The Athletic Hockey Show - Philadelphia Flyers axe Alain Vigneault, and Charlie O’Connor joins the show, Vancouver Canucks clean house, Bruce Boudreau hired as head coach, Robin Lehner opts out of Olympics, Multiple Choice Madness, and more

Episode Date: December 6, 2021

First, Ian and Hailey discuss a tumultuous weekend for the Vancouver Canucks as the organization fired GM Jim Benning and head coach Travis Green following an 8-15-2 start to the season, and Bruce Boudreau being hired as the team’s new head coach, Robin Lehner opting out of Olympics participation with Team Sweden for mental health reasons, The Athletic NHL writers changing roles, and more.Then, The Athletic’s own Charlie O’Connor joins the show to talk about Monday morning’s breaking news that the Philadelphia Flyers relieved Alain Vigneault of his head coaching duties, Mike Yeo’s opportunity as interim head coach, whether coaching or roster construction, or both, led to the team’s dismal start to the season, Rick Tocchet as a potential next head coach option, and more.Plus, to close things out, Ian and Hailey run through a series of Multiple Choice Madness questions including who’s the best head coach to never win a Stanley Cup, who deserved the Hart Trophy a quarter of the way through the season, and if the Bruins should be allowed to use Tuukka Rask as their EBUG in an actual game.And, right now, you can sign up for an annual subscription to The Athletic for just $3.99 a month when you visit http://theathletic.com/hockeyshow Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

All right, welcome back, everybody. It's another edition of The Athletic Hockey Show to kick off your week. It's Ian Mendez-Hilly Salvean with you. As always, on a Monday. We've got a very newsworthy show on the docket today. After some big changes in Vancouver and Philadelphia, Charlie O'Connor, is going to drop by with his take on the Flyers firing of Alan Vino and, of course, a complete house cleaning in Vancouver.

We're also going to touch on Robin Leonard, bowing out of the Olympics and the free-falling New York Islanders. Speaking of the Islanders, they're going to have a new beat writer with the athletic. We had some changes of our own. It wasn't just a seismic weekend of changes in the NHL. We had a couple of moves internally. We'll have some fun with that, and we'll wrap up with multiple choice madness as we always do. And we talk about Tuka Rask being the emergency backup goalie in Boston. Is that passing the smell test for us, or is that offside?

So we'll get to all of that and more in the next hour or so. But as we say hello to Haley Salvean, got to ask you this question, Haley. We got hammered with snow in Ottawa today. To the point where the school buses were canceled, our kids didn't go to school. My question to you is when you were a kid and there was a snow day, did your parents make you go to school? Because the schools stay open.

When the buses are canceled in Canada, usually the schools are open, buses are canceled. We keep our kids home, but I know of people who send their kids to school. Was Haley Salvean in school on a school? on a snow day. Well, do your kids go on the bus? They do.

Okay, so I never had to go on the bus. I lived in Fergus. So usually the kids who got, like, when I moved to Fergus, a small town in Ontario, I think there was like 7,000 people. So the people who got bused into school were the ones who lived, like,

really far, or, like, on a farm somewhere, or, like, maybe in one of those little random towns that have like one street. So I was never bused in. I was like really close to school. So and so I would always go to school on the no bus days because they would be like easier school days.

My parents ever forced me, but I just always went. I thought the no bus days were kind of fun. I was a little, a little nerd child. So yeah, I always went to school because I liked it. Did the teachers hate you though?

Because they're probably thinking, I got an easy day. In hindsight, maybe. Yeah. That's what I think. Maybe they did. I was never the only kid that showed up, though. Like, I don't know, because there were so many kids that didn't bus in,

like it would still be decent. And you could, like, work on extra stuff or, like, do fun stuff. You can go in the computer lab. You get extra time in gym class, all that fun stuff. So, yeah, I was one of the kids I would go to school. As I got older. out and you get those days, you're just like, yes, I'm going back to bed. I'm not going to school.

Like when I was in grade school, I would always go. High school, not so much. See, I wonder now as we move into remote learning, because now every kid in North America is set up probably with the ability to attend school virtually. Is that the end of snow days? Now if it's a snow day, maybe they just get together on Google, Google classrooms or something like that. Yeah.

Maybe they just have class. Yeah. That would suck. No, that's like, that's the thing though. You know, I don't know. I'll say, I don't know if you ever did this or if your kids ever do this. But like, I would always think, you know, when you go to bed and it seems like there's a storm coming or the weather's really bad and you go to sleep hoping that you're going to

wake up in the morning and the buses are canceled and it's a snow day. And you wake up and. it's really snowy and you're told that it's a snow day. I don't know. That's kind of like a nostalgic remembering that. Just like, wee. I'm going to go to school anyways. There's an app now.

My kids made me go on it on Sunday night. It's called Snow Day predictor. So you go, you punch in your zip code or your postal code. And it'll tell you the percentage chance of school being canceled. And it came back at 99%. And my kids were like, yeah, this is awesome. So I told them, don't set your alarms. If there's school, I'll wake you up, otherwise just sleep in.

So they got a snow day. All right. So listen, I know we like to have some fun with some non-hockey stuff, but people are here for some hockey talk, Haley. And there is a lot to get to on this Monday. Let's start out in Vancouver where it was a tumultuous weekend. And it kind of felt like it reached a boiling point, didn't it? Saturday night against the Pittsburgh Penguins at Rogers Arena in Vancouver, where you could see people tweeting out. There was a fire-bending chant that kind of echoed.

through the stands, a fan through their Canucks jersey onto the ice. It was picked up by Brian Dumlin of the Penguins. And the way he picked it up, it almost felt like this sort of symbolic moment that is going to be burned. And Thomas Drance, who writes for the Canucks for us with the Athletic, kind of used that to launch his piece, that it's felt like this sort of seminal moment. How much of a factor do you think the angry fan base in the building and sort of this palpable feel of anger and negativity marketplace finally led to some change in Vancouver where Jim

Benning is out and Travis Green in the rare double takeout. Yeah, well, I think it sounds like, I feel like we probably could have seen a lot of this coming sooner. Like I think, you know, Thomas did a, it's weird to call him Thomas. I feel like I always call him Drance. It sounded so strange. Trance wrote this really great piece. I guess it was only a week ago now.

It feels like it was so long ago just with everything that's happened around the league and with the Canucks. But, you know, just talking about how it was an open secret that the Vancouver Canucks were looking for a new head coach to replace Travis Green. And that there was attempts to hire a replacement. there were people that Jim Benning had in mind, and he was essentially told, no, like, you're not making that hire. And I think, as Drant said in this most recent piece, like, that was the moment where everyone was like, well, he's done. Like, you're being told, no, you can't hire the guy that you want. That's, like, that's essentially not your team anymore. You don't get to pick the head coach.

It's not your team. It's not your move. So there was like openly open reports looking for Travis Green's replacement before he was even let go from the team. And the GM's not being allowed to make that choice. So I think a lot of, I think people were still skeptical if they would completely clean house the way that they did. But we probably could have seen those breadcrumbs leading us to this. And I think one of the things Dran said really well, Elliot Friedman said it. last night after he broke the initial news that Bruce Boudreau was going to be hired was the moment like that,

you know, the fire Benning, the Jersey, you know, you're leaving guys like Benning and Travis Green just flapping in the wind. And I do think that those are moments where you're like, we've got to put an end to this for their sake, for our fans' sake, like that's it, that it's done. Yeah. And for me, like my initial reaction, when I saw the original Elliott Freeman report about Boudreau, I was like, I felt so bad for Travis Green because last season was a gong show as well in Vancouver. And Duran did a great job covering how people like Travis Green were kind of hung out to dry. And then this year, he kind of hung out to dry again. He's flapping in the wind. They're openly looking for his replacement before.

letting him go. He obviously had to know this was coming to just this. What a horrible situation. And I'm sure, I'm sure that he did not find out he'd been fired via Twitter. I do, I truly believe that he had probably been told before that got out. But just the whole sequence of events. I know Travis Graen's making a lot of money. He's a good coach. He's good X's and O's coach. He's good at managing his bench. He's good. going to land on his feet. He's going to get another NHL job. But that whole situation was just bad. And I'm sure I know there's a lot of fans that are happy that this is over. But I felt bad for Travis Green. But to answer your initial question, because I'm rambling again here, but I think

that moment in that game with the firebending and the jersey toss, that was probably like the emotional. Like if you have a heart and this now, it's done. Yeah. Yeah. No, it's, look, Vancouver is one of the most emotional rabid fan bases that you're going to find in North America. Like they are passionate. It's a half century, right? A frustration.

You feel that in Buffalo. I think you feel that a little bit in Philadelphia. These are places that have had teams and haven't, you know, Philly's won a couple of Stanley Cups, but not since the 70s. So you're closing in, again,

on 50 years of not winning. And at some point you reach, you reach a boiling point. It felt like we got there on Saturday in Vancouver. Now, here comes Bruce Boudra. And I think this is really interesting, Haley. First of all, I love the fact that I don't know if you retweeted it or responded.

I had never seen the footage of Bruce Boudreau dropping a mean girl's quote on the ice. Like I don't know what the context was of him saying, stop trying to make fetch happen. But that was amazing. It was October 3rd. So, yeah, I think we got the audio here. We'll play this. This is Bruce Boudreau when he's the head coach of the Minnesota Wilde, skating over to bench and delivering this, this, you know, this, this great line from, from mean girls to,

to, uh, to the camera. Hey, quit trying to make fetch happen. So, Haley, you're saying he did that on October 3rd? Yeah. So the Minnesota, why. So like, obviously the mean girls thing is like, yeah, it's October 3rd. Like, it's, I don't know how to explain it. It's the freaking mean girls thing. That's October 3rd. And so I guess I'm sure the Minnesota wild social person was just like, Hey, Bruce, can you come skate over and say this to me, please? And he just did it. So that video was posted by my best friend. She used to be my boss with the Oswald Generals.

She's now the social media manager for the Vancouver Canucks. And so once all the news came out, everything's confirmed, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, that Bruce Boudreau is the new head coach, Vancouver Canucks. I love it. She had found this video and was like, like, oh my God. Because you're a social manager and you see that the head coach is like quoting mean girls after morning skate or whatever.

And Boudreau has that fun. He's more loose. He's more easygoing. He's got that personality. We've seen the clips of him. So that's kind of like a social media manager's dream. And I'm sure that's going to be, you know, it's probably going to add a layer of fun for the fan base and even just make this really weird and difficult season.

maybe a bit easier for the players. And that's not a shot at Travis Green, but every coach is different in their approach and their personality. And Boudreau seems to be, I mean, he can be a hard ass. We've seen the clips of him from 24-7. But he does have like a more easygoing approach.

So I'm sure it'll be a bit more fun. Yeah, no, he does. He does have a little bit more of a, you know, I'll call it a fun uncle vibe to him, right? Like he's, you know, he probably lays down the law a little bit. Just like if you had a fun uncle, right? The fun uncle is going to treat you well. But the odd time, they may have to, you know, tell you not to do things.

But here's the thing on Boudreau. Whenever he takes over a new team, Haley, he almost always has instant success. We always remember his first year in Washington. He comes in kind of right around this same time of year in December and turn them around. They just had this unbelievable turnaround. Ovechkin has his big season. They win the division. They came out of nowhere to, sorry, to make the playoffs.

He goes to Anaheim. I know he didn't have as much time there, but then his first full season in Anaheim, he makes the playoffs. His first full season in Minnesota, he makes the playoffs. He's got this kind of Midas touch thing going. Wherever he goes,

he turns around programs. My question is, is it realistic to think? There's a lot of track left, so we can talk about it being this season, or next season. Does Bruce Boudreau, Haley, turn the Vancouver Canucks into a playoff team? Yeah, I mean, it's, I feel like it's too soon to really say because Bruce Boudreau was taking over the team that Jim Benning created. And throughout this season, we've talked about some of the mistakes that have been made, like, you know, not taking,

taking advantage of the fact that you had Elias Pedersen and Quinn Hughes on entry-level contract and investing in players that could get you to win in that window where you have two players who were elite in their position making so little money and you could have reinvested that money into players who could help you win and then there. That's always, you know, such a helpful ingredient to winning a Stanley Cup in the cap era as making little moves like that and investing money in aging players, the wrong depth pieces. the wrong veteran players, even getting rid of people like, I mean, you know what, I can understand the Jacob Markstrom one because Thatcher Demko was really good and he has been really good, but like

letting go Chris Tanev and little moves like that. He built this team to where they are over the last eight years, and that's what Bruce Boudreau is picking up. So I'm sure they're going to get a new coach boost. I'm sure he's going to make things better, but he's still working with the same bunch of players. And I think it's interesting that they gave him, he's here this year and next year, which means whatever general manager they do end up hiring will not get to have his own coach next season. Yeah, but you know what, Haley, on that front, sometimes general managers like that

because it gives them a free pass. Like they get to come in, assess the situation. and if it's not working out, they'd be like, wow, this Boudro wasn't my guy. And then they get at least one free spot in the bingo car. And then they get their guy. Right? Yeah. Then they get their guy.

And like usually a general man, I think, I don't know, you tell me if I'm wrong. I think usually a general manager, depending on some other circumstances, usually gets at least two coaches to hire before they, maybe a lot of the heat gets turned on them. Right. So maybe if you're a general manager coming in, you're like, I'm okay. I'm okay if I'm inheriting a coach, especially one with Bruce Boudreau's resume. Yeah. Like he's second all time and win percentage for a coach who's been behind the bench for that many games. He's a guy who wins everywhere.

So I think if you had your pick of coaches right now on the free agent market, boy, Bruce would be near the top of the list anyway, right? Yeah, I think so. And yeah, that's not to say like whoever ends up getting hired is generally to be like, this rookie coach or this mean guy, et cetera. So I just thought that was a little bit interesting that dynamic, whoever comes in, it's not going to be their guy, but that's not always the worst thing. But I think it just, to your original question, Ian, on can he make them a contender?

I think it just depends on if you believe that the problem with this team was the way that they were built by a gym. Benning was the big problem or the way that they were coached through Travis Green. Like, if you believe that they just needed a fresh voice, a fresh start, a fresh set of eyes on this roster with different systems in a different way to maximize players, then I think you can like pick your own adventure here, right? Like, if that's what you believe, then yeah, you can definitely look at this group and say, I think Bruce Boudreau can take them to the next level. they just needed something different.

It's like Daryl Sutter, the flames did not make sweeping changes this off season, but they brought in a coach who's been able to maximize the players and play a style that works. And so we're seeing Daryl take a roster that a lot of people didn't believe in and do well. You know, I think a lot of people have spoken really highly about Travis Green's X's and O's and the way he maximizes players. Obviously, that's the thing. I don't know if that got stale or if the players weren't responding or if it was just Benning building a bad team. So like I said, it's kind of pick your own adventure and I'm just not

prepared to pick one yet because the team is somewhat similar next season. Like everyone except for Brad Hunt is locked in on their blue line. So you've got Quinn Hughes, Ekman, Larsen, Tyler Myers, Tucker Pullman, Luke Shen back next year. You've got Thatcher Demco again next season, which is great. You've got Pedersen and Horvatt, J.T. Miller, Connor Garland, Jason Dickinson, Tyler Mott's, probably the main UFA and Alex Chesson on the forward group. Like, it's the same group next year. You're looking at pretty much the same Vancouver Canucks unless they fire sale at the trade deadline this year and make sweeping changes in the summer. So you're really believing that Bruce.

Bruce Boudreau is the one that can take the same group, barring any changes and make them work. So I don't know. And the rumors on who might take over as general manager, I think, are interesting. Because as it stands right now, it's kind of like a group of them, Stan Smeil is part of it, the Sedeens. Kind of they're just going to serve, I think, as sort of caretakers until the full-time general manager comes in. A couple of interesting names were floated out. Greg Wyshinsky of ESPN floating out, John Shaka, who of course was general manager in Arizona before being suspended by the NHL. I believe that suspension runs through the end of the calendar year.

So technically, if John Shaka is their guy, that would be a January 1st hire. The other name that was thrown out by Ryan Kennedy of the hockey news on Monday, Haley, is an interesting one. It's Mark Bergevent. And, you know, I think that this would add a lot of credence to the theory that there are only like 33 or 34 general managers and 33 or 34 coaches. And it's just one big game of musical chairs with like the odd. guy gets kind of squeezed out, but that's it. Like, this would be classic recycling if Mark Bourgevin ends up in Vancouver, right? And like, these reports are always outstanding to me.

We had this conversation before we started recording when we initially were like, did you see that report? Benning just got fired. Mark Bergevin just got fired. Like, and it's just like, oh, well, you know, I think he's interested and maybe he's a candidate. Like this, what do you mean? Like, we're really going to, you're going to invest in a person who just got fired for inadequately doing the job less than a week ago. That's what we're doing.

That's what's going to turn the thing around. Welcome to the NHL. That's kind of the way it's done, right? I know. And it's so bizarre. And, you know, John Shaker is coming off of a suspension. And you're going to hire him immediately once that expires because the coyotes did so well before he's. he tried to leave and got suspended, that's your top candidate? Is that what we're doing? Like,

surely, you know, I'm not even saying think outside the box like crazy here. Just find someone who's done the job properly in the past or someone who could do it properly in the near future, who might not have the GM experience, who has experience in a front office, who can do the job. I floated this name in my column that's coming out this morning here in Calgary. This isn't like an outside the box option. This isn't like, you know, a Florence Shelling kind of proposition here. Right. But I did raise Craig Conroy as somebody who came to mind to me last night.

He's the assistant general manager of the Calgary Flames. He's been working in the Flames front office for 11 years. he had over a thousand NHL games. He's done a bit of everything. He's done the contracts. He's done free agent signings. He's done the draft. He did the minor league affiliate.

So he knows the game as a player as a front office person. He was a finalist for that Sabres job in 2017 that Jason Botterill got. And so I raised, I was like, why not Craig Conroy? Like, why not give a guy who has been in the National Hockey League in some capacity? longer than I've been alive. His first season in the league was in 1994. Why not give someone like, even just someone like that a chance

over somebody who has recently been fired for not being good at their job? I know. I know. Give new people chances, please. Right. That's just it. Get, get,

it's, the hockey world is an echo chamber. And it's the same 32 guys. or 34 guys, they just change seats and then a couple of them get phased out. It's like a game of musical chairs. So listen, we'll see how that happens in Vancouver. So changes in Vancouver. We'll get to some changes in Philly when Charlie joins us.

Charlie O'Connor here to talk about the Alainvinio situation. But I want to talk to you for a second about the Islanders because it feels like this is the time, Haley, where teams are making changes. The Habs did it. The Canucks did it. The Flyers did it. What do the Islanders do? This is a team that's been to back-to-back Eastern Conference.

finals. I think it's fair to say that there were some expectations that they would be back in that realm again this year. And instead, they're sitting at the bottom of the standings in their division. Bottom of the standings pretty much overall. It's been a disastrous season. How much of a fact, there's two pieces of adversity that I think the Islanders have faced. Obviously, they've been hit pretty hard by the COVID-19 bug and had a couple of games postponed. But the other Haley's that they started the season with 13 consecutive roads. games. And now they've lost 11 straight games. They look like a shell of themselves. I don't know where they go. I don't know what they do. But what's going on with the Islanders here?

Because I might say that they're the most disappointing team of the season. Yeah. Well, I think there was a lot of people who were kind of predicting them to win the cup this year. Right? It's like they're finally going to get there. You know what? They've they've made it past the first round. They've been strong in the playoffs. This is the year. Similar core. Same coach. same architect, they're good, and they haven't been. And yeah, it's like, is it, is it the road swing? Is it the COVID? Is it the fact that you do have some players within your core who, like, can we call them aging? Like, they've got some older pieces in their core, but they've also got some young studs like Barzell who are just underperforming. Like he, his output has not been

where it typically is. I was looking into him when I was doing my piece on Andrew Mangupani's case for the Olympic team. And it was like, looking at Matt Barzell, like, he hasn't been great this year. Yeah. And he's a big part of that team. Like, that's your top line kind of cornerstone player who hasn't been playing up to that level in terms of his offensive production, like his actual production hasn't been there.

I feel like it's probably a combination of things. Barzell's not going. They have certain lines that aren't going. Like, you just have pieces that maybe aren't working. And they were completely depleted by COVID. So I find them a hard team to analyze in that sense because you have so many different things that's impacting them. It was like with the Sends, when they were going through, they had multiple injuries, players who were snake bitten, and they were hit by COVID. And it was just like, and Brady Kachuk had missed the start of the season. So it's like, how do you properly look at this team and say what they are when you've got all this different stuff happening that's impacting the result? But it's not like one thing more than the other. And I think the Islanders are in kind of a similar spot. it's just a lot of stuff is off the rails at the same time and they can't get it all going at once.

Yeah. Yeah. And missing Ryan Pulock, I think, is a big deal. So it's interesting. We're going to talk about the Islanders here because Haley, with the Athletic, they've got a new beat writer. Okay. And it's, do we call this like a, does it almost feel like it's a three-way trade here that has occurred internally within the athletic? So the islanders now have a new people.

It's probably more than that. Kind of, right? Because it started with Arthur. It started with carp. We've got to trace the tree. Yeah, you've got to trace the trail back. What's happening? Yeah, because Rick left the Rangers beat and then Arthur's staple took over that

in kind of a larger role. But anyway, so here's how it shakes down. Now I feel like we're explaining a three-way trade. But so here's how it breaks down. Kevin Kurz, who was covering the San Jose Sharks, is now covering the New York Islanders for us. Corey Massassack, who was covering the New Jersey Devils,

has now gone out to San Jose and is covering the sharks. So now that you're thinking, okay, well, that leaves the whole who's covering the devils. Enter Shana Goldman into the picture. She's going to be writing about the devils. And as well, like, you know, she's so good at writing about, I mean, she does a lot of Rangers stuff.

So I think that's going to be part of her umbrella too. But the analyst, and the fantasy side of things. She is such a talented writer. So it's great to bring her into the mix full time. So again, Kevin Curse to the Islanders, Corey Massacque to the Sharks, Shana Goldman,

basically to the Devils and a little bit of a bigger picture there. So that's how it all settles down. Here's my question for you, Haley. You made a switch. You changed beats. You were in Ottawa, went to Calgary. What's the one piece of advice

you would give somebody who is switching beats to go cover a brand new team within the NHL. Be patient with yourself. I know, like, there's more, like, funny, stupid little things that you could say, like, get a good pillow. I don't know.

It's going to be sad. Get comfortable. I don't know. Get comfortable in your house alone. Because I moved across the country by myself. But anyways, I think, like, just be patient with yourself because especially within the context of the way that these seasons are, you can't just go in the locker room and introduce yourself to people. I found the transition to being the first time

on the Sends beat was intimidating because it was my first year in the NHL. And it's your first time in a locker room and you're like, oh, like shit, that's Bobby Ryan. I watched him on television when I was growing up, you know. It can be a lot when it's your first time when you're like. you're younger. But in that sense, you could just go up and say, like, hi, my name's Haley. I'm new here. It's nice to meet you. I'm here with the athletic. Blah, blah, blah, blah. You can have a conversation face to face with someone and get to know them before you have to start doing the job, which makes the job so much easier. And you just get to be there. And you can do all the prep in the world.

You can read about the team. You can look at stats. But there's certain things that you just don't pick up until you're there for a certain amount of time. You're in the rank. You're talking to people casually, you're face to face, people get to know you, just being there is such a huge part of just getting good at owning that beat. So like it takes time to get to those spaces and a little bit more time with the way that we're covering these teams during the pandemic. And it takes time to get the trust of the fan base too, especially when fans have been, you know, really happy with who they had before or they don't know your work, they don't know your voice, they don't know your style, just be patient. Don't read the comments if it's overwhelming.

Talk to people. And these guys are all such good writers. They don't need that advice, honestly. Like, I don't think Kevin Kurz or Corey Massassasak need to know what's going on in terms of how to work a locker room and how to be beat writers. And Shane is such a talented data dream. in journalists that she's going to be able to do good stories on that new beat, and they're all going to do a great job, and they're all going to be okay. And it's exciting. I know for Kevin specifically, like, he's from Philadelphia, so I'm sure it's really exciting for him to get back out east and get back home. And Shane is finally full time. She's been freelancing here. Like, since the Rangers, we started covering the Rangers for the Athletic. So it's been a long time

coming. Her piece was funny. She was just like, this is like when you get your call up. But like, I'm not, I'm not a first round pick. Like, I'm not, I know how people treat young stars who don't perform well. Like, I'm not, I'm not a top, top six stud. Like, just let me be in the middle six and just be okay. And she's great at what she does. And I think all these fan bases, they've lost someone, but they've gained some really good reporters in their place. It's going to be great. One other thing I want to hit on here on this Monday show. Look, we've, debated whether or not we're going to see NHL players end up at the Winter Olympic Games, Haley, in Beijing for a myriad of reasons, not the least of which I think are COVID concerns.

We have our first high-profile NHL player announcing that he will not participate in the Beijing games, and that is Vegas Golden Knights Goaltender Robin Lennar, who has notified the Swedish Olympic Federation that he will not accept an invitation to participate in the Olympic Games. We figured Leonard would probably be in the mix to be a starting goalie for Team Sweden, Jacob Markstrom. Jacob Markstrom, of course, I think, would certainly elicit the starter's job potentially as well. So there's a lot to unpack here.

But I think it's interesting. Leonard did get on Twitter Sunday night and say that he made the decision for health reasons after an extended conversation with his therapist. He basically said, I'm just going to find the tweet here. He said, quote, I'm very disappointed. It was a tough decision for me as it's a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity. reality is what has been said about how it's going to be. It's not ideal for my mental health.

My well-being has to come first. And being locked down and not knowing what happens if you test positive is too much of a risk for me. Sweden will have a great team and Markstrom is a beast. Hope people understand. That's from Robin Leonard. Robin, of course we understand. We empathize. I think for the most part, people are quite understanding of Robin Leonard's approach to this.

But I wonder if this is going to be the first of many. players, Haley, who start to think, you know, if they tell us that we test positive and now we've got to be locked up in a room in Beijing for 14 to 20 days and we're not going to be able to get out, this ain't the Olympic experience that I grew up dreaming about of being in a village and seeing other athletes. And this is not the Olympics you dreamed of. So I wonder, is this going to be the first of an avalanche of players who say, thanks, but no thanks. Yeah, I don't know if it's going to become an avalanche of players because I still think that there is that, especially because they didn't go to the last Olympics, and this was such a huge piece of the CBA negotiation. Like, this was a major thing that players wanted to go to the Olympics.

It's been a major talking point for a long time. So I do think there's probably going to be a majority of players who are still focused on that goal. but we have heard. I know Emily Kaplan reported a couple of weeks ago. It was an anonymous player who said there's people who are afraid of what happens if you test positive and you're stuck in Beijing for three weeks. Those are legitimate fears for players and for Olympic athletes. And, you know, we did see some players in the summer Olympics, some athletes, excuse me, for the summer Olympics who could have been. been like top tier in their sport, not go. It happened in golf. A lot of tennis players didn't go,

I believe. One WMBA star, Liz Cambage, didn't go due to mental health. She was in Australia, completely locked down for a long time. She opted out of the WMBA season that year. She didn't go to the Olympics for Australia for mental health reasons and, you know, just being locked in your room in the Olympic village being shuttled to the arena. That's not the experience you look for. And, you know, the fears of getting COVID. Like, it was very similar, I believe, to why Liz Cambage didn't go to the Olympics. So these are, there's athletes who had been voicing concerns like this before in different

sports. And I think this just shows, like Robin Leonard continues to be a force in hockey in terms of being open and honest about his mental health. in terms of what's going on in his life and his career, voicing those opinions through the media. I think he told media members after the game that Jesse Granger had the quotes, and then he went on Twitter. This is just an incredibly open and honest athlete. And he drives important conversations about mental health.

And this is also about, you know, physical well-being and a global pandemic still, too. And he always seems to be at the forefront of driving those conversations. So I don't know if we're going to see an avalanche of players saying, I don't want to go either. I wouldn't be surprised if there's players who do opt out due to those fears. Because what happens if you do get COVID at the Olympics and you have to miss three, like a week or two weeks of the NHL season, is that like a, is that, okay, well, you chose to go so you're forfeiting money? kind of like how Bertuzi's not making money because he was on COVID protocol. Like I don't know all those rules. Like maybe if they put players wallets on the table again,

they're going to be like, okay, well, never mind. So I don't know how it's going to shake out, but it feels like every week when we have the Olympic conversation, we edge a little bit more and more towards what's this going to look like and how is this going to happen and is it going to happen. All right, Haley, we spent some time talking about the changes to the Vancouver Canucks. was a double takeout. What happened on Monday in Philadelphia was more directed behind the bench. Alan Vino is out. Charlie O'Connor does a terrific job covering the flyers for us with the athletic

and is taking some time after that press conference here to join us on this Monday edition of the athletic hockey show. First of all, how is Charlie doing on this Monday? Doing great. You know, it's always fun when, you know, a team that is in free fall actually does something and there's something to write about that isn't about just a another demoralizing loss. So for me, I mean, certainly an eventful day. Obviously not a great day for for Lane Vino or Michelle Tarian, both of whom were relieved of duties earlier this morning. But for the Flyers, you know, this is a team that just kind of was falling apart. And it had become really over the last week or so, I would say, it became less a question of if there was going to be a

coaching change and really more just a matter of when. And, and it happened to be today after they lost seven to one to Dayton Bay Lightning, who were in the second game of a back to back. The flyers were rested. Tampa's obviously missing quite a few, you know, key players as well. They were starting their backup goalie. And they absolutely took apart the flyers. So coming out of that game, even though the flyers play today. So obviously logistically, this wasn't a great time to make a coaching change. That was the kind of game. That's seven to one game. It's just the kind of game that gets a coach fired and it wasn't a major shock when that's exactly what happened this morning. And what's their losing streak at now, Charlie, is it six, seven games?

Eight games. Oh. And they play Colorado tonight. So looking like it could be not. So you mentioned that it started looking like it was a question of when, not if there was going to be a coaching change. And obviously a losing streak like that is probably a big part of it. But what were some of the things that got us to this point?

place where you just knew that something needed to be done. Like what's been going on with the flyers that kind of caused all this to happen? Well, I think it really goes back to last season. That's where this story has to start is that obviously the flyers going into last season were generally speaking viewed as probably a borderline contender, you know, maybe not a top tier contender, but a team that, you know, got to the second round the previous year were one of the best teams in hockey at the, you know, the last two months of 2019, 2020.

So there were expectations last season. And the Flyers obviously flopped. And they were one of the biggest disappointments in the league. Chuck Fletcher, the general manager in Philadelphia, basically last offseason made the decision to shake up the roster. He didn't change the coaching staff. There was only one change. And that was assistant Ian La Perrier,

was essentially moved down to be the HL coach for the Flyers affiliates. So essentially kept the entire coaching staff together. And the message was, we think the problem is the roster. We think that, you know, make changes the roster. or shake things up a bit, adjust the core a little bit, and that'll fix the problem. But there was sort of an undercurrent there where, you know, you don't change the coaching staff. So in a sense, it is a vote of confidence. But there was very much a feeling from the people I talked to that, you know, okay, saying to the

Flyers coaching staff to Elinio, all right, we made the roster changes. We've got you a roster based on, you know, the things that we talked about, you know, going into the offseason the things that you feel like this team needs. If you can't make this team work, the team that you want, you're next on the hot seat. And when this team to start this year, you know, the first 10 games were okay. Standings-wise, they were fine, process-wise. There were definitely some concerning signs, particularly a 5-1-5. But when this whole thing really started to fall apart the last, you know, 10-12 games,

you just got the sense that a coaching adjustment was going to be inevitable because they built this team essentially upon Elaine Vino's request, you know, the changes they made, the types of players they went out and acquired. And if he couldn't make this team work, the question becomes what Flyers team really could he make work? So I think it really goes back to that. I think at this point, the players had lost faith in the coaching staff, particularly Vino. I think that communication was at a real low point from what I've heard between, you know, Vino and the players, Michelle Terry and was the power play coach. The power play has been a mess.

So I just think that, you know, they probably want it to try to make this work. But at some point, if a coach loses the locker in which I think he had, and that's what can happen in an eight game losing streak, then there's a little choice a general manager has, but to relieve him of his duties. So here comes Mike Yo, taking over kind of in an interim capacity. and I'm going to go ahead and call this tremendous foresight on your part because you just happened to sit down with Mike Yo on Friday for a one-on-one conversation about maybe what's been ailing the flyers.

So first of all, tip of the hat to you for being that forward thinking on Friday and looking ahead at this potentially happening. But what was your kind of biggest takeaway from your extended conversation with Yo? Because really, within 72 hours, he now takes over as head coach in Philly. Yeah, I mean, the one takeaway, you know, not even takeaway from the interview, but I've definitely heard that the Flyers players, despite the fact that I think, you know, Terry and Vinio, there was a disconnect. They like Mike Yo. They like Mike Yo. They trust Mike Yo and they believe in Mike Yo as, you know, a good person for this particular team, for this particular coaching set.

So, I mean, that's in my mind a big reason why he's still here and why he's the interim. I don't necessarily think he's going to stay as the interim for an extended period of time. The Flyers are certainly going to be looking outside the organization. But there's a feeling, you know, the fires are in the midst of a brutal stretch right now. They're playing five games this week. So five and seven. Obviously, this night they played the Colorado Avalanche, one of the best teams in the league. Last night they played Dembe Lightning, the defending jet.

So, I mean, you've got like, you've got a tough schedule. So you're probably just going to throw an interim in there like Mike Yo, who already has the trust of the players and see what he can do. And if the team turns it around, you know, maybe he can turn that into a full-time job. But, you know, I don't think this is necessarily, you know, Fletcher saying, this is your job. This is more, you know, you're in the right spot right now to try to stop the bleeding. Let's see what you can do. But yeah, I mean, the thing I'll say about, about Yo and the thing I'll say about the coaching

staff is, you know, based on my conversation with Yo last Friday, like, I think they've identified a lot of the issues. You know, it's not that they don't see what's wrong. You know, they were working on, you know, controlled zone entries and trying to have a numeric advantage hitting the blue line. They were working on offensive zone play in small spaces, essentially cutting, you know, the offensive zone in half to force guys to get closer to high danger areas. These are problems that the flyers absolutely are dealing with and some of the big reasons why they're struggling. It's just a matter of who can get that message through. And clearly, Vino was not getting that message through.

Now, can yo? I mean, they seem to like him a lot more. So maybe. But if he can, I definitely think the Flyers will, you know, I think they're going to be looking outside the organization regardless. But, you know, if an eight game losing streak becomes a 12 game losing streak, I don't think they're going to, you know, stick with Mike Yo for for too long. He might not leave the organization. He just may get bumped back down to an assistant role. But, you know, they're, I don't think this is Mike Yo's job to run with.

But it's more like there's an opportunity for him. if he can leverage, you know, the way the players feel about him into a quick turnaround. And Charlie, so do you think that the Flyers have the personnel on their roster to fix the issues that you're talking about? Like, you think this is getting the message across problem more than a way that the roster has been constructed problem? I think it's probably a little bit of both. I think that, you know, there are players on this team that the Flyers, Flyers probably, you know, maybe overrated, maybe thought higher of than they actually are. That said, I don't think this is a team devoid of talent.

It was actually a real bummer last night to see Carter Hart's numbers get tanked because he did have a poor game, but he's been great this year. So they have the goaltending. It definitely hurt them, you know, in the early part of the year. They didn't have Kevin Hayes. He's back. Now, granted, he's not 100%. And he's had two surgeries to his core area in the last, I believe, seven months.

And he's just kind of coming back from that. And they haven't had Ryan Ellis, who's obviously a key piece on defense, which I think was one of the reasons why, you know, Fletcher kind of hesitated to make this move, you know, maybe a week longer than he should have because he was hoping that you get some injured guys back. Maybe the process fixes itself essentially. But it's, you know, the next month or two, I think are going to be pivotal in terms of understanding just how far away this roster is. Because if a team loses faith in a coach,

it can torpedo a lot of things. And then if they get a coach that they trust and who has the answers, things can turn around pretty quick, especially if you have the goaltending, which the Flyers actually have had this year. That said, if the team continues to struggle, regardless of whether it's Mike Yo at the helm

or whether it's someone else, then you got to ask some really hard questions in the offseason. You know, obviously the big pivot point decision for the Flyers is Claude Drew. His contract's up at the end of this year. He has a no movement clause so he can't be traded without his permission. But if the Flyers are well out of a playoff spot come April, come the trade deadline,

you know, does Claude Drew just straight up say to Chuck Fletcher? I want to chase a Stanley Cup. It doesn't seem like it's going to happen here. You know, I'm running out of time. And if that happens, he's still one of the Flyers best players. So then you're looking at, you know, what is this roster without Claude Drew, without the longtime captain, one of the best players of franchise. franchise history, and that forces an entire re-evaluation of what the flyers are going to be in the

near future. So right now, I think you can look at it as they're making this coaching change to try to salvage the season and to try to deliver a jolt to this team and get back in the playoff mix. If two months down the road, they're 15 points out of a playoff spot and it's clearly over, then I think there has to be a reckoning in terms of just how good this roster actually is. You know, Charlie, a couple of times you've alluded to the fact that, look, Mike Yo, Mike just be a temporary placeholder here. And I'm going to throw out one name that has been repeatedly bandied about on social media, and that's Rick Tocket.

Is Rick Tocket the one name that is top of mind for Flyers fans? And if not, what other names are being thrown around in your market for potential long-term replacement behind the bench? Well, I can tell you the Tocket is absolutely in the mix. You know, with one of the reasons why Flyers fans are, it seems like, excited about the idea of Rick Tocket is because Rick Tocket, you know, he's a Flyers legend. He played for the Flyers for years. Literally three weeks ago, he was just inducted into the Philadelphia Flyers Hall of Fame. So he's been in town. I mean, he's been around. And he's got head coaching experience. He's a popular

guy in Philadelphia. And he's absolutely a candidate. I've been told that from by multiple people. That said, I mean, the Flyers, I think they're going to be looking at everybody. As I said, they're going to be evaluating Mike Yo for however long he has the job. I think Tocke's in the next. but I don't I don't get the sense they're going to spare expense. Like that was something I wondered because the thing with Vino is that he has two and a half years left on his contract that was paying a five mil a year. So I was kind of wondering if, you know, are they willing to spend the money to bring in another big money coach when they're still paying their last big money coach, you know,

five mil, two and a half mill the rest this year, five mil for the next years. I get the sense that that won't be a problem. So that opens the door up to guys like John Tortorella. I mean, he's there. You know, I think there are people in the Flyers organization that think John Torto Rale could be a good fit. I don't think it's universal, but I think that his name's been thrown around. I definitely believe that Bruce Brugio's name was thrown around.

Obviously, Chuck Fletcher hired him once before in Minnesota. That obviously can't happen now that he's with Vancouver, but I think his name, like, his name was there. And the fact that names like Bougar and Twardrella were getting thrown around or are getting thrown around, it should show you like the Flyers, I do believe, you know, aren't opposed to shopping at the top. of the head coaching market. Now, whether they can convince those guys to come here is another story.

And that's where they have a building advantage with the guy like Tocke, who has the organizational connections and obviously cares a lot about the Philadelphia Flyers brand. So he could be an easy sell. And they obviously know him well because of the connections. But yeah, I think they're going to be looking at looking at a lot of you. I mean, I guess Claude Julian's out there. I haven't heard his name connect it.

But he's obviously got a track record. I mean, there's some good coaches out there. there that don't have jobs, and I think the flyers are probably going to look at all of them. All right. Listen, Charlie, we know this is a really busy, one of the busiest days for Beatriders the day when there's, you know, significant changes made, whether it's a coach or a general manager or big trade. So we really appreciate you taking, you know, 15 minutes or so here, walk our listeners through how it all played out in Philly, what to expect here in the weeks and months ahead. I will look forward to your coverage on the print side of things in

the athletic here coming up tomorrow. So thanks for doing this, and I'm sure we'll get you again down the road. Yeah, definitely. Thanks, thanks, seeing. Thanks, thanks, thanks, Haley. All right. We've had such a jam-pack show today, Haley, that we're just going to get right to multiple-choice madness and wrap this up because this is, boy, what a couple of days here in the hockey world in Philadelphia, in Vancouver, so there's been a lot to digest here.

But let's wrap up with multiple-choice madness. And a couple of the coaches of a bit in the news cycle here, Bruce Boudreau, Alan Vino. They're part of this question. Here's my question for you. Who's the best coach who's never won? the Stanley Cup. Is it A, Bruce Budrow, B, Paul Maurice, C, Alan Vino, D, Lindy Ruff, or E, Pat Quinn? And I know that there's probably some other people saying, what about, you know, Roger Nielsen or Jacques

Martin or, you know, insert name here. I'm sure there's lots of other potential candidates. But when you go through the wins list and win percentage, Boudreau, Maurice, Vino, Ruff, and Quinn are pretty much one through five. So that's my question, Haley. Who's the best head coach who's never won the Stanley Cup? You go first. I go first.

Yeah, you always make me go first. Oh, wait. You know what? I'm going to go Pat Quinn. I'm going to go Pat Quinn. And I don't know if it's nostalgia that's kicking in. But, you know, Pat was a guy that to me almost everywhere he went he had success.

Certainly, like in Vancouver, he came a game away from winning the cup in 94. In Philadelphia, he presided over a team that held the longest record. I think they went like 35 games without a loss in way back of the day. And they went to the Stanley Cup final and lost to the Islanders in that dynasty. He was very good in Toronto, just couldn't quite get over the hump. But as I look at it and I think, you know, I don't know. Again, maybe that's just the nostalgia thing kicking in for me.

But boy, Pat Quinn was so good for so long. I feel like, and he won a gold medal for Canada at the Olympic Games. I feel like the one thing that's missing is the Stanley Cup. It's unfortunate because obviously on this list, he's the only guy that A is obviously no longer with us, but B, I think the others have a chance to potentially get his Stanley Cup at some point. So I'll say Pat Quinn for me.

What about you? Yeah, I mean, it's hard to go against what you said. And it's funny, you know, just like reading up on him. And, you know, you would have to fact check this. But just one of the things that it, online talking about his legacy. Like he was one of the first coaches or like the first coach to do like the upper body, lower body injury.

Yeah. So he's had this like long lasting legacy that's I guess a pain for fans and media members alike. So his hands are still all over that upper body undisclosed upper body injury. So yeah, you know what? I think I agree with you with Pat Quinn. But I would say like Bruce. Boudreau is, is just so we don't say the same person, but I think Bruce Boudro is up there.

I mean, if you look at his body of work, he is one of the most successful regular season coaches in NHL history. You know, Duran's had this in his story. Among the NHL coaches that have coached at least 900 games in the NHL, he is second in career point percentage behind Scottie Bowman. So, like, his body of work in the regular season is incredibly impressive. It's one of the best in NHL history, as I said, doesn't have a Stanley Cup. Is that because his teams haven't been cup contenders? Can he not coach in the Stanley Cup?

We've seen him get close, but he doesn't have that big elusive prize that everyone's looking for. So I agree with Pat Quinn, but just to be different, I'll say Bruce Boudreau. Yeah, I'm not sure you can go wrong with any of them. They're all great with all great resumes. Okay, next question. We've kind of hit the quarter mark of the season, 20 games for most teams of the NHL. Who deserves the heart trophy right now, Haley?

As League MVP. I'm going to give you four options. Johnny Gujarro. Well, you can go off the board here because I'm just kidding. I'll give you. No, I'm not feeding the homer today. Yeah. I'll give you the options.

Connor McDavid, Leon Drysidal, Alexander Ovechkin, or somebody else. And you know what? Gujro has been dynamite. there's probably room for some others to get into the conversation. But if I gave you your heart trophy ballot right now, is it McDavid, Drysidal Ovechkin or somebody else? I think the way that Ovechkin's playing right now with his age, his goal scoring capabilities,

the fact that he's able to do it at five on five and not just the power play is a major thing for me. We're starting to see some of the early season trends with the Oilers catch up to them, their five-on-five play has not been great. And a lot of the team success and individual success has come on the power play. And that's not to say that Connor McDavid and Leon Drysidal aren't game-breaking talents, but their five-on-five production as a team and those individuals hasn't been there. I think the last time I checked and I don't have it right in front of me,

But when I was again doing my Manjupani story, Andrew was leading the league in five-on-five goals with like 10. It was him and Ovechkin tied for five-on-five goals in the league. And Drysidal had like six, five-on-five goals, yet he had 20 goals on the season already. Like that is an incredible rate. Like he's a beast on the power play. But it can't all be special teams. And that's one of the things that the Oilers have been struggling with is their five-on-five play.

And they're seven and six. in their last stretch of games after going nine and one to start the season. So we're seeing that stuff catch up to them, whereas the capitals just keep rolling. And Ovi keeps rolling in all situations. And he's an incredibly important piece of what's happening in Washington right now. So I'm going to say Alex Ovechkin. You know, what I try to look this up,

and I think Ovechkin would set the record for this. If he wins the heart trophy this season, the last time Alexander Ovechkin won the hard trophy, Haley was 2009. Right. So that would be a 13 year gap between heart trophies, between MVP awards. And as I tried to look it up, like, you know, obviously Gretzky won, one, you know, his first and his last heart trophy were whatever, 10 years apart, but he won like eight, right,

in between. So in terms of a drought, I think this would be the longest one ever. Like, I don't even think there's anything even closest. I tried to look it up. I couldn't find anything of anybody who even had a six-year gap, five-year gap between heart trophies. So this is going to be remarkable if it happens. He would get my vote for sure.

And it's for very much the same things that you outlined in your answer. But there's a curiosity factor here now that I start to think about if we went through all of the big four sports and we looked at gaps between MVP years. Would we ever find a greater than a decade gap between MVP awards in baseball, in the NBA, or in the NFL? I don't think so. Or if you did, you could probably count it on one hand. This is crazy stuff we're seeing from Ovecgen, like unbelievable stuff.

So I kind of, I think selfishly, I kind of want to vote for him and then hope that this continues just because I think the story is so great, you know? Yeah. Like this isn't just some renaissance. season. Like, it's one of the best starts his career period at 36 years old. Yeah. It's really impressive the way that he's found that gear right now. And we'll see if it's sustainable through the season. But he's definitely at the top of my ballot. Final question. Now, in multiple choice madness, on Monday, the Boston Bruins had a special

goaltender on the ice with them, Haley. And that was Tuka Rask because Linus Allmark is kind of out right now. And they've got some issues there. They need someone to kind of serve as a backup golly. So Tuka Rask, who is technically a free agent, served as their, we'll call them the eBug, right? The emergency backup goalie in practice. And listen, bringing them in for practice, I got no problem with that.

I don't think anybody does. Here's the question, though. The Bruins don't play again until Wednesday in Vancouver. So I doubt that this comes to fruition. I don't see a scenario in which they travel to... You know, they travel to Vancouver with Tuka Rask is the e-bug. But here's my question. Should the Boston Bruins be allowed to use Tuka Rask as an emergency backup goalie in a game situation?

Your options are, yeah, it's totally fair. He's an unsigned goalie, so there's no issue there. Or B, nah, you know what? This feels shady and it screams of capser convention. where would you fall on the Bruins using Tuka Rask as as an e bug in a game situation, not practice in a game? Yeah. I don't know if I'm like on the like,

this is shady cap circumvention. Like you guys are terrible end of it, but I'm also not like okay with it. I know it's within the rules and it's technically okay. I probably fall towards the closer to the right side of that, guess. Because when you think of an e-bug, it's the Zamboni driver, practice goalie. It's the height, it's the university college kid down the street who gets the call, who just gets to sit there. And it's like, this is a dream come true. I can't believe, you know, my parents are in the

building. They're seeing me wear Toronto Maple Leafs Jersey on the bench. This is, you know, I just came from class at University of Toronto. Like, that's the e-bug kind of vibe that we're used to and just having it be like Tuka. Right. It's like, wait, no. No. How many games have you played for the Boston Bruin specifically in your career? You're not some emergency backup.

You are the former Stanley Cup winning starting goaltender in Boston. So there's something about that that's like, no. You guys could be a little bit more creative than getting Tuka to be your eBug. Let's just be honest. Go to Boston College. go to BU. Yeah. You know what?

I think I agree with you. Like, again, I'm okay. Like, in practice, if they're down a goalie and they need someone to come in for drills, like, that's totally cool. And like, it's the open secret. He's probably going to sign in Boston once he's, like, back to game ready. But that's what makes it even weirder. Yeah.

But what if you got into ebug territory and you're dressed, or not dressed, but like you're ready in a game situation and all of a sudden maybe your goalie is hurt or something. Yeah. You could probably maybe talk me into that for one game, maybe, but even then, I don't know, seems a little shady to me. But I think it's fun that that's a, that's a, that's a interesting conversation to have. Like it technically, it's not against the rules. Technically he's an unsigned goalie.

So, you know, you can pretty much probably go down that path. So listen, we'll leave it there. This was a jam-pack Monday show. So you mentioned you got to, has your column come out here yet? You mentioned a column dropping for you? It did. Yeah. Okay.

I will make sure I jump in there and read all about the high flying Calgary Flames because they have been one of the best stories of this young season. Yeah. It's crazy after a loss. It's like, do we have to have like the referendum on if this team is good or do we just believe that they're good yet? It's like how many games is enough games to say like, no, they are what they are. They're a good hockey team.

Last night they lost to the Vegas Golden Knights three to two. And what a lot of people saw is this big measuring stick game because the Golden Knights had gone to the Cup final. They'd gone to the conference final. They made it to, in the weird bubble season last year, the semi-finals against Montreal. They've done kind of everything but win the Stanley Cup. And so they've kind of been the guy in the West to get past. And so in this big measuring stick, the flames lose. So it's like, okay, well now what?

do we just believe that they're not a good team anymore because they came one goal short of beating the best team on paper in the Western Conference in their third game in four nights? Like, I don't think we're there yet. Yeah. But it's been an interesting thing because this is very much a team that fans are only going to believe once they see them do it in the playoffs. So it's like, well, you know what? How do you cover losses when they shouldn't be a big deal?

That's a good sign. At what point our loss is a big deal? At what point do you say, like, wait a second, now we have a problem. I don't think we've hit that in Calgary, which is a good problem to have. Yeah, I think it's been one of the best stories of the year. I really do. I think it's been one of the most pleasant surprises. And all of a sudden, you can look at them and think they could potentially be a Stanley Cup contender if this continues.

You can see it. So I think it's, they're fascinating. So we'll make sure we check out your column. Listen, enjoy the week. And we'll do this again next Monday. Oh, same time, same place. There you go. All right.

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