The Athletic Hockey Show - Rick Tocchet wins as Vancouver turns the page on Boudreau, Gary Bettman says nobody tanks and Mike Murphy celebrates 50 years in Hockey

Episode Date: January 25, 2023

Rob, Jesse and Russo discuss the fallout from Bruce Boudreau's time in Vancouver, Rick Tocchet's debut behind the Canucks bench and the lessons to be learned on how this entire saga was played out. The guys discuss commissioner Gary Bettman's comments that nobody in the NHL tanks, Vegas joins Philadelphia in minimizing IPAD use on the bench, and Max Pacioretty's horrific injury with his 2nd ruptured achilles tendon in a year, and what Carolina will do to try to replace him.Mike Murphy from the NHL joins Rob and Mike to celebrate his 50 years in hockey as a player, head coach, assistant coach and an executive in the leagues front office. The guys talk about the inception and evolution of the NHL's situation room, if Murph has any regrets and what's next in retirement.Subscribe to The Athletic Hockey Show on YouTube: http://youtube.com/@theathletichockeyshowGet a 1-year subscription to The Athletic for $2 a month when you visit http://theathletic.com/hockeyshowGo to https://www.chime.com/nhlshow to sign up for a Chime Credit Builder Visa Credit Card today! Thanks to Chime for supporting the show.Sign up today at stitchfix.com/hockey to get $20 off your first purchase! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the Athletic Hockey Show. What's going on, hi, everybody. Welcome to the Athletic Hockey Show, the Wednesday Roundtable Edition. I am Rob Bezo from CBC Sports. Join, as always, by my line mites, Mike Russo, who is at home in Minnesota. How are he, sir? I'm doing great. How are you guys?

We're doing good. Jesse Granger, usually at home. He's in New York, and I know this is a podcast, so most people are listening. And hopefully, if you're maybe, watching this on YouTube, you'll understand this joke, but he looks like he's being held captive in this closet in New York. Are you okay? Blink twice if you're okay. I am okay. I promise this hotel room is nicer than it looks on this Zoom. It does. It looks dark and scary on the Zoom. It is not. It's actually a really nice hotel room right by Times Square. So I'm doing very well in New York.

One of those rare cities I've been to a lot of places. I've never been in New York. You believe I've never been to New York. So I do all the, I know, right? I'd do all the tourist crap. I'd probably go to it. It's a 40 minute flight from Toronto. I know. I know. It's just one of the, I've just never really had the opportunity to do it. And I should and I will. And I can name a million cities even around the world that I've been in, been to that would make you think, well, why have been in you've been in New York? But I haven't. Yeah. It's an awesome city. I love it. As a west coaster that like, I need my car. I need a garage to park my car and I need to drive everywhere like that I could never live here, but to visit, this city is awesome.

So as always, we got a jam-pack show. We always go over not just the stories from last night, but the stories throughout the entire week. I do want to mention second half of the show, Mike Murphy, who, of course, long-time senior VP of Hockey Operations, who spent the last 20-plus years in the, in the NHL situation room, war room, whatever you want to call it. He has now retired, so he's spending his retirement talking to bozos like us. and he's going to come on in the second half of the show and talk a little bit about what goes on behind the scenes.

And Mike was in the war room recently. So be sure to tune into that. But like I said, all the stuff from this week, including guys. I said it last week. Did I not? I said, I can't wait to continue talking about this Vancouver situation next week. Well, we're talking about the Vancouver situation because I say this with a little bit of apprehensiveness. but the craziness has finally ended.

Bruce Boudreau put out of his misery. Rick Tocke in as head coach, Sergey Gonchard, Adam Foote, alongside him as assistant coaches, made his debut yesterday in that 5-2 win over the Blackhawks. But obviously we need to talk as a whole about this soap opera that was the Bruce Boudreau era as coach in Vancouver. How long is it going to take for the stink of all that

to actually wash off? and people just talk hockey in Vancouver again. Russo? Well, they're one and all under Rick Tocke, and that's usually what it takes, right? If a couple more wins, and I think people will be turning the page rather quickly here.

It's not often that a team that's lost 10 of 12 and his position where they were in the standings is supporting the outgoing coach the way that the fan base in Vancouver was. I think it speaks to obviously how likable Bruce Boudreau is, but I think it just speaks to how badly this was handled by the Vancouver Canucks. You know, normally fans are calling for a coach's head. They're not screaming Bruce, there it is.

After, you know, a 10th loss in 12 games, they're screaming fire, Boudreau. That's the way it works in the National Hockey League and usually in all pro sports. And, you know, I don't know where this went awry with the Vancouver Canucks. You know, as reporters, I think it makes all of us uncomfortable to sit there and rip on leaks because we all depend on leaks basically to do our jobs and break stories. So I definitely don't behoove any of the reporters that had all the information. But it was handled poorly when it is telegraphed for two weeks, essentially, that Rick Tocket is coming in. And when it's reported for two or three days by the guys on Hockey Night in Canada that

Sergei Ganshaw and Adam Footer going in there onto the staff, you know that this was just handled poorly. This was not speculation, as Jim Rutherford said, in his press conference introducing Rick Tocket. This was telegraphed. Here's what's going to happen on this very day to the point that Bruce Boudreau told me that he booked his flight home a week and a half earlier for the day that he did. And you know, it's just, it's crazy the way that this went awry. And hopefully Jim Rutherford and Patrick Alvian learned a lesson for the next time is that, you know, like, look, everybody talks to out, you know, coaching candidates when the current coach is still there. But for this to get out the way that it did, it just didn't help anybody. It got out because

Jim Rutherford told everybody. Right. That's it. Forget leaks. He literally held a press conference and said, yes, I'm talking to candidates while Bruce Booder was still his coach. Yeah. And we talked about on last week's show or two weeks ago show where I lost my mind on that. My only point is that Jim Rutherford said that, but he didn't say who. And we knew the who and the when and the where and the why and all that stuff for days upon

days. And that's where this got really awkward. This wasn't just, you know, the pressure. of Bruce knowing that his job was on the line when Jim Rutherford said that. Clearly, that added a ton to it. But the fact that everybody knew who and when and why, I think that was a part of the issue here. I totally agree with Rob that it's like, I see what you're saying, Mike. Like, we knew the specifics because of the leaks. And if it were only the leaks, I could, then Rutherford would have a leg to stand on and say, all this speculation made this worse than it was. And he like blamed Elliot Friedman

for the coaching change, like craziness. Just craziness. He's been like outwardly criticizing his coach since training camp. We've been, how long have we been talking about this goddamn subject? It seems like it's been months. So to act like, well, the insiders got got that information and leaked it out and that was the reason all of this controversy is happening is nonsense. Yes, it made it worse, knowing that it was top.

and foot and Ganschar made it worse for sure because it was a really awkward situation. But that is not the only reason that this was this, that this was the mess that it was. As Mike alluded to, you know, ordinarily when a team is shitty, the first head they call for as the coach. We saw the Bruce, there it is, chit. We saw Bruce Boudreau get emotional on the bench. I mean, the only time you see a coach get emotional on the bench is if they're retiring. You know, ordinarily fans love to attack the coach. This was not the case.

Jesse, you handled the galat firing in Vegas, you know, the famous picture of him, you know, being ushered off in a taxi. Did any memories pop up when you're like, oh, my God, or is this just blow that one out of the water? So the taxi picture was actually when he got fired from Florida. Secure Florida, excuse me. From the Panthers. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But he did get fired very surprisingly in Vegas. I think Gerard Gallant was, like, as Bruce mentioned, how likable Boudreau is.

Like, Gallant is a likable guy. And Vegas, the city of Vegas, all its fans, loved Gerard Gallant. And he took the expansion team to the Stanley Cup final, that magical season. And they were only one year removed from, I mean, he only lost one playoff series since that Stanley Cup final. And that was the game seven in San Jose with the terrible call that got screwed up and changed the rules of the NHL because the Golden Knights got screwed over. so bad. So he hadn't really lost a playoff series that he actually lost. And the very next season halfway through, he gets fired. The reason there wasn't the, like, if it had been known that Gerard Gallant was going to be fired, I think it probably would have been similar. I think you would

have seen chance in the stadium for, for Gerard Gallant. The fans loved him. The players loved him. The difference was it was so out of left field. Like no one saw it coming. I was in Ottawa on the road. and I remember waking up in my, in my, I'm still sitting in my bed in my hotel room and I see the email saying, Golden Knights had fired Gerard Delant and hired Pete DeBoer in the same press release. I actually copied, I went and copied the email that it was from and pasted it into my Google doc and blew the font size up to make sure it was not a fake email because I thought somebody was like punking me, sending me this email.

Because to fire Galant, which is already the craziest. move ever. But then to hire him with the enemy, Pete DeBoer, in the same press release, seemed like this can't be a real email. So yeah, so that whole situation, similar, but because it came out of nowhere and no one saw it coming, there wasn't that like outpouring of support like there was for Boudreau. Yeah. Yeah, I'm just, like I said, the stink is going to take a while to really go away on this one. They did actually look like a bit of an inspired team, especially in that third period last night, but it was, again, Chicago. Yeah, no doubt.

Kyle Davidson went from being upset to very happy at the end, right? Even though that, even though Gary Bettman says nobody tanks, look, you know, I, you know, the one thing I will say, to look at the bright side here, you know, the one thing that I had a really cool conversation with, with Boudreau a couple days ago, and hopefully everybody read that story, because I think it, one shows you how, a guy really handles a situation like this with class. But I think he looked also at the bright side. You know, what he said to me is like in Minnesota when he was fired here, you know,

he's fired before practice. He left the practice rink before all the players got there, never had a chance really to say goodbye other than text to him after the fact. That happens usually in every way that a coach is fired, right? It usually happens on an off day, on a, you know, after a game when the players have long gone. things like that. And what he said that was really special about this one is that because all the, you know, how this was handling everybody knowing that he was gone is that he walked in the room and they all cried together. They all thanked each other. He said one star player on that

team, who I won't mention because he doesn't want to embarrass him, you know, came into his office and was uncontrollably audibly crying and hugging him in front of the other assistant coaches. You know, that is stuff that normally doesn't happen. So I think that's one of those things, if this is it for Bruce Boudreau. You know, he's 68 years old. You know, who knows if he's going to get another opportunity. But if this is it, he'll remember it for the rest of his life. And just to wrap this thing up, the Vancouver conducts are now paying three coaches.

Travis Green, Bruce Boudreau and Rick Tuckett. Just wanted to just want to throw that in there. Let's keep talking coaches, though. We've got a couple other topics that involved the guys behind the bench. If they weren't doing that, they could resign Horvieve. vet. I'm just kidding. Tack that money on there, right? The Panthers were down to 5-1

of the Rangers the other night with nine minutes and 21 seconds left. So kind of one of those things, well, we're going to see this game kind of wrapped up. But Paul Maurice wasn't ready just to wrap it up. He yanks his goalie. It almost looked like it was going to start working. They scored almost

right away to make it 5 to 2. Igor Shisterc had tried scoring at one point, put it about a foot, foot and a half away from actually putting it in the net. And then the Rangers eventually scored with about three minutes left into the empty net. What do you guys think of pulling a goalie with 921 left in a 5-1 game? Jesse, the goalie, we always start with you with these topics.

I love it. I love it because, I mean, if you don't pull the goalie, you're essentially surrendering. We are not going to win this game and we have given up. Yes, there are scenarios where goal differential can. come into play. But for the most part, it doesn't really make a difference if you lose by 6-1-7-1-8-1. Yeah, it makes no difference. So I personally have no problem with it. I think it's good to try to get the win. It's good to give Igor Shusirkin a chance to score a goal. Here in New York,

I actually went up to Rangers practice yesterday. And I was talking to him in the locker room and I was like, man, that was so close. And he's like, yeah, Charlie Lindgren, so Lindgren hasn't scored a goal in 45 games for the Rangers this year. And Ryan, he goes, or yeah, sorry, yeah, he, he would, he would not have been happy if I would have scored before him. So I couldn't, I couldn't score before he did. But, but yeah, like I said, I, I think maybe as a goalie, you were thinking I'd be like, nah, keep the goalie in the game. But like, try, at least try. Russo. Yeah, I like it as well.

I mean, Dean Everson does it all the time. I mean, sometimes I think it's a little weird, but hey, you might as well try. Speaking of goalies, almost scoring Freddie Anderson against the wild last week, put one right up the middle. And if Brodean didn't pick it off at the red line, that thing was, that thing was postmarked for the empty net. That would have been awesome. I don't think I've ever covered a goalie goal in person in all my years covering hockey. I would give anything to see one. for a while I thought Capo Cacan would get one here.

He goes for it all the time. But hey, you know, sometimes I think it's ridiculous. But if you can, you know, spur your team along and show them that, you know, that there's no quit. I think that's a good thing. And remember last year, Florida tied for the league lead with multiple goal comebacks. This year they don't have one, strangely enough. Same with Minnesota. They each tied for nine multiple goals, comebacks.

last year, led the league, they each are the only two teams without any. How about how crazy of that? I'm not going to pretend to know these numbers because I've heard different numbers get thrown out. But people are trying to figure out when is the ideal time to pull the goalie. I mean, since the first face off, it's always been with about a minute left, you pull your goalie. And more and more people are breaking down the numbers and saying the more time you leave yourself, it's better that way. So Patrick, Patrick Waugh started that. Yeah, he did. Yeah, like I think it was first game. Wasn't it his coach of the avalanche? It was like six minutes left and he yanked his goalie. So I think we may start seeing it again.

I just like exactly what Jesse said. The towel is not being thrown in. At 5-1 with nine minutes left, usually you see people going, I want to beat the traffic and get the hell out of here early. If your coach is never going to throw the towel in, I think it's good for the game. Yeah, I think, and I agree with you, I think we're going to see it more. I think just sports in general are starting to listen to the analytics. Like you see it in football. Coaches are going for it on fourth down more. They're going for it two point conversion more.

In basketball, they're shooting less mid-range jumpers. Like every sport, they're starting to listen to the math. And I think in hockey you can list. To me, though, it's not just about the math. Like there's going to be a number, like a time left in the game and how many goals you're down that come. But to me, it's more about is my team generating at five on five? If you're creating scoring chances at five on five, I think it's probably best to wait because one mistake and now you're down to another goal.

But if you just aren't doing anything at five on five, and it's like, man, we might not score one goal the rest of this game, let alone four to try to come back. To me, that's when like it really makes sense to pull your goalie early. I love experimentation and coaching. I really do. And, you know, we've seen other things, you know, the Leafs this year, five forwards on the power play. I like just, I like it. I'd like it, especially if it makes the game better. Speaking of coaching, you know, last week we spent a good portion of the show, throwing John Tororella very much under the bus. And we didn't get to one story about him

that kind of has taken on the life of its own as well. He's banned the iPads on the bench. Since then, Bruce Cassidy's kind of come out and Jesse, I know you wrote a story about this. We'll start with you at a second, but kind of saying they're in the process of evaluating it. They look like they're second of the party, but they were actually talking about doing this for a while. We've seen it as fans, as people who cover the game, the second players go to the bench. They've got an iPad and they're looking at it. And of course, on the surface, it was put in place so you can immediately analyze something that perhaps will help you for the rest of the game. But I think coaches are starting to realize players are just becoming fans.

You know, if they try between the legs move and it didn't work, they want to see, oh, how close we're was I to making that move. They become fans on the bench and maybe it's a bit of a distraction. What did you find out, Jesse? Yeah, we asked Bruce Cassidy just to kind of get his thoughts. And he joked, he's like, we look like the second man to the dance. But he said that he was actually talking about with assistant coach Ryan Craig prior to Tororella coming out and banning him. And Cassidy's definitely, his stance on him isn't as strong as Tortorellas in terms of like, they're just gone. I think if the Golden Knights do make a change, he mentioned we're evaluating it right Now, if they do, I think it's going to be just limiting them to timeouts, to TV timeouts,

to when the play isn't going on on the ice. I spoke to Jack Eichel, who is, by all accounts, the guy who uses the iPad more than anyone in Vegas. And even he said that he has already started just doing it during timeouts, but he likes to look at it. He thinks there's benefits to it. Jonathan Marcia, so, one of the most fiery players in the league, of course he was like all fired up when I asked him about Tortorella. He's like, he's like, we're grown men. We should be able to decide what we want to watch and what we don't. What's he going to do next? Tell us what we should eat for pregame meal or how long our nap can be. But that's just, that's just Marsha. So being Marcia. So like I talked to a bunch of players and it was kind of like,

I don't think the Golden Knights, I don't think it's the same issue that it is with the flyers. And I think if you look at the team makeups, it's hard to compare those two because the flyers. are a young team and like Tortorale even said, like, this team struggles with staying in the flow of the game and understanding what's happening in the game. I think that's the characteristics of a young team that's still figuring out their way in the league, whereas the Golden Knights are one of the more veteran teams in the league. They've got, they're collecting captains in Vegas, so they've got like eight former captains. I think they're a little more equipped to, to, to, like, no win to use the iPads and when not to. And that's part of the reason Cassidy isn't as

strong in this opinion. But Cassidy also said, Tortorella is not going to be the last coach to do that. So it's going to be interesting to see if other teams follow suit, especially if the Flyers get some positive impact out of it. Yeah, I, you know, I don't have much of a feeling on this. I trust the coaches in this, in this circumstance. I don't know how you could, you know, with as fast as hockey goes, how you can check shifts and check plays in a real-time mechanism. This is not football where you can go to the bench and spend five, six minutes there. This is a game flow sport. A lot of times coaches will, you know, it's not, especially if you're matching up, you know,

you'll be looking at the iPad. Next to you know, you might be out there, right? I mean, you might be playing every third shift. It just, I don't know what you really achieve other than, you know, really quickly. like, oh, that's how I flub the shot. Well, you just, you flub the shot. It was, you know, like, it doesn't, it's, you know, what did it hit? Like, there's no reason for you to know it right away. Um, and so I, especially since they watch so much film in between games too, right? It's not like you're not going to see it. That's the only time you're going to be able to see it.

It should be one of those, to me, the iPad should be on the bench for the assistant coaches that if all of a sudden during a TV time out, the, the video coach thinks that a, that a player needs to know something. You radio the assistant coach. You could have a cueed up, show the player real quick. I don't know why two players, three players need to be huddled on the bench looking at an iPad. I think where they can use it the most, and like this is what the players kind of said to me too is, is special teams. At five on five, you're not going to learn a lot on that. Like you said, you're just looking at the specific, did I miss that pass or whatever? But they all said it's, it is valuable after a power play to go back and look and see where the guy's sticks were.

Like, did he have a stick on the inside? Did he have it on the outside? Was it on the ice? Like to me, you mentioned it's not like football. Special teams are where it's kind of structured and like everything's kind of still. And I think you can pick things apart from penalty kill or power play. But that should be really the only time they, like, that's really the only tool that they can use it for in my opinion. Curious to see if other coaches do this.

Because I think it was Chris Kreider, wasn't he, that grabbed the iPad at one point and they caught him just tossing it across the bench to say, enough. Like this is, this is. And I agree with you, Jesse. see, like special teams, if a power play is not working, it's not clicking, and you could look and say, hey, we should be set up more here. Because look at the way, you know, that to me makes sense. Missing a breakaway and running to the bench so you can check out what happened, does it make sense?

One more thing before we go to break, guys, this one just, it made me wince and it made me feel so bad for him. Max Patcheretti just returned from a torn Achilles tendon, which when I hear that injury, I don't know, but you guys are certain injuries that just make you. Yeah. You almost feel it. And I've never had it. I've never torn my Achilles, but it just seems like one of the worst injuries ever.

Did it again after scoring three goals in five games with the Cains. This isn't just this is this is this is bad. He's going to be gone a while again. And you just you got to feel for him, don't you? Russo will start with you. Yeah. I mean, I was there and saw it. And it was so obvious what happened.

He immediately was a non-contact injury. He immediately grabbed for it. The way I completely agree with you. The term ruptured Achilles just gives me the eb-jeebis, right? I mean, it has for my entire life. And I just can't imagine, you know, that injury happening to me. If it happened to me, I would wake up in two, three months weighing like 800 pounds. I can tell you that.

You know, it's horrible. And obviously, Jesse has a, you know, he knows Max from covering him in Vegas so he could speak to his character and how he'll handle this. But it was so absolutely obvious. And now it'll be really interesting. how Carolina reacts to this, right? He was supposed to be their, quote, trade deadline pickup. And now suddenly they're going to be able to go into the LTI situation and make a move.

And I know Pierre LeBron talked to Don Wethel about that yesterday. And everybody could read Don's quote where he said he's going to handle this patiently. This is a team that traditionally doesn't give up a huge price for rentals. He'd like to make a hockey deal, which is why maybe a Tim O'Meyer or somebody like that might work more so than a Beauoravet. But we'll see. You know, just just terrible. Yeah, it sucks to see for Max. Like you mentioned, I know him pretty well.

He was one of the leaders here in Vegas. He's really good guy. He works so hard. Like, you think, like, man, this guy's injury prone. Like, maybe he's not, like, treating his body right. Like, this guy is an absolute tank. Like, he, I've never seen a hockey player in better physical condition than Max Patcher ready. And you talk to his teammates.

He is first one in the gym, last one out of the gym. He treats his body like a temple. This guy is he's all about nutrition. He's not that old, but he does have a lot of miles on the wheels. He's played a lot of hockey. But yeah, he just, for the last three or four years, he just cannot seem to stay healthy. Every time he comes back, it's something else. You got to feel for the guy because there's nothing he can do.

Like I said, he's all the things he can control, how good a shape he's in, how he takes care of his body. He's doing all of it. to the maximum and he still cannot stay on the ice. It's it really sucks to see. He had a not that I'm a doctor, but I'll play one on this podcast. He had a minimally he had a new procedure for Achilles, a minimally invasive one. And, you know, one has to wonder now if he'll go have the one that is traditional and, you know, hopefully that fixes it. Because that would be my biggest thing to get back to Rob's point about the term Achilles and the feeling that we all get. I

think when we think of that injury is, is now I got to think mentally. You know, I know that they say that in the boot that you're so secure and all that stuff, but I got to think mentally, just training. Like these guys, what he's going to have to do to train again and, you know, the stuff that they have to do between squats and jumps and things like that, how can you ever feel comfortable doing it again? Because nobody wants to experience this injury again. And so I feel for him. I hope that he's able to come back from this, but it's going to take not just a physical toll on him to deal with the rehab of this injury, but I kind of think mentally, this is going to be just brutal. I dislocated my kneecap a couple of years ago playing hockey and the kneecap like twisted around. It wasn't nearly as bad as

this Achilles. And I remember the first time I like went down into a butterfly slide on that knee just like not even in a game. Just like I'm on the ice for the first time months after the injury. Doing that first dropping to the knee was absolutely horrifying. I can't imagine with the Achilles. It's happened twice now. Max Patchretti's a stronger man than we are. Wish him all the luck in the world, and hopefully we do see him back on the ice in the least amount of time as possible.

We are going to be back doing this after the break with former player, former coach, and now former senior VP of Hockey Operations, Mike Murphy. So don't go anywhere. Well, Rousseau, our next guest has been very, very busy for the last 50 years. I mean, first he plays over 800 games in the NHL, that just slides over to being a head coach or an assistant coach

with teams like the Kings and the Leafs and the Canucks and the Rangers and the Sends. And then wanted to keep busy. So for the last 23 years, was working for the NHLs, the senior VP of hockey operations, much of that time spent in the war room, which I'm pretty sure we're going to talk a little bit about in the next few minutes. So I would say he's earned his right to a little bit of rest in retirement. Mike Murphy joining us on the Athletic Hockey.

show. Thanks so much for doing this. Hey, guys, my pleasure. Thank you for having me on. You're the only thing on the agenda today other than I have to clean the garage a little later. Welcome to retirement, right? I mean, you've been so busy, like I said, for 50 years and it's got to feel weird. And the one question I want to ask you, I know you haven't been retired long. Your last day was New Year's Eve, but how does it feel actually watching a hockey game just as a fan? Like just sitting on the couch and watching a game and just enjoying it maybe with a frosty beverage and not trying to pick out certain things the way you've been doing for the last 50 years. Definitely different, but a lot better. I enjoy the game so much. And we have so many great players in the game that occasionally when you're sitting in the video room, you're just, you're managing a whole bunch of games.

So you're really not paying attention to the Crosby's and the McDavid's and the, uh, Copatars and all the great players that are out there and watching their game specifically. So I watch it more as a coach when I'm sitting here watching by myself, like looking at forechecking, looking at breakouts, power play setups, penly killing. Penly killing and power play are such remarkable skills because I really think their areas coaches can really make a team better in. So when I'm in the video, I'm never pay attention to that. Now that I'm sitting here watching as a fan, it's awesome to sit here and be a,

to be an armchair coach again. Have you been an armchair, I should say, you know, sitting at home, you know, now analyzing goal reviews and things like that and say, you know what, that was a bad decision by the situation. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. I do.

But I really defer to them because whenever you're doing one of these, the influence of the referees on the call is significant. Our group is terrific. The group in Toronto, Chris King, Rod Pazma, McKay, Whitmore, doing an outstanding job. They really know what they're doing. They've been there a long time. And they rarely get things wrong.

In fact, they always get things right. So I sit back and I just kind of defer to them and say, hey, I don't even need to drill down in this because I really don't want to and I don't have to. So I'll leave it to those guys. Murph, I was in the situation room about last Saturday, I believe it was, or Sunday, watched eight games with Rod Pazma and Kay Whitmore. Bill McCreery was in there as well. And, you know, as you know, Murph, I've been in there probably four or five times shadowing you guys, have written a couple stories on it. And I was struck by the evolution of the room.

Now, I'm not just talking back when you were looking at 10-inch TVs, but just the fact that you have the retired ref in there. And there just seems to be, you know, there were 30 seconds before there's even a challenge. you guys really know if it's going to be a good goal or a bad goal. Can you discuss that evolution from when you first started when you were in that sort of closet there? Yeah, I sure will. And one of the neat things, and they never get enough credit is NHL technology. They've done so much for our room. And you are absolutely right.

Many times we know the answer 30 seconds before the game even stops, whether it's a challenge or an offside. In fact, very much with off sides, the guys will have them frozen. the frame will be frozen. So when the linesman pick it up, they go, oh, oh, yeah, okay, sorry, what's the time? Like, they'll already know it. But to tell you a little bit about the genesis of the video room, and I started working with the NHL in 99, and we really didn't have a video room. There was a gentleman by the name of Damia Etchevaryetta, who now works for player safety.

He was the first person to start a video room. And his main job and my main job when I came on board was to search the games looking for player safety issues. And back in the early 2000s, the game was much different than it is now. There was a lot of vicious plays, high sticks, cross checks, slashes, you know, slew foots, boards, plays that were outside what you'd call hockey plays. were nasty plays. So we were always looking for that because Colin Campbell was handling all the discipline at that time.

So that was kind of the genesis. We got more and more TVs and we built VCRs. And then we started to watch these games a little closer to try to get the answers. And back in those days, many times, games weren't even telecasts. Like you, Florida only did a partial games. Even the Blackhawks didn't do all their games. They didn't do home games. So we really had to scramble to get the right answer on some of these player safety issues.

2003, I think it was 2003. It might have been two. Kind of the genesis of what really came was we were watching a game in the video room looking for player safety issues. And Detroit was playing Calgary in Calgary. And there was a play close at the goal line. And the puck didn't cross the goal. line. It was close, but it didn't cross. And they called it a goal. So we didn't have any recourse. It was the people at the arena that made those decisions. So now Calgary gets a goal that they

shouldn't get. And 30 seconds later, Kenny Holland called the GM of Detroit. And he said, guys, enough's enough. We appreciate what these guys doing the rink. We need a central location where we've got smart people working there every night are making these decisions. They're going to bring consistency, they're going to bring accuracy, they're going to bring speed. We need a central location. So that was kind of the genesis. At the next general managers meeting, it got decided upon that we would get this room going. And it's evolved from there, small TVs to bigger TVs to VCRs to TiVo machines. You might remember those TiVo machines.

And then finally we got some HD games and suddenly we got the different areas where you could review plays without having a VCR tape. And then we went to this fiber optic and the software programs we have today. So it's really been an evolution and it's still evolving. I know right now we're in the process or the guys. eyes in Toronto, we're in the process of building a whole new room. They're going across the hallway and make the room bigger and better. So we have more large screens, TVs. And right now, I think we have nine large screens, but I think they want like 12 so that there's never a game that's on.

And we rarely do we have 12 games on at one time, but sometimes we have nine or 10 on. So you hate to go to, when I say go small, we go to a 42-inch screen as opposed to a 90-inch screen. They want to have every game on a big screen TV monitored by one individual who analyzes all the details of that game. When there's an issue in the game, they direct it to the front desk. And that's a guy like King or Chris King or Rod Pazmer or Colin Campbell many times. And they'll handle that situation, whether it's a challenge or review, an issue with a penalty. So that's kind of been the evolution. The introduction of the retired official has been an excellent addition because they bring expertise under rules. They speak the official's language.

So when they get on the headset with an official, there's a strong bond and a strong trust there. So it's really helped credibility in our room and the trust in our room. And I think now officials look to us to help them. they want the game right, they want the calls right, they want us to serve the game better, and they want to serve the game better. So I think that's kind of how the whole thing has come about. And, you know, I just think the guys in there do a terrific job,

and I can only relay back that the NBA, you know, I want to say about 10, 12 years ago came in, they'll see what we did. The NFL has been in to see how we operated at that. and the Major League Baseball's coming to see how we operate. And most of it was to see how does this central location work? And they saw what we did. And they've all built now facilities where all their decisions are made at a central location.

So I think, as I said before, consistency, the same guys are going to make the call tomorrow that as they make tonight. So I think consistency and accuracy and speed, believe it or not. And I know speed is a real problem because you want to get these decisions. done with and over with and the game started because nothing's worse than you're really enjoying a game and all of a sudden it stops for two, three, four minutes, whether it be baseball, basketball, hockey, you want those decisions made quickly. And I think our guys have really got got that in mind when they're making these calls.

Mike, I want to ask you, as you know, some calls are black and white. The puck went in, the puck didn't go in. We've got the footage. but sometimes no matter how many, you know, cameras you have or angles you have, there are certain things that are kind of debatable and goal interference is one that always kind of gets brought up. I'm wondering how many times there are disagreements because, you know, good example, I mean, Canada, the world junior final, that goalie interference call that everybody

talked about. Yeah. I've talked to a bunch of people, 50% of them said, that's goal interference. 50% of them said that's the worst call ever. Are there disagreements in there? Do you ever have two people saying that's goal interference versus no, absolutely not? Not a ton of times, but yes, we do. Sure. And we, the common denominator or the bottom line on it is, what is the call on the ice? Okay. So if the call on the ice is not clearly wrong and Mike Murphy thinks it is wrong and Chris King thinks it isn't wrong, the call on the ice rules. So that's, we say that a lot of times like, boy, this is close, guys. I don't know about this one. geez, but I don't think we could change the call.

And a lot of times we'll even ask ourselves, if the call went the other way, how would we rule on this? And we say the same thing very often. We couldn't change the call on the ice. So that's kind of the bottom line, the foundation for the video room. Don't make changes unless it's clearly wrong and the video supports that. And the referees are kind of told to make that distinct call on the ice. I know earlier on when video replay came in, there were times that it almost looked like a referee. He was like, I don't know what to do here because of, you know, it's going to go to replay.

Now they're told to make that distinct call. Is that correct? Yeah, for sure. They have to make a call. And we always, the first question is what's your call, guys? Because the game has evolved to the point where it's so fast and so the players are so talented. Now we've got two referees and four officials out there. A lot of times, they'll huddle and say, geez, I saw the puck go in the net.

But when they come out of the huddle, they'll say, Yeah, but it was high-sticked. Oh, I didn't see that. Okay, so now the huddle has, they formulated a different ruling than initially when they pointed goal. So they'll come on the headset and we'll say, what's the call guys? And they say, well, initially we pointed goal. But after huddling, we think this stick is high that deflected the puck into the net. And we'll say, okay, guys, that's great.

Go and make the announcement. We're going to review this play and we'll give you the answer. And that's, so now again, the ruling on the ice is the high stick. We got to prove it's not a high stick. And even though it might be close and you're sitting at home saying, boy, this isn't a high stick. It is the call on the ice. And we're clear with video that the call on the ice was incorrect. To preach a little bit, I think that every single beat writer should take a tour and sit in.

Not only the situation room, but the Department of Player's Safety, because I think it's incumbent on a lot of us to educate, you know, fans about what goes on in there. You know, you just mentioned Damien. Um, I've sat into the Department of Player's Safety as many times. In fact, I did it the day after I was in Toronto. I did it in New York the other day. Um, you know, I've sat in with George Peros and Damien a gazillion times and the, you know, I always get a kick out of fans that are like, oh, they just hate the wild. They hate the Leafs. They hate the Ranger. There is none of that go that goes on. These guys have integrity and credibility. And, and, you know, I really think that everybody should go in and just see how the process works to better, you know, educate fans when it,

when a play happens in real time. My favorite part of this new, uh, latest trip to the situation room, Merv was Coley Campbell. It was like the voice of God coming out of the ceiling. There's a camera there that he's able to pay attention to all the games from his living room couch basically. Yeah. And, and he's got a microphone there. And sometimes you forget he's even on there. And next thing you know, he just chimes in and starts talking. It's hilarious. Yeah. Well, And people talk a lot about who watches the most games in hockey in the world.

Nobody watches more games than Colin Campbell. He is on the camera or in the video room every night. And it's great to have him there because he's another voice of reason. And a lot of times he's got a great high-definition camera that can zoom right in on the screen. So it's as if he's sitting beside you. and, you know, we'll be doing the challenge or the review. And part of my job was to kind of monitor what Coley thought because his opinion is really relevant when it gets down to do we change it or do we not. And I would say, Coley, what are you thinking here?

Are you seeing this? And we kind of go through the rehearsal of what we talk about and some of the criteria we look at when we're doing a challenge or review. and he has been a real advocate for everybody having an opinion, everybody contributing, everybody looking at plays. And, you know, as I said, nobody watches more than him. And he'll be, sometimes he'll be at a governor's meeting or he'll be in Florida at a GM meeting. He'll be on the camera. As soon as the game starts, he'll be on the camera.

And sometimes he'll say, hey, I have to run out for a half hour. I won't be on the camera and then we're on our own at that point. But very seldom does he miss any action at all. Mike, you alluded to the fact that a phone call from Ken Holland kind of helped spearhead the war room. I imagine that wasn't the last phone call you got from an angry GM. I imagine that's part of the job description. And now that you're retired, you know, maybe you could allude to the fact of what GM calls you

the most and says, what the hell were you guys thinking? because I imagine you get phone calls from GMs all the time. Well, I will say this. In the early days, we got a lot more calls. We took a lot more abuse than we do now. I think a great deal of credit goes to the hockey operations department, Colin, Chris, Rod, the commissioner. We've educated and we continue to educate the general managers,

the coaches, the video coaches on all these types of plays. place, whether it be video review, coaches challenge, even supplementary discipline. George in his group, George Perros in his group, educate the GM. So this ongoing education process gives the NHL great transparency. So a lot of times they'll know it's a 50-50 call and it went against them. They might call and ask and we'll just say, guys, this is really close. And we opted for the call on the ice. They don't like it, but they get it.

And very often when general managers call, they're rarely wrong. They usually have a good point. And I think it's part of our job in there was to listen, to pay attention to what they are saying, and then to say to them, listen, here's what we saw. And I'm going to go back and review it. And I'm going to get back in touch with you, ASAP. And I think they appreciated that type of transparency and that type of forward thinking when we were doing the work in the video room.

And we did not get a lot of calls at the end. We would get emails and text messages. And sometimes they would call. And most of the time they were correct. And there was an error made on the ice if that was the case. But in many instances, they were very, very, the general management of very good, really a good group to deal with. When I was in there the other day, Murph, all of them. we're talking about, you know, what a loss you were going to be to that whole process.

But then they started talking about you and what a character you are. And they all thought that you would have been an incredible general manager in the National Hockey League. Was there ever a point where you wanted to go that route after coaching? You know, yes, yes, there is. And I think that that would have been something I would have looked forward to doing. And I did have a couple of opportunities. I didn't get the job.

I had enough of the, and I still love the coaching part of the game. And I got tired of the coaching carousel. I saw good coaches get relieved of their jobs. I got relieved twice in situations where I thought, I did a pretty good job, but, you know, we weren't good enough. So you understand the dynamics of being a coach that that happens. You don't like it. And when this opportunity came up,

I jumped at it because it gave me the opportunity to live in Toronto. My wife was there. My kids were there. My grandkids were there. And I said, boy, that might be something. And if I do a good job, there's a good chance I'm not going to be on a carousel again. So that was part of my decision to leave coaching. And then general manager opportunities did present themselves, but it didn't come through.

For whatever reason, I didn't get the job. And I was fortunate. It's all, as they always say, it's nice when you've got, when you've already got a job and somebody offers you another one. You can really look at in depth at the position and make an accurate decision, especially when you're already getting them, already are employed. And I think that was the case. Many times, I had a really good job. I was working for really good people. And I enjoyed it.

I enjoyed it. What got to me in the end, and it is tough, is there's so many late nights. You know, you're there. I would start at three in the afternoon and usually go in and clean up emails and do administrative stuff. And then the games would start. And we would often be there until 2.30 in the morning. And we have such a great group that at the end, I was doing less and less. They were doing more and more, which was right.

It was good. But they needed, these guys needed to do that. They needed to be the bosses of that video room. And they have, they have achieved that, deserved it, and have done a great job with it. But it was a point in time where my bucket list was getting long and I wasn't going to be able to do any of it if I didn't sooner or later draw a line in the sand and say, okay, I've got to do this. I actually talked to Colin about it probably about a year ago. And I said, you know, this might, what do you think about this? So we kind of kicked it around and we're very similar in our ages and very similar in the

history of our hockey lives. And he said, yeah, okay, let's think about it. Let's talk about it. And we decided December 31st of this year was going to be the date. You know, it was pretty cool because it was almost like I was getting eulogized by everybody. I say, guys, I'm not dying. I'm just leaving. I'm actually back in the video room in mid-February.

we have an outdoor game and some of our guys go to operate the outdoor game because we need people on site for video review and coaches challenge, etc. So I'm going to come in for three or four days in the middle of February and probably be around in the playoffs because we lose a lot of guys that go out and run series. Rod will go out, Rod Pazma, Kay Whitmore will go out. Coli and Stephen Walkham often travel so they might not be available. So I'll go into video room and assist Chris King and the loggers during the playoffs that maybe not all the rounds, but probably the first couple of rounds. So there's some things on the agenda for me still that will continue to do. Well, you said you didn't want a carousel.

I would call 23 years at the job not a carousel. That's pretty good there. But I mean, as I mentioned off the top, like 50 years. in hockey and it seems like you just slid from one job to the next. I know, like I said, you just retired a few weeks ago, but have you had a chance to really sit back and kind of look back at your career as a player, as a coach, as, you know, somebody in the war room and kind of just reflect on some of the people who really helped you along the way on, let's call it a hat trick of a career in hockey.

Yeah, no, no question about it. I have so many people to be grateful for so many people to be thankful to people who gave me opportunities, people who stood by me when it was difficult. And I mean, I can go back to people like Fred Sherrill, Bob Polford, I kind of put in Emil Francis, Roger Nielsen, Pat Quinn, Cliff Fletcher,

Bob McCam and Mike Kitchin, Tom Watt, Pat Burns, of course, the commissioner, Gary Bettman, Colin Campbell, that just comes off the top of my head. I've been so lucky and most of those people gave me chances when you think, well, how come? You know, how come? I mean, but it's been a, it's been a room.

And a lot of those people are still friends of mine. I still stay in touch with a lot of them. I still talk to them. You know, aside from the great group that work in the video room now, these are guys who really have given me. I didn't even mention Quinvo or Crawford, you know, some of the coaches that I've been good friends with. So it's been, it's been, I've been really lucky.

I've been really lucky. It's been, it's been, you know, I've been blessed. That's all I can say. And I say that truthfully. Even my wife says all the time, boy, you're blessed. What happened to you in your career. And, you know, it was like one door closed, another one opened. Another door closed, another one opened.

And it was just, you know, you don't get 52 years without a lot of breaks. And I had breaks for sure. Yeah, well, one of those breaks now is you have to go and clean your garage because you don't have to go to work and you can watch hockey as a fan. Congratulations on just an incredible career. Thanks so much for doing this. And yeah, slowly right off to the sunset. I know you have a few more gigs in that war room, but right off to the sunset, enjoy retirement.

Thanks so much for doing this. Guys, a real pleasure being on with you. Thanks for having me. And I thank the great game of hockey. I still enjoy it every day. Thanks, Murph. And enjoy it now. Thanks so much. See you, boys.

Big thanks to Mike, and hopefully he goes and cleans out that garage right about now, so he doesn't get in trouble with his wife. Stick around after the break. Rapid Fire, so don't go anywhere. Okay, my favorite time of the show and yours, Rapid Fire. Guys, the Bo Horvatt Trade Watch continues. Of course, we're going to start hearing rumors and, you know, what teams are interested.

Right now, we're seeing Boston, Carolina, and Detroit also linked to Bo Horvatt. How quick does this get done? Your thoughts on Bowen where he might end up. Jesse? Yeah, I mean, I feel like it's one of those things that's probably going to go down to the wire just because deadlines make things happen. I feel like Vancouver's going to be asking for a lot

and deservedly so. He's a great player. So because that price is so high, I just don't see GMs willing to pay it right away. They're not getting him for a discount. I feel like it's probably going to take to the deadline. Can, if, if Boston adds this guy, can you, like, this team's already slaughtering the NHL. I don't think, I think, like, you ever see, like, in fantasy football or fantasy hockey where the league manager has to step in and say, no, we're not allowing this trade.

It is not fair. Yeah. I feel like Gary Bettman needs to not allow Bo Horvett to go to Boston just for the sake of the Stanley Cup playoffs being watchable. Yeah. You know the team that still, I really think makes a lot of sense of Seattle. You know, they've got a ton of cap space. It's not far from where he feels extremely comfortable and is loved. They're in a playoff spot, so it helps for this year too.

I just think it makes a ton of sense. And they got a ton of assets, right? You know, I just think, you know, if you're Seattle right now, who makes a ton of money, fills that building, has really this fan base starting to really get inspired. by the fact that it sure doesn't feel like this has been a fluke this year. I think going out and making a move like that this early in the organization puts them on par with that Vegas team that everybody, you know, that they had to compete with in terms of just perception of being as good. And I just think it would make all the sense in the world. I don't know what

you guys think. Well, would Vancouver trade their like top number one center to a division regional rival though? Yeah, it's a good point. I'm, you know, the only thing that I'll say it's a great point, actually. You know, the only thing I'll say is that it just doesn't feel like they're taking the long game here. And now they're starting to talk about going from the Dard and a rebuild situation. They're about to, you know, they're trying to trade better. They're going to trade better. It just doesn't seem like this is going to be a quick fix.

And so, you know, but you're right. I mean, you know, that's usually probably not going to be the first option. Rapid fire topic number two, Rasmus Dahlin. You guys are both going to be covering the All-Star game. was asked about him not being selected. He stated, they're super obvious. Quote, I guess fans want to see forwards. It is what it is.

I'm going on vacation and have a good time, but obviously I want to be there. That's just how it goes. Not a lot of forwards. Five of the 44 skaters are defenders. It's the All-Star game. People want to see goals. Your thoughts on Rasmus Dahlene's statements.

Russo? Well, if they want to see goals, I think having Rasmus Dahlene and the All-Star game makes a lot of sense. That's true. I mean, that guy is having a freaking great year. Right now, I put him right in my top three for the Norris. He has been so exciting. I just watched him pile five points on the wild a couple weeks ago. I saw him play in Arizona. I thought him and Tage Thompson were the best players on the ice. So I just think it's stupid. Like, you know, we all want to make the Allster game, you know, a little bit representative of what's going on

the game and to have only five defensemen. I just think I've, for years since they've gone to this three-on-three, think the whole setup on how they put players in the Ulster game is just absurd. And I think this is dumb. I totally agree with all of that. And especially the part about, like, not being representative. Like, I feel like one of the themes in hockey right now is how amazing these defensemen are on the back end, offensively.

Like, to me, that is the story of hockey over the last few years is the way Kail McCar and Hughes and these guys have come in and changed the way, like the expectations for a defenseman have changed. To be an elite defenseman. And to not have a guy who's, like you've mentioned, top three Norris candidate right now doing it better than anyone is a little strange. And I agree that the selection process is so limited. It's like there are so many players not getting in.

I don't know how you expand the roster without making it like ridiculous. Where you're playing three-on-three is a guy going to sit on the bench for 10 minutes in between shifts because there's so many players. I don't really, I don't have the answer. So I'm just going to complain without giving a solution. But I agree. It does suck to see five defensemen in a league where there are so many amazing defensemen right now.

That's fine. But you both tell me right now, you have to tick a box. Tage Thompson, Erasmus Malin. Who are you a ticket for the All-Star game? Tage, but I like them both. Okay, I understand. But let's be honest here. Like, offense is what sells at the All-Star game.

Even 303, you just want to see goals. It's just the way it's always. I want to see Jake Middleton and Luke Shen and all these defensive defensemen. Shut down defensemen. Speaking of defenseman, Chris LaTang had to miss 11 games with not only an injury, but dealing with the death of his father. We talked a couple shows ago about how the penguins completely changed their road trip so they can go and attend his father's funeral.

returned last night in one of the craziest hockey games of the year. I know you two both cover a specific team. So you're mostly focused on that team when they're playing. For myself, I'm pretty lucky. I love to channel surf on games. If a game's shitty, I change. I go to another game. Last night, I kept it on the pens and Panthers the whole game.

I couldn't turn it off. It was just pure entertainment. Latang, four points. And then the OT win. It almost seemed like I was watching a Disney movie. what he's gone through over the last little while for him to come back like that was just incredible. What do you think, Jesse?

Yeah, sports are the best, aren't they? That's awesome. It's awesome. It always happens this way. Like, just last week, the bills, they're coming back from DeMarne Hamlin, the first game, and the opening kickoff,

they run it back for a touchdown, and everyone just kind of looks at each other like, of course, that's what happened. Because this, like, it is amazing in sports how the narrative and the storyline, and especially when it's a heart one, one. It just always seems to happen that way. So cool to see all that happened for LaTang. And like I said, sports never fail to deliver. It is amazing. Yeah. And that's exactly what I would say. I remember

January 3rd was it. So January 3rd, Tage Thompson gets three goals. It was his third hat trick of the season. It was his 30th goal of the season. And it was a winner three minutes into overtime in but the Buffalo Sabres first game after number three, Damlin, you know, DeMara Hamlin had a, had a hard attack on the ice. No, excuse me, on the field. I mean, that is crazy, right? Like, what, how, I mean, how is that even humanly possible, right? In terms of that serendipity.

And, and you see this all the time. And, and it just, it was perfect. And that was, you know, just heartwarming to watch in a, as Rob mentioned, extremely entertaining game, 13 goals. I'm sure it gave Paul Marlon. Reese and Mike Sullivan, a bit of a coronary on the bench watching that type of game. But man, it was just beautiful to watch and just to see the reaction of the fans and the players. And it was just cool.

I know a lot of people think just, oh, you like games like that because of a lot of goals. And I do. I'm an offensive guy. But I like two one games. Yeah, but I mean, it really just depends on momentum. And to me, the momentum just kept going back and forth. It was just a fun hockey game to watch. And number two, I remember seeing LaTang score that winner, saying kind of

exactly what Jesse said because of course Latang scores the OT winner but then they showed their slow-mo replay and I just watched the faces of all's teammates most people get happy after an overtime win but even when they show the bench and everything it just was overwhelming like yes

you know I'm so happy Chris LaTang got that goal so congrats to him one more rapid fire topic guys Gary Bedman spoke to the media yesterday in Montreal I'm going to give you four bullet points that jumped out to me you tell me the one that really intrigued you the most of your thoughts on it. Number one, he says, I already know. Yeah,

I know my answer. This is the one Russell's going to talk to. The teams don't tank because they have a weighted lottery. Number two says he has tried on more than one occasion to get the two women's leagues to come together, but they just refuse to do it and they're dead set on doing it separately. And he said, I don't know why they're doing it this way because starting a league is hard. Number three, said hockey canada's investigation into the, of course, the scandal we've talked about all year is almost over. And number four says the cap still could go up. They're very, very close to paying off that escrow.

If it doesn't, it'll be a million dollars next year. If not, it's going to be a lot more. Russo, go ahead. Well, obviously the fourth one is the one that it should excite everybody. You know, we've talked a lot about that on the show. But the tanking, the lottery thing, I mean, sometimes Gary, I just don't understand how he just just tries, like, I genuinely, I am like, the one reporter that always, like, I'm almost a Gary Bentman apologist.

I think I've covered this league for 28 years. I've seen the good that has happened in this national hockey league since he's been commissioner. But why does he always have to insult everybody's intelligence? It makes no sense. Just listen to the GMs that are saying they are taking. I mean, I had Bill Armstrong on this show. He basically said it, right? I mean, we've, Kyle Davidson, I've watched Pat Rabiq be like, like all half.

happy go lucky in the wild press box, like scouting a game with his team getting smoked in Ottawa. Like, you know, like that just doesn't happen. Now, the only thing that he said that is 100% accurate is that players and coaches don't take. They play to win, right? But don't, the whole teams don't tank because we have a weighted lottery is a bunch of BS. Yeah. That's my piece. The players are trying.

The GMs are just making sure the players that are trying aren't good enough to win no matter how hard they try. Exactly. I agree with that that fourth topic or the fourth point about the possibility of the cap going up intrigues me. Obviously, it'll be great if it does. But just the fact that they aren't sure and like it's a pretty wild swing. Like this isn't a $500,000 swing in what like this is millions of dollars. These general managers are going to are, I mean, they've already. It's January.

It's late January. They want to know. Like they can, we've already passed the point where they, can sign extensions to players and they still don't know how much money they have to work with next year. Those guys have a tough job, especially the capologists. We say GMs, but like the capologists is the guy. The GMs are all grabbing players and signing players and the capologist is in the back, like pulling his hair out. He's already under a bunch of stress trying to deal with LTIR and all these gymnastics that these teams pull off these days to not have any idea, like within a couple

million dollars of how much money you have to work with next year in January is wild. It is. It is. And yeah, to be clear, as, as Russell said, it's just positioning the chess pieces as far as tanking goes. Like you watch, sometimes I've seen some Arizona games this year where I think I put it out on Twitter once. Do they know how good Connor Bardard is? Like, you're looking at this team like really beaten up on really elite teams. Teams they should absolutely get smoked to. But to say that GMs aren't sitting there rooting and doing their best they can for a tank is just ridiculous. We didn't tank this show, though. There was a game a couple of weeks ago where Arizona was down a goal.

And there was no urgency from Turing to pull. I can't remember if it was, I think it was, I can't remember which goal he was in that. But anyway. And finally, they pulled up with like 59 or second. it's left or a minute. It was just hilarious. And I was just like, well, if you ever had a, you know, you ever wondered if a team's tanking. It was there. It's like he reluctantly, he was like, okay, just come to the bench, I guess. Well, it's funny. It all happened because of actual tanking that happened in the past. And I remember seeing a doc TSN put together on the year before

Mariel came in the league. And the things that the devils and the penguins were doing to lose hockey games were just hilarious. I mean, the Penguins called one of their goalies up from the American Hockey League team. He went 3 and O and they sent them back down. They're just like, no, you're not, that's, you're not supposed to be doing this. Like they were just, it was so blatantly obvious. Doesn't it, wasn't it, 2005 where we got to, we got to fact check this, but wasn't it 2005 where, we know where, or was it, so it was four, so it was 2004, the Ovechkin Malkin draft, where, where Chicago brought up their minor league goalie to play the last two games. And I think he went like one oh and one.

And they wound up with the third pick and had to take Cam Parker. But they were clearly trying to get that last pick. I mean, heck, you know, I know that was, you know, and the weighted lottery is obviously different. But I mean, everybody knows that Eddie Johnston and Pittsburgh Penguins tank to get Mario. You know, I mean, that was, but that was not a weighted lottery to Gary's point.

But 2005 won. It was still somewhat of a weighted lottery. think maybe I'm wrong. I'll have to look it up. You guys aren't tanking for the athletic. What are you working on for the next week? Jesse? Working on some fun goldenite stuff, but also, you know, me with the goalies.

I had a great sit down with Igor Shisterkin yesterday. And he's a guy like, he's not the most talkative, but I got him talking goalie stuff. I got to sit down with him in the Rangers locker room. and he sat there for quite a while and chatted with me about growing up and kind of how he became a goalie, how he fell in love with the position, the type of training he went through. So I'm talking to quite a few goleys over the next few weeks for a big story I'm working on. So I'm excited about that. Oh, my God, you and your goalie is just unreal.

Most important position is sports. Yeah, yeah, that's, I guess, true, true, true. And it is funny because when you watch goalies with a reporter that gets goalies, They just get all giddy and, you know, it's pretty kind of cool. What am I working on? Working on the NHL Situation Room story, which actually we might wind up holding right now and running it closer to the GMs, because there's a lot of things going on in the situation room that's going to be presented to the GMs, stuff like, you know, figuring out

why fights start because they're trying to stop this trend of fight starting because of clean hits. And then the other one is, and I know this is, you know, thorn in the side of Maple Leaf fans who think that everybody, including me, are going after Matt Murray. But the reality is that goalies right now are, you know, nets are coming off the moorings too easily. And they are trying, they are cutting every single time a goalie knocks the net off the moorings, whether it's an accident or do they deem intentional like LeBroski about a week ago. And they're, they're cutting that and they're going to deliver this to the GMs to see if they feel it's a trend and needs to be addressed. There is a rule.

in the rule book, it doesn't really need to be addressed if the referees would just freaking call a delay a game penalty. But, um, but, you know, clearly that's going to the, to the GMs. Um, we're also working on a really cool, uh, Chris O'Hern piece. And then Jesse, myself, Lazarus, um, and Corey Praman will be at the Allster game and we have a couple really cool story ideas that we're working on as well. Have fun there, boys. And I will see you next week before I go as I do each and every week. I want to run. Remind everybody, go get an annual subscription to the athletic right now. Well, wait, it's just two bucks a month for the year when you visit the athletic.com slash hockey show.

And you could subscribe to our YouTube channel as well, YouTube.com slash the athletic hockey show. You can also subscribe to the athletic audio plus on Apple podcast to get all the bonus content from our entire network. You start with a 30-day free trial. Then it's just 99 cents a month after that. This week, it's the three of us, myself, Jesse and Russo. And we're talking Shane Wright. I think we had a little fired up about this topic. so make sure to go listen to that.

And remember the Athletic Hockey Show returns Thursday with Ian Mendez and down goes brown. I want to say a special thank you again to Mike Murphy. Go clean your garage. Bruce, Jesse, and I will be back next week with the one and only Bruce Boudreau. You will want to hear that interview. We'll see you next week.