The Athletic Hockey Show - Ray Shero and Shane Doan call in, Canadian Division heats up with Tkachuk & Muzzin, Dunn on the block and Ask the Insiders

Episode Date: January 27, 2021

Ray Shero, the former General Manager of the New Jersey Devils, joins Scott and Pierre to discuss how he is staying active in preparation for his next job. Shane Doan, joins to talk about returning to the Arizona Coyotes in the front office and the work to be done in Glendale.Plus, Scott and Pierre address Kelly McCrimmon going behind the bench in Vegas with the Knights coaching staff isolated. The guys analyze the Laine/Dubois deal and how US teams have the advantage acquiring players because of the strict Covid-19 rules in Canada. They take a look at Vince Dunn who is on the block in St. Louis and the antics in Calgary last night between Jake Muzzin and Matthew Tkachuk.Finally the guys answer listener questions in another edition of Ask the Insiders. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hey everybody, Scott Burnside, back for another edition of The Athletic Hockey Show, two-man advantage Pierre Lebrun. It is such a strange, a strange world, but it's a strange hockey season that we are embroiled in, and every week there's more and more stuff that happens. How are you feeling about, it feels like this season has been underway for about nine months or so, It's really been, what, two and a half weeks? What's your overall vibe when you think about this most unique of 2021 seasons? Well, first of all, it's almost like two seasons and one, right?

For a lot of us, I mean, you know, I came back to work August 1st to pick up the bubble and the playoffs and all that. So it hasn't stopped since then. And, you know, I always, you know, it's kind of funny when the season started two weeks ago, I had some friends text. Oh, you must be happy to be back to work. They don't know you. Thanks for not noticing the three months of off-season carnage that I was involved in in terms of return to play.

But that's a – but yeah, that's the thing for me is that it's just been nonstop between the end of last season to staying on top of all the news and the offseason and return to play. And then the season finally starts. It's just been a blur. Like it's sort of like the 19, 20, 21 season is what it feels like to me. Yeah, no kidding. Well, and it feels like, I mean, you and I were both in, well, you were involved.

And we all sort of pressed into service on Saturday when Pierre-Luc Dubois was, dealt to the Winnipeg Jets and Patrick Liny came to become a Columbus Blue Jack. And Jack Roselvic as well, I don't think we should ever forget him. I think he's going to be an important part of that deal also going to the Columbus Blue Jacket. But that does feel like a long time ago. I do want to circle back to it before we get to our first guest. It's a banner day today. We're going to have Ray Shiro join us.

Shane Donne recently repatriated with the Arizona Coyotes is going to join us later as well. But before we get to that, there's always news of the day, and we should have expected this. And you've been warning people really since the return to play discussions began that this was going to be a season about really adjusting and pivoting and being nimble. we're less than, well, we're about 12 hours, call it 12 hours, we start taping from a game where the Vegas Golden Knights couldn't use their coaching staff because of COVID-19 protocols and GM Kelly McCrimmon lurches into action for really what was a terrific, entertaining game against St. Louis Blues. Blues end up winning in a shootout. But that's part of the reality we're dealing with, right? that Golden Knights coaching staff had to be isolated. We don't know how long. We don't know now what will happen to Pete DeBore and his staff moving forward.

But this is, again, part of the daily life for NHL teams and by extension, NHL fans as well. Right. So while the situation that we've had with the Washington Capitals where they're missing four marquee players, I could have seen coming and so could have you, right? Because that was part of the ideas that we had in our mom. that some team was going to, you know, trip up on the protocols and then have to, you know, dress a lesser lineup. And the caps have done all right, actually, through all that.

But I could have never, I didn't even dawn on me that the coaching staff could be missing games. But of course, that is part of it. You know, I'll just say a member of the Vegas coaching staff tested positive and they got to get the whole group out of safety for now until there's further testing. Now, they're lucky. Kelly McCrimman has done a fair bit of coaching. in his life, you know, for those listening who don't follow junior hockey, but he was a long time coached GM and owner.

Did it all. Did it all. And Brandon with the Week Kings and WHL. But it's always fun when the GM comes down and coaches. Like I remember when Bob Murray a couple years ago, finished season as head coach at Anheim. Yes. I was, I just, I love seeing those images. Of course, Lou Lambello has done it over the years.

Kind of neat. Well, and don't either. Oh, and I know Lou Lamrello. has mentioned. And I think Bob Murray, that was part of the, you know, I mean, part of his rationale. I mean, they weren't going to be in the playoffs anyway. So it was sort of that was not, but it gave him as the general manager of the team who is, you know, his vantage point is always from, you know, the press box or the suite or wherever he watches. But to be on that bench and watch, you know, that up, you know, from that bird's eye view of where his team was

at and what the interplay was like and your body language, all those kinds of things. Like, honestly, I think, you know, which may be hard to do. But, you know, I can't wait. We're going to have to ask Ray Schiro this when we chat with him. This is a good, there will be a good segue. I don't know whether he ever did it. But that perspective, I think, would be really important. And not that Kelly McCriman doesn't, you know, have a finger on the pulse of what is a very good team.

But he's like a lot of contending teams. They're going to have some decisions to make because the trade deadline is going to get on top of us very quickly. the taxi squad, the closed border. There are a lot of different factors that are coming to play. But Vegas has shown itself to be a team that's not afraid to make bold moves. And I would expect this would be nothing different, even though it is a shortened pandemic, you know, influence season. Do you agree, disagree?

Neither, really. But when it comes to trades, you know, it's interesting. I wonder if what's going on right now, not that it wasn't, you know, unforeseen, or not that it was unforeseen, but, you know, Pierloog-Dubois has to wait the 14 days, right? Right. To play for the Jets and until the Kane government is willing to amend that, and they may not. You know, and in the meantime, you know, Patrick Kleinie waiting for his U.S. work visa.

And who knows in the pandemic? I haven't called the U.S. government to ask this guy. I don't know if you have, but. Well, we're in regular contact. Well, I mean, maybe, you know, we used to take those things for granted. in normal times, but maybe the government's a little busy right now and that those visas aren't as smooth because we've heard a few players during camp having U.S. work visa issues, right? Yeah, Michael Granlin, was it not? Was it Michael Granlin one?

Yeah, there's been a few actually. And so I don't know. I guess what I'm getting at is I wonder if GMs are going to, you know, will it deter them from making more moves or, you know, fewer moves and they normally would because of all the red tape associated with all this. Well, and it was interesting because we were talking about Vegas in St. Louis, interesting lineup decision by Craig Barube, the head coach there and certainly lots of buzz on social media. Now, that, you know, sometimes that's a valid, that's a valid barometer of where things are at. Sometimes it's lots of times it's completely not.

But of course, Vince Dunn, not in the lineup there. in the final year of a contract. He'll cap hit of $1.875 million. He's going to be an RFA. That blues team has, you know, with the addition of Tori Krug, even with Alex Bertangelo moving out. I mean, that blue line has always been, it's chock full, right? It's a great team built from the back out.

And, you know, there's not, you know, we saw Justin Falk who came on at the beginning of last season. That only seems like 100 years ago. And it took a long time for Justin Falk to sort of find his way there. He signed an extension immediately after coming over from Carolina. But it's hard to get in that blues lineup. And now people are drawing a line from A to B. Maybe Vincent is on the market. But I want to just sort of broaden it, especially after the line A Dubois Roslovick activity last week. I mean, I think I imagined it would be very quiet once things got going because of the taxi squad and the border, as you point out, and all those things. Do you still think that this is, that teams are going to need to make hockey moves because

that's the nature of the game? Or what do you make of this? Yeah, we'll still see some moves. Now, to go back to Dunn, I'm trying to remember the start of your question now. You threw so much happening. It wasn't even a question. It was just a ramble. Yeah, just a ramble. It was a ramble. But your job is to respond to the ramble. You know that. It's not your first rodeo. Yeah. So Frank Sarvelli on on our insider trading segment. yesterday evening was the first to bring up the Dunn news. And what he's reporting is that the Blues are in talks with teams to move him.

What's interesting is I had heard Dunn's name out there during Cam in Trade Chatter, and then it kind of went quiet. So I think what Frank's reporting is that it's back on. And of course, Denny's made a healthy scratch last night. So put two and two together. We'll see where this goes. And, you know, that was a bit of a difficult. contract negotiation too between the blues and Newport sports on Vince Dunn. They got done late, right?

So we'll see where all this goes and where he fits. You know, so, you know, listen, I think it's difficult. Like, let's say, I don't know, let's just pick a team. Like, let's take Edmondon, for example. Okay. Tough loss in Winnipeg last night. They've had an up and down start to the season. Yeah. So Ken Holland says, Vince Dine can help us. Okay, but then he's not helping you for 14 days. Yeah,

no, I'm with you. I'm not saying he wouldn't do it, but it's just, it's just another layer right now. Like, you know, if the Jets,

let's say the Winnipeg Jets missed a playoffs by one point in the Canadian division, how do you think they're going to feel that they went about, they went, I think it's going to be six games without getting Dubois, and obviously six or seven games after trading lining. So this period where they don't have lining or Dubois, you know, how will the Jets fare, though they big, big comeback win in the third period against Eminson last night?

But I don't know, these are things I think about all the time. I was thinking that, you know, that for Montreal last week, for example, the Havs were one of a handful of teams who stayed in there pretty late on Dubois. The timing actually would have been decent for them because it had the trade for them Saturday. They didn't play again until Thursday. Their home openers tomorrow. I'll be working at for TSN in studio on the HABSs. TSN regional coverage. Good plug there.

Yep. And, but that would have been not bad for the HAVs because you're sort of like really just missing. It's half as damaging as what the Jets are feeling right now because they've got lots of games. So the whole thing is interesting to me. We'll see the Canadian government changes it. But given where the COVID numbers are, I don't know that it will. Yeah. Well, honestly, I think there's a very slim chance that changes.

I just, you're right. I mean, big picture, you know, even with the vaccines, it's hard to imagine. Especially, you know, as we approach the trade deadline, I just, it's hard to imagine anything happening prior to the trade deadline that would allow a much more free. freer movement of players back and forth. Well, obviously going from the United States into Canada. Don't see it happening. Yeah, but it's interesting that once Liny does get his work visa,

and I know that Jacket's ownership is giving him the red carpet treatment, they're flying him into Columbus on the owner's private jet. He'll just require a 48-hour quarantine, essentially, once he gets there. So a completely different story for Columbus and it is for Wadipig. Well, and your point is such a good one because for teams who might be acquiring, I mean, you talk about Montreal, Toronto, you know, Calgary, I think is probably going to be playoff team. I mean, it's tight. But the teams that might be obvious buyers at the trade deadline, if you're in that North Division, I really think you have to think secondly about just for your point exactly, to make an addition that won't be available to you for, and let's call it, six games or whatever it is, geez, that's, that's, That's a, you have to think twice about it. And I think it puts teams based in the States in a lot better position because you're right. Their circumstances are completely different. There's no, I guess the bottom line is not a level playing field for all 31 teams when it comes to this kind of dynamic. And I don't think there's any other way around it. Like what's the league going to do? Say, well, no, no one can acquire a player and everyone has to wait 14 days. I don't see that happening. No, on the other hand, whereas the Canadian teams are at disadvantage right now, trade-wise that way.

On the flip side, you know, so far, knock on wood, the Canadian division hasn't had any real COVID protocol situation that has affected lineups for the most part compared to, obviously, the Central Division. I wrote about that this week with some of the GMs involved, and now we've had the Vegas coaching staff. My point is it'll be interesting if that's almost the balancing act that some of the U.S. teams are hit a bit harder because of the different regional and COVID rules, right? It's interesting.

Yeah. Okay. One question before we go to our first guest, Ray Shiro, as mentioned. I got to tell you, maybe my favorite image of this past week was the very end of the Leaf's victory over Calgary where Jake Muzon, and I'm sure I just, I just love that moment. The puck's sort of lying loose there at the end of the game. he sees Matthew Kachuk in the corner. Puck ends up being, it wasn't a hard shot,

but it was sort of drifted towards Matthew Kuchuk at the end. And I was just thinking by the end of this entire North Division experiment, what is the angst factor with Matthew Kachuk and the rest of the Canadian team is going to be like? Because, I mean, Toronto and Calgary have, they basically have no history, right? Like they see each other twice a year. Who cares? Right, but already we're like, okay, this is, the fire is red hot. I don't know what you made of it.

I got to tell you, I love it. I just, I am glued to the North Division every single night. I'm more curious that once Ottawa and Calgary done playing all their games, the Kachuk brothers. Are we getting? I mean, you know, Mark and Dale Hunter had once sort of had to tussle a bit in the Battle of Quebec. and Keith and Wayne Primo fought once. Boy, their parents were mad at them.

Remember? I remember that. Yeah. I don't, I mean, I hope we don't see that happening with the Kachek brothers. Yeah, it's, listen, I'm living the Canadian division, obviously with the Havs work I do in TSN, but just watching all the Canadian teams every night. It's must see TV right now. And, you know, I tweeted this yesterday, and I didn't necessarily do it because I had an answer. I was curious to people's reaction, but I will tell you that it seems as though so far in a way.

Maybe it'll calm down. But the glare of having all Canadian matchups every night has really ratcheted up the intensity of the fan bases in Canada. Like people in Ottawa and Vancouver are losing their minds over the past week with the, you know, last couple of days for sense fans, angry at the usage of some of the young players. Canucks fans were ready to fire everyone before. they beat Ottawa the other night. Oilers fans have been up and down since the start of the year. There's just, I mean, even some of the narrative coming out of the Leafs win last night,

both from some of my colleagues in the media who covered the Leafs, but also from Leaf fans, is that they're an ugly Six and Two. I just think it's... Only Leaf fans can be complaining about being six and two. I got to tell you, that's so on type. That's on narrative for the Leaf fan. But I think it's... You know, it's indicative of everyone's watching type mentality, right?

It's Canadian teams against each other every night. Don't embarrass yourself, you know, the pride of the fan bases. It's, I think it's going to be wonderful all year. I don't know. I'm not in the position yet because so many people were quick to point out this should be the way it is forever. Let's circle back at the end of this season. And, you know, is there a chance that we'll feel that while it was unbelievable and remarkable and something to remember forever that that's enough that everyone's nerves can't take it

past this year I don't know it'll be interesting to examine that yeah well I and let's I mean you know it's never going to happen right I mean that that's it makes no sense it makes no sense well well it makes no sense to to I don't think it makes any sense obviously geographically to to keep the division together what what were there may be some impetus is trying to work on the NHL schedule to modify it so that there are more all-Canadian matchups within the context of the league getting back together. Right. I mean, that's possible.

Yeah, but you have 32 teams. You had seven in Canada. Like, I'm not much of a math guy, but I know that doesn't work. So, okay. All right. As promised, Ray Shiro. So, right? Honestly, it's so good to have you aboard.

And it's a treat. I can't wait to find out what you're up to. And actually, Pierre and I were just, so I'm going to jump right into it. But Pierre and I were talking about, typical, I'm going to get right into it. It'll only take me five minutes to get to the actual question. But we were talking about Vegas last night and Kelly McCrimmon having to come down from the GM suite or wherever he watches his games at Team Mobile to take on the coach. duties because of the COVID-19 protocols for the Vegas coaching staff. And Pierre and I were wondering aloud, in your history as an NHL executive, did you ever have to,

did you ever have to come down and get on the bench? Did you ever do any coaching for whatever reason? Not a chance. And never came close. And yeah, that's actually, I didn't see that. I heard about it last night. Actually, I was watching another game. And actually, my son texted me about Kelly being on the bench.

I'm like, oh, man, it can't be that good of news. And I just don't know. That might have been last minute. I'm not sure what kind of suit counting they had on or whatever, hopefully a good one. But he's got a lot more time behind the bench than I do. But I never really got close to getting down there. And this by my dad being a long time coach. I stopped at my kids were like 11.

That was about it. I was going to say, given your lineage. Given your lineage. Yeah, I was just going to say one thing here, though. the closest I kind of got like, anyway, it was after game 7 and 2009 in Detroit, and we were in the locker room with the Stanley Cup. I mean,

I mean, so it might have been an hour after the game and I just walked out of the locker and at the old Joe Lewis went to the visitor bench and there was no one in the building anymore and I was just behind a visitor bench on my own. We just won the cup and who comes walking out. No idea I was out there, but Dan Balsam. And Dan

had been hired about, you know, four months earlier or something like that. And I never really did a formal interview. We have been able to was coaching our farm team. And we're just looking at each other like, wow, we just went to the cop. That's kind of amazing. I said to him, I said, Dan, we never really get around to this in the interview process. But do you have like a level or anything, a coaching certificate of USA hockey?

And he goes, yeah. I'm like, oh, that's great. What level you got? He goes, I got a three. I'm like, Jesus. God, I got a four for God's sake. I need to say that. I don't want to feel like to make Kenny and Mike Babcock feel bad, but what the heck.

So anyway, that's as close. maybe I got. That's a great story. Well, Ray, listen, thanks for coming on. And, you know, it's been a bit now since we've seen you in the NHL spotlight, since you parted ways with the Devils. You know, tell our listeners what generally you've been up to since then. Well, it's kind of a real different just like with everybody, you know.

Obviously, it's, you know, it was a little over a year ago when with the Devils. and I think it was in Gersa Tom to Gerald's first this year is the LGM which I've had to read also the first the while I got fired

thanks Fidsey um it is like it's like okay ironically you know what this is also commander he's getting fired

so for Fancy but it's been such a weird your audience certainly with a global pandemic but you're trying to stay safe so different than it would for everybody.

That's where it's been for a number of years now, which is fantastic to be so then they try to stay as safe as possible, but in terms of what we're up to, I mean, I remember the great part of the summer was when there was six, seven hockey games

on at the time, out of the bubbles, and now certainly, you know, last night and tonight, and, you know, just having, being able to watch hockey, it's fantastic. And so that's, you know, keeping up with that and things, but it's so much different than it would be in a usual year, certainly. And hopefully everybody has to be staying healthy and being smart about things, at least here in Boston.

And when we come out of this thing, it's nice to see the game back on. It's certainly nice to have conversations like this and hear you guys go back and forth as to what's going on last night and what the fan bases are saying and themes that won last night, fans are still mad. And I'm like, man, I miss that a lot. The juice, as they say, right? The juice. Yes, exactly. Well, Ray, it's funny, I was so, I knew that we were going to chat with you today. And I was thinking, you know, Pierre and I, you know, we've been talking a lot about what happened with Columbus and Winnipeg. And obviously you've known Kevin Shevoldeufth, the GM in Winnipeg for years.

But you also worked with Yarmalkechelan, the GM in Columbus, so you have a long connection there. And I'm wondering, when you see something like that happens, like are you sort of living it because you understand the dynamic of what jams go through if a player you know needs to be moved or wants to be moved like do you view those kinds of things differently or i assume you do than a normal fan and maybe what's that you know what's that like for you to watch especially you know you've known those guys for a long time and knowing how important that kind of deal is for both their franchises yeah that's i mean it's that deal very often and i've known Kevin a long time, but also I've known Yarmal a lot longer, and I was actually, I've known Yarmoufraiser

since 1987, and actually became out of Clarkson University, believe it or not, and known him a long time. But just from the outside, I think, yeah, but a little different, because it happened pretty quick, obviously, and, you know, the buildup to the trade and, you know, Dubot's final shift, a lot was made of that, but just knowing, and having, I was forced to work with Amrello for, for month where you went to Toronto and but the things we know Lou says makes a lot of sense and they always say that listen when I make a trade or a signing or whatever decision he makes no one has the information we can all simulate and you know we can all let it be a task at least try to find out what there's a second along behind the scenes whether it's from the ownership

or whether it's from the locker room or whether it's from the coach then the GM has to deal with and that's the big part of being a general manager is managing those situations. And I think, you know, Kevin and made good trades out of, you know, you don't really have that to young players like that. And I think it hopefully will be good for both. And don't forget, you know, Roslick is a good player too, young player and a new opportunity for him.

But I just, you know, you look at that and it's a lot of pressure to be under and, you know, you're under the microscope. And but I think it's, when I was actually, when I was an auto way back in the day, is, assistant Jim and it was in 95. We drafted Brian Barrett first overall when Wade Redden was taken by and was right behind him. And a year later, they were back in junior and that's, you know, Paragochi made a real good trade for Ottawa trading.

Brian, you know, wasn't keen on when we plain in Ottawa or Canada, I think it was. But that was a good trade for both. You know, you don't see that very often. So, you know, Redden was straighted from the Allenders to Ottawa and we went on a long career with the senators and did fantastic. And certainly with Brian, the flip like that of young players, you don't see it often, but it should be, you know, a good fit in both players, you know, wanted that to happen. And, you know, they wish for it, so we'll see what happens.

And hopefully it's a good story. And, you know, for both Winnipeg and for Columbus, and, you know, they're both good hockey teams. And I credit the both GMs to being proactive and get this thing done and where else it drags on. And it was going to be fair for anybody. Well, and over the years, Ray, you've been pretty. proactive not necessarily when players are asking for trades but I think of a couple of instances one is more recent one is longer ago where you know you're not going to be able to sign the player at Taylor Hall last year was an example where you want you

wanted to get ahead of that and I remember Jordan Stahl when you had George Stoll in Pittsburgh and you know you tried to sign up to an extension correct me from getting all this wrong but then when you realize it wasn't going to happen you did not waste time you you That was on the draft, right, where you got that cooking with Jim Rutherford in Carolina. Yeah, it was kind of, I mean, it was actually Jimmy Rutherford was a GM in Carolina at the time of the GM in Pittsburgh. And, you know, we had offered Jordan a 10-year extension to stay. And, you know, we were up front with him and vice versa.

So was Jordan. But, you know, he still had a year left. And Jordan never asked for a trade at all. But we just, and Jimmy Rutherford was really transparent and above board. and he just said, you know, just a heads up. In a year from now, we're going to come after him hard, and he was going to be a group two, I believe her. I'm like, yeah, well, he didn't have no trader like that,

but everybody kind of speculated, you know, there's only so many stalls. A lot of stalls of the game, but it's either going to be, you know, Carolina or Rangers, right? So with Mark or with Eric, you know, so, yeah, I'm talking to Glenn Sander. I got lots of, come on a lot of interest here. He goes, bullshit. I'm like, yeah, there's a couple.

But, you know, so that's, I mean, in every situation is a bit different. And, you know, with deals like this and those deals that we're talking about, you know, it's a lot, you know, the focus is on the manager, but let's be honest, in deals like this, it's your, got your ownership involved, certainly in, you know, direction of your franchise. And, you know, that was a decision that, you know,

was made in Pittsburgh and, you know, tried to get ahead of it. And certainly with the Taylor Hall thing, I mean, it was a little bit different where Taylor was going to be unrestricted where Jordan wasn't. And Taylor never asked for a trade either. and obviously, you know, a lot of transparent conversation with Taylor. And, you know, just the way the team never played well enough, obviously, near the beginning of the year.

Or, you know, obviously, I got let go in January and John and John Hines in December. But, you know, we never got to the point. I think Taylor played 30 games for the Devils last year, maybe at six goals or something like that. And the team never got close to Bob. We're going to make a run for the playoffs here. But, you know, make it a hard decision. Should we, you know, keep them? You know, I don't think there's a night, I think it was pretty apparent that he was probably going to go to test free agency anyway no matter where.

But that was a different situation. And, you know, could you get more at the deadline? Well, I don't, listen, I don't know what people are off in the deadline, let alone do I know the guy's healthy at the deadline either. So if you have the deal you think is right, there's all a template for those type of deals. And you know, that's a good time also to talk to a lot of different teams of the league. and you find out the value of your players. And that's the best way. And I always said that about your own players and your team,

are they any good? Well, we might think they're good, but the good ones are the ones that GMs ask for them from other teams. So that's no, and that's, we find a lot about that. And certainly even a month later when I got let go, that hopefully that paid off with Fitsy

and a lot of groundwork that he was involved with and future deals at the deadline for him. But it's, those are big deals with those guys made and makes it interesting. especially in the 56-game season, I mean. This keeps happening, though. Like, there's like, you know, those Trade Day, you know, TV shows. It's kind of tough, so.

But it's good. I mean, it's good for both markets, hopefully, and they're both good young players. Yeah. I'm curious, Ray, what it's like for you. You mentioned you were watching a game last night. And we've had, you know, when you talk to a coach who's, who is, you know, waiting for another opportunity to open, they view the game in a certain way. and maybe they're making notes and putting together some sort of, you know,

it's a game plan or whatever it is that the coach might do, you know, when they get a chance to get back in, you know, to walk back into a coaching job. Do you watch the game differently as an executive? Are you making notes? Do you have a book? Like, what, how is it, how is it for you when you sit down to watch games? Or can you step right back and just watch it as a guy who loves the game of hockey? I think it's maybe the last.

latter. And to be honest, with I think with coaching, talking a lot of different coaches, certainly when they even, you know, certainly even when they're coaching presently coaching the league or when they're out, coaches definitely watch a game whether differently than I would think a manager. I mean, there are systems and what the other team I'm like, as a manager, I find me and myself, you know, knowing the players and I'm not so much into a system and things like that. And, you know, it's interesting if you see some team, you know, a power play that's kind of off the charts or this or okay you want to see maybe what they're doing and what might become of that but i think from a manager standpoint i always enjoy just i like

watching the games and i don't um you know the NHL and that's you know being up to speed on that there's some new players in league this year that weren't last year and but there's so many games going on now that you certainly get familiar with them and uh somewhat you're familiar from from the draft or the draft year and no but i think you know even when i watch games out i'm enjoying the game and I like seeing some of the new players, and I love seeing some of the players that get better, you know, and, you know, that's what we always have, when you're managing always for my coaches or your scouts,

like, players get better, you know, well, that player for that team is no good or that. Well, that was last year, but this year he's getting better or, and guys get worse, but it's always good to keep the league like that for myself. And, you know, seeing even when the, you know, I do bought potential trade for, okay, what teams might make sense?

And if that team, why would they want it? And you play manager for the other team. Okay, how does that set them up? And certainly then you look at reagency years that they might get taken up and so forth. I enjoy watching the game that way. And certainly I would think different than the coach watches it. Ray, I don't know if we'll see any openings during the season here

with the pandemic and the financials and the situations of all the owners are in. But eventually there will be some. And I always say it's a, it's kind of an awkward spot for when guys are not in a job to be in because you support the other guys so much as a community that you're not wishing anyone to lose their job. But there will be openings and you'll want to throw your hat in there, I presume. And I'm curious, you know, when that process happens at some point, you know, if you can share with us, you know, what you're going to, you know,

part of the vision here in terms of, you know, selling yourself again to an owner and, you know, You know, the game keeps evolving, you know, and the marrying of data with I-test and all these things that we talk about all the time now and running a team. But how do you stand and all that right now? I mean, I think in terms of, you know, I was an assistant gym for 13 years. And, you know, I think it was the NHL gym for 13 years, something like that. And honestly, my 13 years in the assistant gym, I never worked a day to be a general manager. I was passionate about being in the game of hockey. I'm passionate about helping the team I was with Ottawa in Nashville and as an assistant GM and then helping my manager.

And that is my, that's the same thing now. Like, I'm, you know, in terms of where I don't know if that an opportunity may or may not come around. And I know it's the one thing, you have to be passionate about it. You have to, for the right reasons. And, of course, everything evolves. Even the last time I was out and I was real happy, you know, to see the guy worked with in New Jersey, Sunny Maddo, get an opportunity. be in Florida and study's a real big guy. He was really good to work with

and he was hired before I got there by Lou Lamrello and Josh Harrison, David Blitzer. But again, everybody has that and it is. And it's, you know, it's great, you know, let's talk of Lee Stentanyak, they're very happy for Lee, obviously, his role of Arizona. I think that's, you know, we had that in Jersey my last year, which is

important and, you know, there's so much information, okay, how do you break it down? Especially getting that information to your coaching staff on a back of back, you know, and now it's good be, I think it's more it's versus even this year because usually you're playing, let's say, Buffalo on a Friday night at home and you're flying after the game, you know, to Chicago, play Chicago. Okay, the data is, all of that is different for the next game and that team you're playing on Saturday. They played Friday night against somebody

too, so you have that information. But now all of a sudden, you've got teams that are like the baseball style scheduling. It's fantastic that you can really use that data. You know, you're playing these guys back to back. It's almost like a playoff series. And that is really where it comes to coaching, you know, the adjustments to the next game. And, you know, the lineup, depending what the lineup is based on injuries and certainly COVID. But I think that's interesting. Let's see how that that is applied from, you know, from your analytic group to your coaching staff and how that's going to be utilized, especially the player usage. And, you know, interesting, of course, the puck tracking kind of got off the ground and crashed.

Oops. Hopefully that'll, that'll, that's a shot. soccer. Anyway, still waiting for that. But no, I think with anything it's, it's, it is the, you know, the data, it's so different. I mean, we're talking analytics, marrying it to obviously decisions made in from either a manager or a coaching staff and or a lineup even. But at the same time, we're also talking sports science and how that marriage is and all those things. I mean, you know, different in, you know, New Jersey, a lot of different things we did with sports science. I think might have the one or the only two of the, you know, hired Mike HADAR,

a long-time strength coach for the Penguins and Red Wings and so forth, but hired him as kind of the strength development guy. So in terms of once, you know, the guys that are playing in the HL in a normal year, yeah, you've got your strength coaches that, your sport science, but HL's not going on. And even a normal year, you draft your college players, they go back, you know, they go to college or your European guys after training camp, they go back to Europe. Well, okay, you kind of lose touch with them.

Of course, you have your player development guys. But in terms of, hey, over the course of year, is the guy getting stronger or working on some of the imbalances you could have? Well, that is like where my theater came in. And I think that's fantastic and a step in the right direction. It's still different than, you know, got back in, once it's too long ago, back in 07-08, I mean, a goalie development coach, right?

Oh, everybody's got it. And everybody's got, you know, two of everything. three of everything. I think that's, you know, keeping up. And certainly what you don't want to have is too much information. There's too many people. Like, you can, there's this thing that been too many people, in my opinion. Um, but again, it's, you know, I think that's, you know, talk about evolving. I mean, it used to be, you know, six teams and 12 teams and 16 teams and 21, and now we're going to be up to 32. Everything evolves and there's, you take a look around just that the staff directories of teams. I mean, over the last 10 years, I mean, so many jobs, which is

incredible, you know, I've been created for within hockey, and I think that's amazing. And I think, you know, continue along that, and I love to see, you know, certainly with a number of women that have been hired, and certainly you'll see a lot more of that, too. But, you know, certainly even with, you know, I think it was last year, I think some of the Mike Greer, I mean, Mike Greer was the only black assistant coach on the bench last year, and he was with the Devils. And I didn't even know that. Oh, really?

I didn't even know. Like, okay, great. I think Mike Greer is fantastic. And, you know, I think to see the game evolve like that, it's no different than deep up with that. But again, getting it in terms of getting back and that, see it again, that's certainly not my decision. You know, that's certainly at an owner's level. And if not, then at some point, maybe you'd be back in and, you know, whether it's advising a team or do whatever, because you have something to get back.

And it all goes back to what I said is you're passionate about the game. You're passionate about trying to help people and really not about. me more an ego or so oh you have to be a joint i never worked to be i never worked the day to be a gm and um and i ended up doing it for 13 years and you know it's you know that that's the right you guys are in the game for obviously you're passionate about hockey and it's no different from my standpoint and you know um i think that's the greatest thing just to be involved like that is fun and we'll see what the future holds well ray it's you can always uh you quench your hockey thirst by coming and joining Pierre and I, any time you want.

The door is always open here. Hold on. Before we go, though, I forgot to spray this. So I have to, since we have Shane Donan on the podcast today as well, I have to ask you. I mean, and sure enough time has passed because he's retired now. Did you ever try to trade for him? Shane Donne? I don't know if I ever tried to trade for him because it was one of those things.

And I think it's one of those things that anybody tried to trade for Rosby or something. I don't know. I mean, Shane Don't. I don't know I ever had any conversation with a Donnelly at the time. And he'll either maybe 10 years as GM. But I don't want anything when he was coming up on free agency. Absolutely. We were interested in sign him as a free agent.

And I still remember it was really the first time dealing with who was his agent at the time. Terry Bross, I believe his name was. And Terry was more of a baseball guy. But if you recall, I didn't know what to say. I was with the Penguins. And I didn't know what to tell Mario, like, hey, we have a chance, don't have a chance. What did the agent say? Well, the agent said there's mutual interest, but he said that 26 other teams.

So I'm not sure where he's there. But you remember, you can tell Shane that like there's mutual interest. Okay, great. Well, mutual interest. He said that, I mean, it was like, you know, it's kind of like, Berkey would say back of the day before salary cap, all the players, like a parakeet. No cap, no cap. No cap.

Yeah, this guy, mutual interest, mutual interest. Okay. Well, I mean, you know, the great news, if you're about it. But the great news, Shane and I'm staying in Arizona, and that should be. As we chatted about right before we came on, I mean, I'm so thrilled, number one, for Shane, back to the coyotes, but I'm thrilled for coyotes and their fans.

I mean, honestly, what's more natural than that? And then hopefully, but that's a great step in the right direction, and I'm very happy for him. And, you know, anyway, so, yeah, I never tried to trade for him, but the signing, oh, we had a chance. All right, good to know. So they're saying there's a chance. All right, anytime, guys.

You guys take care. Thanks for having me on. Ray, that was terrific. Great to have you, Ray. Yeah, appreciate it a lot. Pleasure, guys. All right, my friend. I got to tip my hat to you.

That was great to have Ray on. That was your doing. So good on you, my friend. And great to catch up with him. And just, it will be, you sort of alluded to it near the end. It will be interesting to see, you know, what happens next for Ray Shiro. I mean, I built a Stanley Cup champion in Pittsburgh, went to back-to-back cups in 2008 and 09. And I think, you know, did a nice job in laying the groundwork in New Jersey.

And interesting, of course, his, you know, protege, a good friend Tom Fitzgerald, I think continues to do really good work for a young and emerging Devils team. And it's going to be interesting. Honestly, I imagine Ray Sherrill is going to be a top executive somewhere. sooner than later. Maybe not next summer, but I think it's going to happen. Yeah, and we'll see. Who knows if I'm kind of interested in how the league is evolving as far as splitting up duties in front offices. And, you know, like, will he also maybe have offers as president of hockey ops and have a younger GM work for him?

I don't know. It would be interesting to see how the game continues to evolve that way because Ray is bang on. If you look at the number of jobs now listed in a front office. It's true. I remember talking to David Poyle about his first job as GM in, was it Atlanta, I think? Or no, he was the, sorry, Cliff Fletcher was the GM in Atlanta, right? And David Poil worked for Cliff.

Yeah, and then it was like, that was it. It was the two of them. And over the decades. So, yeah, I think Ray Shiro has so much to offer. And we'll see when that time comes. Like I said, I don't know if during a pandemic we'll see a lot of hirings and firings at that level. I think a lot of it will wait until the offseason, but I could be wrong.

And this is a great segue because I can't wait to talk to Shane Done and ask him about how close he came to signing with the Pittsburgh Penguins as a free agent or maybe not at all. But anyway, it's going to be great to catch up with Shane Dome. So that's next on the agenda for you and I. All right, my friend. promised. We are now joined by Shane Don't. And Shane, I'm reading off my hand prepared notes, the new chief hockey development officer of the Arizona Coyotes. And I'm going to tell you, that is one heck of an impressive title. I'm not sure exactly what it means. So what's your new gig?

What's your new gig with, of course, your old team, the Arizona Coyotes. What's that about? You know what? It gives me the opportunity to kind of work on both sides. I can work on the business side and do stuff with corporate and help out with that as I've been in the valley and around the Phoenix for a long time. And yet at the same time, I came straight from the hockey ops over at the league. And so I have the ability to help out in the hockey ops. So it's kind of working on both sides and hopefully being helpful to whoever needs me. So it's kind of a utility help out everywhere kind of thing, if that makes sense. Well, that would explain the 19 words in your title, I guess.

They have to cover off all the different departments. And you get back to the only NHL team that you knew, well, Winnipeg slash Arizona, after a few years working with the league. And in fact, the last time I was on the road pre-pandemic was at the GM meetings in Boko Rattan where you had attended a number of meetings the last couple of years, both border governors and GMs. What was that period like for? you in terms of, you know, learning and, you know, different sides of the business when you got

to see the insides of those meetings. I'm kind of jealous because I'm the guy standing outside waiting impatiently for everyone to walk out, but what's it like to be on the inside for a couple years? You know what? It was, it was something that I really enjoyed. It's fascinating to see how each individual club operates a little bit differently, and yet at the same time, how similar or they all are. And as for me, to be part of the hockey ops department with the league, that's just a great group of guys. Obviously, Coley and Murph and Kinger and Roddy,

those guys are the guys that I probably spent the most time with. And to be able to work with those guys and kind of see the way they interact with the clubs and see the interaction with the clubs with hockey ops was really probably the most informative part of what I got to do. And at the same time, exciting too. Because like you said, it's fun to be in that room and to be listening to see how decisions are made and who are the major influencers and a lot of those decisions. Shane, I think a lot of people just assume, well, this is how it should be.

And you should be with the Arizona Coyotes. I mean, it just seems like such a natural fit. But I wonder from your perspective whether, you know, my understanding is that there were opportunities for you to go to other NHL clubs, to take on roles, maybe with a new. individual club that wasn't the Arizona Coyotes. And I wonder when it came down to it, what was so important to you or what drew you back to this new role for you? Yeah, the, probably the

biggest thing was this is, I'd kind of always made it my plan and goal was to kind of work for the Coyotes when I was done. And it was getting different in the idea that maybe that wasn't what was going to happen, but when it did come up, that I was pretty excited for the opportunity to do it. And with some of the other clubs,

it was, you start to realize that it's really all about relationships. Like, it's about good people and relationships and getting the opportunity to work with good people. And that was probably the most exciting thing about talking to the other organizations is how many good people there are working in the league and the ones that are how you want to work with those guys and be around those guys. And so to come here and have an opportunity to work with the coyotes,

that was important to me. Well, Shane, be careful because Joe Sackick went in as a president in Colorado and came out of it as a GM. So just be careful what kind of path you're going down there. Man, he's done a terrible job as a GM. Oh, that team has no chance. That team has no chance. In all seriousness, though, I mean,

it's got to be so exciting for you to. to see where this is going to lead. And I got to ask you about this. And I wonder how many times back to where you were captain of the team, you and I stood in the dressing room in Arizona upon my few visits out there and had this conversation. But I think I've lost count. The rink.

Yeah. How important is it for this franchise to eventually figure that out, do you think? Well, it is. And it's funny because the other day we were doing the numbers. just talking about different things. And we've actually been in Glendale longer than we've been, than we were in Winnipeg. Not in Arizona, just Glendale itself, which is crazy.

I would never, ever thought that. So there is a large number of people that have started to view Glendale as really home. And our fan base has grown up around here. Now, you also recognize that the Valley itself has some other, opportunities that could be really nice for the club as well. So here is home. And hypothetically, I mean, you decide that you're moving the team to another location here in the valley. It's probably four years away, five years away. And you're now looking at, you know, 25, 26, or 21, 22 years in this building. So we've been here a while. We love the building and

really like the situation here, but it, uh, the valley, there's obviously lots of opportunities everywhere. Jane, it's, and I don't know what it was like for you watching from afar, even though this was really your home, but I mean, there've been, there've been some missteps along the ways for this organization. I mean, it, it hasn't been a, I love, I love this organization and yes, there has been some missteps. Well, and I wonder, you know, when your new role and, and, and, and, and, And especially knowing the community as well as you do. I mean, what are some of the important, what are the priorities in terms of, I don't even know if it's reconnecting with the fan base or making sure that you appeal to

as broad a cross section of that fan base in the valley. I mean, it's one thing to just say, well, if you, you know, let's build a new arena and that will solve all our problems. I'm not sure it's that simple. If you build it, they will come, right? If you build it, they will come. What are the priorities for you? Yeah, you know what?

This is going to sound so simple, and yet I've decided that it's the more, it's probably the one thing I learned about, and what I said more than anything, is that good people matter and people matter. Those two things. If you can get good people in your organization that have the idea that it's not about them,

that it's about the organization, and it's about the whole more than it is the individual, that you're going to have success. And then the people that you represent and the people that are your fans, they matter. And for me personally, that seems to be so simple and yet it seems harder than to execute that kind of philosophy than it is to say it.

But those two things are the most important for me personally. And we do need to make sure that we reconnect and stay connected with our fans that are here in the Valley. And to be honest, I will defend our fans here in the Valley because if you had done to the fans of any other city pretty much in the NHL, what we've done to the coyotes fans over the last 25 years, it would be interesting to see how many would be still. hanging in there. And for our fans to still be hanging in there with us, speaks volumes to the amount of passion and dedication they have to the group because there's been a lot of times where it probably hasn't been that easy to be a coyotes fan. But that's, we're working on that. Yeah, I remember covering that 2012 Western Conference final and the building was absolutely

hopping for that playoff run chain. It just told you that it's there. If you, you know, you give them that kind of situation and with consistency. But I should mention, we had Ray Shiro on earlier in the podcast. And I asked Ray if he had ever tried to acquire you. And he said he never tried to trade for you because, of course, no one thought he would ever be available when you were captain of the coyotes. But he did reveal that he was one of the many teams late in your career that when you became a UFA approached. he approached your lawyer at the time when you changed agents. I forget the gentleman's name that represented you at the end,

but I think he was a baseball agent. But he did say that he was GM of the Penguins at the time, and he did check in on Chain Dome, but of course you stayed loyal right to the end there with the Cioties. Yeah, you have an unbelievable memory. That is impressive because, yeah, it was. Terry Ross was a, was a baseball, Oh, which is hilarious that you would remember that.

But yeah. And we did. We talked quite a bit about, I talked with them, and it was one of those things that, I mean, Ray is such a, he's a gentleman. And yet, ultimate, the competitor and intense and all those things that you want, too, at the same time of being so kind. And we talked, and it was one of those things that you never, I've made it a personal, goal not to ever regret any of my decisions that I made because you never know how anything would ever turn out. But every now and again, you might let it play out in your mind a little bit to see and

that would have been fun, but it never ended up happening. And if I could jump in, Scott, it just as a PS on that, because I think you, you know, your loyalty to the coyotes, it was interesting. One of your contemporaries and the guy that you know very well in Jerome McGimler, he kind went the other way. And again, I'm not criticizing Jerome at all. Everyone wants to win a cup. And he kind of chased it at the end. You know, and Pittsburgh, Boston, L.A. at the end. And, you know, you wanted so bad for Jerome to win that cup. But I wonder what kind of impact that had on you because of how you guys know each other. It just seems to me like you made the conscious decision.

I don't want to do that, basically. Yeah. And that was, we talked about, him and I both have talked about it a little bit. And I think I was jealous of him getting the opportunity to see what the other organizations were like. And he raves about each one of them and the differences and he's so glad he did it. And then I think at times he's a little bit of me and the fact that I stayed with one. And so I think it's funny how you kind of always maybe want what the other has a little bit. And you have to be. But I saw what he did.

And I thought that was so cool for him to get the opportunity to obviously play with Sid and then go to Boston and be part of an original six and then play in L.A. or Colorado and do what he's – I – like, it was just amazing to see the type of player that he was and how it translated for each one of those in those different organizations where I was kind of at the end probably a little bit more in a situation that wasn't quite – We weren't exactly contending at that point. Shane, I got to tell you, the one thing I'm really curious about for you is not only are you, you're back in the NHL as an executive with the coyotes, but you are the father of a young man who is eligible for the 21 draft.

And your son, Josh, is off to a great start with the Chicago Steel. Actually, Ray brought that up himself. He must be keeping tabs on the Don clan. And if I understand that Josh is already committed to play D1 hockey back home at Arizona State University. And I wonder what that process has been like for you, you know, having gone through all that you did in your career. Are you, how hands on are you with Josh and these kinds of decisions and what happens and thinking about the draft in a possible NHL career? What's that been like for you to be the dad of a possible future NHLer? well nothing makes me happier than probably talking about Josh because he is as as he's grown he's become he is an

unbelievable young man and regardless of what he does is hockey but he's in and now when as he started to have a little bit of success in the ush-h-l his draft year was last year and he didn't get drafted last year and he didn't play very much they had like a historically good team and he didn't get to And now this year he's getting to play quite a bit more. And he's having a lot of success in the last, he's having a lot of success this year, which is so, I'm so happy and excited for him.

And it was weird for, so I own a junior team in the, in the Western hockey league in the Camloops Blazers. And it's amazing on how, you know, I tried to convince him maybe that he should come to Camloops and play in Camloomoo. I figured it as much. That was kind of,

that would have been really cool. and yet at the same time I've been very cognizant of the idea that he has to make his own path and do as make his own decisions and going to Camloops probably was going to put a little bit of undue pressure on the fact that he that I played there and we'd had so much success as a team there and then obviously as I was being in part of the ownership group there that just made it maybe a little bit awkward And then he made his own decision with ASU. We had some opportunities to talk to some other organizations and some other universities and colleges. And I was actually on the funny story is I was on the floor at the draft in Vancouver. So I was probably there with you guys. And I was walking across the floor and someone walked up to me and said,

hey, congratulations on Josh. I actually didn't know that he had actually committed until that moment because we talked about it, but I'd left it alone for him to make his decision, and I didn't want to be. And my wife was very adamant about the idea that, hey, this is his, this isn't your path. We can give him advice, but he's got to make his own decisions. And he was really excited about the opportunity to play for ASU. And he wanted to do that. and they'd obviously had some success in the last few years,

and he was excited to be part of that. Well, Shane, I have to tell you, I hope you don't take this the wrong way. I don't like your chance of being the next TSN Insider if you can't break your own sons. Isn't that the truth? No kidding. I just totally ruined my reporting

and my inside scoop ability. He did it all on his own. That's great. That's great. Him sort of coming home to to play at ASU. And that whole D1 story with ASU is, it's a great story in and of itself. And, you know, Austin Lemieux was there for a time. It's so fascinating.

But it also strikes me that that's part of maybe the part of the hockey culture in the state of Arizona that people don't understand that there is, there is a really vibrant hockey network there. And you would have grown up with that and seen jobs. Josh grew up within that. Do you think that's fair? And maybe what do you think that'll be like for you to watch him play D1 hockey basically in your backyard? Yeah, that's huge. Yeah.

And An awesome of him he was here. And then actually for next year, the talk is that if Josh was to make the team next year, it'd be Scotty Needamire's boy and Josh are going to be there together. So it'll be, they've done a good job of, bringing in the sons of players in the past. Wish that I could throw myself in the same group as those two, but I'm not quite in that group. But to be able to bring that group in is pretty cool.

And the state and hockey here has grown so much. And obviously, the coyotes are the driving force behind that. Whenever the NHL comes to a city, You see that city's hockey market grow exponentially. And I'm excited to see what happens in Vegas as it's already started and what's going to happen in Seattle. And you start to have players like Austin Matthews come out of a state that would probably, he probably wouldn't have played hockey if the coyotes hadn't been here.

And now you see the influence that they can have on the NHL as a whole. It's exciting. And that gives the kids here in the valley having someone like Austin. so much more confidence and credibility. It's that amazing dynamic of when you really see somebody and you believe that you can do something because you've seen someone else do it, that it makes it that much easier.

And Austin has opened the door and given that true belief to a lot of boys here in the Valley that think they can play in the NHL. I don't know if any of them are going to do what Austin's doing, but they're at least got the opportunity to play in the NHL. Well, you know, Austin Matthews is USA, July 1st, 2024. Is he?

Mr. Coyotes. I'm just going to throw that out there. Could you imagine? We just have all of Leaf Nation all over us right now. But feel free to comment on that, Shane. Yeah, yeah, that's okay. That's okay. I'm a big, big fan of Austin Matthews.

Well, and actually, I mean, you spent some time on the ice with Austin, right? I mean, the stories of your workouts with Austin and Connor McDavid are kind of legendary. And I wonder, you know, what that, what those kinds of experiences are like. And again, especially knowing that Austin Matthews comes, you know, basically, and I think you're absolutely right. I mean, maybe he doesn't play the sport if it's not for the coyotes being in the community. I wonder what it's been like to, you know, sort of watch him become the, you know, the elite player that he's become.

Yeah, it's absolutely amazing. And the way it's, so I, the cool part is, and I've told. the store a few times is Keith Kachuk, so Maddie Kachuk and him are really good friends and Keith and Maddie were in, I think, Ann Arbor at the national program and Austin broke his leg really bad

at the national program and he was going to miss the rest of the year and Keith reached out to me at the time and was like, hey, there was a kid from Arizona would you mind talking to him? And I blew my ACL out really bad and I missed nine months when I was 17 as well. And so I kind of reached out to talk to him. And when he called me and told me his name, I'd met Austin before. And when

we talked on the phone, he'd said, we've met around the ice stand or at different things. And so we got talking away. And Keith said his name was Austin Matthews. And we had, we had talk for about 45 minutes. And then the following summer, he came and skated with us at the, as an NHL group. We have, I usually run as practices for the guys as a captain at the time. And I do kind of captain skate and any of the kids that were good enough to really maybe look like they had an opportunity to play in the league would get a chance to come skate with us and he came over and started talking to me and I was like for whatever reason I was thinking this his first name was Matthew and so everyone introduced him as Austin and I'm like oh okay and as we got talk and I realized oh my goodness

this is a kid that I talked to on the phone for 45 minutes we had a good so then it kind of dawned on me I was like oh I'll see how good he is he scored four guys and he scored four goals that game. We, we, in the like scrimmage we had. I'm like, holy man, this kid's unbelievable. And he was only 17 at the time. It was my first real eye-opening experience of seeing what he could do. And it was against NHL guys. And we were, we had fun. And it was cool just to, the, the cool part about hockey here in the valley is that it's a really tight, small knit group. And if you play hockey, you've probably hung around with NHL players because it's such a, you're not. small group, especially early on as we were growing, we were all together because there wasn't

that many rinks where if you're in Canada and you go to a rink, there's, you know, 25, 30 rinks in a small little area, the chances of running into an NHL guy because he's probably at an NHL rink are really remote. But here, I could might be at Oceanside, I might be at the ice stand, I might be at Arcadia, you just run into NHL players. And that developed a bond, I think, amongst the NHL players with the local minor hockey players that was really unique. We had Pat Brissan on last month in the podcast, obviously talking about his son Brendan. Yeah. You know, just the exponential growth of minor hockey in California and, you know, the Kings program,

the ducks, the sharks, northern California, coyotes. And like you said, who knows what will happen now with Vegas. It's really amazing to think about it. And, man, when they won, my son was playing. It was funny when they won in, what year did they win their first, the first one was it, 2011, I think was their first one or 12? For the Kings 12, yeah. Yeah, actually they beat us, never mind. Sorry, that's kind of embarrassing.

I wasn't going to mention the end of that game, by the way, but. I don't even remember that. I don't remember that at all, Pierre. So you can be mentioned that all you want. I don't remember anything from that. I've blocked all that out. I apologize to everyone. I've had to apologize to, too, for the.

that. Yeah. But it was crazy to see. So my son was playing for Team California. It's a Summer League kind of they had, well, it was actually Southwest U.S. But then since they were all from pretty much California, they called the Team California. My son was the only one from Arizona on the team. But to be in L.A.

As that was kind of for the last bit of the finals, he started playing in May. And then, so I went and followed them around for a little bit in L.A. To see the minor hockey and the excitement of what was going on in L.A. was absolutely incredible. And that's what happens when you have an organization and you win and you do, and they did everything right. And they had so much success there as they were winning over and over again. So I agree. It's incredible to see what's going to happen in the next little bit.

Shane, we're going to let you go. And it's been such a treat to hang out and really pleased for you to have, So major way back home hockey wise back to the Arizona Coyotes and wish you all the best with that new role. And of course, with your son and what happens with him moving forward. But yeah, here's here's the hoping that we can show up together in a rink somewhere down the road in person as opposed to doing it remotely. But no kidding. Great to hang out. But thank you for taking the time with us today.

Well, thank you guys. Really appreciate you having me on. it's always cool to sit and talk with you too. You guys influence so much of our sport, and it's so important, and you guys do a good job of that. And we're lucky because it's not always a positive influence that comes out, but you guys seem to always be able to do that. So thank you guys.

Too kind. Thanks, Shane. Awesome. Thank you. All right. See you guys. It's great to catch up with Shane. And I didn't bring this up, but they could have used them on the ice the last couple of games. They haven't scored now. I think they've been shut out toys and row, but it's, I mean, it's going to be fascinating to see how things turn out there.

I mean, it just, it is, it is a struggle, but it's, you know, I think it's still clear that they need to find a place long term to play somewhere, whether it's downtown Phoenix or out in Scottsdale or Tampa or whatever. But listen, I think Shane's right. The more good, smart hockey people you have and people who are connected to that community, I think is. critical and this is where he belongs. So maybe I, that's just my gut. He belongs. Yeah, he's the face of that franchise. And it was a crummy way that his playing career ended there.

We won't get into it. But it was unfortunate. And so to have him back there makes things right. That's for sure. And we, you know, obviously I was joking about us and Matthews on July 1st, 2024, Scotty. I'm sure Austin Matthews will be a leaf for life. Everyone calm down.

But he is from Scottsdale. Good point. All right. My friend, here we go. Getting near the end of this edition of Two-Man Advantage, the athletic hockey show. A couple of questions from our loyal listeners, Twitter followers. And I like that. This is a question that comes from Matthew Jex, J-E-X.

That's at M-Jex 19. Yeah, I didn't, okay, here we go. And this is a great question. I'm curious to see your response, Pierre. Which team's early struggles are most likely to reverse themselves? I think that's a great question. I wish I'd asked that to you. I would have taken full credit for that.

But which team off to a slow start that you think still, you know, there's enough runway for them to reverse the trend? Yeah. I think Vancouver comes to mind. I'm not suggesting that the Canucks. will go back to being the best team in Canada or a team that's in the, you know, deep in the playoffs again. But certainly better than what we've seen early on. No question my line.

I think, you know, Elias Pedersen is going to start scoring. They'll tighten up defensively. I think Thatcher Demko is going to get comfortable in net. He struggled at times. So I see some bounce back for Vancouver. I don't know if it'll be enough for them to make the playoffs. I think that's going to be pretty close there, but they will be better, I think. All right. I'm going to throw my hat in the ring. I get to tell you, I really do think that the Rangers are going to find their way. But boy, has it been, it's just been really hard for them. And you and I are chatting off to a one four and one start. I just think there's too much talent there. I think it's obvious the goal tending has maybe, you know, I think Chesterkin and Georgiev have maybe, you know, struggled without having the presence of Henrik Lundquist in the range.

Ranger organization. I think, you know, playing without a, if I can use the term, playing without a net, safety net, as it were, might have been an issue for those young net minors of the future for the Rangers. But I do think that they are going to get them together. I think that there's too much talent there. But that is a, for me, that's one of the biggest surprises of the season, the one four and one start for the Rangers. And I do think that they can turn the table there. All right. And how about one more?

And this comes from Patrick who wants to know, what have you gleaned about how teams have used the taxi squad in the early season? And I think it's fascinating because I think that's, you know, it's been part of it's something new that teens have been able to rely on and have had to rely on given the COVID-19 situation. But to me, it really has challenged management and coaching staffs to work so closely together about getting the right people in the lineup, using the salary cap and stuff. Are you surprised at how it's unfolded or is it still sort of an evolving art form? Well, it's still evolving because once the HL's up and running and we'll see how that goes this year. I mean, my goodness, I don't know if it's a sure thing that they're able to complete a situation. season but we sure hope so but once the HL's up and running it'll be even more interesting because of course you're going to want your younger and higher end

prospects to play hockey and not sit in a taxi squad so you know how will that affect the composition of the taxi squad while at the same time having death players that you trust in case of COVID situations or injuries so I'm looking forward to seeing that but so far it's been a mixture of you know you know teams that have actually used it for its original intent, which is depth. But some teams also using it to manage the cap so that you see players on the off days technically in terms of if you follow the paper trail going down on the taxi squad and the

next day being back on Angel roster, teams kind of maximizing the loopholes and the rules to massage their cap situation. So a lot of that's been going on with the taxi squad. But yeah, it's, you know, I think in general, frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if almost Every single player that started the year on a taxi squad ends up playing in the NHL this year. That's how varied, I think, in taxing the roster situations are going to be for all kinds of reasons. Yeah, good point. All right, my friend, it is just about time to wrap things up here.

And as always, you know, we're sort of like the sandwich in the athletic hockey show or the meat in the athletic hockey show sandwich. Of course, bookended by our good pals, Ian Mendez in Ottawa and Haley's. Salvean, helping out. Sean McIndo also on Monday and Thursday. Funny man. Yes. And this week, Bobby Ryan from the Red Wings, joined Ian and Haley on Monday's show. So you should check that out if you haven't already.

Derek Engeland of the Vegas Golden Knights spends the full 60 with Craig Custin's this week of the Athletic. Honestly, one of the most important players, I think, in Vegas Golden Knights history, right? It was such an important part of that franchise establishing an identity early on in 2018, and of course going to the Stanley Cup final in their first season. So good on Derek England. And Curtis Foster is Michael Russo's guest on Straight from the Source this week at The Athletic. You should check out our comments section for each podcast episode at the athletic app. And rate and subscribe to The Athletic Hockey Show on Apple.

Apple, if you aren't a subscriber, you should go to theathletic.com slash hockey show and receive a subscription for just $3.99 per month. That is almost giving it away, my friend. Right on, right on.