The Athletic Hockey Show - Rangers and Devils engage in good old fashioned line brawl in New York

Episode Date: April 4, 2024

Sean and Max look back on the Wednesday night line brawl in New York to begin the game between the Rangers and the Devils, Andrei Vasilevskiy leading a resurgent Lightning team who is looking to make a move in the East and the red wings fight to capture a playoff spot for the first time in eight seasons. The boys discuss the leading candidates for the Hart and Norris trophies and talk about John Tortorella's passionate press conference in Philadelphia on Wednesday. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the athletic hockey show. Good morning. This is the Thursday show. It's not Friday or whatever, whatever phony names we were trying to push it for a while. Same day. Every week, the rest of our lives. I'm Sean DeSilly.

Max Pullman's here. Haley Salveen is on assignment in Utica, New York. She's at Women's Worlds. Games there started yesterday. still kind of in the early stages. Team USA played last night. Layla Edwards became the first black player to see an actual international game

in the history of the program, which is extremely cool. And Haley wrote a really nice preview for the tournament overall. If you folks are interested, check that out. It's on the site. We're going to have more from her. My God, it's been going on for a day.

So there's 13, 14 more days of games. on and coming from Utica. So there'll be plenty of opportunity to talk about that. She's busy and out. So it's just me and Max. Maxie, how we doing? Hey,

aren't you that Wings for the game guy? Wings for the game. Oh my God. Bam, cash back. It's on every single episode of the show that I listen to. That's one of those ones that I, I don't know how anybody's listening to this podcast and hasn't heard that.

it's an ad read i forgot that i did i did that like months ago and immediately forgot it and it's still people have noticed let's just say i i i i feel like you know how me me and dgb talk about playoff uh commercials every year now you hear these like little lines that drive everybody crazy every single year where it's you know frog protect protection or whatever like there's there's these like dumb little snippets that come out of the postseason broadcast because we see the same commercials over and over and over again. It just burrow themselves in the people's brains. And I do feel pretty bad about becoming one of those myself because bam cash wings for

the game. Bam cash back is it's everywhere. I'm really sorry. You know what actually would have been a great commercial for the playoffs that they probably can't use for the playoffs now because it's been on so long? is the the Ryan O'Reilly, UC Soros, like, financial goals commercial, where he's like, UC, what are you, financial goals? No goals.

The funny thing was, that was actually, like, that wasn't even the script. That's what he just, and he wasn't like, it wasn't a play on words. He just truly is like, my money in a shoebox, like under, keep that cool $5 million a year in a mattress and in the house. Right. That's right. But that one's like you, I don't, I mean, I guess people could eventually get tired of no goals, but I find it funny every time I see it. I'm glad you do. That makes you the target demographic for BAM cashback because you can, you can deal with that kind of repetition and not want to find out my address and come and beat my ass in my house. Thank you. And we'll talk about the playoff race in a second, but we have to start, I think we're contractually obligated to start with the line brawl that took place. last night it's Rangers

it's Devils it's Matt Rampi mainly versus Curtis McDermid that's that was the heavyweight bowed it's obviously stemming from the dirty hit that Rampi laid on Jonas Sikenthaler a couple weeks back

this is retribution we knew that Rampi was going to fight right we probably knew that he was going to fight McDermid but I don't think anybody was quite anticipating a full line brawl and that is exactly what we got last night the visual was incredible. I know this is something that a lot of people are ready to be done with, and I think there's some evolved thought there that can go into that,

but I got to say, you're not to qualify, Kaveman, let's go. You like it. My Kemp, I love this. I love the visual. I love the full, you know,

I don't know that I would have loved as a coach in this game. I don't know that I would have loved being without two defensemen aside. for the entire thing. Every D in this game played crazy workload as a result. Right. But, yeah, I mean, you get the first second. I think it's Lazar and Visi are technically the first to make contacts. They're the only two that don't get ejected.

That might be my favorite part of the whole ordeal, right? Like, there's certainly a couple takeaways, a couple memorable bits here. I think upon watching the video again, VC, who was it? It was VC and Curtis Lazard. Those guys getting after it very quickly. I have some questions and I know you do too about about the order of operations there for them. Well, Sean thinks, just for everybody listening, Sean thinks that this is like orchestrated. They're like, if we go first, we don't get tossed. Everybody who goes after gets tossed. I think it's two inexperienced fighters who don't feel the need to like prep. They're just let's get it over with it's get right in there. either let's get it over with or they're just psyched. Yeah, right. They're like, they're like, all right, this is, I've never been in line brawl before.

Let's let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, between McNear made and Rampi, which is, you know, part for the course, especially when you're talking about guys like that who are is, is, is, in so far as much as fighters can exist in the NHL in 2024, those guys are fighters. And so they, they know, they know, they know, they know, they know, is, as much as much as much as much as much as, is, is, what the people want to see. They know how to go about their business. They, you know, do the dance and all that, all that stuff. So it took them a little bit longer to get into it. It did. And you get the, you get the funny meme of, I think it's McDermott. It's kind of in his crouch. He looks like he's

doing some karate almost. Spotted down. Yeah, he's doing Tai Chi. He's doing Patrick Swayze as Dolphin Tai Chi from, from Roadhouse. That was clearly, clearly where he was drawn as inspiration. The other thing on Thursday morning that I did that I that I've you know picked up on that I hadn't they hadn't quite realized last night as everybody does their Zapruder film analysis of of the fight video. Igor Shisterkin was ready to throw down. Why else would he take off his blocker? We have in it. We have unquestionable inalienable footage of the dude crouched over picking up his pick up his pick up. pick it up his blocker after you realize that it wasn't going to happen.

Someone needs to ask him about that. I want to hear from Shisterkin because that's what would have taken that fight from a line brawl, which we don't see much of very often, right? We saw the big one between Vancouver and Calgary. Oh, God, 10 or 11 years ago, we've had one since then, also in the Metro Division, I believe. But next level would have been the goalie fight. No, I'm sure that I'm sure that the Rangers are thrilled that you're circling out there, you know, throwing bombs because he's a very important part of what they do. But whatever, gave me in brain.

I wouldn't have mind seen a goalie fight. Sean, many have called our show the letterman of the 2020s. And so I'm inclined to ask you for your top five things that those parades of players are doing for the remainder of the two and a half hours after they've been ejected from this. God, that would be, that would be like a perfect, a perfect ladderman in top 10. Let's see. What's something topical that's happening that's happening right now that we can just, we can just, we can just throw in the mix. Researching the 2024 election, letting their, letting their ballots. Yeah, TikTok. Yeah, add some little advocacy work.

Figuring out their, they're in their, they're in their A-list app. for AMC theaters, figuring on what the movie times are for Friday, picking out a new one. Was this game in New York or New Jersey, by the way? That's a good question. I didn't realize it at the start. It was at the garden. Okay.

So they could just leave pretty much. Split. I guess you could have done that in New Jersey, too, pretty close to the subway there too. Could have snuck out the back door and bought a pack of smokes at the Dwayne Reed, which is what I used to do at the Mass and Square Garden. Is that Walgreens, by the way? I think they're on by the same people.

Producer Jeff, producer Jeff, trying to find the difference between Taylor's version and the originals. I like that. Because Taylor Swift, of course,

as we've established, will never give us a moment's piece. We're going to have to deal with reissues from her for the rest of our lives. But no, this is, this is fun,

man. I, like, we're caveman brain, lizard brain, whatever it is. I have a lot of time for a line, bro.

We'll just put it that way. If I get one, every few years, that's enough. I don't need this to turn into something where, you know, needs to happen again whenever. I don't know if the Rangers, the Rangers and Devils probably don't play again, but we don't need to carry this over to the next season. This can just be it. And we can all move on and say, that was, that was a funny kind of interesting way to spend, uh, to spend 15 minutes. And that can be that, right? Absolutely. I, I personally have to say, I love that there was, I think it was 27 penalties in the first period. And obviously, like

18 of those are in the first two seconds, two for the rest of the game. So the boys calm down. Or the refs decided that they had already earned a full games pay off of all the work they had to do in the first minute. It also was a game that had some kind of stakes for the Rangers because they are in a president's trophy race. And they were coming into it. There were one point ahead of Boston. Right. So you want to get two points.

The devils are out of the playoff race. I think it's safe to say that they are, even though we're going to talk about this in a minute. The East is a quagmire. But I think it's probably safe. It's also safe to rule out the devils, especially after their week because they got no points against Pittsburgh, no points against the Rangers. It's safe to say peace to them, but the Rangers have a lot to play for. It's the top seed in the conference. It's the best record in the league.

And I think they were at a point last night, you know, based on the teams they were chasing them, primarily Boston and Dallas, where they needed to get two. And they did. So they stay out in front of that at least. Yeah, top seed in the east gets the winner of the turtle derby, right? I mean, that's what you're playing for here is that if you're the second, if you're in a second division winner, basically, you're going to get the Tampa Lightning. And that does not look a fun task at the moment. And if you win the East, you were going to get one of the teams that are trying to go backward into the playoffs, which is much more desirable. Did you watch Tampa Toronto last night?

Because that was the other big game on the schedule with some actual implications for seeding and whatnot in the East. I did not. I saw Tampa earlier this week. They played Detroit. So I saw them on Monday night. It was actually a really good game. And the Lightning, obviously, they beat the Leafs 4-1 last night. I think even having not watched this specific game,

having seen enough of them recently, I think we can say that they have rounded into form and that they look like the kind of team that you do not want to play early in the playoffs, especially as your reward for winning a division. What did you see from Vasilevsky against the wings? Because he feels like, the Lightning as a team have been playing better

basically since the trade deadline. Like some of the moves they made, but I think we've talked about this in some capacity already, Duke Claire allowed them to drop Hagel down to the second line, which was just made their forward group make sense pretty much. So defensively, they've been a lot stronger. Vasilevsky was benefiting that for a while, but now it seems like he's elevated his game and he's doing it on his own now, too, which should be terrifying. That's the single biggest reason to be very, very fearful of the lightning is because that dude looks like himself in a way that he hasn't at any point the season until now. Yeah, we've talked about, you know, I know a few weeks back, we talked about Winnipeg and, you know, how much of this is Connor Hellebuck versus this lineup, blah, blah, blah. And when we were debating Winnipeg's lineup, it was, well, they might be deep, but they don't really have the superstars at the top. So a lot of it falls to Hellebuck, right? Tampa's kind of the scarier version of that and that they're not as deep as Winnipeg, but they do have the stars up top and they have Vasilevsky, who, you know, when he's on is at least as good as Hellebuck, if not.

not the just very best goalie in the NHL. And so I find Tampa to be one of the most fascinating teams at this time of year, because they can do whatever they want. They can go toe to toe with anybody. They can play any way. Even if they are not that deep in terms of their third and fourth lines, they have been through the wars and they know how to play that style of game that you have to play in the playoffs.

And I agree with you. I think Vasilevsky looks ready to potentially carry a load for weeks. if not a month plus in the playoffs, if the rest of the team can get him through. Yeah, I mean, he's been at, you know, three goals allowed or better in every game since March 14th, right? So we got three, three, three, one, you know, there, actually, I take that back.

There was an outlier there against the Kings, but he's been, we're approaching, you know, three weeks of him looking like the dude that was, the best goalie in the league for a solid chunk there. So that's scary stuff for sure. And that, again, is why it's relevant when we're talking about the Rangers or the Bruins or whoever, stay away from that team. If you're one of those, Carolina is in the mix, too, there too. We should mention them at the top of the east.

Get away from, get away from Tampa. but take your chances with Philly or Detroit or the Islanders or, yes, this is not a joke, the Pittsburgh Penguins. And you want no parts of Andre Bacelowski when he's playing this way, right? Correct. You know who else on the Lightning really caught? I mean, he's been a really good player for a long time, but looks like he's leveled up as Anthony Sorrelli. He looked, he should have had a hat trick in the game against Detroit. He had two different goals waived off.

I think Detroit fairly fortunate on at least one. One, it was a pretty clear run into the goalie. But one was just kind of a camera angle thing that they got a little fortunate on. And he had two goals on that before that against the Islanders. If he is leveling up into being a legit number two playoff on a contender center, that's a really scary thing for the rest of the league. They pay him like one, so they need him to. Yes.

But for a long time, he has been that kind of like shutdowny guy that maybe you're over the moon to have as your three seats. and, you know, you move them and maybe play second line minutes because of the matchups. But if he's going to be like a, you know, 55, 60 point guy with Selky impacts, that's a terrifying thing for the rest of the league. Absolutely. They pay him like one and they play them like one too. When you're on a line with Brandon Hagel and Stephen Stamcoast, like solid defensive impacts aren't going to do it by themselves anymore. Like you have to, you have to produce points. That's just the way that it goes. And Sirelli's breakout happened a few years ago. he was Selky caliber, right?

He got votes and he deserved them. But, you know, last year was a little weird for him. It was the first one after signing that big contract. You know, what we're seeing now, man, he's 19 points, 22 assists. You know, he's looking better recently than he did at the start. You know, he's scoring, certainly scoring it, you know, producing points at a higher pace. But he's on a scoring line. And also, like we said before, that,

one of the big factors for Tampa was that Stamcoast, like, great as a player as he was, good as a player as he still is, you know, he's turning into a defensive liability. And Sorrelli by himself wasn't enough to, to turn that truck around. But combined with Hegel, who's just a, you know, really, really good all around hockey player, that's a complete line now.

And that's a big part of a big part of their success. So the wings meanwhile It does feel like there a lot A lot of what's going on here revolves around them right Because they're because they had that game on Monday They got some big ones coming up Seems like you're going to be coming to Pittsburgh For what is all of a sudden a relevant game

Next week Like what is the state of stuff for the wings It has has it has Have things calm down in the last three or four days when it seemed like after it seemed like they were really well and truly watching the wheels fall off there. Because it's it did it does. It seems like they've right it because they won earlier this week. The vibes are at least a little bit better after after some pretty some pretty tough going there, right?

Yeah, their month of March was absolutely horrible. They won three games the entire month. I think three and 11 is what that comes out to. And you're going to say, Max, surely a bunch of those losses were an OT, only one of them, or two of them, sorry. One was OT, one was shootout. They left a lot of points on the table. They went from a position where they were eight points up on a playoff spot to now they are, you know, they were at one point chasing this by a couple points.

So morale was not high when I left the team in Carolina late last week. I leave. They pick up three points in two games at Florida and at Tampa. So when I saw them again for the first time since Wednesday, yeah, spirits are a little higher. I think there's kind of a realization of where they are. Now they get through this road trip. That road trip, I will say, it was really tough. It was at Nashville, at Washington, at Carolina, at Florida, Tampa. For stretches in the last week, it's bounced around, but those have all five been playoff teams. And now they will come home and they get the Rangers, which is really tough.

But then it's a, it's a little bit easier after that. It's Buffalo. It's Washington. It's Pittsburgh. and those aren't easy per se, but they're either home or they're not playoff teams. So I think they see an opportunity here to kind of grab the race, but opportunities all they had in the month of March, and they play with that Don Larkin. I get it. It's really tough.

It was a factor. But it has been tense times, I guess, is the best way to describe it around Detroit. So there's basically there's, well, not basically, I shouldn't say that.

There are two playoff spots that are, it looked like they're going to go to Metro Division teams, right? If you include third place in there, that's a, that's a, that's a, that's a, that's a, that's a, that's a, that's a, that's a, that's a, that's a, projections. He actually just updated them like 20 minutes ago. Basically a dead heat between the caps, the wings, the flyers for, for, uh, for, for

playoffs odds. They're all three of them are at, well, I, caps, caps in the wings are 49 percent, flyers are at 48. Islanders aren't far now and they're there at 42% and then you have Pittsburgh hanging around on the hanging around on the peripheral at 11% but Pittsburgh's chances come with a major asteris because they're playing Washington tonight. They play the Islanders again and then they're playing Detroit

next week. So it's a big ass because that's a very mediocre team but if Pittsburgh went away to get five or six points out of that out of that stretch man they're going to be they're going to be in it too. hard to believe. Yeah, honestly, so many of these teams I have counted out at various points this season. Ironically, the devils are the one that I held on to forever. And they're finally the one that that actually looks like they're actually out of this.

But yeah, I mean, Pittsburgh. We wrote Pittsburgh's obituary a week after the trade deadline. We wrote Washington's obituary. I did that on two separate pods. But Pittsburgh's dead. we talked about it. McIndo and I talked about it and they're not. Like you,

it could, should people be grossed out by that fact, probably? Because it's not, it's not a good sign for the, for the rest of the conference earlier, at least that, that middle class in the conference.

But it's true. Also, probably should watch the top of the Atlantic division, I think. I like, it's, you know, it might be too late for any of this to matter,

but, Florida's playing poorly. Boston is, you know, not stacking wins. And, uh, and,

in, in, in, in the leaves just, whatever lost some ground to the, it lost some ground to the lightning. So that whole situation might be more in flux than, than,

than we realized. Like it hasn't, we're not seeing nightly shifts in matchups or nightly shifts in, in the standings, but there's, everything's condensed enough over the last. few days to make it to make it even more interesting. Then there's a whole other conference to talk about.

Did you know that? There is a Western conference. People forget that. There was only a Western conference. It seemed like on Wednesday, although I guess we spent the entire first segment talking about the two East games. So maybe.

Who cares? Maybe not. Did you watch Dallas Edmonton? I did watch a bit of that one. I was flipping around. I watched a chunk of it. I did see Wyatt. I did see Wyatt Johnston's 30th.

third season, which is, I feel like Dallas in a nutshell, right? Like, they're like he those that, that class of guys, whether it's Johnston, whether it's we saw from Stancoven earlier, whether it's Thomas Harley, that like early 20s, uh, group like cohort of players has brought so much to that to that franchise and in Johnston. I honestly, until he scored the goal, I don't think I realized that he was as close to 30 as he was. I knew that he was maybe knocking on the door, but I don't think I knew that he was sitting on 29. So 30 goals for a 20 year old, man, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's impressive stuff. And it's important stuff for, for the stars. I just love, you know, the,

the star 17 draft classes like, that's like the modern marvel, right? It's, he's getting Ottinger Robertson. It's not going to be quite that level, but I do love that they got white Johnson and Logan Stankovin in the same class in 2021. Like that is, it's just another one of those like, oh, well, if you do that. You're going to be a good team really fast. If you get one of those guys outside of the first round, too. Yeah, and they did. Brother.

Not bad. And Greshnikov is the guy they turned into Chris Tanna, by the way. Greshnikov was also one of their picks in that draft, and they turned him in Chris Tanna. All right, we're back. It's time to check in on the awards race. I feel like we haven't done that in a couple weeks. And there has been movement, maybe not quite as much as you would think, especially in the Norris. but we'll focus on,

we'll focus on the, on the, on the, on the, on the, on the, on the, on the,

on the, let's start, let's start with number one. Um, where are you on the, who's at the top, who's at the top and has it changed for you in the, over the last two weeks, let's say,

uh, it hasn't changed for me. It's just, it's the toughest heart race since I've been voting, right? Like, it's, I don't want to tip my ballot too much here. Here's what I'll say.

Of the main contenders, I think you can make really strong cases for at least four or five guys. I think the jets slide over the last recent stretch. You could take that one of two ways. You could take it to hurt Connor Helberg's candidacy because the jets are sliding. Or you could take it to say, well, this is kind of what everyone was talking about. When Connor Helbuck is not superhuman, they are not a, you know, division winning team. not to say he's bad. Yeah, but then the flip side is that he hasn't been that good either.

Part of the reason they're, yes, he's, yes, he's very important. It's not most important player. I think there is a difference between most important and most valuable. Connor Hella-Buck is more, is probably more important to his team than anybody else. But that goes for good and that goes for Hill. And I think that's what we've seen over the last couple weeks because he hasn't been great. And the end result is, you know, whatever. They're in a pretty bad.

spot at the moment. So maybe you dock him down. But the other four, like, it just keeps ascending, right? It's Nathan McKinnon who has been as consistently dominant as anybody in the NHL this year. It's Nikita Kutrov, who's somehow leveled up and nobody can figure out how at this age Nikita Kutrov found a way to level up in his game. It's Austin Matthews, who I don't think he's getting to 70, but I think he's going to get

to 65 goals. And it's Connor McDavid, who overcomes this slow start and might catch Kutra. Like this is as good a heart trophy race as I can ever remember as a voter, which granted I'm not that old, but in my voting tenure is the best I can remember. It just shows how much of this is based on hair splitting, right? Because Matthews has 63. If he gets seven in his last seven games, you know, obviously he'll hit a number that we haven't seen in quite a while. Dom actually had a little bit in 16 stats that published this morning. about, you know, how often have we seen

Austin Matthews score seven goals and seven games? Like, not out of the question. It's, it's, it's, uh, more possible for him than any, anybody else in the league at the, at the moment. So we'll see how that goes. Um, it just feels like it's gonna,

it feels like it's gonna hinge on who finishes with the most points. I, I, I think, I think that's where, you know, that's how close these guys are, especially when you're talking about, Kutjurav and McKinnon and

McDavid that Connor guy whatever his name is he who didn't have zero points last night what a bum he's uh he's now four points behind Kuturov who who stacked up a few last night as well so there so that is something to watch I I feel like people

just aren't going to know how to differentiate all that much between especially especially it ends up being you know Kutjav and and McDavid because like there's no wrong there's no wrong choice i think that's i think that's one of the that's one of the blessings here if you're someone who has to worry about about about making about making this call is that like i don't think you know i don't think anybody's going to vote for

kuturav or mcdavid or mckinan and come out of it come out of it getting getting slam for it because all three are really all three are really good they are and that's that's definitely how you try to console yourself, but like it, it is something that like, I don't know, this is the kind of thing that kind of earworms and, and, uh, I can't stop thinking about it until I file the ballot really like a week after I file the ballot and is when I can kind of purge it. So let me take you into like what I'm struggling with in this race right now. Again, I'm trying to not tip my hand here. Nathan McKinnon's the most dominant player I've watched this year. When I've watched him, I think this is the MVP. How much should I care about that versus a round number like we haven't seen in

forever, like what Austin Matthews is doing. Like what I think, I think Matthews is out, honestly. Like, I think at this point, we need to talk about the other three guys as the primary candidates. Okay. So McDavid to drive the Oilers back from how they started. And in addition to that crazy points production stat, his expected goal share, Sean, is 62.12, which is bananas, right?

That's unheard of. And then you have Kuturav, who I think falls a little bit behind in that expected goals. He does. His defensive impacts are just not not on par with the rest of those guys or with those other two guys. And that that's the point where you're like, okay, maybe, maybe I can eliminate him. But then the flip side is like, well, what if he wins the scoring title by eight points? You know, like what if, who knows? Like, is it that, is it that crazy?

I don't know. And when we talk about like most valuable to his team, I think it's totally possible. The lightning would have missed the playoffs this year without this kind of performance from Nikita Kutrov. And I guess you can maybe, I'm sure you could say that for the Oilers without McDavid. I get that at some point like you get to this semantic place. But for a team to be in the lightning's kind of fragile,

delicate position and for him to have willed them the way that he has, a lot of it's on the power play, which counts by the way. Like we rule out the power play a lot. I don't think we should do that in award voting. So that's kind of where I'm at is like it to me when I watch McKinnon I see the most dominant player that I've watched this year in terms of just taking over games willing an elite team the way he has and he has the numbers to back this up. When I watch McDavid, I see something very similar and it's crazier numbers. Matthews has this potential round number that we have not seen in a really long time.

And Kutrov I think is this kind of indispensable like where would this team kind of be without him doing what he's. doing thing. And that is a stellar field of candidates. I agree with you. You can't go wrong with it. No one's going to kill you on any of these picks. But I do want to get it right. Which isn't, which isn't always true. Like, like, there are, there are fields and candidates in the past where it's like there have been line there, there have been landmines where like if you vote for dude X, there's going to be a portion of the public that's going to rake you across the coals for it. And I don't feel like that particular trap is in place. I really have.

I've been thinking about Kutrov a lot because I think, I think the danger for Kutrov is that people are going to look at the way Tampa has played over the last month. And they're going to, by all appearances, they're going to go into the playoffs on a heater and look like themselves. And have Andre Vasselowski playing well and yada, yada. This is not the 2020 lightning. This is not the 2021 lightning.

This is not even the 2023 lightning. We've seen a step back from Stamco's. We've seen Kutrave take more of, you know, account for more of the production when it comes to him and Braden Point. Hedman hasn't been, you know, Norris caliber, Victor Hedman. Surgachev gets hurt. They were a bad defensive team for the majority of the season. and it had to deal with

with Vasilleschi being hurt for the first eight weeks or whatever. So if that's, if that's the barometer, if it's like who, which player played the, played the greatest role in getting his team to the postseason,

I think I might, I think it might be cootra of. But on an individual, on terms of individual merit and individual greatness this season, I think it's the other two guys. So it's, it's sort of,

you know, flip a coin. Try not to try not to lose sleep over it, but I can guarantee you that especially if you, my boy, are casting a ballot,

sleep will be lost. Yeah. Big, big anxiety hours for Max when it's, when it's award voting time. It's 2 a.m. Me waking Allison.

What do you think? McCanneter, McDavid. Roman, Romani, he really, really played well going down the stretch. Is he enough to think of it?

He has. He has played really well done this. Let's pivot this to Norris, actually. Yes, please do. This is a good. Pro segue, baby. That's right. All year, this has felt like Quinn Hughes's award.

And it has taken kind of a steady climb from McCar and Yosi to remind everybody that they belong in the same conversation. I don't know if I am just all in on the Hughes narrative, though, but I am finding it hard to see myself voted for someone other than. Absolutely. Absolutely. I think part of this is just Vancouver, right? Like Vancouver is the kind of surprise team of the NHL in a lot of ways this season. And I, you know, there's a lot of really good players on Vancouver, obviously. But I have a hard time finding anyone other than Quinn Hughes,

who I can say I think has been as responsible for the leap that they've taken. Yeah, and you don't, especially this last month or however long it's been, and they've been, yeah, the performance falling off a bit. You can attribute that to a lot of things. You can say Thatcher Demko's hurt. You can say Elias Pedersen's not producing.

All that, all that's true. But the top end talent, the guys that got them there, and the guys that are going to make it, who they're going to live and die on once the postseason rolls around. Of the three,

Pedersen Demko use, he's the one who's held up, his end of the bargain. Because over the last month, he's still up over 60% and expect the goals percentage. Um, actual goals percentage he's at 65. Like there hasn't been a that much. Have they dropped off as a team? Yeah. Has Quinn Hughes dropped off individually, uh, not as much. And I think that dude built up more than enough equity over the course of the season, you know, from October to late March where you can't you can't slag them all that much for for a little bit of a little bit of a down take at the end well and last night's kind of a perfect example right should the

conucks have needed a late push to beat the arizona coyotes two to one no did the one goal or did the first goal come from quin hues and did quinn hues set up the second goal with two minutes left to win it yes he did you sure did you know and honestly as i'm talking about this does Quinnies belong in the five spot over Connor Hellebuk on an MVP ballot by this, by this logic. No, you're not allowed to vote for a defenseman or goalies. We know this. They have their own awards. I've voted for a goalie.

I put a goalie first on my MVP ballot before. I know. And that's why I was bringing off Hella Buck. Who did you? Who was that? Was it Heliburg. It was just circken. Yep, that's right.

I thought he was unbelievable two years ago. He was. He was. But yeah, I think it's just something. It's more, this is just a conversation point. And this is where we're guilty of certain things, too, where it's like, has Roman Yosey been great of late? Like, absolutely.

Is he going to, is he going to finish at a point per game again? Like, certainly seems that way, right? But season's not just two weeks at the end of it, right? It's just the way, it's the way it goes. So, yeah, I don't know. And also, like, it's so funny that, not to knock kale macar because he's not having a bad season or anything but it is funny that like there there have been those a few stretches for him where it just seems like he's played himself

out of out of the top spot right which is weird that's not something that's not something it would expect from uh from that dude and he's he's numbers statistically you can these guys look identical mccar and he used to one thing that i've kind of struggled with and i was talking about this was somebody earlier this week. Like, do you think that the Norris winner can be on the same team as a guy who finishes top two or three in MVP voting? Can the Norris? Can those two things make sense at the same time?

Norris winner? I think so, but it's, that's also, that's also tough. It's like a mental roadblock on one of the two things, whichever one it is, right? It's like, you know, are they the MVP if they're playing X percentage of their minutes with the Norris winner? Like how much do we factor that? Are they the Norris if they're getting to play with the MVP? I don't know, you know.

It's the same roadblock that stops people from voting for gold. Like by the letter of the law, the heart ballot should be just the heart final should be five goal tenders every. That's just the way like it could be. Yeah, it could be. Definitionally, there's no other position has as much value to a team as a goaltender does. but that'd be boring and that's certainly not the way that you know that's not the way that people approach it so theoretically you should be allowed to have a guy who wins the norris on you know

on a on a on a team with a with a heartworm right but it just doesn't it doesn't seem like it's in the cards either i think that's just one of those things that intellectually is possible but in practice when it comes time to actually cast the votes and count them up it just doesn't seem like something that would happen. That's kind of where I'm at too. I can I can get myself there on logic right. The Norris doesn't say anything about most valuable to team is just who's the best all around defense in the NHL right and there's certainly a case that that's Kim McCarr every single year. There are also practicalities that come into you know you look at your ballot and you go does it feel right to have the MVP and the Norris from the same team? Sometimes

it is but I don't know that's something that I'll run into I'm sure when I'm agonizing over this. Coming up in the next segment, we have a spirited debate over the Lady Bing. Stay tuned. Just kidding. All right, we're back. Final segment. Maxie, we had a great torts moment on Wednesday. I feel like we've had several of them over the course of the season. The first I saw of his little soliloquy was from Kevin Kurz,

who tweeted it out in its entirety on Wednesday. It's just kind of a look into what makes toward it. It's the Tortorella manifesto. It's like his mission statement is a coach. He said a bunch of stuff, but the relevant part is this. If a player's going to quit on me or players are going to quit on me because I'm trying to make them better people or better athletes,

you've got the wrong damn coach here and you've got the wrong damn people here. My job is to push athletes, which is true and also not something you hear publicly from coaches all that much. Just a reminder. I've set up before, man. I'm a total. I'm a total for a total sucker for torts. I think he makes a ton of sense in Philly for a variety of reasons. And I think, you know, this last little swoon, notwithstanding, I think there's a lot to be said for having a dude like that in place at the top of an organization. I'm a sucker for him. I can't help it. I was talking about this with Allison. We saw the original rant come on TV, whatever night it was,

Tuesday night. Mm-hmm. And, you know, he talks about soft and all this stuff. And certain guys who don't know what they need to do and all this stuff. And we're talking about, like, you know, would you like to kind of play for that? And I don't, I don't think I would like it. But I think I would respond to it. And that's kind of like, that's kind of the mission statement, right?

It's like, I think I'd be extremely uncomfortable for the entirety of the time. And I think it would yield my best results. And I have to be honest about that. I think that's, I think that's where I'm at. And I think, I also think part of me would, I think party would kind of like it. I respond to getting yelled at. Like, that's just, that's the way it is. That's always, that's always, it's always, it's always been true.

Like, we, we had talked about this. I asked Frank O'Carrado about this on the Wednesday show a couple weeks ago. Like, what kind of personality type do you think thrives under John Tortorella? Because Frank played for him. And Frank, you know, got along well with him. And Frank felt like he, you know, meshed. on a coach player level with them. And he said basically,

I'm paraphrasing here, but he was like, it's either guys who are, who don't care at all or guys who care a ton and respond, and respond to getting, to get yelled at, right? Like older guys who were just,

who was just like, who were just like steady as she goes, unflappable. It's just like water over the bridge. They tune them out. And then there's also another class of, another class of dude that, you know,

here's that sort of stuff. and for better or worse. I don't want to crack open the psychology of how why people respond to John Torterella, but he gets the most out of a certain, out of a certain personality type. I don't know. It's a scene in miracle, right? It's, I want you to be a hockey player. I am a hockey player, right?

Like, that's the, that's, that's what it is. You know, it's, it's, you, you fire them up and you get him going. And if you have to be their enemy for a minute to give them something to go hard for, that's what it is. some player was it Morgan Frost this is a good

question there was a great quote a couple days ago from oh my God I'm forgetting I'm forgetting the specifics of it which is very embarrassing

but some player like to the media said like he made a mistake in overtime and he was like hey like excuse my language. I effed up.

Like, right? And any, I cost my team. And that's the sort of stuff where I think that's, I look at that and I'm like, this is, that's accountability. That's torterella stuff.

And that is like, goes hand in glove with the sort of stuff we heard from him a couple days ago. So I don't know, man. I'm, I know it's because I'm getting old or what, but I'm a total,

I'm a total sucker for all that stuff. And we'll see if it actually works because the flyers suck right now. So that's, that's the flip side of the coin, right? Like, like, they're, they're hanging on for dear life, not just the third place in the Metro Division, but to a wildcard spot period. All this stuff makes a ton of sense whenever, whenever the results are where they need to be. And Tortorella just by nature, by his, by his nature, by his track record, like, he

opens himself up for criticism whenever he says this sort of stuff, because sometimes it doesn't work. But whatever, I don't care. We need a goal scoring draft update. I don't think we've given the people one of those since we actually made our picks back on February 22nd. I agree. We do need that. We each pick three.

It's for some context as to what was going on in the league whenever we had this little exercise. Austin Matthews had just hit 50 goals. Connor McDavid was in a little bit of a goal scoring skid, but that was when he was still piling up a ridiculous amount of points. and we just needed, we wanted to see who would, you know, the premise, Max, right, was that we just needed to pick. Who do you think is going to have the most goals from now until the end of the season? And the results have been interesting. It's pretty close. You are in the lead, unfortunately.

That is unfortunate. Also unfortunate is that we let you get the individual player who actually has the most goals at the third pick. That's McKinnon. I feel like I should get some kind of award for that. You have 30. You had Leon Drysidal with 12, Miko Raton with 10, Connor McDavid with 8, I'm in second with 26 overall. That's McKinnon with 14, Sam Ryan Hart with eight, and Alias Pedersen, who's got the

fewest, that's, see, that's why I have the guy with the most goals and I'm in second place is because Elias Pedersen has the fewest of any player we picked. He's got four. So I'm at 26. Haley, of course, is in last place. Posternak with 10, Kutraub with 6, Sydney Crosby with 8 for 24. So we are within,

there's a six goal span between first and second. I think a lot of outcomes are still on the table here. When did we do this draft? February 22nd. February 22nd. Hang on, I'm going to pull this up and see if we left anybody really bad, like really notable on the board.

I'm sure we did. I'm sure we did. Oh, yeah. Okay, so I lied. So McKinnon does not have the most. He has the most in our league. Yeah. Zach Hyman has 18 since then.

Braden Point 15 and Philip Forsberg and Timel Meyer both have 15 apiece. 18 for Zach Hyman in that span. Imagine if you drafted Zach Hyman over at least Patterson. It's a lot of hard work from Zach Hyman, baby. All right, all right. I think that's it for us, Max. Do you have anything you want to close out on? No.

I thought this is this is really fun. This is the first time I've covered a playoff, like serious playoff race this deep into a season. And wow, is it a lot more interesting than the alternative? A lot of adrenaline. And I guess I see why you guys all like this stuff, huh? I don't speak for yourself. It's fine.

The important thing is you're going to be in Pittsburgh on Wednesday, if it seems like for wings, for wings, pens, it's a big game. Don't care about it. I'm just psyched to have dinner with you at some point. point next week. So that's fine. That's right. It'll be great. We'll hit our old haunts. Yeah. Name, name redacted. We don't want any, we don't want any crazy fans coming up to us. It's at some of the bars we're going to hit, you know. You just want to live. Just leave us alone.

Leave us be. Good show, brother. We'll talk to you soon. Haley, like I said, she'll be back. She'll be back at some point, but he's got more important things to do as, as per usual. Thank you folks for listening to us. Thank you for listening to us. Thank you for listening to the show. in general. Leave a five-star rating and review it if you're enjoying it and that's your thing. Next show is on Monday with Mendez, Laz, and CJ and Pierre LeBron are back for their segment as well. You don't have to listen to me on Monday either. So congratulations and talk to you soon.