The Athletic Hockey Show - Oilers the favorites to win the Stanley Cup, trade destinations for Fleury and Zegras and the Flyers rebuild is on hold

Episode Date: January 17, 2024

Ian and Julian discuss the listless Maple Leafs who are in a tailspin, the Oilers who extended their franchise record 11 game winning streak, the surprising Flyers who are making a move in the Metro, the Canucks who are looking to add at the deadline and possible trade destinations for Marc-Andre Fleury and Trevor Zegras. Down Goes Brown joins to comment on Mitch Marner's puzzling post game comments after yet another Maple Leaf loss and what bubble playoff teams should be worried now? Plus the guys stick tap Cody Hodgson who has come out of retirement after signing a PTO with Milwaukee of the AHL.  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the Athletic Hockey Show. Hello everybody and welcome to your Wednesday edition of the Athletic Hockey Show. If you're catching us on YouTube, you'll see the smiling face of one Julian McKenzie. What are you, are you grinning because in the last few days, Julian, the Dallas Cowboys have imploded and the Toronto Maple Leafs seem to be following suit. Like, do you have such a big grid? grid on your face. Stop, stop, stop. I'm going to stop you right there, Ian Mendez.

What we are not going to do is, is put me on blast as some kind of Toronto Maple Leafs hater knowing damn well. The other podcast that I do features a lot of Toronto Maple Leaf fans who listen to it. You are not going to do that to me, sir. You could not be more wrong. I am not smiling for anyone's demise today. Don't do this. Oh, man.

I tried to lure you in. You try. You tried that. You tried that. No. No, no, no. I, you know what's funny? No, I was smiling because I love hearing your voice on the intro. Oh, yeah. I get to do this podcast with my friend. And I was in a great move to start off my Wednesday. And all of a sudden, you just decided to say, hey, Toronto fans, my co-host hates you. No, no. No, no. I think people appreciate. Remember we talked about cheering for this story as reporters. Yes. Is there a more interesting story than when the Dallas Cowboys and the Toronto Maple Leafs and maybe the New York Yankees

and whoever else you want to put the list? When they are in a state of chaos, it's kind of fun to watch with a big, like you just make a big old bag of microwave popcorn and you sit back and look, the Maple Leafs, they get that, what, Austin Matthews is like 30 seconds into the game. You're like, here we go.

Matthews McDavid. Then they're up to nothing. and I'll tell you, they've had an issue here. It happened against the avalanche, happened against the Red Wings. They're blowing leads. And like, I don't know what to think because you look at their regulation time wins. And they're hanging out with the worst teams in the league.

Like, they have no business being in a playoff spot. And so, like, I guess I ask you this, the last five years, Julian, we have listed the Maple League. as a legitimate Stanley Cup contender, right? Fair to say last five years, you would roll in and say put Toronto with Tampa, Boston, and whoever else you want to put on that kind of the higher,

the top of the list. Is that done? Are they no longer, have we downgraded them to playoff contender from Stanley Cup contender? It's so hard applying those labels to these types of teams because hockey in itself is so unpredictable. In fact, I was talking with a couple of these friends yesterday,

and I made the point that in spite of whatever they're feeling right now and how it's the, remember, it's the fans that feel chaotic, and the team you're seeing on the ticker if you're watching on YouTube here, Mitch Marner more or less downplayed whatever frustrations they might be feeling, saying they're not frustrated. It's the fans who feel their team should be more heightened and feeling more of that chaos. They're feeling all this right now, and people are wondering if they're just a mid-team, if they're not good enough. But then if they make the playoffs as a wild card and then go on a run a la Florida Panthers from last year,

that's just how it works in the NHL. Like, I have such a hard time applying or taking away that label because all the, all the Toronto Maple Leafs really need is a hot couple of weeks later on this year. As long as they don't fall out of a playoff spot, they have as good of a chance as Eddie is still winning the cup for whatever reason. It's just we have seen Charlie Brown try to kick the football so many times with Lucy holding it, and we've seen Lucy pull back the football only for Charlie Brown to embarrass himself. This team just finds ways to embarrass itself at so many key moments.

Of course, if you want to take away that Stanley Cup contender label from them, sure. They haven't looked like it this year. A lot of the moves that Bradtree Living has made is GM bringing in guys like Tyler Bertuzi and Max Domey, they just have not worked for this organization. But for me to just kind of sit up here and be like, man, like this team is, this team sucks. So you take away this cup to tender label. I don't want to look like an idiot in April. I don't want to look like a dummy if they win two series in a row.

And then you mentioned a lot of fans love to dunk on these teams, these big teams like a Toronto, like a Dallas Cowboys, like a New York Yankees. And especially when they're not playing well, could you imagine if we all as a collective hockey world said that the Leafs have lost this illustrious cup status that we gifted to them for the last how many years, they get in as a wild card and they win the next two rounds? You know how insufferable producer Jeff would be for the company we saw of this show and Leif's fans? You're not going to get that answer out of me.

What I will say is this. They do need to figure out what's going on with the team they have right now. They need to figure out what's going on with these leads. In terms of their actual status, it might be too early to dictate what they really are because we've just seen in this league with so many teams that have that label get cut down to size way earlier than they should. I am, listen, you're going to sit on the fence. because you don't want Toronto fans coming back at you. No. I'm going.

I do not want some fans at me. No. Oh, you're going in? On the 17th of January, it's fair to say, and all we can do, all you can do is live in the moment. I'm not worried about, oh, how am I going to feel in April? We'll get to April when we get to April. On the 17th of January, they are not a Stanley Cup contender.

They are not. You cannot convince me that the way that. much time in a season. I don't get it. Like, yeah, it's January. Sure. So then why do we do anything by that logic? We shouldn't do any analysis. We should just sit back and say, wait until the 82 games is done.

We can only take Snapchat. I'm not saying you can't make analysis in the moment, but I'm not saying you can't make analysis in the moment. I'm just saying that like, there's like three months before the playoffs begin. Right. And there's still time to figure it out. Like, if the, if the Leafs go on like a, like the Leafs can go on like a five or six game winning streak.

I know they still have a whole bunch of other games left on this Western conference trip, but they can go on this winning streak and we're just going to be like, yeah, remember when they sucked like a couple weeks ago? This happens with this team in particular so many times where they go through these peaks and they look really good and then they fall down. They go through these valleys and everyone freaks out and then you go up again, then you go down again, then you go up again, then you go up again, then you go down again. And then they go in the playoffs and then they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they,

wet themselves. I'm not even a Leaps fan. I only have to follow the Leafs because that's my job for work and just following the league. Following the Leafs and seeing the fans just freak out over everything is exhausting.

Like I think the part, you're right. Me being on the fence, yeah, I don't want Leafs fans in my mention saying, hey, I'm wrong. Another part of me is just like, I want to give my brain a break because like I can't just keep up with the energies up here with this team. Again, I'm not a fan.

Just like, it's so much. it feels like every time they go on a losing streak like it feels like the end of the world there is no other NHL franchise that whose fan base feels this way about any loss right now and ever not not Canadian fans

not even Oilers fans it's the Leafs and their psychotic paranoid nature and everyone else it's exhausting to get swept up and stuff like this, even as media people. It really is. I would exchange the word exhausting for fun.

And I would say, again, and I can say this as a Dallas Cowboys fan. I get it. Everybody hates us as Dallas Cowboys fans. And that's life. That's how you choose. Look, I think it's funny. It's weird. I don't know, or maybe funny a weird is not the right word.

Since they sign, since they sign Nieland, four games, four losses, zero points for Neelander. It's like, oh no. Like, I don't, I don't say it's a bad bad. I'm just saying, but you're right. It is funny because William Neelander was playing his, playing the lights out for a good chook for a good chook of the season. And they sign him to that contract.

No points. Isn't it very leaps of that to happen? Yeah. A player who was playing so well. And people are wondering, oh, man, like that, that AV is just going up, the more that he plays. As soon as they lock that guy up, he's happy to be a leap forever, haggling over whatever, money on the table. As soon as they sign that deal, a four-game point strap. This is so leaps.

This is so, this is so them. It's crazy. Let's give some air time to the team that beat them and ran their winning streak to 11, and that's the Edmonton Oilers. you know, in Dom's model, he's got the Oilers with the best statistical probability now of winning the Stanley Cup. Think about where the Oilers were in late October and in November. And here they are 11 straight wins for the Oilers. They have the best statistical probability in Dom's model of winning the Stanley Cup. They've won 11 in a row.

And, man, quite frankly, Julian, I think. if you were, if you were to say, I got to pick one team to hitch my wagon, two, again, this is the January 17th conversation, not in April, in April, on April 17th, we'll have the conversation because on November 17th, it's always, it's an evolving fluid conversation. January 17th, boy, it's hard not to say that Edmont is the team to beat right now in the entire league. And that includes Winnipeg, Vancouver, the Rangers, and like whoever else you want to put on, on the top of the heap,

it's hard not to say that if you had to pick somebody to win a best of seven series right now, it wouldn't be the Ebbington Oilers. Which is funny because, yes, they have the best players in the world, but it feels like every other year we've nitpicked at their defense and we've nitpicked at their goaltending. But it just feels as if everything has gone right for this organization over these last 11 wins. We're talking about Zach Hyman as this like bordering superstar player with how he's been playing. it's been insane to see how Zach Hyman has stepped up for his team

but of course you have guys like Connor McDavid and Leon Drysado stepping up it's going to make a world of difference for the Emmington Oilers and if you pick them as a cup contender to start off the years you picked them as a team to make it to the Stanley Cup final I got to say you look pretty good at least with that there was a time when a lot of people

had the Oilers and the Carolina hurricanes those were the two teams that were supposed to be in the Stanley Cup final Carolina not so much now maybe goal tendings a bit of a question. But the Emmington Oilers, I sort of expect them to be a top three team in that division now. That's what it's come to.

They've been so good that, like, I think they're missing the playoffs. Something would have to go horribly wrong. Or you could argue whatever was supposed to go horribly wrong came early enough for this team. And they've dug themselves out of that hole. I still think it's one of the more impressive things we've seen. And it ultimately helps Connor McDavid's MVP case. nothing, Julian, is more impressive to me than the Philadelphia Flyers.

Look, we figured the Flyers would be a bottom five, bottom 10 team. Maybe if everything went well, maybe they finished 20th somewhere in that neighborhood. They're in second place in the Atlantic, in the Metro Division. And they got a super balanced attack. I was just, you know, double, like Owen Tippett's having a sneaky good year. He's got 16 goals. Farabee's got 15 goals. They're balanced.

They're not this like sort of top heavy team. Tortorella's got the goaltending that he, I think he needs and wants. They got a 9-10 save percentage. You know, I think a month ago, Flyers fans were split. They were like, yeah, it'd be better to miss the playoffs and get another pick and let's build this thing up.

Man, Julian, I'm a believer. I think when opportunity presents itself, I think you have to lean into it. And I think you have to just accept the fact that you might be a playoff team. And I'm not saying you need to trade your first round pick and go all in. But I think Flyers fans should enjoy this now. Like don't feel conflicted anymore. Like we're at the halfway point of season.

Maybe it won't last, but enjoy it. Like enjoy it because success in this league is fleeting. You never know how long it's. going to last. And if it's an addict, there's nothing more fun in sports than an unexpected magical season. And that's what's happening in Philadelphia. So enjoy it. I don't know how it's always going to last. And maybe you get bounced in the first round or second round, whatever, but enjoy it because it's a freebie. You didn't expect this. That's how I come down on. This is the fun part of being a rebuilding team. You've definitely seen it with the Ottawa

senators in some fashion. There are a lot of fans who desperately want that with their team, where they decide that they're not a contending team. They take the steps to get better players through the draft and commit to just kind of building themselves up. And when the team overperforms, yeah, fine. Maybe you hurt yourself in terms of getting a so-called better draft pick, but also it's a draft lottery.

Like it's a crapshoot to begin with. But for a team like Philadelphia, where we kind of thought they'd be in the muck for a little while for them to overperform. I'm using the word overperform here because as of now, there are four points back in the Metro Division behind the Rangers. That's one of the best teams in the Eastern Conference. Like one point up on Carolina, who was back in the top three spot in the Metro Division.

Like, this is a lot better than I ever expected. And it just, again, builds up to, well, not again, but John Tortorella, a guy who, it seems almost everywhere he's gone, he is going to take that lemon and he's going to squeeze out as much juice as he can get to get the best out of the lemon. And in this case of an analogy, the team, this just adds to his resume. And if you're a Flyers fan, your team is playing better. You have Jamie Drysdale on the team.

I mean, I haven't been able to keep track on how well he's been doing with the Flyers, but it seems like your younger players are going along well. unfortunately with a cutter go-cha situation, but you're able to move on. And that made Mitchcoff, when this team is real good and ready, should be able to come over and make an impact for your team.

You're a Flyers fan right now. You're right. You should have fun. You should take it and try and just enjoy it. I want to chat about Pierre LeBruns column this week, Julian, that I believe dropped on Wednesday. And that is,

and we talked about Mark Andre Fleury on Tuesday, that flower had passed Patrick Waugh, second all time and wins. What a great story. We chat with Mike Russo about it. LeBrundt has the idea that, look, if the wild continue to kind of just be mid and they're not a playoff team,

maybe, maybe Mark Andre Fleury is in play. And LeBrun floats out a couple of destinations. Now, a couple of them are obvious, and we always talk about this. Whenever somebody needs a goalie, you think of New Jersey, you think of Carolina. the goal tent. But he also mentioned the two teams that played each other in that highly anticipated

game on Tuesday. That's Edmonton. That's Toronto. And Pierre LeBron pointed out in his piece, Julie, that a couple of years ago, Flurry was willing to waive his no trade that go to Toronto, never came to fruition, but he was willing. So, look, this isn't the Flurry from five years ago. He's not a 930 save percentage guy.

his save percentage is a little bit under 900. But I wonder if a Toronto or a Carolina or New Jersey or whoever graded for Flurry, does just that swagger having them there as an insurance policy and they experience, is that the value? Or do you think actually we're going to hand the keys to him and he is going to be our guy? That's a good question. he's playing the role he's playing in Minnesota for a reason. He's not the same goaltender that we've seen at his peak.

I would think he'd be more insurance. I get goaltending insurance if you need it. Compared to some of the other goalies we've discussed yesterday, guys like Jacob Mark Marks Armstrong or an Elvis Merzleekins, Mark Andre Fleury is so much more affordable at 3.5 mil. And that contract expires at the end of the year. like that's a much more palatable contract to take in compared to a much more expensive goalie. So if you do, if you're able to move on for a few of the Minnesota while,

if you have to do that and you're a team that's in need of goaltending, is he the one A? Is he the one you need for your team? That remains to be seen. He would have to probably play a little bit better in order for you to have that confidence or you have to have a really good team in front of him where you know if you put him in, it doesn't matter what happens. he could help you lead your team to glory.

But tell you what, it seems like he'd be a much more cost-effective option than some of the other goaltenders out there. You know, I thought it was really interesting. I think Darren Dregor was the first to float this out about 10 days ago. Now it's gained some traction that Trevor Zegris's name might be in play.

I love the piece that Shana Goldman did saying, okay, first of all, like, why would the ducks trade him? What are his numbers looking like? And then Shana threw out a handful of teams. you know, Philadelphia, I think people make sense because I think it makes sense. Driesdale and him were tight. Maybe they reunite in Philly. Yeah, Montreal.

Trade partners. Yeah. Montreal might make sense. They're kind of in a rebuild looking for a dynamic guy. I think Chicago, you think, okay, what would be good about Chicago is he could go in and he's not the guy, right? Badaard is the guy. He can kind of slide in.

And then there's Boston is floated out by, by Shana. if Trevor Zegrois is indeed available, how many NHL teams, how many general managers should pick up the phone and call Pat Verbeek? Is it all 31? Is it just a handful? Is it like in your estimation,

if you think Zegroes is in play? And, you know, Calgary is a great example. They're a team that's kind of right in the middle how many teams should be in on Zikris? It really depends on how those general managers feel about Zecris as a talent. Like what's his ceiling? This guy's like what, 22 years old and we've hyped them up because of the

the Dishik. Remember the Dishigan? Remember when we talked to Mike Legg about the Michigan a couple years ago? And it was all because of the great goal he put together with Sunday Milano. And he does the lacrosse dog goal himself. He shows the flashes. But it feels. as if we're still waiting on him to take that next step in terms of being a truly elite player.

The thing is that he's still a super young talent. So there's time before he can eventually ascend to the heights of being an elite player. So if you're a team like Montreal, where I feel as if as soon as the idea was first floated around about like a week or two ago that Trevor Ziegers could be made available, I've seen Montreal people already get into the little trade machine starting to put together deals. I saw someone, I'm not saying this was a legit rumor or anything. I even saw someone say like, hey, do you flip Caden Gully?

What are their young defensive prospects? He's so good. Who's so good. Do you flip him to Anaheim for Trevor Secrets? That's a market that's already thinking, does that make sense? I don't know if every GM in the league should be doing it, but I'll say this. I think the interest and the teams that put themselves in there, tells you a lot, will tell you a lot about whether or not they view this guy as an elite talent.

I like the Chicago idea. I know a lot of people don't like the idea of Chicago game better for any reason, and I completely understand that. But there is a part of me that is intrigued at the idea of Chicago trying to establish some sort of continuity with the players that they've signed in terms of Nick Folino and Jason Dickinson, just to surround Connor Bardard. And then Carter Bardard has a guy like Trevor Ziegress, who has a lot of skill, as a young player can relate to Connor in some way.

A little older, you'll probably put him on game two, but he doesn't have to be the guy. Like, he can just be a star player while riding shotgun or playing second fiddle to one Connor Bedard. Like, that seems like a really intriguing idea.

It all depends on that cost, too. I can imagine if you're Anaheim, you're not letting this guy go for, for cheap. You're probably, you're hyping up the fact that he could still be a star talent, and you're trying to get as many,

you try to get picks and prospects back for a type of player of his caliber. I wonder what would be more interesting to you that Zegra ends up in Chicago with Baderd, and you can guarantee that they call that the Lake Michigan goal if he starts scoring it there. You can guarantee that. Absolutely. You get Zegris and Bedard or Ziegres and John Totorella.

If you remember, when Zegris and Sonny Milano teamed up for that goal, Torch was an ESPN analyst. He originally said that's not good for the game. Now, in Torch's defense, or to his credit, he walked it back later on. He since said, hey, look, it's good. The creativity's good. I like the kid, blah, blah, blah.

But like, he did originally say it's not good for the game. What would be more interesting from a, let's fire up that microwaveable popcorn again and sit back? Zegroos with Bedard or Zegreus with. torts. It's Zegras with torts because it has to be that. Like Zegras or Pradarad would be cool because you have two young players come together

and you're hyping them up. If you're ESPN, you probably love that in a market like Chicago, two young players, two recognizable young players in the same market. Zegras and Torts, we're into the generational gap between those two people. Zegris is the cool young guy with the flow.

He's been on the cover of an NHL video game already. He's doing cool tricks in games. Did you imagine Trevor Zegris trying to do some lacrosse style goal in a game and it doesn't work and John Tortorella talks about it postgame.

What would John Tortorella said? He wouldn't answer the question. He wouldn't have. Oh my God. It would be television. It would be prime television and fodder for all of us. But hey, maybe it works out. Maybe John Tortorella

is like, you know, he befriends the kid and like he's like, man, he's a good player. He's taught me so many things. What if like, because like, what, he's 20. He's in his young 20s. So that would make what Gen Z, I guess? Like, what if, like, Trevor Zegress is trying to put John Tortorella on to words like Riz and stuff?

That would, that's what would make me laugh. I would love to know the relationship between those two to a point where. Imagine just a coach like John Tornorella be learning Gen Z words like Riz. Yeah, the kids got Riz. Kids got Riz. If he said Riz in a press conference. that would be the press conference of the year. Like John Tortoella tried to explain what Riz is.

Oh, man. That would be like Bob Cole. Remember back of the day, Snoop Dog at the Stanley Cup final did an interview with Scott Oak. Oh, my God. And Scott Oak gives it to Snoop. And Snoop does what Snoop does. And he throws it back to Bob Cole. Of course he did.

And Bob, it's a great little video that people should watch that they get the chance. That would be like towards saying, towards San Riz, in my opinion. The Vancouver Connects are kind of like a little bit, I would say Julian Vancouver is like Philadelphia in that. I don't think people thought they are where they are in the standings. And so Patrick Alvin, general manager of the Vancouver Connect, spoke to the media this week.

In fact, I was thinking after reading his comments, Alvin tells reporters, I think we owe it to the players. This is about him being aggressive at the deadline. I think we owe it to the players. we know that they're capable of playing at this high of a level. They continue to do that. It's on me to support them,

give them opportunities to be successful. I was looking at that. I'm like, that guy should remove the V from his last name because then he would be Patrick All In. That's it. That's what he sounds like, great.

He sounds like a general manager who is all in. Do I still have to do this after that pun? Do I still have to do this show? Come on, I got Riz. I'm sorry, I'm okay. You got it. You got it. If this is just going to turn to the Gen Z show,

Joe, you got it. Okay. Don't you feel like in, like of all, there's going to be a lot of trade rumors in the next seven weeks. That's just the nature of the trade deadline. It's already started. Don't you feel like given where they are in the standings, given the passion of that fan base.

Please screen. Sorry, for those watching that. I had rid. Baby. Producer Jeff, can you please screen grab this? I need this. I need this screen grab. Don't make me,

I don't have the capability. I can do it myself, but like please save this. Sorry to catch you off. Ian Mendez has Riz. I got Riz, maybe. The street.

I repeat, Ian Mendes has Riz. Like, go ahead. Sorry. I broke your concentration. But don't you feel like most of the trade rumors are going to involve the Canucks?

Like when you hear if Gensel's in play, it's going to be the Canucks. If like, if, if, in play, it's going to be the Kinnock. Like they are going to be the team just based on the media

interest in that market, the fan base, where they're at. Like everyone's going to get linked to Vancouver. You know how volatile fans are? They might just do that on their own. Yeah. Like, I'm dead serious on that. If they feel they need a score, that market has enough oxygen

between the fans, between the media that covers the team. Thomas Trance on his own. Probably firing up a trade board of his own right now. 3,000 words in all talking about how guys like Jake Gensel or some other defensemen available on the market should be made available for the Vancouver Canucks. And I don't blame them. This is an opportunity.

They have exceeded expectations. They're one of the best teams in the country. They're one of the best teams in the league. This might be their chance to really knock it out the park, especially knowing that they have to hand out money to Elias Patterson at the end of the year. Absolutely. There's going to be a lot of teams connected, a lot of players connected to the Vancouver Conucks.

It's all in what they can afford. It's all in what they're willing to give up. just off the top of my head. Like, yeah, I think a secondary score would probably help. I wonder if they still need help on the defense score. I know they got Nikita Zadora of earlier this year, but maybe they feel that they could add another piece there, but maybe it's more of the secondary scoring that could benefit them.

Well, I'll tell you what. Well, why don't we bring in our man, Sean McIndoo? Down Goes Brown, Senior hockey writer with the athletic. And, you know, earlier this week, Sean, we were talking about, and I know you waited on this on when I tweeted out that the Dallas Cowboys are the Toronto Maple Leafs and the Toronto Maple Leafs are the Dallas Cowboys.

And we were having some fun with this as much as we could on Monday saying if you could partner up more NFL teams or more sports franchises with NHL teams, would there actually be any other, like I guess the Yankees and the HABs maybe back in the day, maybe not so much now,

but like are there any more in the buddy system that were like, you guys are, you guys are, spirit animals of each other, other than Toronto and Dallas. Yeah, I mean, Toronto and Dallas is a good one. Toronto and the Cubs, beliefs in the Cubs was the one up until 2016.

That was your best bet. Boy, I don't know. I mean, who's like the, who's the Detroit Lions of the NHL? Would it be a lot of the Sabres? I think it might be the Buffalo Sabres. Sabres, yeah. I mean, you could see, right, like that the Sabres would be the team that everyone, or I guess the other one I might throw out there, it doesn't completely fit,

but the Winnipeg Jets. And the reason I say that is, I feel like as an NFL fan, I feel like everyone's on board with the Lions right now. You know, and, and like it's, it's if you're, if they're not playing your team, yeah, of course you're on board. You're rooting for them. And I've always felt like Winnipeg was certainly the only team in Canada that that would be true for.

We always do this who's Canada's team debate and it's always, it always feels so dumb because there never is one. Nobody's cheering for the flames or the senators, certainly not the Leafs or the Habs. But I always felt like Winnipeg could be that one team. And they're obviously a lot closer than Buffalo right now to being the team that can maybe get to that place where

Detroit is. But yeah, boy, there's a few out there. Buffalo might be more Cleveland Browns right now. I hate to say it, but they might be closer to that level. And there's probably some Sabres fans who wish they were the Cleveland Browns right now. At least they made the playoff.

at least they playoffs. That's funny. Cleveland Browns. I'm sorry. I get it. The Cleveland Browns are a playoff team now. I still think of the Cleveland Browns as the Cleveland Browns.

They're never going to be more than. They're just the Browns. I expected to fail. Kind of like I expect the Cowboys to fail. I'll tell you, Buffalo, and they missed by one point of making the playoffs last year, Craig Anderson was Joe Flacco.

Yes. Yes. Right? Yeah. The 40-something guy. Sean, the Maple Leafs and the Oilers played on Tuesday night, a highly anticipated game. Toronto got out to the 2-0 lead.

We all know how that ended up happening. I go, man, I turned the game off. I've got a PBR. I'm going to watch the finale. So no spoilers. Don't tell me how it ended. Julian and I had a debate and I said, I'm going to use the old CNN election date,

or, you know, the election taglet. I'm calling it on January 17th, the Toronto Maple Leafs are no longer a Stanley Cup contest. I'm willing to concede that this could change in two months. But as of today, the 17th of January, given everything we know, the Toronto Maple Leafs are not a Stanley Cup contender, agree or disagree? I'm sorry, what's the point of going on that tangent and being like, oh, I'm going to stand on business when you can be like, oh, this could change in two months. What is the point change?

That's why I said what I said. Like, what's the point of me saying like, man, this seems going to suck. And then they find a way to go on a run. That's exactly why I said what I said for you to just be like, oh, man, you know, this could change in two months. Like, what? Come on. Anyway, sorry. I realize what you're off here.

But that's just like, come on. I hear what you're saying. So two things to say on this. Number one, Dom had his piece that you guys, I'm sure, saw where he went down like all of the contender. And he talked about how there's more contenders this year, it feels like, than most years. Most years, there's by this point, there's five or six teams. You figure, okay, I, you know, those. Those are the five or six teams I'm banking on and any other team kind of would the goalie gets hot or whatever.

You know, maybe it can happen. But it feels like there's, and 12, 14 teams. Boy, the Leafs are on that list, but they, especially the way they've looked the last couple weeks. They very well maybe towards the bottom of it. Now, I'll say this. Ian, you probably saw like my eyes start to light up when you were talking because I thought you were going to go one further. I thought you were calling it that the Maple Leafs are not a playoff team. No, I'm not ready to say that.

That's very possible too. That's the next level of panic in Toronto. We're about a week away from that. Detroit has basically caught them. Tampa's right there. There's some games in hand, but they are not a sure thing to even make the playoffs. And that's where I thought you were going. And I was going to say, man, this is really, this is going to be something else because it could happen.

man, I wrote at the beginning of the year. Some people, you know, I got some pushback on this. And I said, I said I didn't feel like the Leafs were a sure thing to make the playoffs. Not because I thought, you know, I saw a whole bunch of flaws or, you know, not because I didn't think they were one of the 16 best teams, but because I said the way things are and the way that market is, if it goes bad in Toronto, it could go really bad. And for the first few months, I was wrong on that.

The first few months, even when the Leaps weren't great, you know, they were they were plugging along, getting all the overtime points and all of this stuff. So, you know, you said, well, at least they're safe to make the playoffs. And now it's starting to look like a little bit dicey. The goal tending, obviously, is the big story and, you know, the cap space to do anything. We've been waiting on a blue line move. And you've got Brad for Living, who I'm assuming is aware of what's happening and maybe he has the potential to do something at some point or maybe not. Maybe he just wants to stay the course. But boy, it's, you know, it feels a little early to be talking any panic with the Leafs.

And you're right. And we could, I mean, you talk about two months down the road. They could run off three wins in a row. And we're all sitting there going, you know what? Well, classic Toronto, right? We all overreacted and they're fine. But another bad week, two weeks at the most. We're into full-fledged panic mode.

I don't think it's contender panic mode. I really do think it's a playoff team. panic mode. Okay, then I want to know your opinion on what Mitch Marner said after the Oilers game last night. I'll read the quote, the big quote that's been floating around on cyberspace and everyone's been losing their minds over. We know we're a great hockey team. We show it every night. These last four games that we've had leads, we've played some awesome hockey, some great hockey. A lot of people, he also mentions that his team's not frustrated. Of course, he's pissed off, but his team's not frustrated. And it seems like a lot of fans in that

fan base, they're frustrated, they're upset, and I guess they want their team to reflect that too. How do you see it? How do you analyze that? Yeah, look, I, I agree with some of the people that I saw reacting to that quote saying, look, what do you want him to say? It's Toronto. He's had the media training. Like, yeah, he's going to come out and say, hey, we're, we still think we're a great team. We're, you know, we're staying the course. You know, obviously he comes out there and says, man, three blown leads in a row, we stink, then that's the headline. And everybody's screaming about that. So I, this to me feels like a guy who is trying to say the right thing, knowing that if he,

if he gets off course a little bit, everybody runs with it. Now, that haven't been said, there is also a part of me that wants to pull him aside and be like, dude, read the room right now. Yes, have your confidence, have, you know, express that you see. You all still believe in each other and all of this stuff. But don't tell us how you're playing awesome great hockey. Don't tell us how everything's fine. You would love to see, and this has been an issue with this team for a few years now,

you'd love to see just a little bit more frustration sometimes. I mean, this team has for years now felt like they were just a little bit too easy on themselves, a little bit too willing to pat themselves on the back and say it's all fine, it's good. And again, I understand that it is such a fine line. Because as soon as somebody gets a little bit overboard on the criticism, then we're breaking into national programming in Canada. Oh, is the least dressing room divided? Does Mitch Marner want out? Does he not believe in this anymore?

And all of this nonsense. I get that. But boy, you'd like to see somebody break a stick every now and then on this team or come out and be. And just say it's not good enough. Even if you think the team is good, even if we can get back to that level, just say right now it's not good enough. and we're a little bit ticked off. I get where Martin's going from. I'm not going to rip them over this.

But I also get where the fans are coming from. And like I said, it's a little bit of read the room. And this is not what this fan base wants to hear it right now. We spent some time debating whether the Leafs are a Stanley Cup contender, a playoff contender. Let's go to the other end of the pendulum and look at the fan bases, Sean, that are firing up tankathon on a regular basis. And I thought the days of me having.

Tankathon bookmarked as a beat reporter were done. Last year I was like, goodbye Tankathon. It's been fun. Well, it's back. And a big way. How are the five years of unparalleled success going? Are we in year four, I think? That was supposed to be from 2021 to 2025.

Year three. I would. Still two years to go. There's still time. You're only halfway through. This has been very much paralleled. This is, um,

your piece, uh, Sean, Wednesday in the athletic looks at The teams that have the best chance of winning that draft lottery come April or May, whenever the draft itself. And the best odds of getting a lot worse is I guess what I'm looking at. Because obviously, you know, we can all look at the standing and go, hey, San Jose stinks.

You know, they're probably going to have the best odds. But who is it that? And I always frame it this way. In a hypothetical alternate universe where teams in the NHL tanked, because Gary Betman tells us it doesn't happen. Gary Betman has been very clear this is something the media makes up. Nobody tanks in the NHL. But if they did, just for fun, if that was a valid strategy,

which teams would be best positioned to do it over the second half now that there's about, by my count, 11 teams. It should be at least considering it. That's what I think. It's just a fun hypothetical in a world where Gary Betman couldn't look us all in the eye and tell us that tanking obviously is a made-up. creation by the mean nasty media that doesn't happen in real life. Sorry, Sean,

down goes around all this makes me laugh. I also wanted to ask about another column you wrote your weekend rankings. You added a bonus five of the playoff bubble worry index. The Islanders, the capitals are on that list. Can you take us through that list of teams that are on the bubble for the playoffs that really should be worried about their place? Yeah.

And it's, I mean, worried about their place in the playoffs and also, you know, just how things are going. Because it's an interesting mix. Right now we've got, you know, obviously there's, there's a lot of teams that are doing great, particularly Western Canada. You've got that time of year where the teams that are doing bad, it starts to maybe change from being a bad thing to a good thing where you say, okay, you know what, let's go chase those lottery odds. And then you got the bubble teams and some of them not looking very good, you know, to the extent that you take a team like Vegas. that I had ranked as my Stanley Cup favorite for a big chunk of the year, not necessarily in danger of missing the playoffs right now, but not looking at all like a contender.

Injuries are part of that, but have not had that record the last a little while to the extent that the Vancouver Canucks have kind of blown past them now and it looked like they're going to take that division. The L.A. Kings being another team that you just look at and say, I know, what is, what is happening with this team, a team that I had in my top five quite a bit. They're, they're starting to fall apart. Minnesota, you know, a team that maybe you don't even consider a bubble team.

That's the thing. Some of these teams have been so bad lately that you don't even necessarily say, you know, are they even a bubble team? But Bill Garant says they still are. He says he's not waving the white flag. So, boy, you look down the list and there's just some teams that are not headed in the right direction. and it's halfway through the season. It happens every year that there's some teams we look back and say, boy, if the playoffs started in January,

this team would have been in trouble, but they don't. The playoffs are still three months away in January. You got lots of time to figure it out. And you do right up until you find yourself starting to miss that playoff spot. And boy, I wrote that a few days ago. I didn't have the least in the five. Probably would have them there now.

It's a list. It's tougher to find five. It's tougher to narrow it down to five than it is maybe fine in the five. legitimate, you feel really great about them, Stanley Cup contenders right now. You know what, guys, I realized a little omission here as we were talking about a few minutes ago about NFL teams and their NHL equivalents and vice versa.

We got an email into the athletic hockey show from Emily, who's a listener. And I'm going to float these out to you guys. You tell me if Emily is on the button on a couple of these. Obviously Dallas and Toronto at the top of the list. how about this one? This isn't bad. This is just in the here and then now.

Emily says this year's Green Bay Packers are the 2020, 2022, Florida Panthers took down one of the top dogs in the league. Now they're facing another juggernaut in the 49ers. Maybe this goes the same way. So Green Bay this year are the Panthers of last year. That's not bad. I mean, the traditionalists on both sides would probably be tearing their hair out over that.

but it's not bad, right? And Florida, a team that nearly missed the playoffs, obviously Green Bay, I mean, right up until the final weekend, looked like they were in a lot of trouble and get hot at the right time. Jordan Love, maybe got the Matthew Kachuk started becoming, we're seeing a superstar emerge at the right time. Who knows? We'll see.

We'll see. They need to get a couple more wins to get to the same level the Panthers got to. But, yeah, that's not. There's like a very loose comparison of, you know, Florida had a big trade in the off season. They let go of their of one of their better, better players in Jonathan Hubbard. They're doing this after they finally let Aaron Rogers go. It's a very loose comparison. It doesn't work that well.

But maybe you could make that work. I'm not sure. And Aaron Rogers this year was about as productive as Jonathan Huberto has been in Calgary the last two years. I mean, if you want to go that far, I understand why you make that comparison. Yeah. Well, speaking of Aaron Rogers, Emily also says, now hear me out on this one, guys, the Chicago Blackhawks are the New York Jets. Hear me out. Here's what. They both had a big acquisition in the offseason, grounding that person, King of the City, obviously in Carter Boudard and Aaron Rogers. And now, even though that they hitched their future of the

franchisor on one player, the player got injured during the season. Now, one key difference says Emily but Dard has a long career ahead of him Rogers lucky to be back on the field both guys were on the Pat McAfee show at some point there you go yeah

that one doesn't work as well for me because I mean as much as Aaron Rogers might be the face of the jets you look at the jets and you think futility so that's another team that to me has to be paired up with a sabers or you know a team like that

The Chicago Blackhawks are the New England Patriots, right? They're the team that was racking up championships relatively recently, have fallen on hard times and now are, you know, the new leadership, old leadership being all swept out, you know, the greatest coach of the modern era off to the sidelines, and Patriots don't have their Connor Bedard yet, but might by the end of this draft. So I'll stick to that one.

I'll go Hawks, Patriots, also teams that if you're not a fan, you kind of went from feeling sorry for to being completely sick of over the last decade or two. And you're kind of enjoying watching them struggle right now. Yeah. That's actually a much closer comparison than I would have thought of because you're right. Those fans would be sick of them for stuff on the ice, on the field, and off. Yeah, yeah, you're right. Some off ice problems as well.

And, you know, all over TV, all over the front and center, didn't really have a Tom Brady in Chicago, but you know, Patrick Kane and that not too far and got to watch the face of the franchise go and continue his career on some other team, which you never would have thought would have been possible even a few years ago. So I like that one. I'm going to hang my hat on that. Okay. One more from Emily.

The Tampa Bay Buccaneers are the New York Islanders because when it comes to the playoffs, they're here for a good time, not a long time. You know what? Not bad. Again, you got the recent championship in Tampa, but that's not bad. I'm trying to think now who's the Lou Lamarillo of the NFL, though, and we've already used Jerry Jones. Is Belichick kind of the Lou Lamarillo in a way?

Might be. It's his way or the highway, I guess. We also forget, too, the Islanders are a couple of years removed from conference final appearances or the NHL semi-final, as it was dubbed in 2021. Like this was a team that was very close to being at a Stanley Cup final, even though they were not expected to go as far as they did. You know who else the Islanders give me a vibe of? And let me bounce this off you because a team that's won a lot of championships and all of that, the Steelers. In the sense that it feels like the last couple of years, we're all going like, all right, we're done with these guys as playoff teams.

It's time for the new, you know, let's get some new teams in there, everything. And then you get to the playoffs and it's like, are you guys? still here? Are you guys still 9 and 8 like the Steelers always are? Are you still a 95 point team like the Islanders? And then you're kind of going, yeah, I guess we sort of forgot about them. And yet then you're looking at the playoffs going, this isn't necessarily a team we want to run into. So, you know, Islander fans maybe, I don't know if they're going to take that as a compliment because the Steelers made the playoffs or not be too happy because they didn't last too long once they got there. But yeah, I mean, you know, they got the history. They had the, you know, the dynasties.

I'll go maybe Islanders and and Steelers. Yeah, I like it. Okay. I can dig it. That works. Old school stuff. All right, Emily, we appreciate the email. Sean, as always, great to have you on the Wednesday edition of the pod.

The one upside of the Dallas Cowboys losing in the first round is we don't have to make a Cowboys 49ers playoff bet. It's sad. It is, it's disappointing. But I'm telling you, if the 49ers make the Super Bowl, I'm coming to you looking for a, looking for a Super Bowl. bet. So you got a long off season ahead of you to get to rest it up and think of something. But I mean, if and when. Oh, sorry. Isn't in, uh, is the Super Bowl in Vegas this year?

No, no, no. Vegas is here. I met between you guys who's going to the Super Bowl party. Oh, it's usually, Sean. Yeah, Ian, Ian comes over every, uh, every year. So every year since, uh, Drew Bledsoe led the Patriots. Patriots Packers, I think. Against the Packers.

The Desmond Howard Super Bowl. we've watched virtually everyone together since. Yeah. Thank you guys. Should be good, man. I'm looking forward to it. 49ers. I mean,

they got the Packers this week. How hard can that be? If you're a real contender, right, I mean, you can hand the Packers at home for sure. Who could ever screw that one up? Let's circle back on this next week.

I'll tell you who could screw that up. The Toronto Maple Leafs of the NFL. That's who. Yeah. All right. We'll leave it there. All right. Sean,

thanks for this. Thanks, there he goes. Sean Mcadood. Down goes, as, as always. It was great to have him on the pot.

He's a big NFL guy. That was fun to try and marry those teams up. You know, something that I know you want. I think you put this out on Twitter, Julian, on Tuesday, is what the L.A. Clippers are doing for home games. And I think this is an interesting idea. And I'm going to let you explain this to the listeners because they're trying to create.

an atmosphere at home games for the clippers. And I'm wondering, A, do you like to explain the idea, but B, can it work in hockey? So the L.A. Clippers are starting, essentially, they're equivalent of a supporter section. They're calling it the wall. They're taking off, they're closing off a section, which has like, what, like 51 rows.

And it's really just for fans. They're not supposed to be cheering for the other team. They can't wear opposing gears. So, like, these are rules. These are hard rules if you sit in the wall. Yeah. And if you're reselling tickets, I think they can only be resold to other Clippers fans. Essentially, yeah, it's their equivalent of a supporter section, which if you're not familiar with soccer, you're probably looking at this.

And you're thinking, oh, okay, maybe this is like, well, this is one of those student sections in college sports. But in soccer, like, this is very much a thing. Even if, even if you're following an MLS team, every one of those teams has some kind of supporter section. where I think maybe the tickets are a little bit cheaper than what you normally get for regular pricing, and you're just among fans. And basically the entire time, you're jumping up, you're celebrating, you're making all these chance, like, it's a fun time. And it's funny that hockey obviously has this place in Canadian sports that is so above all these other sports for good and for bad.

And I just find the fan culture for hockey games, in particular in certain markets, when you compare it to watching a soccer game out in Europe, or even in North America sometimes, or even a European hockey game. I don't know if you've seen like, either games going on in Great Britain or Sweden, the way fans get hyped and the way they get energized

and the way they chant for their players and the way they go off, like it's such a different experience. There are times when you go to NHL games, and yeah, maybe it has to do a lot with the ticket prices and the type of people who go in there, but also the quality of,

of the team, but it feels like a library. And I thought it would just be cool. I was trying to make the point on Twitter that if fan culture can change in North American, with North American sports, especially with hockey, then we'd be able to see more stuff like what the LA Clippers are doing. I've always thought about this, and I don't know if I've ever said this on a podcast, if I had billions of dollars and I wanted to pay that expansion fee to Gary Bettman and start a new NHL team.

And I have my board of directors, I've got my front office staff. The first thing I would do is I would take them to some Premier League game or some soccer game or even a hockey game out in like Sweden or some European market. And I just want to go to a game where the fans are lit and they're energetic. They're up there. And I would look at my staff and be like,

this is what I want my games to feel like. And I think if and and I think we need something like that for this game in order to to change the vibe at these games. And the quality of the, the quality of the games, the scoring, the players, you know, we talk about how they need more personality. But I think it's as good as we've seen. We just need, we just need that other side to to kind of match that, that energy. But also, yeah, I think some ticket prices are going to have to change in order for that to work. And I could also respect the fact that some people would want to. sure that if there is some kind of section, there needs to be some kind of safety provisions,

right? Like I saw someone in my mentions trying to make the analogy with college student sections where a lot of bad stuff does happen in those areas. And if you are a supporter, if you're in a supporter section, there needs to be no tolerance rules for any type of assault or violence or anything like that. We don't want, you wouldn't want hooliganism as we sometimes see elsewhere. But I think if you find a way to change up the culture for fans at hockey games, it makes the sport better. And I think this is just another example of another league, another sport, another league doing something different.

And maybe the NHL should look at it. Do you remember the Tampa Bay Lightning at Amelie Arena had a section in which fans were not allowed, but it was like a premium section, like almost like a luxury suite, but an area of the arena where you were not allowed to wear any. anything other than Tampa Bay gear. And it's, I think it was the playoff series against the Panthers a couple years ago, the year that the Panthers won the President's trophy and then Tampa bounced them. Right. That there was a video.

Remember this? There's a Panthers fan who went to the game, tried to sit in that section wearing a panthers jersey, and then security descended upon this guy in his son and said, you better get out of here, take off the Panthers gear. and they threatened that they would phone the police. And it turned in. That's crazy. So it turned into a whole thing.

And if memory serves me, Julian, the lightning rescinded the policy and said, you know what? It's an outdated policy. You know, when we first came into the league, our fan base has grown. We don't need this policy anymore. And I wonder with the clippers or anybody else, will somebody try to sit there and say, hey man, this is America. You can't tell me what to do.

And it's going to turn into a litigious nightmare or something dumb like that. But I love the idea of it. I think it's great. I don't love the idea of it too, but now you've just put it in my head the idea that a bunch of Lakers fans would buy that section. And all of a sudden you're watching a Clippers Lakers game. And then bam,

you just see just a mix of those two. I don't know. Like in theory, like it should work. but you're right. You do open yourself up to having people who have nothing to do with the team in those segments. Yeah.

Anyway, we would love to hear from you, the athletic hockey show at gmail.com. If your NHL team was starting a fan section, would you love it? Maybe give us the nickname of the fan section. They're calling it the wall with the clippers. What would it be for your favorite team? We'd love to hear from you, the athletic hockey show at gmail.com. As we wrap this up, we want to tip our hat to Cody Hodgson. What a great story this is, the former first round pick of the Vancouver Connects.

At 34, Julian is saying, I'm going to give it one more shot. He is signed a PTO with the Milwaukee Admirals. What a great story. As Cody Hodgson, who just was beset by injuries in his 20s, never quite got to the level that I think he wanted to get to. But says, you know what? I'm going to go out on my own terms. I love it. He's going to give it.

Who knows where it ends up, but he's in Milwaukee. I hope it works out for him, man. Seeing his name in the news, I had to do a little bit of a double take and go back to the times when he was playing for Team Canada, the world juniors. Like that's where the name really blew up in this country in Canada, right? Cody Hodgson, and he bounces around in Vancouver and Buffalo.

And you're right, the injuries kind of holds him back. But for him to end up back trying to play pro hockey at sub-level, he's, what, like 34 years old? Like, I think that could be a cool story. I hope he sticks on the Milwaukee Admirals, and he's able to play at some high enough level where he can at least hang out in the HL for like a year or two or however long he wants to.

I'm all for that too. I also agree it's a really good story. Yeah. So we're cheering for him. We'd love to see him back in the NHL, even just for a game. But good for Cody Hudson for signing that PTO. All right.

That is all the time we have for the Wednesday edition of the Athletic Hockey Show Thursday. So it comes your way. with Max Bolton, Sean Gentile, Haley, Haley, Salvean. I was actually able to grab a coffee. Excuse me, Julian. Grab a coffee with Haley Salvean in Ottawa. So she's in town covering the PWHL.

So it was great to connect with Haley. And she will have the Thursday show with Gentilean Bolton, three-headed monster. Yeah, look at that, man. Like, what a good crop of got. What a good crop of people covering that job. Yeah, absolutely. It's always a great show.

It is. The Thursday show, Haley Salvia, Max Boltman, Sean Gentile. They will be on deck on Thursday. Thanks for listening to Julian and I this week and the Wednesday edition of The Athletic Hockey Show. Leave us a five-star rating and review. You know the two of us. We'd certainly appreciate that and you follow us on YouTube. YouTube.com slash at the Athletic Hockey Show.

Right now you get a one-year subscription to The Athletic for $2 a month when you visit atlantic.com slash hockey show.