The Athletic Hockey Show - Red Wings poised to miss 10th straight postseason

Episode Date: April 8, 2026

The Detroit Red Wings freefall from first in the Atlantic to missing the postseason cut for a tenth straight season is almost complete. Max Bultman, Sean McIndoe and Frank Corrado discuss what went wrong in the Motor City, the Anaheim Ducks six-game losing streak, and what went wrong for Tom Fitzgerald and the New Jersey Devils. Plus, former NHL'er Cameron Gaunce joins to discuss the red-hot Flyers, the unstoppable Sens, the perfect Golden Knights since Torts took over and the boys give their picks for the final playoff spot in the West.Host: Max Bultman and Sean McIndoeWith: Frank Corrado and Cameron GaunceExecutive Producer: Chris FlanneryProducer: Jeff DometWatch full episodes on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@theathletichockeyshowJoin our Discord Server: https://discord.gg/VTm9VjkFSubscribe to The Athletic: https://theathletic.com/hockeyshow Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the Athletic Hockey Show. Hey, everybody. I'm Max Bolton, alongside Sean McIn doing Frankie Carrado for another episode of the athletic hockey show. I'm filling in for Sean Gentilly today. Cameron Gons is going to join us in segment two for a little playoff preview. But first, guys, I want this to be as seamless as possible. I want to do as Sean would want.

And I know that Sean would want us to start with the Detroit Red Wings today. They lose another one last night. They play in Columbus. It's another must-win game. I feel like I've boy cried wolf my way out of being allowed to use the phrase must win game over the last month. But they're playing another team in the same spot as them trying to chase down a point or two gap in the East standings in the East wildcard race.

They have a lead with 21 seconds left. Lose a face off. Columbus scores to tie it and the Blue Jackets take it in OT. I've seen this story a few times before. For you guys who have not necessarily been on every single beating pulse of this last five weeks. What was your first thought, Frankie? Listen, man, when I, first of all, going into that game, the crazy thing was one of those teams was going to have to win.

Like, both of them have not been playing well or they haven't been getting the results. And it was like, wow, either the jackets or the Red Wings are going to get two points in this game. And I feel for my pal Kenny Daniels because he calls such an exciting game. And the Fantilli goal goes in with seconds left and you could just feel like, oh, my God, I can't believe it's happening again. And like the Red Wings, there's a few things catching up to them right now. And Max, you cover them very closely. But the fact that so often in games, they have to play from behind, their five-on-five goal

scoring, like, really hurts them, especially like, you know, you get two goals from Justin Falk last night. Like, where's everyone else? Where's all the forwards that are supposed to be scoring at five-on-five? And ultimately, like, they've just found so many different ways to lose games. games in the last couple months that it hurts, man. Like, this is a team that was at first place in the Atlantic for, you know, a decent stretch of time this season.

And now it feels like it's not going to happen again. I think 10, was it 10 years in a row now? They're not going to make the playoffs. This is, this is wild stuff what's going on in Detroit. And I don't know what the quick answer is. The longest drought in the NHL now with the Sabres finally back in. I watched that game last night, and it felt old school. This felt like what watching a big game used to feel like,

where you had the cut-ins to the other scores. It wasn't just the bug popping up with the scores. They would actually come in and go, we have a goal in Ottawa, and they would go over, and it would be the senators' scoring. And you're watching the scores. You see the flyers are ahead. The absolute worst-case scenario,

and yet you're sitting there going, well, at least the Red Wings are winning. They're going to get a regulation win. They're going to keep pace. And then it all falls apart at the end there. And then, of course, Columbus takes it in the shootout. I'm just going to say it. And Max, jump in. Correct me.

Defend your turf. I think they're done. I think last night is officially the end of the Red Wings playoff push. Yeah, I mean, the math certainly would suggest that it's down to 6% now. It's been headed that way for a while. I've been kind of ready to call it for a couple games now here, not because of the math, but because of how it looked. The irony is last night, I thought they looked pretty good for like 50 plus minutes of that game. And then they just can't get the, I mean, a little bit of a slow start, the bad turnover behind the net by one of their rookie defensemen last night that leads to it that early deficit, which to Frankie's point, this has been one of my kind of fixations over the last month is that the way they're constructed.

They can play with a lead. And I think that's why they got so hot from December to February is that they had John Gibson. They were able to start these games and score first and keep teams off in the first period. And then they're kind of built to Anaconda you a little bit. They're not a five-on-five scoring team, but they can check fairly well. That's why I think their big blue line edition was a D. You can argue it should have been the other thing to address the weakness. But when your strength needs to be goal suppression, it doesn't work when you can't chase a lead and you go down early.

And they've gone down early so often. Ironically, this one, like everyone's going to focus on the fact that, and rightfully so, that they blow the lead with 20 seconds left. The goal comes from almost the exact same spot on the ice that Carillo Caprizov scored the eventual game winner one game earlier. And so there's some parallels there of how they're handling late games. But to me, when they play with a lead, they look like a playoff team. And when they're chasing, they look like they're in trouble. And they've been chasing for the whole last month.

And that's why I agree. I think that it's just too hard of a road from this point on. It's interesting, right? Because teams are designed to have success a certain way. Like, if you look at, like, I'll use an example of the Ottawa senators, right? And we'll touch more on the playoff kind of preview in the second segment. But the senators do the same thing over and over again and they don't deviate from it. And I feel like for the Red Wings where, you know, to your point, Max, when something goes off the chains a little bit and they have to deviate from their plan, it doesn't go well. for them. Like they, they have a hard time finding like an extra gear within their game. And a lot of

the teams around them have found that. Like, you know, Phillies found it. Um, Ottawa's found it. Like the, the Bruins have, have certainly found it this year. Pittsburgh. Pittsburgh. Yeah. No kidding, man. Like, it's just they, they have had such a rough go at adapting. Um, and that's been a big, big issue for them. And I think the, the question now is like, how do you not, have the question, what happens next for the wings? Like, what is the fix? You got a lot of guys coming back. A lot of guys on term. Like, your UFAs are like, Peron, JVR, Hamannick. That means you're kind of locked into these guys. And I guess you could look at that and say, okay, there's something to work with there at times. And not for a day or two, longer than that. They were the

first place team. So there is something there. But, Like, how do you get that to sustain itself and how do you get the same group to come back next year and play different at times and be adaptable? That's going to be an interesting call. And to do it all with this thing hanging over them that is now going to be there, which is October through February, sure, they'll be fine. But in March and April, that's when they collapse. We've seen that a few years in a row now. And, you know, to do what we are legally mandated to do in hockey media and link this back to the Toronto Maple Leafs, for years with the Leafs, it was, you'd sit there and go, it doesn't matter what happens in the regular season, because they're going to choke it up in the playoffs anyways, so who cares? And they could win 15 games in a row in December, and everybody just kind of shrugged.

And that becomes like, you know, like a poison that the seeps into a team. And it feels like now the Red Wings are in that, in that scenario. I've been making the, you know, call it a joke, maybe, call it an observation. The Red Wings are basically now just the Leafs one month early, right? The Leafs in April and early May is now, it's now the, that's what the Red Wings are in March and early April. and it's poison because you can't build any momentum. You can't build that feeling of this is different, right? What did we see in Buffalo, right, this year?

Once they got going, this feels different. Forget the past. Forget all of that stuff. It feels different this year and it was different. And you just can't get that feeling when the part that always kills you comes at the very end. And I mean, you're right. The math just doesn't work for the Red Wings right now. I got a little bit excited because I saw they've got the flyers up next.

And they did beat the flyers recently. And there were only a few points back of Philly. And they've got the tiebreaker and all of that. And I was thinking, you know what? Maybe. Uh-oh, wait a second. They can't pass the Flyers. It doesn't matter if they catch the Philadelphia Flyers.

It doesn't matter if they catch the Islanders. They have to catch the Senators because there's only room for five Atlantic teams. They're not catching Boston. they have to catch the senators. It ain't happening. The senators are gone. The senators are in. And that means there's no path for the Detroit Red Wings.

And I have no idea what you do next. Because Max, you know, you and I chatted about it in the newsletter that went out yesterday before this game. What happens next to Steve Eiserman? And you said something very interesting, which was you said, I think for the first time in seven years, you can envision a scenario. where Steve Eisenman is not the GM next year. Right. And this is not like gang up on the Red Wings. This is just, this is the reality of the results that they have delivered,

basically from the Olympic break onward. And like excuses have been eliminated for the Red Wings. You can't say that, oh, we were, we were so injured. It's not the case, man. They have the fewest mangames lost out of any team in the NHL this season. Going into last night's action, 76 man games lost. That's dead last. Like, they have been the healthiest team in the NHL.

And to put that into context, the Buffalo Sabres, who are cruising in the Atlantic, they have the second most man games lost this season, 409 games. Just think about that for a second. Like, you can't blame injuries. You can't say that, oh, we lost Larkin for two months, or we lost Raymond or we lost, like you've been really healthy in comparison to everyone else who has found a way. So it like a lot of this, you know, your GM, like, yeah, you want to bring up the GM. He went and got a defenseman.

You know, like he went and got a goaltender. And the goal he played really well for a lot of the season. Like I, we can have conversations about the coach and the GM. I think Dean Eveson was was on a show yesterday and he kind of said it best like, hey, coach gets a lot of credit when teams win, maybe too much. much credit and coaches take a lot of heat when they lose and maybe it's it's too much heat like ultimately there was some moves made to help bolster this team and the players that are on the ice there's there's not a lot of excuses for for what's happened yeah and there's a little nuance in

that they have guys who are playing but they're they're clearly not right like dillen lark had his best game since coming back from injury i thought last night but he still doesn't look like dillan Larkin should. The thing is, when you, we mentioned Pittsburgh earlier. We mentioned Ottawa. Like, these are teams that are playing through the exact same amount of injuries as the Red Wings are, and they are finding a way. And what that tells me is the Red Wings do not have a deep enough team to make up for it when their top guys are even off by a little bit. If Dylan Larkin is playing at, let's say he's playing at 60%. The other guys have not elevated to make up for that missing 40%, or even really close to it. And I'm not making the guys, the big guys,

blameless and all this either. Like Larkin's five on five year was was, was even before he got hurt. But I think it's a factor for him. It's a factor for Raymond. It's a factor for Cobb. But that's what teams are. You got to pick up the guys who are struggling when they're struggling. The Red Wings have not done even close to a good enough job of that.

Sean, you mentioned the Leafs a month early thing. I didn't know whether to tell you you, you sniped me on that because I've been sitting on that one for a couple weeks. Or if I should send you a thank you note because I didn't have to be the one to bring it up. I think that's a huge psychological problem now going forward. And you talked about what's next. This is the conversation we've had about the Leafs every year for the last like five seasons is when something like when you know that there's this boogeyman at the end of the season and nothing is get no one's going to buy into anything next year.

People were reticent to buy into anything this year. It took them being tied for the top of the Eastern Conference in late January for people to buy into it this year and to see the rug pulled in the most dramatic fashion yet like it has been this year. I don't know what would have to happen by next February for people to be back all in. next year, not worried that the same haunting is going to occur again. And that makes a really, really hard situation to manage. You don't know whether you should try to run it back and fix where it went wrong. You don't know if you should try to make massive changes. That clearly hasn't gone very well for the Leafs this year, right? I mean, they tried the scapegoat angle. Scapegoat angle didn't turn out to be such a good idea in Toronto. So they're in the worst place

you can be as a team. And it's going to be an interesting offseason. And yet no one's going to buy and even if they do it exactly how everyone draws it up. And it is because, look, I've said this with the leaves before. The scariest scene in the history of movies, I believe, is that scene in Mulhall and Drive, if you've seen it, where he sits down in the diner and he explains in detail what he is afraid of. And then they finally get up and they go around the corner. And what's waiting for him? Exactly what he said.

You're sitting there psychologically thinking it's going to be a surprise. There's going to be a twist. they're going to do. No, they deliver exactly what he said, and that's what makes it terrifying. And that's what keeps happening in the Leafs. And it's what keeps happening to the Red Wings. And the thing is with Detroit, you know, this team is kind of, they've got a bunch of great young talent coming, but this doesn't feel like a team that is in, that is ascending the way that, for example, a team like Anaheim, another team that's collapsing late in the season, but this is a team that is clearly on the way up. And even if Anaheim,

finishes losing 10 in a row and they get swept in the first round, that'll be brutally disappointing based on where they look like they were going to be a few weeks ago. But the season is still a success. And you can say that in Anaheim. You can say that in San Jose in a few other places. I don't think you can say it in Detroit. No, Detroit doesn't have Leo Carlson or Cutter-Gotier. Well, exactly. And I think the thing with Anaheim, if you want to draw comparisons, because, well, let's use the Leafs again, the year that they made the playoffs, the first time in that whole cruise tenure, right? 2016, 2017. It was like, I think Jeff Vayette coined this term, hey, the Leafs are actually good. We weren't expecting them to be that good. And so, yeah,

there was some flaws with the team. You were going to have to fix things defensively. But man, you had some firepower and you had an extra gear that maybe you didn't think you had. And now, at that point, it was like, okay, let's round it out. Let's get them to buy in defensively. And have some success long term. Now we know 10 years later that it never really played out that way. And if you're the ducks, you have to take your sample of this year and look at it and say, the ponies can fly. Like Cutter Goce up and down the ice, ton of shots, rush chances, he's great. Leo Carlson could be the next big thing as far as centermen go in the NHL. But if we've learned anything, especially now after losing four in a row and goal differential,

can tell us a bit of a story at some point, the way you play is going to come back to bite you. And it will still be considered a success for the ducks because, yes, they have exceeded expectations, but they will have something different than Detroit. They will have the base of the thoroughbreds who can run out there and produce big time. And now you just have to get them to pick their spots a little better and buy in defensively and just get everything a little more polished that way, whereas the Red Wings have to consistently try and extract as much as they possibly can while knowing that we have to play so structured and so detailed in order for us to have this success.

It's like two sides of a coin, just totally different. And it does feel a little, you know, it feels rosy for the Ducks, even though they've lost four in a row now. Well, they've lost six in a row. It's just they got that one OT loss in there, right? So it makes it look even a little bit. Five of the six losses now in regulation. I agree with you, though.

I still take a generally positive view of this season. I mean, even if they were to miss the playoffs, that would be a blow to that. But so many good things have happened for them. Beckett Seneca being every bit worthy of the number three overall pick is a big deal for these guys. You have to go through something like this at some point. And Anaheim may be able to do it and still make the playoffs and still make it all just this, hey, blip on the radar.

are thing. I don't see them going far in the playoffs. Maybe we'll talk about that a little bit more when Cameron Gons joins us, but you're right. This is still a positive year for the Anaheim Ducks. Is it a positive year? And, Sean, you mentioned GM changes earlier. Is it a positive year for the New Jersey Devils? No, but they are a team that, you know, Tom Fitzgerald is out. You're going to have a search there. This does feel like one of the more ready made potential turnaround jobs in the NHL. It does, but it also, like, think about this. Every time Jack Hughes gets hurt, maybe this is just anecdotal.

You guys can correct me if I'm wrong, and I'm sure someone will tweet at me, but every time Jack Hughes gets hurt, the team goes on a nosedive. Like this year, it was what, middle of November when he had that freak accident with his hand, and then they had, like, did they have, they have a terrible December and they had a horrible January. And, like, that's, that's too. long of being below 500 to be able to withstand everyone else who was winning around you in the Eastern Conference. And I think that just goes to show you. Like there needs to be more than just,

hey, if Jack's not here, we can't do it. Nico He's sure is a really good player. He's actually played well, but you just, there needs to be more there. And I think they have a lot of, the devils with their roster construction have a lot of duplicates, like a lot of redundancies. and they're just, role definition is a real thing. It's the reason why we see, you know, teams like the Panthers have had so much success because, you know what, everyone brings to the table and everyone can find a role within that group. And it's not third and fourth lines that are playing minimal minutes because they just can't

provide that for you. And the Devils, again, one of those teams that's injured a lot, that seems to be consistent year to year. But I don't know, I just kind of come back to their roster. construction and I say there's there's a lot of there's a lot of duplicates there's a lot of the same there and that's something that would need to change with a new general manager and and I got to say I'm I'm starting to be out on the devils because I'm I'm like everyone else right we we saw for years they weren't very good they were doing the rebuild getting the top picks

having some lottery luck great that's that's part of the process and then they had that year where, you know, they start off slow and everyone's chanting fire, Lindy and everything, and then suddenly they catch fire, they look great, they win around, and everybody goes, all right, boom, the New Jersey Devils have arrived, and this is a team that is not just a playoff team, but a Stanley Cup contender, and we just all kind of declared it, and we all bought in, and there were lots of valid reasons to believe that. That was three years ago, right? they follow that year up, they miss the playoffs, we all go, they don't have a goalie. That was the problem.

Then they went out and got a goalie. They make the playoffs. They lose in five games. Now, this year you come in, you go, okay, everyone's going to be healthy. It's the injuries that got them last time. It's all going to come together. And I'm guilty. I had the Devils as one of my cup favorite teams, and they missed the playoffs by a mile.

We're going to be sitting there going three years of this team, they have won one single playoff game. Guys, that's one game more than the three of us have combined to win. That's not very good. And at some point, I don't know if it's a Sheldon Keith thing. Obviously, Tom Fitzgerald and has already paid the price. I did not love the Niko Heeser quote about an extension and about, you know, anytime a guy starts talking about, hey, I'm on this team now. I get a little bit nervous about that too. So I don't know that there is a path for this team to get to the level we thought they were going to get. To get back to the playoffs, yeah, absolutely. Once you're in the playoffs, anything can happen. We all know that. But this was supposed to be like, if not an elite team,

at least like a team that was in that top eight to 10 where you go into the season, you go, absolutely, everything plays out right. This team can win a cup. I'm starting to wonder if we just all got out over our skis. And it was that one, the fire Lindy year was, was the outlier. And everything else is this team just telling us exactly who they are, which is middle of the pack at best. Well, the Hughes injuries are a big part of it. If they can keep him healthy and granted, that's a massive if at this point for more than, you know, 60 games a year, that makes a big difference. I just want to see a more like true bottom six line for them. Like it feels like the blue line, I think they can deal from strength out. And especially they have Saliav coming.

Like that's, that's a good deep blue line. But that's one of the places, Frankie, where they have some redundancies. They have some guys that it's just too much of one thing. Trade from that. There's no free agents on that, on that market. They should be able to trade one, maybe two defensemen and get real returns this year. And whether those returns are some of these, you know, body banging for third and fourth liners. But you need a real identity in the mold of the Bruins and the mold of the penguins in the bottom six. They have the talent in the top six. No, Timo Meyer hasn't been as good there as you'd like him to be. Dawson Mercer hasn't really lived up to what I thought he was going to be three years ago,

but he's still a nice player. He's healthy. He's available. He plays 82 games a year, right? Like, you just, that's a guy you don't need to have slotted too high in your lineup. And Sheldon keeps a good coach. He is a good coach.

I do believe that. And he wants, he wants to play a certain style of hockey. Like up tempo, he wants close gaps. He wants to force the puck out of other team's hands. I guess maybe where you may be run into some things with his style of game is that sometimes they will force pucks off the boards into the middle a little too quickly and it gets you in trouble

but that just means like you might need players that can play that style but to your point max like they don't necessarily have a lot of that scattered throughout their lineup yeah so there's work to be done for whoever takes this job but i think that there are there's good bones to use it to use a little house hunting term there if i'm a gm this is a place that i think you could you could do a nice flip job with and come up pretty happy with it let's take a quick break right there cameron is going to join us right after this. All right, we are back, and we are joined now by Cameron Gons, who joins us from TSN to talk about the playoffs.

And this will be a sunnier segment for those of us who got bummed out in segment one, as we talked about all the teams letting it slip away. The Philadelphia Flyers not letting it slip away, 15, 5 and 1 in their last 21 now. They stay red hot with a win last night over the New Jersey Devils, who we closed segment one with. Right now, the Philadelphia Flyers are in a great spot. They're in a metro position, so they don't have to worry quite as much about the wildcard, although splitting hairs a little bit.

The Columbus Blue Jackets are still right on their heels. But the Philadelphia Flyers are red hot. They're a team that I don't have a ton of worries about right now. If you ran into them in round one, Cameron, how nervous should the Pittsburgh Penguins be? I think you have to be at least a little bit nervous just because of the useful exuberance. Like already they had a useful group, and then you add someone like Porter Martone, who I know pretty well from skating with him for a number of summers and getting to know him off days. He's a guy that's always going to inject energy into the lineup.

You see him right away playing with Zegra's getting on that first NHL goals and overtime winner. Like that type of energy this late in the season. Like you see some teams they're dragging a bit at this time of the season. Talk about Anaheim probably later. Some teams are dragging, whereas Philadelphia seems to be hitting their stride and reaching the top of their trajectory right now, which is such a, obviously a great thing for that team. And for Rick Tocket to go and potentially play against Pittsburgh in that first round, there's a lot there as well.

He knows those players. Maybe it might not be as big an advantage as some people may think with a different coach there than when he was previously there. But it's got to be a concern for Pittsburgh, considering just how well, with how much excitement the Philadelphia players are playing with. There's a couple other things, too. Like, Martone doesn't look and feel like a guy who's just starting in the NHL. It feels like he's been there for a while.

He's jumped right in and he's fit seamlessly. But every year there's a conversation around who's the most underrated player in the NHL. And it's basically just a guy who's good but doesn't get enough attention. They were missing Tyson Forrester for a long time this year. He had that freak injury and he's back. And what a difference he makes. He's not the fastest guy by any means, but he gets around to where he needs to get around to. He's incredibly smart.

and it's made a massive difference having him around. And furthermore to that, like, it was the middle of March. And, you know, we've talked about goal differential already. They were like a minus 12, minus 13 goal differential. They've chipped away at that so much. Like, they're a plus one. And I am, I'm willing to admit when I am wrong, there was no part of me that ever saw this like offensive outburst coming from the Flyers.

Just didn't think it was there. I thought they are what they are. They're, you know, they'll give. you a good fight defensively, but they just don't have the guns to kind of outscore it. And meanwhile, like, they're, they're scoring at a clip that they just haven't scored at, I don't know, all season long. So credit to them for finding this. And I think, like, Forrester makes a massive difference.

I don't think he gets enough love for just how, how savvy of a player he is. And I think we have to give some credit to Rick Tocket here. Rick Tocket might be pretty good at this. You look at the, you know, he left Vancouver and, you know, there was, there was a little bit of a cloud hanging over him based on how that went. Look at the Canucks now. And he comes in. And yeah, I mean, we all looked at this Flyers team coming into this year and you said, well, they're not going to have the worst goaltending that we've seen in years again. Because that's just not how goaltending works.

And so you figured there'd be a room for a little bit of a bounce. And even, you know, midway through the season. these guys are hanging around the playoffs. Good for them. This will be a good learning experience. The young guys are going to get to play some meaningful hockey down the stretch. And then they'll eventually step back and they'll let the teams that are really built for the playoffs. I kind of come in.

I guess they miss that memo because they now look like they're going to make it. They're not locked in. They don't have the tiebreaker probably over Columbus, for example. So there's still some layer of risk and we don't know what's going to happen in New York with the Islanders. with the coaching change there. I'm going to say, though, Rick, Rick Tock, it has impressed me. I didn't love the hire at the time. I kind of rolled my eyes.

Here we go. It's another team hiring the X star player that, you know, the fans all love. And isn't that the easy way to do it in the NHL these days? Rick Tock, it's pretty good at his job. Yeah, it turned out it wasn't the cloud. He was the umbrella that was keeping whatever you could out in Vancouver. It's funny because, like, the Mitchcoff situation has been a spot where he's kind of come under a little bit of criticism this year. but I think you look around the rest of their roster and Trevor Ziegress is having a great year under him.

Like it's clearly not the case that Tocke can't work with skilled, skilled star players. He's found a way to make it work. And if Mitch Kov is able to get going, which I'm never going to rule out, he's that talented. Yad Marton into the mix, all of a sudden, this Flyers team that I think we think about is just kind of an energy and jam. That's the way they have to play team starts to have a little bit more ways that they can beat you. Let's move gears to another team that's gotten hot lately, and that's the Ottawa Senators. they have a huge win in Tampa last night, Frankie. All of a sudden, the senators not only look like they're going to make the playoffs,

as we said in segment one, they look like a scary team to face in the first round of the playoffs. It's because what they do well, like they do it so consistently, right? Like the structure is such a buzzword. People use it all the time, but like they never really deviate from it. And like, Cam, you can attest to this. Like you've been in a room and guys have said certain things, right? Like, yeah, we believe in ourselves in here.

here. We're blocking out all the outside noise. And sometimes it's just words. Sometimes it doesn't really mean anything. And I'm talking about what players and coaches say to the media. Like, internally, you would know, like, if we actually believe it or not. But they have said that so many times this year. And then something will pop up, a piece of adversity. Goaltender can't play. You get thumped by the Panthers. And it's like, then they come back and they just go back to the well and do exactly what they do at a high level. And, they've built such a great highlight reel of that. So I think the internal belief with the Sends that they are no different than the lightning

or the sabers or the Canadians for that matter and that everyone should be worried about them, like when they kind of allude to that, I think they actually do believe it because they play like they believe it. They do it nonstop. Like whether it's start of the season or now, they've been playing a very good brand of hockey. They just have been getting historically. bad goaltending. The amount of times I've had to do hits on Ottawa Senator games

where discussion is, is their goaltending going to be the downfall? Can they overcome the goaltending? So on and so forth. It's happening. All they have to get is average goaltending. It's been said over and over again. If they're going to get that, they're an excellent team. When you talk about, Frank, you just talked about structure.

Well, when you lose defensemen, like Sanderson, yes, he was excellent last night, but he came back from injury, Shabbat's out, Jensen's out. When you lose players like that, their ability to slot in new players to those positions is helped by just how well they play within their structure and how much they believe in what they're saying. Yes, there's certain aspects that you don't want to be dealing with, the distractions you want to talk about them. But sometimes some of these distractions

that are being had lead to good conversations within that room. There's a lot of times where if you're a leader in that dressing room, it's hard to broach certain situations. But if someone else broaches it for you and that conversation is now has to happen because of something else, then that's a conversation that's happening probably a lot sooner than it would have happened. For instance, what Keith Kachuk talked about on that podcast. If that wasn't talked about by Keith Kachuk, there's a good chance that doesn't get discussed by the players on the team. Whereas that happens. It's brought up.

That now has to be addressed. So now you're able to get rid of a potential issue or elephant in the room a lot earlier than if you continue to just let it fester. So for a team that plays as well as they do, for a team that has as deep up front, when you talk about centermen, not many teams in this league can roll out the centermen that the Ottawa senators have, they're a team that, like you said, believes in what they have. And if they continue to play this way, I don't know many teams are going to want to play this. Let's do this. I'm going to step into the void and I want to see who follows me. Okay. All right.

Right now, it is very likely that the Ottawa senators are going to get the same. second wildcard spot. They could catch Boston. It's going to be tough, just because they're running out of runway to do it. And it also looks like the Carolina Hurricanes are going to finish first in the Eastern Conference because we've got this log jam with the big three in the Atlantic. So that gives us Ottawa crossing over to play the Carolina Hurricanes. I'm going to plant the flag. Give me the Ottawa senators to beat Carolina in the first round, if that's a lot. If that's a lot, the matchup, who's with me? I'll go out on that ride with you.

Yeah, no, I'm with you. They can play the kind of game Carolina wants to play, and they can add a little bit to it too. I mean, the wild card is goaltending. That might be the most chaotic goaltending first round match or imaginable. But I'll ride that one, Sean. And if, if that happens,

and it's Pittsburgh Flyers, are we, there you go, are we hanging, are we hanging a Metro Division banner in Ottawa next year? Will we do that? Okay. I would let's, I think it's great, like, to have the conversation. I think Carolina, like, clearly they have had goaltending issues, and they've had issues

getting past, like, the conference finals, and a lot of that has to do with the Florida Panthers and them maybe not finding the extra goal when they need it. Like, let's just not lose sight of the fact that when you play, especially in Carolina, it is no fun, man. Like it's, it is just a, it is a horrible experience to have to go through, especially in the playoffs. There's no room. You're constantly under pressure and under duress. So as much as Ottawa is a really good team and, you know, they can, they can make it uncomfortable for you.

I think they, it'll, it'll be a tough, it'll be a tough sell. Like, it's going to be a very difficult matchup. It's, it almost feels like that's one that could go the distance and could be decided by one goal in game seven if it gets to that point. the ultimate shooting team, sorry, the ultimate shooting team versus the ultimate shot suppression team.

Like that'll be, that'd be a fun, listen, I'm with you, I'm winning, I'm hanging that Metro Division title for sure. I'm putting that banner up.

Because then, again, once you reach that conference final, Gwens, whether it be Montreal, Tampa, maybe Montreal and all Canadian one, just for us,

TSN guys, we can talk about some more Canadian teams. But again, I like that matchup. You see how the senators play. You see how, both teams struggle with goal-tending. Like neither team can say, well, at least we've got the better goal-tender in this matchup.

I prefer the senator's centerman. Now, depth on defense, how they play in their own zone. That Keandre Miller pickup is a great pickup because of how they defend. Like, he doesn't have to think as much, really. Again, no slight to him. He's got an excellent defenseman. But when you go to a system that's a man-on-man, you get to really rely on your physical attributes. And he has wonderful physical attributes.

So that's helped their team. But again, Ottawa, if they can get decent, if they can, if Linus Omar can be better than Brandon Bussie, I don't see why not. And you mentioned Frankie, Carolina is a tough place to play. And it is. This is going to be the first time in nine years that we're going to have the playoffs with a building full of senators fans. Okay. Because we had last year, but that was the Leafs. That's a different deal.

Okay. this is all Ottawa now I think they're ready they're going to be ready to go for that especially if they got to sit through two games of everyone talking about how loud Carolina is look out this is well I feel like this is going to happen I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna call Mendez and tell him to make some banner space just put a little a little reservation card up don't bother Mendez man he's got enough going on over there he might be one of the like one of the busiest PR guys in the league with everything that's gone on over there but Ian Mendez should get a few Hart Trophy votes at the end of this year. Yes. You're going to call him. He's going to hear you say, hey, we were talking on the podcast. He's just going to hang up.

He's sick of hearing the podcast. Yeah, I think my number's been blocked since January. Yeah, Mendez doesn't want to hear about that. No, I think, you know what? It's a good point by Cam about like the shot suppression of the senators and the fact that the hurricanes, the way they play, like everything just has to go to the net. So it would be a really intriguing matchup. It'd be curious to see how it goes, man.

It would be interesting. Second and third best expected goal share teams in the NHL. They also might set a record for most hits finish behind the goal line on the forecheck between the two of those teams would be a very fun series for sure. Let's go to the West here really quick because the Vegas Golden Knights roll on. They are now 4 and 0 under John Tortorella. And as we're talking about teams that could be sneaky, I mean, maybe it's not sneaky for Vegas.

They're star studded. But that we're sputtering for a while and now look like a nightmare matchup. Are we ready to put Vegas in that category, Cameron? I think so. The big thing Torrella talked about when he came in was he just wanted to free them up, let them play. With how few practices you have and how few opportunity he has to really teach them anything, they weren't going to change their system. It wasn't going to happen.

And again, we speak to goaltending. They're, I believe, one of the best teams when it comes to expect the goals against. They just haven't been getting any saves either. So they can just create more offense and figure out a way to play with confidence, which is a silly sounding thing for such a studded team, they're going to be a demon to deal with. You watch them play of late, they're an excellent team.

He seems to be really freeing up a few of their players, really understanding how they need to play, how they need to be handled. One thing that Torts doesn't get enough credit for is his ability to interact with players and his relationship building. Yes, there's going to be the instances where he's yelling, where he's demonstrative, where he's trying,

but that's his way of trying to figure out which player needs, which buttons pushed. I never played when I was with Columbus, but I was up for three straight weeks of scratches, and that involved a lot of conversations with torts. Because the season before, I had been with Pittsburgh and Mike Sullivan's, we had a lot of questions about kind of how Sullivan's coaching at that point.

So we got into a lot of conversations, and he's a very introspective man. He does a lot of thinking when it comes to how to deal with each person. Yes, sometimes it might be with a bit too heavy hand, but nevertheless, if he can figure out how to get to all these players, which it seems like he has, then the expectations we had coming into the season of Vegas are more likely to be reached than they were previous with Cassie.

And the thing with torts, like I played for torts. I played 10 games for him or 15 games for torts. And like I would always put it, put it this way. Like, he's the first guy to tell you when you've done something wrong, but he's the first guy to go right down the bench and patch you on the back when you've done something right. Like it works both ways with torts. Um, is he a short burst kind of coach?

Like, yeah, it feels that way. But this is also a different situation, not based on the amount of time that he has with the team, but based on the guys that he has. Like, he didn't have this kind of firepower with Columbus, with Philadelphia. He always had to get those teams to play really, really stingy because they just, they didn't have the super high-end skill that the Vegas Golden Knights have. So now, Torts almost has to, like, learn about a little bit, like, how do I maximize these guys and let them have free reign to a certain extent, which he's doing? And the other, you know, the big X factor is, you know, having Carter Hart, I mean, I'm sure people still want to avoid the conversation, but like, Carter Hart played for Torts before.

Like, this is a familiar relationship between the coach and the goaltender. And, you know, I think if you were looking at, okay, if they played the Edmonton, Oilers, let's say, in the first round or at some point in the playoffs. You know, Edmonton, based on stats, Connor Ingram would have a, you know, a better goal save above expected than anyone, Carter Hart, Aidan Hill, you name it. But like, Carter Hart's now won three games in a row. Like, he's, he's had a 900 plus save percentage over the last two games in a row. Like, there's more potential for Vegas's goaltending to find another level than there is

for Edmonton's. And the fact that Torts has all this high-end skill at his disposal, I think it's, you know, it's a new tool that he just really hasn't had access to in quite some time in the league. It's a good point. I mean, he usually takes over teams that need a John Tortorella style. It seems like to, I mean, Vegas, anyone can I think benefit from John Tortorella in the way that he coaches. But it's usually teams that have seemingly no other path to victory in the last couple stops for him. This is a team that I think can now do it in multiple ways.

We've given so much attention to the East Wildcard race that I think we've let the West one, which is, quietly pretty good, go a little bit undercovered, at least on our podcast here. So we got a couple minutes here. Nashville, L.A., San Jose, Winnipeg. I just want each of you to make the case for the team you think comes out of that mix. I'll make the case for the Jets here really quickly. And I think it's the fact that, like, health plays such an important factor. And the big one for me is Cole Perfetti.

Like, he got a high ankle sprain in the final preseason game and just never really got going. He was playing on a second line with like Jonathan Taves. And it wasn't working for a long time there. Now you fast forward and the team is healthy and they don't just rely on one line. Like Gabe Volardi is now playing on the second line. Cole Perfetti's healthy. Adam Lowry's not working his way back from hip surgery.

And you add in the fact that you have the best goalie or one of the best goalies in the NHL still. And the Jets feel different. And I think they just couldn't get to this place because of what they were up against. Sandberg was hurt. Pionk was hurt. It was just too much. It was all too much to overcome. And now, because of the, you know, everyone else around them, not grabbing it,

they have an opportunity to overcome all these things. So they put themselves in a really good spot that way. I'd have to say Nashville. Like, I really like how they've been playing. Obviously, I think a lot of people have their power plays, Hummon, their goal scores who needed to score early in the season are scoring now. They're getting contributions from defensemen. They really weren't anticipating.

to be big factors this year. Their third and fourth line are producing more. Their schedule down the way isn't terrible. They've only got four games left. Yeah, they got Minnesota, but that's a Minnesota team that might already be locked into a potential position. And they got San Jose and Anaheim, who's on a downfall. So I like how Nashville's playing.

Last night, yeah, they got a bit caved in. They won five nothing, but Annenin had to play excellent for them. Annen and Soros have been picking up their game of late, so they can continue that play. They can keep pushing the way they have. You've talked about Ottawa and their belief. Well, Nashville has had a belief throughout the year that they just weren't playing as well as they needed to play. Of late, they've been playing as well as they need to play.

Their team that's hungry, their team that's got a lot of veterans who have been in this situation before. So they can lean on the experience they have with stamp coach with March or so with O'Reilly. They've been so if they can continue to push the way they have been, I don't see them not making a plan. I see them giving a push the first round too. I wish I could say the sharks. I really do. They're such a fun team. But I think, unfortunately, the boring answer is the right answer here.

And that's the L.A. King. It's the one team that we're all kind of tired of. They always make the playoffs. They always lose to the Oilers. And you're just kind of like, oh, man, are we going to do this again with these guys? And yeah, I think we are. I mean, they're not just holding the spot down now. But let's keep it nice and simple.

What does the schedule look like? Five games left. Vancouver, Edmonton, which will be talking about. and then they finish Seattle, Vancouver, Calgary. And they have to do it on the road. And obviously nothing's guaranteed. But that's for their next five against teams that are done. That should be points to get.

And especially, I mean, geez, these are the Kings. I can't stand it, but I'll give them credit. They get to overtime. Every single game, they get to overtime, and they bank at least a point, and it's hard to catch a team that keeps getting the end. at least singles every single night. I think the Kings,

I think it's business as usual. The L.A. Kings in the playoffs and then out in the first round, same as it ever was. Tadventon or to Vegas in the first round? You know what? It's probably going to be Colorado. And that one, I mean, gee, that might be Colorado and three. Might be the prediction there.

All right. Good stuff, guys. Cameron, thanks so much for joining us. We're going to take a quick break right there. Sean and I'll be back. All right, we are back. thanks to Frankie and Cameron for some really good playoff preview coverage.

I hope I get my line right here, Sean. What have we learned? What have we learned, Sean? Well done. Really nice to you've done. I learned something from John Cooper. John Cooper had some comments after the Sabres game,

and a lot of people were focusing on what he said about the penalty box and the penalty box operator and the door being open, and those were good points. But that's not what I learned. I'm going to read you the quote, and then I'm going to tell you what I learned. This is John Cooper talking about the officiating after that game in this heavily hyped Sabers Lightning rematch from their 8-7 Barn Burner a few weeks ago, and there were 13 minor

penalties in the game. And John Cooper said, quote, every time you touch somebody, it's a penalty. Come on. Let the teams play. That's why everybody filled this building tonight. It sucked the fun out of the game. I learned that there is such a thing as an NHL coach who is aware of the concept of fun. What a great thing to find out. I just assumed that when you get your job as an NHL coach, they get, they hit you with the little men in black neuralizer and you forget concepts like fun, entertainment, fans in the building who are there to see something other than two teams grinding it out for a two one overtime game. Thank you to John Cooper. for teaching me that there is such a thing as an NHL coach

who understands the concept of fun and entertainment. Not that any of them are going to do anything about it, because they still hate us and they still want to grind the game into a dull, boring paste, but at least they know they're vaguely familiar with the concept. I didn't know that now I've learned it. To your point, I went out to a bar to watch the college basketball national championship game on Monday,

and so Michigan's going to be playing. The Tigers were on. there were at least what, I think there are multiple TVs in the bar that had lightning sabers on in Detroit, because I think everyone kind of knew there was going to be fireworks, and I kept glancing over, and every time I glanced over it, there was a scrub, there was Braden Point in a pile, right? Like, it was there was, it was there was, that is why everyone showed up. It's why everyone tuned in. I don't, I don't even want to talk about the fact that that could be a first round matchup now,

because it looked impossible a couple weeks ago when, you know, when they had that game. come on I almost said the words come on habs oh that would have been the first time in my life I'm not doing that go habs go something like that

no no but I'll say I I you know what please habs I hope that habs accumulate some points down the stretch that's the nicest way I can put it because Buffalo Tampa round one

uh oh I'll tell you what, good luck to the referees who have to game manage that for seven straight games. Have fun with that. The habs are in the toughest spot because of the tie break there, but the fact that that's a three-way tie with four games left is pretty interesting. Like, Nick Suzuki, I think, is going to be on my heart ballot this year, Sean. He's going to be a 100-point player who is a Selky finalist. I don't know how that player is not on a heart ballot. I thought that this was a possible step back year for the haps. It has been the exact opposite that they're on the gas.

What I learned this week is that if Sidney Crosby wants to start a TB12 like scam, I'm going to buy it because this guy does not slow down. His 21st consecutive point per game season, yes, that is all of them. I don't think he knows how to not be a point per game player in the National Hockey League. And I'll tell you something else. We all kind of know the point per game stat, which is he is adding now to his own record. that it was a big deal last year. And that's phenomenal. It's incredibly impressive.

I'm going to throw another record at you that Sidney Crosby is chasing. It's not quite there, but he's one year away. If he can get there this year, and here's my question, is Sidney Crosby going to get at least one vote in awards balloting this year from somebody? I'd say, yeah, he is. I think for sure, you know, someone's going to toss. A five spot. And it doesn't even, I'm not even talking heart trophy, although it could be for that.

I'm talking anywhere, Selky, you know, people like that would be 21 straight years for Sidney Crosby getting at least showing up on awards ballots, 21 for 21. And he'd be one short of the record. You want to take a guess at who, the only player to have gone their entire career longer than Sydney Crosby getting awards. of every single season of their career. They're at 22, Sidney Crosby's won away. Well, I was going to say Bobby Orr, but 22 rules that out. Lemieux?

It's not, it's not Mario, because he didn't, he didn't last that long. Yeah. It's a guy that I think is, is, I've made this case before, still arguably, maybe the most underrated superstar of his generation. That's Ray Bork. Okay. Every single year, year in and year out, was was on ballots and in fact you know for for ray bork he was on norris ballots every single

year uh sid's sid had had to dip into the lady bing a couple years so it's i don't know for shame but you know what 22 straight years even ovechkin hasn't done it you go down the list gretsky all the guys that you would normally think yager had at least one year where an injury or this or that not sid not ray bork it's pretty impressive i was trying to not say gretsky because I don't think you'd ask the question if it was Gretzky. So I tried to go, oh, is he doing a Pittsburgh Cemetery thing? But that's very good. Ray Bork.

Before we go, I just want to give a quick shout out to Scott Oak. He is going to be retiring after the season. The after-hour show on April 11 is going to be the last. Scott Oaks an institution, Sean. Like, this is a one heck of a career for him. Yeah, especially for us Canadian fans who, you know, he's been on Hockey Night Canada forever and sort of the face of that late game. and after hours and all of that.

And I'll just, I will tell you, I've, I've never met Scott Oak. But in this media world, we all love nothing more than to sit around and, and have a beer and talk about each other. I've never heard anyone say a bad word about this guy. And in fact, everyone I've ever heard talk about him, just glowing as to what a great guy he is and, you know, the work that he's done and on down the line. So all the respect in the world to Scott Oak and just as a viewer of Hockey Night in Canada,

a thank you to him for the great work that he's done year after year after year and being such a huge part of our Saturday Night's up. All right, that is going to do it for us. Thank you, Sean. Thanks to Frankie and Cameron as well. Three games on the NHL slate on Wednesday, Washington and Toronto, Buffalo and the Rangers, and Edmonton and San Jose. That's a big one for the sharks.

Haley has the next athletic hockey show tomorrow, along with Shane and Goldman. Enjoy the games and we'll talk to you soon.