The Athletic Hockey Show - Patrick Kane heats up ahead of the trade deadline, Shea Weber traded to the Arizona Coyotes and the math behind LTIR moves

Episode Date: February 23, 2023

Ian and Sean discuss the hazards of recording a show around the trade deadline before diving into Patrick Kane's recent offensive hot streak and Sean's piece about different approaches GMs can take for the deadline. Also, Jesse Granger joins the show for "Granger Things" to discuss Vegas trading Shea Weber to the Arizona Coyotes, and the math behind LTIR trades, and Phil Kessel's production. To wrap up, positive reviews for the "Magic Picks" proposition in the mailbag and a look back with "This Week in Hockey History".Have a question for Ian and Sean? Email the [e-mail] or leave a VM: [phone]!Subscribe to The Athletic Hockey Show on YouTube: http://youtube.com/@theathletichockeyshowGet a 1-year subscription to The Athletic for $2 a month when you visit http://theathletic.com/hockeyshowTake advantage of MANSCAPED®’s best valued bundle and save 20% Off and Free Shipping with the code NHL23 at http://Manscaped.comTry Peloton risk-free with a 30-Day Home Trial, New Members only. Not available in remote locations. See additional terms at http://onepeloton.ca/home-trialGo to https://www.chime.com/nhlshow to sign up for a Chime Credit Builder Visa Credit Card today! Thanks to Chime for supporting the show.Get a FREE 1-year supply of immune-supporting Vitamin D AND 5 FREE travel packs with your first purchase at http://athleticgreens.com/NHL Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is The Athletic Hockey Show. We're back. It is a Thursday edition of the Athletic Hockey Show. As always, it's Ian Mendez-Shon-McCand-Doo with you for the next hour or so. We've got a lot to get to eight days out from the trade deadline. We'll talk about the deals that have happened, the deals that might. We'll try and figure out that, I don't know if it's a turtle derby or what, the Eastern Conference wildcard playoff spot. Jesse Granger drops by for Granger Things.

We got a voicemail. We got emails. We got mailbag. That's a jampack. had a lot to get to get to you, I got to tell you, Sean,

though when we get into this time of year, this, I find this frustrating because, uh, quite frankly,

we could record this episode, we can post it and within five minutes, everything is outdated, right? Like, 100%. Yeah, we're going like,

ah, should Patrick Kane get traded or not trade? And then boom, he's going to get moved, Jacob Chikrin, Timo Meyer. So we just want to preface this with the listeners that we understand that we can post,

this and within 15 minutes this whole thing is going to be, it's going to be a moot point. 100%. Yep. It's, yeah. This is the risk that we, we run. Yeah. We knew. We knew when we took this assignment. This was a big gamble. This is the, the danger of the job that we take this on for you. The hazard. You know, what am I, like, this is one of the one things I do miss doing live radio, because I always think about, and it wasn't actually a trade deadline time. It was actually that infamous day in, I think it was the summer of 2016, when within 20, what was it, 27 minutes, Stephen Stamcoast, resigned in Tampa,

the Taylor Hall trade for Larson went, you know, the infamous Bob McKenzie, it's one for one. And then what was it, Weber, Weber for Suban, right? Yeah. And I remember doing live radio that, you know, I'm a bit of a prep freak when it comes to this stuff. And I had a whole show lined up. and I literally took the whole rundown,

I just tossed it to the recycling bin. I was like, okay, well, here we go. So the unfortunate thing is- because Stephen Stankos was the talk of the hockey world. Yeah. For a week, everybody was like, where is Stamcoast going to go? And he had met with these teams

and not these other teams. And then those two trades happened, and the Stamcoast news was the third one to drop. And everybody was just like, not now, Stephen. Nobody cares. Nobody, nobody's interested. we got other things to talk about.

And here we are seven years later and we're still doing Shea Weber trades. Yeah, exactly, right? Like how nutty is that? Yeah, Shea Weber gets moved again this week. And yeah, it's, you know, one other thing on the Stamco's, like he had come in, like around the time, that was when that quote unquote, legal tampering period had opened, right?

Yes. And he had come to Toronto. And remember the big rumor was, you know, Steven's going to sign in Toronto. But, you know, they'll fit him under the cap. But, like, Canadian tire has met with him. And they're going to give him, like, a side deal. And he's going to have all these lucrative sponsorship deals.

Like, he could probably make 15 or 20 million a year. Right. Like, it was, it felt like it was a done deal that he was coming back. I mean, I don't know about a done deal, but it definitely felt like he was, he was leaving Tampa. Right. You know, and, and look, I mean, he, he clearly made the right decision to stay. He's got two Stanley Cup rings. And you can absolutely understand why he stayed. This was the team that he had known his whole life.

They had his whole hockey, his whole NHL career, had treated him well and everything. It was it was absolutely the right move for him. But he did go and talk to the other teams. I mean, he, you know, him and the lightning were on a break for a little bit. And he did go on a few first dates. and then decided to stick around and make it work. And it worked out beautifully. And that was also the year that after Stephen Stamco's decided not to go to Toronto, not to go to Montreal, not to go to anywhere else, that we all decided, apparently, that local tax rates were the most important factor in any transaction.

We all went from knowing nothing about tax rates to becoming certified tax accountants. And to this day, anyone who's cheers for a team in a market where the tax rate is above zero will tell you that it's absolutely impossible to sign anyone because of that. I feel like, you know, Cap Friendly has that, right? Like they have the tool on the site where you can figure out what a player would make, say, in Nashville or Tampa. But it's nonsense because it assumes that the player like doesn't have an accountant. It assumes that this millionaire pro athlete has nobody looking at their money, nobody man. nobody managing it finding any, you know, anywhere to move things around.

Like, come on. Like, Stephen Stapco's going to H&R block. It's a very, very small difference. It's a very, very, yeah, he's like, he's sitting at home with like quickbooks, just, uh, turbo tax. He's at all the default settings. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Do we have any? Yeah. It's, but it's true. Like that, but that is the first one where I felt like the tax rate became a real talking point. I want, like, is that when cap friendly added that tool?

because I'm sure they didn't have it right away. I'm not sure. I mean, it may have been there all along, but none of us looked at it until we had to figure out. Because, I mean, we certainly, those of us in either in Toronto or in the Leafs orbit, there had to be a reason that the hometown boy would choose to play for some team in Florida rather than come back and lead his own team to a Stanley Cup. I mean, it couldn't just possibly be that they were just a better team,

better, all of that stuff. especially that he took, ultimately took less money to go back. But again, I can't imagine anyone arguing that he didn't make absolutely the right choice. Well, like you said, you know, with time being a flat circle. Yeah, Shea Weber traded again this week, this time goes from Vegas to Arizona. I love the tweet that came out from Craig Morgan. Craig has covered that franchise for a long time. And, you know, Craig Morgan tweeted out last night after the...

the coyotes acquired, Shea Weber. He tweets out, the coyotes legends who never played a game here, this is quite the lineup. So they got up front, they got Marion Hosa with Pavel Datsuk and Brian Little. And on the back end, now they've got Chris Pronger, Shea Weber. He says, Dave Boland will be the second line center. They just need a goalie. That's a remarkable list of Hosa. That's Pronger, Weber.

And we all know who the goalie is going to be, right? I mean, the carry price coyotes jersey is ready to go, just hanging there. That'll probably be seen. I was thinking Bobroxki. Well, yeah, maybe. I have a mailbag going tomorrow where somebody asked me, you know, give us the all-time dead cap trade deadline team versus the summer off-season team. And it's interesting because the goalies are the tough one.

it's actually difficult to find a goaltender who's been in that situation. I don't know if it's because maybe goalies don't get as long-term contracts, although obviously Price and Bobrovsky did, or if it's something else about the position or the way the injuries work. I don't know, but it's very hard to find a goalie. Although, this is a fun one. You want to stump your friend on trivia. Ask him what team technically Ben Bishop is on right now,

because he is one of those guys. Who's, who's cap is Ben Bishop sitting on right now? Where Ben Bishop is. His cap. Like, I remember, I mean,

Dallas obviously had him, and I do remember him, man, I. Ben Bishop, who has a $5 million cap hit is currently on the cap of the Buffalo Sabres. Wow.

Never let it be said that the Sabers don't have a goalie. I mean, and I mean, it's Ben Bishop, right? Like he, he pretty much. was on a mission to play for every team in the league at some point.

So I think like he was L.A. Right? Like LA, Dallas, Tampa. St. Louis started at St. Louis. And, you know,

Tampa obviously, he really bounced around good. And yeah, he got traded to the Sabres last summer in just one of those. I don't know. Do we like these deals? Like I don't think anyone likes these deals. Nobody's like,

this is great. Are we? Do you have an issue with it or is this just this is how it works in a cap league and you just roll with it? Yeah, I think you have to just accept that it's part of it, right? Like, look, if the league had a problem with it, they would have stepped in and stopped this loophole, right? Mm-hmm.

Clearly. And I mean, I don't have an issue with teams trading, like, you know, like the deal that the senators made yesterday with the Zytsib, where you're giving up picks to move a bad cap number. I think that's that's fine. I guess where I get a bit of an issue is where you have these teams stashing guys who are never going to play again and doing it as their way of hitting the cap floor. That's the part that I that I think you could object to. You could sit there and go, hey, we have a cap ceiling. We also have a cap floor. You shouldn't be able to get to the cap floor with guys who are just clearly not anywhere close to ever playing again.

That objection I could see. But it's, it's, it's an objection that if, if the league has it, like you said, they would have done some about it and they have, they have not. So I guess we, I guess we roll with it. Yeah. So she, yeah, she, whoever gets moved and, like, man, like, and dice and mayo goes back the other way. And that, you know what, maybe we'll talk when Jesse Granger drops by, we'll ask him

about the, you know, the backstreet of why they felt they, you know, had to move Weber now or why they move Weber now, what it does for them. And the fact that I feel like a lot of people, if anything about that deal caught them off guard, it was the fact that he was going from Vegas. This wasn't like he's already out of Montreal. And that's the strange thing. I feel like Shea Weber is destined to just be traded once a year back and forth from a small market cap floor team to a cap ceiling team.

and somehow every time we'll be told it made sense. Because Montreal was not in any cap troubles, and they trade them to Vegas, a team that notoriously is right up against the cap, and everyone goes, oh, that's good, that's going to give Vegas more cap room. And I just feel like 90% of us as fans are sitting there going,

sure, I'll nod along and pretend that that makes any sense that you can be up against the cap, trade for a guy with a big cap number, and that gives you more cap space. Sure, why not? And we all sort of accepted, yes, this is good for Vegas. And now Vegas trades him away. And we all go, oh, that's also good for Vegas.

I don't get, apparently, as long as you trade for or from Shea Weber, it helps your salary cap. Yeah. Actually, Shana Goldman has a great kind of explainer piece on this exact topic where she just sort of breaks down. Like, why did Arizona acquire them? Why did Vegas get rid of them? Why did Vegas get him in the first place? All that stuff. So good explainer on this.

site. That would be fantasy hockey writer of the year, Shaneagle. Yes. To you, by the way. It's back to back victories for her. Yeah.

I believe. It's a dynasty. Going for the three Pete. Yeah. Next year, someone's got to take her down. But it's great for it. Terrific writer.

She was on the Monday pod. We, we chatted about some, you know, kind of cup contending stuff. But great, great explainer of the, the Weber deal.

Now, like I said, The problem with doing these pre-recorded pods is we're going to have some topics that likely could become moot points at some point in the next 24 hours if some trades happen. Let's just record a bunch of different takes. With the old. Patrick Kane. Mr. Mark. Did the Rangers give up too much?

All right. Three, two, one. Did the Dallas Stars give up too much for Patrick Kane? Yeah. Timo Meyer to New Jersey, Timo Meyer to Carolina, Timo Meyer to fill in the blank. Carlson in Edmonton. And, you know, we talk. But then we have to go through each scenario, 10% retention, 15% retention.

That's right. Yeah. Yeah. Just keep doing it. Yeah, that'd be. Yeah. By the time we're done recording, it's like the deadline is past. Three weeks past the deadline.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that sounds good. But, you know, the Patrick Kane thing is phenomenal because, you know, he had the two games last week against Toronto and Ottawa where he scored the five goals. And you're like, oh, okay, wow, Patrick Cain's woke and up. Then he has that weird, like that game,

I was so upset when they took that goal away from him, was against Vegas, right? Where he scores with, like, look, that could have been the guy's last game on home ice. Like, just give it to him. You got to get it right, Ian. Did you miss the memo? This is, it's always have to get away of a good story.

But then he goes back on Wednesday night and he's flirting with a hat trick again. He gets two goals, three points. They beat Dallas. Chicago, look now, they've won four in a row with Kane scoring seven. Don't look if you're a Blackhawks fans. Yeah.

They're like, that's why they're like, we got to trade for Zitesat. We got to do something here. But they've won four in a row. He's got seven goals. I mean, do you think that if, and it feels like the Rangers are like the only team out there that seem to be hooked to. We were, when the Teresenko deal happened. Yep.

We all said, well, that's it. They're out on Patrick Kane. Patrick Kane even said, I mean, there were the, you know, he was asked by the media and He sounded genuinely upset that it wasn't going to be able to happen. And now, suddenly, maybe the Rangers are back in. Maybe there's ways that they can create not 10 million in cap space, but could they create the two and a two and a half million or so that they would need? If Chicago retains 50%, if you get a third team to broker another 25%,

same as we just saw for the Ryan O'Reilly deal. Could they fit them in? and it's starting to sound like they could. And it certainly sounds like he was very open to going there. We don't know how many other teams may be on his list, if any, but it's starting to feel more and more like, you know what? This could still, the door is still cracked open. Let's put it that way.

Yeah. So Kane, you know, he's just been just dialed in. Now you're thinking, like, how on earth you're right? Like, how do the Rangers fit this in? And okay, let's just say conceivably the Rangers land Patrick Kane. And I think a lot of people look at the East and they're like, it's, like, people look at the East and they're like, you know what, Boston and Carolina are like kind of the front runners. And then after that, people are like, Toronto, Tampa, the winner of that series could very well be the, be the favorite in the East. Where would you put the Rangers?

If they ended up with Patrick Kane. Yeah, they move right up there. I mean, they're already. With those other teams? Yep. I think so, right? Yeah, yeah, I think so. You go down the list of what the Rangers have.

I mean, they're going to have, if not the best goaltending in any series. They'll have, it'll be even. So they don't have to worry about that. They've got the big names, you know, they've got the big names up front. They've got Adam Fox. They've got a real nice, deep team. And a very different story playing out than last year. Because obviously, you know, this.

This team went to the conference final last year. This was the team that emerged from the Atlantic. And we kind of feels like we maybe forget that a little bit because there's so much focus on Carolina and then the devils have been such a great story. But it's, it is a situation where the Rangers, I think, are right in that mix. It certainly looks like it's likely, not locked in the way it is for Toronto, Tampa, but it's likely that we're going to get a Rangers Devils playoff series. I mean, as great as the Devils have been, Rangers are maybe going to be the favorite in that series.

I think certainly they'll have the gold-tending edge. They'll have an edge in a lot of places. Experience. Yeah. Yeah. So, and then, you know, who knows, they go and play Carolina. Well, we saw it to, you know, we've seen that one already. So, yeah, you add Patrick Kane, especially a healthy Patrick Kane.

And obviously, he's not, the way he's played for the last week and a half is not going to be. his new normal. But, you know, he looks healthy. He looks ready to go, motivated. Yeah, I think you add that in there. And you, you could talk me into a Patrick Kane Rangers team slotting in as high as number two. I don't think I put them past the Bruins because the Bruins are just having a

historically good season. But they're right there. You know what? If you're the Rangers and Chicago, Kyle Davidson comes to you and says, okay, we will give you Patrick Kane, he's willing to go. You give us one of Capo-Caco or Alexis LaFranier. Do you do that deal if you're the Rangers? For a straight rental.

It's a straight rental. I feel like I'm getting suckered in here because I ever, look, every time that I say anything to suggest that either one of those two guys is maybe underachieving based on expectations, I will immediately hear from all the Rangers fans. I mean, Capo caco, all I know is anytime I say anything about him and I point out that he's, you know, he's got like seven points in, you know, the season or he's got like, you know, like 45 career points since being the second overall pick. I've always thought, no, no, if you watch the team, you would have seen three weeks ago, he had two really good shifts in a row where he,

you know, he didn't get any points or, you know, create anything, but they, there was good forechecking and the kid line and all of this. I'll be. I'll be. real honest with you. If I'm, if I'm the Rangers, you know, would I consider that? I might consider it, but I don't think I have to do that. I'm really, you know, if I'm the Rangers, I'm hoping that I come at this from a position

of strength where it's possible, I might be the only team on Patrick Kane's list. Yeah. And if I'm not, it's going to be limited. I'm not necessarily going to the Blackhawks trying to blow their socks off with an offer. I've already got Vladimir Teresenko. That gives me a lot of

leverage in that, you know, I want Patrick King. I don't need Patrick King. I'm not a team where, you know, the Hawks can call me up and say, look, man, we know you need to make this deal. So you better meet our asking price. I don't think it's that situation at all in New York. I'm probably seeing if I can get them, get them cheaper than that and get them without taking a player off the roster. If I can do that and make the cap work, you know, let's see if we can do it with picks instead. And Kyle Davidson might just have to take what he can get. Yeah. Anyway, look, the Rangers have some young assets. They have, if they're in the wind now, push the chips in the middle of the table mode,

maybe you do it. Anyway, it's, it's interesting fodder and the way Kane is playing lately, it certainly makes you, makes you wonder. Now, that brings us the natural segue to your column on Tuesday or Wednesday. Earlier Wednesday, yeah. Wednesday. The 13, that's right, 13, 13 different approaches your favorite team's general manager can take at the trade deadline. Not nine, not 10, not 11, not 12, 13. Not even a full list. I mean, I'll be real honest with you. I like to go for the even numbers.

And this was supposed to be a dozen. And then I sat down at the end and I'm like, oh, I got, I got an extra one in there. Well, so it's a bonus. Baker's dozen. Baker's doesn't. So again, I like to take our listeners kind of a, call it a peek behind the curtain, your process. So like, call them like this. I know it's rattling around in your brain or maybe you've got, you know, you've got some ideas.

Like, when did, you know, do you have like kind of five or six sitting there in the holster? Then you're like, okay, when I sit down, we're going to get like, take us through the process of where you come up with 13 approaches to the trade deadline. And look, this isn't even meant to be the definitive. list. But this is just sort of, you know, preparation is important. And here's sort of the different types of deadlines that you often see teams have. And I just like doing stuff like this because as a fan, what I'm hoping is you'll sit down and go, oh yeah, two years ago, we were this team. And this year, we're probably going to be these guys and you go on down the list. And look, you've got some of them are obvious. You know, the, the, the big sell-off, the yard sales

as I call it. That's, you know, that's a pretty typical one. Not to be confused with the blatant tank, which, you know, a lot of people group those two together. But to me, when you're doing the sell-off, the yard sale, you're trading anyone you can get value back for. When you're tanking, you don't even worry about the value. You're just, you're just saying, you just take these guys off my team.

I don't even care what I get for them because I just don't want to win any games down the stretch. The one that always stands out to me with that is the Sabres in 2015, where they just traded their goaltenders. They're like it. Yeah. You guys all go. We don't have any goalies left anymore. We got, you know, yeah, but we just, you know, we're going to go down the stretch without anybody because this one guy was starting to play a little too well and he was making us nervous. You know, ones like that.

And then, you know, I get into some of the ones that are a little more obscure. The one that's near and dear to my heart is what I refer to as just silver. this is the team that doesn't do much, but they really want you to know that they came in second on everything. They were right in there on everyone. They were, you know, they were number two on just about every big deal. And it's just, it's always fascinating to me because, I mean, it's a PR exercise for the GM. You can just picture them work on the phones with all their contacts saying, hey, man, you got a

report that I was right in on this guy and that guy. And then they seem to want the credit for it. They seem to want us to be like, hey, great, great job. It's great to hear you were in on everyone. And I've never seen a fan that was impressed by that. As a fan, you're always sitting there going, yeah, but you didn't actually do anything. Yeah, but I tried really hard. I just got the silver medal on all the big names.

And that is after the 2010 Olympics in which Team Canada beat Team USA in the gold medal game, the Anaheim Ducks kind of did a fun video, or was that for the NHL Award show? It was for the NHL Awards. Yeah, they had the Ducks, Getslaw and Bobby. left. Bobby Ryan. One of the few times that the NHL has tried to do something funny and hit it out of the park. You know, usually with the NHL or the team, they go for comedy and it's, it's, it's, it's cringy. But this was, this was genuinely funny. And I got to say, Bobby Ryan, solid actor, solid comedy timing for this guy. You know, the career, you know, the career is winding down. It, it may be, maybe, maybe he might have, have, uh, future in.

in the sketch comedy world. Sketch, well, yeah, I mean, you're right. So many of those award show skits are just, you're cringing, right? You're kind of, is like, if you ever see a bad stand-up comedian, and you're just like, you just feel uncomfortable, right? Like, everybody just feels, but this was a really good one with Bobby Ryan and Ryan Getslap. And, yeah, you're right. I couldn't remember if that was a Ducks video or an NHL Awards video because.

No, it was, it was great because it was, you know, it's Ryan Gets left, just bullying Bobby Ryan. And then they're competing. And then the punchline is at the end that Scott Niedermeyer shows up to help Brian gets left. So it was real, it was a real good one. I mean, it wasn't quite up there at the level of A plus comedy that we used to get from Allen Thick back in the day,

but it was still, it was pretty darn good. Yeah. And then so many of those sketches just, you just wonder like, Like who, like, is the audience that they're testing, the test audience, is this the same audience that they're legitimate, like they say, we've polled this with our fans. Yes. It's the same. The Gary Betman fake survey is. Yeah.

But I got to say, though, I have sympathy for them because I feel like a lot of these, you know, little comedy bits, they probably look pretty good on paper. They're probably, you know, legitimately funny stuff in your head. But then you got to go and film it with NHL. You know, you got to sit there and, like, try to get Sidney Crosby to deliver his lines with impeccable comedy timing. And it's just, uh, it's generally just not there. But they, they stumbled onto something with Bobby Ryan. And Ryan gets left, too, playing the sort of playing the villain in the piece. But he does a, he does a great job with it.

All right, Sean, as always on a Thursday edition of the Athletic Hockey Show, time to bring in our man, Jesse Granger. For the segment called Granger Things, brought to you by BetMGM, the exclusive. betting partner with us at the athletic. And Jesse, we were talking earlier in the pot about the Shea Weber trade and how Sean jokes that it's an annual tradition. Shea Weber just gets moved around the league to situations that are advantageous to the salary cap. So maybe you can explain to the listeners what Vegas was thinking when and why it helps them to move Shea Weber's contract now just before the trade deadline and send them down to

to Arizona. Yeah, so I'll start by saying you basically have to have a PhD to understand long-term injured reserve. I have been trying to do it without a PhD, and it was not easy, but I do think I have a pretty good grasp of it. And it's more complicated than most salary cap moves, because usually it's just pretty easy plus minus equation. But so the Golden Knights didn't gain any cap space for this current season by moving Shea Weber. His 8.75 or 8.6 million, whatever it was, 7.6 million was already not counting towards the cap because he's on long-term injured reserve. The Golden Knights with Weber and Mark Stone and Robin Lennar, all on LTIR, they have 8.75

million in cap space that they could use right now if they wanted to. That number stays exactly the same after trading Shay Weber. What it does, though, is it kind of gives them more flexibility. flexibility in the off season. So for two reasons. One, because in the off season, you can only exceed the salary cap by 10%. So if next year's cap is 83.5 million, which is what we currently projected to be, at any point in the summer, you're not allowed to go over about 91 point something around there. So if you were to try to sign a player, and that would take you over that, it's literally an illegal transaction. You can't do it. Now, you could put Shea Weber on L.C. Weber on L.C.

LTIR during the summer, but that then sets your pool for the whole season. Teams, this is where it gets really complicated. Teams want to put all their guys on LTIR right before the season at the same time. That way they can maximize and get the most relief. And if you were to have to do it with Shea Weber in the middle of the summer so that you could sign somebody, it would screw you up, basically. And then the other reason is once you're in LTIR, once you're using it, there are all kinds of things that are pain in the butt when you're in when your team is

in LTIR. But once you're in it for one player, it doesn't make it any worse if you're in it for a bunch of players. So when the Golden Knights saw Robin Lennar is going to miss the entire season, they're like, you know what, we need to unload this Dadov trade. This is last summer. Let's trade the Dadaunov contract, which is an actual contract that counts for Shea Weber's that doesn't count because we're already in LTIR in the first place. So adding Weber's LTIR contract doesn't make it any worse. Well, the Golden Knights are now hoping that Lennar and Stone and all the guys that are currently on LTIR are going to be back next year and they're going to come off LTIR in the off season. And then at that point, Weber's contract does hurt you because it keeps you in LTIR

when you don't have to be anymore if you didn't have that contract. And there are all kinds of little things that it hurts to be an LTR. But the biggest one is you don't accrue cap space, right? So like cap space is calculated daily and teams right now at the deadline have a lot more cap space, then it actually shows if you were to go on cap-friendly and it says a team's got two million. They actually have a lot more than that because the contracts are pro-rated for how much is left in the season, blah, blah, blah. When you're an LTIR, you don't get that benefit. You're not able to use that.

You don't accrue cap space. So not being an LTIR is ideal. So I think the Golden Knights, when they acquired the Shea Weber deal, it was like, ah, this doesn't matter. We're already in LTIR. Let's just take this on it. It makes the number look even bigger, but it really doesn't matter. And now they're hoping to gain flexibility.

And what that ultimately means, I think, is now the Golden Knights have a little more flexibility this summer to trade for someone with term or sign a player to an extension. Most of their top guys are already signed beyond this season. So if they had a guy that was a pending UFA coming up and they wanted to get him a deal, this would be great for that. But they really don't. So everyone knowing this team and how they like to trade for big contracts, everyone says they're probably going to trade for someone with term. I don't necessarily know if that's the case. I think maybe this move was just a good move to give yourself flexibility, put them into a better spot going into the summer. But if they do end up trading for someone like Timo Meyer, who doesn't have term but is an RFA and we're all assuming we'll get a contract from whoever trades for him, this move would definitely make that a little easier and take some of the strain off during the summer.

So nothing imminent that you're hearing as far as this. This is the time of year where every minor trade, we all start talking about dominoes. Maybe this is the domino that's going to knock on. And it never happens. It never goes that way. But I will admit, you had me pegged perfectly. As soon as I saw this move and I started to wrap my head around what it meant for the offseason, I thought, the Golden Knights had got somebody on a with term that they're about to pull. to trigger on a deal for.

And it sounds like you're saying that's a possibility, but it doesn't feel like there's an obvious part to this. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we know this team is aggressive, right? And they, I have some skepticism about how good this team can be without Mark Stone healthy.

And he just went, underwent back surgery for the second time in eight months. So who knows, they expect maybe he could possibly be back in the playoffs, but who knows how effective he'd be or how I have a lot of skepticism about if they're a cup contender without. Mark Stone. But they're still in first place in the Pacific Division. This front office is incredibly aggressive. It wouldn't surprise anyone if they were to go out and make a big move. Like you said,

I just, I don't think anything, I don't think there was another deal on the table. And they were like, let's just get rid of Shea Weber real quick. And then we can do that deal. I don't think that was the case. I think this was a, this move is better for our team regardless. Yeah. And it's, it's funny you mentioned that you need to have a PhD to kind of navigate this stuff. I mentioned earlier that Shana Goldman has a great piece up, just kind of explaining why teams do these types of trades, why the coyotes picked up Shay Weber. And I just double check because I'm, yeah, I'm pretty sure this is in her in Shana's bio. I looked at the end of her bio and it says Shana has a master of science and sports business from New York University. So there you.

checks out. Yeah. There you go. As suspected, you need to have some formal education to understand this thing. Hey, actually, Granger, we got a question for you from from a listener named Sean, who has a question about Phil Kessel. And I'll be honest with you, Phil Kessel has been completely off my radar. Now, the Iron Man streak is still going.

Is that right? Yep. Okay, because I was just thinking, man, I remember he was getting up to a thousand games and then it just kind of went away. Okay. So the Iron Man streak is going on. This email came into us and Sean asks,

hey, has anyone noticed that Phil Kessel is actually putting up some points again? back in the lineup, he's got 11 points since January, close to the team lead during that time. What has changed from early in the season that is making him more effective? So Sean wants to know what is,

what's up with Phil Kessel? Can we just point out that as much as I love Phil Kessel, this is not me sending questions to my own show. This is, not that I wouldn't ever do that. I just, you know, you change the name, at least. Exactly. Yeah.

This comes in from Wendell Duggy. Wendell Duggy has a question. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, Kessel's been, he's been much, much better lately. He's definitely playing his best hockey of the season. As the listener pointed out, he had 14 points in his first 40 games, which is not good. And he's at 11 in his last 17, which is very good for a player that's got the minor cap hit that he's got and playing a third line role.

It's so, it's strange because Bruce Cassidy mixed the line combination. up in Vegas. And for a while there, Kessel was playing with Michael Amadio and Brett Houdin and a few other guys. He mixed it up. And now he's playing next to Chandler Stevenson, who is the leading scorer on the Golden Knights, most points on the team, and William Carrier, who is traditionally a checking forward, but this year he's got 15 goals. He's having the best offensive season of his career. And this is one of those lines that when they put it together, I thought, what in the hell is that? There's no way this line's going to work. It has. And then when I talk to the player, is like, I asked William Carrier, why is this line working?

He's like, I don't have no idea. It looks like it wouldn't, right? They don't even understand why it works, but it has. They all three skate well. Kessel isn't the fastest guy, but he does still skate really well. Chandler-Stevenson and William Carrier are probably the two fastest skaters on the team. So maybe that has a little bit to do with it, but they're just so different in their styles. Like Carrier is a wrecking ball.

He is a direct player. Goes straight to the net. Crashes the net. He's the first guy in on the forecheck. He's finishing checks. and Kessel is none of those things. But his skill has kind of been able to shine. Like we really haven't seen much of that in Vegas.

When the Golden Knights acquired him, it was like, well, he's kind of on the end of his career, but he did have 50 assists for the coyotes last year. And maybe he can surround it with some better players. He'll put up numbers. And we really saw none of that through the first 40 games. But lately we have. We've seen his playmaking ability. He's been getting the puck to Stevenson and Carrier in good spots.

I think those two have kind of their. speed maybe backs some teams off and gives Phil a little more room in the neutral zone. He's not as crowded because the speed of Carrier and Stevenson, defensemen are just on their heels. They're constantly trying to get back so that they don't let one of those two behind them. So I think that stretches teams out and gives him space to work in the neutral zone. It's a really, really interesting combination. I don't think anybody in Vegas is quite sure why it's working, but it is. And it's led to the Golden Knights are getting like, I just wrote a story on it yesterday. day, they are getting probably the most evenly distributed goals of any team in the league.

There are only four teams in the league without a 20 goal score. And the Golden Knights are one of them. Nobody scored 20 goals on this team yet. I could not believe that when I saw that story. I mean, if you would ask me, name the four teams, I would have gotten through pretty much the entire league before I hit on the Golden Knights as an option there. Yeah. And a big part of it is because I'll miss some time. Like he's right there on at 18. And if he had played those 13 games, he probably would have hit it. But I mean, like, it's them. And then it's the Predators, Blue Jackets, and Blackhawks, which are three of the worst offensive teams in the league. And the Golden Knights are actually, like, in the top half of the league offensively.

And the reason is because they're getting goals from everybody. I mean, they've got 10 different guys with 11 goals. And this new strategy by Bruce Cassidy to, like, at first he was just kind of loading up the top six. Now he's really pushed guys further down. Like I said, Chandler Stevenson is technically playing on the third line, even though he's the leading points guy on the team. He's got Smith and Carlson playing together. They've played together forever since the first season here in Vegas. And they're playing with Amadio. And they've really unlocked him.

Amadio is playing really poor hockey, getting healthy scratch at the beginning of the season. Now he's playing really well. Cassidy can't say enough good things about him. And then they've got the rookie Paul Kotter, who's having a really good rookie season up on the top line with Eichl and Marcia. And he's scoring just as much as those two up there. So it's interesting the way things have worked out for Vegas.

Hassell's gotten a big boost out of it. And the team, obviously, they're playing pretty well out of the All-Star Break, so it's working. Is there any chance Stone comes back in the regular season? Or is this just maybe fingers crossed playoffs for him? I, yeah, from everything I've heard, I do not expect Mark Stone to be back in the regular season. It's back surgery. So, yeah, it's very tough. Like, this is a, this is a time, like, I don't know. And even the people that are in the know that talk to Mark every day, I'm not even sure if they know when he'll be back. I do think that we may get an idea of what the team thinks here before the trade deadline because like I said, they've got $8.75 million in cap space right now that they could use. That's not including Mark Stone's salary. So Mark Stone makes $9.5 million.

If he's back in the lineup, they suddenly have no cap space. And they could easily just send a guy down to the miners and make that room for Mark Stone if they needed to. But if they trade for literally any substantial salary at the deadline, that tells you that they probably don't think Mark Stone's coming back at any point in the regular season. Otherwise, they would be in a situation that they were last year when they got Eichol where it was like, well, and we're healthy, all these guys can't be in the lineup.

And you don't want to be in that position after the trade deadline. I got to say, the Vegas goldmites are going to be one of the most interesting teams to watch. They're always interesting to watch around the trade deadline. But next Friday, I have a suspicion, Jesse. we're doing a live trade deadline day show on on Friday just after the deadline. I have a suspicion we're going to be reaching out to you and asking you to jump on as a guest. It wouldn't be a trade deadline without chaos in Vegas.

Exactly. Exactly. So listen, I know it's going to likely be a busy week ahead for you. So we look forward to all your coverage around the Golden Knights. Listen, thanks for this. And I know we'll hitch up again for sure next Thursday and possibly next Friday. Awesome. Thanks for having you, guys.

All right, yeah, I suspect Jesse Granger will be by, certainly Thursday, maybe Friday of next week. In fact, I should just start lining. I'm hosting that, I think with Haley Salvean on Friday, Sean. I think, should I just go ahead and reach out? Like, should we just book like Arthur Staple? Yeah, there's certain Jesse Granger. And I think you can, you can just go ahead and lock them in.

Lock them in. Yeah, anyway, so we look forward to that. Hey, before we open up the emails here and we got a voicemail to, real quick, Sean Gentilly had a piece. up on the athletic Thursday morning, looking at what is just a fascinating, I guess, seven-team race for two spots in the Eastern Conference. Remember last year when we were like,

man, this thing is a snooze fest? We know the eight playoff teams in the east by Christmas. If I had to ask you right now, pick the two teams that you think will lock down the wild card spots in the east. What's your answer today at the kind of end of? February. My answer is I'm going to give you one that I believe and I'm going to give you one that's wishful thinking.

The one I believe is the Florida Panthers. I just, I feel like this, they've got back on track. They're not rolling. That would be overselling it. But this is a team with a ton of talent. We saw that last year. I do think they make up the ground and get in. And the one that's wishful thinking, and I've said and written this before.

The Buffalo Sabres. This has got to happen. Come on. Give me the old school Adams Division, Sabers. Boston Buffalo. Bruins meeting. It's such an easy team to root for.

And obviously their fans deserve it after a decade plus of misery from that team. So wait, if you're thinking Florida Buffalo, like again, Florida is the one you're more certain of Buffalo's the wishful thinking. Are you suggesting that we could, see a scenario where both Pittsburgh and Washington miss in the same year? I mean,

they're both out of a playoff spot right now. Now in terms of points, not points percentage, but you know, Pittsburgh is, Pittsburgh is fading and Washington is flatlining. I mean, the capitals have no

points in their last five. That is disaster in a league where you can lose and still get points. to get the goose egg is disaster. So I mean, I'm not going to write off the capitals. They've also, you know, Alexander Ovechkin hasn't been there.

Maybe him coming back sparks him again. I'm not writing anyone off. But I really feel like this is, it's almost to the point where the capitals where if they don't turn it around very soon, I'm talking like over the weekend, early in the week, do you consider selling at the deadline?

Do you wave the white flag and focus ahead to future years? That would be a big, that's a tough call to make when you've got Alexander Ovechkin still in what for him is his prime. And same, obviously, a Pittsburgh team that went all in on bringing the quarterback for another run. That one is, that one is tougher for me to imagine. but the way the last week is gone, boy, they are not looking strong. You know, the team that I don't think enough people are talking about and they're actually holding down,

like if you sort the Eastern Conference by points percentage, the Detroit Red Wings are holding down the second spot. Pittsburgh has the first one. Detroit has the second one. And I think, you know, it's going to be amazing. And this is actually a result of people. Coincidence and luck and some bad weather back in December. Ottawa and Detroit are playing each other on back-to-back nights in the same city Monday, Tuesday

next week. And I feel like that is going to determine the playoff fate for both of those teams. Like if you're Detroit and you win both of those games, you put yourself in a great spot. And if you're Ottawa, you lose both those games, I think you're done. Yeah, Ottawa needs three or four points out of that. for sure. Yeah. But you know,

the dumb thing about the is that they could both end up with three points out of four, right? Like that's the stupid

thing of, yeah. I, yeah. Anyway, let me ask you, it's just as a senator's guy,

are those two games, is it hyperbole to say those are the two biggest senator games since the 2000, not the season, not the season, since the 2017,

playoff push. Yes. Yeah, I think so. Because they have never really been in the playoff off race because the year after they went to the conference final, that's the year they traded for Matthew Shane. The season went off the rails really in December of that year. Brady Kachuk has never

played what could be construed as a meaningful game in his entire career. Same with Thomas Shabbat. Never played a game where you went into it said, boy, they got to win tonight. Like, yeah, I think it's absolutely fair. In fact, I reached out to Max Bolton, I don't know, four or five days ago. I said, you know what, we got it, we should do something kind of leading it. Like, I, I think, This is like a huge, it's going to feel like the playoffs. And the other thing is, and maybe you would know the answer to this. I think it would take some research. But in the early 2000s, there was a little window where teams were doing these two

games series. Like, Toronto would come to Ottawa and play two straight games in Ottawa, right? In the regular season? Like, do you remember this? I vaguely do remember that happening. When's the last time? I want to, like, how can I look this up? When's the last time two teams.

played each other back-to-back nights in the same city in the regular season, not the playoffs, not a home and home, back to back in the same city. Not counting the pandemic season, because obviously it happened a ton then where you had the baseball style schedule. Yeah, it's, it happens every now and then, but man, that's, that's something I miss about the old school NHL, the, the old home and homes where it was two games and two nights, one in each building, those were great for the rival. And we don't see that.

These days, sometimes you'll see a home and home, but there's like a gap. They'll give them a couple days off in between. And sometimes you see what looks like a home and home. You're like, oh, okay, the Leafs, we're in Boston and then we host Boston. But then Boston's got a game in between where they go off to Washington or something. And you're like, what's going on? And the back-to-back nights, that's, you know, that used to be where the rivalries came from. Because something would happen in game one that would set the stage for game two.

I don't think we're in that zone anymore. but I didn't realize that they, that that's, that's a bit of a showdown to rebuilding teams that have not, you know, and I said the most important game for the senators, it would be the same for the Red Wings in roughly the same time frame, I think, because they haven't been there either. Anyway, don't sleep on Detroit, Ottawa next year. I know we wouldn't have said this in the last five years, but Detroit, Ottawa, it's going to mean a lot on Monday and Tuesday night. All right, let's go to the mail bag and we got a voicemail. A reminder, you can leave us a voicemail at 845-4-45-8-8459.

That is exactly what Dan from Michigan has done. Dan has phoned in. We talked about Sean's idea for magic draft picks that are kind of sprinkled in to the course of the regular NHL draft. These were to be used for extra picks. Well, Dan has some thoughts on that. Let's hear from it. I wanted to comment on the magic picks. I like the idea.

I kind of worry there's going to be a few, too many moving parts, but I think they should go for it. I also wanted to propose maybe a simpler version of the concept, the magic pick. I think there should be one completely random draft pick that is awarded to the President's trophy winner for the following year's draft. So that in the next playoff run, you know, the hemnextra bullet, when it gets to trade season, you know, maybe they already spent a couple of, couple first, last ones. Give them one more. Make it a little more exciting. And who knows, maybe it's a seventh round pick. Maybe it's the first round pick. You're not going to know until the day of the draft. Anyway, above the show. Bye. All right. So there you have it. Dan from Michigan. And I love how he's like, I'm a little worried. There's too many moving parts here. Well,

that's the premise of every one of Sean's ideas. There's a lot of moving parts. But what do we think? It's like, hey, a random draft pick is awarded to the team that wins the president's trophy. You know what? I like it. I like the creativity. Yeah. I like the randomness. I know some people will, you know, turn their nose up at that. And I like that we're rewarding the president's trophy, right? I mean, this is something that many people have made the observation that the president's trophy doesn't feel like he means anything. You know, nobody cares who wins it. Home ice through the playoffs doesn't really feel like an advantage these days. So this would be a way to make that meaningful. And yeah, wouldn't it be fun, especially if I'm understanding right, you know,

we don't even know what the draft pick is until draft night. And you could, you could trade it, right? What value do you put on a pick that could be, I mean, we already see teams go, ah, you know, this draft pick could be anywhere from 10th overall to 18th overall. Well, what if it was 10th overall to 200th overall? How do you even value that? I think that would be fascinating. I'm it.

It's creative. It doesn't make sense. Those are the two criteria I tend to like the most. And it throws a little chaos into the mix. So I'm on board. Yeah, me too. And appreciate the phone call, Dan from Michigan. Aaron from Cape Breton has written in via email.

And a reminder for email, you can always get us at The Athletic Hockey Show at gmail.com. Aaron writes in listening to Sean's idea regarding the extra bonus draft picks. I gotta say, I think it's fantastic. What a great element it would be to add each draft year and see the player movement because it would be highly entertaining.

One of the best ideas I've heard to help improve exciting drafts and trade. So this is all the rage from Michigan to Cape Breton. There you go. Okay? And that's, by the way, that is how you send an email to this show. There was no but.

There was no... Yes, however. Anything. No, however. Exactly. Just Sean's idea was great. End of email. Love it. Yeah, love it.

Speaking about trades, Jesse from Rhode Island has written in. Last week, you and I were talking about, you know, remember back in the day, like, when you and I grew up in the early 90s, you'd come home, you'd turn on your TV, you'd be like, holy smokes, like Paul Coffey got traded or, you know, Rick Tuckett got traded or Mark Reky got traded. Then you realize they were all traded for each other, and you're like, this is amazing. And Jesse from Rhode Island writes in, listen to your Thursday. pod. I'm in my, I'm a 40-year-old, so my formative years were in the early 90s, no surprise,

I'm a Penguins fan. Whenever I try and describe to younger fans what used to be trade deadline time, I like to refer to what I call the Pierre Terjean theory. Look at, this guy was a number one overall draft pick, a clear number one center, a perennial all-star, heck, he's a borderline Hall of Famer. Yet, every four years, in his prime, Pierre Turgeon got traded in what really was a hockey deal for another top pick or his center or somebody else who might be a Hall of Famer. And these trades happen during the season, not at the draft, not at the deadline, not in the summer. And they almost seem to come out of nowhere. First, he went to Buffalo in the Paddy Lafontein trade, then he went to Montreal for Kirk Muller and so on and so on. And Turgeon would score 40 goals and

90 points all the time. So my question is this. Who? Who? would be the modern day equivalent of that. Best thing I could come up with would be like 10 years ago of the Bruins and the Kings got off to slow starts and they just decided to flip Bergeron for Copatar. And then four years later, the Kings flipped Bergeron out to the capitals for Baxterum. Not a great comparison because those guys all won cups with their teams. But I think you get the point. Maybe today would be Jack Eichel for Leon Drysidal.

Either way, it seems preposterous now. The trades like that just came out of nowhere. That is from Jesse in Rhode Island. Yep, it was a different time. Now, I will, I'll take issue with only one element of this, which is the idea that the trades came out of nowhere, because like we talked about last week, a lot of these trades didn't come out of nowhere because at least half the trade was somebody who was sitting out, sitting at home. And the Pat LaFontaine deal would be an example of that. It may come out of nowhere for the Islander's side as far as, you know, Pierroterjohn. being involved, but Palafonte was sitting out. He said, I'm, I'm done. I don't want to,

I don't want to be here anymore. And that, that's what causes that deal to happen. And a lot of those trades did have that element to it. But, you know, he didn't necessarily know that or be following that story. If you're a fan of some other team, you just see these deals happen. And yeah, it was a, it was a different time and it was entertaining. And I just want to make very crystal clear to everyone that it was Jesse Bruins fans, it was Jesse who compared Patrice Bergeron to Pierre Turgeon.

Not us. Jesse from Rhode Island. It was Jesse from Rhode Island. So you had to... Who's a Penguins fan? Get the torches and pitchforks and head to Rhode Island and ask for Jesse. Don't come up to Ottawa looking for us

because that comparison. You know, look, part of the reason Pierre Turgeon got traded so much was he was not a guy that anyone mistook for Patrice Burzoran in his own end. But he sure was an incredibly productive player. And there's a good chance he played for your team for a little bit during that. And then Pierre Turgeon got traded from Montreal to St. Louis in a deal that brought Shane

Corson back to Montreal. Like, you know what? Here's a summer project for you. Not now because you're swamped. What player, when you take into account, all of the players he was traded for over the course of his career, could you come up with like the best starting lineup? I feel like I did that. Did you do that?

Good. It feels like something like that. Yeah, it does feel like. But Pierre Turgeon would be pretty good. Tershon might be up there. And the funny thing is you mentioned that Corsondale. I have like no memory of Pierre Turgeon playing for the Blues. Like I can remember him as a singer.

He was good. I remember him as an Islander, Montreal. He was fantastic in St. Louis. He was there for five years. He was putting up, you know, 60, 70, 80 points consistently. In the dead puck era. In the dead puck era, I mean, this was a guy that he was a productive player for pretty much everywhere he went. Even I'm looking at his stats now, even as a 36-year-old in Colorado, which I get no memory of that, puts up 46 points in 62 games.

Not bad. Not bad in a low-scoring era. So, yeah, the highest, you know, famously the highest scoring player, not in the Hall of Fame. Pierre-Turgeon. And we'll probably, unless he gets put in the Hall of Fame, will probably. hold that mark for a real long time because I can't imagine anyone in today's era having 1,300 points and not going to the Hall of Maine. No, exactly.

All right. One more email. This comes in from Avid listeners, Steve. Now, last week of the pod, you and I talked about during this week in hockey history, it was the very first hockey game that was ever broadcast on radio. They actually only brought, and it was in the 1920s, they only broadcast the third period of the game between Toronto and Ottawa. Well, avid, and I said, how weird is that?

Like, that seems really random. They just have technical difficulties. Like, what was the story there? Well, avid listener, Steve has written in and says, you guys talked about how hockey broadcasts may have started at the end of the second period or whatever way back in the day. I can tell you this. I grew up in the 1960s. Yes, the 1960s.

Side note, you are not old. I am old. Okay, that makes us feel good. Because every day when I wake up and I'm kind of, I'm like, I feel old. But so this feels good. So avid listener Steve says he grew up in the 1960s and says the puck drop used to be at 8 o'clock local time for games, but broadcasters did not start showing the game until a half hour later at 8.30, which was totally normal for us. The St. TV series starring Roger Moore was on from 8 to 8.30. Then after a commercial break for Lipton's tea, if I'm not mistaken, hockey night in Canada would start somewhere around the end of the first period.

So as a viewer, you were parachuted directly in to the action. And all of a sudden, you would see Ron Ellis streaking down the right wing taking a slap shot on Gump Worsley or something like that. It was kind of an exciting way to start a broadcast for an audience. In my case, the working class in Toronto, which the medium was still relatively novel at the time, that being television. That comes in from avid listener Steve. Boy, I love that story. I had no idea. But, but boy, I mean, how lucky are we these days instead of having to just jump right into the action?

I mean, what do you do without your 20-minute rambling pregame where, you know, you looked at the schedule said the game started at 7, but it's 718, and there's still the hosts are just talking to each other about nothing and you're looking at your watch going, isn't this game supposed to have started already? Yeah. Oh, I mean, it wouldn't be the same without 20 minutes of nonsense. that doesn't tell you anything before every game. Oh, man. Anyway, I love that. I love that story. Love that anecdote.

And it's, yeah, it's crazy. Like, imagine you're watching a game. Like, so you just start watching a game. Like, put yourself in Steve's shoes. You're a kid growing up in 60s. You're waiting for the game. Come on. It comes on.

Now you have no idea what the score is because at the time, there was no score bug. Like, so it could be 3-0-0 Chicago, could be 3-0-0. Toronto. You had no idea. Like, yeah, and no way to know. I mean, there's, you're not, you're not pulling out your phone and getting the score update. You just have no idea, yeah.

Oh, I, I mean, you and I are old enough to remember what it would be like sometimes where you, you know, you'd come home from, you know, from wherever you'd been, turn on the game. And you didn't know what the score was because there was no score bug. And you just have to sit there. Like, show me of the score. No, but you're trying to sense it from like the crowd. Yeah. Are they loud?

Kind of buzz is going on here. I don't know. John Brophy doesn't look happy, but he never looks happy. Yeah. But that was a prankster's paradise. Like you could be watching a game. And then let's say your dad comes in and you'd be like,

he's like, what's the score? You're like, ah, 3-0 Boston. And you're trying to suppress your laugh. And then it finally goes to commercial. It's 3-0 Montreal, sucker. Like, it was. Yeah. But you can't do that now.

But it was probably what, mid-90s? when that changed, when they had the score bug up on the school all time? Yeah. Yeah, I feel like early to mid-90s was when we got the graphic revamp. But yeah, there was a long time where you just did, you had to wait for a commercial. Yeah, 100%. You had to wait for the commercial. All right.

Let's wrap up with one this week in hockey history. And we're going to take you back to February 21st, 1999. Ray Shepard. Because you know what? I feel like when we do this week in hockey history, I like doing some. fun random things. There's so many things. Look, let's do this.

Ray Shepard scores his 20th goal of the season February 21st, 1999. Sean, he becomes the first player in NHL history to score 20 goals for six different teams. Your task in this week's this week in hockey history.

Look, I have no way. You could be cheating right now. You could be looking at a hockey reference. I don't know. What six teams did Ray Shepard scored 20 goals for? I like how you didn't reveal the team in the actual, yeah. Exactly.

Okay, I'll give you the ones that I definitely remember Ray Shepard playing for. Detroit. He had 50 goals for Detroit. Yeah, he did. 50 goals, yeah. Which is easy. Ray Shepard, to me, is like the all-time obscure 50 goals score. You know, nothing is a bad player.

John O'Gradnick? Yeah, there were guys like that, too. But I feel like Ray Shepard was the guy where when he got to 50 goals, we were like, you know what, maybe scoring is too high. Maybe it is time to, let's put a skate in or something. All right. So he had that. I know he played for the Sabres, and I remember him being a Panther now.

Yes. So you're three for three. Sabers, Red Wings, Panthers. So you're only halfway there. See, this is where now you reach for the like when in doubt there are certain teams you can always go to. But unfortunately, one of them is Detroit. I've already used that.

The other one is the Rangers. Everybody plays for the Rangers. some point. Yeah, Ray Sheper played for the Rangers. Yeah, absolutely. In fact, was he not acquired for like a dollar, yeah, but was he not, he was one of those guys that was like acquired for a dollar, right? Oh, was he in one of the Chris Draper club? Yeah, I think so, but I can't remember if he went Sabres Rangers or Rangers Sabres. It was one of those two teams. Anyway, yeah, Ray Shepard. You know what? I could picture him being a Winnipeg Jet. He's got, he's got jet vibes. I don't think he ever did play for Winnipeg. I'll double check that. And it's certainly not one of the teams

that he scored 20 goals for. You know what? He does have, oddly, he does have Jets vibes. He does. But oddly, no, he never played for them. Okay. I feel like the Jets and the Sabres of that era kind of had the same vibe.

So I'm not. Is it the Dale Howardchuck, Phil Housley? Yeah, like Scott Arneal level crossover. So, man, I don't. The other two I don't. Okay.

Let me help you out here. Yeah. This is crazy. So Ray Shepherd played for six teams in the NHL and scored 20 goals for each of them. So there wasn't like kind of a cameo in Winnipeg or a cameo somewhere where he didn't score 20 goals. Maybe that doesn't help. But you know what? I tell you, when I tell you these other two teams, you never played for the Leaps.

You're going to say, yeah. You know what? You're going to remember. Okay. You ready? Yep. So the one that he scored 20 goals for in 1999, Carolina Hurricanes. Okay.

25 goals for Carolina. Yeah, yeah, okay. I feel like that would have been, that must have been towards the end of his career, right? Yeah, exactly. He had the 50 in early 90s, so okay. And the other one was the San Jose Sharks. Oh, wow. Okay.

I did not remember that. Where he scored, how about this, Ray Shepard, 27 goals in 51 games for San Jose. Oh, boy. Okay, could you, maybe somebody could explain Ray Shepard's 1994? 96 season because he went he started in Detroit got traded in San Jose

then got traded to Florida and then was on that Panthers team that went on the miraculous run right which is that's how I remember him as a panther but yeah he got traded from Detroit to San Jose for Igor or Larianov so that you know that's pretty

solid one for one trade at the end of October and then gets stilt at the deadline so he only spends a few months in San Jose and still hits 20 goals. Yeah, 27 goals. That's what Ray Shepard does. He's here to score 20 goals and two bubblegum, and he is all out of bubblegum.

It's crazy. Anyway, there you go. There's your, this week in hockey history and your Ray Shepard tour of the NHL. Okay, there we go. That does it for this Thursday edition of The Athletic Hockey Show, a reminder that everything we talked about

will likely be moot by the time the show gets posted, so don't hold that against us. with the trade deadline on the horizon. But thanks for listening. As always, you can email us any question, comment that you have to the athletic hockey show at gmail.com. Leave us a voicemail as well at 845-4-45-8459. And right now you can get a one-year subscription to the athletic for $2 a month

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