The Athletic Hockey Show - Patrick Kane OT winner lifts Red Wings over Blackhawks in Chicago return

Episode Date: February 26, 2024

It’s Monday, so Ian and Laz are back on The Athletic Hockey Show to discuss Patrick Kane’s triumphant return to the United Center in Chicago on Sunday, how to decide if a jersey should be retired or not, NHL referee Garret Rank’s theatrical goal call during an Isles-Blues game, Gary Bettman’s upcoming fireside chat with Jets fans in Winnipeg, Connor McDavid’s 100-assist pace, and more.Before that, The Athletic’s NHL insiders Chris Johnston and Pierre LeBrun join the show to talk about CJ’s conversation with Jets chairman Mark Chipman, Pierre’s conversation with Stars GM Jim Nill, if the Devils are still looking for a goalie, the Flames as the team to watch as the deadline approaches, and when to expect teams to start sitting tradable players.Get a 1-year subscription to The Athletic for $2 a month when you visit http://theathletic.com/hockeyshow Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the Athletic Hockey Show. Welcome back to a Monday edition of The Athletic Hockey Show. It's Ian Mendez and Mark Lazarus with you for the next hour and change. And look, we're excited to have the insiders with us, Pierre LeBron, Chris Johnson. We're going to get them in a couple of minutes here, talk about the big stories of the weekend. Chris Johnson landing, I think last fair to say when we talk to CJ, it's going to be about Mark Chitman. That's the, like, every week there's like a big story in the NHL or big interview. Chris Johnson wins that award, right, for Lockedale, Mark Chipman last week?

Yeah, when you got an owner making not so veiled threats that you better buy tickets or we're leaving town, that's a big one. And CJ, not only did he get the interview, but he presented it very well and very fairly. And yeah, that was the talker this week, man. That's a big one. Yeah. I mean, you know, you've dealt with ownership in the past of different teams. And I've done it too in Ottawa. and boy, when an owner says I have something to say,

is there anything more interesting in pro sports than an owner saying, excuse me, I have something to say? Yeah, whenever, whenever, I don't know exactly how CJ set up this interview, but whenever you kind of get called into the office, so to speak, that's your intent is up. Remember a bunch of years ago when Sean Shapiro was covering the Dallas Stars and Jim Lights, the team president in Dallas called him and told him that, you know, Jamie Ben and Tyler Sagan, they just went off on this profane tirade about how terrible they were playing.

Like if you're talking to someone who is not usually talking to, like a general manager or a coach, if you're talking to someone above that pay grade, they have something to say and it's going to make some ways. Yeah. So look, we're looking forward to that conversation with Chris Johnson, Pierre LeBron, coming up here in a few minutes because the insider join us on Mondays. But I got to tell you, if Chris Johnson had the story in the interview of the week, Mark Lazarus, I think you attended the game of the week. And, you know, we'll get to some Chris Chelyos and the Jersey retirement stuff in a bit.

I just want to talk about, like, when Patrick King was sprung for that breakaway. By Alex DeBrickin, no less. By Alex DeBringkin, of course. But, like, everyone knew that that's going in the net, right? But there's no way that King gets denied on a breakaway in overtime in his return to the United Center, is there? Well, the funniest thing was he was,

I've never seen a more blatant goal hanging in my life. He was just cherry picking out there. He had no interest in going in the defensive zone. He's like either they're going to, like Seth Jones had like four shot attempts during that one shift. And Patrick Kane sitting there in a neutral zone going, either Seth Jones is winning this or I'm winning this thing. And he sat there waiting for it.

And he had so much time with so much ice. It was like a shootout. He did the slowdown move that he always doesn't shootouts. He had so much time for Peter Morazic to send. They're helpless as Kane Rucid. And the funny thing is, I mean, here we were a Blackhawks Red Wings game, and every single person in that arena was happy

the Red Wings won because of the manner in which they won. It was such a fun day and it was such a bizarre day, so many strange, nostalgic emotions going on, but it's been a long, miserable campaign for the Blackhawks, a couple of them in a row now. That was between Chris Chelyos' Jersey retirement and Patrick Cain's return. It was fun for Chicago to be the center of the hockey world again for one day.

You use the word strange, kind of a strange day. Was there anything stranger than Cindy Crawford scoring on the, you know, the kind of... Shoot the puck. Yeah, shoot the puck from center ice. And like her first two attempts were actually pretty good. Like she got her on the third one.

Her first two attempts were like pretty good. And did they say over the PA that she hadn't held the stick either ever or in a long time? I didn't hear that part, but she had good form. I mean, you know, it's funny because Theo Epstein, who, you know, former Cubs president and Eddie Vedder, the lead singer of Pearl Jam, and one of, I think it was one of Chris Chelyos's daughters also did it. And none of them came close.

And there was Cindy Crawford just right in the heart of it. It was a perfect shot. Did we get, by the way, I didn't check. Did we get the obligatory Down Goes Brown tweet where he was like, finally somebody named Crawford does something in that building? I think it was Pete Blackburn did. I think he's best Crawford in Chicago, hockey history or something like that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. He beat everybody to it. But what a fun, honest of goodness. What a, an emotion, just emotional day in a season, like you said, in a season that has been devoid of a lot of enthusiasm and energy outside of Connor Bedard, of course. It was almost like all of the emotions

from the past 10 or 15 years was sort of, and if you go back further than the cellios days. But like everything was just jammed, shoehorned into one Sunday after this. Scott Powers and I could have used these in separate weeks to spread out the stories a little bit to give us something worth writing about. It's got it butard, but it made for just this really,

really fascinating and fun day. But can we call the Red Wings Blackhawks rivalry completely dead now after this? Just completely dead. Like once the Red Wings, you know, scurried off to the Eastern Conference in the start of the 2013-14 season, it's been fading and you always have the guy in the Section 319 who yells Detroit sucks after the anthem every single game.

but there's no feeling behind it anymore, man. Chris Chelyos talked about when he got traded to Detroit. He got traded to Detroit. And he couldn't go, so his face in Chicago for years. And Detroit didn't want him either. It took him until the 20-0-2 cup before they accepted him. And he was wondering, like literally wondering,

where am I going to be able to live? They don't want me in Detroit and they don't want me in Chicago. Patrick Kane chose to sign with the Red Wings. And he got on his very first game back, more love than I've ever seen a player get in a hockey ring before. That rivalry is just dead. But the reason why it's dead is, and you alluded to it, is once Detroit, what's the term of you, scurried off? They scurried off.

Because if you think of every other sport, like the Bears of the Lions, Chicago and Detroit, they're in the same division in the NFL. The pistons of the Bulls are in the same division, right? Like the White Sox and the, yeah, White Sox and Tigers are in the same division. And geographically speaking, I mean, you could drive between the two cities. It's a four-hour drive. Four and a half hour, whatever. Yeah. And so it's so weird to think that they're not in the same division anymore, right?

Yeah, well, as someone who, I mean, I understand why the Red Wings wanted to be in the east because they're in Eastern Time Zone team. You know, the timeline is about an hour east of Chicago, about two hours west of Detroit. So I get it. It's better times for their fans. I would love it. Just as someone who travels for a living, I would love it if Chicago were in the Eastern Conference because the travel's easier, the times are easier, everything is.

But it's really ridiculous that two teams that close together are not in the same division. Okay. One last question for you, and you brought up time zones. I'm just curious here. I'm trying to figure out because I know it was kind of a weird time on Sunday. What time was the puck drop in Chicago on Sunday for that Chicago Detroit? It was around, I think it was like 510. It was scheduled for 510s.

It was right around then. The ceremony, the Chelsea something ran a little long. Normally Sunday games in Chicago are at 6 p.m. That's how it's been for decades is the Bulls get the Saturday night game, and then the Hawks get the 6 p.m. Sunday evening game. That's kind of how it always is. But I don't know if it was because of the TV, if it was because of the cellio ceremony.

But people were in their seats at 3 o'clock. Ceremony started at 3.10. Warmups were about 4.20, and the game was a little after 5. Can we normalize 5 p.m. start times local? Yes. It was great. I think Sunday 5 p.m. should be a normal time for a game.

I think the Blackhawks have been, you know, I've been giving them some credit this year. They've had a lot more day games this year, like actual full-blown matinees, like 2 p.m. starts on Sundays. And they have they called the best day ever, and they're very kid-centric. And they have like a kid Tommy Hawk running around

and kids doing the PA with Gene Honda, kids announcing, you know, the little skits in between games, between whistles. And it's really, I don't know why we don't have more day games than hockey in general. like Philadelphia always has like a noon game on Saturdays.

Like that's great. Like that's, you can't take your kid to a 7.30 p.m. start on a Tuesday night. If you live out in the suburbs, you're not getting home till midnight. So like we need more of these matinees. I wish,

I mean, the NFL has almost all of its games at noon and three o'clock and they seem to be doing just fine. So I'd like to see more matinees. Absolutely. Yeah. And I love the five o'clock. It's like, what's that term,

prevening? Prevening. Prevening. It's a prevening game. I like it because it's late. not that it's early enough that there's no morning skate so I don't have to come into the city twice in one game but it's early enough that I'm home at a reasonable hour.

I'm a big fan. Yeah, no, I love it. Love it. All right, Las, as always, time for us to start this week on a Monday with our insiders at the Athletic. It's Chris Johnson and Pierre LeBron and look, we're audio only, but Lasz, I feel like we need to fill in the listeners the fact

that Pierre Lebrun has a Hartford Wheeler's logo kind of in the back and a Montreal Expos hoodie. Like, this guy's living in the year and now. Yeah, this is just a man clinging to a past that no longer exist. The Halcyon days of his youth, it's almost a little depressing, not going to lie. I should be wearing a Quebec Nordic's hat, although the colors match.

But this is actually a hat from the Rocky Crest golf course that Chris has enjoyed over the years. I'm a member near my God. There you go, a little plug for Rocky Chris. Love it. Love it. So, listen, since we're talking about defunct teams of the 90s, it's an easy segue to get into Chris Johnston and your conversation with Mark Chippman because obviously Winnipeg Jets, they left in the mid-90s.

And now that fear is back that the Winnipeg Jets potentially, you know, could be on the move again. Some comments that were made to you by the owner Mark Chitman. So I want you to just kind of take us into that conversation a little bit, C.J. What, you know, what's that like when you know, when you're sitting down with an owner of an NHL team, you know something significant is going to come from this conversation. So how did you prepare for that interview? what went into it and what would you like to tell our listeners about that? Sure.

You mean, look, there's real worry concern in Winnipeg. And I think it's justified, you know, if you remember right from the start of the year, they had pretty small crowds there. And in fact, that's kind of where it started on my end. You know, I wanted to work on a story on that. Obviously, reached out to the team. And, you know, over the course of a couple months, you know, everyone gets busy, things happened. But that's how it came to be that, you know, I was able to go to Winnipeg and speak with Mark directly.

And, you know, I think for for them, it's, it's a difficult subject because on one hand, there's just the plain facts, right? You can, you can see that they have the lowest attendance in league, you know, except for for Arizona, which is obviously playing out of a very small college rink. And we would expect them to be 32nd as long as that's the case. But, you know, Winnipeg's 31st in attendance. They've seen their season ticket base decline each of the last three years to the point they're down 27% from three years ago. and given that they have pretty tight margins as it is with an arena that's a little bit more than 15,000 capacity, just not good enough. And, you know, in the face of those declining revenues, they've continued to spend money. They've upgraded the arena.

They're one of the teams that spending to the cap. Obviously, gave out long-term extensions to Mark Schifley and Connor Helibuck right on the eve of the season. You know, they've made a trade for Sean Monaghan in season. I mean, they're operating like every other team in the league, but they're just not bringing in as much money. And the hard, cold facts there, that just can't continue for an indefinite period. There's going to have to be a bounce back in what they're bringing in or make sure they're not wanting to think of this or they're going to have to cut some costs amount. How is ownership there? Like, what is their liquidity and everything?

Because we're talking about a team that was always going to have these razor thin margins, right? With an arena that size, in the city that size, they were basically going to have to have 100% attendance year after year after year to be a viable business. Like how comfortable are things up there? Well, I think that they can be cash flow neutral. In a perfect world, they can be bringing in enough to pay their bills. And, you know, Mark Chitman, who's sort of the chair of entry in sports and entertainment, is the day-to-day, you know, the hands on the ground, you know, for ownership. But his partners, David Thompson, who's, you know, from Canada's wealthiest family and, you know,

and, you know, people healed. And so I think that the way they view that, my sense from our conversation is it doesn't need to be something that makes money. I just think that it can't be a long-term money vehicle. To be fair, Mark Chittman didn't, there's no threats in our interview, but it's, it's sort of the unspoken part of this. If they can't find a way to turn around business and they're doing all sorts of things right now trying to pull on the leaders they can to, you know, get people back in the seats and in the stands. This is a team that's right up near the top of the Western Conference as well. I think that that's, that's where the concern comes in.

It's multiple years now where business is going in the wrong direction and, you know, the teams perform pretty well. I mean, you think that everything is there to be having full buildings and they're not. And so, you know, in the here and now, I think they're fine as an ownership to answer your question directly. But, you know, I don't know how long that lasts. I mean, it's hard to, we don't have a crystal wall for how long they'll be willing to do that. But I think they're focused in trying to find solutions right now rather than worrying about the doomsday scenarios. And I like that in that piece, Chris, that Mark Chippman talked about how their sales team has to better do, that this is not all about go out and buy our tickets. And we're going to sit on our hands that the Jets are acknowledging in that piece that, you know, they have to change the way they reach out the season ticket holders and keep them engaged.

I think that's important. It lies to your question. I mean, the Jets have the richest owner in the NHL. That's not about that. It's just because you're loaded doesn't mean that you want to lose money. that's, that's, you guys get. It's a shame because going to a game in Winnipeg, it's the best atmosphere in the league. Like, I've been to 38 something rings like that.

And I've never had as much fun as I have it a game in Winnipeg when that place is packed. You know, it's got the low ceiling, the small crowd. It's intimate. All the sight lines are great. The crowd is intense. They're all wearing jerseys. Like, I think anyone who's ever been there wants it to work there. And, but, you know, I guess it's just economic realities that, you know,

NHL tickets are really expensive. Well, I've just been a final point on Winnipeg before I, I've seen who did such a great job on this story, but I'm not an economist, as you guys may know, especially the way I'm dressed by it. But my understanding is, you know, that the cost of living in Canada has gone up higher than South of Oregon, the U.S. since the pandemic. And there are real-time challenges for families that go beyond prioritizing the ticket. I'm not just talking about Woodivaker.

I'm talking about throughout the country, the cost of groceries, cost of gas, everything. And so I'm sensitive to that part of it too, though, just seeing, you know, that, you know, maybe renewing your season tickets isn't prior to number one. And again, I'd be devastated, honestly, if the Jets had to move again. I don't think that's going to happen. But I'm just saying, yeah, point that. That are other things in life right now. And I'll say this. The backdrop of this discussion is Gary Batman is going to Winnipeg tomorrow.

And so, you know, I'm interested to see because there's, you know, this story, you know, generated a lot of blood, especially. in that marketplace, you know, what the commissioner says. He's going to do, he's going to do an availability of local media. I'm sure this will be the main topic that it's put towards them. It's just the health of the team, the future of the team, and those kind of questions. And, you know, I really know what Gary's going to stay there. But I can't imagine he's going to paint a rosy picture either because, you know, the truth is that the numbers sort of tell the story.

I don't think there's any, there's no camouflage going on. There's lots of reasons why they're here. but, you know, the building needs to be full long term for that team to have the chance at success. You know, Pierre, CJ mentioned that it's been a pretty aggressive few months for the Jets ownership. They sign Shifley, they sign Halibut. They trade for Sean Monaghan. They're trying to win a division title. They're right up there against the Dallas stars who are, you know, to me, one of those five or six teams in the West that you look at,

legitimate Stanley Cup contender. You had a chance to connect with Jim Nill. What's your sense there? Are the stars going to do something aggressive and big? We've seen Vancouver do something. We've seen Winnipeg do something. Is Jim Nill going to do something? Yeah.

And what I love about that in you is that Jim Nill, you know, it's just such an honest guy. And he said, hey, the players dictate what you do at the deadline. The players have told us to go out and do something. So they are going to be aggressive. They're trying to be aggressive. You know, he obviously wouldn't get into names, but I believe he's already made an offer to Calgary and Chris Tanov. He's looking at right shot D-Through. the league. If he doesn't get to Annive, you'll try and land someone else.

And they're all in. They, you know, they're in this window where, you know, they went to the cup final in 2020 in the bubble. They, you know, they went to the conference finals last year, lost in Vegas. This now is about setting up your team to take multiple cracks at it because of the randomness and the parody of the league. You can't just say, well, we're going to go to the final every year. It doesn't work that way. But you can certainly set up your team to take multiple shots at it. And Dallas Fields are in that window. They want to add.

Again, right shot D would be the priority. But the other thing I want to touch on is, and I've been caught myself believing this narrative as well, but everyone looks at the top of the Central and says you better win it to avoid the two-three matchup between the other two teams. Yes and no, and Jim Nill was like, you know what, come on, every matchup is hard. And his point is that, you know, you could win the Central, but if you're not number one seat in college, you end up across the Oras or Vegas or L.A. Kings in the first round, it's not really that easy, no matter what that happened. So, yeah, obviously Dallas would love to win the Central over Winnipeg and Colorado, and that's going to go down right to the wire between those three teams.

I think we've overworked the import of that. Yeah, I'm always fascinated by the goalie market this time of year because everyone always needs goalies. There's always teams on that kind of periphery of the playoff picture that need goalies, but teams are always so reluctant to trade for goalies or give up much for them because it takes them longer to adapt to a team. Is someone like New Jersey, are they still in the market for a goalie? They're still, there's seven points out right now of a playoff spot. Are they still going to be aggressive and active?

And is someone like Markstrom available? Someone like UC Saros? What does the goalie market look like right now, guys? You know, they made a real pitch in New Jersey to try to get Jacob Markstrom. I'm not sure if they're going to go back and try to revisit that. I know they've called on Jake Gallaud. I know earlier in the year, we're talking about John Kevers. I think that the contract that's attached to him for three more years.

on this one, it's a little scary in New Jersey. You know, I would not be the least bit surprised to see them make some kind of move in that area. Probably where it's a little uncomfortable, how much, you know, the gap is widened between them in a playoff spot right now. But I just think that there's still an opportunity for that team. I mean, they haven't been healthy throughout the year. It's just, it's been a strange year. The way it's gone missing Dougie Hamilton for most of the year, obviously Jack Hughes missed time.

I know he's back now, but isn't the version of himself where he's at his best at this stage. but, you know, I still think that there's enough on the line where I would think that the Jersey will be one of the teams that that's reasonably active here before March 8. Yeah, my understanding is they still have interest in Jacob Markstrom, but whether or not they can solve those differences that they have with the plan is about salary retention and what the salary retention would cause. The thing about the Devils guys is that I think it's still important for them to fix their goal heading, even if they don't make the playoffs. In other words, if they trade for a guy like Markstrom, he's got two and a half years left on his deal, that would be a good move even setting up next year. So that's why I would make sense. The difference is maybe they don't go land a big rental with the money they could use for Doug Hamilton's LTIR cap it

because if they don't think it's realistic, they're still in it. I think they're still in it. And the reason they're still in it, I don't want to get radioed here and get Flyers fans after me is that I'm just still not convinced the Flatch are going to make the playoffs. And so if the bottom falls out from that three spot in the Metro, someone's got to finish third. Now, it could be Philly.

Let's give them credit. They have been an unreal story all year. But if it's not them, then is it New Jersey? Is it Pittsburgh? The Islanders are struggling again. You know, that's the reason alone why I think if you're the devils, I don't think you're ready to give up in my mind. And it's fascinating to me.

There's so many teams on the bubble, like a Pittsburgh, like in New Jersey. We don't know which way they're going to go. But is Calgary the team, guys, that everybody's looking at? Is everyone looking at Craig Conrad here in the next 10 days saying, what are you going to do? We've been looking at them all year. The only one who's made an impactful trade this season. I mean, obviously, he's had other teams in the other end of those deals. But, you know, it's just felt like they've controlled the market all year because

it's such as they had those UFAs, but Craig Connery has also been very clear that if they didn't sign them, he was trading them. So, you know, we haven't been having to gauge, well, how close is Calgary in the wildcard race? Because they actually have, you know, remained on the fringes of it. But, you know, these are moves that that organization decided it was making if they couldn't send the players. And so many of the other teams around the league are.

are almost just waiting until March 4th to see where they're at and then they're going to have to make a call. And you're right. And I think that that's partly twofold of what's held up to trade market is one team has the most desirable players that are clearly available right now. That's Calgary. And a lot of other teams are waiting and wondering if they should be buying, selling, sitting on the fence. You know, it's a late breaking market. I still think there's lots of opportunity for some fireworks. But if we go back to last year, there was already significant trades made within two weeks of the deadline. and here we are 10 days out, and it's still very, very quiet compared to what you'd expect. And I think what, at the end of the day, you know,

it's impossible to know this on this side of it. But what you need to know in Calgary is, where does ownership stand on what's going on here? Because it's easy for me to say this because I don't know these kids. But the Calgary planes aren't winning the stand in the cup this year. I think we can all agree on that. They could make the playoffs. I mean, the 8th in the West seems like someone needs to grab it.

but if you know you're not a two-cup contender and you know you don't want to lose guys for nothing like you did with Johnny Gujaro. This is where ownership has to tell their first time GM Craig Conroy the bigger picture of Trumps here and now. But I don't know if that's the case. I mean, it may be that for Murray Edwards,

the owner making the playoffs is a pretty big financial deal for the Calgary Flames, even if they buy out in the first round. So these are the real conversations. I talked about this with a couple of other teams this week about the flames. I mean, it may not be necessarily

that you can do the same, which is wanting that first round playoff gate and you do what's right by your team big picture wise. I mean, for me, it's a no-brainer. I trade all of my UFAs and just say, hey, we lost Johnny Guzbo for nothing. We need assets here.

But it's, you know, get why it's a tough conversation. Okay, so we saw Jake Gensel is obviously out until after the trade deadline. Are we in the window now, guys? We should expect to see some of the names that are on these trade boards. start to be put into some bubble wrap here. Like, hey, we're going to pull guys out of the lineup just to make sure we protect them.

Do we anticipate that happening? And who are some of the players that we might think, okay, their team's going to pull them out of lineup this week? Start where we left off. Look out for Calgary. I mean, I think for sure, maybe not games tonight and tomorrow, but by the end of the week, we'll be in that zone, absolutely. Once you're within a week of the deadline, and it's a week from this Friday. You know, I do think that this weekend will be on full alert every time.

where you're seeing those bubble teams or teams that fall out. And, you know, Gensel's instructive. I mean, Pittsburgh was fortunate that his injury is more significant. It looks like he'll be ready to return by mid-March. And I think they'll be able to trade them as a result of the injury he had. But still, you know, elsewhere at this time, it's a little bit nervy if you know you're going to sell. So I would look at the San Jose, the Anaheims. I mean, I know these teams don't have tons and tons of players, but certainly Anaheim, I think,

has two or three players that are pretty high interest guys like Adam Henrique, maybe Ilya Lubushkin, Sam Carrick, you know, players like that. And, you know, by this weekend, I think that we'll probably start to see players held out just, you know, to be safe as those trade conversations maybe take on more urgency. You know, it's an interesting question to be at. I mean, you know, I've talked to another team about this. And with Chris Tanna, you know, what you love about the guy is what would, what I think is giving claims management, you know, holding their breath every game. because he's a massive shopker. He'll sacrifice.

He'll put his face in front of a puck. I mean, the man is a warrior. But of course, you risk him getting injured right before you might cash in on him. But the reason the planes have been holding out at least as of yesterday,

they still hadn't got someone to put a first round fit down on the table for him. They've got offers. They just don't have offers for it first. So they're waiting, way to waiting to see if they finally get their price. At least that's what I think they're doing. But the double-edged sword of risking injury is unbelievable, especially with

the player like that. So it's fascinating. What about your teamie and the Ottawa senators? I mean, I know that the senators have held talks with several teams last week, Oterosico. I think the price seems, sounds like a first round pick plus a second asset to get in on that action. We'll see if that stays there closer to March 8th. But again, with him, senators are suddenly playing well. Do you sit him next weekend when you're a week out to protect the asset? Or do you know, or, you know, does this mojo man for the centers right now? So what are these next 10 days like for you to? Yeah, you're just walking around with a portable charger at all times for your phone?

And like, is this better or worse than the last week of June first couple days of July? Worse. It's worse. Because, you know, at least when we're going into free agency, it's kind of predictable. I mean, obviously there's lots of information to gather ahead of time. but the gun fires on July 1st, and most of the signings happen within six hours. There could be a trade at midnight tonight.

So this is a time where you just don't make any plans, if you know what I'm saying. This isn't a time to go visit your friends or family. We just put her head down for 10 days and get to March 8. Yeah, I mean, listen, part of it, I've been not this longer than Chris, and I've learned to be a little more chill about it. And I got to run my daughter's hockey practice tonight,

regardless. And if I miss a trade, I miss a trade. I'll aid it. But you can't put your life on hold. You know, you do all you can. Try to stay connected, but, you know, only comes first. Hey, well said. Hey, a quick question. You guys have referenced. You guys have talked about, you're both with TSN and you do the television stuff. And there's a group chat you've talked about with Darren Dregor. Is that, is it just the three of you on that group chat? Is Duffley in the group chat? Like, who's in the group chat here? Oh, you can't trust Datsy. Fine. You can't have Duffy in there.

It would all be San Francisco 49ers references in there. And he'd be talking about his brand new golf clubs. He gets a new set every week. You know, it can't have Duffy in that chat. Come on. There's actually two group chats. There's one with just Pierre Daron and I,

and then there's a larger one that has Bob McKenzie and, you know, occasionally some others from the outside. But the one that we mostly use is Pierre Daron and I during the season. But right now, because it's all hands on. Bobby Max in the mix, too.

Amazing. Bobby Margarita, back at it. All right, well, guys, it's going to be a really interesting week. We're looking forward to it. I'm sure by the time we connect again next Monday, there'll be some trade, some more stuff. So we look forward to following your coverage. Thanks for this.

Have a great week, and we'll hit you up again next Monday. All right. See you guys. All right. And I love, by the way, I love the idea of Chris Johnson and Pierre LeBron. They admit openly there's multiple group chats there. Right? Like, there's the secret one, the real one, which is just Gregs and the two of them.

and then there's the larger one. What a difference that makes as a reporter, too, to have some support. Like, when I was at the Chicago Sun Times, it was just me and I'm on an island. I'm desperately trying to break anything over the national guys, and I'm all hopeless and by myself. Now at the athletic, I got Scott Powers at least,

and we are constantly texting, slacking each other. I heard this, I heard this, can you follow up on this? You got a guy on this. It makes life so much easier when you're chasing news to have someone who's also chasing that news that you can share information with and not worry about getting scooped on. What an advantage that is?

And, you know, just for our listeners to understand, like, so we use the platform Slack, which is just, you know, if you're not familiar with it, it's pretty standard messaging app for, for businesses. And we have an NHL channel. And this thing is so useful, like just, and I won't say who it was, but like the other day someone just put into the chat, me, does anybody have a number for, I think it was Jacques Lemaire? And boom, right away, someone's like, yeah, here you go.

And it's, it's an amazing community where if you, if you, if you just pick any random person in the in each other. You're like, does somebody have a number for Michelle Goulet's, you know, whatever? And they're like, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's always some like random dude from the early 80s who's nobody's ever heard of and immediately someone's got a number out. That Slack Channel is the greatest resource in the history of hockey writing. It's a Rolodex.

Has anybody chatted with Bernie for Durko lately? And it's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, here you go. It's awesome. But, you know, I want to have a little chat with your lives because, you know, we talk. talked about the Patrick Kane return, and that was sort of married with the Chris Chelyos Jersey retirement. And it's an interesting debate, isn't it? I mean, Chelios, I mean, if you think about him, where did he play his best? Probably Chicago, right? Like, where was he at his peak? You know, but he also played almost as many games in Detroit, you know. He played one third of

his career in Chicago. That's it. One third. And, you know, he won a Norris trophy in Montrose. He won a Stanley Cup in Montreal. He won a Stanley Cup, a couple of Stanley Cups in Detroit. And, you know, he was very good- Chorus trophies in Chicago. I mean, he was great in Chicago. There's no doubt about it. So how do we determine whether or not somebody should have their jersey retired?

Is it unique to each franchise? Is there like a set of rules that you think everyone should sort of loosely follow? What's the way to go here? Well, that's the discussion we've been having in Chicago for a while now, because for years they were super stingy about it. Like you had to be cream of the crop Stan McKee to level player to get your name up there. And then last year, they retired Marion Hosa's 81. And look, Marian Hosa might be my favorite player I've ever watched play hockey.

I love watching Marion Hosa play hockey. He is great. He was deserving first ballot Hall of Famer. But his best years came in Ottawa and Atlanta, right? Like in Chicago, he was filling a role and he was amazing at it. But is he one of the greatest players in Blackhawks history? he's in the Hall of Fame, not for what he did in Chicago so much. I mean, that's all part of it, but he spent most of his career elsewhere.

But once they opened the door for Hosa, how do you leave off the other six three-time champions? How do you leave off Brent Seabrook? I mean, obviously Keith, Kane, Taves, they're all going up there, right? But how do you leave off Seabrook now? How do you leave off Nicholas Jomerson, Patrick Sharp? Does Corey Crawford get up there with two? And now that you've decided that, you know, the Hawks release these guidelines when they announced the Chelyos one, or was they announced the host of one where you got to be, you know, in the Hall of Fame,

or you got to play a thousand games with the Blackhawks or, you know, made special contribution, extra weight given to Stanley Cubs. It's all guidelines, not hard and fast rules. But with these rules, Doug Wilson's 24 has to go up now. Steve Larmer's 28 absolutely deserves to be up there. He's one of the best players in team history. And all of a sudden, you're going to run out of numbers, right? When they put Marion Hoss up there, it opened the door for so many numbers.

and it creates this great discussion of like, what merits Jersey retirement? Is it statistical? Is it championships? Is it a Hall of Fame career? Is it just being beloved? Like what gets you up there now? And it's a fascinating discussion because people get really mad about this one.

Like really heated. Well, and I think it's unique to each market, right? Like I cover Ottawa and Chris Neal and Chris Phillips have their numbers retired. And people externally look at that and they laugh and they chuckle and they're like, oh my God, those guys, but they both played over a thousand games. And so I looked this up last and I said, you know, how many guys, like just played their entire career, played more than a thousand games and played their entire career with one

Canadian team in the expansion era. So let's go back to the 60s. You know how many guys it is? I think it's five. And Neil and Phillips are two of them. the Siddins are the, I believe, two of the others, and Bob Ganey. And that's it. That's it.

The thing about Chris Neal is, yeah, we all, I remember when that was like, real Neil, you've been in his journey. He's beloved. Yeah. Like, and in my mind, I feel like that should be the defining characteristic, right? It shouldn't necessarily be statistic. It should be just someone that fans adored and love to death. And like, that's who they want to see in the rafters when they go up.

Like, like the Islanders, they've retired some jerseys that are. like, really Clark Gillies? All right. That's interesting. He's loved. Absolutely beloved. He was a huge difference maker on championship teams. It really should be market to market. Now, this is, this becomes like a Hall of Fame debate, the Hall of Fame versus the Hall of very good, right? Like maybe you should have a ring of honor and then you have the Jersey retirements for the best of the best. Maybe in Chicago, Marian Hosa and Chris Chelyo should be Ring of Honor guys and Keith Kane and Taves should be Jersey retirement, right? Like, there's, but, but once you've opened the door, like, I don't know how you,

you can't put that genie back in the bottle, right? Like, this is just going to be chaos now. So I'm going to go through a couple around the league. Like, Ken Danico is a great example in New Jersey. Like, Ken Danico is not one of the best five or six players in devil's history. But I think you could agree. He like personified the devils for how many years, right? Yeah, so I'm okay with Danico.

I'm going to give you a couple of other ones. You tell me what you think. Okay. Raymond Bork, Colorado. Oh, absolutely not. Come on. Last, 94 regular season games with the abs. Put Kimo Tiemann's 44 up in Chicago. Are you kidding me? Get out of here.

Yeah. Like, listen, I don't deny Raymond Bork's impact on that 2001 Stanley Cup. I don't deny it. He was a big part of it. But to retire his jersey, I think that's a bit much. He's not, like, Milan Hayduke deserved his jersey retired. You know, Sackic, all of those guys, I don't know about the night. Like, I wonder, like, how to Avs fans, I'd love to hear from an Avalanche fan on this one.

How do you feel about Raymond Bork's number retired by your franchise? I feel, and this is where the cellios and hosa ones come into play. I feel like the bulk of your career should be in that city. Like, you shouldn't, I mean, like, Jeremy Ronek gets a lot of, like, people wonder why Jeremy Ronex 27 up there. He only played, like, 500 games in Chicago. They were amazing games, and he was beloved. And, you know, he's a video game superstar. The reason I love Steve Larmer is because I used to always play with Chicago when I was a kid on NHL-93

because they had that line of Steve Thomas, Jeremy Roanick and Steve Larmer, and you could just beat anybody with it. Like there's guys that just kind of feel like that Jeremy Roanick always feels like a Blackhawk to me, but most of his career was spent elsewhere. You have to spend the bulk of your career in a city to have your jersey retired, in my mind. Yeah. Yeah. Look, Ottawa was going to have this debate at some point with Eric Carlson.

Like, you know, do they retire his number? Do they not? To me, I could see the argument. He won two Norris trophies and all that. But like, okay, so Raymond Bork, I think we can agree in Colorado. That one's a little bit, you know, maybe a little bit out there. So I'm going to spring some trivia on you here. And not to put you on the spot, but I'm going to be very transparent and tell you,

I did not know the answer to this. So I'm not trying to make. I do not have DGB's encyclopedic knowledge. I don't think DGB would get this either. Although, unless he's written a column on this. The Florida Panthers, Mark Lazarus, have three numbers retired in their franchise's history. Can you name them? Roberto Luongo.

Yes, number one. Good God. Scott Mellonby? Scott Mellonby? No good. No. Paul Bore? No.

Really? I'm going to stop you here and let you know that the two other numbers that are retired are not for players. Oh, God. Is it like Bill Tori or something? Bill Tori 93. Does that have a bow tie on it? Like the island? Yeah, it should.

And how about this one? Wayne Hizenga? Wayne Hizenga, 37. If you play for the Florida Panthers, you can't wear 37 because it's retired. Now, I look this up. I was like, why on earth? Was he worth $37 billion or something?

How does that happen? Yeah. Well, he was the original owner of Blockbuster, wasn't it? Blockbuster video, wasn't he? So I don't think he's worth 37. Well, anyway, apparently, I guess he was born in the year 1937, and his favorite number is 37, so they decided to retire 37.

So I don't, like, can we, as we talk about the, you know, the idea, you know, what constitutes a Jersey retirement. Can we stop with the, you know, like, I don't know, like, I don't know, like owners, should they get a number of them? What about coaches? What about coaches? Like for years, I always assumed there was going to be a Joel Quenville banner at the United States. That's obviously not going to happen now. But, you know, we used to joke that there should be a mustache on the, on the banner. But, you know, there are certain coaches like Al Arbor. But you're not retiring a number. Like what number would you retire?

No, well, no, obviously they shouldn't have numbers attached. But I think there's a way to honor the great builders, you know, there's a builder's wing of the hockey Hall of Fame. And I think teams are are well within their rights. And I think it's a good thing to recognize. people that helped build their franchises. But no, there shouldn't be some random number attached because it was his favorite number. That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. What about the Seattle Cracken?

Do you know what the first number was that they retired? I don't. 32. Because they're the 32nd team. Yeah. Oh, my God. So I'm going to think about your tone. They should retire a Michael Bayes jersey

with a big explosion instead of a number. So I'm taking it by your tone. Oh, wait, no, it's Jerry Bruchheimer. I got my direct. Bruchheimer. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Brookheimer, the explosion expert. I take it by your tone.

You're not a fan of, of, because the Seattle Seahawks did that too. Didn't they retire like? It's silly of the number 12, the 12th man. Yeah. Don't the wild have like 18,000, whatever the capacity of their rink is or something? There's a few of those around for teams that don't have like the history of other teams that they want to have, they want to have some kind of banner. so they put up some cheesy stuff.

I know I know everyone jokes about Nashville all the time that they'll put up a banner for everything, but I feel like that really should be reserved for actual people and not, you know, vague concepts. What? Yeah, we've retired this number conceptually. It just looks, it looks amateur. Like, you can recognize your fans.

You can call them the 12th man or the sixth man, whatever you want to call them, the extra attacker. I have no problem with stuff like that, but putting a banner up there. It's like you might as well retire the mascot jersey. Like I, it just, it just feels a little corny to me. Yeah, you're right. The Minnesota Wilde retired number one, as because, because they have the number one fans.

I think, I think that's why. Well, it's number one for the fans. This is like every time I walk into like an initial locker room and there's like, you know, these like cliche sayings in the wall or like, you know, commitment, you know, work ethic. And it's like, it's like, it's. Guys make millions of dollars. Do they walk in and go, oh, yeah, I got to be committed today because someone put it on the wall. Like, this pro sports are so cheesy.

Oh, man. It's like a college book. It's like, you know, PJ Fleck in Minnesota, like, row the boat. Like, what kind of a grown man, like, grown adult looks at any of these things is like, oh, now I want to work harder because you said a weird cliche. I don't understand that at all. Yeah. Um, yeah, you know, the only one, and not to take this in a, uh, you know, I am going to, you know, I am going to, I'm going to point this out, not to take this in a serious direction.

One that doesn't have anything to do with a person or, you know, a player on the ice. Remember the Vegas Golden Knights just before they had their first ever game last, there was that awful shooting. And so they retired the number 58 to represent the 58 victims of that. And that one I understand. Like that one, I think it carries. The Blackhawks retired Keith Magnuson's number when he was killed in a car accident. Yeah.

I mean, he wasn't the kind of, I mean, he was beloved player, but he wasn't like the kind of guy who gets his jersey retired. And there already was a number three retired with Pierre Palat. But, you know, nobody batted an eyelash at that. You know, when you do something emotional like that, I don't think anyone's going to, you know, it's not the same as putting like best fans in the league up there. Where do you come down on like, I know the Maple Leafs, for example,

for a lot of years, they would honor numbers, right? They wouldn't necessarily retire them. Well, the Leafs have so many numbers up in the Rafters right now. Yeah. They'd be in triple digital. right now if they were on the ice if they actually adhere to that. Oh, yeah, because there's like Half Day and Charlie Conacher and Mahavich, right, and all those guys. Oh, my God, that Half Day banner used to sit right in front of where I sat.

And they thankfully, I have changed the banner and put a nicer picture of him. He had this scowl on his face that would just, I swear to God, he was staring into my soul and Hap Day was coming for me, man. I'd go to sleep that night, worry that half day was going to get me. How could you have a scowl on your face if you're, name is half day. It's a short form for a happy day, isn't it? Day. Why are you so angry? Hang day. Scary day. Oh, man. Man, half day. That's one of those great names. Yeah, there was some hockey names. We always make fun of the Western Canadian names

that are all the Jackson's and Flaxons and Waxons that are coming out of Western Canada now. But back in the day, man, I don't know what, like, you know, the Rem Pitlick came through Chicago recently. I'm like, that guy should have been playing in the 1920s. Rem Pett. That's just a 1920s hockey name to me. Oh, boy. I want to, you know, look, we had a fun conversation here debating jersey numbers. I want to have one more. I don't know if this will turn into a debate or whether or not you and I will agree on this.

But NHL referee Garrett Rank on, I think this was on Thursday night. So we haven't done a pod since. So it might be a little bit old for people. But last, end of last week, I'll set the scene and then we'll play the audio. and we'll have a little fun discussion here. But at the St. Louis Islanders game in St. Louis last week, there's a goal that is scored, but it looks like it might be a high stick. So it has to go to a video review.

And, you know, St. Louis fans are hoping that the call is overturned. But have a listen. Here is NHL referee Garrett Rank announcing the call in St. Louis. You're not going to off. Oh, that's some good description there from Gary Ray. You're not going to like this, but the call on the ice stand. So, I see, like, some people saying I love it. I love the color.

I love the personality. Give me more. I see other people saying, you can't do that. Where does Mark Lazarus come down on this? Everyone wants to be Wes McCauley, right? Yeah. I loved it when I first heard. I thought it was hilarious.

And the more I thought about it, I'm like, we don't need this. let's not make this the ref show. This opens a rabbit hole that I don't want to go down. I don't want to have every referee trying to be a stand-up comic out there. I think that would get old quick. I think players in the heat of battle are going to take it the wrong way and not the good-natured way it's intended. I feel like it's a can of worms we don't need to open.

So I guess for the people that thought it was great, and I think I fall on that side. I think I kind of like it. I like some personality. Here's my thing. If we have proof that these referees are capable of completing sentences, why can't they talk to reporters after game and explain themselves when they make calls that decide games?

I like that. If they talk to us, they can say whatever they want on the microphone, because that's what we need is some kind of accountability with the officiating. I thought about this. You know, I probably put way too much thought into this. I was like, you know, I like this. I like, I like, he's like, like, you're not going to like this, no goal. But now let's go to the other side.

Let's say the call is overturned and it's a good. good goal. Garrett-Rank can't go on the microphone and say, you're going to love this. It's a good goal. Agree? Yeah, because then you come across as a homer, you're catering to the own crowd, right? Yeah. So now I realize, this is what I mean. Like, this is wrong. It's one thing for West McCauley to, like, go, like, fighting and like make the punching face, you know, and so, like, that's kind of like, once you start, like, taunting one side of the crowd and not the other, I think that's just asking for trouble. Do you remember back in the day, And it was like a college football game where the referee. Given the business?

Yeah, given the business. He's like, personal file, 69, offense. He was giving them the business. He played with that. That's like the water boy where like the reference that he's breaking down all the like the karate moves that the player was using on there. Let's just tell me what happened. I'm just, I'm just torn because I do think I want to see personality. in the game.

Did you like it in opening day this year where the referee, like, I should have looked up who it was. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Welcome to Connor Bedard to the NHL. I thought that was terrible. I thought it was so cheesy. And like, okay, the league is already showing favoritism to this kid because they're not doing this for anybody else.

Hey, Sid, welcome back for another season. Connor, welcome to the NHL, man. Thank you. Okay, guys, it's time. Let's have a great game. But I felt like that was, okay, this is an iconic faceoff because it was Crosby Bedard, wasn't it? Yeah, no, it was a really cool moment. I don't know if the ref added to it.

That's all I'm saying. What I want from referees are, like, I'm okay with them talking more. It was Kelly Sutherland. Okay, it was Kelly Sutherland. I would like to see more explanation. Like, you know, you see that more in the NFL now where they kind of break down or in the NBA, it's great. Like, they walk right up to the camera and say directly to the TV audience why they're making a call. especially in like the final two minutes of a game.

Yeah, I'd like to see NHL referees, instead of saying after further review, the play was offside, I'd like them to say, after further review, number 20's toe was still on the outside of the blue line, whatever, some kind of like actual detail. I'm okay with that. I don't need personality. I want information.

And like, even the NHL situation room, sometimes they send out an email that's just completely worthless. It just says, after review, the play was deemed off sides. I want a full explanation as to, you know, to borrow a football term, why this wasn't a catch. Las needs names. I do. I want details.

I want an explanation. I want an explanation on goalie. I wouldn't mind an explanation on goalie interference more. Like to me, to me, offside feels fairly black or white. Feels that way. Whereas blue or white, I suppose. Blue or white, yeah, exactly. Oh, hey.

But goalie interference. Yeah, tell me like we, But this goal stands because the player was pushed into the goalie by number 17 of the black team. And, you know, like, give me details like that. Oh, man. By the way, for the podcast listeners, Lazz while he was doing that, had his hands on his hips like he was like a super like a superhero explaining. Okay. So you know what?

I think you might have convinced me that Garrett Rank's little spieler. It's not an egregious thing. It's not horrible. I just, it was funny and I liked it. But I worry, like, if we let that happen, what's the next step of that? And it's inevitable, the sliding, the slippery slope of that concerns me. Do you think the league reached out to him? Do you think Garrett Rank was going to the airport that night and his phone rings and it's the

212, NHL head off? He's like, hmm, wonder what this is about. Don't you ever do that again? This is the no personality league. You're not allowed to have fun in hockey. And I suggest you lose this number. This message will self-destructive. Yeah, I, like, yeah, I, I, I bet you the league.

Somebody said something to him. Like, there's no way he'll do it again, right? Like, if we were, if we were guessing here. Like, again, I, in the moment I liked it, I respected it. I thought it was funny. You know, it's like when, you know, playing to the booze is always good schick. You know, that's what Gary Bettman's made a career on playing into the booze. I got no problem with it, but it's just like, I don't like the path that it leads to.

What was the Gary Bettman quote? I think or sound like do you remember I think it was a trade that he announced and he was like you're gonna want to hear this that's right you're losing some energy but I have two trades to you want to hear the two trades Gary Betman can get away with that because he's been doing that shit for 30 years yeah and the fans the fans love it because the fans want to boo him and they want him to acknowledge the booze Gary Betman can pull that off to some degree I'm not sure random Rando ref can do it uh real quick quick, because Chris Johnston references, Gary's going to Winnipeg this week on Tuesday. And they call it fireside chat with Batman. So first of all, when somebody says fireside chat, my initial thought is, these guys are rolling in wearing sweaters, right? Can we agree they're going to be wearing nice sweaters? There's his FDR sitting there with his dog Fala, his feet and a blanket over his knees telling the country it's going to be okay. That's all going to be.

Gary, Batman's going to be okay, Winnipeg. The only thing we have to fear is you not buying tickets. So the way that this is going to work is season ticket holders and fans can submit questions in advance, which is code for we're going to vet the, you know, one out of these questions. That's cowardly stuff right there. How do you think this goes over? Like, like, if you were, if I gave Mark Lazarus the power to, you get to tell Gary Betman kind of how to shape this, like, what's the messaging?

Is there any way this can come off well? Is there any way that this doesn't add gasoline to an already, what feels like an already raging fire? Well, I mean, the kind of questions he would get is, are you going to give us the kind of leeway you've given Arizona who stole our team from us in the first place? And that question is not going to get picked and is not going to get answered.

I don't expect anything concrete. I don't expect a lot of substance. It's going to be a lot of, you know, we love Winnipeg as a market. We want it to make it work. There is, you know, and Gary will do his little thing where he says, you know, you know, there is some on us on the ticket paying public. It has to show up for a team to have success.

But it's going to be kind of like gentle poking in the ribs. It's not going to be some kind of ultimatum. And he's not going to say the Jets are staying in Winnipeg in perpetuity no matter what. He's not going to give anything that concrete. How much would you pay to actually see, like you get all of, you had access to all of the questions that were actually submitted versus what God asked. Well, that's what I'd love to see like a real town hall where he's just answering fan.

Like whenever you see like those small town town halls like in parks and recreation or something, I'd like to see, you know, him face real questions from, I mean, obviously, you know, he takes all the questions that come at him when we're talking to him at like, you know, the All Star Game press conference, the Stanley Cup final press conference. He enjoys it. He enjoys the back and forth. He enjoys the, you know, the parries and the thrusts of the battle. But it's one thing where he's getting respectful questions.

from reporters versus emotional questions from fans. You want someone to go like full Leslie nope on him. Right. Or what was it? Patton Oswald, who just went on a like a 12-minute improvised Star Wars rant. Yeah. I want Gary Bettman to face a 12-minute Star Wars question.

You imagine. Anyway, so that's coming up on Tuesday. I'm sure there'll be fallout for that. My only prediction, last sweaters. Gary Batman, Mark Chipman will be wearing very nice sweaters if it's a fire section. I just assume Gary Bettman like slept in a suit. He's in a suit 24 hours a day.

Was he not in a sweater? Boy, I feel like he was in my guy. Is it a sweater over a shirt and tie? Yes. Yep, yeah, it's a sweater over a shirt and tie. Like, I want to see him wearing like a hoodie. God, I can't even imagine him. Who would you rather see wear a hoodie?

Gary Bettman or Lou Lamarillo in a hoodie? Oh, my God. I think it's Gary. I think it's Gary. I want to see casual Gary. Like every now and then, you know, when you go to like, you cover like a Stanley Cup final

or an All-Star game, they have like these little media parties. And you'll see Gary, and he's kind of letting his hair down a little bit. And he's a little more casual and he can have a casual conversation with him. So it exists. It's there.

But he is, you know, he's, he's the face of the league and he presents himself as such. All right. Tell you one, last one. Why don't we wrap up with a, well, our final segment here brought to you by BetMGM, the exclusive betting partner with the athletic

I want to throw something at you last because I actually didn't realize this until this week. Somebody pointed this out. Kind of MacDavid is on pace for 100 and basically 102 assists. And in the history of the NHL last, only three guys have ever hit 100 assists in a single season and they are exactly who you would think they are. Wayne Gretzky, Mario Lemieux, who did it multiple times and Bobby Orr. So first of all, I want to ask you, do, I mean, you. Do you think McDavid gets, he's got to stay healthy, he's already missed a couple games earlier, but he stays healthy.

Do you think he gets to 100 assists? Well, I think he needs, he needs, what, 32 more assists in 27 games? That seems like a piece of cake for a guy who routinely has four or five point games. So if he's healthy, yeah, he's going to get to 100 assists, which is, you know, do we start talking about 100 assists the way we talk about Austin Matthews and his 70 goals? Like, is it, it's rarefied air. I think there's been more 70 goals seasons than 100 assist seasons. Well, yeah, and certainly there's been more guys.

Like, if you look at the 100 assist club, as I mentioned, it's the Holy Trinity. It's Gretzky-Lamew-Or. Like, that's it. There's nobody else. You look at the 70 goal club, and they're all legitimate, you know, high-end. If you got like Alex McGilney in there, I mean, there's guys that, you know, spike a season like that from time to time. Bernie Nichols is in there. So do we hold a hundred, like, I mean, I guess is there an argument to be made that a hundred is,

assists because it's even more rare, should be treated with more reverence? No, the second assist thing kind of cheapen it a little bit. Yeah, I mean, yeah, I mean, the fact that you can get an assist for a goal that you really didn't have much of a hand in sometimes. And McDavid handles the puck so frequently that when there's a goal scored when he's on the ice, he probably touched it either last or second to last, right? So I don't think it'll ever be held in the same regard as 70 goals because to score a goal, even if you're getting a deflection, like you're the one doing something.

You're taking an active. And there are times that the secondary assist is the reason the goal is scored, and there's certainly times where the primary assist is the reason the goal scored. I'm not trying to diminish the accomplishment. It's an amazing accomplishment if he gets there, and it deserves all the recognition you get. But the general fan base will never look at 100 assists the way they look at 70 goals, because goals are sexy, assists aren't as sexy.

And are you coming around or have you come around or where are you at with the Austin Matthews Park Trophy conversation? Like still too early for it. No, he's right there. Like, where are you at when it comes to Matthews? Boy, that got turbocharged in the last week or so. I remember we talked about it last week just off the top of our heads.

And now it's all anyone wants to talk about. It is no guarantee that Austin Matthews is going to get the, I'd still say he's not a front runner. I still think that Nathan McKinnon, Connor Hellebuck, and yes, Connor McDavid are very much in that conversation. it might be ahead of Matthews right now. If he gets to 70 goals, he's going to get a lot of votes. There are a lot of people that vote based on statistics.

That's what they do, and he's going to have the gaudiest statistic. But you're also going to have Nikita Kutraub with 140 points or something like that. McDavid is going to be in the 130s. You're going to have a lot of gaudy numbers on guys that are just more valuable to their team right now. And again, not meant to diminish Austin Matthews. We're in an era of just extraordinary accomplishments in the NHL right now. And Austin Matthews getting 70 goals will be an incredible thing, but it won't be the only incredible thing that happens in the league this year.

Well, think about it. One of Matthews, McDavid, Coutheroff, McKinnon, Hellebuck, at least one, if not two of those guys are going to be, well, yeah, two of them will be left off the list of finals, right? Yeah, I mean, in the last couple of years, it's getting harder and harder. You know, sometimes number one is clear cut. Sometimes it's just Connor McDavid. He's got 150 points.

It's going to be Connor McDavid. but it's getting harder and harder to come up with that list of five year after year because you know, you used to be scrounging for a fourth or fifth pick. In the years where Jamie Ben's winning the scoring title at 89 points, you were like, well, who's the fourth or fifth best player? I don't even know. Now you've got 10, 11, 12 guys that can make legitimate cases to be on your ballot, your five-person ballot, and you're just ripping your hair out trying to decide who to leave off.

It's going to be like that this year for sure. Yeah. And listen, we'd love to hear from you. Hit us up, the Athletic Hockey Show. At gmail.com, let us know your thoughts on the MVP race is Matthews at the top of your ballot, middle of the ballot somewhere in between. Like, where's he at for you? Way in on anything we chatted about today. Winnipeg Jets or chat with Chris Johnson and Beer LeBrun.

Where do you come down on Jersey retirements? All of that stuff. You want to see Lou Lambella wearing a hoodie. Whatever. Whatever you want. For the record, Bet MGM has Austin Matthews at the favorite right now at plus 150. I thought you were going to say Bad MGM had Lou Lamarillo

or Gary Bettman first to wear a hoodie. I want a parlay where Gary Bettman wears a hoodie and Lou Lamarillo grows facial hair. Yeah. And plus one million. The three, yeah, exactly. The three-legged parlay is Brian Burke wears his tie done.

And they do that. I have seen Brian Burke in a tie tie before them. Yeah. It has happened. Yeah, I love it. All right. Well, it's a great place to leave it.

Again, the athletic hockey show at gmail. If you want to send us a note, we would love to hear from you. And we'd love if you love the five-star rating and review if you are enjoying the show. Thanks for listening to the Monday edition of the Athletic Hockey Show. The Shons are back at it on Wednesday. I had a chance to listen to their show last week with, as they called him, F. Sean Corrado. Frankie Carado was great with them. But it's just Sean and Sean back at it on Wednesday.

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