The Athletic Hockey Show - No, NHL player safety doesn't hate the Maple Leafs

Episode Date: February 14, 2024

It's the debut episode of the Sean's! Gentille and McIndoe are hosting the Wednesday The Athletic Hockey Show. Gentille and Down Goes Brown dissect the five game suspension for Morgan Rielly, Ridly Greig's comments on the slap shot heard around the world and DGB's unwritten rules of hockey. Plus the guys praise Connor McDavid who recorded 6 assists in the Oilers win over Detroit on Tuesday which now sees the NHL's star player tied for third in NHL scoring, Alex Ovechkin's 6 game goal scoring streak, Phil Kessel working out with the Canucks AHL team and the guys provide their thoughts on the NHL's Metro division, which teams make the top four and which ones miss out on the playoffs. Get a 1-year subscription to The Athletic for $2 a month when you visit http://theathletic.com/hockeyshow Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the athletic hockey show. Well, well, well, welcome to the new Wednesday edition of the Athletic Hockey Show. I'm Sean Jantilly. I am joined by my co-host permanently, now forever, 10 years, 20 years. How much longer can we do this? Three episodes. Three episodes? Hi, everybody.

Do we make it to the trade deadline? Dicey Very dicey I feel like we need a clever name for this Now how does that work Do we do that Do we come up with that

Or is this something Do people send us stuff Does it happen organically I saw someone call it Oops All Shands somewhere Yeah That's not bad That's okay

It's like the oops all berries Captain Crime cereal Yeah we could We could do something like that We'd have to have like only Sean guests, though. You know what needs to happen first is, and I got the paperwork running on this. We need Frankie Carrado to change his name to Sean. Yep.

Yeah, I don't think he knows that yet that that's happening, but it is, it is going to happen. And then we've got, I mean, Sean Avery, I'm sure we'll have lots to say, why don't we have Sean Avery on today to talk about. I thought about. I just wanted to talk to about Oppenheimer, seriously. And when he was in, I was like, God, I know. I don't think I'll pass on that. We should have it.

We should have had Avery to talk on or to speak on Morgan Riley. As it stands, it's just us, though. So you and I have to go over this. And congratulations, everybody. That's what our first show is going to be. Just 90 minutes of Morgan Riley talk. We're going to break this down from every conceivable angle, the incident, the suspension, the outrage. The outrage.

The device is clicking off. right now. We have a big clock and we can't turn off the record until we hit 90 minutes on Morgan Riley alone. No, that's not. Just a Morgan Riley. That's not what's happening.

But we have to mention it because this is day three or day four. It's still... No, day four? We're on to day five of the national conversation about Morgan Riley and Ridley-Gree.

Where are we in the lifespan? there because we have the suspension. We know that it's five games. Like, what is the next, what's the next area? We've hit most of the major milestones. Ridley, Greg spoke to the media about it. So we have that. What we don't have yet as we're recording this is apparently Bradford

Living is going to address the media today. So that's going to add a little bit extra, depending on how hard ego is on it. That may or may not necessitate a Brandon Shanahan. addressed to the media, which is what we're all waiting for. Like this is, you ever watch? That's what it's, that's what it's, that's what it's building to. That's like the season, that's like this season. This is like, what was, what was that show?

There was a show on ABC. It was called, it was called the slap for the hit or whatever, whatever it was. That's where he hit the kid, yes. When, when the dude who played Spock in the Star Trek movies, hit a kid. Speaking of assaulting young people, we didn't do anything to deserve it. That's what, that's what this is. We're building up to the season finale of the slap NHL edition. I got to say, I'm proud of myself.

I made it four minutes into this brand new podcast before I dropped a pro wrestling reference. But this is like, Her Living's in the ring with the mic, but everyone's looking at the entrance waiting for the music to hit and Shanahan to come out and just lay down the loss. So we got that. And that should probably be the end of it for a while. But then it's going to continue as the Leafs, let's face it, go 5 and 0 without. Morgan Riley. And then when he comes back and they immediately lose, that'll give us another round.

Luckily, or unluckily, I guess, depending on your point of view, we do not have another Senator's Leafs game this year. Because that would be... I did not know that. Can you imagine if they would, if April 2nd, they were on the schedule or something? Yeah. Wouldn't you love to watch Ryan Reeves, just Chase Ridley-Gregor, around her like just 45 minutes of really great literally just yeah yeah i was i was going to like

chasing him around and not not yeah absolutely not it it would be uh it'd be fantastic are you tell me where you're at on this because it's it you've people generally know if people aren't familiar with my work i'm a leif's fan is that what you is that true i i i like to think I'm somewhat objective, impartial. I've been told I'm one of the reasonable ones, but also, I think I would like to hear your completely impartial view. On Riley Gregg or on your reaction. Of the guy with like the conspiracy board.

So, yeah, walk me through the whole thing. How many hits have I done on Canadian radio about this in the last like five days? It's been like, it's been a, it's been a few. And I've been trying to like amend an update and like fine tune the stuff, the stuff that I say. Because like I don't know, nobody wants to spend their day. Classic, classic pro go on lots of radio shows and give a different answer every single time.

See, you tailor it to the people who are listening and you somehow manage to make everybody mad at. Where are we on this one? Oh, this is in Ottawa. Well, um, yeah, right. Vancouver. What's, what's, where, where are they on this? Yeah. I think where we landed is, I think it's, I think it's fine with me.

Like, I don't, I think both, I think both guys were, both guys were wrong. Both guys were, but also like, really, who cares? Like, I don't, I don't care that, I don't care that, I don't care that, that really Greg did that. Like, buy the ticket, take the ride. Like, he did something, he did something stupid. He needs, he needs to deal with it in, in one way or another. Now, unfortunately, like, does that mean that he should get cross-checked? you know, I have a ride-up cross-check going to his neck.

Like, no, ideally that would not be the outcome. But if, but if he, you know, pulled the slapper and in Riley just crushed him into the boards, you know, whatever, took like a normal body check into the boards. Like, I would say this is like, this is great. Let's all, let's all, let's all move on. That's not what happened. So I think we need to like, we need to recalibrate a little bit. so he wasn't hurt.

He's fine. That's what I'm like that's, yeah. I wrote in my piece on Monday about it that I think one, one of the many overreactions to all this is the overreaction to what really Greg did to start the whole thing. Completely. I think it was that bad. And I'm a pretty, I think I'm more of a traditional old school hockey type than maybe a lot

of the voices that are out there these days. Like I don't. mind some of this code stuff. I don't mind. But, you know, he took a slap shot. All right. It was, it was a little dab of mustard on the hot dog. That's all. Like, you know, the, and the idea that if you're either a Leafs fan or you're a fan of, you know, your old school Don Cherry type, that you have to then turn it into this, you know, the awful insulting thing that he did. No, it was, it was a minor. thing.

It was a little bit of an exclamation point on a win that was a big win for a team that hasn't had a ton of them recently. Yeah. So what? You know, and the appropriate response is somebody skates over and goes, don't do that again. Don't do it.

Which is what Riley was going for. And then he. Yeah. And escalated and whatever. Yeah. And here we are. I mean, he, if he cross checks him in the shoulder. it's done and it's, you know.

That's what I'm saying. I wish that's what would happen because then we could have all just, I mean, look, which is not to excuse it because you're responsible for your stick. And yeah, we always, like, we always have to add these like rejoiners. We're not, we're not excusing it. Nobody wants like, like, well, like, fine. Gotcha. And there's, we're like, we have a discourse addiction problem, like in North America,

when it comes to anything, let alone, let alone the sport. So, again, the fact that we're on day five, and we're openly making it worse here. Absolutely. Whatever. It's one of the goals of this new show. Making things. We get together every Wednesday morning. We go, what's bad that we can make things worse?

Yeah. Look, what I wanted to ask, though, like the part that interests me, and I do know you to be, you know, whatever, you said, you said one of the good ones? That's what people said. I think I said one of the reasonable ones. One of the reasonable ones. but that's what I meant. You are generally. But I need to ask,

what is up with the Department of Player's Safety having an axe to grind against Maple Leaf's players? Because that is like, that is a nuclear, that is a nuclear take from you. And it is, it is an inflammatory one that I'm like not accustomed to seeing. I'm coming,

coming from your parts. I, my, my take is simply that, as I'm sure most people have by now, I've seen the numbers, The Toronto Maple Leafs are the most suspended team in George Peros.

Somebody has to be, sure. They are also close to the team with the lease suspensions against them, including quite a few, and I'm sure, don't get me wrong, every team has these, but quite a few that you could point to and be like, how come that was a suspension,

including just a week ago. Mason Marshman throws a high hit on Jake McCabe, bloodies them. The Department of Player Safety steps in and takes action, but they just find them. So, you know, the Department of Player Safety said,

yeah, that was messed up, can't do that, but no suspension. And I think that that doesn't, it's very hard to square that with the Leafs' reputation as a soft team, which is something that they've absolutely

been called for the last five years, and it's been very funny to me this week to watch all these people go, Nobody ever said this team was soft. Said they were soft. And it's like, dude, everybody, including Lee fans, by the way. Probably Lee fans have done it more than anyone else. I just, I find that curious.

They are one of the least penalized teams in terms of on the ice. And people have said, well, does that actually, should that correlate to suspensions? Well, people have done the work and looked at the numbers. And it does for almost every team. Most penalized teams are the most suspended. teams and vice versa except the leaves now before we go too far down this road just to be really clear i do not believe george peros hates the maple leaves i don't think he's mad because he lost to fight the colton ore 15 years ago i don't think it's a brendan shanahan thing you used to do

are you sure are you sure think it's a brandon shanahan i'm sure it's not a george peros is mad at the leaves yeah pretty sure it's not a brandon shanahan thing maybe i don't maybe Shanahan took all the office supplies on his last day. You know, they got there and there's like no staplers. Who knows? But I do think it's at least plausible that the Maple Leafs being this giant market, it gets all this attention that everyone's always screaming and yelling about, that at some point,

Paris and the Department of Player Safety got it in their heads that they've got to make sure that they're not viewed as having a bias for the home team or, you know, for the big market team and that they've maybe overcorrected in the other direction. That's my only view. There could be other explanations, including as you say that, hey, somebody's got to be be the most suspended team, including that maybe the Leafs are just this specifically dirty type of team where they're super soft, but then they crack you over the head with their stick when you're not looking and, you know, but yet nobody does it to that.

I guess. I just think of those plausible explanations. One of them is that some human nature kicks in, and especially when you consider how much media in Toronto there is and how that media seems to always be saying that every suspension is too light, that George Perez or wherever would be like, all right, geez, you know what, this is going to be all over hockey, I can. All right, this will be the one that we actually give a significance instead of the one game

that we give if it was the blue jackets or whatever. that's it. If that's a conspiracy, then I guess, all right, but that's, that's all that I'm saying. That's framed so much more reasonably than I was expecting. This is really disappointing. You needed to, you needed to say it like on this, by the way. Again, fine-tuning and tailoring to the audience. That's what it's all about.

That's right. No, I think, I think you got a hit on the counterpoint there, which is not that the Leafs are like a very specifically dirty kind of team. But you have spets of freaking out and needing someone in the head. You have Matthews, Matthews cross-checking someone in the neck. You have Riley hitting, you know, crushing someone after a goal, which is not something we see frequently. I mean, I don't know. Like, how many times have we seen it since Dale Hunter, right?

Like, like, and I'm not saying that that makes it better or worse or whatever, but there's like, there are standout. I mean, I think you see guys go over and start a scrum after a goal fairly often. You don't see. Yes. This. You don't see. you don't see it happen after. That's also a part of it too.

I think the circumstances where it's an empty netter. He puts a little mustard on the hot dog and then, you know. And it's it's the prime time hockey night in Canada game coast to coast. You know, it's, it's sure. It's going to be a thing. If you're just counting suspension, like games lost to suspension, like that's where you lose me. because it's like, well, like, again, Spets, Matthews. Like, these are not, these are not dirty players.

They're just due to freaked out, basically. And it was, and it's a one-off, a one-off kind of thing. And that's where, that's where plenty of the, of the work gets done on getting that total up the, up to be clear. When we say most suspended, it's the most total suspensions. Oh. What they lead to league in. The most games that, I think they're second to the capitals because the Tom Wilson had like a 20 gamer in there. And that's, that's what pads out.

So, but it's, yeah, it's not like we're looking at, there's four suspensions, but they were all five games and, you know, that sort of thing. And the other piece of it. And, and again, I acknowledge upfront, you could do this for any team. Okay. I absolutely understand that. But we're talking about the Leafs right now. So we'll do it for the Leafs. Yeah.

You know, everybody is looking at Morgan Riley going, guys, you can't go, the game is over. You can't skate up to someone you're mad at and cross check them in the side of the head. That's going to be five games. what are we even doing here? And yet, every leave fan has seen the clip by now of Alex Chesaun going up to Jimmy Vizi a couple years ago after a game was over and cross-checking him in the head. And he got one game. And that was the first suspension that they had ever, that that department of player safety had ever given for something done to the Maple Leafs

and there had been some candidates, one game for doing not exactly the same thing. you know, it's, it wasn't quite apples to oranges. Apples to a different type of apple. But how do you, how do you justify that? How do you justify, you know, yeah, Austin Matthews. Fuji apples to Gala apples. Exactly. That was it.

That's exactly what it was. How do you justify Austin Matthews, you know, gets the crotch. You show that clip and you go, what are you saying? This shouldn't be a suspension. What do you see? But then you look at the clip of Wayne Simmons. Sometimes it's not a suspension. And you go, you know, that.

And that wasn't a suspension. Now, again, you could do this with any team. You could do this with a. The Department of Player Safety is really inconsistent. I think I, in, news flash. Inconsistent is, is, that's a charitable. I mean, they're incompetent on some, on some level. So that, so that's always where I, right.

And this is part of what is, is so funny about this, because I will tell you, yes, Lee fans are insane about this. They're insane about everything. That's what fan bases do. Okay. No leaf fan should be viewed as some objective source on this, including me. All right. Ignore everything I'm saying.

But also, there's a lot of people out there that don't like the Leafs and are not objective in the other direction. And it's been very funny. I felt like until five days ago, the one thing that you could get all hockey fans to agree on is that we think the Department of Player Safety does a terrible job. Like that was the one unifying thing that all fan bases and everybody in the old school and the new school and everybody could get together and be like, we don't like the Department of Player Safety. They do a bad job. And the number of people who have spent the last five days going, how dare you be smirch George Peros by suggesting that there could be any bias in this, this wonderful group of it. It's, dude. It's, it's, it's.

I don't know. There's, there's something weird going on. And maybe this something weird is, like you say, just coincidence. It could be. That happens a lot. Let me throw one last thing at you. Okay. All right.

Now, I said I wasn't doing the conspiracy thing. Here's my actual. I know. This is the run up to the conspiracy theory. Here's the actual. Here's the actual conspiracy. All right. Saturday night, you're George Peros.

You're watching the game or your phone buzzes. Uh-oh. You see what Morgan Riley just did. You look at that. And you go, man, that's really bad. He's not good. Crushy, got it, got the kid in the head. It was after the play.

We can't have that. And you go, man, I'm thinking, I'm thinking this is a three to five gamer. This is good. And then you think, man, I'm going to have to deal with all these Leaf fans, all this Toronto media. They're all going to be so mad.

I've given Morgan Riley, the Lady Bing candidate. I'm going to give him three or four or even five games. That's crazy. Hey, I got an idea. In person hearing. in person hearing everybody flips out oh my gosh

it's gonna be six plus it might be dead it might be 20 then you cancel the in person hearing because of the weather and you drop five on them and everyone goes oh okay well that was reasonable then you just spend we all think we want

and everyone's going leaf bands won leaf fans talked them down is George Perruss playing 4D chess on us here let's see where are we at we're in 19 minutes of the record you spent 15 minutes being like no there's no there's there's no there's no conspiracy theory and then we're like actually there there is there is

though I just what if what if what if there were what if I what if I just knew the last 15 minutes of what we have of what we talked about I'm just saying but that would be a that would be a good conspiracy theory that would be like that would be smart right are they that's like I think I think this I think this was this was one of the times where like it's a it's a guiding light I think of of being a nobody wants to get yelled at so many things that we do on a day to day basis is just to stop from getting yelled at and i think it's possible that some of that mindset took over for peros right where he's like what is okay where i got i got to suspend him what it is the number in the course of action that'll get me yelled at the least in in person hearing with with a

with a five gamer it seemed like it worked it seemed like it worked like it worked like i I don't like, I think, I think, right? Are people, are people pissed at the Department of Player's Safety? Like, yeah, absolutely, because they always are. But I agree with you. Like, there's fewer of them that are, there's fewer people that are mad now. And if you're trying not to get yelled at, with virtually every other suspension decision you have to make, there's the team that got, the team that did the thing that's getting a player suspended,

and there's the team on the receiving end. and nobody else is just kind of like, you know, weighing in or whatever. But generally speaking, nobody else really cares. Whereas with the Leafs, it becomes this national and sometimes beyond that story. And you got like, man, I'm going to have everyone yelling at me. Oh, not just the number up a little bit. That's it. That's it.

That's all it is. It's just basic human nature. But now they can't do it anymore because we finally had the big freak out over it. Now it'll probably go the other way. Can't you just, you talk about where are we at in the storyline? I forgot the obvious one, which is the next time literally anything happens in a Leafs game that is even potentially Department of Player Safety Worthy. Oh, it's going to be horrible.

It's going to be bad news. It's going to be terrible, especially if it's anything remotely like this. God help us the next time some Maple Leaf scores a goal and bumps into somebody on the way to because we're going to have to have the whole, we're going to break it down like the Zapruder film on whether this. We got precedent all around. We know how it's approached from a league. And if there's one thing the Department of Player Safety loves,

it's finding a precedent and sticking to it, baby. If we haven't had the David Peron, has like Alan Walsh weighed in? That feels like another. I was, we're going to slot you in for Thursday. Okay, Walsh, we'll, let Trill Living have the spotlight today.

We're stacked up on Tuesday and Wednesday. We can knock this. I had that thought. I had that thought yesterday. watching Oilers Red Wings, which was a bizarre game. Prawn's out there, he had a goal and an assist, and he's doing David Prond stuff. Whatever, whatever, whatever happened with that.

By the way, this is, this does bring to a close. Again, this is going to be a recurring segment every single show for us, which is we just talked for 25 minutes about Morgan Riley and Ridley, Greg. It's going to continue every week into a few weeks ago. Luckily, something happened, because otherwise. it was going to be a tough, tough slog, but,

uh, we had like, we had a classic DGB post hit this morning, though, because you did the, the top 20 unwritten rules. That's one, that was one of those ones where I was like,

have you, have you done any unwritten rules? Or not the top 20, not certainly not definitive because I know, even as I was writing it, I'm like, I'm missing so many of these. Have you not done that?

Like, I, I was trying to go back and see if, like, you, you seriously don't, didn't, I didn't see any old.

Like this wasn't your recycling stuff This is like this is fresh Yeah I've talked about it before I've written about unwritten rules But I've never sat down and tried to Write down as many as I could And then of course Rate them based on how ridiculous

They are because some of these are pretty dumb And how easily And how easily easy it was a transition In and out of them right? Because like number six begets number seven And some of them do Some of them seem to conflict Some of them are yeah

It's, yeah, and most of them on the ice, some of them off. And I've already got like in the comments, people are like, what about this one? And I'm like, yeah, I should have had that too. That's another one. So I was waiting for weird sport. Nobody can agree on what the rules are and when they're enforced. And, you know, sometimes they seem to, you know, like the ones around fighting, right? Mm-hmm.

You know, if you and I are going to fight, we both have to get the gloves out. We are. Nobody jumps anyone. the fights over as soon as somebody goes down to the, you know, all of that stuff, unless, you know, you've done something to break one of the other rules and then I'm allowed to jump you or maybe I'm not, I'm allowed to jump you, but if that results in you getting hurt, then it's a big problem and, you know, all of this stuff. Yeah.

I thought maybe by writing down these rules that it would give some clarity, I don't think it did. That's one you go and see where you're like, okay, I'm going to actually, I need, I need to get some of the stuff straight for myself. and figure out where I stand on this. Like you're doing yourself a favor. Let's sit down and do the top. I was, okay, maybe waiting. 12?

I'm up to, at some point the editor's like, yeah, I need to talk to you about your 18,000 word article. 27 unwritten rules. I was waiting for the illegal curve one to jump up because I know that's been, that's like one of my favorite. That's one of my favorite DGB hobby horses. Isn't that a weird one? it's it's I you're dude

I preach it you're preaching the choir on it I think I once wrote like could you imagine if these days maybe it'll happen imagine if Bill Belichick got bored of football and was like I'm gonna try a new sport and he came in to coach a hockey team and he was looking in the rule book and he was like

oh this so we can challenge and get a free power play like do a lot of guys have illegal curves and you're like yeah Bill lots half the league you basically can have a free power play whenever you want But nobody ever does it. What about if it's overtime of game set?

Nope. You cannot do it. When was the last time we had one? Was it Ron Wilson on Jason Spetsa or has there been one since then? I think it had to be that, right? Because that's like how long ago, oh my God, how long ago is that now? Is that 15 years ago? I want to say like 2009.

Yeah. So it's, yeah. Oh, boy. That is brutal. And whatever. And of course, the most famous one, Jacques Demare's, against the, the LA Kings in 93,

wins them the cup. Remember, LA wins game one of the final in Montreal. Game two, they're leading by one goal with a couple minutes left.

Jock Demers calls for the stick measurement on Mario McSorily, and the rest is history, literally. It happened with, I think Kovilchuk had one at some point.

Yep. It's happened a few times, but, you know, and as I said in the piece, Like people say, well, you know, maybe it's that like, so many players have illegal curves that it's like, you know, you don't, you don't do it to me. I don't do it to you sort of thing. But like, which is like, lots of players go off sides.

How far. I don't. It doesn't stop these guys from grinding the game to a halt for 10 minutes. That speaks to something is you can't, you can't call out misbehavior by by one of group of people because it's everyone actually misbehaves in the same in the same way. That's something. It's very strange. It's one of the only rules in the entire rulebook that you have to ask the officials to enforce. And we don't do it.

I wonder we need to, listeners, do it in the comments, do it on. I want to know who we think has the most illegal curve in the league right now. Yeah. And I also want to know who's the coach that's going to do it. Was back in the game, baby. It has to be Patrick Waugh, right? But he never did it with Colorado. They keep dropping games, man.

It's going to be desperation season for, oh, boy. You know what? I don't know, but don't you feel like, like, Wa would do it, but don't you feel like Lamarillo wouldn't let him? Like, don't you feel like that's one of Lamarillo's weird unwritten rules is? Waugh freaks out and calls for her, then gets Kian the next day. It's like, lose. Yeah.

Omerita. Oh, we've got, we've got some sort of a thing. And the camera cuts. to Patrick Waugh at the bench, and then it cuts to the official measuring the stick and announcing the penalty. And then it just cuts back to the I under bench and Lamerolo is behind there. And like, Watt's just never seen again. Just that.

Yeah. He's just like, he just envived right out. There's no explanation. He's coaching a team in the queue within set within, you know, whatever, 24 hours. All right. That is a very weird one. I do not understand it. There's 19.

There's 19 other ones on this list. I read them. rapaciously today. We're going to our first break together. Congratulations, man. We made it. And we're coming back and we'll talk about stuff that actually happened in games last night. Did you know that Connor McDavid?

I went to bed not realizing that he had six assists last night. I was I was unaware. I did not know that because I'm an Eastern hockey writer. You don't watch, you don't watch West Coast games. I don't watch any games that. to start after 7 p.m. But I woke up to the news and my reaction was like, oh, yeah. That's it.

Anyone else in the league, I would have been like, holy crap, I got to find the highlights, I got to do all that. I was just like, oh, six. Okay. Good for him. Six assists. He's ridiculous. Tied for third in points.

He's 13 behind Kutjav. This man was 41st in scoring at one point. I know that was a long time ago now, but like do we disagree that this is we just agree that this is going to happen? Like he's going to have. Yeah. I think it's, I think,

I think we're there. The big question is how is what needs to happen for him to, for him to jump to the top of the heart of the heart ballot stuff. Because I feel like we, I feel like if he, if that team, if they finish in first and if he ends up, if it comes down to the last weekend or something and he,

and he's there in scoring. I think it's going to happen. I think the case in the narrative is going to be so overwhelming that he's just, that he's just going to win it again, and he'll deserve it. People are tired of voting for him, but. I say it all the time. I say it all the time. Voter fatigue is so real when it comes of this stuff.

And the best example. The narrative of... A hundred percent. Shaquille O'Neal won one MVP during the course of his MBA career. That's always like... Nathan McKinnon old enough to be in the Drew Doughty Lifetime Achievement Award thing? It's a great question. I felt like ahead of the All-Star break,

I felt like the narrative had coalesced around McKinnon in such a way where he almost seemed like a lock. But there's always that like rejoinder. There's always that little asterisk that comes with all these discussions where like, unless McDavid goes off and does something crazy, and makes the case so overwhelming that you can't vote for anything. anybody else. And I feel like last night might have been the start of him, of that, of that road for him. Like, because he could, he could, obviously he can do this. He could do this again tomorrow, right?

That's just, that's just the way, the way it goes. Um, I don't, I don't, I feel like, I feel like it, the snowball is rolling down the hill here, I think. And the thing with, with the narratives is if you had said, before the season, like, look, there's going to be a team that's going to start off terribly. They're going to be like 3 and 12, but then their best player is going to go nuts. And they're going to catch fire the rest of, they're going to roll over everyone,

and they're going to finish first by the end of the year. You'd be like, oh, that's the MVP. But if you then reveal that it's McDavid and the Oilers, a team we all expect it to be good, does that still, like we love that kind of, you know, like Taylor Hall getting it, because the devil's made the playoffs by one point when nobody thought it would. But that's another one.

That was McDavid fatigue. He should have gotten it that year. Yeah. And McKinnon is it's not like anyone thought Colorado wasn't going to be good. So he doesn't get, you know, he doesn't get the lifting the team points. Tampa Bay, you know, maybe, especially with Vasiliskyo, you'd say, you know, that's more of the old school value. but there isn't an obvious candidate

and you know 80% of the heart trophy is just who's the best player who had the best season and we know McDavid's the best player there's no dispute about that if he wins the scoring title there's going to be a lot of twisting into knots to try to figure out somebody else to vote for

especially the fact that McKinnons never won it but in especially because especially because McDavid if if he actually comes back and do this, like you'll have the, he'll have the finishing kick element, because that's a huge part of it too.

Like, if some, like, games at the end of the schedule are just weighted more heavily than games at the front of it. Like, that's just the way it goes.

It's, it's recency bias. It's human nature. So we're all like, if, if he gets in, if he's like really within spitting distance, by the time this is all said and done,

it's going to be because his numbers in February and March and April were other, we're otherworldly, right? And people aren't, people aren't going to be able to turn away from that. Who would you vote for today? Today.

You? Today? Yes. I'd probably go McKinnon today. I probably would. And again, like, some of that's the, the recency of the, his, when he just went nuclear over, like, the Christmas break and that for, it's still recent enough, but. Uh-huh.

And he's playing, he's playing 25 minutes a night and they don't have a middle six. and there's so much more, I think people have internalized this idea that the abs are great, because they are, whatever. They win a cup, right? And they're at the top of the table, you know, every each and every night. But they're there because of McKinnon and McCar and Miko Rinton.

That is so much more of a top-heavy team than anybody wants to admit. And I think part of it is like we internalize them as having three or four effective lines two years ago. just kind of assume that that's always the way that it's been and it is like that that's a team that relies more heavily on on its stars than than than most than than than than than the most contenders and I think he's the tip of the spear there so I'm as of right now Jonathan Druon is number five in scoring on that team I can't get over that man that's a guy that a lot of people just now remembered

is on the Colorado Avalanche mm-hmm you know no land of scog obviously all year long um Ranting in is a beast, and Kail Makar is that, Kail Makar is the best or second best defenseman in the league this year, which is maybe that's the part where you go, well, can you have two guys on the same team? I think, don't take this the wrong way. You never wish injury on anybody, but if you want Nathan McKinnan win the MVP,

Kail McCar missing a couple of weeks down the stretch would not be the worst thing that could, I don't bolster the case. McCar did you know McCar missed like five games earlier in the year and McKinnon well he missed he missed five games early in the year and it seemed like that was maybe going to cost him the Norris at at one point and then like you then he hit a little bit of a dip in play and it seems obviously seems like it's Quinn Hughes to lose to lose now but yeah whatever are there is are there any other candidates because

I was just about to say like like there I wish there were someone I wish there were some like some surprise like dark horse here and I yeah you know there's always and they're always is and there will be this year. I mean, there's going to be somebody that scores 60 points in the second half and it ends up there. But I'm, you know, just looking at it now, Pasturnec is, is there in the scoring too, but. I think we've, I think we've all just, the Vancouver guys are going to split votes. It's impossible to vote for a Vancouver guy because there's three of them, really. Yeah, and none of us have ever watched one of their games. I, I keep hearing things about,

these Vancouver Canucks and one of these days I'm going to catch one of their games. I'm going to Google them at some point and see what's happening there. But you know what? Not today. Is there it? And yeah, I guess there's this is not every year I kind of beat the drum that, hey, this award isn't just for forwards. What about a defenseman?

What about a goalie? It kind of is. Connor Hellebuck, I would have made a case for up to even a couple of weeks ago now that the jets have cooled off. I think I think there's a decent chance that Panera. Aaron ends up being the guy that comes in and in siphon some votes away from other people. He's been, he's been unbelievable. If he had a big finishing kick, then.

I think it's possible. I can see that. He decided to shoot the puck again. It's wild. We have to consider Bobby McMahon. Is it possible to play 32 games and win a heart? About to find out. I think so.

When you score three goals in each one of them. Every game. It is. Did you know that Alex Olveschka is on a six-game goal streak? I found out when he hit five. because I had kind of tuned out on the Alexander Rovichkin goal watch because it wasn't going well. And it was bumming me out. It was a sad sad state.

Like whatever. Okay. So I think a run like this was always was always possible, maybe not probable. But I think, you know, the shot's not what it was. The volume's not what it was. But it's still better than 10 goals through 43 games or whatever he was at. did I see a six-game street coming up for the lad? I don't.

I also don't think so. But this is, it's, it's a good thing because obviously you have the goal chase, the Griskey chase. And I know some people are, some people want to see the record broken. Some people don't. But the worst case scenario here was always that he just stuck around for five years, scoring 15 goals a year. It's going to be right.

To crawl over it. And ideally, we won't get that. And it feels like the days of the 50 goal of Etchen are over, which means we probably have to wait this year and maybe we don't get it next year. But nobody wants to see him just out there, like in his Willie Mays in the San Francisco Giants uniform, Mets uniform phase. So I just, I want to know how far he would debase himself to break. to break the record.

Like, like, would he be fine? Would he be fine muddling through a nine goal season in 20, 26, 27 for those? Like, like, what are the, what were the, what were the caps do? There, I mean, I feel like the caps would keep selling tickets and they got, they got, they got nothing else. That team, so. That team is in, that team is in some trouble. Yeah. So, but I, I, I hope it doesn't come to that.

And this last couple weeks gives us some suggestion that it won't. Speaking of muddling through some late career seasons, we have a Phil Kessel updates. Obviously, it's going to be a fun night and, you know, try not to throw up. Our lad is in Vancouver. Oh, how I hope this happens. All my Google alerts for Phil Kessel return finally, finally popped up. Vancouver and does this not feel like oh yeah of course Vancouver

why didn't we see this good because because in Pittsburgh correct me if I'm wrong but Rick Talkett that was his thing right he was the Phil Kessel whisper he was the only guy that could get Phil to you know put down the he was the buffer specifically between Phil and in Mike Sullivan like he was he was the Kessel whisper but part of the reason there needed to be a Kessel whisper is because is because Salvador was like I

can't I can't I can't I can't I can't I can't I can't I can't deal with this dude Todd taught taught taught that was you Brotherford you know like this this makes perfect sense and it's a per like you know you want him to go to a team that's already a great team every team in the NHL needs more secondary scoring because that's

the cap era it feels like a perfect fit and he's got one he's got one year clearly of just being, you know, he was, he was more than happy to hang out in the press box during, during the playoffs last year for Vegas. He had, he had no problem with that. You know, he's, he's, he's, he has that particular strain of ego or pride, which is, which is cool to see. So he's, he did halfway through a season, you would have had to have let it go by now. A hundred. And he does still have the game streak because that didn't, that doesn't count the

playoff. So he's very funny. But, you know what? I mean, you, Wouldn't you almost say, like, sign him to a contract and then sit him the very first night and just get the straight. Get it out of the way. That's a great idea. It's not going to help. Yeah. I feel like, and I feel like, again, with where he's at in his career and specifically where he's, you know, now even relative to two years ago, I think he'd be, he got to figure he'd be far with that. Like, we're just, we're throwing that out.

It doesn't need, it doesn't need to be an issue, 10 days from now, whenever it would happen more organically. just be like, we're done. He's scratched. Yep. Yeah, we're not going to be doing the Phil Kessel ice time watch. He's just going to come in, be, you know, play half the games. Come be on the second power play unit. Do Phil Kessel things.

Do Phil stuff. Everybody, everyone's congratulating. Congratulations to everybody in Vancouver, by the way, because now they can write their Phil, fills the, you know, here's what Phil brings to a locker room story. He, like, Drencer just, he hit, he hit gold. here. I'm happy for him. Everybody deserves it.

The cup rings comes in, you know, that's perfect for these teams. It's, it's an absolutely perfect fit. And I'm mad, I'm mad that I didn't have the Kessel to Vancouver piece ready to go because I didn't see this. Like as soon as I,

it was like, oh, Phil Kessel, coaches hate this guy. Who's a coach? Oh, right. Boom.

Perfect. The one guy. They just had, they had too many, they had too many forwards or too many wingers for a little bit, right? and then they move out Kuzmenko for Lindholm. I feel like that probably opens a spot. It opened up some kind of slot where you send out a guy who annoys Tocket

and you can bring in a different guy who doesn't, but kind of should, but doesn't enjoy the six days off that he had. And look, everyone's also going to make all our jokes about like, all what kind of shape is Phil Kesslerlitt and everything. But this dude played a thousand games. games in a row. That is still the greatest go back in time and tell hockey fans that something's going to, like, you go back in time and be like, well, Vetchkin might break Gretzky's record. People will be like, yeah, I could see it. You just go back and be like, hey, guess who's

going to be the first guy to get to a thousand game streak and break the Iron Man streak? It's the tubby guy on the Leafs who doesn't practice in the offseason and is winded after every shift. That guy. The man is the man is a testament to energy conservation. That's what that's what it is.

He just, he knows he's work, work smart, not hard. That's, that is the definition. He's got enough energy for a 45 second shift. He uses all of it.

He gets to the bench. He has a near death experience. And he recuperates in time for the next shift. We need, we need to see it. We need. And with the other,

thing specifically is we need him to play with like whatever Besser or J.T. Miller or something and just hook up to the hook up to the Canucks PDO machine because like I want I want him to come out and have you know, whatever 11 points in his first five games or something like it needs it needs it needs to happen. I a few about a month ago I said that Canucks were the most interesting team in the league and I mean this is this is almost unfair now like this is you talk about running up the about it up the score. Finding Phil Kessel is the clapper into an empty net of being an interesting team. It's just they're not even like is it I every year in the playoffs I write my bandwagon rankings.

Like here's just like the 16 teams. Here's the like is there any. I just, you can just write it now. Is there any point to even writing it this year? Just write it. Just write it now. You'll probably have to like fill in a name or two because there's still three weeks before the deadline and Rutherford

is going to do something weird. Like you can there will be you can like rear. You can rearrange some furniture here and it'll be fine. Bring back Joe Thorpe. Let's do it. Man. We're at another break. We need to figure out what to do in the third segment and then we're going to do that.

And then we're going to come back and have it. How's that sound? I feel like this could easily turn into a recurring segment over the next couple months. I can go like what the hell is going on in the Metro Division. I feel like every, every day I wake up, I look at the state. ending. I sort by, you know, points percentage or whatever. I look at this glut of teams from like three to seven in that division. And I ask myself, are any of them any good? Right. Who, what, what metropolitan division teams do we think are good or half decent or I guess most relevantly are

going to are going to make the playoffs? And we need to continue checking in on this because it's something that seems to change after every, after every slate of games. Because again, none of them, none of them are that good. And there's a lot, so there's a lot of volatility in the,

in the, in the, in the, in the, in the, standing. So we're, so we're going to go through and we're going to try to

figure out which four teams from the Metro are going to, are going to actually, are going to actually make the playoffs. Just a nice little temperature check on the, on the American, on the American division here. It is what they should call it, but,

That's another argument entirely. So we're putting the Rangers in. Yes. The range, that's another team that annoys me because they drive me insane. Every year there's a few teams where I feel like I'm always a week behind on the narrative. And the Rangers are that team that all year long, I'm like, they're good, they're good, they're really good. And then they were like, we actually haven't been good for a bit.

We actually haven't been good for a bit. in Igor Shisterkin hasn't been good at all. And so then, like a couple weeks ago, it feels like everybody was like, all right, Caroline is good again.

All right. So this is now Carolina is going to pass the Rangers and we get it. And now the Rangers have won five in a row as we record this, which is, it feels rude,

frankly. It's, so they're in the playoffs because we're not doing standard. Yeah. They're in. Because I mean, because it really,

It's like people, you know, is Jonathan quick and it takes starts from Igor Shisterkin? And he did. He has. And then Shisterkin last start shuts out the flames. Like, I know that's not particularly hard, but I don't know. Yeah. Whatever. They're the, I'm comfortable saying that they're the best team in the division.

I just don't know how legit. Okay. So, so one seed and the bet, like the, like the, favorites to come out of the division? Because then this brings us to Carolina, who are also making the playoffs. Well, just like that, whether, if it's the Rangers,

when was, when will the last time of Ben where we had a number, where we had a division winner, possible Tom Seed coming out of a conference? And you're just like, I don't know. Yeah. This is like Southeast division

shit happening. Except that there was no Igor Shisterkin in the southeast division that I remember. Like, I, it aren't the Rangers, like, I'm not fully on board with the Rangers, but can't you envision a scenario where they come in? They got whole mice at the very least. And next thing you know, it's the conference final and the Rangers have just won two series, both in five games. It's just certain and allowed three goals and both of them. And you're like, oh, right.

Maybe we overthought this because these guys are are really good after all. The thing I just, the thing I just keep saying is it's like, sometimes sometimes guys just have seasons like this and there's no reason for it and it's not like it's not necessarily you know a predictor on how the rest of their career will go and it's not in line with how the rest their careers like led up to it sometimes sometimes dudes just aren't good and there's and there's no there's no real explanation for it and it's just it's just one of those years and i think we need to i think we need to consider that chasturkin might be might be in the middle of one of those i don't know two Carolina yeah

902 as of right now for Shisterkin. Carolina speaking to goaltending. That's kind of what we're all waiting on is do they figure out the goaltending one way or another. If that's Freddie Anderson comes back, great. If that's somebody they've got internally, great. If it's a trade, which is what we're all kind of in this business, that's what we want, right? Go get Markstrom, go get U.C. Saros or something like that. Flurry.

I feel like as soon as that happens, everybody goes, all right, hurricanes are now our top pick, but not there yet. A big variable, too, for them. I actually wrote, I wrote about Andreas Fetchnikov's knee rehab this week, but it had been a story that I, like, reported out. You know, I talked to him for the first time in November, right? And then he had an injury. Then he came back and he was great. and I talked to him again at the end of this unbelievable run that he had in January with the intention of publishing it then.

And then he got hurt again. Like it's just random, it's random nagging stuff. It's an oblique thing that's been, that's been bugging him. And now he's back. The glass half full is like that this dude is now 11 months out from ACL rehab. He looked unbelievable when he came back.

That's like the consensus still is like, for all the advancements that we've made and. rehab technology and for as much of a beast as Svetnikov is in the workout room and all that, it's still a torn ACL and you're still not really going to feel like yourself until you're 12 months out after the initial injury. Optimism for Carolina is, like I said, we're almost 11 months on the dot out from it now, right? So you're like, okay, this dude is going to be fully operational in time for the stretch run. And the pessimistic view is like, is, is it just one of those years for him where it's like, yeah, he was like had had some knee discomfort at the start of it.

And then he had the oblique and he had some other lower body thing. Is it just like one of those things where he's, he's never going to really hit his stride this season? And that's, that's the, that's the pessimistic view. But I think that's always what it is with, with Carolina. Right? It's like, are, our Ajo and Svetnikov going to be good enough at the top of that lineup to give those guys the pop that they need? you know, over the course of a long playoff series. Then you throw in the goalie question, too.

I don't know. They're fascinating. Yeah. And right now, 10th goals for, 10th goals against for Carolina. So for a team that it feels like narratives are always, goal tennis is not good enough. They don't have enough scoring power. Top 10.

I mean, that doesn't get, that doesn't get you like cup favorite status. But that. You can work, though. It could be worse. This is where stuff starts to get interesting. spot three 64 points the fill isn't right now

it's the flyers and I'm starting to get I don't know I don't know about you but I spent the first half of the season not really buying the flyers and flyer fans didn't seem to be buying it and now I'm finally starting to get the hey

you're sleeping on these guys why where are the flyers you know that this good young team. Torterill has done a fantastic job. Might be taking the Jack Adams from Rick Tocket. I can't believe that that's happening, but it kind of feels like it is. Like I wrote Talkett in for the Jack

and permanent marker at the start of the season. I was like, this is done media friendly dude. Everyone loves him. He's on a team that's primed to improve. And they've been unbelievable. And we're still like, I kind of think I kind of. think torts is is going to come up and snag it every year there is the team that nobody buys

that just hangs around and hangs around and and sometimes eventually makes it it was Seattle last year um right now it's Philadelphia and they've got and and it's it's one of these things and it just tells you how crazy the NHL is like they weren't even trying for this and by they I mean like Danny Breyer in the front office like they were clearly in rebuild mode, let's ship out some contracts. They went and they use a high pick on a kid that's not even to come over for a few years. It was very clearly like we're looking down the road here. And yet, everything's breaking right.

So let's put it out there. Is this team making the playoffs? I think you almost, I think it would be a disappointment now if they, if they don't, because the teams that are chasing them are a significant, like measurably, significantly behind and also not that good like they got a bunch of flawed teams coming up coming up from behind here and we're going to go whatever we'll go into them now new jersey jack hughes is back that's a major whatever that's an important an important point to make but that's a still a team decimated by injuries duggy's out he has been for for for most of the season

plenty of other other issues there and they have again we're talking about goalie issues for Carolina no team has more severe goalie issues than New Jersey is Bannacheck Bannichick bad so like what do we everyone everyone it would be great to be able to say like all right here come the devils like like they're they're writing the ship at the at the correct time but like there's still there's a there's a lot of problems there and there's six points behind the flyers. Like, we're, this is like,

games in hand. That, that's true. I, I still think the devils make it. And, uh,

especially now that they're getting healthy again, minus Hamilton, he's not, he's not coming back. Not during the regular season, at least. I, the thing about the goaltending is,

if, if you don't have a starting goaltender, that's both the worst problem you can have. Because as we've seen, with multiple teams every year, if you don't have goal ten, you don't have anything. And none of the rest of what you do matters if you're always giving up that backbreaking goal. So it's the worst problem to have. But in a way, it's also the best problem to have.

Because if you've got a lousy blue line, you can't go and get six defensemen. You've got no scoring depth. You can't go and get five forwards. But if you don't have no starting goalie, you need one guy. And is that one guy out there? Now, we had the reports that they got really close. on Jacob Markstrom and then weren't able to push it over the finish line and we don't know if that was from the New Jersey side or the Calgary side or no trade related or who knows. But they're clearly taking the swing at that.

They don't even need, yeah. I feel like they're good enough to make the playoffs. Yeah. Yeah. What, I don't know that they need Mark. They need their own version of like Jonas Corpusolo for the Kings last year or something. Just like a dude.

Jake Allen. maybe great could be the guy just a guy who comes in and gives them an option that is not at the bottom of the league in every in every conceivable way like guys i'm not gonna stand on my head here i'm not gonna win you anything i'm not i'm not gonna stink though yeah you don't have to worry that every time you know the puck comes into our zone have to play you don't you don't have to play scared because you be because you're worried about worried about me So I put New Jersey in, and I'm going to put New Jersey ahead of Philadelphia. Okay. I like that. And then it's a question of can one of these other three teams catch up to the flyers? Islanders, Caps, Penguins. Islanders was the shortest coach bounce we've ever seen.

They're under, they've now lost more games and they've won under W. Yeah. And Staples had a good piece today about that and how the, you know, the bounce isn't. happening and some of the improvements are there and obviously and we're talking to eight games so could still go in a few directions but they feel like a team that's sputtering would maybe be in a nice way to put it the caps are awful i god bless them for stack in 54 points thus far their goal differentials minus 37 did you know that wow they they stink and yet Based on raw points, they are ahead of the Pittsburgh Penguins who have four games in hand on some teams and three on most.

Five games in hand on the flyers for the Penguins. So that's the interesting one because the Penguins are 11 points back at the Flyers, which at this time of year, it's over. But they've got five games in the hand. Until you look at that one column that a lot of people kind of gloss over. Shout out to the schedule maker, by the way, for putting no effort at all into balancing anything this year. So, hey, you win all five of those games, you're one point back. But also, you're the penguins.

L loser. Loser behavior is saying, like, yeah, we win every game in hand we have. We're cooking with gas now. Winning two of those games feels like a challenge sometimes with these guys. And the thing with the penguins is they've got this fascinating Jay Gensel situation hanging over everything where they've got arguably the number one player potentially on the trade market, but do they move him? And what does that say?

And what is the signal that you send if you're Kyle Lubas and you go to Sydney Crosby and say, hey, man, great job on the season. You're putting up MVP season. It's insane what you're doing in your late 30s. But I'm waving the white flag. I'm quitting on this team. I'm going to trade Jay Gensel. I'm going to get a first round pick.

and some prospects that we desperately need because the cupboard is pretty bare but none of those assets are going to help a lot of this. Okay, so let's see. We're recording this on February 14th. The trade deadlines on what, the 6th of March?

8th of March, yeah. 8th of March? 11 games. Like, they will know beyond a shadow of a doubt by the time the deadline rolls around whether they have a chance in hell to get to get this done.

So if we're talking, because by that point, the games in hand, you know, will have vanished. And we can make like apples to apples comparisons about this team and say like, you guys are through 61 games. You were eight points out of a wild card spot.

Like, see you later. Like, we got it. We got to do this. Sorry. Or it's going to be like, there are two points out.

Or they're, or, they're going to have enough of a chance to justify not punting on the season that Sidney Crosby is at. Which case, Jake Gensel gets a seven-year extension and just throwing money, throwing money down the whole bit. Al Dupus is like got all the chips in the middle. He's like looking around on the floor to see if any of them are we can pick something

else and throw it in there. Yeah. And then, I mean, how fascinating is, is it that it could come down, that last playoff spot could come down to the Penguins, a team that went all. in versus a Flyers team that was maybe not even trying to have a playoff caliber roster

and it could come right down to those two teams who I'm told have maybe a little bit of a rivalry some light some light history let's let's call it you know what the fun thing is is that we get to talk about this you and I once a week

again for forever in perpetuity this will never ever go away. Until I get fired for my rampant leafs homerism. I was going to say you get deported, but what are you going to do? You're already in Canada. Could be that too.

Banned from working for American people. Found in a snow ditch with a George Perro's fist-sized hole in the side of my head. Yeah, that all sounds about right. With a violent gentleman T-shirt, thrown over your corpse. Well, no. This has been fun.

Good happen. We get to, like I said, we get to do it again next week. Pretty sweet. Thank you guys for listening to the Athletic Hockey Show. Please leave us a five-star rating. This is me begging for that. In review, if you're enjoying the show. There's new, like, again, we have reshuffled the decks.

I'm sure you guys know that. We got Lazanian on Monday and me and Sean on Wednesday and Haley and Max and me on Thursday. Sorry, I have two shows. It's kind of embarrassing, but play the hand that you're dealt. And right now, of course, you can get a one-year subscription to The Athletic for $2 a month when you visit theathletic.com slash hockey show. Thanks again for listening, and we will see you next week.

Bye-bye.