The Athletic Hockey Show - Real or no deal? The NHL's most surprising teams so far this season, Bernie Nicholls from flood lights to bright lights

Episode Date: November 30, 2022

Rob, Jesse and Mike take a look at some of the more surprising stories in the NHL including the upstart New Jersey Devils and Seattle Kraken, Jason Roberts and Bo Horvat goal scoring prowess, the surprisingly ordinary Florida Panthers and Calgary Flames and the shockingly good Winnipeg Jets.Plus the guys stick tap Alex Ovechkin's latest milestone, discuss Connor Hellebuyck's challenge to the NHL for safety and what Marco Rossi's demotion means for the Minnesota Wild.Bernie Nicholls who played 18 seasons in the NHL joins the boys to discuss his no holds bared new book, 'From Floodlights to Bright Lights' about his career, playing with Gretzky in LA, getting traded at the all-star game and so many more great stories from one of hockey's most exciting players from the 1990's. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the Athletic Hockey Show. What's going on, guys? Welcome to another Wednesday roundtable edition of the Athletic Hockey Show. I am Rob Pizzo from CBC Sports, back from the, what did you call it, Jesse? The Veneer Cup. Veneer Cup. When he said that, and then we started getting, we got an immediate slack from Jeff Domit. And then we did get some tweets.

I was like, I'm glad I wasn't posted because I would have said Veneer Cup to, The Vanier Cup, Rob Bezo, Jesse Granger in Vegas, Michael Russo in Minnesota. Yeah, you were close. The worst part is I was bragging about my Canadian university knowledge. Yeah, because I had just done that story on Logan Thompson. Apparently it did not translate to football. Yeah. And, you know, I was telling my wife about him because I was just listening to it.

And she says, oh, yeah, no Canadians are going to listen to a hockey show at all to call him out on that one. I'm like, yeah, I'm pretty sure. I'm very sure someone was going to say something. Tweets, but not as many as I thought. So. Ah, well, that's because it's a hockey show. People are like, who cares about Canadian football probably? But who cares?

I'm back. And boy, guys, we got a lot on this show here, jam-packed, including we're going to speak to former NHLer Bernie Nichols in the second half of the show. Just wrote a book from floodlights to bright lights. I couldn't put it down. What did you guys think? It was awesome. I mean, first of all, you got Tom Hanks on the back cover, uh, giving a perfect quote about it.

That's pretty cool, which just goes to show those old forum club days, like the people that you meet as a former king. Like I remember those games that I would cover at the LA Forum and you'd see Cuba Gooding Jr. And Jay Moore and all these celebrities there. And obviously, uh, you know, he's got a relationship with Tom Hanks. But he was such a great, great hockey player. We always talk about Hall of Fame snubs. His name always comes up. 70 goals, 150 points, uh, playing with Gretz,

and he's one of those guys, like I still think that you put him in today's error, you parachute him in as a rookie, he's going to perform in this era. Definitely. Yeah, you mentioned Tom Hanks on the back cover, Wayne Gretzky with the forward, with the forward. On the ice, off the ice, surrounded by awesome people. So many good stories to tell. He lived with a jockey, by the way. He lived with a jockey in L.A.

It's like the first couple years there. Yeah, I didn't know he was such a big horse race player. He loves the ponies. But the one thing that blew my mind, it's one of those, you know, we're so inundated with numbers and stats. And sometimes things in the past get like muddled in my brain. And he said, well, I wish I got to play more than 126 games with Wayne Gretzky. Yeah.

Had you asked me that? I would have thought he played way longer with Gretz. And then that trade to the Rangers happened way earlier than it did in my head. You know, he was such a lifelong, you know, L.A. King that I thought he was there a lot more with Gretzky. but man, that year that they were together, 150 points is pretty bananas. Imagine having the guts to take a guy that's a year and a half off scoring 70 and 150

next to Gretzky, he'd say, hey, we're going to trade you. Like, you think that would happen in today's day and age? No, he'd get a $10 million contract. Almost worked too. Almost worked. All right, guys.

Well, actually, we're probably going to mention the name Gretzky off our first topic. We've got a lot to go through. And we're going to play a game a little bit later on too, which our producer Jeff Donne met accurately called real or no I'm going to start that one over again. Real or no deal. We're going to see teams that are doing really well early on if it's for real or are they going to fall back to Earth. But before we do, Alexander O'Betchkin, every time he scores a goal, we're at that point now where history

is made. Scored two last night in Vancouver. And let me quickly go through what those two goals meant. He's now seven away from 800. Of course, only Gretzky and Hau have 800 goals. It was the 402nd and 403rd career road goals, which passes Wayne Gretzky for the most in NHL history. It was his 135th game opening goal of his career, tying Yarmier-Yager for the most in NHL history, and his 65th game opener on the road tying Brett Hall for the most ever in NHL history. Between the game 700 and 800. It looks like he's going to hit it faster than Gretzky and how did. I don't know what other things we can say.

I don't care if he retires right now, in my opinion, he is the greatest pure goal scorer this game has ever seen. Agree or disagree. Jesse will start with him. Yeah, totally agree. He's doing it in an era that's harder to score. And the thing that stood out to me is he's still a hundred behind Gretzky and he passed him in road goals.

Like how, like was Gretzky's home away split just ridiculous? Like that doesn't even seem mathematically possible. Gretzky clearly liked playing in front of the home crowd. Yeah, the home scorer is anytime a puck deflected off Curry, they just gave it a Gretzky. So yeah, if it came off Gretzky's stick remotely close to it going in the net, it's going to him. Oh, yeah. I mean, actually, you do wonder like back then with replays, like how many like stats would need to be adjusted that they couldn't see. Like here you could tell if it brushes off a guy's pant, you're giving him the goal.

Like, I don't know what it was like back then. Um, you know, um, first of all, I was watching that game until I switched to the Seattle game because that was something to be seen last night. Uh, goals of plenty. Uh, and somehow Martin Jones who gave up eight won it. Um, but, uh, you know, they paned at one point when, when Ovechkin scored his second goal to Boudreau on the bench, who obviously coached, uh, coached, uh, coached, uh, Ovechkin. And one, he had that look of like, I've seen that before and two, he had the look of indigestion. Like, he just like, come on. can you stop haunting me years after I coached him because they have such a good relationship still to this day. But he's unbelievable. And every time I watch, like, see all these records that he breaks, I flash back one of my really prized pictures that I have. It was taken by Getty. And it's like the only thing that I have blown up in my house is like a memorabilia of my career.

2004, I'm covering the Stanley Cup final, Tampa Bay versus Calgary. And, you know, they always bring the top prospects into the Stanley Cup final to meet with the with the with the national media and we're in this ballroom at what's now the uh it used to be called the marriott water side now i think it's called the water street we're in this ballroom and there is a young doesn't speak any english alex oveskin wearing this blue tie and me over his shoulder interviewing him in this scrum as he's sitting at a ballroom table and one how young he is but two how young i am and skinnier um and uh i mean it's it's honestly i think back to that like this is what 18 years years ago and just this young pimple-faced kid that's sitting there doesn't know any English,

hasn't played a national hockey league game yet. And now you look years later at all the records that he has broken and just to be able to cover him throughout these years. And weird stories where, again, the Florida Panthers, the year before tried to draft him in like the seventh, eighth, ninth rounds because of the leap year rule and saying, trying to claim that he was like, should have been eligible to be drafted in the 2003 draft and not four. Like all those things that have happened to him since and the numbers that he is going to be and the fact that he will break Gretzky's goal record, health willing. I just think it's an amazing career.

And I think that we're all at the end of all of our lucky careers covering this sport. It's just going to be so excited that we got to cover this guy. I got to cover one of the coolest stories in hockey history in the Golden Knights inaugural season. Yep. And it ended. And everyone, like obviously Vegas was. devastated, but I'll never forget watching OVy skate around the ice with the cup. He finally did it.

And then him coming off the eye. And like, he would not let go of the cup. Like after everyone got their turn with it, he grabbed it again and would not let go of it. I remember they're like, Ovi, you have to do the press conference. And they bring him in and he still got his skates on. And he comes walking into the press conference room with the cup, still in his hand. He walks up, up, you're like, you have to take your skates off to get up on the stage. So he sets the cup down, sits next to it, takes his skates off with the cup next to him, goes up on the presser, sets it next to him and keeps talking like, again, I haven't been covering the sport nearly as long as you, but when I retire from this profession, that will be one of the moments that I never forget.

Do you guys remember, I mean, the way that he, and I think a big reason for that emotion besides just obviously the pain that it takes to win a cup is just the way that he really did have to change his game. Like early in his career, when he was scoring 65, 60 goals, 55 goals, he never thought really about the defensive side of the puck. He was just a pure goal score. remember the one year he had 51 goals and he was like minus 40 um you know like like there's just I mean that which is by the way almost impossible to do um you know he I think that was just like the realization like that that you know it just showed you how much he wanted to win right he had

to change the way that he played early in his career and and he did you know so much is made about his longevity as I mentioned between goals 700 and 800 it took Wayne Gretzky 231 games to score 100 goals. It took Gordihow 256 games to score that 100 goals. Well, Vetchkins at 155. That's almost a season faster. At a point of your career when you should be visibly slowing down, you know, usually at this point in people's careers, even elite goal scores at this point are happy with that 20 goal season, you know, are happy with, he is still right up there. And to answer your question, Jesse, Wayne Gretzky He played one more game at home than he did on the road. He had 492 home goals, 402 away goals.

And just real quick, I mean, right now he's got 793 goals, right? Three shortened seasons in his career, right? Yeah. He had the 2012-13 shortened season. He had the pandemic interrupted season and then the pandemic delayed season. I mean, three short and seasons, what would he be at right now without that? I mean, it's just, it really, what a remarkable, remarkable guy, remarkable career. It's just amazing.

And he just looks like he has so much fun scoring goals, no matter how many. Every time he scores, all 793, he's got a big smile on his face. All right, moving on from OV. Matthew Kachuk was back in Calgary last night. First, not the first time playing the flames, but the first time in Calgary. They go to commercial break, video tribute, standing ovation. I have a lot of fond memories, blah, blah, blah. Not shocking, but I want your opinions, guys.

When does someone deserve that treatment? Is six seasons enough to, six seasons and asking to leave, essentially, a point where they should do the big tribute? Russo. I think so. I mean, look, they gave a tribute to Nick Bukstad the other day here, right? And he played on and off, like, you know, a couple one. Like, you know, it's just like ever since Jason Pommitville went to Buffalo and they didn't give him a tribute and they got eviscerated by the local media and the fans. It's like, you know, you play, I mean, they gave Victor Rask a tribute here in Minnesota.

I mean, all of this doesn't make it right in my opinion. I agree. I'm not a fan of it. I mean, Matthew Chuck in that case, first round pick. He goes there. He's, he was a stud there. You know, to me, he deserved a tribute just for scoring that big goal. to a game before and doing the whole ear thing to the crowd. So like to like to me, I just,

I think that he, you know, to me, if Matthew Kuchuck doesn't get a tribute in at the Saddle Dome, uh, Calgary's probably answering questions today. But I agree. There are certain times that it's just to me hilarious, you know, I mean, guy plays a minute and wasn't even liked by the fans or whatever. And he gets a, you know, tribute just to basically do the right thing and be politically correct. I think it gets a little overboard. It's so funny for me to hear Rob saying, like he only played six seasons there. How is he getting a tribute?

The Golden Knights have given tributes to literally every player who's ever caught. Brad Hunt was a healthy scratch. 97% of it. I think he played like 20 games for the Golden Knights. And they gave him a tribute video when he came back to Vegas. I covered Brad Hunt. What is that ridiculous? Bradd deserves a tribute video everywhere he goes.

Brad Hunt is the most amazing human being on Earth, but he put like 20 games. Yeah, I mean, maybe I'm just like it's, I honestly thought it was just the Golden Knights, but apparently, apparently Michael is saying it's the wild too. To me, a guy who played six seasons, he had a hundred point season. Like, for sure he's getting a tribute. I didn't think he wasn't going to get one. I'm saying we got to put a stop to this.

I'm saying to be a tribute is someone plays 15 seasons with a team and, you know, they trade him because it's his last chance to win a cup and he comes about that Ray Bork type situation. I feel like all the names you guys just mentioned, let's be, do they deserve video tributes? Do they deserve, he got a standing ovation. I'll be the Grinch. Christmas is coming up. I'm the Grinch of the group. That's fine.

I think the video tribute thing is ridiculous. I think, stop it. Stop it. This is, he asked to leave. He was there six seasons. Maybe put just a welcome back on the board so everyone has their chance if they want to boo or clap. But we're putting together tribute videos here, guys. Come on.

This is Lifetime Achievement Awards. I'm watching it going, all right, stop it. Anyways, you guys both agree. Hey, I'm supposed to be the old grinch of this show, not you, by the way. I'm getting there, Roos. I'm right up there with you. I'm the crumudgeon. One more thing before we get to our real or no deal.

Tempe City Council approves a coyote's proposed arena with a 7-0 vote. This happened yesterday. The choice is now going to be up to the residence. in Tempe in a local referendum. That's going to be held on May 18. So, guys, it looks like the mullet might be getting cut off, even though they're going to be there through at least 24, 25 season. What do you think about this?

Jesse? Get them out of that building. Like, we had Daly on last week, and he said, like, yeah, it's been great. The reviews have been great. And it is. Like, it's been good for what it is, but it's also not an NHL arena. And there are guys getting dressed behind curtains. So get them the hell out of that building.

as fast as possible. Yeah, I agree. I mean, you know, look, there's a reason why hockey writers don't ever really go after the Arizona Coyotes to leave. And that's because we all want to visit there in the middle of our hockey seasons, especially those of us that cover games in Frigid Minnesota. Like, I love going to Arizona. And I'm excited that they're going to get a building.

And I'm excited that they're staying and shoot me for that. And again, I'm the old crotchety writer, but I want to, but I want to be there. You know, it's funny. Arizona was just here. I'm doing a bunch of stuff. with Arizona. I'm actually going there for a couple games against Buffalo, Montreal here in a couple weeks. Their annex is about to be built. It's going to be tight, but they're going to have their locker room facilities. Same thing with the visitors' rooms. It was fascinating talking to the

Winnipeg Jets who all played their first games there and, you know, talking to guys like Nate Schmidt and Brendan Dillon and how small the rink feels because of how compact it is. It's interesting. I mean, you know, like they almost feel like it's just you're in a shrinking situation. there. You know, Nate was saying even flipping a puck out of the zone, you feel you're going to hit the roof. Like a junior hockey field, right? Like a barn kind of thing. And Buksted, you know, Bukestead, you know, I talked to him the other day. He obviously plays there. And, you know, so far he loves it. I mean, you know, they've only played four games there so far. But, but, you know, there's something about this as a novelty act to be playing games there. But I think we all

understand that there's no way that this can work long term. And it's just a matter of time. And we'll see made 16th what the what the what the what the power of the people say we'll obviously keep you up to date on that uh one more thing i lied before we get to real or no deal uh and russo alluded to this earlier uh the cracking and the kings got into a time machine last night went back to 1985 a nine eight Seattle final um six goals in the first period 12 in the first 30 minutes 17 overall the six goals uh in the six tying goals in the game tied an NHL record. The 12 goals in the first 30 minutes was just one away from the record. And there were 12 different goal scorers in this game. And Seattle's now won six in a row. That was just

a crazy hockey game. In a building that's usually really tight. Like they play one-nothing two-one games there even today. Not just back in the, you know, in the old days. There's just that building, for some reason, at least when I cover games there, it's always just the most blah games ever. And there just doesn't feel like a lot of room. And there it was like old time hockey with two goalies that couldn't stop, three goalies that couldn't stop a beach ball. But, you know, by the way, this came one day after I almost traded for Martin Jones in my fantasy league.

So I don't think I wasn't sending a couple texts last night to the person that I almost traded and acquired him from. And you wouldn't believe how bad this trade was going to be. Like I was going to give up Jake Gensel in this move. That's how bad my goaltending is right now. Yeah, you leave me right into the goaltending. You know that's where I'm going with this, Rob. shocking.

My God. I think Martin Jones had the highest save percentage in the game at $750. And I tweeted this stat out last night. It is absolutely hilarious to me. Martin Jones is having the best season of, like, since his glory days in San Jose. The poor guy in 17 games, he's made 382 saves to build up this 5.1 goal saved above expected. He's 10th in the NHL. He worked seven, he worked two months to get to 5.1 goals saved above

expected. Last night, he was negative 3.78 goals above expected. He drops from 10th in the league to 28th in the league for one bad game just completely. That he won, that he won. Just completely wrecks his entire season. He goes from 5.1 all the way down to 1.3.2. And to me, the bigger point in all of this is it really shows how impressive these goalies that at the top of at the end of the season, the guys at the top of this stat because one game can absolutely crater your season. If you're a goal score and you're 11th in the league and goal scored, 10th in the league and goal scored, and you have the worst game of your career, tomorrow you wake up and you're still 11th in the league and goals scored and it doesn't matter whatsoever.

These goalies to be like the level of consistency, the elite goalies show is far beyond what any position is doing. And that's my little goalie rant for the day. Imagine if you bet the under in that game. Somebody texted that to me right away last night. Yeah, like 1985. That was a regular game in 2022. Not so much. All right, guys, we're going to play a game.

Real or no deal. And we're playing it now because American Thanksgiving, and I say American Thanksgiving because I'm Canadian based in Canada, is kind of that point where I think you can really start to say, okay, we got to figure out if this is the real deal. So I'm going to bring up a few different teams, teams that are doing well, teams that aren't. And you guys have to say, they're real or no deal. They're going to fall back to Earth, okay?

And we're going to start with the New Jersey Devils, 19 and 4 in their first 23 games, currently second in the NHL all without any player in the top 15 in scoring. Jack Hughes is sitting in 16th. So Russo will start with you, real or no deal? Real. They are absolutely real. I think we talked to Tom Fitzgerald, what, a couple weeks ago. about he's sure and, you know, his belief that he could become next Patrice Bergeron, Jack Hughes.

There's so many guys, Hesper Bratt, Dougie Hamilton playing great. You know, to me, outstanding coaching. I know Lindy Ruff better than most coaches that I know in the league. I think they're absolutely a legit team, and we're starting to see them beat really, really, really good teams on, you know, in every given night status. Yeah, I'm going real too. You look at their underlying numbers, and they are the best team in the league. by a mile.

Like you, you look at some of these graphs that show like expected goals share. And it's, the rest of the league is in this bunch. And like the, the, the,

the, the, the aves and the, in the Bruins are kind of the top of the thing. And then the devils are almost off the entire graph because they're just dominating. To me,

like, Russo mentions the scoring and, and the forwards have been great. To me, Jonas Siegenthaller is just playing elite hockey on the back end for them. Like, that defense, you, you think of Dougie Hamilton,

Ryan Graves, maybe John Marino, but to me, Jonas Seigentthalor, He leads the team in wins above replacement, goals above replacement. That's all defensive work. He's not scoring a bunch of goals. I've been so impressed with the devil's shot suppression and just the way that, like,

I think that's a young fast team you expect them to score goals. The way they've defended is why I'm saying they're real. A couple things. One, you know who loves the devils the most? Gamblers. A $100 better is up $1,27. That's the most profitable team in the NHL right now. You got to love the two games into the season.

the fans were chanting fire, Lindy. And I don't know if you heard the chant on Saturday, guys. Sorry, Lindy. At least they're polite and apologize. And remember, they're riding that 10-game road winning streak, just two away from the NHL record. All right, team number two guys, the win of the hanged checks. Where do you get all these gambling stats?

That's what I want to know. That's a great stat, the $100 better one. Yep, there's a site called, I don't know if I'm allowed to promote other sites, but you ask covers.com. And you can tell you every single team. Of course, Jesse knows it. and they are tops in the league for the most profitable team because of the odds. There you go.

So covers.com getting a free plug. Can I just bring up one other thing on this on why don't gamble? By the way, this was supposed to be our short segment. So the other day I'm at the Four Seasons Hotel here in Minnesota and the Golden State Warriors are checking in. Okay. It's like late at night. They're checking in.

I come back about 12.30.1 a.m. And a couple of the guys, I'm not going to say who come rolling out of a out of a, out of out of a suburban to go in the hotel. And I just remember thinking myself, if I bet sports, I'd probably put everything on their undersets and all these, you know, the prop bet tibberwolves and what happens the next day? What do you think happens? All the guys that I saw out had like their career best games.

It just shows you it's like, you know, you just, you can never, there's no rhyme or reason to sports gambling. It's why I would never do it. It's just like, if I had seen that, I would have gone all this money against them. And then they have huge games. As I was told by a fellow gambler, last time I was in Vegas, you know the marbled in the bathrooms here is real, right? So, yeah, they don't, they're not, they're not, their sucker bets for a reason.

Winnipeg Jets, guys, Rick Bonas brought in. It seems as though the attitude around this team is completely different this year. They're second in the central. Josh Morris talk. Connor Halibach, getting Vezna talk. Real or no deal? Jesse, we'll start with you on this one. I'm going to say no deal on the Jets.

I brought up expected goal share with the devils. I'm going to bring that up a lot in this segment. I think it's the best indicator of how teams are controlling play and maybe whether they're getting lucky or not. The Jets are 23rd in the league and expected goal share. Not great. They've given up the 10th most high danger chances of any team in the league. They're getting bailed out by a superstar goalie.

I don't know how long Connor Hella Buck can carry him. He's carried him to this point. We see this happen early in seasons and eventually some goals go in and the goaltending numbers kind of come back to the mean. I don't think the Jets are one of the best team. And I don't think they're terrible, but I don't think they're, they're as good as their record shows. Yeah, I would agree. You know, plus I saw them recently and they lost six one to Minnesota who's been, you know, really feeble all season long, especially at home.

But in between those losses, they've beat the crap out of Colorado last night. They've beaten the Dallas Stars, who's been the best team in the division consistently from the beginning. They beat the Carolina hurricanes. So, like, there are these, like, you know, evidence lately that. that they're actually legit, but I'm going to go no deal for the same very reason. I mean, that game, that first period against Minnesota, Conner Hellebuck might have been the best player on the ice. And they still lost 6-1 because he just couldn't do it for the rest of the game. And so, you know, it could have been one of those nights for the Jets. They still got some

absolute studs on that team with, you know, guys like Kyle Connor, who's starting to really heat up now. Wheeler playing great, maybe the pressure off having the sea taken away, shifely playing well. but I still, you know, have trouble buying it. But I will say there's, look, Josh Morrissey's having an unbelievable year. Neil Pionk has added a ton to that team. But I still, there's just something about them that I just don't fully trust. But you know what? They've made us, they've made me look stupid in the past.

All I'm going to say is this. Paul Maurice said this line about 57 times during his press conference when he left that team. They need a new voice. And maybe this is the new voice. So we'll have to wait and see on that one. Number three, Jesse, I think you know we're starting with you on this one. The Vegas Golden Knights, you might be low afraid to jinx it after what we saw last year. 17, 6 and 1 first in the Pacific, real or no deal?

I mean, I think they're real and I think it's easy. I mean, this team, yes, they missed the playoffs last year, but you look at all the injuries they had. This team has consistently been in the playoffs, been on deep runs. They have a bad year with a bunch of injuries. Now they're healthy again and all of a sudden they look like a contender again. I don't know if they're quite on the level of Colorado, Tampa Bay, those top teams. I think the goaltending is still the biggest issue. They started off the season phenomenally.

And I think this defense, the Bruce Cassidy, has them running, has made things very easy on the goalies. And they've gotten the most out of Logan Thompson and Aden Hill. I think you saw that last year in Boston, what he did with Olmark and what the Bruins were able to accomplish with less than stellar goalies. But they haven't been as good lately. And the record has kind of shown it. They've fallen off a little bit. I think the goaltending is the final answer. They've got superstar forwards.

Their top line, Stevenson, Stone, and Eichel is statistically the best line in hockey. I'd argue it's one of the top three lines in hockey when you just look at the players on the ice. Their blue line is incredible. They've got great top four. Their bottom pair is as good as it gets in the league. It's the goaltending. Can you win a Stanley Cup with Logan Thompson and Aidan Hill in net? So far, they've been good.

They've shown some cracks. I'm going to go real, but we're not sure if this is a Stanley Cup. Cup contender yet, but they're a legit, really good team in the league. Yeah, the avalanche won a cup with Darcy Kemper and that. And I just think if you have the puck, that's the key. And, you know, at least as of a couple weeks ago, as you mentioned, they've taken a step back. There was no better team protecting the middle of the ice defensively, no better team, middle of the ice offensively. And a wise man told me that. His name was Jesse Granger. So, you know, I just, I just, I like them a lot. I think that you can win if they continue to have the puck with Logan Thompson.

And they have a great second line too. I mean, that goal that William Carlson scored that backhanded the other night's awesome. My favorite player in the league might be on that team in Jonathan March. So I like them a lot. I think that they're good as long as Logan Thompson doesn't crack. Next up, team we talked about a little bit earlier, the Seattle Cracking. We talked about Martin Jones. The numbers taking a hit in last night's game.

But one number I want to bring up last year, all of last year, he had 12 wins. This year already, he has 12 wins. Seattle Cracken, real or no deal? Russo. I think they're real if they get goal ten, and that's the biggest thing. Martin Jones is he could become Martin Jones again, and Martin Jones statistically has been one of the worst goalies in the league for the last several years. But I like everything I'm seeing from them,

Benares is going to be an absolute stud. I love what they're doing with Shane Wright right now in the minors, and he's going to come up and be a better player forward, or they'll just assign him to the world juniors and maybe bring him back. But they're coached really well. I think the people that love to make fun of Dave Haxdahl because of his time in Philadelphia or as maybe stern, you know, kind of vanilla way sometimes with the media, I think is totally overblown and disrespectful. I absolutely like that team right now.

So for me, this is the hardest one to answer because I don't know, like real or no deal. Like, I think this is a playoff team. I think they're going to be one of the teams to get into the playoffs in the Pacific Division. I think they're one of the top four teams in that division. I don't think they're the second best team in the division, and I don't think they're going to do much in the playoffs. I think this team, they kind of remind me a little bit of the first year golden nights where they overwhelm teams with four lines. Their top six is not great, but their bottom six is amongst the best in the league. They play their asses off. They four checks so well.

They're one of the hardest playing teams that I see every night. But as Michael mentioned, the goaltending, I remember. So our producer, Jeff, sent this to us yesterday before the nine to eight game. and I wrote it down in my notes, they're going to have regression from goaltending. If only we would have recorded it yesterday, I would look like a genius. But now I'm saying it the day after Jones gives up eight goals,

so it looks like obvious. Martin Jones isn't good. Martin Jones has had a good season so far. He's not good. Philip Grubauer has been awful. Last year in the limited time he's played this year, he's been awful. I just don't think the goaltending can keep it up.

I think this is a good enough team to make the playoffs, even with below average goaltending. But right now they're getting a bunch of, I love average goaltending, and I don't think that's going to happen for the entire season. Yeah. And I do like what Seattle's building. I like the way they play. Their style is a nightmare to go against.

I think teams every night, they see that team on their schedule and they say, great, this team's going to hound us the entire game. They're a nightmare to play against. I just don't know if they have enough scoring talent despite scoring nine last night to make up for the goaltending. And I think, by the way, I just think this, you know, has to be gratifying for Ron Francis and everybody in Seattle because they had the same roles as the Vegas goals. Knights, but we as we all know had very different rules in the Vegas Golden Knights.

GMs around the league learned their lesson. They weren't able to make one trade where Vegas made like a thousand. And yet here they are. They look like they're building something that's sustainable for a long time. And whether or not they get there over the hump this year, doesn't matter. It looks like that the future is going to be bright in Seattle. For sure. All right. This next one's kind of a combo because the Panthers and Flames were all the talk in the offseason. And as we sit right now, the Panthers are too. two points out of the wildcard spot and the flames are clinging to that second wildcard spot. So I'll phrase it like this. The Panthers and Flames not making the playoffs real or no

deal. Jesse? I think they both make the playoffs. Like I said, I think Calgary is, I think Seattle's due for some regression. I do think Calgary ends up getting it. The Pacific's the weakest division in hockey. So I think the flames have a little easier path to get there than the Panthers do. I think the Panthers are a much better team. I keep bringing up expected goal. share. The Panthers are third in the league and expected goal share. They have controlled games. When you look at their underlying numbers, they deserve a lot better than they've gotten in the results. The flames are not nearly as good in that category. They haven't looked as good. I think because they're in a weak Pacific, I think they have a better chance than Florida just because

Florida is in a really tough division. But I think the Panthers are a much better team. In the end, I think they both end up in the playoffs. I think when you make trades like this and you change the makeup of your team, you're not going to be, you can't just pick up and be a hundred, 10 point team like you were the last year, even if you stay kind of even in the overall talent. I think it takes some time. And as we've learned from like Tampa Bay and Colorado and other teams, we've seen those teams have great regular seasons and not win in the postseason. And then we've seen Tampa Bay come in as a three seed and just stomp everyone in the playoffs.

I think the flames and the Panthers could be teams that do eventually find their stride and maybe they get into the playoffs as a three or four seed. And that's when things start clicking and they can really, really do some damage there. I think these are good teams. Yeah, and Florida usually has a hot, hot second half of the season. And I don't think any year, they got to get Bob's got to get his act together. Calgary is the team that concerns me, though. Like, I don't think it says, like unless Seattle craters, you know, Vegas, Seattle, L.A.

might be the top three, which are automatic making the playoffs. So then now you're fighting for a wild card spot. I think the Oilers are going to make it. I got to think the blues are going to figure out a way to make it. And so right there that might take Calgary right out of it. And then you got the wild and Nashville that should be at least on the bubble there for the rest of the year. So I think I'd be a little concerned if I was Calgary. And last one before we go to break, guys, Jason Robertson and Bo Horvatt.

Real. Top two. All right. All right. All right. Yeah. Top two right now. 19 goals of Robertson, 17 for Horvatt, battling for that, you know, Rocket Richard Richard

trophy. And there are some other players, Connor McDavid, in there as well. But let's just talk about these two, battling for. the Rocket Richard Richard Trophy at the end of the year. Is that real or no deal? Russo, I think he just gave us your answer. Yeah, I mean, I do think, you know, I think Corvatt just based on the team that he's playing on, their struggles might take a step back, you know, but to me, Robertson is just a stud. And he gets a volume of shots. He's top 10 in shots on goal. He's obviously leading the league in goals. I think what's impressive is he's doing this after a little contract

dispute that made him a little late for training camp, and yet it didn't push him back at all. I think people that did, you know, we talked gambling before. I bet you that people that that did the over under prop bets for futures at the beginning of the year did is under what 32 and a half, 33 and a half goals based on his slow arrival to training camp. And a real fun story, by the way, during his Calderick trophy run with Carrel Capricef where Capricef ended, wound up winning it. It was basically a one two race and Capricef was near unanimous for number one. Saad and I did a really cool story comparing and contrasting. their Sada or Dallas Stars writer or illustrious Dallas Stars writer did this compare and contrast the two of them during that race.

And we both suspect that they'll be in the All-Star game for the respective teams. And we're going to do part two of that. Who's better? Capriza versus Robertson. I thought it'd be funny if I took Robertson's better and he took Capricisat's better and just really infuriated our fan bases. But Robertson, just watching these games lately, he is absolutely legit. And him on that line with Rupé Hintz is absolutely legit.

and, of course, the great pro that Joe Pavelsky is. Yeah, I mean, Robertson is a superstar. Like, I think we've gotten to the point where, like, he is one of the best goals scores in the NHL. He's on pace for 68. I don't think he gets to 68, but I think he's absolutely right there at the end of the season for the Rocket Richard. And the crazy thing, like, I always look at shooting percentage when it comes to this.

He's shooting 19.6%. That's really high. Last year, he shot 18.6. So he's kind of right there. I mean, he's shooting a lot. more, as Russo said, his volume is up. He's not shooting the lights out compared to what he has done in the NHL prior to now. So I think he can keep this pace. Maybe not 68. It'll it'll dip down a little bit, but I expect him over 50. And then Bo Horvatt, not quite as much. I mean,

Bo Horvett, he's shooting 22.4%. Almost one out of every four shots he gets on net is going in right now. I highly doubt that continues. I don't think, as as Russo mentioned, the team around him is not as good. I don't think he's going to get the volume of high danger chances that Robertson's going to get. His career shooting percentage is 16%, which is very good. That's well above league average. But I don't think he's going to make one out of every four shots on goal into a goal for the rest of the season. So I think Horvatt is a much bigger candidate to regress, but he's still going to score a bunch of goals. Well, even if Robertson does keep up this pace and score 68 goals, that still wouldn't be as much as our next guest scored in one season back in 1988, 88, 89.

Nichols will be joining us to talk his book and his career and a whole lot more right after the break. So don't go anywhere. Well, guys, among the three of us, I'm pretty sure we've probably read like a million hockey books. I don't know what you guys. My shelves are just full of hockey books. We get them sent to us. We interview authors. Some of them are very, very good. Some of them are very, very bad. In my opinion, a bad hockey book is bad for two reasons. One, it's too safe, to vanilla. You can tell it's made just so they can look good. And number two, there's just not enough stories. I want to hear hockey stories. I want to hear things that we wouldn't ordinarily get just by watching hockey. Well, Bernie Nichols' new book from floodlights to bright lights

is not one of those bad books. I'm not going to say this just because he's on the line and about to come on as a guest. I couldn't put this book down. I really, really enjoyed it. And Bernie Nichols joins us on the athletic hockey show. How are you, Bernie? I'm doing great, guys. How are you guys doing? We're doing great. Thanks so much for coming on. We really appreciate it. Like I said, for me, stories and things we wouldn't know are what make a book great. And from shadow boxing with Muhammad Ali to live in the L.A. lifestyle and selling weed and hookers, this book has literally everything. And I'm wondering, like when you sat down to write this book, when you said, I want to put, you know, my life onto paper, did you go in consciously saying, you know what? No holds barred. I'm not throwing caution in the window. I'm going to go out and just say what I'm going to say and whatever happens, happens, and people get pissed off, so what? Yeah, I think that's pretty much it.

You know, if you're going to do it, you got to do it right. And like you said, a lot of times it's the stories that you hear from other players or something like that that you normally wouldn't hear about. I think that's what makes for a better read than playing a safe. Bernie, you know, just seeing you right now on the car in the cold Ontario winter here. Tell us about your life now, other than doing the book tour, which I know has been expansive here. What do you do now? Well, I still do a lot of charity hockey. I like to. The fall time, I hunt pretty much every day. I'm fortunate to have a girl now that likes to

hunt with me. So we've been in the deer stand every day pretty much since deer season open. And so my passion had always been that after I retired. I grew up hunting right with my dad and just loved it. Obviously, when I turned pro, I was gone for a long time. I missed out on that. So kind of making it up now. And so do a lot of that, do a lot of golf. I play golf.

Like we play golf almost every day in the summertime. And like I said, still love skating, still love doing events. I've done Maryland Muse event, charity event every year. Gretz, I did Wayne's until he stopped doing it. So I love doing that. As Rob mentioned, this book, you were kind of no holds barred on just telling a lot of great stories. During the writing process, during the editing process, what was the story that maybe you weren't sure you wanted to put in the book, but decided to? I feel like there might have been some tough decisions.

Yeah, not really. You know, probably the tragedy one with my son was tough, but I thought it had to be told as well. You know, that was a tough time. You know, there's a lot of times in a player's career in any sport that they could be going through tough times and people don't know about it, right? And I've always said, and I don't mean this, well, I don't know, reporters aren't qualified to write about a player at times because they really don't know, right? Like, I can have the worst game of the year. Someone's writing how bad I was, but they don't know why, right? Like, a lot of times players play injured and the reporters don't really know about it,

but they're saying how much he sucked that day or, you know, or they could have family problems at home. And I had that, and that was difficult time to go through, but you get through it and, you know, hopefully you come out better at the other end. But that's probably the tough part. You know, the stories, there was a couple stories I wanted to tell. But I went through the athletes to say, hey, should I put this in or not? You know, we opted not to.

So, but for the most part, the stories that the other athletes told, right? Like, my problem is, is that I don't remember a whole lot through concussions of my past. So getting people to help with it, I think. you know, because once they start bringing it up, then I'll remember it, right? So, but I think for the most part, there wasn't really much I shy it away from or didn't want to talk about. You know, Bernie, you talked about reporters not necessarily knowing what's going on in your life. And that's the one thing for me with this book really opened the eyes. I think it will to a lot of people to the two sides of Bernie, of Bernie Nichols.

You know, you talked about how people see the big smile on your face and you're having a good time. and they think that means you're not intense. You also mentioned the Gretzky camp. I know this is a podcast, but if you look behind me, I was at the camp and you were on my team. And to this day, when people say to me,

which one of the pros still really wanted to win? Without the hesitation, I say Bernie Nichols. Because I thought you were the nicest guy in the world. But when that puck dropped, it was game seven of the Stanley Cup final. Was it important for you in the book to kind of let people know that,

you know, I'm having a good time. Hockey's fun. I'm smiling, but man, did I ever want to win? Yeah, I was criticized a lot because of that, right? And I say to this day, even when I go skate today, and you'll remember when we played together, I still love playing the game.

I'm still a kid with the game. When I put my skates on, if I go out with anybody, I still just love to play. And I think when I first term pro, people see me with a smile on my face. I'm tapping goal. talking to them, talking to players. But no one wanted to win more than I did.

No one competed harder than I did. And I'd play through anything. I'd played with broken bones. I had my job wired. And I'm going to play and I'm going to compete. And no one, I hate losing if I'm playing cards against my loved one. You know what I mean? Like I don't want to lose it at anything.

But when I'm on the ice sometimes, people may have read me the wrong way. But I still love to compete. No matter what I do, I want to win at it. And I just, I don't think, I don't think athletes will ever lose that, the competitiveness, right? So I've always had that. And sometimes people might have thought I was in the series as it was. Bernie, you know, drafted in 1980, you're put on a team with probably an incredible mentor, Marcel Dion. own. You know, and just reading the book and the forward by Wayne Gretzky, he talked about how

excited when he was brought to L.A., getting a play with you with the fancy purple suits and the convertibles. And I'm just curious, tell me about those early years in L.A. Like, how did you go from a town of 75 people to being, you know, Hollywood? I mean, you know, it just felt like you really entrenched into that lifestyle. Yeah. I think it's really tough. right, like especially growing up in such a small town. We're used to playing outside, right? Frozen ponds, ice rinks made, and 75 people. Then you go to 10 million people, right?

And palm trees, you know, the ocean, Hollywood Park. But it's something I embraced. I loved it. It doesn't take long, right? Like people always thought the warm weather climate, cities were not a place to play hockey, but you'll find real fast they are. Like, I remember different times in Edmonton after a game, it's minus 40. You know, you're starting, you're chalked out in the dressing room and letting

run for 20 minutes before you even be tempted to go outside. California, it was 70 degrees. You're coming out after a game. It's so much better than minus 40, you know, but then you get an opportunity to play with a guy like Mars held you on, right? like Mars was old school. Things have changed so much now. There was no working out back then, right?

There was no staying out later and doing extra. Mars wasn't that kind of a guy, but this is the talent he had, right? Like the gift that he had scored. He scored over 700 goals in the NHL, right? So as a skilled player, it's fun to watch, right? You need someone to watch to see how they perform every night. For me, it was Marcel, obviously before Gretz got there, but he was a great guy for me to watch and to learn from.

Bernie, you mentioned you grew up playing outdoor games. I'd like to ask you about one that was a little different. In 1991, the first outdoor game in NHL history outside at Caesar's Palace here in Las Vegas. I'm so fascinated by that game because there's so many, the ice almost melted before the game. There's so many crazy things that happened, the locusts on the ice. Do you have a story from that game that stands out to you? You know what? Obviously very fortunate, right?

We were the first ones to have the outdoor games. And I've said that like now, right? Like I think especially the Canadian boys, right? Because they grew up like that. So you see the outdoor games now and players just love to play in them because that's how we were brought up, right? Playing outdoors. For me, I was with New York at the time, right?

Because I was traded playing the Kings. There was 10,000 people there. It did. It got warm in the daytime and I think the tarp kind of dropped and the ice was bad. But if you can just picture walking outside through the big buildings, right, to get to the rank. You got the big buildings of Las Vegas and the warm weather. So to me it was really cool to play in it. It was so much fun. I forget how if we won or lost, but just have an opportunity.

We're playing against the Kings, my former team, Gretzky. So that was really pretty cool. Bernie, it takes a lot for me to actually laugh out loud while I'm reading a book. But when you start talking about how you were such a prankster with your teammates, I was dying. I don't want to give too much away because we want people to read the book. But, you know, hiding in showers, getting people when they're at their most vulnerable, a.k.a. sitting on the toilet.

I was dying. But that's, I've heard other people say that about you. So it wasn't too much of a surprise. But seeing as you're in the prankster Hall of Fame, who else that you played with in your long-stoyed career, would you put in that prankster Hall of Fame? Someone who you had to be on your toes around, otherwise they were going to get you.

Well, I thought, and you probably read it in the book, the prank I pulled in training camp, I thought that was the best ever until I heard Jeremy Roanings. I'm sure you guys have heard that one. When he had these kids set up, in I think Las Vegas and talked about a prank that went bad. That one went bad. Like, as much as someone could have had a heart attack in mine,

someone should have died in his. So, but you know what, Larry Playfair, I was talking to Tom Laidlaw yesterday. Tommy's pretty good. But for the most part, everywhere I went, I kind of had everybody on their toes. something I just enjoyed to do. I still do it to this day.

My fiancé sit beside me here. I was in the shower waiting for her one day, kind of caught her a little off guard. And I love it when it happens to me, right? Because even though it scares the hell of you at first, I just started laughing, right? Because it's something that I would do. So, like I got Marcel Young one time.

Like you said, he's on the toilet. He ended up flat in his ass. jumped off the flat, right? And I've had people run out big guys, Scotty Stevens. I hit in his shower one time. He went running out of the room and he's kicking his feet like a little girl on

the bed. There's big Scotty Stevens and you just, you catch some people in the wrong time and it's amazing, but it's funny. And I've always done that. It's just it's always fun to keep people on the edge, I guess. Yep. And by the way, if you don't know the prank that Bernie is referring to,

I think Tori Mitchell told it on us, but chicklets a little bit ago. Yeah. It's a great one. Bernie, let me ask you about, you know, I'm still, like, I go back to those L.A. Kings days and I still remember when you were traded. And it was only a year or two off your 70 goal, 150 point season with Gretzky. One, why do you think you and Gretzky had such a great relationship on and off the IAs?

And two, can you kind of bring us through that phone call when you found out you were traded. How absolutely blown away from you were you? And I'm, I'm sure there was just unbelievable satisfaction when you beat the Oilers a couple years later in the playoffs with, excuse me, beat the Kings a couple years later with the Oilers. Yeah, that's right. It was actually, I just, I had my 70 goal year, Gretz's first year. I just signed a new deal. I talked to the owner. I said, you know, him and I negotiated ourselves. That was actually pretty cool. So he signed me, said, I'll never trade you. We're at the All-Star game, and it was after the skills competition, Mike Burning came up to me and said, I heard you're just traded.

And I said, what the hell are you talking about? What do you mean just trade it, right? And so I went and found Bruce McNaul and he said, yeah, we just traded New York, Tony Granado and Thomas Sandstone. and obviously shocked, devastated, and not that I got traded. And I tell people, like, I got to play with Gretz for a year and a half, right? Like, I don't know what it would be like to play with him for five years, 10 years. Like, it was just what I accomplished in one year playing with him, you know, a lot of people don't do in a career, right? And back to Wayne.

I really believe like I hung with Wayne every day. And I just, I believe that Wayne getting traded. He knew for him to be successful. You know, all the eyes are on Wayne. Big trade. He's going to turn this franchise around.

Going to bring hockey to California. He needed help. Right? And like most teams, you need. You need two big sentiment, right? You need more than just himself. He can't do it on his own, and he knew for the team to be successful.

He needed me to be at my best, and I was able to do that for him. But playing with him, hang with him every day was, I tell people it was like Christmas Day every day as a kid. It was so much fun. You know, I got to hang with arguably the greatest player ever played a game, and I was with him every day. It was amazing. And was it nice to get payback, though, a couple years later? Well, absolutely. I go from New York to Edmonton, and who do we meet first round is the L.A. Kings. And they got Curry, Gretzky, McSorley, Charlie Huddy. I'm not sure if Koff was there. But they had half the old Loyal team, right? And now I'm with Edmonton. And we beat him in six games. It was awesome. It was really cool. Because the first trade, Gretz had. who do we meet first round?

The Oilers. And obviously, huge, right? We're down three games to one, and we came back and beat down. When I was in Evanton, we made the Kings. We handled them pretty good. I think we beat the first game in in L.A. or the second game or something, but we beat him with six games.

So very gratifying for me. It was a lot of fun, obviously. Bernie, like everybody else, we followed your career, you know, from the beginning to end. But the one thing that struck me in the book, and it was one of those things I thought, oh my goodness, I'd never notice this. The coaches you got to play for, you want to talk about a who's who. I mean, Roger Nielsen, Pac-Quinn, Herb Brooks, Jacques LaMere, Daryl Sutter.

When you were writing the book, even yourself, did you almost go, man, was I ever lucky to be on the bench for guys like that? Because you talk about Hall of Fame coaches, guys who will go down as the greatest ever, that's a list right there. Yeah, it was funny too, right? My 10 years in L.A., I think I had nine coaches, right? Like, it was just revolving door. But I was forced to play for Pac-win.

I've said different times. Pat always reminded me and my dad, right? Big Burley man could intimidate you. And I love Pat. And he was probably my favorite coach. I go, I was fortunate to play just for her, Brooks, for just a half a year when I get traded to New Jersey. And I said this different times.

Herb would tell stories like pregame before the game. And it was so inspirational, like you may be having the worst career, you know, season of your career. And you go in and talk to Herb and you feel like you're weighing Gretzky, right? Like his pregame speech would maybe be about a horse, about the war or something. And he's got you dead to your seat. and he was so smart. I just loved playing for Herb. Jack Lamarre, Montreal Canadiens.

He played there, I don't know, 7, 8, Stanley Cups, whatever it was. He taught so much of the game, right? And people thought he was more of a defensive coach. He was more of a defensive coach for the defenseman, not pinching, you know, this and that. But the skill players, he allowed me to use my skill, but still taught me defense. right. Roger Nilsen got to play for Roger twice actually with L.A. and then in New York.

I think Roger was ahead of his time. No one worked harder at the game than Roger. I've heard story and I've seen it. You come to the rink and he's asleep on the couch, right? He's been watching video all night and that was Roger. So, and Darryl Sutter, you know, played for Darrell twice. I coach with him two days. different times. So as a player, I always say to people, right? As a player, we're way smarter than the coaches, right? Coaches don't know half as much as we know. When you retire and then you realize you get to know a little bit more about the coach and understand how they are. Darrow was pretty good as well. Very well prepared and very smart.

And Bernie, in 2012, you work for the Kings in a consulting role of coaching. Bring us how that all came about. You going back there, how you help them, and what the satisfaction was like winning a Stanley Cup. Yeah, there's different times during that early in the fall. I would call out to Dean Lombardi, right, the general manager. And I thought they had a really good team, but their power play was just awful. I think they were like 0 for 21 or 0 for 22 or something.

And I was watching one game and had a five on three to, to tie the game or some, and they don't even come close to scoring, right? So I'd reached out to Dean and I said, you know, I'd like to come out just to help the guys. I'm not looking for your job. I just want to come out and work with your guys because you've got so many skilled guys, but your power play is just awful. So he talked to Terry Murray was a coach at the time and, you know, either Terry was, you know, worried about his job or one of the assistant coach's jobs. But I just said, I just want to help.

I'm not looking for a job. But he thought it'd have to be a full-time thing. So nothing happened. Christmas time, they fired Terry. And I knew who they were going to hire because I was with San Jose when Dean Lombardi hired Dary hired Dary. Because I told him to hire Daryl in San Jose. So I was pretty sure who he was hired.

So I actually called Darrell. And it was him. And I said, you know, I want to come out. Your power play's awful, right? I want to come out and just help. And the cool thing about Darrell was when we were in Chicago, he met, he called in myself, Chris Chelyos, Gary Souter, Jeremy Roanick, Tony Amani, Joe Murphy. And he says, look, I don't play the power play.

This is your power play. You guys run it, do whatever you want with it. just work at it, right? That was it. He never, we never practiced with him. We did it on our own, right? So I said to him,

you know, your power play side, he said, I said, like to come out and help. He said, absolutely. So I flew out there.

He got there like January 1st or something, whenever I got there. So we had homestand. We went, homestand, then they're going on the road. I said to him after home. I said,

you know, what do you want me to come on the road with me? You know, we've never been on the road yet. had them with the team. We go Emmettin, Calgary, Vancouver, we win, we win, we tie. So I said,

what do you want me to do now? He said, well, I want you to stay. Okay, great. You know, so it was awesome. And I tell people, I hung with the players. I didn't even hang with the coaches, right? I was with the players all the time. I felt more comfortable. And I think they do too, right? Like, it's easier for a skilled player to talk to a skilled player, and talk to someone who's not.

I always thought. With Darrell, I thought we worked so well together because Darrell could be really hard on kids at time, which is fine. But I would come back around behind them, and I just pat you on the ask, go, hey, but we're all right here. You know, it's all good. So they went on a roll. We just got in, actually, like the last couple games,

but we're playing really well to get there. So we hit the playoffs. We made a trade for Jeff Carter at the deadline. But the key was with Johnson quick. You know, Jonathan played so well. He was MVP. He played so well. And they played as a team.

Like they went, I think they set a record for 10 or 11 road wins, you know, in a playoff round. So it was fun. And I say this. I remember opening night in Vancouver before playoffs and stuff. You know, I just get by myself, go for a walk or something after pregame or something. And I actually, I got butterflies, like how I did the excitement of when I was playing. Right. So it was a lot of fun. I say I don't know what it would be like to win it.

The cup was a player. Like, I couldn't imagine that. It was pretty cool as a coach. Second best, obviously. So it was a great time. Great experience for me. I have to bring the cup home with my family. My daughter was actually there with me when we won.

She was on the ice with the top. And, you know, so it was a lot of fun for me. Yeah, and still those, I remember the pictures of you at the cup on the canoe and in the deer stand and all that stuff. Bernie, lastly for you. So, all right, every year on this show, two, three weeks ago, we talk about Hall of Fame snubs. And your name always comes up. 475 goals, 1,209 points, 1292 pims, almost a point of game in the playoffs, want to cope as a coach, you have a memoir.

Are you a Hall of Fame or are you a Hall of Fame snub right now? Well, you know, and I get this all the time. And what I'm about to say, like, I don't feel that there's a guy in the Hall of Fame that does not deserve to be there. First and foremost, every one of them. So, you know, and I used the same guy all the time, but I mean, if I played in Toronto and Darrell Sitler played in Los Angeles, would Darryl Sitler be in the Hall of Fame?

And the answer has to be no. Because I have every thing that Darrell Sutter, Daryl Settler's done, mine's a little better. Other than he had 10 point game one night, I had eight. Eight. And he had six goals one night.

I had six assists. But I mean, but, and does, do I feel Darrow should be 1,000% he should be? But I played in Los Angeles. No one ever watched it. Back in the 80s and stuff,

you know, all the voters are from these coasts. They're in bed by 1030. They're doing. We're just getting started, right? This year, they inducted three guys. The Sindine twins and Daniel Alverson.

Okay. The Sindine twins career and mine are similar other than they have, they played 1,200 games and scored 1,100 points. I played 1,100 games and scored 1,200 points. Daniel Averson is not even close to mine, right? they played in a you know the can of cup or the olympics for their country right but i tell people so during my era during the olympics or canada cup all we had at sentiment were greetsky lemieux scia stevie iserman dale howich ryan trache doug gilmore okay all hall of

famers and now I'm supposed to play ahead of one of those guys, right? Does that mean that I'm not, shouldn't be where they are? You know what I mean? Like, how am I supposed to play, you know, ahead of one of those guys, right? So, um, like, I just like to talk who's ever making the announcement or, or voting, like to say, okay, so how can this person been and this person It doesn't make sense, right? Like, not everybody can win a stand-the-cup. You know, people won six, seven, eight, ten because of the situations they're in, right? The teams they play for.

So it may sound sour. It's not because I feel everybody that's in there deserves to be in there. But how can you put someone in there that doesn't have what this other person has? and never played with the centerman that he had to play with during his career, right? Makes sense. I think we know Bernie's answer right there with that explanation. And Bernie, I will maintain until the day I die. Everyone brings up your 70 goals.

70 goals. I'm not trying to discount 70 goals. To me, 150 points is much more impressive. You look at the list of people with 150 points. Wayne Gretzky, Mario Lemieux, Steve Eiserman, and Phil Espizio. And Bernie Nunes. That's it. To me, I don't want to discount the 70, but when people go, well, he scored 70,

I'll go, he had 150 points that year, guys. That is the most impressive. And he talks about it in the book from floodlights to bright lights. Again, I'm not saying this because you're on our show. Fantastic read, go and read it. Bernie, thanks so much for doing this. We really appreciate it. Thanks, Bernie.

Thank you, guys. Yeah, thanks, Bernie. Appreciate it. Anytime. Former NHLer and possible future Hall of Famer, Bernie Nichols on the show. After the break, rapid fire. So don't go anywhere. All right, boys, our favorite time of the show and yours, rapid fire.

We're going to start with the goalie. We talked about the previous segment, Connor Hellebuck. He wants a change made to the NHL rule. Not sure if you saw why he was so angry. He had a collision just on the edge of his crease. I know Jesse will say he was in his crease and bullies need to be protected. But his helmet gets knocked off. Play went on.

Goal was scored. It is worth mentioning that it was his own player, Josh Morrissey, who knocked J.V. bent into him. He thought the play should have been blown dead. Jesse, you know, I'm going to start with you here. What do you think of hell of luck wanting this will change? Yeah, he's absolutely right. You already knew that that was going to be the side of the argument I was on. But listen, when a goalie's mask comes off, the rule saying imminent scoring chance, like, I agree with that. If a goalie gets hit with a puck and his mask pops off and the puck falls right next to him and the guy just jams it into the crease, like for the goal, good goal. We can't be taking those goals off board.

not the case. It wasn't even remotely the case. They passed the puck like four times and then took a shot from the point with a guy with no mask on on the ice, laying on the ice. This is insanity. I cannot imagine how anyone could be on the other side of this argument. That was not even remotely close to what the rule is designed for. They absolutely, that goal shouldn't have counted. And moving forward, there can't be passes after it for it to be an imminent scoring chance. Like, like I said, I'm okay with the puck is around the crease, jam it in, just because his helmet falls off. We can't not count that goal. But that wasn't what that was.

Just ridiculous. I totally agree with Helleba. How many NHL goalies are like rolling over in their graves right now that didn't wear masks back in like the 20th century? They couldn't elevate the puck back then, though. Those guys couldn't get the puck off yet. Oh, poor Connor Hellebuck. No, I'm just kidding. I agree with you.

I agree with it. Um, yep. You know, at least he didn't push the net off the moorings, 25. times to get a stoppage. That's the, that's the new epidemic. Yeah. As soon as a pass is made, that's no longer, as they say, immediate and impending scoring opportunity. If a pass is made, we're blowing this thing dead. Rapid Fire number two, Rope Hintz, who Russo was talking about earlier, eight years, 67.6 million dollar extension with Dallas breakout season last year with 37 goals, 22 games this season.

He's got eight goals and 24 points. And he's going to be sticking in Dallas for a while. Russo. I love them. I love them as a player. I love the contract. You know, look, these guys are getting a lot of money these days. I know some people, you know, sometimes still look at projection deals.

But that's what you've got to do with a lot of these young guys. And then pray to goodness, they're healthy. And what you're seeing and what you're projecting is actually to come to fruition. And Jim Nill and his staff are very smart, smart people. And I like the contract. Yep. The NHL has definitely trended in the last, I don't know, five, six years of paying these guys, rather than paying them when they're 32, 33 for what they have done, they're paying them for what they're going to do.

And I think that's a great example. This deal is a great example of that. He's only 25 years old. Not only is offensive numbers, as Rob said mentioned, not only are they great, but his defensive on ice numbers are phenomenal. He's a great two-way forward. Only 25. Very little downside to this, in my opinion. Even if the offensive numbers were to drop a little bit,

he's still going to be a great two-way player that like the floor on Rupert Hintz for the next eight years is incredibly high for me. The biggest win that the NHLPA got in what's two, three CBAs ago was moving up free agency to seven years or age 27. Like when I first started covering the league, you didn't get paid until you were 31 or been in the league for 10 years. And you were giving older guys that were all. on the downslope, unbelievable contracts that were over, I shouldn't say actually unbelievable,

but high contracts that they weren't ever going to be able to hit because they're on the downward spiral. And then moving that free agency up, it eventually became where if you got a second contract, it was just a skyrocketing price to get ahead of unrestricted free agency just a couple years later. And it was a big, big win for, I can't even remember. Was that Donald Fier or Bob Gooder now at the time? You know, it's just, huge win. I'm not sure there's ever been a time in the NHL where players are looked upon as blue chick chip chips stocks more than now.

It used to be, as Russo said, prove it. Show me you could show me and then you'll get paid. Now it's like, well, we have to kind of see what we have to look into a crystal ball and see what they're going to do and that's what's going to determine what they get paid. And it was definitely good. It was definitely good at now on Ted Sasker. All right. Minnesota Wild, demoting top prospect.

Marco Rossi to the American Hockey League. I think, you know, Russo, I'm starting with you on this one. Your thoughts on this decision? Yeah, I mean, look, it had to happen. I feel bad for him. He was scratched the last four games. They're going with 7D some nights and not playing them. They were playing them on the fourth line.

They gave him some games with Matt Boldy. You know, I would be curious. Like, they played him like in Boston, in Montreal, in Ottawa at Boldie. And Rossi set up some unbelievable chances that Boldie just didn't finish. how maybe that would have changed his confidence. Have you got some points there? The only place in the lineup that he didn't play was with Capriess and Zucarillo,

and they weren't just going to give it to him. He goes to Iowa last night. He plays in San Jose. He gets a goal and two assists within 15 minutes of the game. I just think that if you spend seven, eight, nine games down there, we're going to see a different player. But when he comes back here, now it's incumbent on the wild to not play him on the fourth line, to give him actual quality line mates and play him in a top six role.

And let's see what he could do in that situation. but this needed to be done because he just was not playing the way that he was billed to play. Yeah, I mean, confidence is so important. And as you mentioned, good start in the HL, a few games down there. You're the best player on the ice every night. It's easy to get that confidence back. I think I totally agree with you. Those players, they kind of just need that boost to feel they can do it again.

When you're getting your butt kicked into the HL for a few games, and suddenly you get back and you have the confidence you can do it. Yeah, just to button that up. I mean, just don't think that that first even point that Marco Rossi got last night wasn't just this huge sigh relief off of him. Like I think sometimes, even though Marco's a proud guy and has a lot of confidence, to just go down there and hear your name again, come out of the loudspeaker, I just think that's just going to be a little reminder,

hey, I am a good player. There's a reason why I was a first round pick and let's see what he could do from there. What are we working on this week, boys? Jesse? Well, I've got some NHL 99 stuff that I'm working on. I mentioned it, I think, last week. I'm working on a Tony Esposito piece that's coming out soon. I'm super pumped about that.

And then the other piece, you'd never guess what position this player plays. Martin Brodour is the other one I'm working on. One of the greats of all time. And I'm doing a really cool story on his ridiculous stick handling. Everybody knows that he's the best stick handler of all time. one of the only players in NHL history we created a line on the ice for because he was so damn good at it. So I got some really cool inside stuff from him stories about growing up, take handling it's driveway, just really cool story on Marty Brodor that I'm excited about.

Yeah, I was joke with him whenever I see him that when I covered the Florida Panthers that if it wasn't for the Panthers, he wouldn't even be in the Hall of Fame. I think he had like 80 wins against him. It felt like it was just unbelievable. And it was crazy watching those Panthers games. they dump a puck which that was their style back then at marty they could not even get halfway into the offensive zone before marty had that out to scott needemar or whoever uh coming up the ice uh brian ralphalski it was it was always pleasure to watch him um i'm doing mike mic mic madano

uh piece comes out i think december 7th in hl 99 i'm working on a mike bossy one as well uh got a bunch of really cool uh national stories i'm working on right now i'm doing a really neat story. It's been great stuff about what it's like to be in an NHL locker room during intermission and all the behind-the-scenes stuff that happens in there that fans never get to see. Working on that, as I mentioned, I'm going down to Arizona as well. And I've been working chat with a bunch of their guys the other day and I'm going down there to do a bunch of topics. So a lot of really cool stories on the horizon, both locally here in Minnesota but also nationally. I look forward to the intermission story because there are so many things that we ended up seeing,

even on things like 24-7 that you would never have guessed, you know, you'd be shocked at how many players pretty much completely take their equipment off in between periods. How about this one? I don't want to give away my lead to this story, but I was blown away by this. For like pretty much all his 1600 games,

Patrick Marlowe would take a cold tub after warm-ups, after the first, during the first intermission during the second. A cold tub. How fast is this guy getting dressed? Yeah, like it was just crazy. some of the anecdotes I've gotten are really good. It's going to be a fun story.

So still read the story, even though that will probably end up being the lead of that story. I'm pretty sure people will still be clicking away there, Russo. Thanks, boys. And I want to remind everybody who is listening. Follow us on your favorite podcast platform. Don't forget leave a rating and a review. I want to let you know some other things that are coming up. Ryan Reeves joining straight from the source with some guy named Michael Russo on Friday.

So be sure to tune into that one. John Hamm, join Sean Gentilly and Jeremy. on the Tuesday edition of the Athletic Hockey Show on December the 6th. And I want to remind you, you want an annual subscription to The Athletic. You had it for just $2 a month when you visit the athletic.com slash hockey show. The athletic hockey show returns Thursday with Ian Mendez and down goes brown. We will be back next week. Rousseau's away, Joe Smith filling in.

And our guest will be Peter Boss, so be sure to tune into that. For Jesse and Mike, I'm Pizzo. We'll see you in a week.