The Athletic Hockey Show - Patrick Roy named Islanders head coach, Corey Perry signs with the Oilers, Shane Pinto back with Sens after suspension, celebrity ASG captains revealed, and more

Episode Date: January 22, 2024

On today’s Monday edition of The Athletic Hockey Show, Ian and Julian welcome The Athletic’s own Peter Baugh off the top of the show to discuss Patrick Roy becoming New York Islanders head coach over the weekend, if the Isles can realistically make the playoffs, how Roy and Lou Lamoriello can coexist, and much more.Plus, the guys talk about horrible hockey moments they don’t want to relive, Corey Perry signing with the Edmonton Oilers, Shane Pinto returning from his 41-game suspension, the celebrity All-Star Game captains, and the Jets-Bruins tilt tonight in Boston.Subscribe to The Athletic Hockey Show on YouTube: http://youtube.com/@theathletichockeyshowGet a 1-year subscription to The Athletic for $2 a month when you visit http://theathletic.com/hockeyshow Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is The Athletic Hockey Show. Welcome to it. It is a Monday edition of the Athletic Hockey Show with Ian Mendez and Julian McKenzie with you to kick off another week in hockey. If you're watching the video of this and you're wondering, where the hell is Ian? What is that mural in the background with like, you know, it looks like, are you at the Museum of Modern Arts or something? I'm at a hotel room in downtown Montreal. home. So that is why the backdrop is way cooler and funnier than it would be in my suburban Ottawa home. Montreal is already a romantic enough city. So to see, I've seen the full

mural. I'm not sure how much you can see it in the split few that we have. It's a very romantic setting. I was about to say you were on like a couple's vacation or something. That's right. Me and Arpin are a little getaway in in Montreal. Well, listen, I don't know how you your wives would feel about that. Yeah, that's a good point. Well, I'll tell you, I'm in Montreal, Ottawa's here, but I think the game of the week, Julian, is Thursday in this city. That's the return of Patrick Waugh. And we didn't see this coming. I mean, when I saw that, I actually had to do one of those double takes with, can I just check, who tweeted this? Like, is it one of those eight follower accounts? Like, nope, it's the Islanders. They have announced Patrick Waugh is in his head

coach lane look lane lambert out wasn't a huge surprise i don't think a lot of us we all thought he was kind of on the hot seat right patrick waugh in i didn't see that coming and i love it because i'm here for maximum chaos and i think patrick waugh he's entertaining he's a really good head coach he's been good at the junior level he was good for his season in colorado this is going to be a lot of fun in my opinion this this is why we all know i do different shows and stuff. And sometimes on certain topics when I talk about them with Chris Johnston, he comes at it with a more

rational view that's very much on the ground. This is how this came together. The insider knowledge of how stuff comes together. I love discussing stuff like this with you because you're just like me. You want to see chaos and you probably thought of it the same way that I

did where you looked at it and you're like you're you serious like this is happening. You probably thought about you remember what his first game coaching in the NHL. Pushing the glass. Yeah. Pushing the glass and getting at it with Bruce Boudreau.

Do you remember when he started pulling the goalie with how many minutes left in the third? Four minutes left? Yeah. Even more time. Are you like me where anytime you see anyone pull a goalie with more than a minute left, you think, well, Patrick Gua, I used to do this. And now everyone else is doing it now. there are so many things in the short time that Patrick Gwell was coaching in the NHL that

it's fun to give a chuckle to and now that he's back of course the first inclination is going to be well what chaos is this going to bring is he going to be the Patrick that we've known of him from his playing days for when he was coaching when he was fiery and and very animated and energized behind that bench even getting into it with other coaches like And also the fact that it seemed as if the biggest reason, one of the biggest reasons why an opportunity for him didn't surface at the HL level, at least partially had to do with his need for control.

I mean, look at how we controlled the Ramport in the Quebec Patriot Junior Hockey League, head coach, general manager, owner, every single thing with that team. So the fact that he's willing to come back to the NHL after all this time off from coaching in the big leagues, and he is willing to just be a coach, and not won any player personnel decisions, or at least not for now anyway.

And for Lou Lamarillo, a man who's a stickler for rules and all that. And he even mentioned the press conference. You know, I don't want to talk about that time Patrick got the one up on me in the Stanley Cup final, but he said he was the guy. He was the only guy he wanted.

I just love it. I love this storyline. I think it's amazing. I think it's hilarious. And I can't wait to see what comes from it. Well, it's going to make hockey a lot more entertaining. fun in the New York area. And that's the perfect segue to bring in

one of our New York-based hockey writers. Let's say hello to Peter Baugh, who joins us here. And he's not wearing, oh, man, he's wearing old school Mariners hat. I love it. And Lions. Detroit Lions. Yeah.

We were hoping for Indiana Jones version of Peter Baugh. We'll go with this. Look, and we're going to get into the fact that now you cover New York hockey in a few minutes here, Because to us, that's really interesting. And I think our listeners would love to hear a little bit about the, you know, the transition for you. But you want to talk about seismic news in your market.

Boy, Patrick Waugh coming into Coatty Islanders, what was going through your mind? And how do you think that's played out here over the weekend? Yeah, well, it was the same thing you did. I saw, I have Twitter notifications on for Arthur Staples. And I are a great coworker. And as soon as he tweeted that, I was like, no. that surely not and so i like clicked on it and i was like yep that's that's really arthur and and and it was yeah kind of the same reaction you had of of like what the heck is going on uh pretty crazy

um definitely makes things a lot more interesting here in in new york um you know it's it's always kind of a shock when you see a coach firing even if you kind of know it's coming a shock to the system, but then to have the double whammy is like of, of seeing that it's, that it's a replacement of, and someone like Patrick Waugh, such a kind of like distinct personality in the hockey world is, is definitely surprising. What are your impressions of, I guess we'll call him Patrick Waugh 2.0? We've seen what happened the first time around when he coached. Remember, I don't know if you guys remember, he won a Jack Adams award.

Like, he did just come in, fight people, argue with people. He won a Jack Adams Award. He won the highest possible honor you could get being an NHO coach beyond the team accolades you can get with the Stanley Cup, obviously. But what were your impressions of talking to him this time around? In the short time, he's been head coached with the Islanders. And we saw the video of him running practice as well. Can you just kind of detail what that's been like just seeing him coach the Islanders? Yeah.

Well, it's interesting you bring up the Jack Adams Award because that was with Colorado, the team I used to cover. And I think one of the things that there's kind of some important context to go into with that award in his time in Colorado in general. And that's that the team that he made the playoffs with got exceptional goal technique from Semyon Varlamov. Arguably could have won the Vezna. He finished fourth in Hart Trophy voting. A lot of the underlying numbers for those Patrick Watt teams were not very good. and so that's just like I'm that's and the coach coaching could help them in despite that and there's also like he he could have helped with Varlamas having a great season so there's a lot of different factors but I think that is important context with the Jack Adams award because sometimes the Jack Adams goes to the coach who's goalie plays the best in a less least expected place um so that's one thing um two i i yeah it was my impressions of him yesterday where kind of it was like

you you you see the energy that that people talk about he's whistling he doesn't use an actual whistle he like he just whistles um he's whistling he's banging the stick like it was a very lively um it was a very lively skate i just moved here so i hadn't been to a lame lambert skate i think arthur had done to done islander stuff in the past couple of couple weeks. So this was actually my first Islander's practice. So I can't speak myself to the difference between those practices and this one. But I talking to other like other writers that were there, they were like, oh yeah, this is way different. And yeah, I think that was apparent. We'll see how it works. They won yesterday. So off to a decent start. But yeah, that was my kind of early impressions.

Yeah. And obviously, Peter, they make this move as Lou Lamarillo points out because they think they can this season, right? They're not making this move because they're thinking about two, three years from now. They're thinking of the here and now. How realistic is it, given the Eastern Conference playoff race, which is super tight in the wild card, super tight in the Metro, how realistic is it that you think the Islanders can get really back into a top eight playoff spot by the middle of April? Yeah, I mean, the thing is, is the Eastern Conference, like you said, it's kind of a jumbled mess. Like if the Islanders go on a heater and when eight games in 11, then all of a sudden they're probably right back in the thick of probably

in a playoff spot. And conversely, we saw this with Lambert. They were, I think they were in a playoff spot earlier this month. And then they go six, they are winless in six of seven games and suddenly making a coaching change. So I think it's entirely possible that they can make the playoffs. They've got a lot of really good pieces. They have an elite goaltender when he's at his best. They have Beau Horvatt, they have Barzal, they have Dobson. So it's not a roster that will necessarily blow you away, but it's one that you could see in the playoffs. It's essentially very similar team to last year. So yeah, it just kind of depends on like, do they get the new coach bump and how prolonged is it?

Or do some of the problems that plagued them with Lane Lambert kind of towards the end, do some of those creep back in? for what you know about patrick why and what you know about lu lamarillo how do you see those two coexisting yeah it's uh that's going to be interesting because i think one of the important things is that in his opening press conference waugh said that he um he he has no interest in in management in doing anything with um as like being the gm and we'll see if that changes over time or if he wants more say in personnel decisions. But I think having some, the fact that he doesn't want that, or at least says he doesn't want that, I think is big and will probably help them coexist. I also think that they probably are going to come at things the same way.

Reading between the lines of Waugh's departure in Colorado was I think he wanted them to be a little more all in on the present, whereas the front office with Sackick and Chris McFarlane had just gotten there really were, I think kind of wanted to take a longer term approach and maybe not fully tear it down, though they ended up having a disastrous season the next year. That's a different story. But they, instead of tearing, or they, they didn't want to maybe go all in on the present. They wanted to, and that was probably played into Wob leaving pretty abruptly at the end of his, his avalanche tenure. So I think that Lamarillo and Wobb, will be aligned in that I think both are going to be all in on winning right now.

Lamarillo isn't coaching for five years or isn't managing the team looking at five years from now particularly. He's he's trying to win now. And so in that regard, I think it's a partnership that at least in the short term could work. You know, you mentioned you had some terrific insight there on Patrick Wall with the Avalanche because obviously, Peter, that's the team you covered for a long time. But you've made the switch in the middle of the season to move from Denver to New York. And I got to ask you, like, how intimidating is that in the middle of the season?

Look, you had a great relationship, I think, professional working relationship with the Kail McCars and the Nate McKinnons and the guys they would know you when you walked into the room. And now all of a sudden, it's kind of like you're starting from scratch. So like, do you go up to Noah Dobson and be like, hey, Noah, I'm Peter.

And like, how difficult is that in the, you don't even have training camp to work on these things? How hard is it to be parachuted into a beat in the middle of a season. Yeah, it's not easy. It was definitely the first, I've told people my first, the first game I covered was January 2nd,

Rangers versus hurricanes, I believe. And I had just moved, I'd moved on December 30th. So I had just gotten there. And it was like, the first time I, like, it kind of hit me that game that I had, was in somewhere,

a new place, a new city. And it was very exciting, but I think at that moment, really daunting. I was like, holy cow, this is, this is crazy. I can't believe that I'm here. And it is like, like you said, kind of a shock to the system of, I don't know the security

guards names. I don't know like the, I, everyone in the press box. It's just like a completely, it's a shift. And in a way that's a pretty dramatic. And so, yeah, it's been definitely difficult. I think switching midseason is not the easiest thing in the world. I think training camp is a good chance to kind of build some rapport with people. But, you know, it's a really cool opportunity and I'm really excited about it.

Definitely miss my friends and stuff in Colorado, but it's a, it's a cool, New York's a cool place. And I'm pretty excited about being here. It's one thing to be plopped into a new city and you have to worry about covering one team. You're in New York City and you, at least from what, I've seen from your coverage so far. You've had an emphasis on the Rangers. And now we're talking to you about the New York Islanders. You have to look out for more than one team in your new beat.

What is that like? Yeah, well, it's kind of cool in a way because I definitely think that like they were, the Rangers especially like at the start as I was getting settled, we're going to be just kind of to like for my sake as I'm getting adjusted, like focus a little more on them. But it's cool that I'm in a position where if there's a big exciting story happening, like hypothetically, the Islanders hire Patrick Waugh or something, I could just like essentially be the person to go help on that story and work on that. So I think that's a really cool thing. And I enjoy and appreciate that opportunity. So it's definitely a different thing, like kind of

juggling three different teams and I'll have some devil stories coming in the coming weeks as well. But I enjoy it too. And I think it's something that work-wise, I'm excited to see what I can do in this setting and hopefully it goes well. This is a realistic possibility. And I want you to tell me what your headspace would be. We're going to fast forward to June. It's the Stanley Cup final. It's the Rangers and the Avalanche. What's my, well, one, I'll be very tired because I remember the end of the last Avalanche cup run and I was kind of running on fumes. So one, I'll be very tired. Two, I would have a ton of fun. I think it would be really cool to, like, I would know both teams pretty well. I would say I would

be able to see all my friends in Denver, even away from hockey, just like hang out with some buddies on off days. And yeah, it would, it would certainly be, yeah, I think that would be like, that would be a ton of fun for me. I'd really enjoy that. One more to your question for me, best restaurant you've eaten at since you've moved. That's a great question. I had, actually, with Arthur Staples and Christina Ledra, our editor, we went to, what was it called? I got a, a Rubin at this place. not too far from from Madison Square Garden. I'm trying to remember the name of it, but it was,

it was really good. And I quite enjoyed it. I really liked food. I have a lot of opinions on food. Not everyone agrees with my opinions on food. But I have had some great food since I've been here, and I'm excited to keep exploring. And if anyone has recommendations, I am more than willing to listen to them. Give us a controversial take.

Give us a controversial food take. I think cheddar cheese is highly overrated. Dang. I'm not a big cheese person myself, so I don't feel away about it, but I'm sure there are some athletic hockey show listeners who are screaming at their phones right now. Well, I don't have the food takes, it's hard for me to just pull one, pulling out of nowhere. They come organically based on what I'm,

what I'm feeling. But that's as good as I can do right now. I thought you were going to go full Michael Scott with the Sabarro. Best slice of New York pizza. New York slice. Yeah. Okay. Before we let you go,

you know what? I do want to give you, like leaving a beat is tough because not only do you create relationships with the players and management, there's something between you and your readers that there's a wonderful connection that we've, you know, if you've been on a beat long enough that you're able to establish and there's a great

community. And I want to give you an opportunity to Peter here on the athletic hockey show. Just to talk about that community. Denver and how hard it was to say goodbye because I know that in covering a Stanley Cup and in writing a book and doing all the coverage, you formed a great relationship and a bond. And I want to give you an opportunity just to expand on that and maybe say thanks to the people in Denver. Yeah, it was really challenging. And I appreciate you giving me the chance to do this. But I think that, yeah, like you said, you build a lot of relationships while you're there, both with people in the team, people around the team.

And the readers. And it's, it's really a special thing. And it's really gratifying when you see kind of them. Like when I announced I was leaving, like I got a lot of a lot of really heartfelt comments and messages. And that meant a lot to me. And so yeah, it's definitely a place that that's the first place I covered hockey and a place that will always be really special to me and will continue to be. So I am extremely thankful for them. I've seen that the questions about what our coverage will look like in Denver, that's a bit above my pay grade. I don't fully know. But I really appreciate, yeah, everything that that community meant to me and the opportunity

to tell some stories that I was proud of. And I'm sure our paths will cross again. Maybe in June, like you said. Exactly. Exactly. That's what Rangers Avalent sounds like a really cool stand like a final on the surface. having you in the middle of that, knowing both of those teams,

I mean, if you weren't subscribed to the athletic already, you should. And hey, maybe don't count out Patrick Waugh's Islanders. Maybe we'll have a... Yeah. Imagine, you could say, say a Peter Baugh reunion at the Cup final. Imagine a Patrick Waugh

Stanley Cup final reunion of Islanders. Oh, yeah. Jeez. Delicious, delicious, delicious possibilities. All right. Hey, listen, Peter, thanks for dropping by the Monday pod. I know you're a big emaculate grid guy when it comes to baseball.

Yes. So when you're wearing that old school Mariner's hat, I always think of Alvin Davis. Ooh. That's, that's, that's the guy. Start studying that, that page. I, uh, I think I

introduced a lot of the, a lot of our staff to the Immaculate Grid. You did. It's gotten, it's gotten big since then. It's gone mainstream. Yeah. Exactly. It's got its own subchannel on Slack, I think.

Really? I think there is some kind of channel where people I know there's one there's like I think it is because there's one guy I was talking to about Puck doku on that channel so I'll hook you up people. Yeah I also like I would love to be I know the PuckDoku this is my shameless pitch to have have them let me make oh I don't like I'll send him a note I know the guy too yeah I'm gonna send the guy a note oh yeah I literally was at a flames game over the weekend and I met Taylor in person and we like chopped it up during

intermission like I we have a selfie and everything wow I think I froze for a second but that if if it didn't come my excitement didn't come through that's that's pretty amazing I just I just assumed you were just frozen in in disbelief at how cool we are knowing the guy who created book doke you know Taylor yeah yeah awesome yeah I want to I want to find a way to get Greg Keeler, the one shift guy from that story I wrote onto an emaculate. Oh, man. Brilliant. There you go.

I love it. You've been running a lot of heat, man. Between that story, the Steve Correll piece as well, a lot of people listening to the show should really check out Peter Ball's work because he does a great job for us. Thank you. I appreciate that. All right, there he goes. Peter Ball covers all things New York hockey now for us at the Athletic.

Thanks for doing this, Peter. And I'm sure we'll chat with you again real soon. Sounds good. guys. There we go. Always a good segment when you have not one but two Michael Scott references or Steve Corel references. It's a good segment. Good second. It's good stuff with

Peter Bach. Love the office. Great show. The one episode I can't ever watch again is Scott. Scott's Todd. Are you like me in that? I have a Scott's t-shirt. Really? Yeah. The baby blue Scott's T-Tots T-shirt. Oh my God. So Michael Scott let you down on your

education too? Geez. Oh man. But he got me a laptop battery. A lithium laptop battery. It was so good. Oh man, we should do a duet of, hey, Mr. Scott, what you're going to do? Oh, man. What you're going to do to make our dreams come true?

True. That's so good. Oh, the cringe. It's coming back. Oh, man. Literally, like, I can't think of any other, like, there's so many other, like, I can think of sporting moments I would never want to watch again.

That might be, like, the only TV moment where I'm just like, I can't watch that again. It's too cringe. I can't see Michael Scott let down all those children. I can't do it. Okay. What's your one hockey moment? You couldn't.

I'll tell you what it is for me because I'm a bit older, so I have a little bit more runway to work with. Sure. 1998 Nagano Olympics. I feel like that's the last time in a hockey. I truly cheered for an outcome because a couple of years after I got into the industry and now I don't cheer in that same way. I left my heart in Nagano.

Julian, like that shootout, watching that and getting up, I was in my last year of university and all of my roommates, Sean McAdoe came to my house. A young Sean, a young Ian in our early 20s at three in the morning, four in the morning, to watch that game and to see Hachick stop every shooter in the shootout, it haunts me. I don't think I could rewatch. I don't think I could do it again. That's my, that's my Scots tots. That's my cringe-worthy.

I can't do it. every time I read about the 98 games and how just Canada fumbled the bag essentially, just so painful, so painful. For a hockey moment, I know for sure I can't go back to the first one that comes to mind. Probably that first round series between the Canadians and the Bruins in 2011 when I think it's Nathan Horton who's the overtime winner. Absolutely. The puck shot from the point. I think it deflects off of Jeff Halpern goes in the net. Yeah, that's probably up there for me.

I'm trying to think if there's another one. I definitely can't watch again. Carrie Price getting injured in the playoffs against the Rangers. That's that's painful. I think it's that Bruins one. Oh, God. Look at this. There's the cringeworthy Michael Scott.

So those watching on the YouTube stream, shout out. to producer Chris or producer Danielle, whichever the two, they put up a screen grab from that infamous Scott's Tots episode. That's Todd's. Their advice is just beside himself. Good Lord, man. This production team just amazing, man. You guys are so great what you do.

Yeah, amazing. All right. So we'd love to hear from people in the comment section as well. What's your kind of Scott's Tots, cringe-worthy? I can't do that again. Can't watch it again. Julian's going with Nathan Horton in 2011. Is that the game that P.K.

Shuban tied it late to send it late to send it over time. And I remember watching that gate and running up and down my house and just be so happy. Be like, yes, he tied it. And then for the Bruins to, for the Bruins to just rip my young heart out, that was tough. Yeah. That was tough. But hey, I mean, they went to overtime. It is what it is.

I don't remember how the Canadians were supposed to be that year. But you know what? The Canadians were the toughest out for the Bruins that. year. I will, I will, I will die on that ill. Yeah, because I'm pretty sure I don't have it. Well, no, I mean, the the, the, the, the Canucks probably were in the Stanley Cup final. Nah, that game seven,

the game seven in that Stanley Cup final, not nearly as competitive as the game seven or game six. Or game six. Like, I connects had him on the brink. Canucks had them down two nothing in the series, right? And then if if memory serves me, Boston after they beat the Habs, they swept Philadelphia.

And then I think they played the lightning in a seven game series, right? And then... That was, yeah. And I think that Nate Horton scored the game winner in game seven against... I want to say, because I think I was at the game... I think I know, I was at the game. And I think Boston wins game seven one-nothing on a Nate Horton third period goal. And Stephen Stamcoast, a young Stephen Stamcoast, Julian, in that game, if memory serves me,

blocks a shot with his face, comes back with a cage. And I remember being in the Tampa locker room afterwards and seeing Stephen battered and bruised. That was Guy Boucher took him to the brink. And like you just felt for him. Like you don't, you know, you just fell for him. And, you know, his time would come down the road.

But like I distinctly remember the game. I think it was a third period goal from Horton too in game seven. Your brain is working right now. It's a Nathan Orton goal. period, David Crouchy, Andrew Farrant's getting assists on it, a 1-0 game. Yeah, you're you're you're, you're, your brain is working. Your brain is braining today, Ian Mendez. Okay, we do have a couple of people who have their cringe worthy moments here.

Yeah. We got one saying James Reimer. Now, why does Reimer get the blame on this? It was 4-1. That was actually in 2013, but, but, but, are we putting the blame on James Reimer here, Eskil? I mean, it's tough to put it on one person for that. I remember watching that game at home and watching that third period and that

Nassum-Cadry goal. And I'm thinking, okay, it's over. Like, the Leafs were going to do this. 4-1. Like, they should have won that series. And then the Bruins just came back. Like, it's hard to, I thought like Reimer led in four bad goals. The Bruins just kept pressing.

And the Leafs just, I, like, wow. Like, of all the collapses, maybe he's, someone will be cruel enough to do this one day, who's going to rank all of the postseason crashes from the Leafs over the last like 20 something years? Because that might still be... I think his name is Goddose Brown

and I think he does that every year. Doesn't he? Yeah, you might do that. But like that 2013 one with like the Canadians one in 2021 is right up there. But the Bruins one is also like, they might be fighting each other for first. You know what though? I think Toronto

fans would tell you that the 2013 one, in hindsight, was a good thing because they blew it up. The Kessel, Leopel, whatever, they said, hey, we can't do it. And maybe if they won that series, it would have created like a fake mirage and they would have kind of stuck it out. The ones that I think are really hurtful to the Leafs are the Columbus series in the bubble and Montreal in 21. Because they have legitimate Stanley Cup aspirations. That was the core. That was the group, right? That was, let's get this done.

So I think if you're ranking them in the kind of last 20 years, as painful as 2013 was, I don't know that it was the most damaging loss. I don't. I think 2020 and 2021, 2021 in particular. The path was right there for them in 2021. Yeah. By the way, I just want to commend you, Ian,

for talking about the Toronto Maple Leafs and actually providing some analysis. Oh, yeah. Last week, we got that. You do have a reputation. You do have a reputation of not liking the Leafs and not necessarily providing analysis on this team when given the opportunity. So I really appreciate you taking the time for our listeners and viewers to do that. I think it's very important for a team that doesn't get that much coverage to get that analysis.

We have to serve an underrepresented group of people who listen to. Yeah. It's Leaves Stance. Hey, you know, easy segue here because you know who was on that Habs team in 2021 that took down Toronto? that was Corey Perry. And, you know, Corey Perry back in the news cycle this weekend. And I think it became pretty obvious. I don't know how you felt about this, Julian.

I don't know how the listeners felt about this. But the minute we heard, I don't know, earlier this month that Corey Perry kind of had the blessing, maybe that's at the right term. But like, he had a meeting with Betman and there was no hurdles standing between him and a return. I thought to myself, this is the start of him coming back to the NHL. Like those stories don't drop for nothing. And so Corey Perry over the weekend and finalized on Monday,

agrees to a one year pro-rated deal, essentially for League Minimum with the admitted oilers. And this is less than two months. It was November the 30th that Chicago, they put out that statement, right? And well, November 30th was Perry's statement. Anyway, we're less than two months away from this whole thing happening. And at the time, Corey Perry admitted he had problems.

he needed to seek help, he seek treatment. There's a great question to be had here about transparency. And who has a right to know about what Corey Perry did in Chicago, why the Oilers signed him? And to this point, I haven't been given satisfactory answers. I don't know that I personally am the person, like, do I have to know? Do the fans need to know? To me, I think every employee in that, this is where I come down on it, Julian.

I think every employee in Edmonton that's going to be in direct contact with Corey Perry deserves the right to know what he did in Chicago, what he's done in between now and then to get better, and they should be able to say, I like this, I don't like it. That's my, that's, if you're asking me who needs to know, that's the answer for me. I don't know where you come down. If you feel like all of us need to know, and that's a fair answer to. That's a good question. I still think everyone in Chicago should know what's going on

and I still think of how players like fans It's a good question It depends on what happened But that depends on what happened And I don't know if this is wild to say it But a part of me thinks that The lack of transparency of what happened with Corey Perry Sort of kind of lays a foundation

For him to get back in the NHL Because if we knew more about that story about what happened with him, then how would it be perceived that teams would be interested depending on the severity of what happened? But because it's a very gray area, no one really knows what happened, and he was able to take time for himself

and deal with whatever demons he needed to deal with, it was up in the air. You can't say, like, oh, well, Corey Perry shouldn't sign with this team because we know of X, Y, Z. We don't know the full story. Maybe Emmetton does, and maybe they felt that whatever they learned from whatever happened, was enough to bypass or was just not enough of an issue in terms of signing Corey Perry.

For me, I'm not completely surprised that we're in this position because, look, it happens in professional sports where guys, no matter what issues they go through, if they're talented enough, if they can provide some kind of value to a locker room, they will get that second opportunity. And I know on this show we've discussed, you know, hey, well, what's going to happen with this future? What's going to happen with the Hockey Hall of Fame trajectory that he's, may or may not be on.

I don't know. That whole time I just kind of felt that someone, particularly the cup contending team, was going to look at Corey Perry's experience, was going to look at the cup that he won, was going to look at the goals that he had scored, the individual accolades, a triple gold club,

and say he is going to fit in our room. And, you know, it's funny that a team like Edmonton, who took a chance on Evander Kane when his time with San Jose came to an abrupt end. he was considered a reclamation project, and there was a lot of discussion about whether or not Eminton should be signing that player.

And while this year has been a little bit of a weird one for him, for the most part, on the ice, it's worked out well for him with the Emmington Northern. So the fact that Ken Holland is once again going down that well of saying, hey, you know what, this guy's available. Something's kind of off there with what this player's going through or what he may have done. We don't know.

I think the fact that we don't know, again, just lays that foundation, where it might be a little bit more palatable, I guess, in the public view, or maybe that's not the best word, but it's much more difficult to discuss the Cory Perry situation because we don't have all the facts out there present. And look, I don't know either. And there have been all the rumors, and I'm not going to get into them and dignify them. But essentially, if you're the Oilers and you're thinking, hey, this is our best chance

of winning a Stanley Cup, we're able to defend, we're able to score goals. And Cory Perry's out there. they obviously felt it was a move worth making. And on a 13-game winning streak, it's not like they are struggling here, right? Like they won 13 in a row, and they bring them in. You know, Julia had a great comment in here earlier

where Julia says lack of transparency could be for good reason, still with really shitty outcomes. And part of that, like, and I think, like, let's walk through why there might be a lack of transparency here. One might be, there's other people involved in this, other employees that maybe were involved in this,

that were for Chicago, and maybe their identity needs to be protected. We have to be very mindful of that. We should be mindful of that. Absolutely. Absolutely. You know what I don't like, Julian, and this is really in the hockey world,

but this is something that I think extends beyond hockey, which is non-disclosure agreements. Okay? Non-disclosure agreements, you know, tend to wrap things up in a cone of silence. And I understand lawyers get involved and say, we're not going to allow things to get out.

I'm okay for non-disclosure agreements to exist for things like, you know, corporate something that's proprietary to a company. What I don't like are non-disclosure agreements concealing bad behavior, toxic behavior. I don't think that's right. And I'm not suggesting that the Corey Perry situation is that. I'm just saying sometimes transparency is needed to understand what's going on and whether collectively, maybe people are suggested, well, Chicago overcorrected here

because of what happened down the road, or in the past story with Cal Beach. And okay, maybe they did. But if that's the case, here's what I come down on that, Julian, is I think one of the worst things Chicago did was allowing that guy, Brad Aldrich, to go on and coach other teams and be involved with other teams.

Like to me, if you knew what he was about and you didn't throw up a stop sign, that is egregious, that is awful, that is indefensible. And so as I look at this situation, here's where I come down on it. I think it behooves Chicago, Kyle Davidson, whoever, to go to Edmonton, to go to Jeff Jackson and Kenny Holland and say, listen, this is what we found.

Here's all the information we found. How that, if you want to sign him after reading our internal investigation, Be our guest. Be our guest. But I just kind of feel like if you want to correct the rights of the wrong, be accountable, be transparent. And I'm not even saying be transparent with me and you and the media, but be transparent with the potential organizations that are going to hire this person. Let them know exactly what it is. Because if I'm an employee of the Oilers and I'm going to be in direct contact with Perry, I think I have a right to know. But that's just me.

That's just me. when you put it like that, I have a hard time thinking that Ken Holland doesn't know what he's getting into. Yeah, and if they know. I have a hard time thinking that Edmondson, at some point, whether they went to Kyle Davidson, whether they,

I mean, I'm sure they, they went, I mean, I'm sure Corey Perry probably has this side of the events. Maybe they did go to Kyle Davidson. I don't know. I have a hard time thinking that they just saw that he was available and just

said to hell with it. We're just going to sign him and not do our due diligence. like I don't know and I can understand there could be something to be said again to my earlier point about getting a guy like a Vander Kaine and just saying you know what like the court played out the way that it did he's available we're going to sign him anyway

I could I'm I can totally understand that other side of that argument but yeah I think in this case the oiler said you know what he's available he's out there we're going to sign him and they really just thought of the on-eye stuff which I mean I'm sure they considered the off-eye stuff too that's my ultimate point I think they know They have to have some idea what's going on. I've refused to believe they have no idea.

But this is all about trying to double down on your chances of winning the Stanley Cup and thinking that a guy like Cory Perry putting you in a bottom six role could make a difference. You know, it's also a segue into the Shane Pinto situation. I was in Philadelphia on Sunday as Shane Pinto made his return, Julian, from a 41 game suspension. That's right, 41 games. For something that we still don't know what he did. we do not definitively know what Shane Pinto did other than he was suspended for activities related to sports wagering. We can say definitively he did not bet on NHL games, right?

We can say that definitively. The league even said that. And so where I think this kind of ties in with a little bit of lack of transparency is like, does it, if we find, like, if we find out what the reason is for Pinto. And obviously it's not related to betting on an NHL game, right? Like, what is it that in your mind and in the fans' minds and in the listeners' minds, I want to hear from you. What would justify or warrant a 41 game suspension for gambling if it wasn't gambling on the NHL?

And I'm open. I don't want people to think that I'm coming in with a heavy opinion on this one way or the other. I just want to know what, like, Rafi, Torres got 41 games when he hit Jacob Silverberg in the head in, I don't think it was 2015. Julian, before that, Rafi Torres had nine run-ins with the Department of Player's Safety, nine, including four suspensions, three fines, and a couple of, hey, man, you better watch it.

Nine. He was a habitual line-stepper. We, I remember those days. Yeah. So I want to know is this like because sometimes I think I'm like covering Ottawa and being sometimes I worry that I'm too close to a situation. And I'm very mindful of that. So I'd like to ask you and I'd like to ask the listeners and the people was 41 games an appropriate punishment considering we don't know what he did. I mean, it's difficult to answer that question because we in the public don't know what he did.

the NHL has to have known what he did, and they must have felt, you know what, this is like a good compromise compared to a harsher suspension. Like I can't help but think that, like, if you're getting that, you're betting on games, maybe, you're betting on your team, you're betting on other teams in your division.

Like, something had to have happened where, like, recall, we know it's a gambling suspension, so some kind of bet took place, right? but if we don't know the full extent of it, seeing it at 41 games,

I remember when it happened, it was announced a lot of people were very much in shock. And the one thing I don't like, and of course, as a reporter, I'm not going to like it. But with the Shane Pinto stuff and even the Corey Pair stuff, you can lump it just for this one reason,

for not having the transparency out there, if we're not having the full story out there, or some kind of story out there, It leaves the imagination and the rumor mill and hearsay to just run rampant. And you have all these different stories that come out. And all of a sudden, you have to go to a press conference and tell everyone, no, this really stupid rumor that we all laughed at. I'll use the royal we as in the internet here. That was never true.

And it's disgusting that people would say that. That's one specific example. You know the example I'm referencing here. but like that's like the one thing I don't like but that's also because I'm someone who wants to be in the know and of course in my job I want to be in the know and teams may hear that and say well it's not really any of your business it's not something that we feel needs to be shared.

Yeah it's it's to me on that one on Pinto I would say the key people that need to know are now the his fellow players in the league. They need to know what he did that warranted a 41 game suspension, so they never do it. I agree with that, yeah. Like, like, but, but it's, it's. And players talk about that.

And players talk about like the gambling rules and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, it seems like they are. So, for a situation like that, he, Shane probably, unfortunately, ends up as a cautionary tale. Yeah. What not do. Whatever he did with regards to gambling. You know, but I think. were in this new era.

And I thought, like, Julian, it was, you want to talk about capital I ironic. As Pinto comes out on the ice on Sunday at the Wells Fargo Center in Philadelphia, the home bench, or sorry, the visitor's bench in Philadelphia, guess what the advertisement is on the rinkboard at the door? It's for Betway. Betway. I was literally about to guess Betway.

But also, you don't even have to look at the visitors bench in Philadelphia. Look at the stickers on the senator's helmets. Betway. We're bet 99. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And like that's what that's what makes it so interesting in the fact that on one hand,

what Shane did was warranted enough to suspend him for half a season for a gambling suspension. But we see a sponsor like a bet 99 or a bet way to have its place in hockey. And I'm not trying to stand on a high horse with gambling. if that's what people want to do, that is what it is. I'm not trying to do that, but it is a little ironic that it's played out the way that it did while knowing that gambling, at least through sponsorships,

has a high place in the league. Well, and I wrote a piece about this last week. I spoke to a couple of experts, including a gentleman by the name, a professor at UNLV by the name of Shane Krause, Julian. And he is an. expert on addictions, human behavior, and specifically gambling. And, you know, Shane Krause told me that it was 2018 when gambling was kind of, you know, they sort of took down the restrictions and allowed states other than Nevada to get in

on bed. And that's really when sports betting went next level and you started to see all the ads. That was in 2018. And his point was, you know, they poured hundreds of millions of dollars into that realm, but they didn't throw money at research for what this could do to, you know, kind of figure out what dangers may lay ahead. And we're now at the five, six year mark. He's got a comprehensive study coming out in the spring. And he basically told me like the statistics are going to be jarring.

And here's where I come down on this, Julian. I think like whether it's the NHL or the NF, like last year, there was 11 athletes, Shane Pinto in the NHL. and then 10 NFLers suspended for gambling-related activities. So 11 pro athletes were suspended for gambling. And you've got to go back into like the Pete Rose of the 80s the last time we like this. So what's happening is all of a sudden we are giving young people access to mobile apps on their phone that allow them to bet. They could bet in game. And I'm not sure that we've done the.

enough work on education. And I'm worried that we have put these devices at the fingertips of young people. And I'm not saying that we shouldn't allow gambling at all. I'm just not sure that we've ever allowed it in this magnitude. Like Julian, when I was a kid, not kid, but I was 20 and I wanted to bet on an NFL game, I would have to like throw my sweatpants on,

march out of the house, go to a convenience store, fill out the little paper and be like, I'm going to pick Dallas to win over Jacksonville. And then Fred Freakin Taylor would run for 180 yards and I would lose my ticket. But whatever. It sounds like anyway. But I had to be intentional about it. I had to be super intentional about it.

Today, you could be a young person and you could literally have your fingertips. And it's dangerous. And so now when we are, the NHL is telling you. I mean, it could be. You're absolutely right if you're not doing it in moderation, but there are different gambling sites and places that will have disclaimers that will tell you to bet responsibly. There are commercials that are out there.

Like I understand the concerns that come with that stuff. At the same time, Shane Pinto is not, I don't know his age, but he's not 16 years old. He's a grown man who's making money. Yeah, yeah, but here's where all. He's got to know the rules. I'll disagree. Respectfully. Sure.

In that Shane Pinto just turned 23. And all of the players who got busted in the NFL all in that same age bracket, they all, this is, Julie, and you're kind of part of this generation where you've grown up with a smartphone attached to you. It's like a, it's part of your hand. I understand that. And I don't think we did a good enough job. We got you all addicted to smartphones. and then we kind of like, I can't believe you're the...

I just think that there should be more done on the education side. It's not enough to just say he should have known better. Educate them. That's where I come down on it. Educate them. I don't think you say anything wrong with that.

And ultimately for each league, it's on them to advise them on the dangers of it and knowing when or what not to do in those situations so that you don't end up like a Shane Pipp. Unfortunately, again, for him, he will end up as the cautionary tale for what not to do to get yourself in trouble with that sort of thing.

Ultimately, I think, you know, these are, these are, yes, they're young players and you call them kids. They're still old enough to be able to use their phones and know what they're doing. Like, Shane Pinto does have to worry about his mom checking his apps or parent or whatever relative or anything or an older person in his life worry about what's on his phone. Like at the end of the day, like he's old enough to know what's right and what's wrong. And whatever he did wrong, which kind of brings us back to the beginning of this conversation, we still don't know was the wrong loop. And he's learned a lesson. But okay, but that's the question.

Did he like, was there enough education to him? Obviously now all the players know, holy cow, whatever he did, don't do it. My question is, did he know that before? That's all. A good question. We don't know. He didn't. It's such a difficult question to answer.

It is. But I see what you're getting at two. It's very tough. Like, if we had, like, if we knew that he bet willingly on something, it would be a much easier discussion to have. I don't know. He should have been, if he bet on, I don't even care if it was one freaking NHL game to me, I would have said, you can go ahead and ban him for life.

I would have been on board with that. I really would because, excuse me. It explicitly says in the CBA, you can't gamble on NHL games. So I'm not going to sit here and give you the, you know, you need to educate them better on that. That one's common sense and it's in the CBA. That's common sense. You should know that.

But whatever he did was not common sense. I don't think that's all. But again, we don't know. I don't know. I don't know. That's the problem with this whole thing. We do not know. Maybe it was common sense.

Maybe it had nothing to do with him. And just because of it, like he has. has to take the fall for it. Like, because we don't know that crucial detail of what he did to warrant the suspension, I find having a discussion about, well, I think you're right to say that there needs to be some kind of education and disclaimer for young people who get into these betting apps.

While at the same time, I still think that for a lot of them who get into them, you already have to be of a certain age to get into these anyway. Like, it's on, the onus is on them to learn. Like, no one should be holding their hand to know how,

to bet responsibly through, I mean, maybe in some ways, like, yes, if it gets to a point where it is a problem, is more than okay to seek help. It's more than okay to seek resources that can help you get out of whatever addiction that you are going through. But at the same time, for a lot of these people, the onus is on them to still take that help for them to learn about what is needed. But again, it's a bit of a moot point to discuss that side of it because we don't know the facts. Exactly. Unfortunately. Exactly. But that's what leads to this type of speculation and analysis. And that's why our original point was this is what happens when there's a lack of transparency. It leads to us kind of speculating and having these debates. But look, I think like Gary Bettman will likely be at the All Star Game in Toronto and likely to a media availability.

I'm sure these types of questions will be directed at them. Now, are you going to the All Star Game? I'll be at the All Star Game. Are you going? No, I'm not. but you grill them up. Yeah. Hey, why not?

If I get the opportunity, it'll be the second time. It'll be the second time I'll be in, if I get to do it unless like, you know, maybe we just let Pierre or the insiders go in. But, no, the chats with Gary Betman are very interesting. I could say I sat in on one. You got to ask him a question.

I forget what was the question I asked him. But I'm sure you're right. I'm sure he'll get asked that question. Speaking of the All-Star game, we were talking about this a few weeks ago when they said there was going to be four celebrity captains. And I think we got to take some credit here because we did nail at least two of them.

Yes. We definitely said Justin Bieber. We said the Bebbs would be part of it. Sure not. Bieber is a layup at all fairness. Yeah. I don't think it was that difficult to get Justin Bieber. No. As a captain for this event. I mean, he helped design the game. Yeah, and him and Matthews are, you know, they're buddies.

So we figured Bieber, Austin Matthews, that was the slam dunk. We also threw out Will Arnett, right? Like we said Will Arnett's going to be part of this. And sure enough, he is. Will Arnett's going to be partnered with Connor McDavid. We still got to get you watching a rested development. I'm telling you. There's a lot of shows.

There's a lot of stuff I need to get into. I will do it when I give myself the time. Maybe in those couple days before the All-Star break, like I'll start before the All-Star weekend. I'll try to, you know, watch it. movie or two that I haven't seen. I have, I have, I have a few in mind, but like, it'd be nice to kind of catch up on pop culture. What if all of a sudden at All Star weekend, you find yourself with a moment alone with Will Arnett.

And if you have just even a few episodes of arrested development under your belt, you could make a little inside joke. I've made a terrible mistake. I've made a terrible mistake. A banana stand joke. Anyway. but also Will Arnett is like, is like Will Arnett, I mean,

Lego Batman, Lego Batman, BoJack Horseman. Yeah. Blades of Glory was in that movie. Like Will Arnett, if you want to go through the, the All or Nothing dockey series, asking questions about that,

which he narrated that. Like, that was really good on his part to be a part of that. Did you ever watch Murderville? No, I did not watch Murderville. Murderville's good. Marshawn Lynch episode is really good. Okay, I'll add that to the list. But all that to say, like, Will Arnett is a talented actor who's been in a wide variety

of projects. I'm sure there are some other commonalities I could relate with him on. But yeah, Will Arnett makes sense? And then we have Tate McCray, who the rest of the hockey world has no idea about for whatever reason. Not me. I'm up on, I'm sort of up on Tate McCray. I've been put up to date on where her deal is,

your music ain't that bad. And you have Michael Boubley, who a lot more people know about. Yeah. So there you go. There's your final four captain. Are your kids up on Tate McCray? That's like kind of like in their age bracket.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think that they're in like they're during that Tate McCray a Democrat. Actually, it's funny as our oldest daughter who's 19 loves, like loves Will Arnett from Arrested development. So something for everybody at this year's NHL All Star event. And by the way,

a couple of guys that were hurt, Jack Eichel, Connor Badard, aren't going to be at the All-Star game. And now we know that Kyle Connor, Vincent Trocheck, going to replace them at All-Star weekend. So that's pretty cool. Like, Kyle Connor, we've had this conversation so many times.

Like, this guy is, I don't know, I don't know how long you can keep calling somebody the most underrated sniper in the game until it's like, okay, we get it. He's not underrated anymore. But I still feel like he's sneaky, sneaky underrated,

Kyle Connor. Tell you what. Tell you what. He's an all star. You know who's not an all star? Carter for Hagee. Oh, take that, Shane.

Take that. We don't even remember what the bet was. I don't, we never, you know what's funny? We never got to do a bet because like around the time

we were talking about it, Kyle Connor got injured. And now he's back up. Right. Yeah. He back up. So like, I don't know how we go about it now.

I don't know if we'll ever turn into a bet. I think it'll just be a fun. inside joke between Shana and I, you and the athletic hockey show listeners. It's something they could hold on to. Yeah. Okay.

I'll tell you what, before we dip out of this Monday show, I think game of the night on Monday involves Kyle Connors Winnipeg Jets. It's the Jets and the Bruins. And man, like you want to talk about,

like just in terms of heavy weights. So here's my question. That's a bigger statement game for who. Winnipeg or Boston? I'm inclined to say Winnipeg, but I don't know, am I right on that? Am I right on that? Like to me, Boston's almost at that point

where like nothing they can do will prove anything to anybody until we get to the middle of April. That's when they can. So I don't know. Whereas Winnipeg, this is around the time last year where it kind of went off the cliff for them.

And this is a tough game and a tough building. I'm inclined to say this is, the bigger statement game for Winnipeg, but I don't know. No, you might have it right because Boston has already surprised us all with how they've been able to play as well as they've

been playing with Patrice Bergeron happily retired. I saw a story actually float online. It might have been a Canadian press story. I'm not sure who got him, but Patrice Bergeron is literally just sitting at home, just enjoying his life. David Krechie also not on this team too.

And they've threw young players and their established players, the Boston Bruins are one of the best teams in hockey. Whereas the Winnipeg Jets, I think there's a lot riding on this core. I think there's a lot with Kyle Connor and Mark Schifley and Connor Hallibuck, the way they doubled down on those pending UFAs

and they said, you know what, we're going to find a way to keep this going and it's working for them. Yeah, maybe the pressure's a little bit more on them, considering the culture that's around Boston too. but I mean Boston loses that game I mean that's not something they're going to be happy about either right

like that's they take they take some hit in some way man no that to me is the game of the night on Monday and we'll be able to break that down on Tuesday it's you it's me it's the aforementioned down goes brown Sean McIndoo is going to be with us

and I got an early start time 10 o'clock Eastern time 7 o'clock Pacific I think I don't live in Pacific Exactly. Eight o'clock mountain time in the morning for you. But yeah, that would be a lot of fun. The sun might not be up at the start of the stream. It might eventually get up at the end of it.

Really? The sun's not up at eight in Calgary? So in Calgary, in the winter months, you'll see the sun come up at like eight o'clock. I think today the sun came up at around 826. But we worked that back in the summer. Very specific number. It's not like you said 820 or 825. you're like 826. I think I saw the timing for it somewhere,

maybe on my phone or someone else at it. But like we at least, it works in our favor in the summer where the sun sets at 10.50 that night. Yeah. The sun give it, the sun take it away. Yes.

So sun will be up maybe at some point during that show on Tuesday. It'll be you. Yeah, just watch out with the beams on my face. That's true. The show's going on. But I didn't close my blind. on Tuesday.

There you go. But thanks for listening to the Monday edition of the Athletic Hockey Show with Julian and I. Leave us a five-star rating and review.

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