The Athletic Hockey Show - Phil Kessel finds way to keep ironman streak alive, Michael Bunting's Calder candidacy, and would the Devils terminate P.K. Subban's contract to allow him to make a Cup run?

Episode Date: March 10, 2022

This week's Thursday show kicks off with a discussion about Phil Kessel skating one shift Tuesday night before leaving for the birth of his child. Was this way to keep his ironman streak alive underhanded? Sean vehemently defends Kessel's honor. Next, Michael Bunting currently leads rookies in scoring, but does being on a line with Matthews and Marner hurt his Calder chances? Then the guys discuss if New Jersey would actually terminate P.K. Subban's contract to allow him to sign with a Cup contender, Wayne Gretzky will be an analyst for the broadcast for the outdoor game between Toronto and Buffalo, and Sean's goalie quiz.In the listener mailbag, the guys discuss if Duncan Keith is a first-ballot HOFer and if Jaromir Jagr is overlooked as a GOAT, and they wrap up with a little "This Week in Hockey History".Have a question for Ian and Sean? Email [e-mail] or leave a VM [phone]!Save on a subscription to The Athletic: theathletic.com/hockeyshow Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome back, everybody. It is your Thursday edition of the Athletic Hockey Show, as always, in the two seats. It's Ian Madison, Sean McAdoo with you for the next hour or so. Coming up, we're going to talk about Phil Kessel and the Arizona Coyotes kind of skirting the rules as it pertains to Kessels' consecutive game streak, onside or offside. We'll talk about that. Michael Bunting continues his march towards, you know, the Calder Trophy. And we're going to talk about whether or not he should be a legitimate. candidate is his age a factor

and line mates a factor. All of that. A little bit of rumblings around P.K. Sue ban. Wayne Gretzky, going to be an analyst for the outdoor game coming up. We got a whole bunch of questions in the mailbag, not to mention a little this week in hockey history. So we got all

of that to get to. Should point out, not going to get Jesse Granger this week. That is because Jesse who usually joins us for Granger Things brought to by BEDAM. Vegas Golden Knights are on some sort of extended road trip here. Jesse's traveling, so no go for Granger this week. I'm sure we'll try to connect with them again next week. But I wanted to kick off this show, Sean,

by talking about what happened with Phil Kessel and the Arizona Coyotes this week. Because I got to tell you, I got conflicted feelings. I don't know how to feel. Tell me how I should feel that Phil Kessel and his crazy conservative Game Street was allowed to live because the coyotes let them play a shift and then take off to attend the birth of a child. Where is the conflict here? What? Explain to me what your issue is. Okay.

Because I'll tell you, I'll tell you where I'm at, which is that Phil Kessel rocks. Uh, it would be completely hilarious if the one guy in the super fitness, everybody's training and eating like, you know, nobody eats any food.

Everyone's just eating, uh, you know, the soybeans and whatever. Yeah, whatever, Nate McKinnon eats. And the one guy, the one pudgy balding,

you know, guy who looks winded after every shift breaks the all-time Ironman record would be right up there as among the greatest stories in the history of the NHL. And how dare you cast aspersions on him for continuing the streak

simply because he only plays, played one shift. I think the story is Bill Fessel risk missing the birth of a child so that he could get his one shift in. That's how much the record means to him. And oh, by the way, almost scored on the shift, too. And how awesome would that have been? He was part of like a two-on-one-one and almost put it in.

But is it that impression? Arizona scored nine goals in that game. Yeah. Right? Inspired by who? Yeah, exactly. exactly no I'm you I love

Phil Kessel look man I'm I'm I'll put my cards on the table I think Phil Kessel is not not having ever met him or knowing anything about who he is as an actual person just as a player and a character in this this universe that we

pay attention to Phil Kessel is one of my absolute favorites I love the fact that he has just been beat up his entire career for all sorts of things, many of which don't make any sense. You know, he's, he was the guy you couldn't win with, but he won two cups in Pittsburgh and should have won the Kahn Smythe in one of them.

He's a guy who, you know, he's not committed to the game, but he won a Masterton. He's, you know, for coming back from cancer. He's a guy, you know, he was pudgy and out of shape and he doesn't work out. And yet he could very well go down in history as the all-time Iron Man. And he's just a phenomenal personality slash lack of personality. I would, if we're going to make a big deal out of these Iron Man records, I can't think of any more worthy person to hold it than Phil Kessel. And if that means that, you know, he's got a slip in a game here.

Look, it's not like he was hurt. It's not like he couldn't have played. He was incapable of playing. You know, it's not like he broke his leg and they just pushed him out there on, you know, pushing a garbage can around for a shift just for on the technicality. He, you know,

he, he could play. There was nothing that, that should have stopped the streak other than his own choice. And he chose to get out there and, uh, make it happen. And good for him and good for the coyotes for,

for making it happen and for getting him apparently a charter plane so that, you know, he wouldn't miss, uh, the big, the big moment. Um, to me,

this is a great story. There's, there's no conflict here. Okay. Let's, let's walk through. the conversation with Phil Kessel and his wife then. Yeah.

Let's play that out. Yeah. Like, how does that conversation go where he's like, listen, I just got to do this one thing. And then I'll be there for the birth of the child. Well, first of all, it's, you're, that, how did the conversation? Awkwardly, it's a Phil Kessel conversation. It was awkward. Now I'm thinking of Pierre McGuire and Phil Kessel.

Remember the awkward, how's my breath? Yeah. Yeah. That's what I'm thinking of now. I mean, your your version of the conversation is way too weird. No, I mean, she was probably like, Phil, what do you mean you're going to be playing and, you know, and he'll just be, I don't know. You know, I got, I got to play. I got to do a thing.

I'll be, you know, I don't know. And that's it. Why is Phil Castle like an old-timey 1920s guy? It was supposed to be like a kind of like a Wisconsin-ish accent. You're right. though. I did. I've only got two voices. I've got this regular voice and then I've got like 1920s old timey criminal that yeah, yeah, copper. See? Yeah, I'm going to play in the, that's, that's all I got. So just I, you know what? I put my, I put myself out there a little bit

and this is, this is what I get. Okay. I get it. So I just, okay. So, so Kessel's streak lives. but this is the only time he can do that, right? Like, he can't do this again, play his shift, and we're like, ah, no, no, no, the streak continues, right? Like, this is the one-off. This is it. This is the one time you get to do. Like, if Cal Ripkin, in his streak,

if Cal Ripkin came out a couple of times, just played an inning and left, you'd be like, ah, man, that's a fake streak, right? Yeah, if it was Cal Ripkin, yes. I, but, you know, Phil, yeah, I would agree. agree that, I mean, if it's, well, if it's, if he has another kid a couple years from now, I, I wouldn't have a problem with him doing again. But yeah, I mean, he can't be like, play a shift and then, you know, I go home and change a diaper. And then, you know, a couple days later, we got the, we got the appointment with the first doctor's appointment. And okay, now we got to go check out the daycare. Yeah, I mean, if he's doing it constantly, that might get a little dicey. But let's remember, I mean, Keith, what was the situation with Keith Yandel, right? Like his, his streak was going to end. Yeah. At the beginning. of last year and then it got like a reprieve because the games got pushed back and there was this sudden like you know at the last minute we all had the either the sympathy vote came in

and the the panthers put him back in the lineup um you know that this is you know who should have done this is steve larmer who lost his streak famously in a holdout and the nchel ruled that he didn't you know it it uh um he because he was eligible because he could have played he lost his streak He should have just showing up, done one shift a night and then been like, you know what? No, I changed my mind. I'm back to the holdout and then just go sit in the dressing room. I'm sure Mike Keenan would have been cool with that. That would have been fine.

Well, it's like when Patrick Marlowe had his streak and he kept it alive because he was a free agent. Remember the league was like, oh, he's a free agent. Yeah, where was your outrage with that? Why are you picking on Phil? Typical media. Typical media. All mad at Phil Casso. No, that one was, I mean, and that one.

Yeah, his Iron Man Street continued, even though he didn't play in games because he didn't have a team to play for. Versus Steve Larmer, where he wasn't a free agent, he was holding out, which meant he did have a contract, which meant he should have played. And then obviously, you know, Phil Kessel situation. And who was it? Was it, Cogliano? Who strike got snapped by a suspension? Andrew Cogliano? On a very shady suspension, like a borderline call, right?

where it's not like Cogliano had a history of that. And he got suspended for a couple games. And I don't know. I always think back and I'm like, come on. Like that's how his streak ended. That was a little weak for me. Okay. Yeah.

And I mean, it probably was. I don't, I'll be honest. I don't remember the in Fry. I don't want to sit here and say it was nothing. And then someone's going to send me a clip of him elbowing somebody in the head. But I thought, I just remember it being borderline. that's all. It probably, I mean, if it was only a game or two, then yeah, clearly it wasn't.

I mean, yeah, he didn't take a run all the way across the ice at somebody. But look, it's if we either want to live in a world where Phil Kessel holds the all-time NHL Iron Man record or we don't. And I know what world I want to live in. So either get on board. You got to, you want to make this omelet with me. We might have to break a few weeks. So I'm just saying, don't, you know, don't narc out on Phil's streak.

just be cool and we're going to get this guy to a thousand games. We're going to do it. Okay. I'm okay with the one free pass, but that's it. No more one-shift games

here for Phil Castle. That's it. You get one. You know what I'm concerned about now is when they trade him this season, we got to make sure he doesn't get traded to some team

that's like playing that night across the country. What do you think? There's got to be some, you know what? The fact that the coyote did this tells me that there would be some shenanigans. Like they would wait.

The coyotes and shenanigans? Yeah, yeah. Well, but these are good shenanigans. These were the proper level of shit. This is, I'm willing to wipe the slate clean on all the other stuff. Let's give them a drop pick back. Let's do it. Yeah, exactly.

It's totally. That's, I mean, I guess that was that was plan B, right? They would have just called the league up and renegotiated a new number for Keith's streak. Would that be, that's the way they were. They won't do that. They will, I'm taking that worry off the table. They will wait for an appropriate time to make the trade to make sure that Phil's,

Phil's streak keeps going. Because we got a, we got all pulled together and make this happen. You know what? You bring up a good point, too. Like, I think, tell me what you think here, because we're getting close to the March 21st trade deadline. I kind of feel like the league shouldn't play games on trade deadline day. I think it should be completely free and clear.

And not because of the Kessel streak or anything like that. But it's a good reminder that, you know what? Like a lot of people's lives are changing, players' lives are changing. Like, why don't just take the day off from games? You know? Just have it free. I mean, that's not a bad call. I've seen that a few times.

You know, I guess the flip side would be, hey, you know, we all sit around all day. The deadline comes at three. And then by the time you've had the wrap up, it's you want to get in and watch some hockey. Maybe what you do is you, you don't have any games at night, but you run the deadline at like 8 p.m. Turn it into a primetime thing.

I'm sure, you thought you'd be thrilled with that. Let them do 18 hours. Let's just, let's see how long this guy can go. But yeah, no, I'd be fine with that. And, you know, it's always a bit of a weird situation when you got teams that are, you know,

or they're just getting on planes or they're, you know, all this other stuff. Yeah, make it a day off. I'd be good with that. You know, the one thing I'd love to see, you'll probably never get it in hockey. And it's only happened once in baseball. And it was a utility guy, Joel Youngblood,

way back in the, I think in the 80s. He got traded in the middle of the day. But he got traded, I think, either from the Mets to the Expos or vice versa. And he played an afternoon game for the Mets and then played an evening game for the Expos. Again, I may have that confused. I remember this happening. It was Joel Youngblood.

That you pulled the name of the player. That's impressive because I didn't, I wouldn't have had that. Yeah, no, that would be, that would be great. I mean, it could happen, you know, if it was the New York teams or something like that.

It should be possible. But, and I don't even know if it's allowed in the NHL. Because it's not in the NFL. Remember there were, there have been situations where guys like played on a Thursday and got traded and they're like, can they play against? on Sunday and the answer was no, but I don't, I don't know in the NHL if it would prevent it.

I don't, I don't see why I would. That would be, that would be pretty cool if somebody could actually pull it off. It's right up there, there's that and the Dion Sanders Day are the two. Oh, yeah. The great when he played, which I, football and then baseball, it must have been. Yeah, football and then he showed up to the playoff game for the race. Got it a helicopter or something, right? Yeah.

Like, yeah, that was that, I mean, that was the all-timer. I don't think hockey would fit up there, but that would be pretty cool. And then Deon Sanders dumped a bucket of ice water and Tim McCarver, remember? I do remember that. You're a real man, Dion. You're a real man. I think that's what the- Poor Dion.

He's having a rough week. We'll go easy on. Yeah, good point. All right. Hey, listen, I want to get to Michael, like the Michael Bunting rookie of the year conversation, I think he's really interesting and really fascinating. Before we get to that, I want to ask. you this about Austin. Look, Austin Matthews is having no doubt about it, okay?

Heart Trophy caliber season. I want to ask you this because you're a Leafs guy. Doug Gilmore to me has always been like the, at least of my lifetime. Doug Gilmore, 1993 has been like the gold standard of like a Leafs player elevating his game, kind of dragging everybody on. Is Austin Matthews right now, has he surpassed? in your mind, like peak Doug Gilmore in Toronto in terms of what he's done? The short answers we don't know yet because part of that

Gilmore story was that not only does it go out and shatter the record for points, but then they go three rounds in the playoffs. Gilmore has 30 more points in the playoffs. He's playing 30 minutes a night. If Austin Matthews can put up that kind of a playoff run, then yeah, it is. Because, you know, Doug Gilmore was the only,

really was only that one year. The 93-94, he was very, very good, and then after the lockout, he dropped back down. But that was the only time in my life that a Maple Leafs player was legitimately in the best-in-the-world conversation. Now, part of that was because Wayne and Mario both missed big chunks of that season to injury. But even then, the door was open and you could make the case based on his defensive game and all of that, that Doug Gilmore was the best out there. And I've seen some good players, certainly over the years played for the Maple Leafs,

but never a guy in that conversation. And it feels like this year, Austin Matthews is just kind of dipping his toe into actually being in the real conversation for best player in the world. Not the contrarian. Like, you know, we used to do it for years of Sidney Crosby where every few years we pick somebody and be like, is this guy actually the best player in the world? Is it Drew Doughty? Is it Claudeau? and it never stuck. And then we do it with Connor McDavid too.

I don't know. We still got a ways to go before I think you knock Connor McDavid off the top tier there. But I think you could argue that if you had to play a game today for everything, that maybe Austin Matthews is the guy you pick over Connor McDavid just because not only is he a great player having a great year, but he's red hot right now. Yeah, no, it is. He's taking his game to another level. There's no denying that.

Matthews, of course, won the Calder trophy in his rookie season, and now a guy that's riding shotgun with him, Michael Bunting, is getting some Calder love, bunting leading all rookies and goals and points. And there's a lot of detractors here on Bunting, and it's because of his age, right? Like, bunting just missed the cut, like literally by 48 hours, right? He misses the cutoff of being too old.

But we can't, to me, we can't hold that. He's significantly older than Austin Matthews, who is in his sixth season. Yeah, but we can't, to me, like we can't hold this against Michael Bunting. Like he qualifies as per the rules, he qualifies. So to me, it's almost like Carillo Caprizov last year. I know there's some people saying, he's a bit older. But hey, look, if he qualifies, he qualifies.

If we want to change the rules, change the rules. But you can't punish the guy. But where I think Bunting loses me a little bit is like, and where I probably tend to probably lean towards more cider a little bit, or, you know, somebody else is, like, Bunting's playing with Matthews. Bunting's playing with Marner. Like, he's not carrying a line. He's a, he's a recipient, a better factor, if you will, of playing with arguably

the best player on the planet right now. And I wonder if we need to move the conversation from, hey, Michael Bunting's 26 to Michael Bunting's playing with the best parties in the league. That's why he's putting up the numbers. He probably shouldn't win rookie in the year. Yeah. So first of all, I agree with you on the on the age thing. I think there's there's absolutely a good argument that the age limit should be shifted down, but it isn't. And there's, you know, you and I, we both have voted on NHL awards and we know that there are some awards where there's ambiguity on what exactly they want us to be voting on, the Hart Trophy being the most notable of those. And it can be frustrating. There isn't on this. With the rookie, it's very clear on who is and who isn't a rookie. And there's, there's really, it's, it is not up to us to decide that, you know what, no, I'm not going to count this guy as a rookie or I'm going to discount him, you know, because of his age.

I felt the same way when it was Panarin and McDavid six, seven years ago, whenever it was. I voted for Panarin, even though obviously McDavid was the better player and the better prospect. He didn't have the numbers because of the games played, and I certainly wasn't going to put him up ahead of Panarin based on the age. As far as him playing with the best players, that's certainly something you can factor in. Certainly, if you want to make the argument that his numbers are inflated by playing with those guys, I would tell you, as a leaf head who watches a lot of leaf games,

it's certainly not the case that Matthews and Martyrs are banking goals in off of this guy's behind while he's just stumbling around out there. He's a really key part of what makes that line go. And the fact that that line lost Zach Hyman in the offseason, and a lot of people thought, you know, that's going to be a huge loss for the Leafs. And Michael Bunning comes in and arguably has been an even better fit, I think, is important. I mean, does he play with great players? Yes, that also means he's playing against great players.

That means he is playing on a line that is the focus every single night of the other team. Is he driving his own line? No, but is what he's doing more or less? impressive than somebody driving a third line that is facing other third line competition. That's up for the voters. I mean, if I had to vote today, I'd have Michael Blunting on my ballot. I wouldn't have them in first place. But I think it is important to remember the Calder Trophy is for the best performance by a rookie.

It is not for the best prospect, which would be a completely different conversation. Yeah. And it's also not for even like the best rookie. Like who which of these rookies is is the best player. It's about which one had the best performance. And that's not just about numbers. And it's certainly fair to say, you know, hey, maybe the numbers are inflated by who he's playing with.

But at some point, he qualifies as a rookie. He's putting up great numbers. At the very least, he may be moving to the front or close to the front of the votes for forwards. and then from there, you know, you can look at the defensive and goalies where you don't have to focus on the points a little bit differently. You know what? And you bring up a good point on Panarin too, because I think when Panarin came over, he was playing Patrick Kane, wasn't he?

That year that he won the Calder Trophy in, whatever, 2016. So, you know what, it's a fair point. It's a relevant point. And look, I mean, if we said right now, you know what, we just found a glitch in the CBA, every NHL rookie is released from his contract and we're going to have a draft and you can pick any eligible rookie to be on your team. Michael Bunning doesn't go on the top 10 of that draft of teams picking who they want to build around and all of it. Like nobody, no reasonable person is arguing that Michael Bunting has anywhere near the value of a Trevor Zegrois or a Moorzite or any of those guys in terms of building around for the future.

But again, that's not what the award is. The award is which player who qualified as a rookie this year was the best, was the best player and had the most productive season. And like it or not, Michael Bunning's in that conversation at least. I want you to write a column at some point in next two weeks and say, my Calder ballot is down to two. Michael Bunting and Alex Nadelcovic. That's right. So those two guys that we just let everybody flip right out. That's what I was hoping.

I'm bummed out that Nadelcovich is not really in the running this year because I think. think that would have been great to see him be a finalist again and just have everyone get really confused about how you can be a rookie of the year finalist two years in a row, which he is at least eligible to be. Yeah, he's like the third best candidate, I guess, from Detroit. Yeah, exactly. That's kind of the problem. You talk about splitting the vote.

That'll be it. Yeah. Want to talk about something. I know that Jeff Merrick and Elliot Friedman, I think they were the first to bring this up. So I want to give them credit on that with their 32 Thoughts podcast, which is terrific. But Jeff and Elliott brought up the fact that, you know, New Jersey, there's some rumblings going on around the league, Sean, that New Jersey would possibly look at terminating P.K. Suban's contract for the purposes of giving him his outright release so that he could sign anywhere he wants in and around the trade deadline. And the reason why this would happen is, look, Sue ban's carrying a $9 million cap.

pit. And I know the real dollars, I think, is it's six million, but the cap hits nine. It's impossible for any team to squeeze him in. So my question is, this would seem fishy to me, wouldn't it? Like, what are the devils getting out of this if they just cut ties with Suban? And then he goes in signs for 750 with Toronto or Florida or, you know, pick a team that might need a defenseman. Like, would that not strike you as a little bit shady? I mean, first of all, you've got to clarify what team it is, because if it's Toronto, it's fine.

And if it's Florida or Tampa, then it's obviously shady. And we need to step in and do something. No, look, I'm with you. I don't understand why the devils would consider this. And, you know, they, could they trade him? I mean, at that cap hit, if you're the devil is the only way you're trading him is you've got to retain 50% and then you probably have to launder him through another team that retains 50%. And then if he's down to two and change, maybe somebody does it.

But then who's giving up those picks to get the trade done? And it probably doesn't work in any scenario. But the devils are not capped out. And as you said, the actual salary is very low. So, I mean, they would save a few bucks, but it would only be a few. It's the extra cap room doesn't open them up to, do anything that they wouldn't otherwise be able to do.

I don't see what the benefit is other than, as I say, save a few bucks and maybe you just you say we're doing the guy solid. We're letting a player who he came to New Jersey. It didn't work out. We didn't get the player we were hoping to get. But the guy, he put in his time, he did the work where we're going to let him go and chase a cup somewhere. And you know, maybe you figure that's the right thing to do. Maybe you figure

that's going to make you more attractive to free agents down the line where they'll say, hey, I remember how they treat a PK. So I'm going to pick up the phone when they call. Maybe that's it. I don't know. And I can't imagine that the league would necessarily love this idea. I mean, we see this in the NBA. This is part of how the NBA transaction wire works, where after the deadline,

you see guys, you know, that's the next piece of roster building is guys being released and then signing elsewhere. where the NHL has never really had that. And I don't know if the NHL would, the league itself would want that. But if they don't object, maybe this is, maybe this opens the door to it. But I don't know.

I know some fans would object if they saw a rival or someone they're going to play in the first round, suddenly get a shot at a guy that they don't have to give up any assets for. Maybe it happens. I just, I don't see it from the devil's perspective. No, I don't either. The only thing I'm thinking is if that happens,

do you think that that means this is the end of the line for P.K. Subant? Like maybe he goes to the Devils and he says, this is my last year playing in the league. I have other interests. I want to do something else. I got one chance. Will you let me go?

Because then it would kind of make sense. But if he comes back next, like if he goes somewhere and signs for $750, and then comes back in the summer and signs somewhere else, you know, deal or whatever. Then I'd be like, I don't know. But if he's, if this is it, this is the end of line for P.K. Suban, he wants one shot. I could get on board with that.

I don't see any other scenario where I'm like, yeah, that, that makes sense from the, from the devil's perspective. Anyway. Yeah, I mean, maybe. Maybe that's it. And even then, there's, there's still nothing in it for New Jersey. But at the very least, you, maybe you feel like you're doing the right thing. I don't know. I, it's, it's, it's. The fact that, you know, that Jeff and Elliott put it out there suggests to me that this isn't just coming completely out of nowhere. So I guess it's something to keep an eye on. It would certainly add a new wrinkle to trade season and potentially beyond.

I guess we just keep our eye out and see if there's an angle to this that we're missing or maybe the devil's just do it regardless. Yeah. I also want one other thing I want to hit on too before we get into some fun. emails from listeners. and I also want to hit on your goalie quiz that you dropped this week on the athletic is we had an outdoor game

coming up this weekend again. It's Toronto and Buffalo and I don't know if a lot of people know this, especially in the United States. You might not realize there's an outdoor game Toronto Buffalo this weekend. And Wayne Gretzky, TNT has announced Sean, will be part of the broadcast crew.

So they're taking them out of this dude, taking the great one out of this studio plopping him into the analyst booth alongside Kenny Albert's going to do play-by-play alongside Eddie O and I think Keith Jones is part of it too. But I saw a note that said this will mark the first time that, you know, Gretzky is going to be in the booth. And I saw somebody saying that this might be the first time a Hall of Famer does analyst work on a national broadcast.

I thought, well, that can't be right. But then I was like, well, maybe it is right. Like, I know, like, listen, I work with Denny Potavan for a long time. That was on regional games in Ottawa. Dedy did a lot of Florida games too. And I thought, well, let me ask you this. Has there ever been a national broadcast with a Hall of Famer doing, like, because you watch the NFL, you'd be like,

hey, Joe Buck with the Hall of Famer, Troy, Ayam and yada, yada, yada. And I'm like, well, dang, maybe, maybe this was right. Is this the first time I'll Hall of Fame? And maybe our listeners could help us out here too. Like I was racked my brain. Like just as a game analyst on a national podcast. I'll give you one. Although, you know, it's Cassie Campbell has done.

Oh, there you go. And is she, but is she in the Hall of Fame or she this? I can't. I thought she was. I can't remember. But she certainly would be the, but in terms of, in terms of the men's game, I'm Sure. I mean, that's kind of always been the thing in the hockey world is that it's always the fourth liners and the backup goalies who are, who end up getting those media jobs and getting those opportunities. So, you know, all respect to Ray Ferraro and Mike Johnson and some of the others.

Mike Johnson, yeah, they haven't really been there. So, yeah, no, I. off the top of my head. I'm not convinced. I'm not convinced that they are. And I'm looking, by the way, Cass Campbell's not in the Hockey Hall of Fame yet. Probably this year is the year. So this is maybe where she gets beaten out by Wayne Gretzky just narrowly,

but certainly will have done it much more than he will. That's going to be interesting. Is he going to be in the booth or is he going to be between, like, are they going to put him down? They're not going to put Wayne Gretke between the benches. Wouldn't that be really distracted? Wait a second. First of all,

they're not going to put him. They put him in the back of a pickup truck for the Olympics. Okay, so it's, you know, Wayne Gretzky, uh, I don't know, man. They, they put him in a Hawaiian shirt and had him dance around on Saturday. So I don't think Wayne's not very good at saying, no,

I don't think that's a good idea of things. Yeah, it would be distracting. And how funny would it be if he just kept leaning over and high sticking Maple Leaf players as they went by and just going on like, what? No, what do you mean?

Me? No, that wasn't, that wasn't me. Sorry. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, well, maybe a listener can help us out.

Wayne Gretzky doing color this weekend for a national game. Again, Danny Potvan's done it. Phil Esposito used to do regional games, right? We just want to know, has there ever been a Hall of Famer that has done a national, like been a game analyst for a national. And a Hall of Fame player. We're not talking to somebody who was like a Hall of Fame broadcaster or something. Like Scottie Bowman did some game analysis, didn't he?

Did he? Okay. For that. But yeah, as a player, I can't, I saw somebody put it out and say this will be the first time that there'll be a Hall of Fame or doing color for a national game. But that can't be right. Which just seems so bizarre. I couldn't, I couldn't think of anybody else. I don't think, I feel like Jim Ralph didn't quite get there. He's got a Hall of Fame stories, though, Jim.

Yeah, he's got, he's, he'd convince you that he had, that he was in the Hall of Fame by the end of it. But, no, I don't think he quite got there. So that's a good question. It's going to be bugging me, but off the top of my head, no, I don't think so. Okay. Speaking of good questions, you had about 16 of them in your, you know, goalie quiz. Okay. So full transparency here.

I went 14 for 16, which felt really good. Okay? I felt really good. That's very solid, yeah. Because I'll be honest with you on about four of them, I guessed completely. Yep. And I actually guessed right. But I just need, without giving away any answers,

the great thing about when you do quizzes on Google, the way we do them, and I've done a couple of them, is then you can go and find out which has been the easiest question and which has been the hardest question. And I want to know, without giving away the answer, because I think your last question was the hardest question. That's, I got it wrong.

And I want to know, was that the hardest question you asked? That is statistically the hardest. the hardest question was on Gary's suitcase Smith, who I figured I had to include, but he's obviously a guy from the 70s, and I asked to give people a sense, if they haven't seen the quiz, of how it works.

It's very simple. I give you the player, I give you four teams, you tell me which one he never played for. So I said, Gary Suitcase Smith, Toronto Maple Leafs, Colorado Rockies,

Winnipeg Jets, California Golden Seals. Which of those teams did he not play for? And I will tell you the right answer, which I won't reveal, but the right answer is currently running third with 21.8% of the of the answers. There are two

two answers, wrong answers that are more common than that one. And I've heard from at least two people who told me that they went 15 for 15 and then lost the perfect score on the last question, which is the Dave, that's the Dave Steve of hockey quiz results. But yeah, that one is, there's quite a few where the percentage of right answers is under 50, but I think that was the only one where there were multiple answers,

wrong answers that were more common. It's funny. And for our hockey fans who don't know who Dave Steeb was, Dave Steve was a great pitcher for Toronto Blue Jays in the 1980s, who would always get to the precipice of throwing either a perfect game or a no-hitter, often to within one out away, and then watching it unravel thanks to like Roberto Kelly or some like rando player.

Still upset. Was it Roberto Kelly? It was. Yeah, Roberto Kelly broke up the perfect game. And he also did it twice, two times in a row. Back to back starts. He had no hitters into two out in the ninth inning and lost it. One of which happened on like a ground ball that like hit a pebble and bounced over, you know,

something or a seam in the infield and bounced away. It was just absolutely ridiculous. So, yeah, that's. But he did get it eventually. So, you know, if you're one of the 15 out of 16 scores on this, on the quiz, you know, hang in there. It's, maybe I'll, maybe it'll happen for you someday. I laugh because, like, Dave, Steve, always almost getting to a perfect game and then blowing it. Like, imagine if there was like a goalie in hockey that was like always just like a minute away from a, like a shutout and like always just let a coal in, right?

Well, I mean, there, there wasn't that, but there was, you know, people who, read my stuff regularly, probably know where I'm going with this. Jacob Markstrom came very, very close to setting the NHL record for the most games without a shutout to start an NHL career. He had at one point, I don't remember exactly the number, but he was, it was around 100 and he was like so far ahead of anyone else. There was like the next guy on the list of active players was at 50, and it was some guy wasn't even like he wasn't in the NHL anymore.

The highest number for an active NHLer was 20 games. and Markstrom was at 100, and he was closing in on the record, which I believe was held by Pokey Reddick. And Pokey Reddick was a good goalie, but he was an 80s goal. Shutouts were very, very hard to get in the 80s. And then Jacob Markstrom comes along in this era. You think it would be almost impossible. But he very often, I remember when there was a game against the Leafs, you know, he gave up the goal with three minutes left. He had had other games where he'd given it up with a minute left.

And I wrote a piece about it. And I said, this is the record you don't know is being chased. But it's out there. And Jacob Markstrom was at the time, I think, a week away from setting the record. And I closed the article. I said, now that I've written this whole thing, congratulations to Jacob Markstrom on getting his first career shut out tonight. And he went and he did it.

It actually happened on the day of the piece. And I didn't, I mean, it was Vancouver game. So I didn't stay up or anything. But I woke up to like 300, like, texts and Twitter messages and everything. Like, what the hell happened last night? And it was because Jacob Markstrom had... had pulled it off. So sorry, Poki. That was, no one was my fault. See, this is why I love about this podcast. I can drop a Dave Steve for a Steve reference.

You just got a great random thing. And I'm like, I wrote a piece about that once. You've got a great Jacob Markstrom story to follow it up with. The fun thing is whenever, you know, we're talking about something, I start to Google. And then I see it. I'm like, oh, that looks like that has the information. And then it's something that I wrote. I'm like, oh, yeah. Okay. Yeah, that's right. Oh, man. Who wrote this? What kind of idiot? Oh, never mind. Okay. Top rhyming combinations in the NHL.

Let me just... Well, I mean, you could have picked an example that I haven't actually done. Yeah. That would have been okay. Yeah, sure. All right. Hey, listen, let's open up the mailbag, shall we? Like I said, no Jesse Granger this week.

We'll get Granger things back and rolling, hopefully, next week leading into the trade deadline. But wanted to open this up here to a couple of emails that we got. A reminder, if you do have an email, you can always hit us up at the athletic hockey show at gmail.com. The Athletic Hockey Show at gmail.com. There's also a voicemail option, too. We'd love to hear from you.

Love to hear your voice. That phone number is 845, 445, 445, 845, 859. This week, no voicemails, all emails. This one's from Kellyn, says, hey, guys, to follow up in your conversation from last week regarding current players in the NHL who could be first ballot Hall of Famers. One person, I think, who should be in your discussion

that you didn't mention would be Duncan Keith, in spite of his current regression from individual awards and success of his teams, etc., etc., his peak, it would be hard to argue that he doesn't belong in that group when you look at his international and club play as well. What do you guys think about? Duncan Keith, slam dunk first ballot hall of favor. Yeah, again, if people didn't hear the show last week,

my criteria to say someone is a slam dunk first ballot hall of famers is pretty high. But, I mean, Duncan Keith is going to the Hall of Fame and probably on the first ballot, depending on who's up against him. I don't have any argument against that. This is this is one of the top 100 NHL players of all time. Let's not forget. Yeah, of course. According to the NHL itself. So, yeah, I mean, I think Duncan Keith, barring some sort of bizarre circumstances, is going to wind up in the Hall of Fame and I'd be surprised if he has to wait very long.

but I'm not willing to put him in the same absolute slam dunk Ovechkin Crosby category that we were talking about last week. But he's going to be in. But what's your different, like the thing that differentiates Keith and Drew Dowdy for you? Or is there a differentiator? Like are they both kind of in the same boat or do you feel like one's ahead of the other? I think they're probably around the same tier. I mean, you got both guys multiple.

Cops, Team Canada's, they both got a Norris. They'd be pretty similar guys. Yeah. And I wouldn't put Doughty as a slam dunk. Again, slam dunk first ballot Hall of Fame. Well, I mean, who know, maybe he could retire the same year. Crosby and Ovechkin do. And who knows who else is in the backlog. But Doughty's going to the Hall of Fame too. And he might end up going the same year as Keith. Nathaniel has written into the show. And Nathaniel says, Hey, guys, if you knew that there were going to be 30 trades in the weeks leading up to and including the NHL trade deadline, what would your preferred distribution of those trades be? Would you like one trade a day for a month or 30 trades trickling in right on deadline day or something in between that comes in from Nathaniel?

All I can think about, Sean, is this is like that question, you know, when they're like, Would you rather fight one horse-sized duck or 50 duck-sized horses? Yeah, it's, it's... What is your answer to that, by the way? Because I'm thinking 50 duck-sized horses is where I'm going. I don't want to fight one duck-sized horse. No? Yeah, no.

Well, yeah, one horse-sized duck. I fight the one duck-sized horse. I feel like that. Oh, yeah, the one-size-horse-old. Flip it around. Yeah, I don't want to fight anything, anything. horse size. I'm done on that one. Yeah. Yeah. Boy, how would I want 30 trades? Probably, I mean, I do maybe one a week

up until two weeks before the deadline, you know, just a couple to wetter whistle, maybe a couple in the last week where we're in right now. And then for the last week, you know, give me one a day, maybe bump it up to two a day as we go. I don't want a lot on the weekend before. I don't like those weekend trades, and this is probably partly because I'm like usually writing a trade deadline thing, and it's like, oh, this team needs to me.

Oh, they already did it. I do so many rewrites. I hate it's my least favorite weekend for writing the Monday piece. And then let's have as many as we can on the day up. We've trended away from that lately because GMs are realizing there's no reason not to make the move earlier, but let's

spread it out over the day. And then, yeah, like, and let's start them on deadline day early. Let's not do this thing where we wait till noon and nobody's actually making any trades. And, you know, next thing, you know, there's llamas running around the studio and all sorts of time killing stuff. I like, let's, you know, 10 a.m., we start doing two or three trades an hour and we ramp it up until we get to the end and really go out with the bank. You know, it's interesting. We're 10 days out from Trade Deadline Day, right? March 21st.

And I remember when Calgary traded for Tyler to Foley, we thought, okay, is this going to be like, is this going to start? Domino has fallen. Here you are. Yeah, it had. And I think it's interesting too because at the time we thought, well, that's a Western team making a move. Look at the Eastern Conference. All eight playoff teams are virtually set.

Like the buyers and the sellers, there's a clear line that separates them. And nothing has happened, really, with 10 days to go. Yeah, it's been slow. And, you know, maybe this is the stared. Everyone's waiting for somebody else to do something. I don't know. I guess maybe part of the problem is the fact that with the Foley trade, the fact that it was Calgary making the trade,

while normally you look in the division for the response and Vegas just can't do anything big to respond to that. Edmonton, you would think, could, but doesn't seem to want to for whatever reason. And, you know, L.A. might do something, but probably doesn't feel like they have to because they're playing with house money based on how well this season's gone.

Anyway, so maybe that's it. Maybe we need somebody, one of those Eastern teams who's in the playoffs but is fighting for position and already looking ahead to the playoffs to make a deal. And maybe that gets it going. Or maybe they're doing exactly what I just said.

I want them to do and everyone's, we're going to wait until the Monday and have a real good day that day. That would be fine. Yeah. Actually, we need you to write a column about how nobody's done anything. And then it's like your Mark's,

magic and then Exactly. That's it. That's exactly how it works. Okay. Chris from Switzerland, one more email here. Chris from Switzerland. Thanks for listening, Chris, by the way, all the way from across the pond.

Chris says, I'm always wondering why Yarmir Yager is overlooked when it comes to discussing the goats. Greatest players of all time. Yager's got five Art Rosses. And then if you look at it, he's top five all time in games played,

despite missing multiple seasons to play overseas in the KHL. He's fourth in goals. He's second all-time in points. And he's still playing at the age of 50. Why don't we talk about Yarrabir Yager more often as one of the all-time goats? Yeah, it's a fair question. I mean, I guess it would depend on what you mean by an all-time, all-time goat. I think he does get talked about as, let's say, a top-10 player of all-time.

you don't typically always hear him mentioned as a top five guy. In fact, I think even where this may be coming from is, I think we had a discussion a little while ago on the show. And I realized afterwards, I'm like, oh, I didn't mention Jaguar. That was the guy that I missed. So, you know, he's certainly right up there. And also is a very beloved, you know, figure in the game. And, you know, he's one of those guys that I think every.

fan base at this point is, you know, has as one of their favorites. Is he, does he have a case to be ranked ahead of Wayne Gretzky, Mario, Bobby Orr, Gordy Howe? No, I don't think he does. Now, you know, that five spot is kind of where the argument begins. I don't know that I put a winger with one MVP award in that spot ahead of, you know, some of the other guys who won two or three. but it's open for argument. And then, yeah, I don't think if you're doing a top 10 list,

you can get him much further down than maybe around 10th. And if that qualifies as being an all-time goat status, then he's got it. And if you're a little stingier with it, then maybe he's just on the outside. Like, where do you put, like if you, I like the idea of taking players at their all-time peak and say, you know what, give me the three best years.

of Gretzky or the three best years of, you know, whoever, or Lemieux, if you took the three best years of Yager, and I know statistically they might be dominant, but like, did you ever feel like, damn, like, that guy is generational? Like, that guy is, like, that's, that's the problem I have a little bit with Yager. Like, I don't know that he got to that level, if that makes sense. I guess the argument would be, did he not get to that level or did he get to that level and we didn't give him credit for it? Yeah, maybe. Just because, you know, we didn't understand what we were looking at.

He was, I mean, let's face it, he did his best work at a time where a lot of hockey fans still, you know, weren't willing to give full credit to a European player where, you know, even a Canadian doing exactly what Yarmriyager did would have immediately been in that conversation. I don't know. You know, it's hard to say. But I do know, I remember at the time where he was at doing some of his best work, certainly in Pittsburgh, where to a lot of us, he was just the flashy guy with the silly hair and he was doing this salute. Who does a salute?

You know, come on, Lynn. You know, this was the sort of guy. He wasn't, you know, he certainly wasn't ever a guy who dropped the gloves or threw hits or that sort of thing. But a lot of the other guys that are considered greats didn't do that either. But for whatever reason, we held it against Yeager a little bit more. I think there's a strong argument. You know, I even said, he only won one MVP.

There's a good argument that, you know, he should. to one more than that. He was the runner up, I think, three or four times. You know, maybe we didn't fully appreciate at the time until we got closer to the end of his career, just how amazing this guy had been. Yeah, it's a, it's a great debate because, you know, you don't want to, I think sometimes when we have these debates, sometimes you end up kind of slagging on somebody. I don't want to slag on you on. I think he was unbelievable. But I, I almost feel like he was like an Eiserman, Sackick, who was a little bit better and stayed around a little bit longer and it was kind of in that stratosphere rather than the Gretzky stratosphere.

The overall numbers get, yeah, I mean, the overall numbers get into Gretzky territory because of the longevity, which was unusual. But, and look, the other thing is, you know, Jagger's the sort of guy. He feels like he should be a top five player all time. You know, you look at his resume and you go, yeah, that's a top five guy. But the problem is, who do you knock out of the top five then? You know, was he better than Crosby? Yeah, maybe he was.

Was he better in Phyllis? who absolutely destroyed scoring records and put up numbers that nobody had ever seen before. Is he ahead of a goaltender or a defense? You know, like, was he better than Nicholas Litzrow? Was he better than Hachick? Like, suddenly you start realizing there's a lot more than five guys who feel like all-time top five guys. And that's why whenever I do a rankings or anything, any kind of list, I always tell people, don't tell me who should be on until you tell me who should come off.

You've got to take somebody out if you want to yell at me that somebody should have been in. And it's kind of the same with Yeager. We're blessed as hockey fans that there have been a lot of really spectacular players over the years. And the fact that if you're firmly in the top 10 of that group, that's a whole of a compliment. I don't think you're being insulted at all. All right. Listen, why do we wrap up the show as we always do with a little this week in hockey history? And somebody who he might not be in the top 10 all time, but he might make some people's top 20.

And certainly in terms of goal scores, he's top 10. that would be Brett Hall. March 7, 1988, the St. Louis Blues, Sean, acquired Brett Hall and Steve Bozac from the Calgary Flames in exchange for Rob Ramage and Rick Wamsley. The question I have for you is, and again, obviously, Hall goes to St. Louis,

ends up scoring 500 plus goals with the Blues, more than 700 in his career. Calgary, though, the next year, with Ramage playing a pretty big role in Wamsley being a backup goalie, they win the Stanley Cup. my question to you, because you love these what if scenarios. Do the Calgary Flames win the Stanley Cup in 1989 if they never trade Brett Hall?

Yeah. And, you know, the answer obviously is we'll never know. It's one of my favorite historical traits because it really stands out as, you know, I would say this is the most lopsided rip-off trade in the history of maybe even pro sports that the team that lost the trade would not undo if you gave them the chance. I can't imagine there's any Calgary fans out there who would take any risk of losing the one and only one championship in the history of the franchise, even if it meant getting, you know, the however many hundred Brett Hall goals he would have stuck around for. He did, you know, Brett Hall had been pretty good with Calgary that year.

He was having a good season. next year he breaks out and has his first 40-goals season puts up 80 points. So he was a very good player in 88-89. But in the late 80s, 40 goals and 80 points wasn't the sort of difference maker that it would have been today. And then it's the year after that he breaks through and starts putting up the ridiculous numbers, his stretch of three straight 70-goals season. So the 88-89 flames would not have been getting the full-powered Brett Hull. Um, they in theory could have been getting a better one.

Although we also don't know that Brett Hull turns into Brett Hull if he's still stuck in Calgary. Um, you know, we, we won't know. And, uh, look, Rob Ramage was a good player. I don't think Rob Ramage was make or break on winning you a Stanley Cup. And like you said, Rick Wamsley was a solid backup, but that's, that's all he was. Was a backup for that team. Um, there's a very good chance they still win the cup, but is it a sure thing?

Who knows? Like, you step on that butterfly and then, and then, and who, that's all he was a good. Who knows, you know, who knows what that does to the future. If I'm a Flames fan, I'm not touching it. I'm making that trade every single time. And if I know I'm getting my cup for sure, then I say, enjoy Brett Hull, St. Louis. We're going to enjoy our one Stanley Cup. Okay.

Let me throw one other one at you in a similar vein, a lopsided deal. And I know it wasn't as close in terms of proximity of time. But if you're a Boston Bruins fan and the. and the Thornton deal to San Jose. Oh, geez. Like, okay, but just hear me out. I set myself up for this. I know.

I'm saying, oh, geez, because I have complained about this, this take many times in the past. But hear me out. What do you do? If you're a Boston fan, would you go back in time and not trade Thornton and hang on to him? Because, okay, you get Thornton and maybe he's good,

but maybe Bergeron doesn't become Bergeron. Maybe Dave Crachie doesn't get a chance to develop. Maybe you don't go out and get Chara. that off season. Like, there's a whole bunch of domino effects. And I know it took five years, but you win that cup in 2011. What do you do? What do you do if you're brilliant?

Yeah, I mean, I don't know that I'm willing to go five or six years in the future. But, yeah, I mean, I guess, I guess there is that case to be made. And I know I've heard from many Bruins fans over the years who anytime I list the Joe Thornton trade as a bad one will break out the flow chart and tell me how Marco Sturm actually ended up being the key to everything. You know what? Sure. I'll allow it. I don't know that I buy it, but I'm not here to rain on anyone's Stanley Cup parade. So, you know, I get it. But I do think there is a significant difference between a trade one year out from a championship and one that was five full seasons to go.

All right. One other this week in hockey history, take you back to the 9th of March, 1980. And Gordy Howe with the Hartford Wailers ends up skating on a line in the same game with his two sons. Marty and Mark. And the question I want to ask you is when we think about great father's son moments in the big four sports, the one for me that I always think about is Ken Griffey, Sr. and Ken Griffey Jr. going back to back to hit home runs, Major League Baseball. So I want to know what's more impressive, Griffey Jr., Griffey Sr. going back to back yard, or the Howe family all skating on the same line in the same game? Yeah, I mean, that was pretty cool.

And obviously it was a little bit of a stunt. It was a chance to get some attention for a team that they could use it. But, I mean, the impressive thing was the fact that Gordia Howe was there at all and was still playing and not embarrassing himself at all in that last season. That one's right up there. You know what is my favorite Ken Griffey Senior and Junior moment? It's not even the home runs.

The fly ball. Do you remember this one where, you know, it's a fly ball and Ken Griffey senior is playing left field and he's got and he's there and he's got it. And Junior comes right in front of him and snap and with this smile on his face and just leaves his dad like standing there with his glove up in the air like waiting for a ball that's not going to come and he just kind of shakes his head and they run off together. That's always always my favorite.

But yeah, the Howe family is, that was impressive for sure. To me, I think the Griffey's hitting back-to-back home runs is more impressive because just the odds of that, A, that you would be in the batting order back-to-back and then B have the opportunity to go yard. But I will say if the Howes had teamed up on a goal, let's say Gordy scores with the assist from Marty and Mark, now you could talk me into that being more impressive. Yeah, and I don't think they ever did. I'm looking up Gordy's score. I mean, they wouldn't have very often because, I mean, first of all, we should point, like, Mark Howe was a defenseman, too. That was the other thing where it was kind of like, yeah, it's a gimmick. They're doing this for, it's a gimmick, but it was a, you know, it was a fun gimmick.

And it's, yeah, I'm looking at it. Let's see, did they ever get? So are you looking up Gordy Howe scoring logs? Yeah, I've got Gordy Howe's scoring logs. And there were a couple of Mark Howe goals assisted by Gordy Howe. I don't think there was ever one. No, there was never one with all three of them. But there were a couple.

In fact, the last goal, this is kind of neat, the last goal of Gordy Howe's career, which came in the playoffs against the Montreal Canadiens, was assisted by Mark Howe. It was Gordy Howe from Mark Howe was the last goal of Gordyhow's illustrious NHL career. That's kind of neat. I didn't know that.

Okay, see, there we go. We're learning new things. I don't even, yeah, that's weird. So 1980, the wheylers played the haves in the playoffs? Yeah, apparently. See, never know what you're going to stumble upon with hockey reference. Yeah, there's some, the one lone remaining Hartford Whalers fan who listens to this podcast has been screaming at his, the whole time.

But, yeah, I'll give you that one, two, three, four, five, six, seven. What are you counting? Seven goals, seven goals of which more than one how was in on the goal. So it, and it's. But never all three. But never all three at the same time. And they all look like their mark actually. Now I'm looking.

I don't know. The only point that Marty and Gordy Howe shared was the other Gordy Howe point from that playoff series against Montreal. So that's, it was a three game series, Montreal winning all three. And this came in a game two, an eight four halves win. But the last two points of Gordyhow's career came in the third period. Or the last came in the third period, Gordy Howe from Mark Howe. And also he shared an assist with Marty. So pretty cool stuff.

Marty Howe is a little bit like the Marion Stassney, right? Like this like, oh, yeah, there's a third guy. Yeah. He is, he's like, I mean, I don't even know if he's. Cooper Manning? Yeah, I see, I was just going to say he's somewhere in between Cooper Manning and Marrientzastin. Yeah, I don't, he's, he's, there's, there's always the third brother who's maybe not, not quite there. But it still, you know, had a, uh, a long professional career.

So, um, but did not, did not bring a lot of offense. It was also a defenseman, by the way. So, um, only scored two goals in his NHL career. according to this screen I'm looking at for the first time in my life. All right, we'll leave it there. Here I thought Dave Steeb leading into Jacob Markstrom was going to be the peak of this show in terms of sports analogies. But then I think we'll leave it with you saying, well, he's somewhere in between Cooper Manning and Mary and Stats. And it all came from a Ken Griffey question.

We're going to slowly transform this podcast. It's to a baseball podcast. You won't even notice. It's going to happen so slowly. I had a Joel Youngblood reference here. too. Yeah. We're going to podcast a thesis this thing into a major league baseball show and you're not

even going to be able to pinpoint when it happened. Amazing. All right. We'll leave it there. I want to thank everybody for joining us for this Thursday edition of the podcast. We'll talk to again next week where hopefully Jesse Grange will be able to drop by. As I said, you can always email us your questions to the athletic hockey show at gmail.com or leave us a voicemail at 845-445-845-59.

If you're not a subscriber with us, you've got a great opportunity to join us right now. We've got a great deal going on. A dollar a month for the first six months, just go to theathletic.com slash hockey show. You can also subscribe to the Athletic Audio Plus on Apple Podcasts and all of our bonus content from our entire network, including some fun trivia that we do when we're in charge of that. You can start with a 30-day free trial and then it's just 99 cents a month after that.