The Athletic Hockey Show - Robin Lehner drinks Haterade, sinks Habs in Game 4, NHL officiating woes continue, Lady Byng award controversy, Multiple Choice Madness, and more

Episode Date: June 21, 2021

Off the top, Ian and Hailey explain why they’re too scared to invite celebrities onto the show, and then discuss Robin Lehner’s Game 4 performance replacing Marc-Andre Fleury in net for the Golden Knights, Lehner’s postgame comments about fueling himself with negative tweets prior to the game, how this impacts Fleury’s legacy going forward, who should start in goal on Wednesday night, and more.Plus, thoughts on Vegas GM Kelly McCrimmon and Montreal head coach Dominique Ducharme testing positive for COVID-19, questionable officiating taking over as a major storyline this postseason, Ryan Pulock’s incredible game-saving stop on Ryan McDonagh in the dying seconds of Isles-Lightning Game 4, Damien Cox going off on Lady Byng award voters for choosing Jacob Slavin as the winner, and more.And, to close things out, Ian and Hailey run through a series of Multiple Choice Madness questions including who’s more likely to finish their career with their current team: Marc-Andre Fleury or Carey Price, if Sasha Barkov deserves the title of best two-way player in the NHL, the best feeling in professional sports, and more.You can sign up for an annual subscription to The Athletic for just $3.99 a month when you visit http://theathletic.com/hockeyshow Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

All right, we're back to kick off another week with a brand new edition of the Athletic Hockey Show. Ian Mendez, Haley Salvin, with you as always in the leadoff spot to kick out your week. Coming up on this episode of the podcast, we'll chat about Peter DeBoers Vegas Gamble. And going with Robin Lennar over Mark Andre Fleury as the Vegas Golden Knights bounce back to win game four. And we'll also chat about some pretty pointed comments made by Robin Lennar on Sunday evening. with both final four series now down to a best of three. We'll discuss Tampa and the Islanders after Ryan Pulock's amazing desperation save. We'll also chat about maybe the best saves ever made by a non-goly in the NHL.

Referees are kind of back in the spotlight, and we know that's never a good thing when that happens. Some of the NHL awards have been handed out with a, I guess, a smidge of controversy. We'll say a smidge. Smidge of controversy around them. We'll chat about that. Multiple Choice Madness, I want to know, is there a better feeling in sport?

than scoring an overtime winner in the Stanley Cup playoffs. Maybe there's something better in sports for an athlete to experience. So we'll get to all of that and more coming up in a jam-pack edition of the Athletic Hockey Show. And Haley, it's just you and me. The two of us, just the two of us, I feel like we need to have that just the two of us song rolling in the background. This could be a lot of fun, but it's not for a lack of creativity or imagination on our part. although we kind of chickened out on a couple things here. Yeah, it was definitely for lack of execution,

for context, for those listening. Last week, we had Arthur Staples and Arpin Basu on to talk about the kind of, I guess, quote, unquote, underdogs who made it to the final four. But Ian and I started discussing, you know, we should have a celebrity fan on the show. Immediately we landed on Ralph Macho. And we just really wanted to have him on the show.

I don't really know why. I think Ian, it was your idea. You got really jazzed about it, but failed to reach out. Well, I don't want to be, it comes across as like awfully thirsty when you tweet at,

like publicly tweet at Ralph Machio. Hey man, love to have you on the podcast. If I had a direct line of Ralph Machio, I would feel confident enough to get in there. But where I'm going to, I'm going to kind of come at you here a little bit, is that the islanders also have another celebrity fan in Kevin Connolly,

who is a huge fan, and he follows you on Twitter. Now, there was, for some reason. There's, for some reason, you're one of the best writers in the game, that's why. So I don't understand why you weren't willing to slip him a note, and slide into his DMs, as we like to say, and just say, hey, we got a podcast, any chance you're willing to come on and chat islanders, you know? Yeah, I chickened out because I'm a huge fan of entourage.

So I don't know. And doesn't that come off as overly thirsty sliding into Kevin Connolly's DMs? But it's not in public. Hey, Kevin. It's not in public. No one would know. I don't know. I was very close once we saw the picture of Ralph Macho and Jimmy Fallon at the game.

I was so close to doing the thirst tweet. Hey, Jimmy. love to have me on the show. Just because it would be funny. He would obviously not respond. Like he would, nobody would reply, but I could see all the replies being like, ooh, she shot.

Like, shoot or shoot. Yeah, you got to shoot a shot. Yeah, exactly. Got to shoot my shot with Jimmy Fallon on the athletic hockey show. Because he was at Rangers games before and then he's at the Colosseum. So it would have been fun, but we chickened out on all fronts. And you could have reached out to Ryan Reynolds and you didn't. I know.

But Ryan Reynolds isn't, I don't think he's a huge. hockey fan. Again, why he follows me is inexplicable, but I'm not going to jinx it. Here's what I want to know, though. He's going to listen to this show and unfollow you. Oh, he is. Exactly. Because he would have loved to come on. Oh, he would have. He's like, if only he had just asked me via DM. Now, of the four teams that are left, do all of them have at least, like, did the Tampa Bay Lightning have a celebrity fan? Like, the Islanders have Kevin Colony and Ralph Machio. The Habs have a handful, right? Like, there's a number of prominent Habs fans.

Like, I think of Jay Barrichel, too. Oh, oh, why didn't we go for him? Tell you what? If they get to the Stanley guy, I feel comfortable DMing Jay. Yeah. And saying, look, he's a big fan of the NHL. So, and obviously the Vegas goal today, like, Wayne Newton's rolling around. And who's that poker player guy, Daniel, oh my gosh.

It's the only poker guy whose name I know. Daniel Nogranu? Negrono? I don't watch poker. Neither do I. Neither do I, but I know. But do the Tampa Bay Lightning have a celebrity fan that Hulk Hogan comes to mind. Is Hulk Hogan a Tampa Bay Lightning fan?

Maybe. I mean, we've, I mean, the, the, the Bucks, like, you could probably consider Tom Brady and, like, Rob Grancowski celebrity fans, right? They've been to the games, but I don't know if that's, like, them being a fan are just saying like, hey, we're all in Tampa. We're going to cheer for you. Yeah, that. But like, Giselle Bunchin was there.

Like, I think Stephen Stamcoast got a picture with Giselle. And, like, she's massive, like, Uber celebrity. So I guess she counts. But I don't know if Giselle would just go to a Tampa Bay Lightning game if Tom wasn't playing for the Bucks. So I don't know. Right. Yeah.

It probably is. Okay. So next week, we're going to work on having, but it's going to depend on who's left standing. Right? Like the series could be done by that. It's going by quite quickly, actually. And yeah, now we're down to, you know, a couple of best of threes here. I'm sure Hulk Hogan, I am sure Hulk Hogan.

Look, look at our producer Chris Flannery is on it and has just given us the definitive list, Haley, of celebrity Tampa Bay Lightning fans. Stephen King. Stephen King. Hulk Hogan. Yeah. Charles Barkley, Tom Brady, and Dick Vitell. that's a big one.

Charles Barkley is a, is a Tampa Bay Lightning fan? I don't know. I guess so. According to ESPN. Hulk Hogan, I think his daughter used to sing at Lightning Games, right?

Or she did something with the Lightning? Boy, if only we could look this stuff up. We really prepare for our show. No, we do. We do in all seriousness. but I just, the lightning don't prep celebrities. Yeah, but the lightning, they're not like,

like there's certain teams that have like right away, you're like, oh yeah, they have a celebrity fan or that person's a fan. The lightning don't really have one that jump out to me, but other than Hulk Hogan. The senators will always have Rihanna. I don't know, but Rihanna kind of wore a bunch of teams jerseys. Okay, but Rihanna in the Heritage O jersey with just a pair of strappy high heels is like one of the most

iconic things I've ever seen. Yeah. And Matthew Perry at one point was a Senators fan. In fact, in a movie, he actually wore a Senator's shirt. But then I think he's kind of ghosted the franchise now. I don't think, I don't see him. Same with Alanis Morissette. Like, Alanis sang the anthem at the first ever Ottawa Senator's game when she was like,

I don't know how old she would have been 19 or whatever, however old she was. And then she got really big. And then they brought her back. She sang the anthem in the Stanley Cup final here in 07. Yeah. But I haven't seen Alanis tweeting about the senators at any point. Yeah. I think the pop culture references with certain sports franchises are so interesting.

Like when I was on the Sons beat last year, I was kind of compiling a bunch of pop culture references with the senators because Caitlin McGrath, she does a great job covering the Toronto Blue Jays for any baseball fans. And she did an entire story of every single like pop culture reference that was made about the Toronto Blue Jays. and I was going to do it for the Sends, but then, you know, COVID happened and, you know, the kind of narrative around the season changed and I didn't get a chance. But you could totally do it, Ian, because there were some fun ones. Oh, yeah. Brooklyn 9-9 when Boyle is engaged to this woman in the early seasons and she wants to move to Canada. And he's like, I don't want to move to suburban Ottawa.

Yeah. What would be suburban Ottawa? Canada, right where the ring is. Okay, yeah. That's what I said. I said Canada. And someone was like, that's not the burbs. Yeah.

I love that. Brooklyn 99 is one of my favorite shows. So when they dropped that in, 30 Rock 2 had an Ottawa Senator's reference in it. And they have that funny song. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So they have some totally rando things. So anyway, we'll work on that for next week. Moving on. But we should get anyone listening to send us their favorite pop culture references from their favorite team. Doesn't have to be the sense. Could be the names. Could be anyone. What's your favorite pop culture reference from your favorite hockey team? By the way, best all-time pop culture reference, any all-time. You might be a little bit too young for this, but Ferris Bueller's Day Off, the Detroit Red Wings jersey. I don't like that movie.

That's my hottest of hot takes. My dad loves that movie. Yeah. See, I'm probably closer to your dad's age. So, like, you know what I mean? Like, it's, it depends on, like. He always watches it. And I, like, leave the room.

And I'm like, I don't, he skipped school. I'm like Amy from Brooklyn 9-9. Yeah. Yeah, you are a real Santhago. This isn't funny. Yeah. I am a Santiago for sure. Yeah, for sure.

All right. So I'll tell you what, let's get into, I got to ask you, what was your level of surprise when you were, and you're probably like me. You were on Sunday kind of hanging out and probably scrolling through Twitter. And people are tweeting out Robin Lennar in the starters net. Robin Lennar first off the ice. You know, Pete DeBore won't confirm his goalie. Like what was going through your mind on Sunday afternoon when it looked like all signs were pointed to Pete DeBorco and Robin Leonard?

Yeah, I mean, I think for me and obviously I didn't tweet it so people will think like, oh, well, you're just saying that now that he won the game. And so I probably should have, you know, cemented it on the Twitterverse. But I didn't think it was a huge deal. The Golden Knights had lost two games. Mark Andre Fleury was the starter. He's played the bulk of the. playoffs except for the one game that Robin Lender started in game one against the abs to give Mark Andre Fleury rest. So when I saw that, it was like, okay, it could be a resting. It could also be,

you know, the pretty big mistake that Mark Andre Fleury made in the last game against Montreal. So I just thought it was a, I just thought it was a hockey decision by DeBore to help the team win the next game. I mean, they were down to one. You've got to even up the series. I know Mark Andre Fleury has been the guy for the Golden Knights this season. He's had an incredible year. But, I mean, the Golden Knights have depth at many positions, but their goaltending depth is one of the things that, I mean, we've talked about this before. They have a, they believe that they have a 1A, 1B, they have two starters. They don't have a backup. They have a starter and a starter. So I didn't think it was a huge deal. I can understand why some people were kind of panicking and

laying it on thick to Robin Leonard because he did let in seven goals the last time he started. He had a, I think it was a 0.811 say percentage against Colorado in that game. So I can understand it a little bit, but Robin Leonard does have pretty good career numbers in the playoffs. He has a 920 say percentage and a 2.16 goals against average and 28 games in the playoffs. Like that's not, you're not throwing it to, you know, your third tier goalie just because you were at Mark Andre Fleury. I think it was just a hockey decision and obviously it worked out. Yeah. And it certainly was a gamble though because I think when you get to this stage of the game, I know a lot of people look back, Haley, at a very similar situation with the Penguins in 2017.

In fact, at the same juncture in the conference final, Mark Andre Fleury had a speed wobble against Ottawa in game three. Mike Sullivan goes back to Matt Murray and they ride him out and they come back, they win the series and they win the Stanley Cup. And I think a lot of people are saying what's happening here with Mark Andre Fleury. So before we get into how this might alter people's perception of Mark Andre Fleury, I want to play a little audio from Robin Leonard because I mentioned, look, I was on social media and I'm seeing people freak out that Vegas. This is a panic move.

What's Pete the board doing? Oh my gosh, Robin Leonard, like you said, got torched against the abs. This is a huge mistake. Well, I wasn't the only one reading that. you weren't the only one reading that, Haley. Have a listen. Here's Robin Lennar on the podium Sunday night, fresh off a 2-1 overtime win,

talking about how he was soaking in all the talk on Twitter. That was great. You know, not many people know. I come to the game four hours early. I get up my own bus. I come four hours early. I sat for two hours and watch you guys talk shit on Twitter on me, you know, to get me motivated.

And, you know, it was really. great, you know, just see all the way you guys had to say and, you know, I don't care what people think. It's been a weird, kind of a weird season with concussion and my surgery and stuff like that, but, you know, I've been battling hard lately to, you know, just be a good teammate and being as good as possible. And, you know, I don't really, it's a great motivation for me. I don't do the flashiest saves and all those things, but, you know, before this season, ever since I got out of rehab, and even before that in Buffalo, I've been putting up some pretty good numbers.

And people act like, yeah, people act like what they, that I'm not very good, especially in our own town. But, you know, I have a lot from the team, my teammates, and my coaches, and me and Flower has gotten really close this year, you know, supporting each other, and we don't care about the noise. So it's just great motivation for me. It was very enjoyable on Twitter today.

And thank you guys very much for giving me that motivation. I mean, Haley, there's a lot to unpack there. Robin Lander's like, yeah, I took a bus four hours before to get to the Bell Center to read those tweets. Do you think he hooks into the Wi-Fi in the building to read those tweets? Is he using data? I'm thinking you hook into Wi-Fi, no? I mean, I'm sure he has an okay. data plan, oh, maybe they're roaming. But I'm sure he can handle the roaming charges. But I think

the Bell Center has Wi-Fi. You can connect to the fan Wi-Fi. No one's in the building yet. Exactly. That's what I'm thinking. Yeah. Service. See, who would have thought when we're talking about roaming and Vegas goalies that we'd be talking about that and not Mark Andre Fleury, leaving the net? Oh, Ian. What have you done? Okay. But it also is like, what do you know where you were going at first and then? Yeah. Yeah, it made sense. We're good. Okay.

So what do you make of Robin Leonard's comments? Because I think there's a lot, there's a couple of schools of thoughts with athletes, right? Some of them, they drink that in. They're like, you know what? I'm going to feed on, drink your haterate, all that stuff. Then there's another group of athletes like, you know what? I don't want to see it. I don't want to hear it.

I block it out. What do you think of Robin Lennar? Not only doing that, Haley, but then publicly telling everyone, hey, just so you know, I read all your tweets and that's what motivated you. Yeah, like, thanks. Yeah. I mean, I think it's like you said, like there's different schools of thought with this. And I think for athletes, like they know what their limits are.

They know if they go and read that. If it's going to fuel them, then it's going to be a good thing. But they also have to know if they're going to read that. If it's going to get in their head and they're going to freak out, then they're not going to look at it. And some of them, it doesn't impact them at all because they just don't care. So, I mean, I think it's, I mean, it's pretty awesome. I think Robin Leonard has shown time and time again that he's one of those athletes that. that he has something to say and he's going to say it.

Like he's not going to give us the jargon. He's not going to give us nothing. He's going to say exactly what's on his mind, whether it's saying thanks for that or talking about, you know, his struggles with mental health, which has been, I'm sure,

so helpful to so many people hearing somebody of his stature talk about those things on such a massive platform. Or talking about how the quarantine rules didn't make any more sense. You know, he's always going to say what's on his mind. and I think it's just so refreshing to hear professional athletes, you know, talk like that. So, I mean, I thought it was interesting. I think for me, I would never read people saying that to me before a game if I was in his shoes.

But, I mean, I think it's, if that's what fuels him, obviously it worked. It was pretty bold, though. I mean, I don't know. I just think those quotes are awesome. Like, for Jesse Granger, like, what a fun. story to write after the game. Like that's just, it's at such a scene like two hours before the game. Robin Leonard's sitting there reading everyone talk about him. And then three, four, five hours later he's tied the series up. I mean, it writes itself. It's, it's so awesome.

And I think it's great that Robin Leonard told the media that because it's just an, it's another fun thing for us to talk about. And just another kind of feather in his cap for, you know, probably being a pretty fun guy to cover and fun guy to talk to. Yeah. You know, and I don't know how many people outside, because this being a national podcast that goes across North America, I don't know how many people would know this story that when Robin Leonard was in Ottawa, he had a, like an aquarium at home. And he named his piranhas after members of the media in Ottawa that he didn't like, that he felt were too aggressive. I don't think, and here's the thing, I was in TV at the time. I don't think I made Robin Leonard's piranha list, which I think

I was a little bit disappointed about. Maybe he had like a little friendly guppy named after me or something. But, but he, like, this has kind of been his M.O. Like he kind of, he, he, he, he looks at people who write negative things about him. He's like, you know what, that's going to fuel me. But I'm always curious, too, like, do you think that, like, and this, I guess this goes for bulletin board material too? Like, do you think that that actually motivate, like, do you think athletes, like, you know

what, I'm going to try even harder? Like, I don't know. I feel like professional athletes try their best pretty much all the time. And sometimes things like this happen and maybe it's easier to psych themselves up for things. But I just, I don't know that it actually motivates them. I think Robin Leonard's a super motivated guy anyway. Do you think he actually needed that or like it's convenient after the fact? I guess my point is this.

Let's say Vegas loses that game two to one or they lose. Do we ever hear about this? probably not yeah i and i love robin leon i just i think that guy's so motivated he doesn't need negative tweets to get motivated does he yeah i think that's fair like i don't think that was the only reason for him to be motivated was looking at those tweets i mean he's getting the start and game four of the you know conference final of the stanley cut playoffs like that's motivating enough to be going in and getting that position so there's a ton of you know it's easy to get up for that game But I guess there probably was a little bit of that I'm going to prove you wrong mentality, which he probably could have, you know, he probably didn't need to go on Twitter to know.

Like there's probably media people talking about that. It's not a new storyline, especially, you know, when we're talking about, you know, him replacing such a beloved player in Mark Andre Fleury. I think even with the mistake that Mark Andre Fleury made, people still love him. People still want to see him in the net the next game, right? So I think there's probably a lot of internal motivation already, but probably scrolling through and seeing people talk about how terrible he was. You know, if he fuels himself that way as well, I don't think it's the whole reason he was motivated. But I'm sure it could add a little bit just knowing that people don't think you can do it

and you want to go out there and prove them wrong. But obviously, you want to go out and win the game regardless of what people are saying on Twitter. So what do you do if you're Pete DeBoard? Now the series is down to a best of three. game five goes Tuesday night. If you put yourself in Pete DeBoers shoes, Haley, who do you start game five Tuesday night? Robin Leonard or Mark Andre Fleury?

I mean, it's tough because Flurry's been your guy. He got you to this point. You know, you're arguably not here without Mark Andre Flurry because he played so well. And it was one difficult game for Flurry, but also it's the same thing with anyone in the lineup. If you, you know, you don't have, I don't know what stupid.

Mark Stone out of the lineup and you win the next game or are you putting Mark Stone back in? You don't fix what's not, you don't change what's not broken. I think I've butchered that. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. That's it. Yeah. So I don't know. Like, you know, Robin Leonard won the last game. So maybe he does get the start or maybe you go back to your guy. I think probably history would suggest that Lennar would start the next game potentially because he just won. So don't you want to keep the guy who just won you the game and who has the hot hand in? I know, but I think you can also make the argument,

DeBore's like, man, Mark Andre Fleury has just played every other night for a month. Yeah. He just needed one game as a breather. We bring them back. And maybe if we lose game five, we go back to Robin Lennar in game six. Like, it's really interesting. And you've brought this up there. There's not a lot of teams that have this lug.

Like the discrepancy between Robin Lennar and Mark Andre Fleury, that gap isn't as great as it is for a lot of teams, right? A lot of teams, you would look at their number one goalie, look at the backup. Wow, that's a huge discrepancy. We're not even going to entertain that conversation. But in this case, I think there is a point to be made, right? Yeah, I think so. I mean, and you just look across who they're playing against with Montreal. I mean, I think the Canadians believed that they had a really, not the same level, but

they have a good tandem too. They have Jake Allen as the backup, but I don't see the Montreal Canadians ever taking carry price out of the net. Um, so they have, you know, a good tandem, maybe not the same level as Mark Andre Fleury and Robin Leonard. But I mean, even if they, I mean, even if Jake Allen was in practice playing lights out and they believe he could win a game, I don't think you're taking carry price out. So it is a really unique kind of conversation that we're having with the Vegas golden nights because I don't know what other team would be facing a similar thing, but I think having two good goalies who could potentially win you game five is a really good problem to have. You know, it's also a unique conversation, Haley, around Mark Andre Fleury,

because I think at the end of the day, when you look at his numbers statistically, and he's not done, but when he's done in a couple of years from now, he's going to hang with Marty Brodour and Patrick Waugh and some of the greatest goalies of all time, statistically speaking. But now this is multiple times in which he's been pulled out of a conference final and replaced. That never would have happened to Brodor, it never would have happened to Waugh or Hoshick

or whoever else you have on your Mount Rushmore of the greatest goalies, this would never happen to anybody, but it's happened to Mark Andre Fleury. And the reason why I bring it up is, what does this do for his legacy? And does this alter anybody's view of, is he a surefire first ballot,

Hall of Famer? Is he more of like, ah, no, maybe he's like a, he's a second-tier guy. Like, this being pulled out of the conference final now two times in the last four years, change or alter Mark Andre Fleury's legacy or is it, you know what, we got to see how this thing plays itself out. Yeah, it doesn't alter it for me.

I think if you look at both situations where Flurry's been pulled out of these games, I mean, again, he got Vegas to this point. So even if Flurry doesn't play another game in this playoff series or in the Stanley Cup playoffs, which I don't think is going to happen. I think we will see him again. But even if he doesn't, he got them to this point. He got them to the conference final with the Pittsburgh Penguins when, you know, I think, you know, Matt Murray the first time usurped him because he was playing great.

So you have this lights out rookie who was playing, I mean, arguably the best hockey. He's played in his career because we've seen the drop off in Matt Murray. You know, you've got this kid who comes up from the American League, Fleury gets hurt. He takes over. You're not going to pull him from the net. So Matt Murray gets there in the first year. And then the second Stanley Cup, they won where Matt Murray was hurt. and Flurry played, and Flurry got them to the conference final.

Like he did that for the Pittsburgh Penguins. He played lights out. Then Matt Murray was healthy. Fleury had a bad game, so they went back to their guy who won them the last Stanley Cup. Like, I don't think that's Mark Andre's. Mark Andre Fleury's fault. I mean, he sure, he had slip-ups that cost him that starting position. But again, he got them to that position, and it's the same thing here.

So for me, I think you just look at Flurie's body of work. I mean, again, he's one of the most beloved. players in the league. He's also in the midst of one of the best seasons that he's had. I mean, career best and safe percentage, career best and goals against average in the regular season. Finalist for the Vesna Trophy for the first time. I mean, he had that great save percentage. I think it was in 921. He had under two goals against in the first two rounds. And I mean, the performance against Colorado, like he, other than, I mean, he didn't even play the first game. That was Robin Lennar. So, I mean, Flurry shut down one of the best, you know, office.

offensive attacks in the league. So I don't know how we can look at all that and say that Mark Andre Fleury's not one of the best players. Yeah, it's just, but again, when you go back and think of the best goalies ever, this would never happen. But it's only happened to him. And I think the world to him. But I just don't, I don't think he's going to end up on the list of like the, I think this

kind of hurts the argument that he's one of the five best goalies of all time, if you were thinking of that. If people were thinking, you know what, Mark Andreoy is one of the best five goalies of all time. I don't know that I could get behind that. But I do think he's a Hall of Famer. I just don't know that he's first ballot. I just don't know he's in that same rarefied air. But it's really interesting to see what they're going to do.

And I thought it was really fun that in practice on Sunday, he kind of mocked the fact that, hey, look, I stopped a puck going behind the net. And he kind of raised his arms up. And he is. He's one of the most likable guys. and I'm just, I'm just so curious to see, like, I guess here's my question to you. Do we see Mark Andre Fleury in this series again? What, like, what does your gut tell you? Yes or no?

As a, as a starting goalie in this series, yes or no? Yes. Yeah, exactly. I feel the same way. Like, there's no. That wasn't super confident. Yeah, that's what I mean. I don't see how he doesn't play again.

I mean, everything I just said about how great he's been. Like, it's one, I mean, he lost game two and three. he had that mishap behind the net. But I mean, I don't know how you can look at everything he's done and say like, now you're on the bench now. So that's what Pete DeBoer is dealing with. The Vegas Golden Knights are dealing with a positive COVID test for their general manager, Kelly McCriman.

At the same time, the Montreal Canadiens are dealing with a similar positive COVID test for their head coach Dominic Dushar. And so the good news here, Haley, is that at this stage of the game, no player has tested positive here. so there hasn't been any issues that way. But certainly it's kind of come back to the forefront. And for the Montreal Canadians, this is a bigger issue. I think if your general manager is isolated from the team,

the playoffs, it really doesn't affect the team. But having a head coach out of the equation is certainly a game changer. And that's what the haves are dealing with. But Luke Richardson has kind of helped put this thing together for the team. And they're one in one in the absence of their head coach. But I can't imagine Dominic Dusharme has probably thought about these moments for his entire life, dreaming about being behind the bench, helping your team get to a Stanley Cup final and to have it taken away, at least temporarily, is probably one of the most vexing

things that, because you never know when you're going to get this opportunity again down the road. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. I think, you know, and especially in a year where this was the easiest route for a Canadian team to be in this position. I mean, the Montreal Canadians aren't going to have the same path next year to get to, you know, a conference final and, you know, assuming he takes, has the interim tag lifted, which I think we all can kind of assume that it's going to happen. But yeah, you don't know when this is going to happen again. And we don't know if the Canadians are going to be playing by the time Dusharm is out of his quarantine.

I believe it's a 14 day quarantine. 14 days, yeah. Yeah. His isolation or quarantine because he tested positive. I mean, and he was fully vaccinated. There was a very small percentage chance that this happened. and he spoke to that. It's, I mean, it's unfortunate because, like you said,

like players dream of getting to a final or the Stanley Cup coaches do too. And it's just been such a crazy year for the Montreal Canadians from, you know, relieving Claude Julian of his duties and having do Charm step in, you know, having the team be one of the best teams in the north and drop off and then just barely squeak into the playoffs because the Calgary Flames couldn't get it together to now being this story of, Oh, like maybe they were built for the playoffs. Maybe the North Division wasn't so bad at all.

I mean, it's been a really great story. And then your coach isn't there anymore. And he's been such a big part of that. And we heard from Arpin last week about how the players have really bought into what he's saying. And they respect their coach and they value what he's saying. So to not have him there. I mean, that's tough. It's just, it's another thing that's happened this year.

You just, there's, you can't really. It's hard to know what to expect with. kind of COVID season that we've had the last two years. So it's unfortunate, but like you said, you know, they're one for one without them. So we'll see how they continue to go. And hopefully they continue playing by the time he gets back. Yeah. And, you know, seeing Luke Richardson.

And if you haven't seen this story, John Morosi did a wonderful piece on NHL Network on Luke Richardson, the family, the Do It for Darren initiative. And Luke always wears the pin. And for him to tap it after his first, essentially his first win, as an NHL head coach, that was really powerful, really poignant. And, you know, Luke and Stephanie Richardson had to endure probably every parent's worst nightmare is losing your child. And to me, for them to be able then to turn that around into a very public campaign

to raise awareness for mental health for youth, it's one of the strongest things I think I've seen any human being do. And, you know, I've gotten involved in the initiative and I do some things for do it for Darren. and every time I do an event, Haley, every time I do something for a do it for Darren, I always get a text from Luke Richardson. And he always reaches out to me and says, thank you so much for doing it. We appreciate it so much.

And I'm always blown away. And I'm like, I have no words because what you and stuff have been through is just, like I said, it's every parent's worst nightmare. And for them to turn that around and turn it into this thing, like, I was, I'm not going to lie to you. I don't, I don't cheer often in sports. when Luke Richardson was behind the bench for game three, I thought, oh, this is great.

And then I thought, my goodness gracious, if he could just get a win on Father's Day, what it would have meant. I'll be honest with you. I cheer for stories. I think I'm a lot like you where you get to know athletes and coaches. You cheer for the story. And I think sometimes listeners and fans don't understand that.

They see things in a different way. But Luke is one of the best people I've ever met in the industry. And I would love nothing more than to see that guy get a stay on the cup. Because you never got one as a player. and he's one of the guys that has played 14,500 games in the league. And then to coach as long as he has, it's, again, as you talked about, what an up and down bananas year for the Montreal Canadiens. Yeah, and I mean, I'm certainly cheering for him as well.

I think, yeah, we cheer for the people. We cheer for the stories. And it's an incredible one. I went to Ryerson University and I wasn't on the women's hockey team, but the women's hockey team always did a lot of stuff for Do It for Darren. We always had to do it for Darren night. You know, the chuck of puck, the raffle. It was just the whole thing.

Everyone had the pins, the purple ribbons. It was always a really big thing at Ryerson, you know, every year for the do-it-for-da- and that was no credit to the coaches and the captains who really made it a priority at our school with the women's hockey program. So I'm really familiar with it, too. I'm not from the Ottawa area, but it was really huge at our university. And, you know, it's such an unimaginable pain that the family's been in. you said, they've turned it into such a great story and such a great thing.

So I tweeted go-habs go last one the other day. You know, I'm afraid to jump on the bandwagon for any team because every team I decide to cheer for they lose. But this is certainly one of the stories that are really easy to cheer for. Yeah, absolutely. Like I said, I think hockey fans have a hard time because if you're a diehard fan of the Vegas Golden Knights or the Islanders or something, you can't, you don't see it that way, right? the world is black or white.

But what we can all agree on, and speaking of black and white, is the officiating, it seems to be that all hockey fans are having a problem with it right now. Whether you cheer for the Vegas Golden Knights, the Montreal Canadiens, Islanders, Lightning. I don't know if this is just Haley a function of social media and this kind of echo chamber world we live in. But it feels like this is the most belly aching, grumbling, and complaining I have ever seen about officials in the NHL, but it leads to the obvious question.

Like, is this, is this complaining going to lead to anything? Or are we just going to have to just do the usual, you know what, it is what it is, and we'll just move on? Or do you think that this might affect some real change? I don't know, honestly, because how long have we been complaining about this? Like, it's been the whole playoffs.

Like from round one, even the regular season officiating was bad. And I hate it. I hate the trope of complaining about the refs. You know, even there was games between the flames and the senators where both teams are in the bottom of the league and or in the bottom of the north, even the league too. And everyone's complaining. You missed a Colin Stutzley.

You missed a Colin Batherson. The refs through the game. It's been all season long and it's been kind of exhausting, to be honest, because I hate the complaining about the refs. But it's been bad. Like I don't like the complaining. I don't like making it a narrative. I don't like focusing on it because I'd prefer to focus on the hot.

but it's hard to ignore it any longer. I mean, there's been the argument that Cory Perry's was hit with the puck, not the stick, um, whatever it may be. But like, Nick Suzuki got punched in the face in front of the ref yesterday on Sunday night, fully punched in the face. Chris Lee, the referee was looking right at it. He watched him get punched in the face and went play on. Yeah.

Like, come on. There's a rulebook for a reason. Like call it. It's so, it's such a frustrating take because we shouldn't even have to say it. And it makes me so angry that this is the story of the playoffs. Like there's, like we just spoke about with Do It for Darren and the Habs. Like there's way better stories to be talking about that we're talking about this. Corey Perry's nose just exploded for no reason for sure. No, nothing happened.

His nose just exploded. Nothing happened. Nick Suzuki was phantom punched in the face. Well, yeah. Brayton McDap punched him right. There's a ghost. Right. Well, they are ghosts when you play in Montreal, right?

There's the ghosts. They're always around. But you're right. That's who punched him. That's who broke. Yeah. There's no such thing as spontaneous nasal combustion or whatever happened to Corey Perry. Like his nose literally exploded in game three.

I even tweeted. I was laughing at my own tweet like I always do because I think my jokes are funny. I was just like, I hate it when my nose just breaks. Yeah. Just bad. It just blows up. Yeah. And, you know, I look at this.

And I think, okay, we see the complaining. Where I think for our Canadian audience, I didn't have a chance to listen to the NBC feed, but Hockey Night in Canada, Craig Simpson in the booth and then Kevin BXA in the intermission, were openly critical of the officials. And to me, once you get your rights holders who are usually told, hey, listen,

try not to openly disparage the officials. But when that happens, it's a smoking gun sign of this is probably gone too far. Like when the rights holders are saying, this is ridiculous, I don't know what the call. This is the problem. And I think what I think needs to happen is some sort of just the rules are there. We don't have to rewrite the rulebook. We're just saying enforce the rule book.

It's not rewrite it. It's enforce it. It's there. And I think what people say is, well, I don't want the referees deciding the game. but they're doing that right now. Yes. By not calling the game, they're affecting. We have to accept the fact that referees will have an impact on the game.

What we want to do is mitigate that. We want the referees impact on the game to be minimal. And when they don't call things, it's probably more impactful when they do crack down on everything, right? So that's it's about creating a standard. That's all. Yeah. And I think if you're the Vegas Golden Knights,

you're taking what the referees are allowing. right? So I don't think, you know, you think you can just punch the kid in the face and there's no, like there's going to be no penalty. You're probably going to go punch the kid in the face because Nick Suzuki's playing great and you want to throw them off. So you're going to go do it because you're like, I'm probably going to get away with this. So why not? Why not take what they're giving? And that's not how the game should be played. I mean, you know, we're not just talking about little nicks and bumps. We're not talking about how the game gets harder and faster and stronger in the playoffs like this is these are blatant penalties right like we're not complaining about you know

johnny gudrow getting you know to getting hit all the time in the playoffs because he's a smaller player and guys know they can go at him like that's legal checking is legal they're going to go at a smaller player who's the best player on the team these are getting punched in the face and arguably high sticked i don't even know what to call that in cori pairs like is that a high stick or a slash slash to the face yeah i guess It's a high stick because it was in the face. But, you know, these aren't these aren't little things. This isn't just contact because it's playoff hockey.

Like these are, these are penalties. There's rules about this. And, you know, I took note of what Biaxa said and Craig Simpson said as well. I mean, Craig said, if you want to lose control of a game, this is how you do it. It's just ridiculous. And I agree, they've lost control. And I think Biazza called it prison rules. Yeah, yeah, Biaxas said prison rules.

Yeah. And I actually found this tweet from, There was a fan who sent this to John Liu, who does a great job covering the Canadians for TSN. A fan sent this in and John Lou confirmed it. Chris Lee, who was officiating the last game and West Macaulay officiated the game in the bubble in August when Matt Niskinan's cross-checked went unpenalized despite breaking Brennan Gallagher's jaw. So this happened last year too. Brendan Gallagher is the picture of his face all bloodied. His jaw is broken.

No call on the play. So there's a rulebook for a reason, like you said, Ian, and we're not asking for the refs to overcall things. We're also not asking them to put their whistles away. We're just asking for them to call the rulebook. And it's, I don't think that it shouldn't even be a conversation. It should just be happening. But I don't know if there's going to create change.

I know that was the initial question. Is it going to create change on anything? I don't know. The rights holders are talking, but I know Ron McLean wasn't. I don't want to throw anyone under the bus, but I know Elliot Friedman attempted to speak about the refereeing, and he was promptly cut off.

And that was a couple of nights ago. But I think it's interesting that we stay on the theme of the national broadcasters and rights holders. With TNT and ESPN entering the equation in the United States, there's something to be said for this. They don't want, I don't think the National Hockey League wants their panels sitting around as they're trying to grow the game talking about miss cross-checks and hooking calls.

I think you want to talk about Artemmy Panarin and Connor McDavid and Sasha Barkov and whoever else who want to Eichl and Matthews and whoever else. We need to talk about the stars of the game. And when you watch the NBA on TNT, they're talking about Kauai and LeBron and whoever else, you know,

the elite players in the game, although the final four teams left standing, The NPA is another story. But you're talking about Janus, right? You're talking about the best players. You're not often talking about, I can't believe they let this go and they can't. And same with the NFL.

You talk about the brilliance of your best players. You don't talk about, unless you're New Orleans Saints fan, you don't talk about the missed calls. So this is what we want, is hoping that the new television, decision deal has an impact on the way that the game is called, almost like it's a rebirth of the game. I'm hoping, fingers crossed,

like we saw out of 0506, like when the lockout happened, all those people that had the huge years in 0506 statistic, I think like Brian Gianta, like freaking had 47 goals out of the lockout. But it's because the power, everyone was getting power plays. Because they're calling everything.

Yeah. That's what you should do. Call everything. Yeah. And I mean, everything you just said about the rights holders, like that's what like we obviously, I prefer to be talking about the players. I'd prefer to be talking about the stars. And look at the Jets and Edmonton Oilers series. No one was talking about how great McDavid is. Everyone was talking about how oh my God, he's getting absolutely mauled every time he goes on the ice that he can't produce anything because it's just being, he's just getting hit and they're blatant penalties. So everyone was talking about the reference. freeing instead of Connor McDavid. And it's not great for building the game. Like I'd prefer to be talking about the stars, just like you said,

just like I'm sure the league wants their national rights holders to be. But we also need to be talking about accountability as well. So I don't know. I would rather not be talking about refereeing, but it's become such a huge conversation that it's hard to ignore it anymore. Yeah.

But look, as we go back to talking about the game, we're down to a best of three with the Islanders and the Lightning, which is going to be fun. I guess if you're a Habs fan, you're looking at this and saying, you know, when we won the Stanley Cup in 93, our path was made a lot easier when the New York Islanders took out the defending Stanley Cup champions. Back then, it was the Pittsburgh Penguins. This time around, it might be the Tampa Bay Lightning. It's down to a best of three. And I got to give the Islanders a ton of credit because every series, Haley, they've been down to one, one game four.

Then they come back to win the series. This has been a lot of fun and full credit to the Lightning for coming back. and making game four super interesting right up until the final two seconds of regulation time. Yeah, no, I think it's been a great series. That game was really exciting to watch. I didn't catch the beginning. I watched the end, which was, you know, when it got really interesting. So it was perfect.

But no, I think it's been a good series. And obviously there's a lot of people who would want the Tampa Bay Lightning to go to the Stanley Cup final. I'm sure there's a lot of people who don't want them because they don't want to see a repeat. But no, I'm a big fan of the New York Islanders. I know a lot of people think that they're boring. They don't love the style of play, but we had Arthur Staples on last week, and he rejected that. I think they're a fun team to watch. And you talk about cheering for for stories and people.

We both covered Jean-Gabriel Pajot. He's a great guy. And we know the impact that he's made on that team. So that's really easy to cheer for too. I don't really have any predictions for that series. I really think it could go either way with these last. three games because you've got the style and the system that the Islanders play. And then you have the style and system that Tampa plays,

but also arguably the best gold tender in the league. And like we talk about Flurry and we're talking about Flurry and Kerry Price. And then Hontry Vasselowski is just over there doing his thing. So they've got him. They've got Braden Point and Stephen Stamcoast. And I mean, there's so many players that you can name Kutrov. So it's tough. I really think it'd go either way.

the star power or the system. I really don't know. You know, the Islanders are known for being a great airtight lock-it-down team, but they almost let a 3-0 lead evaporate in game four. And it would have happened if not for the terrific work of a defenseman Ryan Pulock at the end of the game. Ryan McDonough with an unbelievable, like that's a great play from McDonough to basically do a spinorama in the high slot.

He essentially deeks Varlamov right out of the crease. Okay? And the net is empty and Poolock slides in to make a game saving save. And I'll ask you this, is that the, certainly from a timely perspective, that might be as timely as a save you'll ever see from any non-goly. Is that the best save you've ever seen from a non-goly? I mean, you sent one earlier. I sent you one. It's the 2011 playoffs. And that's the year the Bruins would end up winning the Stanley Cup.

we played the Bruins in the first round, and Michael Ryder, somehow Tim Thomas gets sucked right out of the net. And Michael Ryder actually makes like a glove save with his right hand. Like he actually does the motion. I think it was, it might have, if it wasn't patcher ready, it was, it was a pretty, it might have been placanates, but it was an unbelievable save. Like to me, that's one of the best I've ever seen from a non-goly. Mm-hmm. There was a funny one. I don't think it's the best one ever, but there was a funny one. this year on the flames, Michael Stone made like a kick save on Connor McDavid. I think, you know, Jacob Markstrom was, you know, pulled over the side.

They had a great play to McDavid, who was wide open. And Michael Stone was, you know, he was down. But then he just kicked his ankle out, like sprawling goaltender save and made the stop with his ankle on Connor McDavid. And everyone's like, whoa, like sign him up for the Vesna. It was a, wasn't the best save ever. but it was funny to see your third pair defensemen make a sprawling

kick save on one of the best players in the world. You know, what I thought about too with Ryan Poulock was he had to be careful there too, Haley, because if he technically put his glove and his hand over the puck while he was in the blue paint, in theory, the referees could have called a penalty shot.

Now, we just spent some time talking about how the referees aren't calling anything. I don't know that they would have had the fortitude to call a penalty shot, with two seconds left in regulation time. Like that would have been something else. But the ability for Poulog to make that save at that spot, wow. Penguins fans will tell you, there's another one. And I want to say it was the year the Penguins won the Cup in 2009.

Yeah, because they ended up winning the Cup. Rob Skidari, who played in Pittsburgh and was kind of your classic stay-at-home, fifth-six defenseman. He made an unbelievable save. I think Mark Andre Fleury was out of the net. And to preserve the lead late in the game against Detroit, Rob Skidari made like one or two unbelievable saves. Like Penguins fans, I'll tell you,

if you bring up the name Rob Skidary to a Penguins fan, they'll be like, oh, yeah, they'll know about the save. But I think that's what's going to be for Islanders fans. If they go on to the Cup final, Ryan Poulock is going to be their Rob Scadari forever with that save. Yeah, I mean, I'm sure there's so many more and people can send us them on Twitter as well. it's such a niche subject, excuse me, you know, the best non-goaltender saves, especially in a

podcast where we're talking about so many great goaltenders. But yeah, send us your best ones, because I'll admit, I mean, the Rob Skidary one comes to mind, the one that you sent was great, but I don't know, all I thought was was Michael Stone this year. It's probably a recency bias because it wasn't the best one, but I'm really bad at this. We should probably put the caveat in, but best saved by a positional player while the goal. goalie still on the ice because I'm sure that there's been some situations where the net say yeah yeah yeah you know what I made like there's been probably some empty net yeah we were looking for the goalie for some reason it's like when you're playing nchel uh EA sports and you

got the manual goalie and you accidentally put the goalie in the corner you're like oh I just lost my goalie uh that's what we're looking for where the goalie like just slides right out and a player uh has to to roll right in um I want to also talk to you about the NHL awards Haley that have been starting to trickle out as the league gives out the award for, you know, and the reason why I want to bring this up is the Lady Bing. Okay. Because it did come out on Twitter. Damien Cox is a pretty well-known reporter.

He's covered the Toronto Maple Leafs for a long, long time, covered the NHL, was part of the Sportsnet broadcast for a long time. Damien Cox went off on the voters who picked Jacob Slavin of the Carolina Hurricanes as the Lady Bing Award winner. And Damian Cox's argument is superstars like Connor McDavid and Austin Matthews have to play through all sorts of stuff. And they don't take penalties in retaliation. And he believes that is more deserving of the lady Bing than Jacob Slavin, who played the entire season for the Carolina Hurricanes, logging around 20 some odd minutes a night and took one, counted one penalty all season long,

and it was for puck over glass. Yeah. So do you think there's a legitimate controversy here that Jacob Slavin won the Lady Bing? Because look, look, I'll be fully transparent. I had a vote. I voted Jacob Slavin. I had some conversations with people. And you should.

When you have a vote, like it's a big deal. Yeah. And so I try to reach cast a wide net. I don't want to do it in isolation. And Slavin's name was brought up to me a couple of times. They're like, listen, you got to do the numbers here. Imagine playing an entire season in the NHL as a lot. defender and taking one,

you didn't take a hooking penalty, a holding penalty, a roughing penalty. You took one puck over glass. Like if you want to talk and the penalty isn't for the fewest, oh, the awards or he isn't for the fewest penalty minutes. It's, hey, who can play the game in the most gentlemanly way, whatever? I think that that's pretty remarkable what Jacob Slavin did. So I gave him my vote,

but then I saw this narrative on Twitter that that's a mistake. So did anybody get this wrong? No, I don't think so. So because, you know, Jacob Slavin's not playing against, you know, fourth liners. He's typically playing against, you know, elite level competition. You know, this year it was different with the, with the divisional format. I mean, but he was playing against the Florida's and the Tampa's. You know, this is a guy who's probably matching up and trying to cover Stephen Stamcoast

and he's not taking a single penalty on when, you know, he's playing against the top tier competition every night and he's not taking penalties. I mean, that's technically the way that the game is supposed to be played. You know, I think it's great that Austin Matthews and Connor McDavid don't take a ton of penalties. But I think, you know, what a lot of people do with this award is they'll go and look at the top of the score sheet, you know, who are the league leaders in points and who has the fewest penalty minutes. And they'll look at that and say, gentlemanly, excellent. Like, let me just pick the guy with the most points in the fewest penalty minutes. But that doesn't necessarily mean that they're playing the game in the most gentlemanly way.

And, you know, Sarah Sivian had, you know, a piece on it earlier before he even won the award where she was saying he should win it because not only did he only take one penalty, but Jacob Slavon's also just a good dude. He's a really good teammate. He doesn't swear on the ice. He doesn't drink. He plays the game with the utmost respect for his teammates, his opponents for the game. And that's what the lady bang is. It's the gentleman. It's the guy who respects the game of hockey. It's the guy who plays it in that way. So I don't know how you can look at all that and say that this was the wrong play. Great. Connor McDavid didn't retaliate. I mean, he also did. He just didn't get penalized. Like, he took a pretty big elbow to someone's head. Forgive me, I forget who it was.

But he retaliated a few times with a really high shot. So, you know, he's not exactly. I mean, look, I'm not trying to argue that Connor McDavid's not a gentleman. He's one of the best, he is the best player in the game. And he doesn't take that many penalties. but we can't say that he's never retaliated because that's not true. Was it cut, Kenny Amy?

No, not a Gallagher. I really don't remember who it was, but there is the screenshot of him just elbow up because he was pissed off that he kept getting hit and he kept getting hacked and there was no calls. And because I saw people defending Connor McDavid's hit to the head by saying, well, what else is you supposed to do when people aren't making the calls?

Yeah. hit the guy in the head. Yeah, I double-check. Yeah, it was cut to Namy. It was cut to me. Yeah, I do remember that. And for sure, that was a... Look, and one incident doesn't mean he's a bad guy or not a gentleman.

I'm just saying you can't base your entire argument looking at points in penalty minutes when there's more things that happen in the game. And Connor McDavid may have been a really great candidate for the Lady Bing. And I don't even want to make the argument that he's, he shouldn't have won. I just think it's that Jacob's Slaven deserved it. And I don't, I just, this is a weird conversation. I think, and it's a lady Bing. The players should be voting for the lady bang.

We don't know. How am I supposed to know who's a gentleman? I'm watching from the upper bowl because I can't go down there. Like, how are we supposed to know who's a gentleman on and off the ice? You know what I think the lady bang should be a player vote. Yeah, that's a great point. And you know what? I think what I don't like about the voting process is it too often NHL awards come down to

disparaging people rather than building them up. Right. Yeah. And that's why I was like saying that about McDavid. I was like, no, no. I don't like this. This happens all the time. Instead of building up candidates, people are tearing them down, right?

You'll tear down Jacob Slavin or you'll tear down Connor McDavid or you'll tear down Austin Matthews, whoever the candidates are. And that's not what it should be about. Awards are a good thing. And there's just weird culture and hockey where I think we just get so angry about awards that it kind of just puts this big dark cloud over the whole process. says. Yep. I agree. Um, I mean, even the one that really grosses me out is arguing about the Masterton. Don't. Oh, yeah. I feel like the lady big is not that far behind. Yeah. Like,

who's the biggest gentleman? Well, not this guy. He sucks. It should be this guy. Okay. It's just, I don't know. Everyone just wants to argue about everything now. It's a little bit tiring. But I think Jacob Slaven deserved it. Obviously, it wasn't just one or two people who voted for. I'm Like he won the award. So, you know, arguing that he shouldn't win it, it's you're arguing with a large, I didn't see the actual ballot, but you're arguing with a really large amount of people

who clearly disagree. So. Exactly. All right, Haley, as always, we'll wrap up the Monday edition of the Athletic Hockey Show with a little multiple choice madness. We've got a handful of questions here for you. Let's start with this one.

Haley, which goalie, are you more certain is going to finish his career with his current team. A, Mark Andre Fleury with Vegas or B, Kerry Price with Montreal. Who are you more certain? You know what? That guy is going to retire wearing that team's jersey. I'm going to probably say Carrie Price just because, you know, Vegas is, you know, it's been really well documented. Their cap situation, they're pretty tight to the cap. They have a lot of money tied up in both Robin Lanner and Mark Andre Fleury. So we really don't. know what's going to happen, what they're going to do to try to shed some of that cap space.

I mean, the trade rumors with Flurry were pretty loud last summer. I mean, the fact that he's playing so well might quiet those down, but the fact remains, they're very tight to the cap and they have a ton of money tied up in their goaltender. So I don't know what the future holds for Carrie Price, you know, but I think it's probably a little bit more unpredictable with the Vegas Golden Knights goaltending situation. So I'm going to say, Carrie Price. Man, okay, so here's the only thing. Like, Kerry Price is signed through 2026.

Like, that's the only thing that makes me think that maybe he doesn't end his career with the habs. But I don't know, like, where do you come down on this argument? Okay. Let's say the habs win the Stanley Cup this year. Does that make it more likely that Kerry Price ends his career as a hab or less likely? Because you could make the argument if they win the cup, he's like, you know what, I'm cemented, I'm a hab for life, whatever. but you could flip it around and say,

you know what, he's won his cup. Now he can go wherever he wants. Maybe he wants to end his career on the West Coast, maybe he wants to go. Like, I could see both sides of it. And I don't know where I come down. If they win the cup, I don't know where I come down on,

does that cement him as an all-time cap? Or does it open the door for him to leave? Because now he's done his job. I mean, but if he wins a cup, then it's not like he's going to, because I mean, let's say they lose, then you could realistically say, well, you know, maybe Carrie Price, we should let him go so we can go win a cup, you know?

Like, we see players chase the cup. So if they win this year, he doesn't have to go chase the cup because he's got one. So maybe he's just happy to be a hab for life. But yeah, I mean, he's not from Montreal. Maybe he wants to go play closer to home. Maybe he's had a place that he's always wanted to play. So I don't know. But I also really just don't know what's going to happen with the Golden Knights situation.

So I still think that that's a little bit more unpredictable. I think Carrie Price would go a number of ways. So I'm with you. I don't know where that's going to fall. I don't know where either of them will. It's a good question. But yeah, I think I'm still going to stick with with Carrie Price being there longer. I mean, at least longer than Mark Andre Fleury.

Oh, yeah. Again, who knows? Because Fleury only probably has a couple of years left in the league. But tell you what, I for now I'll say Mark Andre Fleury has a better chance of ending his career. with the Golden Knights, but that's just based on the timelines rather than anything else. Okay, question number two. We're talking about NHL awards.

Alex Barkoff won the Selkechhofe. Haley, is it time for us to crown Sasha Barkov as the best two-way player in the game right now? Options are A, yes, B, no, I'll go first on this one. I'm still going to give that mantle to Patrice Bergeron. I think Patrice Bergeron, to me, had another good year. He was almost point a game again this year. 23 goals in a shortened year.

I think he's hanging on to the title, maybe by his fingertips, and I think Barkoff is ready to push him off. But I still think Patrice Bergeron, if you're telling me who's the best two-way player in the game, I still think it's Bergeron by a hair. That's where I'm going. What about you?

Do you think Barcoff now deserves the mantle, best two-way player in the game? I think it's interesting because when we have these discussions about the Selke Trophy, and we talk about the best two-way players, I think reputation typically precedes a lot. I think there's been years where I think it was last year, you know, we were having these discussions.

I think Dom Lus Chishin did a great story. Note the pronunciation of his last name, Ian. Tom did a really great story about who's going to win the Selke. And one of the things was Anthony Sorrelli was incredible. He's a very, very talented two-way player. But it was like there's no way he's going to win the Selke this year because this is his first year kind of being on that ballot. And it typically takes you a long time of being a good two-way player to finally win the Selke.

Because the reputation and how long you've been that two-way player kind of takes precedence over the way you play. I think Mark Stone's in that conversation. I think we talked about Mark Stone being a great two-way player for a long time before he really got into the conversation against the, you know, Patrice Bergeron's. So I think I agree with you. that Bergeron is still the best two-way player in the game. I think he's probably one of the most complete players. The NHL Players Association released their player poll, and it was Sidney Crosby and Patrice Bergeron is the most complete players in the league.

I think Barkov was lower down the list because, you know, Crosby and Bergeron got the most votes. So I don't know if he deserves the mantle as like the best all. Like are we talking about just this year? the best all time. Like, no, no, certainly not the best of all time. Just right now who's the best two-way player in the game? Is it Alex Barkoff?

Or is it Bergeron? Or is it, like you said, Crosby probably deserves some kind of merit or merit some conversation there? Yeah. There's a bunch of. And it's tough because I just said, like, it's all about the kind of reputation that they have. So I think it's easy to say that it's Bergeron or sitting Crosby.

Because they've been playing the game that way for so long. But I think it's, we always talk about Barkov being one of the most under rated players in the league. We talk about him being so underrated so much that, you know, he's not anymore. I don't, I think so. I mean, he won the Selke. He had a great year. He's an excellent two-way player. And we saw the success that Tampa had this year with him. So I'm going to say yes, that whole talking around it. I'm going to say yes for right now. Okay. Well, listen, we're stick with the awards thing. Let me ask you this question because earlier in the show you said, you know what? I think the players should be the ones voting on the lady

Bing. As it stands now, the Professional Hockey Writers Association, Haley, they vote on the majority of the major awards. That includes the Heart Trophy, you know, Lady Bing, the Norris. Some of the biggest awards are voted on by the writers. Here's the question.

Should we change it? Should the PHWA, the Professional Hockey Writers Association, Haley, should they be the ones voting on the majority of NHL awards? A, yes, B, no. I think if you were to ask people at the league or players, would probably say it shouldn't be writers. But I mean, I think that obviously we're a little bit

biased because we're both writers. I had a ballot last year. I didn't have one this season just because of the kind of restructuring of the ballots. They only gave like two ballots to each person, each team and all the divisions because they didn't want it to be, you know, a heavy North division vote or a heavy Pacific or whatever Pacific division. That wasn't even a division this year. I'm having a tough day. But obviously we're a little bit biased because we are writers. I think that there are certain awards that we should vote on. I think having your writers voting on things like the Norris or things like the heart, I think that's great. I did already mention that I think something like the Lady Bang with the most gentlemanly. I don't think that the writer should be

voting on that. I don't think that we have the right. not the criteria, but I just don't think we have the right, you know, knowledge of that to be able to accurately vote on it. I think gentlemanly is something that you can't really pick up on a stat sheet and the way that people do it is they look at penalty minutes and I don't think that is exactly the best way to vote on who's a gentleman. And especially if you're a beat writer who doesn't travel, you know, the only locker room you're in is your locker room. So you're probably going to of voting for someone that you're very familiar with rather than somebody across the league who should be winning the award. So I think that's one that should be taken away. But I think the ones

about like player performance, I don't see why they would be taken away from writers unless the league wants to make the argument that the writers don't know well enough. But then that creates a whole other problem of just bashing the media that cover your league when you need media to cover your league. So it's, I'm half and half on it. I think there's some awards that we should have. and some that should be the players or the league or the team executives, etc. You know what? Here's what I think it's time for. I think it's time for a hybrid model of voting.

And I don't know what the percentage is if it's 50% or the writers, 50% players, or maybe it's 33% writers, 33% players, 33% executives, you know, figure out the other 1%. But I wonder if it's not time for that. Because look, with a lot of these awards, Hart, Norris, etc., there's some financial components for the players, right? Bonuses, leverage in contracts. There's a lot at stake here.

And I think it should be in some sort of a hybrid model that that way it's less likely you're going to get something wrong if it's weighted equally amongst the players, the media, and the general managers. Right? Like, I think that that's a fair way. Like, I think we have the technology. and the ability to do that, I'd love to see, because then that way you're satisfying everybody.

Like the writers still have a voice. The general managers and the players now have a bigger voice. And as you said, with the lady Bing, they'll have more intimate knowledge of those types of things. I don't see why this isn't the case, right? So that's my vote. I say no to the writers having sole votes and yes to a hybrid model. Yep. And I think that was what I was trying to get at, just saying we should have some.

But I didn't explain it very well. Yeah. So we agree. We're in agreement. Okay. I'll tell you what. We got time for one more. Multiple choice madness question here on a Monday.

Let me ask you this, Haley. We saw Nicholas Waugh score in the overtime winner for the Vegas Golden Nights. We've seen some great overtime moments in the Stanley Cup playoffs. So I want you to put yourself in the shoes or the skates of an athlete. And you tell me, what do you think would be the best feeling as an athlete? Okay. I gave you four options here. Would it be A, to score an overtime winner in the Stanley Cup playoff,

so that that feeling, that rush that adrenaline, would it be B, you hit a walk-off home run to win a baseball game? Would it be C, you hit a three-pointer maybe from downtown, your team is down by two, you nail a buzzer-beater, it's a walk-off, you nail it, and you just walk off the court, or D, maybe your football team is down by six points, and you complete a Hail Mary at the last second. I don't know if you would want to be the quarterback

or you'd rather be the receiver, but you score a last second, a touchdown of a football game. What do you think would be the best feeling? Scoring an overtime winner in hockey, walk off Homer in baseball, buzzer beater and basketball, Hail Mary in football.

What would it be? My bias is showing, but it's got to be the OT winner and the Stanley Cup playoffs for me. You know, I think that's, one of the hardest trophies to win in professional sports. I don't think that is crazy to say. Obviously, it's not easy to win an NBA championship. It's not easy to win in the NFL or in the MLB. But I just think that, you know, we see the kind of warrior mentality and how, you know, difficult it is for these teams to get through all those playoff series.

You hear the players talk about it. It's the same in every sport. But, you know, again, it's just my bias being such a huge hockey fan. covering the game. I mean, it's the reason I work in hockey is because I love hockey and I think it's one of the greatest sports. So I'm,

it's got to be the OT winner in the Stanley Cup playoffs for me. Oh, see, I thought you would go with your basketball because I know you played basketball growing up. I did.

I would have thought, like, can you imagine how cool that would be to be an athlete? And I thought about this too. If you're a basketball player, Haley, would you want to hit a game-ending

three-pointer to win it? Would you want to do that at home or on the road? Like would you like to just shut up at 18,000, like silence them? Would that be more satisfying? Or you do it at home and people go bananas? Because I think there's an argument to be made that silencing people would be super, like, that would be a great feeling too, right?

Yeah. But your fans would be so great. And I mean, you'd have your own fans in the visiting team for sure. If it was the finals, you know, people would travel for that. We saw it with the Raptors. There was plenty of Raptors fans in Golden State. But no, the bat, hitting the three, is up there, I think, because obviously someone's making you the pass or there's a set play,

but like hitting the three-pointer to win the game. And in basketball is different because you can have a superstar who can just take over the game. Like if you're LeBron James hitting the three, the buzzer-beater three to win the championship for the however many times he's done something. And I'm sure that feels incredible. But I think there's just a lot more, you know, of team play that goes into the overtime winner in a Stanley Cup playoffs. I don't know. It just seems more special to me. But I mean, watching Kauai Lennar hit that, it wasn't in the finals, but the Kauai shot

against Philly, the photo, the reaction, just like what it meant for the city. And I mean, I played basketball. Like, I got emotional when the Raptors were going to the final and when they won. Like, that was huge. So you are talking me a little bit into the basketball. because that was the sport that I played at a pretty high level. But, no, it's still the Stanley Cup playoffs for me. Yeah, it's tough.

And I also think hitting a walk-off home run and baseball would be pretty cool. Like that feeling of, you know what, the game is in. They're all cool. Like, this is a sweet question. No. I'm doing my hand. But you can make the argument for any of them. And I don't think you're wrong.

Yeah. Listen, we'll leave it there. Haley, coming up, we've got a jam-pack week of the athletic hockey show. We're reminded to our listeners, five days a week, Athletic Hockey Show. Those Team USA guys, Custin's and Jen Tilly, they're on deck for Tuesday. Burnside LeBrun, two-man advantage on Wednesday. Myself down goes Brown Thursday. Max Boltman, Corey Promin, Friday got the Prospect Series.

So when we're back, we're just going to will this into existence, Haley. Ralph Machio. Right? Ralph Machio joins the show a week from now. Yes? I hope so. If we say it and believe it, it'll come true. We're going to manifest

a karate kid on the athletic hockey show. Exactly. What if we can't manifest it if they're going to lose? So we've got to manifest an Islanders win. Yeah, that's what we're trying to do to get Ralph Machio on the show. I guess we're on the bandwagon. Worst case, we got Hulk Hogan coming up on Monday. Who do you think would be more likely, to come on the show.

Hulk Hogan or Ralph Machio. I'm going to say Ralph Machio. You don't think Hulk Cogan would be interested? I don't know anything about wrestling. No, would we ask Hulk Cogan? I don't know anything about wrestling. So you know what? I think Ralph Machio would be more likely to come on.

What would we ask him? Just being an Islanders fan, Cobra Kai taking off on Netflix. We could do something with him. Okay. I don't know if it would be quality content. We could do it. Yeah, we could do it for sure.

All right. Hey, listen, enjoy the games this week. Those series are down to best of three. This should be a lot of fun. Enjoy your week, Haley, and we'll get you again maybe or maybe not with Ralph Machio next month. I hope so. Love it. All right.

And thanks, everybody, for listening to us here at the Athletic Hockey Show. Follow us on your favorite podcast platform. Leave us a rating and review. You know, we appreciate that. A reminder, you can get an annual subscription to the athletic for just, 399 a month when you visit theathletic.com slash hockey show.