The Athletic Hockey Show - Pierre Lebrun on Evgenii Dadonov trade from Vegas to Anaheim under review, Marc-Andre Fleury shores up Minnesota Wild goaltending and buyer and seller winners on trade deadline day

Episode Date: March 22, 2022

Craig Custance and Sean Gentille welcome Pierre Lebrun, the day after the completion of NHL trade deadline 2022. The boys discuss the trade that is under investigation involving Vegas and Anaheim for Evgenii Dadanov, Marc-Andre Fleury shoring up the Minnesota Wild's goaltending and the sneaky good moves made by the New York Rangers and Colorado Avalanche.Plus the guys discuss why Calgary could not re-acquire Mark Giordano, the Oilers and Maple Leafs failure to land goaltending help, Montreal's rebuilding return, the Brandon Hagel steal in Tampa Bay, the battle between the GM Kyle's and buyers and seller winners at the deadline including Florida, Calgary, Colorado and Tampa Bay, Anaheim and Montreal. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hey, everybody. Welcome to the Tuesday American edition of the Athletic Hockey Show, where we only feature American guests talking about nobody from Canada ever talking about American hockey. Hey! Whose voice is that? Wait a second. Hold on. Let me just go find all my gold medals from the best on best hockey from the last 40 years. Hold on.

Wait a second. Wait a second. Hold on a second. Oh, look, I got a picture of Marty Breder from Salt Lake City right behind me in my office. Look at that. I'll take your word for it. We can't see it. Somebody has hacked the line.

Who is this? Ladies and gentlemen, the star of yesterday's trade deadline. Now on our podcast, Pierre LeBron, joined Sean Gentilly and I on our special, well, I don't know how special it is. We were doing this anyways. It's Tuesday. But it's special because Pierre is here. And we're going to talk trade deadline. How are you, Pierre?

I'm honored that you guys thought of inviting me on after the first 10 people canceled. I mean, it's, you know, you finally came north of the border. 11th choice, best choice. I thought it was crazy. I think the craziest part of the TSN Deadline show was when they had an isolated camera on you for like 45 minutes. That was wild. Did they really?

The Pierre one shot feed that they had on ESPN Plus. I was not expecting that. God, that's not true because he'd see me drop a lot of that bombs when I didn't realize it was on there. Oh, he's looking at his phone. Oh, no. Exactly. Although I will say

Kevin Weeks raised the game in terms of backdrops and breaking news from all over the place Pierre, I think you should you should convince TSN just to let you fly around the world next year and do it from like here I am in the Bahamas

breaking a trade. There's no way I'm going to do video trade tweets. I mean, half the time... Come on. Sometimes I'm not wearing pants. I mean, come on. I mean, you can't... Whatever.

No, you just, you just, you just incorporated into the budget and fly around. So it's like, Johan Larson for a fourth. This is Pierre LeBron live from in front of Parthenon in Greece. It's a parkin. Oh, man. Weeksie was a big star of this trade deadline period.

He brought it up a notch. That was fun. Oh, my gosh. Well, Pierre, like, great work as always. Let me start there. I know how stressful it is. I know you have to,

like, I'm glad you're even like talking right now because I know the buildup can be hard. and it's so competitive. And as always, you were at the top of the list. But I want to start here. Normally, we're all done with trades at this point. We can recap and everything's gone through.

But there's a trade sitting there. Maybe this will get resolved in the next couple hours. I don't know. But Daddanov, to the Ducks, is under review. I don't... Have we seen this before? What's going on? It is very interesting.

First of all, the trade itself was... fascinating. We had, we were tracking it throughout the day and I was kind of careful when I brought it up on air. I didn't tweet about it even though we knew it was, even though it was in discussion because we were so, uh, confused by whether or not it was going to go down. And so, um, you know, and it was the last trade announced, basically, of all the trades that were in the central registry queue, it finally came out late, late yesterday. And, um, and now that. seems to be just falling up up a lot of the reporting from my colleague there in

Drigger. Some concern about whether or not that Onoff was asked to waive his no trade to go to Anheim and whether

Vegas was aware of the parameters of his no trade and whether or not the Ottawa senators properly disclosed as no trade

when they sent him to Vegas last summer so there's all kinds of layers of the NHLPA is involved it must be really stressful for all

Kessler especially. I mean, he must really be stressed right now. Well, Ryan doesn't know where he's going to play tomorrow. I hope he's okay. He doesn't know where he's going to play. We should get noted American, Ryan Kessler. We should get him on just to talk about what it's like to be in the middle of this country. I didn't know his contract. I'd be honest. I didn't know his contract. I'd be honest. I mean, me neither. If we're being completely honest here. And by the way, he should actually be thrilled. I mean, it's the last six weeks of his NHT contract. Of course, Ryan isn't playing anymore. Injuries, unfortunately, Alton is, is terrific. career. But for six weeks, I don't know how many paychecks are left in the HL season. He usually got paid, I think, twice a month, right? As an HL. player, and then it ends at the end of the regular season. So there's probably two paychecks left. But he'll go from the California tax to Nevada. He has to trade also jackpacks.

Oh, man. I didn't think of that. Nobody's rooting for it harder than Ryan for this to go through. That's what you're saying. Yeah, Ryan, my Ryan Kessler, I'm sure, wants this trade to remain for his last two clean paychecks. I mean, you laugh about that, but it's hilarious. We've got to figure that out. We have to figure out how much money Ryan Kessler's going to make in the next month. Like, can you buy a, can you buy a bow with it or something? I don't know.

Like, is it Brent Seabrook's contracts in Tampa now, right? Mm-hmm. The Hawks traded it to Tampa last offseason. Tampa's using it for LTIR. Yeah, LTIR, I'm just looking at it right now, on cat friendly. And I remember, and he had to wait for that. I remember talking to his agent, Jerry Johansson, and he said, they technically had to wait because they had a full move

even though he's not playing hockey anymore. And I was like, oh, I guess you don't care. Well, here's the thing. The better tax situation in Florida, there is in Chicago. So that is good when your contract gets moved. Better tax situation in Florida than there is anywhere. Yeah. That's as good as it gets for those guys.

So it's kind of funny when these things happen. But yeah, we'll see where this goes with the NHLPA and Adonoff and, you know. It seems like there's a lot of blame to be apportioned here, right? You got the Sends involved, you got Vegas involved. I mean, we'll see what happens on the player into things. But it takes a lot of people screwing up to turn a situation into this big of a mess. Yeah, I mean, the only, I guess the only sort of saving grace is aside from the Donop,

who obviously would have finished the year and out. playing. I mean, originally I was wondering if Raquel was involved in this. But it turns out those were separate transactions. I'm just saying it's a good thing that wasn't a high, high, you know, a high rental involved in a trade that could be undone. You can you imagine? Oh my God. So yeah. Imagine imagine. Imagine if that if it were if it were, yeah, if they somehow turned that into a three way with the penguins and, you know, that, whatever that. Yeah, it could have been worse. That's amazing. You know, as we sit here on Tuesday and don't know if it's going to go through or not. But Vegas kind of needs this trade, right? Like, I haven't done the math,

but they, like, the stakes are kind of high if you're Vegas. Right. With all their guys on all TIR, and it just gives them more flexibility. I mean, it's a pretty sharp deal. I mean, again, this is the, the mechanisms and how works and all that. I mean, Tampa and Toronto or front offices that have really, you know, explored the nuances of the system the last few years. But this, this was a smart deal by Vegas. It had been old. for what they can do with stone an LTI and so on. But, um,

yeah, we'll see what, what the league ultimately rules on it. It's, uh, be something else that they undid it. It was definitely a nice excuse to like, get a refresher on when,

when players typically have to file, file their no movement clauses and how that works and what the carryover is year after year. Like, for sure. Definitely got the bone up on the CBA last night because it was, I was a little, little stale on it.

So that's good. And any excuse. And I was disappointed. We only had one broker deal during the deadline period. Last year, we had three, but only one yesterday. Florida picked up an asset for being a broker team between Carolina. Yeah, not usually the cup contender that's saying, hey, you know, you can run it through us if you like. Can you imagine if Max Domey ends up scoring a relevant goal for the Carolina hurricanes against the Panthers?

Like, oh, man. Yeah, it was interesting. I mean, for Florida, they traded away so many picks that they were just trying to recoup. used her caps base. So it's pretty smart of GM Bill Zito in that front office, but it is a bit unusual. I was surprised when it was that.

I was expecting Seattle or, I couldn't have been, I guess it couldn't have been Arizona, could it? Well, I guess it could have because they didn't trade Castle. They were keeping one more. Yeah, I guess it could have been Arizona. I mean, whatever.

It's a decent gamble to make. Max Domey's got one goal in his last 31 games or something. Like, I'm fine. I'm fine. I'm fine saying he's not going to score a big goal if it means, you know, netting a draft pick for it. You know what, though?

I don't mind to pick up for Carolina because, you know, they had to do something. Yeah, their offense starts to stagnate lately. And, and you know what? It's, you got to motivate a player who,

you know, was looking for a change of scenery and he's got to, you know, he's playing for a contract. Nothing better than that. When you got to motivate a player. So, um,

they played, they played Pittsburgh recently and I, I watched him a lot. And he's, he looked motivated. I'll say that. He was playing, He was playing hard. He was skating hard. He was doing a lot of good stuff.

It obviously didn't turn into anything in that game. But yeah, I don't know. That's a sneaky, half decent move for them. They definitely had they had to do something, especially after what Florida did and what Tampa did and whatever. He didn't want to be left completely holding the bag, especially with the way things have gone for them over the last, you know, 10 or 15 games. And it wouldn't have been easy to do that deal either because generally speaking, I think the hurricanes owner, Tom Dunden is anti-rental. doesn't like paying parental players

but the pain was so minimal here but makes total sense so one of my favorite things Pierre is I don't know if you filed it yet but you you'll either you know you'll take us behind some of the moves but you also kind of get us down the path of some of the moves that didn't happen anything

anything that came close that you're like oh that would have been an interesting one they got yeah so I did I just posted it earlier this morning a few nuggets in there like a post-edline rumblings And one of the items in it, I don't know, I'm kind of nerdy about this stuff. But after the Calgary Flames weren't able to get either Venturaud or Hampton's lent home to two defensemen that they tried pretty hard to get. I was curious whether they would turn their attention to Mark Viradano and bring back their old captain. And this was on Sunday morning.

And what I realized from making a few calls is that the Flames got this confirmed from the league and I got this confirmed from the league. So I wrote about it. the flames are not allowed they're allowed to bring back Mark Giordano but had to have them at full AVE value on their books they could not have Seattle retain and they could not do a broker deal as per as per a very strange

seldom used a CBA rule in the 2012 CBA that says that if you if a player that you had on your team is reacquired within within the same calendar year

he has to be on the full A.V. He cannot have his A.B. Partially retained by the other team. I did not know about this rule. I talked to a couple of front offices about it. And one guy was a really smart CBA guy. I didn't know about it either. And we went through it together.

And I had to confirm with the lead. But, wow. Yeah. So essentially this rule by itself, not Calgary out of the bidding on Mark Giridano. I've seen people spitball with that, like on trades? It's like on teams reacquiring players who they'd already traded. I had no idea to actually applied to expansion drafts, which seems... Right.

Well, and this is the thing... Which seems unfair. Yeah. So this is the thing is that the league pretty much had to, I think, have to make a ruling in the moment because it was unique because the expansion draft to write. So page 273 of the CBA, if you want to go click on it today. Point four... Yeah, I know.

I'm not going to read it, but essentially it does read the illustration. in the rule, re-talks about trading the SPC of a player. And if he comes back within the calendar year, can't have any of his salary retained. It talks about a trade. It doesn't talk about expansion draft. But essentially,

the league made a call that the essence of the rule is reacquiring a player within 12 months. And so, interestingly enough, and I don't know how far it advanced the flames knew this, because there was talk all year of them being in on the uranano. But this was obviously explained to the flames at some point. And which means that really almost impossible to make that trick given their cap situation.

I think it's fascinating that they were still in on Giorado as late as it sounds like they were in the first place, right? Because, you know, Tafoli is a huge ad and they had to finagle to get yarn croak under the cab. I mean, there was obviously a lot of early action from Choliving. And their cap situation was crazy, A, and their defense group is pretty solid. B, like, They could have used a decent seventh on paper, but the fact that they're far enough down the road for that stuff to come up with Gerdino and then they're in on Lindholm, I thought all that,

the fact that they were looking as hard as they were for one of the big fish like that was interesting. They were in pretty hard on Hamptus Linholm. I think, I mean, it's always hard to have this completely confirmed, but I think they were the runners up on Hampton Hill. And I don't know that I would call them runners up on Ventrault. I think Boston was a runner's up on the Chirot.

But it is an absolute fact that the flames tried to get Chirot in the Tafoli deal last month. And so, which would have required a prospect of the flame did not want to give up onto Montreal. But so, you know, I wrote about this today. I don't want to, I think Brad Trey living had a tremendous trade deadline period. I mean, Yarn Croc is a great fit and Tafoli's been good. But they clearly thought they needed one more piece. on defense and weren't able to do it. So we'll see if it comes back to bite them.

Right now, that group of six has been terrific all year. But when you plan to play four rounds and the flames are certainly put together, like they have a chance to go deep, usually your blue line takes a hit. It's a grind. So we'll see. They're one injury away from Michael Stone being a top four defenseman, right? Because you don't want to mess with Zadora of and get Branson on that third pair. So in Stone's the seventh.

I'm not sure that's a perfect situation for a Western contender like them. Yeah, you know, Stone is the seventh on sort of the active roster. I mean, I guess I guess the question is, is it actually, you know, Dali Mackey that comes up from the HL if they truly need a role in the playoffs? What does he jumpstone? Right? Because right now they want them playing. So, I don't know.

But still, I think that another piece would have been. And I think they had interest in Brett Kulak yesterday. but my goodness, that was a premium paid for Brett Kulak and no offense to Brett Kulak, who I know that was beloved in that half dressing room, but Kent Euse and Jeff Gordon played their car. Boy, during this trade deadline period, they got some massive return for a lot of their guys. The returns on defense and were just all over the place, I felt like. You look at, you look at what Kulak got.

And then Justin Braun, who's completely fine, gets just a third. and there's guys getting sixes and whatever. Like the D market just seemed like it was, you know, in chaos. Yeah. Was there a reason for that? Was that because of Sherat just blowing it up earlier? I think the Sherat deal definitely, you know, raised the stakes. And, you know, Jeremy Lozone for a second was surprising to me, too, on Sunday night.

And, you know, and it's interesting within that scope. And I guess it just goes to show you that, you know, when a player has a bit of control over where he goes, it does affect the outcome. So the fact that Mark Girodano, now it's hard to analyze that deal because Colin Blackwell's in it, and he's not a forgotten piece. You know, he's a good little player.

But, you know, Seattle had been asking for a first for Gerardano all along to try and match the Sharad deal, but they just couldn't get it out of Toronto. And so, you know, that's interesting. But again, that package is a bit different because he's not the only piece in it. Way too much Canadian. Well, they were, they were out.

What can I say there? The Canadian teams were in the middle of the way. No, they really were. And I love, who was it with the state? Oh, having an agent now as a GM, he finally cares about the salary camp. The Kent Hughes comment was so amazing because it's like, I'd love to see that. I thought Colorado had a good deadline period, by the way. I think PPS had too.

We've talked a lot about them because they didn't need to do anything. We wanted Claude Drew to go there, but we also were like, hey, they're really good. Like, so they can actually just kind of perfect some of the edges. And I thought they did that. Yeah. And there's no question. I think Joe Sackack, did he not even actually talk about Cold Jeru publicly yesterday? I mean, they wanted him.

But once it became obvious that they would, they could really only get him if the Florida deal fell apart, they had to sort of rejig. I mean, they wanted to rejig that third line, right? And they did it. And they did it on the fly. Like, yeah, first off, you had, you swap out Jost for Stern, which gives you a different kind of player in that bottom six. and I love the Lekanin deal. Cogliano. I mean, like, they added the pieces that they were looking at

because they were open about trying to, you know, kind of reformat their bottom six for the last month or so. Well, and Manson on the back end, like, I think, you know, a team never once. That feels like it happened a month ago. Yeah, I know. This year's straight, I know. It's like to fully get traded to Calgary like Christmas, I don't know. But, you know, the Manson thing is, you know,

Teams don't like even talking about this off the record after they lose in the playoffs because they're sore and it kind of pokes at your pride. But I think deep down, the Oves felt that their blue line got man-handled a bit last year by Vegas. You know, and again, last year was the playoffs of the big boys on the fence, you know, led by Montreal and Tampa. And I think Colorado took a real hard look at that after the playoffs and said at some point we have to address it. Now, just having Eric Johnson back by himself, being healthy memory, he didn't play last year. So he's a big boy. And then you add Manson, if he can stay healthy, and that's part of the equation, is he's just, he can be nasty and really physical.

And he's a game changer. So you add that with all the skill they already have. And it gives them, I think, a more balanced look for the playoffs. When, again, you can hate on it all they want because it is ridiculous. It's the only sport that where this happens. But there is a different rulebook in the playoffs. And they're not going to call as much, and it's going to be more about the grind. And so I think Colorado is in a better place for that.

Lekkonen's another grinder who I think has the potential of being sort of a hybrid, Ujul-Kulman-type guy for Colorado in terms of this complete game. I think he's an excellent pick-up. Yeah, there's always this disconnect between what, like, fans want to see and then what GMs want to acquire. Because, like, they, everybody knows the game's different in the playoffs. So you do need those players and, you know, Sherrod or Linholm and some of these guys that can play that play that playoff style game. go for more than what people might want.

And you know what I mean? Like that's just the reality of it. These are deals for the spring, like for the playoff runs. These aren't deals to win regular season games. Part of that's why I like Manson so much for Colorado, right? Like he's a pretty, as far as those guys are concerned, that type of player is concerned, he brings a little bit more of the table. Like if you're more analytically inclined or whatever and you look at those numbers,

you look at where he was a couple years ago, that was a really, really complete player. Like aside from being big and playoff ready, and physical. I mean, he drove, he drove play as well. So, I mean,

and he hasn't quite, I mean, whatever, it's Anaheim. They've stunk for the last couple years. So he hasn't quite been at that level. But, man,

with the way the abs do things, it's easy to imagine him sliding in and turning into Josh Manson from, you know, 2019. If that's the case, man, man,

man, did it get a lot better. Yeah, I totally agree. And listen, I always say, let's look at recent success and go from there. Tampa is the team.

And Tampa is the team. And Tampa, is incredibly modern in their approach and the data they examine and all the things they do. But what they did to turn a corner as well is they realized years back that they needed to get nastier for their playoff roster. So they mixed into some old school values

with their modern approach. That's the reality. That's what Julie Breisbo did with that team. And so, you know, I know that people feel Florida had an overpay on Ben Chirot. I mean, he's not had a good season at all. They didn't base it on how we played this year. They based it on just look at five clips from Toronto, Montreal,

and the opening round and asked the Leafs star players all they felt about Ben Chirot in the corner. Yeah. It's, you know? And now we can eliminate the Leafs again. It'll be great. Maybe. Maybe. Yeah.

All right. I want us each to pick who we thought had the best deadline. I've got my thought. But we do need to take a quick break, Pierre. And then we'll be right back. All right, segment two. I like that we can just bring a guest along for segments one and two so Sean and I can do even less.

Less work. Yeah, Jesus Christ. Yeah, Jesus Christ. But, you know, I mean, winners and losers are such a staple of trade deadline. And we acknowledge it's ridiculous in, you know, we're talking about draft picks. Now it's like even more than ever, like years off. We don't know who won and lost. So if we can, if we each pick who we like what they did the best,

I'm going to talk about approach in mind. And you mentioned Tampa and what Julian Brisebois did. I just love his approach. I love Julian Brisebois who says, hey, I'm not trying to do something for right now. I'm using this moment in time where people can make deals. I'm going to value, as part of the evaluation process, I'm going to factor in cap space, in value, and where a player is on their arc. And I'm going to make a trade that looks like an overpay, but takes all these things into consideration and may end up looking like the best deal of this trade deadline. So my winner for what they did in this, that deal with Chicago is Tampa Bay.

It's right out of Julian's playbook. I've talked to him about this, about this approach, about how they, you know, factor, like, they value cap space. For sure. For sure. And that's part of the equation. And so draft picks have value, players have value. cap space has value and when you can get a player

I want to see what is cap it is do you guys know off it? 1.55. 1.5. Yeah. For 2 and a half years and then 2 more years of control on top of that is not. 2 more years of control. And guess what's going to happen?

He's going to be great for them. And whatever third and fourth line is created, whatever happens there, he's going to be great. And then at some point he's going to get paid what he deserves and he's going to be a market price player and it's going to be somewhere else. It's not going to be in Tampa.

Brandon, Brandon Hagel at 1.5 has value for anybody. He somehow is more for Tampa because of the way that team's constructed. Because when you have all these great players and you've done such a great job if you're Breeze bought to get them at a reasonable number where you can add anything, first off, finding ways to build out that third line for a million and a half dollars for two, for two more years, it is wild. He had somehow had more value to them than anybody else.

Overpay for them. Who cares? It's not an overpay. It's not. I'm using air quotes on that, Craig. It's not an actual. It's not an actual overpayment. That's what they needed to do.

So just to be a bit of a contrarian, I mean, it literally, I should actually be fired for even second guessing the time of the lighting because literally everything they do. No, you're allowed. Everything they do is terrible. Everything they do has been gold. But I will tell you that from talking to other front offices about this deal.

Okay. Is that there are some people, who, again, love the creativity, love what Tampa does, but think that Tampa's forcing it a bit of here, wanting Brandon Hagel to be the Coleman-Goujo-type guy on a third line when he's actually a guy who prefers score goals. That there's maybe not the grind in.

He said he doesn't have that. Yeah. And now, is that sour great from other front offices who always fall behind Tampa? But I do want to bring that up that, you know, they went back to the well here. They recreated the deal. let's see if it adds the same success. So is Brandon Hagle like, yeah, I can shoot 22% for the rest of my life?

Sure. Right. That's sustainable. I'm a 40-gold guy. Yeah, you better know what you're getting in the player. Like, he better be the kind of player you think he is. I'm making the assumption. I think they've earned the, you know, the right here that they know they're not getting a guy that's going to be like, hey, I'm a top line guy, you know, or whatever here. But, I mean, I think that's fair.

Like, the concept works and you've pulled it up. off before, it doesn't mean every time you do this, it's not going to pan out. But you're talking about draft picks that are going to be at the bottom of the, you know, wherever they are, they're going to be. And also, like, it's not, it's not crushing if it doesn't pan out in terms of cap space and all that. I just, I love it. I like the approach. And, you know, that's not, that's not to say Julian won't do something that's very traditional. I mean, he did a rental last year and, and, you know, they won the cup so nobody cared, even though the David Savardield maybe wouldn't have looked as good if they hadn't won the cup. No, he really didn't fit in that well there, but who cares when

you win. You won the cup, so it worked out, like, it's, this isn't just like Julian does everything like outside the book or whatever, but I don't know. I just, I love that. I actually think Nick Paul is going to have a smoother transition to what they want from him in the bottom of that lineup, but, but he's a rental, so it's not as sexy. No, and it's not as fun to dissect, but you're right. Like he might be the more impact player in the short term. So that's my winner. And do you have somebody that you really appreciate what they did, Pierre? Yeah, I mean, I think the two teams as buyer.

I got buyers and sellers. I like the grade. As buyers, I really like with Florida. And we talked about Colorado, so we don't have to go back to Colorado. But Florida and Colorado are my two winners. I think the Panthers, I understand why people are still getting over the sticker shock on Gerard. but I just think between Chirot and Drew and also the psychology of what they're trying to do in their own state

and understanding where the road goes through eventually. I think this is a great moment in the history of that franchise where they're just like we're doing this and we believe in this group and I think Bill Zito's done pretty amazing work there since he's been there and I just I think those ads talk about the fact that well, you know, if Tampa's spending first round picks every year and winning cups, at some point we got to decide if we're real. Not to interrupt on that either, but we had Bill Lindsay on the post on the post deadline shows.

Does, does, uh, does analysts work for them? And he said specifically that this year, like, there's some kind of buzz down there. And you got a grade on a curve because you never know with South Florida sports in general. But he said, you said people are psyched about them. And I believe it because this is the sort of stuff that gets people that gets people excited. The fact that they're setting the tone, not just on the ice, but they set the tone at the deadline is really, really impressive. And yeah, whatever, they overpaid for Chirot, but they underpaid for Drew because Drew wanted to go, because Drew wanted to go play for that team. Like that means, that means something.

Yeah. Yeah. The best player on the market is saying that's where I want to go. Like, that counts for something. Yeah, not to mention when Colorado was an option. And then my winners on the sellers is hardly original. I think everyone was in agreement, but I think Anaheim and Montreal got a ton of value in their sell-offs, yeah.

Like really, you know, new GMs for both teams, right? And they both, I mean, a pile of assets for both organizations. I mean. The ducks hit the skids at the right time, too. Like, they haven't been good for a few weeks. So it got a lot easier for a big. Just be like, all right, goodbye, goodbye, goodbye. Well, I don't know if you remember, Sean.

I did all these GM interviews for about a six-week period. And, you know. The Verbeek one was fun. Yeah, because he caught me off guard because, you know, we were at least a month from the deadline, I think, when I call them, or three weeks maybe. And he basically set on the record, I'm trading Linholm, Raquel, and Manson if I don't sign them. And they were one point out of a playoffs spot. And I was like, wow. And I don't know how well received it was in this dressing room.

But that set the tone. And he were, it was pretty obvious then that the big picture was going to trump whatever fake. race they were in. Three first rounders and five second rounders if the done off thing goes through. That's pretty good. That's pretty good for Patrabee. And I don't know. I think that deal is going to be over turning, but we'll see. We'll see. Oh man. So like I think that's why you almost need to have a new GM come in to replace somebody that was successful because I think the tear down can be painful. And this is,

Pat for me could come in and be really clinical here. He doesn't have any attachment here. Whereas if you're Bob Murray, like these are the, you know, in some cases, guys you won with or whatever, right? Like, you've seen it time and time again where people try, they just can't do the, they can't tear the band-aid off when it's, and it's, like, it's psychology. Like, I wouldn't be able to either. Like, you went to war with these players or whatever. It's such a paradigm shift to go from being like, all those years building around Gatslap and in Corey Perry when he was there. I mean, like, that's such a, that's such a mind, a mindset change.

It's got to be tough for, for anybody. Yeah, Verbeek can just come in and be like, hey, we're doing this. And I have no ties to these guys. And actually, the opposite has kind of happened in Montreal, where when Jeff Gordon and Kent Hughes were hired in the middle of that gong show of a season that the house were having with all their injuries and coming back down Earth, um, that under Marty St. Louis, he'd been playing really good hockey.

And actually, I'll tell you that I wrote about this in my romlings today, but when Kent Hughes went down. to inform Martin St. Louis that he had traded Leckin and Marty St. Louis was crushed. Like, he did not receive the news well. He understood the business side of it, but he in six weeks has really gotten close to his players and feels like they're revealing on something for next year. And so it's interesting because I feel like the Ducks moves were a lot more surgical that way. And whereas the Havs, who were terrible most of the year and are headed nowhere in the standings, actually had to second guess a move. move like Lekinen because of what where the field he can pivot next year. It's quite fascinating to me.

Was what was the thought process, if you know, behind them moving Lekinen? Because like door number two for that is you're like, okay, he makes two and three quarters or whatever. There's one more year of RFA. But it's just like he was going to price himself out and they weren't willing to, you know, commit at the point in his contract structure that he's at? Yeah. So it's a couple of things, John. I mean, number one,

such a priority for them is to rebuild the pipeline. They don't feel they have enough coming, and they got a 2020 first round pick in that deal in top of a second. But you're exactly right. His deal was up at the end of the year, and he's having a career year, weirdly playing third light minutes,

but he's just both his traditional numbers. I don't know he's just a really good player, and he was going to score financially. And unfortunately, I don't want to cast, you know, shade on another player, but it's a fellow fin that basically, I think, help the exit as Yol Armiya's contract as an anchor. Three more years of $3.4 million. And we couldn't move that contract.

They'll try again in the summer, I think. But because of that contract, they basically couldn't keep lucking in anything. All right. Shawnee, who did you like? You stole mine. I was going to say Tampa. I was going to say Florida. That's why I went right away.

Like, I don't know. It's cowardly. That's a close. Calgary. Um, I love, I'm whatever. I know we're not a lot to talk about the flames and we just did for a while anyways. I just, I love, I love what they've done over the last, you know, not just, not just, not just, not just tree living. Like the way it's, the way it's worked, the proof of concept that we have for Calgary over the last month.

I mean, To Foley does so much for them. And Yarncroke from the jump just seemed, he seemed perfect because they needed another right shot. they needed someone who is center capable at least. And if he's not, if he's not the guy you want centering that third line, if he'd rather go with Dylan Dubay or whoever else, it's fine. You port, you pour Kelly Yarn Krook over because he can play both sides.

I mean, he's such a versatile, cheap player that he made almost two sense. There are too much sense for them to pass up. So I loved what they did. And look, I know, but whatever. I live in Pittsburgh. So take it with a grain of salt. And they paid a whole bunch for him. But I think Ron Hextel needed to do something.

I think he needed to add somebody for Evgeny Malkin for a lot of different reasons. And I think the proof there, the indicator there, was that they took Brian Rust off Sidney Crosby's wing for a couple games. And that is something that you would input him with Malkin. And that's something you never see. So the fact that they did that let you know that they really put a premium on getting Malk and Goem. He's been good, point per game, whatever.

But I think they realized the necessity to have two legitimate scoring lines, especially what those other teams did. So he's definitely enough. It was a lot, but whatever. He's an excellent pickup. I'm with you, Sean. I think my concern, and I'm sure it's Ron Eckstalls as well,

is that he went into this deadline, hoping to actually had a scoring winner who had rights he could control to us this year. Yeah. And just the market wasn't there for those guys, you know. It was just hard to get in on those guys. So you settle for a rental. which, you know, he's got a lot of UFAs on his roster.

Oh, God. Yeah, just whatever. What's another one? Yeah. So, I know a big thing for him throughout all of this, too, was keeping that first, right? So he can, and he can look at the result and say like, hey, at least I did that. Because I know that there was, they didn't wait until yesterday to talk about Ricard Raquel. And it was a, it was, you know, a first versus a second.

And he held firm and ended up, ended up doing it. So, yeah, it's a lot. and I think Zach Asson-Race is a half-decent player to send out. I think he meant a lot to at least that fourth line. And I can't believe I'm saying this because the penguins, to be honest, like the Caps, have been one of those oversaturated national teams for a long time because of Cid and Gino. I actually think people are sleeping on them this year. I would not be surprised the Pittsburgh Penguins came out in that division.

I'm telling it right now. I think they can beat anywhere. If Jari is on point and they can continue. some of these, you know, expected goals and actual goals, which for, which for Carter Kel helps with. I think, I think you're completely correct. It's an amazing story. Like, Hextall, and again, I'm not going back to my series of GM interview, but he was one on the first I did. And he admitted on the record that, you know, he was hired. You know, you talked earlier, Craig, about how sometimes you need a fresh guy to come in and be able to do some of

the rebuilding that without the emotional attachment. That's really why Ron Hextall was hired. but a year into the job, the player's performance on that team forced him to delay what will eventually come. I mean, I mean, if this team's not winning games, he would have blown up this roster by now. Since Crosby came back post-COVID,

because he was sick, so from the end of November, or whatever it is, November 26th, there's some arbitrary date there, like a little bit after he got his legs under him. He's, I think, third in the league in points. Yeah. Like, how do you,

how do you not add to that guy's team when he's playing at that level? It doesn't matter what happens next year, right? Yeah, no, they're all in for now. And, you know, there'll be some interesting off-season decisions. I mean, that's a conversation for another day. But I don't know if they can re-sign both Malcon and Latangic. I'm not convinced of that. But we'll see.

Hopefully they make that decision with a really short summer in front of them. Before we wrap up the segment, I mean, this is the American show. So we can't ignore the fact that the New York Rangers are trying to piece together from what I can tell. The 2012 national U.S. National Development Team. I'm bringing in the last over the trade deadline, Frank Petrano. They bring in a deal with the Winnipeg Jets, Andrew Kopp, Jacob Truba. I'm not sure if they've acquired Seth Jones yet, but maybe he's on the radar. I don't know.

How do we feel about how the Rangers did? an interesting team because, hey, maybe they're, you know, better than we thought this year. They've got a hot goalie. Sean, you wrote a lot about like, hey, when you got a goalie going this well, like, put everything aside and make a play here. That Andrew Copt deal was, I liked it for them for what he brings at table. Well, you're saying they're bringing back the U.S. National Development team. They're also like trading for jets. True money. Yeah, I don't know.

I don't know how smart to move that is. Yeah, and I don't know how you guys feel about them. I think the Rangers are, I think the Rangers are ahead in the standings of where they should be on merit in terms of their heart. And that's not a shot at all. I think that they're doing the right things. Like, I think they're, where this team is headed

is where it should be headed. But they're not a true contender for me. Like everyone talks about the aid in the East and anyone can beat anyone. Now, that goalie, he could carry price, the Rangers into a cup final wraps. Sure. But it wouldn't I just think, and I love Gerard the line

as a coach. I mean, that was an excellent hire them. Everywhere he goes, players go through a wall for that guy. But they're just not as for real for me as some of the teams around them. Well, I mean, they're just Sturkin and the power play. Like, and you can't, we, you just said when we're talking about

Ben Chirot, can't necessarily rely on power play goals to subsist on when you hit the postseason. I watch the Rangers a lot. I'll say this about them at least because I feel like I've slagged them a lot over the course of the season just for their abysmal five-on-five numbers. They're playing better now than they were a month ago. Like in the games I've seen them over the last few weeks, they're rounding into shape at the right time. And a guy like cop who's, you know, whatever, again, he's like a goal scoring Kelly Yarncroke,

right, where he can play a lot of different positions. He can play a lot of different roles. I think he could, there's a possibility that between him and Tyler Mott that they could unlock something in that bottom six because that's where that's where they've been getting killed is that is that those guys those forward lines get absolutely caved in when not when they're on the ice so they went out and did something like i and shisterkin can win any in every series that he plays in right but yeah they're they're really they're fascinating to me honestly any anybody you you felt left the uh you wanting you're like boy and i and i you know i don't want to say losers because again we don't know but you know i was like i i i you had this inkling that maybe there

Red Wings would do something coming off of last year that, you know, they make the big Anthony Manta trade. There was some Tyler Bertuzi rumbling. Like, I've now, you know, Steve Eisenman has trained us to, to, like, he's always so understated in every availability. And he's like, no, you know, we did what we want to do. But, like, now I'm, like, always expecting him to do something, like, surprisingly aggressive. And they were quiet.

So, I don't know. Like, I don't want to say they were a loser. They didn't, you know, there was nothing they could do. They got, they got good return on Lettie and taking some money back. And that was all good, tidy work. but I don't know, now I'm expecting them to, you know, some of these crazy bold moves out of Steve. So I don't know. Any teams like jump out the other direction?

I had the same feeling. And I think I said this on TSN the other night, but I thought Detroit might just shock us again with some form of hockey deal. And I won't name the name that I thought actually might move. It's not a name that anyone's mentioned. But in a way, and it turned out that it was completely wrong. But, you know, I think. You know, I think that the least are a mixed bag for me because I think the Giordano and Blackwell deal was terrific.

I mean, for what they had to give up, but essentially for a team that doesn't want a playoff series in 18 years to go into the playoffs in that division with that goaltending right now is a bit mind-blowing to me, to be honest. I mean, you're playing Florida or Tampa in the first round, and I have no idea who's going to be their starter. I'm assuming it's a healthy Jack Campbell, but who knows at this point? Well, then we got a little Kyle on Kyle action. We saw Kyle, the Kyle Dubez.

I miss what Kyle Dubus said initially, but. You should have seen Laz yesterday. He was like on the Deadline show. He looked, he couldn't, he couldn't have been happier. He was thrilled. G.M. Let's go. That's free popcorn for a columnist.

That is free poplar. Yeah, baby. And for those listening who may have missed it, that was because Darren Dregor, my colleague put out a great nugget on Saturday. about how the Leifes and the Blackhawks talked about a mega deal where Martin Conjordi and Bram and Aigle would have come to Toronto for a massive halt and it fell apart obviously. I actually only knew from Friday that the leaps had tried on Hagel,

which doesn't surprise me because a lot of the front office guys in Toronto share their brain with the front office guys in Tampa. They think a lot like. I had no idea that they actually, I knew they had kicked tires in Flur. I never knew they actually talked about them in a real trade. So when Drinker put out all that info, it clearly irked the leaps that I got out. And I think it hurt them probably because if they do lose in the first round yet again, and if the goal tend to make shaky, they're going to get hammered for not getting for it, quite frankly.

Right, right. What do we think of what the Blues did? We're talking about Detroit, about, I mean, what, Heismanen said out, Messnikov and Nick Lettie. The Blues ended up with Letty. after like in terms of rumors and rumblings and whatever else they were in on so many it seemed like they were at least tangentially in on lindleman and guys and guys like that i mean their cap spaces their their cap situation is scary so i get why they didn't want to i mean they were hamstrung i think in some regards there but yeah i don't know well they really didn't want to trade their first for rentals which i think hurt them because venturot went for first and you know they called montreal all in Chorot. Yeah, it's underwhelming for me.

And listen, Doug Armstrong's made some amazing trades over the years. So he, he doesn't need a, you know, because, I think that's part of the reason

we were expecting something from them, right? Is it, Armstrong has that track record of being in there? Yeah, but Nick Letty

underwhelms me. You know, but again, you know, probably the actual fit should have been the two Armstrongs getting together.

And then Jacob Jake and tricking and ending up in San Luis. That would have been the better hockey deal fit in terms of a guy that would have helped him pass this year as well. But Arizona pulled back over the weekend after no one was willing to pay the high price that they want for him. But that would have been the fit for me. Oh yeah.

My other disappointment is that nobody could find a home for Phil Kessel. Nobody was like, hey, let's take, let's get, let's get fill in here and pop some goals in. Come on. I know the cab number is not great, but he's not owed like any money, whatever. Yeah, what's the way? Come on. Free Phil Castle. Free Phil Castle.

I touched on this in my Rumblings today. I was told by a couple of teams that part of the reticence in dealing for him is that they were concerned about the Iron Man Street. And that if you're joining a good team, it's kind of like the Keith Hannel thing all over again. But we may not want you to play back to back nights or whatever the thing is. I know some teams were worried about that. Yeah. So wait, wait. For years we've been hearing about Phil.

Does he care and all this stuff? And now, oh, he cares too much. We're so worried he's going to be mad about, poor Phil Kessel can't win. Yeah, it's too bad. It would have been nice to see him join a contender. All right, Pierre. Well, I get some rest.

Now you get to hit this fun stretch where it chills out in a minute. You get to go down to Boca Raton and talk to some G. Palm Beach. They're going back to the same hotel we were at for the Morty Governor's in December. Yeah, so at least I know where I'm going and I won't be lost. Oh, well, I'm going to be in Boca Raton. So good luck to you all. you in Pudan beach.

I'm still staying at the Steel enters. I will write a thousand words on tweaking the offside rule. No, I don't know what they're going to say. What are we going to fight over? What's going to happen the night before the GM meetings that's going to become the focus?

Like, that's the question. Is it? I don't know. Maybe it'll be revising no trade, no trade language and for trade. I don't know. Seriously. Wait, wait a second.

Why would they want to do that? Oh, boy. It is kind of ridiculous that a billion dollar league is, you know, we're talking about fax, jam-ups, and a line in a contract. Like, I don't know how the contracts look, but you think that no trade clause would be somewhere near the top. Like, you wouldn't have to get to the fine print. Like, come on, everybody. Yeah. Fine.

All right, guys, thanks for having me on. This was, despite being two American assholes, this was really, uh, plentiful. That means a lot, Pierre. Thank you. I've heard that from you before. That's a recycled line. All right. Talk to you.

See it, Pierre. Thanks, buddy. Thanks, brother. Yeah, that was great, guys. Thanks for having me, man. iPhone commenters. Welcome. Welcome to the section, baby.

And again, all you have to do is tap your phone 15 times. It's so not easy. By the way, iPhone users. Don't, don't for one second think it's an easy, easy process. Go ahead, Sean, take us through it. We're opening the gates here. I think someone, shout out to, who is this, Thomas W., who was the first iPhone user to even try.

He goes, are iPhones allowed to comment yet? This is on March 20th. Edit, guess it works. I'll have better questions for next week. Wow. Thank you, Thomas. And it worked for me too. Thomas W is like the Neil Armstrong of.

Plant the flag. Small comment for mankind. So I'm sure there are, I'm sure there's thousands, if not tens of thousands of you who were just going to rush to your phones now and leave. Just insightful comments and critiques and compliments for us. So have at it,

baby. So I just pulled up now. Oh, good. Well, I mean, we did, we, we held the commenters feet to the fire a little bit as they were critiquing us, which is fine.

You know why? Because you guys were naughty. bad little boys and girls you did a bad job on the comments last week but you can't you came back strong Jason B says and this is about our interview with Matt Tuchin who is unbelievable last week

transcribing that was unbelievable was even funnier because we said it's the least we ever spoken in an interview I think we said a hundred words between us which is wild I'm saying it's our best work yeah the less of us the better

two huge losers talking over each other. Jason B. Is Matt Duchenne going to be a coach GM broadcaster, journalist, or all the above? He's not going to be a journalist. Too smart for that. Incredible how much insight you add in the whole league systems in individual players, which is true. What do you have? Matt Dushain. Let's place Matt Dushain in a post-playing career job.

Here's the thing. And maybe this is wrong because, you know, Wayne Gretzky's doing TV. I just wondered, like, Matt Dushain has been. You know, he's loaded. And he's got this nice life with his fam in Nashville. So do you want to, like, I think you want to be smart about how you, whatever next step you make in your career? Like, do you really want to, like, go on TV and have to fly into wherever all the time? He seems like he's pretty happy in Nashville.

Right. Or do you, like, yeah, do you parlay that where your career has ended up into a job where you're, like, special assistant to the GM? of David Boyle. You know what I mean? I think he does that. You can do something like that and also pursue a career in country music or whatever his actual passion is, right? That too is a big.

I've learned that about Matt in the past couple weeks is that he's a big time country dude. So he's in the right spot. Yeah, he would, like, he would be the least surprising, like, career change candidate where he's like, Matt Dachain now has a new LP. Yeah, he wears cowboy hats and belt buckles now. So, yeah, we're going to go country music star. By inviting a Canadian on the American show, and this is Bruno L. You finally confirmed that Canada is the hockey reference.

I'm sure that was some kind of weird auto-correct, but he is, I guess, ripping on us for having Duchet on. We've had Canadians on before. We just had another one. Where do you think Pierre's from? Good erst boy. He also says Marie-Filly-Puland says hi. That is a knife twist that I.

don't appreciate bruno well um yeah we're allowed look we can have Canadians on the show as long as the content is about American based teams or the United States in some way like pierre was pushing

the limits pierre gets a little bit of grace here because we've known him a long time he's good at his job he's he's bringing informed you know we're learning something the you know the whole thing on like Phil Kessel and got American so it was fine like that was a great little tidbit I didn't realize.

So Pierre... He threw us a nugget on that one, baby. That was a good one. That was when he gave us because we're friends. Yeah. But generally, but Matt Duchame plays for the natural predators. We're talking predators. It's like that is not breaking Bruno.

That is not breaking the rules of the podcast, sir. We'll see. He asked a question about Mark Giordano, which is old news. So whatever. Also said great interview with Dushan. He was able to talk at length and you guys were total pros and didn't step on his toes, which I'll tell you, buddy, that was a complete accident. That was through no, we are not, I am certainly, I have nothing to, I have nothing to bring to the table there. That was

just because Matt was good. That was not without, that was not for lack of effort on my part, because God knows I'm always trying to step on people. I will say the listeners seem to know as well when they're congratulating us for not interrupting an elegant guess. Like, they're like, hey, I was, they probably, people were probably stressed that the, oh, when are Sean and Craig going to cut this great sound by dog? We should have, we should have found some way to turn into like a video clip where there were like multiple times when we're on, we're on camera, like, like, like, like, raised, like, reflexively raising our hands and looking at each other, like, got to bring out the cane and shut us up. And I mean, that's, that's, you know,

it's a Matt deserves. But yes, we'll also went on to compliment us even more. He loves our style of easygoing conversations rather than the rigid, list interviews. See, that's what you get when you have a pro like Craig and then someone like me who has absolutely no plan coming to anything about what I'm going to say. You get, but you're a great conversationalist, Sean. Oh, that's what I try to lean into. Thank you very much. Here's what I would like to know, the analytics on your questions. How many are questions versus how many are your observations? I'm, I'm honestly trying to get better than that because

I feel like, I feel like there are a couple. I feel like I was leaning into that too hard. honestly. We've joked about this before, but like, way too many times, I'm just like, yeah, well, that's pretty crazy, huh? That's like, you could just tag that on to every question I ask and it would fit perfectly. Yeah, I'm actually trying to ask more pointed stuff. Hey, Matt, remember that one time? Yeah, remember that one time? Remember? Uh, in the Uber? Oh, God. I was like, oh, wait, I actually, I actually don't want to talk about that. But I think that's part of what we're trying to do here. And like, I, I really, almost, almost go out of my way to try to make it as conversational as possible because it's a podcast.

It's not radio. People just want to hear us. I think that's the way it works is people want to just hear us BS for a while. And sometimes the balance gets a little out of whack for sure. But those are the breaks of the game. Jason Kay, hey guys, I'll be visiting both Pittsburgh and Detroit to see some baseball this summer. Is there one hidden gem restaurant I need to visit when I'm there? Also, any wrecks on things to do.

I balance out baseball with museums for the fiance. So any help there is appreciated too. Jason, there are a weird amount of good museums in Pittsburgh. Probably more than you would think. The Andy Warhol Museum is right by the ballpark. That's always a blast. It's a little expensive. And then there's a really good National Museum of History in Oakland on Forbes Avenue.

It's a Carnegie. It's a Carnegie Natural Museum of History. There's also an art museum there as well. So your set. Hidden Gem Rest. restaurants, just hit me back later because I could, I could talk about this for a way, way, way, how is he going to hit you back later? This is his only way to talk to you. Like, whatever, just DM me on Twitter or something. Here's, do you, hidden gem restaurants. Here's what

I'll say, Jason, Jason, do not eat by the ballpark. Stay away from the North Shore. Do not eat at those restaurants. Those are bars. And they're fine. They serve a purpose, but there are bars for people coming out of the arena or coming out of the stadium and coming out of the ballpark. If you're over on the north side, go to Beers Pub. It's B-I-E-R-S, Great Burgers, Great Beer. It's a little bit farther up on the north side from the ballpark, but it's really good. And if you're there also, maybe hit up, maybe hit up Federal Galley up there. It's a food hall, some good restaurant incubators there.

And that's just in the North Shore area. But enjoy. I feel like I got to follow up Detroit. I'm assuming you to go to the Detroit. Tipsy McStaggers. Besides, he said no, tipsy McSaggers, which is obviously my go-to wreck.

The one in the, one and only choice. I would say, if you're going to go to the Detroit Institute of Arts, the DIA, which I would recommend, there's a great little place called Chartreuse. I'm pulling it up down on Google Maps.

I talk like I'm 1,000 on the Googles. Chartreuse Kitchen and Cocktails. And that became my, I'm attached to it because when we launched the Athletic Detroit and I was meeting writers. Like I would meet Max there and I, Katie and all these people. Like anytime or we were trying to recruit a writer, it just became like the place. It was a good meal.

Like one of those places that's putting, you know, fried eggs and weird things, you know, like that kind of place. But like herbs growing on the walls. But really just a cool vibe and it's right next to the DIA. So that like do a lunch and a wander around and I think you'll be happy. And it's right by Wayne State. So just a cool area part of Detroit. And then I like Corktown if you're looking for just something off the beat. Perfect.

I think that's it. That's in the comments. We just had another one pumping our tires from Chris J. Talking about how great and insightful we are. Oh, why? You're not going to read that one? I think you should. Very insightful interview with Matt Duchyne.

Wish he would have stayed in Columbus. But I don't, you know, I said he also would like to hear what he thought of towards pregame speech ahead of 2019. in the playoffs game one against Tampa, which is I also, I would like to hear that. You could like, I feel like any playoff game, any pre-playoff torts speech, you could just throw a dart. I'm sure, I'm sure it was great.

Do you have a personal favorite John Torterell moment? Me? Oh, gosh. Just the times he yelled at me for asking about the other players in the other team before I knew that was the thing with him. Um, here's the thing if people don't realize about John Tortorella. I do have a favorite moment because, um, I remember going to Columbus and it was an off day.

And I don't remember why I was in Columbus. But it was just, you know, a practice day. And he gets this reputation. If you catch him after games, um, he's short and you don't want to really talk to him. And the media, it's terrible. And he's fighting with Brooks. With all the things that you all see. I, this happened to be a moment in time where.

it was a practice day. You know, there's a small group of us. And John just like he did his thing at the podium. And then he just wandered over. And, you know, Portie and I head over and just chatting. And he couldn't have been like he just loved whatever I was working on. It was right up as I don't remember what it was. But he was just happy to talk about it.

And so like, and then Portie, you know, this is one of the all time conversationalists in that atmosphere. And we probably got like, I don't know, 45 minutes. And I don't even think it was off the record. Like, I do think we had the mic's going. But it was just so casual, then probably no cameras. And like, when you get that time, I always just, when you get that insight from somebody who's telling great stories and stuff you've never heard before. And especially when it's somebody who has a reputation of being like, you know, what you see on TV.

That's my favorite, John Tooro. The no camera stuff is real. I don't know how much. That seems like an industry thing that, you know, maybe listeners don't care about or don't realize. But, and that's not to not people doing TV work either. But whenever those, whenever it's, that's human nature to behave differently and couch your answers differently and speak differently. When you're sitting in a podium or you have, or you're standing around your locker and you have three TV cameras, you know, jammed in your face. That is a very, very real thing.

Players are different and coaches are different. And the questions you see from journalists are different too. Print journalists ask different questions whenever, whenever TV cameras are running versus not. So, you know, and I've really come to terms with that. First of all, I will say, this is the stuff I miss. I miss this desperately. Like my current position, I don't go into dressing rooms.

People aren't. Nobody does. Well, first off, nobody really does still. We're finally back in that phase. Yeah, we're not even. So, like, it's been two years. Like, I mean, like, it's been two years since I've been in a, like, where you're just sitting down in next to someone who's really interesting and you're asking questions. And, um, I miss that. Like, I really like desperately. That was one of my favorite parts of my job. And, and that should be a bigger part of my job still than it is. And I'm completely out of practice with it because the penguins had no locker room have and haven't had locker room access for years. And that's home base here. Right. So it's such it. It, it, you really. can't underestimate the hassle of dealing of dealing and I we know that they're in place for for

for a good reason and whatever but it just doesn't make for insightful conversations which is a big part of the job and like I know I miss it you know and that's not yeah I mean that's like you were in you specifically I don't whatever I'll say this because who cares like you are better at that than anybody I've seen like I'm I'm a mucker and a grinder right like I ask B minus questions it's not it's not my thing I'm better at other stuff It's always like, it's always half a struggle for me, like, you know, existing in that, in that sphere. I do fine. But watching someone like you work a room, like I since, and not to get like, whatever, corny here, but I really do.

I miss it. And that's something I'm really excited for in the playoffs is not to just, not to just work rooms yourself is to see other people doing it. Because that is a very fun, very nerdy part of the job is seeing guys like you and Elliot Friedman and whoever else figure out ways to talk to players and kind of have those conversations because you do it differently. than the rest of us still. Thanks, Sean. It's nice. Now, I miss it. Like,

I won't be doing it. You get to, you get to go back in the rooms and I got to go on two meetings. It's cornball, but it's, but it's completely true. Like,

thanks, Sean. That's, I appreciate that. One of the best, you mentioned, I mean, Elliot and some of the veterans, I used to love Doc Emric

watching him because he truly would go into a, like after a skate or whatever. And Doc was just trying to get some anecdote. And so he's, he's likable anyways. He walks in and everybody, like,

nobody's like, He walked in and he always had, always had like a notebook and stuff. It was always, it was always, was always sick and no. It's just kind of like, like, puttering around the dressing room, basically. It was great. It was, and he would just sit down and guys would just light up. Like, even if, like, somebody like, you know, you and I and people might know, okay, they're, they're fine talking to us. But, like, Doc would sit down and people were excited to talk to Doc.

People actually wanted to talk to him. Crazy. Imagine that. talk to him because he was asking about their family he genuinely cared like I cared about the story I was working on it's it's a character flaw he Doc like is a great human being and he cares about people and he's just wanted he's asking and he knew that you know family member names and it's just like if he meets you once he's going to remember your name forever yes he's one of those he's one of those guys which is crazy to me um so yeah that that like that's who i would sit and watch and go, oh, like, to be that kind of person would be awesome.

And whatever, and we're not. I forget your name all the time. Who am I doing a podcast with? What's his guy? All right. And that's it. That's a nice way to put a pin in things here. We've got the hockey show Wednesday is Julian McKenzie,

joining the round table with Rod Pizzo, Sarah Sivian, and Jesse Granger, as usual. also shout out the athletic audio plus and Apple Podcasts. Do you get all of the great bonus content? And if you listened last week to the bonus content, Sean and I predicted everything accurate at the entry deadline. Correctly. This is a good, there should be a good week for the Wednesday show

because I think Jesse who covers the Knights and Sarah who covers the hurricanes should have quite a bit to talk about. I think those are interesting deadlines for those teams in their own ways. And not to mention Julian and Montreal, like Pierre touched on today, Montreal had a stellar performance from start to finish. I will say, not to drag this out, I'm less impressed when people sell.

Like, I feel like you and I could sell. Like, I could, you know what I mean? Like, I could get first round picks and second round picks. I don't know. Maybe I'm underestimated. So we did this, we did this all 32 thing, which is live on the website, where one writer graded out every team on a scale of one to 10. I had the I had the Panthers and I gave them a nine and accidentally put them at the top of the list.

Like I gave them the best grade out of everybody, which. Yeah. Wasn't exactly trying to do. But so I'm reading this and I see Eric Stevens grade for the ducks right below line. I'm just like, oh, God. Like how good, how good could it have been, right? But it was. Like, you sometimes you got to give, you got to give some credit to teams for that.

It's got to, and it's got to be good. It's got to be good to merit. to merit discussion, but I think that's where Anaheim was. All right. Well, thanks again to Pierre LeBron for joining the podcast. Maybe next time we're going to do it from his cottage as we'd like to talk about it all times. The address is 1-1-22 Boogie-Wogie Avenue. Oh, is that what it is? I thought maybe we'd get an invite.

If we kind of dragged that into two segments, we gave him two segments, maybe at the end. You got, you don't forget the invite. I'm not there yet. I'm not, I'm also not close. I'm not close enough to get there. We'll see. Maybe someday. We'll see.

So thanks to Pierre. Thanks to producer Jeff, as always, for doing the real work behind the show. And thank you for listening, everybody. Have a good week. Send some iPhone comments on that episode page, baby.