been talking about this? I've been talking about for a couple of days. I don't know if the internet is talking about yet. I think it would be a no-brainer. I love it. Oh, I love it.

You just stumbled on something great. Hell yes. If Toronto gets a hold of it, then everyone's going to talk about it. Oh my God. But I don't think the first would accept it. It's almost moot. You need to pitch this and write it before one of the Leafs guys actually realizes. But he wouldn't accept it.

That's the thing, right? It's like it's dependent on the no move. That's why it's tough. He's got no move. These guys sign this shit for a reason. You know, that's why it's why you don't give them out all that often. Who should blow it up? But, okay, so who's, who's, the two teams that have me that come to mind.

Who's going to not blow it up? Are the Islanders? Mm-hmm. and the penguins. But I don't know that I think the penguins should capital B blow it up. I think they just probably should have done what it seemed like they might have done last summer. And then they didn't do that. I disagree with that.

You do? I think bringing back those, bringing back the big boys made sense. It was the cascading errors after that by Hextall that, that doom them. Those dudes, those dudes were good. They didn't lose because.

There was no doubt about that. Crosby was. was unbelievable. But that was never a question. That's what I mean. I don't ever mean like capital B. They had the chance. That's the, that's the issue is that they had it, is that they had the chance because of the work they did last offseason in particular. Ron Exel had basically three different sets of chances to get the supporting cast, right? And he blew all of them. You know? But yeah, I think, um, I, and there's no way to know what's going to happen there because um, they don't have a GM.

or any or any front office really. And I don't think it even necessarily has to be Crosby and Malkin and blow it up, right? But I probably would have let Letang. Right. I would not have made the move for Petrie. I would have kept Marine. I mean, I'm just going to say all these things that sound obvious in hindsight,

but I do believe that that was the chance to reset. Those are the things that they did that, like, I was on board with bringing back Malkin and in Latang. Yeah. That made sense to me because of the deals that they signed. You got them for. 75 cents or on a dollar, right? The issue is, the issue is petri.

The issue is maybe extending Brian Ross, like doing all this stuff where, you know, you lock yourself into this, to this supporting cast. And that's, and that's going to be the interesting thing to see, but it depends on, depends on who they hire. Who the hell knows? And now it's the Islanders, right? Like, they're in a, you know, they're bringing, I think I saw a report Lamarillo is going to extend.

I mean, no shocker there, obviously, but like, what is going to fundamentally push them forward. I guess you're just banking on full year of Barzell Horvatt is going to be it. You're thinking that Barzell Horvatt, Anders Lee, is it going to be, you know, is going to carry you. Because the other pieces what do you

like, they're like, okay, we need to find a, we need to find a taker for Josh Bailey. Like, all this shit is just like, are we, we're still, we're still doing this, right? They're, I mean, they're, we just talked about Seattle. They were, they were proto Seattle, right? like three, four years ago.

But I don't know that they have, the age is taking effect here. And I don't know if they can maintain this. Totally. And they don't have any easy route to clearing space or meaningfully improving. You know, like this is a team that just pulling up, pulling up cap geek here. They're projected to have a, their cap hit is already over $77 million, right? and I'm sure they would like to keep Pierre Engval

like that's a guy they traded for that gave him decent minutes. You got to flesh out the rest of that roster. Zach Parisi's a UFA. He gave them big minutes. Scott Mayfield, he's a relevant player.

They need a backup for Sorokin. So then it turns into like how exactly is this team is supposed to get better without fundamentally taking away from the stuff that's made them good in the first place? I don't see how it happens.

They're the answer there. Thank you, Harrison G. That was a very good question. Christopher B. Seems like some comments got deleted, but let me post again. Thanks for jinxing the oilers, Sean, but please don't write about Vegas next.

You're welcome, Christopher B. Happy to jinx the Oilers. Happy to jinx any Canadian team. Maybe that was my aim from the start, frankly. We're not deleting comments. I'll say that. I mean, it's probably just a glitch. A couple weeks ago, we couldn't even find the comments because of the glitching.

Oh, my God. Once we actually got done from the right person, that thing got fixed very, very, very quickly. Maxie, down goes the Leafs. Florida man takes out Kean and his team. No more constant. Leaves stock crammed down our throats is Michael Kay. Michael Kay, news for you, brother. The offseason is young.

Is Michael Kay the one who's always dragging on Craig for going to Michigan State? That's right. in Michael Kay specifically, like I said, we have months worth of off-season shit coming up. So bad news. The Leafs talk. The Leafs talk never ends. Never.

You will never escape it. That's why we try to minimize it here, because it gives a shit, really. Alex R, as a Canadian crossing the DMZ to the comments section, I will support you guys and say I only listen to the show when I see an interesting guest, and I can come back days later to listen to it. The non-timely portion of the show is the only reason I come here.

Alex, it's fair. You appreciate you. You appreciate you. As long as you keep showing up. No matter what. It's all it matters. All right, Maxie, I think we're down here. Yeah.

Before we get out, I wanted to just kind of note that big day for hockey in Arizona will see what people in Tempe decide to do as far as that arena project is concerned. Lots of people across North America will be watching the results. there. It'll be interesting. No matter what happens, shout out to the coyotes fans because they do exist. I've heard some people doubted

sometimes, but there are people there that care about that team and care about the sport. Thinking of them today, right? Because this needs to end at some point. Hope works out for them. Maxi, I'm getting my show sheet in front of me. Wednesday.

Rob Pizzo, Jesse Granger, and Michael so welcome Doug McLean to the Roundtable on the Athletic Hockey Show. These guys are great. I had some quality Jesse time over the last couple weeks in Vegas. Great, great coworker. He's an ass-tiered coworker. Good, dude. Yeah, we love them.

Also, don't forget to subscribe to the Athletic Hockey Show on YouTube. That's YouTube.com slash at sign the Athletic Cocky Show. Unfortunately, correct Cussons returns next week, I guess, probably. Supposedly. Yeah. thanks to Keith Jones he was great we'll see what happens next for Philly

thanks to you Max Boltonin you love you buddy love you too Wednesday you have another show so you take a break and then you come back right I think it's the score

yeah we got one we got one before too long here I think there's a June on the books all right well I'll talk to you then and at no point between today and the moment we record that's just how we roll

next week's show Just in courtesy of producer Jeff will be on Monday It'll be me and Craig on Monday We'll be the Monday boys Hashtag Monday Boys 3Zs I guess there's some Canadian holiday that day

Whatever We'll see you then Happy New Year