The Athletic Hockey Show - Patrik Laine embarrassed by benching, NHL’s 2025 international tournament and scheduling quirk results in quiet night in NHL

Episode Date: November 21, 2023

Ian and Julian discuss the perplexing NHL schedule which has the NHL dark on Tuesday and Thursday of this week, the proposed international tournament to happen midseason in 2025 involving only Canada, USA, Sweden and Finland and trailblazer Luke Prokop's AHL debut.Mike Russo joins to talk about tough times in Columbus and the Blue Jackets decision to bench Patrik Laine and the controversy involving a post game question to Connor McDavid by Sportsnet's Mark Spector and the fallout from that, including former NHL referee Tim Peel weighing in.Russo also speaks with The Athletic NHL insider Chris Johnston who talks about the attractive pieces available in Calgary for trade, William Nylander's next contract in Toronto and how to fix NHL 3 on 3 overtime. Subscribe to The Athletic Hockey Show on YouTube: http://youtube.com/@theathletichockeyshow Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the Athletic Hockey Show. We say hello and welcome to your Tuesday edition of the Athletic Hockey Show. It's Ian Mendez, Julian McKenzie with you for the next hour or so. Our pal, my pal from Sweden, Mike Russo is going to drop by. I will ask him, Julian, the ABA Museum question. Yes, please. Yes, yes, yes. We'll ask him about the ABA Museum if he would have gone with me. and had a date night at the Ava Museum.

We had a lot of fun. A great conversation coming up, too, with Rousseau and Chris Johnson about kind of some league-wide stuff. But we teased this at the end of the... Who was that guy you said who was supposed to be on with Mike Rousseau? What's his name? CJ, something. Never heard of it.

I don't know. I don't know who that is. Chris Johnson. CJ. Our guy. He's a great guy. And we're looking forward to that conversation. You know, we talk to that conversation. about this at the tail end of the show on Monday. The NHL has zero,

count them zero games on the schedule for Tuesday night. And here's what we didn't know at the time, and I'll give full credit to Jeff Merrick, who, does Jeff Merrick also host a podcast? What are these podcasts you keep mentioning? I don't know. I have no idea what these things are. He does. He hosts a podcast.

Good for him. I'm sure his podcast is, look, He could use all the help he could get with that show, I'm sure. Yeah, exactly. But Merrick put out earlier today that there's no NHL games on Tuesday, partly because there's only three buildings in the league that have availability, meaning the arenas are booked everywhere else. The only places that could have hosted an NHL game on Tuesday are Vancouver, Calgary, Arizona.

And Arizona has got a game, I think, on Wednesday at home anyway, so they didn't want to do the back-to-back thing. But still, there's always. only three buildings available. I still think that means you could have had at least two games, maybe three tonight, right? Calgary, Vancouver is one. What about Arizona then?

Yeah, whatever. Like, I mean, yeah, you have some road team going in. You're absolutely right. That's fair. Yeah. I guess. I don't know. Here's a thing, though. Yeah. Here's a thing, though. Like, you're, like, I get it. It's a quiet night.

You probably want some NHL games in. at the same time, I hear how you sound on the mic right now. You're just getting out of a cold. I am. I'm just getting out of a cold. There's a whole bunch of journalists who were in Sweden just, you know,

you find a couple days ago. Is this not like, is this not like a welcome break for some of us, especially with some flu bug going around? Like, I'm kind of cool with the Tuesday night off. I don't know about you. I could use the, I could use the night off.

Okay, fair. Yeah, it's a good point. Look at that. Like, both of us are coughing. I literally just coughed and I had to mute myself. Like, I feel for fans who may very well want to see their team play, but I'm cool with the Tuesday night off.

But you know what would have been cool is last week when they had the Hall of Fame night. That's a night where you should have no games. Fair. You know what I'm saying? Like, like, you, anyway, give.

give fans something to do tonight. Now fans don't have anything to do it. Tonight would have been a great night for the Hall of Fame because all the attention would have been on the Hall of Fame. I mean, yeah, you watch the ceremonies, you watch all the, I mean, they get to rekindle their memories about their players they enjoyed watching. Like Hendrik Lundquist or Tom Barrasso or Pierre Trejohn

or insert other name here. I can see the logic in that. But I mean, hey, it's not like there's nothing for them to do. Maybe they could spend time with their families. Maybe they could start a new show on on Netflix or Apple TV. You could bin something new. You could

cook. I don't know. It's okay. It's alright to take a night off and just relax and just shut your brain off for a moment. I got you. You can even go on Twitter and see like people fighting each other. I don't know.

There's some source of entertainment that's out there. Yeah. There's people fighting on Twitter all the time. Some of them are media members and referees. We're going to have some fun with that when Mike Russo joins us here in a couple of minutes. But it's a, again, quiet night. And so again, this week in the NHL, you got no games on Tuesday, no games on Thursday, and then no games on Thursday.

To some extent makes sense because it's American Thanksgiving. You have a triple header of NFL games, and that usually dominates the schedule. that we talked about it on Monday, I'll hammer it home again. Why not have Canadian games on American Thanksgiving? It seems too easy. Too easy. But something else we've chatted about. Now we've got the details on this best on best tournament.

And I think we need to talk about this here. Sure. So the way it looks like it's going to play out for a, and this looks like it'll happen in season in the 2024, 2025 year, which is next, not this current season in the NHL, but the following one, they'll take roughly a week to 10 days off and there will be a four-team tournament. It's going to be Canada and the United States in one bracket, Finland and Sweden in the other. They'll play each other and then one plays two on either side.

What do you think of this? And then eventually they'll be a winner. So you could have Canada, US in a quote-unquote gold medal game. you could have Finland, Sweden in the quote-unquote gold medal game. Only four countries. You're not going to see Leon Dries Heidel. You're not going to see Timi Stootsl, Mordtsider, Anse Copatar, you know, pick a player, Pasternak, whatever. You're not going to see some of the best players on the planet in this tournament.

Obviously, I want more. I mean. Is this a good enough stopgap for you? If it's just a one-off, I can live with it, especially if after that we're going to have the World Cup. and the Olympics go at it every two years, which I believe I've said on the show before. I've definitely said it before, but you cannot have the World Cup just be this thing that happens like every eight years

and people just wake up one day and remember, oh, yeah, it's happening. Like you need to make it some kind of consistent thing. As for this tournament, I mean, I'll live with it. I mean, if it's the closest we're going to get to seeing Connor McDavid and Sidney Crosby play against each other. If this is going to be an opportunity for us to see Team USA at its best, Sweden, Finland as well, those games could be interesting too. I guess we're just going to have to live with that up until we get to a point where

we could accommodate more teams. I guess the only other thing is, is just if there's a way to incorporate, I know you don't like Team Europe, but if you incorporate a Team Europe in this concept and that's how you get the German guys, the Swiss guys, Slovakia, all the rest of Europe. And maybe that way you, I still think Team North America is a fun idea. Like, what

if they did like Canada, USA, and then a team North America and then you have Team Europe back in it? I mean, six teams. I mean, you'd have to find a way to make it work. But I don't know. I don't, wait. What's your team? What's your team North America then? Players that are

23 and under? Yeah. So you do like a similar concept to what, what happened in the, World Cup. Boy. Like, but okay, but now I think I head to February of 2025. You could have a team Canada if you just, just did it the traditional way, featuring Sidney Crosby, Connor McDavid, Connor Bedard, all of them on the same team.

You could. Come on. Like, why, like, why aren't we doing this? I mean, I think it could work. And I wouldn't have a problem with it. I'm just saying, like, if, if people are so worried about. other countries being left out in all this, then you add a fifth team like a team Europe,

and then your solution after that is you add a six team like a team North America. But if you're just doing four teams, it's fine. I can live with it, again, mostly off the fact that this is just a one-off, and it should be back to normal going forward. I hate the Young Guns idea. I do. And I don't like the Europe idea. I think it's ridiculous that people would hate it as much as they do.

It was a fun thing, arguably the most memorable thing to have come from, that last World Cup was Nathan McKinnon scored against Team Sweden with all those guys celebrating. Arguably the most memorable thing that happened from the last World Cup involved a team that people think was a gimmick and people want nothing to do with it. Like I don't

get it. Right. Well, no, no, I think you know what it is? I don't understand. I'm not saying, put it in the Olympics. Like, like, I don't know. Like, I had no problem with it in the World Cup. And now we're discussing the idea of maybe putting it in this random one-off tournament. And like,

Oh no, we got to think of the sanctity of all this. Like, I know some people are going to say that. The sanctity of the one-off tournament. No, no. The sanctity of international competition, best on best. That's too gimmicky. That's, you know, like, give yourself a break, man. Like, I think it, I mean, not you specifically, the Royal You.

It's just like, it's like a, it was a fun, cool thing to add to an event that does not happen all the time. And even if they didn't get as far, some people would have liked, I thought it was a fun thing to do. And I'm sure Russo's going to. half his opinions on this too when we bring him. Well, I'll tell you what, why do we, why do we do this? Why don't we take a break for just a quick second? And when we come back, we'll bring Mike Russo into the conversation about the World Cup of hockey.

And I'm going to, I'm going to float the idea about the Canada USA idea too, to Russo. Yes, if he likes that. So Mike Russo coming up here on the other side. Nice looking man reading that ad. Look at that. Well, handsome, handsome devils. Speaking of handsome devils, let's bring him in. It's Mike Russo.

Yeah, with a great hat, Julian. I'm going to use my chime checking account to go buy an old NHL Shields hat. Yes, yeah. He's not as cool. He should. I love it. Mike Rousseau is with us here on the Tuesday edition of the Athletic Hockey Show. I got two questions for you, Mike.

First of all, how's the jet lag for you as you're back? This is kind of your first full day back in Minnesota, right? How's the jet lag for you? Actually, I feel fine. I don't know if it was just going west east. When I went there, it was bad. But I don't even know if I don't even know if I, ever caught up. But I actually feel perfectly fine today. I got a normal night's sleep. Probably

the most sleep I've had a while and woke up normal time. So I think it's back to normal. Yeah. No, I'm with you. I had an atrocious time sleeping in Stockholm, but it's been a little bit easier here. Okay. So here's my question for you because I regret, like our week there, it was pretty busy. Like, we didn't even really have time to do that much socially as a group. I regret not going to the Abba Museum. And I said to Julian yesterday, I was like, I should have asked Rousseau if he would have gone to the Abba Museum with me?

So here's my question. I regret. If I had sent you a note in Stockholm and said, Mike, meet me in the lobby in 20 minutes, Aba Museum. Would you have been in or out? I probably actually would have been in, but you would not have gotten me singing on stage and video

because apparently there's lots of video running around of Bill Garen singing Aba at the Abba Museum. I'd love to get a hold of that and put that right into an athletic article. Just not like just like randomly embed it just without any contact. Yeah. I probably would have gone. You know, I would have probably dragged you to a bar afterwards, though. Yeah. Yeah, the Royal Ian, by the way.

That's, I like, that's how we're going to start describing Ian. The Royal Ian. I like it. I like it. I like that a lot, actually. Oh, man. But it's good to know that. At least you're not, I mean, of course, you would find a way to beat jet lag. There's nothing that's ever going to keep down, Michael Russo. I don't know. I got a killer cold, though. So hopefully.

See, there's something going around. And you want games on Tuesday. You want people running themselves to the ground, Ian. I think it's because we took the subway, right? Like we took the second way. That probably is what it is. And we both got a terrible goal. Okay. Hey, listen, you were,

I know you were kind of just in the green room there, eavesdropping on Julian and I talking about the World Cup of hockey and best on best. So tell us, where do you fall in this argument? I don't know. I mean, I do think it sucks that other countries are not going to be in it. And until Russia gets its act together,

I don't know. I mean, it's just hard to have these international tournaments as a whole. And just eliminate guys, you know, teams like Switzerland and Czech Republic. and Slovakia and Slovenia and Germany and all these great countries that are proud hockey countries. I don't like the Young Stars game and the North American idea and all that stuff.

I get it. I mean, you know, it's a gimmick tournament, so you might as well have gimmick teams, but to me, like if you can't have that, then I think it just needs to be the four countries. It stinks that all these other teams are out, but that's just sort of the way it needs to be. I just don't love the idea of going back to Team North America and Team Europe and have just the Europe teams be the teams that aren't, you know, represented. And then you wouldn't even have Russia on that team probably. So I don't love it. But like Team Europe as a concept?

So you just don't like that either? Well, I mean, you know, it's Team Europe and you're just lumping in. To your point, though, you would need a sixth team. So like, how do you do it? You know, you're going to have all the team. You're going to have the European teams that aren't Swiss and aren't Swedes and Finns on one team. or Russia. If you want to do it that way, that's fine.

But then it's not a true, really international tournament. If you do it that way, and then you're going to probably need a six team, and then how are you going to do that six team? So I don't know. I just, I don't love this whole idea to begin with. I would love to see a World Cup back. And unfortunately, until we have some sort of peace between the Russian Ukraine, I don't think that Russia is going to be in any international tournament anytime soon.

you know, so here's my idea, Mike. And in fact, I'm going to try and pitch this as, I'm going to try to write this article this week because it's a fun idea. It's an outside the box concept for best on best. It's Canada, USA, it's a best of seven series, but you alternate the games between the men's and the women's program. I like it. I mean, I would love to see that type of thing and bring a little bit of rivalry back,

you know, especially Canada and, uh, and U.S. women that always seems to get, you know, intense and heated and all that good stuff. I do like that idea. But the, I don't know, the whole, I hope we never hear about team Europe and team North America and team young stars again. I just, I thought it was, you know, I didn't like it at the time and I, I still wouldn't want it in this tournament. Okay, what about, what about if we just made the two teams North America versus Europe? Doesn't that solve a problem? You have the best, you have the best players in North America, Canada.

you ask if the best players in Europe on one team, you make them play against each other in a seven game series, that passes the time. If we're not going to be able to have a proper international tournament with Russia, why not just have the best players from both sides? And I get it. It's been done through the All-Star game format, but why not make it like an actual thing for a week?

Like, why not do that instead? It's funny. You even mentioned that. And the first thing I'm thinking about is a crotchety old sports writer is writing the team snub the column. I mean, could you imagine the great players that won't be on that team and even just setting up the lines and all that type of stuff? It would be fascinating putting that team together.

That'd be a lot of talent left off that roster, though. Both rosters. Well, okay, one thing we can guarantee is that Connor McDavid, whether it's Canada or a team of North America, McDavid's on the roster. I want to play a clip involving McDavid. This is from Monday night. We want to just give a little context to our listeners.

the Edmonton Oilers go to Florida. They lose to the Panthers. In a game which they were up to nothing, right? They were up to nothing in that game and it slipped away. And have a listen. Here is Sportsnet.ca's Mark Specter asking a question to Connor McDavid postgame. Are you better off to try to win this thing, 4-1 or try to win at 7-5?

You love this question, but I've answered it so many times. We're trying to keep the puck out of our net, obviously. that's our main focus. And obviously we haven't done that, again, for a number of different reasons. Okay. So that question, obviously, you could see McDavid. Ooh, you love that question.

Tim Peel seemed to jump in. That's another discussion probably for another day with whether or not you should be able to be releasing private messages. But what do we think about the question to McDavid? McDavid's answer as it continues to be messy in Edmonton, like even after a coach? change. Yeah, it must be something about a visitor's locker room. I want someone who's kind of a brawl with

Miko Coyevo in that room. You know, actually, yeah, just, you know, kind of a similar testy exchange. Although I didn't find that very testy there, you know, and I guarantee a Spector didn't find a testy with Connor as well. I mean, the point of the question is simple. I mean, you know, it's unsustainable that we've been talking for years that the Oilers could play these shootout games if they're not going to defend. You can't win long term in this league any more. more winning seven five games. This isn't the 80s oilers. So that was the point of the question. And I think it's a fair question. And I don't love the piling on of spec. There's just something about, I don't know, we've discussed this before. There's just something about that fan base with

their writers there. It's, I just find it absolutely just gross the way that there, that all the writers are treated in Edmonton, you know, including a hall of famer, Jim Matheson. But spec is one of the most respected sports writers out there, most respected hockey writers and hockey broadcasters out there. And I think it's very clear and a very fair question of what he's asking. It's just, you know, you can't just continue. You know, everybody thought that they wrote the ship with three straight wins to under the new coach.

And here they are back to playing the way that they were. And it just is proof positive again that a leopard can't change its spots. So even as Connor McDavid said at the end of that clip, they can't keep the puck out of the net. They want to keep the puck out of the net. There are myriad reasons why they can't keep the puck out of the net. And until that is solved in Edmonton, it's just going to be a two-man show that continues to not get a lot of success. And so I have no problem with the question.

I don't like the way that Mark's been treated today. And I just, I think it's really a shame the way that that fan base as a whole talks and writes their, their, their writers all the time on Twitter. It's just so gross, the things that are said to them, the replies to them on an everyday basis. And this is just another example of this being a completely fair. question, you might not like the way that it was answered, but it just seems to be just glee with the Edmonton fan base there, the way, whenever they want to pile on the, on the, on reporters there. And as far as that private conversations, look, I'm not going to get into that because I like Tim and I have a, have a good relationship with Tim and all that stuff.

But this is, that, that is example, exhibit A of why very rarely if a fan writes me for my private opinion that something, unless I'm willing to put it out there publicly in an article or publicly on a tweet, I usually just ignore the tweet because you just can't trust in today's day and age that would have said in a text message or a direct message or whatever is just going to stay private. And this was, this was Exhibit A. And if you're a fan that writes me and gets frustrated that I never replied, there you go. That's reason number one. Okay. I'll take that as something well said on that front. I don't know if I like that conversation going out there, but just

no shade to either guy, I guess, but just a really bizarre time. And we see even Frankservolly hopping into that too, just a really bizarre exchange with all of those guys. But I know you don't want to get into that too much. We can just leave it there. Yeah, yeah. And, you know, all I can say is, again, like, to me, the most important thing is a sports writer is, is just a respect level

with the fans that you're writing to and the respect level amongst your colleagues. And I can tell you that amongst colleagues, Mark Spector's most respected sports writer and hockey writer that I've ever been around. I love his writing. I love his opinions because he's a very opinionated hockey writer. You're obviously at times going to disagree with his line of questioning or what he writes or a question or a question of press conference or something like that. But that doesn't mean it doesn't need to be civil. And I don't think there was anything wrong with that question.

I think anybody with a brain knows what he was trying to ask. And that is the point right now of what's going on with the Edmonton Oilers is that they are going. back to what we saw pre-firing and that's not defending. And that's the point is that if you want to have sustained success in this league, you got to, you know, unless it's game six against Florida, Vegas just beating the crap out of them. Usually it's going to be tight hockey games and that's the way you're going to win. Okay.

We can move on to Columbus with Patrick Linae, a healthy scratch against the Philadelphia Flyers. One quote that's going around Aaron Portsline was able to, he big that up today on his Twitter. Over my career, it's probably the most embarrassing thing that's happened to me. I'm not happy about that. They know that. It is what it is. It's over and done. What do you make of what's going on with Patrick Lainain in Columbus? You can even love Johnny Godro as well, who's not playing well. They've lost, I believe, nine games in a row. It is not a good situation with the blue jackets. How do you see it? Yeah, I mean, look, hey, look, I get that Patrick Liney doesn't like being made of an example of. But this is about the lone hammer that a coach usually

and that's taking a star out of the lineup, and it doesn't go down lightly. You make a decision like that, it's an organizational decision. I can guarantee that Pascal Vincent did not sit out lineate without having conversations with John Davidson and Yormelkekeleinen. But on the other hand, I understand that Patrick Line is not going to be happy about it, and you wouldn't want a player to be happy about it. I am not, I'll be honest, I don't watch Columbus enough to know exactly how he's been playing. Plus, as Ian can attest, it's like, you know, when we were in Sweden,

And it was like we were disconnected from the rest of the world and didn't even realize the NHL was still going on. So I didn't watch any of Columbus. But I do think this is, this is, you know, to me, the hammer that a coach has is benching guys during the games and, you know, and sitting out players. And a culture like Columbus, which has been perennial losing hockey, at some point you've got to add a culture of accountability there. And if that's the way that Pascal Vincent thinks it needs to be done, you know, obviously there are reasons for it. I cover a team in Minnesota where they have some underachieving stars. I don't think it should ever get to the point that Crowe Caprisa should be taken out of lineup.

The guy's still working his butt off and getting scoring chances and things like that. But if I were Dean Eveson, there will come a point where I would have to send maybe a message to a Matt Boldie or somebody like that who's just in a colossal disappointment this year. And I just think that this is an example. And we're seeing a lot of it. We saw Jonathan Huberto a couple of weeks ago. As you know well, Julian benched for a part of a. game. This is stuff that happens in the grand scheme of 82 games. It seems to be happening a lot

more lately. And unfortunately, you know, in a salary cap world where coaches don't have extra players really at their disposal a lot, the only accountability that you sometimes have is sitting a guy during a game or, or in this case, sitting out outlining. Isn't it remarkable that, you know, fans will sometimes scream, you better bench your star players make a statement and then you do it. And people like, I can't believe you bench. this our place. It's this, it's this weird juxtaposition. By the way, a little hat tip to Aaron Portsline for his work in the last three or four days because I think he's captured the spirit of what's going on in Columbus. His column the other day basically saying, of all the bad seasons

Columbus has had, this might be the worst. And that's saying something. And then Aaron Cortzline knows bad hockey. Exactly. Like I was covered. I mean, for a while, Aaron and I were like that toe to toe and it's like, losing his hockey writers around, and he has just lapped me by now. Yeah. I mean, I cannot even imagine. I mean, that's why I always tell, you know, so the Wilde and Columbus Blue Jackets are expansion cousins, right?

And I'm telling you, wild fans, I think they have it bad here, that all they do is losing the first round every year. Just imagine being a Blue Jacket fan. That team in 23 years has won literally nothing other than one playoff round that probably was a fluke over the Tampa Bay Lightning. And everybody thought it was up from there, and it's just, you know, laundry list of coaches and players and all sorts of stuff. And so if Aaron Portsland is saying this is as bad as it gets, this must be as bad as it gets.

Yeah. And Aaron Portsline with a great conversation with John Davidson as well, so that, you know, with J.D. And, you know, I think so much of our focus this year, guys, has been on Edmonton and San Jose and kind of, you know, they've both been train wrecks. I think Columbus is right in the mix for the team that might be the biggest biggest trainer. Hey, trainer, before we get into your conversation here with Chris Johnson, which we're looking forward to, Mike, you touched on the Minnesota Wild briefly. I'm just wondering if you can give us a sense of where things are at with the Wild right now,

given they lost both games in Sweden. There's been a lot of noise around, hey, they might need to make a change. Something needs to happen. Give us a temperature check in Minneapolis, St. Paul, right now. Yeah, it's 33 degrees out right now, but right now inside that organization, it's pretty much getting to the boiling point. It's not quite there yet, but it's getting there. I had an exclusive interview before Sunday's game with Bill Guerin, and he divulged to me that he basically ripped the team anew. Actually, he downplayed it. It was the players that really

informed Joe Smith and I afterwards that he ripped the players a new one on Monday before they got on that plane for Sweden. And, you know, it didn't result in two wins. And, and, uh, in Sweden, but I'll tell you what, they definitely played much better in both games against Ottawa and Toronto. And, you know, it really is a great example, the Ottawa two wins that they had there of how a couple wins can write the ship a bit, you know. If you remember, Ian, we were talking throughout that Ottawa, Minnesota game, that those were two very tight teams that were scared to make a mistake.

It was a jittery game with not a lot of events that happened, and it looked like two teams that were playing for coaches jobs right there and just scared to do. anything. And then they win two games. And Michael Landlauer tells you that he's going to declare four points at the border. So, you know, things can change very quickly if they beat Colorado and Detroit this weekend. But right now, it is, it's testy here. They're, they've lost 11 of 14 games. They're getting points in two in a row. It feels like in those two games, they repaired a lot of the problems that we're plaguing them. But they're still common thread that they're giving up too many goals, too many power play goals and not getting great goaltening. And their stars have not been stars.

is Caprice off only one even strength goal this year, boldie only one goal this year. And it's just been a really, really difficult time here. Now, I wouldn't call it a vote of confidence that Bill Garron gave Dean Evesant to me, but he certainly made it seem that he gets Dean's issues right now. One, he's coaching

with a team that has a $14.7 million dead money, so that's a lot of talent that's not on his roster comparative to other teams. But the other thing is that he says that he cannot go out and execute for these players. And But the obligation inside this organization is that they're still good enough to make the playoffs. So if this continues, if they are going to get embarrassed on home ice continually, if they don't win some games here in the next week or two, this could come to ahead with Dean Evanson being in trouble.

But right now I don't sense that it's an imminent thing, but imminent could change very quickly with a couple more losses. So they are under pressure here. We're at U.S. Thanksgiving. They're very close to the seller of the NHL, but they're also only four or five points. out of the playoff spot. So they've got to start winning games here. This team in the past has always seemed to figure it out. But right now, there's no signs of that happening.

And a lot of it is just because they're giving up way, way, way, way too many goals on a nightly basis. All right. Well, I'll tell you what, as always, when you join us on Tuesdays, you come bearing gifts. And that is a conversation with somebody in the hockey community. Sometimes it's a general manager. Sometimes it's a president.

Sometimes it's a colleague. Chris Johnston is the person you chatted with this week. So set this up for us, Mike. Where do you guys go in this conversation here that we're about to hear? Yeah, we start off, I believe talking about the wild and a little bit of what we say. Now, I'll be honest before we did that interview. I was really sensing that Dean could be in a lot of trouble. That definitely changed in the last couple days.

But as I said, his seat is definitely getting to that boiling point. We talk a lot about the Oilers. we talk about the three-on-three decision that the NHLGMs made about maybe booting this to March and having sort of an over-the-back, you know, back court violation type thing. I don't know how you would, you would, you know, essentially get the referees to call that or what the penalty would be if you go over the back. But I'm actually for it. You know, after watching the Wilds two overtimes in Stockholm, I'll tell you what, man, they had three or four retrievals that were just hard to watch them just passing back over the red line. And so I actually think it is becoming too much of a strategy in the NHL.

So we talk about that. We talk a lot about the Canucks and how they seem to be for real as well. So that's the conversation with Chris Johnson. And I'll try to get you somebody for next week as well. Yeah, listen, we're looking forward to this. As always, hey, listen, hope you feel better because like Julian's battling cold and flu. I think I am too. So we hope that you feel better, get some rest here.

And we'll get you again next Tuesday. Yep. See you guys. Take care. All right, there he goes. Mike Russo. And I hope our listeners enjoy this. a conversation between two of the bets in the business.

It's Mike Russo and Chris Johnston. I'd be joined my colleague, Chris Johnston of TSN, and thankfully now the athletic, Chris. And I was in Toronto the day that we, the day before we hired you. And I, you know, I like to pride myself on being a good reporter. And when I got the scoop the day before, I was absolutely shocked. It was kept a pretty good secret. Super excited that you're with us now. Yeah, that was one of those weird ones for me where they didn't want me to say anything to

Anyone? Like, I saw you at the morning skate and then like three hours later, I was told by one of our hires up. And I'm like, uh, man, does he have a good poker face? No, it was just, I didn't want to screw it up at that point. So I'm obviously happy to be with you, to be with Joe Smith, everyone at the athletic. Man, that's, it's been a crazy couple weeks. And I guess that's, that's hockey. Right.

Even the season starts and how all these things we would have thought in September or not true in November. Yeah, one of those things actually is the team that I cover my day job, the Minnesota Wild. and Chris and I are in Sweden at the Global Series game. It's the final day, the Global Series games, fourth of four games, the Wild lost last night in a shootout to one to the Ottawa Senators. They play the Toronto Maple Leafs today. It's going to be a very tough game. That puck drop is 18 hours after the game's conclusion last night.

Jay Woodcroft was just fired and there's going to be a second one eventually. And right now probably Dean Evanson's on the hottest seat in the National Hockey League. You know, just your thoughts on this wild team because, man, have they underachieved? They have. And, you know, I don't know if something has to give territory totally, but it feels like if we're not there, we're just one step removed from that point. I mean, you know, the wild losing the games that they did, you know, before coming over here to Sweden.

You know, this can be a blessing and a curse this trip. I mean, we're both here. Full disclosure. Having fun, it's nice to be in another city. But when you're one of the teams that comes here, I mean, you play two games in a 12-day period. The rest of the league moves on while you're flying over here getting adjusted the time zones. You only play the two games. And frankly, the league moves on. There are, you know, other teams are getting points. And so I think when you're winning,

we'll talk about all the bonding the teams did, how much fun they had when you're losing, which, you know, Minnesota's been both before the trip and now in the first game they played here in Sweden. I think that it actually ramps up the pressure a little bit. And, you know, you wonder about Dean Everson. It wasn't so long ago he was getting an extension, but I mean, the nature of his job, you know, the wild, like many teams in Liga and in precarious cap position, there's not a lot.

You can do to shake up the roster, and then you start looking elsewhere for change. Yeah, especially when Bill Guerin extended 3.30-somethings, right before the season, those were three potential trade trips, said on your insider trading board later to the season that are no longer going to be there in Felino, Zuccarello, and Ryan Hartman.

So really, he's got like one bullet left in the chamber You know, one of the problems that you saw them last night, C.J, is that Matt Boldie is a complete non-factor right now. Coral Caprice is having a very underwhelming season, one shot and that came with like 10 seconds left in overtime in the game

on Saturday night. And I don't know if you felt this way to say, but they looked like a frightened team on the ice. They looked like when they took that one-nothing lead that it was like, we are going to try to ride this to the finish line, not make any mistakes. We saw both

desperate teams and overtime almost scared to do anything. Right. And look, the players get, everything we're talking about isn't news to them. I mean, we hope they're listening to the pod, but they don't need to listen to the pod. They've understood what's going on. And you sign the guys you did, it's a good memory for me, like what you're connecting those signings. That's a team that this year's expecting to make the playoffs. It's trying to build off last year.

I mean, obviously there are some difficulties with the cap situation for Minnesota. They can't be a player in everything they'd like to be because it's a, of some dead money on their cap. But, you know, this was a season where it was supposed to be a step forward. And it's sliding so much in the wrong direction now. I mean, Keo-Kapri's all with a one shot. Yeah. Not a good sign.

I mean, for him, this is almost a home game, right? You want him coming over here. I know he's not a Swede, but, you know, and feeling good about it. And, you know, this is where I mean, like, these trips are hilarious because it can be so good for the teams when everything's all right. And nothing feels right right now with the wild. And to your point, I mean, his mom, dad, brother. were at the game yesterday, but it's not just him.

I mean, Eric Saneck. His grandparents saw him play for the first time yesterday. He didn't have a shot on goal. Joe Hansen, an underwhelming game. You know, it's shame that Gustafson and win. But let's move on to the rest of the league. We just talked about the Edmonton Oilers. They lost their first game under their new head coach yesterday.

Chris Knoblock. But, you know, before that won three in a row, two in a row under him. I'm starting to look more and more like the team that we expected, but still, you know, not a not. they've got a lot of work to do as well. And it's not just the fact that, you know, that people feel that maybe drives a head on and McDavid need to produce more. I mean,

they've got issues on their back end and still a lot of long ways to go if they're going to get themselves, you know, their ship righted, but there's definitely time. There's time, but that's why they made the change when they did. Right.

I mean, this is one of those weird ones. Like, you got the feeling Carter McDavid's public comments afterwards. Like, he didn't want the coach fire. Like, it was one of those ones.

I think management and ownership are so desperate for that team to try to turn things around. And they just couldn't wait anymore. And at least that's how they felt. It's gone well this week other than the loss in Tampa that they had on Saturday night. But, you know, it's a team that has to make the playoffs. I mean, you look at their year from 10,000 feet, Leon Drysidal needs an extension on July 1st. And whether, like, I don't know whether that's going to happen. and this isn't reporting this,

but it's like everything has to go into giving all the success you can have before that, because it's going to be a huge turning point, one way or the other, no matter what they pay them, if they have to everything about trading. I'm like, I don't know where it's going to go. But I think that that gives us the window and the heat that they're under.

And by starting the year two nine and one, yes, they win three in a row from that point on. So they get to five nine one. Then they lose in Tampa. But like, like that's, that's,

you don't, the math isn't good. It doesn't mean you can't do it. We saw the same blue as blues of 2019 when a cup from last place in January. it started January. So it can be done, but you have to play really good hockey. And so the margin of error for them is so small. And, you know, now they're out on the road in the eastern time zones.

You know, they got to get wins out there. And so they're going to be that the crazy part of the season is your 15, not even 20 games in. But for them, every game is going to feel a little bit must win internally. I think until at least they get back above 500, they get into sort of a playoff positioning because they still are, they're still looking up at almost most of the league. Yeah, exactly. Although, you know, I mean, the good news is that Seattle seems to have come back to Earth. Calgary's off to a disappointing start. But the one really surprising team in the Pacific is the Vancouver Canucks.

You know, Hughes and Miller and Peders. Yeah. They're having huge games, huge seasons. Brock Pester tied for the league lead in goals. A coach right now that seems to have wrapped his finger around that room and is pulling all the right levers. Are the Canucks for real? I'm not sure. I mean, I mean, I know you want an answer there.

Here's the thing. When they've been sort of down the last couple seasons, I kept looking at the roster and going like, okay, it's not a perfect roster. Any team, even the best teams in league, you can usually pick apart maybe aspects of how they're built just a cap world and all those things. But they're so underachieved in my eyes in light of the talent you're talking about. I mean, they had a top center in Pedersen. They have a top defenseman in Quinn Hughes in the right age. Like, and they're not making too much money or anything like that. you know, Thatcher Demko is a great goaltender.

And they have other players. Like if you go, if you get into the J.T. Miller's and Bessers and, you know, Conradt, like they had, they had guys. Like, it was confusing to me why they were so poor, um, in prior seasons. And now that they're, I almost feel like it's almost a little too good to be true. I mean, it's not that I don't think they're for real, but it just seems, I'm not predicting them to like, win the president's trophy or anything like that. And so I wonder if there's somewhere in the middle, but like, it still feels like they're a defenseman or two away.

Yes. And look, that's an area where I know Patrick Alvin has really been aggressive and trying to get his handle on the defensive market to see if a move can be made. I mean, as we know, most trades aren't happening at this point of the year. We saw two in the wild made. But not a lot happening in that regard. But I think a lot of the cards start getting lined up. And, you know, Alvin's in there with the Calgary situation where they have three pending UFA defensemen, you know, Nikita Zadora of chief among them. You know, I think he's checked on Columbus. You know, they have Andrew P. peak, maybe bulkface that they would move. So, you know, Vancouver has been out there trying to make that happen, but, you know, might take some time. And I'm sure if you're in the GM seat, you're just hoping team keeps winning a bit before

you make the roster the best it can be in your eyes. Yep. You mentioned Calgary. I mean, you know, they're probably where the while would like to be now with the flexibility. You know, they left their UFAs unsigned. And now they have levers to pull. And there's probably less pressure on.

them because of that, where now the while they have put themselves in a committed spot for their pending UFAs. When do you think that Calgary is going to start to really look at, you know, Lynn Holm and Zaderoff and Hanifan and some of these players? Well, internally, I think they've already made the decision that that's where they're going. So that's, you know, that's the first step of this is they've stopped talking. First step is acceptance. Well, yeah, you're accepting there's a problem.

You're no longer talking, you know, no Hanifin and the flames had an eight-year. deal. Maybe not done, but like close, close enough to the finish line that people like me hear about it. Right. And, and it didn't get done. And now both sides, I think step back like, whoa, okay, that may be a good thing we both didn't do this because, you know, the big thing for no Hanifit isn't just, you know, maximizing what he can earn. I mean, that's important. But he wants to play on a team that has a chance to win the cup. And I think Calgary is maybe now taking that step back because they're going to move all these guys. I don't know that they're in a rush, though, to make those trades in the moment because they're one of the,

of the few teams that are truly out there, I think, with attractive pieces that we all know are going to be traded sometime before March 8th. So every team in the league that has a need can go like 100%. These four guys are probably being traded and maybe a couple more down their roster. I can't say that everywhere else. I mean, there's some sort of, you know, the sharks, we know are not making the playoffs, but there's this not as much on their roster. There are some veteran pieces. Like they do have some things to move, but we're not talking about like a six foot, defenseman like Zadora. We're not talking about, you know, Lice Lindholm at his best on a good team. I think you're still the second line center in a lot of places. You know, there's not,

there's not a lot of that in my eyes yet. And I'm actually just formulating our first trade board here for the athletics. So this is maybe top of mind for me. But in other places, there are definitely players who will be traded, but nobody has the kind of pieces that Calgary's going to be able to move. And so in some ways, I think they can be market makers. And I, and certainly internally, I don't get the sense they feel they need to be. make these trades by December 10th or, you know, it's, we're coming up here on Thanksgiving weekend in the U.S., which is when a lot of teams, for whatever reason, this has become this hockey thing that I think is true, look at their team and start to really be critical or think strongly,

but what they want to do, I think Calgary can be like, all right, you're all looking around. You need these pieces. Start bidding on them, and it's going to take a few months. One of the feel-good stories here in Toronto, here in Stockholm, while we've been here, has been Toronto's William Nielander, 16 straight points, 16 straight games of the point, heading into tonight's game with the Minnesota Wild. I'll bet my career he gets to 17. This might be dated. Yeah, exactly. You know, it does it in front of his family the other day. It was just so cool watching him in the stands, you know, taking pictures with everybody. And I mean, it was just, it was pretty neat to see. His future is obviously top of the mind for a lot of people.

in Canada, especially in Toronto right now. What do you hear with him? This is so quiet. It's eerie. Yeah. I mean, these are two sides that have endeavored to really keep things tight-lipped. And so quite honestly, I'm not getting much like blow by blow. You know, they called on Friday and asked and offered this.

And I said at some point probably a month ago, 90% I was saying this will get done. because the one thing I've learned, Mike, is that when you have two sides who so badly want the same outcome, it usually happens. And that's, that is true, William. He loves playing in Toronto, not just, you know, for a good clip for the microphones. I think it really is a place he feels comfortable. I think that they've loved him since day one. I wonder if there's a little bit of regret that they didn't make a harder push to sign him in the summer. There was certainly talks in Nashville at the draft. And I think they, they saw the number to the, at that time that Neil Landers' camp was talking about and got a little sticker shock about how that looked

and then, you know, focus on the other business of the summer. And now the fact that he's played this well, to me, that's almost like, I mean, it's great for him. It's good for the team in the short term, but it makes me wonder, does that change the dynamic bigger picture? Because, you know, I think that if he, you know, if he wants 10 million or above, he's justifying it now, right? It's not a crazy ask in June when you can, you know, you and I can go into negotiation. I can say, I want anything. And the team goes, okay, yeah, good, good on you. Well, now, I mean, he's right among the scoring leaders in the league as we're recording this. It's got a point in every game.

And it's a little more than that to me. Actually, I've watched this guy play for eight years now in Toronto. At times, he's one of those players you love, but like he disappeared. Like, you've always had a yeah, but with him. There's been no yeah, but this show. Like, he's been on it. I mean, the reason they won the first game in Stockholm is literally him. Like, he makes the entire play on a night they're making no, have no, have no,

offense going. He makes the entire play that sets up the first goal. He scores the second goal to tie it. And then and then gets a secondary sis on the third goal. I mean, he, he's their driver right now on a team where you have guys like Matthews. He's going to start a $13.25 million contract. You know, Mitch Marner's making a little shy of $11 million now, but is up for a new deal in a year's time. You got Tavares, who's an $11 million player. I mean, if you're him, I think you're just looking around the locker and going, okay, so this guy makes this, this guy makes this, this guy's like, why am I not making that? And I don't know. know how that works because it already really hasn't worked in Toronto, right? I mean, I don't,

it's funny how things go. Like, you talk with these guys and you say, okay, the team doesn't succeed because they have these players. I don't think that's true. That these doesn't succeed because they don't have money to spend down the roster to have the right pieces around them. I don't think that the players themselves are necessary flawed. It's maybe the strategy is a bit flawed. And so how do you get more top heavy? This is my rhetorical question of the world. And if you're really, Neelander, are you in any rush? Like, are you feeling any amount of pressure? I mean, this guy is, I've never seen someone more in his element. Honestly, like, not just these past five days in Sweden where really he's been the focal point of Leaves. That never happens, right? The focal point of Leaves is Austin Matthews

since the day William Neander basically walked in the league. Well, here, it's like all of a sudden there's a new alpha in town. It might only last two weeks, but I think the confidence he has the way he's playing and, you know, he's a dad who played in the league a long time. I don't think he's going to make a bad business decision for him and the best business decision for him might be waiting this out. Yeah, no doubt. We talked about the, you know, the Oilers being one of the most surprise teams on the bottom, maybe even Minnesota conoccal heads right at the top and most surprise teams doing well. Who is your most surprise team? Like, you know, it's easy to say like Anaheim and, you know, like Washington, but one team like, I think we all always discount the Boston Bruins at our own peril, right? I mean,

We all look at them like a couple years ago. Char is gone, all that. They're going to come back to Earth. You know, when Marshaun and McAvoy were hurt, they're going to come back to Earth. They didn't. And now they lose Bergeron. They lose Kreichi. And here they are at 13-1 and 2.

That for me is a surprise, but maybe it shouldn't be. But anybody like that really just jumping out to you right now is just, man, this is, I'd never expected this. Every team talks about culture, but like nobody lives at like the brutes. Yeah. Right? Everybody wants to set that standard internally, and I get it. They have nice slogans on the wall or on their shirts in training camp,

but the Bruins have created something that nobody else in my view. And it's funny because they've obviously won one Stanley Cup kind of in this era. And it's all the way back in 2011. They've been to the final twice since then. They got to game seven of the final year, St. Louis once. So, I mean, they've been knocking at Success's door for a long time. But, you know, they don't have, they don't have Tampa's maybe swagger or, you know, they're down a banner in the rafters from these last 50s.

years. But to lose the players they've lost and just not miss a beat, that's, you're right. Like, we should know better at maybe, but I thought they were going to be crappy last year. I thought it was going to be a step back. And then they have an all-time regular season. And I know they lost in round one, but look, that's a bad two weeks after a great seven months. Yeah. And, you know, it was still game seven. Like, things happen in this game. It's bouncing puck on ice. Like, it's rubber on ice. Like, shit happens. I don't know if I can say that. No, you can. It's the athletic. I love it. That's why you came to us.

But I still, like, come on, you lose your top two centers at the end of that. Like, you look at their lineup. It's full of guys, and I say this with respect, but nobody would be picking that team on paper to do anything. And they're not just doing something like they're turnstiling the league again. So, I mean, are they going to win the cup? I'm not sure. But I still have to call that a surprise because you're right. On any given night, we might grab the standings, like take a picture and be like, oh, wow, Washington's in.

Yeah. That would surprise me if the capitals made the playoffs, but I just think it's a moment in time, whereas I think something everlasting about the Bruins where they can just lose players, but they have actually built something that matters there. You know, I think back, they signed Mitchell Miller,

I think last year they were 10 and 0 the day they'd signed him. There's an availability that just happened to be in Toronto, and so I was there. And their players called out management in Scro- like, I had never seen this like publicly. Like their players won after, one after one came out and call out management. I'm like, that's, that is actually true accountability.

Again, all those words that are buzzwords that every team uses, but I don't sure exist. Totally. If you, if you work for a team where you can call out management and management reverses course, like they are doing something right there. And, you know, I think that they'll be an active team before the deadline to try to bolster their group. Because, again, on paper, I still don't see them as a cup favorite. But tip of the cap a month into the season to be this good.

Yeah, Montgomery is a heck of a coach. seems like Brugon's culture lives on there. Final question. GM's meetings just happened in Toronto after the Hall of Fame and the big thing that came out of there. It's like sometimes the GMs get bored and try to change the game. And this one's like,

instead of extending three on three to ten minutes, let's get like almost like talk about a back court violation that we see in basketball. I didn't think this was a big deal until I watched the Wild Ottawa game yesterday and watched the wild three times throw pucks back into their own end. Both teams didn't even have a shot until the minute left in the in the overtime.

It feels like in March and we're both at the GMs meetings in Manalpan, Florida, this is actually something that is going to be on the table to be recommended to the players, to the competition committee. Yeah, I mean, I've learned there's not a lot of accidents. So that comes up as a topic in November. It's probably going to be a theme in March. It still feels a little bit like a solution in need of a problem to me. Like, I'm with you.

I watch a lot of these games, you know, we're both out there traveling the league. Like, I have, you know, I've seen some bad overtimes, but I've seen a lot of great ones, too. Like, you know, but this, this is, I'll say this. I think the NHL, it's nice to hear them almost throwing crazy ideas out there or like different ideas. Like, I do think at times it's easy to just get comfortable in what you have. And why not? I've always wondered, like, why not sit around with the smartest people in the game and talk?

Could we remove a blue line? Could we, like, I don't, I don't sit here saying I know what they should do, but I think that they should have those conversations. I just, to me, like, how do you enforce it like that? Yeah. It just feels a little bit. It's, it's one of those things. It's a minor change when we talk about it.

I think it's a major change in, like, how the referees are watching on the ice. And I like three on three over time. Yeah. Again, just one person's opinion. It is a genius thing. Like, I remember when three and three first came in and we never saw that. And now, like, I remember the first time we saw it, like when all of a sudden a player threw it back to their goal. You're like, actually, that is freaking genius.

Yeah. A full line change and all that. But now it is, it's almost like an epidemic. It is the player overtime because you don't want to give up the puck. I mean, the big thing in overtime is if you have the puck, you most likely going to figure out a way at a minimum get to a shootout. And this to me, like the constant throwing back over the red line, I think is an issue. Right.

You're trying to force giveaways, essentially. You're trying to force possession changes because there's good enough players in the league, three on three, even like when teams are making line changes that sometimes a team does control like a good portion of overtime. And, you know, to be fair to the hockey operations department, they're in those rooms watching the games every night more than I am. They don't miss a thing. For this to become a public talking point, obviously they've seen enough of a, they feel a trend has gone too far in the wrong direction. So, you know, I'm fascinated to see how they award this, what it looks like. And yeah, I can't imagine me a penalty. I think it would just probably

be a whistle on a change of possession. Or is it, that's what I wonder is they like, maybe the scoreboard goes like, you got to like, you got to like, you got to like, you got to, you. like flip the puck down the ice of the team. Like is it looked like, you know, something basically what you have in a rec league or in, like, maybe. I don't know. Because it's probably not a face off. Yeah.

So this is, this is where. What was interesting is Pierre LeBron's story in the athletic. One of the people that was kind of outspoken about it was Bill Guerin that's saying it's a joke. And then his team did it three times yesterday. So, so there you go. Well, you can plan in Bill's shoes, but you don't control the chess board once the game gets going, right?

You just got to watch it the rest of us. Well, CJ, I really appreciated it. really happy to join you. I hope everybody liked our coverage here in Stockholm. We had seven athletic writers here. Crazy to cover the global series. And as

always, you just did a masterful job. So thanks a lot. CJ. It's Chris Johnson. Reporter Chris on Twitter and back to you, Julian and Ian. There we go. Our guy, Mike Russo, as always, just an absolute pro. Great conversation. I love

the ending, too, where they're talking about three on three overtime. Julian, Ottawa, Minnesota's overtime was atrocious on Saturday. They went four minutes without a shot on goal. That's terrible. That's terrible. It is terrible. Here's what I'd like, and I love, by the way, I'm all in on Chris Johnston, his scoreboard noises.

That was good. I'm here for that. Here's what I'd like to see, because you know how they're talking about general managers meeting in March? maybe they'll have a little more clarity on this. Yeah, I always think this is a great idea. When you have games at the end of the season, March and into April, in which teams of both the teams playing have been mathematically eliminated

from the playoffs, allow them to play the games with these rules in place. So we can see how it plays itself out, right? So let's say at the end of the year, there's a game between Columbus and San Jose and the March and it goes to overtime, well then play with the new rules. And let's see what this looks like, right? Wouldn't that be a reason to tune in to Columbus, San Jose at the end of March? I mean, that's an idea, I guess.

The one thing I would just say is, and I mean, maybe it's not the right way of thinking, what if these teams are looking at those games as ways to adjust for their draft standing, if you get what I mean? and the rules impact that in a way. That's as best as I could think. Totally. No, that's not really bad.

It's a fair point. But, but like, I like the idea of, like, how would you do a change of possess, let's say, like, I'm just going to use Columbus again in San Jose as the example. He's going to pick up these two teams. These, these poor guys, sharks and jackets. Imagine they're playing a game in overtime. And one of the, let's say Columbus takes it,

back over their own red line. Like CJ and Rousseau say, you can't do a face off. So how would you do a change of possession? We just say, okay, you got to flip the puck back to San Jose and they get it? Or like, how would that even look? Yeah, it's one of those things I need to see.

I like the shot clock idea personally where you just like you're, you only have a certain amount of time to get a shot off. And if you don't get a shot off, you know, maybe you have a face off, maybe in the neutral zone. I think just any any opportunity where you're encouraging shots to happen is going to be better. The next question I would also have after that with the shot clock is, you know, does it have to be on net? Does it can just be the act of you shooting?

And even if it goes wide of the, well, you know what? You know what? It probably would have to just be on net. It would have to be on net. Yeah, if it misses wide, like that's still bad. Like, even in basketball, like you have stuff like that you have, the rules are set in place where you essentially have to get it at least on rent. And you have to yell Corsi while you're doing. Yes, gorgeous.

Absolutely. Great call back. Great call back. I'll tell you what. Let's wrap up this Tuesday edition of the Athletic Hockey Show by giving you a little bit of a shout out to Luke Procop, who on the weekend, late last week, became the first openly gay player to play as high as the American Hockey League.

And if you didn't get a chance to read this story, Joe Smith went down to spend some time with him in Georgia just before he got called up. So great people. Joe ended up just to give some, the listeners, a little bit of a backstory here. Because I did have a chance to have dinner and drinks with Joe one night in Stockholm. And he kind of had done the interview with Luke. And, you know, he was sitting there thinking, oh, I'll get to this feature at some point, end of November, early December.

and he had the interview, had it all transcribed, I think, and then all of a sudden he got the call up and the editors are like, you know what, we need that story, ASAP. So full credit, Joe Smith, while he was in Stockholm, put that story together

and did a wonderful job telling Luke's story. It's an inspirational story as this young man tries to navigate a path, Julian, that nobody has traveled yet before. At this level of hockey. I think at this point, the fact that he's willing to let his story be told is very brave. We are unfortunately, or fortunately, depending on how you view it, still at a point where these firsts have to happen. And as much as we see them as great stories, for people who are under the spotlight, there is a lot of pressure.

There is a lot of attention that comes with that. And for a player like Luke to be in this position where they could do that. I heard that story where I think Austin Matthews had reached out to them. Yeah. And said, you know, hey, like, I look forward to playing against you one day. Like, that is really cool to hear one of the premier players in the league show support in that way. And it's awesome for for Luke to put himself in that position where he is willing to be forthcoming with his story. And he's essentially going to be establishing these first.

And Fianzap being the first openly gay NHL player playing an NHL game, like that's going to, I mean, that's going to be a big deal when that eventually happens. But yeah, I think he deserves all the stick taps in the world for this. And, you know, in Joe's story, like you said, he had that little anecdote that Austin Matthews reached out to him with that very encouraging text message and that he also got a text message. And this was kind of known before, but that Elton John had reached out to him. Now, here's my question. Like, let's see you get a text and it's like, hey, Julian.

Elton John here. Just wanted to say, big fan of the podcast, love your flames coverage. Wouldn't you be like, okay, I'm getting, right? Like, how, like, I guess the question is, why would Elton John care about my flames coverage? Like, like, no, no, like, how would you know that it's like legit Elton John? Like, I have no idea. Like, you, I, like, you have to look at the number. you'd have to look at,

I don't know. Like even the number. But what do you look at the number? Like it's going to have a lot. I don't know. Like I, like you have to look at as much of the message as you can to, to feel,

to know you're not getting duped because like. Yeah, but what did be super suspicious? If Elton John texted you out of the blue? That's what I'm saying. Like, like, and that's why I had said.

But how do you verify it? That's what I'm trying to wonder. I'm like, I'm trying to figure out like, do you look at the number? Do you look at the way the text is written? Do you, I mean,

And you know, what's funny is like, it's one thing for Austin Matthews to text you and you don't know who that is. Right. If you're in the hockey circles, there are ways to go about verifying, hey, is this Austin's number? Is he is, like, is this really him? Who do you know in hockey circles might know someone who knows Elton John? Maybe Russo, because he's arguably pretty well connected. He's arguably the most connected person in the league. But like, I can't think of anyone else in the end of the end of.

who I would go up to and be like, hey, can you verify for me if this is Elton John's number? I have no idea how you go about that. I don't know. That's what I'm asking. Maybe the listeners are still awesome. They could get a number. You get a text from Elton John. Sir Elton John, mind you.

Sir Elton John. And then what happens? You get the number. Now you just, you store that in your phone, right? You're right away, you're putting that in your contact. You show, you put that in your phone. And then you can't ever text him unprompted now, can you? I mean, you could at least, I mean, maybe not impromptive,

but like the window is when you get that text. Yeah, you have 15 minutes and then that's it. Oh my God. Like, I'll tell you what, if that happened to be for the next like year, every bar dinner party hang out, I'm going to my friends. I'm like, I got this text from Elton John. Like you might, I might frame the text. Like you print out like you print out the text.

text, you blow it up and you frame it, you put it on your wall, and you show people, hey, Elton John decided to text little old me one day. That happened. Hey, Julian, love your flames coverage. Sincerely Elton John. Loved your flames mailbag, Julian. Oh my God. If he, like, I would just write to, hey, said the question. Said the question next time. Don't, don't be shy. You see like Elton J in the comments. Elton J. Elton John would immediately be the most famous subscriber in athletic history. You know, speaking of famous, and we'll wrap it up here, and I know this was a little

bit before your time, but the actor Jason Priestley, yes, from 90210.10. I had a chance to chat with him at an event in Sweden for the Boria Salming documentary. And I yell out, hey, Jason, do you have a second? He's like, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I introduced myself. and I say I'm with the athletic. He's like, oh, the athletic.

It's like, I read you guys all the time. Hey. Noted subscriber Jason Priestley. Let's go. We need to, okay, we need to put together a list of the most famous people. I think McConaughey is a subscriber, isn't he? That's pretty bold. Academy Award winning Matthew McConaughey.

That's, that's pretty good. Yeah. And I'm pretty sure Ryan Reynolds is, too. I think. Ooh. Yeah. shout out Ryan Reynolds. Yeah.

It's pretty good. Yeah. I don't know who else on the list of celebs. John Ham, right? Madman John Ham? No? Wow. John Ham is?

Yeah, I think so. I think he's an athletic confirmed athletic subscriber. Okay. All right. Okay, we need to go through that list. And now's the time to push this to the celebrities because, you know, the celebrities, it's tough for them. But this is the dollar a month promo.

right? Oh, yeah. So we're looking at you, Ryan Gosling. Like, this is your time to get in on this. Right now. And you could use a... Athletic.com slash hockey show. A dollar a month for 12 months.

Telling you, man, now's the time to do it. Pretty good early Christmas present. If you get what I'm saying. Yeah. There we go. You're waiting for that. Special something in someone in your life, share it. with them, whatever, dollar a month for 12 months when you visit

theathletic.com slash hockey show. That does it for the Tuesday edition of the show. I'd love to tell you that Julian, you and I'll be back tomorrow to kind of sink our teeth into all the action that happened on Tuesday, but we won't be. No action tomorrow. No action. However. Today, sorry.

Yeah, no action on Tuesday. But as always, it's a Wednesday. So Sean McIndood, down goes Brown is going to drop by. Always a fun conversation with him. him, we'll have no shortage of topics with him. And then the Red Hot LA Kings, the surprising Anaheim ducks, Eric Stevens going to drop by, chat some California hockey with us. That should be fun.

That's going to be dope. Yeah, that'll be a lot of fun. So that's coming up on Wednesday. That does it for Tuesday. Enjoy the night off, as Julian said, go spend time with your friends and family. What else did you say, cook? Yeah, cook. Just hang out.

Just get some rest. if you are under the weather or just getting out of being under the weather, yeah, man, just take advantage of a Tuesday night where nothing is happening at all. And yeah,

be back here tomorrow when we talk about the fact that there was nothing going on in the NHO, unless something crazy happens and then all of a sudden that becomes the topic because, you know, news never really sleeps. Because, you know, NHL. All right, have a great night. Julian and I will hit you up again on Wednesday.

Thank you.