The Athletic Hockey Show - Olympic roster breakdowns: should Jason Robertson be on Team USA?

Episode Date: January 5, 2026

After months of speculation and predictions, we officially have Olympic rosters for the US, Canada, Sweden, and Finland. Today, the guys break down those lineups and discuss the biggest snubs, the potential reserves, and the medal favorites almost exactly one month from the start of the games. Plus, five NHL predictions for 2026 and thoughts on how to recapture some Winter Classic magic.Hosts: Max Bultman and Mark LazerusWith: Jesse GrangerExecutive Producer: Chris FlanneryProducer: Chris FlanneryWatch full episodes on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@theathletichockeyshowJoin our Discord Server: https://discord.gg/VTm9VjkFSubscribe to The Athletic: https://theathletic.com/hockeyshow Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the Athletic Hockey Show. Hey, everybody, Max Boltman here alongside Mark Lazarus and Jesse Granger for another episode of the Athletic Hockey Show. And guys, we finally got the Olympic rosters. We have projected them, debated them for months on end. They are here. Mark Lazarus, what's your biggest surprise now that we have all the Olympic rosters? You know, surprise, I don't think surprises the words. I think we all knew where Bill Garon was going with this.

But the Jason Robertson, you know, leaving Jason Robertson office, this team is one of the dumbest most, you know, cut off my nose despite my face things I've ever seen. Look, Bill Garron doesn't like Jason Robertson. I think that's pretty clear. Doesn't think very highly of him as a player. But Bill Garron's wrong. Jason Robertson is a terrific player. He's a better defensive player than he gets credit for. But never mind that. He scores. What do the United States not do enough of it for nations? They didn't score enough goals. And Jason Robertson is second among Americans in goals. He's ninth in assists. He's first in points. He's second in power play goals. He's first in power play points.

What has J.T. Miller done to deserve that spot over him? What has Vincent Trocheck done to deserve that spot over? I hope. I like Jason Robertson a lot, having dealt with him over the years. I hope he goes and scores a hat trick every single time he plays the Minnesota wild for the rest of his life. And I hope he points to the press box every single time because this makes absolutely no sense. That's personal. You are very defensive on this one. I'm not a jingoistic guy. I'm not really a guy who usually got to have America win. I'm not one of those guys.

I kind of like it when a Slovakia or a Czechia wins. What's happening in a world juniors is great. I want to see those countries win. But this is like, it's just a slap in the face to American hockey fans to not put one of your very best players on this team because of, I don't know, reasons. He's had an amazing season. There's no doubt. He's a great goal score. But when you talk about like the four nations last year, the U.S. didn't have enough goals, it's not that the U.S. didn't have enough skill players.

I mean, it's not like the U.S. roster was untalented. It's that the hockey at those events is conducive to very, very low scoring games. And so if I'm, if I haven't talked to Bill Guerrin, right, if I'm handicapping why that decision went that way. And I can see an argument for it. In fact, I probably would have leaned a similar direction in this particular case. I think you can make an argument for Jason Robertson on this roster for sure, but it's not over those checkers. It's not over Miller and Trocheck to me. I think it's over Clayton Keller. It's over Tage Thompson. Maybe you can try to make that case over your boy, Jack Hughes. But I don't think you want to do that. That's the role that you're going to put a Jason Robertson. And once you have Kyle Connor, Jack Hughes,

Tage Thompson, I think slightly different down the lineup as a center. That's where I think you see Jason Robertson get boxed. I don't really think he is head-to-head against Trojic Miller. Vincent Trochec had no points in four nations. Brock Nelson had no points in four nations. J.T. Miller had no points in four nations. This loyalty to a four-nations roster that lost to Jordan Binnington, who right now is one of the worst goalies on the planet,

is just mind-boggling. Is points the only way you want to judge these guys? They didn't win. They did not win. There's this mirror, and I keep hearing it from fans about this miracle, you know, we don't want the best players, we want the right players. Look, that happened one time in 1980, 45 years ago, two weeks before I was born, was the last time that method actually worked for the United States.

In the past, like, century, one time they've won. It took an actual miracle. They named the movie miracle. That's how unlikely that championship was. Put your best players on the ice and let them go win. Well, first of all, that 40-year span you're talking about includes about three, tournaments where the best players have been eligible. So I don't know that that's as as as as as the four decades talk there. But go ahead, Jesse. Yeah, I mean, I totally agree with Mark that the

idea that the U.S. has to put together this team that isn't their best players, that is like a specific type of player, is ridiculous. And I think that Bill Garon and his staff believe it more than anything they've ever believed in their lives. Because why on earth would you do this? Like, they know leaving Jason Robertson off this team is going to cause anger amongst American hockey fans. Like, I don't, there are maybe for, for every one person that's glad Jason Robertson isn't on the team, there are a hundred American hockey fans that want Bill Garron fired if they lose this, if they don't win the gold. He is setting himself up to not have this job anymore if America doesn't win the gold medal. So therefore, to me, that tells me that he

knowingly did this fully aware that it was going to be against the majority opinion, which tells me that he believes the only way he can beat Canada is this way. Maybe he's right. Bill Garron knows a lot about hockey. He's doing a fantastic job in Minnesota. He might be right. I disagree with him just like Mark does. But I will say, he must believe in this with everything he's got, because it would have been very easy to just put Jason Robertson on the roster, not have these controversial decisions. And then if he loses to Canada, you say, well, what am I supposed to do? We were overmatched. I put the top scoring guys. I put the guys everyone wanted on the roster. We were overmatched. They beat us. And he probably keeps this job. The way he's doing this is either he's

going to be the hero, was right and we were all wrong, or he's not the GM of the American team anymore after this is the way I see it. What I'll say to that is good. Because if Bill Guerin was managing Team USA's Olympic team, trying to just keep his job for the next Olympic team and doing the things that no one is going to get mad at him for if they lose. That's a bad general manager. I want the general manager who was going to win the tournament. And I think that's what he did. The snub of all snubs, Jason Robertson,

and again, I think very highly of this player. He's an excellent player. But for all the oxygen it's got of what an egregious error it is, to leave him home for J.T. Miller. Jason Robertson, on a better team than the New York Rangers this year, has an expected goal share of 53.3%. The woeful, tragic inclusion of J.T. Miller is 53.29, lads. This is not this, like, drastic snub here.

I get he puts the puck in that. He's going to play seven minutes a night if he's there. He doesn't kill penalties. I don't believe he's ever killed a penalty. I was looking at this the other day. If he did, it was not statistically significant enough to register. I don't have a problem with this decision. And I can't believe that it's as big a problem in the overall conversation as much.

I will agree with you guys that, you know, Bill Garron, he's got some stones on him, right? He very much could have just gone the easy way and taking the guys that score the most goals. And he has, he believes. But, you know, I'd rather see Cole Calfield or, Alex de Brinkett or Jason Robertson. I want to see some guys that can put the fuck in the net. This smacks of me to the world.

Remember the World Cup in 2016, that unforgettable tournament that just changed our lives forever? Justin Abdel Cater was on the team USA because John Tortorella wanted some, he wanted some jam on the team. Do you think any of these guys are Justin Abducator? You know J.T. Miller's at 100 points in the NHL

right? That's not just an abdilcator. Yeah, no, no, but you're paying, you know what this reminds me of is the Brent Sebrough contract. Here with the Blackhawks, where they were paying for past performance and not what he was at the moment. J.T. Miller is not good this year. We are halfway through the season. That's a strong sample size. He has not been productive. He's on a losing team. He is not a positive difference maker for that team. You are paying for J.T. Miller of two years ago.

This is not the same player. I want Jason Robertson of now. I don't want J.T. Miller from because what he was two years ago. You're not paying anything. You're picking a player who's going to pay seven minutes a night of best on best hockey. And the players that you're going to be going up against Canada's fourth line is like Tom Wilson, Nick Suzuki, Brad Marshan, could be Anthony Sorrelli. The purpose of the player that you're picking for that role is not to score a goal in the slot because you're going to have the puck the whole time. You're going to be out there for seven minutes and most of your job is try to get the puck from Nick Suzuki and Tom Wilson. If I ask you, who do you trust to get the puck from Nick Suzuki and Tom Wilson? Are you taking JT

Miller? Are you taking Vincent Trocheck? Are you taking Jason Robertson? Trochec's the one that I can live with Trocheque on the team because he does fit that role. I don't feel like J.T. Miller fits that role. He just, he's, Jason Robertson's a big, strong body who has this reputation that seems to be underdog. I watch a lot of Dallas Stars hockey. I'm kind of the Stars guy for us, the athletic.

And he is a much better all-around player. Look, he's not, nobody's trying to say he's Patrice's Bertrand out there. But he's a big, sturdy body. He plays a grower forward hockey. They're all great players. That's how these goals are going to get scored. They're going to get scored in front of the net with big strong bodies whacking away at loose pucks. And that's what Jason Robertson does better than almost anybody in the league.

And leaving him off seems just unconscionable. J.T. Miller is a good hockey player. Jason Robertson's a good hockey player. Jason Robertson is, he is unquestionably a better hockey player than J.T. Miller. Unquestionable. In the NHL, that's 100% true. But in the NHL, you get to play a ton of different lines where Jason Robertson can use that to full extent. Again, like against the players. J.T. Miller didn't have any points in four nations. He has done. nothing to deserve this. I, like, I, I agree with your argument, Max, if it comes to, like, I, like, I, I, I think that Brock Nelson, that argument fits. I would rather have Brock Nelson out there in the defensive zone, playing defensive minutes, playing shutdown minutes. And he's having

a great year. I just don't think, I just don't think J.T. Miller is that player. Maybe I'm wrong. Yeah, it may or may not be, right? I know that at the last tournament, like J.T. Miller was a guy who probably underperformed, but he also was willing to play that role, right? I mean, it's, is Jason and Robertson going to go out there in seven minutes and play the kind of game. I keep saying seven minutes. Who knows? Maybe it's 12, right? But maybe it's three. Maybe it's a scratch, right? My one thing that I, that I can kind of come around on the Robertson side of this is that if someone is going to get hurt at this tournament, I think it's more likely to be the smaller skill players than it is kind of your bottom six bangers who tend to be a little more, you know, build a little more durable.

And if that happens, if there's an injury, you're going to really wish that you had, whether it's Jason Robertson, whether it's Cole Cawfield, whether it's Alex DeBrinke. I just just I'm having a hard. It's not even so much that I'm saying like they got this right with a bullet. It's that I'm saying I'm surprised that the pushback is this big for what ultimately amounts to like a 13th forward kind of piece. Well, first of all, I don't think Jason Robertson should be the 13th forward. That's where we digress here. But let me ask you this. There is some clear bitterness on Jason Robertson part right now, deservedly so understandably. He was in Chicago, the night that the team was announced and I tried to talk to him and they kept kind of pushing me off,

push me off. And eventually Robertson just, I was told he didn't want to talk. He was too, he was too upset about it, which I understand. If there's an injury between now and February 5th or whatever the cutoff date is, is Robertson Garen's first call? Or is that too acrimonious? Like, is you going to go to Alex de Brinkett or Cole Caulfield rather than swallow his pride and pick the guy he controversially didn't pick? Bill Garon, you know, again, this is a stubborn, proud guy who does things the way he wants to do.

And I wonder if he'd have the, if he'd be magnanimous enough to call Jason Robertson right now, given all the grief he's gotten for not picking him in the first place. Well, again, if he's the right GM, that's not going to be what stops you, right? If you're the right GM, you do what's best for Team USA. So, you know, but we'll see. That's a complete hypothetical. I have no way of knowing that. Again, like Jason Robertson absolutely deserves to be on the team by what he did.

But I just, I have a hard time when you're picking a team, you're looking at roles. I have a hard time getting that fired up about picking the guy who is extremely talented as well, but he's heavier. I don't think he's any faster. That's the one thing about Miller versus Robertson is that one of Robertson's big flaws, I think, is the skating. That's a huge flaw for J.T. Miller, too. So even though he's maybe a little meaner, it doesn't address that. And that'd be the hardest case I would be able to try to make is that, you know, pace would be my biggest obstacle in taking Robertson. It's still a question the other way. I just feel like overall, we are putting way too much stock in what Four Nations was. That was a ridiculously short tournament. And I think,

I think people are drawing too many conclusions, even, even Team Canada picking Jordan Bennington with the season he's having. We're putting too much stock in what happened in a very fluky short tournament last year. I don't know that it's putting stock in that because they made the same decision before that tournament. I think it's just like it's projecting what best on best hockey is like. It's tight. It's hard. It's fast. We know this. We know this from 2006. We know this from 2010, right? And 2014, Team Canada was just suffocated everybody. It was some of the some of the least visually appealing hockey I've ever seen, but it was the most effective hockey I've ever seen. And that's kind of what I'm getting at, right?

Is like, if I thought that you were going to have space to operate in the way that Jason Robertson can operate, and granted, he's got a quick release. I'm not saying he's not a good one touch shooter. I think a lot of the goals at this tournament are going to be how you describe, just finding one around the crease and banging it in. And I'm just not sold that J.T. Miller is not one of the very best options in the NHL to do that. I know that the stats this year aren't good. But at the very least, even if I'm not arguing like he had to be on this team, I can absolutely see it. And I think when we projected this on the prospect series. I think I had J.T. Miller on mine, too.

So along those lines, we've talked a lot about these Rangers who maybe are on the team and some of us don't think they belong on the team. There is a ranger that a lot of people do think belonged on the team and he's not on the team, Adam Fox. Yeah. Do you guys agree with the decision to take, whether it's Noah Hanifin or Seth Jones, whoever you want to say is that last defenseman for the U.S.? Would you have taken them over over?

It's tough because it. Because we all saw Adam Fox in that. And again, I just said that we shouldn't put too much stock into Four Nations. But that game was a little fast for him. It seemed like he was a step behind. Is Seth Jones going to be able to keep up? I don't know. He's bigger.

He's stronger. He just had a Stanley Cup run. Seth Jones belongs on the team. I probably would have put Adam Fox on there just on sheer talent and ability. I want my very, again, I want my very best players out there. I don't agree with leaving him off. But I think a case can be made based on his performance of Four Nations. He just did not look like the Adam Fox that won the Norris just a few years ago.

He's having an awesome season. I think he's done everything he can to kind of respond to that. And you want to give it. This is a short tournament, right? But I think what happened in it is what people fear what happened with Adam Fox. And again, tight, fast hockey. He's a smaller guy. He's one of the smartest, if not the smartest player in the NHL.

I don't think any of us would dispute that. But when they're coming at you that fast, it's a different kind of ballgame. And I think Seth Jones's play in the Stanley Cup, finals made him a pretty strong candidate for this too. This is a guy who I think was a big piece of of Team USA's kind of outlook four or five years ago. Reputation went in the tank a little bit over the last few. But when he showed that in the Stanley Cup playoffs, it was like, oh, right, this guy is a prime age, six foot four, highly mobile defensemen who can smother transition. Now, my question again here is, if it's an injury situation, who's more like,

who's the most likely players to get injured? You know, Charlie McAvoy got hurt at last year's tournament and you can't ever project an injury. So it's a little bit of a fool's errand. If one of Hughes or Werenski goes down, you're going to really, really wish you had Adam Fox. But if not, I think if those guys are healthy, Seth Jones, you could probably deploy in more situations. Or even Elaine Hudson. Like if you need a power play quarterback, like there's an argument that if Quinn Hughes gets hurt, you'd rather replace him with Lane Hudson than Seth Jones or, like, I watch Noah Haniffin every day here in Vegas. I was very surprised.

to see his name on the list because he didn't play much at Four Nations. I didn't think that he played very well in the time he did play. And then he's had a pretty bad season for the Golden Knights. Like they lost Alex Petrangelo. Shea Theodore has been injured. Braid McNabb has been injured. A lot has been put on Noah Hanifan's plate and it hasn't gone well. Like I look at Seth Jones.

You mentioned how well he played in the Stanley Cup finals and I totally agree. But also this year, the Panthers have had so many injuries. And Seth Jones has stepped up and played. big minutes and played them really well, whereas I've seen Noah Hannafin, he hasn't been terrible, but he hasn't elevated his game the way you hoped a player like that would in this type situation. So I was a little surprised to see Hannafin on the list. It's a good point. I'm definitely treating it like it was Jones over Fox. It could have been Hannafin over Fox. Right. Yeah, I think Jones was a no-brainer for this team. Like you said, the way he can skate and at his size and now the

big game experience he's had, I thought he was a no-brainer. But let me ask you this. Do you think that given how far these games are from North America, should there be larger taxi squads? I mean, we got two extra defensemen on each team basically and a couple of extra forwards. Should there be three or four? Should teams be able to rotate guys in and play? You see that in some like World Championship-type tournaments,

I feel like where not everybody's going to play all seven games or however many games it is. And you might like, oh, against Chequia, you know, Adam Fox is a better matchup. But against Slovakia, Noah Hannafin's a better matchup. And you give guys a chance to participate without necessarily just, you know, being, I don't know, it sounds like a little bit.

of a participation trophy, but it gives teams a little more versatility, gets more guys in the mix, and if there are injuries, you have people at hand in Italy instead of, you know, 12 hours away. I think teams would love it. The question would probably be, would players love it? Would players want to go over there and have like glorified mascots? Yeah. That they're spending two weeks on a on a cotton Milan to not play in the Olympics. But if they get to be on the Olympic team, maybe that tradeoff is worth it. That's what every number three goalie is there to do, right?

I remember, you know, that's, if any of these number three goalies play, it's something disastrous happen. So, I mean, if those guys can do it, I think one or two extra defensemen probably probably wouldn't be the end of the world. I have to say, like, that's the team USA side of this. On the Canada side of this, I am much more sympathetic to the kind of more like egregious snub takes. Like Connor Bedard, I know he's been hurt lately. I know that he's another one who it's like, it's mainly offense, but, you know, and you had a great conversation with Jeff Blashe about this last week, Les, that I want to let you get into here because I do think Connor Bedard's game has evolved. I also think he's enough of a game breaker.

It would have been very hard for me to leave him off this roster, and that's exactly what Canada did. I think Connor Bedard has, he very early got a reputation in the league as a one-way player. When he was an 18-year-old center, he was a one-way player. He got that reputation, and it's like the Jason Robertson argument. Once you have a reputation in this league, it's so difficult to shed it. These hockey men, they form an opinion on you, and they just do not change their minds. And I think Doug Armstrong probably hasn't seen enough Blackhawks games this year.

You know, he was asked if Badaar's injury played a role in this. He goes, not really, which means he didn't make the team on his own merits, which is hard to square when you watched him play all year because he is fully engaged defensively. He is digging pucks out of the corner. He is going to the body. He is a, he is not a tall man, but he is a thick, sturdy kid who can handle physicality, who gives out a little physicality, who's back checking with the same kind of reckless abandon

that he plays in the offensive zone. He's creating offense for himself now. He's not just a catch-and-shoot guy, like just firing three-pointers from long range. He can do it all. And he was third in the league in scoring when he got hurt. And he's going to be back. He's already skating. He's already shooting. It seems a little short-sighted to leave him off this team. But there's this idea that Macklin-Cellebrini is Patrice Bergeron and Connor Bedard is this one-dimensional flu. When they're kind of the same player in a lot of ways, they are both spectacular. And Baddard has this reputation because he was a bad defensive player

on two of the worst teams you ever saw the last two years. And it's going to take time for people to realize that he's more than what he used to be. Even if Team Canada didn't think that they wanted to bump like a Mitch Marner out of their top six for Bedard, which I think is fair. Mitch Marner is a very good two-way player in his own right, more proven, came up big in the Four Nations gold medal game. Same argument. Like, pace-wise, I know Brad Marchand is an amazing player.

He's actually had a fantastic season. But pace-wise, Connor Bedard or Brad Marchand, that's not even close. It's Connor Bedard at that point. Marchand has a little bit more edge, but he's still a small guy. I like there's there's a couple different spots on this team that I think you could have found room for for Bidar, Jesse. This team is just so stacked. Like the U.S. team. I find like the difference to me between the U.S. and the Canada snubs is when I say like, I mean, we can go on and on about these snubs for team Canada.

Like Sam Bennett to me is a huge snub. But also the difference is when I go to the U.S. roster, I find guys that I would want to take off. Whereas on the Canadian roster, it's like, okay, well, who do I need to remove to put those guys on? well, crap, these are the 12 best forwards in the world. Like the forward group on this team is so stacked. As an American, it sucks to say this, but they're so stacked that I have a hard time finding the right guys to take off. Like a lot of people had problems with Tom Wilson.

And they were kind of having the same conversation that we were having about the Americans, like, oh, are you bringing him for his physicality over some guys who can score? The problem with that argument is Tom Wilson has more goals than almost everyone. People are arguing should be like, they're like, well, this guy has better. our offense. I don't know. Tom Wilson scored more goals than he has this year and he's killing everyone every night. The team is so stacked. Their forward lineup is so stacked. I have a hard time pulling anyone off the roster. I can understand the argument that if you're going to have baddard on this team, he has to be in the top six. And it's really hard to crack that top six. You don't

want him in a fourth line role playing like, you know, like Max says seven minutes a night. But, man, wouldn't have been fun to see him playing with McKinnon or McDavid, how cool that would have been to see what he could have done with. I mean, he's playing with Ryan Green and Andre Burrachau in Chicago and putting up these numbers. Imagine what he could do. But the one that really gets me, honestly, it's not baddard. It's Matthew Schaefer. How do you not put, I mean, we all saw what he did against the Maple Leafs the other night. This kid is a one-man, you know, electrical storm. He is so incredible to watch. He is so game-breaking. He has clearly that big game mentality. You can tell, like, the stage doesn't phase him. He's out there on Hockey Night in Canada against the Maple Leafs,

and he's owning the game while sick. He has this Michael Jordan flu game. I want Matthew Schaefer on that team. If I'm, if I'm Team Canada, I want, that kid on my back end just pushing the play, pushing everyone forward, bringing some youthful energy and excitement. That kid, I want him every chance I can get. I want him on the ice. I'm completely with you. I think Matthew Schaefer is a game breaker. And I know he's 18. I'm sure that that was the deciding factor as it can you put an 18 year old in a moment that big? I just think everything about his season so far says yes. Like when has Matthew Schaefer not not only met the moment, but like risen to it, exceeded it. Like, did you see his overtime goal the other night?

Like this is one of the best defensemen in the NHL right now. Canada's blue line is good. I wouldn't say it's like the best blue line in the tournament. Like I don't know how you find a way to leave Matthew Schaefer off of this team. When everything he can do, six two, skates, great, has offense. Like there's not a situation I would be afraid to put him out there in. Yep. Mark nailed it in terms of like what stands out to me is just how confident he is with the puck on his stick.

Like there is no hesitation. There is no like wondering, should I try to take this game over? I'm only 18 or whatever. Like, no, it is like he feels like he belongs here and not just belongs, but it's like the best player on the ice. Most of the time he steps over the boards. And it's true, he is. I'm shocked.

And also, like we said about if like McCar were to go down, the guy you want manning your power play, is Matthew Schaefer not some of these like the sixth and seventh and eighth defensemen that they are bringing. That's more pronounced too. I mean, like you got Thomas Harley, you got Shay Theater. You got Josh Morris. All like very good power play quarterbacks, but Matthew Schaefer is a different level of dynamic than those guys. All right. I want to talk about whatever the opposite of a snub is,

a bad decision, and it's Jordan Bennington. Justified to me, Jordan Bennington, like, look, past is not prolog. Again, I keep harping on this. What happened in Four Nations doesn't matter. He was great at Four Nations. Surprised us all. He's been atrocious this year. The day he's announced to Team Canada, he immediately gives up six goals to Colorado. Yeah, Colorado is good. You know, guess who else is? Team USA, Sweden, Finland, Czechia, Slovakia, Germany. Like, I don't understand how you could possibly put Jordan Binnington between the net, between the pipes. And not only is he on this team, he probably gets first crack at this the way Team Canada is talking. Are they nuts?

Okay, here's my argument for the team Canada goalies, because I think that I'm fine with the three they're bringing, as crazy as that sounds. I'm going to not be fine with the way they deploy them. Because to me, this is how I see it. There are three clear top Canadian goalies in the world right now. And that's Logan Thompson is number one. Mackenzie Blackwood is number two and Darcy Kemper is number three. Now, I don't have a problem bringing Jordan Binnington as the third goalie.

And the reason I say that is because say it's the three guys they bring. I would have had Blackwood over Kemper, but let's just say the three that they brought Kemper and Thompson. I would give those two the first crack. Logan Thompson, you're our starting goalie. If he doesn't play well, okay, we'll play Kemper. Now, if we have had two goalies go in and both, fail enough that we're looking at the third goalie, the guy I want to bring in is Jordan Bennington in that situation, in that very specific situation of the world is collapsing on us

at the Olympics. The dude I want in the net is Jordan Bennington. However, that's not how they're going to play it. They're going to have Jordan Bennington be the starter and Logan Thompson's going have to be on the bench. And then you're going to turn to him if things go wrong. To me, that is totally wrong. Logan Thompson and or McKenzie Blackwood and or Darcy Kemper should be the starting goalie for Team Canada. And Bennington should be, pull in case of emergency, throw this dude in who has proven that under stressful circumstances, he can come up with the big game. But to go in with him being your guy is a complete joke and disrespectful to the other

goleys who are clearly better than he is. Logan Thompson, clearly a better goalie for a extended period of time. He should be the starter, but he probably won't. That is the correct and nuanced perfect take. You are correct, Jesse. And you are also correct. they won't do that at all. Not to be the status quo defender here.

I'm not actually agreeing with Jordan Bennington here. But I think the argument would be, we talked about Miracle earlier on this episode, right? And I'm not looking for the best guys. I'm looking for the right ones. There's another quote from that movie talking about Jim Craig. And I don't know if this is a real quote or if this was invented by the movie, but it's like, you ever seen him when he's at his best?

And I think that's the argument here for Jordan Bennington is that whether it's about the Four Nations specifically, we have seen Jordan Bennington in big moments step up and be unbeatable. He was outstanding in the gold medal game last year. And it's not about because the four nations are so important. It's a continuation of being a pretty good big game goalie historically. So I think Canada is probably doing this because they're like, well, we've seen it before. We don't know for sure what we're going to get from a Logan Thompson in a big moment.

But you have a good idea that Jordan Bennington has it in him. If he continues what he's done in the NHL this year, you've got to sit him down. But I think you got to give him game one just to see if he's capable of when that Maple Leaf goes on his chest, finding whatever headspace it is that switches him into robot mode. I don't know. I feel like this has to be a meritocracy, right? And he hasn't earned it. He was great.

Look, if he doesn't make those couple of saves, I think it was on Matthews during overtime of the gold medal game for four nations. We're having completely different conversations here. He was spectacular. But he has a huge body of work this season where he has been atrocious. And he does not deserve, based on something that happened a year ago, he doesn't deserve it. over Logan Thompson and Darcy Kemper and McKenzie Blackwood and a number of other goalies who are just better right now and I've earned it more. This has to be a meritocracy. And a lot of times these kind of international rosters don't feel like meritocracies.

They feel like, oh, the coach likes his guys and the GM likes his guys. And these are the guys we're going to go with. I think that's true. The format makes me worry about like if they're going in and playing Bennington and seeing if he can be the guy. The fact now, I think Canada opens up with Chequio, which is a tough opponent. But the way this sets up is for Canada to just smash a couple countries and just demolish them. And whoever the goalie in the net is, you're going to think that guy's locked in right now. Because I think I would probably look locked in playing behind that Canadian team against some of these countries.

And then when you get to the knockout stage and all of a sudden, things are real and it's a one game. What if what if Binnington isn't informed? Like he clearly hasn't been informed this year. He's not the starter on St. Louis. Like Joel Hofer has been, without a doubt, the better goalie for the last month in St. Louis. So he isn't on form. And I think that you could be tricked into thinking he is on form because the team in front of him is just dominating. And then all of a sudden when things are level and you're playing against an equally, maybe not equally if you're Canada, there aren't many equals.

But someone close to your skill level and you need the goalie. What if Bennington isn't in the form you think he is that you've been tricked into thinking because of these groups? group stage games where you just smash these cans. I mean, we'll see. I do wonder, you know, I keep going back to Sochi because that's the last time we really saw Best on Best. Four Nations was as close as we've gotten, but that wasn't an Olympics, right? So the last time we saw this was Canada under, it was Mike Babcock, and they were the most

incredible defensive team I've ever seen Canada. They just took the life out of other teams. That gold medal game was like the 1-0 or the team USA game was 1-0. And Team USA barely ever got it across the blue line. They had no chance in that game. And Carrie Price got all this, like, hero love for it. And the guy made like 11 saves a game because that team was so well. I wonder if Canada is going to be able to duplicate that.

If you can do that on NHL ice, Sochi was on the wider ice where it's easier to keep teams to the outside and really play a defensive style. Or if they're going to be a little more fun and gun given that they have Nathan McKinnon and the Connor McDavid as their top two centers. I'm really curious to see the style of play that this Olympics has. Because in the past, Olympic hockey's been kind of boring this time around. I feel like it might be a little bit more up-tempo and more four to three games and less two-to-one games. The talent gap is also shorter. There's no chance 12 years ago, Team USA would have been able to leave Jason Robertson or Adam Foxoff and have even be an argument. This is the most talented U.S. team, the most that they'll be pushed.

Granted, they went to overtime in 2010, so I guess they were pushed pretty good there. But it's the most that they've been pushed in quite sometimes. That was on NHL ice, though. That was in Vancouver. That's true. And so maybe that's another kind of point to your argument. according to our friends at BetmGM, Canada plus 135, that is still the favorite. USA not far behind it plus 190.

There's a gap after that. Sweden plus 525, Finland plus 1,000, Chequia plus 1,300. Then you get into the real long shots. I feel like Sweden deserves a little bit more respect, don't they? I agree. Like Sweden should be Canada, the U.S. and Sweden, there's not a lot of, a lot of air between those three teams. Those are three ridiculously stacked teams.

Yeah. I agree that Finland, I mean, Sweden feels closer to the U.S. and Canada than they do to Finland and Chequia. Like those, that's where the tier break is to me. I agree. Yeah. Now,

I mean, the question is probably other as many layers of game breaking depth on Sweden. They're also like, their stars are in general younger. Yeah. Some of the like more like prime McDavid,

prime McKinnon is a ridiculous one to punch that nobody can match. But like Leo Carlson, as good as he's going to be someday, like there's still an age gap there in terms of like how many times you've been in those moments. And East Sweden's number one center most likely too. I would have to think so. So, yeah.

Sweden is overmatched at forward quite a bit compared to the U.S. and Canada, but I think that they have great defenders and they've got two really good goalies, both coming from Minnesota. And obviously Markstrom's there too, but that tandem in Minnesota has been awesome. I feel like Sweden, even though they, like, if you're just stacking it up player by player, they're not nearly as good as the U.S. But I feel like because they've got good defense and good goaltending, they could be a pain in the butt for everyone who has to play them. Max, make the case. I know we're going to get too deep into the snubs with Sweden here. make the case for Simon Edvinson. How much is what he's doing is because he's playing with Moritz-Sider

and how much is he elevating more at Sider? It's both. I mean, they're both better when they're together because they're with another very, very good player. Cider's the better player right now, right? But Simon Edvinson is an elite skater. He's an ex. He's a one-man breakout.

He's got physicality. Recently, he's shown some offense. If you go look at the overtime goal, he scored against Toronto, that's one where you saw and you were like, this guy probably needs to be on the Olympic team. But he doesn't make it. And look, he's not the only snub on that blue line. Matisse Atholm didn't make this team.

That was very surprising to me. Even Hamas Lindholm, getting up there in age, but quite the track record, a guy I certainly would trust. And I guess that's true of Oliver Ekman Larson as well. But I think Simon Edvinson definitely did everything he could to put himself on that radar. He's dominant in transition, both directions, keeps the puck in well, knows when to activate. Like, he's going to be a part of the Sweden Olympic blue line in the future. I guess it was just one cycle too early for him.

Yeah, Ekman Larson is the one. that I would have replaced him with Evanston. Like, OEL's, he's a great player. He's been a great player for a long time. And I'm happy for him that he's getting this chance. But if we're going by meritocracy, he's not having a great year on a, doing it on a bad defensive team. And, yeah, I would like to see Edvinson.

I want to see the new blood as often as I can. Yeah. The one snub I had for Sweden, it's not nearly as like, it's not the same level of player that we've talked about snubs for the U.S. and Canada. But I thought Emil Heinenman has been phenomenal on Long Island. And I was surprised in like, okay, who do you take out? I don't know, Pontus Holmberg to me was a little bit surprising just because he's not putting up the numbers. Again, this is like a player who's playing a role who they're specifically looking for.

Maybe he plays that role better than Heineman. But I just thought based on the season he's had, I expected Heinemen to be on the roster. And he wasn't. Michael Backland, too, he's having, he's going to be on, you know, he might be a Selke finalist this year. And he didn't make this team. That, again, that shows how good Sweden is and how deep they are, too, that they're having similar star players left off. like really, really elite players left off. But that's the kind of guy that these, you know, these Olympic GMs tend to say,

we need guys that can kill penalties and can play on the fourth line and can check against a Connor McDavid. And Michael Backlin might be the best Swedish player for that position and he didn't even make it. Two more odds that I didn't mention, Switzerland plus 2,500, Germany plus 8,000. I think if either of those two teams had like a stud goalie, they would be a phenomenal metal dark horse because of some of the star power that both of those can boast. But I just don't see that. goalie that can steal you that metal round game or that knockout round game to get you.

Oh, Jesse, what was the name of the Lomian goalie in 2014 who almost beat Canada? Who was that? I can't remember. He had like, needed like a 70 save game in Sochi. And it was like, that's exactly what you're talking about, Max, where one goalie can completely change the course of that once you get to the medal round, can just single handedly end a team to run. I can't remember who the goalie was, though.

I will not stand for this Akira Schmidt slander, though. Akir Schmidt, amazing goalie for Switzerland. He's obviously, I mean, he's, he is a backup goalie in the NHL. He's played a lot this year for Vegas just because Aden Hill's been hurt. I'm excited to see what he does. They also, I was talking to him the other day and like Switzerland's the type of country that leans on like international experience. It wouldn't surprise me if like they've got, I'm blanking on his name, but they have a veteran goalie. He's like almost 40, but he's been playing over in the Swiss League that might be their starter who's like kind of their go-to guy for world championships.

They've got decent goaltending. It's definitely not on the level of obviously like the top. for Germany's got Philip Grubauer who, Philip Grubauer has been on a brutal run. Like we're talking about Jordan Bittington being bad this year. Grubauer's been worse than that for about four years since Seattle signed him. It's been a disaster. However, this is a bounce back year for him.

He's been much better for the crack. And if he can, like you said, they've got dry sidle. They've got Stutzel. They've got some high in time. If Grubauer can have a miracle like, like play the way he has for Seattle this year, maybe Germany's live. And you know every single one of them. of these goalies on these non-big four teams are in the back of their head to like,

I could be on a posted stamp, man. Like, all I got to do is one big game in the medal round and I am on a posted stamp and I am a hero for the rest of my life. You can't really say that if you're like a forward or a defenseman. A goalie can do it. You know, you could be the opposite of what Tommy Sallow was in Sweden and you could become a mega star for the rest of your life and never have to buy a drink again. I have a story coming out on the Czech goalies.

And it's kind of along those same lines of like you can be what like Dominic Khashik in 98 is probably the best example ever. I mean, like, obviously the Czech goalies are very good. Locustol, Karel Vemalka. They're not on Hachik's level, but there was a time when Hachik and Yager single-handedly drugged that team to a gold medal. I don't know if these Czech goalies are ready to do it, but like that's kind of the narrative is like, hey, not only has it been done, it's been done in this country and they've got the goaltending. Like, Chechia is going to be a tough out. They obviously have very good forwards too with Posternak and Natchis, but the Czech goaltending is going to be phenomenal in this tournament.

they're going to be tough out. Here's your answer from producer Chris Las. It was Krister's Gudlevskis. That sounds correct, yes. It was one of the most amazing games I've ever seen an athlete play at any level. It was, oh my God, the tension among the Canadians during that game was, it was delicious. That's what I love about the Olympics, right? Like, I grew up rooting for like Slovakia because I was a Ziki Palfi fan.

And I never rooted for Team USA or Canada. I always rooted for those smaller countries because it just feels like, like if Canada wins the gold medal, it's going to mean a lot to those guys. Like, don't get me wrong. I've seen Jonathan Tays with a gold medal around his neck, and he was on the verge of tears. But if you're like Finland, if you're the Czechs and you pull out of gold, it means so much to so many people.

Finland winning the world championships four or five years ago was like life-changing for some of those guys. So I'm always rooting for the smaller countries to pull off those upsets. Like we saw in the world juniors, I loved watching the Czech team beat Canada and what was it, the Finns that beat the United States. I love seeing that. That's the best. And both of those teams earned it.

Like those were not fluky. gaps that wins. Those were excellent performances. That check team was awesome last night. Absolutely. A lot more Olympics obviously to come over the next two months here. We're going to take quick break right there. All right. We are back. And as we get into 2026 here, guys, I wanted to make some room for us to make some predictions here. I know we mostly do that at the start of seasons, but the start of calendar years feels relevant as well to Laz. So what do you got here in 2026? What's going to happen? All right. I don't know how firmly I believe this, but I do, I don't think the abs are going to win the Stanley Cup. I think it's going to be.

like ruins a few years ago where they are not tested enough during the regular season. And then they immediately have to play like it's going to be either Dallas or Minnesota in the second round. That's a pretty quick conference final, Stanley Cup final level matchup. The three best teams in the league are all in the central division. And I just think whoever comes out of that central is not going to win the cup. Even if the abs come out of that, the Pacific's terrible. So maybe they get past that. But then someone in the East will have just rolled through and will be feeling healthier,

I'll be feeling better at Tampa or maybe an upstart team like at Ottawa or. someone like that can go and really make a nice run. I just feel like chances are the best team in the NFL is not going to win the championship. And the ads are so much better than everybody right now. Like they are like the Bruins and, you know, they are kind of like the 2013 Blackhawks who did win the Stanley Cup. But I just feel like I'd still take the field because it's really hard to win the Stanley Cup, especially in that division. I think that's actually an interesting point for like for the Oilers sake, right?

Like this is a team that we've not been excited about this year. They've started to kind of come on a little bit, but not in the way that you would like, be like, oh, yeah, here they go. Their first two rounds are going to be cakewalks potentially the way the Pacific looks like. And then you get a beat up central division champion, whether it's the abs or someone else. And maybe the freshness there is enough to tilt it for, you know, two of the best players, maybe the two, but certainly two of the best players in the world. It's actually an interesting question. Who, maybe I'll use this to kind of transition here last.

I know you have another prediction here about Nathan McKinnon. I wonder if this is the year that we start to put Nathan McKinnon on equal footing as Connor McDavid and not just a strong one B. I feel like he's there. I really do feel like he's there. He is the runaway MVP favorite at this point. McDavid is still the most talented player in the world. I don't think anyone is going to catch him in that category. I do think Nathan McCain and has been the best player in the world now

the last couple of regular seasons. We need to see another extended playoff run to really put him in that. But my prediction for him is he's going to be a plus 100 this year. He is a plus 50 halfway through the season. the modern record in the 21st century is Johnny Goddrow in 2122 is a plus 64 and McKinn is already a plus 50. There's only been three plus 100s in the history of the NHL and the most recent one was Wayne Gretzky as an even plus 100 in 84, 85. I think on that team with his ability, he could get to plus 100. He's so good.

And it's not hard to argue for the aves to win the cup, but like to me, what's different between this Aves team and the Bruins? team that was dominant is... Let me guess. It's going to be goaltending. No, it's not. That Bruins team had Swainman and Allmark. That was phenomenal. I mean, honestly, it's kind of similar in like the cohesion between the two goalies. Like, I don't think there's been a more cohesive

goalie tandem since that one until this, the lumber yard, I think, is what they're calling Blackwood and Wedgwood in Colorado. But to me, what it is, is how explosive the abs are. Like, that Bruins team was very good and they scored goals, but they didn't, they weren't quite as high octane. And like, the thing I've been saying lately about the abs, I

watch them almost every night. And it's like, this team, you always hear coaches saying, we need 60 minutes. We need 60 minutes. The abs need about five. If they play five good minutes out of 60, they beat you because they will score more goals in those five good minutes than you will in the 55 that you were like battling to like, I watched it here in Vegas. Vegas was the better team for a lot of the game. But it's like the abs don't need 20 good minutes or 30 good minutes or 40 good minutes. They only need to be good for about a third of a period and you are screwed because they score so many goals when they're on. And that to me is like what it's going to be so hard to knock this team out the playoffs because even when they have bad games, they still win. And that's why they've got

this ridiculous record. And it just, it just feels like I can't remember a team that needs less of its game to go right for it in order for them to win. And it's going to be tough to beat them over four times over seven games. As you cover the Central Division, I need you to do a story with Brock Nelson about the whiplash from going to those lock it down Islanders teams to this absolutely down your throat Colorado Avalanche team. And what the difference is like he's played on both of those two teams. He's been excellent on both of those two teams. Yeah, he's not playing for Barry Trots anymore, is he?

It's got to be funny. And Nelson, he's having a spectacular season. His underlying numbers are so good. Some of the best in the league, and he is producing them. I know a lot of people to go back to the original argument we had on this show, we're talking about that he shouldn't be on the Olympic team. He absolutely belongs on the Olympic team. He's the quintessential bottom six center for an Olympic team team that's going to make a run at a gold medal. He's been great. You got a prediction, Jesse? Yes. I talked about it a little bit with Logan Thompson and team Canada. I'm going to say 2026 is the year of Logan Thompson and the year that we finally put him in the elite category because he's been doing this for a while now. And look, I'm as guilty as anyone. I haven't believed in Logan Thompson. He has had to prove himself more than most goalies in my eyes just because of the way he does things. He's very unorthodox. His stance is a disaster technically. Like if you go through what a goalie coach tells you what your stance is supposed to be,

Logan Thompson does none of that. But it works. Like there's more than one way to stop a puck. And this guy, looking back at his time here in Vegas, maybe the Golden Knights made the wrong decision. Like they chose Aden Hill over Logan Thompson. Aden Hill won the cup. Two years later, it's looking like that might have been the wrong decision. And at the time, I felt it was the right decision. So, like I said, I'm right there with everyone else who's been doubting this guy basically his

whole life. And I'm done doubting him. He's first or second and goals saved above expected, depending on what night you look. He's right up there. He's done it two years in a row. I thought maybe his first year in Washington, maybe he was a little insulated. Okay, it's a one year type wonder. He's doing it a second year in a row. He's been too good for too long. I'm finally ready.

to say Logan Thompson is one of the elite goalies in the league. I expect him to eventually be Team Canada's top goalie. I think if Team Canada wins a gold, it'll be with Logan Thompson and net. And I think he wins the Vezina because he is just the most consistent. Like the other guys around him just haven't been as consistent as Logan Thompson has. So I just have a ton of belief that he's going to continue it. That makes me wonder, who is the last time, who's the last goalie that we promoted to that elite level? It feels like you've got Hella Buck, you've got Chesterkin, you've got maybe Sorokin.

I'm sure I'm leaving off someone obviously. Ottinger. Ottinger, yeah. And Bobrovsky is the regular season. People don't think of him that way, though. I feel we got a ton of like Jeremy Swamen types, Thatcher Demko types. These guys that are really good,

but we haven't put in that kind of like holy triumvirate yet, the way we have Helibuck, Shestirkin, and Sorokin. What does it take for a goalie to make that leap? Like Spencer Knight's a guy who's trying to make that leap. There's just tons of guys that are that kind of like, to use your tiers, like 1B, 1C, 2A, 2B, that aren't quite 1A yet. What does it take for a guy to reach that level?

To me, it's just consistency. Like, it's, we talk about, like, to me, the best statistic we have for goalies is goals salesable have expected. And it's so much easier to lose them than it is to gain them, right? Like, you can play great for a month. And then you can undo that entire month with, like, two bad periods where you give up six goals and the expected goals was 0.8 goal. And it's like, all of a sudden, all that work you've done for a month to build it up.

And, like, Hellebuck is the shining example of consistency. The dude is always at the time. top of the league and goal save we've expected. And to me, Logan Thompson, like, is the closest thing we've seen to that other than Hellebuck. Like, Igor Shisterkin, to me, is the most talented goal in the world,

but he has off nights, like where he gives up five and three of them were bad. And it's just like, but then the next night he's amazing. I think he's still the most talented goal in the league. But to me, Logan Thompson is showing a level of consistency that we haven't really seen from guys

other than outside of Hellebuck in recent history. To me, that's the difference is being able to, over month after month after month. Like those numbers just don't go anywhere. Every morning I check the goal to say what expected. Logan Thompson's at the top. It's been three years now.

Like I'm ready to just say, okay, that's where he belongs is at the top. And season after season too, right? I mean, we're not going to give this to a guy who has one outstanding year. We're going to elevate him because he's done it two, maybe three years in a row because there are so many goalies that we see that can put up a 931 year and then it's a 906 the next, right? If Logan Thompson starts stacking those 925s and certainly has a chance to do that,

that gets him of that territory. I think it's, I was real quick. I think it's easier for like a Yesper Walshatt or a Yaroslav Ascarov to crack that elite category because they're expected to, right? Like Logan Thompson was not like a huge name to hockey fans. And then he was kind of like this, you know, middling journeyman goalie almost. And I think it takes longer for the public to recognize a goalie like that who has made that leap, you know, especially when they're not doing it in Toronto or New York.

Yeah. My predictions, Matt Boldie. And early this year, very early, it was one. one of our like overreactions or whatever. I think Joe Smith said that Matt Bowley was going to score 50 goals and 50 assists. Well, 50 assists is looking like a little bit of a stretch at this point, although it would only take one good week for him to get back on that track. He is on pace for 50 goals, though.

And guys, I say he does it. I mean, this Minnesota team, since adding Quinn Hughes only got more dangerous. It's an excellent power play. Matt Boldie is establishing himself as maybe one of the three or four best wingers in the NHL. I think he's got 50 goals in him and I think he does it this year. I think I made fun of Joe for. making that prediction too at the beginning of the year.

So I'm eating my words now. He was absolutely right. Boldy is, he is another guy. We talk about taking that leap when you go from a very good player to an elite player. And I think the Olympics could be a really great stage for Matt Boldy to kind of entrench himself. Like every year, anytime there's like a tournament like that, somebody steps up and becomes the guy and it stays that way for the rest of his career.

It could be Matt Boldy this year. Minnesota was just here in Vegas. And I remember talking to Russo before the game. And he was like, to me, Boldie is like basically in the same categories. Riesov. I see them very similar in terms of how good they are. And I'm just like, whoa, that's, that's like, that's quite the proclamation. And so then during that game, and by the way, Minnesota just steamrolled Vegas in the game. And I'm watching, like, I specifically was watching Boldie just because of what Mike said. And I'm like, I want to see, have a hard time arguing with

him after the game. He's, he's best player on the ice every time he steps out there. Like, he is so good. I agree with you. It's like, we should start considering him kind of like the conversation with Thompson. Like he has made a tear jump. Yeah. All right, Liz. You got one more. Sidney Crosby. I don't know if you guys have heard of him. I want to be here and be ballsy and say he's going to score 50 goals for just the second time in his career, but I'll be a little bit more modest and say he's going to score 45 goals for the second time in this career. He's got 24 and 41.

He's just unbelievable. Look, I don't have anything new to add about Sidney Crosby. You all know Sidney Crosby. I just feel like you have to mention Sidney Crosby every now and then because he is dragging his team into the fight here. And if that team, if that Penguins team is actually in a playoff push, If they're still in contention in the second half of the year, I think Sidney Crossby is just going to go absolutely ballistic. I think you can get close to 50.

I was just going to ask you, if he gets 45, is that enough to get him a wild card spot? It might be. In the Eastern Conference, it very well might be. Yeah. I'll say this. If McKinnon delivers on your other prediction, the 100 plus minus,

I will agree to start taking plus minus seriously as a statica. That's the promise that I don't take it seriously. But, you know, plus 100, you're on a pretty good team and you're pretty good. And all of this, but, you know, Corey Massac, our old friend, he's always tweeting these ridiculous stats about Nathan McKinnon. And every time I'm like, how is that even possible in the modern NHL for someone to be this dominant? He is just unbelievable. All right. One more thing I want to get to before we, we head out here today, Jesse. And that's the Winter Classic. First question here. Did you watch it?

I did. I mean, it was Sergey Bobrovsky versus Igor Shosturkin. It doesn't matter where they're playing. You're going to have a hard time keeping me from watching that game. But I always watch the Winter Classic every year, I don't get a whole ton out of it. Like, I will admit that even though I am, like, that's just my thing. If the Winter Classic's on, I'm going to watch it. But it has lost a bit of its, the specialness that we had early on. Yeah, I've covered six or seven of these because I cover the Blackhawks on that outdoor games, almost every year, as everyone will joke.

They are really cool when you're there. I understand the appeal. They are. It's kind of like an All-Star game where it's for the local audience. It's for the advertisers. It's for the fans who are there for the whole weekend. there's like a whole thing going around. It's great.

It's terrible television. It always looks bad on TV because the camera angles are wrong. The announcers, they're either at ice level or they're a mile away and they can't see what's going on. It's bad TV. I want to see more, I wrote this last year. I want to see more like Lake Tahoe style games in like really cool environments. There's that there's that lake that's half in the United States and half in Canada. I think it's in Minnesota and Manitoba.

Love to see a game there where the red line is the border between the countries. How cool would that be? We always talk about Lake Louise, the National Mall in D.C. I want to see that because that's made for a TV audience. That would be cool. But the NHL only cares about the short payday, not the long-term vision. And I don't think we're ever going to see it outside of like a football or a baseball stadium. And all football and baseball stadiums kind of look the same, whether you're in Nationals Park or Bush Stadium or whatever the Marlins Field is called.

It just doesn't look that good on TV. It's not that cool. I'd like to see them think a little more outside the box, but it's a big payday. And I can't deny. It is fun when you're there. I always make fun. I'm like, oh, God, I have another outdoor game to cover. you get there. I'm like, it's pretty cool. We're at Wrigley Field. It's pretty nice.

Yeah, I think that's where I'm at too, is I'm just having a hard time getting excited to watch one from afar. I didn't watch any of it. I picked the world juniors over it this year. And I don't regret that. Those were great games. And that was USA Finland that night to lead into it. And then the Canada game was a little more lopsided. But I'm having a harder time getting into it. I agree with you, though. It's for the people who are there. And I love your idea about the border war game. I think if that happens, what we need is those teams then do not switch sides in between, period. too. The U.S. team is always defending the U.S. side of the border and whoever were the Canadian team that you'd have there, the Jets, I suppose. It'd probably be the Jets in the wild. To be fair, I don't know how logistically feasible it is to have it on an actual lake where

people could theoretically die, but it would be cool to watch. You don't have to actually do it on that lake. You could just do it along that border, right? Although I don't know what the situation is, I suppose. But I think that's a great idea. The Tahoe one is the only one of recent memory that I've gotten excited to see because of the visuals. You have to give the TV viewer. And maybe it is kind of the player matchup, the goalie matchup. I think I could get excited about seeing Maclin Celebrini's first outdoor game at a winter classic. And I get Jesse's point. You get Bobrovsky and Shosturkin.

That's a good game, period. But when the hockey, to me, is just not as good as in a building hockey because the ice is different, the circumstances are different. It makes it a harder sell. It feels more like an exhibition. It doesn't help that the game this year sucked. The game last year really sucked that a Hawks Blues game was horrible. Like too often we get a matchup that, you know, it's made for, I mean, Rangers, Panthers should have been better, I suppose, but it just wasn't a good,

and you can't predict that. You can't guarantee a great game every time. But if you have a great, if you have a game like the first ever one where you have Sidney Crosby scoring, you know, the shootout winner in the snow, that lasts with people. Oh. A crappy game, sometimes you just get a crappy game. That's hockey. Yeah, I totally agree that the way to save it is exotic locations of like just things that

pop on the TV, things that make you say like, wow, I can't believe They're playing a hockey game right there. And obviously that takes away the audience. You're not going to be able to sell as many tickets. We might just have to wait for the next pandemic, right? That's the first pandemic gave us Tahoe. I mean, that was the only reason they did Tahoe. Of course.

They wouldn't have done that. If they could have sold tickets, they, the only reason they did that is, they're like, we can't sell tickets. So we'll do something cool. So we just don't worry, guys. We'll know the pandemic eventually and then we'll get something cool. Maybe the answer, though, is the opposite of that. Maybe the answer is that the NHL should tell all of us who just want to watch it on TV to,

you know, screw off because to last this point, if you're making the experience for the people who are showing up and you're fitting in four times or three times, a number of people that can normally go to a game and in cities even like, you know, I'm sure that they would love for more people in South Florida.

Granted, you know, the Panthers have given them every on-ice reason to be hockey fans already. But it's just one more way to get someone in the door to see your product. Maybe that's the answer is that we need to stop treating it like it's for us. Well, that's right. I've been saying that about All-Star Games years.

I've been to a ton of All-Star games. And they are really fun. That whole weekend is really fun if you're in town for it. And that's who it's for. And sometimes that's okay. Yeah. Well, but we already have three outdoor games every year. Like maybe one of them can be what we're talking about.

Something for the TV audience to grow the sport on TV. And then you can still do the other two for the local audiences. Get out of here with your rational compromises. We're doing it three times a year. It's not just the winter classic. Like, they do this. It feels like once a month during the same. season we have an outdoor game. So just one of them give us something cool on TV.

That's true. The stadium series is in a stadium. And either the Heritage Classic or the Winter Classic could be, you know, on the ponds in a more exciting location. All right. That's going to do it for us. Thanks for listening to this episode of the athletic hockey show. Sean, Sean and Frankie have you covered on Wednesday. We'll have a live reaction after the World Junior's gold medal game tonight for the prospect series. Talk to you then.