The Athletic Hockey Show - Re-drafting the 2015 NHL Draft: is it the best of all-time?

Episode Date: June 24, 2025

What would the 2015 NHL Draft look like if the picks were made with hindsight? On today’s special edition of The Athletic Hockey Show Prospect Series, Max, Scott, and The Athletic’s own Peter Baugh do just that, re-drafting one of the best classes in history and giving big picture thoughts about how it played out the second time around. Host: Max BultmanWith: Scott Wheeler and Peter BaughExecutive Producer: Chris FlanneryProducer: Chris Flannery Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the Athletic Hockey Show Prospect Series. Hey, everybody, Max Boltman here alongside Scott Wheeler and Peter Baugh for a special edition, special episode, really, of the Athletic Hockey Show. This is going to be accompanying a couple articles that we have going this week. And Peter, why don't you start this off by telling us a little bit about the premise? Yeah, so I guess I was talking to my editor, Alex Pruitt, who does a great job for us here at The Athletic. And we were talking about just how crazy the 2015 draft class was. And now this is the 10-year anniversary. We were thinking about it a little and how to kind of try to encapsulate that.

And we came up with two ideas. So one is a story that I'm going to be doing with Dom Lechision that's coming out, I believe, tomorrow, about how this draft class compares to the 2003 draft class, which is widely considered one of the best ever, if not the best ever. and we're going to look at how it stacks up numerically. But then we also wanted to do a redraft where it's just focusing on the 2015 picks and looking at how crazy a collection of talent it is by having other people redraft the order because there's some great late round gems.

There's some great second round picks. There's great picks all over. And so I enlisted Max and Scott. And here we are doing a podcast version that will also have a written stuff. or accompanying it. All right. So we are going to draft this more in a vacuum. We're going to each kind of be generic NHL teams drafting.

We're not going to do this as like, oh, looking back, who should Buffalo have taken, who should Edmonton have taken, who should, you know, Toronto have taken. We're kind of going generic. So we're really trying to suss out as who's had the best career and who would you take as well going forward. That being said, we have a randomized draft order for who's going to be making each pick. And it's going to start at number one with Scott. Yeah, not a big decision here, not a decision at all. It's Connor McDavid number 97 for the blue and orange guys in Edmonton. And it's Connor McDavid without blinking or thinking twice. I think we should also add that Scott did randomize the draft order just for just putting that on the record. We're not going to put 2015 conspiracy theories out into the orbit. There were enough of those at the time with the Edmonton Oilers. even the redrafts have controversy in the draft lottery.

All right. I don't think either of us have a problem with that pick, Peter. So let's just move right on to number two. I'm picking second. And I'm going to go with Jack Eichel. I think there was a couple players worth consideration here, some really good wingers at the top of this class that I think we're going to get to very soon. But I think when you look at Eichael, yeah, there was the injury blip.

There was some drama around some of the times in Buffalo. But he has blossomed into just a truly dominant. two-way center. He's won a Stanley Cup, which, you know, that will be something that I think's going to be interesting to factor as we go is how much are we attributing kind of team success to how we view these guys' careers. But I think in Eichl's case, it's pretty clear that he was a driver on that Vegas Stanley Cup team. He's become a Selky candidate center, and he's still every bit as highly productive, a center in the NHL as we all wanted him to be at the time of his draft. I have no issues with that pick. I think there's the next three players on my list are

wingers, and I think the center and the position piece of the puzzle matters with Eichol. Yeah, I think it depends on how much you value position. I actually, before the draft, before he randomized it, I really didn't want the second pick because I thought that was the hardest one, because I think there's a group of players that are kind of in the same tier behind McDavid, and I would rather have two on the snake draft at three and four. The Eichael pick is interesting, because I think Eichl is an unbelievable player. But I think the player that I am going to pick third overall was probably going to be my pick if I had number two, who I think has been the second best player in the draft class.

And that's Mika Ranton, who is a consistent 100-point player who just showed that he's able to take over games in the playoffs, who led a Stanley Cup winning team's forward group and points during the playoffs and in the regular season, and has just been a beast's entire career. I'd like our listeners to know that our former avalanche reporter is also wearing a blue hat and a burgundy t-shirt on screen here while picking Miko Rantan. I'd like to say that the blue hat is for the Durham Bulls, which is a minor league baseball team, and the burgundy shirt is for a Mexican league baseball team. So none at all related to hockey. But I do acknowledge that seeing Rantanin play on a daily basis probably impacts how highly I view him as a play. player. But I think the world kind of has also seen how good he is, and he's on his way to the Hall of Fame if he is able to continue this base he's on. Yeah, I've got Rantin at three as well, so I don't have no problem with that pick. I think the important takeaway here is just that

Peter likes bad baseball. You know, I just like all baseball, frankly. With my next pick, this is a tough one. This is number four. Number four overall. I'm between two or three guys, since we're not doing this based on positions or anything, I'm really between two guys. And I'll just go ahead and say who they are because I don't think that either of them will be left if I don't take them. I'm between Mitch Marner and Karel Kaprizov, which brings up an interesting debate that we were talking about before we started recording, which is how do we view where someone is at currently in their career versus someone's output over their total career?

And I think you have to balance the two a little bit. And because of that, I'm going to go with Mitch Marner, who has had an unbelievable career, even if a little bit dramatic at times, even if things are maybe in a bit of a messy spot as he's leaving Toronto. But the fact of the matter is he's been an unbelievable player. I think he's pretty good defensively, too. And I think he's going to continue to put up seasons that are 90 to 100 points and continue to be a driver on important teams. We'll see if that extends to the playoffs, kind of as time keeps going, if he's able to replicate his regular season production in the playoffs. But I feel pretty good about having Rantan and Marner as my first two picks.

This part of it is, this is the most interesting part of the draft so far here for me. I think because the Russian factor and how long Caprizov lingered, I think is a part of the conversation. If we were to raise our hands here, and the listeners can't see our hands, but if we were to raise our hands here, do we all agree that Kaprizov is a better place? player right now than Mitch Marner. Yes. Yes. I think Caprazov is a better player right now than Mitch. And yet, I think the fact that he came over in his mid-20s is a factor and was a

contributing factor at the time to why he was selected where he was. And that piece of the history of his career, I think, is important, whereas Mitch played another year in London and then was playing in the NHL, right? So, yeah, I think there's an interesting. inflection point between those two players specifically because of the different careers they've had. And yet the player you're picking here is probably the lesser player in the here and now right now. Yeah, Caprisoff, I think when he got hurt this year was the MVP favorite. And he does have a higher MVP finish.

You know, he's finished top 10 for a heart. I believe the closest Marner has gotten. And he's not that far off. He was 13th. He's been around Selke. They're both amazing players. But the difference here for Peter, and I think I don't know. know which way I would have gone. This was going to be my toughest debate if I had to make this

pick. But Marner's played double as many games. So do you want the slightly higher ceiling? Maybe the guy who feels a little bit more like a takeover, a game kind of player, or do you want the guy who, you know, you're drafting them? And over time, I think that gap gets less, obviously, though we expect that both will continue to play 70 plus games a season, you know, health permitting. But you miss out on 300 games at the start of a career. That's a lot of value to leave on the table. Yeah. I think, though. this could be a completely different discussion if he doesn't get hurt this year, because this was on pace to be his best season.

Capriza, I'm talking about, like, he was unbelievable this year. And if he wins the Hart Trophy, it's probably tough to not put him as the head of Marner. But we didn't get to see that season in its totality because he got hurt. That being said, I will take Caprize off at number five. I think it's the last chance to really get true, like, MVP-level player in this draft, which is insane at number five that that's already, like, even a. a discussion. There is one more guy in this class who was on my heart ballot this year, I suppose, I should say. But it was pretty far down and it was pretty unique circumstances.

I was about to say, the guy I'm taking at six was in the MVP conversation for some folks this year. He was not the MVP choice or even an MVP nominee. And he was actually not among my five players on my heart ballot. But that's who I'm going to go to Zach Werenski, who I think is the best defenseman in this class. And I think at this point in time is the best. player available. There are a few other forwards that I have sort of 7, 8, 9 on my list that I drew up before we went live. But I think Werenski playing the premium position, being a number one defenseman in the NHL, being the best player on an NHL team, frankly. I think Werenski is the clear top player at his position in this class. And there are some very good defensemen that we're going

to see go here later in the first round. But I like Zach at six. I think that's a good pick. And I think we're at an interesting point where I think, I don't know about you guys, but I had my first five that I was going to take were the same, not the same order, but we all had the same players, I'm guessing, as the first five picks. And then I feel like we're kind of at this next little tier where there are a lot of guys we can consider. And I think Werenski, especially after the year, he just had as a pretty understandable and good selection. It's a good moment for Werenski for us to be doing this draft here, because I think if we had done this a year ago prior to this year, I'm not sure that he does go six, but when you put up an 82-point season as a defenseman,

23 goals, meaning as much, like Scott said, they're the best player on an NHL team and a team that very nearly made the NHL playoffs this year, it's the only cup playoffs this year. This is a good moment for him. Led Team USA with six points in four games at Four Nations. He was their leading score. Now, six assists, but he was one of their better players at Four Nations as well. Definitely. Yours again at number seven, Scott.

Yeah, at number seven, this is where. was sort of the first really contentious slotting on my list. I felt that my six were pretty clear-cut my six, and I debated a number of different forwards at number seven, but I'm going to go to a player who was actually selected in the second round in Sebastian Aho of the Carolina Hurricanes. Sebastian maybe hasn't had the peak that some of the players in front of them have had here in terms of those 9,500-point seasons that we've seen at Caprazov or a Mitch Marner or Miko Ranton or a Jack Eichel have. But, Aho has been a pretty consistent

75 to 85 point player in the NHL. And again, a top player on a top team hasn't been able to get over the hump in the playoffs. But Aho was the player that I felt most comfortable with amongst this next cluster of forwards as the best guy. And he hasn't gotten over the hump, but he's gotten farther than a lot of people. I mean, three conference finals in his career,

and I know they've gotten swept or lost in five and all of them, but that's not nothing. and a lot of teams would like to be in a position where they make three conference finals. And he's also a great two-way player. So he would have been my pick in that spot too. And has done it without playing with an Austin Matthews or without playing with a Nathan McKinnon, right? Like he's done it as the focal point of his team. I agree with that.

I mean, he would have been my pick here too. I definitely agree. I think it's interesting. I did not expect this when I was making my list. The guy I would have been debating with was Kyle Conner. Aho's actually outscored Kyle Conner in the NHL to this point. while being that really strong two-way center. So I think he's a solid number seven.

Like I think it's almost with a bullet. And how about this class, which has talked about so much for the strength of its first round, having two players from outside the first round within the first seven picks here in Caprazav and Ajo. Yeah, that's pretty amazing. All right, I'm at number eight. I am going to go with Kyle Connor.

There's a couple centers. I really, really strongly debated here. But I think this year in particular, Connor showed that he can get to that level of that kind of game-breaking winger. He knocked on the door of 100 points. Didn't quite get there. He's got multiple 90-plus-point seasons, multiple 40-goal seasons. Would you like him to be a little more physical, a little more defensively responsible?

Yes, you would. And that's part of the debate here with the two centers that I'm passing up for him. But I think ultimately, when you can find a game breaker and you can do it at like eighth, I think that's the range where you start to take that shot. And when you can get a lady penguin or you just, you have to do it. that's right. Max's team has a lot of gentlemanly conduct and that's important. Sportsmanship.

No, he would have been my pick too. And it kind of leaves me on an interesting point at nine here because, again, we're kind of all on the same page. The first eight guys that I had listed out that I wanted are the first eight who went. I'm going to go with nine. I'm going to, as Scott made a great point that we've had a lot of guys who went out of the, or a few guys in Caprizov and. Aho, who were not first-round picks. And I'm going to take another one here with the number nine

pick. And I'm going to go with Anthony Sorrelli, who I think was a third round selection, number 72 overall. Maybe a bit of a reach, but I had him number one on my Selke ballot this year. I think he's an awesome two-way player. And I maybe I'm subconsciously getting in my head because I already have two wings, but I think he's a great, a great player. That's the first shocker for me. Yeah, that's the first one that's a little off the board. I had Sorelli sort of in the late teens more than the top 10 conversation for me. I think there are some forwards here that just provide significantly more offense. Now, the center position and the two-way value is real.

He's won two Stanley Cups as well. But that was the first one that was a little surprising for me. I understand it. But he's had multiple, like he had 27 goals this year. He's been top five in Selke three times, elite defensive play. player. I couldn't pass him up. So how would you compare with Sorrelli, though? There's other Selkie candidate forwards here who have scored more than him in Rope Hince and Joel Erick Seneck. Those are the two centers I was talking about at my last pick. Both have been more

productive. Both are certainly right around. Maybe Hince may be a little less so than Eric Seneck and Sorrelli. But Sirelli and Eric Sinek, I think, are both multiple, multiple top 10 guys. And Hince has been in that conversation at least once. Yeah. So that's where it gets tricky. I think there is a bit of shine with winning Stanley Cups that maybe is unfairly. Not unfairly. I mean, you won the Stanley Cup, but also, like Rupa Hintz, hasn't played with Kutraven Point and headman his whole career in Vasselowski, and that helps with players winning Stanley Cups. So, yeah, I just, every time I watch Sorrelli, I really like his game and the defensive prowess and the ability to, it's not like his linemates are good, but he's not playing with, usually

they have point with Kuturav and those guys. So I don't know. He's maybe a little outside the board, and he's definitely, I was looking at Dom's like GSVA rankings before this, and he's a little lower than some of the other guys. But I still feel okay about it. I think he's, I think he's just such an awesome player that I'm okay with going a little off the board there. He's a coach's dream player. There's no doubt. I think he's kind of an ideal to see. I just would say, you could, you can get even a little higher than that, like, Hintz has four seasons where he's higher scoring than Sorelli's best. Eric Seneck has two, and again, both of them, like all three of these guys are Selky candidates.

So I think that's where I would have leaned for one of the others, but that means one of them will still be there for me next time I pick. Yeah, well, I am actually going to take Hints with my next pick. He was, he was, I liked both of those two a lot on this because of the two-way ability. And Hince obviously has a few 30 goal seasons. He's gotten up to 37 goals. and he's been on really good stars teams, which that'll leave you with Eric Seneck if you want him, who's a great player.

But I just the other two spoke to me a little bit more. And I'm okay with, I'm comfortable with my decision. All right. Well, I will take Eric Sinek watching him at the Four Nations. I've always liked him as a player, but I thought he was outstanding at that tournament. I thought it really showed what he can be. And I think how we will come to appreciate him even more if and when the Minnesota Wild can make some deeper runs in the playoffs. I'm not calling him quite Barkov, but I think there is a little bit of that element to

him where the more on a national stage he gets, the more you see what he does to top players, how he impacts the game, how his size in particular around the net makes him such a load to handle and how smart of a player he is, I think his reputation is going to take off once the wild are able to make some deeper runs, which I do think is coming as long as they can keep Caprize off. So I will quite happily take Ericksonac next. What is the, with him versus Sorrelli? Like what makes you, because their career numbers aren't drastically different. They've played around the same number of games and have around the same number of points.

What's the differentiator there? Just more. I mean, it's, I think Ericson X had more offense multiple times than him. I think there's, he's a bigger body, maybe a more of a load to handle. He's taken on, you know, I think being asked to play. There is a benefit where you get to play with Caprizoff, and I don't know that Sorrelli's quite played with the Caprizo level player, although certainly he's played with good players. But I think when you're asked it be that number one guy,

and I think that is a little more of a task than we've seen Sirelli have to take. I think if you could offer Tampa that trade one for one, I think Tampa would do it personally. I don't think Minnesota would do it. But again, maybe I'm wrong on that. I like that we disagree. It makes it fun. What do you think, Scott?

I would lean Sirelli just because of what he's accomplished and the impact that he's had on winning the role. I thought he was also excellent at the full. Four nations, maybe not excellent, but I thought he was good on a very, very deep Canadian team. But it's close. I could lean in either direction there. I wasn't going to take, frankly, with my next two picks back to back here, I wasn't going to take either of Sorrelli or Eric Seneck if they were here. And the two players that I was sort of keying in on were Travis Kineckney and Matt Barzel. So I'm going to go back to back.

There are some defensemen that I had sort of right here as well. I think we're going to see a cluster of defensemen go in the next six or seven picks here. But Kinectney is a gamer. Kinekney's a dog. I coincidentally was one of the first players that I really heavily scouted. I started doing this work in the 2020-3 draft or 2013 draft, but 2015 was the first time that I was doing it on a full-time sort of paid to do this basis. And I was based in Ottawa at the time and saw a lot of Travis Kinekney with the Ottawa 67s.

And he has had kind of exactly the career, I think, that you would have hoped he would have when you picked him at the time. He was always this super scrappy, mouthy, ultra competitive kid who played bigger than his size and had tons of skill. And that's exactly what he has become as a first line winger on an NHL team and just does it with so much intensity and fight and bark. And he's a guy that you hear now covering the draft for the last 12 years here. he's a guy that you hear now a lot from from prospects as well as as kind of someone that they want to model that someone someone that some of the smaller guys want to model their game after so really think there's good value at 12 in connecting and then barzell just the skating and the skill level i don't think there's that there's that level of talent that's still available there's been there's a couple of players here that haven't yet been picked up front that have had point per game seasons or or thereabouts but barzell just does it with with so much skill and craft. And I think if he wasn't a part of such a middling Islander's team, that he would probably have a little bit more shine around the league. I thought really hard about taking Barzal when I had my last two picks together. I was thinking really hard about him.

And I really like connecting. That was who I was hoping I was going to get a chance to take at my next one. So I don't have any issue. Both of those guys are very high on my list. Those were picks number 12 and 13 for Scott. But I had all of them in my time. top 13. So I think this is, yeah. I think we should also add, not to not to be rude to poor Bruins fans who had a tough year, but we're also at the range right now, 13, 14, and 15 where they took Jacobs, Borrell, Jake DeBrusk, and Zachary Sension, three picks in a row in the first round. And Matt Barzal, Kyle Connor, and Thomas Shabbat went with the next three picks of the draft, which is a pretty tough, tough go for them. And I think Thomas Shabbat's going to go shortly here.

Well, and how crazy is it that as we're doing, like, you could say that about a lot of drafts, like, not the three picks part, but like, oh, look at who was still available at, you know, 14, 15, but those guys would have gone like 5, 6, 7 in a redraft. Most of those guys are still available, not Connor, but bars up right around in the same neighborhood. And, you know, even in a redraft, it's like, yeah, that's who it should have been. So again, speaks to the strength of the class. Let's take a quick break right there. We'll be right back with pick number 14.

All right, we're back. So just a quick refresher on where things. stand after 13 picks. Number one, Connor McDavid. Number two, Jack Eichel. Number three, Miko Ranton. Number four, Mitch Marner, five, Caril Caprizoff, six, Zach Werenski, seven, Sebastian Ahho, eight, Kyle Connor, nine, Anthony Sorrelli, ten, Rope Hints, 11, Joel Ericksonek, 12, Travis Kineckney, and 13 Matt Barzel. Those are the players that are off the board in the top 13. And at number 14,

I'm going to take the second defenseman of this class. But it's not going to be Thomas Shabbat, like Scott thought. It's going to be Noah Hanifan, who I think is this really... I don't know that I think he's quite a true number 1D, but he's a true top pair D. Excellent two-way defender. Another guy, we're going to keep mentioning the Four Nations over and over, I suspect, who I thought was outstanding at that tournament

and really showed what he can be. He plays a huge role. I don't think he has that much less offense than Shabbat, but I love the defense. So I'm going to go with him. Hanifan. Interesting. I'm okay with that.

I had Shabbat and Hanifin back to back on my wist, so no firm disagreements there. Yeah. I like Hanofin. I think I had Shabbat above him on my board, which will come into play when I make my next couple picks here. But I think with the next pick after Hanofin with the 15th pick, I'm going to pick Timo Meyer, who I think has fallen a little bit. He's got a goal scorer plays kind of an intense game.

He can play physical. Sometimes you want a little more from him still. It still feels like there's a little more offense there that he generates all these chances but can't always capitalize on all of them. But he's still a guy who's put up 40 goals in a season who's a consistent, like around 30 goals every year. And definitely a top line winger, or at the very least top. six. So I'm okay having him 15th overall. It feels like a steal, frankly. It feels like there's been a little bit of a tale of two careers with Meyer. I don't think in New Jersey, he's been

the player that he was in San Jose, where he was really the focal point. Now, maybe some of that is the price tag that's associated with it and making almost nine million bucks a year now and having to live up to that in a way that he didn't have to when he was the guy in San Jose. But I think if you're talking about the totality of his career that Tim O'Meyer absolutely belongs in this range, even if people are maybe a little bit down on him relative to where he was two, three years ago. Yeah. In New Jersey, it's been 52 points and 53 points, which is a dip from the previous two seasons, 76 and 66, which I think, that's how I think of Tim O'Meyer is the 60 to 70 point winger. If there's been a little shine taken off him, it's probably purely a result of the last couple years. but still a super impactful player. I like to pick Peter.

And I think he's got a little more. I thought he had a, it was only five games, but I thought he was really impactful in the Carolina series that they lost. I thought he was a really important player, had a ton of chances, didn't always finish, but I think I'm comfortable with him at 15. And then at 16, I am going to take Thomas Shabbat,

who's a guy who, I think when Ottawa was down for the past few years before this one, I think kind of maybe flew under the radar I bet just because the team wasn't very good, but he can play heavy minutes. Does not get tired. One of those guys that often played 30, 30 plus, and his coaches would say postgame that he was the same in the late in the third period as he was when the puck dropped, right? Yeah, he's averaging in his career 2350 a game over 512 games.

So he's able to play a lot of hockey, and I'm perfectly happy to take him at 16. And that's, I think, the first defenseman I've taken. And I think the third overall, because I think you have Wrenski-Scott and you have Hannafin, and I don't think there are any other defensemen who have been taken yet. Well, that's tough. I was hoping to get Shabbat. I think I'm going to deviate from my board here. When I made it, I was thinking a lot about this past season.

And just the more I think about it, I think I'm going to take for, I'm going to go with Vladislav Gavakov here, elite defensive defensemen. Wow. Yeah, I think it's a little. Like I said, it's a little bit early than I plan to. But in elite defensive defenders, literally the best shutdown metrics in the NHL this past season. He's not going to put up quite as much offense as even a couple of the other defensemen that are left on this board. But I think knowing you can throw this guy over the boards at any time in the game, the offense is not negligible.

He's still like a 30-point player who can shut down top players, take tough minutes. I'm not sure I feel great about it, but that's how I would go. And I am eager to hear why I'm wrong. I mean, I don't hate it. He had, if we're going strictly off this season, I think that maybe is even too low. Like, I think he was more valuable this season than some of the other guys that were, that have already been drafted. But I think that I'll be interested to see if this was a contract year bump that he just had or if he'll be able to keep it going over the next few years, which, who knows, maybe you or I will be covering him next year, Max, with the Red Wings and Rangers. it'll be it'll be interesting to see to see what it kind of becomes of his career over the next

assuming he leaves LA will probably get a seven year deal but he had an unbelievable year this year as you said one of the best shutdown players in the league this past season my issue with gavakov at 17 is that it has not been a career long thing and hasn't even really been close to a career long thing in the way that it has for a few of the defensemen that are still on the board who've played 20 to 25 minutes inside a team's top four, basically since they entered the league. So again, I think we're back at this, that tension between the today and the here and now

and when we're making these picks versus how, how heavily do you weigh what they've accomplished to date? Right. So basically we're talking, I mean, we'll just put names on this. We're talking about Gavrokov versus Ivan Proverov and versus Rasmus Anderson, I think,

or maybe even Eric Chernak is kind of the big debates. I think Chernak deserves to be in that conversation too. I had Vince done ahead as well. Yeah. Yeah. So to me, and I think that's a very real debate for all of those players. I think maybe it's recency bias. Maybe I've been digging too deep into his numbers because he is in this free agent class,

like Peter said, which by the way, a lot of this group that we're talking about today is in this free agent class, which is pretty exciting, either this one or the next one. So that makes it a little timely. But Gavrikov for me, we'll go on to the next one. With the next one, I'm going to take Rasmus Anderson. When you think of what you want a top four defenseman, sort of number two, number three defensemen to look like in the NHL, I think the descriptors that a lot of teams would provide for that type of player

looks a lot like Rasmus Anderson. He's got some bite. He's a competitor. He can hammer the puck. He can run your power play. He can penalty kill. He can play with different types of partners. He can eat minutes.

He can be an offensive guy. He'll play hard in his own zone. I'm a big, big, big fan of Rasmus Anderson. I think he's a stud. I think he's another guy that if he were not in a smaller market, would have a lot of shine league-wide. I think it hurts some of these guys, even when they play on the West Coast, frankly.

But I think Anderson is the next D. I like Provrov. I like Vince Dunn. Provrov certainly had some real highs and lows in his career, but I think Anderson's a legitimate player. You could put him on any blue line in the league, and his coach would be throwing him over the boards often. He's also a fun personality, which is not, I guess, shouldn't factor in the pick. But I, there's a game against the Rangers this year where he was just jawing at the bench the whole time. I think he was, he might have chirped

Shasturkin for his new contract or something. I forget exactly what it was, but I remember I talked to him after the game and he was like, yeah, it felt like a lot of their guys focused on me instead of playing. It went well, which I thought was just a hilarious quote. So I'm a Rasmus Anderson fan. I think he's a fun player. All right, Scott, back to you. And then with the second one, I'm debating between Vince Dunn. This is 19, by the way, number 19. Yes, this is pick 19, my second pick in a row here. I'm debating between Vince Dunn and a forward. I have Vince done ahead of Ivan Provrop, just ever so slightly on my list. And I think there's a chance that the forward that I like here is going to get back around.

So I'm going to play the board here a little bit. And I'm going to take Vince Dunn with my second pick. And I think he belongs in this range with that forward. And I think that forward could continue to slip here. Well, now I'm full of suspense wondering. A little bit of secrecy late in the first round here. I think I know who your forward is. And I think he's my next ranked player.

So I am going to take him. Is it Dylan Strom? It was Dylan Strom. Yeah. Slower start to the career for Dylan Strom. There's no doubt. For sure. Bounced around multiple teams.

The feet have always been a question. Because of that, I think he needs to be in the right situation. Otherwise, I think if we're talking about a six-foot-three center who's put up three three straight seasons of 65 points or more, I don't think they're getting this deep into the draft. I mean, we're talking about pick number 20 here. But I think by this point, like, it's just way too much to pass. up. So I am going to take Strom, he needs to be in the right situation. But I think 20 is crazy to be talking about a player this good. A player who in the actual draft of this year went at number three.

And to be talking about him at 20 and him not have been like, he's still very successful. He was a point per game player on a number one seed in the conference this year. I mean, it's pretty remarkable. And even if he's not as competitive or doesn't play with the kind of pace that you're hoping for out of a top six center at five on five, I think we often undervalue the value of power play players, and Dylan Strome is on PP1 on just about any team in the league. Absolutely. Yeah, I like that pick a lot. I don't, I, I'm looking at my next pick kind of, I also have a forward that I'm going to take that I kind of wish I had had Stroam instead of instead of this guy, but I'm going to go Brock Besser, who's another one of the guys who's a free agent

this summer. Had a 40-goal season two years ago. He's consistently in the upper 20s, that was the only time he's really kind of fully broken out. He's made a couple All-Star games. Really good player. It's interesting how kind of he's viewed league-wide. It feels like maybe teams aren't as high on him as fans sometimes,

just judging between the, reading between the lines of, if you look at what Vancouver was saying, I mean, their GM went on the record after the trade deadline and said the offers weren't very good for him. And you would think that a guy who put up 40 goals would be able to net you a pretty good pick as a rental. But it didn't appear to be the case this deadline. So I'm a little, I'm certainly aware that maybe league wide he doesn't have the same perception as his numbers would maybe suggest. But I think it's decent value here for this pick. All right.

So that is pick number 21 for Peter. And you get to go again at 22. I might surprise you guys with this pick a little. And this could definitely have the championship shine element could certainly come into play here. But I'm going to take the first goalie off the board. And I'm going to take Aden Hill, who has really emerged in Vegas as a legit starter. He did not have a great playoffs this year. He wasn't very good in the playoffs.

But the year that won the cup, he was fantastic. He has a career save percentage of 9-0. nine over close to 200 games. And I think just he easily could have won the cons might the year they won the Cup. You had a 932 save percentage and two shotouts and was pretty unbelievable down the stretch for them. So I feel okay about it. I don't feel perfect about it because there's still some good players who play every night

instead of a goalie who really hasn't been a consistent starter until the past few years. But I'll stick with it and I'll go with Aiden Hill. I don't hate it. I had Hill sort of late 20s rather than. early 20s here, but I think he's, I think he's the top goalie in this class. When you look at the five or six goalies that were produced out of this draft class that have been regular goalies in the NHL for the last eight or nine years, I think Hill is at the top of that list.

There isn't a true sort of number one stud to come out of 2015. And if there is a weakness from this class, I think it's probably the goalie class that it produced. But Hill, yeah, I mean, Hill's been a very, very good goalie in the NHL over the last what, half decade at least? Yeah. And I also feel like goalie classes sometimes are like harder to evaluate

just because they take a little longer to develop. Like we could see, I mean, McKenzie Blackwood's on a good Colorado team and could have great numbers the next few years and suddenly we're like,

oh, that was a better goalie class that we realized just because goalies sometimes it takes them while to find the right situation. Definitely. That's the tough thing is he's only been a, you know, 25 games or more the last three years,

which is, You're sacrificing a lot on the front end of that. But on talent, like the value of a goalie who can be that for you for even three or four years, and obviously you get them now going forward is pretty significant, even when compared to like we're looking at a lot of basically second pair D and middle six to maybe there's a couple more top six forwards left here, which still at this range in the draft, shocking. But I don't have a problem with that pick at all, Peter.

All right. At number 23, I'm going to take Troy Terry. I think he is one of my last couple true top six forwards here. I don't think the gap between him and Timo Meyer is actually that big. I think Meyer's physical elements and maybe the takeover a game potential is higher, which is why I also would have had Meyer above Troy Terry. But I don't think Terry's that far off, although he doesn't have quite the same physical stature.

I think if we're kind of on the same thing with Hill, it's really just been the last few years with Terry that he's really taken off. And he has a 37-goal season in 21-22. The rest have kind of been like he got up to 23 goals. in 2023, and he's been over 20 each of the last two years, but kind of in the lower 20s. Now, some of that could be the team he's on. Timo Myers probably had benefited from some better linemates at certain points. But I certainly don't, I think it's a good pick at this stage in the draft.

The fact that you got a guy who scored 37 goals in a season, 23rd overall, just, again, speaks to how crazy this draft class is. Yeah, I would have Meyer ahead too, but I just think, you know, I'm not knocking a guy who can be a bankable 20 goal score, 55-inch player, which is what Terry has been. So I'll take Troy Terry. From Denver, Colorado, too, I believe. There you go. Scott at 24. Yeah, that brings me back to another two-pack here. And this is where I think we start to see a little bit of drop-off, at least in terms of that top six, true top four that you're talking about. But there are still a couple of players who've been that through the course of their career available in the draft. And I'm

going to, I'm taking a lot of defensemen here and I'm sorry if I'm hogging them, but I'm going to go to Ivan Proverov, despite the way, the difficult way that he left Philadelphia and the way that he kind of pushed his way out of that organization. He has still only played for two teams and has been a top four defensemen for both the Columbus Blue Jackets and for a long time for the Philadelphia Flyers has been a consistent 35, 40 point defenseman, has broken past 40 a couple of times. And on pure, if we're talking pure career grades at the, near the very top of this class amongst the defensemen in terms of production, games played, you go down the list. So I'll go back to Proverov. That gives me Anderson Dunn, Proverov, and Werensky here.

So I should probably, not that we're building a team, but I should probably start to pick a few forwards here. There are a couple of forwards that I still quite like. but the one who I feel plays the most well-rounded game and is sort of really developed into a very consistent player after a bit of a slow start in his NHL career is Pavel Zaka. Pavel is obviously played right at the top of Boston's lineup. Part of that is a byproduct of David Cricci and Patrice Bergeron leaving at the exact same time. But Zatja Zaka has been a very, very good player. Another center who understands the defensive side of the puck has always been a very reliable player, has penalty killed, over the course of his career and has been decently productive as well.

So I think Zach is the guy here. And there were a couple of other forwards. I would have liked to get Troy Terry here and Brock Besser here, that kind of a thing. There were a couple of other forwards that I also considered. But I think I think Zaka and Pro Vrov are the two picks here. Well, Zach is a guy I debated when I took Terry because he's not that far off. Terry's offense, but he brings those other defensive elements, bigger body, can play center, all that. So I think that's a very good pick here.

I think the center element especially is big. Like, it's just tough to find guys who can play up the middle as well as. I mean, he's probably in an ideal world, a middle six center and not a top line center. But the fact that he can play with Posternak and have good chemistry with an elite scale player shows the kind of the level of player he is. All right. All right, let's take a quick break right there. We'll come back with the last five picks. And then we'll do some big picture analysis on what this all means.

All right, we're back. Five picks left. So this will be number 26. I'm not going to read all of them through like I did the last time because that'd be a lot. But my number 26 pick here is going to be Eric Chernak, who I just love. Yeah, there you go. I love the bite he plays with. I think this is a championship kind of player.

I kind of think he'd go above this on my own individual list. I have him a little higher, more like 2021. But it's such a good class that I do have a hard time really quibbling too much. And I'm certainly thrilled to be the one who gets to call his name here. because I just think there's not that many players like him in the NHL. I really wanted Eric Chernak, and I'm bummed that you robbed him, robbed me of him. He was going to be my next pick. Just for my own curiosity, do you see a gap between Chernak and Brandon Carlow,

because I have them back to back on my list? I have them in the same realm. I have them in the same range. It'd be a minor gap for me. I have Chernak a little higher, but I like both, and I think both can play the same kind of role. I just maybe it's the bias of having seen Chernac won those cups and see what that looks like in the Stanley Cup final versus Carlo. I do think he can have that kind of impact, a little thicker for Chernak as well, maybe just a little bit more offense.

Yeah. And I mean, in fairness to Carlo, he's made it to game seven of a cup final. So I know he didn't win it, but he essentially, like, if we're looking at how good a player, can they play on a championship level team? If you make a game seven of a cup final, you're a championship level team. You just might not have won. And the statistical production, Scott, to your point, is virtually identical. I just looked it up. So they probably should be close to back to back.

Carlos played a lot more games. The other one, I'm going to muse out loud a little bit because I'm down to my last two picks. So it doesn't really matter who I, if I tip my hand at all because you guys all have, I have the next two picks and then I'm done. But the one guy, I'm curious, I'm not going to take him. but I did kind of think about was Nico Mikola just based on the past two years in the player that he's become in Florida. I think it's probably a little bit too much recency bias,

but I think if we're doing this draft in like five years, there's a chance that he's, if we're redrafting again, there's a chance that he's going a little bit higher. But I am going to take Brandon Carlo with the 27th pick. Oh, there you go. They go back to back in the end. They do go back to back in the end.

and he, uh, he's up there with, with the highest games played in the class. He's a top four defenseman, um, has been on really good teams, has almost won a Stanley Cup,

has made deep playoff runs. Um, so I'm, I'm comfortable taking him in, in this spot. And then I think I'm actually going to stay with almost champions on the 2019 Bruins and go with Jake de Brusk, who I think at times,

I guess, it felt like in Boston he maybe they wanted a little more out of him that he was able to give. But the fact of the matter is he's 12th in the class and goals. Max was talking about the importance of top six forwards. And this is a guy who has four seasons with more than 25 goals. He's a pretty consistent producer, even if he, I don't know, maybe isn't as consistent as people want. So I feel good about taking him this. late in the draft, which is a little later than he went, but still in the first round.

All right. So we got two picks left here, 29 and 30. With 29, I will take another D. I'll take Jonas Siegenthaller. I think he's really become a very steady second pair of defensemen, not that much upside, not much offense, but you can trust him in a lot of situations. I'm curious, Scott, one thing I was thinking about as I was putting this list together, how different would Siegenthallor be for you than a guy from this year's class?

in Cam Reed, who's maybe, I mean, I think Reed maybe has a little more offense to his game, but he's a guy who I think we could see go comfortably in the top 20 of this year. And yeah, I think Seagenthaler defends sort of more firm, defends harder. He's a bigger, thicker, more physical defender than Cam Reed is. But in terms of the height profile, the way that they skate, the smarts, I think Reed's got more off, like Reed might run a power play in the NHL. Now, Siegenthaller has done that for the Swiss national team has been, I think that matters in this. As much as it's an NHL redraft, Siegantaller has been a very, very, very good player for Switzerland internationally.

He's going to be a big part of their Olympic team next year, potentially on their first pair with Roman Yossi next year. He's a legit, Siegithelor was in the conversation for me at 30 with my last pick. Siegenthaler is a legit second pairing defenseman in the NHL at this point, I would argue. that Swiss team, by the way. I know this isn't the point of the... They're a threat. They're going to... They have a chance to do some damage.

I could see them on the podium. I don't know how the drawl lineup, but a couple silver medals at the last worlds. And I think some of those countries where all the guys know how to play together, I think that that really matters. So I like the Seganthaler pick. I've watched him a good bit in Jersey

and think he's an awesome player can play a shutdown role. And I have no qualms with you taking him there. And then that leaves just one pick. And we can kind of open the floor here to some of the guys that are left. But I'm looking at Connor Garland, who has had a really nice career despite some ups and downs. I'm looking at Matt Roy, who just signed a six-year deal making almost $7 million a year. We're talking about a $7 million defenseman in the NHL who maybe won't go in the first round of a redraft here.

I'm looking at Alexander Carrier, who just had an immediate impact after the move from Nashville. to Montreal. Some of the forwards a little bit further down, more middle six guys, but Andrew Mangiopani, Mason Appleton, Jack Roslovich, Anthony Beauvilliers,

ninth in games played in this draft class because of how early he broke into the league despite being kind of a perimeter utility depth piece throughout most of his career. But really, I think ultimately it's between Garland and Roy here. And I'll go with the scrappy Connor Garland. I think he's a sneaky, impactful player.

He's been a real driver. I know there's been talk of locker room stuff and him maybe not getting along with everybody and that kind of a thing. But Garland has been a sneaky driver for that Vancouver team at points. And when players like Pedersen and Besser have gone quiet, Garland has been a pretty

consistent contributor for them while also getting under guy's skins and playing with a bit of snarl. So I'll lean Garland over over Matt Roy here. but those were kind of the two I was really considering. I don't know how I missed Matt Roy. I should have took him at the last pick.

I think Seagenthal were in Roy are comparable. A little more offense for Roy. Yeah. Garland is also a now world champion. He was on that U.S. team that just won at World. So that's exciting for him. I think the fact that we're still, like the fact that Matt Roy didn't go, the fact that like Lawson Krause, Jack Roslovick,

Manji Apolli. For sure. Yeah, Manjia Pani had like a 35, 36 goal season one year in Calgary. Like these are some pretty impressive players that are just not even in the top 30, which really speaks to the kind of level of draft class that this was. Krause would have been the next guy on my list. I mean, how many times are you going to see a six, four, three time 20 goal score? You know, I don't think if you told an NHL team that guy was going to be that,

I don't think there's any chance he's getting to 31. And yet I don't think it's much of an oversight. I think Garland is every bit as good as Lawson Krause. So I am regretting not taking Matt Roy at 29. But, yeah, that does speak to Scott. I mean, the number of players you just listed that will not go in the first round redraft is shocking. Yeah. There's some what-ifs.

Like Oliver Schillington was having a really nice career. There's the goaltenders that we sort of talked about with whether it's Blackwood or Samsonoff had some real highs and lows. But Samsov has been a starting goalie in the NHL. Montembow was just a starter on a playoff team. Yeah, there's even guys like, I mean, not even that he was in consideration here, but like Kevin Stenland is like a good NHL player who was on a Stanley Cup team a year ago. AJ Greer is maybe going to win a Stanley Cup this year. Maybe by the time this podcast comes out has already won one.

Will Borgon is a guy that the Rangers have as a top four defensemen currently. Like there's... Mika. Mika La. Yeah, like you just look through these names. There's a lot of NHL players. John Marino, Kegan Colossar, Daniel Sprong, Yacob Trennan. These are guys who are good NHL players who I think most teams, if they got that level of player with, say, the number 25 pick would be pretty pumped. And they're not even in the top 30 of this draft class. If this was a current 32 team league, are we going Roy and Krause as our next two? Yeah, I think so. Yeah, I wouldn't have any huge objections to that unless I am, the Mikala, like, surge of the last two years. I know it's recency bias, but he's been so important for that team that I'm a little, part of me wonders if he would be in there. But if we're looking at full career, I think Lawson Krause probably, probably is still ahead of him.

All right, so big picture takeaways here, guys. I mean, Peter, what's the first thing that jumps out after having gone through this? Obviously, other than the strength of the class, which we've mused about a fair amount, and anything really jump out to you, As you look back at the order, picks or orders that don't look right? I think just looking at back at this draft class, what's funny to see is the first round, obviously there's some great talent in the first round, but there's also some picks that you see that teams probably are kicking themselves a little bit, just that the player not becoming a consistent NHL or whatever.

And I think what makes this class so fun is the amount of picks in the later rounds that have emerged as legitimate NHL play, not only legitimate NHL players, but top line players, top pair defensemen, good goalies that are just going late in the draft. I mean, Kurokaprizo could win an MVP at some point.

He went really late. Aho's second round. Hints is late. It's just a fun class to look at the, kind of where some of these guys went, because it's not, a lot of these guys that we picked high in this redraft were way lower in the actual draft.

And I think one of the, the trends, one of the themes among those picks is it's a lot of two-way centers, right? I mean, Ajo, Hints, Ericksonac, Sirelli, all guys who were big rises. Zaka. Right? Like, although Zaka still went pretty high in the actual draft, but a lot of these risers that Peter's talking about. I mean, there's some mix up. There's Caprisoff, right, as the Russian factor and all that. Yeah. I don't think he was even, it wasn't a Mavavimitchkoff situation, right? I know there was some surprise to that one. But it's a lot of these two-way centers that shot up the board in the end. The one differentiator, when we look back on

2003 for me and this group is still McDavid at the top, though. Like, I think if you strip McDavid out of this class in 2003, I think you're actually talking about two classes that compare really closely together. But I truly believe that 2015 is the best class in NHL history. And I think when you look back on it and you put them side by side, if you were to redraft 2003, you'd have Getslaff and Perry and Mark Andre Fleury and some great, great, great players, Hall of Famers. but there is no McDavid in that class.

And I think Eichel and Rantanin and Caprazov represent a lot of what Perry and Getslaff and Mark Andre Fleury represent. But McDavid is just that singular player. And when you go back through the sort of pantheon of the all-time great players and when they were picked, the draft classes that had a McDavid type, even Crosby's year, they just didn't have, they didn't also have the Eichol and the Rantanin and the Mariner and the Caprazov and the Werencki, or they had maybe one or two guys of that caliber. I think that ultimately is what has really distinguished this class.

And it's sort of the cheap answer, but I think it's the right one, is that it's McDavid on top of everything else. Yeah, if you go just go to 2003, I mean, the first overall picks probably one of Bergeron, Getslaff, Perry, Stahl, maybe some outside consideration for Povosti. Maybe Flory. Maybe Flory. Maybe Flurry.

I mean, I'd probably take Bergeron. Yeah, but like, and he's amazing, he's a legend, but there's still a big gap between McDavid and Bergeron, and then you still have that overall strength and depth. So I'm with you, Scott. Yeah, that's a great, that's a great point. How many Hall of Famers do you think we have in the 2015 draft class? Great question. At least four. I think McDavid Eichol, Ranton, and Caprazov are on that path. Is Marner probably, Marner probably has to win at some point here. Yeah, I think he's a lot. I think he's, got a chance, though. I think Werencki probably has to win, or win a Norris. Four or five. Yeah. Yeah. I think the overrunner is probably four and a half.

Yeah. But, I mean, I think you're looking at McDavid, I think, is obviously already there. I think Ranton is well on his way. I think Ikel, if he stays healthy, will be on his way. Marner's the interesting one. I think if Marner has a deep playoff run, I think his career numbers are going to be to the point where he probably gets in. Oddly enough, head Mitch Marner stayed in Toronto, and it looks like that's not going to happen. But head Mitch Marner stayed in Toronto, I think his case actually

would have been helped by having finished ahead of Matt Sundane as the team's all-time leading score. Definitely. Well, we were doing this exercise as generic NHL teams, and we weren't drafting for our own personal teams. But as we alluded during the drafting, we do want to at least see how they stack up. So let's just go through these really quick. has Connor McDavid, Zach Werensky, Sebastian Ahho, Travis Kinechnie, Matt Barzell, you got a fast team, Scott, Rasmus Anderson, Vince Dunn, Ivan Proverov, Pavel Zaka, and Connor. It's a good team. I've got Jack Eichel, Karil Kaprizov, Kyle Connor, Joel Erick Seneck, Noah Hanofin, Vladislav Gavrikov, Dylan Strom, Troy Terry, Eric Chernak, and Jonas Siegent. dollar. And Peter has Miko Rantan, Mitch Marner, Anthony Sorrelli, Rope Hintz, Timo Meyer, Thomas Shabbat,

Brock Besser. He's got the only goalie, Aden Hill, and he's got Brandon Carlo, and Jake DeBrusk. I think Scott's the winner. I think it was going to be hard for me to lose once the order was randomized with McDavid at one. I love my picks after McDavid, but McDavid felt like a head start that was going to put me too far in front of the pack. Chris, our producer made a good point, though, that I will have the only goalie on the ice. So that's certainly impactful right there. That is a very, very important factor here. Scott and I can play pull goalie situations with our skaters here, too. Tilt the ice a little bit. See what happens. Yeah. Hey, but I have my defensive-minded centers out there for that. We've all got those. That's the beauty of us. This class was

rich of them. It's a great class. It's fun to look back. on it. Yeah, this was really fun, you guys. I hope everyone listening goes and checks out both articles, obviously Peter and Dom's, comparing this 2015 class to the legendary O3 class and whether it has surpassed it as the best of all time. And we'll do a companion piece to this one so you can go back and revisit the highlights. Thanks for listening today. We'll talk to you soon.