The Athletic Hockey Show - Nils Lundkvist traded to the Dallas Stars, prospect tournament recaps, listener questions, and more

Episode Date: September 23, 2022

Max, Corey, and new regular cohost FloHockey’s Chris Peters discuss the New York Rangers trading Nils Lundkvist to the Dallas Stars, Corey’s trip to the Prospects Challenge in Buffalo, Max’s trip to the Traverse City Prospect Tournament, and Chris’ trip to the Rookie Faceoff in San Jose, and a bunch of listener questions in this week’s mailbag to close things out.Get a 6 month subscription to The Athletic for just $1 a month when you visit http://theathletic.com/hockeyshow Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the Athletic Hockey Show Prospect Series. Hey, everybody, Max Boltman here alongside Corey Prondman for another episode and a new season of the Athletic Hockey Show's prospect series. And we also, this season, have a brand new regular co-host, Flohockey's Chris Peters. We are super excited to have Chris on board with us this year. And we get to break him in right away with some trade news on the prospect front because Nils Lundkvist is going from the Rangers, to the stars for a conditional first rounder and a conditional fourth rounder. So new guy, let's go right to you for your thoughts. Yeah, you know, I was surprised it got done this quickly.

I thought it was going to be a little bit of a dragged out process once Lundquist and his agent said, hey, we're not going to report. We want to get a trade. And that, you know, obviously can limit a team's leverage. But when you have a player like Nils Lundquist, who is still young, who's only got one season of North American hockey, pro hockey. experience under his belt. You know, there's a lot of upside left there for a team to get.

So Dallas goes in. They fill a need. An offensive defenseman, you know, he's a two-way defenseman with some really good intelligence, good mobility and things like that. But, you know, the question is, is last year was only okay for Nils Longquist. It wasn't an easy transition necessarily. It obviously didn't go well with the Rangers at the NHL level. And then in the HAL, it took him a while to get going.

And so how much of an adjustment period remains? for Nils Lundquist. But as a highly intelligent player, as a guy that I think that, you know, has had success at the SHL level, I mean, one of the best seasons ever by a young defenseman in that league. You know,

I think that he is absolutely, you know, capable of being a high-end player. But I really think Chris Jury did a good job of, of not settling for something just because a player demanded a trade. He got a first-round pick out of the deal, gets another conditional pick. You know, meanwhile, Dallas top 10 protects their pick.

So, you know, that's the Connor Baderd year and you don't want to necessarily waste anything there. But yeah, but I think that overall, I thought it was a fair trade. And I think it's going to take some time for this one to really play out. And we'll have to wait and see how Nils makes that transition. Yeah, I agree with the law what Chris said there. If you look at where I rated Niels Lungfist this past summer, both in the New York Rangers farm system rankings and then in my overall under 23, I had him rated still as a projected top four defensemen, which would equate to someone who would still have first round value.

And I think I had him pretty high on the U23 list as someone I thought could be essentially a worth a mid-first rounder, which is what he went for. You know, probably we'll see where Dallas finishes this season. But I think saying it'll be a mid-to-mid late first seems realistic. What's interesting, as kind of Chris alludes to, is I think if you look at the player, which is not the biggest defenseman, you know, It was good, not an amazing skater, but his hockey sense is outstanding. He can really shoot the pocket. He's got a ton of offense. I think this is a guy you're hoping,

whether he's going to be a PP1, PP2 guy in the NHL. It'll be some sort of dynamic there with Mero Heiskenen, hopefully, where one of those two guys are running each of those two powerplay units. What's interesting is that the league knew that the Rangers were up against the wall here. Not only because the player demanded a trade, he demanded a trade because there was nowhere to play him. You look on the right side of that blue line, and all the young defensemen they had coming up.

Again, you have obviously the veterans like Jacob Truba and Adam Fox, and you had Brayne Schneider played really well last year, and it seemed like Zach Jones had kind of passed him based on his playing the American League. Everyone in the league knew there was nowhere to play this guy. And we've kind of talked on this podcast for at least a year, maybe even longer, about how there was going to be an inevitable trade of one of these top New York Rangers Blue Line prospects. And like Chris said, sorry, it is interesting that,

despite the league knowing the Rangers didn't really have much leverage, that they still extracted what I would say is fair value for that prospect. It's interesting. It does make me wonder, like, typically, I think if a team's going to be able to manage to do that, it would maybe indicate that there was a real market. Like, there wasn't just going to be a single bitter situation here. So I think that's interesting. What I want to know, though, is like with Lundkvist, obviously everyone knows how good he was in the

SHL. I think historically good for a player that young in the SHL. He comes over. It's only about a half point per game in the AHL. And that's where for me, you were kind of one. Okay, I'm sure he's going to get that opportunity, like you said, Corey, in Dallas. And we figure he'll take one of John Klingberg, some of John Klingberg's power play time. But did that scare you at all off?

I mean, I know where he's ranked for you. But like, how concerned, I guess, should Dallas be about that? It is concerning. I think because of the size and, again, he's not overly physical. He's a good on amazing skater. There really is concerns about how good defending he's going to be in the NHL. The production in the American League wasn't great. Like I said, like I said, there was Zach Jones down there in the American League,

and it seemed like Jones passed Lunkfist and got more opportunity down there. I would have to look up those numbers, but I believe he got more time to play time. I could be wrong on that fact. But it is a concern for a guy who was offensively driven, who didn't put up big offensive numbers in the American League. It is a concern, but the body of work there with Lungfist is really, really strong. Not just to mention those S.H. jealous seasons.

Like, you go back to that world championship he played in where he was outstanding at that level too. I think this is a really good player. And it does make me think, as you said, I think there was probably a good market for this player, given the return they got. Because usually when you see a young top prospect to get traded at that age, especially if it's not for a rental or something where it's a team trying to buy to go all in, something young asset for a young asset, typically something happened along the way that made you

think, oh, this team fell out love with this player. But really, this was just a case of they had too many good young defense prospects that something had to give. I think they would have liked to keep Munkfist, but it just didn't work out. All right, let's get in from there. A lot of hockey happened over the last week. And fortunately, we have some good representation here. Corey, you were at the Buffalo tournament. Chris, you were out in San Jose. I was in Traverse City. We can kind of start freely here, but I think we should lead with Buffalo. That's where the number one overall pick and number two overall pick from this past draft class were. So, Corey, why don't you kick us off here?

What stood out to you in Buffalo? Well, I think both of those players, the first overall pick being your ice, Slavkovsky, and the second overall pick being Simon Nemech with New Jersey. I thought both of them had strong events. Slavkovsky's second game was solid and amazing. His first game, though, I thought he was excellent. You saw him in that game, and it was evident why he was the first overall pick. A physically dominating a winger who can really skate.

great skill. He was, you know, showing good offensive creativity. The points didn't come for either of them in real significant numbers, but I think, you know, you saw the attributes that made him so desirable as prospects. But Nemich was just so how good as hockey sense was, how smooth and efficient as puck movement is. Well, being a solid defender at the same time, like I think those two guys, for me, were the, maybe not the best, most productive. players of the tournament, but look not surprisingly the best pro prospects. With the caveat that Jake Sanderson did play in the one game, and obviously was his usual very good self. Probably for me, the two other ones that really stood up for the tournament

that made were most interesting was, one, the continuing strong play of Yuri Kulich, who builds off his MVP performance of the U-18s. He had a very good development camp in Buffalo. Then he goes to the world juniors as an 04 and is among Czechia's best play. players there, and then he comes to this camp, and he looks good again. And it seems like he's going to start in Rochester in the American League. And I think this is a guy who could actually hold up in the American League as an 18-year-old and help the Amherks win games.

And finally, one of the most interesting things to me was the play of Owen Beck, the 33rd pick in the most recent draft. And he was a guy who there was a lot of intriguing debate about him going into the draft. this is a guy who was rated pretty highly both among people like myself who write about prospects NHL Central Scouting etc but he wasn't this like overly

physically imposing forward he's 511 6-0 I think he was under a point per game in the OHL I could be mistaken about that but it wasn't like his offense was all that significant so you know it's like okay he's not that big it's good skater I wouldn't call him a blazer so excited on this player

and whenever you watch him he looked like this really well-rounded, two-way centermen, competed well, showed good hockey sense, showed skill that maybe wasn't always translating into his production to go with, you know, again, he has good feet. And I thought at this tournament, he just showed, hey, I'm a good pro prospect. I'm not saying he's going to be a second-line center or he was saying he's going to be a third line center in the NHL, but he looks like he's a good pro. He could be a good pro with time.

That is obviously not next season. What did you think of Beck when you watched him last season, Chris? You know, he was always one of those guys where you could see flashes of something. And it was always just kind of like, you know, he wasn't a player that I would always get overly excited about. But you'd see the tools. Like, you know, I thought he was pretty good at the Top Prospects game. Like he was a guy that kind of, you know, stood out among his peers where it was like, you know, he can play a little bit stronger. I thought, you know, he had a decent two-way value to him.

But yeah, I mean, you know, he's one of those guys that I had a hard time getting to read. on last season. He was one of those guys where I also would have liked to have gotten some more live viewings of him. I watched them quite a bit on video. So I think the bulk of my viewings are off a video and I just felt like, you know, I was always trying to pin him down. Like, what is he going to be? Like, what exactly is he going to be? Is he a middle six guy? Is he, you know, does he have top six upside? Like those types of things that were harder for me to judge. But I mean, you know, the fact that he's performed well at this at this rookie event isn't necessarily a huge surprised because I think the foundation of his game is pretty strong and that he has a good

enough hockey sense to compete and a good enough compete level where he's going to be able to hold his own against top guys. So not surprised here he did well. And on the flip side, maybe some top guys who I thought would have better weeks. One would have been Justin Barron, who got in two of the games, Kand Gully gone in one game from Montreal and played well. Barron played in two games And I thought he was fine He showed his good skating Maybe he'd occasional good play with the puck

But for a guy who had already played in some NHL games And a good, I thought was a very good rookie pro season I thought he would be more impactful And sometimes guys who are better You know, older players who are going to be part of the NHL Sometimes they sleepwalk through these things But in general I thought he would be better And I guess

The other two first rounders New Jersey had there with Alts Holts and Nolan Foote. They were both solid, particularly Holtz got a couple of goals, one including an overtime winner, which was a really nice snipe from the circles, as he's prone to do. I wouldn't have said either of them really kind of

drove the bus, it even strength, and made, they made plays, they got their scoring chances, but I thought, particularly given how much pro experience they had, particularly Holt, how good he was in American last year, I thought he would come in and dominate, I wouldn't say he was good. I don't think he

dominated like a guy who I thought is pushing to be a top six, four, top nine, four to the NHL to start the year. Corey, one of the other guys you mentioned in the write-up that we had on the athletic was Shane Pinto. And, you know, he's an interesting one because, you know, we expect him to play a meaningful role this year on the senators. It sounds like he looked ready to do something like that. Yeah, he only got into the one game like Sanderson did.

But in that one game, I thought he was very good. He was doing his thing where he was winning a lot of battles, being reflective down the middle, showing his skill and creating offensive chances. I think he got the one goal there too in that game. He did get dinged up in the middle of the game, which he didn't want to see because he's a guy who had already a lot of injury issues in the last few years. But he came back, looked like he was fine,

looked like he was ready for training camp. And he was going to be Ottawa, second line center before he got injured at the beginning of the season last year. So no surprise that this guy looks like a guy He was a real good pro, and I think he'll be a big factor in the senator in the lineup this coming year. All right. Let's get back into it here with the Trevor City tournament, which I was at.

Five teams there, a little smaller crowd than the typical Trevor City. But it was good because I got to see almost every game in totality there. And the team that stood out to me the most probably was Columbus. No surprise, they have so many high picks on that team. But I thought both Kent Johnson and Denton, Matechuk, were really, really, good. Matajuk, I think, might have been the guy who surprised me the most. You know, recent high pick, obviously, so you want him to be good, but so poised, so smooth. He had a ton of controlled exits and just really shift to shift. Might have been the most noticeable Columbus guy for me at the

tournament. I think you saw the mobility, the brain, the stick, you know, just the whole package, I think, looked really good. You felt like with him and David Jurechuk on a pair that you were watching a top two NHL pair for many years to come, probably. Yeah, that's, that's amazing. I mean, I think Mateech was my number three defensemen in the last draft. And so, you know, I just, I really have a lot of time for the way that he plays. I think that he's a modern NHL defenseman with the ability to move the puck and the skating ability. And so, you know, no surprise to hear that he's done well because he just does have such confidence on the puck. It's remarkable to watch him kind of take his game to the next level.

He can take over a shift or two, you know, when you need him to. He can make plays. So, yeah, that's great. And then, I mean, Kent Johnson, you know, he should be in close to, you know, midseason form the way that he played at the world juniors. And, you know, just the skill level. I mean, Columbus has really built a nice little core for their future with some of their draft picks here. And, you know, it's based a lot on skill.

I mean, there's just a lot of skill players that they have guys that are going to be offensive performers. And I'm fascinating to see kind of where they go next. But, I mean, those are two guys that, you know, I think that they're going to be able to hang their hat on as time moves on. And, you know, but Tatechuk still has as time. You know, he doesn't have to be there next year. So, you know, a lot of time. But I think, you know, Kent Johnson, it's like, hey, take a step and be a big part of this team next year.

And I think he can do that. Ken Johnson's played so much hockey in the last year. He has. He really has. He had the, obviously, his college season. Then he had the Olympics. He went to the world championships, I believe. Yes.

Then he came, went back to the world junior. and now already it's training camp time. First, yeah, first player in history to do all of those international tournaments in one year, I'm pretty sure. That would add up, obviously, unique circumstances in that regard. Matejac one is interesting. Obviously, I had him rated really highly too, as he was, I believe also my third-rated defenseman going into the draft. But he was not a guy who among NHL people I talked to going into and even after the draft. thought was a guy who was going to go or should have gone in the top 15.

Obviously, Columbus has agreed, and I do know some people who were big Mate Chuck advocates. But I think there was a concern that this is a 5-11 defenseman. He's pretty talented, great skater, has offense, but it's not Quinn Hughes or something like that. So there was a concern like, hey, is this one going to work? And we'll see with time whether it does or not. Why in training camp tournament does not determine whether it's going to work hard on in the

NHL, but he is, as Chris said, very fun to watch. And I think because he's such an excellent skater, I think that he has a really good chance to make it work in the pro rink. So that pick in general will be very interesting to monitor over the coming years. Really quick on Johnson, one thing that did stand out to me, I mean, he's obviously extremely skilled player. He had brought a ton of offense. I think he either tied for or was right around the tournament scores.

I did think it was a little interesting for how much men's hockey he's played. I did think he still looked like he could be kind of out physicaled at several points, especially early against the St. Louis team that was probably the most physical in the tournament. I didn't think he was amazing in that game, partly because of that, and yet he still comes out with three points, but it does make me wonder, when we're talking about his NHL prospects, like, how much is that something he's going to have to figure out? He does have a pretty wiry frame, and, like, he has never been the most, physical player, the most interior-minded forward you're ever going to see.

So I could see that first NHL stretch maybe being a little bit bumpy for those reasons. I mean, he still has to make the team. But even if he does make the team, I can see, again, he's not a blazing skater. He's not the most physical. So, I mean, it's just an elite skill, and it remains to be seen how quickly that's going to translate to the NHL. Yeah. The other thing that stood out to me, Sebastian Kosa from Detroit. He's a guy who did not play well at this tournament last year. I didn't think he played all that well at development camp, although I had COVID, so I was watching on YouTube for that for Detroit. But he was the guy who I thought, obviously at the World Juniors, he's the backup. He was a guy who I thought needed a big tournament. And to me, he was the clear cut best goalie at the event. Yeah, with goalies, it's always difficult to, you know, read into different stretches.

You know, there are plenty of guys that will have tough stretches. And sometimes they're in these high profile, small short-term events. And sometimes it's the world juniors or wherever it might be. But I think in Coase's case, it's just about, you know, kind of building himself back up a little bit. He didn't, you know, he didn't necessarily have the amazing season. But he was a top, he was a goaltender on a great team last year. And I think that, you know, there was a reason that he wasn't the starter for Canada at the world juniors. You know, there was a, there's still development ahead.

And so even though you draft the guy in the first round, the timeline doesn't really change for a lot of goalies. You know, there aren't a ton of guys that are going to be able to come in as quickly as you might like. But he doesn't have to in Detroit, obviously, with with the goaltenders that they have. So that's good. But yeah, I agree, Max. I think having a chance to build confidence going in the NHL training camp, is going to be huge for him, especially since he didn't have a great time last year, being able to bring that back, getting a chance to be around NHL players,

seeing kind of where he stacks up and finding out, you know, what the next steps are going to be for him. He's got a long, he's still got a lot of development ahead of him. He's, he's a big guy, he's quick. He's got to refine a little bit. You know, he can get a little wild back there. So those are the things that we'll have to wait and see. But, I mean, I'm excited to see, you know, when the Red Wings have their hands on them, you know, the opportunity to work with them as closely as they're going to be working with him.

what that does for his game ultimately. But I mean, great to hear, you know, for a guy like him, I'm sure Red Wings fans are pumped that, you know, their first round goalie was able to have a good performance against his peers. And while he didn't have a great season, I would say quite out of well-wing season, given where he was drafted, he did have a very strong postseason, I thought. True, true. For the oil kings.

And you mentioned getting their hands on him. I think that's really one of the big debates with COSA right now, is when do the Red Wings get their hands on him? My personal lean is turn him pro next season and put him in the American League. But I know in my discussions with Max that that is by no means a sure thing right now. Yeah, I mean, they have two goalies in Victor Bratstrom and Okina. They just signed. They can go with those two pretty easily.

In fact, that Bratstrom, I thought, was pretty good down the stretch even in Grand Rapids. And so are you going to go three? Are you going to send one of those guys to the coast? You know, Coast is your future. So I understand if you do that, you do it. But I do think he has to keep this up a little bit to make that, make them inclined to do that with one of those two guys. Yeah, I think if he has a good rest of his camp, I think you have to put him in the American League. And even if you have two other guys down there, you like, you make it work, whether that's making one of those guys kind of go away or you're sharing the ice time or something like that.

At the end of the day, COSA is much more valuable than those two in all likelihood. going forward that you will have to find a way to make it work. But kind of what we've been talking about is no guarantee that he will be in there. So we'll be curious to see how his camp goes. Yeah. I think for him he needs to show that he can, he's ready to be able to handle 25 to 30 HL games or so, something in that range. If he is, then you figure the rest out.

But if you think he's going to be your three, that I think you prize the reps. Two more guys at Traverse City that I just wanted to touch on really quick. Christian Kairu from Dallas, honestly pretty similar to Matan. Hey, Chuck, in what the profile was that he brought smarts, mobility. I thought he really handled himself super well for a first year player at a tournament with a lot of 20-year-olds. And then Zach Bullduke, I just thought the offense stood out to me, created chances, finished chances, had a good setup and showed a little bit of physicality. Liked him better on the wing than at center.

But those are the other two guys who I think kind of made my standouts list. And Logan's Dank of him probably could have been on there too. You always see the motor and the speed from him. But I thought those were the other guys who kind of stood out in TC. Kyru is an interesting one. I don't think the skating is at the same level as Matechuk, although I do think it's good enough. I think his main assets is his brain and the amount of plays he can make. He's an offensive threat with his vision and his shot.

And Kyru is a guy I highlighted as well as a standout from Canada as a World Junior camp in the summer. So that's a good trend line there for a guy who did trend up during his draft season. And if he keeps up this kind of strong play, it would. wouldn't surprise me to see him be in a little junior mix for Canada this upcoming December. I don't have him on my projected roster when we did that a couple of weeks ago, but we'll see what happens over the first half of the season, but I think this is a guy who's played his way into that mix. It's interesting you mentioned that part about both doaks.

I know when we talk to Jeremy Rutherford, I know they've discussed, even though he's been a winger, almost his entire junior career, there's been this discussion about trying him at center. And it's interesting to hear that it didn't maybe go as successfully as maybe they had hoped. Well, a couple of games, mind you. But I thought Bull Duke was really impressive this past year in Quebec on the wing. Yeah, I mean, they played him really the first game, I believe, at center. And I didn't really – I mean, it was hard to notice anyone from St. Louis in that game, frankly.

They lost seven to one. But I didn't really notice him much. And then the next two games he was on the wing, and I felt like I noticed him a lot. And to me, that's kind of a two plus two situation. So that's where I come out of it landing. Chris, you were in San Jose. And I want to take us there now. You would hope, I think, if you're a San Jose fan that this was the William

Meckland show, did it pan out that way. You know, it certainly did in the first game, you know, three points. A through an overtime game winner where he pulled off, you know, just a like a vintage Dennis Savard era on the backhand spinorama. It was great. You know, Olin Zalweger is the defenseman that he turned. turned around a bit there. He basically saw his skates going one way.

He's like, well, I'm going to take him this way. And then he ended up finishing on the rebound. And, you know, I think that Eklund looks stronger this year than he did. I didn't like him. I was at the rookie face off last year in Arizona as well. I thought that he was only okay there. He had moments. This time, it was much more consistent.

He was driving play. He was making plays. He was playing with speed. And he's a guy that looks like an NHL player more than he did last. year. And so, you know, he didn't have a great season in Sweden last year in terms of goal scoring. He said, I'm focused more on taking the puck to the net. I'm focused more on creating more chances. I don't just want to be a pass first guy. The shot looks really good. That's actually something John McCarthy, the head coach of the San Jose Barakuta, who was in

development for the sharks last year. He said his shot is greatly improved. And he did. He scored on an absolute rifle shot on the power play on the first game. Second game didn't get as many points, but he was active. He was all over the place. He was able to make plays. He was difficult to defend. And he was, you know, showing some two-way value as well.

He was really, you know, disrupting plays through the neutral zone. So I think that that was huge for him. He was, you know, and Thomas Bordolo had a really nice event as well. Based on the things that they were, that the sharks were kind of saying while we were there is, I think it's more likely than not he's going to start in the HL this year.

And be kind of, they want him to get. get a little bit more comfortable working on the interior. They don't want them just be on the perimeter, which he is really good at and picking spots. So they want to get them a little bit more inside. But those two guys were, I thought, heads above pretty much every other prospect that the sharks had there. And they should be. That's what they're kind of, that's where they were drafted and obviously where they've been,

their development has gone. You know, and there was one guy that I thought really needed that I particularly wanted to see what he was going to do in this event. And that's Brent Clark from the Kings. Did not make Canada's World Junior team. You know, they didn't, even when they had injuries, he wasn't the first call-up. You know, so he had a really good tournament. It was, and he did all the things that he does particularly well.

I mean, the skating still needs to improve and the strength still needs to improve. He can still make the bad play every now and again that hurts your team. But he makes so many positive plays with the puck and a stick. He was getting puck through the neutral zone. He was the shots on goal leader for the Kings through their first two games. He had four assists, three of them primaries. So he's a weapon on the power play. That's the kind of event he needed to have.

I don't think he's NHL ready. I think he still needs time. But I do think that that was a really positive step to say, okay, because there were games last year. He put up a lot of points last year, but there were games last year. I was like, I just don't know. I don't know if it's going to work out, like, you know, where he's going to be a top four guy. You know, and in a prospect event, you have to take everything with a grain of salt just because it's a short thing. But I really like the way that he played.

On the topic of Brian Clark, I wasn't there. I didn't watch any of those games. But I did get a text from a scow friend who was at that camp. And he said to me that he thought that Clark was his usual excellent self offensively. But he still had concerns about his play and his defensive zone. what did you observe about that from when you were there at that camp? You know, it was, it is, it remains an issue. I mean, he actually in the last play of the game got blown up.

It was a bad hit. He was engaged with another player, but he was losing the puck battle and then got absolutely leveled. And I still can't believe they brought him back and let him play the rest of that game, which he did. And then he scored the shootout winner. He played half the overtime. But the other thing that I thought was, yes, the positioning, the wearing.

the strength on on the opponent. Those are all things that are still need to improve. You know, I've always thought that, you know, we've talked about his skating a lot. I've always thought that, you know, he needs to get better at defending the rush. No question about it. That's going to be a, you know, he can get turned around real easily. But the one thing I will say is that more times than not, when he was on the ice, L.A. had the puck a lot more. And he was, he was good at getting pucks out of the zone. he was good at getting pucks through the neutral zone and he was really good at distributing in the offensive zone. So I would agree with that statement that there is definitely work to be done.

He also made a really bad error at the offensive blue line that led to a sustained pressure. And then there was an icing. And then I'm trying to think of which team they ended up playing might have been the sharks where they ended up scoring two goals immediately after this mistake. And so those are the types of things that can hurt you. but he's an interesting prospect. He's a really interesting prospect, and he is a guy that has to focus on the elements that he's not as good at in order to be an effective NHL player.

Right. And like you, I do think he's going to be a top four defenseman in the NHL. I just was curious for your thoughts on that point. Yeah. To me, that rush bit may be the key here then, right? Because you can find ways to shelter offensive defensemen in the NHL, give him lots of offensive zones, starts, all that.

But at some point, And especially if you're making, you know, the occasional offensive blue line turnover, you still got to be able to stop it when it's coming back the other way. You could, your coach can get you out of there for DZone draws and all that stuff. But when the guy's coming at you, like, can you just make that stop? And that, I think that's always been where the skating was the most concerning is going backward against speed, right? Yes.

That's the key. Yeah, absolutely. And the one other thing, too, is like, you know, he gets up in the play a lot. He doesn't have the speed to recover. Yeah. So that's the other. That's the other thing that was really evident. When he would get down deep in the zone and then there was a transition,

he was one of the last guys back, only because he was skating hard. He wasn't dogging it. But yeah, but I did want to also just quickly shout out two defensemen from this tournament because Vegas doesn't have a lot of prospects. They don't have a lot of high in guys. But I thought Caden Corsack and late Nahak played incredible in the two games I saw alive.

They're big. They're physical. Caden Corsack is actually quite mean. I watched a game from ice level and was able to see the way that he defends. The mobility looked good. The passing was good. A-hack's offensive capabilities looked really good as well. Those were two guys where he'd say, okay, well, if, you know, given the cap issues in Vegas,

Corsack looks close. He looks close like he can make that step. Yeah, I think he'll play games this season. Yeah, yeah. And I think AHAC is a little bit further along than I expected them to be at this point as well. So those are two guys that I think if you're a Vegas Golden Knights fan, those are two guys you got to be, you know, positive about because I think they're going to help their team in the near future. How about some of our Southern California teams, Chris, Anaheim or L.A.? Yeah, well, you know, Anaheim was interesting. They had Mason McTavish. And I think there was a there was an assumption that he would just do what he did at the World Juniors and take over games and completely dominate. that didn't really happen actually.

I thought he played really well. He was super noticeable throughout, but I don't think that he did anything that stood out above and beyond what you would normally expect from a Mason-Cabish game. The skating looks good. The skill level looks good. I'd say that, you know, he is really taking, you know, he's taking steps this year.

You can see that he's ready. He looks like an NHL player. But that's one guy where I thought, you know, hey, I was kind of expecting a little more. And the other thing, too, that I'm going to be interested to see is he has this emotional, amazing experience at the world juniors where he's dominant. And it's just like, you know, how do you come off? You know, how do you even come off of that to play in a rookie tournament on a, you know,

on a community rink in San Jose? You know, like, that's, you know, they played one of their games on the community rink and one of the games on the big rank. And, you know, it was interesting to kind of watch him in that environment. But, you know, but I also thought the Ducks had some other, you know, standout guys. You know, I really like the way that Brayden Tracy played. played. He's a guy that needs to take a step. You know, he looked pretty solid at that tournament. I liked him a lot there.

You know, Pavl Mintukov is another guy, too, where he had flashes of brilliance with his offensive capabilities. And, you know, still looks like he's a bit of ways away from being a pro. But still, he showed well. And then also the Kings, the Kings, unfortunately, Alex Turcott was not available for this tournament. That's a problem, you know, for the Kings. it's been an ongoing problem with their former number five pick. However, I will say I really like Quentin Byfield. He played in just the first game that I saw.

I thought that he looked quick. He looked physically dominant. He was getting to the net better. And that's, you know, he's showing the things. He looked like an NHL player playing against prospects. There's still more for him to unlock in his game. But he does look like a guy that's ready to take a step because, you know, the Kings don't can't really afford.

for him to continue developing. They just kind of need them to be ready. And he's close. And he'll continue to develop at the NHL level, but I think he's closer than he was last season. Anyone from the two tournaments that you guys were at that youth were hoping for more from? Well, I think you probably could even say Simon Edvinson in a try. I thought he was good. But I think he's a guy who you're looking at going into training camp here. Is he going to make the NHL roster? If he was going to be that guy, I think you probably wanted to see him just straight up dominate this event. And I think there were moments where he looked like he was, I mean, he was obviously really good. He could spin off pressure and he could take it coast to

coast, but there were some plays where he looked a little casual. And I think for a player who could very well be in the opening night lineup, I think you would have wanted to see a little more there. I think you could also say, I personally left feeling like I wanted to see a little more out of Kirill Marchenko, who did have three goals. And I think you saw that, you know, the power in his game. But for an older player at this event who's played in the KHL, I wanted to see him. flat out dominate. And so, you know, these are both players who are good and who are really good prospects, but I think you wanted to maybe see him take over a little more, I guess.

Right. And you can, you know, kind of, we'll see the kind of narrative with both of them. They have Mark Chanko who play the KHL, but don't stick in the KHL last season. And with Evanston, what you're kind of telling me follows a theme we kind of saw in Summer World Junior. Yeah, yeah, exactly. I mean, yeah, I think I would just like to see Simon just get harder to play against. Just be a harder individual. has the size. He has physicality. I just want to see him. And I've seen him hit guys and crush guys.

Yeah, me too. And it's just like, but I've also seen him get knocked off the puck too easily. And I've seen those are the things that give me a little bit more concerned. But I like the player. I think he's going to be an exceptional player. But there, I think most of the things that he needs to do, it's, it's more between the ears and just a mentality that he needs. But as far as guys in San Jose, there weren't a ton of guys where I was like, you know, super underwhelmed by. I think Ivan Morozo. similar into the Kirill Marchenko, he wasn't really noticeable. He was the top line center for Vegas in two games. And I was constantly looking for him.

I was having, I had to find him in order to watch him. He doesn't really pop off the, you know, and then, so that was, that was probably one of the guys where I was like, you know, and I think, as I mentioned, McTavish, I wanted it. I expected a little more from him, but I also think that he, he doesn't have a lot to prove an event like that. So that was another thing where it was kind of kind of just off, off there. And then, Ozzy. Ozzy Weisblat was actually pretty good or Weissblat. He was pretty good. Not like NHL good, but he was like a guy that was causing disruption.

He made a couple of skill plays. The speed looked okay. You know, he was an agitator. And I think he's going to evolve into more of that middle six kind of energetic. guy, he's not a big guy, so it's hard to play that kind of role. I think the sharks would gladly take that after how his last WHL is in the end. I agree. I agree.

I agree. But I think he plays angry. You know, he plays angry and I like that about him. And he does still have skill. So, yeah, but those are some of the guys, absolutely. I think that, you know, that, that, we're fine. And Connor Geeky was probably the only other one where I was just like, you know, I'm, he's still so young. And he's not, I just don't think he should be part.

of, I don't think he is part of the plans for Arizona this year. You know, but he's, he's a guy where you're like, you see the size. He just needs to, the pace needs to come a bit more. It was a little more evident here. Did you see Genter at all? I did. He did play one game. And it was his first game back. He was, he was coming off of an illness.

And then obviously, you know, was injured in the playoffs last year. I thought that he looked like he, like he usually does. He wasn't necessarily driving play, but he was making plays. and he was getting a couple of chances. I thought his decision making was really on point. He was good with the pace. And when he had the puck on his stick, he was usually making positive plays with it.

You know who's one other guy from Trevor City that I really wanted to see a lot more of who actually probably would be my biggest disappointment was Nick Robertson in Toronto. This is a guy who's been at this tournament before. He's actually, you know, like you see in flashes, like the motor, the speed, whatever. But he had one goal at this event.

And I did not notice him nearly as much. as I felt like I should have for a guy who's, you know, been at this tournament so much before. Yeah, that's a tough one. I'm a huge, I've always been a huge Nick Robertson supporter and, and I've liked his game. But I agree. I think that we're starting to get to that point now where it's like, hey, it's go time. You know, it's got, you got to, it's time to put it together and to be a guy. And, you know, his skating is never going to be amazing.

His, you know, he needs to get into the spaces to get the shots. he's going to need to play with somebody that can get him the puck. He's not going to really drive play. And so, yeah, so, I mean, it's tough. And I'd be interested to see kind of what happens with him down the line. You know, how much longer can Toronto wait? And he's still, you know, he's still not that old. But it's one of those things where, you know, we need to see that next step because it hasn't happened yet.

Just really quick on the Pinticton tournament. We're not going to probably have time to talk about it today. But Thomas Drans was there. For us, you can read about it on The Athletic. We got an article with tournament standouts from around the league. Just the guys he highlighted were Danila Klimovich, Cole Perfetti, Connor Zeri, Dylan Holloway. So go check that out for his updates, and we'll be right back with our mailbag. All right, mailbag time.

Starting off with one from Mike L, who says, Did the Red Wings amass enough potential star power in their tank years to build a legitimate cup contender before attempting to turn the corner this offseason? Corey, let's start with you. It's, you know, my initial thought is probably have enough, but it's probably on the periphery, right? I mean, Max, you cover this team daily, so you would probably know better than me, but it seems like they have enough, particularly given the very positive developments of Moritz-Royt Zayman, coupled with the so-so development of Michael Rasmussen and Philip Sedina. but the big question is who's the center of the future. Is it going to be Marco Casper?

And I think it very well could be. Obviously, having a very promising start from his Champions League play in early and his first weekend of his S-HL play. But a long way to go before we figured out whether he is going to be the answer behind Dylan Larkin long term. And so that, for me, is the one question there with the rebuild. As they have, I think, added a very good amount of talent that's off. season and look like I think they are going to be a team on the rise is how does their situation

down the middle bode long term and could they have used one more guy like that? You know, I was having this exact conversation with a scout at the Traverse City tournament. And we were kind of talking about, you know, there are teams who go three, four, five years and don't find a Lucas Raymond, a Moritz cider, Simon Edvinson, all three of them, I should say, you know, in their bottom out. And so, you know, you can question like, you know, is I, I, and I, do question is Marco Casper going to be like that that real legit top line top six guy. I am leaning yes, but we'll see. I think that's fair to question.

But I do think what you really got to make sure you get in your bottom out is a few true top of the lineup guys. And I think they got that in insider Raymond and Edvenson. And so I think to me the answer is yes. They're still going to pick probably in the teens between 10 and 20 for the next few years. And I think you just keep taking swings and trying to find, you know, now forwards. I think D, you're pretty close to set. I think that's the, I think they pretty much did. Right.

And they did this again, as we've said many times, without ever getting the true high, high lottery pick, which is an unusual thing to do in a rebroad. Usually every once in a while, someone would lock into a top three or a second or even a first overall pick when they do bottom out. So it'll be curious to see if the lack of that turns into a successful NHL team down the line. All right. Nathan A says the Bruins are going to have a massive shift coming up with their aging core on the edge of retirement. With their prospect pool looking not hot, what changes can or should they make? Or does it all just come down to the draft? Chris, let's go to you here. Yeah, it's tough.

I mean, you always feel like you can compete when you have your Brad Marchans and Patrice Bergeron's. and that's, so you're kind of in a weird status right now where you're trying to figure out what you're going to be. And unfortunately, for the Bruins, it is going to come down to patience, drafting, you know, when, when it's time to break things up, you know, but you have your, you have some of your core pieces. You have Charlie McAvoy. You know, we'll see if Jeremy Swayman is going to be the true goalie of the future there. So you've got still that starter pack for the next wave. it just there's just not that next that that second tier for them is really below average for for where where it needs to be relative to the rest of their division and that's going to be

the thing that I think kind of is harder to develop and build and if you trade away picks and if you trade away prospects it only makes it harder and it takes longer on the back end and I think you know we'll start looking at a team like Chicago that's kind of they had they had to just jettison so much of their championship core, you know, they're still in a long-term situation here. I think whenever this does end for the Bruins, it's going to be a while. But it doesn't have to be forever. It doesn't have to be super long. So we'll just have to wait and see when they're ready to kind of move on.

But I think they're still kind of in that we can compete mode. And I think the biggest variable with them. Because I think obviously that I still think they're a contender. They have an excellent hockey team. And I think Jeremy Swavenan can continue to get better is what happens with David Pasternak. If they keep him, then you're probably still stay in this vague territory, like where Pittsburgh and Washington is, where you just keep going till the good times end. But if they can't keep Pastornak, then those are some really hard questions to ask. Adam P says the Devils seem to have a number of players who have come up through the AHL team and are now pushing for roster spots, including Fabian Zetterland, Tice Thompson, Nolan Foot, Graham Clark, Riley Walsh, Kevin Ball, and Nikita Okotuk.

which of these prospects do you think are ready for the big club? And what's the best path for development for those who don't make the team? Corey, any of the guys on those list would you like with a real shot to make the doubles this year? Well, Zetterland, I think is in waiver's territory right now. I'm not sure he's a guy who helps your team win every night in the National Hockey League because he's not the best skater. But he's a guy who they're going to make a decision on during this camp process. And he has a good camp.

He could force their hand because he is skilled. he's intelligent, you can score a goal. So it wouldn't surprise me if he stuck, but that's going to be a decision they're going to have to make. I think Kevin Ball is probably close. He did play some games last year, and it wouldn't surprise me if he does get into the lineup in a significant way at some point this season.

And as well, I think Foote probably still needs a little bit more American League time, but he was still a really young player in the American League last year as a late birth date, playing on a loaded team. I could see him having a very good second American League season, and whether in the second half of the year or the following year, becoming a full-time guy. Yeah, I would agree with Corey on that. And then, you know, Riley Walsh is the real wild card of the group,

you know, in terms of what can he be? He's kind of like the stop gap. You're going to have your Luke Hughes and your Simon Nemich soon. So what ultimately is going to be his value to the team in the next couple of years? It's not going to be that high, but it could be kind of that, You know, that guy that you get a look at as soon as this year. But, you know, I think he's probably a guy that's destined for some significant NHL time as well.

Yeah, I don't think he's an NHL player, not with his, not with his feet. I just don't think he'll be able to defend well enough, even though he has really good offense. And you look at the right side there. You're going to have an image. You're going to have Dougie Hamilton, John Marino. There's just nowhere for him going to play a long term. Good one from Thomas A here. Do the Kings continue their growth this season?

Or was last year a fluke and how key is Cal Peterson to that question? Obviously, in gold. that's pretty key. But what do you think for the Kings? I mean, they go out, they get Kevin Fiala. They take another step, or is it kind of more a little regression or a little more of the same? I feel like it's going to be kind of more of the same. I think they can contend for the, continue to contend for the playoffs. I think they have a good shot at making the playoffs out of the Pacific. You know, I think there's enough there's enough there for them to continue. You have to expect a step from guys like Sean Dersy from Quintin Byfield, you know, for,

And you might get some guys that kind of filter into the lineup a little bit more. I think I really like the depth that the Kings have. I think they have some, you know, guys like Alex Iafalo and Blake Lazzat are so underappreciated for what they do and what they mean to that roster. And then you still have your core players. You know, the health of Drew Dowdy is going to be a big factor in this question as well. But I think the Cal Peterson question is a super important one because last year we were expecting to see him be the guy.

It didn't work out that way. You know, Jonathan Quick is not going to give up his net that easily. and Cal Peterson has to force the Kings into that decision. And so he didn't do that yet. I still am a big believer in Cal Peterson. I think he's a good goalie. He's the pride of Waterloo, Iowa. So I'm always going to be a fan of his and expect him to do well.

But my wife's from Waterloo, that's why I say that. But, you know, I think that he is a guy that, you know, he's a huge key to them taking the next step. Because I don't think that the next tier beneath him in terms of goalies, there is a the next guy for me with the Kings. The Kings, if I'm not mistaken, had like an absurd record in one goal games last season. And that would be something that if you're projecting for the upcoming season would give you pause. But I think that could be counterbalance by the fact that they have so many really good young

players coming up. You expect Byfield to take a step. You expect Arthur Calli if you can take a step. You hope Tobias Björnford kind of bounces back a little bit from how the season ended last year. Jordan Spence was really good last year. Sean Dersey obviously has been really promising with his development. And there's others that were probably not mentioning to the many that they have in the Ontario rain. So you're hoping there will be some progression for those guys to maybe kind of balance,

maybe that progression from the one goal game scores. And I would kind of agree with Chris, I think they're probably a bubble playoff team. Chris Wininger says of the Calder finalists from last team, which do you think has the biggest sophomore slump? So this is finalist. I think he's just talking here about cider, Zegris, and Michael Bunting. Any of those guys jump out to you, Corey? I feel like the obvious one there, you know, the low-hanging fruit is Bunting. And there's no disrespect to Michael. I think he's a very intelligent, skilled hockey player.

He works his bag off. He's, you know, he's, he came from being a guy who looked like he was going to be on track to be a career American leaguer and has turned himself into a legitimate NHL player just because of his skating. and obviously his usage there where he was on the line with Matthews and Marner. That seems like the one where that's probably a little bit devoid of reality, but he might play with those guys again this season all year. You know, we'll see how his year goes. So it wouldn't surprise me for him still put up good numbers,

but that one seems the kind of the obvious one to me. Yeah, I mean, I'd have to agree. I just think that Zegris and Sider took a step last year, and have more steps to take. I don't think they're done getting better. And I not say that bunting is plateaued, but I just think that of those three, you know,

you look at the youth that's on the side of the other two players and also the fact that they're going to be so relied upon in these key roles and are, you know, essentially the new faces of their franchises. Yeah, I mean, as someone who is the exact age of Michael bunting,

I think I can say, I'm not getting too much better at hockey anymore than where I am. So I don't think it's crazy to think that he's already, ready in his prime here. I don't think we're doing him dirty at all if we say that. The one thing I'm curious about, you know, Anaheim, I think everyone does know, obviously they get John Klingberg. That's going to help. But they do lose some real talent and some veteran talent there. And environmentally, maybe that makes things a little trickier on Zegris. But I think he keeps getting better. It's just a question of how much does that team context maybe affect what the public perception

of his season might be. Right. I mean, Raquel, Linholm go out. But Klingberg comes in, Mason McTavish will probably be a full-time guy next year. So, yeah, I think it'll all be a wash. Yeah, all right. Next one is from Derek Lee, who says, who's your top caller candidate heading into this season? And he says, why is it Jake Sanderson? I guess, first of all, Chris, is it Jake Sanderson?

And if not, who is it? Oh, man, I would love for it to be Jake Sanderson. I think he's got a shot for sure. It's just he's going to play really well. He's absolutely in the mix. I just think that it's, you know, although more excited, showed that it's not necessarily hard. I don't think that Jake's going to have the points that you need as a rookie defenseman

to kind of get those votes. I do think he's going to play a huge role for Ottawa. But beyond him, I think, you know, to me, the guy that, you know, I don't think it's going to be a first year player. You know, it's not a guy that's draft plus one typically. You know, so I'm looking, I think it's Mason McTavish. I think that he's got the guy, in terms of his physical preparedness, the way that he played at the World Juniors, even though he didn't have a great

production at the rookie faceoff that I was at, he's a guy that just strikes me as ready to make a significant impact. I think, as you mentioned, environmentally, it might not actually be that great for him. But if he kind of rises above that, I think that speaks to voters. So, I mean, it's him. And then I've really debated a lot. I have, you know, I think about power. I think about Baneers as well.

And if McTavish ends up winning the Calder, it's not a knock on either Benirs or power who went ahead of him in the draft. It's just that I think that where he's at and what he can do right now, he's got a chance to put up some big numbers this year. As usual, Chris chooses the Canadian and discriminates against the American players. But my choice would be Benares as the Calder in favor. I think he's going to have a lot of opportunity in Seattle to play a big role. I think he looked already really good in the NHL late last season and playing at the Olympics versus men. Yeah, I think McTavish would be in the mix there. Owen Power would be in the mix for me there, but my lean would be towards Meniers as the favorite.

And there's something you mentioned the power play time there, Chris, because, yeah, in the Sanderson's case, you know, it's going to be tough to get the offense. Sider did that, but he was the power play one guy. That wasn't a given, I don't think, coming into the year, mind you. He was going to be that at Mexico. I could attest of that. But he ended up being that, getting that kind of opportunity. I don't see Jake Anderson taking Thomas Shabbath power full time. Exactly.

So he might kind of be in that. That was kind of what Charlie McAvoy's situation was in his rookie year, right? Like he was really good, but he didn't get the power playtime. So he wasn't able to call the votes. And we would think that similarly about Owen Power with Rasmus Dahlene, right? So that's an obstacle for both them. I'm going to echo Corey and say Baneers. I just think, you know, especially just what he showed in that call up at the end of last

season. I don't know if we're going to expect him to put up 0.9 points per game this year, but he's still going to be, I think, a really good player. And he's my favorite going in. Next question is from Gary Graves. This will call back to Chris from the prospect tournament segment. What are your thoughts on Eklins sticking with the sharks this year? You want to start us off? Yeah, I mean, he's, he is committed to staying in North America no matter what. So he'll go to the HL if they send them there. I don't think they're going to have to have to do that. I think that he He showed at the beginning of the NHL season last year that he wasn't far away, but he wasn't quite ready. I had no problem with them sending back to Sweden.

What did happen is that the season didn't go really well for Drew Gardens, and it was tough for him. That, you know, he had one goal. It just wasn't great. But I think that with his speed, with his skill, his hockey sense, all those things. Like, he is an incredibly intelligent player with high-end vision. I think he's going to thrive playing alongside better. players. And he will have, I think they're going to put him in a position to succeed with San Jose this year. And that will be playing with guys that he can benefit from and who he can help

make better as well. And I'm talking about some of their veteran guys, you know, guys that have, that can produce. So I think he's ready, but he is committed to no matter what, he's going to stay here. He's not going back to Sweden. Chuck says, do you really forecast the Blackhawks rebuild being a 10-year project? Corey, let's start with you there. Yeah, because I think that question is directed towards me. I don't know when. I said that, but I believe I've said that before. And I might have, I don't think, I don't think I was exaggerating, but I don't remember the exact context I said that in. And that, you know, I looked at the black house situation and I think most people think, oh, rebells take five years.

But you look at this situation. I look at the same thing in Arizona, although I think different markets, so different ways you can acquire talent. But I think Chicago is in for a lot of pain. I, you know, I think a great analogy, Max, is the team you cover. Yeah. You know, how long has this Red Wings rebuild been going on? How long are they going to go in between playoff appearances? It's been seven years, I think, so far.

Yep. And realistically, they're not a playoff team this season. I'm sure I think the hope is they take meaningful steps towards the playoffs, but I think realistically they're not. So let's say conservatively, it'll be one to three years, three more seasons, I would say, before they're a playoff team again. It could be a little sooner, but you're right. Like, that's certainly on the table.

Right. So you're looking at maybe probably eight to ten year process there for them to become a playoff team again. Now, different variables can change the equation. If you don't, if, let's say, Michael Rasmussen would have been Elias Pedersen. That could have changed the equation. That was never an option, but that's just making the analogy there. Things, you know, you miss on draft picks, you get a more insider that instead of, I don't know,

Philip Brobert, that that change. changes things. It's not a perfect size, but it takes a long time to rebuild a team, not just into a playoff team, but into a contender. It's a lot of things need to go right. And I think you even look back to the last Chicago reboot, you look at, yes, Jonathan Taze and Patrick Kane and Duncan Keith and Brent Seabrook, those were amazing draft picks. But there was Jack Skilly in there. There was Cam Barker in there. So you, these things can take a very long time

to really build a true contender again. I should clarify, this coming year would be seven for Detroit. But to your point, like, you know, Detroit's that process starts, only those first two years is when they still have even Zetterberg. And so Chicago is still having Canaan Taves.

Like, maybe you're counting the last couple years as the start of this process for Chicago, still having Kane and Taves, but they haven't even fully torn it down yet. And I think that's maybe the part that drags this out the longest. I think what helps is if you do get a big haul, if you trade Patrick Kane and you get a great hall, that's what helps the most. But, you know, they're still in the really early days of what's going to be, I think, a long process. Yeah, like I would have thought the beginning, where they made the Kirby Doc pick that would have been the start of it. But obviously, a lot of interesting things

have happened since then. Yeah. All right. Moving on here, we got a good one from Logan Horn, who says, since there's been a defenseman drafting the top five of every NHL draft since 2003, will this year break that trend with the likes of Bedard, Mitchcoff, Fintilly, Yeager, Benson, Carlson, et cetera, or will someone like Alan Goyeyev or another D crack the top five? Chris.

Well, it's certainly possible that this year breaks. I mean, there's his a really good forward core. I think the real variable is what is going to happen with Mitchcov. Where does he end up going? Is it still in the top five? I think it very well could and should be. But, you know, we still got a lot of time to figure that out. That's kind of the variable here.

You know, I think at this point, and Corey may disagree, but I think at this point Cameron Allen's the guy that I've kind of looked at as having the highest potential to be the number one pick among defensemen in this draft has a lot of the tools that we're looking more. It doesn't necessarily have the size, but he's got a lot of the tools that we like in the modern defenseman, the way that he moves Pucks, right shot. It's got all kinds of different things that he does really well. And, you know, I think that he's got a chance. He's got a chance for sure. But it is tough to crack in here, to crack this forward group, which there is so much skill.

But I'll turn it over to Corey because we'll see. He looks like he might disagree, but maybe kind of agree. We'll see where this goes. I don't actually disagree that much. I think Alan is my number one ranked defenseman, and for the reasons you just said, I think he's very intelligent. He competes well.

He's a good skater. I think there's really good value. There are two both ends of the ice. What's interesting with this D-A group is, well, at least early on, seems like the top two defensemen. And Alan and Guliyev are both 5-11 defensemen. Maybe Alan's a little bit closer to 6 foot.

I think he measured around 511 and a half, something like that. Regardless, not. the biggest defensemen, and there hasn't been a whole lot of 5-11 defensemen that have gone in the top five in recent years. Kail Makar was one, but I would argue that neither Allen nor Gugliaev have the same dynamic qualities as Kaila Kahl, even at that same age. We'll see how their years go. You know, if Alan has a monster year of Gulliayev, he had a really nice assistant to KHL this past week. We'll see how he does versus men this season.

that could be a very interesting variable there. Or is there another defenseman that we're not talking about like a Kevin Kortinski who really just keeps trending up as the year goes on and pushes his way, who has a more prototypical skill set that looks that way. Even Jake Sanderson wasn't really in this conversation in the top five at the start of the year. It kind of built it on. But when I look through the amateur ranks and the best players in the age groups, there isn't an obvious guy.

There's some guys that kind of highlight. Maybe it's the O'Linstine in Sweden, maybe it's Maxim Starback, the O'Falbacian defenseman is in New and Zuffaloz. There's maybe some of the program without really appreciating well enough yet. But there's nobody that's really, really obvious yet that we would have that more stereotypical build for a top five defense pick. And, yeah, like kind of Chris said, there's such a good forward group. I don't even think that questionnaire even mentioned Charlie Stramel or Dallabor, or Dallabor, Vorsky.

So it'll be interesting to see how it all plays out this season. All right. And then we'll close it out with this one from Hockey South. Should there be a system similar to exceptional status in the CHL that lets a few under 20 players play in the HL each year? The NHL is larger these days and there's enough talent to go around. I think it's kind of interesting that the guy asking this is named Hockey South. I don't know if he's a star's fan.

But that's a team that this feels pretty relevant for right now. I'm coming from Traverse City and just watching Wyatt Johnston, who obviously he looks like a great prospect, had a tremendous season last year. But he didn't kick the door down either. That's someone who looked like a no doubt this guy has to be in the NHL guy. And yet the idea of sending him back to the O, I can't imagine is very desirable for Dallas right now. Same thing with Stan Kovin, who was also the debut in a job later earlier. It's interesting.

I feel like, whatever, this question comes up all the time. And it will in some variation in any ways. And I feel like whenever you ask fans this question, the answer is, is obviously, yes, why has this, this should have been done 10 years ago. Yeah. That needs to be put in. But when I ask people around hockey, not even in the CHL, people who work in the NHL, whether it's scouts, whether executives, people who, you know, people who work in the management

levels, they are pretty much opposed to the idea. It's, and it's more along the lines of, we really like where the CHL is at. Let's not screw with it. and you can have reasonable debates about how much it would screw with it or not. I could see a really good argument that I don't think your typical junior hockey fan is showing up to a game because there's a marquee name there. I would argue it's more to support the local team, but I know there is significant opposition in the NHL to that idea.

But in terms of his question, should there be, I think from a pure player development standpoint, the answer is yes. We saw this last season that when given the opportunity to put players in the American League, such as, say, what Detroit did with Donovan Sabrango, they chose to do that. Yeah. Yeah. And I would agree, too. I think could and should, you know, are the things here.

I think should. The one thing I will say is that there is. very little harm in a player playing that extra year of junior. I don't think they're going to get stale. I don't think they're getting stagnant. Yes, I would prefer to see a player be challenged. I would prefer to see a player be forced to play up a level. You know, you see guys in the HL's a very difficult league for young players to play in. So there are only a select group of players that you would do that for. Guys like Donovan Sabrango, he's not a top end prospect, but he's a he's a good prospect that was prepared to play at that level and was able to play at that level and played

well at that level. So you couldn't do it for everybody. But I do think that, you know, if we want to be a player development first, you know, if that's the priority, you know, getting those guys in the HAL sooner, the guys like Stancoven, like Johnston, perhaps, you know, and you'd have to create the rules in such a very specific way that would live. limit the amount of players that you would do that for because you wouldn't want to do it for everybody. You really wouldn't. And it's not a good position to put the team in. It's not a good position to put the player in either. So, you know, but I will say those players that do go back to junior very rarely are going to get harmed by that experience. I haven't talked to the new regime about it. I remember talking to the former AHA president, Dave Andrews, about this issue.

And he would always say, you know, we don't even think about that. We don't, it's not like something that's near the top of our priority list. So I just don't see that coming down to pipeline any time to see it. All right, that is going to do it for us. Thanks for listening to this episode of the Athletic Hockey Show Prospect Series. And subscribe to the Athletic Audio Plus on Apple Podcast to get all the bonus content from our entire network. You're going to start with a 30-day free trial and then it's just 99 cents a month after that. You can also catch more of Chris over at Flow hockey and his,

podcast Talking Hockey Sense. And right now you can subscribe to The Athletic for $1 a month for six months when you visit Theathletic.com slash hockey show. We'll talk to you soon.