The Athletic Hockey Show - Robin Lehner’s wild weekend tweetstorm, New York Rangers playoff hopes with Rick Carpiniello, Toronto Maple Leafs high expectations with James Mirtle, Multiple Choice Madness, and more

Episode Date: October 4, 2021

First, Ian and Hailey discuss Robin Lehner’s weekend tweetstorm essentially accusing NHL teams of medical malpractice, as a reaction to Jack Eichel’s ongoing struggle with the Buffalo Sabres about surgical options for his neck injury, Edmonton Oilers forward Josh Archibald being out indefinitely after a myocarditis diagnosis related to a battle with COVID-19 in the offseason, and more.Then, The Athletic’s Rick Carpiniello joins the show to talk about playoff expectations for the New York Rangers this season, if the franchise overreacted to last year’s Tom Wilson incident with their offseason moves, Mika Zibanejad’s contract situation, Jack Eichel still as a potential trade target, what Adam Fox’s next deal could look like, Alexis Lafrenière’s future, and more.Next, The Athletic’s James Mirtle joins the show to give his thoughts on the All or Nothing: Toronto Maple Leafs documentary series, Sheldon Keefe’s extension with the team, Mitch Marner on the hottest hot seat this season, what’s at stake for the Leafs after another playoff disappointment last season, and more.Plus, to close things out, Ian and Hailey run through a series of Multiple Choice Madness questions including the most anticipated return for a player to his old city this season, if Alex Pietrangelo being amongst the first three Team Canada players added to the roster was surprising, and which veteran defenseman would you take in a fantasy hockey draft.Join The Athletic Hockey Show’s official fantasy hockey pool on OfficePools.com: http://www.officepools.com/invite/classic/m/HAFE2H6QAnd, right now, you can save 50% on an annual subscription to The Athletic when you visit http://theathletic.com/hockeyshow Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hey, everybody. We're excited to kick off another week with you with a brand new episode of the Athletic Hockey Show. Ian Madis Haley-Salvian with you for the next hour or so. Coming up on this episode of the podcast, we're going to tee up something we're doing all week long on the athletic hockey show. We're calling it Storyline Week. It's the final week at training camps, so we're bouncing around the league for the biggest

stories around the NHL. And today we're going to drop in on a couple of original six training camps. We'll chat with Rick Carponello from the New York. Rangers and James Myrtle on the Toronto Maple Leaf. So we're looking forward to that. Robin Leonard is in the news with some outspoken comments on Twitter. That is certainly getting a lot of attention and traction in the hockey world. We'll sink our teeth into that.

Multiple Choice Madness will zero in on some star players returning to their original cities, just like Tom Brady did on Sunday night in Foxborough. So we'll get to all of that coming up in the next hour as we say hello to Haley Salveon on this Monday and Haley, it's tricky for me when I talk about Brady. All I can think about is Kachuk. And he's like the last guy who's not signed. And now it's getting weird in Ottawa. So all I could see was Brady was trending on Twitter on Sunday night.

But it was Tom Brady, unfortunately, and not Brady Kachuk. Yeah. It's like you have these little moments of just like, you know, those like memes and pictures of people and you see and they just look, did I, leave my oven on, you know, like that's you. Like, just thinking of, you hear like the name Brady and you're like, like, faints a little bit. Yeah.

I don't envy the position. I think, you know what, though? I will say, I think, didn't I say when we did multiple choice madness a couple weeks ago, I said Brady was going to be the last one to be signed. So I'm sorry, I'm sorry, but this is good for me. It's good for my ego, my confidence heading into the season. Is it season two of the athletic hockey show yet? I think that starts with the regular season.

This is this is training camp still for us. So we get to work out all of the bugs. All the kings. You know what I'm saying? All the kings. Yeah. We haven't figured it out yet. Yeah.

Yeah. But yeah, we're not even 12 months into this show and yet we're starting season two. So we'll figure that one out. It's kind of weird. But look, I think Haley, the biggest story from this weekend in the NHL had nothing to do with training camp cuts or RFA signings and apologies to our Vancouver listeners. Obviously, Elias Pedersen and Quinn Hughes getting done was huge. But Robin Leonard in the news for, I'll say essentially accusing NHL teams of medical malpractice.

I think that's the best way to summarize Robin Leonard's tweet storm from the weekend in which Lennar essentially said, NHL teams have been handing out prescriptions that they shouldn't be handing out and doing it as if it's like being handed out like it's candy. And I think his biggest issue is I think he's looking at the way his former teammate in Buffalo, Jack Eichl, is being handled, some of the narratives swirling around Eichel. And what Lennar is saying is, hey, like this league has a history of mistreating players. Now, Elliot Friedman, I believe, was the first to report this,

that Bill Daley, the NHL commissioner is going to be attempting to speak with Lennar about these allegations. And Lennar as well, Haley, kind of drew in current Philadelphia Flyers head coach Alan Vino into the conversation, specifically calling him out, saying, hey, I got the goods on Alaino when it comes to some of this stuff. Robin Lennar said, I don't care what they say. I don't lie about these things. Watch now when the NHL will try to cancel me. So this is a huge story.

And I think it behooves the NHL. You can't just let a player say these things without reaching up, reaching out with a follow-up investigation. But my goodness gracious, Haley, this is about as salacious of a storyline as we've seen the NHL in a long, long time. Yeah. And I think there was some stuff that came out this morning to. You know, Elaine Vigno said this morning.

that, you know, his allegations that he was pushing, you know, non-prescription medication were completely false. So that was Elam Vino this morning at either Flyers practice or morning skate. And Emily Kaplan was reporting this morning as well that Lennar clarified he was not accusing El Mvigno of distributing pills to players. His claim was about the way the coach treated as players, which he believes is unacceptable. also Emily Kaplan again reporting that Lennar had a good call with the NHL Players Association yesterday and that we're kind of in this like we'll see what comes to the story this week. So he has talked to the NHLPA.

He has clarified that Elaine Vinyel wasn't pushing, you know, medication. He just has stories about him being, you know, not liking the way that he treats his players. And yeah, it's a huge story. You know, you have a current player going on, you know, and just saying, like, I've got, I've got stories. Like, I'm going to, I'm going to take this all down, like enough's enough of the way that, you know, teams and individual coaches, GMs, etc. Treat players in this league. And I'm going to take matters into my own hands. And I'm going to, you know, I'm going to do something about this.

So, I mean, that's hugely significant, you know, not just. I think the allegations are significant in those in terms of having non you know having medication so readily available like that. I don't think that's particularly new. I think Daniel Carcillo has brought that up many times. We've heard former players in the past talk about that. Rick Westhead from TSN had a big, a big feature on on TV, I think last season, just about, you know, how readily available different medications were and how players became so reliant on them. So that's not an entirely new thing. But again, it just carries a little bit of a different weight when you have a current

player in the middle of training camp going on Twitter and saying like, hey, is this normal? I don't think so. And, hey, I've got way more stuff than this. And I don't know if there's going to be an investigation coming. because obviously now there's a little bit of like, okay, well, what are we investigating with Elaine Vigno that Robin Lender thinks he was a bad guy? Because now it's been clarified that he wasn't just handing out medications. So is there going to be an investigation into the use of these pills league wide?

Like, it'll be, it's going to be really interesting to see how this plays out and to see what happens, you know, is he going to be, is Robin Lennar going to be, is Robin Lennar going to be investigated for going on social media about that kind of stuff? Are all the teams going to be investigated? Is Elaine Vigno going to be investigated? I really don't know what's going to come of this story. But like I said, I think it's hugely significant that you have an active player going on social media and saying stuff like this.

Yeah. And look, Robin Leonard, we need, I think in the hockey world, we need more people like Robin Lennar. And you need more people. Like, I think we have a culture. And it's not just a hockey thing. I think it's in most industries. People don't like whistleblowers.

Whistleblowers are usually not openly accepted by their peers, by their superiors, like right? Nobody, there's no industry that really loves whistleblowers. But boy, do we need them. We need them to call out bad culture. And look, I've known Robin Lennar for a long time. I've known Robin for, I don't know, 10 years, 11 years. He's a lot of things.

He's a complicated individual in my whole. Heart of hearts, the one thing Robin Leonard is not is a liar. I don't believe Robin Leonard is a liar. I really don't. I think it's important we listen to players. I think it's important we listen to somebody who's been such an advocate for mental health. Ask yourself, like, does Robin Leonard have anything to gain here? No?

Well, exactly. Like, he doesn't. Yeah. And sorry to cut you off and you can continue. But yeah, like, why would he lie about this? Because then he's just putting himself into trouble. what does he have to gain? He's not the one that can't play due to injury right now.

I mean, he did say on some of his tweets, you know, part of some of his struggles with mental health, with addiction. You know, he was taking pills from the league. And so he, but again, like, what does he have to gain by lying about this? Like, what does he himself have to gain? There's nothing. No. And that's why it's important. it's important to listen to, like, just listen to people.

Like, listen, when people make these types of allegations, don't dismiss them as, you know, this guy's a renegade and he's out there. No, what if we actually listen to what he said? And I think it was really interesting. Akeem Ali, Haley, who, of course, had his own issues and was very outspoken about the way that the NHL culture was a couple of years ago. I thought his comment on social media on the weekend, was really interesting.

Because he commented on the fact that the NHL was going to reach out to Robin Lennar for an interview. And Akeem Al-U wrote on social media, quote, perhaps the NHL will feign interest, claim to investigate, and never get back to you for two years, and hope the public attention just goes away. What Akeem Al-U is saying is he hasn't heard back from the NHL, from their investigation from a couple of years ago with all the stuff that went on with some of the allegations that he levied that were going on.

So this is important. Like listen to people. Like the NHL talks a very good game about hockey is for everyone and we want to promote this, this certain way of doing things now. We're not like, these are great examples right here. These are great examples of how you can improve the game. And Robin Leonard's calling, and this is my. issue too. When people call out a toxic

culture, so often we get mad at the person with the accusations. Like I can see, I can totally see people say, oh, Robin Leonard's a distraction. Robin, no, like, let's look at the story here. The story isn't that Robin Leonard is speaking out. The story is, is there a pervasive problem with professional hockey teams handing out prescriptions when they shouldn't be, misdiagnosing players, forcing players to come back and play. Like, that's the story.

Let's focus on that. And I think, I think we can agree that there appears to be a story here, Haley, at the very least. Yeah, I think so. And I think that these are really, really important questions that demand attention, whether it's what's being brought up by Robin, whether it's what Akeem has said. Like, these are not insignificant issues or questions.

And these are not things that the NHL can just ignore or continue to push away, push away, push away. We should say, like, these are, you know, the alleged actions. Like, we don't know, we haven't seen, you know, if there are teams who are, like, allegedly handing out benzos, like, the league needs to find that out and find out why and find a way that they can make sure that that's not happening. Again, I think these are really, really important questions and important things that both Robin and Akeem have brought up that the NHL, they can't just, they can't just ignore it.

No, I agree. One other thing I want to hit on kind of in the headline section of this podcast, Haley, Josh Archibald of the Edmonton Oilers, diagnosed with a heart condition now. And as a result of this, will be out of the Oilers lineup indefinitely. And, you know, he was one, Archibald was one of the more outspoken athletes in terms of not wanting to be vaccinated. you went and looked at his social media footprint in the last 18 months, there were some absolute anti-VAC sentiments that were expressed by him.

And now he is out indefinitely with a heart condition. And I just wonder now where this, like if there's any athletes that have been on the fence, and there have been, Andrew Wiggins, a great example of the NBA, a player who didn't want to get it and now is going to get it. Should Josh Archibald be like the cautionary tale here for, here's an athlete in the prime of their life, you would think a physical specimen and all of that stuff that goes with being an athlete

and is now out indefinitely with a heart condition that may or may not resolve itself and may or may not end his career. Like to me, Haley, this should be the type of story that gets told for anybody who is still on the fence, especially when you're talking about athletes, right? Yeah, and I think one of the things that I noticed on the weekend, you know, when that initially started coming out

is some of the replies on Twitter. It was just a disaster of people saying, like, you know, he deserves it. People saying, yeah, well, he could have got that from the vaccine, like, just all over the place. He made a decision. And now his health, his, it's a serious health condition, you know, as a result of getting COVID from the decisions that he made. And yeah, I don't think that this is something where we should, you know, show, put him on a pedestal and say like, you know, look at this huge mistake he made. This is a, you know, we're not trying to ridicule this man who's like now has a heart condition.

But it is a, it is a cautionary tale. I think it absolutely should be. It's the, this is a very clear, a very instant example of the repercussions. of making that decision, which was not getting the vaccine, getting COVID over the summer, and having a long-term heart condition because of that. And that is something that we've known for a really long time about COVID-19 and with all these new variants, is that there are different long-lasting side effects and health problems that can come of this. And that's the thing. It's, yeah, it's a, yeah, people are saying, you know, you get COVID, you just have a really bad flu,

and then you're fine. That is not always true. You could come out of this with a heart condition with other breathing problems, with other long-term health problems, and we're seeing that right now with Josh Archibald. And you hope for the best for his health. I think that goes without saying.

But I think it is a cautionary tale of, you know, and especially if you're in the NHL, you're traveling, you know, I think if you're one of the unvaccinated players in the league, you're actually like, you can't, you have to wear a mask at all times. And I don't, and I have to refresh this. So correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe you have to be like more socially distant from your teammates. You can't, you can't go on certain border trips.

Like, you know, not only is there the health repercussions, but there is other repercussions for your actions just being in the room. Your teammates can all go be unmasked in the room and be together because they're fully vaccinated and in that. But if you're not. Like you're a little bit separated, I believe, is my understanding of that. And you have to wear a mask. And if you get COVID, there's all this other stuff that goes into play.

And you've got your family and your teammates. And it's just, again, we've said this last week when we talked about it with Tyler Bertuzzi. You know, of course, yes, this is a personal choice. You can make that decision. But there is like real repercussions for those decisions, whether it's in the lock. room in your day-to-day life or with your long-term health. All right, Haley, I got to tell you.

So our audience that's listening to us will not be able to see this on the podcast, but I feel like this is a 100% troll job from Rick Carpinello, who covers the New York Rangers because Rick is on a podcast with two people from Canada and he's rocking a New York Yankees head. Haley, right after the Blue Jays got nudged out of the postseason picture of the American League, Haley, before we bring Rick in, this is 100% a troll job, right? On us? It would be worse if it was a Red Sox hat because, like, they were the ones at the end and it was the whole Boston thing, you know, like, oh, Boston sports, like ruining Toronto

again. Like, what a surprise. So, yeah, Yankees, it's, you know, a little too soon, Rick, but it's, you know, it's fine. Yeah. That was the one game I thought they would, it, it would have been fine. I thought the Js would have been fine because the Yankees are playing the race, the best team in baseball. Nope. Nope. Yeah. This is more, this is more like hoping that some Boston people are watching the podcast.

Get ready for tomorrow night. Oh, man. Hey, listen, Rick, this is great. Love to have you drop in here because we're kind of this week on the athletic hockey show just bouncing around the most intriguing teams. As much as we love to talk Yankees with you, we really brought you on to the podcast and talk the Rangers.

So we're bouncing around, looking at the most intriguing teams. I think for a lot of hockey fans, Rick, the Rangers are one of the most intriguing teams. They haven't been a postseason team the last couple of years. But, hey, if everything falls into place, I think people can start to see, hey, this could be a legitimate, you know, contenders. So what are the expectations in that market this season, lots of changes in the off season? Are people feeling like the Rangers are a playoff team this year, Rick? Yeah, it's an interesting question because, you know, what happened last May is the owner pretty much stomped in the room and said,

this team should make the playoffs and fired everybody. You know, the turnover has been remarkable. The fact is, they were on a pretty good path at that point. They, you know, they had gone through the hard part of the rebuild, the restocking the cupboard and picking up all these young kids and assets. And they were on a really, really good path. And you would think that, you know, if the cacos and the Lafraniers and the Hedels and Adam Fox, of course, if those kids continue.

to improve the way they have, and just Sturkin, this is going to be a playoff team really soon anyway. But the owner went a little nuts there and fired everybody and said he thought they underachieved. So it's going to be interesting to see that, you know, with the changes they made on the roster, in addition to the changes they made in the front office, where this team goes. Because I think it was headed in a good place anyway. And I think the old toughness and grit thing was going to be addressed no matter who was at the top of the organization. In fact, I know it was. So they have added that.

They've added something that they need in that department at a cost. And it'll cost some of the young kids some playing time, too. We have Barclay Gujarreau and Sammy Blay and Ryan Reeves in the lineup every night. It's going to cost some prospects and playing time. That said, I think they are great. good enough to make the playoffs. And I think that, you know, that's not just their goal. I think they really believe this this time that they should be a playoff team. And now having said that, comes, of course, the caveat that the metropolitan division is really difficult. And, you know,

until the penguins and the capitals decide to rebuild, it's never going to be easy to get a playoff berth in that division. It won't be easy for anybody. It won't be easy for the islanders. it won't be easy for Carolina, who were probably the two best teams. So the expectations are, yeah, they're a playoff team, but I think the reality is any team, any of those teams that I mentioned, and the Flyers and some others,

could make or miss. So there's no guarantee, certainly, that it never is, but there's no, you can't say, yeah, Rangers are going to be in the playoffs. That, you know, that's just ignorant, I think. Do they have a shot? they absolutely have a shot and they absolutely should be in it to the final week in what Dom called today in his story a dog pile. The division's a dog pile and that's what it's

going to be, I think, all year. You mentioned, you know, they made some changes, you know, with Ryan Reeves and Sammy Blay, Barclay, Goudreau. Did the Rangers overreact to the Tom Wilson stuff from last season and add in too many of those pieces? And like you said, they're going to take spots away from some of the younger players that were supposed to be on this trajectory to being important pieces. Was it an overreaction or the right amount of reaction? I think the overreaction is in Reeves and in Jared Tenorty, who's going to be a seventh defenseman who fought Tom Wilson last year. I think those two guys are the overreaction. Now granted, Reeves is probably here just as much because,

Gerard Galant is the coach and had him in Vegas and loves him. So, you know, in that regard, maybe that's not the overreaction. But Ryan Reeves playing in place of Morgan Barron, a kid who's really had a really good first pro year in Hartford and is big and strong and does all the things that they've said they want to gain this year. He plays tough. He's strong along the boards. He's a good forechecker.

So he's not going to play because Ryan Reeves is playing. I mean, to me, that's an overreaching. reaction. And Jared Tenorty doesn't even belong in top seven, in my opinion. So if he doesn't fight Tom Wilson, then what's the point of Jared Tenorty? So yeah, they did overreact. I think, you know, the Goodrow types, Sammy Blay types, they were going to go after those guys anyway. They were going to, you know, I'm sure they had their eye on Blake Coleman before Jeff Corton and John Davidson got fired. You know, so they had that plan that they needed to get some grit in their bottom six for sure. But yes, I would argue or agree with you that Ryan Reeves and Jared Tenoid are an overreaction to Tom Wilson.

Rick, let's move from the bottom six to the top six. And Mika Zabanajad is maybe one of the most intriguing players on the roster. He's headed to unrestricted free agency next summer. So how does this play out with Zabanajad? What are some of the talk about, what some of the talk about his contract and what that might look like beyond this season? Yeah. And again, this is so complicated. because they flirted all year all summer with Buffalo with Jack Ico.

There's zero chance they can sign Zabanajad and get Igo. They just can't happen. They can't fit that. I mean, I know the cap sites have the Rangers at 9 million space, but that's kind of fake space. That's for this season, minus the overrood of bonuses for the kids. Whatever it is, Adam Fox is going to eat up that 9 million. that money is gone pretty much at the end of the season.

There's no way they can have Eichel and re-sign Zabhanajad. So if Eichael is now going to be off the table, and he probably is with his neck injury and all the insured uncertainty with which way they're going to go with that neck, then it becomes to do you signs of Banerjad at 28 going on 29 to an eight-year, nine million per season contract. I think they do. I think they have to.

I think he's earned it. I believe that he is a legit top center now. But if they do that, then Icles off the table. So it's so complicated. I do know this. If Zabandajad is not signed at the trade deadline, they must trade him. They can't possibly do the John Tavares thing and just let him go to free agency. You can't do that.

He's a really, really important player on this team. He's responsible for a lot of their offense. and he does all the other things, the last minute of a period, the penalty kill, power play. He does everything for them, a really good player and a really complicated decision. Could the Rangers still be in the chase for Jack Eichel or go back into it at some point? Should they or will they? I believe. Could they? Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, I think they have to, I think the next situation has to be straightened out. There has to be some decision made on if he's going to have the surgery. when he's going to have it and how long he's going to be out. I think they're interested enough for sure to revisit it. And I'm sure that he wants to come here. I think that's pretty clear. So, you know, he's, what, three or four years younger than Zabanajad.

He certainly could be seen as a higher level, number one center than Zabanjad. But there's that either or thing. and the either or thing comes into what Zabandiget has done. And his trajectory is pretty good. I mean, his last two seasons before he was hit with COVID were remarkable. And then after he kind of got over the COVID midseason last year, his second half was pretty remarkable too. So he's done it.

I mean, he's a guy. And I'm doing a story with where we talked to some anonymous former. rangers. And a lot of them pointed out in this case with Zabaniad that he's proven he can play in New York. And some guys can't. And I think that's probably more prevalent in other sports, especially like a pitcher in baseball or a quarterback. But the fact is sometimes it's different playing here. And I'm sure you guys know it's different in Toronto or it's different in Montreal than it is in Arizona or San Jose. And but Zabanajette has done. it and he's proven he can do it on this stage. So that's something he'd be considered too.

Obviously, his age works against him, but again, I go back to Ico. He's younger and he's probably got more ceiling. And I think they would revisit it if it gets resolved. And just the last one on the Ikel stuff, because I know this is something that we've all been talking about for so long, but I think, you know, the big question whenever it comes to him is just what would it cost? and what players are completely off the table. Have you been able to think about, you know, what might it cost the New York Rangers to acquire Jack Eichel and who would be absolutely off limits?

Yeah, I think that's, you know, that's a good question. I think that because Buffalo's kind of backed up, back into a corner here, I don't think the price tag is going to be as high as people thought. Now, Kako and Lefranier are definitely off the table. You know, before, say, mid-season last year, everybody thought, Adam Foxwell, there's no, there's zero chance they're trading Adam Fox. So, you know, we're talking about another tier of guys like Vitaly Crafts, Philip Heedle, Morgan Barron, perhaps, Matthew Robertson, Braden Schneider. These are all prospects, and I'm sure it would cost the first rounder at some point in there and maybe even backup goalie Alexander Yergge. they're not getting the top-level profits from Rangers.

That's just not going to happen. And I think Buffalo knows that. I think they know the situation they're in. A final question for you, Rick, here. It's a rarity when a player wins the Norris Trophy on an entry-level contract. But that's what Adam Fox did last season. Eric Carlson won a Norris trophy in his entry-level deal and got a big payday. Adam Fox going in the last year of his deal.

What are the expectations on him? And you kind of mentioned that $9 million figure a little bit earlier. But let's talk about like what could Adam Fox do this season and what could that next contract look like, Rick, for him in New York? Yeah. You know, I think this summer, the price has been set. You know, all these defensemen, Jones and all these other defensemen, Hamilton, getting these $9 million figure, 9.5, 9.2, whatever it is,

I think that's the bar now. And granted, he's a young player and he's not a UFA, so that goes against his bargaining power. But I do think that if the Rangers are wise, they tie him up for as long as they can. And it's going to be, I would think, 9 million. I don't see why it wouldn't be, why it would be less than that. And especially if he has another good year and there's no reason to think he won't. he's some special player man i mean you know last year i did a story with leach uh and i called leach to talk about him and he said what took you so long you know he said and he said when i watch this

kid and i see the decisions that he makes and the way he reacts under pressure and in traffic um i think did i did i do those things you know and if i did that's pretty good you know we're talking about Brian Leach. So he's, you know, if he's wowed by him, then certainly the rest of it should be too. He's a real special player. I think it's going to be nine. I think nine is the number. And they better clear some cap room for him because that's what it's going to take.

And they have to do it. I know Ian said that was the last question. But being in Calgary, I'm not going to leave this on the Adam Fox note for obvious reasons. But no, I think, you know, just wanted to ask. you, but Alexei Lafoneer, I know, you know, there was a lot of expectations on him coming into his first season last year as the first overall pick. What have you seen from him in preseason and what do you think Rangers fans can expect from Alexi in season two? Yeah, you know, I'm one of the people who think that his first season was better than his statistics suggested.

I thought he, you know, for a kid who he came out, his draft was backed up because of COVID. he didn't have a preseason. You know, it was a really hard time for a number one overall pick with all those expectations to make that jump. And I think he struggled with it a little bit. But I also think that as the season went on, his season got really good. And he's a guy who looked to me by the end of the season,

although he was 19 or whatever, I think he was 19 at the end of the season, he looked like an NHL player. And now I think he looks, like an NHL top six player. He's playing on the top line at the moment with Zabanajad. But if he ends up playing with Panera, and that's okay too. That won't hurt him. But I think he's going to end up playing with Zabanajad. And he just looks like he's worked on his skating. He looks a little step quicker. He looks a little bit bigger. He's leaner, but more muscular, if that makes

sense. And I think it does. He's lost, he said he's lost weight, but he looks thicker. And I think he's ready to do something special. He had a really cool game the other night. I don't know if anybody saw the preseason game in Boston, but the Rangers didn't have the puck in overtime at all. They never touched it in overtime until the goalie, Linus Omar coughed it up and put it on left for any of a second in one motion. He won the game. It was the only time they had the puck for like a quarter of a second, and he scored the winning goal. So I do. I expect, I expect him to be a really good player this year. And I think he's a step ahead of a guy like Kako who's going into his third year. I think he's ready to have that breakout season, if you can

even call it that after having half the season under his belt. I think, I think he's really going to be a top NHL. Not a superstar, certainly not yet, but a really top, top line. NHL player. Well, listen, Rick, I appreciate you dropping by. This was a lot of fun because, look, the Rangers are absolutely going to be one of the most intriguing teams, and it's nice to kind of get a preseason scouting report on them from you. So thanks so much for dropping by the Athletic Hockey Show. Thanks for having me, guys. Always enjoy it. All right, Haley, like I said, we're bouncing around the NHL this week on the Athletic Hockey Show, looking at the biggest storylines. Rick just joined us, chatting about New York Rangers.

Another original 16 that I think is super interesting is the Toronto Maple Leafs. And that's where we bring in our friend, and I guess technically Haley, our boss. So we've got to be careful about how we navigate this. It's James Myrtle. Welcome to the show. James Myrtle, how are you? I'm excellent. How are you guys doing?

Very good. I'm a little uneasy. Haley's worried this is going to morph into a performance review. I don't do your performance reviews. Man, he's that high up. He's so high up on the chain. He doesn't even deal with people like us. Now I'm even more nervous.

Imagine having to host a show every week with Craig Custins now that he's the boss man. Gentile, better be careful. Yeah, exactly. He's going to get himself in hot water, a bad podcast episode. Craig's like the least intimidating boss in a good way that has ever existed. Yeah. You're the scary one. Oh, good.

Hey, listen, we want to get you on, James, just to chat about the Toronto Maple Leafs coming into this season. Let me start with this, because I think a lot of our listeners have probably, if they've got Amazon Prime, have probably watched a little bit of the All or Nothing series. And I'm just curious, without giving away too many spoilers for those people that haven't watched any,

did anything surprise you, James, after watching that? Because you covered that team last year. Did anything from the Leafs All or Nothing Amazon TV special, surprised James Myrtle. I would say there were a few things I learned, like getting to see in the actual team meetings with like the leadership group of the players, getting to see inside the meetings with Sheldon Keefe and Kyle Dubas,

we learned a little bit. I don't know if surprised is the right word, but there was at least some things I didn't know. Just the way that the way that Sheldon Keith acts behind closed doors was a little bit different. Well, it was quite a bit different than what we see on camera and when the media is talking to him. But it was a little bit different than I anticipated.

There was a lot more swearing, but there was a lot more, you know, he was pretty, he was very blunt and in some cases very kind of pointed with his criticism, even when it was of Matthews and Marner in the playoffs. Or, you know, it just showed, you know, a lot of people in Toronto talk about Sheldon Keefe as this kind of like the new version of like the player friendly coach. and I think that there's some truth to that, but it also showed that he's not just this softy that is letting the players do what they want. Like there was, he was pretty abrasive at times when it called for it. And I think that justified given what was happening.

And, you know, really in the season he tried to really kind of give his players a shake and say, we're not, we're winning too easy. We're not, you know, we're not scoring goals from the difficult areas in the ice

and we're not going to be able to do that forever. And it was really foreshadowing to what happened in the playoffs when they had a hard time scoring. And it didn't seem like reading the body language and like the facial expressions of the Leafs players. It didn't seem like they really heeded the message appropriately. So I would say that's the biggest thing. It's just the perception of Sheldon Keefe is different after watching the series. I think I saw in the piece that you wrote that people were kind of saying like Sheldon Keefe is the star of the show. And you're going to learn a lot and see a lot from Sheldon.

when you watch this. And I haven't watched the whole thing yet. I've only seen bits and pieces, but I saw a couple of his speeches and it seems like he was kind of the the main character of that one. Yeah. And I think with good reason, just because he really kind of put himself out there.

It wasn't, you know, he was on the camera the most because he was the one that was doing all the speeches in your mission. And then you're going into the meetings and he's in the meetings. And then they're at practice and he's going up to players at practice. and being really harshly critical in some cases. And it was interesting because, you know,

Shelton Keefe has a pretty relatively low profile for someone who's the Leafs coach. Like we've had Ron Wilson, Randy Carlyle, Mike Babcock, all guys that, you know, in the case of Wilson and Carlisle played in the NHL, played for the Leafs, huge profile. Mike Babcock obviously has a huge profile, you know, coaching team Canada and all that. Sheldon Keefe has less of a resume, I guess. And this show was really showing kind of his bona fides, I think, as a big personality in the hockey world. And I think that's only going to grow the longer that he's around. Do you think, you know, obviously the timing being what it is, but the Leaves re-signing Sheldon to an extension to continue coaching?

Do you think we saw a little bit about why they made that decision in that show? and I guess just why now and why extend Sheldon? Yeah, they actually did extend him in the summer, but it didn't come out until last week. So that was a decision that they made. But yeah, I think we are seeing why because for one, he did a pretty good job, you know, other than there's some mistakes that were made by the head coaching staff in the last couple of games of the playoffs, which obviously are important. There were a lot of things that Sheldon Keefe did right.

He obviously has the respect of the team. But the other thing that you could see is just the relationship between Kyle Dubus and Sheldon Keefe and how close it is. And at one point in the documentary, Kyle Dubas says, I talk to Sheldon more than anyone else in my life. And they really have that kind of almost like a familial relationship. I don't know if I'd call them brothers, but like they seem like incredibly close after all the time they spent together in the O HL, the HL, and now the NHL.

And that kind of camaraderie and that bond, that speaks to Kyle Dubus wanting to give him that extension and believing in Sheldon Keefe. I have a hard time seeing it getting to the point where those two are separated unless it's, you know, it just feels like one of those relationships where if Sheldon Keefe's going to go, the GM's probably going to go too, I think. Like they really seem like a package deal. And the documentary series showed why. You know, I think when you look at the Leafs, James, I think everyone sees arguably the most underachieving team in the league, right? Five straight years. Washington in 2017, a couple times bound. by Boston, Columbus in the bubble, the Habs, the meltdown of the 3-1.

I think a lot of people are wondering, like, who's on the hottest seat right now from a media fan perspective? So externally, I feel like that answer is Mitch Marner. I feel like Mitch Marner is the guy who's taking the most heat. Am I right on that? Is that the player who is probably under the microscope the most? Or is it Matthews, Tavares, you know, somebody else? facing the heat this season. No, I mean, if you're talking media and fans, yeah, it's Mitch

Barner for sure. I mean, he didn't have a very good playoff. He had a huge regular season. You know, he's on pace for 94 points or whatever. I think he was third in NHL scoring. But it's been a number of disappointing post seasons in a row for Mitch Marner. And he just looked out of sorts. And the documentary hit that home because, you know, the GM has a meeting before game seven and basically saying, like, are you okay? And like, we need you to be okay to be to be who you're going to be. And, you know, there's concern in the organization about Mitch Marner. There's concern about where his, you know, his mindset's at after how difficult, you know, the aftermath of all of that's been. And ever since he signed that contract,

and it was an ugly negotiation process between Marner's camp and the Leafs, and it stretched until through the first day of training camp, he ended up getting a much bigger number than other comparable players around the league. And, you know, in a market like Toronto, when they don't have success. Yeah, you know, like the arrows start coming out and mostly, mostly for Marner because, you know, like Tavares was hurt in the playoffs. You can, you're not going to blame him. You're not going to get the, you're not going to go after him. Hyman's gone. Anderson's gone. Nealander played really well. Marner seems to be the target for sure. What are the stakes for the Leafs this year? Ian already mentioned just, you know, the, the underachievement and the

playoff disappointments. What are the stakes like heading into the regular season? Like is this a year where it doesn't matter what they do? They're going to be judged by what happens in the postseason. Yeah. I mean, honest, this is such a weird year to try and write about the team because like,

like the team's not that different from last year. You know, like Hyman and Anderson are gone, but the core is the same. GM's the same. The coach is the same. They've added a bunch of forwards that are different. But it's basically the same roster and they're running it back again.

and they're saying it's going to be different this time. It's difficult to write about this team because it really doesn't matter. It doesn't matter until the playoffs. So we've got this huge, it's basically like having like a six-month preseason for this team. Because no one really, the fan base doesn't care. They need to prove it when it counts. And that's what it's going to be all about. I mean, what are the stakes?

I think it's going to depend how the year plays out. who would be in trouble if they fail again. It's too early for me to say, you know, the coach is in trouble, the GM's in trouble, the star players in trouble. It's really going to depend the way that this season plays out, but somebody's going to be in trouble if they lose in the first round again.

Well, listen, James, I appreciate you dropping by. Just remember this conversation when you are involved maybe in our performance reviews or things of that nature down the road. This was a lot of fun. Thanks for dropping by. And I know, like you said, It's going to be a weird year cover the Maple East because it feels like everything's just a dress rehearsal for April and May.

But we look forward to your coverage all season long. Yep. Thanks, guys. All right. So again, a reminder for the rest of the week on the athletic hockey show, we're just bouncing around with some of the biggest storylines. So every show you'll hear from a couple of different beatwriters from around the league. Another thing we're going to be pushing on the athletic hockey show this week, Haley, leading into the start of the regular season, it is our athletic hockey. pool brought to you and powered by our friends at office pools.com.

We got some, look, and for the listeners to this show, if you want to go head-to-head against me and Haley, Down Goes Brown, Greg Kustens, and all the people that are involved in this podcast, you're going to click on the link. So in the episode description here, the description of this episode, wherever you get your podcast, you're going to get the link to the office pool's athletic hockey pool. Click on that. You can join us. we're all going to go head to head.

And I set up my team last week, Haley, and I 100% did draft one box. I got to go with a pun name here. Okay? So I went to the one, my team is called, the name of my fantasy hockey team in this athletic hockey pool

is my team is better than yours. I had to take Brock Basser. My team is better than yours. Okay, just before I completely judge, I need to see who else was in in that box. Like, who did you pass on specifically to have that name, Ian? Just, I would rather.

And literally, I put my team name in and within half an hour, I texted this to Sean McIndoo, down goes brown. Within half an hour, Brock Besser went on the injured reserve list. Like he had some sort of weird thing happened to him. I'm like, well, it begins. Yeah, I was in preseason. I give him a bad, bad pun name. And all of a sudden, my team is better than yours is the,

the lead guy is out. Oh, goodness. Okay, so that was in the USA box with Sean Couturee, David Perron, Jason Robertson, Brian Rust and Blake Wheeler. So you know what? I did, it's a good pick. I did think about going with Rust as a weapon. I did think about Rust as a weapon. Oh, that would have been good as like an auto because you're in Ottawa. I'm Ottawa. People dock. Rest is a weapon. Rust is a weapon. Maybe. That would have been really funny too. Hopefully Brock Buster. comes back sooner rather than later. It's a, it's a good name. I'll give you that. I'm going to need to, I need you to help me name my, my team that I haven't finished picking yet, because I'm terrible at decisions. And I'm a deadline driven creature. So the office pool's entry cutoff is October 12th.

And so it's October 4th. So I'll like slowly, slowly do this until it's like the last minute. and I'm like scribbling out the worst possible team ever because I panicked and left it to the last minutes. Now the good news is though, you can go back between now and the deadline, even if you've picked your team for our listeners, if there's a significant injury or something happens and you want to make a change, you can.

You can go back and alter your team right up until the deadline. So you can do that. So make sure. Did you pick McDavid or McKinnon? I went with McDavid. I feel like most people are going to go. And that's the one bar. box in that pool, it's a two-person box.

Why did MacCandu get the best ones? I know. They named it after Down Goes Brown, Sean McAdo. And we said, is it because of the MC, like the McDavid, McKinnon, McIndoo? Is that? Maybe why? Maybe. I don't know. Or because there's just nobody like him. But I feel like McDavid almost should have been taken out of the pool altogether. Just take about, you know what they used to do back in the day? I didn't do hockey pools when I was a kid.

kid. But did you know, like, this is what I, these are the rumors from when I was a kid, okay? In the 80s, they used to actually split up

Wayne Gretzky's goals and assists. Like, so in a pool, you could take, like, I'll take Wayne Gretzky's assists. Because there's one year, I think it was 1985,

86. Wayne Gretzky had 163 assists and like 52 goals. So you had 215 points. Okay, if I'm off by a couple of numbers, I'm off. But he had 163 assists.

If he scored zero goals at year, Haley, he still would have led the league in scoring. He had more assists than anybody had points. So that's how they used to these to split it up. Yeah. That's crazy. I, yeah, I don't, I wasn't playing fantasy hockey when that was happening.

But it's, uh, yeah, I don't know. If you take up McDavid, if you take out McDavid, I don't know. I just think it adds some fun. Like I'd be curious to hear from people who choose Nate McKinnon over Connor McDavid. I'm a huge Nate McKinnon fan. I think he's a great hockey player.

But it'll be interesting to see who chooses Nate over Connor when you just have to pick one between the two, especially, you know, when it's being scored by goals, assist, power play goals and all that stuff. So just scrolling through some of these here. Again, I haven't fully picked my team, but I think the options and my little box are great. It's taking all of my power not to just choose Sidney Crosby, even though he's hurt and he's going to probably miss the first week or so of the season, a couple weeks. Sydney Crosby, Alex DeBrinquit, J.T. Miller, Miko Ranton, Mark Stone, Andre Svetichikov, taking all my power and not just be like, give me Sidney Crosby.

But I don't think that'd be smart and I want to win. Exactly. So look, we're going to have some fun with this. Click on the episode, the link in our episode description. You can go ahead to head against us. And we got some great prizes. Just by joining our pool, you're automatically entered to win. You get a choice of a PS5 or an Xbox.

We got signed jerseys for the big winners at the end of the year. Monthly winners can get an signed autograph or an autographed to NHL puck. So check it out. We're going to go head to head and have a lot of fun with our listeners. All right, Haley. As always, though, we're going to wrap up this Monday episode of the Athletic Hockey Show with a little multiple choice madness. Got three questions for us to tackle.

Let me start with this one. Sunday night football, we watched Tom Brady go back to Foxborough. It was one of the most anticipated returns that we've seen in a long time. I think LeBron going back to Cleveland was probably on that level for the very first time. like we've seen some anticipated things in sports. My question is, after watching Brady go back to New England, Haley, what's the most anticipated return for an NHL player to his old city this season? Is it A, Joe Thornton to San Jose, B, Mark Giordano to Calgary,

C, Duncan Keith goes back to Chicago, or D. Zach Parisi, back to Minnesota. What should be the most anticipated return for an NHL player. I know it probably sounds biased, but I've got to go with Gio. I think the Joe Thornton one will be great because he didn't get to return last year. And so there's been this like longer period of time where San Jose fans have been like waiting to see him again. And maybe, you know, Joe Thornton's been waiting to go back there. And, um, but I, I feel like I've got to go Gio. Um, he played his whole career in Calgary. Um, you know, he's had such a great story. I think Gio has probably one of the best. bet on yourself stories, guy who never got drafted until Seattle. He got sent to the KHL,

came back, ended up becoming the captain of the team for eight seasons, Captain the Calgary Flames, Face of the franchise, Norris winning D, and he gets taken in Seattle expansion. And, you know, he's going to be back December 23rd. So I've got to say Mark Giordano's return to Calgary is going to be hugely significant for Flames fans and for Mark and his family specifically too. You know what? I think it's going to be

Duncan Keith to Chicago. And I agree with you. Thornton didn't get a chance to go back to San Jose last year because of the pandemic. He just played in Toronto. I feel like Zach Preezy and Ryan Suter are like the like they're almost split in half, right? It's always Preezy Souter, Preezy Souter.

But Duncan Keith, like to me, Haley, three Stanley Cups, Norris Trophy, you know, all the memories. And when you think about it, he was the part of the core. Like when you think of that Black Hawk's dynasty, you think of Patrick Kane, Jonathan Taves, Duncan Keith. Maybe to some extent see Brooke and Hosa, but those three guys that one of them left and will come back,

to me that's going to be the biggest one. So I think Duncan Keith going back to Chicago, because he's got multiple championships there, I think that might be the most intriguing return in this season. Question two, Haley, multiple choice madness. we're starting to see some initial rosters unveiled for the upcoming Olympic Games. So every hockey federation has to submit a list of, I believe it's three players that are on the initial roster. And the reason why they do this is just simply for marketing perspectives, right?

So that, you know, the IOC and the federations can start promoting the Olympic Games. Now, Team Canada has decided to unveil its first three names on the roster. Sidney Crosby, Connor McDavid, Alex Petrangelo. So here's my question. Haley, were you surprised that Alex Petrangelo was one of the first three players named to the Olympic team joining Crosby and McDavid. Your options are A, yeah, I'm surprised. They should have gone with a guy like Nate McKinnon or Kerry Price instead of him or B.

Nope, Patrangelo is an absolute lock to play on Team Canada, so it makes sense why he's there. Yeah, I think I was surprised. you know, especially when you when you look at the guys that they would have had to say, like, yeah, this is our other lock. Like, you know, get ready for the Crosby McKinnon McDavid show. But I also think, you know, there's no question that McKinnon's going to be there. And maybe they were trying to say, like, you know, here's our two star forwards and here's, like, going to be one of the pillars of our blue line kind of thing. Like maybe they wanted to add a defender in there.

But you also could have added in a goalie and someone like Carrie Price. But I guess Kerry Price is still technically on IR. So maybe they're waiting to see what's going on there. But yeah, I was surprised. I think Petterangelo is going to be a lock. I mean, he's still, like I think he's going to be, obviously he is now. But I, you know, he's not somebody that most people would think would be left off the roster. But yeah, if this is like a marketing decision, are people going to see Alex Petrangelo and be like,

hell yeah, I'm going to go running by a jersey. Are they going to see Nathan McKinnon and be like, oh, hell yeah, I'm going to go and buy this jersey. So I don't know. It's shocking, but I also don't think in the grand scheme of things, it makes zero change or difference on who we can expect to be on Team Canada's roster. It's just maybe they were just trying to get a blue liner in there or something. Yeah, it's weird.

You know, I'm going to say I was surprised to it. I think if you ask hockey fans, okay, three players are going to be unveiled for Canada's roster. Who are they going to be? Everyone would have said Crosby-McDavid. No one's questioning that. I feel like most people would have said McKinnon next. I guess my point is I feel like Petrangelo would have been like the 12th, the 13th player

that fans picked. I'm not saying he has a lock there. I just think when you're talking about marketability and visibility, I was surprised they did that, but I think Patrangelo is a wonderful defenseman and he's a lot. Even say Patrice Bergeron or something, you know? Yeah. One of the other Halifax guys. I don't know.

Marchand. It's a good thing we're on a podcast because we're on TV. I'm waving my hands around like a, one of those noodle guys in the parking lot. Yeah. Okay. One last question. Do the Halifax line.

Yeah. All three of them from Halifax. Okay. I got to ask you last question. We're going to go back to the fantasy hockey world again here, Haley. And I'm going to give you the choice of, and this is something I'm sure a lot of hockey fans will be debating as they have their

hockey pools. Hey, listen, five or six years ago, these guys might have gone in the first round of any hockey draft because they were Norris, they've all kind of been Norris caliber, Norris trophy winning defensemen. They've been big point guys in the past as well. Which of these veteran defensemen, Haley,

would you take first overall, or first out of these veteran defensemen if you were drafting your fantasy team? Is it A, Eric Carlson, B, Brent Burns, C, Drew Doughty, D. Mark Giordano. They're all kind of on the West Coast. now.

They're all, you know, Seattle, San Jose, L.A. You can pick one of these guys first as a veteran D on your fantasy team. Who are you going with? Ooh. Why don't you ever go first? I can go. I don't know why, but, yeah, you go.

Let me think for a second. But see, now I'm not going to use the pun factor here, but I think I would go Drew Doughty. And I think that Doughty, I feel like he kind of has the most, what's a way of putting this? Like tread left on the tire, so to speak. Like he's got the most, and he seems like the type of guy

that just wants to come back and stick it to everybody and he's super motivated. Not that the other guys aren't motivated, but just I think in terms of where I can see, I almost feel like Carlson and Burns are going to split the touches. To some extent, like you, like,

and Giordano, I don't know what to expect out of the cracking. He's probably going to be their, their top pairing guy and he's probably going to play a huge role. But I think I would take Drew Doughty in terms of getting me some points in the fantasy world, I would go with Doughty. Yeah. I hate that we agree.

But I was going to go with Drew Doughty too. And I think if you just look at like the teams that these guys are on too, I don't know. I don't think the Kings are quite out of the basement yet. I don't think they're going to turn the corner that instantly. But I do think the Kings like made some really good moves and acquisitions this offseason. You know, if Quentin Bifield takes a nice step. He's in the NHL full time this year. You know, you added some, some good pieces in the off season in L.A.

And, you know, it was a lot of it, you know, Drew Doughty was very, very clear at locker cleanout last season, which felt like it was only a month ago. But, you know, just saying, like, I'm not happy with the direction of this team. And, like, I'm not, I don't want to just keep rebuilding and being terrible. Like, we need to do something. And the Kings went out and did stuff. And I think the Kings will be better. And I think Drew Doughty is still an important piece of that.

team and like you know you can say we can have the debate of how good or bad he is if he's going to be on team candid or not but he is super motivated and I think he out of all those D that were listed I think he had the most goals and points so if we're talking fantasy and we just want those those fantasy points and probably going to go with drew doughty and he's drew specifically usually plays around the most minutes in the league or at least he used to I haven't looked in that before but um drew was typically at the top in terms of average time on ice per season. So if we're talking fantasy, I'd go with Drew Doughty because the sharks are just not going to be good next year.

They're a mess. Listen, when we come back next week, by the way, you and I are going to shift shows with the Americans next week. Because Custin's Gentilly, it's not a holiday for them on Monday. So you and I think are going to come back and we're going to do the Tuesday edition of the athletic hockey show next week. And by that time, Haley, I expect you to have A, selected your entire fantasy hockey team and B, more importantly, come up with a pretty good pun name that the listeners are going to appreciate. That's your homework. I don't like giving out homework on the show, but that's your homework for one week from that.

I'll, yeah, I'll get it done. We've got eight days till the 12th, right? I can do it. I just know I'm going to get a slack message from you on the 12th morning. I forgot. Haven't picked your team and you need a pun. Can you actually name my name and pass it off that I did it? Yeah, I will for sure because whatever I do, you're going to just roll your eyes at.

I don't know. I'm not, I'm not a, I don't have, my sense of humor is not in puns. I'm not a punny person. My sense of humor is the dry, sarcastic and kind of rude varietal. It's like, is Haley really mean or is she just joking? I'm not sure. And I'm like, that's part of the fun. I'm like, I'm like, Canopy both?

Yeah, exactly. It's a mix of both. I really enjoy watching things like curb your enthusiasm. So maybe that's where my really dry and just kind of mean sense of humor comes from. Cynical. Yeah. Cynical old Larry David. That's me.

Yeah, that's you. Trapped in the body of a Calgary Flames beat reporter in her 20s. You are Larry David. It's me. Okay. We're going to leave it there. We're going to leave it there. And again, you got some homework.

And some homework, too, for our listeners. Again, when you check out the description of this episode, you're going to get a link. You can join our fantasy hockey pole. We'd love to go head to head with you. And thanks for listening to this edition of the Athletic Hockey Show. And while you're checking out that description of the episode, you can leave us a rating review.

We appreciate that. We want to remind you, you can subscribe to the Athletic Audio Plus on Apple Podcast. Get all of the bonus content from our podcast. our entire network and start with a 30-day free trial, and then it's just 99 cents a month after that as well. Annual subscriptions to the Athletic, they're 50% off when you visit theathletic.com slash hockey show.