The Athletic Hockey Show - Ron Francis's Seattle Kraken historic first playoff win, Chris Kreider makes playoff history for New York Rangers, and the Maple Leafs history of playoff duds continues

Episode Date: April 19, 2023

On the Wednesday roundtable, Rob Pizzo, Michael Russo and Jesse Granger welcome Seattle Kraken General Manager and Hockey Hall of Famer Ron Francis. They discuss the franchises first playoff appearance, super rookie Matty Beniers, the job Dave Hakstol has done behind the bench and the Kraken's underrated team ahead of their playoff debut win over the Colorado Avalanche.Plus the guys stick tap Chris Kreider and Adam Fox leading New York to a decisive win over New Jersey, Connor Hellebuyck and a gutsy Morgan Barron leading the Jets to a game one win over Vegas, and the Maple Leafs looking like they had never played a playoff game before against the always solid Tampa Bay Lightning.Subscribe to The Athletic Hockey Show on YouTube: http://youtube.com/@theathletichockeyshowGet a 1-year subscription to The Athletic for just $1 a month when you visit http://theathletic.com/hockeyshowUpgrade your closet with Rhone and use code NHLSHOW to save 20% at https://www.rhone.com/nhlshowLinkedIn Jobs helps you find the qualified candidates you want to talk to, faster. Post your job for free at http://linkedin.com/nhlshow Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the Athletic Hockey Show. What's going on, everybody? Welcome to the Athletic Hockey Show, the Wednesday Roundtable Edition. Also the first playoff edition of the Athletic Hockey Show, Wednesday Roundtable Edition. I had to just throw that in there, boys, because I keep hearing that Christmas is the most wonderful time of the year for me. This is the most wonderful time of the year. I am Rob Pizzo from CBC Sports, joined as always by Jesse Granger, who's in Vegas. and Mike Russo in Dallas.

How are we, boys? Jesse. Pretty good. I just took a short little nap after the playoff game last night. Ready to record here. I think I just got back from the arena a couple hours ago. But yeah, I'm ready. Luckily, playoff hockey is better than coffee. Yeah, that's how we felt the other night.

The Wild played a double overtime game. We left the arena at probably like 3.3.30 in the morning. And it was up by 7, Joe Smith and me. And we are praying that that does not. happen again tonight because we have 6am flight home tomorrow. Like if it happens again tonight, like the other night, we would have to literally come back to our hotel, grab our bags and go to the airport. You know, it's funny. We always just assume we're not going to get a lot of sleep during this time. And I used to hate before I got married people who used to say, well, wait till

you have kids, wait till you have kids. I am now learning with two little children. I have a four-year-old and a one-year-old that they don't care that the game went into double over time last night. They're going to come bursting in your room no matter what. So this is a whole new level of playoffs for me, but I don't care. I absolutely love it. We've got two days of playoff hockey already in the books, and we've got so much to talk about because day one had a couple OT games, as I mentioned. You had superstars finding the back of the net.

Day two, all about the road teams. Lower seed wins each and every game on the road in game number one. In fact, six of the eight series had the road team winning game one. And of course, we have four more tonight. So, guys, we did this last year during the show. We're going to do it this year. We're going to hit every single series. Everything that happened last night, everything that happens tonight, and get your opinions

because I feel like every single series has some sort of storyline. Let's start with the Leafs. I can't believe what I watched last night in game one against the Tampa Bay Lightning, a team they've known they were going to be playing since literally last year, since December it was pretty much locked in. They were going to take on the Tampa Bay Lightning. Blinked and suddenly the lightning are up 3-0. The fans were booing after 20 minutes.

They fought back to make it 3-2 and then Tampa responds to three unanswered goals without the Leafs registering a shot. I can't believe how the Leafs looked early on in this game. They looked nervous. They were coughing up Pucks. They were soft. They were everything bad. I didn't have anything good to say about this Leafs after the first 20 minutes.

and the lightning look like the team that has been awesome over the last five years. We'll get to the finer points like certain hits and stuff and disallowed goals in a minute. But guys, your initial thoughts on what you saw from the buds yesterday. Russo will start with you. Yeah, I mean, obviously not a good start to them. But, you know, maybe that's a good sign because it does seem like sometimes in their playoff losses, they start really, really well and then flame out. And maybe this will be the complete opposite in the rebound.

you know, it was, it was really shocking. And I do think that it was kind of almost laughable because of the hype around the Leafs said that everybody was not only picking the Leafs, but to just walk over the lightning in the series, but we're acting like, like, I mean, every article that we've had in the Athletic, every unnamed GM and executive and everything like that, it was almost like, why should the Lightning show up? And then almost on a lightning step foot on that ice surface and you realize why they've been to the Stanley Cup final three years in a row.

why they've won a couple cups. So, you know, they, they go for the dagger. They know how to win. And, you know, it was interesting when they cut it to 3-2 last night, they shot to the GM's booth and Dubas gives a little tap on the shoulder to Jason Spetzel with all like, we're back. And next year you know, you blink and and the game is over again. So, you know, I think they have what it takes to rebound. But man, do they have to get better goaltending, Jesse? Yeah, to go along with what Mike said and tap my, pat myself on the back a little bit here like Kyle Dubus did. I was the only person to pick the lightning in game one. So we do our athletic picks.

And I'm the defending champion, by the way, of last year's playoffs. And I could not believe it. I was the only one to pick Tampa. I was like, wow, you guys are going to give me a one-nothing lead right off the bat. So yes, the lightning have the better goaltending. And you know where I'm going with this. Top goalies in the playoffs in a goal. Saves Above Expected this season.

Linus Olmark, Ilya Serochen, Connor Hellebuck, Igor Shisterkin, Andre Vasilevsky, Philip Gustafson. Only one of those goalies has lost a playoff game so far, and that's Ilya Serocha, and the Islanders weren't able to pull it out. But, Rob, you mentioned the road teams are winning. The road teams have had the goalie advantage in just about every game in these playoffs. You look, and I'm not saying that that's the only reason the lightning one, because Vasilevsky did not have to be spectacular.

The lightning were the better team. But man, what a what a stinker for Samsonov and the Leafs are already wondering if they should put wall in. I've seen on social media. That may just be Toronto Twitter doing what Toronto Twitter does, but not a good start. If you're wondering who you're going to play in net after one playoff game, you've got to win a lot of games to win the Stanley Cup. If you're questioning the goal-tending decision after one, it's definitely not a good sign. Look, anywhere else in the league, perhaps, all putting Joseph

Wall in the third period does is say, okay, Sheldon Keith is thinking, this game is done, let's rest them up. If we're going to do, if we're going to have a long run, he's going to play a lot of hockey. So let's give anywhere else. But in Toronto, it's all of a sudden, are we going to see Wall in game two? And Sheldon Keith was asked about that. He's like, too early to start bringing up any of that. That's a matter of this game is done. Why am I going to keep my only healthy, quote, unquote, starter between the pipes? There was a lot last night.

Victor had been leaving the game, I think, is so huge in that it's a completely different series if he has any sort of serious injury. And I feel like maybe he does it because we're not hearing much. We're recording this obviously in the morning. But if he's gone, this series just turns on its head. doesn't it? Rousseau. Yeah, I mean, and they lost Chernac last night. So now, you know, they were down to 4D, two rook, three rookies, right?

Two rookies. And I think it is. It does change the complexion of the series that both those really good defensemen are out. And obviously, headman is world class. You know, there is, you know, they're going to need probably to do a little bit of reevaluation today on both those players. You know, the churnack one is obviously, you know, worrisome just because we know it's a head injury. And if he's in concussion protocol, I don't see him playing a game or two at a minimum. And the headman won just because

silence sometimes is deafening, I think is a huge, huge concern. And, you know, you hate to say it like that, but could get the Leafs right back in the series if they get to play six more games against the Lightning without those two. Yeah, it's huge. I think mainly because the position they play, you look at this Lightning team and how stacked they've been, right? They're two Stanley Cup finals in a row. Two Stanley Cup finals in a row. Every year, it feels like they're, they've had to chip away at that roster a little bit because of the salary cap. And they just get a little bit worse, a little bit worse. And they lose Ryan McDonough.

And all year, I thought that was the biggest difference in this team, not only because of how good McDonough was, but because it forced Victor Headman to play those big defensive minutes that normally McDonough would handle. And now all of a sudden, your biggest offensive weapon is being asked to do more. And he just wasn't, he didn't have the big offensive numbers. It's why he wasn't in the Norris conversation this year because he had to take on those minutes. Now all of a sudden, if you're without him and Chernak, this team, I thought the weakness was already the blue line, was already the blue line in comparison to the stacked ones they had before. So you take those two out. You're playing against the least team that, yes, they struggled. But man, do they have got a lot of offensive firepower.

I think it would be a, like, I picked Tampa in game one. I think if Victor Hedman doesn't play another game in this series, the Lightning are in big, big trouble. Real quick, we're talking about Chernick right now. The bunting hit is what put him out of the game. As I said, as of this recording, we don't know if he's been suspended yet. He will have a hearing. Any guesses on this guys before we move on to the next series? Jesse, does he get it?

Does he get a game? Yeah, I hate guessing how many games, but it definitely seems suspension-worthy. It was an illegal hit and it knocked the guy out of the game. So, yeah, probably. And they do usually have a. calculation, you know, in the playoffs where, yeah, and so I think he gets a game, probably not more than that. But it was, it was a dirty hit. I mean, this was, you know, he, to me, it looked like he intentionally launched himself right into the guy's head, you know,

from inches away. So he knew where he was going. What I was shocked at is him going crazy in the press in the penalty box during the, during the major review, screaming at West McCauley, which is never going to do you good. And I don't know. what he could have been arguing about. I mean, you know, that was, that was clear as day.

Yeah, it was crazy. It was terrible timing, too. The leaves had gotten themselves back in the game. It was four to, the crowd was back in if you were going to do that. It really was. It was just a stupid penalty.

Anyways, let's move on guys. Real quick on, on bunting, you know, they were going after him. So I know he was frustrated. You could see it,

right? He got hit in the corner. And I think that was definitely a retaliatory play. And I just think that bunting, we've talked about it on the show a bunch of times. he's a bad reputation with the officials. I mean, it's that simple. And so they keep an eye on him.

They don't give him the benefit of the doubt when he goes down because he's earned such a reputation as an embellisher. And, you know, that one, I think they got the call right. Moving on. Game one of the Hudson River rivalry was, well, pretty one-sided. Rangers took a 4-0 lead, and that was pretty much it. Crieder with a couple of goals. Now it's more playoff goals than any Ranger in history, which I thought was,

given how long the Rangers have been playing this game. He passed Rod Gilbert also moved into first passing Adam Graves on the all-time power play goals list for the New York Rangers, which is, again, pretty crazy. But I'm not going to lie in this one, I had the devils in game one. So I was very wrong. I don't know what Jesse had, but I did not expect a lopsided victory like this. Rousseau, we'll start with you on this one.

Yeah, I think that, you know, That first playoff, obviously there's players on the Devils have been in the postseason before, but there's a lot of young kids there. And when you haven't done it, I think it takes a while, no matter how talented you are, how skilled you are, you know, how much experience you think you have until you get, and the bright lights come on in a postseason game where things are ratcheted up to an unbelievable degree. I think that, you know, it's a big learning lesson. So I wasn't shocked that they got odd.

in game one, and now it'll be interesting to how they respond. I actually picked this as much as I like the Devils to be a pretty quick series for the Rangers because of the very reasons that it laid out. Pete DeBore said yesterday, Jesse's old buddy, he had a great analogy about what playoff hockey is like to regular season. He basically said it's like, and you know, like almost little league, I think he called it, but like peewee football at a youth level and then bringing it up to NFL level at the offensive line spot, you know, and it's and it's really, I mean, it's, it's, Until you watch that bright light go on between, you never understand the difference between the regular season and the postseason.

And I think guys like Jack Hughes and he sure and those guys probably realize that in game one. Yeah, I could not agree more with everything Russo just said. I also picked the Rangers 2 and 0. All right. We won't talk about my Vegas and Colorado picks. We'll just ignore those. Ignore those. Yeah, yeah.

But, and honestly, I picked the Rangers for those exact reasons. I think the Rangers learned a lot last year. They had some young players that hadn't been through that. That deep run that they made last year, I thought was super valuable for this team. And now the devils have to go through it. I expect them to eventually the light to turn on, the switch to flip. They're so talented. This is going to be a long series, I think.

But I think early on at least the Rangers have a big advantage just in terms of their young players have been here. They've done it. They have veterans, too. That's the other thing. Like, you bring in Kane and Teresenko and, yeah, they're great goal scores, but more than anything, they've won Stanley Cups. They, like, those guys bring a lot of experience into the room, too. I just think the, the, the Rangers were more prepared for a game one.

And Igor Shisterkin back there. It's a lot easier to play with confidence when you, when you, you believe you've got the best goal in the world behind you. So just a really good start for the Rangers. I think the devils absolutely have the talent to make this a really long. six or seven game series, but just they just weren't ready for game one. I think everything you guys both just really alluded to is something that gets forgotten with fans when a team is rebuilding.

People think they hear the word rebuild and they think about draft picks. They think about young players. But you have to go through the playoffs and not necessarily win to learn how to win. We've seen the greatest players in the history of the game do that. Wayne Gratzky went to the Stanley Cup finals and lost to the Islanders before winning four in the next five years. Sidney Crosby went to the Stanley Cup finals, lost to Detroit. Who do they beat in the Stanley Cup final the next year?

Detroit. You have to go through it because like Jesse said, excuse me, Russo said, it's not the same sport. It really is not. Playoffs and the regular season, it's like a completely different sport. And you see it. You just have to watch five minutes of playoff hockey and say, that's not what I just watch 82 games of.

And that's what makes it so great. So, yeah, I still have faith that this devil's team is going to make it at least a series. But man, did the Rangers ever look like they were on a completely different level last night? And I know Russo, you love when I bring out the crazy stats. So I got one from this one. Adam Fox four assists last night. Just the second defenseman ever to have two four assist games on his playoff resume. And the other guy, not sure if you've heard of him, Paul Coffey.

So puts himself in some pretty elite category there. Jesse, you know, I'm going to start with you on this one. One of your O for two picks, Winnipeg, 5-1 winners over the Golden Knights. Vegas won the division, first in the West, beat the Jets in all three meetings this year. That didn't mean shit last night. Let's start with you on this one. Just what happened? What an impressive performance by the Winnipeg Jets.

Like, they looked awesome last night. If you would have told me, Winnipeg is going to win game one, I honestly wouldn't have been that surprise, but I would have said Connor Hellebuck stole that game. And that wasn't the case at all. I wrote after the game last night. The biggest concern for the Golden Knights is not that they lost. It's that they lost. And the biggest factor in this series for the Jets did pretty much nothing. Connor Hellebuck faced 17 total shots, two in the third period.

When the Golden Knights were pushing, trying to get a comeback, they managed two shots on goal. Hellebuck was chilling back there. They are going to have to be a lot better if they're going to beat this team. And it was, I was just super impressed with the Jets defensemen and the way they broke the puck out. Vegas beat this team three times in a row in the regular season, three and O against the Jets. And they did it by just putting pucks into the corners. And the Golden Knights have a massive forward group. Like their forwards are just big, strong guys.

And the Jets have a tiny defensive group for the most part. And they just outmustled them in the corners. Last night they tried to do the same thing. and the Jets just moved the puck before the Golden Knights four checkers could get to them. And they made it look super easy. The Golden Knights didn't spend any time in the offensive zone. The Jets looked really, really good. I mean, there was a lot to like from Winnipeg last night.

Not saying this series is over by a long shot, Vegas. I mean, it's kind of reminiscent of six years ago, Western Conference Final. Winnipeg beat the doors off the Golden Knights in game one. And everyone was like, well, Cinderella, her carriage has turned into a pumpkin. and it's over. And then the Golden Knights won four straight. So this series is definitely not, like I wouldn't say Winnipeg is the favor to win the series, but I was super impressed with the Jets last night. Yeah, I agree with you on everything there. I think that the, I think the Golden Knights will be fine, but I actually picked the Jets to upset them the series.

And I think one big reason is I just love the way that they played down the stretch. And I give Rick bonus a ton of credit. You know, they had that loss to San Jose. It was absolutely ugly. He called out everybody. He basically said, if they think that they're playing hard, they're absolutely or not. And they won five of six to end the season. I don't include the season finale in Colorado because they obviously, they rested everybody after beating the wild. But when they came into Minnesota, they ran the doors off the wild. They dominated the game. They got incredible goaltending for Hello Buck. Their defense more good. They played tough hockey. Their stars showed up. And they just to me look like they picked up their play at the perfect time going in. And this is not your normal. I mean, they got a lot of great players on this team, you know, from Wheeler to Ellers to Connor to Shifley, you know, their back end is so much improved. And then you got the goaltender who, to me, is the biggest concern for Vegas right now because they didn't test him in game one.

And you know that he, the way that he played down the stretch, when they do start to test them, there's a very good chance this guy is going to show up. Hellebuck has proven it before, both, you know, in the regular season and playoffs. and I think this is going to be a tough task for Vegas. I think they'll be fine. But as I said, I think Winnipeg outlast them in the series, I picked this as sort of my upset special in the brackets that we did for the athletic. So truth be told, before the show, I picked up a piece of paper and got a little bit of a paper cut.

And I said, I don't know if I'm going to be able to do the show today. Unlike Morgan Barron, who gets 75 stitches to the face and cut. comes back wearing the cage, but comes back. And I love his post game interview where it was so, yeah, guys, like, what did you expect? Of course I'm coming back. It didn't get my eye. I'm good. Took a skate to the face.

Just gruesome. When you watch that in slow motion, it makes you cringe. Terrifying. Terrifying is right near his eye when I think every single person and their families were in the crease at the exact same time during that play. Jesse, did you see it? right? Could you see him, you know, something was wrong when that happened? And how shocked are you? What did he look like? Did you see him after the game? Yeah. So I didn't see it like, I didn't see

his face hit the skate initially because I was watching Breslau, like fishing around with his gloves, trying to get the puck out of the crease. But immediately after we saw there was blood all over the ice and we were like, what the hell happened there? So we started looking at the replays. And that's when we saw the replay of it. I did see him briefly after the game. but the quote of the night was Adam Lowry was asked about it and he goes, yeah, we looked at him after and it looked like he got attacked by a shark. And 75 stitches. I didn't even know your face was big enough to get 75 stitches. Like, I'm not a doctor.

I didn't like, when I heard 75, I'm like, that can be right. That's like someone missed. That was a typo on Twitter, right? He didn't actually get 75. Yes, he did. And came back in the brick bonus after the game was saying, yeah, I, uh, during the intermission, he was still getting stitched up, like still in the process of the stitches being put in.

And the trainers said he's laying there getting stitched up, telling them, hurry up, I need to get back on the ice. Like, come on, can we get these stitches in any faster guys? Hockey players are insane. Yeah, no thank you.

I just can't even imagine it. And then to come back in the game, I can't imagine the doctor. That's like, you know, I mean, you know, that's the one where you kind of, it's going to be there forever. quick Frankenstein, you want the doctor to do a pretty good job and not be, you know, you know, half hazard about everything. And to get 75 quick stitches and go out there, I remember

we were in New York City and Zach Porezzi got, I think he was a high stick by John Moore, if I remember correctly. And it was gruesome. I mean, not 75 stitches, but, but I remember he got these stitches and it was a hatchet job. And he went back to Minnesota and got him redone and then had to get plastic surgery because it looked it was just like a the worst zipper that you've ever seen and I think that's part of it that'd be a great story jessie to get that plastic surgeon that's going to have to like redo that guy's face um I just can't imagine these guys the way that they they they play through anything I remember I was covering a morning skate once in south Florida and Oliokin and was skating around the net and George Kingston had the butt end of his stick out and his Oli's going around the net

the butt end of his stick of the assistant coach's stick went into Oli's mouth and he's sheared everything out. I mean, it was crazy. It was so gruesome that Mike Kinnan ended the morning skate. Oliokin goes to the back. We then find out that he had to have like two root canals during the day, spent nine hours in a dentist chair between the morning skate and the game played that night against the Leafs. Marty Robbins was the doctor. I still remember this. And I just, I remember right then, that was my first realization that hockey players are just a different breed, that they play through anything. It's, it's crazy. And, you know, and again, I always equate things to myself. I'm the weakest human being ever. If I have a sore calf, I'm like out for a week. So, so it's, I just, it really is amazing that you one could get 75 stitches, as Jesse said, but then to, you know, be on that table, like get it done so I can get back out on the ice and then come back out of the ice like nothing happened. It's, it's quite impressive, but I would never do it. Barron comes back out, right? And like, you can imagine, like, you've got 75 stitches in your face. You'd think, you'd think.

your first shift, you'd be like, all right, let me, let me like get out there and get my feet underneath me. I watched him. He hops over the bench and skates immediately to the puck and throws a hit. Like, the first thing he did was go throw a hit. Couldn't believe it. Yeah. I don't want to be one of those guys because we're obviously, we're hockey guys. We're hosting a hockey show, but they're built differently. And I mean, you see other sports. And I'm sure in every sport, there's a story like this, but it just happens over and over again in hockey. Look, you can't tell me he's not going to wake up this morning in a lot of pain. It's going to happen. But it kind of right. Remember the Boreasalming stick, skate along his over 200 stitches?

And they're just like, yeah, when's my next shift? It's pretty crazy. Yeah, I just, it's amazing. Like I was just, even as you're talking about, I'm like, I'm thinking of guys like Kevin Adams playing with a broken wrist in the, in the, in the 2006, Stanley and like a final and Mike Madonna. I mean, you know, it's just, it's over and over again. These guys, you know, what we're seeing right now here in Minnesota. Soto with Oliu, sorry, Olihook, and now Eul Eriks and Ack is crazy that this guy's even trying to play right now with what his injury is. And it's all pain tolerance with that guy now. And I think the wilder trying to, like, now that they're up one-oh on the series, sort of slow him down. But it is, this is just the breed of a hockey player, especially in the playoffs. Yeah, I mean, Mark Stone played last night. He's 70 days removed from his second back surgery

in nine months. Like, it's just, it's dumb. It's just, again, it makes us feel like, you know, when we're like, oh, God, I hurt my foot. And you're like, no, you're fine. One more game last night, guys. And before we get to it as the Cracken pick up an historic playoff win, their first ever over the avalanche, I should mention their general manager, Ron Francis is going to be joining us in the second half of the show. Actually, Russo and I had an opportunity to speak with him a couple days ago. So be sure to stay tuned to that.

He had a lot of great insight. Of course, being a Hall of Fame. He knows all about playoffs having won two cups himself. But yeah, Cracken 3-1 winners over the avalanche first ever playoff win in their first game. And they do it against the defending champs. Believe it or not, this is one of those stats, like you said, Jesse, where you hear it? And you're like, and you had to think about it. And you go, oh, yeah, it snapped a 10-game first-round winning streak for Colorado.

The last two years, they swept in the first round. They swept the blues. They swept the preds. And so, yeah, this is the first. time they've lost in the first round in a while. And boy, did Philip Grubauer ever look good against his former team. So since I started with a goaltending topic, we got to go to our goaltending expert. What do you think, Jesse? Yeah, Philip Grubauer, you look at the regular season stats. He's near the bottom of the NHL and goals saved above expected. He already leads

the NHL in the playoffs, though, through one game. Great stuff. I admittedly didn't get to watch a lot of this game. It was happening at the exact same time that Golden Knights were playing. But the parts I did see, I was like during intermission, I was checking in on it. Seattle looked fast. And like, it's hard to not compare because of the expansion. And like, I know this is their second season, but man, do they look like the Golden Knights did in year one where there aren't any real star players, but they've got like four lines that have second or third line guys that just fly around the ice and they pester the hell out of you. And you feel like you can't breathe because every shift, every time they send guys over the boards, they're skating fast,

they're swarming you on the forecheck, and it just looked like they overwhelmed the abs a little bit. Obviously, the abs are super talented. We expect adjustments to be made. But man, the cracking, that was a great first punch to throw to kind of set the tone for this series. We are going to come at you as fast as we can every shift. See, I was right last week. Dave Hacksdall for the Jack Adams.

This guy is unreal. Um, you know, I admittedly didn't see a lot of this game because I was watching Joe Smith, uh, do gangstas paradise at a karaoke bar here in Dallas. So I have witnessed that before. Yeah, yeah, it was, uh, man, did he put on a show? He easily top five singers here, but in terms of showmen, number one. Uh, yeah, it was, it was fun. But, uh, it was on in the background. I did watch the game. Every time I looked up, though, you could see McKinnon was trying to just make something out of nothing. He was, there was one shift. I even tweeted about it. He looked like a man possessed and obviously it didn't amount to, you know, a goal and obviously a victory. And so I think

that they're going to be fine. But good for Seattle. I think this is just so impressive what we're seeing from the crack in this year. We've talked on last week's show guys about how this team really had to, you know, build their team very differently than the Vegas Golden Knights. I think a lot of teams learn their lesson the way that George McPhee essentially fleets them there. And it made things a lot harder for Ron Francis and we'll be talking to Ron in a couple minutes, but I think Ron really held to his guns as well. He had certain crises that if he was going to, you know, make trades with you, you had to meet. And I think a lot of that had to do with first round picks and teams weren't willing to meet it. And unlike Vegas, he didn't make a single trade. But they built the team

in a different way. They have an incredible blue line. Very deep up front, you know, went out, spent some money in free agency and goaltending was my biggest concern going into the playoffs. It would still be my biggest concern. But if group, Drew Bauer is going to continue to be like that, man, is this going to be a pretty good series. I still think that Colorado is going to wake up from their little slumber there. They were so good down the stretch, guys. And I just think this is going to be a little bit of a wake-up call. And big shout out to Joe Smith, who's an educated fool with money on his mind.

Got a 10 in his hand and a glean him in his eye. All right, guys, four more games tonight. So let's go through these and a little more of a rapid fire style, because, man, we can talk about these forever. Islanders and Hurricanes, Carolina with a 2-1 win in game number one, pretty much what we expected, at least for myself, tight, low-scoring affair. Jesse's always talking about the canes, making goalies look great because they play so well defensively, look good on the PP. They were number two in that this year, in the PK, excuse me, and Antiranta got the start

in game number one and also look good. Russo, what do you expect it from game two? I expect another tight game. I was surprised. I don't know what you guys felt about anti-Ranta getting that start in game one. But, man, you know, Carolina, they're going to have to play this style, I think, without some of the guys that they are missing. You know, as Jesse and I have talked about a couple times with you, Rob, on this show, I would have loved to have seen Boston and New York Islanders go in that first round just to see the fear of God put into the Bruins with Sorokin. But man, you know, it's, I still think that a lot of us, you know, critics out there that maybe discounted Carolina because of loss of Patch Reddy and Svetchnikoff do forget that there are a lot of great players on that team.

And they have a sensational coach. Their blue line is tremendous. And I think that they're going to make this series pretty quick. Yeah, Carolina is so deep. And you mentioned the blue line. Like, they just don't give up anything. We think of Brent Burns as like the offensive guy, almost a forward playing defense back there. But just like I was looking at a lot of numbers for research for like Norris voting this week.

And I was blown away by how good Brent Burns defensive numbers are this year. Like he has really stepped it up in that category. And I thought he was brilliant in game one. The Islanders, I mean, I mentioned earlier, Sorokin's the only goalie in the top six in goal-saving. above expected to lose his first playoff game. He was very good. I just don't know if the Islanders are going to be able to give him the run support he needs to win games here.

I expect him to be good. I expect the Hurricanes to struggle to put up more than two or three goals in a game. I just don't know if the Islanders can score two or three. And not because they can't get one by Antirontas. They just can't get into the offensive zone. Like the Hurricanes are so good in the neutral zone. When they're in the offensive zone, they hold the puck forever. They just don't give you chances to score.

The best defense is a good offense. If you don't have the puck, you can't do anything with it. I just, I have a hard time finding a route for the Islanders to get back in this series because they just can't get through the neutral zone and can't hold the puck for any extended amount of time. Yeah, Barzell looked like he was working his butt off the other day to try to create offense. And that was as good as I've seen in a long time. But, you know, they've got to go north-south more. I mean, Bardsel sort of brings the game to an east-west level.

And the way that you're going to beat Carolina is to get in there and go to work. And, you know, it's just going to be tough sledding. against that team. The Bruins continued. They are winning ways 3-1 in game one against Florida. Pastor Nack and Debrusky scored. Brad Marchand scored his 50th career playoff goal on a goal that had some stink to it. Let's be honest.

That should not have gone in. No Bergeron in game one. The Bruins have some apparent bug going through their dressing rooms. So we'll have to see, you know, sometimes it's like when someone in your family gets sick and you feel fine. You're like, oh, God, am I going to get sick at two or three days? That might be the case with the Boston Bruins, but same old Bruins in this one. Jesse. They're so good that their best player, captain, whatever you want to call him, Patrice Bergeron,

is out of game one of the playoffs. And it was just like, eh, no big deal. Patrice will take tonight off. We'll just cruise to a game one victory, no threat at all from the Panthers. Without Patrice Bergeron, this team is insanely good. We can keep this one short because the Bruins are just too good. Yeah, exactly. And, you know, look, Alex Lyon played actually really, really well the other day.

He did unbelievable saves, but he gave up some real stinkers. And I got to think they'll obviously come back with them again. But, you know, it's just, I don't know, it just says so much about that team that you have, what, a $10 million goalie that you're not even willing to use right now in the playoffs. And obviously, a lot of good talent on that team. I got to think that we're going to see a much better Florida team. I think we'll see Matthew Kachuk come out there and try to make some noise and some, some, mayhem in that game. But the Bruins are, I mean, this, this team is just a machine. And I would be beyond shocked if they get bounced before the Eastern final. One more quick thing about this.

They were so good this season. And then they only added to it with getting someone like Tyler Bertuzi. To me, that was such a good acquisition. And the fact that two assists in game one, when he stole Nick Cousin's Stick, I was laughing out loud because I took it to the bench. Yeah, I've seen players do that before in the past before sticks and technology for stick making became amazing. And they snapped the stick and they give it back. He tried snapping it and couldn't break the stick. And he was like, all right, well, just keep it over here then. You want to look up a really good YouTube video. We were in Anaheim once in Minnesota. Bobby Ryan ripped the stick out of Miko Kovu's hands and scored with it.

And scored with it. Yeah. And I love when he kind of shows him like, this is your stick. actually didn't Koebu steal his stick? That's what happened And then he was like, all right, well, I'm going to pick up your stick

and use your stick then And then scores with it. Yeah, that's how it happened. Russo, you know, I'm starting with you on this one. Minnesota 3-2 winners

over Dallas in game one in double O.T. So we had our first quote-unquote marathon game of the playoff, Ryan Hartman scoring at 1am local time your thoughts on game number one

and what turned out to be just an insane goaltender. duel. Yeah, it was an insane goaltenders duel and it was just a really a fabulous hockey game. You know, if you watched that game, if you were able to stay up that late, I think you were extremely entertained. If you were a wild fan, you were probably, you know, getting sick at times during the first and second overtime and part of the third period. The wild started outstanding, were dominant five on five, the first two periods and then Dallas came and pressured and Philip Gustafin was just sensational. The penalty kill gave up two goals in nine seconds. So they

Their penalty kill was on the ice for nine seconds. They gave up two goals. But then they have to kill one late in third to get to overtime and then had to kill one in both the first and second overtime. Obviously, a scary incident there with Matt Dumbah and Joe Pavelski, and we're hoping that he's all right. I just saw the Dallas called up Riley Tufti, a local Minnesota guy, a great guy. Nick Buksted's best buddy, actually.

So we'll see if he gets into the game tonight. But I expect that Dallas will push back hard tonight and probably hunt Matt Dumba a bit. Yeah, I jokingly wrote before this series in our like predictions piece. These two teams combined for 55 overtime games during the regular season. So we can pretty much guarantee double OT in every game. And sure enough, we got it in game one. I'm sorry for your early flight tomorrow, Michael, but it looks like it's happening again tonight. I am already at the point where I feel bad for Jake Ottinger.

I know he's only been in the NHL a couple years, but I'm getting pretty sick and tired of watching the Dallas stars waste brilliant performances by this guy in net. Last year, that series they lost to Calgary, I don't know if there's ever, like maybe Dominic Hachick when he was on Bad Sabers teams. Like, I don't know if I've ever seen a better goalie performance in a loss, in a playoff loss, then Ottinger to Calgary last year. And now we're only one game into this playoffs, and he's already got the best performance in a loss by any goal in the league.

He was brilliant. Obviously, Gustafsson was brilliant on the other end. just really good close hockey. And these two teams, just the way they play, it feels like these games, even if they don't go to overtime, they're obviously not all going to. Well, maybe. It just feels like these games are going to come down to the wire with good goaltending, tight checking games. It's fun to watch. Honestly, I had such a good time watching that game. I know Michael was probably not as entertained working it, but it was great. Jesse, just real quick, you mentioned goaltending. What do you think of Philip Gustafin? I mean, this is not any fluke anymore.

51 saves. I think fifth goalie in NHL history to get 51 saves and it's in the Stanley Cup playoff debut. You know, somebody that this is again, not a fluke from November 19th on. He is 100th of a percentage point in goals against average and basically, I think the same and save percentage behind Linus Olmark. I mean, he, you know, he's not going to get a ton of Vezna votes, but he put Vesna numbers up this year and gets to start over Flower. Yeah, he was really good. stands out to me about his game is how compact he is. Like, you hear goalie coaches a lot of the times say, like, you're getting too loose. Your elbows aren't tight. Like, if you're going to score on Gustafson, you've got to go around him. Like, you're not going to get a puck through

him. His positioning is so good. He's so compact. And like, it's easy to be compact when you're in position. But when you've got to make that slide across the crease and it's a one-timer, like he doesn't open himself up and expose himself. He's just so controlled. He's like just very technically sound young goalie. He's a lot of fun to watch. And I agree with you. I don't think, I think at this point we can say it's not a fluke. Just a stat to back up Jesse's point on Ottinger. Last two playoff games, he's made 109 saves and they're 0 and 2. A hundred and nine saves and they are 0 and 2. Little help, guys. Little help. And finally, man, this this Edmonton Euler team. They just love giving people like us stuff to talk about. They were cruising in the

first period. They looked like the Edmonton-Oiler team. A lot of people like myself had picked to make a deep run and possibly win the Stanley Cup. Up to nothing, like I said, cruising. And the Kings just would not go away. End up tying the game with 16 seconds left, winning in overtime. I think Edmonton was shocked. I think their fans are shocked. Drysidal afterwards said, we need to be, quote, more mature. And when he was asked to elaborate, he said, we've got a two-go-lead with eight minutes left. We have to lock that down. How concerning is a blown lead like this for a team that a lot of people have picked to go really, really far. Russo.

I think the L.A. Kings are like the most forgotten about team in this postseason. I mean, they were really, really good this year and really, really good down the stretch. And they did a lot of this without Kevin Fiala, who was brilliant in the first three-quarters of the year for them. But, you know, I really still think that we're going to see the best of Connor McDavid and Leon Dreisel Idol now. I mean, those two guys have the ability to take that team and put it on its back. You know, again, I go back to the NHL Media Tour that I worked back in September. And, you know, there was no more motivated player there to, to reach the status of Nathan McKinnon than Connor McDavid. I mean, he talked on and on and on and on about that

being, that series and watching McKinnon and Landisog and Rantin and McCarr and all those guys. One beat them and then go win a Stanley Cup would be a motivating factor this year and something that he wants to ascend to. And I think they will. But to Leon's point, they've got to be better. And, you know, the big problem up in those Canadian markets, especially, you know, what went on with Toronto and Edmonton is that now you got the outside noise coming in. And, you know, that's the type of stuff that you're going to have to worry about is sort of the ghosts of this right now. And they're going to have to really tone that out and just really focus on. on getting a split here before moving the series. Yeah, it's interesting. Like, there's two ways to look at it. Edmonton was the better team. Like, no question.

They were the better team in that game. So it's like, do you feel good that, well, we're the better team. Like, eventually that will shine through. Or do you say, wow, we played a great game and still didn't beat them? And if you're the Kings, you say, that was not our best game. We can play much better than that. And we still got to win on the road. they held Connor McDavid to about as quiet of a game as you'll ever see from him.

And I said going into this series, I think L.A. is, I was like kind of breaking down all these specific teams obviously covering Vegas. And I said, I'm like, I think Vegas might be better than L.A. But L.A. for sure is a better matchup to the Oilers because the Oilers have got this two-headed monster. Is there a team in the league with a better one-two punch at center to shut someone down than Anzee Kopitar and Philip Dino? I mean, these guys are as good defense. as you can possibly ask for. And sure enough, Drysidal had some moments where he looked really good. But for the most part, at five on five, those Kings top two lines were able to neutralize

Edmonton's top two lines. And if they can do that, they don't even have to win the matchup, just kind of be close in the matchup. And the King's bottom six is stronger. So the King's depth will take over. I think there's a lot to like from the Kings. And even though they were outplayed for the majority of that game, it's funny. I was talking to some Vegas players in the room because, like, they didn't play on the first night of the playoffs.

I was like, did you stay up and watch the games? And a couple of the guys were like, yeah, I was watching the Edmonton game. And then they were up 3-1 and they were dominating so much in the second period that I was like, I'm going to switch over to Minnesota, like Dallas. Like, this game's over. And then you look back and it's like, well, wait a minute, they lost. What the hell happened? Very, if you're Edmonton, I can see concern in that.

As long as L.A. can stay out of the box. Right. This team's power players, we know, great. power play percentage in the history of the game. They have a shot at this. And I really saw that in game one where, like you said, they've got players on their team like a Kopitar who know that if you stick around and you keep yourself within striking distance,

you have an opportunity to pull one out. And they did. Iiafalo was the hero in that one after a disallowed goal by the Oilers. I think game two is going to say a lot. It's going to be really, really interesting. And I'd like to see Edmonton make a bit of a very important. a statement. Like even if they're, I'd like to see them pile on to kind of get that, that confidence back, but we'll see. Uh, what we will see and here is, uh, Ron Francis, the general manager of the

Seattle Cracken. Russo and I had an opportunity to talk to him a couple days ago. We're going to play that tape in the second half. And I'll tell you why Jesse wasn't there. He's lazy. So don't go anywhere. Okay. So like last year at this point, the Seattle Cracken, we're wrapping up their debut season, 27 wins, 60 points, just like you and I getting ready to watch the playoffs on TV. This year, not so much. And that's what a 40-point improvement will do. 100 points, ticket to the dance and the man who put the team together, joining us on the show.

Seattle GM, Ron Francis, thanks so much for doing this, Ron. My pleasure, I'm happy to be here. What a difference a year makes. Do you remember what you were doing last year at this point versus what Ron Francis is doing this year, you know, as the playoffs are kicking off? The disappointing exit meetings at this point last. year, but no, it's been, it's certainly been a lot more fun, you know, this year. And it's, you know, it's great to see the guys smiling and laughing and, you know, on the buses and on the

planes and I practice. So, you know, happy for them and happy for our coaching staff and our fans in the city to have this opportunity to compete in the playoffs. It's great. Ron, have you even exceeded your expectations? You know, last year, a couple of years here, you're putting together this team. And it felt like you had a lot more challenges than, then obviously Vegas, maybe because of some of the precedents of all the trades that they were able to make. And you went a different route in building this team. Did you ever envision that year two that you would be sitting in this spot? No, yeah, I think I thought I saw year one going maybe a little bit better,

or did and probably year two not going as well as it did. You know, I said to some people last year, Mike, I mean, you know, it sounded probably like an excuse at the time. But we had 19 one goal game losses last year. We had seven more than were one goal games that became two with empty net goals. So basically 26, one goal of games and 52 points. You know, it just seemed for whatever reason we couldn't get the goal when we needed it. We couldn't get the save when we needed it. But I felt we were a better team than maybe our record indicated last year.

Certainly going into the second season and all the changes we had made leading up to it, getting some guys back healthy. We had hoped to certainly be better than where we were. But, you know, did I see a 40-point increase coming? I'd be lying if I said I did. You know, Ron, your team just baffles me in such a a good way in that, you know, you're the fourth high-scoring team in the NHL this season, and yet you don't have a player in the top 50 in scoring, which, you know, 13 different

double-digit goal scorers, it kind of makes you shake your head as to how you could do it, but just how important was how deep your team was. And it just the chemistry and everyone knowing they had to pull their weight, and there wasn't that top line or that's that superstar scorer to kind of bail you at when you're in trouble. Yeah, no, I mean, we don't have a player in our team making six minutes. million dollars, which is probably not the norm in the NHL. You know, we don't have that so-called bona fide superstar at this point.

I think certainly Maddie Baneers has a potential to get to that level. But, you know, we're deep and the guys just kind of bought in, right? They work hard for each other. They're willing to accept and do whatever it takes to be successful. They don't really care who gets the success or the goal kind of thing. And we've had contributions up and down the lineup. You know, anytime you get 13 guys, with 10 goals and multiple guy with 30 plus points.

I mean, you know, you have a chance to be successful. And I think that's sort of carried over to the success of our season this year. Hears just contributions up and down the lineup. We obviously know Dave Haxd all well in the here in the Midwest from his days with the exceptionally good UND program. What attracted you to him and what about his coaching style has really assisted this team to get to the point that it is right now in the playoffs. Yeah, so Dave and I first got to know what you had a little bit in 2019

World Championships over in Slovakia. And we actually did a pre-scout together where we drove from Ospre-Hop to Czechoslacia to watch a game and, you know, spend some time in the car, just sort of talking hockey and sort of watched how he handled himself over the course of that tournament. It wasn't easy for him. He wasn't the guy on the bench. He was the eye in the sky. but just really a true professional, hardworking guy.

And you look at his resume, what he did in North Dakota. And, you know, I know, Philly took a lot of heat, but like three to four years, he made the playoffs. And then Toronto, he's working under Babcock and in a pretty good organization there. So, you know, just when we're looking for the piece, I thought he was the guy. He's very organized, very detailed. And I felt our situation was going to be a little bit different than Vegas.

And, you know, you draft your expansion team. And basically, like, you know, two months later, you're starting. So we have to move all those players, all their families, their cars, their dogs, you name it, into Seattle in a short period of time. And Dave has to get to know all our players and try and understand, you know, what they're all about and then teach a system. You know, I think nobody saw COVID coming. We had to deal with that, which is kind of unique. And that sort of affected us last year. We had to shut down all our team galleries and kind of get to know each other a little bit better. But I thought, you know, from start to finish as tough as that

season was, he and his staff were true professionals. They never changed who they were, what they were trying to accomplish and still tried to get the guys to buy in and compete. And I thought our team did that right to the end, even though our record, you know, wasn't as well as we had hoped it would be. Ron, does he get enough credit? I mean, we had a debate on our show last week about Jack Adams and who we thought should have won. And Mike, it might have been you who brought up Haxthol. And all of us kind of went like, oh, yeah, like look at what this team has done. look at this improvement.

And maybe it's because, you know, it's not necessarily the team that has the Connor McDavid or bona fide superstar, but what he's done with your team certainly warrants at least consideration for that Jack Adams, doesn't it? I would certainly think so, and maybe even more so because we don't have

those kind of bona fide superstars in our lineup, right? To get the whole team to buy in and do that and do it over the course of 82 games, you know, I think people thought maybe we'd be better than we were last year, but I don't think there's many people. And as I said, myself included, that saw us putting up a 40-point increase. So, you know, Dave and his staff certainly got to get a lot of that credit as well.

Ron, you all are known for your, you know, your expertise with analytics and all the advanced stats and things like that. I know you hired Alex right out of the gate. I know her well from her days here in Minnesota. And it feels like she's made quite an impact on your team as well as your rest of your. your front office. How much does that influence a lot of your decision makings on a team that was just, you know, here three weeks ago in Minnesota that, that to me looked like one of the deepest teams that we've seen in the National Hockey League, both upfront and on the blue line? Yeah, actually, it might have been that Alex hired me, Mike. She was, she was here before me,

and they, she was helping them recruit in the GM process with no guarantees that she would be given a job after. But, you know, once I was hired, we sat down, had conversations. And it became pretty prepared very quickly to me that she was worth trying to convince the sign on and I'm happy that I didn't scare away. But she's been great. You know, I think for me, it's kind of a cooperative effort, right? We have pro scales, we have amateur scouts, we have an R&D staff, we have, you know, a management team, we have a coaching staff.

And, you know, I like to sort of working in a cooperative way where everybody has a say and an opinion. And, you know, at the end of the day, we've got to make the final. call, but certainly Alex, with her knowledge, not the R&D, but the game has been very valuable to our process and our success to this point. Ron, you mentioned Matt have been ears. I don't think anyone would really argue with him being the frontrunner by a long shot for the Calder Trophy.

I saw an interesting stat, though. He never once this year won the Rookie of the Month award, which is interesting because I don't know anyone who's going to vote against him, but does that just maybe shine a light on his consistency. He'd never had any of those peaks and valleys. He just was good from game one on. Yeah, no, you know, you go back to last year. We brought him in for the 10 games. I'd be lying if I said, I thought those 10 games are going to go as well as they did. And then as a GM, you're constantly worrying, right? So now he's going to go home. He's had the success. Is he really going to train as hard as he needs to train? But this kid is a true pro. He comes in and training camping from day one,

you know, he's an engine for our team. He doesn't take a day off, whether it's practice or a game. he competes hard every night. You know, you're worried this is his first time going through 82 games and the, you know, the travel, especially on the West Coast being a little harder. He's going to have that dip. He's going to get tired. You know, there might have been small little signs of that, but overall he's maintained it for the course of 82 games.

Interesting that he wasn't a rookie the month ever during the season. But I have to agree. I think he's a strong candidate to win that at the end of the season. Another young stuff that you guys have is Shane Wright. remember back in November, I did a story when Seattle was in town talking to both Shane and Maddie Baneers right before you sent him back to Jr. Dave Haxstall as well. Talk about the path that you've created for his development path. And I always got a kick out of people from the outside that aren't in your organization

criticizing the way that you guys were, you know, that development path when, you know, I thought it was always hilarious that people just felt like that, you know, maybe we're. Ron Francis and Dave Haxdall didn't know what was best for this kid. Well, it's a good thing. I don't read those articles. I wasn't too worried about them. No, I mean, you read the same thing with Maddie. You look at the player and you say,

is it best for him to step out or step back in? We let him go back to Michigan last year, the track for a national title. When it didn't happen, at that point, we felt strongly that it was a right time to bring him out and get him in the 10 games. And, you know, he's certainly taking it and kind of run from there. In Shane's case, there's no really easy way, right?

In a perfect world, you could put them in the American Hockey League, if we were allowed to, but we weren't. So our choice is junior hockey or the NHL. And, you know, at the end of the day, you got five exhibition games at the NHL level. He got eight games during the regular season. So 13 pro games there. You got to go play in the top junior tournament of the world,

be captain for Team Canada to win a gold medal there. And you got back to playing the junior. And now that their season's done, he's back in Coachella playing in the American Hockey League. So it's a process. Everybody takes sort of a different path. But at the end of the day, what we have in mind for Shane is what we think

is best for him and best for the organization long term. We've had numerous conversations, all points during the season with Shane and his agent and his family, making sure that they understand why we're doing certain things. And so everybody on the inside and on the know is very comfortable with the process we've taken. And, you know, we're comfortable with what we've done with them to this point. Has there been discussions at GM meetings or just with the league about maybe altering that rule in some way, shape, or form?

Well, I think every GM would love to have it happen. I think it's probably one of those things that you have to collectively negotiate, you know, as a league and with the junior league. So I understand their point, too, it's not an easy resolution, but, you know, selfishly, yeah, we would certainly like that. Ron, we always talk about the old Hartford Whalers connection. I mean, it's just amazing number of scouts, coaches, GMs that played for those teams. back in the day, what is in the water there? Why are there so many people that have, you know, excelled in a next career in the National Hockey League? Yeah, it's a hard to really put one thing on it. For me, it was we kind of, a lot of us grew up at the same time, right? Where young guys coming

through the league and kind of getting to understand it, you know, if you remember back in the day, we played in the mall, which on one front, you know, was great for us because, you know, post practice we could get together and have lunch or, you know, post game a lot of times we went through was a place called Chuck Steakhouse. We'd get a backroom. So all the guys and their wives or girlfriends would be in there and having a bite to eat a couple beers and talking hockey, right? So we always seem to sort of have those discussions and talk a lot about the game, had a lot of passion for the game. And I'm not surprised that, you know, a lot of us have continued into the game just because of how much we loved it and, you know, sort of grew up talking about it through

that, those early stages of our careers. Speaking of talking about the game, one topic that seems to come up with guys like us, and then also superstars in the league like Sidney Crosby is the playoff format. Some people love the divisional playoffs. Some people want to go back to a one versus eight. I don't know if you'll tell us exactly which side you're on, but your thoughts on just the playoff format because it seems as though they're pros and cons for each one. Yeah, I know, at the end of the day, I think, you know, Commissioner Bettman and, you know,

TV are kind of, they're going to make the decision, I think, is best for the game. It was kind of, you know, if you're on the outside, you're always saying, hey, we should have 9 and 10. And, you know, there's probably not a lot of difference between 9 and 10 and, you know, 6, 7, 8, especially in today's game with the parity. Here we are, you know, everybody's done, except for two hockey games and we still don't know who we're playing in Minnesota, doesn't know who they're playing. So, you know, it's kind of a crazy setup.

I think there's so much parity. From a selfish standpoint, you know, we had, I think 16, teams in the playoffs at 21 teams in the league. And now we're at 32 and we're still at 16. So you always hope that maybe you expand that. And when I first heard about the one in baseball, I thought, okay, this is kind of crazy. I don't like it.

But now it's kind of been really interesting and watching that. And, you know, the NBA has gone to it. So is that something we go to down the road? You know, I guess you have to ask the commissioner on that one. And we'll see what he has to say about that. Ron, you mentioned Minnesota. I got to ask you about wild coach Dean Eveson, who you know well from your whaler's day.

days as well. You know, he always talks about how, you know, he was a junior star in the Western Hockey League, but he gets to, all of a sudden he gets to Hartford Binghamton, and he sees Ron Francis and Ray Ferraro and he realizes right away, I better turn my game to a different type of style. How impressed were you that this guy that came out of juniors as a score was able to sort of transition himself into a, you know, gritty, hardworking, defensive checking center? Yeah, you know, there's a lot of guys that aren't able to make that decision. right. They are asked to play in a third line role or a fourth line role. And in their mind, they're still a top six guy or an offensive guy or a power play guy. And they struggle with it.

You know, Dean, I don't know if he went strictly to defensive role, but he, you know, he understood kind of where he was. And, you know, the thing I love about Dean was, and he was just so competitive, right? And you see it now and his emotions on the bench and stuff. He's just a really competitive guy. He hates to lose. And those are the kind of guys you want to play alongside on your team. And it was certainly a thrill for me to play a few years with him in the Wales jersey for sure. Ron, just a last question for you. I did want to ask you just one other thing. You know, year three of an organization here in Minnesota and Florida, the two teams that I've covered, they went to the one went to the Stanley Cup final, one to went to the Western Conference

final, and they had to sort of change their plan because of their early success. Do you see year two, you go into the playoffs that all of a sudden it, of one changes expectations, but two, now the development path of the organization? Yeah, I know discussions with our ownership, they've been pretty adamant as to how we want to build this in our discussions. Development is really a key part of our building this organization. So when we get to the level we think we want to be at, we're able to maintain and sustain it over multiple years. So that's still going to be a key factor in it. I'd be lying though.

I mean, we're certainly in a different position than we were at the end of the last season. So if there are, you know, trades or free agents, moves that we can make over the course of the summer to make this organization better, we're not going to hesitate to do that at all. Ron, we're going to let you go. Luckily not to go do any exit interviews like last year. This year, it's a little bit different. Congratulations on a great season.

We appreciate it. Good luck in the playoffs. Thank you, guys. Very much. Appreciate it. All right. So I promised in segment one that I would tell you why Jesse wasn't there. Just a peek behind the curtain on how shows like this work, guys.

during the regular season, our producer Jeff, more times than not try to get us guests on the day that we record things. And they're usually very accommodating. But during the playoffs, you know, it doesn't always break down that way. Basically, if somebody calls our producer and says, hey, he can come on now or tomorrow or whenever we accommodate around their schedules. So our producer, Jeff had said, hey, guys, do you have a few minutes today to interview Ron Francis. I said yes in our text message. Russo said yes and Jesse said yes. Now we do these on Zoom

and Russo's on the line. I'm on the line and Ron Francis is on the line. Let me tell you something about Jesse Granger guys. He's never late. He's always on time. And we're just killing time and killing time. And I can tell Ron Francis looking at his watch. And we text Jesse and Jesse went, oh shit, you mean today? It wasn't even close to being there. So he said, okay, and I'll remember. of Russo and I'm sure you can back me up on this one. Ron Francis just said, all right, well, screw. We're moving on without Jesse. He's like, Jesse's out.

Jesse's out. I do want to mention too, just in case people were wondering why we didn't ask him specifically about Colorado. We did this before that night they found out they would be facing the Colorado avalanche. So like I said, when a general manager in a Hall of Famer says, I can do the interview right now, we do the interview. but yeah, Jesse, next time, take a check on your text message to see what time and date that the interviews are.

I just assumed it was on the normal Wednesday morning. There's a lot going on right now. Booking flights to Winnipeg, not easy. Let me tell you, book and flights to Winnipeg, not easy. It's like I feel like I'm Nicholas Cage in National Treasure trying to get to Winnipeg for this series. There's a lot that comes with this job. Showing up on time is one of them. I love breaking your balls about this.

Because you're never late and you're like one of the most professional guys that know. So the fact that Ron Francis is like, to hell with Jesse, move on. We're doing the interview. I thought was hilarious. Rapid Fire coming up after the break. All right, boys, my favorite time of the show and yours, Rapid Fire. A lot of this has to do not with the playoffs. And this is why we shoved it into Rapid Fire because it's playoff time.

Penguins, Clean House. They relieve President of Hockey Operations Brian Burke, GM, John Hextall, and assistant GM, Chris Pryor of their duty. I think missing the playoffs was the straw that broke the camel's back, obviously, but there are a lot of things you can point to as far as reasons go for this sort of house cleaning. Your thoughts on what the penguins did, Jesse. Yeah, it's super interesting to me what the people coming in will do, because I think when you're the guys already in house,

there's so much reason to try to extend that window and say, no, no, no, we can still win with this score. I think coming in as someone new, it's much easier to say, let's try to rebuild or retool and like really change some things up. I'm not saying that that's the direction they have to go. I just think it's more likely to happen than it would have been with the guys in-house. So I'm super fascinated to see what the penguins do, who they bring in, and what they, what direction they decide to go with this roster. Yeah. The only thing I'll say at the risk of pissing off our colleagues who have

I've been all over the end of the Ron Hextel regime for about a month and a half, is two years just seems so little for a GM to implement a plan, especially when that plan is like, you know, keep the core, but rebuild. You know, it's just, you know, it's just hard to do. And obviously, Ron Hextel made a lot of perplexing, you know, decisions there. You know, and it felt like that a lot of the mistakes that he made in Philly, did again, where he sort of shut out everybody else, and it was just him and Chris Pryor making all these decisions, and also not really giving the media time of day. And I just never understand that.

Like, if you, you know, not that we could be quote unquote bought, but if you, if you have no relationship at all with the media and don't try to cultivate that, they have no reason to pull punches because they got nothing to lose. And that's what felt like it went on there. And this is all the stuff that Ron Fextol, when he was up with the job in Minnesota, you know, essentially told me that he learned a lot of lessons that was going to help him in his next job and it clearly didn't and to last, you know,

essentially, what, 26 months in a job as a GM, that's not a lot at all. It's almost Paul Fentnisk. Well, a GM that did have a long time to try to build a winner was Brad for Living. We talked about this last week, guys, with the flames

missing the playoffs. They announced that they have parted ways. Of course, this was the last year of his contracts are basically just not renewing it. Don Maloney is going to be promoted to president of hockey operations and is going to serve as interim GM. Flames went through five different coaches during Trillivings tenure there. But, you know, a lot of people were pumping his tires. I was one of them when Johnny Grudrow and Matthew Kachukleaf, I thought their team borderline improved. I don't know if it's his fault necessarily that the Hubertoe experiment just kind of fell flat on

their face, but we'll start with you on this one, Russ. So Calgary, new GM on the way. Yeah, I mean, this is what I talked about in the last couple shows is that I was starting to hear that tree living was leaving and it was going to be under his own volition. I think that when he turned down that contract extension, I think that said everything that he was sort of looking for an exit plan. I think it screams to the fact that the owner probably is the one that won a Daryl Sutter there. I think it screams to the fact that the owner is the one that made sure that Sutter got an extension there. And I just think the tree living was looking to get the heck. out of there. And now we'll see

where they go from here. It's going to be just really fascinating. You know, when you watch Matthew Kachuk, who put up a heart trophy type season down in Florida succeeding elsewhere, and you give Huberto the big deal before even, you know, that was the other perplexing thing. Like, I get

taken the long-term contract and the money, but when that's, that, that to me is an alarm. When a guy gets traded to a place like Calgary, knows really nothing about the city, the organization, the arena, nothing. And just, before he really puts boots on the ground, signs a mass long, long, long time extension.

You know, before you even see how it's going to work, I just think that there was a lot of pressure there to get that done, and now they've got a big-time problem on their hands. Yeah, big-time problem, but a super talented team. I mean, you don't see GM's spots open with this much talent on the roster, so you have to imagine that while there are some obstacles to clear and some big contracts, like you have to get Huberto going. Like if Huberto isn't a great player for this team, it is a major problem.

But I think there's plenty of GMs out there to say, you know what, I can get that guy playing the type of hockey he played in Florida. And there's tons of talent on that team. They just won the division last year. Yes, they lost some key pieces, but they also brought in some good guys. They got to get Jacob Markstrom going because that was a huge issue. They outplayed teams. more often than not this season and just got in net. And I believe

Markstrom's a good goalie. You've got to get the best out of him. But I think this is an attractive spot for a GM to land. Depending on, like Mike mentioned the owner's situation, like I don't know the ins and out to that. And that's obviously a huge factor for a general manager. But in terms of just the roster, have to imagine

that this is a pretty attractive spot to land. Yeah, much less of a, I don't want to say mess, but question mark than say Pittsburgh. Yeah. Right. Yeah, 100%. And as Jesse said, as if any GM a coach will magically look a lot better if Marks him steps starts, you know,

stopping the park. And finally, guys, two coaches clearing out their desks. Brad Larson and Columbus was relieved of his duties, Dallas Aiken's and Anaheim, just not renewing his contract. Your thoughts on these two? Did any one of these surprise you at all? Jesse. No, but it's also at the same time,

it's like, well, what did you expect them to do with these teams? Like, teams are awful. The coach didn't have much. I mean, I guess in Anaheim, the expectations were a little higher. They had some young guys that were, they seemed to be trending in the right direction. I think maybe some people thought they're going to take another step this year and they didn't. They definitely took a step back. I can remember when Eakins was in their HL affiliate and everyone loved this guy and thought he was like the answer.

So to me, to give, to say he's not. not the guy after what two seasons in the nchel i think maybe a little early especially on a team that's clearly not ready to compete um from a roster makeup standpoint um but at the same time i think we all kind of saw this coming like the teams weren't winning they were the two worst teams in the nchel so i guess you can't be surprised when the coaches get fired yeah anaheim is one of the more disappointing teams in the league i mean they tried to make some significant moves there and they have a bunch of young kids that just don't seem to be developing that seem to be the love living the life in Southern California, and they've got to figure that out right away. Columbus is one.

They've got to get going. That market is packs the place. They're so passionate. They want to do well. They want to, they want to see a winner there. And it's just years and years and years of ineptitude. And they've got to figure this out already. Maybe Connor Bedard will be the answer. Who knows? But it is just, it's amazing to me. You know, how I was saying this to one of my colleagues the other day. Like, could you imagine being Aaron Portsline every single year? having to write these death marches down the stretch. It's like in Minnesota, in my 18 years covering, we've never had a T and it's been out of it in, you know, March, let alone freaking December every year.

And it's just, it's got to change. The fans deserve better there. They built an incredible arena, an incredible arena district. Everything is perfect except what's on the ice every single year, except for the one year that they shocked at Tampa that essentially led to nothing. And they got to figure it out. It's funny. And I'm just thinking of this now.

There's not anything I prepared for. But I feel like every time a generational talent is coming in the next year, the coach that was on the tanking team gets fired. It's like they used them to get. Mario. Didn't it happen? When did Olcett get fired for when Crosby came in? After his first year.

I feel like these coaches like, let's pretend Anaheim, who has the best chance now Bidar gets Badaard. And your Aiken's going, well, yeah. Like if you now, now I don't get, you know, to reap the, benefit of what we did in all that losing. Mission accomplished. I got us the number one pick. Come on. And then you replaced me. Yeah. Anyways, this is the time of the show, boys. I always ask what you're working on. I think it's kind of a stupid question. If you're doing something weird, raise your hand. Jesse usually are, but I'm assuming it's all playoffs all the time. Am I right?

Yeah, no, nothing, nothing weird with goalies or equipment at the moment. It's all, it's all Golden Knights playoffs stuff. Yeah. Ditto. Ditto. Well, there you go, guys. Just follow them. for all your playoffs stuff. And of course, I want to let you know that you can see us if you want to see us do this show

on YouTube.com at the Athletic Show and all our big interviews go on there. And of course, everyone's are on there as well. So you can go and check that out if you are a YouTuber

and of course, subscribe to the Athletic if you want to hear us each and every week. The Athleticococke show returns Thursday with Ian Mendez and down goes Brown. Big thanks once again

to Ron Francis for telling Jesse to hell with him. Let's move on. For Russo and Jesse, I'm Pizzo. We'll see you next week.